S5 BONUS: The Cryptid Lore Behind Cryptid Cape

Cryptid Cape has a whole lot of cryptids - who would've thought? Join Vicky and her certified cryptid fan father, Tony Pereira, for a chat about all things cryptid, including some of the mythologies that inspired characters in the show, where our love of cryptids originated from, and more!


Created and Produced by Victoria Pereira


Featuring Victoria Pereira and Tony Pereira


Theme Song: "Pink Night in Ohio" by Ryan Andersen

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Hi, listeners, quick little PSAfor you guys before you start this episode.
My lovely father is our guest todayto talk about some cryptid lore and
stuff like that. And he isnew to the world of recording and may
have been tapping on the desk throughoutsaid recording, and I did not notice

(00:20):
until the end of the recording,so you may hear some little tip tips
throughout the episode. I tried tocut out as money as I could.
Hopefully you guys don't mind. It'sa really fun conversation that I have with
my father, and I think it'sstill worth a listen, so enjoy.
And he also says he apologizes,so enjoyed this episode. Hello listeners,

(00:47):
and welcome back to a Cryptic kBous episode. My name's Victoria, but
you can call me Vicky, butyou might know me as Oprah and the
creator of the show, and Iam here today with I have very special
guest, the voice of the Mayor, but also my father, Tony Pereira.

(01:07):
Hi, VICKI, Hi everyone.We wanted to bring you guys a
little bonus episode, giving you guysa little bit of bonus content between our
final season. So our show iscalled Cryptid Cape and evidently would wouldn't you
know, there's a bunch of cryptidsin it, And as far as cryptid

(01:29):
experts go, I don't know alot of them, and I don't know
if you would call yourself a cryptidexpert, but I would say my father
is well versed in his cryptids,and I thought it would be super fun
to have him on and talk aboutKrypti's talk about how I got the idea
for the show from a lot ofthe stuff that you know, I was

(01:49):
raised on, and talk about themiss behind some of our favorite characters from
the show. It sounds like fun. Yeah, So first off, tell
me, father, how did youget into cryptid? What are you?
What are your opinions on cryptids?You know when you first asked me that,
I actually had to stop and thinkabout it. I've been into cryptids

(02:12):
before they were called cryptids. Sowhen I when I was a kid,
probably in the in the early tomid seventies, there were many TV shows,
some for kids and some were nightlyshows that dealt with different subjects.
Back then, they weren't called cryptids. But every once in a while they

(02:32):
would introduce a bigfoot into an episodeof some series I enjoyed, like some
one called The six Million Dollar Man. Oh yeah, yeah, somehow they
I forgive what the plot was,but Bigfoot got into one of those episodes.
It was great. I guess whatI'm saying is when I was,
when I was younger, I reallygot interested in the the improbable, I

(03:00):
guess, and I don't know.I guess the Shrink would have a field
date with me on why that was. But the more I thought about your
question setting up for this today,I imagine it was because maybe growing up
in a city, there was alot of grit and reality around me,
and Cryptids was just an opportunity tomaybe get away from that for a while

(03:23):
and again look at the improbable andmaybe the impossible. But it was a
fun way to escape. And therewas never a shortage of anthology series that
dealt with some of these things,like Something Cold in Search of hosted by
none other than mister Spock. Yeah. Yes, it was a series of

(03:46):
half hour shows that dealt into mysteriesthat bring me to Triangle and the Locked
Ands Monster, etc. And Ijust I just ate that stuff up.
I was, I was, Iwas their model consumer for that content.
If you want to call it that. Yeah, and then from one crypto
to another. Right, I justcouldn't get enough of them, So I

(04:09):
went from Bigfoot to Lockness to theJersey Devil and so on so forth.
When cable comes around and you havemore choices for viewing different content and materials,
and they start segregating into the HistoryChannel and Destination America, etc.
And they start programming specifically targeting thesekind of subjects. Yeah, yeah,

(04:35):
I feel like it all kind ofstarted with like the I think I feel
like it was like the og GhostHunters that kicked off that whole era of
like weird like paranormal reality content.You might be right. Remember your brother
Kevin was so into those Ghost Hunters. Remember it was little I used to

(04:55):
watch them too. Yeah, itwas fascinating stuff, some of those episodes.
Yeah, I had a heart timewith the spooky stuff. But sure
they were they were good. ButI'm pretty sure that was like, maybe
not the first one, but Ifeel like all the stuff like that definitely
spawned all the ghost shows. ButI can't remember any like finding Bigfoot kind
of style stuff for like, youknow, documentaries about the Yetti or whatever.

(05:18):
Before that, Really there were butthey were probably not as many and
almost in the background of more populargenres. Yeah, but I just thought
of something to remember. The oldcartoon series Scooby Doo dealt with a lot
of this stuff. Yeah, rightfrom right from my youth. I mean

(05:41):
I was targeted for the stuff andI just fell hook line and sinker exactly
for it. So yeah, andthen maybe related to it. I was
a big horror fan growing up.Oh yeah, I couldn't get enough of
it. And that started with aboiler your grandmother to me, sit down
when I I'll never forget. I'mwatching The Day of the Triffids, which

(06:04):
was an English movie about these theseplants that had come as spores to the
to the Earth from outer space andthey grew to six eight foot tell and
they could walk, they could creep, and they could chase you. And
you know, I remember watching itwith the cover brought up, you know,

(06:27):
to to my nose, right rightabove my nose, just so I
could see just enough so I couldsee, and watched the TV and I
was hooked. That was it.From then on, any kind of scary
frank and sign a whirlwoof movie whatever, I was there for it. Yeah,
I remember growing up, you youwatched a lot of like scary movies
and stuff like that. I veryparticularly remember one instance where I was working
on something on the desktop computer andyou were sitting on the couch watching jeeper

(06:51):
screepers, and I was like,out of the corner of my eye,
I keep looking and I'm like,what is happening to the children, And
I was like, I can't dothis, I have to go. But
yeah, I feel like I gotinto the ghost stuff more so than the
cryptic stuff first. And like Inever really watched any of the like the

(07:14):
Bigfoot shows and stuff when those startedcoming on, But I think, like,
I don't know, there was youknow what it was, Remember those
weird New Jersey books. Yes,sure, yeah, I feel like that
kind of stuff like that, Andlike I like to read about the ghosts
of like in Kate and May andthings like that. And then like you,

(07:34):
you slowly bridge the gap over intolike, ah, yes, the
Jersey Devils, Champy at least Tramplain. Yes, yes, all that stuff.
It's campy, it's it's fun.It's just again it's a departure from
the every day, you know,day in, day out kind of stuff.
It's it's entertainment, it's entertaining.And then I think, as a

(07:59):
kid, you know, you're you'reI'm naive and innocent, and I'm lapping
this stuff up and I don't.I don't think I I believed it.
It was more like I would tunein to see if they finally had that
definitive piece of film, or ifthey captured one, or you know,
uh, maybe unfortunately a corpse ofone, you know, found in the

(08:20):
wild. I think that's why Ikept coming back, right, That's that's
why you keep tuning into these seriessometimes just to get that that closure.
Yeah, but obviously that's never happened. So now I think I watch more
just just out of can't be fun. Yeah, you know we've always joked

(08:41):
me and you about another fuzzy videoafe. Oh, yes, just what
they always show on these these programs. Yes, although a couple of them
have have made me go, hmm, what is that? You know?
Yeah, just fun stuff, funstuff. Yeah, yeah, it's funny.
I feel like I like I'm inthe same way where I'm like,
yeah, like all this stuff iskind of like it's just fun and it's

(09:03):
campy and everything, but like there'sthose certain things, especially with ghosts.
More so, I think there's likethose couple videos. I think a lot
of things are like people exaggerate,but there's a couple out there where I'm
like, I don't know how youexplain that, and it's like that that
sort of thing, and it's funright right, And then of course it
is television, you there's always thatpossibility that it could be staged. But

(09:26):
sometimes when they send it to avideo expert and the person pours over and
says, this, this isn't fakethat I don't see any sign of any
kind of intervention here. This isthis is the actual full video, untouched.
Then you were like what they capture? Then, yeah, exactly,
And that makes excellent fodder for somebodylike me who hates writing realistic fiction and

(09:54):
only wants to write fantasy. Sothat is why I u as a little
segue into the other stuff that wewanted to talk about today. Obviously,
I have a bunch of characters thatare cryptids on the show, and a
lot of those are based in Someof them I have kind of created my
own versions of these, like paranormalbeing sort of things, but a lot

(10:18):
of them are based in real mythand stuff like that, and so I
thought we could we could hit chatabout some of those. I know you
did some research, I know youprepped. Yeah, so of the cryptids
that you mentioned that we were goingto talk about, namely the Lockness Monster
and the Jersey Devil, Mothman,and Bigfoot, I looked up some of

(10:43):
the the legends and the stories surroundingthese these characters. Because it's funny,
even though I've watched all this stufffor years, I just have like a
mishmash of of information. Oh yeah. It's also the nature of them being
like urban legend kind of things.There's a million tellings of the same story

(11:05):
with like a bunch of different details, you know, so like, yeah,
you kind of lose track of like, oh wait, what is the
what is this actually supposed to be? Yeah? Yeah, but yeah,
where should we start? Yeah,so we'll start with with Nessy Blackness Monster
over into Scotland. And I imaginethat anyone tuning into this this program doesn't

(11:26):
need background on these cryptogs. Yeah, I think they probably They probably have
the basics on it. We allknow the general background, right that this
one thing, if it is onlyone animal, which is highly doubtful.
If it does exist, it hasa long neck, and from time to
time over the last centuries it's beenseen to surface and swim around a little

(11:50):
bit and then dive again, neverto be seen again for another fifty or
sixty years, unfortunately. And it'ssupposed to look like a almost like a
dinosaur kind of thing, right,like a swimming dinosaur. Please just saw
something like that, yes, yes, And then again, going back to
my childhood, when I was akid in Catholic school, they would have
book fairs, and I remember earlyon second third grade, whatever it was.

(12:13):
In the book fair, they hadthis one book where it was kind
of cheesy. It was just apaper a paper book, and at the
end you had all these stickers,color stickers, and you would carefully break
out the stickers according to their theirperforated you know, little holes around the
figure and stick them on the pagewhere they belonged. And one of them

(12:33):
was a dinosaur book and of courseas a pleasiosaur chasing a smaller fish with
this really mean looking face. SoI think the first night, maybe it
was on the show in Search ofwhen mister Spock told us about this thing
that could be a pleasiosaur. Well, I wasn't going anywhere except in front
of that TV, right, yeah. But anyway, I did a little
reading on the locked and sponsor andapparently the legend actually dates back to stone

(13:01):
carvings or drawings in caves in thearea that look like please resource yeah right,
which is kind of odd because supposedlythey right, they existed, you
know, a long time or theythey ceased to exist, supposedly a long
time before a man ever walked theair. But and then the first written

(13:22):
account, which I thought was kindof funny, was where Nessie has just
attacked one swimmer and then he's aboutto attack a second one on this lake.
But this Saint Columba who was atthe shore told it to stop,
and it did and it just wentback, it said yes basically, And

(13:46):
this was in five sixty five apOh my god. Yeah, yeah,
it goes back that for jes Soagain, this audience probably is aware of
some of these parts of the legend, but if it does exist, the
thing are being that way back when, you know, in geological time,
these lakes in Scotland were actually muchhigher in water level, so that they

(14:09):
were connected to the oceans and supposedlythat's how these animals swam back and forth.
But somehow as the the general globalwater level dropped, these lakes got
these these these regions of water gotcut off from the ocean. It became

(14:30):
lakes and supposedly trapped these animals there. There are some inconsistencies there, because
scientists will tell you if these animalsare real with their given their size,
there has to be a formidable populationof fish to sustain them, and that
just doesn't exist in these lakes.There are some fish, but nowhere near
the amount that would be necessary tomaintain a colony of these swimming animals unless,

(14:56):
as true believers will will come backwith us, there are some tunnels
under underwater, undercave tunnels that willconnect the lakes to the oceans. Yeah,
I don't know. I didn't findanything, or really I didn't look
at anything to tell me whether thewaters in these locks or lakes which the
Scottish I guess call them locks.I didn't find out if these water bodies

(15:20):
of water are brackish or not toindicate that they are mixed with the oceans
somehow. So that would be aninteresting find if it were, because then
that would lead to the explanation thatmaybe there are some tunnels that connect the
oceans to the locks. Maybe theLockness monsteries actually just sustaining itself on eating
people. How many how many missingpersons? Yes, the authorities like to

(15:48):
doctor the numbers a little bit tokeep the tourists coming back. Then there
were there were smatterings of sightings hereand there again, though you know,
no pictures, no film, justfirst hand account here's say, yeah,
word of mouth. But the oneinteresting was the one interesting one was the
one where they had just finished,I guess, cutting through or paving this

(16:14):
road that ran parallel to the lake. And this couple was out there driving
the lake one time, just foran afternoon drive, and they swear that
they saw this strange creature walk acrossthe road out of the forest and walk
across the road and then dive intothe lake, which would lead you to
believe that this thing is amphibious orthat it has some sort of a blowhole.

(16:37):
But no one's ever reported seeing thesethings surface or breach to breathe.
Right, So then again the truebeliever will come back and say, well,
maybe it's like a turtle, right, it lives in the ocean all
its life, but it has tocome on land to spawn whatever, you
know, I mean, how bigis nesty supposed to be? Like?
That must have been like tractor trailersize crossing the road, right, Yeah,

(17:03):
it's pretty big. Yep, he'sjust flopping around walking across the street.
I don't know if a lot ofpeople know this, but I know
you know this because you suggested thatwe go visit it when I was like
middle school or high school. Butthere's there's a mini NeSSI in the US.
Yes, yeah, there's a lakecalled Lake Champlain and upstate New York
where they have adopted the myth.I don't know how many sightings there's been.

(17:29):
I've never really looked into that much, but they've kind of adopted the
myth of the Lochness Monster. Butthey have their own monster and it's they
call him Champi and they have awhole little cottage of the street. Yeah,
you know, it's great spring uparound this this particular alledge. So
it's cute. So obviously we havehad the Lockness well not the Lochness Monster,

(17:49):
but we've had a sea monster inthe show. In season two,
there's like a hole with like thesea monster that's terrorizing Bluff And I think
I took I took some inspiration fromthe Lochness monster myth. I took some
liberties with the story. Of course, obviously, the the myth of nessie

(18:12):
H. Inherently we have not heardfrom the sea monster but mine and the
story decides to talk to the gangand everything, and it's a little more
active, a little more present,yes, but a little more threatening maybe.
Yeah. Obviously there's been so many, so many sea monster mythologies.

(18:36):
There's the Kraken, there's the thethe meg the meg too, yes,
yes, oh my, you don'thave them more to run too, that
guy when you're on I mean evenlike even like Jaws in a way,

(18:56):
like it's kind of the sea monstervibe, but put in a little bit
more of a realistic sense. Yes, yes, yes, I mean if
you really consider the size of someof these animals out there, they truly
are monsters in the in the inthe real sense of the world Wales.
Because of their their sheers yo.Yeah, their size compared to humans,

(19:18):
they really humble you. If yousee them up close and you see the
power, you can see why maybeyou know, ancient ancient people's would would
call these things monsters. Yeah,because it was hard to really wrap your
head around the power that and thepotential they could have. Just before we
leave Nessie. It's probably my leastfavorite one, only because the sightings have

(19:42):
been so infrequent, and the mostfamous picture was debunked the person Yeah no,
when the person who took the picturesaid he was working with someone who
made a model just from from theneck up, and they put it like
on a little floating thing, andthey put it on the lake and they
took a picture of it. Amazing, amazing, exactly even knowing that though,

(20:06):
I remember as a kid watching thatone episode of In Search of about
NeSSI, and the one thing Iremember about it was pretty boring, right
because you're mostly looking at the surfaceof a very dark lake, very cold
lake. Right. But the onething I do remember is they actually I
forget if the boat belonged to theproduction crew or they maybe chartered the boat,

(20:27):
but they sent out a scientist withthis modern sonar equipment to go up
and down across the lake and seeif you could find something. And there
was just this one moment where theyactually showed the recording of the sonar where

(20:47):
it hit some target, hit back, a very large target, pretty deep
because these lakes are really deep.Apparently they were carved by glaciers eons ago,
so they're very deep. And whenthe boat skipper or captain turned around
to try to go back and seeif you could verify the target, he
was gone. It was probably ananomaly. But even though so in our

(21:10):
experts said, usually don't get anomaliesthat that that that big. You get
blips, but not something this huge, you know, but it didn't really.
It was just a blob. Itdidn't have a shape like a pleasiosaur
or something. So again no pictures, no film, no proof. Yeah,
unfortunately that's Nasy's or not or it'sa log. So who's next on

(21:36):
the down? So the next onethat you had mentioned was the moth Man.
Yes, and I know that oneis special to you because you actually
visited it's stomping grounds. Yes,yes, yes, I did. The
moth Man special to me for manyreasons. There's a statue of him in
West Virginia, which is uh.I'll let you talk about the lore for

(21:57):
it and everything, but it's ait's where he's from, and we happened
to be in West Virginia, Meand Caroline, who placed Sybil, and
our other friend. We went becausewe are big fans of the McElroy brothers
and their series of podcasts. Theyhave a show every year that they do

(22:19):
during the winter holidays that they callCandle Nights and it's a charity show that
they put on in their hometown inHuntington, West Virginia, and we got
tickets and wanted to go, sowe made the trek out there and it
was so fun, and then werealized that we were only about an hour
and a half away from the townwhere the Mothman's from and we needed to

(22:41):
go see the statue. So wedid. It was great, very small
town, Point Pleasant, Yes,Point Pleasant, West Virginia. Y.
Yeah, the Mothman's fun. TheMothman also has like I don't know if
you've seen this done because you're noton a lot of social media and stuff,
but as far as Kryptids go,oh, everybody loves the moth Man.
Really. People are nuts for thisdude. I don't know why,

(23:03):
but there is like a there isa collective love for the moth Man.
I don't I don't know, hejust he just like like people make like
plushies of this dude now and likejust fun little like everybody. It's just
it's become like a meme in itselfon the internet too. Now it's just
like, really okay, anything aboutthe moths, like everyone's favorite cryptid,
which I think is funny. Yeah, I was gonna say to me,

(23:26):
this one is a little odd becauseit's it's like a cross between folklore and
a Marvel moving. We have ahumanoid shape, it's kind of with large
wings and it can fly really fast, right, he's kind of yes,
yes, if you look at thelegend, supposedly, uh, it was
chasing a car at one time,going like eight right, So that's pretty

(23:49):
quick. Just to briefly go throughagain, it's history. I think it
all started in nineteen sixty six inPoint Pleasant, West Virginia. Right.
The two couples went out for adrive in the evening, young young couples,
and they were driving around this placethat had been used to produce TNT

(24:11):
munitions during World War Two, soit had been abandoned years earlier, but
it was a good place I guessfor kids to go and and hang out
and have fun. And that nightthey basically you know, ran into the
police, the nearby police station,screaming that they had seen this, this
monster, this figure that looked likelooked like a man, a muscular man

(24:37):
as toll as seven feet twelve withwith white wings and red eyes. Right,
yeah, that's it. And soafter they they made this report,
of course the newspapers got got aholdof it, and the next day there
were hundreds of people with their gunsout near this munitions plant. They were
going to find this this monster.Of yeah, if you don't understand it,

(25:00):
kill it, then we'll ask yourquestion, what the hell's operator?
She would first ask questions later.But of course they didn't find morth Man.
But but they did give birth tothe legend. Right, many were
convinced that these kids had just seena very large bird. Right, Some

(25:22):
naturalists thrown around there that might havebeen that might have been suspected, although
to the day of their death,they always stuck to their story what they
saw. But again, naturalists inthe area said, you know, we
have these large birds that migrate throughthere, namely I think sandhill crane and
and and a heron, and Ithink one of the two actually has this

(25:45):
red flesh around the eyes, whichwhich if your headlights happened to hit it
straight on, it's gonna look reallyspooky, right if you've never seen one.
Yeah, those kids stuck to theirstories, and which is interesting because
they were met with a lot ofnotoriety. You know, some people believed
them, but others thought that theywere just trying to pull a hoax that

(26:06):
was making the area look bad.Yeah, so they they were ostracized a
bit actually in the community. Buteven with that, they stuck to their
stories. Give them credit for that. However, there were some pranksters,
like I read where a group ofcontractors or construction workers at one night they
got a bunch of helium balloons andthey tied small, small flashlights to him

(26:30):
and and they set them off,you know, in town. So that
caused some hysteria as well, ofcourse, you know, but all in
good fun. Yeah, and thenthings took bridge collapse, right, was
that what you're gonna say? Iwas just going to get into that.
Yeah. It was all fun andgames until that night this silver bridge collapsed
in nineteen sixty seven. And whenthat happened, the Mothman made made headlines

(26:51):
again. People were like, wesaw him, he was and that I
remember, like, yeah, Likesome people were like, we saw him.
He was the bridge collapse, andother people were like, we saw
him. He was trying to warnus of the bridge. And everybody's like,
yep, I don't we have otherthings to deal with right now.
You had the Mothman as friend campand the Mothman as the folk exactly team

(27:15):
versus team. Yes, but yeah, this bridge, I guess it connected
Point Pleasant in West Virginia to aplace called Gallapolis in Ohio, and one
night right before Christmas, forgot sixon the fifteenth, I guess, there
was a lot of traffic and atone point traffic had been stopped on it
and there were too many cars.The bridge had not been maintained properly.

(27:38):
The design was not the best,but it was efficient at the time,
and it collapsed and forty six soulswere lost that night. Some people,
then, like you said, citedthat they had seen the Morthman flying around
the bridge just days before it happened, And again people were split on whether
it was a warning or whether itwas a causation right of the collapse.

(28:03):
So also over the years, thenumber of people who originally saw the Mothman.
Around nineteen sixty six has only grown. But ultimately, in reality,
there were only a few people,those two young couples and maybe one or
two other people at night that sawthat thought they saw something strange. But
again, in the end, wehave eyewitness accounts right of an event that

(28:26):
occurred at night, very dark,right at an abandoned manufacturing point, leading
to descriptions of a cryptod that soundsalike like a very well known large bird,
yeah right, that occasionally would migrate, not all the time, but
it would occasionally migrate through that area. So these young kids would not be

(28:48):
very familiar with this animal. Yeah, but unfortunately, again no film,
no pictures. There is a statuethough, but there's a statue. Yes,
there's a statue, and there isa menacing looking statue. Yeah.
Yes, the museum that you wentto. Yeah, we only went to
the front part of the museum becausethen they wanted twenty bucks for us to
go to the rest of it.And I was like, I'm not but

(29:11):
I guess they need that Torus moneyof course. But yeah, it's a
The Mothman is as a special placein my heart. It's a fun legend.
I like the like I'm glad thatI've gotten to like see the the
statue and everything. Anyone who's listeningto this is probably like, if the
Mothman so special to you, whyisn't he in the show? Because they're

(29:33):
right, I don't have the Mothmanin the show. Like I said,
it's very recently gotten like super popularonline and stuff, but there's not like
a lot of depictions of him outsideof the original story. And like the
one of the only depictions that I'veseen that I have absolutely fallen in love

(29:56):
with is from the macilroy brothers,and they have a D and D podcast,
right, and in one of theircampaigns, their whole the whole stick
of the campaign was there were anadventuring group that lives in like modern day
West Virginia in the Appalachian area bylike the Green Bank Telescope, so they're

(30:18):
kind of in like a radio quietarea, but that there's uh, there's
a portal to another world where allthe cryptids come from. So there's like,
like the Mothman's a character in theshow, and he is so excellently
done that I'm like, I can'tI can't top this, and his the

(30:41):
Mothman's whole thing is that like Ithink it came from the idea that he
like somehow predicted the bridge collapse andwas like trying to warn people like that
whole thing. They were like,oh, he can see the future,
like he knows all that kind ofstuff, and and I had thought about,
like, well I could do that, but like I kind of already

(31:03):
have an oracle figure because like Lizziewas there from the beginning and she's kind
of the oracle. And I'm like, I don't need that many people see
in the future. That's we'll makethings too easy for them, you know.
So I never I never included themoth Man, but I do love
him dearly. Well, maybe he'llend up in some other venturect future,

(31:25):
right, some other projects exactly.All right, Next up, moving along,
we have one that's near and dearto me, and that is the
Jersey Devil. Yeah, and ofcourse that's yep, that's yeah, he's
he's dear to my heart because I'vepractically lived my whole life in New Jersey,
so we're we're cold residents of thesame state, so to speak,

(31:49):
Yes, very different areas though he'she's South Jersey, yes, right,
he he hails from a region inour lovely garden state called the Pine Barrens
Pine Barrens, yes, otherwise knownas the pine Lands. Yes, And
this area is is in a largepart of the southern New Jersey. In

(32:12):
fact, it stretches across seven countiesand it makes up twenty five percent of
the total areas of state, whichis incredible. Wild. Is that wild?
Yeah? In case you wonder whenthe Pine Barrens gets its name from
the sandy, acidic, nutrient poorsoil that's found in the area. Parts
to grow things are. Yeah,they originally called it the pine barrens because

(32:34):
they were like, we can't growanything here. And now more in modern
times they're like, well, it'sthe pine Lands because like despite it being
like not a good place to growthings, it is like a very unique
ecosystem and we should like keep thisaround. So it also, I believe,
is a huge aquifer. Oh yeah, for the region's water, producing

(32:57):
some of the cleanest water around.They say, from what I read in
the accounts so history legend, Yes, the Jersey Devil rights. It's it's
a pretty mature legend. It's it'sgot many many angles to it, but
the simplest one is that in seventeenthirty five, a woman named Jane Leads,

(33:20):
otherwise known as Mother Leads. Shehad twelve kids already, and when
she finds out that she's pregnant witha thirteenth, oh yeah, God,
she cursed this child in frustration,declaring that this child would be a devil.
Right. So, as a legendhas it, on a stormy night
and she's surrounded by by her midwifeand her friends. She goes into labor

(33:43):
and she gives birth to what appearsto be a normal child, but almost
instantly this thing transforms to have hoofsand a goat's head, bats, wings,
and a forked tail. Okay,and it runs around in havoc,
you know, braising, breaking cupsand glasses and stuff, before it finally

(34:04):
flies up the chimney, you know, into the woods, never to be
seen for a while anyway. Butif you look deeper into it, some
connect this legend with the history ofthe family Leads, which was pretty influential.
I think they were publishers, newspaperpublishers, so they had political influence,

(34:29):
and at one point they fell outof favor with the Quaker community down
there, and so maybe at onepoint the influential, rich patriarch. The
Quakers thought of him as as adevil, as a bad guy, so
that might have added or maybe sprungthe legend a bit. It gave it

(34:51):
its beginnings. There are other factorsto it, that there were some connections
with England and that for there's thethe idea, there's there's some historical records
that this family did have a womanwith nine kids or ten kids, so
you could see the connections there.But there's also the fact that the original

(35:15):
inhabitants of the Pine Barrens, goinggoing way back, even before the seventeen
thirty five birth of the Jersey Double, they believed that the area was inhabited
or or haunted right by by aspirit called m Singh M Singh. When
we're talking about like the like nativetribes and their native tribes, the Lenni

(35:37):
Lenape's yes, which were there,the native New Jersey Indians, and this
this M sing creature sometimes took theform of why didn't you know it?
A deer light creature with leathery wings. Okay, okay, So I think
there was submerging of legends and mythsand convenience stories and maybe political storylines right

(36:04):
to influence people at the time.But in any event, no cryptid legend
is authentic without sightings, right,and this one is no difference. So
I looked up some of the morefamous sightings, and there was a commander
or a commodore, Stephen Decatur okay, visiting from England. He was visiting

(36:29):
some cannon ball making factors, okay, when supposedly he saw this creature up
in the air and he fired oneof his He had one of his annion
balls fired on it. Supposedly hehit it, but it didn't have any
impact that the creature just kept flyingaway. Oh my god, again with
the shoot first asked questions later ofcourse, of course, yeah, you
can't take credit for it unless youkill it right and hould it in right.

(36:51):
So and then this one's really interesting. The brother of Napoleon Bonaparte Okay,
his brother Joseph. Apparently they hadan estate in BOARDENTWN and he would
go there to do some hunting,and he says he saw something that fit
the description. Yes, I hadnever heard of that one until I read
about it this week. It's crazy. And then there were the occasional reports

(37:14):
of livestock killings mutilations. Yeah,it gets kind of with that kind of
stuff into the realm of like chupacabraesque things of like, like instead of
a goat killer, it's a goatthat is killing livestock. But there is
a story I need to share withyou, Okay. It was I think
you guys gave me a book forChristmas on all this stuff, and there

(37:35):
was this one story in it.It was about a guy probably in his
sixties at the time, and heshared something that happened to him when he
was about twelve or thirteen living downthere in South Jersey. He would go
to the pine barrens with his dadto go fishing, you know, during
the summer a lot. And onemorning he remembers it's really foggy, so
they can't they can't go in thelake yet it would be dangerous, right,

(37:59):
So, waiting on shore, andas the fox starts to lift,
he hears a noise just about fifteentwenty feet in front of him at the
water's edge, right, because theywere back on land waiting. Hey,
I know that, yes, whatis that? Yes? But anyway,
he says this as a boy,he's looking at at where this noise is

(38:21):
coming. From and as the foxstarts to lift, he sees what looks
like a large head with a likelike like a nostril kind of you know,
like like a dog or a horsekind of thing, attached to these
very strong looking shoulders. And butthere's no hair. It's like leathery,
no hair at all. And thenhe's just, you know, what is

(38:44):
that is that? Is it adog? Is it, like you said,
maybe a coyote or something. It'ssomething a canine, right, it
looked like a canine almost. Butthen he says, as the fog lifted
more and more, this thing spreadsthese wings to to his little boy's eyes,
they looked like they were ten twelvefeet wide, all leather. Again,
he says he could almost see throughthem, like transparent, like he

(39:07):
could see the veins and stuff throughthe leather. And this thing gets up
on its legs. It's about sixfeet twelve. It does one or two
swoops with the wings and it's upin the air and it's gone. And
as it flies across the lake,it's heading for the forest, and the
forest is pretty dense down there,right, he said, I'm thinking this

(39:28):
thing is going to crash into thetrees. They're so dense. But as
he approached, as this thing approachesthe trees, he says that it goes
from a horizontal attitude. I guessit is to completely vertical, so it
can it can get between the treesif he just he says, it flew
between it disappeared, didn't see itagain. That was weird. I thought,

(39:49):
you know, i'm reading this dI'm reading this story, you know,
just an entertaining story and one ofthese, you know, fun books.
But then to throw that detail inthere, Yeah, I thought that
was interesting. Right, So hesays twenty years later, I'm the leader
of a boy Scout trooper and Itake him to uh, like I think
it was in Philadelphia, some museumof Natural History whatever, and the tour

(40:14):
guide is walking us through, andthey got on the store of the Jersey
Devil, and he described what hesaw as a kid or he he started
to describe it, and the tourguide said, but we know, that's
that's all, you know, afun story we make up to to to
entertain ourselves around the campfire, etcetera. He cut him off, basically,

(40:36):
and he continued with the tour.But later when the boys are when
when the when the day is overand the boys are in the cafeteria are
ready to go back, you know, back home. The tour guide pulled
him aside and said, listen,I apologize for cutting you off, but
what you were you what you weredescribing was described to me by two others
who saw the same thing, andI just didn't want to scare the boys.

(40:58):
Oh. They they've come to mewith the same story. Yeah,
yeah, he said. I don'tknow what that is. I don't know
what what kind of animal that is, Like I don't want to deal with
it. Yeah, no, hesaid, He said, I just wanted
you to know that you're not alone. And I wasn't being rude. I
just didn't want to scare the boystoo much. But again, it's kind
of like what you said about theMothman, is that there was this flurry

(41:22):
of sightings and hysteria and then justnothing for the longest time. Yeah right.
Also, for the record, nobodyoutside of New Jersey knows what the
Jersey Devil is unless you live inlike maybe Pa or is that right?
Oh yeah, he's not as bigas huh, because I'll say something about
like oh yeah, ha, howJersey Devil and they're like, what,
what is the Jersey Devil? AndI'm like, you've never heard of the

(41:43):
Jersey Devil. He needs a betterpublicity agent, I think, yeah,
apparently, but also like I kindof get it. Like until I moved
to California, I didn't hear.I didn't know what a Fresno Nightcrawler was,
which is a that's for a wholeother episode. Those are weird.
Those are weird and fun. Theylook like a big pants pants. Yeah,

(42:04):
I'll explain. Yeah, Like theJersey Devil is such a fun myth
and I feel like in when yougrow up in New Jersey, if you
have even an inkling of interest inthe paranormal, you weren't gonna hear about
the Jersey Devil. And it's likea fun story. And the Pine Barrens
are also just kind of notorious fora lot of reasons. You know,
it's like a weird area. Likeyou said, the trees are like really

(42:27):
densely packed and stuff, and it'slike forested, like basically no one lives
there, Like it's like the BlackForest kind of, you know, the
New Jersey's own version of the Blackexactly. And it's like no one goes
in there because there's no reason togo in there. Really, there's no
reason. Yeah, But so soit's a lot of fodder for things like
you know, also there's whole mobconnections of we're gonna go bury somebody out

(42:49):
on the Pine Bearns. Yeah,yeah, they won't be looking in there
exactly. So like there's like justa lot of lore around that area,
so it makes sense that like theJersey Devile would kind of hang on.
Also, there's a freaking hockey team, the Jersey Devil. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I guess you couldn't beinto the hockey either if you're going
to claim you don't know the JerseyDevils, right, which I find that

(43:09):
so funny. I feel like there'sa there's a I think it is a
hockey team as well. There's aSeattle hockey team that recently either was recently
created or recently changed their names orsomething, but they're called the Krakens,
and beside them and New Jersey,I don't think I've ever heard of any
other team that is using a fictionalcreature as their mascot, you know what

(43:32):
I mean. And I just thinkit's so fun. But it makes sense
because they're kind of like right onthe water or two writes exactly. But
yeah, so as far as theJersey Devil myth goes with the podcast,
I'm sure as you were telling thatstory, Keen listeners might have noticed that
I took a whole ton of inspirationfor Francy from the actual mythology of the

(43:58):
of the Jersey Devil, because Iwas like, if the Jersey Devil is
going to be in this, firstof all, there is there is like
one kind of iteration of how theJersey Devil myth came about. Right,
It's like pretty clear, It's likepretty documented as far as like the myth
right and the mother leads and thethirteenth kid and blah blah blah, you
know what I mean. Yeah,So I was like, I want to
stay really true to the the loreand also because like like I said,

(44:22):
like nobody knows what the Jersey Devilis outside of New Jersey, and I
want to. I want to,I want to teach, I want to
have the right ship. So yes, a yeah, So Francy Francisco his
last name is Leeds. His mother, he's not the thirteenth kid, but
he is one of seven children.He got his power. He grew up

(44:46):
in New Jersey and South Jersey andhe got his powers. The lore is
he went to a lake in thepine barrens because they were out like you
know, playing around in high schoolwhatever. He he ends up falling into
this magic lake gets these powers,right, So he gets he's bestowed the
powers in a different way. He'snot just born as as the scary Jessy

(45:07):
devil and flies out the chimney.But and then all of his powers are
very like, very based in thelegends. So he like when he is
in his cryptid form, he hashoofs and he's got the wings, and
he's got the goat heead and hecould talk to goats and he can fly
and all this stuff. Right,So just the lt wrong, great guy,

(45:30):
Yeah, Francis my face, Yeah, Francis. Just for for our
listeners too. There is a LeedsPoint, New Jersey. Yes about that.
So again, like we were kindof alluding to before, it seems
like in every myth and every legendthere is a bit of truth. Yeah,
you know that exactly. You justhave to pull on that string and

(45:51):
see where it leads. Yeah,Francis, Francis Francie's uh. I suppose
accuracy to the to the lore ofhis cryptid is something I'm quite proud of
because I just I had so muchfun with that. You know. Yeah,
he is a fun crypto. Heis he's great, he's he's a

(46:16):
real hell raiser. Oh yeah,runs up your roof and sounds like there's
a goat up there, you know, Yes, messages with your livestock and
everything else. So ye. Atthe beginning of our cryptid segment, I
had asked you first, like,which crypto do you want to start with?
Which one's your favorite? But youwere like, maybe we should go
from least favorite to favorite. Soyes, that means yes, Bigfoot sasquatch,

(46:45):
Yes, skunk ape excuse me?Yeah, who calls it a skunk
ape? The interesting thing about Bigfootis that when I was a kid,
I thought the legend of Bigfoot wasconstrained only to the Pacific northwest. Right,

(47:07):
and then again, cable TV comesaround, right, and you have
more choices and your channel surfing andooh, what's this. This is a
guy down in Kentucky saying he sawsomething in Kentucky, right, Or here's
another guy down in Arkansas. Sayinghe saw something. And the one thing
about these bigfoot sightings, the oneconstant is that anyone who gets close enough

(47:32):
to it says that it's got thisfoul stench of like musk and sweat and
just bad odor, all of them. And I forget where it is.
It might be the Arkansas when theycall it the skunk Cape, or Florida.
I think they call it the skunkCape, right, because it definitely

(47:52):
is if it exists, it isa primate, right, It certainly looks
like a very large gorilla perhaps,or more specifically, something else I saw
recently. It looks more like anorangutane, right than a gorilla. But
I think I find it most intriguing, this particular legend, because at its

(48:12):
core, it's really kind of ordinary, right, Like I said, it's
just it's just some sort of aprimate. Yeah, what's so impossible about
that? Right? When I wasa kid, and you tell me if
you felt the same way. Rightwhen you're a kid and you're in second
third grade, your teachers are like, god, oh right, they know

(48:32):
everything. Yeah, And the impressionthat I got from my teachers was we
know everything that raised on this planetto now, Yeah, we've we've searched,
and we've found, and we've catalogedand screened everything. We know everything.
But then as you get older,then you hear, well, the
forests of the Pacific Northwest is sodense that there are areas of humans.

(48:54):
I've never gotten into. What howcould that be? Well, it's just
it's it's moongus, it's huge.You know, growing up in New Jersey,
you don't know what huge is untilyou you see pictures or maps or
or or you know, accounts fromfrom areas like that. And truly,
you can go in there and getlost for days and no one will find

(49:14):
you, right, or you cango in there and not be found unless
you want to be found. Right. So then when a story comes around
about an animal that hides, thatmaybe has a special skillet hiding, you
kind of like, well, yeah, they might be able to do that
in those kind of areas. Ifthey don't want to be found, they
don't have to be So I foundthat intriguing. Depending on what region these

(49:38):
sightings come from, right, thecharacteristics can change slightly from black to brown
hair to reddish hair, but theheight is always seven to eight to nine
foot tall. Right, that's prettybig. And finally, they always share
that one characteristic. If they getclose enough to this thing, the smell

(50:00):
coming from it is pretty bad.You get these accounts from early Native Americans
would share with the early European settlers, especially in the Pacific Northwest. They
would tell them how routinely these hairymen of the forest would come down into
their camps at night to steal theirfood. Sometimes there are women and kids.

(50:23):
They would take them away, tothe point where some tribes actually had
some real serious battles with them tofinally rid them of this problem once and
for all. And I guess theybeat them back hard enough where these creatures

(50:44):
did not see any benefit in messingwith humans again. So then the question
that comes up is, so iseveryone making this up? Is everyone really
trying to pull a hoax thinking they'regoing to make money off of it or
get fame is from it? Orthe Native or the Native Americans thinking of
making little sasquatch dolls to sell tothe European settlers. Why did they tell,

(51:07):
you know? Or maybe they weretrying to scare them away. Perhaps
they were trying to scare them away. But I recently came across another show
on TV where they they cited somemission missionary from Europe who wrote in his
diaries, Yeah, these these thesethings routinely come out of the forest at

(51:28):
night and they raid these camps andstuff and we have to beat them back.
And this was in the Illinois Chicagoarea before it became Chicago. So
again, if you're going to believeit's a hoax, then you have to
tell yourself, what what why arepeople doing this? There's no money in
it, really, yeah, right, the only ones who make the money
are the ones who make the documentaries. I don't know if they pay for

(51:50):
the information. They might, butif it was found out that they're paying
for it, then it might cheapentheir product, right, So they may
not want to do that, Sowhat's the motivation for doing It's also pretty
recent that anything like that has becomepopular enough to be like made into like
TV and documentary kind of stuff.So yeah, the Bigfoot legend is interesting

(52:10):
too, because, like you said, it's you know how like there's a
lot of similarities in people's accounts andthey're all over the place. That's a
thing that I find very interesting isthat, like, you know, the
Jersey Devil is just in the pinebarrens. The Mothman is just in Point
Pleasant, West Virginia. The FresnoNightcrawlers are just in California, like Fresno

(52:37):
area. The Lochness Monster is containedto a lake. Still can't find it,
but like yeah, because I like, yeah, it's the idea of
you know, things like the rainforesthas species that are being found, Like
like we find like ten or twentynew species of things every year, you

(53:00):
know, which is cool as hell. Granted a lot of them are very
small, so it's like a frogor something, but like, you know,
it is still like like the atat its core, it's like,
could there be an animal that's outthere that we haven't seen? Yeah,
for sure, But I think yeah, depend it really depends on the situation,

(53:23):
because I feel like Bigfoot is theone where there is by far the
most accounts, like only second asfar as paranormal things like that go only
second to ghosts. You know,yes, I'd have to agree. Yeah,
that's I think that's the lure,that's the hook right to this particular
crypto and its legend. So again, you know, are all these witnesses

(53:47):
lying to get their fifteen minutes offame perhaps, but they also have to
know there's a risk right with withbeing ridiculed. It could it could go
the other way. So what Ithink is happening again with my scientists hat
On, I think what's happening isa lot of these sightings are simply people

(54:07):
who are not really outdoors people.They may go camping once twice a year
with the family, and they trulybelieve they see something. They're looking at
something that is not a bear.They know that's not a bear, but
do they really right, Yeah,they could be forty sixty eighty yards one

(54:29):
hundred yards from this thing, andit's it's situated at just the right angle
where it doesn't you can't see thebear snout and it looks like bigfoot,
right, And they're coming back andsaying, I think I saw it right,
Yeah, bears, Like I feellike a lot of people forget that.
Bears also like can walk on theirhind legs a little bit. Like
yes, they'll they'll get up andlike scratch their back against like trees and

(54:50):
stuff like that. They're like marketswhatever, and like so they can they
can do that. They can likewalk a few steps and so like that
would get that would look crazy inthe middle of the night if you you
saw something Harry from far away standingon two dusks, yeah, at dusk
or at dawn exactly, Yeah,they'll stand up on their two legs to
get a better sniff. Right,So I think the vast majority of sightings

(55:12):
can probably be attributed to that.However, having said that, in all
the shows I've seen, in allthe years I've watched these things, there
are two accounts that really stick withme. Okay, they both had the
same theme, right, young guysin their twenties. One I think had
an uncle, one had a grandfather, and they basically said these men were

(55:37):
brought to the woods as soon asthey could carry a rifle, which in
their families was nine, ten,eleven years old, by their fathers.
They were taught to hunt at anearly age, and they basically grew up
in the woods. With respect toeach account, my grandfather or my uncle
knows what a bear looks like.He knows what a bear does and look

(56:00):
like, and he knows what hesaw, and he told me what he
saw, and it wasn't a bear, and it wasn't a large coyote.
It wasn't anything else that we thatis known. And then when the interview
or said would he would he whetherthe grandfather or the uncle come on a

(56:20):
camera and tell us, and theysaid, no, they won't tell anyone.
They're taking it to the grave.The only one they've told is the
family, myself, my dad,or my you know, my my father
or or my cousin whatever, Andthat that really stuck with me. Yeah,
because again, people are so theycan't wait to run out and tell

(56:42):
everyone what they've seen, maybe youknow, get get those fifteen minutes of
fame, or or just just outof excitement right share with with people what
they've seen. And it just soundedlike these two guys were the complete opposite.
I know what I've seen, maybethey've seen it before. I don't
bother it. It won't bother me. But I have my gun with me

(57:02):
at all times and we coexist.Yea. And no, I don't need
to tell anyone because I don't careif anyone believes you or not. So
those two accounts are the ones thatI really wonder about. And I would
love to knock on those guys doorsand sit down with them. Yeah,
obra beer and just ask him,what did you see? Yeah, as
far as cryptids go to, like, like I said, Bigfoot has the

(57:27):
most sightings, Bigfoot also has themost uh you know, air quotes evidence
as far as like video and picturestuff, it's kind of the like it's
in a similar vein with like Isaid, ghosts and say like UFOs are
the only other thing where we havethat many like where there is actually a
lot of material that is like attemptingto be you know, proven or debunked

(57:51):
or whatever. Who knows if it'sreal and stuff. Obviously, the most
famous is the oh god, what'sthe film? But the you know the
one that everybody oh, the onein California where it's walking away and it
turns and looks. Yeah, butI think that one didn't they say that
that was a guy in a suitthough it was. That's the thing.

(58:12):
It's a famous video, but theydid. Eventually, I think one of
the guys that helped put it togetherfinally admitted that like, yeah, we
did, we did fake that,and then the other one denies it and
stuff. But they're not friends anymore. So it's like I'm gonna go with
I think the one that's saying itwas faked, but yeah, yeah,
yeah, but it is. Yeah. Bigfoot is like, for shirt,

(58:34):
the most well known myth and italso, like I think it goes along
with like the way that the LochnessMonster is like one s monster myth in
it a huge collection of c monstermyths, like the Jersey Devil is very
unique, the Mothman's pretty unique,you know. But Bigfoot like things,

(58:57):
I feel like, are very commonin places like North America obviously, like
it's it's super popularized in the US. But like the YETI is like a
different thing but kind of similar,Like this large hairy being. It just
tends to be in like Arctic climates. You've got like the idea of giants.
There is another angle that I haveto share with you about Bigfoot,

(59:20):
Okay, and I don't know allthe details, but I remember, you
know, Mom, she always rollsher eyes when she sees me watching one
of these shows. But I thinkshe read or she saw something that back
in maybe the seven years of theeighties, when certain parts of northern California

(59:40):
were used to illegally grow pot Sorryon this, Yeah, they actually would
hire these these really tall guys toput on suits and scare people away that
way to pretend they would bigfoot basicallytoo, they would, yeah, they
or they wouldn't continue going on theirhike because eventually they would run into their

(01:00:02):
farm, right, and it wasillegal and they didn't want anyone seeing where
it was. So I thought thatwas hysterical and very believable right now.
So now the question is what camefirst the bigfoot sightings or these guys dressing
up and then being cited as bigfoot, right, Yeah, so it's very
interesting. It's interesting. Yeah.Again, the things that you can't ignore

(01:00:24):
are the vastness of these farces thatwe have in our country right and around
the world for that matter, again, completely shattering my sense as a kid
of having complete knowledge and control ofour planet. It'd be hard to believe
that something this big, unless,of course, if it's intelligent enough and
it does not want to be discovered, which ties into the idea that a

(01:00:52):
long time ago there was basically awar between the human species and whatever this
thing is to finally leave us alone, and it might have been so brutal,
so bloody on their side that theygot scared into perpetual hiding and they
run when they see a human theway some people might run when they see

(01:01:14):
a dog. It's just instinctual,just just bread into them, passed along
in the DNA that when you seea human you make track out of that
as fast as you can, becausethey're not it's bad news. Based on
the history of firstand accounts where peopleimmediately try to shoot things that we have

(01:01:34):
gone through in this episode, Idon't blame them exactly exactly. Oh yeah,
I think it's I think it's interestinggoing connecting it to the podcast.
So I don't have an on screencharacter that is Bigfoot. There is a
mention of Mari's brother. Mari hasa younger brother that they mentioned is a

(01:01:55):
baby bigfoot, little bigfoot and trainingkind of thing. Eventually will be big
Foot. But that's like the mostthat I really have as far as Bigfoot
goes. But so I didn't havea lot to talk about in this section.
But it's funny you were talking aboutthe whole idea of like maybe there

(01:02:15):
was some battle and so therefore,like Bigfoot is like humans bad, We're
not going to associate with them everagain. And that's kind of the premise
for what happened to cryptids like longtime ago in the show because like that's
why human when they went into hidingand everything, because there was this like
hunting of the unnatural thing of thesecryptids, and so they said, no,

(01:02:37):
no, we are going to removeourselves. And slowly, over time,
some more brave people, I mean, like some people never went into
hiding and like some people, youknow, slowly these towns have repopped up.
But like, there is there isthat sect of cryptid and some of
the like you know, it's mentioneda lot by a lot of people in
the show, like there are manycryptids that don't trust humans at all because

(01:03:00):
of the things they've done to themin the past. And I think that's
a fun you know, unintentional onmy part, but I think it is
the A lot of the show dealswith the idea of like how things that
we perceive as strange or different areoften treated badly and with violence. Yeah,

(01:03:20):
so misunderstanding or at least just pushedaway, like pushed to the side
sort of thing. It's interesting thatthe big Footmith kind of gets into that
too, So yeah, I meanyou could you could see it along along
that track. But again, ultimately, like with the other cryptids, unfortunately,
I don't think people will believe unlessyou have a very clear picture or

(01:03:44):
film yea, or a corpse unfortunately, which brought me to another another point
that I always thought, well,why don't we find these things, and
like, why don't we find deadones in the wild? Yeah, you
know, they have to drop thatsoon or later and if they're alive.
But then someone didn't experiment where theyjust basically dropped a dead deer in the
woods and within a week it wasgone. It was just obliterated by predators,

(01:04:11):
scavengers basically not predators but scavengers andother microbes. The bones I think
basically just kind of got covered upby something sort of thing covered up and
yeah, or just trampled on orjust taken for their marrow, you know,
by other other scavengers. Again,so that might explain why we've never
come across a dead big foot,but I'm afraid, you know, it's

(01:04:39):
something that big requires big proof,so exactly until until that happens, and
you I would never want to seeone captured, you know, God for
a bid would be the worst wayfor like the big yeah yeah, or
shot or killed. Yeah, youknow, that's fun until that happens.
It's a fun story. Exactly likeand it's gets campy. And so I

(01:05:02):
have a couple other little questions foryou, a few of which we've kind
of already naturally covered. But uh, you know, obviously we've discussed that
your favorite cryptids Bigfoot. Is thereany particular reason why it's your favorite?
I think only because of all thecryptids, I think it would need the

(01:05:24):
smallest leap into reality. That's fair. Yeah, it doesn't fly, It
doesn't like predict the future at bridgecollapse. It doesn't. It doesn't swim
in a barren lea, yeah,right, with no food in its just
some dude walking around in the forest. Just just some ape, just some

(01:05:45):
some Yeah, some version of anorangutang maybe just maybe maybe a little more
advanced than an orangutang. Maybe looksa little a little like us. Maybe,
Yeah, like you said, justwalking around and smart enough for whatever
reason to avoid us. Yeah.Well, there's that whole there's that whole

(01:06:05):
idea of there's so many like largepredator animals of like I said, like
bears, you know, most ofthe time, if they don't want to
be seen, you're not going tosee them. But like even more so,
like they say around here, Mountainlions are a thing that exists in
California and stuff. If you seea mountain lion, you're screwed. Like

(01:06:26):
they are always around and you willnever know until it's a problem, you
know, like you do not seethem, but they're there. Yeah,
but they're there, yeah, becausethey are just really good at hiding.
And they're not small big boys,beefy boys. Oh yeah, no,
yeah, I wouldn't want to messwith them. Yea. Even around here
in New Jersey at night, youhear some sounds coming from the wooded areas

(01:06:48):
that you just don't hear during theday. And I once I googled certain
sounds of the forest or whatever,and it sounds like some of them and
it turned out to be bobcats.Oh yeah, right, yeah, bobcats.
And I mean like they're not supposedto be in New Jersey. But
you know, like pythons weren't supposedto be in Florida either until recently,

(01:07:09):
exactly until people thought it'd be coolto have them as pets, until they
got to freaking big and they lethim out. Right, So you can
see some morons bringing in, youknow, illegal bobcats, and before you
know it, you know, theygot to let him lose them, but
they they've got some of the mostbone chilling screams you've ever heard. Oh
my god, it sounds like ahaunted forest kind of thing. Yeah,
and it's just a freaking bobcat.But like you said, you'd never see

(01:07:31):
him during the day exactly, andyet they're probably looking at you as you're
going by, or trying to youknow, open the tree or in the
bush and trying to avoid you.Oh yeah, for sure. This is
I guess this is kind of awell, actually, you know what this
is. This is a lower questionfor the podcast, I guess because I
don't think we've ever established what themayor is. He's a cryptid, for

(01:07:54):
sure. I don't know what kindof cryptid he is the character you play,
because I was going to ask youwhat cryptid would you be? If
you could be a cryptid and youhave the opportunity to do so, you
play a character, Oh wow,what cryptid would you be? Or it
doesn't have to be an established one. It could it doesn't have to be
one of the ones we talked about. It could be a unique thing,

(01:08:16):
unique cryptid, or it could beor it could be one of the myths
that already exist. Yeah, Idon't think I've got the imagination that come
up with a whole new cryptid.But if I could be a cryptid,
maybe the Fresno what do you callnightcrawler? You know, I just I'm
gonna have to google that. They'reso funny. They're so funny. Oh,

(01:08:40):
they literally just look at look likea freaking pair of white pants running
around. Well, you kind ofsurprise me with that question. I'd have
to give it some thought because I'msure there's a lot of cryptids I don't
know about. So except the majorones that we talked about, was there
anything else that you wanted to chitchat about as far as cryptics go.

(01:09:01):
Yeah, like it just like I'vesaid, it's just fun. It's it's
entertainment. Yeah, I think it'sa great time. It's always fun to
think, you know what if yeah, you know, not that I don't
want to run into one, youknow, in person? Yeah, right,
oh, thanks, As I don'twant to be the I don't want
to be the guy to say,yeah, I found the real thing right.

(01:09:24):
As a as a writer, it'sfun too too. It's almost like
writing like fan fiction almost because youhave these kind of established like ips.
In a way, there are thesemyths that are already established, and instead
of going in and saying like okay, I which a lot of my other
writing is like okay, I'm gonnawrite a basically a whole new universe because

(01:09:46):
this is a fantasy thing, andlike obviously there's everything's derivative, so like
there's a lot of like staples ofmagic systems and fantasy and blah blah blah
whatever. But like, I thinkit's a very fun and different process to
be able to be like, yes, if you like, like for someone
to come to the show and beable to listen to it and be like,
oh my god, wait I knowwhere that I know the myth where

(01:10:10):
that character kind of comes from.That's really cool And like I've just I've
always liked that angle a bit asas a writer. It's like a connection
that you share. Yeah. Yeah, Well, thank you so much Papa
for being on the show and uhfor chatting about cryptos with me. Maybe
if if people are interested, wecould do this again when the whole show's

(01:10:31):
over talking about some more stuff.Well, the pleasure has been mine,
believe me. This was so muchfun talking about one of my favorite subjects
and talking with one of my favoritepeople. Oh. Thanks, so keep
up the good work. Thank you. Yeah, if you find people found
this interesting, I'd love to comeback and talk some more. Yeah,

(01:10:54):
they'll also be hearing you again.I have not told you this, but
the Mayor does have lines an episodesix or seven, and so we'll have
to plan a time to record thoseanytime. Yeah, you will get to
hear my dad again surprising his roleas the Mayor. Maybe we'll make him
a Frisdo nightcrawler who knows it canbe fun. I need a new wardrobe.

(01:11:16):
But that's well. Thank you allfor listening to this bonus episode.
So if you're looking for new episodes, we will be returning with our regular
season with the final half of thefinal season of Cryptic Kape, the last

(01:11:38):
five episodes, which is crazy,but those will be coming back on October
thirteenth, and then we'll be backto you know, our regular every other
week schedule. Don't miss him.Be sure to subscribe to the podcast feed
and catch up if if you haven'tyet, or go back and binche listened
to the old episodes if you wantto, because the next five are it's

(01:12:00):
going to be a doozy Okay,I wait, it should be fun.
Thanks again, Vicki. It wasa lot of fun, real pleasure to
do this with you, So goodbyeto you and goodbye to all the listeners.
We'll see you folks next time.Bye bye,