January 2, 2024 • 30 mins
On today's show we speak with Adam and Cole from Coinos.io
Big believers in Bitcoin and a key player in fostering global Bitcoin adoption. Coinos is one of the Bitcoinization leaders with having 300+ businesses worldwide using their platform to accept Bitcoin Lightning payments.
Coinos is The EASIEST way to get started with #bitcoin with Free and open source code and Instant payments using the lightning network
Adam is a software engineer who believes that the adoption of sound money will drive global prosperity. Cole is a driven individual with a passion for freedom. He came across bitcoin in 2016 and studied it in depth. Now he wants to introduce the lightning network to as many users as possible.
For listener’s interested in learning more you can go to https://coinos.io/ to sign up today to reach out to the team.
Big believers in Bitcoin and a key player in fostering global Bitcoin adoption. Coinos is one of the Bitcoinization leaders with having 300+ businesses worldwide using their platform to accept Bitcoin Lightning payments.
Coinos is The EASIEST way to get started with #bitcoin with Free and open source code and Instant payments using the lightning network
Adam is a software engineer who believes that the adoption of sound money will drive global prosperity. Cole is a driven individual with a passion for freedom. He came across bitcoin in 2016 and studied it in depth. Now he wants to introduce the lightning network to as many users as possible.
For listener’s interested in learning more you can go to https://coinos.io/ to sign up today to reach out to the team.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to today's edition of Cryptocorner atInvestorideas dot com news on what's driving the
cryptocurrency market. Well, welcome tothe show, Adam and Cole. For
listeners that aren't familiar with coinos,can you talk of us about how you
started in the crypto space and bitcoinspace and how you came up with the
(00:21):
concept of coinos. Yeah, coinos, I guess is going on more than
ten years old now. I gotinto bitcoin in twenty eleven and just got
really excited about the whole idea ofit. After I convinced myself that it
was the real deal, and Imoved to Vancouver from Edmonton in twenty twelve
(00:47):
and I started a bitcoin meetup group, and so a bunch of people were
just meeting up regularly discussing bitcoin,trying to figure it out, what the
implications are for the world and allthat. And one of the ways we
thought would be effective to get themessage out let people know about it is
(01:10):
to start getting merchant adoption so thatpeople could see that bitcoin's not just a
Ponzi scheme or an investment on theInternet that people are putting money into,
but it's a real kind of paymenttechnology started talking to business owners and seeing
if they would be willing to tryaccepting bitcoin for a payment for their goods
(01:34):
and services, and coinoss was justa simple tool back then for people to
put in their bitcoin address and thenenter the sale amount for whatever it was
they're selling, to enter that indollars, and then coinss would convert that
to the equivalent amount in bitcoin bylooking up the exchange rate, and then
(01:59):
it would record all the transactions youreceive as a business owner. So if
someone was paying you for a coffeeor a muffin, or you're running a
restaurant and someone wanted to come inand pay with bitcoin, you would punch
it into coinoss, they would sendthe payment to your address, and it
would tell you in dollar terms whatyou received and then keep track of all
(02:22):
that for accounting, and it's justkind of evolved since then. It has.
In twenty eighteen, we added supportfor the Lightning Network, which is
a new layer of Bitcoin that isfaster and cheaper, so you don't have
to wait for those ten minute blockconfirmations for the money to settle, and
(02:43):
the fees are a lot cheaper onthe Lightning Network. There on the order
of fractions of ascent, and soyeah, just in the last couple of
years, I teamed up with Coaland we've been just trying to get more
and more merchants accepting bitcoin payment,primarily in Vancouver. We've been going around
(03:04):
here because that's where we're based,or I'm based in vent Curricles and Whistler,
but pretty close by. But wedo have places all over the world
starting to use it. So there'sa big contingent done in Brazil that are
using it to take payments there,and you know, we're starting to see
places pop up all over the placethat are using it to take bitcoin.
(03:25):
Tony doctor our listeners about the LightningNetwork and how that's changed the adoption of
basically using bitcoin is payment in mostplaces. And you know, some of
the differences between maybe Lightning Network andLiquid Network and a few of the others
that are maybe comparable or competitors.Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah,
(03:46):
So the difference between like Lightning theLightning Network has been an amazing you could
call it an upgrade, but insteadof using the word upgrade, I would
say it's it's an addition to Bigcoin'suse case. So you know, with
the Lightning Network, like Adam wouldsay it's it's it makes transactions instant with
virtually no fees. And people askme like, what is a lightning network?
(04:10):
What is it? What it islike in a dumb down kind of
what it is dumb down is asit's not on the blockchain, it's a
layer two network for Bitcoin, butit's not on the blockchain. So if
I had my way, I wouldonly ever transact on lightning and not use
(04:30):
normal on chain Bitcoin. Using lightningis still using Bitcoin, and it's more
private because it's nodes interacting with othernodes. So for example, if I
have a node, a lightning node, and you, Kelli, you have
a lightning node, you and mecan do transactions to each other instantly across
the world for virtually no fees.You set the fee on your own node.
(04:55):
Now, for us, to avoidgoing to complicate the implications if everyone
happened to run their own node,we suggest people use wallets such as ours,
and there's many others out there aswell. And if you use a
wallet like ours, then you're basicallyusing our node to interact with other nodes.
(05:15):
You're using our node to interact withother Lightning wallets. So someone else
could have a different Lightning wallet suchas Moon or something like that, and
you would be using Moon's node,or if you use a different Lightning wallet,
you're using their node and it preventsit avoids you having to create your
own node. And that's how Lightningnetwork is scalable right now, and that's
(05:36):
how it is going to scale evenbigger. We were in close. We
have our channels, our Lightning channels, which we have our Lightning channels open
with the biggest lightning wallet providers inthe world. So that means if you
have a coin oss wallet, youcan pretty much do lightning transaction with all
(06:00):
of the biggest the biggest names inthe lightning wallet space. And then Liquid
Network is Liquid network is a layertwo of bitcoin and the Liquid network is
on the blockchain itself. So whenyou transact on the liquid network, it's
an amazing thing to have as well, but it's not it doesn't work the
(06:23):
same as lightning. Lightning Network operateswith nodes and channels and not on the
blockchain, but Liquid Network is onthe blockchain, so it's basically liquid bitcoin
transferring way faster with almost no fees. And our classic, our version one
of coin offs which is classic dotcoin off dot io. We an interoperability,
(06:45):
but Lightning, on chain, Bitcoin, and liquid all three and you
can swap in between one. Wetake care of that slop for you,
so you don't need to go intoyour own settings and select which one you
want to walk to. If youhave one hundred dollars in your coin oss
wallet and you scan someone else's QRcode, whether they have an on chain
(07:08):
bitcoin wallet address or a lightning walletaddress, coin oss will detect what kind
of wallet they have and that andso that's where we would do the swap
for you from on chain Bitcoin tolightning bitcoin, so you don't need to
deal with the complications of that either. But in a nutshell, that's that's
what I would say. The biggestimprovements are Lightning. The lightning network is
(07:30):
in general is at The lightning networkcapacity is at an all time high right
now, right in this moment,I don't know if it's an all time
high, but the past couple ofweeks it has reached an all time high,
and last year the Lightning network wasstill reaching all time high. It's
a lightning network capacity even during abear market of bitcoin. So we have
(07:53):
seen all three of us have seenthe evidence that even when bitcoin is on
a downtrend, or even when coin'sprice is low, the lightning network capacity
keeps growing. That's a very goodsign for user adoption, and that's what
enables us to make it more adopt, to make it more and that's what
(08:15):
enables us to make it more usablefor mergans and for people who walk into
coffee shops and they don't want towait half an hour for three confirmations of
the bitcoin on chain transactions. Theywant instant, just like the owner wants
an instant transaction. You have sucha user friendly and easy to set up
(08:35):
product for everyone. So can youkind of have seen through your website and
everything, and we can talk aboutwhere everyone can find this later in your
videos, but can you just walkus through how the setup for a coin
ass wallet and you know basically howsimple and user friendly and easy it is
to join. Yeah, so tojoin it is as easy as typing in
(08:56):
on any browser. Coin off dotio, c I, n OS dot
io. You don't even need toput www dot We've made it as easy
and seamless as possible. You goto coin us dot io and then you
press the big black button that ison the home screen. Sorry, that
(09:16):
is on the home page. Itsays start in seconds. You press that
button, it brings you to asign up page, a username and password.
We don't even ask you for youremail because we understand the value of
privacy and we know that people,we know that other users value that as
well. So we can also autogenerate your username for you to make it
(09:37):
an even faster process, and youcan change your username later at any point.
But even if you want to makeyour own user name and your own
password, the whole process from startto finish of creating an account, I
would say, can take ten tofifteen seconds. We were actually on and
we were talking with Matt O'Dell tothose who are in the big space,
(10:00):
and he's confident that he can makea coin of swallet in less than ten
seconds and then once you yeah,yeah, So we were happy to hear
Matt O'Dell's opinion be on our sidewith that. That was cool. So
after you make an account, thenyou know you can automatically start receiving and
send bitcoin on chain payments or lightningon chain or sorry or lightning payments.
(10:24):
So as far as your lower feesand that whole process goes. Can you
can you talk us about how youguys are able to offer that comparage some
of the other like competitors out there. Yeah, so we don't We don't
have any fees to create an accountand to receive money into the account.
You can receive I call us inon chain, Bitcoin or Lightning, and
(10:46):
then once you go to make itwithdrawal, we record behind the scenes of
what network the funds came in on. So if your funds were deposited over
Lightning and you put in a don'tknow a thousand dollars Canadian worth of bitcline
over the Lightning network, then youget a credit in your account. It's
(11:09):
not gonna be visible to you,but it's it's in our database that you
have a zero point one percent ofthat is going to be credited to cover
withdrawal fees. So if you depositover Lightning and then withdrawal over Lightning,
you can withdraw your full balance thatthousand dollars for free because that credit will
(11:33):
be applied because you're withdrawing over thesame network that you've deposited on. But
if you deposit a thousand on Lightningand then you try to withdraw it to
an on chain Bitcoin address, thenthat zero point one percent Lightning credit won't
apply in that case, and soyou will be paying zero point one percent
(11:56):
to us to convert the Lightning signto on chain funds. So that's where
the fees come in, is whenyou're going between Lightning to on chain bitcoin
or vice versa. But if you'rejust using coin us to receive, like
receive over one network and send outover the same network, then that's going
(12:16):
to be free. The only feethat comes into play there is the network
fee that is paid to like thewell in the case of an on chain
payment, it's paid to the bitcoinminors, and that's a fee that you
can set yourself. There's a dropdown where you can choose whether you want
(12:37):
your transaction to confirm like really fast, like within the next block, or
if you're okay to weight and youwant to set a lower fee, then
it'll let you weight basically up toforty blocks. So yeah, you decide
what fee to pay there. Andwith Lightning, if you're trying to pay
a node that we're not directly connectedto one that we have to you know,
(13:01):
route the payments through the Lightning network. Then depending on the route that
it takes, there's going to bea fee there, but it'll be really
small station stuff yet. So rightnow, it's just a free app and
it's open source, so anyone canrun the coinoss code on their own server.
You don't have to use it atour website. You could run it
(13:24):
at home. You could put itat your own domain. You can take
the code and modify all the brandingand the look and feel, kind of
like posting your own WordPress blog orsomething. If you wanted to run your
own coinoss instance. There's your missionstatement at current I think definitely our listeners
would love to hear that. So, yeah, that's our We totally were
(13:46):
big believers in it because we understandlike the basics of market cycles. So
the investment part of it is abig motivator of course, right and you
know we're not here us for priceincrease going on up. We're here for
the technology behind it as well,and that's that's our motivation. We know
that the more adopted we make it, it's going to bring more users into
(14:09):
the bitcoin space, bitcoin and lightningand liquid space, and it's just going
to drive more adoption into bitcoin andI've onboarded many people onto the bitcoin network.
Onboarded as in, like I've orangepills many people into buying sizeable,
medium size amounts of bitcoin. Andthat's from showing them that, like,
(14:31):
hey, guys, look, youcan spend it here. You can spend
it there. You can go toa butcher shop, you can get your
haircut, you can go to multipledifferent kinds of restaurants. You can get
your boat repaired, you can getyou can rent an exotic car, you
can get your windows changed. Like, there's so many different things you can
do with pay with bitcoin without needingvisa as a middleman. I mean,
(14:56):
it's okay. The fact that wedo have the the bitcoin visa cards today
that we can use, I thinkthat's great for overall adoption, but to
not need visa is an even biggerstep towards adoption because a lot of people
value privacy and so those are That'sa big part of our motivation area.
(15:18):
And I know where it's going.With the lightning network capacity and the fact
that bitcoin's hash rates kept reaching alltime highs even during the twenty twenty two
bear market, and even right now, the bitcoin hash rate is increasing,
so the market does not need tobe going up for Bitcoin network and the
(15:39):
Lightning network to increase in strength andsecurity. So I'm very grateful for those
reasons. When you talk about thatyou have an open source do you have
a lot of different other like technicians, Are anyone that's helping you develop within
the code and of things for youguys as well, or is that just
free to use for them to download. Yeah. Over the years, We've
(16:02):
had a number of different contributors,and I've had other contractors in the past
that I hired to help build thecode to where it is today. I'm
the main developer still and lately it'smostly just been me plugging away at it.
But yeah, we do have otherpeople using it in other countries and
(16:25):
who are starting to download it andset it up on their own servers.
So I'm consulting with a few differentpeople to get them their own coinoss influences.
And then the idea is, yeah, at some point they'll be able
to contribute back. So if theyhave new features that they want to develop
that are specific to their region orto their customer base, then they'll be
(16:48):
running like a fork of our code. And then if they make improvements or
hire people to develop that. Thenit all comes back like we can can
choose you know, some of thoseimprovements that we want to bring back into
coin OFSS. That's the beauty ofopen sources that you get people from all
(17:10):
over the world developing things and youcan share and developed, you know,
better products where everyone's and a bigproponent of open source software. You have
the coinos all over the world andyou're being adopted in lots of different places.
Obviously you're based in Vancouver. Canyou talk to us about some of
(17:30):
the differences of what you're seeing,like you know, home base versus I
know obviously you know in Miami isa big adoption area. What are some
of the statistics that are coming outof BC I'd be curious about. And
then what are you seeing in someof the other places. One thing I
can mention is, like the differencebetween here in Vancouver and down in Brazil
(17:52):
is just the method that we're usingis a little bit different for people to
take payments, and like the merchantsthe way they use the app is a
bit different. So here we've beenencouraging most merchants to just have a QR
code, print it off on likea sticker, and then customers will go
(18:14):
in and scan that sticker and ittakes them to the merchant's coin oss profile
page. So every coin oss userhas a user name, and if you
go to coin asso, slash thatuser name, like in my case it's
coin ons do io slash atom wouldtake you to my page and the customer
(18:37):
that's visiting that page will see abutton to pay the merchant, so they
can click pay and then enter inthe amount they want to send, and
then there's an option to add atip. In some cases, merchants can
decide whether they want to prompt fora tip or not. A lot of
them will ask if you want toadd ten percent or twenty percent. There's
(18:57):
different buttons that you can use yourtip, and then the merchant or the
customer will just send the funds andthe merchant will In our case in Vancouver,
the merchants will have a printer thatwe give them that prints out a
little piece of paper with the amountthat they received in dollars. So they'll
(19:18):
see this piece of paper come outthat says, oh, you just received
a payment for six dollars, andthat's how they know that they got paid.
But down in Brazil, most ofthe merchants there are using just either
their phone or they have a tabletand they're doing the payment on that device.
(19:41):
So instead of the customer coming andscanning a sticker, the merchant is
going to initiate that payment by bringingup their tablet and then typing the amount
in there and then getting the customerto scan the QR code and pay it
that way. How has it beenthe feedback from merchants like setting up in
the store that I'm just curious fromlike a Vancouver perspective, has it been
(20:06):
easy to get whether it's like acoffee shop or a restaurant or whatever,
to say yes, we're definitely interestedin that, or has it been a
bit of a technology humped to getover for them to adopt new ideas?
Yeah, yeah, sure yeah Somost I would say ninety percent of the
(20:27):
people we approach are no coiners.So a no coiner for those listening who
don't know what that means, thatjust means someone who who doesn't have Eddie
Bicklin and they're not invested in it. So we do get me and Adam
both way. We get lots ofpractice with how to talk to these kinds
of people, and the most effectivething to say, I mean, just
(20:48):
in my personal opinion and what's beenworking for us. The most effective thing
to say to the merchants is thatwe guarantee you more sales. And we
can literally give that guarantee because wegive your business if you want to use
us to accept backcoin payments, wegive your business free marketing, slash promotion
on all of our social medias.We have map websites such as btcmap dot
(21:15):
org. That's there's other web there'sother map websites that we post the businesses
on, but the one that wefind is the most effective is btcmap dot
org. So when we do thingslike this, and also we promote the
businesses in our telegram group chats Telegramis phenomenal for good quality engagement from the
Vancouver big Coin community and in othercities in other countries that are using us
(21:38):
as well. Like I'm promoting ourstuff in other countries that have communities using
our business as well. And sowhen we tell the business owners these points
and we let them know that oh, that person down the street is using
us, and that other person afew blocks north of you is using it,
and then another person five blocks southof you is using it, and
(21:59):
you give them that social proof ofthe fact that other people are using it.
That helps a lot because it givesthem confidence that is actually working.
Some of them will even be friendswith some of these other business owners near
them, and then they call themand they'll be like, hey, how's
it working out? How's it workingout? So the key to us getting
you know, certain areas of Vancouvermore bitcoin eyes, with more merchant adoptionists,
(22:25):
to get them talking to each otherand get companies or sorta get businesses
in the same area, because thenthey it's easier for them to talk to
each other and get each other's feedback. We'll move back into bitcoin. You
guys are obviously big followers and believersin it. So you know, what,
what are you guys kind of forecastingor what do you see for twenty
(22:45):
twenty four? What are you hopingto see for twenty twenty four and the
bitcoin story? Yeah, I'm hopingto see more adoption, newtech coming out
that makes bitcoin scale better. SoLightning has done a really good job so
far, but we're still seeing highfees on the blockchain right now, and
(23:10):
Lightning can't scale forever. So ifif we had a huge explosion of new
users and new companies all wanting touse bitcoin, it would probably be a
little bit messy and expensive right now, and things might not work super smoothly.
So looking forward to seeing people comeup with, you know, ways
to make even lightning more efficient,have less of a footprint on the you
(23:36):
know, on chain fees, otherlayer twos for bitcoin that could help keep
the cost low for those fees.And then I guess, yeah, the
the institutional level adoption, like wemight see the ETFs get approved, and
that'll just make it a lot easierfor big companies and funds to invest capital
(24:00):
into bitcoin. So we could seea huge price spike if if some of
those get approved, because it'll justbe a lot easier for these big players
to just you know, click abutton and say okay, buy some of
that ets versus right now for themto try to acquire a position in bitcoin.
(24:22):
If they're trying to do it youknow, self custodially where they have
their own wallet and keep the bitcoinin their own account where they have the
keys to it, then there's allkinds of risks and issues with that when
you're doing it at like a corporatelevel, So just giving them the you
know, the entry way to beable to buy large amounts of bitcoin and
(24:45):
have a lot of capital flow intoit. Pretty much everything Adam said was
being on there with you know theEGF, Like we're excited about EACHF being
approved, and it's going to justbring a big inflow of all these old
school investors, right and and youknow black Rock, Instadelity and Grade Scale,
Arc and Vast, like the biggestcompanies who are applying for the ETF,
(25:08):
they have tons of old school peoplein their investment in their companies.
So uh, they those people aregoing to now have an easy way to
invest in bitcoin. I myself,I'm not gonna uh put my money into
ets right, I'd better have myI'd better have my bitcoin and cold storage,
right, I mean, Adam teachpeople about cold storage. Yes we
(25:29):
are. We are a custodia wallet, no problem, but we we do
teach people about cystoic self custody andwe teach people about cold storage. So
uh, but I know that theETF news is going to bring a big
inflow into Bigcoin, a big inflowof money. And when people realize the
difference between bitcoin and other, youknow, cryptocurrencies. When people realize that
(25:52):
difference, they are more so,they're more they're more inclined to get into
it. Right, And I'm veryplausitive about the future. I can't say
I know what's going to happen.There's no guarantees of anything, obviously except
death and taxes obviously, but webut we are very very confident about the
(26:15):
future, long term and short term. A big point, YEA. And
for your while, do you havea non custodial option as well or is
it just a custodial or is thatsomething that you might add in in the
future. We used to have anon cyst Well, we do have a
non custodial option in the classic coinosclassic dot coin ost io, which was
(26:37):
sort of the previous incarnation of thewallet before we rewrote it last year or
a couple of years ago. Butwe're we're going to be adding that back
in. So yeah, it'll becoming soon to the current version of coinos
where you'll be able to back upyour twelve word seed phreeze and that'll be
your keys that we don't store onour server anywhere, and the way it'll
(27:00):
work is once your balance hits acertain threshold in the custodial wallet, which
gives you the ability to use theLightning network really seamlessly. Once you hit
a certain balance there, you'll beable to set up in your account settings
what that threshold is and how muchyou want to move to your own self
(27:22):
custodial wallet. And that could bedone on a you know, when you
hit a certain balance in your account, or it could be something where it's
just every twenty four hours you withdrawx percentage of your balance to your cold
storage. And if you don't haveor if you do have your own cold
(27:44):
storage, like you have a hardwarewallet or a paper wallet or something,
and you want to put in yourown address from an external wallet, we'll
support that as well. Or ifyou just want to move to another Lightning
address or another Lightning wallet by anotherprovide or something, or your own node
or something, we'll let you putthat in. So that's something I'm working
(28:04):
on right now. Oh that's exciting. So for merchants that are interested after
hearing the podcast that they want tosign up, where can they go to
connect with you? How does thatwork? If someone's just looking for the
wallet, you mentioned that they canjust go to coinous dot io where can
(28:25):
they find you? Also on socialmedia and you mentioned the bitcoin group in
Vancouver. You can give some informationon all those for people to reach out
to you. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah sure yeah. On
the bottom of our homepage coin offsio, you can see all of our
links, our Twitter, Telegram,and our link tree. Our link tree
(28:47):
is basically l I n K,t R dot ee and slash coinost io
and all those links to all ofour social media are on the bottom of
our homepage. Yeah. So Telegram, we highly recommend people join our Telegram
group, our coin off Telegram groupif you can ask a lot of troubleshooting
questions there as well, and weare very prompt that helping people out in
(29:10):
answering their questions there. Just endoff with with saying, yeah, we
have over three hundred and seventy fivebusinesses worldwide. Anyone is able to use
us as long as bitcoin is legalin their country. Well, thank you
so much, Cool and Adam forjoining the show, And I hope everyone
goes and joins your Telegram group andfollows you guys on news and gets the
(29:32):
coin of Walid. That does itfor Today's Crypto Corner. If you would
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(29:56):
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Welcome to today's edition of Cryptocorner atInvestorideas dot com news on what's driving the
cryptocurrency market. Well, welcome tothe show, Adam and Cole. For
listeners that aren't familiar with coinos,can you talk of us about how you
started in the crypto space and bitcoinspace and how you came up with the
(00:21):
concept of coinos. Yeah, coinos, I guess is going on more than
ten years old now. I gotinto bitcoin in twenty eleven and just got
really excited about the whole idea ofit. After I convinced myself that it
was the real deal, and Imoved to Vancouver from Edmonton in twenty twelve
(00:47):
and I started a bitcoin meetup group, and so a bunch of people were
just meeting up regularly discussing bitcoin,trying to figure it out, what the
implications are for the world and allthat. And one of the ways we
thought would be effective to get themessage out let people know about it is
(01:10):
to start getting merchant adoption so thatpeople could see that bitcoin's not just a
Ponzi scheme or an investment on theInternet that people are putting money into,
but it's a real kind of paymenttechnology started talking to business owners and seeing
if they would be willing to tryaccepting bitcoin for a payment for their goods
(01:34):
and services, and coinoss was justa simple tool back then for people to
put in their bitcoin address and thenenter the sale amount for whatever it was
they're selling, to enter that indollars, and then coinss would convert that
to the equivalent amount in bitcoin bylooking up the exchange rate, and then
(01:59):
it would record all the transactions youreceive as a business owner. So if
someone was paying you for a coffeeor a muffin, or you're running a
restaurant and someone wanted to come inand pay with bitcoin, you would punch
it into coinoss, they would sendthe payment to your address, and it
would tell you in dollar terms whatyou received and then keep track of all
(02:22):
that for accounting, and it's justkind of evolved since then. It has.
In twenty eighteen, we added supportfor the Lightning Network, which is
a new layer of Bitcoin that isfaster and cheaper, so you don't have
to wait for those ten minute blockconfirmations for the money to settle, and
(02:43):
the fees are a lot cheaper onthe Lightning Network. There on the order
of fractions of ascent, and soyeah, just in the last couple of
years, I teamed up with Coaland we've been just trying to get more
and more merchants accepting bitcoin payment,primarily in Vancouver. We've been going around
(03:04):
here because that's where we're based,or I'm based in vent Curricles and Whistler,
but pretty close by. But wedo have places all over the world
starting to use it. So there'sa big contingent done in Brazil that are
using it to take payments there,and you know, we're starting to see
places pop up all over the placethat are using it to take bitcoin.
(03:25):
Tony doctor our listeners about the LightningNetwork and how that's changed the adoption of
basically using bitcoin is payment in mostplaces. And you know, some of
the differences between maybe Lightning Network andLiquid Network and a few of the others
that are maybe comparable or competitors.Yeah, yeah, sure, yeah,
(03:46):
So the difference between like Lightning theLightning Network has been an amazing you could
call it an upgrade, but insteadof using the word upgrade, I would
say it's it's an addition to Bigcoin'suse case. So you know, with
the Lightning Network, like Adam wouldsay it's it's it makes transactions instant with
virtually no fees. And people askme like, what is a lightning network?
(04:10):
What is it? What it islike in a dumb down kind of
what it is dumb down is asit's not on the blockchain, it's a
layer two network for Bitcoin, butit's not on the blockchain. So if
I had my way, I wouldonly ever transact on lightning and not use
(04:30):
normal on chain Bitcoin. Using lightningis still using Bitcoin, and it's more
private because it's nodes interacting with othernodes. So for example, if I
have a node, a lightning node, and you, Kelli, you have
a lightning node, you and mecan do transactions to each other instantly across
the world for virtually no fees.You set the fee on your own node.
(04:55):
Now, for us, to avoidgoing to complicate the implications if everyone
happened to run their own node,we suggest people use wallets such as ours,
and there's many others out there aswell. And if you use a
wallet like ours, then you're basicallyusing our node to interact with other nodes.
(05:15):
You're using our node to interact withother Lightning wallets. So someone else
could have a different Lightning wallet suchas Moon or something like that, and
you would be using Moon's node,or if you use a different Lightning wallet,
you're using their node and it preventsit avoids you having to create your
own node. And that's how Lightningnetwork is scalable right now, and that's
(05:36):
how it is going to scale evenbigger. We were in close. We
have our channels, our Lightning channels, which we have our Lightning channels open
with the biggest lightning wallet providers inthe world. So that means if you
have a coin oss wallet, youcan pretty much do lightning transaction with all
(06:00):
of the biggest the biggest names inthe lightning wallet space. And then Liquid
Network is Liquid network is a layertwo of bitcoin and the Liquid network is
on the blockchain itself. So whenyou transact on the liquid network, it's
an amazing thing to have as well, but it's not it doesn't work the
(06:23):
same as lightning. Lightning Network operateswith nodes and channels and not on the
blockchain, but Liquid Network is onthe blockchain, so it's basically liquid bitcoin
transferring way faster with almost no fees. And our classic, our version one
of coin offs which is classic dotcoin off dot io. We an interoperability,
(06:45):
but Lightning, on chain, Bitcoin, and liquid all three and you
can swap in between one. Wetake care of that slop for you,
so you don't need to go intoyour own settings and select which one you
want to walk to. If youhave one hundred dollars in your coin oss
wallet and you scan someone else's QRcode, whether they have an on chain
(07:08):
bitcoin wallet address or a lightning walletaddress, coin oss will detect what kind
of wallet they have and that andso that's where we would do the swap
for you from on chain Bitcoin tolightning bitcoin, so you don't need to
deal with the complications of that either. But in a nutshell, that's that's
what I would say. The biggestimprovements are Lightning. The lightning network is
(07:30):
in general is at The lightning networkcapacity is at an all time high right
now, right in this moment,I don't know if it's an all time
high, but the past couple ofweeks it has reached an all time high,
and last year the Lightning network wasstill reaching all time high. It's
a lightning network capacity even during abear market of bitcoin. So we have
(07:53):
seen all three of us have seenthe evidence that even when bitcoin is on
a downtrend, or even when coin'sprice is low, the lightning network capacity
keeps growing. That's a very goodsign for user adoption, and that's what
enables us to make it more adopt, to make it more and that's what
(08:15):
enables us to make it more usablefor mergans and for people who walk into
coffee shops and they don't want towait half an hour for three confirmations of
the bitcoin on chain transactions. Theywant instant, just like the owner wants
an instant transaction. You have sucha user friendly and easy to set up
(08:35):
product for everyone. So can youkind of have seen through your website and
everything, and we can talk aboutwhere everyone can find this later in your
videos, but can you just walkus through how the setup for a coin
ass wallet and you know basically howsimple and user friendly and easy it is
to join. Yeah, so tojoin it is as easy as typing in
(08:56):
on any browser. Coin off dotio, c I, n OS dot
io. You don't even need toput www dot We've made it as easy
and seamless as possible. You goto coin us dot io and then you
press the big black button that ison the home screen. Sorry, that
(09:16):
is on the home page. Itsays start in seconds. You press that
button, it brings you to asign up page, a username and password.
We don't even ask you for youremail because we understand the value of
privacy and we know that people,we know that other users value that as
well. So we can also autogenerate your username for you to make it
(09:37):
an even faster process, and youcan change your username later at any point.
But even if you want to makeyour own user name and your own
password, the whole process from startto finish of creating an account, I
would say, can take ten tofifteen seconds. We were actually on and
we were talking with Matt O'Dell tothose who are in the big space,
(10:00):
and he's confident that he can makea coin of swallet in less than ten
seconds and then once you yeah,yeah, So we were happy to hear
Matt O'Dell's opinion be on our sidewith that. That was cool. So
after you make an account, thenyou know you can automatically start receiving and
send bitcoin on chain payments or lightningon chain or sorry or lightning payments.
(10:24):
So as far as your lower feesand that whole process goes. Can you
can you talk us about how youguys are able to offer that comparage some
of the other like competitors out there. Yeah, so we don't We don't
have any fees to create an accountand to receive money into the account.
You can receive I call us inon chain, Bitcoin or Lightning, and
(10:46):
then once you go to make itwithdrawal, we record behind the scenes of
what network the funds came in on. So if your funds were deposited over
Lightning and you put in a don'tknow a thousand dollars Canadian worth of bitcline
over the Lightning network, then youget a credit in your account. It's
(11:09):
not gonna be visible to you,but it's it's in our database that you
have a zero point one percent ofthat is going to be credited to cover
withdrawal fees. So if you depositover Lightning and then withdrawal over Lightning,
you can withdraw your full balance thatthousand dollars for free because that credit will
(11:33):
be applied because you're withdrawing over thesame network that you've deposited on. But
if you deposit a thousand on Lightningand then you try to withdraw it to
an on chain Bitcoin address, thenthat zero point one percent Lightning credit won't
apply in that case, and soyou will be paying zero point one percent
(11:56):
to us to convert the Lightning signto on chain funds. So that's where
the fees come in, is whenyou're going between Lightning to on chain bitcoin
or vice versa. But if you'rejust using coin us to receive, like
receive over one network and send outover the same network, then that's going
(12:16):
to be free. The only feethat comes into play there is the network
fee that is paid to like thewell in the case of an on chain
payment, it's paid to the bitcoinminors, and that's a fee that you
can set yourself. There's a dropdown where you can choose whether you want
(12:37):
your transaction to confirm like really fast, like within the next block, or
if you're okay to weight and youwant to set a lower fee, then
it'll let you weight basically up toforty blocks. So yeah, you decide
what fee to pay there. Andwith Lightning, if you're trying to pay
a node that we're not directly connectedto one that we have to you know,
(13:01):
route the payments through the Lightning network. Then depending on the route that
it takes, there's going to bea fee there, but it'll be really
small station stuff yet. So rightnow, it's just a free app and
it's open source, so anyone canrun the coinoss code on their own server.
You don't have to use it atour website. You could run it
(13:24):
at home. You could put itat your own domain. You can take
the code and modify all the brandingand the look and feel, kind of
like posting your own WordPress blog orsomething. If you wanted to run your
own coinoss instance. There's your missionstatement at current I think definitely our listeners
would love to hear that. So, yeah, that's our We totally were
(13:46):
big believers in it because we understandlike the basics of market cycles. So
the investment part of it is abig motivator of course, right and you
know we're not here us for priceincrease going on up. We're here for
the technology behind it as well,and that's that's our motivation. We know
that the more adopted we make it, it's going to bring more users into
(14:09):
the bitcoin space, bitcoin and lightningand liquid space, and it's just going
to drive more adoption into bitcoin andI've onboarded many people onto the bitcoin network.
Onboarded as in, like I've orangepills many people into buying sizeable,
medium size amounts of bitcoin. Andthat's from showing them that, like,
(14:31):
hey, guys, look, youcan spend it here. You can spend
it there. You can go toa butcher shop, you can get your
haircut, you can go to multipledifferent kinds of restaurants. You can get
your boat repaired, you can getyou can rent an exotic car, you
can get your windows changed. Like, there's so many different things you can
do with pay with bitcoin without needingvisa as a middleman. I mean,
(14:56):
it's okay. The fact that wedo have the the bitcoin visa cards today
that we can use, I thinkthat's great for overall adoption, but to
not need visa is an even biggerstep towards adoption because a lot of people
value privacy and so those are That'sa big part of our motivation area.
(15:18):
And I know where it's going.With the lightning network capacity and the fact
that bitcoin's hash rates kept reaching alltime highs even during the twenty twenty two
bear market, and even right now, the bitcoin hash rate is increasing,
so the market does not need tobe going up for Bitcoin network and the
(15:39):
Lightning network to increase in strength andsecurity. So I'm very grateful for those
reasons. When you talk about thatyou have an open source do you have
a lot of different other like technicians, Are anyone that's helping you develop within
the code and of things for youguys as well, or is that just
free to use for them to download. Yeah. Over the years, We've
(16:02):
had a number of different contributors,and I've had other contractors in the past
that I hired to help build thecode to where it is today. I'm
the main developer still and lately it'smostly just been me plugging away at it.
But yeah, we do have otherpeople using it in other countries and
(16:25):
who are starting to download it andset it up on their own servers.
So I'm consulting with a few differentpeople to get them their own coinoss influences.
And then the idea is, yeah, at some point they'll be able
to contribute back. So if theyhave new features that they want to develop
that are specific to their region orto their customer base, then they'll be
(16:48):
running like a fork of our code. And then if they make improvements or
hire people to develop that. Thenit all comes back like we can can
choose you know, some of thoseimprovements that we want to bring back into
coin OFSS. That's the beauty ofopen sources that you get people from all
(17:10):
over the world developing things and youcan share and developed, you know,
better products where everyone's and a bigproponent of open source software. You have
the coinos all over the world andyou're being adopted in lots of different places.
Obviously you're based in Vancouver. Canyou talk to us about some of
(17:30):
the differences of what you're seeing,like you know, home base versus I
know obviously you know in Miami isa big adoption area. What are some
of the statistics that are coming outof BC I'd be curious about. And
then what are you seeing in someof the other places. One thing I
can mention is, like the differencebetween here in Vancouver and down in Brazil
(17:52):
is just the method that we're usingis a little bit different for people to
take payments, and like the merchantsthe way they use the app is a
bit different. So here we've beenencouraging most merchants to just have a QR
code, print it off on likea sticker, and then customers will go
(18:14):
in and scan that sticker and ittakes them to the merchant's coin oss profile
page. So every coin oss userhas a user name, and if you
go to coin asso, slash thatuser name, like in my case it's
coin ons do io slash atom wouldtake you to my page and the customer
(18:37):
that's visiting that page will see abutton to pay the merchant, so they
can click pay and then enter inthe amount they want to send, and
then there's an option to add atip. In some cases, merchants can
decide whether they want to prompt fora tip or not. A lot of
them will ask if you want toadd ten percent or twenty percent. There's
(18:57):
different buttons that you can use yourtip, and then the merchant or the
customer will just send the funds andthe merchant will In our case in Vancouver,
the merchants will have a printer thatwe give them that prints out a
little piece of paper with the amountthat they received in dollars. So they'll
(19:18):
see this piece of paper come outthat says, oh, you just received
a payment for six dollars, andthat's how they know that they got paid.
But down in Brazil, most ofthe merchants there are using just either
their phone or they have a tabletand they're doing the payment on that device.
(19:41):
So instead of the customer coming andscanning a sticker, the merchant is
going to initiate that payment by bringingup their tablet and then typing the amount
in there and then getting the customerto scan the QR code and pay it
that way. How has it beenthe feedback from merchants like setting up in
the store that I'm just curious fromlike a Vancouver perspective, has it been
(20:06):
easy to get whether it's like acoffee shop or a restaurant or whatever,
to say yes, we're definitely interestedin that, or has it been a
bit of a technology humped to getover for them to adopt new ideas?
Yeah, yeah, sure yeah Somost I would say ninety percent of the
(20:27):
people we approach are no coiners.So a no coiner for those listening who
don't know what that means, thatjust means someone who who doesn't have Eddie
Bicklin and they're not invested in it. So we do get me and Adam
both way. We get lots ofpractice with how to talk to these kinds
of people, and the most effectivething to say, I mean, just
(20:48):
in my personal opinion and what's beenworking for us. The most effective thing
to say to the merchants is thatwe guarantee you more sales. And we
can literally give that guarantee because wegive your business if you want to use
us to accept backcoin payments, wegive your business free marketing, slash promotion
on all of our social medias.We have map websites such as btcmap dot
(21:15):
org. That's there's other web there'sother map websites that we post the businesses
on, but the one that wefind is the most effective is btcmap dot
org. So when we do thingslike this, and also we promote the
businesses in our telegram group chats Telegramis phenomenal for good quality engagement from the
Vancouver big Coin community and in othercities in other countries that are using us
(21:38):
as well. Like I'm promoting ourstuff in other countries that have communities using
our business as well. And sowhen we tell the business owners these points
and we let them know that oh, that person down the street is using
us, and that other person afew blocks north of you is using it,
and then another person five blocks southof you is using it, and
(21:59):
you give them that social proof ofthe fact that other people are using it.
That helps a lot because it givesthem confidence that is actually working.
Some of them will even be friendswith some of these other business owners near
them, and then they call themand they'll be like, hey, how's
it working out? How's it workingout? So the key to us getting
you know, certain areas of Vancouvermore bitcoin eyes, with more merchant adoptionists,
(22:25):
to get them talking to each otherand get companies or sorta get businesses
in the same area, because thenthey it's easier for them to talk to
each other and get each other's feedback. We'll move back into bitcoin. You
guys are obviously big followers and believersin it. So you know, what,
what are you guys kind of forecastingor what do you see for twenty
(22:45):
twenty four? What are you hopingto see for twenty twenty four and the
bitcoin story? Yeah, I'm hopingto see more adoption, newtech coming out
that makes bitcoin scale better. SoLightning has done a really good job so
far, but we're still seeing highfees on the blockchain right now, and
(23:10):
Lightning can't scale forever. So ifif we had a huge explosion of new
users and new companies all wanting touse bitcoin, it would probably be a
little bit messy and expensive right now, and things might not work super smoothly.
So looking forward to seeing people comeup with, you know, ways
to make even lightning more efficient,have less of a footprint on the you
(23:36):
know, on chain fees, otherlayer twos for bitcoin that could help keep
the cost low for those fees.And then I guess, yeah, the
the institutional level adoption, like wemight see the ETFs get approved, and
that'll just make it a lot easierfor big companies and funds to invest capital
(24:00):
into bitcoin. So we could seea huge price spike if if some of
those get approved, because it'll justbe a lot easier for these big players
to just you know, click abutton and say okay, buy some of
that ets versus right now for themto try to acquire a position in bitcoin.
(24:22):
If they're trying to do it youknow, self custodially where they have
their own wallet and keep the bitcoinin their own account where they have the
keys to it, then there's allkinds of risks and issues with that when
you're doing it at like a corporatelevel, So just giving them the you
know, the entry way to beable to buy large amounts of bitcoin and
(24:45):
have a lot of capital flow intoit. Pretty much everything Adam said was
being on there with you know theEGF, Like we're excited about EACHF being
approved, and it's going to justbring a big inflow of all these old
school investors, right and and youknow black Rock, Instadelity and Grade Scale,
Arc and Vast, like the biggestcompanies who are applying for the ETF,
(25:08):
they have tons of old school peoplein their investment in their companies.
So uh, they those people aregoing to now have an easy way to
invest in bitcoin. I myself,I'm not gonna uh put my money into
ets right, I'd better have myI'd better have my bitcoin and cold storage,
right, I mean, Adam teachpeople about cold storage. Yes we
(25:29):
are. We are a custodia wallet, no problem, but we we do
teach people about cystoic self custody andwe teach people about cold storage. So
uh, but I know that theETF news is going to bring a big
inflow into Bigcoin, a big inflowof money. And when people realize the
difference between bitcoin and other, youknow, cryptocurrencies. When people realize that
(25:52):
difference, they are more so,they're more they're more inclined to get into
it. Right, And I'm veryplausitive about the future. I can't say
I know what's going to happen.There's no guarantees of anything, obviously except
death and taxes obviously, but webut we are very very confident about the
(26:15):
future, long term and short term. A big point, YEA. And
for your while, do you havea non custodial option as well or is
it just a custodial or is thatsomething that you might add in in the
future. We used to have anon cyst Well, we do have a
non custodial option in the classic coinosclassic dot coin ost io, which was
(26:37):
sort of the previous incarnation of thewallet before we rewrote it last year or
a couple of years ago. Butwe're we're going to be adding that back
in. So yeah, it'll becoming soon to the current version of coinos
where you'll be able to back upyour twelve word seed phreeze and that'll be
your keys that we don't store onour server anywhere, and the way it'll
(27:00):
work is once your balance hits acertain threshold in the custodial wallet, which
gives you the ability to use theLightning network really seamlessly. Once you hit
a certain balance there, you'll beable to set up in your account settings
what that threshold is and how muchyou want to move to your own self
(27:22):
custodial wallet. And that could bedone on a you know, when you
hit a certain balance in your account, or it could be something where it's
just every twenty four hours you withdrawx percentage of your balance to your cold
storage. And if you don't haveor if you do have your own cold
(27:44):
storage, like you have a hardwarewallet or a paper wallet or something,
and you want to put in yourown address from an external wallet, we'll
support that as well. Or ifyou just want to move to another Lightning
address or another Lightning wallet by anotherprovide or something, or your own node
or something, we'll let you putthat in. So that's something I'm working
(28:04):
on right now. Oh that's exciting. So for merchants that are interested after
hearing the podcast that they want tosign up, where can they go to
connect with you? How does thatwork? If someone's just looking for the
wallet, you mentioned that they canjust go to coinous dot io where can
(28:25):
they find you? Also on socialmedia and you mentioned the bitcoin group in
Vancouver. You can give some informationon all those for people to reach out
to you. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah sure yeah. On
the bottom of our homepage coin offsio, you can see all of our
links, our Twitter, Telegram,and our link tree. Our link tree
(28:47):
is basically l I n K,t R dot ee and slash coinost io
and all those links to all ofour social media are on the bottom of
our homepage. Yeah. So Telegram, we highly recommend people join our Telegram
group, our coin off Telegram groupif you can ask a lot of troubleshooting
questions there as well, and weare very prompt that helping people out in
(29:10):
answering their questions there. Just endoff with with saying, yeah, we
have over three hundred and seventy fivebusinesses worldwide. Anyone is able to use
us as long as bitcoin is legalin their country. Well, thank you
so much, Cool and Adam forjoining the show, And I hope everyone
goes and joins your Telegram group andfollows you guys on news and gets the
(29:32):
coin of Walid. That does itfor Today's Crypto Corner. If you would
like to be a guest or sponsorfor this podcast, contact Investorideas dot com.
Investor Ideas reminds all listeners to readour discreamers and disclosures on the investor
Ideas dot com website, and thispodcast is not endorsement to buy products,
services, or securities. Investors arereminded all investment involves risk and possible loss
(29:56):
and investment. To hear more InvestorIdeas dot com podcast, please visit investor
idias dot com, slash audio anda reminder. You can also hear our
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