September 3, 2025 • 45 mins
In the U.S., nearly one in five children are living with obesity, and over a quarter of adolescents aged twelve to nineteen are prediabetic. Shockingly, only two percent of children meet the daily recommended intake of fruits and vegetables, and over thirteen million children live in food insecure households. This means that school meals are often the most reliable and nutritious food they get each day. In this episode, we hear from three innovative chefs working in school nutrition who are transforming the school cafeteria. They share what goes into creating delicious and nutritious school lunch programs that set children up for success, even under tight budgets and strict guidelines. This is a must listen if you’re in school nutrition or are curious about school lunch programs.
In this episode you’ll hear:
1:20 – Why are school food programs so important?
3:30 – Chef Rebecca Polson’s story
4:20 – Chef Jason Hull’s story
6:15 – Chef Taylor Thompson’s story
8:30 – What criteria are used to create school lunch recipes?
12:10 – What is the National School Lunch Program in America?
16:00 – Scratch cooking, speed scratch cooking and heat & serve
21:35 – What are the chefs’ biggest challenges?
22:40 – Where do schools source their food?
30:30 – School food policy
31:45 – K-12 recipe development with Pacific Coast Producers
34:10 – Surprise favorite recipes for the kids
36:30 – Food tips for busy families
Thank you to our sponsor, Pacific Coast Producers.
References:
Credits:
Host - Dr. Sabrina Falquier, MD, CCMS, DipABLM
Sound and Editing - Will Crann
Executive Producer - Esther Garfin
©2025 Alternative Food Network Inc.
In this episode you’ll hear:
1:20 – Why are school food programs so important?
3:30 – Chef Rebecca Polson’s story
4:20 – Chef Jason Hull’s story
6:15 – Chef Taylor Thompson’s story
8:30 – What criteria are used to create school lunch recipes?
12:10 – What is the National School Lunch Program in America?
16:00 – Scratch cooking, speed scratch cooking and heat & serve
21:35 – What are the chefs’ biggest challenges?
22:40 – Where do schools source their food?
30:30 – School food policy
31:45 – K-12 recipe development with Pacific Coast Producers
34:10 – Surprise favorite recipes for the kids
36:30 – Food tips for busy families
Thank you to our sponsor, Pacific Coast Producers.
References:
Credits:
Host - Dr. Sabrina Falquier, MD, CCMS, DipABLM
Sound and Editing - Will Crann
Executive Producer - Esther Garfin
©2025 Alternative Food Network Inc.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
When we cut it into sticks versus coins, we see
that the kids take it more and better and faster.
So I think the way it's exposed is important. Matching
up with different dippers and different sauces and whatever the
vegetable or the fruit is. I think the consistency is
the main thing. Don't give up on it, and the
kids will gravitate towards it.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to culinary Medicine Recipe. I'm so happy you're here.
I'm your host, Doctor Sabrina Falke. I was a primary
care doctor for sixteen years and went to school for
four years to specialize in culinary medicine. In this work,
I get to combine my passionate expertise in both medicine
and food to teach people about food is medicine and
to empower them to understand what ingredients optimize health and
(00:45):
also how to cook those ingredients to make delicious meals.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
On the show, I interviewed.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Top chefs, doctors, healthcare visionaries, and food service professionals who
are making great strides in the field of culinary medicine.
Join me as we continue to explore the amazing world
of he andary medicine, where I will empower you to
make changes to your health and wellness with great food
right away. Welcome to today's show. I'd like to thank
(01:10):
the sponsor of this episode, Pacific Coast Producers. Today we're
diving into a topic that is as critical as it
is urgent, school lunches. But first, let's take a moment
to understand why this conversation matters so deeply. Here in
the US, Nearly one in five children are living with obesity,
over a quarter of adolescents age twelve to nineteen are
now pre diabetic, and shockingly, only two percent of children
(01:34):
meet the daily recommended intake of.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Fruits and vegetables.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And beyond individual health, there's the issue of access. Over
thirteen million children live in food insecure households, meaning that
school meals are often the most reliable and nutritious food
they get each day, and sometimes the only food they get.
So how do we turn these challenges into change by
hearing directly from the leaders innovating inside school kitchens. Today,
(01:58):
I'm honored to welcome three in pre guests. They are chefs, educators,
and advocates who are transforming the school food landscape with passion,
purpose and creativity. First, we have Chef Taylor Thompson, Assistant
Director of School Nutrition Services at Northeast ISD in San Antonio, Texas.
Taylor's culinary journey took him from restaurants and catering into
(02:19):
school kitchens, where he's been instrumental in expanding scratch made
offering and creating meals that kids love and parents can trust.
Next joining us from Northern California is Chef Jason Hall.
He's a director of Culinary Services and executive chef at
Marin County Day School. Jason leads a vibrant seed to
table program grounded in seasonal ingredients and sustainability. A longtime
(02:42):
advocate for child health and food systems change, Jason brings
decades of high level culinary experience to the school lunch trade.
And last, but not least, we're joined by Chef Rebecca Poulson,
a national K through twelve culinary trainer and consultant who
has worked with school districts across the country from James
Beard Restaurants to district test kitchens. Rebecca brings her expertise, energy,
(03:06):
and innovation to every recipe she touches, helping schools make
meals that are chef driven culturally relevant and kid approved. Together,
we'll talk about the creative and logistical realities of school food.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So let's dig in.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Welcome to the shows, Chef Rebecca, Chef Taylor, and Chef Jason.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So Scheffer Beck.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm going to start with you, what inspired you to
work in school food service.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
I grew up with my grandfather as a chef and
always loved to cook. And I actually went to school
for fashion merchandising and textiles and then decided to go
to culinary school and follow my grandfather's footsteps as a chef.
And I did the fine dining and research and development
(03:49):
for a restaurant chain, and I just wasn't feeling good
about the foods that I was serving to our customers
and started googling healthy chef, nutrition chef, and I came
across an executive chef position with Nashville Public Schools and
it sounded like the dream job, getting to feed kids
healthy foods. So I've been doing this now a little
(04:12):
over twelve years and super passionate about it and excited
about going to work every day.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
How about you, Chef Jason.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, So I also went to culinary school early on
and went into the restaurant industry. I was going to
be the next great pastry chef coming out of the
Culinary Institut of America, graised on a NAPA and after
a couple of years of fine dining restaurants and the
grind that that brings to life, I decided I needed
(04:41):
a break. And it is reel burnout kind of situation
and it wasn't conducive to starting a young family. So
previously I'd been in education and found myself at the
school I'm at today. This is going to be my
thirty second year at Marine Country Day School coming up,
and the chef of twenty years had just retired as
(05:02):
I'm taking my break from fine dining, and they tied
me to come in and feed the kids well and
possibly create a model for the rest of the country
of how we could feed our kids well in schools
and been doing that for the last twenty one years
directing the kitchen there.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
It's been amazing, incredible ride.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And Chef Jason, when you mentioned this stage of burnout
that you were entering or knew you were deep in,
did you feel when you started the work with Merton
County that shifted right away? Meaning could you see that
this looked different for your career journey.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Anytime you're on a school schedule with holidays off and
nights and weekends yourself, you just found a different appreciation
for that, and having summers off. It's the school schedule
that really made me excited about it. And then being
able to create school gardens and show kids where food
(06:00):
comes from and have a feel of their bodies and
insustainable ways for them the planet. It's just boosted my
career and it's been incredible.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And how about you, Chef Taylor.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
I don't have like a story that really of my
inspiration to get into school nutrition. It happened by accident,
which I think happens to a lot of folks. I
was a restaurant guy, you know, doing the long weekends
and the holidays and all of that, and I had
gotten myself into corporate catering, and so I had a
(06:35):
Monday through Friday breakfast and lunch deal going on and
it was really great and business was booming, and basically
COVID shut the whole thing down. I mean, nobody was
having in person lunches anymore. And I ran across school
nutrition on indeed, and I also have an education background.
(06:59):
So when I read through the job description, you know
you're back in the school setting, you're doing training, and
I mean I showed it to my wife. I was like, this,
this is written for me. You know, I really hope
I get this. And so I guess what inspires me
to be here is getting this shot and seeing this
(07:20):
sort of built in, this built in why and just
how good it feels to be in a cafeteria and
watch kids eating food that you worked on just for them.
Here we are, and I'm here to stay.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I love hearing this story, some of them being almost
the beautiful oops. So I would love to know. So
here we've heard from all three of you. How do
you know each other? How did your worlds come together?
And I'll have Chef Jason start that.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, you know I've met Cheffer back back in twenty
sixteen through the culinary instead of America has the Healthy
Kids Collaborative and that's where we met and that's where
I met Chef.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Tailor as well a couple of years ago. Right, is
that correct?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So the culinary Instagram America is Healthy Kids Collaborative is
really bringing a lot of us school nutrition leaders from
around the country together every year to work on different projects,
and we meet in person every December and NAPA.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
That's actually where I learned about this work of culinary medicine,
was at the CIA at their Healthy Kitchens, Healthy Lives conference,
and I was honored to speak last February to inspire others.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So now we're going to dive deep into how does
this work happen on a granular basis?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So, Chef Taylor, what are the criteria that you guys
use to create the recipes?
Speaker 6 (08:41):
Yeah, I guess we probably all have a different answer
to these questions. We all do things kind of differently.
You can't be as creative, I guess as just a
regular chef would, because you know, there is a starting
point with rules that you have to follow. So for us,
it's kind of looking for inspiration in different ways, whether
it be at product shows or things that are currently
(09:03):
trending out in the quote unquote real world, and we
look at ways that we can do that, and then
for me, I try to figure out how I'm gonna
fall within certain regulations before I even start testing the
recipe of you know, I want to make the food
taste as good as possible, but I understand that there's limitations,
(09:27):
so we kind of start there and then go through
the process of testing with our staff and our students
and seeing if things make the cut.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So how much of a child's taste comes into this,
how much, say, do they have in that chef Jason.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I think that great thing about cooking for kids is
that they're super honest and they're going to tell you
what they like and don't like, whether you want it
or not. Right, So, over the couple of decades I've
been in my school kitchen, you know, we do intently
listen to the kids and do taste testings through our
garden program. If we're going to bring something new on
(10:06):
the menu, we want to make sure that it's going
to be well received by most of the kids. I
have a captive audience the kids eat at school. Everyone
eats together at school. We're a private K through eight,
so lunches included for everybody, and I think really listening
to what the kids have to say when I'm working
(10:27):
with them in small groups, and if it's kindergarteners or
eighth graders or anyone in between, I think they know
what they like. But we also really put in a
lot of energy of teaching them how their palette grows
and changes as they as they grow, So exposing them
to new foods without pushing it on them is kind
(10:48):
of the key to our success. We have a beautiful
salad bar each day and we really utilize that salad
bar to really steal them new fruits and vegetables in
different forms, and they gravitate to it. They're curious about it,
and especially when you involve them in growing food on
campus we have some extensive gardens, they are more apt
(11:12):
to try and like it for sure. You know, I
got the whole community hooked on kale a few years back,
and I think that's just a big win for everybody.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
So, yeah, the exposure is huge.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
The vision of the garden and the involvement that hands
on in the full sensorial experience, I can imagine adds
so much of buying I is, for lack of a
better word, yeah, absolutely, And.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Cheff for back.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
So Chef Taylor brought up the rules and I'm sure
there's a lot of guidelines. There's two that I'm particularly
curious about at this moment is one is about the
nutrition aspect and one is about I.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Guess we'll start with budget.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So how what is the framework to start with as
you go into this meal preparation because there's the garden,
but you can't rely necessarily what may be growing in
the garden. So what are the rules, what's this framework
the borders that you're working with.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
So the National School Lunch Program is a federally funded program,
so we do have to follow rules and regulations, whether
that's following a meal pattern and nutrient analysis or you know,
our reimbursement rates and we get reimbursed for participation, So
anything we prepare doesn't mean that we will get reimbursed for.
(12:35):
It's only on that participation. So that really makes us
want to serve food that kids eat. But again, it's
a little bit kind of a balance between that nutrition education,
the exposure, and then meeting the budget constraints, the nutrition
constraints and having this delicate healthy balance. It can be difficult.
(12:59):
It's like a game of tetris. But I say, we
don't give kids enough credit for their adventurous palettes. They're
you know, going out and seeing fast casual restaurants that
have these more global cuisines. So as we continue to
(13:21):
expose them, whether it's through the salad bar customization in
you know, grain bowls and things like that. It really
helps with the participation, which then helps our program grow
as we can then in turn put that money right
back into our program and invest in it.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Taylor, When you talk about the federal funding, is that
only for public schools or is that also used in
private schools?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
That would be for anyone who participates in the program,
which means, you know, there's a there's a big thick
book of regulations and things you have to do in
order to qualify for that.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
How do you measure participation?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Is it people choosing to partake in the school lunches
or are you looking at how much waste there is
essentially at the end of a school day.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
So as far as the reimbursement goes, we're looking at
the number of students who came through the line, and
you know, usually they're entering an id number, but somehow
we're attaching every single reimbursable meal to a student and
then however many of that is times the reimbursement rate
is what we get. As far as tracking the different
(14:38):
items and different menu items and recipes, it gets a
little bit trickier because in the restaurant world, we have
a point of sale system where everything gets rung in
and we can keep track of inventory and we know
how things are going. But here it's a matter of
going back and measuring what's left over and kind of
doing the reverse math. And then you know, in our case,
(14:59):
we have sixty six schools, so we just have to
hope that those numbers are super accurate when we're making
decisions about what stays and what gets taken off the menu.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
When you say sixty six schools, can you say, is
this in one specific school district or give us a
context of what how are those sixty six schools involved?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
We have sixty six I guess now sixty six schools.
It's changing. We're all on site production, so every school
has its own kitchen. You know, we have elementary, middle,
and high schools. And in San Antonio it's a little
bit different. It's kind of sectioned off into smaller districts.
There's not just one big San Antonio that covers the
(15:41):
whole city, and so we represent only one the northeast
corner of the city. So we're big, but we're only
a small fraction of San Antonio.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So this is sixty six schools that you're talking about,
all in that specific.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Area, all in our DISTRICTA wow.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Okay, So, Chef Jason, I'm going to ask you glossary
of terms here to help us out for our audience
to understand. So Chef Taylor mentioned the essentially what I'm
getting as scratch cooking kitchens versus heat and serf. Can
you explain what the difference is with those?
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Yeah, I think, well, scratch cooking.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So we do all scratch cooking at my school and
I'm just a one off school feeding seven hundred and
fifty people a day. So when you know Chef Taylor
and Jeffer Becker talk about these large school districts, I
can't even wrap my head around that. And it's incredible
work that all those people are doing. We are doing
all scratch cooking. We're about ninety five percent scratch cooking
right now at my school.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
When we've talked about heat and.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Serve, I think Scheffer Becker Taylor could kind of talk
to more about heat and serve, which is done I
think in I would say a large percentage of the
school districts across the country, and mainly because they're feeding
hundreds of thousands of kids in some of these districts.
(17:00):
That's the way you have to feed the masses, which
is getting better and better as we all you know,
share ideas and work together, especially in the Healthy Kids
Collaborative as far as moving things forward to feeding kids
as well as we can in schools. But there are
some parameters, especially with the bigger districts. Like I said,
(17:23):
you know, it will be more heat and serve sometimes
when they don't have the kitchens with facilities to scratch cook.
But that's shifting. I think that's a national shift as
we go forward here.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So a lot of people in our audience won't actually
know what either of those two are.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
So let's go even further back.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Everyone has a different definition of what scratch cooking is,
and that's really starting with you know, a whole product
and then breaking it down into and incorporating it into
a recipe with other ingredients. Whole ingredients. Then they're speed
scratch cooking, which is what's happening a lot as we
(18:03):
make that shift from heat and serve to scratch cooking,
and that's using some of those already semi process items
and incorporating them into a recipe, and then there's the
heat and serve, which is mostly your individually wrapped products
that are coming from a manufacturer that you are just heating,
(18:26):
reheating and serving. I will say that model was absolutely
necessary during COVID and since then has taken a little
bit longer to get back to the speed scratch or
scratch cooking due to product availability, labor shortages, supply chain issues,
(18:50):
all of those things. But there is a movement through
chefs moving to schools, like all three of us where
we are, you know, working with districts, manufacturers and all
of you know, all of our partners to get more
scratch cooking in schools.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
My understanding because this happens this has happened in hospitals too,
is there are some facilities that are only set up
for heat and serve, so there's not the ability to
do scratch cooking or the new term for me that
I'm already forgetting what you said, but.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
There what was that speed scratch? Speed scratch? Thank you
new glossary of terms for me here as well? Is
there overall in the in the kitchens?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Is that the case also in schools, where there are
many that are only able to do heat and serves.
So essentially, the moving over is harder than just saying, okay,
now we're going to choose this because the whole kitchen
needs to be redone. Is that the case, Taylor, I
see you nodding.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Yeah. I mean, I'm super fortunate where in the district
that I'm at we have banks of ovens and tilt
skillets and steam kettles. We have lots of equipment that
allow us to do a lot of scratch cooking. But
I mean I hear stories, you know, much bigger districts
where they have an oven and a rice cooker and
(20:10):
that's it. And so there's a lot of limitations there
for sure, And sometimes speed scratch is really the only
option of getting away from a purely heat and serve.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And to go with the speed scratch.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So when you say those raw agreed, is this where
we're talking about canned or frozen items or is it
something even further in the processing than that.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
So one of the recipes that we created for Pacific
Coast producers is a Caribbean jerk chicken. Now, you could
use a already processed, frozen cooked drumstick that comes in
or you could use a raw you know, chicken thigh.
(20:57):
Each district can put these recipes together with the products
that they have and then you know, I said, Caribbean jerk,
which can be you know a little spicy or have
some heat to it. But then we're balancing it with
those canned peaches. I live in Minnesota. We don't get
very good peaches, certainly not year round, so having a
(21:19):
canned product to incorporate to help balance the cost and
flavor is really helpful.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
That helped a lot to get that visual.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So I really I appreciate that for myself and I'm
sure for our listeners as well. What do you find
to be one of the biggest challenges as we're looking
at balancing nutrition the budget again all those rules that
you've mentioned.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, it's you know, I think coming from fine dining,
like as the three of us are, I think having
a professional just view of menus and recipe development, and
then of course kind of.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Weaving that into kids palette. I think there's.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
A certain amount of ingenuity that will go into all
of that because we do have experience with you know,
big budgets and creating delicious food and delicious food that
looks appealing to the eye and is appealing to the
taste as well, So there's a lot that goes into that,
(22:25):
you know, speaking from just my eye point of view,
My team at my school really does help me in
all those aspects because there's so many different things that
are happening each day and each month. But we're always
trying to be innovative and creative and working with local purveyors,
local farmers, local food companies that so we can bring
(22:49):
in the best of the best to feed our school
community as well as we can. I'm not sure if
that answered the question, but that's my answer.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I love how you turn it into a positive. This
is this is a positive thinking.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So Chef Jason, I appreciate you saying that, and I
feel like I need to emphasize where you are in
Marin County is essentially, in some ways the nirvana of
the perfect sun and rain and weather of California. So,
Chef Tailor, I'm going to take it to you in
San Antonio, and how does it work for you as
far as how you source your food or your ingredients
(23:24):
compared to maybe what Chef Jason's experiences.
Speaker 6 (23:28):
Well, admittedly we don't do as much of the farm
to school stuff that we that we would like to do,
and you know, I know, there's not like a one
size fits all for that, but we do get a
lot of local produce here, and we use local companies
(23:49):
produce distributors here. And then for the most part of
you know, just because of our size and how much
we can, you know, the buying power that we have,
we buy most of our food directly from manufacturers and
that helps in a lot of ways. It's also, you know,
a big burden, and we have to maintain a warehouse
in a you know, a fleet of delivery vehicles and
(24:12):
things like that. But it what's great about that is
it's allowed us to develop a lot of relationships with
those manufacturers all over the country doing all different kinds
of products, and we're all kind of figuring it out together.
The shifting K twelve to chefs in schools like Rebecca mentioned,
(24:34):
and also moving to more speed scratch, and we found
that when we kind of get together as school chefs
and directors and dietitians and start thinking up these big
ideas that we want to do. I have started to
find that people are listening to that and they're looking
for ways to make those things happen in schools because
(24:57):
why wouldn't they. So we do mostly that direct approach,
and I think that's probably the biggest reason.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Why Taylor in these plants, these manufacturing plants. Is it
shelf stable, room temp or do you have frozen goods
that you're working with? Give us a visual of what
this the storage looks like, or this.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
As far as far as our facility or yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So essentially you mentioned that that you work with all
these manufacturers, and it comes into what I'm picturing is
this central place?
Speaker 3 (25:30):
What does the central place look like? How large is it?
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
I wish I had the square footage for you. It's big.
It's airplane hangar big, Okay, Yeah, a gigantic freezer that's
been expanded, and a very large dry storage area and
then a cooler as well. Yeah. Man, I wish I
(25:55):
had some numbers for that. It all comes in here
and then we have our our own staff that maintains
that inventory, pulls it, delivers it everything.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
The airplane hangar that helps a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So Scheffer Baka as far as and again you can
how potato this is. If you feel like one of
your colleagues would would be most fit for this, But
how do you approach I assume there's USDA guidelines involved
buying American provision guidelines.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
How does that fit into this conversation for you?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Is my understanding of more in the consulting role of
working with not specific school district, but more on a
global basis.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, so I work with districts all over the country,
and I will say every district does this differently as well.
Sometimes within the district, the schools are very different, so
it's very hard to be consistent. But I have one
district in California that they do all their farm to
(26:55):
school purchasing through micro purchasing, and so they have fifty
farm partners that they're working with individually. That's a lot
to manage with. But they're a smaller district. But then
you know, there are some larger districts that they do
something called forward contracting, where they put out bids for
(27:18):
the amount of produce that they would need, and farmers
can actually bid on that one product, like four thousand
pounds of carrots, and so it makes it a little
bit more manageable for the farmer as well as the schools.
They're not asking the farmer for forty thousand pounds, so
(27:40):
we can kind of share the wealth with everyone throughout.
You know, I know a lot of schools are working
with more of the emerging farmers, so the you know
women bipop community and really you know, supporting that, which
is awesome to see happening in our communities.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This gives me such optimism to hear these relationships and
on so many levels. So Chef Jason taking those relationships.
So we talk about food manufacturing and what Chefferbacca just mentioned,
how about industry collaborations specifically.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah, those relationships.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So I'm glad both Cheffer Becka and Cheff Taylor mentioned
relationships because everyone who kind of visits my school and
sees my program, toy, how do you do this? And
I said, well, it all depends on relationships, and it's
relationships with everybody that you're working with. And I think
that's how I've really found my success working with different
(28:44):
local companies and nationwide companies. I think people want to
get their products into schools. It is not an easy
endeavor for especially young companies, but some do it well
or better than others. We've seen some newer products come online,
especially from the food tech world that has really embraced
(29:08):
getting into schools nationwide, and they put a lot of
time and effort and funds into building relationships with school
districts across the country and are able to do that.
It's a little bit of a mystery for young founders, right,
And I think I'm pretty proud of helping some of
(29:29):
these companies get into schools and exposing the directors and
school chefs from around the country that I know to
some of these products that are perfect for schools, that
maybe the companies weren't thinking when they invented these amazing
products that it would be a good fit for schools,
or even thinking, you know, school nutrition being on their
(29:51):
radar at all. So Cheff Beck and I go to
Expo West down in Anaheim each year and talk to
these young founders and young companies, and some of the
companies have been there forever as well, but it's always
a surprise when we say this would be perfect for
school nutrition, and they are curious and want to know
(30:11):
more because it's thirty plus million customers a day in
America that they could be selling the product to.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So we've covered from USDA to industry to food manufacturers.
Let's go a little bigger here. So, Chef Taylor, how
does policymaking and policymakers fit into this conversation with school lunches.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Well, I, personally, in my experience so far in school food,
have not made any trips to Austin or Washington, DC
to learn more about that and sort of give my
two cents. But just you know, in the sort of
(30:54):
grand scheme of things, is this a very complex program
that we run, and it's our responsibility to be good
stewards of what we get. So the unfortunate part is
there's a lot of times that you're kind of waiting
around to see what the final rule is going to
be or what the final say is. You know, like
I said, it's really complex and there's so many moving
(31:18):
parts that sometimes I'm kind of blown away that we
make it. You know, that we can get through the
school year. But that is a big deal and we're
kind of, you know, we just have to follow along
with whatever comes down the line.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Scheffer Beacha, if you could give just a one liner
couple lines of what is the project that you guys
have been most recently working on together with the recipe development.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Yeah, so all three of us work together as the
Healthy Kids Collaborative members and consultants for Pacific Coast Producers
to create K twelve specific recipes using canned products, So
from apricots to tomatoes. We created ten plus recipes that
(32:09):
are specific to K twelve and it's really important that
those manufacturers work with K twelve chefs or people that
are familiar with the program because there are so many nuances.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
And do you see these recipes that have been developed.
If you could look at the magic eight ball and
they'll take this.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
To you, Chef Jason, what would you like to see
or maybe there's already an idea of what's going to
happen with these recipes if you could share it a
little bit with us.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, I think it's been exciting to work with Pacific
Host Producers over the last many months and they are
creating a bookletter or game plan with these recipes to
go out to K twelve school antrician chefs and directors
showing them how to be with their products, which is brilliant.
(33:02):
I hope more companies follow suit. So I think it's
important to you know, it's you know, when we're talking
about especially talking about their products, can fruit and can
tomato products. You know, schools will use them straight out
of the can, and you know kind of dump and
serve idea and or dump and cook. And I think
(33:24):
showing them innovative recipes is just going to get people's
imaginations and creativity going.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
And that's that's the hope with this project.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
And I think anytime we could share ideas and share
different innovations and it'll it'll only improve the way we
feed kids in schools.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That gives me such hope of this idea of helping
people because that creativity piece of how do you take
this whether it's right out of the garden or a
can good or frozen good, Some people don't have that
ability to see how it can flourish in many different
ways and for you to create something. And I'm sure
that and I would hope that that really brought out
(34:05):
your creativity pieces.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
So with those and.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Chef Taylor, this question is for you, either of these
recipes or just in general, what has been a surprise
favorite recipe for the kids that you've that you've experienced
in your in your time in school lunches.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
So interestingly enough, when when I think about this over
the course of this past year, the recipes that come
to mind happened to feature main ingredients that are canned goods.
But we tested overnight oats recipe that we just used
(34:43):
can fruit and some granola and some vanilla yogurt and
uh we used the juice in the vanilla in the
yogurt to flavor it and topped it with the canned fruit.
And it sounds, you know, like a simple rec but
when you when we paired it with some sampling and
(35:04):
some education and what are overnight oats, you know, something
like that with the students, we found that, you know,
the testing portions that we made were all gone when
we did that, so I was personally surprised. We had
done overnight oats as a sampling before, but when it
came to building a full package, it worked out really well.
(35:28):
And then we did a we did a tomato soup.
It was the first time in my K twelve experience
so far that we've put hot soup on a tray
and given it to a student, But we did a
tomato soup with grilled cheese. And we also last year
started making our own hummus from can chickpeas. And while
the hummus is not the new favorite entree in our
(35:51):
school menus. We found that even at elementary schools where
the staff was encouraging and inviting and we did say
samplings at all schools, it was a viable option, especially
as a meatless option too, which we always want to
have one meatless option every day on the menu. I mean,
it did better than some of our other salads or
(36:13):
cold combos that we have served in the past, so
it was surprising.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
So last question I'm actually going to ask all three
of you, because I think it's a great way to
wrap it up, is going with the shocking statistic that
only two percent of children meet their daily requirements of
fruits and vegetables, what are some tips that you have
for busy families of how to get more of those
into their meals on a regular basis, both in school
as well as at home.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
So Scheff Rebecca will start with you.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
This is a great one. So I think it's having,
you know, the customizable option, so you know, have cut
up produce fruit, vegetables already available in your refrigerator with
maybe grains and proteins, and so every night, lunch, dinner,
(37:02):
whatever it is, you can have your kid, yourself, whoever
it may be, build their own customizable bowl, and again
having that option to build it themselves, and that additional exposure,
I think each time they'll add a little bit more
and more fruit and vegetables to their plate. It's about
(37:26):
how it looks, you know, color as well and taste.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
It's important.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I'm really glad that you came back to that because
you mentioned that in a school lunch as well. In
that sense of giving agency to kids at home or
at school makes such a big difference to not being told.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Most of us adults or kids don't really like to
be told what to do and to give options, So
thank you. How about you, Chef Jason.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, I think consistency in exposure is huge, and I
do like the idea of different cuts. At my school,
we used to do carrots. We used to do baby
carrots straight from the package, but then we kind of
shifted it where we wanted to. We found a great
organic carrot farmer in central California, so we get all
(38:13):
our carrots from there. A little more production involved, but
when we cut it into sticks versus like coins, we
see that the kids take it more and better and faster.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
So I think the way it's exposed is.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Important, matching up with different dippers and different sauces and whatever.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
The vegetable the fruit is. I think the consistency is.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
The main thing. Don't give up on it, and the
kids will gravitate towards it. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And consistency here we're talking about consistently showing it to them,
not the consistency of the.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, consistently showing it to them, the habitat consistently in
your home refrigerator or on our school garden bars or
solid bars.
Speaker 6 (38:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
The studies are incredible where it shows that some kids
need exposure five to twenty times before they're able to.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Incorporate a new food.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Absolutely, And Chef Taylor, how about you, what would you
say to this question of how to increase that fruit
and vegetable consumption and children.
Speaker 6 (39:11):
I'll just speak to my personal experience a little bit,
and I will tell you that my daughter does not
try everything that I put out for dinner, But if
she has helped make the grocery list and pick that
item out, if she has participated in doing some vegetable
(39:34):
prep or in any sort of way helped out in
the kitchen, one hundred percent of the time she will
try it. I mean, at least try it. And then
the other part of that is if we're if we're
doing the everyone in their own room type of dinner,
she's not going to try it. But when we all
come together, and which is kind of the whole purpose
(39:56):
of a meal, and we have to eat every day,
so I know that people are busy, but I do
feel like taking time to not just sit down and
eat whatever bomb or Dad has put down for you.
But if the experience of shopping and cooking and the
(40:17):
and then sitting together and eating is part of it,
along with a little movement in there somewhere, at least
in my experience, I have found that that has helped
to get through a lot more, you know, at least
in my house.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
All that eating and community and again continued exposure and
the agency all three touched on such huge pieces.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
I will say one more thing from my parents. My
mom her cookbooks look a lot different than my Instagram feed,
and so it's out there. You know, we do have
access to good ideas. Even the grocery store that I
shot at, it will give you the recipe. You just
click the things on the list you need and you know,
(41:02):
maybe it's getting delivered to you. So there are so
many If you like food, there's tons of resources to
help you kind of plan your week out. How can
people reach you, Well, they can reach out anytime to
me here at Northeast ISD. You can email me at
t t MP one at any ISD. Definitely. If you're
(41:27):
in the school nutrition world or you're just interested, you
can follow us. We run a Facebook and an Instagram
and one thing I thought of earlier but we didn't
mention is schools. It's all an open book. We're not
in competition with one another, and so we're always sharing
between districts, so all recipes are open to the public
(41:48):
and we love sharing with others, So reach out anytime.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
How about you, Rebecca, How can people reach you? And
any last words of wisdom that you'd like to share.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Yeah, it's always a collaboration with everyone in K twelve.
It's all about the kids, so that's what we're here
to serve and we all love to do that. You
can find me on Facebook and Instagram at Chef Rebecca
K twelve and my website is school Nutrition chef dot com.
Speaker 6 (42:22):
Please reach out.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
And chef Jason.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I'm also on Facebook, Instagram and even LinkedIn and using
the address at Chef Jason Hull.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
That's h U l L at the end.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
And yeah, and i'll e goo how much we love collaborating,
you know, together in school nutrition but also outside as well.
And the goal is always to serve good food in
schools and I feel like we're hitting those notes. We're
getting better each year. And yeah, it's been an amazing
ride and I hope you know it's gonna be a
(42:59):
fun It's always fun to see how it progresses each year,
and it's always shifting and changing, and that's what's exciting
about it.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I feel such optimism from this conversation of again the
bridging of the silos and those conversations between all these
different farmers and the schools and Cheff Taylor what you
mentioned that there's kind of no secrets of really this
is we're all in this together to really help school
lunches just continue to get better and better. So I
thank you all through for your time and your wisdom.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
And your expertise.
Speaker 6 (43:32):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
As we wrap up this rich and meaningful conversation, I
want to thank our incredible guests, Chef Taylor Thompson, Chef
Jason Hall, and cheffer Becka Pulson for the work they
do every single day to nourish not just our children's bodies,
but their futures as well.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
What we feed kids in schools isn't just about the
lunch trait. It's about equity, opportunity, and health.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
We've heard today how creativity, collaboration, and care can turn
and a tight budget and strict guidelines into delicious, nourishing meals.
And we've seen how partnerships, whether from local farmers, school districts,
or food producers, can make healthy food more accessible even
in the most complex systems. If you're a parent, educator, policymaker,
(44:16):
or chef, I invite you to keep this conversation going,
advocate for better school meals, celebrate the cafeteria teams making
magic happen, and when possible, make fruits and vegetables a
joyful part of every kid's plate, whether at home or
at school. And if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe,
rate and share it. It helps us reach more people
(44:37):
who believe like we do in the power of food
is medicine, connection and transformation. Thank you for listening to
the Culinary Medicine Recipe podcast. Until next time, Salut and Bonapetti.
All content provided or opinions expressed in this episode are
for informational purposes only and are not a substitute for
(44:59):
professional medical advice. Please take advice from your doctor or
other qualified healthcare professional.
When we cut it into sticks versus coins, we see
that the kids take it more and better and faster.
So I think the way it's exposed is important. Matching
up with different dippers and different sauces and whatever the
vegetable or the fruit is. I think the consistency is
the main thing. Don't give up on it, and the
kids will gravitate towards it.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Welcome to culinary Medicine Recipe. I'm so happy you're here.
I'm your host, Doctor Sabrina Falke. I was a primary
care doctor for sixteen years and went to school for
four years to specialize in culinary medicine. In this work,
I get to combine my passionate expertise in both medicine
and food to teach people about food is medicine and
to empower them to understand what ingredients optimize health and
(00:45):
also how to cook those ingredients to make delicious meals.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
On the show, I interviewed.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Top chefs, doctors, healthcare visionaries, and food service professionals who
are making great strides in the field of culinary medicine.
Join me as we continue to explore the amazing world
of he andary medicine, where I will empower you to
make changes to your health and wellness with great food
right away. Welcome to today's show. I'd like to thank
(01:10):
the sponsor of this episode, Pacific Coast Producers. Today we're
diving into a topic that is as critical as it
is urgent, school lunches. But first, let's take a moment
to understand why this conversation matters so deeply. Here in
the US, Nearly one in five children are living with obesity,
over a quarter of adolescents age twelve to nineteen are
now pre diabetic, and shockingly, only two percent of children
(01:34):
meet the daily recommended intake of.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Fruits and vegetables.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And beyond individual health, there's the issue of access. Over
thirteen million children live in food insecure households, meaning that
school meals are often the most reliable and nutritious food
they get each day, and sometimes the only food they get.
So how do we turn these challenges into change by
hearing directly from the leaders innovating inside school kitchens. Today,
(01:58):
I'm honored to welcome three in pre guests. They are chefs, educators,
and advocates who are transforming the school food landscape with passion,
purpose and creativity. First, we have Chef Taylor Thompson, Assistant
Director of School Nutrition Services at Northeast ISD in San Antonio, Texas.
Taylor's culinary journey took him from restaurants and catering into
(02:19):
school kitchens, where he's been instrumental in expanding scratch made
offering and creating meals that kids love and parents can trust.
Next joining us from Northern California is Chef Jason Hall.
He's a director of Culinary Services and executive chef at
Marin County Day School. Jason leads a vibrant seed to
table program grounded in seasonal ingredients and sustainability. A longtime
(02:42):
advocate for child health and food systems change, Jason brings
decades of high level culinary experience to the school lunch trade.
And last, but not least, we're joined by Chef Rebecca Poulson,
a national K through twelve culinary trainer and consultant who
has worked with school districts across the country from James
Beard Restaurants to district test kitchens. Rebecca brings her expertise, energy,
(03:06):
and innovation to every recipe she touches, helping schools make
meals that are chef driven culturally relevant and kid approved. Together,
we'll talk about the creative and logistical realities of school food.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
So let's dig in.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Welcome to the shows, Chef Rebecca, Chef Taylor, and Chef Jason.
Speaker 3 (03:24):
So Scheffer Beck.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
I'm going to start with you, what inspired you to
work in school food service.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
I grew up with my grandfather as a chef and
always loved to cook. And I actually went to school
for fashion merchandising and textiles and then decided to go
to culinary school and follow my grandfather's footsteps as a chef.
And I did the fine dining and research and development
(03:49):
for a restaurant chain, and I just wasn't feeling good
about the foods that I was serving to our customers
and started googling healthy chef, nutrition chef, and I came
across an executive chef position with Nashville Public Schools and
it sounded like the dream job, getting to feed kids
healthy foods. So I've been doing this now a little
(04:12):
over twelve years and super passionate about it and excited
about going to work every day.
Speaker 3 (04:18):
How about you, Chef Jason.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Yeah, So I also went to culinary school early on
and went into the restaurant industry. I was going to
be the next great pastry chef coming out of the
Culinary Institut of America, graised on a NAPA and after
a couple of years of fine dining restaurants and the
grind that that brings to life, I decided I needed
(04:41):
a break. And it is reel burnout kind of situation
and it wasn't conducive to starting a young family. So
previously I'd been in education and found myself at the
school I'm at today. This is going to be my
thirty second year at Marine Country Day School coming up,
and the chef of twenty years had just retired as
(05:02):
I'm taking my break from fine dining, and they tied
me to come in and feed the kids well and
possibly create a model for the rest of the country
of how we could feed our kids well in schools
and been doing that for the last twenty one years
directing the kitchen there.
Speaker 5 (05:20):
It's been amazing, incredible ride.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
And Chef Jason, when you mentioned this stage of burnout
that you were entering or knew you were deep in,
did you feel when you started the work with Merton
County that shifted right away? Meaning could you see that
this looked different for your career journey.
Speaker 5 (05:38):
Oh. Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
Anytime you're on a school schedule with holidays off and
nights and weekends yourself, you just found a different appreciation
for that, and having summers off. It's the school schedule
that really made me excited about it. And then being
able to create school gardens and show kids where food
(06:00):
comes from and have a feel of their bodies and
insustainable ways for them the planet. It's just boosted my
career and it's been incredible.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And how about you, Chef Taylor.
Speaker 6 (06:15):
I don't have like a story that really of my
inspiration to get into school nutrition. It happened by accident,
which I think happens to a lot of folks. I
was a restaurant guy, you know, doing the long weekends
and the holidays and all of that, and I had
gotten myself into corporate catering, and so I had a
(06:35):
Monday through Friday breakfast and lunch deal going on and
it was really great and business was booming, and basically
COVID shut the whole thing down. I mean, nobody was
having in person lunches anymore. And I ran across school
nutrition on indeed, and I also have an education background.
(06:59):
So when I read through the job description, you know
you're back in the school setting, you're doing training, and
I mean I showed it to my wife. I was like, this,
this is written for me. You know, I really hope
I get this. And so I guess what inspires me
to be here is getting this shot and seeing this
(07:20):
sort of built in, this built in why and just
how good it feels to be in a cafeteria and
watch kids eating food that you worked on just for them.
Here we are, and I'm here to stay.
Speaker 2 (07:33):
I love hearing this story, some of them being almost
the beautiful oops. So I would love to know. So
here we've heard from all three of you. How do
you know each other? How did your worlds come together?
And I'll have Chef Jason start that.
Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, you know I've met Cheffer back back in twenty
sixteen through the culinary instead of America has the Healthy
Kids Collaborative and that's where we met and that's where
I met Chef.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Tailor as well a couple of years ago. Right, is
that correct?
Speaker 1 (08:03):
So the culinary Instagram America is Healthy Kids Collaborative is
really bringing a lot of us school nutrition leaders from
around the country together every year to work on different projects,
and we meet in person every December and NAPA.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
That's actually where I learned about this work of culinary medicine,
was at the CIA at their Healthy Kitchens, Healthy Lives conference,
and I was honored to speak last February to inspire others.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
So now we're going to dive deep into how does
this work happen on a granular basis?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
So, Chef Taylor, what are the criteria that you guys
use to create the recipes?
Speaker 6 (08:41):
Yeah, I guess we probably all have a different answer
to these questions. We all do things kind of differently.
You can't be as creative, I guess as just a
regular chef would, because you know, there is a starting
point with rules that you have to follow. So for us,
it's kind of looking for inspiration in different ways, whether
it be at product shows or things that are currently
(09:03):
trending out in the quote unquote real world, and we
look at ways that we can do that, and then
for me, I try to figure out how I'm gonna
fall within certain regulations before I even start testing the
recipe of you know, I want to make the food
taste as good as possible, but I understand that there's limitations,
(09:27):
so we kind of start there and then go through
the process of testing with our staff and our students
and seeing if things make the cut.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
So how much of a child's taste comes into this,
how much, say, do they have in that chef Jason.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Yeah, I think.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
I think that great thing about cooking for kids is
that they're super honest and they're going to tell you
what they like and don't like, whether you want it
or not. Right, So, over the couple of decades I've
been in my school kitchen, you know, we do intently
listen to the kids and do taste testings through our
garden program. If we're going to bring something new on
(10:06):
the menu, we want to make sure that it's going
to be well received by most of the kids. I
have a captive audience the kids eat at school. Everyone
eats together at school. We're a private K through eight,
so lunches included for everybody, and I think really listening
to what the kids have to say when I'm working
(10:27):
with them in small groups, and if it's kindergarteners or
eighth graders or anyone in between, I think they know
what they like. But we also really put in a
lot of energy of teaching them how their palette grows
and changes as they as they grow, So exposing them
to new foods without pushing it on them is kind
(10:48):
of the key to our success. We have a beautiful
salad bar each day and we really utilize that salad
bar to really steal them new fruits and vegetables in
different forms, and they gravitate to it. They're curious about it,
and especially when you involve them in growing food on
campus we have some extensive gardens, they are more apt
(11:12):
to try and like it for sure. You know, I
got the whole community hooked on kale a few years back,
and I think that's just a big win for everybody.
Speaker 5 (11:23):
So, yeah, the exposure is huge.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
The vision of the garden and the involvement that hands
on in the full sensorial experience, I can imagine adds
so much of buying I is, for lack of a
better word, yeah, absolutely, And.
Speaker 5 (11:39):
Cheff for back.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
So Chef Taylor brought up the rules and I'm sure
there's a lot of guidelines. There's two that I'm particularly
curious about at this moment is one is about the
nutrition aspect and one is about I.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Guess we'll start with budget.
Speaker 2 (11:57):
So how what is the framework to start with as
you go into this meal preparation because there's the garden,
but you can't rely necessarily what may be growing in
the garden. So what are the rules, what's this framework
the borders that you're working with.
Speaker 4 (12:11):
So the National School Lunch Program is a federally funded program,
so we do have to follow rules and regulations, whether
that's following a meal pattern and nutrient analysis or you know,
our reimbursement rates and we get reimbursed for participation, So
anything we prepare doesn't mean that we will get reimbursed for.
(12:35):
It's only on that participation. So that really makes us
want to serve food that kids eat. But again, it's
a little bit kind of a balance between that nutrition education,
the exposure, and then meeting the budget constraints, the nutrition
constraints and having this delicate healthy balance. It can be difficult.
(12:59):
It's like a game of tetris. But I say, we
don't give kids enough credit for their adventurous palettes. They're
you know, going out and seeing fast casual restaurants that
have these more global cuisines. So as we continue to
(13:21):
expose them, whether it's through the salad bar customization in
you know, grain bowls and things like that. It really
helps with the participation, which then helps our program grow
as we can then in turn put that money right
back into our program and invest in it.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
Taylor, When you talk about the federal funding, is that
only for public schools or is that also used in
private schools?
Speaker 6 (13:50):
That would be for anyone who participates in the program,
which means, you know, there's a there's a big thick
book of regulations and things you have to do in
order to qualify for that.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
How do you measure participation?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Is it people choosing to partake in the school lunches
or are you looking at how much waste there is
essentially at the end of a school day.
Speaker 6 (14:15):
So as far as the reimbursement goes, we're looking at
the number of students who came through the line, and
you know, usually they're entering an id number, but somehow
we're attaching every single reimbursable meal to a student and
then however many of that is times the reimbursement rate
is what we get. As far as tracking the different
(14:38):
items and different menu items and recipes, it gets a
little bit trickier because in the restaurant world, we have
a point of sale system where everything gets rung in
and we can keep track of inventory and we know
how things are going. But here it's a matter of
going back and measuring what's left over and kind of
doing the reverse math. And then you know, in our case,
(14:59):
we have sixty six schools, so we just have to
hope that those numbers are super accurate when we're making
decisions about what stays and what gets taken off the menu.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
When you say sixty six schools, can you say, is
this in one specific school district or give us a
context of what how are those sixty six schools involved?
Speaker 6 (15:20):
We have sixty six I guess now sixty six schools.
It's changing. We're all on site production, so every school
has its own kitchen. You know, we have elementary, middle,
and high schools. And in San Antonio it's a little
bit different. It's kind of sectioned off into smaller districts.
There's not just one big San Antonio that covers the
(15:41):
whole city, and so we represent only one the northeast
corner of the city. So we're big, but we're only
a small fraction of San Antonio.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
So this is sixty six schools that you're talking about,
all in that specific.
Speaker 6 (15:55):
Area, all in our DISTRICTA wow.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Okay, So, Chef Jason, I'm going to ask you glossary
of terms here to help us out for our audience
to understand. So Chef Taylor mentioned the essentially what I'm
getting as scratch cooking kitchens versus heat and serf. Can
you explain what the difference is with those?
Speaker 5 (16:14):
Yeah, I think, well, scratch cooking.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
So we do all scratch cooking at my school and
I'm just a one off school feeding seven hundred and
fifty people a day. So when you know Chef Taylor
and Jeffer Becker talk about these large school districts, I
can't even wrap my head around that. And it's incredible
work that all those people are doing. We are doing
all scratch cooking. We're about ninety five percent scratch cooking
right now at my school.
Speaker 5 (16:38):
When we've talked about heat and.
Speaker 1 (16:40):
Serve, I think Scheffer Becker Taylor could kind of talk
to more about heat and serve, which is done I
think in I would say a large percentage of the
school districts across the country, and mainly because they're feeding
hundreds of thousands of kids in some of these districts.
(17:00):
That's the way you have to feed the masses, which
is getting better and better as we all you know,
share ideas and work together, especially in the Healthy Kids
Collaborative as far as moving things forward to feeding kids
as well as we can in schools. But there are
some parameters, especially with the bigger districts. Like I said,
(17:23):
you know, it will be more heat and serve sometimes
when they don't have the kitchens with facilities to scratch cook.
But that's shifting. I think that's a national shift as
we go forward here.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
So a lot of people in our audience won't actually
know what either of those two are.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
So let's go even further back.
Speaker 4 (17:41):
Everyone has a different definition of what scratch cooking is,
and that's really starting with you know, a whole product
and then breaking it down into and incorporating it into
a recipe with other ingredients. Whole ingredients. Then they're speed
scratch cooking, which is what's happening a lot as we
(18:03):
make that shift from heat and serve to scratch cooking,
and that's using some of those already semi process items
and incorporating them into a recipe, and then there's the
heat and serve, which is mostly your individually wrapped products
that are coming from a manufacturer that you are just heating,
(18:26):
reheating and serving. I will say that model was absolutely
necessary during COVID and since then has taken a little
bit longer to get back to the speed scratch or
scratch cooking due to product availability, labor shortages, supply chain issues,
(18:50):
all of those things. But there is a movement through
chefs moving to schools, like all three of us where
we are, you know, working with districts, manufacturers and all
of you know, all of our partners to get more
scratch cooking in schools.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
My understanding because this happens this has happened in hospitals too,
is there are some facilities that are only set up
for heat and serve, so there's not the ability to
do scratch cooking or the new term for me that
I'm already forgetting what you said, but.
Speaker 3 (19:24):
There what was that speed scratch? Speed scratch? Thank you
new glossary of terms for me here as well? Is
there overall in the in the kitchens?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Is that the case also in schools, where there are
many that are only able to do heat and serves.
So essentially, the moving over is harder than just saying, okay,
now we're going to choose this because the whole kitchen
needs to be redone. Is that the case, Taylor, I
see you nodding.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
Yeah. I mean, I'm super fortunate where in the district
that I'm at we have banks of ovens and tilt
skillets and steam kettles. We have lots of equipment that
allow us to do a lot of scratch cooking. But
I mean I hear stories, you know, much bigger districts
where they have an oven and a rice cooker and
(20:10):
that's it. And so there's a lot of limitations there
for sure, And sometimes speed scratch is really the only
option of getting away from a purely heat and serve.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
And to go with the speed scratch.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So when you say those raw agreed, is this where
we're talking about canned or frozen items or is it
something even further in the processing than that.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:35):
So one of the recipes that we created for Pacific
Coast producers is a Caribbean jerk chicken. Now, you could
use a already processed, frozen cooked drumstick that comes in
or you could use a raw you know, chicken thigh.
(20:57):
Each district can put these recipes together with the products
that they have and then you know, I said, Caribbean jerk,
which can be you know a little spicy or have
some heat to it. But then we're balancing it with
those canned peaches. I live in Minnesota. We don't get
very good peaches, certainly not year round, so having a
(21:19):
canned product to incorporate to help balance the cost and
flavor is really helpful.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
That helped a lot to get that visual.
Speaker 2 (21:30):
So I really I appreciate that for myself and I'm
sure for our listeners as well. What do you find
to be one of the biggest challenges as we're looking
at balancing nutrition the budget again all those rules that
you've mentioned.
Speaker 1 (21:44):
Yeah, it's you know, I think coming from fine dining,
like as the three of us are, I think having
a professional just view of menus and recipe development, and
then of course kind of.
Speaker 5 (21:58):
Weaving that into kids palette. I think there's.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
A certain amount of ingenuity that will go into all
of that because we do have experience with you know,
big budgets and creating delicious food and delicious food that
looks appealing to the eye and is appealing to the
taste as well, So there's a lot that goes into that,
(22:25):
you know, speaking from just my eye point of view,
My team at my school really does help me in
all those aspects because there's so many different things that
are happening each day and each month. But we're always
trying to be innovative and creative and working with local purveyors,
local farmers, local food companies that so we can bring
(22:49):
in the best of the best to feed our school
community as well as we can. I'm not sure if
that answered the question, but that's my answer.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
I love how you turn it into a positive. This
is this is a positive thinking.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
So Chef Jason, I appreciate you saying that, and I
feel like I need to emphasize where you are in
Marin County is essentially, in some ways the nirvana of
the perfect sun and rain and weather of California. So,
Chef Tailor, I'm going to take it to you in
San Antonio, and how does it work for you as
far as how you source your food or your ingredients
(23:24):
compared to maybe what Chef Jason's experiences.
Speaker 6 (23:28):
Well, admittedly we don't do as much of the farm
to school stuff that we that we would like to do,
and you know, I know, there's not like a one
size fits all for that, but we do get a
lot of local produce here, and we use local companies
(23:49):
produce distributors here. And then for the most part of
you know, just because of our size and how much
we can, you know, the buying power that we have,
we buy most of our food directly from manufacturers and
that helps in a lot of ways. It's also, you know,
a big burden, and we have to maintain a warehouse
in a you know, a fleet of delivery vehicles and
(24:12):
things like that. But it what's great about that is
it's allowed us to develop a lot of relationships with
those manufacturers all over the country doing all different kinds
of products, and we're all kind of figuring it out together.
The shifting K twelve to chefs in schools like Rebecca mentioned,
(24:34):
and also moving to more speed scratch, and we found
that when we kind of get together as school chefs
and directors and dietitians and start thinking up these big
ideas that we want to do. I have started to
find that people are listening to that and they're looking
for ways to make those things happen in schools because
(24:57):
why wouldn't they. So we do mostly that direct approach,
and I think that's probably the biggest reason.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Why Taylor in these plants, these manufacturing plants. Is it
shelf stable, room temp or do you have frozen goods
that you're working with? Give us a visual of what
this the storage looks like, or this.
Speaker 6 (25:19):
As far as far as our facility or yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
So essentially you mentioned that that you work with all
these manufacturers, and it comes into what I'm picturing is
this central place?
Speaker 3 (25:30):
What does the central place look like? How large is it?
Speaker 5 (25:34):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (25:34):
I wish I had the square footage for you. It's big.
It's airplane hangar big, Okay, Yeah, a gigantic freezer that's
been expanded, and a very large dry storage area and
then a cooler as well. Yeah. Man, I wish I
(25:55):
had some numbers for that. It all comes in here
and then we have our our own staff that maintains
that inventory, pulls it, delivers it everything.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
The airplane hangar that helps a lot.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So Scheffer Baka as far as and again you can
how potato this is. If you feel like one of
your colleagues would would be most fit for this, But
how do you approach I assume there's USDA guidelines involved
buying American provision guidelines.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
How does that fit into this conversation for you?
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Is my understanding of more in the consulting role of
working with not specific school district, but more on a
global basis.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
Yeah, so I work with districts all over the country,
and I will say every district does this differently as well.
Sometimes within the district, the schools are very different, so
it's very hard to be consistent. But I have one
district in California that they do all their farm to
(26:55):
school purchasing through micro purchasing, and so they have fifty
farm partners that they're working with individually. That's a lot
to manage with. But they're a smaller district. But then
you know, there are some larger districts that they do
something called forward contracting, where they put out bids for
(27:18):
the amount of produce that they would need, and farmers
can actually bid on that one product, like four thousand
pounds of carrots, and so it makes it a little
bit more manageable for the farmer as well as the schools.
They're not asking the farmer for forty thousand pounds, so
(27:40):
we can kind of share the wealth with everyone throughout.
You know, I know a lot of schools are working
with more of the emerging farmers, so the you know
women bipop community and really you know, supporting that, which
is awesome to see happening in our communities.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
This gives me such optimism to hear these relationships and
on so many levels. So Chef Jason taking those relationships.
So we talk about food manufacturing and what Chefferbacca just mentioned,
how about industry collaborations specifically.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah, those relationships.
Speaker 1 (28:23):
So I'm glad both Cheffer Becka and Cheff Taylor mentioned
relationships because everyone who kind of visits my school and
sees my program, toy, how do you do this? And
I said, well, it all depends on relationships, and it's
relationships with everybody that you're working with. And I think
that's how I've really found my success working with different
(28:44):
local companies and nationwide companies. I think people want to
get their products into schools. It is not an easy
endeavor for especially young companies, but some do it well
or better than others. We've seen some newer products come online,
especially from the food tech world that has really embraced
(29:08):
getting into schools nationwide, and they put a lot of
time and effort and funds into building relationships with school
districts across the country and are able to do that.
It's a little bit of a mystery for young founders, right,
And I think I'm pretty proud of helping some of
(29:29):
these companies get into schools and exposing the directors and
school chefs from around the country that I know to
some of these products that are perfect for schools, that
maybe the companies weren't thinking when they invented these amazing
products that it would be a good fit for schools,
or even thinking, you know, school nutrition being on their
(29:51):
radar at all. So Cheff Beck and I go to
Expo West down in Anaheim each year and talk to
these young founders and young companies, and some of the
companies have been there forever as well, but it's always
a surprise when we say this would be perfect for
school nutrition, and they are curious and want to know
(30:11):
more because it's thirty plus million customers a day in
America that they could be selling the product to.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
So we've covered from USDA to industry to food manufacturers.
Let's go a little bigger here. So, Chef Taylor, how
does policymaking and policymakers fit into this conversation with school lunches.
Speaker 6 (30:34):
Well, I, personally, in my experience so far in school food,
have not made any trips to Austin or Washington, DC
to learn more about that and sort of give my
two cents. But just you know, in the sort of
(30:54):
grand scheme of things, is this a very complex program
that we run, and it's our responsibility to be good
stewards of what we get. So the unfortunate part is
there's a lot of times that you're kind of waiting
around to see what the final rule is going to
be or what the final say is. You know, like
I said, it's really complex and there's so many moving
(31:18):
parts that sometimes I'm kind of blown away that we
make it. You know, that we can get through the
school year. But that is a big deal and we're
kind of, you know, we just have to follow along
with whatever comes down the line.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Scheffer Beacha, if you could give just a one liner
couple lines of what is the project that you guys
have been most recently working on together with the recipe development.
Speaker 4 (31:44):
Yeah, so all three of us work together as the
Healthy Kids Collaborative members and consultants for Pacific Coast Producers
to create K twelve specific recipes using canned products, So
from apricots to tomatoes. We created ten plus recipes that
(32:09):
are specific to K twelve and it's really important that
those manufacturers work with K twelve chefs or people that
are familiar with the program because there are so many nuances.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
And do you see these recipes that have been developed.
If you could look at the magic eight ball and
they'll take this.
Speaker 2 (32:29):
To you, Chef Jason, what would you like to see
or maybe there's already an idea of what's going to
happen with these recipes if you could share it a
little bit with us.
Speaker 1 (32:37):
Yeah, I think it's been exciting to work with Pacific
Host Producers over the last many months and they are
creating a bookletter or game plan with these recipes to
go out to K twelve school antrician chefs and directors
showing them how to be with their products, which is brilliant.
(33:02):
I hope more companies follow suit. So I think it's
important to you know, it's you know, when we're talking
about especially talking about their products, can fruit and can
tomato products. You know, schools will use them straight out
of the can, and you know kind of dump and
serve idea and or dump and cook. And I think
(33:24):
showing them innovative recipes is just going to get people's
imaginations and creativity going.
Speaker 5 (33:32):
And that's that's the hope with this project.
Speaker 1 (33:34):
And I think anytime we could share ideas and share
different innovations and it'll it'll only improve the way we
feed kids in schools.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
That gives me such hope of this idea of helping
people because that creativity piece of how do you take
this whether it's right out of the garden or a
can good or frozen good, Some people don't have that
ability to see how it can flourish in many different
ways and for you to create something. And I'm sure
that and I would hope that that really brought out
(34:05):
your creativity pieces.
Speaker 3 (34:07):
So with those and.
Speaker 2 (34:08):
Chef Taylor, this question is for you, either of these
recipes or just in general, what has been a surprise
favorite recipe for the kids that you've that you've experienced
in your in your time in school lunches.
Speaker 6 (34:20):
So interestingly enough, when when I think about this over
the course of this past year, the recipes that come
to mind happened to feature main ingredients that are canned goods.
But we tested overnight oats recipe that we just used
(34:43):
can fruit and some granola and some vanilla yogurt and
uh we used the juice in the vanilla in the
yogurt to flavor it and topped it with the canned fruit.
And it sounds, you know, like a simple rec but
when you when we paired it with some sampling and
(35:04):
some education and what are overnight oats, you know, something
like that with the students, we found that, you know,
the testing portions that we made were all gone when
we did that, so I was personally surprised. We had
done overnight oats as a sampling before, but when it
came to building a full package, it worked out really well.
(35:28):
And then we did a we did a tomato soup.
It was the first time in my K twelve experience
so far that we've put hot soup on a tray
and given it to a student, But we did a
tomato soup with grilled cheese. And we also last year
started making our own hummus from can chickpeas. And while
the hummus is not the new favorite entree in our
(35:51):
school menus. We found that even at elementary schools where
the staff was encouraging and inviting and we did say
samplings at all schools, it was a viable option, especially
as a meatless option too, which we always want to
have one meatless option every day on the menu. I mean,
it did better than some of our other salads or
(36:13):
cold combos that we have served in the past, so
it was surprising.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
So last question I'm actually going to ask all three
of you, because I think it's a great way to
wrap it up, is going with the shocking statistic that
only two percent of children meet their daily requirements of
fruits and vegetables, what are some tips that you have
for busy families of how to get more of those
into their meals on a regular basis, both in school
as well as at home.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
So Scheff Rebecca will start with you.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
This is a great one. So I think it's having,
you know, the customizable option, so you know, have cut
up produce fruit, vegetables already available in your refrigerator with
maybe grains and proteins, and so every night, lunch, dinner,
(37:02):
whatever it is, you can have your kid, yourself, whoever
it may be, build their own customizable bowl, and again
having that option to build it themselves, and that additional exposure,
I think each time they'll add a little bit more
and more fruit and vegetables to their plate. It's about
(37:26):
how it looks, you know, color as well and taste.
Speaker 5 (37:30):
It's important.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
I'm really glad that you came back to that because
you mentioned that in a school lunch as well. In
that sense of giving agency to kids at home or
at school makes such a big difference to not being told.
Speaker 3 (37:44):
Most of us adults or kids don't really like to
be told what to do and to give options, So
thank you. How about you, Chef Jason.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
Yeah, I think consistency in exposure is huge, and I
do like the idea of different cuts. At my school,
we used to do carrots. We used to do baby
carrots straight from the package, but then we kind of
shifted it where we wanted to. We found a great
organic carrot farmer in central California, so we get all
(38:13):
our carrots from there. A little more production involved, but
when we cut it into sticks versus like coins, we
see that the kids take it more and better and faster.
Speaker 5 (38:24):
So I think the way it's exposed is.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
Important, matching up with different dippers and different sauces and whatever.
Speaker 5 (38:31):
The vegetable the fruit is. I think the consistency is.
Speaker 1 (38:34):
The main thing. Don't give up on it, and the
kids will gravitate towards it. Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (38:40):
And consistency here we're talking about consistently showing it to them,
not the consistency of the.
Speaker 1 (38:46):
Yeah, consistently showing it to them, the habitat consistently in
your home refrigerator or on our school garden bars or
solid bars.
Speaker 6 (38:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
The studies are incredible where it shows that some kids
need exposure five to twenty times before they're able to.
Speaker 3 (39:02):
Incorporate a new food.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Absolutely, And Chef Taylor, how about you, what would you
say to this question of how to increase that fruit
and vegetable consumption and children.
Speaker 6 (39:11):
I'll just speak to my personal experience a little bit,
and I will tell you that my daughter does not
try everything that I put out for dinner, But if
she has helped make the grocery list and pick that
item out, if she has participated in doing some vegetable
(39:34):
prep or in any sort of way helped out in
the kitchen, one hundred percent of the time she will
try it. I mean, at least try it. And then
the other part of that is if we're if we're
doing the everyone in their own room type of dinner,
she's not going to try it. But when we all
come together, and which is kind of the whole purpose
(39:56):
of a meal, and we have to eat every day,
so I know that people are busy, but I do
feel like taking time to not just sit down and
eat whatever bomb or Dad has put down for you.
But if the experience of shopping and cooking and the
(40:17):
and then sitting together and eating is part of it,
along with a little movement in there somewhere, at least
in my experience, I have found that that has helped
to get through a lot more, you know, at least
in my house.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
All that eating and community and again continued exposure and
the agency all three touched on such huge pieces.
Speaker 6 (40:41):
I will say one more thing from my parents. My
mom her cookbooks look a lot different than my Instagram feed,
and so it's out there. You know, we do have
access to good ideas. Even the grocery store that I
shot at, it will give you the recipe. You just
click the things on the list you need and you know,
(41:02):
maybe it's getting delivered to you. So there are so
many If you like food, there's tons of resources to
help you kind of plan your week out. How can
people reach you, Well, they can reach out anytime to
me here at Northeast ISD. You can email me at
t t MP one at any ISD. Definitely. If you're
(41:27):
in the school nutrition world or you're just interested, you
can follow us. We run a Facebook and an Instagram
and one thing I thought of earlier but we didn't
mention is schools. It's all an open book. We're not
in competition with one another, and so we're always sharing
between districts, so all recipes are open to the public
(41:48):
and we love sharing with others, So reach out anytime.
Speaker 2 (41:53):
How about you, Rebecca, How can people reach you? And
any last words of wisdom that you'd like to share.
Speaker 4 (41:59):
Yeah, it's always a collaboration with everyone in K twelve.
It's all about the kids, so that's what we're here
to serve and we all love to do that. You
can find me on Facebook and Instagram at Chef Rebecca
K twelve and my website is school Nutrition chef dot com.
Speaker 6 (42:22):
Please reach out.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
And chef Jason.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
I'm also on Facebook, Instagram and even LinkedIn and using
the address at Chef Jason Hull.
Speaker 5 (42:34):
That's h U l L at the end.
Speaker 1 (42:37):
And yeah, and i'll e goo how much we love collaborating,
you know, together in school nutrition but also outside as well.
And the goal is always to serve good food in
schools and I feel like we're hitting those notes. We're
getting better each year. And yeah, it's been an amazing
ride and I hope you know it's gonna be a
(42:59):
fun It's always fun to see how it progresses each year,
and it's always shifting and changing, and that's what's exciting
about it.
Speaker 3 (43:08):
Thank you all so much.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
I feel such optimism from this conversation of again the
bridging of the silos and those conversations between all these
different farmers and the schools and Cheff Taylor what you
mentioned that there's kind of no secrets of really this
is we're all in this together to really help school
lunches just continue to get better and better. So I
thank you all through for your time and your wisdom.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
And your expertise.
Speaker 6 (43:32):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
As we wrap up this rich and meaningful conversation, I
want to thank our incredible guests, Chef Taylor Thompson, Chef
Jason Hall, and cheffer Becka Pulson for the work they
do every single day to nourish not just our children's bodies,
but their futures as well.
Speaker 3 (43:50):
What we feed kids in schools isn't just about the
lunch trait. It's about equity, opportunity, and health.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
We've heard today how creativity, collaboration, and care can turn
and a tight budget and strict guidelines into delicious, nourishing meals.
And we've seen how partnerships, whether from local farmers, school districts,
or food producers, can make healthy food more accessible even
in the most complex systems. If you're a parent, educator, policymaker,
(44:16):
or chef, I invite you to keep this conversation going,
advocate for better school meals, celebrate the cafeteria teams making
magic happen, and when possible, make fruits and vegetables a
joyful part of every kid's plate, whether at home or
at school. And if you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe,
rate and share it. It helps us reach more people
(44:37):
who believe like we do in the power of food
is medicine, connection and transformation. Thank you for listening to
the Culinary Medicine Recipe podcast. Until next time, Salut and Bonapetti.
All content provided or opinions expressed in this episode are
for informational purposes only and are not a substitute for
(44:59):
professional medical advice. Please take advice from your doctor or
other qualified healthcare professional.
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I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.