February 13, 2024 • 47 mins
It’s no secret how powerful stories can be. But how impactful can storytelling be in the workplace when used strategically?
In this episode, Jeff Bartsch helps simplify how leaders can use strategic storytelling & story alignment to increase employee engagement!
Jeff Bartsch is a visionary storyteller, communication strategist, and founder of Story Greenlight. With over 20 years of experience in the entertainment industry and online business, Jeff has helped shape content for clients including ABC, NBC, Universal, Disney, Apple, and many others. Jeff’s commentary has been featured in major publications including Time Magazine, USA Today, and the Associated Press.
Through Story Greenlight, Jeff and his team empower business experts and leaders to tell their stories, serve more clients, and expand their impact in the world. He believes that the power of story is within reach of everyone and that human connection is everything.
Contact Jeff: www.StoryGreenlight.com/culturebuilding
Questions about this episode? Topic suggestions for future episodes? Send them to culture@businessadvocatespro.com
Let's chat about this episode on Twitter: @BAPROINC or IG: @CultureBuildingPRO
The Culture Building like a PRO Podcast: Simple ways to transform your company culture... Today!
| Company Culture | Culture Building | Organizational Culture | Employee Engagement | Effective Leadership | Servant Leadership |
baproinc.com
In this episode, Jeff Bartsch helps simplify how leaders can use strategic storytelling & story alignment to increase employee engagement!
Jeff Bartsch is a visionary storyteller, communication strategist, and founder of Story Greenlight. With over 20 years of experience in the entertainment industry and online business, Jeff has helped shape content for clients including ABC, NBC, Universal, Disney, Apple, and many others. Jeff’s commentary has been featured in major publications including Time Magazine, USA Today, and the Associated Press.
Through Story Greenlight, Jeff and his team empower business experts and leaders to tell their stories, serve more clients, and expand their impact in the world. He believes that the power of story is within reach of everyone and that human connection is everything.
Contact Jeff: www.StoryGreenlight.com/culturebuilding
Questions about this episode? Topic suggestions for future episodes? Send them to culture@businessadvocatespro.com
Let's chat about this episode on Twitter: @BAPROINC or IG: @CultureBuildingPRO
The Culture Building like a PRO Podcast: Simple ways to transform your company culture... Today!
| Company Culture | Culture Building | Organizational Culture | Employee Engagement | Effective Leadership | Servant Leadership |
baproinc.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
How do we apply this to business. Well, it's incredibly relevant because when
we talk about the challenge of takingthe story of our business, the story
of ourselves as leaders, and liningthat up with all the other storylines that
everyone else is living right now,so everyone gets what they want. That
is strategic storytelling and action, andthat is interaction and business every minute of
(00:23):
every day. If you tell thisstory for the purpose of making yourself look
good so you get what you wantas the leader, good luck getting your
audience to buy in. Because whenyour audience is listening to a story,
the audience is receiving that story asthe hero of their own storyline. They
want to get what they want.The story makes people pay attention. Welcome
(00:49):
to the Culture Building like a propodcast, helping small business owners and managers
lead a company culture where employees areengaged to do their best work ye if
they want to and not because theyhave to. Now, let's jumpstart your
culture transformation with company culture Strategists,leadership coach and trainer Deanna Appling. Jeff
(01:12):
Barche is a visionary storyteller, communicationstrategists and founder at story Greenlight with over
twenty years of experience in the entertainmentindustry and online business. Jeff has helped
shape content for clients including ABC,NBC, Universal, Disney, Apple,
and many others. Jeff's commentary hasbeen featured in major publications including Time Magazine,
(01:38):
USA Today, and the Associated Press. Through Story Greenlight, Jeff and
his team empower business experts and leadersto tell their stories, serve more clients,
and expand their impact in the world. He believes that the power of
story is within reach of everyone andthat human connection is everything. Thank you
(01:59):
so much for joining the show today, Jeff. It's an honor to be
here. Diana looking forward to this. Yes, I am as well,
and it was so nice meeting younot too long ago and finding out that
we both are in the greater Clevelandarea. That doesn't happen too often,
so Northeast Ohio, baby, Yes, where we are. Yes, And
it's a snowy day today, butit's nice to have a fellow Calves fan
(02:21):
on the show. Well, beforewe dive into the episode, which I'm
very excited about. Being a visionarystoryteller is something that is very specific and
unique, even it's not a rolethat we hear of too often. So
before we get into all of thedetails. I think it will be helpful
to explain to the listeners exactly whata visionary storyteller is and more importantly,
(02:44):
how your path kind of led youto that. Sure, well that's you
know what. That is actually thefirst time anyone has ever asked me that,
really, so props to you.It's actually it's actually a reflection on
what took me almost forty years ofmy life to figure out. When people
(03:05):
look me up online, they see, Okay, Jeff, you're the TV
guy. You spent twenty years inHollywood, and they think, well,
that's where you learned all about communicationand storytelling, which it's true. I
mean, the bulk of my professionalcareer was honed during that time, but
the foundation for all that came throughoutthe entire rest of my life, which
I'm not about to launch into awhole life story, I promise, but
(03:29):
I will say it did begin atthe age of four when I started playing
classical piano. I started getting classicalpiano training after my parents discovered that I
was just picking melodies out by earon the piano. They said, get
this kid some lessons. I startedplaying piano, and I started getting really
good at stuff like playing Bach andMozart as a young kid, and I
(03:52):
became known as Jeff the piano guyfor the first twenty years of my life.
And I loved that classical music stuffbecause it let me take the notes
that were on the page. Icould play exactly what was on the page,
and everyone says, oh, Jeff, you're amazing. So it was
a direct link from I can dothis, and everyone strokes my ego,
and I just thought that was amazing. And so there was a day when
(04:16):
I was getting a lot of myreps in with public performance with music on
Sunday mornings and church, and therewas a day that one of the older
musicians at the church, she kindof called me out and she said,
Jeff, it's all well and goodto play the notes on the page,
but at some point, when youget older, you have to learn to
play from your soul. Wow.And so I was in elementary school when
(04:42):
she told me this, maybe tenor eleven years old, and everyone was
telling me that I was doing amazing, and I thought this lady was absolutely
full of it. I just thoughtthat was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard.
So I ignored her until years laterwhen I actually learned how to bring
these songs to life, how toactually elevate the notes on the page into
(05:05):
something more. That's when people startedresponding differently when I would play, and
so instead of saying, oh,Jeff, play, you're an amazing piano
player, they would say, Jeff, that song was the exact song that
I needed to hear. Thank you, thank you for that. And every
once in a while, everything linesup and someone reaches out to me and
says, Jeff, the way youplayed today brought me into an encounter with
(05:27):
God, and they say thank you, thank you, thank you for what
you brought to the world today.And what I realized was Number One,
the lady was right, you haveto it's you know, we're all doing
the best that we can playing thenotes on the page. But there is
an upper level to which I couldtake that ordinary message and elevate it into
(05:49):
something extraordinary. And I realized thatthat's what that lady was really talking about.
And that's what I've been doing myentire life ever since, all the
way in high in high school withvideo production, in college with radio,
and in film school, and twentyyears in Hollywood, taking regular messages and
elevating them to something extraordinary. Andthat's what I do now. I help
(06:14):
business experts and advisors do that exactsame thing within the context of their business
so that they can elevate the resultsof their people and their business. That
is going back to your question ofwhat is a visionary storyteller? I found
that that is really that that titlereally comes down to the idea of strategic
(06:35):
storytelling and the difference between what everyoneknows or thinks they knows as tactical storytelling,
but really the power that comes fromthe strategic side of things. That's
so awesome and it's so funny.As you were saying that, it made
me think. It's the difference betweenjust doing something for someone versus actually impacting
(06:59):
their life, for impacting their day, which is so important. And I
think that many of us, youknow, especially in leadership roles, typically
aimed to do that but maybe getlost along the way, just you know,
through the demands of day to daylife. But you mentioned strategic storytelling,
How is that relevant in the workplaceas a whole? How do you
(07:20):
see that taking place when it comesto leaders in their teams. Sure,
in order for this to land,got to set up a few things.
If you forget everything else we talkabout today, make sure you remember this.
I want to make sure that peopleknow that strategic storytelling is not just
a way of communicating. It isa way of thinking that informs are doing.
(07:44):
So the way that we find strategicstorytelling impactful in business and among people
stems from what strategic storytelling is.Now, it's easy to talk about story
and to think, oh, well, we know what that is. You
just kind of sleep on it becausewell, everyone either things they know or
(08:05):
has the idea of what it's liketo tell a tactical story. You tell
a story over the water cooler,or you're hanging out with friends or family
over a meal or something like that. We're all familiar with that. But
story has two sides. It hasthe tactical side and it has the upper
level strategic side. And when weexperience a tactical story and we feel something,
(08:28):
you know, we've all felt theimpact of a story that really lands
with us and really makes the pointand things really hit hard. The power
of that comes from the strategic sideof things. That's where it comes from
when it's done well. So here'show we understand what strategic storytelling is.
So it comes from a core definitionof what a story is. And for
(08:50):
people who are familiar with the writingsof Donald Miller and building a story brand,
this actually comes from some of hisearlier works, some of his fiction
work. Actually it's some semi autobiographicalanyway, getting off point here he talks
about and I expand it into thisdefinition of a story, which says a
story is where a character wants something, overcomes obstacles to get it, and
(09:13):
experiences transformation as a result. Now, these here are fundamental narrative elements,
the ideas of identity, the identityof a character, desire, what do
people want, obstacles, what's gettingin their way? And change? What
do we want to see happen?And so when you think that through those
(09:35):
ideas don't just describe a well told, strategic story, they actually describe any
interaction between any human being. Ever. And if it seems like I'm exaggerating
at all, I promise you I'mnot, because it really is that wide
ranging. It still kind of blowsmy mind to think about it. It's
not just a way of communicating,it's a way of thinking that informs how
(09:58):
we do it. So all thisto say how do we apply this to
business? Well, it's incredibly relevantbecause when we talk about the challenge of
taking the story of our business,the story of ourselves as leaders people within
that business, and lining that storyof our business or ourselves and lining that
(10:20):
up with all the other storylines thateveryone else is living right now, lining
that up so everyone gets what theywant. That is strategic storytelling and action,
and that is interaction and business everyminute of every day. Who is
involved, what do they want?What's getting in their way? We could
(10:41):
go all kinds of directions from there, but what are your thoughts on?
Absolutely, And I'm so engulfed inwhat you're saying in actually putting it into
place in my mind, because you'reright, it is seen in our daily
interactions and especially in the workplace.My thought also leads me to the overall
impact of those who are not inleadership, but let's say team members,
(11:07):
when it comes to strategic storytelling andhow leaders can leverage it in your work,
how have you seen change or transformationfrom strategic storytelling. Yes, I'm
stoked that you asked, because becausefor a very long time I scratched my
head and said, Okay, thisis really cool and these are cool ideas,
(11:28):
and at the same time it feelsreally kind of squishy and undefined,
and how do you put this intoaction? How do you put some boots
on the ground on this, Andso, you know, just speaking in
broad terms, you know, whenyou think of people interacting with other people,
I mean that is the very coreof what business is. So,
for instance, within my client work, most of my clients that I work
(11:54):
with are business experts or advisors andthey're looking to develop their public facing presence
as thought leaders. So if youare showing up as a thought leader,
as someone with expertise within your fieldof business, and you're showing up on
a business podcast or on a webinar, or you're doing a presentation in person
and you are talking about those kindof things, well, you're putting a
(12:16):
message to the ideal audience who willrespond to you, and you're developing leads
that go into your pipeline. Youdevelop those turn into sales, that turns
into revenue. So I mean that'skind of a general idea in terms of
how my clients typically use this,but a specific example. I love hearing
(12:37):
these examples because it's just reinforces howcool this stuff is one of my clients
is a virtual CFO, a fractionalCFO. Her name is Hannah, and
she supports multiple clients on her end, and so one of her clients was
really concerned about protecting the value ofher business because at one point, this
(12:58):
client wanted to sell her business andin the meantime, she really really cared
about her people and compensating them fairly. And she was just torn up because
it seemed like they were fundamentally atodds. And Hannah and I were talking
about, Okay, how do weapproach this, how do we think about
this within the context of strategic storytellingand the tools that we put into place,
(13:22):
and we use some tools that helpedHannah present the case to her client
such that you don't have to choosebetween the value of your business and the
value of your people. You canchoose both. And it completely changed the
way Hannah presented what she looked intofor putting together a forecast for the numbers
(13:45):
for the business, and the waythat she presented the ideas. When she
was done, eventually, the clientwas literally in tears of happiness because she
felt so incredibly relieved that she didn'thave to choose between the two, she
could have them both. So otherthan the idea of you know, you
have a visible emotional reaction from anend client, and clients who have that
(14:09):
kind of reaction, they are goingto stay longer and they are going to
give your business money. Yes,but it all begins with the It all
begins with the way of how wethink, how we present these ideas,
and how that's received by this specificend client. So it all starts with
strategic storytelling and it ends up beingimplemented in all kinds of different ways.
(14:31):
I mean, give you could applythis towards client service like a lot of
my clients do. You can alsoapply this to internal culture, employer retention,
conflict resolution, you name it.It can show up anywhere. That's
a great story that you mentioned inI'm glad that you mentioned the culture building
aspect, similar to how you wereable to help Hannah approach her and client
(14:56):
better and give her a different perspectiveof how she can do both of the
things that she was trying to choosebetween doing in culture building, How could
a leader, how could a businessowner who's noticing issues with employee retention or
just overall low morale, toxic anddysfunctional culture overall, How can they use
(15:20):
strategic storytelling to help change the trajectoryof a toxic culture and make it something
that's more engaging. Well, I'mnot going to stand here and say that
all you have to do is telltactical stories and things magically change, because
absolutely I would Yes, I completelyagree. So having said that, what
(15:46):
I would say is, whenever thereis conflict, or whenever there is there
are on that goals of whatever flavor, it means that someone somewhere isn't getting
what they want. Yes, soit's our job as leaders to say,
Okay, let's put on the detectivehat. Who is involved? What do
(16:07):
they want? What's getting in theirway? I call it story alignment.
You have your storyline, whether you'rethe owner or the leader or the manager
or whatever position you're in, andit can be as equally as applicable if
you are a member at the proverbialbottom of the totem pole of any given
team. Because when we start thinkingof this stuff, and we think of
(16:30):
okay, who are all the entitiesin play here, what are their stories?
Who wants? What, what's gettingin their way? What's lining up?
What's not lining up, and howcan we get these stories to line
up. That's the starting point ofhow we say, Okay, who's not
getting what they want? What arethe values that we have here at the
company? And it's where all thoseother elements, all those other weeds of
(16:52):
the implementation in terms of culture,yes, you know, the company mission,
the vision, the values, howwe do things here, what we
say we want versus what we actuallydo and all that. That's where we
start going down that road. Butagain, it can all be wrapped up
(17:14):
into this framework of thinking, whoare the characters, what do they want,
what's getting in their way, andwhat's the change that we want to
see happen. I love that,and I love that you mentioned story alignment.
I honestly don't believe I've heard thatterm before, and I haven't either.
You should. You should, becauseI'm interested to know how does story
(17:37):
alignment fit into the overall picture ofstrategic storytelling, because I in my mind
the way I picture this as you'reexplaining it. You know, obviously there's
in a sense of process or thereare some keys that you need to have
and implement in order to be successfulin not just storytelling, but it being
strategic and if it's strategic then meansit leads to a certain output, it
(18:02):
leads to a goal that we're tryingto reach. So my mind is,
you know, the wheels are spinning, like, how does this process actually
look? How does it start fromthe beginning and get to this ankle?
So I would like to know fromyou, similar to story alignment, what
is your overall process that you knowsomeone who's listening to this could hear and
(18:23):
say, you know, I wouldlike to be better at storytelling. I
would like to be more strategic inconnecting with people that I work with or
those that I'm leading. What arethe steps or the keys that would help
them do that? Well, Iwould say number one. The challenge to
this is the concept of strategic storytellingthat we've been talking about so far.
(18:45):
It's so broad ranging, and it'sso it's so applicable in so many ways.
It's hard to wrap your head arounduntil you actually plug it into a
specific area of implementation exactly what you'rejust saying. And so it depends on
the specific area that we're talking about, whether we're talking about, Okay,
(19:07):
there's a team member who is underperforming, or there's a vendor who isn't delivering,
or there is miscommunication, or there'sconflict within leadership and investors or the
board or whatever. So number one, it's really going to depend on any
given situation. But just to givethis as an example, it's like,
(19:30):
Okay, how can we take thisidea of story alignment and put it into
play in a specific example. Soanother one of my clients, as a
guy by the name of Tom,who is also a virtual and fractional CFO.
I tend to work a lot withpeople within the financial advisory world,
and he was working with a clientwho is dealing with the scenario where there
(19:52):
was a tax law that changed andthat made some very specific changes required to
the companies to that end client it'scompany tax return, and the CEO was
not happy about this. He waspushing back to Tom my client and saying,
no, that we were going todo it this way like we've always
done. And Tom is saying,well, dude, the laws have changed,
(20:14):
you can't do that, and theCEO just wasn't getting it. And
so you have a scenario there,Okay, how do we apply the idea
of story alignment to this? SoTom wants to give excellent service to his
client. The obstacle getting in theway is the client is not happy because
he wants something that's out of linewith what Tom is able and legally allowed
(20:34):
in this case to deliver in termsof the implementation of that tax return with
the team that he was directing.So you have a mismatch because the end
client he wanted to keep things theway they were, but we ended up
needing to have happened. As Tomand I worked through this scenario together with
some of the tools that we useduring our sessions, we figured out,
(20:56):
okay, well, what is actuallythe issue in play? What is the
problem that really has to be dealtwith right here? And we figured that
out. It was really based aroundthe client's understanding of what Tom was wanting
to see happen. And so afterwe worked through those, Tom said,
Okay, I'm going to go tohim and present this idea and see how
(21:18):
he says. And the result ofthat from one conversation, which, by
the way, if this issue hadn'tgotten resolved, that client most certainly would
have left the company that employed Tom. A large client with large fees going
to this company and with one conversationbased around these thinking tools about Okay,
(21:40):
what are the actual fundamental issues atplay? Tom was able to talk that
CEO off the ledge, help himsee things differently, and not only did
that client not leave, but itpreserved almost two hundred thousand dollars of future
revenue for the company. Wow.So that is a real life story alignment
(22:00):
exercise where it comes down to,Okay, what are the perceptions, what
do people want? And what's gettingin the way of that. So it's
crazy powerful stuff, it is.But to that it can be applied so
many different ways, and frankly,in so many different ways that are completely
outside my own wheelhouse to even talkabout. I mean, sure you have
(22:25):
a wealth of experience. I'm sureyou could apply this within your own world.
Well, thank you. And it'sfunny because as you're talking, even
though this is, you know,related to how they were able to save
money and things of that nature ina specific situation for your client and his
client, it's funny because I wasinstantly thinking, like the basis of this
(22:45):
from just this conversation alone, thatI've noticed is really just stepping back,
yes, problem solving, but morethan that, it's really the dynamic between
human and human just the connection itself, and I think that that gets overlooked
oftentimes, especially you know, inthe workplace or just when we're going about
(23:07):
our day to day lives, becausemore often than not, usually we have
an agenda, we have our ownset of things that we're looking to accomplish,
or even needs that we want metourselves. But when we take the
time, especially in a leadership role, to just really ask the questions that
you're asking, what is the obstaclehere, what does this person or this
(23:30):
team want, what is stopping usfrom getting there? It seems so simple
because it is. In reality,it's very simple, But I think it
becomes more complicated because we in humannature and human form, we tend to
complicate it or we just completely overlookit. So yeah, I like the
(23:52):
stories that you're telling me because Ithink it sort of grounds us back to
just keeping it simple, keeping inthe forefront of our minds and our intention
what we're doing it for, andit's really to be of service to people.
It's really to help people and impacttheir lives. So how do we
do that by removing obstacles, whichis really the definition of leadership in my
(24:14):
opinion. Yeah, I think oneof the big things about this is it's
easy within the concept of leadership orgoal setting or you know, I know
you've worked with some educational institutions andschool districts, you know, measuring up
to state standards or or or thosekind of benchmarks. It's easy to focus
(24:36):
on hitting those numbers to the exclusionpotentially of what's happening in the hearts of
the the hearts and minds of thepeople who are helping us get there,
and if we don't take those intoeffects. I mean, man, I
do not envy school administrators these days. Yes, I mean it's a challenge
(25:02):
for sure. Yeah, just fromthe standpoint of teacher morale, constantly being
asked to do more with less,constantly being pushed to, oh, we
got to hit these numbers, wegot to hit these standards. We you
know, we're falling behind, orthese kids are creating issues for everyone to
just I can't imagine it. Itsounds, it sounds incredibly challenging. It
(25:23):
definitely is. And in working withschool districts, I've heard some stories and
typically a lot of times in mywork with them, I'm working with the
administrative staff and they go through alot, so you can just imagine how
a team of administrative staff can gothrough so much in you know, dealing
(25:45):
with parents, dealing with industry youknow, standards, and dealing with the
students and also not quite feeling likethey're being heard or getting their needs met
or offsticles removed from their path fromthose who they're reporting too. And that's
not just a challenge within school district, it's a challenge within many of you
(26:07):
know, workplaces across different industries.But I'm so glad that you even brought
up the idea of making sure thatyou're reaching these standards, these educational standards,
and these metrics that are set.When it comes to business leaders,
I'm curious to know how can theymeasure the benefit or success rate of focusing
(26:30):
on strategic storytelling in their overall leadershippractices and even their executive level missions and
how they run a business. Howhave you been able to see that there
are a gazillion ways that one couldimplement this. Yes, So if you
want to go within the marketing context, for instance, I mean, any
business is going to have your keyperformance indicators. You're going to have numbers,
(26:56):
are we heading these tangible elements not? And when you have baselines of
any given KPI that you can hita number on, then you have the
opportunity to introduce this alternate way ofthinking, you know, driven by a
strategic storytelling. However one decides toimplement that in one's own specialty. When
(27:19):
you have a baseline, then youintroduce the change, and then you can
say, okay, have any ofthese KPIs changed. That's one primary way
that any leader can measure the impactof this. Now when it comes to
things more drawn out or maybe deeplyrooted as a culture within an entire institution,
(27:41):
you know, because the larger aninstitution is, the more deeply ingrained
culture becomes, and it's trying toIt's the difference between turning a rowboat versus
turning an ocean lighter, you know. So sometimes it's tempting to say,
okay, have these KPIs. Youknow, even if you want to measure
employee morale by number of complaints launchedin any given timeframe, the question is,
(28:07):
okay, well has this changed ordo we need to give it more
time to change? Or have wereally done the work to say, okay,
well, are these really the issuesin play? So that's what I
would offer within a measurement context isto say, Okay, how can we
get baselines within our given areas.Get that baseline, introduce the new ideas,
(28:33):
introduce the new way of thinking orthe new approach, and then measure
the KPIs that we've set and seewhat the change is. I agree with
that, and I like that youmentioned give it more time, because when
I hear strategic storytelling, it's definitelycommunication focused. It's definitely something that is
used as a tool, but inmy opinion, I think it's more so
(28:55):
as an approach that anyone, butespecially leaders can use to enhance their leadership
and use it as a tool toleverage how they connect with their teams and
impact the lives and the work performanceof their teams. The thing that popped
into my head as you were sayingthat was the idea of this is not
a replacement for skill sets. Thisis not a replacement for knowledge and experience.
(29:22):
It's a framework to guide it absolutely, and so much of the time.
What happens when we do this isit shifts the focus off ourselves onto
others. Absolutely to the idea ofservice, yes, which is key in
leadership. I mean, it's oneof the only ways, if not the
(29:42):
only way to be successful in leadership. And back to what you mentioned of
giving it more time, just likewe have to give ourselves more time to
put into practice the things we've learnedas leaders, we have to give more
time to developing our munication skills.We have to give more time into wanting
(30:03):
to see the results of how effectiveemployee engagement is. Those things don't happen
overnight, but it's more of usof a skill set, an added skill
set. In my opinion from youknow this conversation, what I've gathered,
it's an added skill set that leaderscan use to not only reach the goals
of the team, but to ultimatelyimpact the lives of their team and really
(30:29):
enhance that connection. Because I'm suremy listeners probably know where I'm going with
this, and they probably know whatI'm going to say. You know,
employee engagement is not an HR responsibility, and I do believe that many people
in leadership tend to get cut onthat because you know, the HR surveys
it comes from that specific team ordepartment. So it's oh, employee engagement,
(30:52):
you know, it's a survey,it's a program. No, it's
a relationship and being a leader,you have to be good at relationship building,
and I love what you express aboututilizing strategic storytelling to be able to
do that and to do that moreeffectively and see results in that. And
I will say, once you havethat in place, one of the most
powerful ways that a leader can sharethat process with the rest of our team
(31:18):
is through tactical storytelling. The ideaof let me tell you about a time
when I experienced something very similar tothis. I was in this scenario.
I was experiencing this and here's whatI wanted. It wasn't working. I
had no idea what to do.Here's what I did to get around it.
And here's what I learned. Andhere's what I'd like to offer to
(31:41):
you in this situation, fellow teammember, to say, I think we
might have something in common right here, what do you think this situation might
call for, just as a beginningof that conversation and letting people continue,
because I mean, we don't havetime to go off on this whole other
rabbit trail of what telling a storyactually does physiologically to the brain and the
(32:07):
chemistry of the people who are hearingit. It literally creates human connection via
chemical hardwired chemicals. This is whathappens when we experience a tactical story.
But again, it all comes backto the power that comes from the upper
level strategic ideas. What are thetrue desires and obstacles at play? And
(32:31):
how can we communicate that in atactical story when we're in one on one
or one to many engagements. Sothat is also a very tactical, tangible
way that you can put that bigpicture thinking into play. I'm so glad
that you gave that example of justhow to frame the conversation and how a
(32:53):
simple way that you can just approachit with someone on your team or a
colleague or whomever. Like we talkedabout earlier, It's very simple, but
we can complicate it so much bymaking it this big broad thing. But
that example, I think is sohelpful and so simple that you can just
it just starts the wheels to spendto rethink, well, how can I
(33:14):
approach someone who I've been experiencing conflictwith or it doesn't seem like we're able
to get through to you know,being able to overcome this issue. How
can I, as the person inleadership, approach this differently to get a
different result, to make them feelheard, that they aren't being barked down
to or just told again how they'redoing something wrong. That's such a good
(33:38):
way and just a simple way todo that. And I'm so glad that
you share that example. And italso made me think that someone hearing utilizing
strategic storytelling in your leadership practices soundsa little bit like fluff or like,
you know, that's yeah, soit's you know, that's a myth.
You know, how does that actuallyhelp get rid results? And you know
(34:00):
in your experience, you know,you've worked with major television networks and things
of that nature. So I cansee how someone hears that and thinks that's
not relevant to what I do,because I'm not telling a story on TV,
I'm not telling a story in abook. I'm not telling a story
in an entertainment fashion. What aresome other myths that you've seen or that
(34:24):
you believe people believe about strategic storytellingthat we could debunk right now to make
it more relatable and realistic for themto apply in their every day encounters.
Sure, the first thing that comesto mind is what you just talked about,
because on the face of it.It seems like creating content for all
(34:45):
these media companies in Los Angeles isa completely separate world from the day to
day world of business, which insome ways, yes, it is.
In other ways. You know,one of the tools that I always talk
about with my clients the idea ofthe thing under the thing. What are
the true psychological and emotional drivers behindany specific thing that happens. You know,
(35:10):
when you hear a story and youfeel some twinge of whatever emotion you're
feeling something, and it's not justbecause of the words that are being spoken,
it's because of the meaning that isattached to those words and the meaning
that you attach to them. Sowithin the picture of creating content in Hollywood,
(35:30):
the number one goal that we wantis for people to keep watching so
we can show you more advertisements andmake money. That is how Hollywood works.
We create an experience that holds people'sattention so that we can show advertisements.
That is the business model, that'sthe economic driver. But the reason
why it's so compelling is the storymakes people pay attention. Now that that's
(35:58):
where we can make some crossover.Because whenever you can get someone to pay
attention and to listen and to engage. And the more that you dig into
the modern research of what storytelling doeswith the concept of narrative transportation, it
literally creates empathy in the listener.They begin to internally empathize with elements of
(36:21):
the characters and the stories that they'rehearing. As business leaders, when we
can apply those kind of ideas toour team members, we can get them
to listen, we can get themto understand. That's what Hollywood can bring
to business, the idea of listening, staying focused, understanding so that we
(36:42):
can then move into action. Howeverwe want to make that happen. So
that's the number one corollary that Isee there is this is the overarching value
of what content does in Hollywood andhow it can apply to business. I
love that. Thank you so muchfor explaining that. I know that this
is going to be helpful for someonejust to not think of it as this
(37:06):
big thing, that's this Hollywood thing, or you have to be in entertainment.
No, it's every day again,it's just drilling down. And I
love that you mentioned the thing underthe thing. That's really what it is.
And you know we have to putour mcgui ra hats on sometimes and
you know, really just go astep further, pull out our tools and
use them to get to the effectiveresult that we're looking for. Well,
(37:27):
and if I could jump in onthat, I would also say what I
was just doing in that example,right, there was referencing the thing under
the thing, but the connection betweenthe two worlds, Yes, might be
described as the thing over the thing. What is the higher level thing that
connects things together? What's the higherlevel pattern match, the higher level similarity?
(37:51):
What is the thing over the thing? How is this like that?
And that is where you know,you can take the thinking up to a
bigger picture, or you can takethe thinking down to the deeper psychological and
emotional levels. And that's the kindof stuff that a great screenwriter will do,
a world class copywriter in the businessworld will do. But man,
(38:14):
a lot of the times when we'releaving a team, that's not our skill
set. Yes, yes, that'snot our world. And so you talk
about deeper levels of psychological and emotionalmotivation, and people's eyes could start to
glaze over until you tell them whyit matters and how it can change the
results that you get in business.Yes, that is so true, And
(38:36):
I can speak for myself. Imean, when I got into leadership,
I knew nothing about it. Ithought I did, I thought I had
all the answers, and I hada rude awakening. Not because I was
behaving out of malice or I wasthis bad person or had all these bad
intentions or I just wanted to bosspeople. It wasn't any of that.
I just simply didn't know how.And I could bet that miny of us
(39:00):
have had that same experience in someways. Oftentimes you get promoted or you
get these opportunities, and it doesn'tnecessarily mean that you come into it out
of the gate having those soft skillsthat help you be impactful and effective in
leadership. But it's the choice ofdeciding what is it that I really want
to bring to the table. Andthat again goes into some of the questions
(39:24):
that you asked earlier, you know, just really being reflective and trying to
look at it from a different perspectiveand reframe the thinking so that you can
ultimately connect with those who you're leadingand that you're working with. So I
completely agree with that, and Imean, I personally will be heavily practicing
a strategic storytelling because it's so usefuland oftentimes we don't even realize we do
(39:46):
it. You know, you're justtalking. But it's finding that commonality or
deciding how do we get deeper intothis and figure out what's going on or
how do we connect that. Ilike the idea of really approaching every situation
that way. I think that that'shelpful for everyone who's in leadership. For
(40:07):
sure. I would say that's oneof the most powerful things that one can
do when crafting any kind of storyat a tactical level or a strategic level.
Is the idea of this is likethat, what are the similarities here?
Where have we seen this kind ofan obstacle or a conflict before?
And what did the people in thatother scenario do, and what might that
(40:30):
apply to us here? If oneis a leader delivering a tactical story to
a group or to an individual,that is where the power of storytelling really
lands for the audience is when youconnect this is what happened in the storyline,
and it's kind of like what Isee happening here, This is like
(40:52):
that. It's those two comparisons ofwhat's happening in the story, and that
gets the your audience to listen tothat story and become engaged in that other
scenario, and they get to realizefor themselves, oh, that's the same
thing that's happening here. Okay,yes exactly. It allows them to have
(41:14):
a part in discovering that for themselves, and it engages their brain in a
different way. It's a very verypowerful thing. It's absolutely powerful, and
I also think that it creates asafe space for those whoever the audience is,
it's team members, whatever the caseis, When they get that connection
and they can relate it to somethingelse, I think it gives them,
(41:35):
in a sense, permission to beable to open more about their thoughts,
their ideas, or even some questionsthat they may have around whatever the subject
matter is. But it creates asafe space for them to engage, and
I think that that's also very powerfulin storytelling. I would also caution people
(41:55):
that when you tell a story,it is very very important to know why
you're telling the story. Because youcan have all the elements in place,
you can know exactly what's going down. You can even have all the psychological
and emotional elements dialed in to wherethey actually are. And if you tell
this story for the purpose of makingyourself look good so you get what you
(42:21):
want. As the leader, goodluck getting your audience to buy in,
because when your audience is listening toa story, the audience is receiving that
story as the hero of their ownstoryline. They want to get what they
want, which most of the timeI mean as a leader, you're talking
to another team member, unless there'ssomething really out of balance, chances are
(42:45):
that team member wants to help youget what you want. They want to
keep their job, they want todo a good job within the context of
the business. But ultimately, everyoneis thinking of their own story, and
everyone is the hero of their ownstory. So if we as leaders tell
stories that are all about us andtalking about how we're amazing and how we
(43:06):
figured it out in the past,it's going to be a very different result
compared to if we are leaders sayingthis is what I learned, and I'm
offering that to you because I thinkwe might be in a similar situation right
here. Because in that scenario,we're offering the story because we're here to
be of service to our audience,to help our audience along in their storyline.
(43:30):
When they're the hero of their ownstory. I love that you said
that so much. I think thatthat is very very important to know and
truth be told. I was goingto wrap things up, and I was
going to ask you what was onething if you had to share. I
know you've given a lot of goodinformation, but if there was one thing
(43:52):
that you could share, you know, for the listeners who want to start
to try to apply a strategic storytelling. You again, you've given a
lot of things that they can doimmediately, but I was going to ask
you to just wrap it up withone little actual thing. But I think
what you just said did that peoplewant to be the heroes in their own
(44:12):
storytelling, and to tell the story, you have to know why you're doing
it. And I just loved Ilove that you shared that, because we
as humans can get caught up intelling our own story for whatever reason we
have with our own personal interests.But this requires us to be strategic in
(44:32):
making sure that we are coming atit from a place of trying to connect
with others and to solve problems forthem and to be of service to them.
So thank you. If I may, I want to enhance that yes
by saying that when we think aboutwhat that definition of a story is a
story as a character who wants something, overcomes obstacles and experiences transformation as a
(44:58):
result. The entire pl point ofany story, of any interaction between any
human being is to see some kindof change happen. Yes, and when
we are approaching this first from thebig picture strategic viewpoint of who are these
characters? Who are all the characters, what do they want, what's getting
(45:21):
in their way? And then howcan I help them get what they want?
The result of that is changed foreveryone, and that is something that
is always worth seeking. Absolutely,thank you so much for this. I
want to ask a few more questions, but I can't. I know where
most of our time, But Ithink that just means we should probably have
(45:44):
another conversation again at some point,because I think this was very, very
valuable. And I'm a firm believerthat being a great leader isn't about knowing
everything or having all of the quoteunquote hard skills. It's the soft skills
that matter away awareness, being ableto communicate, and in this instance,
knowing how to use strategic storytelling.And I think that this was a very
(46:07):
helpful conversation that gets leaders to thinkoutside the box, you know, and
really just look at things from adifferent perspective. Thank you so much,
Jeff. I really appreciate this.My pleasure, Deanna. Thank you.
Yes, Now, if anyone wantsto get in contact with you, or
they have more questions, or they'rejust overall curious about how they can get
(46:28):
even deeper into the world of strategicstorytelling, how can they do that.
There's one place to go. Itis specifically for listeners of your show.
You can find that at the urlstory greenlight dot com slash culture building.
That's storygreenlight dot com slash culture Building. There's some resources there on how to
(46:49):
build your own tactical stories, someof the checklists on how to start putting
those elements together. There's a linkthere for my podcast, and there's also
a way to get an touch thereif this is something that you want to
put into action for yourself and towork with me directly. So love to
see you there. Awesome, Thankyou again, Jeff. I really appreciate
you being on the show. Mypleasure. Dianna
How do we apply this to business. Well, it's incredibly relevant because when
we talk about the challenge of takingthe story of our business, the story
of ourselves as leaders, and liningthat up with all the other storylines that
everyone else is living right now,so everyone gets what they want. That
is strategic storytelling and action, andthat is interaction and business every minute of
(00:23):
every day. If you tell thisstory for the purpose of making yourself look
good so you get what you wantas the leader, good luck getting your
audience to buy in. Because whenyour audience is listening to a story,
the audience is receiving that story asthe hero of their own storyline. They
want to get what they want.The story makes people pay attention. Welcome
(00:49):
to the Culture Building like a propodcast, helping small business owners and managers
lead a company culture where employees areengaged to do their best work ye if
they want to and not because theyhave to. Now, let's jumpstart your
culture transformation with company culture Strategists,leadership coach and trainer Deanna Appling. Jeff
(01:12):
Barche is a visionary storyteller, communicationstrategists and founder at story Greenlight with over
twenty years of experience in the entertainmentindustry and online business. Jeff has helped
shape content for clients including ABC,NBC, Universal, Disney, Apple,
and many others. Jeff's commentary hasbeen featured in major publications including Time Magazine,
(01:38):
USA Today, and the Associated Press. Through Story Greenlight, Jeff and
his team empower business experts and leadersto tell their stories, serve more clients,
and expand their impact in the world. He believes that the power of
story is within reach of everyone andthat human connection is everything. Thank you
(01:59):
so much for joining the show today, Jeff. It's an honor to be
here. Diana looking forward to this. Yes, I am as well,
and it was so nice meeting younot too long ago and finding out that
we both are in the greater Clevelandarea. That doesn't happen too often,
so Northeast Ohio, baby, Yes, where we are. Yes, And
it's a snowy day today, butit's nice to have a fellow Calves fan
(02:21):
on the show. Well, beforewe dive into the episode, which I'm
very excited about. Being a visionarystoryteller is something that is very specific and
unique, even it's not a rolethat we hear of too often. So
before we get into all of thedetails. I think it will be helpful
to explain to the listeners exactly whata visionary storyteller is and more importantly,
(02:44):
how your path kind of led youto that. Sure, well that's you
know what. That is actually thefirst time anyone has ever asked me that,
really, so props to you.It's actually it's actually a reflection on
what took me almost forty years ofmy life to figure out. When people
(03:05):
look me up online, they see, Okay, Jeff, you're the TV
guy. You spent twenty years inHollywood, and they think, well,
that's where you learned all about communicationand storytelling, which it's true. I
mean, the bulk of my professionalcareer was honed during that time, but
the foundation for all that came throughoutthe entire rest of my life, which
I'm not about to launch into awhole life story, I promise, but
(03:29):
I will say it did begin atthe age of four when I started playing
classical piano. I started getting classicalpiano training after my parents discovered that I
was just picking melodies out by earon the piano. They said, get
this kid some lessons. I startedplaying piano, and I started getting really
good at stuff like playing Bach andMozart as a young kid, and I
(03:52):
became known as Jeff the piano guyfor the first twenty years of my life.
And I loved that classical music stuffbecause it let me take the notes
that were on the page. Icould play exactly what was on the page,
and everyone says, oh, Jeff, you're amazing. So it was
a direct link from I can dothis, and everyone strokes my ego,
and I just thought that was amazing. And so there was a day when
(04:16):
I was getting a lot of myreps in with public performance with music on
Sunday mornings and church, and therewas a day that one of the older
musicians at the church, she kindof called me out and she said,
Jeff, it's all well and goodto play the notes on the page,
but at some point, when youget older, you have to learn to
play from your soul. Wow.And so I was in elementary school when
(04:42):
she told me this, maybe tenor eleven years old, and everyone was
telling me that I was doing amazing, and I thought this lady was absolutely
full of it. I just thoughtthat was the stupidest thing I'd ever heard.
So I ignored her until years laterwhen I actually learned how to bring
these songs to life, how toactually elevate the notes on the page into
(05:05):
something more. That's when people startedresponding differently when I would play, and
so instead of saying, oh,Jeff, play, you're an amazing piano
player, they would say, Jeff, that song was the exact song that
I needed to hear. Thank you, thank you for that. And every
once in a while, everything linesup and someone reaches out to me and
says, Jeff, the way youplayed today brought me into an encounter with
(05:27):
God, and they say thank you, thank you, thank you for what
you brought to the world today.And what I realized was Number One,
the lady was right, you haveto it's you know, we're all doing
the best that we can playing thenotes on the page. But there is
an upper level to which I couldtake that ordinary message and elevate it into
(05:49):
something extraordinary. And I realized thatthat's what that lady was really talking about.
And that's what I've been doing myentire life ever since, all the
way in high in high school withvideo production, in college with radio,
and in film school, and twentyyears in Hollywood, taking regular messages and
elevating them to something extraordinary. Andthat's what I do now. I help
(06:14):
business experts and advisors do that exactsame thing within the context of their business
so that they can elevate the resultsof their people and their business. That
is going back to your question ofwhat is a visionary storyteller? I found
that that is really that that titlereally comes down to the idea of strategic
(06:35):
storytelling and the difference between what everyoneknows or thinks they knows as tactical storytelling,
but really the power that comes fromthe strategic side of things. That's
so awesome and it's so funny.As you were saying that, it made
me think. It's the difference betweenjust doing something for someone versus actually impacting
(06:59):
their life, for impacting their day, which is so important. And I
think that many of us, youknow, especially in leadership roles, typically
aimed to do that but maybe getlost along the way, just you know,
through the demands of day to daylife. But you mentioned strategic storytelling,
How is that relevant in the workplaceas a whole? How do you
(07:20):
see that taking place when it comesto leaders in their teams. Sure,
in order for this to land,got to set up a few things.
If you forget everything else we talkabout today, make sure you remember this.
I want to make sure that peopleknow that strategic storytelling is not just
a way of communicating. It isa way of thinking that informs are doing.
(07:44):
So the way that we find strategicstorytelling impactful in business and among people
stems from what strategic storytelling is.Now, it's easy to talk about story
and to think, oh, well, we know what that is. You
just kind of sleep on it becausewell, everyone either things they know or
(08:05):
has the idea of what it's liketo tell a tactical story. You tell
a story over the water cooler,or you're hanging out with friends or family
over a meal or something like that. We're all familiar with that. But
story has two sides. It hasthe tactical side and it has the upper
level strategic side. And when weexperience a tactical story and we feel something,
(08:28):
you know, we've all felt theimpact of a story that really lands
with us and really makes the pointand things really hit hard. The power
of that comes from the strategic sideof things. That's where it comes from
when it's done well. So here'show we understand what strategic storytelling is.
So it comes from a core definitionof what a story is. And for
(08:50):
people who are familiar with the writingsof Donald Miller and building a story brand,
this actually comes from some of hisearlier works, some of his fiction
work. Actually it's some semi autobiographicalanyway, getting off point here he talks
about and I expand it into thisdefinition of a story, which says a
story is where a character wants something, overcomes obstacles to get it, and
(09:13):
experiences transformation as a result. Now, these here are fundamental narrative elements,
the ideas of identity, the identityof a character, desire, what do
people want, obstacles, what's gettingin their way? And change? What
do we want to see happen?And so when you think that through those
(09:35):
ideas don't just describe a well told, strategic story, they actually describe any
interaction between any human being. Ever. And if it seems like I'm exaggerating
at all, I promise you I'mnot, because it really is that wide
ranging. It still kind of blowsmy mind to think about it. It's
not just a way of communicating,it's a way of thinking that informs how
(09:58):
we do it. So all thisto say how do we apply this to
business? Well, it's incredibly relevantbecause when we talk about the challenge of
taking the story of our business,the story of ourselves as leaders people within
that business, and lining that storyof our business or ourselves and lining that
(10:20):
up with all the other storylines thateveryone else is living right now, lining
that up so everyone gets what theywant. That is strategic storytelling and action,
and that is interaction and business everyminute of every day. Who is
involved, what do they want?What's getting in their way? We could
(10:41):
go all kinds of directions from there, but what are your thoughts on?
Absolutely, And I'm so engulfed inwhat you're saying in actually putting it into
place in my mind, because you'reright, it is seen in our daily
interactions and especially in the workplace.My thought also leads me to the overall
impact of those who are not inleadership, but let's say team members,
(11:07):
when it comes to strategic storytelling andhow leaders can leverage it in your work,
how have you seen change or transformationfrom strategic storytelling. Yes, I'm
stoked that you asked, because becausefor a very long time I scratched my
head and said, Okay, thisis really cool and these are cool ideas,
(11:28):
and at the same time it feelsreally kind of squishy and undefined,
and how do you put this intoaction? How do you put some boots
on the ground on this, Andso, you know, just speaking in
broad terms, you know, whenyou think of people interacting with other people,
I mean that is the very coreof what business is. So,
for instance, within my client work, most of my clients that I work
(11:54):
with are business experts or advisors andthey're looking to develop their public facing presence
as thought leaders. So if youare showing up as a thought leader,
as someone with expertise within your fieldof business, and you're showing up on
a business podcast or on a webinar, or you're doing a presentation in person
and you are talking about those kindof things, well, you're putting a
(12:16):
message to the ideal audience who willrespond to you, and you're developing leads
that go into your pipeline. Youdevelop those turn into sales, that turns
into revenue. So I mean that'skind of a general idea in terms of
how my clients typically use this,but a specific example. I love hearing
(12:37):
these examples because it's just reinforces howcool this stuff is one of my clients
is a virtual CFO, a fractionalCFO. Her name is Hannah, and
she supports multiple clients on her end, and so one of her clients was
really concerned about protecting the value ofher business because at one point, this
(12:58):
client wanted to sell her business andin the meantime, she really really cared
about her people and compensating them fairly. And she was just torn up because
it seemed like they were fundamentally atodds. And Hannah and I were talking
about, Okay, how do weapproach this, how do we think about
this within the context of strategic storytellingand the tools that we put into place,
(13:22):
and we use some tools that helpedHannah present the case to her client
such that you don't have to choosebetween the value of your business and the
value of your people. You canchoose both. And it completely changed the
way Hannah presented what she looked intofor putting together a forecast for the numbers
(13:45):
for the business, and the waythat she presented the ideas. When she
was done, eventually, the clientwas literally in tears of happiness because she
felt so incredibly relieved that she didn'thave to choose between the two, she
could have them both. So otherthan the idea of you know, you
have a visible emotional reaction from anend client, and clients who have that
(14:09):
kind of reaction, they are goingto stay longer and they are going to
give your business money. Yes,but it all begins with the It all
begins with the way of how wethink, how we present these ideas,
and how that's received by this specificend client. So it all starts with
strategic storytelling and it ends up beingimplemented in all kinds of different ways.
(14:31):
I mean, give you could applythis towards client service like a lot of
my clients do. You can alsoapply this to internal culture, employer retention,
conflict resolution, you name it.It can show up anywhere. That's
a great story that you mentioned inI'm glad that you mentioned the culture building
aspect, similar to how you wereable to help Hannah approach her and client
(14:56):
better and give her a different perspectiveof how she can do both of the
things that she was trying to choosebetween doing in culture building, How could
a leader, how could a businessowner who's noticing issues with employee retention or
just overall low morale, toxic anddysfunctional culture overall, How can they use
(15:20):
strategic storytelling to help change the trajectoryof a toxic culture and make it something
that's more engaging. Well, I'mnot going to stand here and say that
all you have to do is telltactical stories and things magically change, because
absolutely I would Yes, I completelyagree. So having said that, what
(15:46):
I would say is, whenever thereis conflict, or whenever there is there
are on that goals of whatever flavor, it means that someone somewhere isn't getting
what they want. Yes, soit's our job as leaders to say,
Okay, let's put on the detectivehat. Who is involved? What do
(16:07):
they want? What's getting in theirway? I call it story alignment.
You have your storyline, whether you'rethe owner or the leader or the manager
or whatever position you're in, andit can be as equally as applicable if
you are a member at the proverbialbottom of the totem pole of any given
team. Because when we start thinkingof this stuff, and we think of
(16:30):
okay, who are all the entitiesin play here, what are their stories?
Who wants? What, what's gettingin their way? What's lining up?
What's not lining up, and howcan we get these stories to line
up. That's the starting point ofhow we say, Okay, who's not
getting what they want? What arethe values that we have here at the
company? And it's where all thoseother elements, all those other weeds of
(16:52):
the implementation in terms of culture,yes, you know, the company mission,
the vision, the values, howwe do things here, what we
say we want versus what we actuallydo and all that. That's where we
start going down that road. Butagain, it can all be wrapped up
(17:14):
into this framework of thinking, whoare the characters, what do they want,
what's getting in their way, andwhat's the change that we want to
see happen. I love that,and I love that you mentioned story alignment.
I honestly don't believe I've heard thatterm before, and I haven't either.
You should. You should, becauseI'm interested to know how does story
(17:37):
alignment fit into the overall picture ofstrategic storytelling, because I in my mind
the way I picture this as you'reexplaining it. You know, obviously there's
in a sense of process or thereare some keys that you need to have
and implement in order to be successfulin not just storytelling, but it being
strategic and if it's strategic then meansit leads to a certain output, it
(18:02):
leads to a goal that we're tryingto reach. So my mind is,
you know, the wheels are spinning, like, how does this process actually
look? How does it start fromthe beginning and get to this ankle?
So I would like to know fromyou, similar to story alignment, what
is your overall process that you knowsomeone who's listening to this could hear and
(18:23):
say, you know, I wouldlike to be better at storytelling. I
would like to be more strategic inconnecting with people that I work with or
those that I'm leading. What arethe steps or the keys that would help
them do that? Well, Iwould say number one. The challenge to
this is the concept of strategic storytellingthat we've been talking about so far.
(18:45):
It's so broad ranging, and it'sso it's so applicable in so many ways.
It's hard to wrap your head arounduntil you actually plug it into a
specific area of implementation exactly what you'rejust saying. And so it depends on
the specific area that we're talking about, whether we're talking about, Okay,
(19:07):
there's a team member who is underperforming, or there's a vendor who isn't delivering,
or there is miscommunication, or there'sconflict within leadership and investors or the
board or whatever. So number one, it's really going to depend on any
given situation. But just to givethis as an example, it's like,
(19:30):
Okay, how can we take thisidea of story alignment and put it into
play in a specific example. Soanother one of my clients, as a
guy by the name of Tom,who is also a virtual and fractional CFO.
I tend to work a lot withpeople within the financial advisory world,
and he was working with a clientwho is dealing with the scenario where there
(19:52):
was a tax law that changed andthat made some very specific changes required to
the companies to that end client it'scompany tax return, and the CEO was
not happy about this. He waspushing back to Tom my client and saying,
no, that we were going todo it this way like we've always
done. And Tom is saying,well, dude, the laws have changed,
(20:14):
you can't do that, and theCEO just wasn't getting it. And
so you have a scenario there,Okay, how do we apply the idea
of story alignment to this? SoTom wants to give excellent service to his
client. The obstacle getting in theway is the client is not happy because
he wants something that's out of linewith what Tom is able and legally allowed
(20:34):
in this case to deliver in termsof the implementation of that tax return with
the team that he was directing.So you have a mismatch because the end
client he wanted to keep things theway they were, but we ended up
needing to have happened. As Tomand I worked through this scenario together with
some of the tools that we useduring our sessions, we figured out,
(20:56):
okay, well, what is actuallythe issue in play? What is the
problem that really has to be dealtwith right here? And we figured that
out. It was really based aroundthe client's understanding of what Tom was wanting
to see happen. And so afterwe worked through those, Tom said,
Okay, I'm going to go tohim and present this idea and see how
(21:18):
he says. And the result ofthat from one conversation, which, by
the way, if this issue hadn'tgotten resolved, that client most certainly would
have left the company that employed Tom. A large client with large fees going
to this company and with one conversationbased around these thinking tools about Okay,
(21:40):
what are the actual fundamental issues atplay? Tom was able to talk that
CEO off the ledge, help himsee things differently, and not only did
that client not leave, but itpreserved almost two hundred thousand dollars of future
revenue for the company. Wow.So that is a real life story alignment
(22:00):
exercise where it comes down to,Okay, what are the perceptions, what
do people want? And what's gettingin the way of that. So it's
crazy powerful stuff, it is.But to that it can be applied so
many different ways, and frankly,in so many different ways that are completely
outside my own wheelhouse to even talkabout. I mean, sure you have
(22:25):
a wealth of experience. I'm sureyou could apply this within your own world.
Well, thank you. And it'sfunny because as you're talking, even
though this is, you know,related to how they were able to save
money and things of that nature ina specific situation for your client and his
client, it's funny because I wasinstantly thinking, like the basis of this
(22:45):
from just this conversation alone, thatI've noticed is really just stepping back,
yes, problem solving, but morethan that, it's really the dynamic between
human and human just the connection itself, and I think that that gets overlooked
oftentimes, especially you know, inthe workplace or just when we're going about
(23:07):
our day to day lives, becausemore often than not, usually we have
an agenda, we have our ownset of things that we're looking to accomplish,
or even needs that we want metourselves. But when we take the
time, especially in a leadership role, to just really ask the questions that
you're asking, what is the obstaclehere, what does this person or this
(23:30):
team want, what is stopping usfrom getting there? It seems so simple
because it is. In reality,it's very simple, But I think it
becomes more complicated because we in humannature and human form, we tend to
complicate it or we just completely overlookit. So yeah, I like the
(23:52):
stories that you're telling me because Ithink it sort of grounds us back to
just keeping it simple, keeping inthe forefront of our minds and our intention
what we're doing it for, andit's really to be of service to people.
It's really to help people and impacttheir lives. So how do we
do that by removing obstacles, whichis really the definition of leadership in my
(24:14):
opinion. Yeah, I think oneof the big things about this is it's
easy within the concept of leadership orgoal setting or you know, I know
you've worked with some educational institutions andschool districts, you know, measuring up
to state standards or or or thosekind of benchmarks. It's easy to focus
(24:36):
on hitting those numbers to the exclusionpotentially of what's happening in the hearts of
the the hearts and minds of thepeople who are helping us get there,
and if we don't take those intoeffects. I mean, man, I
do not envy school administrators these days. Yes, I mean it's a challenge
(25:02):
for sure. Yeah, just fromthe standpoint of teacher morale, constantly being
asked to do more with less,constantly being pushed to, oh, we
got to hit these numbers, wegot to hit these standards. We you
know, we're falling behind, orthese kids are creating issues for everyone to
just I can't imagine it. Itsounds, it sounds incredibly challenging. It
(25:23):
definitely is. And in working withschool districts, I've heard some stories and
typically a lot of times in mywork with them, I'm working with the
administrative staff and they go through alot, so you can just imagine how
a team of administrative staff can gothrough so much in you know, dealing
(25:45):
with parents, dealing with industry youknow, standards, and dealing with the
students and also not quite feeling likethey're being heard or getting their needs met
or offsticles removed from their path fromthose who they're reporting too. And that's
not just a challenge within school district, it's a challenge within many of you
(26:07):
know, workplaces across different industries.But I'm so glad that you even brought
up the idea of making sure thatyou're reaching these standards, these educational standards,
and these metrics that are set.When it comes to business leaders,
I'm curious to know how can theymeasure the benefit or success rate of focusing
(26:30):
on strategic storytelling in their overall leadershippractices and even their executive level missions and
how they run a business. Howhave you been able to see that there
are a gazillion ways that one couldimplement this. Yes, So if you
want to go within the marketing context, for instance, I mean, any
business is going to have your keyperformance indicators. You're going to have numbers,
(26:56):
are we heading these tangible elements not? And when you have baselines of
any given KPI that you can hita number on, then you have the
opportunity to introduce this alternate way ofthinking, you know, driven by a
strategic storytelling. However one decides toimplement that in one's own specialty. When
(27:19):
you have a baseline, then youintroduce the change, and then you can
say, okay, have any ofthese KPIs changed. That's one primary way
that any leader can measure the impactof this. Now when it comes to
things more drawn out or maybe deeplyrooted as a culture within an entire institution,
(27:41):
you know, because the larger aninstitution is, the more deeply ingrained
culture becomes, and it's trying toIt's the difference between turning a rowboat versus
turning an ocean lighter, you know. So sometimes it's tempting to say,
okay, have these KPIs. Youknow, even if you want to measure
employee morale by number of complaints launchedin any given timeframe, the question is,
(28:07):
okay, well has this changed ordo we need to give it more
time to change? Or have wereally done the work to say, okay,
well, are these really the issuesin play? So that's what I
would offer within a measurement context isto say, Okay, how can we
get baselines within our given areas.Get that baseline, introduce the new ideas,
(28:33):
introduce the new way of thinking orthe new approach, and then measure
the KPIs that we've set and seewhat the change is. I agree with
that, and I like that youmentioned give it more time, because when
I hear strategic storytelling, it's definitelycommunication focused. It's definitely something that is
used as a tool, but inmy opinion, I think it's more so
(28:55):
as an approach that anyone, butespecially leaders can use to enhance their leadership
and use it as a tool toleverage how they connect with their teams and
impact the lives and the work performanceof their teams. The thing that popped
into my head as you were sayingthat was the idea of this is not
a replacement for skill sets. Thisis not a replacement for knowledge and experience.
(29:22):
It's a framework to guide it absolutely, and so much of the time.
What happens when we do this isit shifts the focus off ourselves onto
others. Absolutely to the idea ofservice, yes, which is key in
leadership. I mean, it's oneof the only ways, if not the
(29:42):
only way to be successful in leadership. And back to what you mentioned of
giving it more time, just likewe have to give ourselves more time to
put into practice the things we've learnedas leaders, we have to give more
time to developing our munication skills.We have to give more time into wanting
(30:03):
to see the results of how effectiveemployee engagement is. Those things don't happen
overnight, but it's more of usof a skill set, an added skill
set. In my opinion from youknow this conversation, what I've gathered,
it's an added skill set that leaderscan use to not only reach the goals
of the team, but to ultimatelyimpact the lives of their team and really
(30:29):
enhance that connection. Because I'm suremy listeners probably know where I'm going with
this, and they probably know whatI'm going to say. You know,
employee engagement is not an HR responsibility, and I do believe that many people
in leadership tend to get cut onthat because you know, the HR surveys
it comes from that specific team ordepartment. So it's oh, employee engagement,
(30:52):
you know, it's a survey,it's a program. No, it's
a relationship and being a leader,you have to be good at relationship building,
and I love what you express aboututilizing strategic storytelling to be able to
do that and to do that moreeffectively and see results in that. And
I will say, once you havethat in place, one of the most
powerful ways that a leader can sharethat process with the rest of our team
(31:18):
is through tactical storytelling. The ideaof let me tell you about a time
when I experienced something very similar tothis. I was in this scenario.
I was experiencing this and here's whatI wanted. It wasn't working. I
had no idea what to do.Here's what I did to get around it.
And here's what I learned. Andhere's what I'd like to offer to
(31:41):
you in this situation, fellow teammember, to say, I think we
might have something in common right here, what do you think this situation might
call for, just as a beginningof that conversation and letting people continue,
because I mean, we don't havetime to go off on this whole other
rabbit trail of what telling a storyactually does physiologically to the brain and the
(32:07):
chemistry of the people who are hearingit. It literally creates human connection via
chemical hardwired chemicals. This is whathappens when we experience a tactical story.
But again, it all comes backto the power that comes from the upper
level strategic ideas. What are thetrue desires and obstacles at play? And
(32:31):
how can we communicate that in atactical story when we're in one on one
or one to many engagements. Sothat is also a very tactical, tangible
way that you can put that bigpicture thinking into play. I'm so glad
that you gave that example of justhow to frame the conversation and how a
(32:53):
simple way that you can just approachit with someone on your team or a
colleague or whomever. Like we talkedabout earlier, It's very simple, but
we can complicate it so much bymaking it this big broad thing. But
that example, I think is sohelpful and so simple that you can just
it just starts the wheels to spendto rethink, well, how can I
(33:14):
approach someone who I've been experiencing conflictwith or it doesn't seem like we're able
to get through to you know,being able to overcome this issue. How
can I, as the person inleadership, approach this differently to get a
different result, to make them feelheard, that they aren't being barked down
to or just told again how they'redoing something wrong. That's such a good
(33:38):
way and just a simple way todo that. And I'm so glad that
you share that example. And italso made me think that someone hearing utilizing
strategic storytelling in your leadership practices soundsa little bit like fluff or like,
you know, that's yeah, soit's you know, that's a myth.
You know, how does that actuallyhelp get rid results? And you know
(34:00):
in your experience, you know,you've worked with major television networks and things
of that nature. So I cansee how someone hears that and thinks that's
not relevant to what I do,because I'm not telling a story on TV,
I'm not telling a story in abook. I'm not telling a story
in an entertainment fashion. What aresome other myths that you've seen or that
(34:24):
you believe people believe about strategic storytellingthat we could debunk right now to make
it more relatable and realistic for themto apply in their every day encounters.
Sure, the first thing that comesto mind is what you just talked about,
because on the face of it.It seems like creating content for all
(34:45):
these media companies in Los Angeles isa completely separate world from the day to
day world of business, which insome ways, yes, it is.
In other ways. You know,one of the tools that I always talk
about with my clients the idea ofthe thing under the thing. What are
the true psychological and emotional drivers behindany specific thing that happens. You know,
(35:10):
when you hear a story and youfeel some twinge of whatever emotion you're
feeling something, and it's not justbecause of the words that are being spoken,
it's because of the meaning that isattached to those words and the meaning
that you attach to them. Sowithin the picture of creating content in Hollywood,
(35:30):
the number one goal that we wantis for people to keep watching so
we can show you more advertisements andmake money. That is how Hollywood works.
We create an experience that holds people'sattention so that we can show advertisements.
That is the business model, that'sthe economic driver. But the reason
why it's so compelling is the storymakes people pay attention. Now that that's
(35:58):
where we can make some crossover.Because whenever you can get someone to pay
attention and to listen and to engage. And the more that you dig into
the modern research of what storytelling doeswith the concept of narrative transportation, it
literally creates empathy in the listener.They begin to internally empathize with elements of
(36:21):
the characters and the stories that they'rehearing. As business leaders, when we
can apply those kind of ideas toour team members, we can get them
to listen, we can get themto understand. That's what Hollywood can bring
to business, the idea of listening, staying focused, understanding so that we
(36:42):
can then move into action. Howeverwe want to make that happen. So
that's the number one corollary that Isee there is this is the overarching value
of what content does in Hollywood andhow it can apply to business. I
love that. Thank you so muchfor explaining that. I know that this
is going to be helpful for someonejust to not think of it as this
(37:06):
big thing, that's this Hollywood thing, or you have to be in entertainment.
No, it's every day again,it's just drilling down. And I
love that you mentioned the thing underthe thing. That's really what it is.
And you know we have to putour mcgui ra hats on sometimes and
you know, really just go astep further, pull out our tools and
use them to get to the effectiveresult that we're looking for. Well,
(37:27):
and if I could jump in onthat, I would also say what I
was just doing in that example,right, there was referencing the thing under
the thing, but the connection betweenthe two worlds, Yes, might be
described as the thing over the thing. What is the higher level thing that
connects things together? What's the higherlevel pattern match, the higher level similarity?
(37:51):
What is the thing over the thing? How is this like that?
And that is where you know,you can take the thinking up to a
bigger picture, or you can takethe thinking down to the deeper psychological and
emotional levels. And that's the kindof stuff that a great screenwriter will do,
a world class copywriter in the businessworld will do. But man,
(38:14):
a lot of the times when we'releaving a team, that's not our skill
set. Yes, yes, that'snot our world. And so you talk
about deeper levels of psychological and emotionalmotivation, and people's eyes could start to
glaze over until you tell them whyit matters and how it can change the
results that you get in business.Yes, that is so true, And
(38:36):
I can speak for myself. Imean, when I got into leadership,
I knew nothing about it. Ithought I did, I thought I had
all the answers, and I hada rude awakening. Not because I was
behaving out of malice or I wasthis bad person or had all these bad
intentions or I just wanted to bosspeople. It wasn't any of that.
I just simply didn't know how.And I could bet that miny of us
(39:00):
have had that same experience in someways. Oftentimes you get promoted or you
get these opportunities, and it doesn'tnecessarily mean that you come into it out
of the gate having those soft skillsthat help you be impactful and effective in
leadership. But it's the choice ofdeciding what is it that I really want
to bring to the table. Andthat again goes into some of the questions
(39:24):
that you asked earlier, you know, just really being reflective and trying to
look at it from a different perspectiveand reframe the thinking so that you can
ultimately connect with those who you're leadingand that you're working with. So I
completely agree with that, and Imean, I personally will be heavily practicing
a strategic storytelling because it's so usefuland oftentimes we don't even realize we do
(39:46):
it. You know, you're justtalking. But it's finding that commonality or
deciding how do we get deeper intothis and figure out what's going on or
how do we connect that. Ilike the idea of really approaching every situation
that way. I think that that'shelpful for everyone who's in leadership. For
(40:07):
sure. I would say that's oneof the most powerful things that one can
do when crafting any kind of storyat a tactical level or a strategic level.
Is the idea of this is likethat, what are the similarities here?
Where have we seen this kind ofan obstacle or a conflict before?
And what did the people in thatother scenario do, and what might that
(40:30):
apply to us here? If oneis a leader delivering a tactical story to
a group or to an individual,that is where the power of storytelling really
lands for the audience is when youconnect this is what happened in the storyline,
and it's kind of like what Isee happening here, This is like
(40:52):
that. It's those two comparisons ofwhat's happening in the story, and that
gets the your audience to listen tothat story and become engaged in that other
scenario, and they get to realizefor themselves, oh, that's the same
thing that's happening here. Okay,yes exactly. It allows them to have
(41:14):
a part in discovering that for themselves, and it engages their brain in a
different way. It's a very verypowerful thing. It's absolutely powerful, and
I also think that it creates asafe space for those whoever the audience is,
it's team members, whatever the caseis, When they get that connection
and they can relate it to somethingelse, I think it gives them,
(41:35):
in a sense, permission to beable to open more about their thoughts,
their ideas, or even some questionsthat they may have around whatever the subject
matter is. But it creates asafe space for them to engage, and
I think that that's also very powerfulin storytelling. I would also caution people
(41:55):
that when you tell a story,it is very very important to know why
you're telling the story. Because youcan have all the elements in place,
you can know exactly what's going down. You can even have all the psychological
and emotional elements dialed in to wherethey actually are. And if you tell
this story for the purpose of makingyourself look good so you get what you
(42:21):
want. As the leader, goodluck getting your audience to buy in,
because when your audience is listening toa story, the audience is receiving that
story as the hero of their ownstoryline. They want to get what they
want, which most of the timeI mean as a leader, you're talking
to another team member, unless there'ssomething really out of balance, chances are
(42:45):
that team member wants to help youget what you want. They want to
keep their job, they want todo a good job within the context of
the business. But ultimately, everyoneis thinking of their own story, and
everyone is the hero of their ownstory. So if we as leaders tell
stories that are all about us andtalking about how we're amazing and how we
(43:06):
figured it out in the past,it's going to be a very different result
compared to if we are leaders sayingthis is what I learned, and I'm
offering that to you because I thinkwe might be in a similar situation right
here. Because in that scenario,we're offering the story because we're here to
be of service to our audience,to help our audience along in their storyline.
(43:30):
When they're the hero of their ownstory. I love that you said
that so much. I think thatthat is very very important to know and
truth be told. I was goingto wrap things up, and I was
going to ask you what was onething if you had to share. I
know you've given a lot of goodinformation, but if there was one thing
(43:52):
that you could share, you know, for the listeners who want to start
to try to apply a strategic storytelling. You again, you've given a
lot of things that they can doimmediately, but I was going to ask
you to just wrap it up withone little actual thing. But I think
what you just said did that peoplewant to be the heroes in their own
(44:12):
storytelling, and to tell the story, you have to know why you're doing
it. And I just loved Ilove that you shared that, because we
as humans can get caught up intelling our own story for whatever reason we
have with our own personal interests.But this requires us to be strategic in
(44:32):
making sure that we are coming atit from a place of trying to connect
with others and to solve problems forthem and to be of service to them.
So thank you. If I may, I want to enhance that yes
by saying that when we think aboutwhat that definition of a story is a
story as a character who wants something, overcomes obstacles and experiences transformation as a
(44:58):
result. The entire pl point ofany story, of any interaction between any
human being is to see some kindof change happen. Yes, and when
we are approaching this first from thebig picture strategic viewpoint of who are these
characters? Who are all the characters, what do they want, what's getting
(45:21):
in their way? And then howcan I help them get what they want?
The result of that is changed foreveryone, and that is something that
is always worth seeking. Absolutely,thank you so much for this. I
want to ask a few more questions, but I can't. I know where
most of our time, But Ithink that just means we should probably have
(45:44):
another conversation again at some point,because I think this was very, very
valuable. And I'm a firm believerthat being a great leader isn't about knowing
everything or having all of the quoteunquote hard skills. It's the soft skills
that matter away awareness, being ableto communicate, and in this instance,
knowing how to use strategic storytelling.And I think that this was a very
(46:07):
helpful conversation that gets leaders to thinkoutside the box, you know, and
really just look at things from adifferent perspective. Thank you so much,
Jeff. I really appreciate this.My pleasure, Deanna. Thank you.
Yes, Now, if anyone wantsto get in contact with you, or
they have more questions, or they'rejust overall curious about how they can get
(46:28):
even deeper into the world of strategicstorytelling, how can they do that.
There's one place to go. Itis specifically for listeners of your show.
You can find that at the urlstory greenlight dot com slash culture building.
That's storygreenlight dot com slash culture Building. There's some resources there on how to
(46:49):
build your own tactical stories, someof the checklists on how to start putting
those elements together. There's a linkthere for my podcast, and there's also
a way to get an touch thereif this is something that you want to
put into action for yourself and towork with me directly. So love to
see you there. Awesome, Thankyou again, Jeff. I really appreciate
you being on the show. Mypleasure. Dianna
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