Host Cyrus Webb welcomes Kevin Donaldson, motivational speaker and co-host of The Suffering Podcast, to #ConversationsLIVE to discuss how he has used his platform to discuss topics that are encouraging and inspiring others---and what's to come.
https://www.realkevindonaldson.com/
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https://www.realkevindonaldson.com/
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Welcome to Conversations Live. For morethan a decade, we've brought you the
best in books, entertainment, celebrityinterviews and current events. When the movers
and shakers of the world have somethingto say to you, they say it
to us first. Here's your host, Cyrus Web. Welcome back everyone in
(00:20):
the Conversations Live. I'm your host, Service Web. Glad you walked joined
us once again for a radio audiencetuning in at WYAD ninety four point one
FM and WYAD online dot com.Are glad that you all can be with
us. Also, just joining usthrough I Heart Ready on Amazon Music for
glad you all could be with usas well. We always love being able
to spotlight individuals who are using theirplatforms and not only to motivate and inspire,
but also to share information that couldbenefit us all. So I'm very
(00:43):
excited to welcome Kevin Donaldson to ourbroadcast today. He's not only as the
co host of the Suffering podcast,but an individual to be able to use
his own social media platform to beable to raise awareness for issues that are
near and dear to him, butalso to be able to encourage others as
well. Went South to Kevin notonly by this journey, but it's been
like for him to use the platformsavailable to us all, but also to
see the impact that his voice isbe able to have on the world around
(01:06):
him. Kevin, thank you againfor the time or do they think appreciate
it? Cyrus, thank you somuch. It's an honor to be on
your show today. Pleasure to tellme all mine. I feel like the
work that you do, Kevin issomething that we really try to not only
to get our audience to be ableto see what they can be able to
achieve in their own lives, butalso encouraging others around them. Let's just
(01:26):
talk about this year. First ofall, it's hard to believe we're in
the last quarter of twitty twenty three. Talk to us about this year for
you, Kevin. What has itbeen like for you to be able to
see not only the response to thework that you do, but also the
impact you've been able to make.It's humbling, you know, when you
put your when you put your lifeout there in public display for the world
to see, there's always a littlepiec to ba that thinks, you know,
(01:49):
how am I going to be received? Am I going to be judged
harsh harshly, you know, andI'm I'm a member of my community,
I'm a football coach. How ismy how are my parents going to see
me? And I've broken it downto the most core. The essence of
it is is nobody in the worldwill ever be able to judge me as
harshly as I've judged myself in thepast. And if you can get over
(02:09):
that and really let go of thosevulnerabilities, that's when you start to connect
to people. Because I was tolda long time ago you can impress people
with your strengths, but you connectto them through your vulnerabilities. Yeah,
such a great thing, and Ilove the fact that you put it out
there front considered, Kevin, literallyfor the world. If anyone's following you
on social they'll be able to findyou, of course on Instagram at a
(02:31):
real Kevin Donaldson. We're going toremind them of that. But I mean,
some of the topics you discuss againare near and dear to me.
Of course, things like suffering,things like mental health awareness the importance of
that, but also of course beingable to be vulnerable. So I want
to talk about that because you mentionedthat word. You know, I think
we have definitely seen a I wantto say, an increase in it,
(02:53):
especially among us guys, and beingable to know it's okay to be vulnerable,
it's okay to be at our putourselves out there, and knowing that
it's not just for us, butto help other people. Talk to us
about what you've been able to getby doing that, because it's not always
easy. But talk to us aboutthe rewards you've been able to get.
Kevin from being vulnerable and sharing abit of yourself with the world, you
(03:15):
connected people on such a different level. You know. I don't know if
you have you ever heard of theJapanese art of konsuki. So it's something
that's really cool. When we werea little kid, we all broke something
in our parents' house, you know, a little chotski on a wall that
your mother held valuable. And whatdo you do as a little kid.
You try to glow back together andyou try to hide it the best you
(03:37):
can and hope that they won't eversee it. Right, Well, people
do this too, you know.We all get broken down throughout our lives
and we try to hide those cracks. Konsugi what they do is they'll take
broken pieces of pottery, broken piecesof glass, and they'll inlay the cracks
with gold. So what they're actuallydoing is highlighting the cracks and really turning
(03:59):
something into absolute beauty and a masterpiece. And if you go online, you
can look up dozens and thousands ofexamples of this. So that's what I
do, and because in my ownlife I tried to hide my cracks over
and over and over again. Here'sthe only problem. Let's say you were
to break a glass and you tryto put it back together so your wife,
(04:20):
your partner, your husband, yourmother, father won't see it.
Eventually, what's gonna happen is somebody'sgonna put water in that glass and it's
gonna leak and it's gonna spill outeverywhere. So if you were to repair
it in such a way that youknow that it's repaired, it's going to
be more solid, and people aregonna gravitate towards those cracks first rather than
(04:42):
trying to look at somebody who's tryingto hide. I tried to do this
in my own life all along,and after my shooting after twenty thirteen,
I did everything I could to hidethose cracks. But guess what, everybody
saw them. Every single person inthe world saw them. I just don't
want to tell you, hey,that we can see this stuff. You're
not hiding anything. Yeah, Andyou mentioned, even though you're social,
(05:08):
Kevin, about your shooting, andtalk to us about the decades since,
Finn, what has that been likefor you to see? Because for a
lot of people, I mean foryou, that wasn't an ending of one
part of your journey, but itreally did begin a new chapter. What
has that new chapter been like foryou to see the way it's been able
to come to you in the pastdecade. So if you were to speak
to me eight nine years ago,I used to tell people I was a
(05:30):
landscaper because I would retire from thepolice department at this point. And I
used tell people I was a landscaperbecause I inevitably didn't want anybody to ask
me the surrounding. I didn't wantto even talk about my shooting. But
you know, the funny thing isis you're always put in a position right
where you're supposed to be. Andalthough when I went through my shooting,
I thought it was the worst thingin the world that could possibly happen,
(05:54):
it put me right in a positionwhere I was supposed to be, and
through a lot of therapy and grouptherapy and reaching out to others, I
found out that that's what really broughtme joy and what really brought me a
lot of fulfillment. The decade sincemy shooting has seen a guy who was
absolutely broken and doing his best totry to hide his cracks from the world
(06:15):
to now say, hey, look, these are my these are these are
my cracks. You can judge themif you want, but if you listen
to me, I have found thatby facing those those things that I used
to think were deficiency in my personalityand highlight them and show you that these
things can be overcome, but youhave to have the strength and resiliency in
(06:38):
order to face them. You know, I say, I've been saying this
for a long time. It's myprairie fire analogy. I don't know if
you've got a chance to watch thatone. My co host Mike likes to
make fun of me because I dotalk about it. A bit years ago,
I read a book on how tosurvive worst case scenarios, and one
(06:59):
of these was a prairie fire.It was, you know, it's where
I mean, I live in NewJersey. There's no prairies in New Jersey.
But if so, when danger iscoming out of human being, it's
your intuition to run away from thedanger, to try to protect yourself and
preserve life or prairie fire. Ifyou do that, if you run away,
this big wall of flame coming atyou, it's gonna catch up to
you, and it's gonna get biggerand bigger and bigger until it consumes you
(07:24):
and you die. But if yourun fire, that danger, that pain,
you're gonna get through the other side. Yeah, you're gonna have some
marks, you're gonna have some scars, but your duration of your suffering and
your pain is going to be thatmuch shorter. And if you think about
this in just something innocuous in life, like if you don't pay your credit
card bill, is it going away? No, it's going to get bigger
and bigger and bigger until you can'tpay it. And the same thing is
(07:46):
with suffering with pain, my pain. I had to face my pain after
my shooting and really own it andsort of ingest it and then put it
back out there for the world tosee. Say, look, you know,
once I face this stuff. I'mnot going to say it wasn't the
monster that I thought it was,because it was pretty bad. It got
really bad, but I was ableto get through it once I just faced
(08:11):
it and said, yeah, theseare my cracks. So the decade after
my shooting has seen a broken manrebuild himself and use what he thought was
a deficiency as a strength. Andthat's really it's I turned suffering into success.
That's how I like to phrase itexactly. And Kevin, that is
one of the things when I firstfound out about you that I really responded
(08:33):
to because one thing that you havedealt with the chorus is, you know
the depths of despair, you know, with suicide attends I myself. I'm
a suicide attempt survivor, and Ithink a lot of times when I look
at that journey from myself over thepast twenty five years since the last time
I tried to end my life,I think about the purpose that I found
and how excited I had been nowto be able to take my own pain
(08:56):
and suffering and to be able tohelp other people to deal with their You've
been able to do that too,and one of the ways you've done is
is do something I mentioned, whichis the Suffering podcast. Talk to us
about that platform, Kevin, andwhat that's been like for you to use
that to knowing to talk about topicslike we're doing here, but also to
share a bit of your story too. So my co host Mike Fialace,
(09:18):
he was a police officer as well. We used to go to group therapy
because we didn't feel normal around anybodyelse. We thought we were the only
ones going through this. We werethe weakest individuals in the world. But
when we got around each other,we felt normal because we all had the
same damage in the same tents.And then, you know, I would
stay in group therapy and help otherofficers through, especially after I retired,
because I felt that I owed,you know, I had to pay this
(09:41):
debt forward because there were some peoplewho helped me along. And then you
know, lockdown happens and no grouptherapies, no face to face interactions,
and I just one day, I'msitting around and I go, you know,
I need this. I need thisfor my soul, because service to
another person really does cleanse your soul. And I just started talking. I
(10:03):
just started playing around. Hey,listen, I'd like to do a podcast,
and that podcast has made me realizethat the true beauty of my life
is not my accomplishments. I havelots of saves, I have life life
saving awards, valor awards, allthis stuff, and that's great and that's
wonderful, and I'm very proud ofit. But what really makes my life
(10:24):
worthwhile is my own suffering and howI overcame it, How I overcame that
adversity and I turned it into somethingbeautiful. I turned it into a piece
of Kensugi art. And so weget on the air, and that same
joy I had in helping another ingroup therapy situation is the same joy by
(10:46):
the time my guests come out,we've heard it over and over again.
They'll they'll drive home and they say, that was one of the most peaceful
drive homes that I ever had.And we've heard this. It's common it's
a commonality amongst all the guests.And we have some people and there were
some real tough stories. They alwaysthe release. It's the release, it's
the talking it out in a conversationalway. And sometimes we've throw in some
(11:09):
inappropriate humor that sort of disarms thema little bit. But they found the
same piece. I sound love thatand you have been able to make this
something that people can feel comfortable about. Kevin, which is such a big
deal. I want to get intomore about that, and I should have
mention because it is a national bookmonth. Kevin also has a book coming
out next here. We're gonna definitelytalk him about that. But for those
(11:30):
who are just tuning in, he'son the radio side of online you're listening
the Conversations Live. We're excited towelcome Kevin Donelson to our broadcast today as
the individual's been able to use thisplatform as motivational speaker, but I also
as the co host of the podcast, The Suffering Podcast. We'll let you
guys know how to take connect withKevin and all the great things he's doing.
I love the fact that, againbecause it is such a big thing,
(11:50):
there's so many people who are goingthrough right now, and people will
look at you and not realize whatyou've gone through. I know I've heard
that to myself as well in thepast. I think it goes to a
big point that you've been talking aboutin this conversation that you also talk about
on your podcast, and that isthat there is no one look right,
there's no one way that a persongets to where they might end up in
(12:13):
despair. Right. And I saythat to say about the fact that you've
been able to really show people they'renot alone. How important has that been
for you to know, Kevin,in your journey that regardless of what you've
gone through, no matter what hashappened to you, that you're not alone
and you don't have to go throughit alone. It's essential. It's essential
when you're left out in a desertisland all alone, you feel helpless,
(12:35):
hopeless, no resources around. It'sone of the biggest lies that we tell
ourselves that nobody can understand what we'regoing through. That is the most untrue
statement in the world. You know, my podcast partner Mike. Okay,
So when we're having a bad day, because let me make this very clear
for everybody, anybody who advocates foranything in life, not just mental health,
(12:58):
don't make the mistake of thinking Ihave it all together. I have
my bad days, I have myhard days, I have my hard weeks,
my hard months. But I havesomebody to lean on to, somebody
who I can totally trust, whoI can be open and vulnerable with another
man and I'm six foot four,I played college football. I'm not the
type of person that most people thinkof that's gonna let go of their stuff.
(13:22):
But I'm at the point right nowwhere you got this is an essential
thing, because you know, we'reall giving a glass in our lives,
and that's how much suffering and howmuch pain we can take. If you
don't empty that glass from time totime, it's gonna spill over. And
you know mine did spill over obviously. But I have those people around me
who I can lean on and theycan carry me through when I can't carry
(13:46):
myself. And I now have onehundred and fifty some odd people who can
lean on me as much as sometimesI need to lean on them. I
have this community of people and thefollowers we have who are so supportive of
us. It's it's everything to me, and it's what gives me my true
purpose in life. I used tothink being a police officer was my purpose
(14:09):
in life. No going out andhighlighting these cracks, that's my purpose.
Well, isn't it interesting, Cavinto that point that sometimes you know what
we are meant to do comes tous in unexpected ways, right, Because
like you said, for our audienceout there. They may have thought a
certain career was that thing, andthen when that's taken away from them,
(14:31):
they realize what their real purpose,and you know, and even their own
passion is, is that one ofthe things you've been able to share with
people that a lot of times thething that you think is the thing may
actually be leading you in the directionof the thing. I'm a huge believer,
through faiths and through some other veryimportant people in my life, that
there are no chance meetings, thereare no mistakes. There is a plan
(14:54):
you have to you know, there'ssomebody who's directing the plan that's very high
up on the battlefield, can seethe whole battlefield. But meanwhile you're mired
in the battle itself and you can'tsee the bigger picture until you come out
of that little valley or that littleskirmish that you're in, and then all
of a sudden you just have thataha moment where, oh, this was
the plan all along. Everything elseI was doing was to get me to
(15:16):
hear you're always You're always put ina position where you're supposed to be,
even though it may really stink sometimes. But don't ever discount position you're in
today is I'm the most unluckiest personin the world. I just got you
know, I got bad break.No, there's a reason why you're going
through any whatever you're going through.Yeah, And I think that's the big
(15:37):
thing I mentioned as I was preppingfor this segment, I saw on your
website. We're gonna be giving thatout here in a bit, Kevin.
That one of the things you havecoming up is the only chorus, you
know, the continuation of the podcast, the Suffering podcast. But also you
have a book as well. Talkto us about that project. And because
I know you've probably have been askedin the bath, hey do you have
a book or when's the book coming? So talk to us about me and
(16:00):
you are crazy. So it's anamazing team of people. And it came
you want to talk about some chanceencounters. I got connected with this woman,
Julie Logan, who owns publishing houseMedia Casters, and she connected me
with another gentleman, detective Chris Anderson, who you've seen on TV. He's
been on First forty eight and he'sbeen on Reasonable Doubt he is. He
(16:23):
was in Birmingham, Alabama homicide detectiveAnd although we're from these two different worlds.
There's so many commonalities about our dailylives that have happened through the damages
of police worker because you're seeing thingsyou're not supposed to say. So this
book, man, you are crazybecause at some point in your police in
(16:45):
your professional career as a police officer, and many other professions as well,
you're going to think you're crazy.And and you're going to think that because
in essence, a crazy person thinksthat nobody else thinks like them. Well,
that's again, big lives, You'renot crazy. So what I've done
is try to rebrand the word crazyand yeah, I am crazy. I'm
(17:06):
crazy for wanting to go help people. I'm crazy for wanting to do to
get involved in this life of service. And Chris, you know, he's
become a very dear friend of mine. It's a passion project more than anything
else. But it's also letting peopleknow into the window, a little bit
of a window into the mind ofa police officer, how strong they have
to be, and a lot ofpeople don't understand. So this book is
(17:27):
not only for police officer, it'sfor their families, for their acquaintances,
and when they read this book,my hope is they read and go,
oh, that's why they were actinglike that, and that's why they were
shut off at this point to givepeople a little bit of a window into
them. We have some wonderful doctorsworking on it that are doing some gen
stuff, given some commentary in there, and I couldn't be more proud of
(17:51):
the team that's been put together throughwith Man, You're crazy awesome, a
lot of great things so us tolook forward to. Last thing, I
definitely talk to you about, Kevin, because I think it's important to their
audience. As I mentioned at thebeginning of this conversation, it's hard to
believe where in the last quarter oftwenty twenty three. This has been a
difficult year for a lot of people. The world is definitely in turn one.
There's a lot of things that's goingon, and it's so easy for
(18:14):
us to let our own inner piecebe disrupted because of external forces that are
going on around us. What doyou normally say to people, Kevin,
who who may feel as though theydon't see the way out. I mean,
you've been there, I know whatthat feels like. But what do
you say to them about the importantof not giving up on themselves because there's
no way out, there's no wayaround, there's only you have to go
(18:38):
through. You absolutely have to gothrough. There's there's no shortcut, there's
no quick fix. You know.It's kind of like taking that diapill and
losing all the weight all at once. Well, most people gain it all
back because they never had to workand suffer through that. You have to
(18:59):
go through this because at the endof the day, it's going to make
you a better person. Don't getmiired and don't get way down and thinking
now is forever such a great reminderfor all of us. Again, everyone,
Kevin Donelson has been our cast.Great conversation with you, Kevin Easy,
co host of the Suffering Podcast,but also the one of the co
(19:19):
authors of the upcoming book Man YouWere Crazy As along with a lot of
other projects as well. Kevin,appreciate you stopping by Conversations Live today.
How can our audience stay connected withyou? Well, you can always find
everything through Real Kevin Donaldson dot com. You can find me on Instagram at
real Kevin Donaldson if I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, all under the
(19:41):
same names. You can follow theSuffering Podcast on Instagram at the Suffering Podcast
or go to the Suffering podcast dotcom or on YouTube all major podcast platforms.
If you just go to YouTube andsearch, the Suffering Podcast will be
the first one coming up. ButI really really do appreciate your time,
Cyrus and very grateful. Yeah,look, the pleasure sefinitely on mine.
(20:03):
Looking forward to staying connected with you, Kevin Well. I think big things
are happening in the future. Thankyou so much. All right, same
here, and we thank your audiencefor tuning in to another great segment of
Conversations Live. Until next time,I'm your host, servers Web things.
Always enjoy your day, enjoy yourlife, enjoy your world. Thank you
opportuning Conversations Live. Then let's gomake today amazing. Take care
Welcome to Conversations Live. For morethan a decade, we've brought you the
best in books, entertainment, celebrityinterviews and current events. When the movers
and shakers of the world have somethingto say to you, they say it
to us first. Here's your host, Cyrus Web. Welcome back everyone in
(00:20):
the Conversations Live. I'm your host, Service Web. Glad you walked joined
us once again for a radio audiencetuning in at WYAD ninety four point one
FM and WYAD online dot com.Are glad that you all can be with
us. Also, just joining usthrough I Heart Ready on Amazon Music for
glad you all could be with usas well. We always love being able
to spotlight individuals who are using theirplatforms and not only to motivate and inspire,
but also to share information that couldbenefit us all. So I'm very
(00:43):
excited to welcome Kevin Donaldson to ourbroadcast today. He's not only as the
co host of the Suffering podcast,but an individual to be able to use
his own social media platform to beable to raise awareness for issues that are
near and dear to him, butalso to be able to encourage others as
well. Went South to Kevin notonly by this journey, but it's been
like for him to use the platformsavailable to us all, but also to
see the impact that his voice isbe able to have on the world around
(01:06):
him. Kevin, thank you againfor the time or do they think appreciate
it? Cyrus, thank you somuch. It's an honor to be on
your show today. Pleasure to tellme all mine. I feel like the
work that you do, Kevin issomething that we really try to not only
to get our audience to be ableto see what they can be able to
achieve in their own lives, butalso encouraging others around them. Let's just
(01:26):
talk about this year. First ofall, it's hard to believe we're in
the last quarter of twitty twenty three. Talk to us about this year for
you, Kevin. What has itbeen like for you to be able to
see not only the response to thework that you do, but also the
impact you've been able to make.It's humbling, you know, when you
put your when you put your lifeout there in public display for the world
to see, there's always a littlepiec to ba that thinks, you know,
(01:49):
how am I going to be received? Am I going to be judged
harsh harshly, you know, andI'm I'm a member of my community,
I'm a football coach. How ismy how are my parents going to see
me? And I've broken it downto the most core. The essence of
it is is nobody in the worldwill ever be able to judge me as
harshly as I've judged myself in thepast. And if you can get over
(02:09):
that and really let go of thosevulnerabilities, that's when you start to connect
to people. Because I was tolda long time ago you can impress people
with your strengths, but you connectto them through your vulnerabilities. Yeah,
such a great thing, and Ilove the fact that you put it out
there front considered, Kevin, literallyfor the world. If anyone's following you
on social they'll be able to findyou, of course on Instagram at a
(02:31):
real Kevin Donaldson. We're going toremind them of that. But I mean,
some of the topics you discuss againare near and dear to me.
Of course, things like suffering,things like mental health awareness the importance of
that, but also of course beingable to be vulnerable. So I want
to talk about that because you mentionedthat word. You know, I think
we have definitely seen a I wantto say, an increase in it,
(02:53):
especially among us guys, and beingable to know it's okay to be vulnerable,
it's okay to be at our putourselves out there, and knowing that
it's not just for us, butto help other people. Talk to us
about what you've been able to getby doing that, because it's not always
easy. But talk to us aboutthe rewards you've been able to get.
Kevin from being vulnerable and sharing abit of yourself with the world, you
(03:15):
connected people on such a different level. You know. I don't know if
you have you ever heard of theJapanese art of konsuki. So it's something
that's really cool. When we werea little kid, we all broke something
in our parents' house, you know, a little chotski on a wall that
your mother held valuable. And whatdo you do as a little kid.
You try to glow back together andyou try to hide it the best you
(03:37):
can and hope that they won't eversee it. Right, Well, people
do this too, you know.We all get broken down throughout our lives
and we try to hide those cracks. Konsugi what they do is they'll take
broken pieces of pottery, broken piecesof glass, and they'll inlay the cracks
with gold. So what they're actuallydoing is highlighting the cracks and really turning
(03:59):
something into absolute beauty and a masterpiece. And if you go online, you
can look up dozens and thousands ofexamples of this. So that's what I
do, and because in my ownlife I tried to hide my cracks over
and over and over again. Here'sthe only problem. Let's say you were
to break a glass and you tryto put it back together so your wife,
(04:20):
your partner, your husband, yourmother, father won't see it.
Eventually, what's gonna happen is somebody'sgonna put water in that glass and it's
gonna leak and it's gonna spill outeverywhere. So if you were to repair
it in such a way that youknow that it's repaired, it's going to
be more solid, and people aregonna gravitate towards those cracks first rather than
(04:42):
trying to look at somebody who's tryingto hide. I tried to do this
in my own life all along,and after my shooting after twenty thirteen,
I did everything I could to hidethose cracks. But guess what, everybody
saw them. Every single person inthe world saw them. I just don't
want to tell you, hey,that we can see this stuff. You're
not hiding anything. Yeah, Andyou mentioned, even though you're social,
(05:08):
Kevin, about your shooting, andtalk to us about the decades since,
Finn, what has that been likefor you to see? Because for a
lot of people, I mean foryou, that wasn't an ending of one
part of your journey, but itreally did begin a new chapter. What
has that new chapter been like foryou to see the way it's been able
to come to you in the pastdecade. So if you were to speak
to me eight nine years ago,I used to tell people I was a
(05:30):
landscaper because I would retire from thepolice department at this point. And I
used tell people I was a landscaperbecause I inevitably didn't want anybody to ask
me the surrounding. I didn't wantto even talk about my shooting. But
you know, the funny thing isis you're always put in a position right
where you're supposed to be. Andalthough when I went through my shooting,
I thought it was the worst thingin the world that could possibly happen,
(05:54):
it put me right in a positionwhere I was supposed to be, and
through a lot of therapy and grouptherapy and reaching out to others, I
found out that that's what really broughtme joy and what really brought me a
lot of fulfillment. The decade sincemy shooting has seen a guy who was
absolutely broken and doing his best totry to hide his cracks from the world
(06:15):
to now say, hey, look, these are my these are these are
my cracks. You can judge themif you want, but if you listen
to me, I have found thatby facing those those things that I used
to think were deficiency in my personalityand highlight them and show you that these
things can be overcome, but youhave to have the strength and resiliency in
(06:38):
order to face them. You know, I say, I've been saying this
for a long time. It's myprairie fire analogy. I don't know if
you've got a chance to watch thatone. My co host Mike likes to
make fun of me because I dotalk about it. A bit years ago,
I read a book on how tosurvive worst case scenarios, and one
(06:59):
of these was a prairie fire.It was, you know, it's where
I mean, I live in NewJersey. There's no prairies in New Jersey.
But if so, when danger iscoming out of human being, it's
your intuition to run away from thedanger, to try to protect yourself and
preserve life or prairie fire. Ifyou do that, if you run away,
this big wall of flame coming atyou, it's gonna catch up to
you, and it's gonna get biggerand bigger and bigger until it consumes you
(07:24):
and you die. But if yourun fire, that danger, that pain,
you're gonna get through the other side. Yeah, you're gonna have some
marks, you're gonna have some scars, but your duration of your suffering and
your pain is going to be thatmuch shorter. And if you think about
this in just something innocuous in life, like if you don't pay your credit
card bill, is it going away? No, it's going to get bigger
and bigger and bigger until you can'tpay it. And the same thing is
(07:46):
with suffering with pain, my pain. I had to face my pain after
my shooting and really own it andsort of ingest it and then put it
back out there for the world tosee. Say, look, you know,
once I face this stuff. I'mnot going to say it wasn't the
monster that I thought it was,because it was pretty bad. It got
really bad, but I was ableto get through it once I just faced
(08:11):
it and said, yeah, theseare my cracks. So the decade after
my shooting has seen a broken manrebuild himself and use what he thought was
a deficiency as a strength. Andthat's really it's I turned suffering into success.
That's how I like to phrase itexactly. And Kevin, that is
one of the things when I firstfound out about you that I really responded
(08:33):
to because one thing that you havedealt with the chorus is, you know
the depths of despair, you know, with suicide attends I myself. I'm
a suicide attempt survivor, and Ithink a lot of times when I look
at that journey from myself over thepast twenty five years since the last time
I tried to end my life,I think about the purpose that I found
and how excited I had been nowto be able to take my own pain
(08:56):
and suffering and to be able tohelp other people to deal with their You've
been able to do that too,and one of the ways you've done is
is do something I mentioned, whichis the Suffering podcast. Talk to us
about that platform, Kevin, andwhat that's been like for you to use
that to knowing to talk about topicslike we're doing here, but also to
share a bit of your story too. So my co host Mike Fialace,
(09:18):
he was a police officer as well. We used to go to group therapy
because we didn't feel normal around anybodyelse. We thought we were the only
ones going through this. We werethe weakest individuals in the world. But
when we got around each other,we felt normal because we all had the
same damage in the same tents.And then, you know, I would
stay in group therapy and help otherofficers through, especially after I retired,
because I felt that I owed,you know, I had to pay this
(09:41):
debt forward because there were some peoplewho helped me along. And then you
know, lockdown happens and no grouptherapies, no face to face interactions,
and I just one day, I'msitting around and I go, you know,
I need this. I need thisfor my soul, because service to
another person really does cleanse your soul. And I just started talking. I
(10:03):
just started playing around. Hey,listen, I'd like to do a podcast,
and that podcast has made me realizethat the true beauty of my life
is not my accomplishments. I havelots of saves, I have life life
saving awards, valor awards, allthis stuff, and that's great and that's
wonderful, and I'm very proud ofit. But what really makes my life
(10:24):
worthwhile is my own suffering and howI overcame it, How I overcame that
adversity and I turned it into somethingbeautiful. I turned it into a piece
of Kensugi art. And so weget on the air, and that same
joy I had in helping another ingroup therapy situation is the same joy by
(10:46):
the time my guests come out,we've heard it over and over again.
They'll they'll drive home and they say, that was one of the most peaceful
drive homes that I ever had.And we've heard this. It's common it's
a commonality amongst all the guests.And we have some people and there were
some real tough stories. They alwaysthe release. It's the release, it's
the talking it out in a conversationalway. And sometimes we've throw in some
(11:09):
inappropriate humor that sort of disarms thema little bit. But they found the
same piece. I sound love thatand you have been able to make this
something that people can feel comfortable about. Kevin, which is such a big
deal. I want to get intomore about that, and I should have
mention because it is a national bookmonth. Kevin also has a book coming
out next here. We're gonna definitelytalk him about that. But for those
(11:30):
who are just tuning in, he'son the radio side of online you're listening
the Conversations Live. We're excited towelcome Kevin Donelson to our broadcast today as
the individual's been able to use thisplatform as motivational speaker, but I also
as the co host of the podcast, The Suffering Podcast. We'll let you
guys know how to take connect withKevin and all the great things he's doing.
I love the fact that, againbecause it is such a big thing,
(11:50):
there's so many people who are goingthrough right now, and people will
look at you and not realize whatyou've gone through. I know I've heard
that to myself as well in thepast. I think it goes to a
big point that you've been talking aboutin this conversation that you also talk about
on your podcast, and that isthat there is no one look right,
there's no one way that a persongets to where they might end up in
(12:13):
despair. Right. And I saythat to say about the fact that you've
been able to really show people they'renot alone. How important has that been
for you to know, Kevin,in your journey that regardless of what you've
gone through, no matter what hashappened to you, that you're not alone
and you don't have to go throughit alone. It's essential. It's essential
when you're left out in a desertisland all alone, you feel helpless,
(12:35):
hopeless, no resources around. It'sone of the biggest lies that we tell
ourselves that nobody can understand what we'regoing through. That is the most untrue
statement in the world. You know, my podcast partner Mike. Okay,
So when we're having a bad day, because let me make this very clear
for everybody, anybody who advocates foranything in life, not just mental health,
(12:58):
don't make the mistake of thinking Ihave it all together. I have
my bad days, I have myhard days, I have my hard weeks,
my hard months. But I havesomebody to lean on to, somebody
who I can totally trust, whoI can be open and vulnerable with another
man and I'm six foot four,I played college football. I'm not the
type of person that most people thinkof that's gonna let go of their stuff.
(13:22):
But I'm at the point right nowwhere you got this is an essential
thing, because you know, we'reall giving a glass in our lives,
and that's how much suffering and howmuch pain we can take. If you
don't empty that glass from time totime, it's gonna spill over. And
you know mine did spill over obviously. But I have those people around me
who I can lean on and theycan carry me through when I can't carry
(13:46):
myself. And I now have onehundred and fifty some odd people who can
lean on me as much as sometimesI need to lean on them. I
have this community of people and thefollowers we have who are so supportive of
us. It's it's everything to me, and it's what gives me my true
purpose in life. I used tothink being a police officer was my purpose
(14:09):
in life. No going out andhighlighting these cracks, that's my purpose.
Well, isn't it interesting, Cavinto that point that sometimes you know what
we are meant to do comes tous in unexpected ways, right, Because
like you said, for our audienceout there. They may have thought a
certain career was that thing, andthen when that's taken away from them,
(14:31):
they realize what their real purpose,and you know, and even their own
passion is, is that one ofthe things you've been able to share with
people that a lot of times thething that you think is the thing may
actually be leading you in the directionof the thing. I'm a huge believer,
through faiths and through some other veryimportant people in my life, that
there are no chance meetings, thereare no mistakes. There is a plan
(14:54):
you have to you know, there'ssomebody who's directing the plan that's very high
up on the battlefield, can seethe whole battlefield. But meanwhile you're mired
in the battle itself and you can'tsee the bigger picture until you come out
of that little valley or that littleskirmish that you're in, and then all
of a sudden you just have thataha moment where, oh, this was
the plan all along. Everything elseI was doing was to get me to
(15:16):
hear you're always You're always put ina position where you're supposed to be,
even though it may really stink sometimes. But don't ever discount position you're in
today is I'm the most unluckiest personin the world. I just got you
know, I got bad break.No, there's a reason why you're going
through any whatever you're going through.Yeah, And I think that's the big
(15:37):
thing I mentioned as I was preppingfor this segment, I saw on your
website. We're gonna be giving thatout here in a bit, Kevin.
That one of the things you havecoming up is the only chorus, you
know, the continuation of the podcast, the Suffering podcast. But also you
have a book as well. Talkto us about that project. And because
I know you've probably have been askedin the bath, hey do you have
a book or when's the book coming? So talk to us about me and
(16:00):
you are crazy. So it's anamazing team of people. And it came
you want to talk about some chanceencounters. I got connected with this woman,
Julie Logan, who owns publishing houseMedia Casters, and she connected me
with another gentleman, detective Chris Anderson, who you've seen on TV. He's
been on First forty eight and he'sbeen on Reasonable Doubt he is. He
(16:23):
was in Birmingham, Alabama homicide detectiveAnd although we're from these two different worlds.
There's so many commonalities about our dailylives that have happened through the damages
of police worker because you're seeing thingsyou're not supposed to say. So this
book, man, you are crazybecause at some point in your police in
(16:45):
your professional career as a police officer, and many other professions as well,
you're going to think you're crazy.And and you're going to think that because
in essence, a crazy person thinksthat nobody else thinks like them. Well,
that's again, big lives, You'renot crazy. So what I've done
is try to rebrand the word crazyand yeah, I am crazy. I'm
(17:06):
crazy for wanting to go help people. I'm crazy for wanting to do to
get involved in this life of service. And Chris, you know, he's
become a very dear friend of mine. It's a passion project more than anything
else. But it's also letting peopleknow into the window, a little bit
of a window into the mind ofa police officer, how strong they have
to be, and a lot ofpeople don't understand. So this book is
(17:27):
not only for police officer, it'sfor their families, for their acquaintances,
and when they read this book,my hope is they read and go,
oh, that's why they were actinglike that, and that's why they were
shut off at this point to givepeople a little bit of a window into
them. We have some wonderful doctorsworking on it that are doing some gen
stuff, given some commentary in there, and I couldn't be more proud of
(17:51):
the team that's been put together throughwith Man, You're crazy awesome, a
lot of great things so us tolook forward to. Last thing, I
definitely talk to you about, Kevin, because I think it's important to their
audience. As I mentioned at thebeginning of this conversation, it's hard to
believe where in the last quarter oftwenty twenty three. This has been a
difficult year for a lot of people. The world is definitely in turn one.
There's a lot of things that's goingon, and it's so easy for
(18:14):
us to let our own inner piecebe disrupted because of external forces that are
going on around us. What doyou normally say to people, Kevin,
who who may feel as though theydon't see the way out. I mean,
you've been there, I know whatthat feels like. But what do
you say to them about the importantof not giving up on themselves because there's
no way out, there's no wayaround, there's only you have to go
(18:38):
through. You absolutely have to gothrough. There's there's no shortcut, there's
no quick fix. You know.It's kind of like taking that diapill and
losing all the weight all at once. Well, most people gain it all
back because they never had to workand suffer through that. You have to
(18:59):
go through this because at the endof the day, it's going to make
you a better person. Don't getmiired and don't get way down and thinking
now is forever such a great reminderfor all of us. Again, everyone,
Kevin Donelson has been our cast.Great conversation with you, Kevin Easy,
co host of the Suffering Podcast,but also the one of the co
(19:19):
authors of the upcoming book Man YouWere Crazy As along with a lot of
other projects as well. Kevin,appreciate you stopping by Conversations Live today.
How can our audience stay connected withyou? Well, you can always find
everything through Real Kevin Donaldson dot com. You can find me on Instagram at
real Kevin Donaldson if I'm on LinkedIn, Twitter, Facebook, all under the
(19:41):
same names. You can follow theSuffering Podcast on Instagram at the Suffering Podcast
or go to the Suffering podcast dotcom or on YouTube all major podcast platforms.
If you just go to YouTube andsearch, the Suffering Podcast will be
the first one coming up. ButI really really do appreciate your time,
Cyrus and very grateful. Yeah,look, the pleasure sefinitely on mine.
(20:03):
Looking forward to staying connected with you, Kevin Well. I think big things
are happening in the future. Thankyou so much. All right, same
here, and we thank your audiencefor tuning in to another great segment of
Conversations Live. Until next time,I'm your host, servers Web things.
Always enjoy your day, enjoy yourlife, enjoy your world. Thank you
opportuning Conversations Live. Then let's gomake today amazing. Take care
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