Episode 158 - Ben Bruno: Scaling Good Coaching Without Compromise - D&D Fitness Radio Podcast

Episode Transcript
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(00:14):
Welcome to the D and D FitnessRadio podcast, brought to you by your
hosts Don Saladino from New York Cityand Derek Hanson from Vancouver, Canada.
I was just up in evonton BenWhere is that? Isn't that like the

(00:36):
middle of nowhere? Yeah? It'slike it's like, I mean, Derek,
you're the You're the Canadian here.I mean it's up in Canada.
Yeah, anything west or east ofthe Rockies is pretty much the middle of
nowhere. So yeah, yeah,Vancouver's supposed to be really cool. Are
you scared? Uh? I was. I did the skiing thing and then
I did the snowboarding thing, andnow I'm old, so I'm like,

(00:57):
uh I fell a couple of times. I'm like, man, now that
I'm in my fifties, uh yeah, this isn't good. So I gave
all my equipment to my son andnow he does it, so that's cool.
It's I love skiing. Yeah,I tried snowboarding for like one season,
but I love skiing. Yeah,it's different. It's you fall a

(01:17):
lot harder in snowboarding, that's allI felt like. Yeah, well it's
like your tailbone and your wrist.Yeah. Yeah, you snowboard, right,
John, Yeah, I'm actually I'mgonna be up in Whistler on family
and I are going December twenty fifth. It was funny because we we booked
a flight at like three pm,thinking like the kids will get up in

(01:38):
like open presence, and you know, by that time noon, We'll heads
to the airport two hours before,and then Delsa calls and they're like,
uh, flights have been changed toeleven and we're like, okay, that's
early. And then I get anothercall They're like, flights have been changed
at seven thirty in the morning.And I'm like, what the fuck right,
let's I don't like just change allmy flights and now yeah back,
Oh it's a shit. You whereyou going on this year for Christmas?

(02:01):
Well, I mean Christmas and skiing. I'm kil yeah, Christmas going to
Florida. My mom is like,it's kind of coincidental, but my mom's
two hours from Nicole's parents, sowe do both. That's cool. And
then uh, skiing, I don'tknow. I honestly only ski. I
used to ski a lot. I'mfrom New Hampshire. Uh, but now

(02:21):
I ski like once every two seasons. It's just it's like a thing you
gotta fly. It's like there's nothingaround here, so I realistically, you
know, I'd like to say Igo more, but it's like once every
two seasons, I use a parkCity or Jackson Hole. Oh I haven't
been to Jackson Hole yet. ThatI don't want to see. Park Hole
is cool. It's like, uh, you know, it's good because like

(02:43):
they have like family friendly stuff andthen they have like you can you can
really ski there. The place you'vegot to check out. I know you
have a friend that just moved aroundthere. But is a big Sky Montana?
Yeah? Big yeah, Big Sky'ssick. Yeah, so that's I
went there three years ago and thati'd have been the most extreme terrain I've
seen like anywhere in North America.Yeah, they say that that and jack

(03:06):
Jackson Hole is like apparently like thehardest mountain that they say, like whatever.
For whatever that's got, Big Skuy'sbeen pretty uh pretty awesome. But
Derek, I don't know if you'regoing to come meet me. Yeah,
well we'll see, we'll see.Yeah, Yeah, it's not too far.
It's like an hour and a halffor me right to go to Whistler.
Right done, that's where you're going. Yeah, So so this is

(03:29):
kind of funny how this worked outtoday because Ben, I remember years ago.
So Ben and I became really reallygood friends. And you know I've
told this story. Ben. Youwere in my presentation over the week.
Actually, oh yeah, you werein my slide show all year. It
was it was like it's never toolate to start in digital because we were

(03:50):
all like Dennis as even talking likelook at so I'm in your slide show.
Is like the idiot that like didn'tno, no, You're basically like
this guy's a massive success, buthe did it when it was the right
time. I'm never I'm not abeliever like, oh it's too later.
It's not like when it's the righttime for someone, it's the right time
for someone. Like you just gotto like in this buss business, I
feel like you just gotta feel it, Like you have a million people around

(04:13):
you telling you to do something.But unless you're like feeling it, unless
you put time aside. Well,the thing for me, you know,
my first program, I don't Idon't have anything to compare it to,
but in my mind it's I havea lot more people doing it than I
would have ever thought. So therewas a part of me that after like
a week of releasing this thing,because I worked on it, you know,

(04:34):
I actively worked on it for likesix years. As embarrassing as that
is to say, I had.I shot all the videos and uh,
like six years ago. And rememberat my wedding Myers, Oh yeah,
yeah, the Meyer's wife, Elliewas my model. We did this like
six years ago, shot all thisstuff. And then our camera guy turned

(04:58):
out to be a scammer and justtook my money and ghosted me, just
ghosted me. And he was workingwith them too, he was you know,
I did it off a personal referral. He was helping them with some
stuff, and he just scammed bothof us and just left and ghosted me.
And I never saw the videos.The videos never saw the light of
day. And you know, youknow me personally, but other people don't.

(05:20):
But I there's almost nothing I hatemore in life than just like filming
a bunch of exercise tutorials. Sowhen I did that, it was four
days of filming, and because Ihave a men's and a women's program,
and it was two days for themen's, two days for the women,
and I was just like, ah, fuck, it wasn't meant to be.
So I did. That was likesix years ago. Then maybe four

(05:44):
years ago I forgot we were recording, so I was like, I'm throwing
some people under the bus here,but whatever. So then maybe yeah,
four years ago, one of myclients connected me this this girl had like
a popular pilates app. So he'slike, used their company, and you
know my personality, other people don't. I was like, yeah, cool,

(06:06):
successfully exclused, they're probably good.I signed something for like the first
Zoom call and it was you know, but I didn't read it. I
just assumed just signed it and goton the first Zoom call and I'm to
find out you had to pay inlike six installments and the first and so

(06:27):
I get on the Zoom call andthis company just sucked the everything they were
saying. I just didn't like.And you know, everyone has their own
way of doing stuff. Maybe thispilates girl liked it. To me,
it was like the cheesiest app ever. I never would have used it.
And they were using a third partysoftware. I didn't know this, but
the third party software. The ownerof that company used to write to me

(06:48):
all the time saying I could usethis platform for free. So I was
like, why would I use thiscompany? So after the first call,
I was like, hey, thanks, but no thanks, and I just
left. And like eight months laterI got this thing saying I owed him
thirty K and I was like,how about you kissed my ass? And

(07:08):
they were like, long story short, what I signed is to live and
learn thing. What I signed,I technically owed them the money because I
for this first call and everything,and you know, I come from a
small town. I sort of likeforget that there's snakes out there, but
there are. So I got snakeda second time on the project, and

(07:29):
then again I was like bucket,I guess it's not meant to be.
And it wasn't like I was workingon it every day for six years because
I trained people. It's like now, having done a program that's online.
People always used to tell me,dude, you got a you know,
a good social media you got tocreate passive income. I'm like, yeah,
you make money while you sleep,passive income. Then I launched the

(07:51):
program and I'm like, this ain'tpassive. Like, this is a lot
of work. This took me alot of time and it's constant upkeep there's
constant customer service, and you know, I'm somebody like you know, I
don't always respond to like my messagesif you're asking free advice, It's like
I'll do it if I can,but like I take it seriously when people

(08:13):
give me their money. So whenmy program buyers have questions and stuff like,
it's it's actually a lot. AndI'm realizing now why all the most
successful people online don't really train thatmany people, because it's like it's two
full time jobs. It really is. So I think like in person trainers
all think of the online world likethis passive income, like you're just chilling

(08:37):
and just raking it in, andI think that there is a lot of
like potential upside to it and youcan scale it way more. I'm finding
that, particularly as somebody who hasnever had a gym or trainers and doesn't
want a gym or trainers. That'sa whole other can of worms. But
I really feel like a lot oftrainers that start a gym do it just

(09:01):
because they think they're good trainers.And then I'm I know enough to like
talk to all my gym owner friendsand like there's way more to it than
being a good trainer. I thinkI would probably be close to the worst
gym owner ever. I feel likeI'm a good trainer, connect with clients
well and stuff, but like youknow, I'm disorganized, I hate managing
people. I'm sloppy like everything likethat like isn't conducing. Like I think

(09:24):
my ID probably run a gym rightinto the ground, so I've never done
that. But with that, theonline stuff is a good way to scale.
Now that said, it's like wayharder than I think people make it
seem to do well. And thento tie it back to what you're saying
about like the long wait thing,it's it's a funny thing because the first

(09:46):
month that I are actually, tobe honest, the first four days that
I launched my online program, Imade more than I've ever made in a
year training people. And I waslike, damn, jokes on me,
I should have just been doing inthis forever. And then I sort of
realized, well, and then it, by the way, then it like
slowed way down. I had abig bump in the beginning and then it

(10:07):
just like slowed way down. Butthinking about it more like without a doubt,
if I had like one like saythat video guy six years ago hadn't
have been a dipshit and screwed meout of my money, there's no chance
I would have gotten as many buyersthen as I did six years later,

(10:28):
and no chance four years ago.And the other thing. I think kind
of like the stars aligned with thetiming, because now I have fifteen years
of giving away free info, andpeople were just interested how I actually trained
people, because you know, forfifteen years, I've just showed tidbits.

(10:48):
I've showed a clip here of me, and a clip here of this client,
and a clip here of that client. But you know, when you
really know training, you know thatthe individual exercises aren't really that valuable without
the program. So I think peopleprobably were just wondering, like, you
know, uh, how the helldoes this guy put it all together?

(11:09):
And I think a lot of myyou know, I think a lot of
regular also too. In the lastsix years, I've developed a following way
outside of just like trainers, soa lot of my buyers now, back
in the day, it used tobe mostly trainers because I did trainer education
and stuff like that, and thenthrough training real people and people with like

(11:31):
big followings and stuff like that,my followers now are more. My social
media followers are more just like regularworker outers, and there's more of those
than trainers. So I think thatthat's all to say that, Like,
in one way, you know,the program was successful the first week I
launched. But in another way,if you really like wrote down how much

(11:54):
money it was for like fifteen years, it's actually not that much, you
know, like, uh, it'syou know, it's it's there's long,
but it's easy. Sorry sorry,but it's not as easy as as as
you're making. I mean that wasfifteen years of developing an email list that
was sixty to fifty writing. Yeah, like teenage all this stuff. Like

(12:16):
I first heard about you on teenageand I read a few of your articles.
I think it was early on.Man, it's so long. Depide
back when you were with Boyle andI started hearing your name and I was
reading your stuff and I was like, oh wow, this guy's smart,
like he like he knows the shit. And I saw you kind of lifting.
I was like, man, he'snot a big guy, but he's
like murdering weight right now, likefreakish is strong. So you caught my

(12:39):
eye on early on, and andyou know, how coaches are, like
you put like there's these two buckets, like you look at and use of
the word dipshits. Like there's certainpeople like I was looking at one today
not to mention his name, andI'm like, oh god, it's just
like every time I see him doingsomething, he doesn't it just like you
don't have to tell me off therebecause I get it. Yeah, it's
so funny. People get mad aboutit, but like I get a real

(13:01):
kick out of it. I thinkit's hilarious. But then like there's other
people that I put into a bucketof Like I look at him and I'm
like, that's good coaching or likeI'm like I'm almost like proud of it,
like I don't even know the theperson, like nice delivery, good
exercise selection, Like you're sitting thereand you're almost like proud that this person's,
you know, representing our field ina certain way. And Derek.
The first time Ben reached out tome when I was ironically, I was

(13:24):
on a train going up to seeMike Boyle. So I'm going up to
on a train. Yeah, soI'm going on a train up to boy
and I talked about this in oneof the conferences. It was like a
slide on networking. And wasn't Icalling to like send you a client?
Yeah? Yeah, yeah you AndI sat on the phone, and I
remember because I was on the ACELA. So I went over to the little
dave like a little phone booth areawhere you could take calls, and I

(13:46):
sat in there and I was talkinglow. Then I wanted to call for
an hour. And we're just shootingthe ship all for years and the next
thing you know, Ben, Igo to Boils like I just spoke to
Ben Bruins, like, oh mygod, I've Ben Bruno. We just
starting like he worked blah blah.I'm like, I know, I was
just on a call with him.Then I go back to New York and
Ben comes into my club and welike instantaneously, like we're at lunch,

(14:07):
we're working out, he's making melaugh, or like walking around New York
City checking out shops or just hangingout. Then he comes back in again
and he's like, oh, Igot two friends I want you to meet,
And I go who and he's likeKelsey and Dennis and Kelsey heena yeah
oh And they walk in and I'mlike oh. And then I'm shooting content
with them, like a week later, and then a year later, I'd
become really good friends with Dennis andKelsey and they're like, oh, we

(14:28):
have a friend we want you tomeet. His name is Luca Joseber.
So like it just started. Andthen the next thing you know, we're
all at Ben's wedding and we're allat the same team together with Gunnard Peterson,
who I met at Kenny Santucci's event, and it's like it's all it's
like this big domino effect and you'resitting here realizing like, oh my god,
this is my when I get togetherwith these people, these are my

(14:48):
closest friends. This is the oneswe have the most in common with and
mel and I. I mean Ben, Ben could have gotten married in Bangladesh,
it didn't matter. We were gettingon a plane to go see him.
There's certain people a fun ass time. By the way, thanks again
for I got the best. Derekwas just but it's the same with Derek.
You know, Derek was a driveand we met and now we're doing
a podcast together. So it's amazingstuff. Uh yeah, do you ever

(15:11):
find Ben like I get this sometimestoo, Like when I do online programs
and all that. I always feellike I'm not giving enough because I'm not
there, Like, how do youget over that sort of anxiety? Because
I still I still have that abit. And and like there was a
guy I was working with. He'sfrom Chicago and he just wasn't getting things
like through the video feedback and allthat. And then he was in Vancouver

(15:35):
for he was doing a cruise orsomething. I work with him one day
and we solved a whole bunch ofstuff. So I'm like, ah,
geez, I need the in persontoo, but how do you manage that?
Well? It's you know, that'sthat was a whole reason why it
took me so long to do theonline programming, because I have done enough
in person coaching to know that almostnobody does it right the first time show

(16:00):
them how to do it, andso that was the whole issue, was,
you know, how do how doI do this well? And because
there's that constant battle. I don'tknow about you guys, but there's that
constant battle as I get older anddo this longer and want to scale,
of wanting to scale and trying toincrease my income but never lose like the

(16:23):
integrity of my training and that's thenever you know, that's the never ending
thing I don't want to you know, currently, until this last program,
I was one of the dumbest businesspeople ever, I think because for fifteen
years, I've only ever done oneto one coaching, and you know,
I've never had anyone work under me. I've never gotten a cut as something

(16:45):
else. That's it like what youknow, you CA's kind of eat what
you kill type thing, and youknow, I've managed to do pretty well
with that. But the way theonly way I've done that, and you
guys can probably relate to this,but like, for fifteen years, I've
worked six to seven days a weekand that's just like it. I just
you know, I remember saving forthe down payment on my house and just

(17:07):
being like working backwards and going,okay, I got to make X amount
of money and this is what Imake an hour, and this is what
taxes hit me with every year,So this is how many sessions I gotta
do, like I better get toit. And that's just what I did
is I got the cheapest I livedin this back guest house for three years

(17:29):
and the cheapest rent I could find, and just worked backwards and said,
you know, this is my expensesif I live frugally, and I better
work this many sessions like I wish. In hindsight, I probably could have
done it, you know, smarterway, but I didn't work smarter than
I just worked harder and logged alot of sessions, you know, and

(17:51):
you guys can probably relate to that. I remember when I was saving for
my down payment and like something wouldlike happen to like my car, and
I'd get nicked for like four hundredbucks. Like fuck, Like that's like
I would this is literally how Ithink I'd be, Like that's like this
many sessions, but then taxes,so it's actually this many sessions. Fuck,
Like I wasn't expecting that, orlike you know, you'd go to

(18:11):
like a more expensive dinner and justbe you know anyway, that's that was
That's the only when you when you'rein a job where you trade time for
money, that's the only way tomake money is to work with so uh.
You know. I used to workat this trainer only gim and they
would be you know, I rememberthe gym owner would be like walking in
the lyft at nine am on aSunday and I'd be like two clients deep.

(18:33):
He's like, who the fuck isthis guy? Just you know,
I was just doing that every day, and you know I don't regret it
because the other thing is when youdo that many sessions, like I think,
you just become a way better trainer. You know. I interned at
Boils and it was like the bestplace to intern because in the summer they
have like four hundred people come throughthe door a day. So it's like

(18:55):
within one year of training, Itrained like a group of ten year old
hockey players. Is a blind guy, some pro athletes, you know,
a six hundred pound guy. Everysingle injury you can imagine, and like
that's the way to get good,you know, is just doing it all
to where like now I feel likeanybody that walks through the door, they

(19:18):
could tell me any ailment they haveand I won't blink. I'll just be
like, yeah, fuck it,I got you. Even if I have
no clue, I like have enoughof a clue to do the first workout
confidently and then learn how to doit after. That's literally what I do.
If somebody walks through and they havelike a something that I've never heard
of as long as it's like Ifeel like I'm not going to hurt them.
I'm just like, yeah, totally, I got you, and we

(19:41):
just like do basic stuff and thenlike they leave and I get right on
Google, like I don't know ifthat even is uh, and I figured
it out. You know, Ireally think there's something to be said about
that. Right, it's like havingthat work ethic in the training business and
you almost start playing these games Derek. Right, it's it's every week because
you know, I get it.For twenty five years, it was like,
all right, well, how manysessions am I getting this week?

(20:03):
And by the end of the week, you're like, oh I hit forty
seven or oh I hit fifty five. It becomes this game and then you're
calculating how much money. And that'sthe thing people don't realize when you do,
Like when you're the numbers, you'rethrown out. I've done that too,
But people don't realize that fifty sessionweek ain't a fifty hour week.
That is like you've done nothing elsebut work and sleep week, right,

(20:26):
fifty hour training weeks like one hundredhour get my opinion. It's just like,
yeah, it's so and the factthat you have to be on every
client. Then there's program designed,then there's follow ups. It's just it's
it's just, you know, it'sa lot of work. So what do
you think nowadays because of this digitalbusiness going on? And I think there
is a misconception, right right,Like people are under the assumption that someone

(20:48):
like you is you know, oh, he's just selling online programs and he's
just doing his thing, and likeit all came easy, like you were.
You did it the way I thinkif any coach can go and do
it like having that back and thethree of us really have it right,
Like we started in the trenches,Ben, right, but you had a
lot of cold mornings up at Boylefacility, right, You had a lot
of mornings where you were opening andclosing facilities. Nowadays, everyone just wants

(21:12):
to be Ben Bruno and you know, become a massive success and start training
celebrities and doing all this stuff.It's like, all right, well what
about the fifteen twenty years before thatthat no one's really talking about. Well
it's actually funny because my mom textedme two weeks ago and it was a
picture she posts on Facebook like onceevery three years, but it was one

(21:34):
of those memories. Two weeks agowas the ten year anniversary that I moved
to La So right before I movedhere, we had dinner and she put
that on Facebook and she sent thatto me. So I was going back
through in my phone. I haven'tposted it yet, but I was going
to do and I'm still going todo a post just kind of reflecting on
the ten years. But I foundthis photo of when I was at Boyles,

(22:00):
I had a group of high schoolboys that we called Project Diesel.
I trained them for like four summersand some of them trained with me throughout
the year. But you know,it was, you know, all hockey
players and two football players. Theyjust love to work out. You know.
By the end of Project Diesel,they were all taller than me.
You know, I'm short guy.They were all like bigger than me and

(22:21):
stuff like that. And Project Dieselwas like how I got on the map
as a trainer, because that's whoI would share in my videos and it
was this Mostly it was this highschool hockey team called Central Catholic and then
a couple other kids from other schools, but we had like ten kids in

(22:41):
that group that could do Bulgarian splitsquats. With two twenty five on the
bar on their back for five aside, and also ten kids that could
do like hand cleans with two twentyfive for three reps. They were really
strong for high school hockey. Andalso around ten that could trap bar four
h five for five. Those werelike our three main exercises. And people

(23:06):
would always ask me, like,how you get these guys so strong,
and I would say it's two things. One, I used the plus five
system of progression, which is justlike most workouts. We had five pounds
if we can, you know,and over the course of four years that
adds up to a lot of weight. And Two, I used to go
to like every single game of thekids. So I went to every night

(23:27):
after work. I would like bein like cold hockey rinks. I'd be
at football fields schmoozing with the parentsbecause I wanted the parents to have them
train year round because I knew theywere paying. So if you get kids
for four seasons a year instead ofone, they're just going to be way
stronger. And so I had allthese kids that just lifted year round for

(23:47):
all the time, and we wouldlift, we'd go to Chipotle, we
you know, it was this thingwe just and we trained so hard.
We'd crank the music. We'd havedays where it was like disco themed and
I'd come in and neon and likeI didn't give a shit if it got
them to lift heavy, we wouldwe do all kind of you know,
I'd let him pick the music.I would do stuff like, you know,
if any of them beat me onpull ups, they didn't have to

(24:10):
condition that day. We do allkind of stuff. They were probably the
strongest high school hockey team ever toexist. They were really strong, you
know. And Project Diesel was probablyprobably the strongest group of high school hockey
kids ever. And I was lookingat the list. One of them just
won to Stanley Cup. His name'sJack Eichel. I started training him when

(24:33):
he was thirteen, and I haveold YouTube videos of him when he was
fifteen, hand cleaning three fifteen,crazy stuff. And I was going to
share that photo because I used tocome in every Sunday for free and tell
any of the kids, because that'swhen I shot my videos for my teenage
articles. Because there was nobody inthe gym, so I told him anyone

(24:55):
that wants to come through for extrapractice, like come through, and I
would train them all for free onandays do all this stuff. But I
was looking at that photo going like, man, I worked way harder for
my clients back in the day forfree than I do now for these high
paying celebrities. But I still thinkthe same stuff applies when you think.
Like I saw this saying one time, and it wasn't related to training,

(25:18):
but it said like, if youdo good work, the good work finds
you, and I was like,man, that is so true in our
job. But you know, yeah, this was like a lot of a
lot when I was training some ofthese kids. I wasn't even a certified
trainer yet. I was just like, I remember, you know, Don
We've talked about it. But Iused to train with Chris Krider. We
would lift together and I would therewere days that I would read Dan John's

(25:42):
book Never Let Go, and wewould just open up a chapter I'll never
forget. We read a chapter abouttabata front squads and it said, you
know, twenty seconds of front squadingrest ten seconds eight rounds. And now
there's like arguments if that's a truetobata. I don't know if it is
or it isn't, but it's reallyhard doing eight sets of twenty seconds on

(26:03):
ten seconds up and I'll never forget. We we read the article and Dan
John was like, now, don'ttry to be a hero and do one
thirty five on the bar, Likeit's harder than you think, so do
ninety five. And Chris and Ijust looked at each other and we're like,
one thirty five, all right,fuck it, Like when we just
did it, and like we youknow, and you know, there's a
lot to be said for like wedid a lot wrong, but we were

(26:26):
like working really hard in the process, you know, and and uh,
you know, I think when you'reyoung, when you get older, you
have to be smarter about it,but when you're young, there's a lot
to be said for just trying everythingand doing it, you know, you
know, pedal to the metal.And that's what we did. And I
had so many days back then whereI would like train with one guy in

(26:49):
the morning, be dead tired.Then someone else would call me out two
hours later, and I'm like,all right, when I'm a big boy
pants and do a second workout theexact same one, right, you know,
I can't do that anymore. ButI was looking at that group of
Project Diesel because I was still gonnapost that, and I was just thinking,
like if I had any advice forup and coming trainers, it's never

(27:11):
profound, but I think the bestadvice is just like I did so much
in the gym with these guys,but I was like at their games,
I was doing everything, and likeyou see now, like my clients are
all at my wedding, I'm stilllike that. Like every day is like
I don't think there's been a dayof me being a trainer that I haven't
texted everyone from the day before goinghow you feeling, And I don't care

(27:33):
if they reply or not. Aftera while they usually don't even reply,
but I just want them to know, like he's still thinking about my workout.
And you know, even if theythink I'm annoying, it's like nobody
I've ever trained with will tell youlike I don't care about their workouts.
You know, it's valuable, Derek, I think that's probably the most valuable
lesson not even a coach can listento. But I think in business value

(28:00):
just becoming as a line I keepusing, like let them think of you
as a necessity rather than a luxury. So when you talk about like when
you talk about trainers, thinking like, oh, they're just like training high
end clients. You know this too. We're in a service industry job.

(28:21):
So it's like, probably I stoppedworking at a gym about ten years ago.
That was the last time I workedat a gym. So in what
in some way you work for yourselfthat you know in some way, but
in another way, if I havefifteen clients, I kind of feel like
I have fifteen bosses in the senseof, like, I know, without

(28:44):
saying, anybody that trains real people, and particularly like high end people was
with schedules and stuff. Not aday goes by, like on social media
might seem like I'm just like chilling, but I'm getting dicked around on my
schedule every day. I'm you know, bending over backwards every day to make
it work for everyone. And that'llprobably never change until I stop doing in
person training. That's just like whatit is. And as you move up,

(29:07):
it's like worse because like people havecrazier schedules and you know, so
my schedule is an absolute shit showbecause I'm I'm at the mercy of a
lot of people with crazy schedules,so mine's even crazier. And for me,
it's like I go to bed thinkingmy schedule is going to be this
one day, this one way,and it never works out that way.

(29:29):
It always moves and you just kindof do your best to make it work.
But there's no easy way. Ina service industry job, you're never
really like chilling working for yourself.And people are like, oh, you
probably make your own hours, right, and I'm like, yeah, my
hours are pretty much like literally wheneversomeone wants to trade, because that's how
I make money, you know.So it's a little different when I was
single. I had no boundaries withhours. When I was single, it

(29:53):
would be like I don't care ifit's you know, cause I have some
clients actually that are like really dedicatedto training. So I have clients that
used to be like six am ona Sunday, Hey, I have a
flight at eight am. Can wego at six Yeah? Fuck it,
I've done I've done workouts at elevenPM. For me, it's literally like
I I when you talk about thehigh end clients, I'm not naive to

(30:18):
the fact that, like most trainerswould probably give up their whole book of
training for a lot of my clients, they just would and so I approach
every single day like I have tobe available and that's just what it is.
So I'll pretty much do it anytime. I've had to draw a little
more boundaries as I get older andnow that I'm married and stuff. I'd
probably like have to face wrath ifI trained at like two weird at times,

(30:41):
But that's just how I am.I'm a worker, and it's like
you have to do that, Ithink, and I you know, I
take pride in the fact that I'veI have a lot of clients that could
probably train with any trainer they want, and they would just take them on
that day. And I've had themfor ten years since I've been here,
And I think that comes from likenever losing sight of like we might be

(31:04):
cool, but at the end ofthe day, like we might be like
friends, but at the end ofthe day, like I better be available.
I better be on that day.Even the clients I'm friends with and
are paid workouts, if I'm havinga bad day, they don't know it.
And you know I'm available, youknow, not all the time.
I'm human, but I'm available waymore than i'm not. I'm texting them

(31:25):
how you're feeling if we add ina new move, I text them the
next day, make sure they're feelingokay, if they have any injury that's
been nagging him, I check inon them. And you know, I
think that's how you keep clients andthat and to that point, like people
always ask me how to get clients, and I'm like, I'm not that
good at getting clients. I onlyhave like fifteen, but I've just had

(31:47):
them for ten years. I neverhave to get them if you keep them
big. Yeah, I'm reading Idon't know if you guys watch the series
streaming series, The Bear, butyeah, the restaurant, Yeah, watch
the whole thing is incredible. Yeah. So I started reading that book Unreasonable
Hospitality, and so you know,it basically says what you're saying there about

(32:12):
going above and beyond in terms ofproviding service and that when you talk,
that's what I think of. I'mjust going through that book right now.
And there was one episode where itwas the best restaurant in the world and
they showed the level of service theyprovided, And I don't know if people
think about that enough. I don'twell, I mean, I think I

(32:36):
think successful people probably do. It'slike, you know, I just got
back for my honeymoon and we wentto this one hotel that was like considered
one of the best hotels. Andwe got there and because I pay attention
to this stuff. I'm a serviceindustry guy too, so I paid attention
and I just thought, like theguy, So my wife has like a

(32:57):
lot of food like restriction, it'sgluten, dairy whatever. And this is
in France. They don't even it'snot English, isn't even their primary language.
But the waiters by our third day, actually by our second day,
knew both of our names and allher dietary preferences. And I've never actually
seen that ever in a restaurant thatthey knew that. And I just thought,

(33:22):
like, this is like one ofthose fancy hotels that you know,
all the big shots get married atand whatnot. And I just the whole
time when they brought your towel tothe pool, it was like they use
your name, they remembered, youknow, they they remembered they had this
outdoor pull up bar and they rememberedthat I like to use that. So

(33:43):
they were telling me like, okay, the water's clear this time of day,
and I just thought, like,there's a reason this is like considered
one of the best hotels in theworld. Like every single person knew Nicole
and I's name by like pretty muchwhen we got there, and I was
just like, I don't even knowhow they did and I don't even know
how they did that, but Iknow why they're successful, you know.

(34:06):
Yeah, I mean now I wantto pivot for one second, because the
one thing that I love about youryour training is the simplicity of it,
right, Like you and I alwaystalk about it, where I think even
with your program design, you'll you'llpost things that I think are new movements
and cool, and I think itdefinitely they are eye catching. But you

(34:28):
know, I think when it comesdown to your program design, like I'm
more of a basic type person.I mean, obviously we both understand that
different people need different things, andDerek knows that as well as anyone,
But you know, what is yourmindset when it comes down to program design
and exercise selection. And I thinka lot of things that you're seeing on
the internet right now that unfortunately peopleare putting up just to act as clickbait.

(34:52):
Yeah, well, so I havea lot of thoughts. You can
tell me to shut up at anypoint. But we do full body workouts
more from a practical reason than anything, and that's I don't have a single
client that has a set schedule withme, so I just personally believe that
full body is like the simplest wayto do it when you don't know when

(35:15):
someone's next workout is going to be. You know, we usually schedule day
to day. So like when Isay I do full body, what people
don't know behind the scenes is thatthat most of my clients we schedule day
to day. I'm not sure whentheir next workout is, and they're often
not sure when their next workout is. So I think a lot of the

(35:35):
splits can work very well, butit requires a more set routine, and
so it tends to work better forpeople that have a set routine. So
I don't train anyone like that.So that's we do full body first and
foremost. Now that said, whenyou see someone on a day to day
basis, full body doesn't mean we'rejust hitting everything equally every day. It

(36:00):
means like, if you know,if we if somebody's legs are tired one
day, you know, we mightgo easy on legs and heavier on upper
body or vice versa, that typeof thing or whatever. But I just
think full body. I always saypracticality trump's perfection. So uh, when
you don't know when people are goingto come, I think full body is

(36:22):
the way to go. So that'swhat we we typically do. There.
There have been times I've had athleteswith a set routine where we do upper
lower and whatnot, but by andlarge we do full body also too.
I always think that most Internet argumentsamongst trainers come from from people just coming

(36:43):
from a different context, you know. Uh, you know, bodybuilders arguing
with sports trainers or powerlifters or stufflike that, where where they just have
different goals, but different training goalsdictate the training. And you know,
so I don't, for example,I don't really train any guys guys that
are trying to be like that big, like the guys that that I train

(37:06):
use like Brad Pitt fight Club astheir goal physique or you know, and
I train you know, basketball playersthat don't want to be big. So
I'm very oh and you know memyself, I'm I'm a lot smaller than
a lot of trainers. And Idon't I don't personally like being bigger,
you know, like right now,I'm like one hundred and sixty five pounds,

(37:27):
and I like it, Like that'syou know, if I had my
way, I might be even likefive pounds less. Like I've never I've
always uh looked up to like BruceLee more than Arnold Scharzenegger type of thing,
Like I just like h and Idon't. That's one thing about training,
like our goals, Like I thinkbeauty is in the eye of the
beholder, and we can all dowhatever we want, you know, And

(37:51):
so as a trainer, I justlike hear what they want to do and
do that, not like what Ithink looks, you know. And so
I think full bo a really goodway when you're just trying to be like,
you know, muscular and stuff,but not too big. I think
that's a great way to do it. Oh love it, yeah, see
honestly. Yeah. To me,like when when someone can do a full

(38:14):
dragon flag all the way down allthe way up for a couple of reps,
that to me is like one ofthe ultimate where I'm like, Okay,
you're strong, but everybody, youknow, like I'm way more impressed
by that than like a big bench. But everybody's different. And if you
ask me my goal physique. I'drather look like skinny with clothes on,
and then like when I take myshirt off, it's obvious I lift.

(38:35):
So for me, you know,if somebody told me they wanted to get
much bigger, I would probably copybodybuilders more or send them to a bodybuilder
or something like that. But that'snot what I do really, so uh
you know. And then when youtalk about basics, it's it's that's an
interesting thing as a trainer because mepersonally, I've done like you know,

(39:00):
me and my my best friend.You met, uh Jason Essex at my
wedding. He's in my groom's party. He's my best friend. He lifts
with me all the time, anduh he has the same he's way taller,
but uh is he the kind inreal estate? No? No,
no, no, he's uh doesmovie production stuff. I got you.
But uh, you know he usedto play He used to play D one

(39:22):
basketball and then played in Australia.He's an athletic dude. But we basically
I do like the same ten exercisesand I've done him like my whole life.
I do like way less variation thanmy clients, even like because because
I know enough to know, likeif I trained my clients how I train,
I'd be unemployed because most people getbored and I don't. So it's

(39:44):
like every single workout of my lifefor the last like ten years, I
either do like a dumbbell press variationor a push up a chin up or
a dumbbell row rear foot elevated squator like a gobleinter front squat and then
either a leg curl or an RDLand I've just that's like what I that's

(40:07):
basically how I train. That's likeit and I pushed like a bunch of
sleds and ride the bike. Andfor me, I don't this Again,
everybody's different. I hate being sore, so I like to kind of keep
the moves consistent and not really switchit up. I actually have one client

(40:27):
like that, an older guy thatwe've rotated an A and A beat workout
for nine years, and literally whenI've sent him to other trainers, he
goes email him the workout. Hedoesn't like to change it up, and
to me, that's actually awesome,like they're both good workouts and he's managed
to stay really healthy from sixty yearsold to seventy years old, which to

(40:51):
me, that's great, you know, hasn't gained, you know, so
we don't change it up. Hewhen I met him, he said,
every time these trainers try to getcutesie, I get hurt. So we
just do an A and B workoutand I loved it. And then I
have clients that if we do anexercise that we did the week before,
They're like, dude, we didthat last week and I'm like, yeah,

(41:14):
like, and we're going to doit next week and the week after
and the weekend. For those typeof people, you sort of I actually
do believe that you should enjoy whatyou're doing. And so I don't think
anybody. I don't think anybody's wrong. We all have different preferences. If
the three of us went went togo eat at like the nicest restaurant in
the world, there's all gonna bestuff on the menu that we don't like,

(41:36):
but it's still like good if youjust don't like it, you know.
And so for me, those clientsthat have more like training add I
do switch it up more, nottoo much, like I try to as
much as I can get them torepeat things, but we do a lot
of I just call it similar butdifferent. So like instead of like a
rear foot elevated squad, we'll doa reverse lunch than a walking lunch,

(42:00):
and then we'll hold the weight uphere, hold the weight at our sides.
It's all the same shit, butlike we switch it up more that
way more just because I know theylike it. And I do think people
particularly, you know, if somebodyis not a competitive athlete and just training
for general fitness, I actually thinkit's like probably more important that they enjoy

(42:21):
it than it's like optimal. Sowe definitely change it depending on people's personality.
And that's the hard part. That'sthe hardest part I've had within the
online program is that you know,when you get thousands of people, there's
just no way that everyone's going tolike it. So I have a hard
time with that knowing, you know, I have mindset structured in a certain

(42:45):
way, and I'm like, Ihope people like this, but I just
know not everyone will, and that'sfine. You know, in time,
I'll probably have more programs and stuff. But from being an in person trainer,
a lot of the variation that yousee me share on social media is
for those clients that just like differentstuff. And but if you were to

(43:07):
like look at almost anything I've evershared, they're all like cousins of like
eight basic moves. They're just youknow, you just tweak it a little
bit different. And and I actuallydo think there's probably a physical benefit.
You know, we like to laughabout the whole like shock to body thing,
and I don't think it's that.But I do think that as I

(43:29):
train longer, I think it's goodto like modify things. And in my
own training, so like when Isay I do the same eight moves,
I actually probably do more because I'llload them differently or you know, I
actually find I think part of thereason that I've been a successful in person

(43:50):
trainer for the type of clients thatI train is one I probably like like
training less than a lot of trainerslike. I like it, but I
don't love it, Like as ifyou told me like that I could just
like look how I want to lookwithout working out, Like I probably wouldn't
work out that much just being likedead honest. So I think I have

(44:14):
kind of, like in my owntraining, kind of figured out that minimal
effective dose thing that a lot ofreal people probably appreciate too, because I
don't. I don't train gym rats. I train people that want to look
and feel good but not like beingyou know, give their life over to
the gym. And that's how Iam. So I think that's helped.
And the other thing is I gotinto training after a pretty serious back surgery

(44:37):
when I was nineteen, so I'vealways had to work around stuff. And
I'm somebody, uh you know,I would say anybody that's lifted with me,
I'm a form guy. I liftwith really good form and I still
get hurt of fair amount. I'mkind of like injury prone. And I
actually think that's made me a bettertrainer for adults because I kind of like

(45:01):
have have to work. I'm alwaysworking around stuff, and it's like helped
me pick up tricks that I've likenever really read in a book for how
to work around stuff. So mymy own workouts actually are like my main
fodder for my client's workouts, sortof like how can I train my legs

(45:22):
hard? I've had you know,I had two knee surgeries when I was
nineteen and twenty one, Like youknow, uh, I don't think the
Internet likes to say this, butI do think, like, if you
have joint problems. Even like thesafe exercises aren't safe if you're going super
heavy. So it's like, youknow, people will say, you know,

(45:43):
if you have back problems, frontsquad instead of back squad, And
I can tell you that, like, if you front squad heavy, it's
still not that joint friendly if youhave joint problems, you know. And
if you dumbbell bench instead of barbellbench, but you're using really heavy weights
and you have shoulder issues, it'sstill not that joint friendly. Like your
still your shoulders still going to barkat you when the weights get up to

(46:04):
a certain weight. So I've kindof found a lot of ways myself to
uh get a good training effect withlike not going quite so heavy, which
I think a lot of adults appreciate. Toodee. What about in reference to
your reference to your training, youpretty much followed more of a bend school
of thought right when it comes tooh, yeah, you've you've never been

(46:28):
too fancy with your program. Yeah, I like, you know, I
think when I was younger, youknow, always do a pull from the
floor, do some sort of press, do some sort of squat, you
know, do variations on those uh, you know, to some degree.
But yeah, I'm like, I'mlike, Ben, if I go to
a restaurant and I know that thisdish is good, I'll probably order that

(46:50):
dish rather than try something new.Like that's just the way I am.
I'm like, I don't know,it's not like I'm not it's not that
I'm risk averse, but I'm like, that is good good, So why
would I go away from that achance? No, No, it's actually
funny. I do believe in thatsaying success leaves clues. But I've been
very fortunate to get to train alot of really high level pro athletes,

(47:15):
and training pro athletes is an interestingthing because I'm somebody that when I get
when I get somebody that's already veryestablished as being very good in their sport,
I never try to like reinvent whatthey're doing because when when I when
you train pro athletes in the privatesector, I'm not doing it year round.
That's just like for a couple ofmonths in their off season. And

(47:36):
so to me, like they're alreadygood, like and I do believe that,
and I tell them this, Ithink they know their body better than
I do. When you're very attuned, So I just listen to them and
sort of like keep it going whateverthey've been doing, and and offer input
if they're doing something that I thinkis going to be detrimental. But a
lot of really good athletes sort ofhave their routine where they could tell you

(47:59):
just their routine that's just like whatit is, and they never you know,
I trained this guy, Brad Beal, who's a great, great basketball
player. You met him at onceDone, But at the start of every
single summer he always says, like, it ain't broke, so let's not
fix it, and we just dothe same thing and try to get to
the point he was at at theat the end of the previous summer and

(48:21):
go back and do what you do. I'm not trying to like turn these
guys into weight room warriors. It'slike they know what they feel good,
what makes them feel good and stayhealthy, and you know, if we
find a system that works, wejust you know, I was actually looking
at some of the clips of thisone basketball guy that I have over like

(48:42):
the last seven years, and it'sjust the same stuff every summer. And
then when you but when you lookat most people in physical things, they
all have their routine, like ifyou watch like Ronnie Coleman's DVD. I
used to get Bodybuilder DVDs. Butif you ask Ronnie Coleman his routine,
and he won't even tell you likethis is chess day, this is back

(49:04):
day. He'll tell you this setsand the reps and the exercises. He
just does the same routine and it'syou know, it's his routine, and
like who's to argue with that?And I do think that it's usually like
the people that don't see great resultsthat are trying to like hack and bio
hack their routine to like you know, get it perfect. And it's always

(49:28):
funny to me when I see likepeople like fitness guys online that are like
weak, skinny guys trying to likebiohack everything, And I'm like, I
don't think your routine's better than therest of us. Like I think it's
worse. Like you're trying to likeoverthink it. And there's a lot to
be said for just like having yourroutine that's repeatable and you just keep you

(49:51):
know, you just do it.But I and that said, like we're
all built different. Like when Istand next to Dawn, it looks like
I've never touched a weight in mylife, and uh, you know,
it looks like he's just put mein a locker and take my milk money.
And so when when I see him, there's a lot of exercises done

(50:14):
that you do that I know likethose bother me, but I know they
don't bother you, So I don'tthink they're bad for you, but I
think they're not good for me.And then there's probably some that I do
that based on your injury history andbody type and stuff, you'll go like,
I don't I don't like this one. You know, uh, you
know, and neither of us arewrong. We have the same principles behind

(50:37):
our training. And then you kindof like plug and play exercises. You
know, a lot my training partnerthat I told you he's six seven and
I'm like five eight, five nine, So like we don't look we don't
do well with the same stuff,Like liftings different when you're six seven,
So it's like, uh, youknow, we there's modifications, but like

(51:00):
you know, like my lifting partnerand I actually don't do the same stuff.
He's we're just kind of in theretogether, but it's the same,
Like we both do full body,we both do just like one exercise for
each muscle group blah blah blah.But like exercise, you know, there's
a million exercises. If you sawthe way I trained, a lot of

(51:20):
people will say, like, youknow, Ben likes these exercises only.
But then if you were to sitin my gym, A lot of my
clients do way different exercises than Ido. But they're different, you know.
Uh, they have different injury history. You know, I've been lucky
to never have like shoulder problems.For example, knock on wood now will
probably hurt my shoulder. Uh.I gotta be honest, Like I read

(51:43):
all this stuff about how dips aredangerous, and I'm like, I believe
you guys, but I've done dipsmy whole life and they don't hurt me,
so like uh. But then atthe same time, I'll hear stuff
where people go you know, uh, there's a lot of like arguments about
like backsquats for example, are theygood for your back? Bad for your
back? I don't think they're probablybad for a lot of people's back.

(52:05):
But I can tell you as somebodywith back surgery, like I'm a I
have pretty strong legs. When Iwent no matter what, if I backsquad
over a certain weight, my righthip in my back bark at me.
It's just what happens. Like Sothere's no study that I'll ever read that
will tell me that that's that wouldmake me go do them for my back
because they hurt me. And Ihave clients that can't do dips, so

(52:27):
we don't do them, but Ican do them. It's like a it's
an interesting you know, it justis what it is one hundred percent.
So Ben listen, we just hitlike pretty much hit hit it now.
I mean, yeah, if youknow the healthier time, when can you
let everyone know about your programs wherethey can find them? You know,
any information, your Instagram, yourwebsite, whatever it is, so they

(52:49):
can go check them out. Yeah. I have an Instagram it's Ben Bruno
Training and I think the link forthe programs on that probably links to the
website too. Uh. And Ihave Twitter, but I barely tweet.
I'm the same way to you onTwitter. I have and then I started
that threads and I loved it forthe first week and then I forgot that

(53:13):
it existed. What's going on withthat right now? I mean, I
think I'm even signed up for itand I haven't put one up yet.
Yeah, it's it's basically Twitter,I think, but yeah, I go.
Yeah, basically Instagram is the onlyone I use. And then I
have a TikTok that it's actually funny. I started a TikTok, but the
guy that helps me with my videofor my app does the TikTok. He

(53:35):
basically repost my stuff off Instagram.But I'll go on and check. Basically,
I just get trolled one hundred percentof the time on TikTok, so
I told him, like, youcan stop. The TikTok man a needle
for my life. It's all kidsthat just tell me how dumb I am.
I can't What are they saying toyou? What are they like,
you don't know what you're doing?I host my clients that you know,

(53:58):
it's funny. Every in like trainerworld, I'm a lot of like powerlifter
types call me wimpy by my exerciseselection because I don't, you know,
do backsquad that type of thing.They think it's like overly conservative. And
then in TikTok world, everything Ipost, they're like, ri ip to

(54:20):
this guy's knees, r ip tothis guy's back, he's gonna get hurt.
He's amazing. It's it's amazing howsome dipshit kids going to criticize you.
Funny. Well, it's also funnyto me because on tick I never
put how much weight people are doing, but sometimes I do with my clients.
But for me, I'm not tryingto like call anyone out. I'm
just sharing this stuff. I can'ttell you the amount of time someone's like

(54:43):
I do more weight and I'm like, all right, cool, like that
type of thing. Oh my god, it does you know, it's it's
almost it's almost become a bit comicalnow, right, Like I for some
reason, I don't know, I'mnot I don't get a lot of I
don't get a lot of garbage.Maybe I don't know why. Once in
a while I get a fair amount. But it's funny to me because like,

(55:04):
like I get a lot of shipfrom like bodybuilders, but they're like
not like the successful ones, Likethey're like as like that. It's funny
like all these people like will belike, oh, this guy doesn't even
look like he lifts, Like I'mbigger than him, blah blah blah.
Meanwhile, like I'm friends with likePhil Heath and he's the most encouraging guy
ever. He's always like that's awesome. Anytime I post a client, he's

(55:25):
like, great job, they're tryinghard. Like from like the most successful
guys like are cool. It's alwayslike the dipshits that get at what they
do. Tone like the strongest deadlifterever is like always like super supportive of
like everything we're doing. And thensome powerlifters like, man, you're such
a pussy And meanwhile, I'm likelooking at the guy, I'm like,

(55:46):
you're not even that strong for beinga powerlifter. You're just ripping on me.
Anyway. I love it, Ben, You're freaking you are the best
man. I'm telling you, youreally are. And thank you for finally
doing this. I know this isI didn't even ask Ben. I was
just like, hey, Ben,you gotta come on the podcast. I
mean, I can go as longas you guys want. I got nothing

(56:07):
but time you. I love you, definitely, see how you doing.
Yeah, well we'll get you onagain for sure, and yeah we should
bring you back on and we couldjust the thing what we like to do
is we just doesn't have to betraining topics. We just like to talk
like you know what I'm saying.It's just this is just more conversational.
It's just cool. It's fun.So let's do it again. We'll do
it again a couple of months ifyou don't mind. Yeah, when you're

(56:30):
up here, when you're up herevisiting Nicole's parents, come, yeah,
dude, how about that day wewere supposed to hang and then like you're
like, everything flooded. It wascrazy, dude. It didn't rate,
Derek. It didn't stop rating outhere for like a week. I've never
that's your yard flood because her theirwhole yard flooded. It was like crazy,
We had a flood in a section, but there was gone the next

(56:52):
day. Yeah, I was like, this is weird, unbelievable. All
right, Ben, I'll give youa call next week. Brother, and
good guys. Take care of that. Thanks a man, all right. Yehm

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Episode 158 - Ben Bruno: Scaling Good Coaching Without Compromise

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 158 - Ben Bruno: Scaling Good Coaching Without Compromise