January 31, 2024 • 45 mins
In Episode 161, we are joined by Dr. David Rabin to talk about his involvement in the creation of an innovative wearable device that helps individuals manage their nervous systems responses and encourage relaxation and calm through tactile vibration, similar to the sensation of touch. Through his research and work with Apollo Neuro, Dr. Rabin has developed an accessible wearable technology device that produces a spectrum of frequencies that can be used to create a relaxing response that can help with sleep and focus, as well as improve energy for cognitive and physical activities. In the podcast, he identifies the steps taken to develop the technology, as well as the many applications for the wearable.
Dr. Dave Rabin, MD, PhD, is a neuroscientist, board-certified psychiatrist, health tech entrepreneur & inventor who has been studying the impact of chronic stress in humans for over 15 years. He is the co-founder & Chief Medical Officer at Apollo Neuroscience, which has developed the first scientifically-validated wearable technology that actively improves sleep, relaxation, focus, and calm, using a novel touch therapy that signals safety to the brain. Dr. Rabin is the Executive Director of The Board of Medicine & the Medical Director of the Apollo Clinic.
You can find out more information on Dr. David Rabin and Apollo Neuro below:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdavidrabin/ https://www.instagram.com/apolloneuro/
Website: https://www.drdave.io/
https://apolloneuro.com/
The D&D Fitness Radio podcast is available at the following locations for downloadable audio, including:
iTunes – https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/d-d-fitness-radio-podcast/id1331724217
iHeart Radio – https://www.iheart.com/podcast/dd-fitness-radio-28797988/
Spreaker.com – https://www.spreaker.com/show/d-and-d-fitness-radios-show
Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/5Py2SSPA4mntNwYRm0Opri
You can reach both Don and Derek at the following locations:
Don Saladino: http://www.DonSaladino.com
Twitter and Instagram - @DonSaladino
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/donsaladino
Derek M. Hansen: http://www.SprintCoach.com
Twitter and Instagram - @DerekMHansen
YouTube - http://youtube.com/derekmhansen
Dr. Dave Rabin, MD, PhD, is a neuroscientist, board-certified psychiatrist, health tech entrepreneur & inventor who has been studying the impact of chronic stress in humans for over 15 years. He is the co-founder & Chief Medical Officer at Apollo Neuroscience, which has developed the first scientifically-validated wearable technology that actively improves sleep, relaxation, focus, and calm, using a novel touch therapy that signals safety to the brain. Dr. Rabin is the Executive Director of The Board of Medicine & the Medical Director of the Apollo Clinic.
You can find out more information on Dr. David Rabin and Apollo Neuro below:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drdavidrabin/ https://www.instagram.com/apolloneuro/
Website: https://www.drdave.io/
https://apolloneuro.com/
The D&D Fitness Radio podcast is available at the following locations for downloadable audio, including:
iTunes – https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/d-d-fitness-radio-podcast/id1331724217
iHeart Radio – https://www.iheart.com/podcast/dd-fitness-radio-28797988/
Spreaker.com – https://www.spreaker.com/show/d-and-d-fitness-radios-show
Spotify – https://open.spotify.com/show/5Py2SSPA4mntNwYRm0Opri
You can reach both Don and Derek at the following locations:
Don Saladino: http://www.DonSaladino.com
Twitter and Instagram - @DonSaladino
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/donsaladino
Derek M. Hansen: http://www.SprintCoach.com
Twitter and Instagram - @DerekMHansen
YouTube - http://youtube.com/derekmhansen
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:14):
Welcome to the D and D FitnessRadio podcast, brought to you by your
hosts Don Saladino from New York Cityand Derek Hanson from Vancouver, Canada.
Get going, So, guys up, We've got a special guest on a
day, doctor David Raven. He'sa neuroscientist, Board certified psychiatrist and health
(00:40):
tech entrepreneur. So, doctor David, thanks for being here. It's great
to be here with you. Reallyexcited. So how I got connected with
doctor David. This is actually thefirst time that we're that we're meeting,
But I got connected with a productcalled Apollo neuro and this was this was
a while ago, and Doctor Dave, I gotta be honest, like the
first thing out of my mind waslike, oh my, got another wearable.
(01:00):
Here we go. Right, it'sjust like only that everyone's wearing you
know, auras and Apple watches,and it just becomes addicting. But yes,
but I think this where this becamea bit different for me was it's
finally a wearable that's applying some typeof a solution. Right where Aura we
still have to take the data andutilize the data and establish that behavioral change
(01:23):
party monitors you know, we've beenwearing these forever. I would go as
far to say that ninety plus percentpeople who are wearing Harvey Mombers don't know
how to utilize the data or whatthey're actually using it for. They're they're
they're going into group training classes andthey're like my heart rates here, and
I'm like, well what does thatmean? They're like so apoM for me
became a bit different because here isyou know, it's pretty much looks like
(01:45):
a watch. It almost looks likea whoop in a way if you look
at it from a distance, andbut it vibrates. It's we're getting into
vibration therapy. And this why wewanted to bring you on is this is
really less of like a sales that. This isn't an ad here. This
is about something I've been using nowfor six straight weeks, and I'm I'm
shocked, Like I didn't expect.My rem sleep is ironically improved. My
(02:07):
HRV is at least i'll call itten points stop, I mean at least
ten points up. Regularly, I'mfalling asleep with this thing on every night,
I'm like passing out and then likenormally I typically use the bathroom once
and then I'm waking up. It'sit's off, I take it off.
But I'm really fascinated about this.So can we just start with like the
(02:30):
bare bones elementary school cliff notes versionof you know what this thing is for
our viewership? Yeah. Absolutely.So. Apollo is a new kind of
technology that was we discovered at inmy research at the University of Pittsburgh Medical
Center and the University of Pittsburgh Departmentof Psychiatry, where we were effectively trying
(02:55):
to develop technology that could what wecall non invasive, like without actually going
into the body, like being onthe surface of the body, could help
us naturally feel calm and restored ina way that's similar to what you get
the effect you get from doing anice meditation or yoga session or deep breathing
(03:16):
session and so or great workout right, and like there's this feeling that we
all know about, that we alltalk about that has a lot of positive
neurotransmitters and such involves in it thatwe can access naturally that feels good and
recovers and restores the body. Andso my work in the department, I
(03:38):
was working with a lot of veteransand a lot of folks who were struggling
with severe PTSD and traumatic brain injury, who were just having a real hard
time recovering, like over seventy percentof them were still sick with all the
best treatments that we had by thebook, and so that kind of led
me to explore other solutions that peoplewere using to help. Those were the
(04:00):
deep breathing, the meditation, theyoga, mindfulest practices, soothing touch,
service animals, soothing music, andthen things like psychedelic assisted therapy with MDMA,
and MDMA assisted therapy is now oneof the leading treatments for PTSD that
has ever been discovered. It's aboutto receive FDA clearance probably this year.
(04:25):
And it works. And so I'vebeen setting as I was trained in twenty
sixteen by MAPS. And the waywe think MBMA is working is that molecularly,
it's amplifying the safety neural pathways inour brains that help us to which
amplifies the safety of the therapeutic experiencewith the two therapists that are holding space
for you and giving you that treatment, and then helps you feel safe enough
(04:48):
to remake meaning around old trauma.Right, Like, think about how powerful
it is in just three sessions withforty two hours of psychotherapy, we're seeing
more people into mission and then staystable. Right, Like it's incredible.
I've nervous seen anything like it inthe history of psychiatry. And so as
I was getting trained in this andstudying these alternative techniques, I saw this
(05:12):
theme of safety emotional, mental,physical safety and what safety represents in the
body, in our bodies, whichis improved vagal tone, improved parasympathetic autonomic
balance. Right, that's how it'srecognized in the body as a signal and
what it does to us, andthat results in reduced heart rate and reduced
blood pressure and reduced breathing rate andmore feelings of calm and presence and peacefulness,
(05:35):
and more resources going to the reproductivesystem and the immune system and the
digestive system and creativity, empathy,etc. Right, all these parts that
we want to be functioning all thetime. And so we figured out that
the fastest way into that pathway isnaturally is soothing touch. And no one
has developed a technology that has everleveraged or the science of touch to change
(06:00):
the way we feel and to changethe way our autonomic nervous system is functioning,
and so we took this on asthe task, albeit an ambitious task,
at the University of Pittsburgh, andthen we discovered in fact that there
were very specific patterns of vibration thatcould be delivered to the body as low
frequency sound waves basically like wearable basethat at specific rhythms of this base that
(06:25):
are changing at a specific rate overtime, you can reliably nudge the body
back into a five to seven breastpermittent breathing pattern, which is what is
cardiorespiratory coherence, which is what isachieved when you enter a biofeedback or a
meditative state at first as your firstplace you go, and that's when your
heart rate starts to drop, andyour HRV starts to go up, and
(06:46):
your veagel tone starts to go up, and your heart and lungs are functioning
an optimum efficiency. And we foundthat you can do that for the first
time just at sending these specific soothingtouch sound waves to the body, and
the body likes it, and thenit trains the body to access those states
and more over time. Wowee,yeah, I was talking to Dave,
I was talking to Don about justI have background and electrical stimulation. So
(07:11):
I'm sort of, you know,in that zone of like figuring out what
are optimal frequencies for different applications.How did you guys come up? Was
it a trial and error? AndI know that I've been around vibrational plates
and for recovery and stuff like that. How did you come up with that
frequency in the the load or whatever, you know, volume of work that
(07:31):
it is needed to get this illicitthis response. That's a great question.
And we actually started with electricity becauseelectricity had we know more about electricity and
how electrical frequencies affect the body thanany other stimulation because we've been doing it
since like Fara Day right like backin the eighteen eighties or whatever. It's
been going on for a while,so we so we now we know so
(07:58):
much about how those frequencies change thebody, and so we started there and
that's actually what we were going todo with the product when we started to
get good results. But we thanksto my wife Catherine, she came in.
She was the business brains and financialbrains of who was just giving us
free advice at the time, andshe came into the lab and we told
(08:18):
her what we're going to do,and that we wanted to sell a consumer
product that stimulated people electrically to makethem feel good. And she's like,
I think, I don't think peopleare going to buy that as to her
product. If they're being shocked,I don't think you're gonna be able to
get master therapy. Yeah, Andwe didn't believe her, and she had
us do like a foreur hunder personmarket research today, and she was in
fact completely right, and so itforced us to explore other modalities. And
(08:43):
as we started to look into vibrationand more like tactile experiences, we found
a lot of research that had alreadybeen done on the effects of vibration on
the body and basically showing that specifickinds of vibration increased sympathetic tone reliably,
and other kinds of vibration increased parasympatheticvagel tone reliably. And so that was
(09:05):
basically our framework and we started thereand then we ran two double blind,
randomized, placebo controlled crossover studies inthe university lab and then that showed us,
you know, when people had noidea what vibrations they were getting and
no idea what they were supposed todo, and they were forced to do
all these different tasks, all wiredup with EEG and EKG and respiratory monitors
(09:26):
and pupil monitors and all of thethings right in tandem. Time synced.
We could see exactly what the vibrationswere doing to the body, how they
were impacting cognitive and physical performance andrecovery, and what vibrations were pleasing to
people importantly, and which ones weren'tright because when we saw there was a
spectrum, there were certain ones thatwere effective for energy, but they didn't
(09:50):
feel pleasing, you know, ingeneral, as they were subjectively reported.
So we eliminate all of that stuffand focus on the stuff that's energizing but
feels good. Right it was,And then that kind of led into figuring
it out exactly how to compose therhythms, and then they iterate all the
time. I have a quick question, if don if, if you can
(10:13):
find the frequency in the rhythms thatrelax people, is there a product that
could increase sympathetic tone and get peopleready for like performance? But this was
oh, it does okay, Soif I if I'm warming up for a
sporting event, I could use thesame thing. Yes, there, I
mean Basically what I wanted to wantedto ask, is I'm using right now?
(10:35):
No, no, no, no, but this is this is fantastic.
I mean so typically I think youhave about seven different functions, right,
social, calm, energy, sleep, recovery, of these different functions
you could choose, and yeah,I mean I'm mainly right now. I'll
be honest, like one hundred percentof the time, I'm using this to
like unwind, recover sleep, I'musing those functions. Now. I'm really
(11:00):
intrigued because I can't tell you howmuch how many products I get thrown on
my desk, like a week,Like it's it's crazy. It is half
the time you want to put youknow, you want to look into it
and then you roll your eyes likethis is what I just don't have patience
for it, and then lad,you end up getting to it months later
on. But it's becoming addicting.Like it's down to a system with me
now, like I wear an AppleWatch. I'll be honest with you,
(11:22):
I use like I checked the hightide for my boat, I adjust music,
texts come in. I have myphone up at my desk, I
look at it. I'm I'm usingit when I play hockey. I like
it because it's measuring I think apretty accurate slower steady state or moderate intensity.
Obviously, I won't use this forhigh intense innibrals. But when this
comes off at about six o'clock andI'm getting in the shower, this comes
(11:46):
off, I shower and my apollogoes on, and lately I'm feeling like
and I never like to say moreis better, but the more I'm wearing
it, the better my aura andthe better I am feeling the next day.
So now I'm starting to say tomyself, like, holy shit,
Like it recommends you to wear whatthree hours? I might be getting this
wrong. I apologize three hours.At least three Yeah, at least three
(12:07):
hours a day, at least fivedays a week. That's when we see
people getting the most best results.But it seems like those continue to improve
up to like six seven, eighthours a day. You continue to get
added benefit for every out. Everyminute of use gives you a small amount
of more deep, more rimslay.Why not wear this an hour before training?
You know? Why not? Like? Is this suddenly like improved my
(12:28):
alertness or my or my brain functionor my mental capacity or my reaction time,
like is this going to do that? Now? You're getting into Like
I look at it from a consumerstample. You have all these great options,
and you're like, you know,where do I? Where do I?
Where do I start? Like?How do you recommend someone to start
breaking into this? And what areyou like you just recommended three hours and
fifteen minutes five days a week.Can you can you break down some basic
(12:52):
recommendations and what someone should be noticing? Yeah, and I think it's We've
made it really easy to do now. So if you go into the schedule
of your app, you can literallyjust click your daily vibes and answer like
six or seven questions. Will figureout what your chronotype is, which is
what your ideals sleep and wake andenergy rhythms are, which is an evidence
(13:15):
based way to understand when you aremost able to focus and perform at a
high level, and based on yourchronotype, based on when your sleep and
wake cycles naturally align and when youare tend to be getting the best deep
sleep, and then based on whenyou absolutely need to be out of bed
and when you want to be inbed asleep every night or most nights,
(13:37):
we provide a customized schedule to youand then that schedule. That schedule basically
runs throughout the whole day and night, and so you don't have to do
anything. And we have a lotof professional athletes that use it this way
because they have very strict routines aroundwe know we're going to work out at
this time every day, and weknow we're going to need to recover at
(14:00):
this time every day, and sothey'll have these very specific workout routines.
Well, they'll they'll wake up withtheir apollo, they'll you know, have
it turned on like you said,for half an hour to an hour to
get them into flow before they workout or perform or train or or you
know, have to go and doan event, and then they'll have it
turn on recovery afterwards. And thenthat you know, restores them and helps
(14:24):
them wind down faster so that theycan actually get the rest they need so
they can do it again on repeatthe next day. Right, and what
about from a battery life standpoint,I mean, it's something that you got
to pretty much stay on though,I've noticed, right, I think you
know, in general, if youuse the assigned scheduling features that give you
the customized schedule, or you haveSmart Vibes, which is the AI subscription
(14:46):
we released where it adapts in realtime to you based on your our data
and your sleep data and turns onto keep you asleep at night, which
is really a cool feature it.The battery life will last you know,
one to three days, depending onyour intensity that you're using it at.
I think one of the biggest mistakesin an apollo is that people think that
(15:07):
more is more and you want tojack it up all the way, and
we see people actually getting better effectsat lower intensities where they just barely notice
it. It's noticeable, but it'snot distracting in any way. It's not
supposed to be the focus of yourattention. It's supposed to help us be
more present with whatever it is we'redoing. So that also conserves battery life
(15:28):
a lot. So yeah, Imean, you charge everyone three days depending
on how much you use it.But if you just plug it in when
you're showering like you know, likewe do, and or when you're doing
your nighttime routine, you know,you just plug it in and give it
like fifteen thirty minutes, the chargesup pretty quick. Interesting. Yeah,
No, I think that's probably mymistake was in the beginning, I was
starting at a lower percentage, andin time I felt like I was adapting
(15:52):
to it more. So I startedcranking it up. And then I'll just
put it on. I'll and I'llrun it, like I'll just go and
find a function and I'll at thatfunction, whatever it is. Like I
wore it on the plane the otherday and I thought phenomenal, Like I
felt like my sleep that night wasbetter. I almost felt like I was
calmer on the plane through turbulence.I just felt, for some reason,
(16:14):
a little bit more ideas. Andso that's that's that's interesting. What would
you from a percentage standpoint, youwould just recommend someone to turn it up
to the point where they're just noticing, but it's not over you know,
taking over all their their their focus. Yeah. I think about it like
music, right, Like if youwere going to have an ambient soundtrack playing
around you everywhere you went in yourlife, how loud would you want that
(16:36):
to be? Right? You wouldn'twant it to be so loud that it's
sorts to interfere with your ability tothink or you know, have conversations,
right or anything like that. Youwouldn't want it to be so loud that
it causes restlessness or discomforting your body. You'd want it to be kind of
like a gentle and low and inthe background. You know, what we
call in music is accompaniment, right, So it's kind of there. It's
there when you pay attention to it, you know it's there, but it's
(16:57):
not shocking your attention. The realbenefit of the intensity is for times the
intensity control on the device and doingit with the buttons, is that you
can use it on a plane andturn it way up because the plane has
so much ambient vibration that you won'teven feel it at the normal intensities you're
using it at home. So whenwe you know, we have you know,
(17:19):
elite military folks using this whore inlike helicopters and planes and tanks and
things like that all the time anddoing crazy stuff, and elite athletes who
were in like really noisy environments andgiant, crowded stadiums, right, and
they need to turn it up inthose settings because there's a lot more stimulation
going on. And just like whenyou're listening to music, you have to
(17:40):
turn the volume up when you're inan allowed place to hear it right,
and so it's no different with touch. It's just music composed for your body,
and the benefits are similar to music, Like if you look at there
hasn't been that many studies at musicand the therapeutic effects, unfortunately, but
if you look at the way thatmusic, you know, changes heart rate
(18:00):
and heart rhythm by increasing or changingthe tone and the frequency and all that,
it's very similar. And what we'reseeing with Apollo is you can wear
it continuously across time and there's cumulativebenefits. So we did a sleep study,
one of the world's largest sleep studiesthat actually came out of COVID,
where we you know, surveyed areausers and just collected their data when they
(18:22):
volunteer to share with us for threeyears, over thirteen hundred people, and
we've seen that using it, there'sall a near linear relationship between how many
minutes you use Apollo at night morethan during the day. But the day
is still important because helping regulate ourstress during the day will help us sleep
better at night and regulating our energy, especially if it results in taking in
(18:45):
less substances that could mess up oursleep. And so we're seeing people you
know, over the course of threemonths of using this the way we're talking
about, have like four percent decreasein resting heart rate, eleven percent cumulative
increases in HRV, and you know, nineteen percent increases in deep sleep,
(19:06):
fourteen percent increases in REM, andthirty minutes more sleep at night just by
using it on this consistent schedule.I I've never been able to get according
to or on my REM is alwaysthe one area that's just below I like
to say, it's never in theblue. It's always kind of like like
in the red, but right likejust below the average. And I want
(19:29):
to say, since I've been wearingthe Apollo, I want to say ninety
percent of the time, I'm probablyabove it now, which I think is
just fascinating. Yeah, that's amazing, and and I think that's that's what
we see in most of the peoplewho use it for sleep, is because
they're you know, if you're calmenough, safe enough, and soone enough
to allow ourselves to go to goto bed and get that deep, restorative,
(19:51):
you know, sleep, then weare We're going to get more of
it when we're safer because our allowingthe natural process of sleep take effect.
I think one of the biggest challengeswe have in working with patients with insomnia
is that there's something that's that they'velearned that is a cognition or or a
(20:15):
misunderstanding that there's something wrong with themthat they can't sleep. Right, and
all of us, I don't knowhow single human being present had that thought
sometimes in their lives. Right,I have certainly had that thought. But
we all evolved to sleep. Weall evolve to spend if you look evolutionarily
at all animals, like we evolveto sleep, and we've all to spend
(20:37):
like a third of our lives insleep, which is our most restorative place.
Right. That's a lot of timeand nothing is more therapeutic and healing
for us than sleep. So ifwe are not if we are not getting
that or able to get that,because we have a thought in our minds
like maybe there's something wrong with methat I can't sleep, then that's inducing
(21:02):
a fear response in the body thatgets misinterpreted like a survival threat. It
because our bodies don't know the differencelike threat is threat to the body to
the reptilian brain, it's our higherorder brain that has to remind ourselves,
hey, actually you know, Iget that thought, but if I actually
look at the research, you know, ninety nine point nine to nine percent
(21:22):
of people don't have an issue geneticallywith their sleep. There's only like one
family in the world that I've seenevidence of. That's a real thing called
fatal familial in Samia, where thesepeople having a genetic preon disease that kicks
off at like somewhere between forty fiveand fifty five and they just lose the
ability to sleep. Everyone else hasretained the ability to sleep. We just
(21:45):
think we can't, And thinking wecan't means there must be something wrong with
me that I can't sleep. That'sthe assumption that we make when we have
that thought, even if we don'tacknowledge it. And when we start to
have those thoughts, it engenders astate of fear in the body because there's
something wrong with me, because Ican't sleep and everybody else can. Well,
it turns out we all have thesethoughts and nobody can sleep, so
(22:06):
nobody's alone. And that restoring thatsafety thinking in the body, just grounding
us in our bodies with something simplelike apollo, is why these techniques are
so effective, Why somatic techniques breathingtechniques CBT, they're all part of the
same formula. The question I have, and this all sounds really positive,
(22:27):
what are the downsides? What ifI overuse it? What if I feel
like I can't live without it?What do you say to those people?
Because there's going to be people comingout saying like, wait, wait,
wait, we're relying on this whenwe should be able to regulate these things
ourselves. Do you do you getthose kind of questions, Yeah, all
the time. You know, I'man addiction psychiatrist, so this is my
(22:51):
bread and butter. But I think, you know, it's important to consider
the number one. I think thefirst thing to talk about is we've done
this research because we've tracked people acrosstime, We've tracked people across years of
using this since we launched, andthousands of people and we see and we
see all of their usage patterns,and people don't become tolerant to it like
(23:17):
they would an artificial drug or somethingyou're taking from the outside. They become
sensitive to it over time, whichis really interesting. So that's similar to
the effect that happens with deep breathingor with cognitive behavioral therapy. With exposure
technique exposure training, where you exposesomebody to something that's threatening them or like
the idea of a spider. Ifthey have like a rachnophobia, right,
(23:41):
they can put a picture of aspider up, their heart rate goes up,
and then the therapist is there toremind them that they're safe enough to
be able to be in the presenceof the picture of the spider, right,
and then it reconditions their nervous systemby reminding it that it can be
safe in a situation that used tobe threatening, and then those safety states
become easier to access in other situationsthat trigger that same response because they're training
(24:03):
it over time to practice, andthat's an CBT. Exposure is like one
of the leading treatments for PTSD,but it's an incredible amount of work and
requires therapists to be with you allthe time, and that's not just not
accessible to most people and doesn't workfor most people because it's an incredible amount
of work. So we were thinkingabout ways to tap into the same learning
(24:23):
pathway that trains the body to feelsafe in situations that were stressed, that
were previously interpreted as stressful or threatening, and to condition the body to be
able to access those states on itsown. That's how deep breathing has its
effect in meditation. After you're donewith it, there's a feel good phase
afterwards. Right, that feel goodphase our body learning to carry on the
(24:48):
feel good feelings of that experience,right, And that's trainable, and that's
what er Kendall want. The NobelPrize four in two thousand was discovering how
our memory works and how we cantrain in different ways by safety and fear
conditioning. So ultimately, if youtap into that, you turn what happens
with drugs, many drugs that aresedative and hypnotic and have other issues that
(25:11):
are addictive. You take that addictiveeffect with a drug and then you translate
that through memory memory neuroscience into alearning tool that conditions sensitization and self awareness
training. So people actually get morebetter over time, whether they're wearing the
(25:32):
device or not. If they wearthe device, they feel oftentimes better if
they haven't mastered started to master theself awareness skills that the device that the
wearable is actually subtly teaching them theirbodies. Right, But over time people
actually use the device less, theystill use it and they use it very
intentionally for specific things like the pregameand the recovery afterwards in the sleep,
(25:56):
but they're not using it like sixeight hours a day. They're using it
like very intentionally, like one totwo maybe three hours a day, oh,
you know, in the six monthstwelve month year groups. But sometimes
people start using it, especially ifyou have an illness that it's really helping
with. You know, I hada woman who wrote the other day that
says she uses it for like sixto eight hours a day because it treats
(26:18):
her chronic pain and so she cansleep, and she hasn't had anything that's
helped her. It's the only thingthat's helped her. And so people like
that use it all day every day, And you know, is there anything
wrong with it doesn't really have sideeffects, So what are the alternatives that
it is replacing for that person.It's replacing opioid pain killers, it's replacing
(26:41):
steroid injections, it's replacing surgical procedures. It's replacing all the things that person
would have to take that are actuallyreally harmful that a lot of my patients
were taking. This is replacing alot of those things for people, And
so people are actually using less drugsbecause they're using more apollo. And for
(27:02):
us, especially in the addiction world, you know, nothing could be more
promising than that. So it's likea neuroplasticity training device essentially. Yeah,
no, interesting, because neuroplasticity islearning and learning requires safety. If you're
in a fear state, everything condenses, right, you go into tunnel vision
mode. All of the resources toyour learning that is not involving survival shut
(27:22):
down, right. So to yourpoint, yeah, you summed it up.
It accelerates learning by reminding our bodieshow to be safe enough to learn
and be in that lureroplastic learning state. I've never thought of it that way.
So in a way, this iskind of rewiring, or this can
rewire your brain or I even thinkabout injury, Like when we had clients
(27:45):
come in and they're going through physicaltherapy and then at a certain point it's
like, all right, you knowwhat, we've exhausted everything. That's time
for surgery and they're always feeling painand they've been feeling that pain for years
after the surgery. We've seen that. You know, sometimes the pain's still
there for a while because those triggersare you know, it's still there.
They're they're they're almost expecting it.They're trained to feel that pain, so
(28:07):
those those signals are never turning off. And it's I foind that's very difficult,
right, because most people aren't gonnaknow what we know, and they're
not gonna say, like, no, we have to start rewiring our thinking
a bit. This is almost atool to start rewiring the way that you've
been trained to think. Yeah.Absolutely, and and it does so in
a really simple way, which isreally important because you know, it's we
(28:30):
often over complicate this. But like, the more you do anything, the
better you get at it. Right, So if you're in it, this
is what Eric, this is likethe sub the one line summary when summary
one liner of Eric Handell's Nobel Prizewinning work right from two thousand. The
more you do anything, the betterwe get at it. Practice makes mastery.
Right. That could be doing somethingthat doesn't help us, it doesn't
(28:52):
serve us, like thinking about whata useless piece of shit person we are,
or it could be something like youknow, practicing being grateful or practicing
lifting muscles, lifting weights to thegym. Right, Like anything that we
do, anything gets wired. Sowhen we are experiencing pain in association with
different experiences in our lives over anextended period of time, and there's a
(29:17):
part of us that thinks, hey, what if this pain never goes away?
Right now? You and then rightand and then you don't. Instead
of instead of sliding that you know, slight gently sliding that acknowledging that thought
and sliding it aside, right andmoving on to the next thing, you
decide to focus on that thought rightnow. You're in my experience that started
(29:41):
interrupt But I experienced last year.I had I'm very open about it.
I had my first anxiety attack dueto a medication that I got on and
had a bad reaction to it.So I had it one night, I
had it in another night, andthen I put you and two together on
the medication. Then I got offof it, and that following night I
had a fear going to I wasactually like, holy shit, am I
(30:02):
going to go through this again?And then I I and I developed a
new respect, like because unless yougo through it, you never really understand
what it's like and how scary itis, and you're like, oh my
god. Like the ability to notbe able to sleep, sitting up all
night like for me, is it'sfrightening, like when you know you have
the next day you have to function. It is horrible. It's really it's
(30:22):
really unpleasant. I mean, uh, who was I was reading some stuff
by is it Norman Deutge and hewas talking about neuroplasticity gone wrong and how
chronic pain is essentially that it's youcan create positive neuroplasticity and negative and then
even the stuff with the opiates wherepeople are creating new pathways to you know,
(30:42):
still feel pain and so they haveto take more opiates and more and
more, and so this is kindof the opposite, it sounds like,
and is it. It's not amedical device as it is now right,
it's a consumer wearable because we wantit to be accessible to everyone. But
because our clinical trials that we we'vehad so much incredible promising results from our
(31:02):
clinical trials. We've had seven trialscompleted to date, six of which will
be published this year, we aretaking it through the FDA pathway so that
eventually it can get reimbursement and youknow, be more accessible to people.
But this is not like any typeof vibration therapy here, right, Like
there's science behind the the I mean, what would you call them smart waves?
(31:23):
Like there's different smart waves that youwould choose options. Yeah, the
vibes, the vibes, it's likeit's a because a vibe is like an
experience. It's a tone of howyou're feeling in a setting, right,
it's a whole thing. And sothat that vibe starts with us. And
so when we walk into a experience, like we bring in whatever baggage we're
(31:48):
carrying, and so it affects thetone of the experience so effectively. You
know, I'll speak for myself,but I know most of my friends would
feel the same way. We neverlearned, especially as young men, Like
we never nobody ever told us prioritizelearning emotion control, right, or emotional
awareness or emotional regulation. Right.That was like never a thing that was
(32:13):
really like taught. Like I knewthere were certain ways you're supposed to act
in certain ways you're not supposed toact, but like in general, prioritizing
like paying attention and training emotional intelligenceand emotional awareness is not even a thing
that I knew about. It wasn'ta field that I knew existed, you
know. And so Apollo is reallya way to you know, now that
(32:35):
neuroscience has shown this stuff does exist, and it's actually really important that we
should all be learning EQ and emotionaltraining techniques and attention and mindfulness techniques,
and we should be learning it assoon as possible for our own mental health
and well being, like as soonas possible, because the sooner you learn
them, the sooner you can justdo it all the time, like passively.
Wherever you're going, you can bemeditating or being mindful, and that
(32:58):
can improve your body health and recoveryon the go. It just requires practice.
And so from studying like Eastern monksand meditators and their techniques, and
then all the way through what wedo with Western science that contributed so much
to the way we wanted to createapollow to help people like basically nudge us
back into the desirable state physiologically inour bodies, which then helps our minds
(33:23):
center in that desirable physiological state,and then you have a target for what
that state people are telling you you'resupposed to get to feels like right.
So it's like I think a lotof people are like, how am I
supposed to know how to meditate?If I don't even know what's supposed to
feel like when I meditate, right, how am I supposed to know what
(33:44):
I'm aiming for with these different breathingpractices, like where is the target?
It's like shooting in the dark.And so what we try to what we're
trying to do with Apollo is givetarget the body first, right, not
the brain first. Hit the bodyfirst, Give the body the feeling.
People can tap into that feeling andbe present with it, and then they
can understand what they're aiming for whenthey're trying to get there on their own,
(34:07):
and then that kind of reinforces thatpositive training. So it's like you're
ideally you're just continuing on with thatwhen you're not when it's not on.
So so you're kind of going throughthe peripheral nervous system to train the central
nervous system exacting. And now Iknow Don is probably think of this too.
Is this is obviously proprietary and patented. Have you looked at licensing it
(34:29):
to Apple so that they can throwit into their watch? We were like,
we're like, here, it's Ilove you. So we are talk
we are talking to Apple. Wehave we have uh our CTO is former
Apple uh and help build some ofthe core iOS operating system and the app
store, and so he had youknow, we've been in touch with Apple,
(34:52):
and we just released a new,very very special preview for your iPhone.
So if you haven't iPhone, youcan download the Apollo app and you
can open it and your iPhone willbe upgraded for free too. When you
hit feel, Apollo to deliver Apollospatented vibes to you through your phone,
(35:13):
and they can, yeah, andthey can induce like a twenty the feeling
of being in like a twenty minutemeditation with if you hold it to your
chest within just two minutes and itcontinues afterwards, and you can you know,
it's it's just a demo, right, It's just a way for people
to understand that you can get thisexperience out of your phone. And it's
(35:35):
really really different than any other vibrationyou've ever felt come out of this box,
right, Like, this is adifferent kind of experience and it can
fairly rapidly calm you down and alsoyou know, do other things, but
you need the wearable for that.So meditation. I find meditation is very
difficult, right, Like I've beendoing it for years. Oh there are
(35:55):
some people that I think there's there'sschedule and they're just their overall mindset.
Maybe it plays a little bit strongerto them. Like my like my day
is, I'm a New Yorker BNlike I am, you know, I
I I sleep hard, I workhard. I I the second I'm up.
(36:15):
There's not a period of time wherepeople like walk outside beerfoot and like
collect the Earth's energy and the andthe and the rays and like there's just
it's just the way that I live. And I find sometimes because my day
is bang bang bang, that evenlaying on the floor for fifteen twenty minutes
and trying to focus when life ishappening, work is happening is it's very
(36:38):
it's very difficult. I think.What I'm really what I'm really enjoying about
this is it's almost like it's multitaskingin a way. I'm not telling you
that I'm I'm putting on getting readyfor sleep and going for a run,
Like I'm not doing that, butlike i might be sitting down watching TV
with my kids and I'll just feelthese like this like life vibration on my
(36:59):
lit wrist and for some reason itbrings me to this point where I'm like
relax, like let it go,Like it's kind of like this trigger.
That's how simple it is. Soin a way, what I love about
it is it's not taking away anyadditional time for my day. It's just
adding value and it's not something thatI have to put on where now I'm
like, well, I have touse Like I love Aora, like I
(37:20):
utilize the data. I've been workingwith them for probably five six years already,
and over time you learned about it. But I also put a Ura
on a friend of mine who sleptperfectly, and I'm like, how'd you
sleep? And he's like terrible.It's like I was because he was like,
I'm like, how do you sleep? He's like perfect? But I
want to try or I'm like,what do you mean perfect? Because don
my head hits the pillow at eighto'clock and I'm literally waking up at like
(37:44):
five point thirty in the morning onmy own. I feel rested, I
feel energy. You don't wake upto use the bathroom. He's like no,
I'm like jealous, this is amazing. And then we put it on
him and I love Aora, buthe's like, no, mentally. It
put me into a different state wherenow I'm worried about the data and now
I'm starting like some conciously I'm thinkingabout it. I gave it a few
days. It's not for me.This is the only case that I've ever
(38:04):
heard. But also people buy itand they're like, well, now what
do I do? This should justput it on, And it kind of
does. Whether you're measuring the dataor not. It is putting you into
a better place to be able todo what I think is one of the
most important things, and that's recovery, rest sleep. Yeah. Absolutely,
and I'm so glad to hear thatyou've had such a good experience with it.
(38:25):
It just incredible. It's an incredibleyou know, it's not a good
incredible. And I've been around productfor twenty five years, and I got
to be honest. Most of thetime i'm taking something and I'm using I'm
like, oh this is interesting,But it doesn't become habit. For something
to become habit in my life,that becomes routine. It's got a one
(38:49):
work like I want it to be, not like, oh this kind of
works, like I need to seea significant difference. But you got to
be you know, easy, LikeI don't want to I don't want to
be sitting there wrapping myself up tofifteen sensors and laying in the dark.
And then suddenly it's like, oh, we've got a false reading. Let's
do it again. Like I've donethings like that with products that are fantastic,
but I'm like, wow, it'sjust this is not going to be
(39:12):
user friendly the general public. Thisis you put on a watch, you
put your setting on, or youhave your smart vibe settings and let it
do its work. Yeah, theputter. And I think to your point,
like, you made a really importantpoint, which is that a lot
of products are designed without taking intoconsideration style, our individual style, and
(39:35):
our time, right. And Ithink that was something because we are personally
so so busy and we use alot to help us with productivity that we
were like, we need to bea product that's compassionate and understanding of these
challenges that our customers will have thatwe also have because we're all human first,
right, and a lot of usshare these similar challenges. So that
(39:57):
was part a big part of motivatingwhy we made Apollo number one. It'll
be worn anywhere on your body anywhereon your person. Apollo works because it
works through your sense of touch.It works better on places that have dense
bone, like you know, yourarm, or your wrist or your ankle.
Ankle's probably the old time favorite spot, but chest is catching up real
quick. A lot of women arewearing it on their bras or on a
(40:20):
bros. Strap on the collarbone andclip belt, clip it. You can
anywhere. You can attach it andfiel the vibrations. You can wear it,
and it doesn't need to be onyour skin. It can be overclothing.
So all of these, you know, make it easy for people to
wear it versatively. And then secondly, we made it not require really any
effort after you set it up,Like if you wanted to get Apollo going
(40:43):
for you, from set up toto actually having it run. You know,
you don't even need to check itevery day. All you need to
do is set it up in fiveminutes and then you set up a do
you do this chronotype survey schedule.We assign you a custom schedule for your
day. That schedule get saved toyour wearable, and then your wearable turns
on automatically throughout the day and nightfor you without any communication required with your
(41:07):
phone, and you can use thebuttons to control it and turn it back
on or off or up or downor whatever you want. And it could
be separated from your phone as oftenas you want. As long as you
keep it charged, that schedule willrun for your whole week. So we
really wanted to make it just passive. Right, If you have to take
time out every time you want touse this thing, then you know,
it's kind of defeating the purpose becausewe're trying to give you more time back.
(41:30):
Right, that's the best commodity,the supportant commodity we have as humans.
You know, that's the toughest thingwith a lot of these wearables,
Derek is. I think they becomea bit stressful. They start overtaking people's
minds or their lives, and youknow, people start, you know whatever,
the fitness tracking wearables you're talking about, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(41:52):
yeah, yeah, the fitness trackingwearables, and they're like there's just there's
certain basics that we have to alwayspay attention to, right, Like the
like Apollo's great, but like youstill got to focus on getting asleep,
You still got to focus on goodnutrition. You still need to focus on
movement right, however you want topackage that. Doctor David can't thank you
enough for coming on this is thisis incredible. Maybe we have you on
(42:13):
another day data to discuss some ofthe other topics that you were bringing up.
I know you're just just a baaldknowledge here, but can you let
everyone know if they're interested in learningmore about you, learning more about Apollo,
where can they go to find AndI know, obviously guys, you
can go to dotsle you know,dot com. I'm I'm a big I
am now a big advocate of ayou know, of Apollo, and anyone
who has questions feel free to DMme. But doctor David, can you
(42:35):
give us some info on that?Yeah? Absolutely, And firsts, thank
you so much for having me.It's been a really fun conversation and I'm
so glad that you're having such agreat experience using the product and I've been
having the same one and it's definitelyhelped my life quite a bit being a
physician and stressful startup life co founder. And if anybody wants to find me,
(42:58):
I always love to hear from people. You can find me at doctor
Dave dot io, which is myclinic website, my personal website, and
you can also find me at orfind the product at apolloneuro dot com.
It's a p O L l On e U r O dot com.
Or you can go to Wearable Hugsdot com, which is what the kids
(43:19):
call it. And I'm on socials. I love to hear from you at
doctor David Rabin on Instagram and Twitter, and I have two new shows on
Spotify and Apple that I think allof your audience would probably be kind of
into, which is about the scienceof consciousness and psychedelics. One of them
(43:39):
is called Your Brain Explained, whichis the general consciousness show about how the
brain works, and that's quarterly show. And then the other one is called
The Psychedelic Report, which is yourbiweekly psychedelic news featuring experts in the field
and talking about the latest research that'sgoing on. Well, you just got
a new all out of me,so I'm on, yeah, I tried
(44:01):
the app. Just what we're talking. Very cool, very cool introduction.
Honestly, did did Kate get youan Apollo yet? Derek? No,
no, no, no, I'mgonna I get one. I'm gonna stick
it all over my body. Andthis is incredible. I'm gonna message Kate
now, Doctor Dave, thank thanksagain. There's anything you need out of
us, let us know. ButI know our community is gonna absolutely love
(44:23):
this. My challenge with community isgonna love it. I'm slowly breaking them
into it now. I've got agood community of of thousands, and maybe
at some point we could bring someoneon to kind of answer questions or just
kind of you know, I neverlike to push that. Yeah, awesome,
appreciate it. Yeah, we'll publishit early next week and we'll send
you the links. Okay, sothat's good. Thanks doctor Dave, thank
(44:45):
you very much. Bye bye up
Welcome to the D and D FitnessRadio podcast, brought to you by your
hosts Don Saladino from New York Cityand Derek Hanson from Vancouver, Canada.
Get going, So, guys up, We've got a special guest on a
day, doctor David Raven. He'sa neuroscientist, Board certified psychiatrist and health
(00:40):
tech entrepreneur. So, doctor David, thanks for being here. It's great
to be here with you. Reallyexcited. So how I got connected with
doctor David. This is actually thefirst time that we're that we're meeting,
But I got connected with a productcalled Apollo neuro and this was this was
a while ago, and Doctor Dave, I gotta be honest, like the
first thing out of my mind waslike, oh my, got another wearable.
(01:00):
Here we go. Right, it'sjust like only that everyone's wearing you
know, auras and Apple watches,and it just becomes addicting. But yes,
but I think this where this becamea bit different for me was it's
finally a wearable that's applying some typeof a solution. Right where Aura we
still have to take the data andutilize the data and establish that behavioral change
(01:23):
party monitors you know, we've beenwearing these forever. I would go as
far to say that ninety plus percentpeople who are wearing Harvey Mombers don't know
how to utilize the data or whatthey're actually using it for. They're they're
they're going into group training classes andthey're like my heart rates here, and
I'm like, well what does thatmean? They're like so apoM for me
became a bit different because here isyou know, it's pretty much looks like
(01:45):
a watch. It almost looks likea whoop in a way if you look
at it from a distance, andbut it vibrates. It's we're getting into
vibration therapy. And this why wewanted to bring you on is this is
really less of like a sales that. This isn't an ad here. This
is about something I've been using nowfor six straight weeks, and I'm I'm
shocked, Like I didn't expect.My rem sleep is ironically improved. My
(02:07):
HRV is at least i'll call itten points stop, I mean at least
ten points up. Regularly, I'mfalling asleep with this thing on every night,
I'm like passing out and then likenormally I typically use the bathroom once
and then I'm waking up. It'sit's off, I take it off.
But I'm really fascinated about this.So can we just start with like the
(02:30):
bare bones elementary school cliff notes versionof you know what this thing is for
our viewership? Yeah. Absolutely.So. Apollo is a new kind of
technology that was we discovered at inmy research at the University of Pittsburgh Medical
Center and the University of Pittsburgh Departmentof Psychiatry, where we were effectively trying
(02:55):
to develop technology that could what wecall non invasive, like without actually going
into the body, like being onthe surface of the body, could help
us naturally feel calm and restored ina way that's similar to what you get
the effect you get from doing anice meditation or yoga session or deep breathing
(03:16):
session and so or great workout right, and like there's this feeling that we
all know about, that we alltalk about that has a lot of positive
neurotransmitters and such involves in it thatwe can access naturally that feels good and
recovers and restores the body. Andso my work in the department, I
(03:38):
was working with a lot of veteransand a lot of folks who were struggling
with severe PTSD and traumatic brain injury, who were just having a real hard
time recovering, like over seventy percentof them were still sick with all the
best treatments that we had by thebook, and so that kind of led
me to explore other solutions that peoplewere using to help. Those were the
(04:00):
deep breathing, the meditation, theyoga, mindfulest practices, soothing touch,
service animals, soothing music, andthen things like psychedelic assisted therapy with MDMA,
and MDMA assisted therapy is now oneof the leading treatments for PTSD that
has ever been discovered. It's aboutto receive FDA clearance probably this year.
(04:25):
And it works. And so I'vebeen setting as I was trained in twenty
sixteen by MAPS. And the waywe think MBMA is working is that molecularly,
it's amplifying the safety neural pathways inour brains that help us to which
amplifies the safety of the therapeutic experiencewith the two therapists that are holding space
for you and giving you that treatment, and then helps you feel safe enough
(04:48):
to remake meaning around old trauma.Right, Like, think about how powerful
it is in just three sessions withforty two hours of psychotherapy, we're seeing
more people into mission and then staystable. Right, Like it's incredible.
I've nervous seen anything like it inthe history of psychiatry. And so as
I was getting trained in this andstudying these alternative techniques, I saw this
(05:12):
theme of safety emotional, mental,physical safety and what safety represents in the
body, in our bodies, whichis improved vagal tone, improved parasympathetic autonomic
balance. Right, that's how it'srecognized in the body as a signal and
what it does to us, andthat results in reduced heart rate and reduced
blood pressure and reduced breathing rate andmore feelings of calm and presence and peacefulness,
(05:35):
and more resources going to the reproductivesystem and the immune system and the
digestive system and creativity, empathy,etc. Right, all these parts that
we want to be functioning all thetime. And so we figured out that
the fastest way into that pathway isnaturally is soothing touch. And no one
has developed a technology that has everleveraged or the science of touch to change
(06:00):
the way we feel and to changethe way our autonomic nervous system is functioning,
and so we took this on asthe task, albeit an ambitious task,
at the University of Pittsburgh, andthen we discovered in fact that there
were very specific patterns of vibration thatcould be delivered to the body as low
frequency sound waves basically like wearable basethat at specific rhythms of this base that
(06:25):
are changing at a specific rate overtime, you can reliably nudge the body
back into a five to seven breastpermittent breathing pattern, which is what is
cardiorespiratory coherence, which is what isachieved when you enter a biofeedback or a
meditative state at first as your firstplace you go, and that's when your
heart rate starts to drop, andyour HRV starts to go up, and
(06:46):
your veagel tone starts to go up, and your heart and lungs are functioning
an optimum efficiency. And we foundthat you can do that for the first
time just at sending these specific soothingtouch sound waves to the body, and
the body likes it, and thenit trains the body to access those states
and more over time. Wowee,yeah, I was talking to Dave,
I was talking to Don about justI have background and electrical stimulation. So
(07:11):
I'm sort of, you know,in that zone of like figuring out what
are optimal frequencies for different applications.How did you guys come up? Was
it a trial and error? AndI know that I've been around vibrational plates
and for recovery and stuff like that. How did you come up with that
frequency in the the load or whatever, you know, volume of work that
(07:31):
it is needed to get this illicitthis response. That's a great question.
And we actually started with electricity becauseelectricity had we know more about electricity and
how electrical frequencies affect the body thanany other stimulation because we've been doing it
since like Fara Day right like backin the eighteen eighties or whatever. It's
been going on for a while,so we so we now we know so
(07:58):
much about how those frequencies change thebody, and so we started there and
that's actually what we were going todo with the product when we started to
get good results. But we thanksto my wife Catherine, she came in.
She was the business brains and financialbrains of who was just giving us
free advice at the time, andshe came into the lab and we told
(08:18):
her what we're going to do,and that we wanted to sell a consumer
product that stimulated people electrically to makethem feel good. And she's like,
I think, I don't think peopleare going to buy that as to her
product. If they're being shocked,I don't think you're gonna be able to
get master therapy. Yeah, Andwe didn't believe her, and she had
us do like a foreur hunder personmarket research today, and she was in
fact completely right, and so itforced us to explore other modalities. And
(08:43):
as we started to look into vibrationand more like tactile experiences, we found
a lot of research that had alreadybeen done on the effects of vibration on
the body and basically showing that specifickinds of vibration increased sympathetic tone reliably,
and other kinds of vibration increased parasympatheticvagel tone reliably. And so that was
(09:05):
basically our framework and we started thereand then we ran two double blind,
randomized, placebo controlled crossover studies inthe university lab and then that showed us,
you know, when people had noidea what vibrations they were getting and
no idea what they were supposed todo, and they were forced to do
all these different tasks, all wiredup with EEG and EKG and respiratory monitors
(09:26):
and pupil monitors and all of thethings right in tandem. Time synced.
We could see exactly what the vibrationswere doing to the body, how they
were impacting cognitive and physical performance andrecovery, and what vibrations were pleasing to
people importantly, and which ones weren'tright because when we saw there was a
spectrum, there were certain ones thatwere effective for energy, but they didn't
(09:50):
feel pleasing, you know, ingeneral, as they were subjectively reported.
So we eliminate all of that stuffand focus on the stuff that's energizing but
feels good. Right it was,And then that kind of led into figuring
it out exactly how to compose therhythms, and then they iterate all the
time. I have a quick question, if don if, if you can
(10:13):
find the frequency in the rhythms thatrelax people, is there a product that
could increase sympathetic tone and get peopleready for like performance? But this was
oh, it does okay, Soif I if I'm warming up for a
sporting event, I could use thesame thing. Yes, there, I
mean Basically what I wanted to wantedto ask, is I'm using right now?
(10:35):
No, no, no, no, but this is this is fantastic.
I mean so typically I think youhave about seven different functions, right,
social, calm, energy, sleep, recovery, of these different functions
you could choose, and yeah,I mean I'm mainly right now. I'll
be honest, like one hundred percentof the time, I'm using this to
like unwind, recover sleep, I'musing those functions. Now. I'm really
(11:00):
intrigued because I can't tell you howmuch how many products I get thrown on
my desk, like a week,Like it's it's crazy. It is half
the time you want to put youknow, you want to look into it
and then you roll your eyes likethis is what I just don't have patience
for it, and then lad,you end up getting to it months later
on. But it's becoming addicting.Like it's down to a system with me
now, like I wear an AppleWatch. I'll be honest with you,
(11:22):
I use like I checked the hightide for my boat, I adjust music,
texts come in. I have myphone up at my desk, I
look at it. I'm I'm usingit when I play hockey. I like
it because it's measuring I think apretty accurate slower steady state or moderate intensity.
Obviously, I won't use this forhigh intense innibrals. But when this
comes off at about six o'clock andI'm getting in the shower, this comes
(11:46):
off, I shower and my apollogoes on, and lately I'm feeling like
and I never like to say moreis better, but the more I'm wearing
it, the better my aura andthe better I am feeling the next day.
So now I'm starting to say tomyself, like, holy shit,
Like it recommends you to wear whatthree hours? I might be getting this
wrong. I apologize three hours.At least three Yeah, at least three
(12:07):
hours a day, at least fivedays a week. That's when we see
people getting the most best results.But it seems like those continue to improve
up to like six seven, eighthours a day. You continue to get
added benefit for every out. Everyminute of use gives you a small amount
of more deep, more rimslay.Why not wear this an hour before training?
You know? Why not? Like? Is this suddenly like improved my
(12:28):
alertness or my or my brain functionor my mental capacity or my reaction time,
like is this going to do that? Now? You're getting into Like
I look at it from a consumerstample. You have all these great options,
and you're like, you know,where do I? Where do I?
Where do I start? Like?How do you recommend someone to start
breaking into this? And what areyou like you just recommended three hours and
fifteen minutes five days a week.Can you can you break down some basic
(12:52):
recommendations and what someone should be noticing? Yeah, and I think it's We've
made it really easy to do now. So if you go into the schedule
of your app, you can literallyjust click your daily vibes and answer like
six or seven questions. Will figureout what your chronotype is, which is
what your ideals sleep and wake andenergy rhythms are, which is an evidence
(13:15):
based way to understand when you aremost able to focus and perform at a
high level, and based on yourchronotype, based on when your sleep and
wake cycles naturally align and when youare tend to be getting the best deep
sleep, and then based on whenyou absolutely need to be out of bed
and when you want to be inbed asleep every night or most nights,
(13:37):
we provide a customized schedule to youand then that schedule. That schedule basically
runs throughout the whole day and night, and so you don't have to do
anything. And we have a lotof professional athletes that use it this way
because they have very strict routines aroundwe know we're going to work out at
this time every day, and weknow we're going to need to recover at
(14:00):
this time every day, and sothey'll have these very specific workout routines.
Well, they'll they'll wake up withtheir apollo, they'll you know, have
it turned on like you said,for half an hour to an hour to
get them into flow before they workout or perform or train or or you
know, have to go and doan event, and then they'll have it
turn on recovery afterwards. And thenthat you know, restores them and helps
(14:24):
them wind down faster so that theycan actually get the rest they need so
they can do it again on repeatthe next day. Right, and what
about from a battery life standpoint,I mean, it's something that you got
to pretty much stay on though,I've noticed, right, I think you
know, in general, if youuse the assigned scheduling features that give you
the customized schedule, or you haveSmart Vibes, which is the AI subscription
(14:46):
we released where it adapts in realtime to you based on your our data
and your sleep data and turns onto keep you asleep at night, which
is really a cool feature it.The battery life will last you know,
one to three days, depending onyour intensity that you're using it at.
I think one of the biggest mistakesin an apollo is that people think that
(15:07):
more is more and you want tojack it up all the way, and
we see people actually getting better effectsat lower intensities where they just barely notice
it. It's noticeable, but it'snot distracting in any way. It's not
supposed to be the focus of yourattention. It's supposed to help us be
more present with whatever it is we'redoing. So that also conserves battery life
(15:28):
a lot. So yeah, Imean, you charge everyone three days depending
on how much you use it.But if you just plug it in when
you're showering like you know, likewe do, and or when you're doing
your nighttime routine, you know,you just plug it in and give it
like fifteen thirty minutes, the chargesup pretty quick. Interesting. Yeah,
No, I think that's probably mymistake was in the beginning, I was
starting at a lower percentage, andin time I felt like I was adapting
(15:52):
to it more. So I startedcranking it up. And then I'll just
put it on. I'll and I'llrun it, like I'll just go and
find a function and I'll at thatfunction, whatever it is. Like I
wore it on the plane the otherday and I thought phenomenal, Like I
felt like my sleep that night wasbetter. I almost felt like I was
calmer on the plane through turbulence.I just felt, for some reason,
(16:14):
a little bit more ideas. Andso that's that's that's interesting. What would
you from a percentage standpoint, youwould just recommend someone to turn it up
to the point where they're just noticing, but it's not over you know,
taking over all their their their focus. Yeah. I think about it like
music, right, Like if youwere going to have an ambient soundtrack playing
around you everywhere you went in yourlife, how loud would you want that
(16:36):
to be? Right? You wouldn'twant it to be so loud that it's
sorts to interfere with your ability tothink or you know, have conversations,
right or anything like that. Youwouldn't want it to be so loud that
it causes restlessness or discomforting your body. You'd want it to be kind of
like a gentle and low and inthe background. You know, what we
call in music is accompaniment, right, So it's kind of there. It's
there when you pay attention to it, you know it's there, but it's
(16:57):
not shocking your attention. The realbenefit of the intensity is for times the
intensity control on the device and doingit with the buttons, is that you
can use it on a plane andturn it way up because the plane has
so much ambient vibration that you won'teven feel it at the normal intensities you're
using it at home. So whenwe you know, we have you know,
(17:19):
elite military folks using this whore inlike helicopters and planes and tanks and
things like that all the time anddoing crazy stuff, and elite athletes who
were in like really noisy environments andgiant, crowded stadiums, right, and
they need to turn it up inthose settings because there's a lot more stimulation
going on. And just like whenyou're listening to music, you have to
(17:40):
turn the volume up when you're inan allowed place to hear it right,
and so it's no different with touch. It's just music composed for your body,
and the benefits are similar to music, Like if you look at there
hasn't been that many studies at musicand the therapeutic effects, unfortunately, but
if you look at the way thatmusic, you know, changes heart rate
(18:00):
and heart rhythm by increasing or changingthe tone and the frequency and all that,
it's very similar. And what we'reseeing with Apollo is you can wear
it continuously across time and there's cumulativebenefits. So we did a sleep study,
one of the world's largest sleep studiesthat actually came out of COVID,
where we you know, surveyed areausers and just collected their data when they
(18:22):
volunteer to share with us for threeyears, over thirteen hundred people, and
we've seen that using it, there'sall a near linear relationship between how many
minutes you use Apollo at night morethan during the day. But the day
is still important because helping regulate ourstress during the day will help us sleep
better at night and regulating our energy, especially if it results in taking in
(18:45):
less substances that could mess up oursleep. And so we're seeing people you
know, over the course of threemonths of using this the way we're talking
about, have like four percent decreasein resting heart rate, eleven percent cumulative
increases in HRV, and you know, nineteen percent increases in deep sleep,
(19:06):
fourteen percent increases in REM, andthirty minutes more sleep at night just by
using it on this consistent schedule.I I've never been able to get according
to or on my REM is alwaysthe one area that's just below I like
to say, it's never in theblue. It's always kind of like like
in the red, but right likejust below the average. And I want
(19:29):
to say, since I've been wearingthe Apollo, I want to say ninety
percent of the time, I'm probablyabove it now, which I think is
just fascinating. Yeah, that's amazing, and and I think that's that's what
we see in most of the peoplewho use it for sleep, is because
they're you know, if you're calmenough, safe enough, and soone enough
to allow ourselves to go to goto bed and get that deep, restorative,
(19:51):
you know, sleep, then weare We're going to get more of
it when we're safer because our allowingthe natural process of sleep take effect.
I think one of the biggest challengeswe have in working with patients with insomnia
is that there's something that's that they'velearned that is a cognition or or a
(20:15):
misunderstanding that there's something wrong with themthat they can't sleep. Right, and
all of us, I don't knowhow single human being present had that thought
sometimes in their lives. Right,I have certainly had that thought. But
we all evolved to sleep. Weall evolve to spend if you look evolutionarily
at all animals, like we evolveto sleep, and we've all to spend
(20:37):
like a third of our lives insleep, which is our most restorative place.
Right. That's a lot of timeand nothing is more therapeutic and healing
for us than sleep. So ifwe are not if we are not getting
that or able to get that,because we have a thought in our minds
like maybe there's something wrong with methat I can't sleep, then that's inducing
(21:02):
a fear response in the body thatgets misinterpreted like a survival threat. It
because our bodies don't know the differencelike threat is threat to the body to
the reptilian brain, it's our higherorder brain that has to remind ourselves,
hey, actually you know, Iget that thought, but if I actually
look at the research, you know, ninety nine point nine to nine percent
(21:22):
of people don't have an issue geneticallywith their sleep. There's only like one
family in the world that I've seenevidence of. That's a real thing called
fatal familial in Samia, where thesepeople having a genetic preon disease that kicks
off at like somewhere between forty fiveand fifty five and they just lose the
ability to sleep. Everyone else hasretained the ability to sleep. We just
(21:45):
think we can't, And thinking wecan't means there must be something wrong with
me that I can't sleep. That'sthe assumption that we make when we have
that thought, even if we don'tacknowledge it. And when we start to
have those thoughts, it engenders astate of fear in the body because there's
something wrong with me, because Ican't sleep and everybody else can. Well,
it turns out we all have thesethoughts and nobody can sleep, so
(22:06):
nobody's alone. And that restoring thatsafety thinking in the body, just grounding
us in our bodies with something simplelike apollo, is why these techniques are
so effective, Why somatic techniques breathingtechniques CBT, they're all part of the
same formula. The question I have, and this all sounds really positive,
(22:27):
what are the downsides? What ifI overuse it? What if I feel
like I can't live without it?What do you say to those people?
Because there's going to be people comingout saying like, wait, wait,
wait, we're relying on this whenwe should be able to regulate these things
ourselves. Do you do you getthose kind of questions, Yeah, all
the time. You know, I'man addiction psychiatrist, so this is my
(22:51):
bread and butter. But I think, you know, it's important to consider
the number one. I think thefirst thing to talk about is we've done
this research because we've tracked people acrosstime, We've tracked people across years of
using this since we launched, andthousands of people and we see and we
see all of their usage patterns,and people don't become tolerant to it like
(23:17):
they would an artificial drug or somethingyou're taking from the outside. They become
sensitive to it over time, whichis really interesting. So that's similar to
the effect that happens with deep breathingor with cognitive behavioral therapy. With exposure
technique exposure training, where you exposesomebody to something that's threatening them or like
the idea of a spider. Ifthey have like a rachnophobia, right,
(23:41):
they can put a picture of aspider up, their heart rate goes up,
and then the therapist is there toremind them that they're safe enough to
be able to be in the presenceof the picture of the spider, right,
and then it reconditions their nervous systemby reminding it that it can be
safe in a situation that used tobe threatening, and then those safety states
become easier to access in other situationsthat trigger that same response because they're training
(24:03):
it over time to practice, andthat's an CBT. Exposure is like one
of the leading treatments for PTSD,but it's an incredible amount of work and
requires therapists to be with you allthe time, and that's not just not
accessible to most people and doesn't workfor most people because it's an incredible amount
of work. So we were thinkingabout ways to tap into the same learning
(24:23):
pathway that trains the body to feelsafe in situations that were stressed, that
were previously interpreted as stressful or threatening, and to condition the body to be
able to access those states on itsown. That's how deep breathing has its
effect in meditation. After you're donewith it, there's a feel good phase
afterwards. Right, that feel goodphase our body learning to carry on the
(24:48):
feel good feelings of that experience,right, And that's trainable, and that's
what er Kendall want. The NobelPrize four in two thousand was discovering how
our memory works and how we cantrain in different ways by safety and fear
conditioning. So ultimately, if youtap into that, you turn what happens
with drugs, many drugs that aresedative and hypnotic and have other issues that
(25:11):
are addictive. You take that addictiveeffect with a drug and then you translate
that through memory memory neuroscience into alearning tool that conditions sensitization and self awareness
training. So people actually get morebetter over time, whether they're wearing the
(25:32):
device or not. If they wearthe device, they feel oftentimes better if
they haven't mastered started to master theself awareness skills that the device that the
wearable is actually subtly teaching them theirbodies. Right, But over time people
actually use the device less, theystill use it and they use it very
intentionally for specific things like the pregameand the recovery afterwards in the sleep,
(25:56):
but they're not using it like sixeight hours a day. They're using it
like very intentionally, like one totwo maybe three hours a day, oh,
you know, in the six monthstwelve month year groups. But sometimes
people start using it, especially ifyou have an illness that it's really helping
with. You know, I hada woman who wrote the other day that
says she uses it for like sixto eight hours a day because it treats
(26:18):
her chronic pain and so she cansleep, and she hasn't had anything that's
helped her. It's the only thingthat's helped her. And so people like
that use it all day every day, And you know, is there anything
wrong with it doesn't really have sideeffects, So what are the alternatives that
it is replacing for that person.It's replacing opioid pain killers, it's replacing
(26:41):
steroid injections, it's replacing surgical procedures. It's replacing all the things that person
would have to take that are actuallyreally harmful that a lot of my patients
were taking. This is replacing alot of those things for people, And
so people are actually using less drugsbecause they're using more apollo. And for
(27:02):
us, especially in the addiction world, you know, nothing could be more
promising than that. So it's likea neuroplasticity training device essentially. Yeah,
no, interesting, because neuroplasticity islearning and learning requires safety. If you're
in a fear state, everything condenses, right, you go into tunnel vision
mode. All of the resources toyour learning that is not involving survival shut
(27:22):
down, right. So to yourpoint, yeah, you summed it up.
It accelerates learning by reminding our bodieshow to be safe enough to learn
and be in that lureroplastic learning state. I've never thought of it that way.
So in a way, this iskind of rewiring, or this can
rewire your brain or I even thinkabout injury, Like when we had clients
(27:45):
come in and they're going through physicaltherapy and then at a certain point it's
like, all right, you knowwhat, we've exhausted everything. That's time
for surgery and they're always feeling painand they've been feeling that pain for years
after the surgery. We've seen that. You know, sometimes the pain's still
there for a while because those triggersare you know, it's still there.
They're they're they're almost expecting it.They're trained to feel that pain, so
(28:07):
those those signals are never turning off. And it's I foind that's very difficult,
right, because most people aren't gonnaknow what we know, and they're
not gonna say, like, no, we have to start rewiring our thinking
a bit. This is almost atool to start rewiring the way that you've
been trained to think. Yeah.Absolutely, and and it does so in
a really simple way, which isreally important because you know, it's we
(28:30):
often over complicate this. But like, the more you do anything, the
better you get at it. Right, So if you're in it, this
is what Eric, this is likethe sub the one line summary when summary
one liner of Eric Handell's Nobel Prizewinning work right from two thousand. The
more you do anything, the betterwe get at it. Practice makes mastery.
Right. That could be doing somethingthat doesn't help us, it doesn't
(28:52):
serve us, like thinking about whata useless piece of shit person we are,
or it could be something like youknow, practicing being grateful or practicing
lifting muscles, lifting weights to thegym. Right, Like anything that we
do, anything gets wired. Sowhen we are experiencing pain in association with
different experiences in our lives over anextended period of time, and there's a
(29:17):
part of us that thinks, hey, what if this pain never goes away?
Right now? You and then rightand and then you don't. Instead
of instead of sliding that you know, slight gently sliding that acknowledging that thought
and sliding it aside, right andmoving on to the next thing, you
decide to focus on that thought rightnow. You're in my experience that started
(29:41):
interrupt But I experienced last year.I had I'm very open about it.
I had my first anxiety attack dueto a medication that I got on and
had a bad reaction to it.So I had it one night, I
had it in another night, andthen I put you and two together on
the medication. Then I got offof it, and that following night I
had a fear going to I wasactually like, holy shit, am I
(30:02):
going to go through this again?And then I I and I developed a
new respect, like because unless yougo through it, you never really understand
what it's like and how scary itis, and you're like, oh my
god. Like the ability to notbe able to sleep, sitting up all
night like for me, is it'sfrightening, like when you know you have
the next day you have to function. It is horrible. It's really it's
(30:22):
really unpleasant. I mean, uh, who was I was reading some stuff
by is it Norman Deutge and hewas talking about neuroplasticity gone wrong and how
chronic pain is essentially that it's youcan create positive neuroplasticity and negative and then
even the stuff with the opiates wherepeople are creating new pathways to you know,
(30:42):
still feel pain and so they haveto take more opiates and more and
more, and so this is kindof the opposite, it sounds like,
and is it. It's not amedical device as it is now right,
it's a consumer wearable because we wantit to be accessible to everyone. But
because our clinical trials that we we'vehad so much incredible promising results from our
(31:02):
clinical trials. We've had seven trialscompleted to date, six of which will
be published this year, we aretaking it through the FDA pathway so that
eventually it can get reimbursement and youknow, be more accessible to people.
But this is not like any typeof vibration therapy here, right, Like
there's science behind the the I mean, what would you call them smart waves?
(31:23):
Like there's different smart waves that youwould choose options. Yeah, the
vibes, the vibes, it's likeit's a because a vibe is like an
experience. It's a tone of howyou're feeling in a setting, right,
it's a whole thing. And sothat that vibe starts with us. And
so when we walk into a experience, like we bring in whatever baggage we're
(31:48):
carrying, and so it affects thetone of the experience so effectively. You
know, I'll speak for myself,but I know most of my friends would
feel the same way. We neverlearned, especially as young men, Like
we never nobody ever told us prioritizelearning emotion control, right, or emotional
awareness or emotional regulation. Right.That was like never a thing that was
(32:13):
really like taught. Like I knewthere were certain ways you're supposed to act
in certain ways you're not supposed toact, but like in general, prioritizing
like paying attention and training emotional intelligenceand emotional awareness is not even a thing
that I knew about. It wasn'ta field that I knew existed, you
know. And so Apollo is reallya way to you know, now that
(32:35):
neuroscience has shown this stuff does exist, and it's actually really important that we
should all be learning EQ and emotionaltraining techniques and attention and mindfulness techniques,
and we should be learning it assoon as possible for our own mental health
and well being, like as soonas possible, because the sooner you learn
them, the sooner you can justdo it all the time, like passively.
Wherever you're going, you can bemeditating or being mindful, and that
(32:58):
can improve your body health and recoveryon the go. It just requires practice.
And so from studying like Eastern monksand meditators and their techniques, and
then all the way through what wedo with Western science that contributed so much
to the way we wanted to createapollow to help people like basically nudge us
back into the desirable state physiologically inour bodies, which then helps our minds
(33:23):
center in that desirable physiological state,and then you have a target for what
that state people are telling you you'resupposed to get to feels like right.
So it's like I think a lotof people are like, how am I
supposed to know how to meditate?If I don't even know what's supposed to
feel like when I meditate, right, how am I supposed to know what
(33:44):
I'm aiming for with these different breathingpractices, like where is the target?
It's like shooting in the dark.And so what we try to what we're
trying to do with Apollo is givetarget the body first, right, not
the brain first. Hit the bodyfirst, Give the body the feeling.
People can tap into that feeling andbe present with it, and then they
can understand what they're aiming for whenthey're trying to get there on their own,
(34:07):
and then that kind of reinforces thatpositive training. So it's like you're
ideally you're just continuing on with thatwhen you're not when it's not on.
So so you're kind of going throughthe peripheral nervous system to train the central
nervous system exacting. And now Iknow Don is probably think of this too.
Is this is obviously proprietary and patented. Have you looked at licensing it
(34:29):
to Apple so that they can throwit into their watch? We were like,
we're like, here, it's Ilove you. So we are talk
we are talking to Apple. Wehave we have uh our CTO is former
Apple uh and help build some ofthe core iOS operating system and the app
store, and so he had youknow, we've been in touch with Apple,
(34:52):
and we just released a new,very very special preview for your iPhone.
So if you haven't iPhone, youcan download the Apollo app and you
can open it and your iPhone willbe upgraded for free too. When you
hit feel, Apollo to deliver Apollospatented vibes to you through your phone,
(35:13):
and they can, yeah, andthey can induce like a twenty the feeling
of being in like a twenty minutemeditation with if you hold it to your
chest within just two minutes and itcontinues afterwards, and you can you know,
it's it's just a demo, right, It's just a way for people
to understand that you can get thisexperience out of your phone. And it's
(35:35):
really really different than any other vibrationyou've ever felt come out of this box,
right, Like, this is adifferent kind of experience and it can
fairly rapidly calm you down and alsoyou know, do other things, but
you need the wearable for that.So meditation. I find meditation is very
difficult, right, Like I've beendoing it for years. Oh there are
(35:55):
some people that I think there's there'sschedule and they're just their overall mindset.
Maybe it plays a little bit strongerto them. Like my like my day
is, I'm a New Yorker BNlike I am, you know, I
I I sleep hard, I workhard. I I the second I'm up.
(36:15):
There's not a period of time wherepeople like walk outside beerfoot and like
collect the Earth's energy and the andthe and the rays and like there's just
it's just the way that I live. And I find sometimes because my day
is bang bang bang, that evenlaying on the floor for fifteen twenty minutes
and trying to focus when life ishappening, work is happening is it's very
(36:38):
it's very difficult. I think.What I'm really what I'm really enjoying about
this is it's almost like it's multitaskingin a way. I'm not telling you
that I'm I'm putting on getting readyfor sleep and going for a run,
Like I'm not doing that, butlike i might be sitting down watching TV
with my kids and I'll just feelthese like this like life vibration on my
(36:59):
lit wrist and for some reason itbrings me to this point where I'm like
relax, like let it go,Like it's kind of like this trigger.
That's how simple it is. Soin a way, what I love about
it is it's not taking away anyadditional time for my day. It's just
adding value and it's not something thatI have to put on where now I'm
like, well, I have touse Like I love Aora, like I
(37:20):
utilize the data. I've been workingwith them for probably five six years already,
and over time you learned about it. But I also put a Ura
on a friend of mine who sleptperfectly, and I'm like, how'd you
sleep? And he's like terrible.It's like I was because he was like,
I'm like, how do you sleep? He's like perfect? But I
want to try or I'm like,what do you mean perfect? Because don
my head hits the pillow at eighto'clock and I'm literally waking up at like
(37:44):
five point thirty in the morning onmy own. I feel rested, I
feel energy. You don't wake upto use the bathroom. He's like no,
I'm like jealous, this is amazing. And then we put it on
him and I love Aora, buthe's like, no, mentally. It
put me into a different state wherenow I'm worried about the data and now
I'm starting like some conciously I'm thinkingabout it. I gave it a few
days. It's not for me.This is the only case that I've ever
(38:04):
heard. But also people buy itand they're like, well, now what
do I do? This should justput it on, And it kind of
does. Whether you're measuring the dataor not. It is putting you into
a better place to be able todo what I think is one of the
most important things, and that's recovery, rest sleep. Yeah. Absolutely,
and I'm so glad to hear thatyou've had such a good experience with it.
(38:25):
It just incredible. It's an incredibleyou know, it's not a good
incredible. And I've been around productfor twenty five years, and I got
to be honest. Most of thetime i'm taking something and I'm using I'm
like, oh this is interesting,But it doesn't become habit. For something
to become habit in my life,that becomes routine. It's got a one
(38:49):
work like I want it to be, not like, oh this kind of
works, like I need to seea significant difference. But you got to
be you know, easy, LikeI don't want to I don't want to
be sitting there wrapping myself up tofifteen sensors and laying in the dark.
And then suddenly it's like, oh, we've got a false reading. Let's
do it again. Like I've donethings like that with products that are fantastic,
but I'm like, wow, it'sjust this is not going to be
(39:12):
user friendly the general public. Thisis you put on a watch, you
put your setting on, or youhave your smart vibe settings and let it
do its work. Yeah, theputter. And I think to your point,
like, you made a really importantpoint, which is that a lot
of products are designed without taking intoconsideration style, our individual style, and
(39:35):
our time, right. And Ithink that was something because we are personally
so so busy and we use alot to help us with productivity that we
were like, we need to bea product that's compassionate and understanding of these
challenges that our customers will have thatwe also have because we're all human first,
right, and a lot of usshare these similar challenges. So that
(39:57):
was part a big part of motivatingwhy we made Apollo number one. It'll
be worn anywhere on your body anywhereon your person. Apollo works because it
works through your sense of touch.It works better on places that have dense
bone, like you know, yourarm, or your wrist or your ankle.
Ankle's probably the old time favorite spot, but chest is catching up real
quick. A lot of women arewearing it on their bras or on a
(40:20):
bros. Strap on the collarbone andclip belt, clip it. You can
anywhere. You can attach it andfiel the vibrations. You can wear it,
and it doesn't need to be onyour skin. It can be overclothing.
So all of these, you know, make it easy for people to
wear it versatively. And then secondly, we made it not require really any
effort after you set it up,Like if you wanted to get Apollo going
(40:43):
for you, from set up toto actually having it run. You know,
you don't even need to check itevery day. All you need to
do is set it up in fiveminutes and then you set up a do
you do this chronotype survey schedule.We assign you a custom schedule for your
day. That schedule get saved toyour wearable, and then your wearable turns
on automatically throughout the day and nightfor you without any communication required with your
(41:07):
phone, and you can use thebuttons to control it and turn it back
on or off or up or downor whatever you want. And it could
be separated from your phone as oftenas you want. As long as you
keep it charged, that schedule willrun for your whole week. So we
really wanted to make it just passive. Right, If you have to take
time out every time you want touse this thing, then you know,
it's kind of defeating the purpose becausewe're trying to give you more time back.
(41:30):
Right, that's the best commodity,the supportant commodity we have as humans.
You know, that's the toughest thingwith a lot of these wearables,
Derek is. I think they becomea bit stressful. They start overtaking people's
minds or their lives, and youknow, people start, you know whatever,
the fitness tracking wearables you're talking about, Yeah, yeah, yeah,
(41:52):
yeah, yeah, the fitness trackingwearables, and they're like there's just there's
certain basics that we have to alwayspay attention to, right, Like the
like Apollo's great, but like youstill got to focus on getting asleep,
You still got to focus on goodnutrition. You still need to focus on
movement right, however you want topackage that. Doctor David can't thank you
enough for coming on this is thisis incredible. Maybe we have you on
(42:13):
another day data to discuss some ofthe other topics that you were bringing up.
I know you're just just a baaldknowledge here, but can you let
everyone know if they're interested in learningmore about you, learning more about Apollo,
where can they go to find AndI know, obviously guys, you
can go to dotsle you know,dot com. I'm I'm a big I
am now a big advocate of ayou know, of Apollo, and anyone
who has questions feel free to DMme. But doctor David, can you
(42:35):
give us some info on that?Yeah? Absolutely, And firsts, thank
you so much for having me.It's been a really fun conversation and I'm
so glad that you're having such agreat experience using the product and I've been
having the same one and it's definitelyhelped my life quite a bit being a
physician and stressful startup life co founder. And if anybody wants to find me,
(42:58):
I always love to hear from people. You can find me at doctor
Dave dot io, which is myclinic website, my personal website, and
you can also find me at orfind the product at apolloneuro dot com.
It's a p O L l On e U r O dot com.
Or you can go to Wearable Hugsdot com, which is what the kids
(43:19):
call it. And I'm on socials. I love to hear from you at
doctor David Rabin on Instagram and Twitter, and I have two new shows on
Spotify and Apple that I think allof your audience would probably be kind of
into, which is about the scienceof consciousness and psychedelics. One of them
(43:39):
is called Your Brain Explained, whichis the general consciousness show about how the
brain works, and that's quarterly show. And then the other one is called
The Psychedelic Report, which is yourbiweekly psychedelic news featuring experts in the field
and talking about the latest research that'sgoing on. Well, you just got
a new all out of me,so I'm on, yeah, I tried
(44:01):
the app. Just what we're talking. Very cool, very cool introduction.
Honestly, did did Kate get youan Apollo yet? Derek? No,
no, no, no, I'mgonna I get one. I'm gonna stick
it all over my body. Andthis is incredible. I'm gonna message Kate
now, Doctor Dave, thank thanksagain. There's anything you need out of
us, let us know. ButI know our community is gonna absolutely love
(44:23):
this. My challenge with community isgonna love it. I'm slowly breaking them
into it now. I've got agood community of of thousands, and maybe
at some point we could bring someoneon to kind of answer questions or just
kind of you know, I neverlike to push that. Yeah, awesome,
appreciate it. Yeah, we'll publishit early next week and we'll send
you the links. Okay, sothat's good. Thanks doctor Dave, thank
(44:45):
you very much. Bye bye up
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