Episode 166 - Michelle Shapiro: Understanding the Role of the Functional Dietician

In Episode 166, we have an in depth discussion on diet and health with Michelle Shapiro.  Working as a  Functional Dietician, Michelle tackles a wide range of issues related to personal health, wellness, fitness and nutrition.  We cover a wide range of topics related to diet and nutrition including the growing incidence of disease, challenges around weight loss, questions about modern food quality, habits around food preparation and consumption, and the marketing around food and dining.  

Michelle Shapiro is an Integrative/Functional Registered Dietitian from NYC. Michelle has supported over 1000 clients to reverse anxiety, approach their weight with love, and heal digestive issues. Utilizing humor, nuance, and compassion, Michelle helps clients access their own liberating self-awareness. On her podcast, “Quiet the Diet,” Michelle shares her own journey of losing weight the wrong way (and what the consequences of that drastic 100 pound weight loss were), and how she learned to prioritize whole-body health as a result (instead of restrictive diets.)  Her goal is to empower listeners to make health decisions autonomously, every single time they eat. From functional nutrition to the latest research in integrative medicine, Michelle covers it all with her signature nuance and compassion.  

You can find out more information on Michelle Shapiro below:  

Instagram:                   https://www.instagram.com/michelleshapirord/  

Website:                      https://michelleshapirord.com/            

The D&D Fitness Radio podcast is available at the following locations for downloadable audio, including:  

iTunes – https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/d-d-fitness-radio-podcast/id1331724217  

iHeart Radio – https://www.iheart.com/podcast/dd-fitness-radio-28797988/  

Spreaker.com – https://www.spreaker.com/show/d-and-d-fitness-radios-show  

Spotify –  https://open.spotify.com/show/5Py2SSPA4mntNwYRm0Opri    

You can reach both Don and Derek at the following locations:  

Don Saladino: http://www.DonSaladino.com
Twitter and Instagram - @DonSaladino
YouTube - http://www.youtube.com/donsaladino  

Derek M. Hansen: http://www.SprintCoach.com
Twitter and Instagram - @DerekMHansen
YouTube - http://youtube.com/derekmhansen

Episode Transcript

(00:14):
Welcome to the D and D FitnessRadio podcast, brought to you by your
hosts Don Saladino from New York Cityand Derek Hanson from Vancouver, Canada.
Hi, what's up then? Good? How are you. I was with

(00:37):
g last week and we were talkingabout you a bit, obviously. Yeah,
the siblings, that's what I callyou to the troublemakers. Hi,
Derek to Michelle. Really nice toMichelle. I forget where you're located.
I'm right now, right in FortLee, New Jersey. However, we'll
be back in Manhattan very soon Manhattan, person, but in Fortly, New

(01:00):
Jersey right now because I had moldin the city. Unfortunately. When do
you what do you think you're gonnabe back in in where? What do
you mean? Is it? Oh? In Manhattan? I hope when this
lease ends. I'm hoping like withinthe year hopefully. But I like,
you really like my apartment, andI know you're also done, like you
like having space, you like notbeing in the city too. In some
ways, it's a thing, youknow. It was, Uh, I

(01:23):
was in the city for twenty years. I lived in there for about fifteen
and it was great. But nowyou just it's just different, Like you
want to go to town, yougo to town. I want to be
in the city. It's an hour. It's like right, and I've been,
I've been. I just got invitedby Max Lugavie to come in for
a screening on Saturday night. AndI'm going Friday. By the way,
damn your Friday. Yeah, I'mgoing Friday. It's it's in like fifty

(01:47):
seventh Street. Yeah, hold on, he said, ticket Saturday. I
got to see if I can bethere's going both, so you can also
go Saturday, but I'll be thereSaturday. So I'll be happy to see
you. I mean, be there. What's this depend He didn't really,
He said it was a documentary,his documentary he made about like doing the
brain research based on his mom's likehealth and like her decline and ultimately her

(02:10):
passing. So I just like itwas more it's like a personal reason.
I want to be there too.Yeah. Yeah, I want to show
him. I mean Max has beenvery very awesome to me. I yeah,
me on the podcast, so I'dlike to show support. So I
don't know if I can make itFriday, though, because I have a
trip I got to take during theday and to get back and I don't
know, but that's nice, andyou'll be back in the city then Saturday,

(02:30):
welcome back to both of us.You love this city though therek yeah,
I mean in small doses. Yeah, I go there, I get
amped up, and then I comeback to the West Coast and I'm like,
Okay, that was good. YouWhere are you in the West Coast?
Derek Vancouver can Oh that's fantastic.Yeah, oh that's so like you're

(02:52):
in the most beautiful nature, Like, yeah, you you have a good
balance. Then yeah, I likethe contrast. Yeah, it's beautiful.
I met Derek years ago. Derek'sa running mechanics coach but was working with
a celebrity in New York and hewas like, can I bring the guy
in? And I didn't know him. Yes, my head coach, and
I was like sure, and thenhe started like instructing my coaches, and
then we started hanging out and webecame friends. He spent like sixty weeks

(03:15):
in the city, and the nextthing you know, I'm like, I
was going to start a podcast withmy buddy Sean Perine. It years ago,
because you have one hundred and sixtyepisode, Like, yeah, we
we have a lot. So Iwas going to start a podcast with Sean
Parin. Sean Prine was the exeditor in chief of Mulso Fitness with Shawn
Like unfortunately passed away. He endedup having lung cancer. You fucking never

(03:37):
smoked the day in his life,never drank, was a runner, using
his oxygen properly, like the lastperson you ever reached that. Wow,
I mean it's just like terrible.It was just I honestly think that he
was under so much stress at work. I think more killed him. That's
off the record, but actually it'son the record because we were recording.
Yeah, we don't, we don't. We don't do any fancy intros.

(03:57):
This is Derek and I. Thisis always just about a conversation. This
is more about us bringing on likeinteresting people. Does it always have to
be about fitness, wellness, nutrition? It doesn't. It could just be
about like we've brought on like Dea, right, We've brought on Navy seals.
It's just like it's just like talkingabout life and things. So,
I, so you are you area holistic arguee? Right, So can
you explain that a little bit?Like what is that hundred percent? Yeah?

(04:21):
So I'm like what you could callme holistic, functional, integrative basically,
whereby there's like conventional dietetics, whichis really much more what you would
think of as like what dietitians doin hospitals. Functional dietitians look at the
whole body, So we want tosee how this organ is interacting with this
organ, how different parts of yourlifestyle and your health are all incorporated into

(04:42):
the whole of your health, andthen also really incorporating a lot of those
maybe nutritional supplements or testing and otherthings that are looking at the body in
a little bit of a different way. Okay, so when did you get
into this? So I've been adietitian for ten years, but I've been
a functional dietitian for like nine eventhough I wanted to study it. It's
like the dietetics degree is like asix year, seven year degree, and

(05:05):
then if you want to specialize afteryou can. So I've been but I've
been interested in nutrition forever, allthirty two years on this planet, and
then I lost one hundred pounds rightbefore college. Yeah, that's a huge
part of the equation of why Ibecame a dietitian in the first place.
Yeah, rapidly lost one hundred poundsbefore college in a way I would never

(05:26):
recommend to anyone else. Went intocollege and then was like, oh,
I'm grossly under eating and not movingin the right way. And that's it
really made me even more interested inthe degree in a different way. Dere
Wow. Yeah, I mean Ihave a lot of questions around. I
was reading an article and they werelooking through the research and saying there's an

(05:47):
increase in things like colon cancer,especially among young people, and so that
freaked me out. And so youknow, they're identifying different potential causes,
but I would assume that a lotof it has to do with what they're
eating, what's going in their systemone hundred percent. Yeah. I think
when I think of colon cancer specifically, and any cancer, we know there's

(06:08):
so many different factors. Of course, food, of course, genetics,
of course environment I think of whenit comes to cancer and the increase of
cancers. I think of all ofus as having been kind of like an
experiment for the past, like onehundred years, since the advent of processed
foods and the advent of adding talksinto everything, and we're seeing the results
of that experiment, and unfortunately it'sthat we're all getting sicker. It seems

(06:30):
like by the day, even doingthe same lifestyle things or even more than
we were doing before, which isdevastating, by the way, but we're
all so hopeful about health. Butit's you know, it's really scary to
see these the numbers of these diseasesskyrocket like this. Yeah, it's freaky.
I mean, so back up fora second, because losing one hundred
pounds is not like you passed itvery casually. And I don't know if

(06:51):
I do that about you. Igotta be honest with you, like,
I don't know if we I think, I know we have talked. I
don't know. I didn't know thatyou had that in in your back.
What are some of the things nowthat you find come really easy for you
that may have not, you know, before college, right, that you're
thinking about and saying, wow,look if I just did this, like

(07:15):
my trajectory would have been completely different. Yeah, that's a really good question.
I think, first of all,one thing about weight loss that a
lot of us don't acknowledge, butI know you both acknowledge, is that
there's a lot of social implications ofliving in a larger body, there's a
lot of social implication. So formyself, that's why I lost weight in
the first place, because I hadalways been bigger growing up. I was

(07:36):
going from Queens, New York,where I grew up, going to the
University of Delaware, and I waslike, oh, wow, people aren't
going to like know me there,and they're going to have to know me
from what they see, not frommy soul. I was very I had
no social problems. I had ahuge, beautiful life when I was going
away to school, and I'm like, I'm gonna have to lose weight for
that, So I really rapidly lostweight. I think growing up the reason

(07:58):
I was in a larger body wasbecause my family didn't cook. And no
blame to them, they just didn't. It just wasn't in our purview.
It wasn't their skill set. Ithink if it would have been from childhood
eating became more of like a familyactivity and it became something that we weren't
just grabbing pizza or fast food andthings like that, it would have been
a lot easier to not go onthat trajectory. I'll also say, you

(08:20):
both know this, it's very easyto gain weight. So if you're already
kind of in a larger body asa kid, you gained ten pounds a
year. It really adds on aftertime. So it was like very slow
for me. I started off beingchubby and then it was just slow and
kind of added on. Yeah,I've seen this as there's a few people
I've worked with in my career wherea few thousands obviously, but like,

(08:43):
but no, seriously, throughout theyears of the deal, they'll turn around
they're like, what happened, Likeit's been this thirty to forty year climb,
and I'm like, I get it. It's like, you know,
you start, you know, eatingless calories, you start fighting, and
you start you know and blood sugarsoff and start binging, and then you
start feeling crappy about yourself. Itreally is amazing how much the mind affects
all this, right, It's it'ssuddenly you're you we poorly, you feel

(09:07):
bad about yourself, your body feelsinflamed, you're sitting on the couch a
little bit more, you know,and you've got to have some drive to
be able to you know, getback on that horse and get moving a
little bit. But it's very likepeople are like, well, how does
someone you know gain with Like?I think it's very easy to fall into
that trap. I think this isa lifetime of we think about bad habits

(09:28):
that maybe any of us established throughoutlife, or tendencies we may all kind
of lean towards, and why can'tit be waking. It's just very I
think it's very obvious. You know, it's very easy and also done at
baseline. If in America, ifall of us don't make conscious choices every
single day to be healthier, weare getting sicker. That's just the trajectory.

(09:50):
We have one trajectory in this country. If we are not effortfully doing
things every single day, we're goingto end up with one sort of chronic
illness or another, or carrying unwantedweight, which then may in turn turn
into that Not to mention which Iknow we wanted to talk about, but
the kind of mental and emotional componentof all of this, which is that
if we don't do we're destined fordepression and anxiety and all of those things

(10:16):
too good sense. And I meanI was shocked. I can't remember where
I was gone, but I wastalking to some people and they were looking
at an app and this was anumber of people over the course of the
day. I think it was ata convention, and they were guess what
they were checking. They're all checkingtheir blood glucose levels and they all were
borderline or diabetic or you know,and I'm like, wow, that's a

(10:41):
lot of people that I came acrosstoday that have this issue. And obviously,
you know, maybe I take itfor granted, but it's not necessarily
in my family, but certainly thatseems to be a growing issue as well.
Oh. Absolutely, Yeah. Ithink the rates are that at least
about sixty percent of people in thiscountry have a diagnosed form of chronic illness.

(11:03):
So you can imagine how many peopleare I did know that I was
off on that number. I wasgoing to say it was thirty percent.
Maybe I didn't realize was that high. Yeah, sixty percent, So it's
more than one and two. It'sit depends on who you're asking. It's
always between fifty and sixty percent,though, is that number? And it's
getting higher and higher. The ratesof childhood diabetes are getting younger and younger
and younger too. It's just we'rewe're all putting in so much effort.

(11:26):
Specifically the three of us. We'reall out here, right, We're all
in it for the same reasons,and because I believe the machine of the
big food and the machine of bigPharma is a little bit stronger than us.
It's almost like we're fighting a tidalwave sometimes. But I have more
hope than ever that people can gethelp, by the way, so and
I believe that. No. SoI feel like nowadays like we have access

(11:50):
to so much better information right Itjust you know, you can pump med
and you can find a couple ofexperts out there that really speak from a
good place, doctor Gabrielle Lyne,self, my buddy, doctor Dwayne Jackson.
There are people out there that youknow can become the source that you
can that you really trust. SoI feel like now there are so many
different avenues for me to be ableto explore where you know, I've turned

(12:15):
forty seven on Monday, maybe birthday, thank you very much. Maybe twenty
seven years ago when I got intothe industry, it was way different,
but we have all this access now. Are we becoming unhealthier as a society?
We are becoming unhealthier as a society. I think that these tools are
amazing, and then also they're notalways accessible. And it's like, if

(12:39):
I think of it like a bucket, right, the amount of unhealthy things
in our physical environment, the amountof drugs that we take, the amount
of you know, like pharmaceutical drugsthat we take, the amount of just
the actual food we have is sodepleted in minerals and nutrients, the soil
we have is depleted. So ifthose like foundations are really filling that bucket

(13:00):
up so much, it's like you'regonna have to work double as hard.
So that's the problem. It's notthat people are actually moving more by the
way, they're actually more conscious oftheir health than ever. It's just that
the effort and the input you haveto put in is more now. Derek,
you feel a difference, Derek,I don't know. Because Derek and
I were just over in Europe,so you know, I'm over. I'm
over in Austria, I'm over inSwitzerland, and like streets are clean,

(13:22):
you're breathing in the air. We'reoutside, like I'm on the ski mountain
and they're serving me like green salads. Like the salad just tastes right.
It's winter time, it's fresh,it tastes different. Like if we travel
to a tropical climate and you're inan area that I call is like a
bit unscathed, the fruit tastes better, right, like things just you could

(13:43):
taste food that's alive. Right,And then I think even around here,
you start eating or eating healthy,but the food isn't like it doesn't have
that power. It doesn't. Yeah, I completely I just completely agree with
you. I want to hear aboutyour experience too, Derek, but don
I do. It's what you're experiencingis real. I have cousins, My
first cousins are Austrian and when theycome visit here, they are so ill

(14:05):
and they are the healthiest eaters inthe world. They're eating vegetables and meat.
They're not eating grains, they're noteating anything. It's just every single
part of our food system, unfortunately, is built for shelf life. It's
built for profit, and it reallyis a huge there's a huge difference in
the foods in Europe and now,I got to be honest with you,
in places like London and the UKthough, they're catching up to us and

(14:28):
the disease statistics because a lot ofit's become westernized and industrialized unfortunately. Yeah,
Like I was in Germany for twoweeks about the same time Don was
away, and even just like thesimple thing is like more people are walking
and taking bikes and just that partof it, not necessarily like a gym
culture, but certainly an exercise cultureand a mobility culture. But the other

(14:54):
thing was, like I was onmy phone the other day and I was
comparing with my wife our metric fromour smart watch and going, okay,
well, how many steps, howmany calories do you calculate? What was
your sleep? Well, you know, and we're having this conversation. I
think, you know, I'll havethat conversation with Don or like Don,
how many times a year do youget blood work done? And comparing that,

(15:16):
And I think there's certain segments ofus that do that, but then
there's a whole other segment of thepopulation that doesn't do that, or doesn't
give a damn or just does itfor show. Right, So I think
you're either engaged, like there's likea disappearing middle class on so many levels,
either you're engaged or you're not,but there's no middle class, right.

(15:37):
I just absolutely agree with you,and I really feel confidently that you
have to be a freak a littlebit. You have to be a health
freak in order to be healthy.I just there's two the odds are stacked
against you, like you said,and there's that disappearing middle. I love
how you phrase that too, whereit's either that people are so honestly tapped
out of trying things so they're notgetting the results that they just say,

(16:00):
I'm abandoning this, and I'm justyou know, throw your hands up exactly
screw it. Right. We alluse the word screw it in our careers,
I know we do, like withclients, right, it's like the
screw it mentality, or there's peoplejust like constantly who have to be in
it. And and don you madea really good point before too, that
people also like if you're trying reallyhard and not getting results. Because now

(16:21):
people might be doing like fancy functionalmedicine tests, but they're not applying it
in a way that helps them.And I put the blame on the practitioners
for that. They're spending more moneyand getting less results because they're not focusing
on the foundations of like being ahuman, like you have to get sunlight,
you got to walk right, likeyou have to be a human being.
And I know that's and I knowdon this is the work you do,

(16:42):
and I would bet Derek it's thework you do with clients too,
But don you actually make sure peopleare humans in your practice, Like they're
not just coming for that twenty minuteworkout. They're in with you. No,
no, And that's why I'm reallyin thank you. But like I
struggle, which is ironic because I'vebecome known for the person who gets these

(17:02):
people ready for the big screen.There's normally like a start and finish,
which I've always hated because I'm inthis for a long term investment. I'm
like, I don't like quick fixes. I don't like you know. Someone
asked me the day about juicing,and I'm like, well, why are
you doing it? They're like,well, I feel like it's a good
kickstart for me and I really wantto do this before I begin on this
journey. And I'm like, allright, in that case, I'm okay,

(17:23):
but don't, like, don't relyon this. That's the problem I'm
having with a lot of the hormonereplacement therapy nowadays, right, And I
believe and I had this really indepth conversation with doctor Gabrielle Lyne. Last
week I was in Houston with her, but we talked about it a bit,
and I said, you know,it's frustrating for me when I hear
that people aren't, you know,putting in the time and doing the little

(17:47):
things that are going to pay dividends. They just immediately want to go to
this quick fix. And then mynext question is you get on that as
a thirty or thirty five year old, how is it going to be when
you're forty five fifty? How's yourbody going to respond to that? And
then that's frustrating, And I geteven more pissed off at actors because they're
on there, you know, talkingabout getting on stuff. Now you know,

(18:10):
everyone's being open and honest, andthen that eighteen year old's hearing about
that and they're considering getting on ineighteen nineteen twenty, and I'm like,
oh my god, Like you haven'tput in those reps yet, Like you're
trying to play in your trying toplay in the US Open for golf,
You've swung a club five times,Like you're not even close to being where
you need to be. People donot want to spend time doing those boring

(18:33):
things. They want to result resortto cold plunges and saunas, which I
like, But those are not hardthings to do. Those are not The
hard thing to do is waking upevery day, Michelle and doing the things
that you bridge Exactly, You're onehundred percent right, there is. It
is like a drop in the bucketto do those things. And honestly,
I love cold plunging and so on. I use them regularly too. Sure
they're they're nothing on a body that'sstressed and inflamed. It's like you have

(18:57):
to think about the body as beingthe environment with which those things are going
into. If they're going into astress and inflamed environment, by the way,
they're going to be stressful and inflammatory. There is no It's like same
thing with hormone replacement therapy. Ifyour liver and your digestion are working properly,
you're not going to absorb those hormonesappropriately. So it's like it only

(19:18):
you have to get your foundations lockedin your blood, sugar, your digestion,
your muscle, your movement, yournutrition, and we, like you
said, it's it's not only thatpeople don't like want to do the hard
thing. It's that they don't.They truly are starting to believe the hard
thing doesn't do anything. They actuallythink the quick fixes are more effective,

(19:38):
and it's like they literally are notthey but but people are. They also
don't know how to quantify success,right, Like for years it was the
scale, and I'm not gonna lie. For certain people, the scale is
a very valuable tool, realitative,But what about the What about the woman
who you know, gay eight poundsof muscle last year and lost eight pounds

(19:59):
of thing? I mean, technicallythe scale is not going to tell her
anything, right, Like, that'sa pretty big swing in my opinion,
Like you're putting on that much bodyarmor and you're developing that resilience and she's
moving better and she's feeling healthier.Well, she jumped on the scale.
That's not really going to quantify thework she put in. How difficult is
that to lose eight pounds eight poundsof muscle? So I think we need

(20:21):
to do a better job of nottalking about Derek or you or I,
but like, as a society,we have to do a better job at
establishing these like non scale victories andteaching people what to pay attention to.
I completely agree and I will saythat's why coaches, any type of coach,
is so helpful. Like I haveclients who come to me with severe
anxiety and severe gut issues. Thoseare two of the conditions I work with.

(20:41):
And so someone will come to meand will literally be vomiting like twenty
times a day, running to thebathroom twenty times a day, and then
three months in I'll say to themlike, hey, you haven't mentioned your
digestion in like a month. What'sgoing on? And they're like, oh,
yeah, it's fine. I'm likeyou forgot, Like you forgot.
That's how you know you're healing.When you forget to care about something,

(21:04):
right, that's how you know.Like if it's something like again, if
one of your clients, like theone you were mentioning, if she the
scale doesn't move much, but hermobility is different and she can like lift
her kids or her grandkids up withoutthinking about it. But we don't realize
the things that we don't that we'renot suffering from anymore. We forget that
we were suffering in the first place, which is a good thing. I'm
glad we have short term memory onpain and suffering. In some ways.

(21:27):
Michelle have you dealt with any peoplewho have tried taking some of these new
drugs like ozempic and how it's impactedthem. I'm curious. Absolutely. Yeah.
So I have a pretty clear stanceon these drugs, which is that
they are a tool. So forsome people, they're a tool in the

(21:48):
toolbox. They're not foundational. ButI will tell you that because again,
some people have metabolic syndrome, theyhave true blue weight loss resistance. They
could eat the same calories and caloriesout work out, they are not going
to get the same results as someoneelse who does, not saying they won't
lose weight. Obviously, eventually theywould lose some weight, but it's going
to be a much greater battle.And if these drugs help with some of

(22:10):
those things, great, But Iwill tell you, Derek, that I
have I work with very like compromisedclients from an immune perspective, a gut
perspective, and in some people itcauses immediate and long term illness, and
the symptoms are so severe outside ofeven the gut symptoms like depression, anxiety,
inflammation, like pretty there's a prettyspecific group of people I don't love

(22:33):
that use them. And then formost people they can be helpful, but
you have to view it as atool in the toolbox. There is no
replacement for those foundations. Keep talk. So talk anxiety right now, because
I never really, I'll be honest, I never understood it. I never
no, I never understood until yougo through it, right, until you

(22:56):
go through it. I was ona medication a year and a half ago
and it affected me in a waythat I never got affected. And there
was probably a two or three dayspan where I could not go to sleep.
I mean, I thought I wasgoing to die, and it's I
had a new I'm sorry to admit, I had a new counter respect for
it. You know, because youhear anxiety and you're like, all right,

(23:18):
well you're you know, at whatlevel is that? Like are you
nervous? Or every time you laydown? Are you like like literally?
So you know, I think aftergoing through that for a few days and
found out what it was, andI had a new found respect for it.
But why is this something? Whyis this something that explained it a
bit? It just it just happensto people, Like how what is the

(23:41):
whole process of how someone with me? If I felt like it was simple,
there was a medication I took,and it just triggered something. And
it wasn't that in my brain.It triggered something in my brain. How
does this? How does this happento people who aren't on medication and they've
been dealing with this their entire life? First all, thank you for sharing
that down and I'm sorry you hadthat experience, and I'm glad you're feeling
better now. I'm glad. Igot to be honest, I'm very happy

(24:03):
I went through it. I reallyam, because now I feel like I
have this new not saying I didn'trespect it, but I think when you
go through something to get it,yeah, yeah, you have to get
Now when people talk about it's notlike, oh, go outside and walk
barefooted and take a deep breath andwalk around and earthing and you know,
connect with the energy and go meditateand you're going to be better. Like,

(24:26):
No, it's not like when you'regoing to bed at night and you're
like, I'm afraid to go tobed for the first time in my life.
I am nervous about it. It'sa scary feeling. One hundred percent.
Yeah. So my experience with anxietywas panic attacks, which I think
is like anxiety level ten. SoI'm definitely one of those like empathetic,
highly sensitive people who I'm feeling otherpeople's emotions, I'm feeling my own all

(24:49):
the time. I'm checking the temperatureof everywhere I'm at. When I lost
weight is actually when my anxiety becamereally bad. So this is a weird
thing. But I think something peopledon't realize is that weight loss is not
what your body necessarily wants to do, especially in a rapid period of time,
right because your body's thinking we're starvingto death. What's going on.

(25:10):
It doesn't like sudden changes like thatover time. So my blood sugar was
actually very low, which creates kindof like an alarm in your body,
like, oh my god, youhave to get us carbs. That alarm
is there to get sugar from insideof our body. And so it's this
interesting process that happens biologically where wecan make sugar in times of stress from
other non sugar things called gluconeogenesis.So low blood sugar is a huge sugar

(25:33):
for anxiety. The experience of anxietydon can be just like yours, where
it's a feeling of insomnia. Itcan be racing thoughts, or it can
be these very physical symptoms of justlike feeling off feeling. Fear obviously is
a big piece of anxiety, andthen panic attacks can feel a lot like
your body telling you you're going todie. I mean it could be that
severe. It's really like you aregoing to die. Is the kind of

(25:56):
feeling that people have, and wedon't have the tools to grapple with that,
obviously, because your body wants youto be scared, but you don't
want to be scared. So it'sthis kind of internal battle that happens.
But anxiety can be anything from likea racing heart, you know, like
that nause of feeling that butterflies inyour stomach, feeling all the way through
to panic attacks, which can gothrough almost like an out of body experience.

(26:21):
To be honest, I had apanic attack. I think you were
having panic attacks. By not thatI'm diagnosing, I think you have attacks.
That's what That's what it felt like, you can't breathe. It's just
very weird. I was never oneto have that. Ass felt like,
you know, maybe history can triggerthose things, right, I'm actually I'm
actually remembering remember this recently. Myfirst one was after a friend died years

(26:44):
ago, and I remember I gotto an MRI. I you know,
I got rob never like I couldI can lay in noose and be like
like no problem, and I remembergetting it one freaking out of it.
So like it's it's amazing how thesetriggers in your brain can just setting you
off anytime you get into this situationor this environment. What do you like,
what do you do to help people? I mean, I'm sure obviously

(27:07):
it's probably one hundred different answers tothis question, but can you go through
some basics for people who are listening, maybe they want to think about one
hundred percent? Yeah. The otherthing I want us to think about around
anxiety and panic is that, likeyou're experienced on, we have like a
stress bucket basically, and we canonly handle as much stress as in that
bucket, and when it goes overthat bucket, the alarm signals are going
off. So your friend passing thatcould be like a ninety percent bucket fill

(27:32):
and then that silly little MRI machinewas like ten percent over another ninety percent
exactly, and you're one hundred andten percent exactly. Yes, So there's
it's what's really interesting. And thisis like too big of a conversation.
But I'm just gonna briefly say thisis that the COVID virus was for many
people, and the vaccines themselves waslike a ninety percenter for a lot of

(27:55):
people. So what I've seen fromlong COVID is actually debilitating panic attacks people
who otherwise had no anxiety history.This is new. I've been working with
anxiety for ten years. This isit's actually this like histamine thing. It's
this whole scientific, nerdy thing.But this has been happening in the past
few years. I work with thesame clients much like you done. I've
had some of the same clients forsix years weekly. These are my people,

(28:17):
like we are showing up in whateverway lifestyle wise, we need to
never said anything about anxiety. Immediatelyafter getting the virus started having anxiety,
So there's there's something at play hereand I'm seeing new onset anxiety a lot.
What I would do with clients istarget anxiety from a bucket perspective.
I want to know the stress ofthe body that's happening, inflammation, blood
sugar issues, gut issues, andthen of course if there's mental support that's

(28:41):
needed, mindset and strategy wise,when it comes to anxiety, I really
have clients learning about the kind oflike different voices in their head. By
the time you're having a panic attack, there's been a lot of trying to
get your attention on something and alot of us trying to shut it down.
The best possible thing we can dowith anxiety is act actually listen to
it, accept it, and acknowledgeit as it's happening. So if I

(29:03):
have a kind of gut punch anxietyepisode, now I'll breathe and say,
oh, I'm familiar with this,I hate this, I know what this
is, and I'm going to waitfor it to pass. Because any panic
attack can't really last more than liketwenty minutes. It's the fear of having
another panic attack that then prompts usto be scared of sleeping, promps us
to be scared of doing the thingswe were doing, because our nervous system

(29:26):
learns by example. So it learned, oh my god, Don went to
sleep yesterday and he was anxious sleepbed. So I don't want to do
sleep again because that thing's going tohappen and I hated that thing. If
we ride the wave of anxiety,It's so much better than trying to fight
it or shut it down, becauseour body gets scared when we try to
shut it down. So the moreyou say go away, the more anxiety

(29:47):
says I'm here because it wants yourattention. So, like a little kid,
we give anxiety our attention and wesay, hey, how are you
doing? Hate that you're here?But I know that you're here. What
can I do to help you?Once that acute episode ends? I have
people re engage. I do thiswork with clients, and then also there's
amazing supplements I can use to justbring down the kind of physical edge of
anxiety too while we're working on kindof the mindset around it. Thank you

(30:12):
for that, Derek. Yeah,I noticed, and part of it is
the aging process, but I addsome similar things to Don. And I
noticed that I had a sensitivity tocaffeine as well. Right, I had
to stop, like, I onlydrink decaf coffee now because of it,
because I'm just like, Okay,That's something that was very noticeable. Absolutely.

(30:34):
Yeah, So coffee being a stimulantin and of itself is something that
obviously when we have physical symptoms thatmimic anxiety, like our heart pounding right,
Like, if you were nervous aboutsomething in your heart would be pounding.
So since coffee creates that sensation,it's a stimulant. It will increase
your blood pressure and your heart rate. For some people, feeling that then
creates a brain thing where you're like, what is that? Why is my

(30:56):
heart pounding? And back and forth. Also, anything stimula can kind of
activate your sympathetic nervous system, whichcan make you feel more up and up.
This is one of the first thingsI addressed with clients when we're doing
kind of the food end of theanxiety pieces. Are you drinking too much
coffee? Are you doing those things? And for you, Derek, like,
coffee was fine your whole life untilit just wasn't. And that's what

(31:17):
I really want to find out withmy clients is like what's okay right now
and what's not? Same with likea cold plunge or something whereby if their
buckets not ninety percent full a coldplunge feels great, then sometimes they do
it. I see clients with likehuge anxiety after because it's stress on the
body. Still, it's a goodstress, but too much stress is too
much stress, even if it's good. A couple of clients friends recently.

(31:41):
They were recently over the last fewyears, they were i'll call supplementing in
micro dosages of cannabis. You know, I understand you probably don't have any
answer to this because it's so youknow, the research is so thin,
I think. But they actually weregoing through anxiety attack of anxiety or panic
attacks, and their first response wasto take more cannabis because they thought it

(32:05):
was relaxing them. They actually afew of them got off of it and
found that their anxiety completely went away. Any type of panic attack they had
completely went away, which is contradictoryto why a lot of people taken in
the first place. They're taking it, they're lining it up with their ordering
readings, and they're seeing that they'reresting, heart rates dropping, and they're

(32:27):
exactly and they're seeing that maybe they'regetting a little bit better quality sleep and
they're falling asleep easier. But there'stoo many people that I know who were
on it that were having these issuesthat got off of it and no longer
have it. Have you seen anythinglike this? Oh yeah, major.
My first panic attack was when Iwas smoking weed in a basement in the
Island actually, by the way,and I will never forget because I was

(32:50):
like sixteen years old and I lookedat this dude who I hardly knew,
and he was like, you're havinga panic attack, and I was like
what, because I was like sounwell. A lot of people's first time
panic attacks are actually under the influenceof weeds. Specifically, I think microdosing
might be different, but I canthink of why. Maybe the reason why
for most people is because you wantto get back into control of your brain

(33:13):
and you can't, and then that'svery scary, and so your body that
disconnect is very scary when you're actuallyhigh. And I stopped smoking them too,
because I was like, this isnot this is not the life for
me. I don't want any morepanic attacks when it comes to micro dosing.
I think also if people's heart rateit's funny down. If people's heart
rates too low, that also cancause anxiety, by the way, because
you're not getting juicy blood flow toyour brain, you're not feeling energized,

(33:35):
and that low heart rate is actuallya potential cause of anxiety too. So
for maybe for them, especially ifthey're athletes like your people, they might
have actually gone a little too lowin that and then and then not getting
that juicy blood flow. Could neverthought of it that way. I never
thought about the heart rate piece ofit. But it's very it's very interesting
care I think we get into thisthis sort of pattern of people use and

(34:00):
catchphrases and terms very loosely. Andwhen you hear people talk about microbiome,
it almost seems like a bit ofa catch all, like, oh,
it must be your microbiome, right, And even when I was at one
of the conferences in New York,somebody had a supplement that was like a
you know, what do you callit? I can't remember of what the

(34:21):
term is, but but you takethis supplement and it'll correct your microbiome and
like a probiotic kind of yeah,probiotic type supplement, right, And what
are your thoughts on that? Andis it as easy to adjust it as
we think it is or is itjust about eating? Well, that's such
a good question. And I laughedwhen he said is it easy to adjust
it? We have like hundreds oftrillions of bacteria like they are not responsive

(34:44):
to us taking a little probiotic pill. That's been like a little laughable in
recent years, because I used toalso be like, oh, yeah,
we'll take this little pill and it'llchange it. Yeah. And you know,
Gabrielle's really close friend, doctor AlexisJasmine, just came. We had
this whole talk about this too,and she was saying basically that actually what

(35:04):
recovers people's gut microbiome and these bacteriathat are responsible for our digestion absorption are
interactions with other people. We nowestimate that our gut microbiome extends outside of
our body. There's like a cloudessentially. Is how impactful it is that
your gut microbiome can influence someone else'sbecause it's communicating with it. That's how
highly scientific it is and how sillyand funny we are we think we could

(35:27):
take a probiotic and alter the thing. What profoundly does seem to alter our
gut bacteria is eating enough fiber,eating enough free biotics, and which is
like food basically for our you know, that prebiotic fiber food for our gut,
which would also be really helpful toeat soluble fibers, getting sunlight appropriately
being in nature, like things thatyou know, if you put your feet

(35:50):
in the ground, you're getting alot more bacteria from the ground than you
would even by taking a pill orsomething like that. So eating a robust
and diverse diet and being a humanas as we were saying, and just
getting that sunlight access and that circaanerhythm and being with like other people who
you love. It's so silly,but that connection piece seems to alter our
got microbiome more than these fancy supplementsand things like that, which is not

(36:14):
that surprising, but it's funny thatwe were so we thought we were so
smart at us functional people we've beenlike, I think it's refreshing to hear
you say that, right, becauseit's the truth, and it's you know,
I thought that one little pill suddenlygoing to fix something, you know,
so so extrue. So I'm goingto bring up a topic right now.
You're going to roll your eyes toit, but we have to talk
about it because I think people arejust missing the eight ball and this alcohol

(36:36):
right like, well, you know, people are getting into and they always
try and justify it. Right whenmy doctor says I can have this,
so I only drink wine or Ionly drink clear, and doctor G and
I have our opinion on it,and I would love to get your opinion
on it. But how alcohol affectsthe microbiome. I am not at all
worried about the calories from alcohol.It's not on my but what are the

(36:58):
other things that it does. Theycan you explain to people, because they
need to hear this from you,not only me. One hundred percent.
Yeah, so there's really no safelimit for alcohol in my opinion. I'm
pretty I'm pretty h flexible with clientsand their lifestyles when it comes to that,
but I'm aware that it's hugely taxingon your liver, and then anything

(37:22):
that also is going to be challengingto your liver is going to be challenging
to the rest of digestion. It'stremendously inflammatory to the rest of your body.
Inflammation is a communication system, soyour microbiome is going to be communicating
with the other parts of your body, and inflammation is kind of this like
downstream effect. Alcohol is like pouringfuel on a fire in my opinion,

(37:43):
So and it really can. There'sso many sizes that show it can alter
that gut marcrobiome and then also havemany other downstream effects. We'll also tell
you that again with people who areexperiencing anxiety. Caffeine and alcohol are two
of the first places that I lookbecause alcohol does a couple things that concern
me. It'll affect the body's abilityto handle stress because it will dampen the

(38:05):
capacity of your parasympathetic nervous system andthen your nervous system. By the way,
also the nerves of your brain andyour gut communicate to each other,
and that'll change your gut bacteria too, which is pretty amazing. Alcohol also
is very generally high in histamines,and histamines are, like I said before,
one of these anxiety things that's beencoming up a lot. So I've
seen people tolerate alcohol less and lessas time goes on. It's definitely if

(38:29):
people are noticing they're having low bloodsugar episodes, sleeplessness, they might not
be getting away with alcohol so muchor as much as they think. It's
amazing how bad you feel. I'mnot a drinker, but every year I
go to Europe a few times ayear, and I really enjoy beer.
But I won't really drink beer here, but I'll drink it over in Europe,

(38:51):
you know, casually, we'll havea beer here in there. When
I was over in Europe a fewweeks ago, just by having a couple
of day, probably a couple beersa day. I got home and I
was legitimately between the jet lag,the dehydration, just looking at my body
recover. It took me, Iwant to say, a week and a

(39:13):
half between all of that to getback to this level off. All right,
I'm a person, yeah, Butlike when you're that in tune with
your body, you can see howit affects you. You know, there's
ways to measure. There's there's trackers, and there's things that you see,
whether they are one hundred percent accurateor not. You're following these trends,
the trends, the patterns. Whatmatters, right, pattern matters exactly my

(39:37):
resilience on this and you know thatnew category, right, you saw this
week span I was away and youjust saw it do this, and then
the first week I was back,it was doing this. And then suddenly
you start seeing a climb. MyHRV was in the tank. I'm like,
ho, like my TV got cutdown by a third and you're fighting

(40:00):
it. You're you're like, allright, I'm tired, all right,
I feel it. But that willallows you to push back. Anytime you
expose yourself to this at different timesin your life, it changes your thinking
and whether you want to ever dothat again, right exactly. And you're
not even a drinker again, soyou're not getting like the huge benefit like
people who love to drink love todrink, and they're getting these huge like

(40:22):
dopamine benefits. For you, youjust really don't feel good after, Like
it's fun to drink beer for asecond, but you're like, I'm good
because you're getting No, you're noteven getting that boost from it that something
else could easily give you. Alcoholis a poison, right, We acknowledge
that the body has to metabolize it. It's incredibly challenging to metabolize. I
know that there's always these studies thatthere's resveratrol and the wine and that,

(40:44):
you know, look at these.I think that people just take for vitral
exactly. Doctor G will hook youup. Okay, we'll get you in
very high dose ers vertral. Youdon't even take the self, we'll get
you medication level as Raetel listen.I think that the thought is oheople in
Europe are so healthy because they drink. It's not because they drink. It's
in spite of the stuff that's goingon in America. That's why they're healthy.

(41:07):
It's not because of the alcohol.Maybe they can tolerate that again,
thinking about our health bucket, maybetheir health can tolerate it more because they're
healthier. I do not think that'sthe reason that they are healthy by any
means. It's like a friend ofmine who's he was sort of on and
off against smoker, and he's tellingme like, wow, smoking calms me

(41:30):
down. I'm like, no,you're in withdrawal. You heard it from
not having it exactly. I thinkthat has a lot too. Yeah.
My dad has a comment about weedand he says, no one has ever
been a better or smarter or kinderperson from smoking weed. And I'm like,
that is that's the truth. Yeah, that's sorry, don There was

(41:52):
no It's fine. There was abook I read years ago called Nutrition and
Physical Degeneration by Western A Price,and it was I probably read this book
in my early twenties was when Ireally started getting into understanding about organic farming
and the different soils and the tractoron the you know, on the soil

(42:15):
opposed to the horses. You know. Yeah, what what the hell is
it? It's not a hoof whatis it? It's off right? Yeah,
and how it would nature the soil. And they started showing people in
different regions who were never exposed tochemicals or toxins or low levels of stress,

(42:36):
and they went through their jawline,I mean even after they passed away,
and they showed their teeth, andyou started saying to yourself, oh
my god. Then you know,obviously the people who are living would come
over to the States and spend afew weeks. And I think you had
chimed in on this earlier about yourfriends who are Europeans. Talk to us
about what is it they do drinkover there, right, But there are

(42:58):
different types of acts to food qualitiesthat they have that maybe we don't have.
There's portion control, there is youknow, do we live to work
and do they work to live?Like, yeah, talk to us about
why, you know, why,why why isn't that we do see a
difference and over there I didn't seeany obese people, to be honest with
you, Yeah, it's it's it'sa combination of the I feel like the

(43:22):
way that we view the body inaddition to literally our environment so there's the
way that we view the body isthe body is something that is broken that
needs to be fixed, versus Ithink in many other countries we view the
body as being this whole amazing thingand then if something happens, we can
kind of support it back to balance. We have very poor nutrients supply in

(43:42):
our in our literal even those organicfoods, the nutrient quality, the mineral
quantity is so different compared to Europeancountries. We also one of the biggest
speculations is that we spray with lifeis eight the roundup, you know,
is a huge potential consideration here ona lot of our crops. And I
also think that people in Europe aremuch more community centric, and I think

(44:06):
that is such a big deal thatthey are with people, they are enjoying
meals together. We eat our mealsalone, We eat our meals at our
desk. We do not live togetherin any sort of communal way, even
even in big cities like Manhattan.I think they're even more isolating than living
in a rural place, which usedto be like we were all crammed together

(44:27):
in cities so we would all seeeach other. But I think with the
advent of like technology combined with thefact that we have these ideals of working,
like you said, constantly and nothaving that family community time, I
think is such a huge part ofit. That's something that I did see.
You have a good point there.I remember going to a few restaurants
where they had large tables. Everyonewas sitting there, they were conversing with

(44:51):
each other. There was no phoneson the tables, no was checking Noah's
sitting there. It's like they werein this moment of enjoyment and happiness and
presence, and it was you know, now that you mentioned that, you
know, that was probably one of, you know, later on, one
of my bigger takeaways of what wasthe difference. Just it's a different atmosphere

(45:14):
when you go into a restaurant herea post over there. It just seemed
more like that community. I'm gladyou said that. There's also you know,
it's really funny they did this,they did this study. I think
it was like twenty years ago,but there was this YouTube videos obsessed with
where they had French students, hadthey put a plant into like French classrooms,
and they would have students in acollege level class eating in class and

(45:36):
the other kids were like so shocked. Everyone in the class was like,
are you eating in class? Likewhy would you do that? Because food
is this experience in Europe, yousit and you enjoy food. You would
never just eat in the middle ofthe day all day. It's not something
that you would be doing where you'rejust like nibbling on stuff, like you
sit down and you have a meal. So they were so shocked. And
I'm sure it must be a littledifferent now as all of these countries are

(45:58):
catching up to our but in thatvideo, I was so shocked that they
were like in elementary school always youcan always eat in class in America and
it's very commonplace to do that,and certainly in college that was like the
only time I did eat because wewere like too busy having fun the rest
of the time. Okay, youguys find like you know, I have

(46:19):
on my social media feeds, likesay, on Instagram, stuff comes up
about local restaurants and it's almost likeI'm not going to I hate to say
the word food porn, but it'sit comes up and you're just like,
oh, geez, I'm really missingout. I should go to that restaurant,
and they really objectify it. Ina way that makes you feel like
you're missing out. You find thatthat's an issue now too, Like stuff

(46:40):
pops up, I'm like, oh, I guess I have to go to
that place now. Oh yeah,And you're you're hitting on like the edge
of an iceberg here, the icebergand the glacier underneath is that this is
the only country where food marketing isallowed in this level. We are marketing
food to children, like think aboutthere's celebrities on cereal boxes to make children

(47:02):
buy it. Can we think ofthe sickness in that? Like how and
it's poisonous foods for children and we'reselling it directly to them. There's ads
on television targeting specifically marginalized, lowincome populations of children. And then we're
kind of flipping it in this wayto make it like these foods that are
unhealthy are more accessible or something.And then of course there's food marketing to

(47:25):
adults who are healthy like you,and that if it can even get you,
can you imagine how much it canget a kid who's watching TV and
being told that they're going to behappy and healthy because of this. The
gorilla marketing of food companies would shockus all to our core if we knew,
they're dirty secrets and there's some wayswe're starting to air it. But
it's the same big tobacco guys.I mean literally the same people. It's

(47:47):
not like they're any different, andthey are so wicked and so it is
so effective. There's strategies that ithas created this if you were in Europe,
don or Derek, did you seeyou know, like Michael Jordan off
fruit loops box, No, theydon't have anything. There's no food marketing.
That's not you have one brand offood and it's food. It's not

(48:07):
like apples by you know, theNBA. It's I don't know why I'm
doing some basketball references, but it'sjust it's just literally apples right. Like
you're not being sold you're being soldto in this country. That's the bottom
of it all is that this isa country that corporations and the government benefit
each other and this is the resultof all that. Basically, I got

(48:29):
I got one more questions because you'vebeen so gracious all the time, and
honestly, Michelle, we can stayon with you for hours. You're just
a very easy person to talk to. So what should we feel encouraged about
I mean, you know, wewe obviously went through, you know,
things that need to be fixed,just a few of them, or things
that we I think all agree on. But is there anything out there right
now that's making you feel good aboutwhere the industry is going or how we

(48:51):
are progressing to another good I amnever I have never been more hopeful than
now. And I know it wasdoom and gloom. I'm telling you I've
ever been you know exactly, butit's it's not even my usual style.
But I've been particularly pissed about thefood stuff recently. So I'm venting on
your Guys podcast. But I feellike I'm seeing so many practitioners coming back

(49:14):
around to those basics don where theyare like, you know what, the
freaking functional medicine test, the fancytest, they didn't do anything. We
have to get back to that Iwas wrong. Yeah, a lot of
them are coming back around or that. You know what, I get ten
DMS a day from dietitians who sayour education wasn't enough. Are you actually
helping people? Because I'm not gettingresults with people? What can I do?

(49:36):
People are asking the right questions,and I will tell you I've seen
people throughout my career have as muchas I've seen new anxiety, I've seen
people with severe panic attacks of twentyyears heel the information we have now,
Like you said, I really feellike we got it if we can just
say laser focused on it. I'veseen so many cases of miraculous healing that
are not so miraculous because if youdo that foundational work, you we'll get

(50:00):
there. And there is not Iwill tell you just in total transparency.
My aunt has gliobastoma brain cancer,which is the diagnosis you don't want.
She got diagnosed three years ago.I think today. Actually it's either today
or tomorrow. The doctor told heryou'll be dead in three months. It's
been three years, and it's reallydue to like hardcore nutrogenomics, like really

(50:21):
intense you know, of course theadvent of new medications that helped her as
well. But you could give meor someone in my family a brain cancer
diagnosis stage four, and I'm stillgoing to believe there's hope, Like as
long as we are breathing, wehave hope on here and I fully believe
that. I believe that. Also, my uncle, unfortunately was diagnosed with

(50:42):
God it was five years ago.He had terminal cancer and he's still here,
so you know, there are youknow they are going to get it
wrong, and they are. Imean, do we really know how someone's
going to respond? And I think, you know, we haven't talked about
this at all, and I'm goingto use some language on here, but
he almost took this fuck you approachto it right, and he almost like
he got it. He was diagnosedwith it and he kind of looked at

(51:04):
me and was like, fuck thisthing right, And I was just kind
of like look at But like hecame into a meeting with me recently and
I got to tell the story becauseit's inspiring. But comes into a meeting,
it's a bunch of us sitting there, and he got a suit on.
He's on crutches coming in because theywanted to amputate his leg and then
he end up having surgery and theydidn't have to. So like the guy's
been through the ringer. But hecomes out, go how you doing,
buddy? He was good, Donnie. He's like, yeah, I just

(51:25):
came from the doctor. I said, how do to go? And everyone's
like sitting around listening, wanted tohear something inspired. He goes you know,
they found two tumors on my spine, and I'm just looking at everyone
and everyone's like, you know,they don't know what to say. But
I'm like, I'm almost looking athim like something's coming out of his mouth
right now, like I'm waiting forit. I'm like, come on,
he was, it's interesting process,guys. I don't know if you're familiar
with it, but they're going togo in and they're gonna tattoo. They

(51:47):
got a tattoo these areas of myspine where they have to inject it with
chemotherapy. He goes and the doctorsaid he's going to do two tattoos.
And I looked at the doctor andI said, well, do me a
favor, can you tattoo fuck?And you Oh my god, and we're
just like I started laughing and everyonewas like I love that they're laughing.
And I'm looking at it and shakingas my head because I'm like, this

(52:10):
guy's a machine. But it's Iam convinced that part of his success,
part of it, it's it's hishead space. Well I think it's I
think it's like a lot his headand I'm a I believe in medicine and
I love it, and I willtell you it's funny because there's like kind
of a gen Z versus gen Xversus millennial thing. And I joke because

(52:34):
like you and Gabrielle are very hustleculture, like get it done type people,
which I but it's like kind ofmaking a comeback because people are like,
oh shit, you kind of haveto do it. No, Like
it's kind of exactly. It's likethey kind of were right and you kind
of have to do it. AndI'm like, I'm loving it coming back
around where people are like, Okay, we tried the other way of like
it had it's gonna be easy andwe can make it easy and pour us
and everyone's like, well that sucked. And now I'm coming back to the

(52:58):
Don and Gabrielle situation and I loveit. I love it. I love
it. Michelle, do is afavor. This is a great conversation.
I got to get you in mychallenge community to bet by Challenges. They
would absolutely love you, love you, you, let it, thank you.
Could you let us know where everyonecan find you and if they want
to reach out to you, what'sthe best way of doing stuff? Absolutely
so you. My Instagram is reallyeasy. Michelle Shapiro RD. I have

(53:19):
an anxiety program called Anxiety Proof.I have a team of uh it's US
five total, so there's four staffnutritionist dieticians that you can work with one
on one if you need any supportlike that. We work with anxiety,
gut issues, losing weight in anon harmful way. And I have a
new program coming out for people withreally complex immunity stuff. So I'll pass
that information along to you too.Don what absolutely love it, and remember

(53:43):
like you could be the smartest personyou know. Does that interest us?
You've got to be a great personto be on D and D F in
this radio. Derek and I loveDerek and I love just great cool people
that we could just sit here andwrap with. It's a casual conversation.
There's no fancy intro. You know, we're just you know, derek'son is
tank top. I got a backwardshat on. We want to relax in
fun. You were a great personto have on. We're really grateful be

(54:05):
great getting to know Yet I'd loveyou to take a trip out here like
we talked about last time. Iabsolutely promised Derek. I'm so happy I
got to meet you. The honorwas mine. Thank you both so much,
Thanks Michell, Derek One