Episode 172 - Dr. Pat Davidson: Embracing the Competitive Bodybuilder Mindset - D&D Fitness Radio Podcast

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome to the D and D Fitness Radio podcast, brought
to you by your hosts Don Saladino from New York
City and Derek Hanson from Vancouver, Canada.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Guys, how are we?

Speaker 3 (00:32):
Holy shit, you're fucking monster.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Dude very nicely.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
By the way, so Ude, I went to Pat show
a few weeks ago.

Speaker 4 (00:44):
It was it was really it's always unbelievable to not
see someone for a while and see.

Speaker 3 (00:51):
The improvements when you know they're putting their head to like.

Speaker 4 (00:55):
You, like Pat, like out of everyone that I know,
anyone that I know on the planet, like I know,
I'm dedicated with this stuff, right, Like you're like you're
as dedicated as anyone I've ever met. Like there's I
don't think anyone's gonna put I don't know if I've
ever met anyone who's gonna put more effort into getting
to their body com goals. And he's going to literally

(01:19):
be targeted, focused and not let any distractions get in
their way. It's like it's like it's it's actually like
I don't see this anyone. It's actually inspiring, it really is.

Speaker 3 (01:30):
It's like it's fucking amazing, And I was, I was
genuinely proud of you, man. I was up there. I
was honored to be asked even show up.

Speaker 4 (01:37):
I put in my calendar a month before literally, and
we showed up, but we cheered like a bunch of
kids in the crowd, Me and Marcos and you know,
just seeing the package that you delivered and then hearing
the critiques and hearing your approach. There was nothing down
Like you won your digit, like fucking pad. You weren't
a bodybuilder five years ago, right, bodybuilder? Now you came in,

(02:00):
you won your division. But then also to see and
hear these are things that need to be worked on
where most people I don't know. I'm sorry for the ramp,
but I gotta give you praise on this. No, no, no,
But like you know, I was, I was with one
of my challenges the other day and they're like I
was doing an exercise and and I just was struggling
with it, and I'm just frustrated, and I'm like the.

Speaker 3 (02:21):
Struggles the best part.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Like I've never not struggled on an exercise, Like it's
you know what it is, It's a fucking tug of war.

Speaker 3 (02:29):
I feel like training is like that game when you.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
Were a kid, when you just grab each other's hands
and start like that's training.

Speaker 3 (02:38):
That's what it is.

Speaker 4 (02:38):
It's this constant fucking tug of war of trying to
like annihilate a muscle while being smart about it and
understanding that like, oh yeah, we could just do volume
until I can't move tomorrow, and then what good's that
gonna do if I'm injured? Right, So it really is
bodybuilding is an art on so many levels. The posing piece, Derek,

(03:00):
the the training piece, the nutrition piece. It's like golf.
It really is like golf. You could be good off
the tea, but dog shit with your mid irons. You
could be great in the bunker and then shitty with
your putter. It's like there's so many different elements to golf,
and bodybuilding reminds you of that.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
I mean, there's so many things I want to talk
about with what you just said.

Speaker 3 (03:22):
No, I fucking I'm sucking charged up to you.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
I'm charged up because even looking at you right now,
thinking about the days that we trade in here, our
relationship to three of us, no fucking intro here like this,
the little bit get at it like this is this
is like this is a new passion of yours where
five six years ago. It was like strong Man, and
it was like other things and maybe power and like
it's interesting to hear like even Frank Zeppi turning around

(03:45):
and being like, holy shit, his legs, Like that's from
all that heavy, like real heavy shit, not like fifteen
years of doing like fifteens and twenty reps.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Like you're picking up heavy shit. I'll leave it alone now.

Speaker 5 (03:58):
Oh, I mean, first of all, thank you, Like that's
amazing to hear that. And you know, it was so
cool for me to have you there and for that
dinner that we had after that, like because you know,
I had just been in my own world for months
going into that thing, Like you know, I hadn't been
out to eat, period in a long time. I hadn't

(04:21):
really done anything in like a social group in a
long time. And so that just that after effect that
experience was like, man, it was like nutrition from my heart,
like for my soul to be around really positive, amazing
people and like that environment. You know, it was it
was a that was a very special night.

Speaker 4 (04:43):
Actually it didn't even really matter what you ordered because
you like looked at the menu and like after a
bodybuilding show, Derek, everyone's like so thoughtful of what they want.

Speaker 3 (04:51):
Like, oh my god, I can't wait to that pizza.
Derek said, give me the menu.

Speaker 4 (04:54):
He's like, this sounds great, and he just was like
laser focused on being at a table with people that
he really enjoyed their company, and it was listen, it
was a special group. Even your coach who I never met.
We sat to wrap them back and forth like just
a great dude, and everyone like you just see Marcos
is like every time I'm around Marcos, I'm just like, God,
if I was in the city working next to this guy,

(05:16):
he'd be one of my closest friends. Like You're just
there's a reason why everyone was there, but everyone was
there in full support of you.

Speaker 3 (05:22):
But give me fair, Like this is what I wanted, Derek.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
What I really want to talk about today is bodybuilding
doesn't get enough credit, like there is when it comes
down to dedication. You said something to me that night,
you said, you know, the other day, I was cutting vegetables,
and I'm thinking, I know, like i haven't been on stage,
but I've done prep and you almost like in a
way we're explaining it, like you started going a little crazy,

(05:46):
like you're cutting vegetables, thinking to yourself, oh my god,
here I am cutting vegetables again. And it's like it's
the same thing I've been doing for the last sixteen weeks,
and it's the exact same meal I've been It's it
really is crazy.

Speaker 5 (06:01):
Well, yeah, you know, I did a show two weeks
before the one that you were at, and you know,
I was a little too fat for that show. And
it's like, it's so interesting to say that, because like
regular people that have never done bodybuilding.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
They're like, what, but like, dude.

Speaker 5 (06:22):
If your hamstrings aren't in and your glutes aren't striated,
you're too fat for bodybuilding. And you know, Ethan went
to that show. He helped me, he worked with me,
and immediately, like when I got off the stage and
I was like, well what happened? He was like, your
conditioning wasn't good enough for them to consider placing you period.

(06:44):
And you know, I love when people give me that
kind of feedback. It was just like, oh, okay, like
I thought I was better than I was, and he's like, yeah,
you know, I know you got another one two weeks.
My recommendation to you is get right on the diet
as soon as you finish this show like when you
go home, right back to it, okay, and just it's

(07:06):
gonna be if you want to do well in the
next one, it's gonna be two weeks of punishment, you know.
And I was like, got it, dude, And but like
it was, I worked my ass off to get to
the first one. But the feeling of standing on the
diagonal knowing that I didn't place and it didn't go
that well, and I'm just like, you know, that was

(07:28):
in my head and I was saying to myself, I
don't ever want to feel that again, Like I don't
like working hard for something and getting punked. And but
I remember like being at home after that, covered in
spray t TND, the whole thing, sitting at the counter
just chopping peppers and mushrooms and broccoli.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
And what was the other damn thing that was over
and over. You know.

Speaker 5 (07:54):
It's like I'm a few weeks away from it now,
so it's almost what was it again? Like I don't
even know, but like it was this weird like oh
my god, dude, Like you know they always say, like
before you reach enlightenment, like you know, you chop wood,
carry water, sweep the floor, sort of a thing. And
then once you're there, you chop wood, carry water, sweep

(08:15):
the floor. And that was going through my head. I
was like is this good?

Speaker 2 (08:18):
Is this bad? Like where am I right now?

Speaker 5 (08:21):
And at a certain point it was almost like it
was like, well, it doesn't really matter. I'm just chopping vegetables.
This is actually kind of soothing in this moment in time,
and chopping vegetables is kind of what this this is
my life at this point, Like this is kind of
like the this is what it takes, this is what's involved.
And you know, it was like I worked harder in

(08:44):
those last two weeks for that and put myself through
a level of suffering that I have never reached before, never,
And I've done some really hard things, including the first
time trying to go through the summer sprint program that
Derek put together. Like I was really overweight for that

(09:06):
and I legitimately ran myself into bilateral tibio fractures that
summer and kept running, kept running, you know what I mean,
Like I just kept running and for a couple more
weeks on it until I literally couldn't push off at
the starting line. I just fell over And it was
like Okay, I guess this is as far as that goes.

(09:27):
But that didn't even come close to those last two weeks.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
You know. It was like.

Speaker 5 (09:33):
All the MMA training and prep never came close to
those last two weeks. Like, you know, I reached a
point the Tuesday before that contest was actually the hardest
point of the whole thing, where I had you know,
had zero carbs in forty eight hours, and I had
to walk to the grocery store. And I as I

(09:56):
was walking to the grocery store, like my vision was
messed up, you know, like my whole perception was off,
like and I was just thinking to myself, like what
happens if I fall over right now, like into the
sidewalk street area, like cause I don't know, I've never
felt like this in my whole life. And it was like, well,

(10:16):
I guess somebody will probably come along and collect me,
like you know, And it was like this back and
forth going.

Speaker 4 (10:23):
You start going a bit, Derek, You literally start going
a bit psychotic, and and people don't under think a
lot of people don't understand, like when you start losing
the ability to think and move, I'll never forget. I
was on fifty seventh in lex one day and I
prep in I two or three more days of prep
for a cover I was doing. This was close to

(10:44):
eleven years ago when I actually did a true bodybuilding
prep with like dehydrating, and I went through my buddy
Michael Hearn helped him with that. Who's not a good
I love him, but he's not normal either. And I
remember stopping on Lexington and grabbing onto a sign and
just the next thing that I was I don't know
how long I was there for ten or fifteen minutes.
I just I had to stop. I had to catch

(11:05):
my breath. My head was going all over the place.
I had zero energy. I felt awful, awful, And I
got into the gym that I had a train at.
I remember going to the bathroom, walking out one of
the there's a bodybuild there and he's like, you look dry.

Speaker 3 (11:19):
What are you preparing for?

Speaker 4 (11:20):
And I'm like, I just didn't even answer. You know,
it is a ticket to you now, but it is
it's a much different world.

Speaker 2 (11:29):
Yeah, yeah, go ahead. Sorry.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
I just wanted to ask, like you you talked about
other athletic pursuits you've had, what is the difference, Like,
what is the is it is it the deprivation? Is
it the mental side? Is it the precision, like say
preparing for a fight or preparing to play, you know what,
to be a baseball player or a football player. Like,
how would you characterize the difference.

Speaker 5 (11:54):
I can't remember the book I was reading, but part
of the book went into the records that are in
breatholding and it was comparing the time of deep dive
breatholding versus There's another one where people literally are in
a shallow pool and they just stick their face in

(12:16):
the pool, and the time differential is gigantic. Like when
people are standing in a shallow pool and just put
their face in the water, they hold their breath for
much longer than the people that actually dive deep under
the water. Unfortunately, there's way more deaths in the group
that's in the shallow pool. Okay, And the thought is that, well,

(12:40):
you actually you don't have to really physically perform anything
when you're in the shallow pool. You're just bringing yourself
as far as your mind is willing to tolerate. In bodybuilding,
you don't really have to perform like an athletic feat necessarily. Like,
don't get me wrong, the posing is difficult, but you

(13:01):
could be kind of bad at posing and still win
if you're just more muscular and more shredded and suffered
more to get there. And so I think that's the difference.
Is like in Mma, you know, I had to get
to one hundred and fifty four and a half pounds,
which was horrible, but I couldn't be so depleted that

(13:22):
I couldn't fight, you know, same thing with Strongman. I
had to get under one hundred and seventy five pounds,
but it was for a two day contest, you know,
Nationals and Worlds was always two days. So it was like, well,
I have to have enough reserve. And I think the
brain is unconsciously monitoring that stuff, like with whereas with bodybuilding,

(13:42):
you literally go until there's no gas left in the tank.
All the other ones you got to hold some gas
in the tank. So it's just your willingness to see
how far you can go psychologically emotionally, you know, what
is the tolerance point that's gonna break? And like I

(14:04):
was thinking about it on that walk to the grocery store.
I was describing where I was like is.

Speaker 2 (14:08):
This really that bad? You know, like how bad is this?

Speaker 5 (14:11):
Like this is the worst I've ever felt in my life,
But is it really that bad? And I started thinking,
like the thought process is not really interesting. It was
like picturing slaves in Egypt, just like getting whipped, like
trying to move blocks for the.

Speaker 4 (14:26):
Great now nourished for yeah, yeah.

Speaker 5 (14:31):
People in concentration camps, you know, like like people being
brought over from Africa on that like.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Those boats where they're just stuffed in those.

Speaker 5 (14:40):
Tiny spaces for like you know, fifteen twenty days however
long it would take to go across the Atlantic. And
I was like, I don't think this is actually that bad,
Like this can't be that bad, you know.

Speaker 2 (14:53):
This is just the worst I've ever known.

Speaker 5 (14:56):
And that's a's And so that gave me like a
enough energy to take like another like forty five steps
that were pretty good, and then like the reality like no,
this is bad, Like this is really bad, Like I
can barely walk right now. I have like zero glycogen
in my body, like I don't. But it was this
back and forth between that like this is bad, this

(15:18):
isn't that bad, you know, And so a lot of
it just became like this like devil on one shoulder,
angel on the other one, and the internal voice, like
getting to know myself was the that was the real
deal part of it, where it's like, you know, hey,
it would be okay to have fifty grams of carbs today.

(15:41):
You can have a little bit extra in this meal.
And then the other voice would be like, that's not
the plan. That's not what you said you were going
to do. Are you going to follow what you said
you are going to do? Like who are you as
a person? Are you the person that gives up and
gives in? Or are you the person that does what
they say say they were going to do? And that

(16:03):
conversation just happened in my head over and over and
over and over again. And I don't think I ever
gave in to the shortcut.

Speaker 4 (16:15):
You know, thank god you didn't. Thank god you, Thank
god I'm I'm gonna cut in here. Thank god you didn't,
because you know as well as I do. Even if
you showed up on stage looking the same or better, Yeah,
that would have affected you. That giving in Sometimes are
giving in a lot of times, I'm a believer in.
Like you're going for a run and you say you're

(16:36):
gonna run three miles, five miles, like finish I don't
care if you're vomiting as you're running. Finish unless it's
physically impossible to finish, Like this is. These are lessons
that I feel like, this is that mental toughness piece,
and these are things that I think a lot of
people are lacking. This is never going to get easy
when you're ten years older, in your fifties or in

(16:57):
your sixties. The way you train, it's not it's not
gonna get eat maybe the exercises changed.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
You know as well as I do. You want to
be doing now.

Speaker 4 (17:05):
You want to be training the same way twenty years
from now than you are now. That's almost a goal
of yours in life. It's a goal of mine. Why
Like why, like why do you think? Like what do
you what has drawn you do this so much?

Speaker 5 (17:16):
It's I don't know, you know some part of me.
I'm actually watching the on Netflix starting five, and they
were showing like the guy that trained Jason Tatum, and
like he had very specific things that he said, like
I won't take you on as a young athlete or
as a client unless you love basketball, Like you have

(17:38):
to love this on a level that's hard to describe
because there's gonna be a lot of things that are
painful about this process, Like being an NBA talent is hard.
Like you're gonna be on the road, You're gonna be
away from your family, You're gonna face the media, You're
gonna deal with difficult teammates, difficult opponents, Like everything about.

Speaker 2 (17:59):
This is hard.

Speaker 5 (17:59):
And if you don't love basketball, you are not going
to be in us for a long time. And you know,
they got Lebron in it, they got Tatum, they got
these guys that have been doing this for a while
at a super high level. And a lot of them
are coming from these like single mom families, you know.
And I think that they faced a lot of adversity

(18:21):
as kids and probably had an outlet in sports. And
I know for me that is the case, you know
what I mean, Like I had a lot of difficult
stuff as a kid, family wise, and sports became the outlet,
the escape for me. Like and you know, just I
think back to that, and man, I remember growing up

(18:44):
and when it was nice weather, it was like I
loved it because it was time to play baseball and
there was nothing better for me than baseball.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
And like the fresh cut grass, this blue sky, the.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Smell, the feel of the ball, the glove, the bat,
like that contact of connecting with the ball, like the
feel of the ball coming off my fingertips. It was
like while I was on that field, man, like that
was perfection. And Massachusetts Cape Cod and for the most
of the year is cold and dark and wet, and

(19:16):
it's just like oh man, and I grew up in
the eighties. I can just remember Celtics Lakers, Celtics Lakers
and always watching that on the on the finals and
seeing La you know, there would be the Lakers girls
and the palm trees and the sunshine and it was
always like cold and dark and miserable here and like

(19:39):
just a tough situation and so like this idea of
sports and like this escape. And then as a kid
also like you know, ESPN used to have those fitness
shows on and I used to watch those right after.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
Sports Dude Glad and Hawaii.

Speaker 5 (20:00):
You know, you had body shaping that was also in Hawaii,
and it was like, you know, it was an escape
to me. I think like almost this like idea that hey,
if I train and push myself, like these are the
people associated with this and they live in these amazing
places and there's like beautiful girls, and they're all fun

(20:21):
and they all seem to have great energy, and that's
the that's the end point for me, like this escape
from what I understand is reality. And so I really
do think that got into my psychology quite a bit.
And really I got positive feedback as from sports and
from training when I was a kid. You know, that

(20:43):
was like one of the only places I got positive
feedback in my life.

Speaker 4 (20:48):
It's also one of the only things I feel like
when I hear you speak about this, it's something that
you can There's so many things in life path that
we can't control, right, you know, It's just things like
like I'll never forget. When I was a young kid,
my father put a newspaper clipping he would put every
morning i'd wake up. My dad worked in catering, so

(21:09):
he'd be up super late at night and he wouldn't
get home till two three in the morning, and he
had like Mondays and Tuesdays off. But you know, four
or five nights mornings a week, I would wake up
and there would be newsday articles on my counter, like
seventeen year old dies in drunk driving accident. Right, Ken
Griffy Junior strikes out four times in a game, right,

(21:32):
and and there's so many things that like and I
remember reading these stories and you know, this seventeen year
old was hit by you know, by a drunk driver
out of his control. Right, Griffy Junior probably one of
the best hitters I've seen in the last thirty years.
I mean, arguably maybe three, four, five, top five whatever
it is, striking out three or four times in a game.

Speaker 3 (21:52):
I think it was four.

Speaker 4 (21:52):
I mean seriously, like, there's just some this what you're
talking about right now. I think part of the reason
why you of it so much is because you know
what you put into it is not only what you're
going to get out of it, you know here, but
what you're going to get out of it here. You
not giving in and getting those fifty extra grammar carbs
showed you you're on another level. And I think the

(22:14):
way that you live that's really important.

Speaker 6 (22:16):
Yeah, it's I think that what got me into it
is not the same thing that's keeping me into it, right,
you know, I think that I was I was searching
for anything positive in my life as a kid, anything,
and you know, I didn't really have a father, so
a lot of.

Speaker 5 (22:36):
Times coaches became sort of this surrogate father thing, and man,
I always wanted to like make these guys impressed and proud,
so like you know, and coaches are usually the guys
that were the gym rats themselves, you know what I mean,
they value that. So they really valued me in the
effort I would put into everything, and like, I just

(22:57):
felt that was always something where it was like I
gained that respect from people that I respected and wanted
in my life from trying hard, training hard, paying attention
to the little details, focus, all of those little things
were like you know, coaches loved me. And it was because,
like I think there was a lot of this need

(23:18):
that I had, Like I always look at it, why
does anyone do anything because they need to desperately, you know,
like otherwise it just doesn't happen.

Speaker 2 (23:28):
You know.

Speaker 5 (23:28):
I've always believed in pressure and time constraints and needs
and if you need it, man, you'll you'll move mountains
to get something. So I think that got me into it.
And I think also a lot of spite and anger
in the beginning, you know, like I always felt like, look, man,
I'm as smart as any other guy, I'm as athletic

(23:52):
as any other guy growing up. But like, for whatever reason,
I always feel like I'm not part of the in group.
I'm not part of the crowd. I'm not And like
I don't have a good house, I don't have a father,
I don't have any of these things that you've got.
But when I see your ass on the field, I'm
gonna punish you the whole time. I'm gonna make you
wish you never stepped in between these lines, because while

(24:14):
we're here, there's you don't have any advantages compared to me.
Outside of this, you're gonna have every advantage. But in here,
this is, this is where we're equals, dude. And uh
so I think that, like you know, I've consistently been
someone where if I get upset about something, I'll go
on an absolute mission to like you know, the person

(24:38):
might not even know I'm on a vendetta against them,
but in my head, I'm thinking to myself, I'm gonna
fucking show this person right, even if it takes five
years of me being in the dark and working on something.
By the end of this, like, I'm gonna leave a
mark and they're gonna know they never should have said
that about me. They never should have challenged me. So
I think a lot of that in my history. But

(25:01):
where it has changed has been what you're talking about,
the personal upside that I've experienced of following through on
the hard things that caused me to reach this conflict
point and choosing the harder path. And when I do that,

(25:24):
my self esteem grows, you know, my integrity grows, my
personal accountability grows. And what I've come to learn in
life is that that is the greatest gift that I've
personally come to know and experience. You know, no money
has ever beaten that, No anything, Like when I actually
know that, like, that was hard as hell, and I

(25:45):
did it and it took everything in me to step
up and do something that's more challenging than I've ever
done before. God, that is the best personal feeling I've
ever had.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
So now now that you've invested this energy, like emotional energy,
physical energy, all this time into this pursuit, does it
make it harder to now go? Can I do something else?
Can I leave this? Or do you have to keep pushing?
Like it's like the person who runs a marathon, Like, hey,
run a marathon, Well, now I want to get sub

(26:19):
three hours? Now I want to get whatever. Do you
feel that way like I got to keep pushing this
or do you feel like you could do something else
and maybe take those lessons and apply to something else,
Like let's use Arnold Schwartzenegger as an example, and like
let's go into acting or politics or how do you
see this going from here?

Speaker 2 (26:38):
I'm gonna push this thing way further.

Speaker 3 (26:40):
You know.

Speaker 5 (26:42):
It's like I loved the sprint training, but I also
looked forward and I was like, how far can I
really go? Like I'm a forty year old five six
white guy, you know, you know that's not exactly descriptive
of like best case scenario.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
For being really really good at this particular endeavor. You know.

Speaker 5 (27:03):
So with this with bodybuilding, though, I actually like it's
funny because I did the sprint training. I followed a diet,
and after a couple of years of doing that, I
looked at myself and I was like, holy shit, I
look better than I've ever looked in my entire life.
I kind of looked like I could step on stage
like what the hell is this even? And it was

(27:26):
sort of like, I think that's probably a smarter approach
if I actually want to compete in something like I've
ended over here at this place that I didn't really
intend to. I you know, I'm definitely not going to
beat anybody that's actually fast in a race, but I
probably could if I focus in this other area get

(27:48):
pretty far, you know, like let me see what I
can actually do. And I do believe in like cool stories,
you know, And I shared with Don what I actually
want to do, and I try not to vocalize it
too much because I do believe that like sometimes vocalizing
very particular goals takes away some of the magic of them,

(28:10):
you know, Like it's almost like I want to keep
this thing like close to my heart for me. But yeah,
I've got like a I got into this with a
seven year plan of starting at forty three and thinking like, boy,
I'll tell you, if I can pull this off at fifty,
that's a hell of a story. It's a hell of

(28:31):
a story for me, it's a hell of a story
for anybody. And you know, I think it.

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Would be.

Speaker 5 (28:38):
Something that would get me, not just get me out
of bed, something that would really drive me in life,
and probably a million secondary things that I never even
thought about would will also kind of come along with
that ride. You know, just being on a crazy mission
is the coolest thing I can picture at this point

(28:59):
in my life.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
But I mean also going from where you were, right,
because you were always you're always a great athlete, You're
always crazy strong, and you always had like an engine, right,
Like I think that was something that you would agree
that something you always kind of had. You had that
motor to be able to pick up and go and
repeat and go and repeat.

Speaker 3 (29:18):
But I think it's fascinating to see literally what a
one eighty you made.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
You know, like you you were your body comp at
one point, I mean your body's yeah, it wasn't.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
I mean, listen you.

Speaker 4 (29:33):
But again, that engine was there, so I think everyone
and you had muscle, so everyone had that level of
respect for you, and you had obviously brains right, But
to see someone to see someone who has that and
taking their body from like somewhat of a power lifter,
strong man body, I think.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
It's fair to say it was I was just fat.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
And you said that I didn't, but now I'm saying
it now to get on stage with you and and
and say, holy shit, like you know, is he going
to be competing in the Masters at the Olympia, like
you start now seventy eight, nine years ago.

Speaker 3 (30:07):
If you told me that, I'd be like, does that
even want of Pat's focuses? I don't think is he
ever gonna get there? I don't know.

Speaker 4 (30:13):
It's interesting I always tell people because they'll last me
is it eighty percent nutrition? Is it twenty percent training?
And my answer is it's one hundred percent mental. Yeah,
I'm just one of these people. Like they're like, kind
of give me a look. I'm like, every it's one
hundred percent mental. I'm just one of these believers that
I understand statistically things are going.

Speaker 3 (30:33):
To decline or they could. Yeah, my goal is to
fight it. And my goal is to push. And Michael like,
I'm forty seven right now, so going to be forty eight.
I'm in.

Speaker 4 (30:43):
I'm in like a like a serious I'm gonna I'm
gonna surplus. You never heard me say that. I'm in
a big time I'm in a big time.

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Arms right now.

Speaker 3 (30:50):
I'm going to get there.

Speaker 4 (30:51):
I'm in a big time you know, I'm in a
big time strength phase. Like I'm just the goal right
now is specific get stronger, try and maintain lean this
while putting size on and like it's it's hard.

Speaker 3 (31:03):
Man. Like I went to bed the.

Speaker 4 (31:04):
Other night I was two nineteen, and I'm like, holy shit,
this is the biggest I've been since college. And I
woke up the next morning and I was too thirteen
point eight. And then you're like, fuck, I.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Think you're making progress.

Speaker 4 (31:16):
And then you wake up, you use the bathroom, and
you're like, oh my god, I lost you know, six
pounds in my sleep.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
This is easy, Like this is but there's so many
lines I stole from you.

Speaker 4 (31:28):
One of them I use every week and I wanted
you to talk about nutrition a bit.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
It's it's all math. This is only math.

Speaker 4 (31:36):
Like people are, oh, I'm not hitting my macros and
I'm getting to the evening and I'm like one hundred
grams of protein off. I'm like, guys, it's just math.
I'm sorry, it's just math. It's I stole that from you.
But you're gonna be ay grams of carbohydrates. You're eating
five times a day, that's forty grams of meal. If
you're reading four times a day, it's fifty grams of meal.
It's just math. So like I would imagine that you

(31:57):
think the nutrition piece I almost feel like, can you
the training piece you and I love and it's like,
all right, we push ourselves hard, Like that's enjoyable, Right,
there's a yes. Attrition piece, do you do you agree?
Is probably the most difficult.

Speaker 5 (32:11):
A way more difficult than training, not even close.

Speaker 2 (32:15):
It's not even close.

Speaker 5 (32:18):
Yeah, And it's like it's it's there's just a million
little habits that have to get built in over like
superimposed on top of each other, and then you have
to take those habits and push them through some really
hard points where there's a lot of friction, and if
you do that for a long time, you will be

(32:40):
shocked at the results. But in terms of the difficulty,
training is fun. Training is a break. It is great.
I love to train. It's amazing. It's my favorite time
of the day. The slog of nutrition is the by
far the hardest.

Speaker 4 (33:00):
Yeah, but what were some of the things, Like I
feel like nutrition is an evolution, right, you know, someone
was asking me about it.

Speaker 3 (33:07):
What did you start? I told them, well, you were sixteen.
What were you doing? Like, oh, I heard one day
you need a protein for muscles grow. This is sixteen,
So what did you do?

Speaker 4 (33:13):
I remember going to Durramo's pizza and ordering meatballs and pasta. Yes,
and I know where we started eating egg whites and
then we find out, well, the yolk's good, and it's
like there was just this progression, not in the long term,
in the short term, Like you've been, always been very knowledgeable.
I'm curious to hear in the last three years. Were
there things that you had to really put yourself in

(33:33):
check with or did you ever find yourself deviating in
a certain direction that you realized.

Speaker 3 (33:39):
Wasn't the best thing for you or you know, talk
to me about that.

Speaker 5 (33:42):
Oh, you know, I mean my like nutrition for me
goes back to probably a very similar time as what
you're talking about, the beginnings, like you know, like starting
to lift weights around fourteen fifteen, looking at the athletes
that I wanted to be, like the pro baseball players
of the mid nineties, where it's like, I clearly have

(34:03):
to be jacked or I will not be in the
major leagues. Unbeknownst to me, I didn't. I just didn't know.
But you know, so it was like, all right, well,
and that point was you know, the ESPN shows and
also like bodybuilding magazines that was the only source of information.

(34:24):
So yeah, it was like protein, protein, protein, and like
spaghetti was sort of the thing, and like I used
to just cook the whole box of spaghetti and eat
that for dinner, you know. And and I worked summer
jobs on Cape Cod, so like a lot of the
like miniature golf course and then like batting Cage's bumper

(34:46):
boat sort.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
Of a deal.

Speaker 5 (34:47):
But we also had the cape Cod League there, and
we would have the cape Cod League players. Part of
their deal was they lived with the host family and
they worked a job during the day. So I worked
with these guys, you know what I mean. Like it
would be me at like fifteen, sitting next to some
dude that was in the Cape Wig that was like

(35:07):
a twenty two year old or something like that. They
you know, just picking their brain about baseball. And like
these guys were jack too, Like they were all jacked.
They got all the girls. They you know, they were
like local superstars that rolled into town every summer. And
it was like, Okay, well there's the template for what

(35:29):
I need to be and hanging out like just eating
lunch and like hearing what they're going to order and like, oh,
I'm going to order the same thing. Yeah, So you know,
I like I think that those dudes, Like, we had
a bunch of restaurants around us.

Speaker 2 (35:42):
We had A and W.

Speaker 5 (35:44):
We had a place called George's Pizza, We had seafood Sam's,
and that was like kind of the trio, all right.
So it was like, for like, the one dude would
order spaghetti and meatballs and a small pepperoni pizza for
one meal. So I ordered spaghetti, meatballs, and a pepperoni
pizza for one meal. I'd forced that all of that

(36:06):
food down. Or it was the triple cheeseburger from ANW
with the curly fries with the chili and cheese on it, okay,
And I mean if that guy's eating.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
It, I'm eating it.

Speaker 2 (36:19):
You know. Like those are some of the early experiences.
And then fast forward to mixed martial arts.

Speaker 5 (36:27):
You know, that's when I really had to learn, like
to diet down for something to make weight. And I
trained with a lot of guys that were very good
fighters that fought in the UFC. And these guys were animals.
This was late nineties, early two thousands. The only advice
was don't eat carbs. That's it, you know. So it

(36:51):
was like I ate a tuna, fish with salad with
Greek dressing for three meals a day.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
And that was it. And you can say right or wrong.

Speaker 5 (37:02):
I always made weight and I trained seven days a week,
and I tried to train like these guys were nuts,
you know what I mean. They would get up and
run at the Harvard Stadium at six am, five times
a week, and they would run all the bleachers. They
would run up the bolts and come down the bolts

(37:24):
and do that whole thing.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
And that's a.

Speaker 5 (37:26):
Big stadium and it would take about an hour and
a half to run the bleachers and then they would
go to work all day and then we would meet
up and train after.

Speaker 2 (37:36):
Work after that for like two hours of training and
on no carbs. Like these guys just didn't need carbs,
so I didn't need carbs, you know.

Speaker 5 (37:45):
Fast forward to Strongman, where again it was like trying
to make weight. And at that point, like I actually
listened to a ton of Rob Wolf. I don't know
if you've ever really like gotten into his stuff or
listen to him, but he is like super smart PhD guy,
that's like the paleo diet PhD dude, and so he

(38:07):
is very convincing He's got a lot of great information.
I went pure Paleo at that time, so it was
just like sweet potatoes for like pretty much every meal, meat,
like the whole thing, you know. And then like after
strong Man, like I moved to New York and strong
Man kind of ended, and then I got married and

(38:31):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (38:31):
Really care about nutrition.

Speaker 5 (38:33):
I was just sort of like lifting and eating and
having a good time. And that led me to just
reaching like two hundred and thirty five pounds of like fluff,
and yeah, that was where it was. Like I started
seeing online, like I remember the first time I saw
someone comment on one of my posts and call me

(38:55):
fat Davidson. And I remember going to work and Mark
goes busting my balls about how fat I was getting,
and some of the other guys like Seth likes, you know,
he'll get in there, He'll he'll throw some want two's.
All those dudes, Luke Vinnie Vinnie started calling me Patty Mayonnaise.
And I was like, these guys are killing me, but

(39:17):
you know what, like I'm I'm glad they did. They
were just like being real with me. They were like, dude,
you're mine.

Speaker 3 (39:24):
They puts you on a trajectory, you know.

Speaker 5 (39:27):
And I was like, guys, you have no idea. I
will get in better shape than every single one of you.
I've been in better shape than every single one of
you at a certain points in my life, and I
will do it again. And and I remember them laughing
at me over that, and I was like, you guys
have no idea who you're talking to, no idea like

(39:48):
watch watch And uh So I started on the RP
diet right around the time when COVID was starting.

Speaker 2 (39:57):
Yeah, that was.

Speaker 5 (39:58):
The first time I ever met measured anything, ever, weighed
food ever, like had a macro based approach. That was
the most eye opening thing for me of anything weighing stuff.
And like I had at that point known for me,
training is just a big spreadsheet. How many yards are
you running at a certain velocity, how much load are

(40:20):
you moving, blah blah blah. It's just a big Excel
sheet in the sky to me. And then it was like, oh, shocker.
Food is the same thing. It's just a big Excel sheet.
And that Excel sheet, over time pushes you in directions
and and yeah, I read the Renaissance Puriitization Diet two

(40:42):
point zero book and it's.

Speaker 2 (40:44):
Such a good book. And Mike Isratel's nutrition information is
so clear.

Speaker 3 (40:53):
He's very he's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
And that's what I mean.

Speaker 5 (40:56):
Like, I literally just followed the RP diet for like,
I think three years and landed in a place of
like kind of training, a lot of sprint training that
I learned from Derek and following the RP diet, And
I looked at myself and I was like, I'm in
the best shape of my entire life. Like I didn't

(41:17):
even and it wasn't as hard as all the hard
things that I had done before in terms of paleo
or no carb stuff as a teenager trying to make
weight for strong for uh mixed martial arts.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
You know. But I will say, when you take the
measured macro approach and then drive it to its extremes
with bodybuilding, that's you know, that's where the rubber really
meets the road, you know, Like, I don't think anybody
in bodybuilding is using any other approach than measuring, you know,
with macros and food scales.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
You know, Well you went there.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
I'm glad you actually brought that up that it was
ironically my what I was going to try and segue say,
there's a lot of conflicting advice out there nowadays. You know,
you're looking at the twenty five year old woman who's
always had a great physique and she's talking about intuitive eating, right,
and then you have another woman right next to her
who weighs, you know, over three hundred pounds, and she's like, well,

(42:16):
I'm intuitively eating and you know I can't seem to.
It's the truth, though, I'm I'm a bit tired of
it because Macros, you know, Macros gets shit on them
a lot. And my attitude is this is completely removing
any guesswork.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
If you're six foot three and two hundred and twenty.

Speaker 4 (42:35):
Five pounds and you walk around all the time at
six percent body fat and you haven't been measuring, and
you are like, yeah, damn man, I'm in a good place,
and knock yourself out for all. I'm not telling you
you need to do anything else. But for the majority
of our population out there who are like they really
don't know, they're like, well, I eat healthy. I'm like,
you eat healthy, but let's let's add up like how

(42:55):
much protein, how much carbs, how much fat, how much fiber?

Speaker 3 (42:58):
Right, Like, no, one's ever.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
Talking you know, no one's talking about fiber, And when
they start looking at these numbers, then they're I mean
ninety nine percent of the time.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
You know it, they're like, well, wow, I didn't.

Speaker 4 (43:07):
Realize I was that far off, And it's it was
eye opening to you.

Speaker 3 (43:12):
You know.

Speaker 5 (43:12):
I love when Lane Norton talks about it from the
perspective of like finances, where he's like, look like, uh yeah,
I get the people get all hung up on weighing
their food and measuring things and counting macros or calories,
But like, what if you're just looking at your own
personal finances or your business finances, are you not going
to like put it all down and figure out where

(43:35):
your expenses are and where your income is and compare,
because that's going to tell you whether or not you're
gaining or losing money. I guess you could not do
that and just sort of be like, oh, well, how
much money do I have? I should choy, oh I've
got a lot of money, cool, or like oh no,
I'm totally broke, but like you're probably better off having

(43:56):
some accounting of your finances. And it's literally no different
with food, like it is ultimately like the end result
is calories in, calories out. You're gaining, your losing, your
staying the same. And yeah, there's measuring errors. There's gonna
be measuring errors with your finances too, Like you're gonna
miss some things.

Speaker 2 (44:16):
But overall, you're probably.

Speaker 5 (44:18):
Going to be more likely to go in the financial
direction that you want to go in if you're taking
account of it and putting it down on a spreadsheet,
measuring it.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
And you're probably more likely to.

Speaker 5 (44:31):
Have the body comp results that you want if you
start may weighing it and measuring it and everything else.
And like I almost think of it, like, hey, if
I went into the gym and I just like like
had a blindfold on and grabbed random dumbbells and start
moving them, I could get some kind of a response.

(44:51):
But I'd probably be better off if I open my
eyes and actually picked up the ones that I know
what they weigh and impair the number of reps that
I got last time with those ones to the number
I get this time, and I see the direction that
I'm going and the other like the last thing I
think Mike is Retel said this. It might have been

(45:12):
Laying Norton or Mike is Ertel. So those guys are
both amazing. They both say a ton of incredible things
around around food. But it was like, whether you know
it or not, you are measuring your food in some way,
shape or form. A lot of the times it's literally
just your eyeballs comparing how much food is on the
plate compared to the size of the plate. And you

(45:34):
might like, that is a measurement. You're evaluating how much
is there. It's just that it's not as accurate a
measurement tool as a scale. So we're all measuring it.
People will tell it to you in the way that
they speak, Oh, I had a lot of this thing. Yeah, yeah,

(45:54):
So it's always like some level of evaluating quantity. It's
just what's the precision of your measuring tool.

Speaker 4 (46:03):
I think it's what throws a lot of people off too,
is you know, they might be eating a lot of
the right stuff, but when they start getting inconsistent with tracking.

Speaker 3 (46:14):
You see this happen with I see it having so
many people.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
The food doesn't change right, like we're all gonna very
rarely is someone going to be living like a healthy
lifestyle and then suddenly start eating pizza three times a day.
It's just like you feel good as what you are
used to doing, YadA, YadA, YadA. What I've noticed though,
is those meals start coming out a Tuesday, a Friday,
a Sunday, and maybe the frequency of five times goes

(46:37):
to three times. And then when you add up the
calories over time and you factor in that average, you
start seeing that total number starts dropping well below your
total daily energy expenditure. And then you know, people wonder
why energy's not there. Sleep's getting affected a bit, myora
is reading wrong, My resiliency category is dropping. Well, what

(47:00):
if you trained with nutrition nothing, I eat the same foods.
I'm like, wait a second, it's not like, are.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
You measuring every day well? Are you?

Speaker 4 (47:09):
Are you keeping up the frequency from your good days well?

Speaker 3 (47:13):
And then like the truth comes out.

Speaker 4 (47:14):
And then when you peel back the layers and you
show it to them, even people that are advanced, I'm like.

Speaker 3 (47:19):
You know better, and they're like, holy shit, it's just
a reminder. You got to stay on this stuff, you know.

Speaker 5 (47:25):
I think bodybuilding points this out really effectively. And you
know a guy that I follow that I get a
tremendous amount of great info from is John Jewett and
he's got his J three U University, Like I can't
wait to actually dive into like his coursework because just
the free stuff he puts out on social media is great.

(47:45):
But you know, I've gained like a really good framework
for approaching the different phases of bodybuilding. And people think
that there's just gaining and losing, and that's really not
the case. Like the heart, like the most obvious is
the gaining and the losing. The losing is the prep
diet and like just dieting yourself down to as lean

(48:07):
as you can, get, as dry as you can get
stage ready, you know, look like an anatomy chart. And
the gaining is like the true off season where yeah,
you're looking to put on as much muscle tissue as possible.
But really there's kind of these like no man Land
zones as well, and I'm in one right now, which

(48:28):
is the post show period, which is usually like about
six to nine weeks give or take after the show,
where you know you're kind of in this place where
you've accumulated so much fatigue and stress during prep that
it's probably not the best time to just aggressively try

(48:51):
to add muscle tissue, you know, like the other thing
is that psychologically you're gonna want eat your face off
because you've been deprived of food. You're so hungry, and
like if you look at semi starvation diet data and research,
like people eat like crazy after they've been deprived severely

(49:14):
of food. High level body building in this time is
restraint is the key in this period of time. You know,
you only really want to be shooting for about a
pound of weight gain per week after the show for
the first like eight weeks. Okay, it's really hard to do.

(49:37):
That's hard, it's unbelievably hard. Otherwise, but if you if
you just like gorge, you blow up, you swell up,
you get all this fluid retention no matter what, Like
there's always a ratio of how much of your surplus
is gonna go towards muscle, how much is gonna go
towards fat, it's gonna be too much of a surplus.

(49:59):
Like first you got you just got used to a
severely low calorie diet, and people all of a sudden
bomb and eat and eat and eat right after the show,
and it's like it's it's the same thing as like
training load management, where it's like people go from a
trough to this spike, and that's where injuries happen with,
you know, overused things. It's the same thing here, like

(50:21):
you've been in a nutrition trough and then all of
a sudden you go into this ridiculous spike and the
transition is way too aggressive, way too hard. It's just
like good periodization with coaching. You don't want abrupt rough transitions.
You want it to be smooth and fluid and seamless

(50:43):
and almost like the athlete doesn't notice that anything has changed. So, man,
this is the hard part. This is really the super
super hard part of I know you're hungry. I know
all you want to do is eat your face off.
There's no show coming up anytime soon. And but please,
like keep all the good habits that you just had.

(51:03):
You know, you were just walking fifteen thousand steps a day,
you were doing cardio for an hour a day, you
were lifting weights, you were super focused on a great diet.
Vegetables were in there every meal, fruit was in there,
like all of the boxes that you know are great
for you. We're being checked consistently every single day. Do

(51:26):
not go off the rails. Do not try to, you know,
gain all of your off season weight in one day.
So where I'm going with this is, if you've gone
through a bodybuilding prep, you're probably a super disciplined person.
You're somebody that cares to the highest degree and consistently.
The biggest mistake that bodybuilding and physique athletes make is

(51:48):
they go off the rails right after the prep, right
after the contest, off the rails because the emotion and
the food drive and the difficulties of dealing with deprivation
overwhelm you and you just can't and then you make
you have the one little thing and the damn breaks

(52:08):
and the flood comes in. So if you're talking about
the most disciplined population around food you can find doing that,
what do you think is going to happen for regular people?

Speaker 4 (52:19):
Yeah, and I think most regular people aren't under I'm
sure listening and not understanding, is that the reason why
you got to be so careful is because you weren't
a deficit and you were so dry on stage and
so depleted.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
I saw one of my old bosses back in two thousand,
two thousand and one.

Speaker 4 (52:36):
He competed and I think the NPC Easterns won that
show and he ended up I think in thirty six hours.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
You're gonna laugh.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
And it was a real number. But he gained over
thirty pounds back. Oh, he went to cheesecake factory and
he literally I think he was eating lunch and I
think he sat there from lunch to dinner, just eating,
and he got himself sick. And it's just no, That's
why a lot of people listening right now, that's what
Pat's referring to.

Speaker 3 (53:02):
It's so easy.

Speaker 4 (53:04):
Now, you know, to just start eating and start drawing
back in that water and and and then the next thing,
you know, he's going to look like a blowfish. Pat,
there's a I mean, we can continue this for five hours,
but I mean, give me a favor. What's next for you?
And where can people find you? Because I think everyone
listening I want them to follow you and watch your
journey because I know you're going to do big things.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
Yeah. Man, Well, I am part of a project starting
up a new gym in the city. Super excited about it.

Speaker 5 (53:33):
You know, it's going to be on fifty seventh in
Madison and kind of like a longevity focus, So very
cool with like people like Peter Atilla in the medical community.
Gabrielle Lyon like, you know, having this focus coming from
the medical world on realizing that aerobic fitness, muscular fitness,

(53:57):
muscular strength, how critically important this is from a health perspective,
from a mortality and morbidity perspective, from a quality of
life perspective. I mean, this is just the beginning of
like that medical model three point zero drive. And you know,
so I'm very excited about what we're planning on doing

(54:18):
there and like to be great equipment, great staff, great group,
And I'm just like kind of pumped to be back
in the in person world as well. Like I've been
away from it for for over three years now, New
York City fitness scene, and it took something pretty special

(54:39):
to drag me back in. So that that is that's
gonna be a big part of my life coming up.
And you know, but I'm gonna be really driving the
bodybuilding competition part as well. Like i I've I kind
of forgot how much I like competing. You know, like
it's one thing to kind of ca pete with your

(55:00):
buddies and local stuff, but like this is like a real,
you know, internationally sanctioned competition environment where there's people from
all over the world that are training their asses off nutrition,
pushing that as hard as they can go. Like, you know,
you go to a bodybuilding show and every single other

(55:23):
competitor has just pushed themselves to their absolute limit. You're
up against your limit, is against their limit, and when
you're there, you see it and it's like, boy, like
these these people went all in on this and if
I'm gonna win, holy crap, Like that guy just suffered

(55:46):
for months to get here, Like damn, this is hard stuff,
Like it's it's not easy, but that makes it even
that much better. So I'm gonna I'm gonna keep pushing
that as far as it can go. I feel like
I'm just scratching the surface of it right now, and
I'm excited about that. So work bodybuilding competition. You know,

(56:08):
I'm really enjoying being a father, you know, I really
love that part of my life. And uh, just seeing
my son kind of develop and grow and getting to
know him better and better is is just a really
that is becoming so much more important to me constantly.

Speaker 2 (56:25):
So yeah, those are those are really the big three.

Speaker 3 (56:29):
Those are things. So social handles, where can people find
you online? Website?

Speaker 2 (56:33):
What do you find everything is going through my Instagram,
which is at doctor Pat Davidson Dr Period Pat Davidson,
Easy Easy.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
Peasy Palsy in the city.

Speaker 3 (56:45):
I mean, listen, we got the holidays coming up. I
expect you and Marcos out here a little work.

Speaker 5 (56:49):
Yeah, man, I'm gonna I'm gonna hit you up. I'm
gonna get out to the barn one of these next
couple of weeks, probably probably after Christmas, since there's like
such a condensed period between Thanksgiving Christmas this year, the.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
Week and a half of Christmas already, we're like, this
is pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, I got a lot to do. I got a
lot to do before then.

Speaker 4 (57:09):
All right, Well, listen, brother Derek, thank you Pat as always, man,
you're the best.

Speaker 3 (57:14):
It's just always it's always great connecting with you, brother.

Speaker 2 (57:16):
Thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (57:18):
Great stuff that

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Episode 172 - Dr. Pat Davidson: Embracing the Competitive Bodybuilder Mindset

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode 172 - Dr. Pat Davidson: Embracing the Competitive Bodybuilder Mindset