July 17, 2025 • 28 mins
Breaking Cycles, Finding Clarity, and Healing Through Generations On this compelling episode of Daily Spark TV, Dr. Angela Chester sits down with author James Maiwurm to explore the layered truths in his book, Inheritance of Crises and Dysfunction, a thought-provoking look at generational patterns, leadership, and the long shadow of unresolved history.
Together, they unpack how dysfunction -- whether in families, institutions, or culture can be passed down like heirlooms, and what it takes to recognize, interrupt, and heal those inherited crises. James shares personal stories and professional insight with honesty and hope, reminding us that awareness is the first step toward legacy-shifting transformation.
🗝️ If you’ve ever wondered:
• Why do certain patterns seem to repeat in your life
• How leadership and dysfunction intersect
• What healing looks like when the past is still present
This conversation is for you. This episode invites you to reflect, reclaim, and rewrite the narrative for the next generation.
Together, they unpack how dysfunction -- whether in families, institutions, or culture can be passed down like heirlooms, and what it takes to recognize, interrupt, and heal those inherited crises. James shares personal stories and professional insight with honesty and hope, reminding us that awareness is the first step toward legacy-shifting transformation.
🗝️ If you’ve ever wondered:
• Why do certain patterns seem to repeat in your life
• How leadership and dysfunction intersect
• What healing looks like when the past is still present
This conversation is for you. This episode invites you to reflect, reclaim, and rewrite the narrative for the next generation.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Hello everyone, and thank you so much for joining me
for Daily Spark with Doctor Angelo. I'm your host, Doctor Angela.
But Chester, you guys know who I am, and you
know what I like to do on my show, Say
it with me. I want to enlighten, inspire, and empower
you to become your best self.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Scripture reminds us that the tongue is a small thing
that makes grand speeches, but a tiny spark can set
a great forest on fire. And that's what we want
to do today. We want to get you fired up
about my guest. I'll be spending time today with James
Magram and we'll be talking about his book, Inheritance of
(00:48):
Crises and Dysfunction. So you know what I'm gonna tell
you to do. Go on, get comfy, get cozy, get
your coffee or get your tea because we are about
to get started. Hello. Hello, Thank you so much for
joining me here on daily' Spark with Doctor Angela.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello, Doctor Angela. We'll glad to be here.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Jim My Worm absolutely absolutely now before we get started
talking about your book, and I cannot wait to hear
more about it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We do have a little bit of Southern tradition here
and that is we want to introduce you to perhaps
those few folks out there that may be unfamiliar with
you and your work. So first question, tell us a
little bit about yourself. What makes you you.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, what makes me me?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Me?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Makes me me? That's a good question. I said a
lot of things. It's the opportunity to grow up in
the middle of nowhere in the state of Ohio, but
to become acquainted with and friends of and people who
I really trust in the the Midwestern situation that I
think is all benefit to the country.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
As a whole.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I'm a lawyer for thirty plus years, practicing in Cleveland,
Ohio and Washington, d C. For the most part, I'm
a fellow who is concerned about the future of our
country and the place that we need to play in
the role in the world as a country and not
as not as political parties, but as a country and
(02:26):
as citizens who care about the future. And I want
to have something to look back on and say, those
of us who are in the middle of the political
spectrum made a difference at a time when it needed
to be made. I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I love that answer. Now, being an author, is that
something that you've always wanted to do, or was perhaps
this a way for you to share your knowledge, to
share your position you're like who you are as a
person in today's world.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I would say it was.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
The reason for my doing this is really going into
where I am in the by stage of life. I'm
older than I was quite a while ago. That normally
happens during life, but I got older in the sense
that I started worrying about the future. When I say
the future, I'm not worried about my future, because it's
(03:25):
my future, is what it is at this point. But
you know, I worry about my children and my grandchildren,
who are great people and I'm sure will grow up
to great people. And I worry about their friends and
our relatives around the world. And I really want to
be doing something that has some lasting value in terms
of ability to affect things in a modest way, but
(03:48):
yet in a way that stands out for some reason
or another. And you know, five years ago, I was
looking I was on the edge of retirement. I wanted
to continue to practic his law, but it was time
to go away from that, and I started doing more
thinking about, you know, how can I achieve some of
the goals that I just referred to and I decided
(04:11):
to try to write a book, and I had never
done that before, and I found out that it's a
little more interesting and challenging than I thought it might be.
And there was a time during the process of writing
the book that I actually gave it up and threw
it all in the closet and said, you know, this
is not working that well, this is not something I
want to do.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
But I came back to.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It with more, you might say, and I'm pleased with
the result. And I'm pleased with the result as it
applies to the nation and the world where we are today,
because if I had a chance to stand on a
stand on a platform and you know, hey, you know,
listen to this, because we all need to think about
these things. And I'm not here to preach much right
(04:55):
or wrong. I'm here to say we all need a process,
and we all need the care, and we all need
to be reasonab about achieving reasonable goals in a reasonable
way in an unreasonable state of life.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Mm hmmmmm. Now, the title of your book. I have
interviewed lots of authors that say, oh, doctor Angela, the
title just came to me one day out of the blue,
and I was able to really write around the title.
Others have said I called this book ten different things
(05:28):
before we finally settled on the title that is presented
to the world. How did the title come to you?
What's the story there?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, the story there is not too exciting. I started.
I started.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I've been through several different titles, and I started out
with one that was only four words long, which was
a benefit in some respects.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
But I wanted the.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Title to reflect the goals of the book, and which
is to bring people together as opposed to spread people apart.
And that means financially, politically, religiously, whatever it happens to be.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And so that was the goal.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And when I looked around the world, you can see
that we are really beginning to generate an inheritance of
what are indeed crises and what is indeed dysfunction. And
so that being some of the goals of the of
(06:32):
the of the radio or the book or the movie,
whatever you happen to be doing in terms of communication,
that was sort of a guidance to the title. Now,
you know, I know the title is too long. I
get that, I get it, But you know, I just
have to ask listeners to get over it and say,
you know, there's a reason for the title, and it's
(06:52):
still pretty applicable in today's world as it was five
years ago when I started thinking about this. See, you
should have seen the first couple of verses. Though it
was a couple of the first couple of versions of
the title were not well, they wouldn't have turned you
over too much, that's for sure. So it's better than
it was.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I love it. I love it, and you know, I
ask some of these questions because for our aspiring authors,
they need to know that they're not the only ones that's,
you know, wrestling with a particular issue. Sometimes it's writer's block,
or it's deciding on which title do you want to
you know, give this work that you've poured into, or
(07:37):
you know, do my self publish or hold out for
the big guys. You know, all of all of the
questions that that so many people have. So I appreciate
your your sharing that story. Now, speaking of cool questions,
I try to ask this of everyone because the children
of today are not like the children of past generations.
(07:58):
They're dealing with so much more in today's climate. With
that being said, would you say that your book is
appropriate for someone as young as high school, like fourteen, fifteen,
sixteen years old, or do they need to be college
age or a little bit older to have more life
experience to be able to follow along.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, that's a very good question, and my answer is
that I think you will enhance your understanding of the
book and the messages we're trying to give if you
have some life experience behind you. That's true and almost
anything we do, I think life experience is something that
you have to search for, take advantage of, and really
(08:43):
try to develop into a plus as opposed to a
minus in life. And I think that's true in this case.
I personally feel very strongly that this book is appropriate
for a high schooler or anybody older than that. And
I think the interpretation of the book and the things
that you take away from the book, or the things
(09:05):
that you put into the book in terms of reading
it and thinking about the issues that we try to address,
those are all things that are going to be enhanced
by a life experience. And I think people what I
really wanted to do is people to think about the
messages that are in the book. And I don't really
care whether we all understand them as long as we're
(09:27):
thinking about them and trying to do the best we
can to generate interest in doing what's right as opposed
to what's wrong. And so I think it's a book
that can serve lots of different generations, and probably different
generations will have different reactions to it. People in my
generation would have a different reaction to it than my
(09:48):
father's generations, for example.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I think having different.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Reactions born of different ages and different life experiences is
not a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And you know, all of us.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Probably have a book or two that we will maybe
not all of us, but a lot of us have
a book or two that we sort of like to
read once in a while. And what I'm hoping is
that this book will become something that people take off
the shelf if they're going to their book club and
they want to have something to talk about, or if
they want to compare the results of a movie, or
if they want to think about what's going on politically.
(10:22):
You know, is there something that be gained by using
this as a discussion guide as opposed to something that's
going to create uproar. I'm not interested in uproar. I'm
interested in positive sensitive uproar about things that we can
do something about, and I think all of us can
do something about almost anything.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You are so right there, and many times when we
can have that intergenerational conversation about things that are going
on in the world, it helps each generation understand the
perspective of the other and mix for a really great
bonding extp. So you are you are definitely right there there. Well,
(11:04):
it is time for us to take a very short break.
But before we do, we know that of course, this
book is available on Amazon or wherever books are sold.
But if someone wants to reach out to you, what
is the best way to do that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
The best way is probably by email, and the email
address of the book is on the back of the
back cover already.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Then you guys, you know where to get a copy
of the book. We'll be back right after this, and
we are back. Thank you so much for joining me
for Daily's Spark with Doctor Angela. I'm your host at
(11:49):
Doctrik Angela. But Chester, I love that your book is
one that is going to cause people to put to consider,
to reevaluate. I'd like a good book that captures the
reader's attention and that you can really sink your teeth into.
(12:11):
With that being said, I want to ask it has
political overtone with your book, Why was it important for
this to be a conversation for now?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, that's a that's a deep question that there's a
lot of layers, a lot of layers to it. I
think fundamentally, one of the problems that we've got in
the country right now is that people spend more time
talking and screaming at each other than they do trying
to come up with solutions. And you can look, for example,
(12:47):
in today's news, you could look at what's happening to
the Congress being wrapped up tight about the budget and
related issues which are very very deep, hard to solve
and have lots of different zones in them in terms
of quality and depth and enhancement of lots of different things.
And so I wanted to have a book that helps
(13:10):
people to the extent they wanted to sort through the layer.
You know, people talk about things having a lot of
layers to them. Well, the topics dealt with in this
book have a lot of layers to them.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And it's not a.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Typical kind of book, I don't think, because it's actually
designed to have give you some background, and it's not
deep deep background. I mean, this is not a five
hundred page book with one hundred thousand footnotes. But it's
designed to be a book that's readable. You know, think
short sentences for example. You want to pay attention to
(13:41):
that sort of thing. So I wanted to be an
easy read and read that you wouldn't be afraid of,
but a read that you might be able to sit
down at night and with your favorite soft drink or
otherwise and think about the things that are going on
today and what do you think about them, and what
should you be doing with yourself, or your family, or
your friends, or your enemies for that matter, to make
(14:04):
a change for the positive, however you define that, because
I think we're in a point in our history in
the United States where we're really trying to preserve the
democracy that is so important to us. You know, a
year and a half ago I thought a little bit about,
you know, is this country going to survive as a democracy?
(14:25):
And then I thought to myself, that's the craziest thing
anybody ever started to worry about, Because if any country
is going to survive as a republic or as a democracy,
it's going to be this country. Well, guess what, I
don't think it's so far fetched. I did a year
and a half ago. There is a lot of noise
(14:45):
out there that is not good noise, and we need
to think about being serious about what we have and
how we got there, and the types of structures and
phenomena that come in and help us develop answers as
opposed to solutions that don't go anywhere. And so I
really felt strongly that the book needed to inspire. I
(15:06):
don't mean that in a religious sense, but in a
sense of, you know, creating ideas and an answer for
oneself about how much to lead life, what's important, what's
not important, and what can we do to make things
just a little bit better? You know, each of us
making a little difference can make it, can make things better.
(15:29):
And I'll give you an example out of the political world,
which is a little bit slighter, slightly sulkers, but worthwhile.
In the presidential election that mister Trump won the first time.
I remember watching him during the debates, and he is
a very deft person dealing with other people and audiences,
(15:51):
and he has a lot of he's got a quick mind,
and that's all to his benefit. But he's a hard
guy to stay up with because he is so he's
so quick and quick doesn't mean smart, and it doesn't
mean dumb. It just means quick. And I think what
we want to do is have people like that around to,
(16:14):
you know, question where what we're doing. But we also
need to notice what's going on among those who are
doing the questioning. And so I think this is a
difficult world to live in. I just think, you know,
understanding where people are coming from. Where are people coming from,
that inevitable, inevitably makes a significant impact on how they think.
(16:38):
What they think is important. So if you look at
a person and you hear of you that you either
read or disagree with, and you think about it, chances are,
now this is true of me. Chances are they're going
to be affected by where they came from, how they
grew up, why do they went to school, and how
they developed over time, job wise, religion wise, it's all
(17:01):
over in all kinds of factors that affect one's life.
And so I think, you know, the book tries to say,
here's a bunch of stuff that you can think about.
And I think that's one of the reasons why I
think this high school student is fine for this book,
because we're not We're not preaching a result. We're preaching
(17:21):
a process that tries to take advantage of each each
person's worldly experience and try to weave it into a
pattern that makes sense for that person over time. And
to go back to the example. For example, I still
remember in that in that presidential election, after it was over,
there was an attempt to change the votes in Georgia.
(17:44):
And this was after the fact, and the claim was
that there were problems with the voting processes in Georgia.
And I can still remember then President elect Trump saying
on a telephone call with lawyer with Georgia officials saying, gents,
all I need is eleven thousand votes. How can you
get me eleven thousand votes? Well, I'll guarantee you that
(18:08):
there are eleven thousand votes who would change their vote
differently than if they were voting now as opposed to them.
And it wouldn't have taken much to change minds back then.
And you can say that's due to a lot of
different reasons, but the fact that you could change a
national election result with a margin of eleven thousand vote
(18:30):
votes is you know, it's nuts, but it's the way
it is.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Let me ask you this, do you think that because
you have a law background, that you are able to
process the information not only that comes to you in
day to day conversation, but that you were able to
present it in this book in a way that is
easy for someone to follow the storyline because you have
(18:59):
that background.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I think it's a better I think it's the benefit.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I don't know that it's not a panacea because the
types of legal constitutional law issues that we're dealing with
now on a daily I mean literally a daily basis,
are tough issues. And there are issues that some of
which have had lots of ground plowed under them and
over them, and others are new and haven't been exposed
(19:26):
to the plow of the law.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
But I think it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
But we're dealing with tough issues, and they are tough
issues because they are people issues as opposed to law issues,
and people issues of law issues collide every once in
a while, and you have to be careful when that
collision takes place, because collisions is not what we want.
We want gentle breezes flowing through our lives, aiming in
(19:52):
the right direction, and.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So I think it makes the difference. It helps.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
As I say, I wouldn't claim in most who studied
constitutional I wouldn't claim that we have all the answers,
but we do understand some of the questions a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Maybe Yeah, I like that answer. Now in your book,
I believe I have this correctly. The main character is
Salt Pepper. Tell me why was this character given this personality?
Why are they important to this book?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I want to have a character in the book. I
had a name that was more troublesome than the mine?
How does that mine? Worm? Is not the most famous
name in the world.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But it is a growth experience having that name. I
would say I wanted him to be Salt Pepper is
ordinary man or a woman.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Right, He's a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
He worked in DC, he was an experienced practitioner.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
He knew that was a good lawyer.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
People trusted in because they trusted not only his legal
experience but his judgment. And try finding people with judgment
that you care about is a hard thing sometimes, And
so I think salt Pepper stands for you know, salt
and pepper. But you know, we went to Stanton, Virginia,
for example, was just stalton in some places, and we
(21:16):
we we picked up the salt from there. And if
your name, first name is salt, it is only natural.
What else was your lick name going to be? So
pepper pepper was automatic, So it wasn't it was. It's
not like you know, there was a thunderclash and I
said this, this this person is salt, and this person
is also pepper. But it does suggest that there are
(21:38):
different strengths and weaknesses among all of us, and not
all of us see see the same things at the
same time. And so salt pepper is a sort of
a general process. I think of him as a picture
of the average American trying to deal with things as
best he or she can.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Mm hmmmm. I love it. I love it. And as
a native Virginian, Hello, hello to all of our beautiful
and wonderful listeners coming in from the Commonwealth of Virginia.
I love it.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
So when we look at the nuggets that you have
placed along the way in the book, I firmly believe
that authors have a way of giving us these beautiful breadcrumbs,
these beautiful nuggets that keep us turning the pages from
(22:33):
first ontil last. If there is one particular thing that
you want the reader to take away from having read
the book. What would that takeaway be.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I want to attack your question in one sense. I
want to give you two things, okay, instead of one.
One is I want people to take away the importance
of coming together, being together, coming toward the middle of
the world, and in terms of political and other kinds
of things, so going toward the middle, and something that
(23:07):
is a little more faint in terms of the dash
and the trouble that things can be creating around ideas.
And then I guess the second one, this is a
harder one to articulate. I think you know, what we
want to do is have a recognition that like it
(23:28):
or not, like it or not, things are going to
get worse before they get better. And the types of
things that we're talking about now, you don't have to
like that. And I'm not going to run a petition
around the world saying, you know, are you are you
optimistic or not? But things are not going to get
better unless we make them better. And so you know,
(23:50):
I would say, get on your horse, do the appropriate
thing that's consistent of what your goals are in life,
and get it and get over it, because I think
we're headed for bad times. I think what's going on
right now in this country. And I don't care what
your perspective is. I really don't. What I really care
(24:11):
about is do you care about something? And do you
care about something enough to try to make a difference
If you can think about making a difference in your
own little venue, your own little set of ideas, you
know they're probably not so little, And so let's try
to join together and build on things as opposed to
take them apart. And you know, if you want to
(24:32):
see what taking apart looks like, just watch your news
tonight on the latest debates in Congress. So anyway, that's
the point. That's the point. I leave it there and
go along for go on for a long time, but
we lose half your audience, and that's probably not what
we want to do.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
No, But I thank you for for being open and
and honest. And you know with everything that you hit
the nail on the head with every conversation, with every perspective,
every topic in the world today, there are going to
be just as many people nodding their head in agreement
with you that perhaps there are with people shaking their
(25:12):
heads that disagree with you. But if we can find
that common ground in the in the highest common good
for all, then what what a what a great place
to meet in the in the middle. I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Now.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
My last question for you is, and I realized that
so many of my authors have, you know, things outside
of their book that they are doing. There are future
projects that they're working on, things that they are ready
to discuss, not the things you're not ready to discuss.
But I do want to give you a platform. Are
there any new things in the work for you, any
(25:50):
projects that you're working on, anything that you you hope
to present to us in the in the near future.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Well, I guess one goal I've got the remains vertical.
Agreed in my age, you have to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So I have one of my goals is to stay vertical.
And I guess the other thing is I want to
spend as much valuable time time as Okay, I'm a
lousy father and a lousy grandfather, and I get moved
away from some of those things that are important by
some of the things that are not important.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And so if I.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Could be a better, better dad and a better grandfather,
and a better community member. That would be a good result,
but you have to think about it and then more important,
you have to act on it.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So that would be my.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Speech to myself would be get out there more often,
but get it out with people who you really care about.
And I've got a great family and I'm probably the
luckiest person on this radio show. And what I need
to do is take advantage of all the blessings that
I have in terms of the people who are around
me on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I love it. I love it. A great book to
read and a nugget of wisdom to spark us for
the rest of the day. James, thank you so much
for spending some time with me here on Daily Spark
with Doctor Angela. I have enjoyed my conversation with you today.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Thank you, and I have enjoyed it as will.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Listeners. We hope that you have enjoyed your time with
us today here as well. I hope that we have enlightened,
inspired and empowered you again today as always, May the
Lord continue to shine his face upon you. May you
receive his blessings and his mercy in all that you do.
Until next time, everyone remember that you you are blessed
(27:45):
in the Lord. Have a great day everyone. Bye bye,
Hello everyone, and thank you so much for joining me
for Daily Spark with Doctor Angelo. I'm your host, Doctor Angela.
But Chester, you guys know who I am, and you
know what I like to do on my show, Say
it with me. I want to enlighten, inspire, and empower
you to become your best self.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Now.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
Scripture reminds us that the tongue is a small thing
that makes grand speeches, but a tiny spark can set
a great forest on fire. And that's what we want
to do today. We want to get you fired up
about my guest. I'll be spending time today with James
Magram and we'll be talking about his book, Inheritance of
(00:48):
Crises and Dysfunction. So you know what I'm gonna tell
you to do. Go on, get comfy, get cozy, get
your coffee or get your tea because we are about
to get started. Hello. Hello, Thank you so much for
joining me here on daily' Spark with Doctor Angela.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Hello, Doctor Angela. We'll glad to be here.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Jim My Worm absolutely absolutely now before we get started
talking about your book, and I cannot wait to hear
more about it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
We do have a little bit of Southern tradition here
and that is we want to introduce you to perhaps
those few folks out there that may be unfamiliar with
you and your work. So first question, tell us a
little bit about yourself. What makes you you.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
Well, what makes me me?
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Me?
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Makes me me? That's a good question. I said a
lot of things. It's the opportunity to grow up in
the middle of nowhere in the state of Ohio, but
to become acquainted with and friends of and people who
I really trust in the the Midwestern situation that I
think is all benefit to the country.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
As a whole.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I'm a lawyer for thirty plus years, practicing in Cleveland,
Ohio and Washington, d C. For the most part, I'm
a fellow who is concerned about the future of our
country and the place that we need to play in
the role in the world as a country and not
as not as political parties, but as a country and
(02:26):
as citizens who care about the future. And I want
to have something to look back on and say, those
of us who are in the middle of the political
spectrum made a difference at a time when it needed
to be made. I love that.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
I love that answer. Now, being an author, is that
something that you've always wanted to do, or was perhaps
this a way for you to share your knowledge, to
share your position you're like who you are as a
person in today's world.
Speaker 3 (03:01):
I would say it was.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
The reason for my doing this is really going into
where I am in the by stage of life. I'm
older than I was quite a while ago. That normally
happens during life, but I got older in the sense
that I started worrying about the future. When I say
the future, I'm not worried about my future, because it's
(03:25):
my future, is what it is at this point. But
you know, I worry about my children and my grandchildren,
who are great people and I'm sure will grow up
to great people. And I worry about their friends and
our relatives around the world. And I really want to
be doing something that has some lasting value in terms
of ability to affect things in a modest way, but
(03:48):
yet in a way that stands out for some reason
or another. And you know, five years ago, I was
looking I was on the edge of retirement. I wanted
to continue to practic his law, but it was time
to go away from that, and I started doing more
thinking about, you know, how can I achieve some of
the goals that I just referred to and I decided
(04:11):
to try to write a book, and I had never
done that before, and I found out that it's a
little more interesting and challenging than I thought it might be.
And there was a time during the process of writing
the book that I actually gave it up and threw
it all in the closet and said, you know, this
is not working that well, this is not something I
want to do.
Speaker 3 (04:31):
But I came back to.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
It with more, you might say, and I'm pleased with
the result. And I'm pleased with the result as it
applies to the nation and the world where we are today,
because if I had a chance to stand on a
stand on a platform and you know, hey, you know,
listen to this, because we all need to think about
these things. And I'm not here to preach much right
(04:55):
or wrong. I'm here to say we all need a process,
and we all need the care, and we all need
to be reasonab about achieving reasonable goals in a reasonable
way in an unreasonable state of life.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Mm hmmmmm. Now, the title of your book. I have
interviewed lots of authors that say, oh, doctor Angela, the
title just came to me one day out of the blue,
and I was able to really write around the title.
Others have said I called this book ten different things
(05:28):
before we finally settled on the title that is presented
to the world. How did the title come to you?
What's the story there?
Speaker 3 (05:38):
Well, the story there is not too exciting. I started.
I started.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
I've been through several different titles, and I started out
with one that was only four words long, which was
a benefit in some respects.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
But I wanted the.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Title to reflect the goals of the book, and which
is to bring people together as opposed to spread people apart.
And that means financially, politically, religiously, whatever it happens to be.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
And so that was the goal.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
And when I looked around the world, you can see
that we are really beginning to generate an inheritance of
what are indeed crises and what is indeed dysfunction. And
so that being some of the goals of the of
(06:32):
the of the radio or the book or the movie,
whatever you happen to be doing in terms of communication,
that was sort of a guidance to the title. Now,
you know, I know the title is too long. I
get that, I get it, But you know, I just
have to ask listeners to get over it and say,
you know, there's a reason for the title, and it's
(06:52):
still pretty applicable in today's world as it was five
years ago when I started thinking about this. See, you
should have seen the first couple of verses. Though it
was a couple of the first couple of versions of
the title were not well, they wouldn't have turned you
over too much, that's for sure. So it's better than
it was.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I love it. I love it, and you know, I
ask some of these questions because for our aspiring authors,
they need to know that they're not the only ones that's,
you know, wrestling with a particular issue. Sometimes it's writer's block,
or it's deciding on which title do you want to
you know, give this work that you've poured into, or
(07:37):
you know, do my self publish or hold out for
the big guys. You know, all of all of the
questions that that so many people have. So I appreciate
your your sharing that story. Now, speaking of cool questions,
I try to ask this of everyone because the children
of today are not like the children of past generations.
(07:58):
They're dealing with so much more in today's climate. With
that being said, would you say that your book is
appropriate for someone as young as high school, like fourteen, fifteen,
sixteen years old, or do they need to be college
age or a little bit older to have more life
experience to be able to follow along.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Well, that's a very good question, and my answer is
that I think you will enhance your understanding of the
book and the messages we're trying to give if you
have some life experience behind you. That's true and almost
anything we do, I think life experience is something that
you have to search for, take advantage of, and really
(08:43):
try to develop into a plus as opposed to a
minus in life. And I think that's true in this case.
I personally feel very strongly that this book is appropriate
for a high schooler or anybody older than that. And
I think the interpretation of the book and the things
that you take away from the book, or the things
(09:05):
that you put into the book in terms of reading
it and thinking about the issues that we try to address,
those are all things that are going to be enhanced
by a life experience. And I think people what I
really wanted to do is people to think about the
messages that are in the book. And I don't really
care whether we all understand them as long as we're
(09:27):
thinking about them and trying to do the best we
can to generate interest in doing what's right as opposed
to what's wrong. And so I think it's a book
that can serve lots of different generations, and probably different
generations will have different reactions to it. People in my
generation would have a different reaction to it than my
(09:48):
father's generations, for example.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
So I think having different.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Reactions born of different ages and different life experiences is
not a bad thing.
Speaker 3 (10:00):
And you know, all of us.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Probably have a book or two that we will maybe
not all of us, but a lot of us have
a book or two that we sort of like to
read once in a while. And what I'm hoping is
that this book will become something that people take off
the shelf if they're going to their book club and
they want to have something to talk about, or if
they want to compare the results of a movie, or
if they want to think about what's going on politically.
(10:22):
You know, is there something that be gained by using
this as a discussion guide as opposed to something that's
going to create uproar. I'm not interested in uproar. I'm
interested in positive sensitive uproar about things that we can
do something about, and I think all of us can
do something about almost anything.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
You are so right there, and many times when we
can have that intergenerational conversation about things that are going
on in the world, it helps each generation understand the
perspective of the other and mix for a really great
bonding extp. So you are you are definitely right there there. Well,
(11:04):
it is time for us to take a very short break.
But before we do, we know that of course, this
book is available on Amazon or wherever books are sold.
But if someone wants to reach out to you, what
is the best way to do that.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
The best way is probably by email, and the email
address of the book is on the back of the
back cover already.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Then you guys, you know where to get a copy
of the book. We'll be back right after this, and
we are back. Thank you so much for joining me
for Daily's Spark with Doctor Angela. I'm your host at
(11:49):
Doctrik Angela. But Chester, I love that your book is
one that is going to cause people to put to consider,
to reevaluate. I'd like a good book that captures the
reader's attention and that you can really sink your teeth into.
(12:11):
With that being said, I want to ask it has
political overtone with your book, Why was it important for
this to be a conversation for now?
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Well, that's a that's a deep question that there's a
lot of layers, a lot of layers to it. I
think fundamentally, one of the problems that we've got in
the country right now is that people spend more time
talking and screaming at each other than they do trying
to come up with solutions. And you can look, for example,
(12:47):
in today's news, you could look at what's happening to
the Congress being wrapped up tight about the budget and
related issues which are very very deep, hard to solve
and have lots of different zones in them in terms
of quality and depth and enhancement of lots of different things.
And so I wanted to have a book that helps
(13:10):
people to the extent they wanted to sort through the layer.
You know, people talk about things having a lot of
layers to them. Well, the topics dealt with in this
book have a lot of layers to them.
Speaker 3 (13:20):
And it's not a.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
Typical kind of book, I don't think, because it's actually
designed to have give you some background, and it's not
deep deep background. I mean, this is not a five
hundred page book with one hundred thousand footnotes. But it's
designed to be a book that's readable. You know, think
short sentences for example. You want to pay attention to
(13:41):
that sort of thing. So I wanted to be an
easy read and read that you wouldn't be afraid of,
but a read that you might be able to sit
down at night and with your favorite soft drink or
otherwise and think about the things that are going on
today and what do you think about them, and what
should you be doing with yourself, or your family, or
your friends, or your enemies for that matter, to make
(14:04):
a change for the positive, however you define that, because
I think we're in a point in our history in
the United States where we're really trying to preserve the
democracy that is so important to us. You know, a
year and a half ago I thought a little bit about,
you know, is this country going to survive as a democracy?
(14:25):
And then I thought to myself, that's the craziest thing
anybody ever started to worry about, Because if any country
is going to survive as a republic or as a democracy,
it's going to be this country. Well, guess what, I
don't think it's so far fetched. I did a year
and a half ago. There is a lot of noise
(14:45):
out there that is not good noise, and we need
to think about being serious about what we have and
how we got there, and the types of structures and
phenomena that come in and help us develop answers as
opposed to solutions that don't go anywhere. And so I
really felt strongly that the book needed to inspire. I
(15:06):
don't mean that in a religious sense, but in a
sense of, you know, creating ideas and an answer for
oneself about how much to lead life, what's important, what's
not important, and what can we do to make things
just a little bit better? You know, each of us
making a little difference can make it, can make things better.
(15:29):
And I'll give you an example out of the political world,
which is a little bit slighter, slightly sulkers, but worthwhile.
In the presidential election that mister Trump won the first time.
I remember watching him during the debates, and he is
a very deft person dealing with other people and audiences,
(15:51):
and he has a lot of he's got a quick mind,
and that's all to his benefit. But he's a hard
guy to stay up with because he is so he's
so quick and quick doesn't mean smart, and it doesn't
mean dumb. It just means quick. And I think what
we want to do is have people like that around to,
(16:14):
you know, question where what we're doing. But we also
need to notice what's going on among those who are
doing the questioning. And so I think this is a
difficult world to live in. I just think, you know,
understanding where people are coming from. Where are people coming from,
that inevitable, inevitably makes a significant impact on how they think.
(16:38):
What they think is important. So if you look at
a person and you hear of you that you either
read or disagree with, and you think about it, chances are,
now this is true of me. Chances are they're going
to be affected by where they came from, how they
grew up, why do they went to school, and how
they developed over time, job wise, religion wise, it's all
(17:01):
over in all kinds of factors that affect one's life.
And so I think, you know, the book tries to say,
here's a bunch of stuff that you can think about.
And I think that's one of the reasons why I
think this high school student is fine for this book,
because we're not We're not preaching a result. We're preaching
(17:21):
a process that tries to take advantage of each each
person's worldly experience and try to weave it into a
pattern that makes sense for that person over time. And
to go back to the example. For example, I still
remember in that in that presidential election, after it was over,
there was an attempt to change the votes in Georgia.
(17:44):
And this was after the fact, and the claim was
that there were problems with the voting processes in Georgia.
And I can still remember then President elect Trump saying
on a telephone call with lawyer with Georgia officials saying, gents,
all I need is eleven thousand votes. How can you
get me eleven thousand votes? Well, I'll guarantee you that
(18:08):
there are eleven thousand votes who would change their vote
differently than if they were voting now as opposed to them.
And it wouldn't have taken much to change minds back then.
And you can say that's due to a lot of
different reasons, but the fact that you could change a
national election result with a margin of eleven thousand vote
(18:30):
votes is you know, it's nuts, but it's the way
it is.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Now.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
Let me ask you this, do you think that because
you have a law background, that you are able to
process the information not only that comes to you in
day to day conversation, but that you were able to
present it in this book in a way that is
easy for someone to follow the storyline because you have
(18:59):
that background.
Speaker 3 (19:02):
I think it's a better I think it's the benefit.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
I don't know that it's not a panacea because the
types of legal constitutional law issues that we're dealing with
now on a daily I mean literally a daily basis,
are tough issues. And there are issues that some of
which have had lots of ground plowed under them and
over them, and others are new and haven't been exposed
(19:26):
to the plow of the law.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
But I think it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
But we're dealing with tough issues, and they are tough
issues because they are people issues as opposed to law issues,
and people issues of law issues collide every once in
a while, and you have to be careful when that
collision takes place, because collisions is not what we want.
We want gentle breezes flowing through our lives, aiming in
(19:52):
the right direction, and.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
So I think it makes the difference. It helps.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
As I say, I wouldn't claim in most who studied
constitutional I wouldn't claim that we have all the answers,
but we do understand some of the questions a little
bit better.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Maybe Yeah, I like that answer. Now in your book,
I believe I have this correctly. The main character is
Salt Pepper. Tell me why was this character given this personality?
Why are they important to this book?
Speaker 3 (20:27):
I want to have a character in the book. I
had a name that was more troublesome than the mine?
How does that mine? Worm? Is not the most famous
name in the world.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
But it is a growth experience having that name. I
would say I wanted him to be Salt Pepper is
ordinary man or a woman.
Speaker 3 (20:48):
Right, He's a lawyer.
Speaker 2 (20:49):
He worked in DC, he was an experienced practitioner.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
He knew that was a good lawyer.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
People trusted in because they trusted not only his legal
experience but his judgment. And try finding people with judgment
that you care about is a hard thing sometimes, And
so I think salt Pepper stands for you know, salt
and pepper. But you know, we went to Stanton, Virginia,
for example, was just stalton in some places, and we
(21:16):
we we picked up the salt from there. And if
your name, first name is salt, it is only natural.
What else was your lick name going to be? So
pepper pepper was automatic, So it wasn't it was. It's
not like you know, there was a thunderclash and I
said this, this this person is salt, and this person
is also pepper. But it does suggest that there are
(21:38):
different strengths and weaknesses among all of us, and not
all of us see see the same things at the
same time. And so salt pepper is a sort of
a general process. I think of him as a picture
of the average American trying to deal with things as
best he or she can.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
Mm hmmmm. I love it. I love it. And as
a native Virginian, Hello, hello to all of our beautiful
and wonderful listeners coming in from the Commonwealth of Virginia.
I love it.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I love it.
Speaker 1 (22:12):
So when we look at the nuggets that you have
placed along the way in the book, I firmly believe
that authors have a way of giving us these beautiful breadcrumbs,
these beautiful nuggets that keep us turning the pages from
(22:33):
first ontil last. If there is one particular thing that
you want the reader to take away from having read
the book. What would that takeaway be.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
I want to attack your question in one sense. I
want to give you two things, okay, instead of one.
One is I want people to take away the importance
of coming together, being together, coming toward the middle of
the world, and in terms of political and other kinds
of things, so going toward the middle, and something that
(23:07):
is a little more faint in terms of the dash
and the trouble that things can be creating around ideas.
And then I guess the second one, this is a
harder one to articulate. I think you know, what we
want to do is have a recognition that like it
(23:28):
or not, like it or not, things are going to
get worse before they get better. And the types of
things that we're talking about now, you don't have to
like that. And I'm not going to run a petition
around the world saying, you know, are you are you
optimistic or not? But things are not going to get
better unless we make them better. And so you know,
(23:50):
I would say, get on your horse, do the appropriate
thing that's consistent of what your goals are in life,
and get it and get over it, because I think
we're headed for bad times. I think what's going on
right now in this country. And I don't care what
your perspective is. I really don't. What I really care
(24:11):
about is do you care about something? And do you
care about something enough to try to make a difference
If you can think about making a difference in your
own little venue, your own little set of ideas, you
know they're probably not so little, And so let's try
to join together and build on things as opposed to
take them apart. And you know, if you want to
(24:32):
see what taking apart looks like, just watch your news
tonight on the latest debates in Congress. So anyway, that's
the point. That's the point. I leave it there and
go along for go on for a long time, but
we lose half your audience, and that's probably not what
we want to do.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
No, But I thank you for for being open and
and honest. And you know with everything that you hit
the nail on the head with every conversation, with every perspective,
every topic in the world today, there are going to
be just as many people nodding their head in agreement
with you that perhaps there are with people shaking their
(25:12):
heads that disagree with you. But if we can find
that common ground in the in the highest common good
for all, then what what a what a great place
to meet in the in the middle. I love it.
I love it.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
Now.
Speaker 1 (25:27):
My last question for you is, and I realized that
so many of my authors have, you know, things outside
of their book that they are doing. There are future
projects that they're working on, things that they are ready
to discuss, not the things you're not ready to discuss.
But I do want to give you a platform. Are
there any new things in the work for you, any
(25:50):
projects that you're working on, anything that you you hope
to present to us in the in the near future.
Speaker 3 (25:58):
Well, I guess one goal I've got the remains vertical.
Agreed in my age, you have to worry about that.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So I have one of my goals is to stay vertical.
And I guess the other thing is I want to
spend as much valuable time time as Okay, I'm a
lousy father and a lousy grandfather, and I get moved
away from some of those things that are important by
some of the things that are not important.
Speaker 3 (26:25):
And so if I.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Could be a better, better dad and a better grandfather,
and a better community member. That would be a good result,
but you have to think about it and then more important,
you have to act on it.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
So that would be my.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Speech to myself would be get out there more often,
but get it out with people who you really care about.
And I've got a great family and I'm probably the
luckiest person on this radio show. And what I need
to do is take advantage of all the blessings that
I have in terms of the people who are around
me on a day to day basis.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
I love it. I love it. A great book to
read and a nugget of wisdom to spark us for
the rest of the day. James, thank you so much
for spending some time with me here on Daily Spark
with Doctor Angela. I have enjoyed my conversation with you today.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
Thank you, and I have enjoyed it as will.
Speaker 1 (27:22):
Listeners. We hope that you have enjoyed your time with
us today here as well. I hope that we have enlightened,
inspired and empowered you again today as always, May the
Lord continue to shine his face upon you. May you
receive his blessings and his mercy in all that you do.
Until next time, everyone remember that you you are blessed
(27:45):
in the Lord. Have a great day everyone. Bye bye,
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