April 16, 2025 • 38 mins
This week on the Daly Dose, we are joined by Dr. Sammy Vogel-Seidenberg who is a professor and Faculty Athletic Representative at Dominican University of California, where he’s spent years shaping the next generation of athletes and sports leaders!
He’s also a former hockey player, NCAA head lacrosse coach and assistant athletic director with a deep background in coaching, recruiting, and sports administration. But what really sets him apart is his research. Dr. Vogel-Seidenberg recently completed his PhD in Sports Leadership, with his dissertation titled The Role of Physicality in Professional Hockey: Examining the Impact of Fighting and Hitting on Gameplay, Team Dynamics, and Success.
If you’ve ever wondered how physical play influences a team’s performance or whether fighting still has a place in today’s NHL, you’re going to love this conversation!
We discuss the impact that physicality can have on a game, why legislating physicality out of the game can actually be dangerous to players, plus Dr. Sammy answers our questions about who is the greatest hockey fighter ever, as well as his pick for who will eventually win the Stanley Cup this season!
He’s also a former hockey player, NCAA head lacrosse coach and assistant athletic director with a deep background in coaching, recruiting, and sports administration. But what really sets him apart is his research. Dr. Vogel-Seidenberg recently completed his PhD in Sports Leadership, with his dissertation titled The Role of Physicality in Professional Hockey: Examining the Impact of Fighting and Hitting on Gameplay, Team Dynamics, and Success.
If you’ve ever wondered how physical play influences a team’s performance or whether fighting still has a place in today’s NHL, you’re going to love this conversation!
We discuss the impact that physicality can have on a game, why legislating physicality out of the game can actually be dangerous to players, plus Dr. Sammy answers our questions about who is the greatest hockey fighter ever, as well as his pick for who will eventually win the Stanley Cup this season!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Wednesday, April sixteenth, twenty twenty five, you are listening to
the Daily Dose Sports podcast and I am your host,
Clint Daily, coming to you from the Mile High City
here in Denver, Colorado, and we are back for another
week of talking sports with a dose of common sense.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, Happy Wednesday. Do you hope your week is going well?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You, your family, your friends, everyone is staying strong and
healthy in your world right now? And you know, we
are actually right now hitting another one of those fun
seasons of the year. And no it's not the best,
but it's good because we actually will have some things
to watch in the world of sports over the next
(00:45):
few weeks. Of course, over the weekend we saw Rory
McElroy finally win the Masters. No, it wasn't easy, it
wasn't always pretty. I mean it started slow and it's low.
Somehow he still managed to win. But that long elusive
(01:05):
Grand Slam title is now his pretty fun to watch
on Sunday or over the weekend. And now we have
the NBA Playoffs getting underway, The Stanley Cup Playoffs are
getting ready to get started. The NFL Draft is going
to be here later this month. I mean, the INN
five hundred is coming. The Kentucky Derby is coming. Get
(01:26):
ready for a month or two of really really fun
stuff and then we're gonna hit that long, boring summer
of just nothing but baseball and falling asleep in front
of the TV as you drop qwdo's in your lap
and have an orange beard around your mouth. But hey,
(01:49):
right now, yeah, we're getting into another fun time of year.
Speaking of those Stanley Cup playoffs, We're actually going to
be talking a little bit of hockey today. I know
we don't do it a lot, but we're going to
be joined today by a very special guest, and we're
going to discuss a number of things. In fact, we
(02:09):
have so much to get to today we need to jump
into that right now. Joining us this week on the
Daily Dos, I have got a guest that I'm looking
forward to talking to you because he's got some really
interesting things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I want to make sure I pronounce this correctly, doctor
Sammy Vogel Seidenberg.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Did I get that right?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
That was perfect? Wow?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That was excellent? All right?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Well, Doctor Sammy is a professor and faculty athletic representative
at Dominican University in California, where he has spent years
getting this next generation of athletes and sports leaders ready
for whatever they're going to do in life. He's also
a former NCAA head lacrosse coach and an assistant athletic director.
He's got a big background and coaching, recruiting, sports administration.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You know, I love that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
But here's the stuff that really sets them apart that
I can't wait to tikim about because doctor Vogel Seidenberg
recently completed his PhD in sports leadership. With his dissertation
titled the Role of Physicality in Professional Hockey. He examines
the impact of fighting and a hitting on gameplay, team dynamics,
(03:18):
and success. Yes, I can't wait to break this down.
I've ever wondered how physical play influences how a team
is playing, whether fighting still should be in the game. Today, Yeah,
we're going to drill down on all this, Doctor Sammy,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Thank you for joining us today on the Daily Dost.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited about it.
Thanks for the kind introduction, and yeah, looking forward to
talking about the dissertation and all the other stuff. It's
definitely been a wild ride for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You've got some really really interesting things to talk about here.
First off, I want to get into this where did
you grow up? Where are you from originally?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, so I'm originally from the East Coast. I grew
in New Jersey. I was out there for about fourteen years,
and then in high school, family up and moved to
southern California. So changing lifestyles a little bit down, you know,
going from winter he called New Jersey to sunny, warm
southern California. So yeah, I was out there for a while,
and then you know, went to university up in northern
(04:20):
California and bounced around a bit with different jobs and careers.
I was in Canada playing hockey a little bit. I
was down in southern California in the film industry for
a little while, and then went into coaching. And I
was in Pittsburgh and in Idaho before I ended up
here in northern California at Dominican.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So where in southern California were you? Where did you
go to high school?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I went to Westley High School in Wesley Village. It's
right like if most people know thousand Oaks, that tends
to be the more popular.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, Okay, I got you what sports did you grow
up playing. Did you play everything like a lot of
us did, or did you were you kind of a
you know, hockey lacross guy or did you kind of
play anything?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah? No, I mean hockey was my first sport. I
started playing hockey when I three. That was kind of
like the big passion for me, and I played pretty
much everything else. Hockey and lacrosse ended up being like
the final two that I did throughout you know, middle school,
high school, in college. But I did, you know, soccer
and basketball and baseball, and I was big into the
extreme sports as well. I was a skateboarder, snowboarder, surfer,
(05:19):
all that stuff. But I never did football. That was
one sport I didn't do. I did wrestling, you know,
I kind of tried it all, but if it ever
started to conflict with hockey lacrosse, it had to go.
So I did cross country and track and field in
high school. So I mean, I've done pretty much most
sports except for football.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
As a hockey player, and I know we're going to
talk kind of anything, but as a hockey player, what
kind of player were you? What position are you playing?
What were you what were you on ice?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah? For sure. So I started off playing offense. I
was a left wing center. I ended up stopping and
playing goalie for a couple of years, and then I
won a championship with my youth team, and then was like,
all right, I did my job. Now gonna go back
to playing out. So I went back to playing left
wing and center, and so I did that for the
rest of my career. I was a you know, I'm
(06:09):
not the biggest guy. I'm you know, five nine, so
I'm not you know, I'm not super tall, and I
don't necessarily have the hockey build. But I was a grinder.
I was a grit and grind kind of guy. I
got in a lot of fights. I uh, you know,
I was the guy scoring a couple you know, I
just didn't score a ton of goals. I got a
lot of assists. I got a lot of those grind
you know, banging in the front of the that type
of goals, you know, being in the right place, that
(06:30):
kind of stuff. More so than the finesse or flash
guys that you see today.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well then it's no wonder that you kind of went
the direction you went with, you know, the physicality and
hockey and that kind of thing because that was kind.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Of the way you played.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
How did you go from playing and then and then
kind of transitioning over into that coaching side.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, so so, you know, I mean, I I my
senior year of college. You know, I was playing both
sports and I finished my hockey season, started my lacrosse season,
and uh and I ended up blowing out my knee.
And when that happened, it kind of was like, you know,
that was it for my lacross season. I couldn't finish out.
And I actually started coaching the women's lacrosse team at
my school. They needed a coach and so I was like, sure,
(07:11):
I'll help out. And that was kind of my first
intro into coaching. And then I ended up working in
the film industry and doing that, and I was miserable.
It was rough, like it was you know, it was
a lot of work. It was hard. Two years of
that and I just I was ready to move on
to something else. I was coaching a high school team.
I had a lot of success, and somebody took a
chance on me. I got a job coaching on the
East Coast at a college called Washington Jefferson College. It's
(07:33):
a D three school. And you know, do that for
a little bit and then ended up getting the head
coaching job at the University of Idaho, and I was
able to turn that program into a perennial two three
win program, not making playoffs to first year we went
seven and seven, didn't make playoffs. Second year we had
our first winning season in program history, made it to
the PNCl finals, lost in the finals. So you know,
(07:55):
I was able to turn that program around, and then
got the job at Dominican, and you know, it was
coming into a really interesting situation. They were a program
that didn't have a lot. They were D two and
then we got moved to club, but the university was
still running it as an NSULA program. You know, with
all that you had to follow the rules and do
all those things, and so my goal was always to
(08:18):
get us back to the NSULA. So in my nine
years there, I was able to build the team up
to being pretty successful, to adding a women's across team
and being the first NSULA D two women's across team
in California, and then getting the team back to Division
two as of last year. So it's it's it's been
awrve for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
No doubt. Holy cow, that's quite a road you took
to get there. I got to ask this, and I
always ask coaches this, Sure you you played, you went
through that you transition over to coaching.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I usually get one or two sides.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Either you you had a coach that you were like, No,
that was a mentor that was someone who changed my life,
or I never had that and I wanted to go
go find my way. Did you have a coach that
impacted you that kind of made you want to go
into coaching?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, I know for sure. I mean I definitely had
some not great coaches growing up, and you know, and
I definitely knew what I needed in a coach. And
I had a college coach that I owe everything too.
I mean he was his name's Tony Savaggio. You know,
took a rag tag program at where I went to college,
at humblet And and you know, basically we were like,
(09:27):
we need a coach, come in, help us, like, help
us build this thing back up. And he put his blood,
sweat and tears into it. He really cared about his players.
He's a players coach, like you know, you see him
ten years later and he's given you the biggest hug
of your life, you know, that kind of guy and
you know, just just an amazing, amazing man who you know,
helped me really understand like what a coach should be,
(09:48):
you know, and building that type of relationship. And so
for me, I don't necessarily know if that's why the
reason I got into coaching, but it was definitely a
big part of like who I am as a coach
and and relationship building and and you know, I always
have loved sports, and I think that was just a
part of my life and I felt like I wanted
to do a career in it, and coaching made sense
to me. I feel like, i'm I want to learn,
(10:10):
I'm i'm a i'm a I want to I want
to study and learn a lot and uh and then
you know, I love, you know, leading young men. I mean,
I think you know, the ability to be a leader
and help these these kids not just become you know,
better athletes, but more importantly better people. And and that's
always been what I've done as a coach is focused on, Hey,
I want them to be better people and better young
(10:32):
men than when I when I got them. And that's
more important than wins and losses in my.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Mind, absolutely, because you know, at the end of the day,
you're giving them lessons for life. And I know that's cliche,
and I know you know people say that, but you
really are. How many times do you go back, even
now and think back to something your coach you maybe
in middle school even and you're going, I still I
still follow that every single day. Yeah, that's that's what
a good coach should do. Hey, just a quick reminder,
(10:57):
mixture is dotten by dailydowsports dot com.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Eat every week.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You can see new articles there, you can get links
to the podcast or the video over there, and you
can get some Daily doo s gear. You need a
new T shirt, you need a new hoodie, you need
a new sweatshirt. Make sure you're swinging by dailydosports dot
com and checking out what we have going over there
every single week. Now, let's get back to our discussion
with doctor Samuel Vogel Seidenberg. Okay, gotta grilled down on
(11:22):
this though, because you have a very unique outlook on
the role of physicality. Now, I will say, from my perspective,
I was a high school basketball coach. I coach guys
and I coach girls. We always said, the more physical
team is going to win. That's just how it is.
People might not like that. That might offend some people
that don't like that. And most physical team wins if
(11:42):
you can do it within the rules of the game,
most physical team wins. How do you view physicality, especially
in the world of hockey, where physicality to me is huge.
You go see that hit stat up there, and you go, now,
I can probably tell at least an idea who's winning
this game.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Totally. Totally. Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important,
and that was really what I wanted to prove with
my dissertation. And you know, whenever you're going into this
type of research, you really have to come into it
with like no opinion, right, Like that's what they tell you.
Come in with no opinion, and you'll see what happens.
But of course, like I'm going to be biased a
little bit because of my background and all that stuff,
(12:19):
so it's hard to not have opinion. But you know,
I tried to do as much research as I could
into what research has done in the past, and what
I was able to find is that most of the
research done in the past on physicality and fighting and
hitting and hockey is was all statistical based. So they're
strictly looking at the statistics and how it affects the game,
and what's been found is that it actually doesn't help
(12:41):
at all, and it doesn't and it almost hurts it
because you know, you're taking penalties and there's all these
things that go into that. That's what the statistics say,
but at the end of the day, the statistics is
only one piece of it. And when you're talking about
something that impacts mentally and physically, you can't just look
at statistics. So right, you know, that was really where
I was coming from and where the direction kind of went,
(13:03):
and maybe I didn't necessarily expect it to go that way.
Was more of the mental aspect of the of the
fighting and hitting and what it can do in different situations. So,
I mean, I think it's super important. I think if
it's done correctly right, and like you said, like there's
a piece of it when it comes to by the
rules of the game, but I think even more than that,
(13:24):
it's it's the sense of you know, being able to
do it in a way that makes sense. Right. When
we talk about fighting in hockey, there are two different
styles of fighting, right, there's the stage fight and then
there's the organic fight, the thing that just kind of happens, right,
And the stage fight is not influential at all. It
doesn't help, it doesn't do anything, right, but the fight
(13:44):
we agree with you, right exactly, But the organic fight
is what really makes a difference. And it's the same
thing with hitting, right, and because they're trying to limit
those things, it's honestly made the sport more dangerous at times.
And that was another piece that came through in the
research as well, which was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
That is interesting, I'm gonna ask you right now, can
you drill down on that?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Why is it more dangerous when you don't.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Have it right? Totally? So when you look at it
from the perspective of you know, fighting, let's look at
that for first off, right, So you know with the
QMGHL just just band fighting, right, So there's no fighting
in the QMGHL anymore. And you have a ton of
players who come from that league that's one of the
biggest feeder leagues to the NHL. Right, You're not going
(14:25):
to also be able to fight at the US Hockey
Development League, right, And so what's happening is you know
these players are coming in the league and they're not
prepared for that type of physicality, and they're gonna get
in a fight. In the NHL, it's gonna happen, right,
whether you're a superstar or not. Look at maclin Selabrini
from the Sharks. That guy is a grit and grinder,
but he's also one of the best scorers so far
for the Sharks as a rookie, right. And you know,
(14:48):
but you look at a guy like Bidard who has
no physical sense, doesn't understand the physical game, and he
is struggling like he is struggling and he doesn't want
to get hit, right, And that makes a difference. And
so when the fighting side of things, you know, look,
certain people fight, certain people don't. But when you don't
have enforcers, everybody's going to have to fight at some point. Right.
(15:08):
You've taken out the enforcer role from the game. It's gone.
Ryan Reeves is in the AHL. There's no more enforces
in the NHL, right, the true role of it. So
everybody has to fight now, right, and so you're going
to have You're gonna have guys who don't know what
they're doing and they're gonna get hurt. You look at Rempey.
Matt Rempey, who was huge last year. You know, sensation
in the NHL and people love them, but look at
(15:30):
his face after a couple of weeks of fighting. It
was brutal because he had no idea what he was doing, right,
And so that almost makes it more dangerous. And then
in the fighting in the hitting aspect, when you know
that if I turn my back and I get hit,
I get this guy out of the gate, right. If
Connor McDavid is coming out with me at me and
I turn my back, I get Conor McDavid out of
(15:52):
the game. So coach isn't going to tell a player
to do that, but it's one of those situations where
it makes it more dangerous because these players are saying, well,
if I can get somebody out of the game for
an illegal hit, I'm going to do it right. And
then if they're not being hit in game at the
younger ages, they don't know how to take a hit.
And if you don't know how to take a hit,
(16:12):
that's when injuries happen. And you see more and more
superstars getting injured and being out for a long periods
of time during season because they're getting hit and they
don't know how to get hit, right. So I think
that's the one of the biggest issues here is when
it comes to the way the league is approaching these things,
is you know, is taking it out better or worse? Right,
(16:32):
you know, is not preparing these players to be able
to play at you know, when the guys are able
to skate almost thirty forty miles per hour on the
ice and then they get hit and they don't know
how to take that hit, it's really really dangerous. And
I agree with taking out hits to the head, like.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, so, and to be fair, going back the history
of the head, maybe they weren't frowned on like they
are now.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But even then you're like, hey, you went high. That's
kind of so. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I think that's always kind of been the case. Obviously
with the way you view this. You look at the NHL.
It still needs it still needs fighting, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It still needs Yeah yeah, and I know that to
sweep by a way, but you can't.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, no, you definitely can't. And that's really what what
I what came through in in this research, right. So
I was able to interview four x NHL players, which
was awesome, and then I was able to get questionnaires
from ten current NHL players, and not one of those
players said that they believe that fighting should be removed
(17:37):
from the game, and not one of them believe that
hitting should be root from the game. They do, they
all did agree that there was a sense of that
it's okay for these things to the rules are okay, right,
Like the new rules and stuff are okay as long
as we're not like taking it out and making sure
that these players are prepared when they get to this level.
(17:58):
I think that was a big piece as well as
the other thing that came up kind of organically and
from the interviews and from the the questionnaires was the
idea of intimidation. That was a huge piece for me
when it came to this research. I really wanted to
hit on intimidation and I didn't even have to ask
questions on it. They brought it up on their own,
And so for me that was a big piece and
(18:20):
a big eye opener that intimidation as a psychological tool
in hockey is even more important than the actual fighting
or hitting. Knowing that you're playing a more physical team
makes you play differently, makes you grip your stick right.
Knowing that you're have to deal with a fight or
somebody who's going to fight in a game makes you
play differently. And you know, there were guys who were
(18:40):
talking about that. They were like, I was a goon.
I didn't even have to fight. I would just talk.
I would just walk by the locker room and be like,
I'm coming for you. And that was enough for them
to grip their stick and make that mistake. Right. You
see those guys make like defensive players. Got a stick
in the corner and he sees someone coming full speed
from behind him and he throws it and it's like,
what is he doing? He's afraid that he's about to
(19:02):
get lit up, right, And so you know that was
a big piece as well.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So talking you discussed a little bit about those psychological
effects of that physicality of knowing what about the guys
that's bringing the hit, what about the how's, how's the
what are the psychological effects of the guy, Hey, I
am kind of the enforcer. I am going to come
out and light you up.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, totally no, And the big you know, talking to
those guys like it's always fun, right because like they
just have such a perspective on the game that you
don't even think about. Like I had one guy I
talked to who went off on a little tangent about
the equipment. He's like, the equipment's too big, Like we
needed to be smaller because if I'm hitting somebody with
a kevlar elbow cap to the head, of course he's
(19:44):
gonna get knocked out. But if I was hitting them
with a little soft leather pad like I was used to,
he's not gonna get knocked out. So I was just like,
that's awesome. I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
He's not wrong.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I've always said, if you want to eliminate the head
hits in the NFL, you make those homets leather again
and they'll stop hitting with their head.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Right, yeah, yeah no, And so I mean I love
that idea of like equipment being an issue. Right, So
that was one of the things that came up. And
then I think too from them for their perspective, like
you know, they understand that the enforcer role has just
changed now, Like you know, you have guys out there
who can play hockey and can still fight, you know,
Garnett Hathaway on the Flyers, and you know there's a
(20:23):
couple of guys on the blue jackets who play that way.
You know, things like that. You know even you know
they can they can play hockey, and they're good at
hockey and they're fast, but they still can play the
physical side. You need that. Every team has it, every
team needs it, every team wants it right. And one
of the things that they really mentioned was, you know,
play everybody wants the Tom Wilson, right, everybody wants to
(20:46):
Tom Wilson and the Brad Marshaan and the Matthew Kuchuk
and the Brady could Chuck. They want those guys, Like, yes,
everybody would love to have a McDavid, but McDavid is
you know McDavid and a dry cidle Anna McKinnon and
mccarr like those are ones in generation players, right, the
guys who can make more of an impact. Like you know,
we look at these little skilled guys and it's like cool,
(21:06):
this is great, but like I would rather have a
guy who can grind and muck it up in the corners,
but you can also score goals. Like you know, if
you're telling me I had the choice, you know between
Matthew ka Chuck and Tom Wilson over you know, our
Timmy Paneren or a like Fabian Zeterelund or you know
anybody like that. I would take those guys any day.
(21:28):
Like I would rather have Matthew Kachuck. I'm a Rangers fan.
I would rather have Matthew Matthew Kachuck than our Timmy Panera.
I love our Temmy Panera, yes, but Martemy Panerin in
the playoffs can't can't perform Matthika Chuck can't. Right, And
you see it with teams like Carolina, Right, that was
a big one that everybody talked about, is like this
is a team full of like mediocre players with nobody
(21:49):
with grit and grind, and it's all kind of skill based.
You just can't win that way. And you look at
the last few Cup winners, it's all physical teams and
guys who can grind.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
You talked a little bit about this already, but in
your research, enforcers have transition now to guys that can
can skate. I mean, is are we ever gonna have
enforces again? I again, I look at football and say,
you remember the big hitting safety, Yeah, those doesn't exist anymore.
That's a dinosaur? Are these are? Are they enforcers? Dinosaurs? Now?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Have they have they changed so much they're they're unrecognizable.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, you know, I think it's more of what you
just said there. It's that they've changed so much that
it's almost unrecognizable, right, Like Ryan Reeves was kind of
the last of them, Like, you know, there's other guys
who can you know, I mean, Felino is a grit
and Ryan kind of guy. You know, Matthew chuck Is
and Brady are never gonna say no to throwing the
gloves down. But Tom Wilson doesn't really fight that much anymore,
(22:46):
you know, but he's known as that guy. Pat Maroon's
about to retire, So you know, you got a couple
other guys who who kind of can play that way,
but they're also relying on them to score goals. So
it's like, you know, they're they're more of the Bob
Probert type, right, And I think that's what we're going
to see. We're going to see a lot more Bob
Probert than we are Ty Domi and you know, and
(23:07):
Ryan Reeves and Derek Buguard and those guys, Like, we're
going to see a lot more of the guy who
can put up twenty thirty goals a season, but can also,
you know, punch somebody's lights out, right, you know, or
you're going to see fourth line guys like Matt Rempey
and Barkley Goodrow and those kind of guys who you
know will muck it up and will grit and grind,
but and will not score a lot of goals, but
(23:28):
you're not they They got to be able to skate,
and they got to be able to keep up with
the pace. And I got to be able to put
my fourth line out against the first line and they
can still succeed. Right, So the enforcer role, I think
it's it's just changed. It's not necessarily that it's gone,
it's just it's gone. It's changed with the times. It's
a faster, more skill based game and because of that,
(23:49):
you need to have a physically you need to have physicality,
but you need to have it in the right way
that can fit into what the game is now. Right.
But you know, I hope that that role never goes away.
You know, it gave so many guys a chance to
play in the league that probably never would have had
a chance to play in the league. And I think
that's one thing that's really cool about the NHL. So
I hope it doesn't go away completely. But I think
(24:10):
as long as you have superstars, you're gonna have to
have somebody to protect them.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
No, you are.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I've got to ask this. It's completely subjective. This is
this is typical dumb sports talk stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, all right, pound for pound?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Who's your guy? Who's your fighter? Who's the guy? If
you get one fighter to put on your team all time?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Man, Yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Because you do have to kind of consider, well, I
don't want him to just be a goon, like can you
bring anything?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And yet there?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I mean, are you talking like modern times or just
any any time here?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Anytime? Anytime, anytime?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, Bob Proverb. Yeah, I mean the scariest guy on
the ice, like nobody wanted to fight him randomly for years,
and he also won games and scored goals and was
an incredible player. I mean, you know he and so yeah,
I would say, Bob Probert, it's just no question. I mean,
if I just want somebody to go out there and
(25:10):
you know, beat the lifting crap out of somebody, you know,
Derek Dugard, Yeah, the bookiey man for sure. Yeah. Sean
Avery is another one too.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, twist or somebody like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but Bober, Okay,
I got you. I completely understand.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay here in Denver, Okay, good, pretty good hockey program
going University of Denver.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You're a college guy.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
What are the key differences between coaching at that collegiate
level as opposed to the NHL.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, totally, you know, I mean, I think the biggest
thing is, again, they're they're adults, like you know, where
in college you're you're really coaching. You know, you're coaching
them when they're still teenagers, right, you get them at eighteen,
and especially in hockey, you get them maybe eighteen nineteen,
and then they're in the show, right, so like you
don't necessarily get to work with them in their twenties,
and so you're really trying to mold them and help them,
(26:00):
you know, grow as young as young men, especially when
they're possibly going to go to the show right away
out of college after maybe a year or two. You
want to get them prepped as possible to be able
to handle what's coming at them, right, And that's why
you see a lot of these teams now taking these
eighteen nineteen year olds and having them stay with former
players you know, you see it here in San Jose,
(26:21):
like I see it all the time. You know, Celebrat
he's living with Thornton and Will Smith is living with Marlowe.
It's like that's the best education you're ever going to
get right there to play in the HL, right, and
so yeah, you know, but I think the biggest difference
is again, they're professionals. I mean, you know, these are
people that have families, their adults, like they make their
own decisions, so you can't it's really hard to be
(26:42):
you know, you see it. There are some coaches who
are truly player coaches that have a lot of success
in the professional league, but you need in the professional level,
it's hard to be that player's coach, right because again,
they've got agents, they've got contracts, they've got money, they've
got families. Like, so where is the you know, like
where in college, Like it's just you, like you're their parent.
(27:03):
There's nobody else there, right like, you know, So it's
just it's very it's very different in that sense. It's
a lot more raw, raw than it is like you know,
x's No's which is you know, I always say in
my job as a coach, you know, coaching was maybe
five ten percent of my job, right, there was a
lot more that went into it than that. I mean,
you know, the rest of it is is administration and
(27:25):
mental health.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
You know, you could just do the coaching part of it.
If you could just do that, that's the best job
in the world. It's the other thing, exactly, It's the
other stuff that kills you for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, that's that's the fun part.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, when you're when you're looking at you know, college hockey,
the travel, the time on the road, the time that
you got, how are you staying on top of academics
and that kind of How are you balancing that. It's
not like a football game you play on Saturday and
that's it. You guys are traveling, you're playing multiple times
a week. How do you balance that?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean that's it's a
really good question, and especially in my role now right,
so because I'm a faculty athletic rep. Now, so my
sole job is to make sure that our students are
succeeding in the classroom, our student athletes are succeeding in
the classroom. So, you know, I think it really depends
on the university. I think the biggest thing that you
have to have is a supportive faculty. You have to
have a good relationship between athletics and faculty because you
(28:19):
know they are leaving a lot. I mean, you know,
for example, we we in my university, we have a
conference where we play in Hawaii, So they're gone for
two weeks at a time to go to Hawaii and
play games. They're gone, you know our you know, our
golf teams, they miss Monday and Tuesday almost every week
for golf because they're traveling for tournaments. Like it's just
(28:40):
a way it is. So you know, for us, we
procter exams on the road or or at back at
the campus after they come back. You know, I really
push our students to get their work done before they leave.
Be ahead of the game, don't fall behind. And usually
you know, we've won our conference academic award. I think
it's eleven of the last fourteen years, so we've really done.
(29:03):
The guy who was in my role before me, his
name shout out to doctor Leeds. He was amazing at
his job. He was one of the best bars and
one of the best people, and he did a great
job of really setting the culture of like you need
to communicate with your professors. You need to make sure
you're catching up and staying up on all your work.
You need to make sure that you know if you're missing,
you're doing it all. And you know, and we've seen
(29:25):
that the students who succeed do all that. The ones
who struggle, they don't. And it's hard. I mean, you
know a lot of these teams are traveling all the time,
and they're gone for long periods, long stretches. But you know,
you really just have to make sure that the coaches
are following through on the academics as much as the players. Right,
are you doing study hall on the road or are
(29:46):
you getting all that work done? You know, it's just
so imperative.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I've got to ask.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I wasn't prepared to ask the squat, what in the
world is the eyesight in Hawaii?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
How in the world is is that just slush? It's
got to be the slowest side he's been on.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, it's it's not great. It's it's not great. Uh yeah,
but you know, you know, if you if you close
the doors tight enough and you make it cold enough
any ice, so we are right, it don't work. I'm
in California I know, like, oh, you're right, you know,
the ice is gonna be brutal, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, no, the driver's gonna get
is gonna get his gas mileg.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
In that night. But a lot of scrape off.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah yeah, And I know that, And you know this,
we probably depend on it too much. But with all
of your research and all the things you've done, let
alone playing and coaching, and you're you're immersed in it.
I know that we like to follow as analytics. I
know that so many times we're probably too wrapped up.
What do they say about the physical play? What do
(30:46):
the analytics actually say?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I mean, so, I mean that that's definitely a big
piece that I did a lot. So, like in the
section of the dissertation, you always do a literature review,
So I talked a lot about that in the literature review,
where you know, there the statistics say that the physicality,
you know, the hitting is important, Like you know, they
recognize that hitting is important. But again, as long as
(31:08):
you're doing it legally and in the right way, it's good.
As soon as it's an illegal hit, it's so detrimental
to the point where you tend to lose games because
of it, right. I'll say that part of my research
was was I watched games. So I watched, I watched
and actually tracked four games, but you know, I of
(31:29):
course watched more than that. And what I noticed is
that the team that was more physical and the team
that had the fight won the game in all three
instances of the games that I watched, so and it
specifically won the fight, not necessarily started the fight, but
won the fight, because there were a couple of times
where the other team started the fight, but the other
team won the fight and they won the game. And
(31:50):
so that was interesting to me as well to actually
see that because there's no real statistics out there that say, like,
you win the fight, win the game, because nobody says
who wins or loses other than like the right, so
you know, but yeah, I mean statistically, why is they
say that fighting is detrimental because you know, you have
somebody in the box for five minutes, and especially now
(32:11):
with the instigator rule is you could also add a
two minute penalty on top of it, So they say
that it's not effective in that sense. They everybody agrees
that physicality is effective in the playoffs, but fighting is
not effective during the season right statistically right speaking, but
it's it's wrong, right, It's completely wrong because how many
(32:31):
you don't see a ton of instigator penalties because they
all know now that they can't do that right. And
and again it's more about the psychological aspect that happens,
the cohesion the team that I mean, you see somebody fight,
what did all the players do? They always go to
commercial break. But if you look at a game, they
stand up and they hit the boards, right, they get
(32:52):
out of the box, they do the same thing. You
take that out of the game, where are you're building it?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And that's exactly what I was going to ask you
is they can say it's detrimental on the is it
detrimental in the locker room? Because a lot of times
that locker room is gonna is gonna kind of dictate
how that next game goes.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's not detrimental in that locker room.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Sometimes a lot of guys are living around and saying, no,
you got my back, let's go like And so.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I think it's if you're not doing it and you
got and some guy just got his face punched in
and and nobody backed him up, you know that's gonna
go right here, exactly right.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, Okay, I've got one final question, and I want
to thank you for your time. I want to thank
you for joining us on the dose. I'll be honest,
we don't talk a ton of hockey. Of obviously, we're
getting to that season we go hit the major sports.
But I love having an expert come in and explain
these things to us. So I'm going to I'm gonna
ask you a very pointed question. There are no wrong answers. Okay,
(33:50):
Who's winning the Stanley Cup this year?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Okay, all right, all right, that that's a good that's
a great question. I'm not gonna say Winnipeg because I
don't think they can do it. I just think they're
going to fall apart in the playoffs again like they
do every year. Yeah, I just tell a buck. I
don't trust them in the playoffs. No, right, I think
it's gonna be either. I think Colorado is scary. I think, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So much that they Yeah they are now yeah, weird.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Right the right. I'm really worried about Florida's health, so
I just don't think they can I don't think they're
going to sustain. I really like Dallas to be honest,
you really like Dallas, Like, I think they're I think
they're built for the playoffs. Like I know they've struggled
a little bit down the stretch here. You know, Ottinger
is the definitely biggest question mark going into the playoffs.
(34:45):
But man, from their first to their fourth line, they
are absolutely stacked. Like you know, so I I I really,
I'm gonna go Dallas. We're just gonna go with it.
We're going Dallas. Yeah, I don't think the East will.
I don't think the East is going to win. The
East is horrible this year.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well, and it's so funny because you know, you you
just look at straight at the records and you're like, oh,
capital is capital, and then you're like they're not, no, no, not.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Once you face the West, West is just so loaded.
It's so deep. You know, even a Saint Louis someone
like that.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You get a hot goalie, you get a team that's
just you know, getting production out of those deep lines,
and you're.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Like, yeah, the West just looks too deep and too stacked.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
The scary part to me is that Colorado is probably
have to face Allison the first round, and yeah, I know,
Mika's gonna light us up, and I just get I'm
gonna sob every time he scores.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
But oh man, yeah, well and and and I think
with Washington, like with Obie winning getting the goal record,
I think a lot of the season had to do
with that. They were rallying behind that.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
You're right, they're going.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
To go right back down to earth, Like I just
I don't see them sustaining.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
You know, well, they had such a lead, they had
nothing to play for except for that, and that's all
they've been playing for. Well, now the real season starts
right exactly. Now it gets serious. Now it's playtime is over.
So well, doctor Sammy, I want to thank you. I
want to ask you. Is there anywhere that people can
follow your work? Is there any whether they can keep
up with you, know, your thoughts on what you have
going on.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Where's the best place to find you?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah, for sure. So if you want to read the dissertation,
it is. It's a live and published on ProQuest as
well as Dominican Scholar. If you search the name of
the title of the of the dissertation into Google scholar,
it'll show up so or my name as well. And yeah,
it's about one hundred and seventy five pages. A bit
(36:32):
of a long read, but sure. If you're interested in
reading more about it, definitely check it out or follow
me on on on Instagram at coach Sammy Lax. I
talk a lot about sports on there, and especially like
my university and things like that. So yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I want to thank you so much for visiting The Dose.
We appreciate it. I would I would ask that we
not be strangers. I would love to have you back
again sometime, talk hockey, talk whatever. You can come in
and talk lacross if you want. But I really really
enjoyed our visits. I want to thank you so much
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it,
and I would love to come back anytime and talk
sports in general. It's one of my favorite things to do,
so appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Hey, next week on the Dose, I actually have another
guest lined up that I think you're really going to enjoy.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
We have a basketball coach coming in that has.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Written a book about youth sports parents kind of overstepping
their bounds. Trust me, you will not want to miss it.
So make sure that you check out the deals next
week and be sure you let a friend know to
the same. Hey. I want to say thank you so
much to doctor Sammy Vogel Seidenberg for spending some time
with us today. I really enjoyed our conversation and hope
(37:38):
you will stay in touch. And I want to say
thank you to each and every one of you for
listening to the Dealer Dose every week. Thank for the emails,
thank for the text thank for the tweets, thank you
for going over to Dailydoll Sports dot com and checking
out the new things going up there every week.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But more than anything, thank.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
For sharing the shot, for sharing the videos, for sharing
the articles with something that you know we absolutely love
it when you do that. I have to say thank
you to Jesse B. Could not do any of this
about you. I will see you all next Wednesday. Have
a great week, everybody,
Wednesday, April sixteenth, twenty twenty five, you are listening to
the Daily Dose Sports podcast and I am your host,
Clint Daily, coming to you from the Mile High City
here in Denver, Colorado, and we are back for another
week of talking sports with a dose of common sense.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Hey, Happy Wednesday. Do you hope your week is going well?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
You, your family, your friends, everyone is staying strong and
healthy in your world right now? And you know, we
are actually right now hitting another one of those fun
seasons of the year. And no it's not the best,
but it's good because we actually will have some things
to watch in the world of sports over the next
(00:45):
few weeks. Of course, over the weekend we saw Rory
McElroy finally win the Masters. No, it wasn't easy, it
wasn't always pretty. I mean it started slow and it's low.
Somehow he still managed to win. But that long elusive
(01:05):
Grand Slam title is now his pretty fun to watch
on Sunday or over the weekend. And now we have
the NBA Playoffs getting underway, The Stanley Cup Playoffs are
getting ready to get started. The NFL Draft is going
to be here later this month. I mean, the INN
five hundred is coming. The Kentucky Derby is coming. Get
(01:26):
ready for a month or two of really really fun
stuff and then we're gonna hit that long, boring summer
of just nothing but baseball and falling asleep in front
of the TV as you drop qwdo's in your lap
and have an orange beard around your mouth. But hey,
(01:49):
right now, yeah, we're getting into another fun time of year.
Speaking of those Stanley Cup playoffs, We're actually going to
be talking a little bit of hockey today. I know
we don't do it a lot, but we're going to
be joined today by a very special guest, and we're
going to discuss a number of things. In fact, we
(02:09):
have so much to get to today we need to jump
into that right now. Joining us this week on the
Daily Dos, I have got a guest that I'm looking
forward to talking to you because he's got some really
interesting things to talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Here.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
I want to make sure I pronounce this correctly, doctor
Sammy Vogel Seidenberg.
Speaker 2 (02:27):
Did I get that right?
Speaker 3 (02:28):
That was perfect? Wow?
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That was excellent? All right?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Well, Doctor Sammy is a professor and faculty athletic representative
at Dominican University in California, where he has spent years
getting this next generation of athletes and sports leaders ready
for whatever they're going to do in life. He's also
a former NCAA head lacrosse coach and an assistant athletic director.
He's got a big background and coaching, recruiting, sports administration.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
You know, I love that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1 (02:56):
But here's the stuff that really sets them apart that
I can't wait to tikim about because doctor Vogel Seidenberg
recently completed his PhD in sports leadership. With his dissertation
titled the Role of Physicality in Professional Hockey. He examines
the impact of fighting and a hitting on gameplay, team dynamics,
(03:18):
and success. Yes, I can't wait to break this down.
I've ever wondered how physical play influences how a team
is playing, whether fighting still should be in the game. Today, Yeah,
we're going to drill down on all this, Doctor Sammy,
welcome to the show.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
Thank you for joining us today on the Daily Dost.
Speaker 3 (03:40):
Thank you for having me. I'm really excited about it.
Thanks for the kind introduction, and yeah, looking forward to
talking about the dissertation and all the other stuff. It's
definitely been a wild ride for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:49):
You've got some really really interesting things to talk about here.
First off, I want to get into this where did
you grow up? Where are you from originally?
Speaker 3 (03:57):
Yeah, so I'm originally from the East Coast. I grew
in New Jersey. I was out there for about fourteen years,
and then in high school, family up and moved to
southern California. So changing lifestyles a little bit down, you know,
going from winter he called New Jersey to sunny, warm
southern California. So yeah, I was out there for a while,
and then you know, went to university up in northern
(04:20):
California and bounced around a bit with different jobs and careers.
I was in Canada playing hockey a little bit. I
was down in southern California in the film industry for
a little while, and then went into coaching. And I
was in Pittsburgh and in Idaho before I ended up
here in northern California at Dominican.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
So where in southern California were you? Where did you
go to high school?
Speaker 3 (04:40):
I went to Westley High School in Wesley Village. It's
right like if most people know thousand Oaks, that tends
to be the more popular.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Okay, Okay, I got you what sports did you grow
up playing. Did you play everything like a lot of
us did, or did you were you kind of a
you know, hockey lacross guy or did you kind of
play anything?
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Yeah? No, I mean hockey was my first sport. I
started playing hockey when I three. That was kind of
like the big passion for me, and I played pretty
much everything else. Hockey and lacrosse ended up being like
the final two that I did throughout you know, middle school,
high school, in college. But I did, you know, soccer
and basketball and baseball, and I was big into the
extreme sports as well. I was a skateboarder, snowboarder, surfer,
(05:19):
all that stuff. But I never did football. That was
one sport I didn't do. I did wrestling, you know,
I kind of tried it all, but if it ever
started to conflict with hockey lacrosse, it had to go.
So I did cross country and track and field in
high school. So I mean, I've done pretty much most
sports except for football.
Speaker 1 (05:38):
As a hockey player, and I know we're going to
talk kind of anything, but as a hockey player, what
kind of player were you? What position are you playing?
What were you what were you on ice?
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yeah? For sure. So I started off playing offense. I
was a left wing center. I ended up stopping and
playing goalie for a couple of years, and then I
won a championship with my youth team, and then was like,
all right, I did my job. Now gonna go back
to playing out. So I went back to playing left
wing and center, and so I did that for the
rest of my career. I was a you know, I'm
(06:09):
not the biggest guy. I'm you know, five nine, so
I'm not you know, I'm not super tall, and I
don't necessarily have the hockey build. But I was a grinder.
I was a grit and grind kind of guy. I
got in a lot of fights. I uh, you know,
I was the guy scoring a couple you know, I
just didn't score a ton of goals. I got a
lot of assists. I got a lot of those grind
you know, banging in the front of the that type
of goals, you know, being in the right place, that
(06:30):
kind of stuff. More so than the finesse or flash
guys that you see today.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Well then it's no wonder that you kind of went
the direction you went with, you know, the physicality and
hockey and that kind of thing because that was kind.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Of the way you played.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
How did you go from playing and then and then
kind of transitioning over into that coaching side.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Yeah, so so, you know, I mean, I I my
senior year of college. You know, I was playing both
sports and I finished my hockey season, started my lacrosse season,
and uh and I ended up blowing out my knee.
And when that happened, it kind of was like, you know,
that was it for my lacross season. I couldn't finish out.
And I actually started coaching the women's lacrosse team at
my school. They needed a coach and so I was like, sure,
(07:11):
I'll help out. And that was kind of my first
intro into coaching. And then I ended up working in
the film industry and doing that, and I was miserable.
It was rough, like it was you know, it was
a lot of work. It was hard. Two years of
that and I just I was ready to move on
to something else. I was coaching a high school team.
I had a lot of success, and somebody took a
chance on me. I got a job coaching on the
East Coast at a college called Washington Jefferson College. It's
(07:33):
a D three school. And you know, do that for
a little bit and then ended up getting the head
coaching job at the University of Idaho, and I was
able to turn that program into a perennial two three
win program, not making playoffs to first year we went
seven and seven, didn't make playoffs. Second year we had
our first winning season in program history, made it to
the PNCl finals, lost in the finals. So you know,
(07:55):
I was able to turn that program around, and then
got the job at Dominican, and you know, it was
coming into a really interesting situation. They were a program
that didn't have a lot. They were D two and
then we got moved to club, but the university was
still running it as an NSULA program. You know, with
all that you had to follow the rules and do
all those things, and so my goal was always to
(08:18):
get us back to the NSULA. So in my nine
years there, I was able to build the team up
to being pretty successful, to adding a women's across team
and being the first NSULA D two women's across team
in California, and then getting the team back to Division
two as of last year. So it's it's it's been
awrve for sure.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
No doubt. Holy cow, that's quite a road you took
to get there. I got to ask this, and I
always ask coaches this, Sure you you played, you went
through that you transition over to coaching.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
I usually get one or two sides.
Speaker 1 (08:52):
Either you you had a coach that you were like, No,
that was a mentor that was someone who changed my life,
or I never had that and I wanted to go
go find my way. Did you have a coach that
impacted you that kind of made you want to go
into coaching?
Speaker 3 (09:05):
Yeah, I know for sure. I mean I definitely had
some not great coaches growing up, and you know, and
I definitely knew what I needed in a coach. And
I had a college coach that I owe everything too.
I mean he was his name's Tony Savaggio. You know,
took a rag tag program at where I went to college,
at humblet And and you know, basically we were like,
(09:27):
we need a coach, come in, help us, like, help
us build this thing back up. And he put his blood,
sweat and tears into it. He really cared about his players.
He's a players coach, like you know, you see him
ten years later and he's given you the biggest hug
of your life, you know, that kind of guy and
you know, just just an amazing, amazing man who you know,
helped me really understand like what a coach should be,
(09:48):
you know, and building that type of relationship. And so
for me, I don't necessarily know if that's why the
reason I got into coaching, but it was definitely a
big part of like who I am as a coach
and and relationship building and and you know, I always
have loved sports, and I think that was just a
part of my life and I felt like I wanted
to do a career in it, and coaching made sense
to me. I feel like, i'm I want to learn,
(10:10):
I'm i'm a i'm a I want to I want
to study and learn a lot and uh and then
you know, I love, you know, leading young men. I mean,
I think you know, the ability to be a leader
and help these these kids not just become you know,
better athletes, but more importantly better people. And and that's
always been what I've done as a coach is focused on, Hey,
I want them to be better people and better young
(10:32):
men than when I when I got them. And that's
more important than wins and losses in my.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Mind, absolutely, because you know, at the end of the day,
you're giving them lessons for life. And I know that's cliche,
and I know you know people say that, but you
really are. How many times do you go back, even
now and think back to something your coach you maybe
in middle school even and you're going, I still I
still follow that every single day. Yeah, that's that's what
a good coach should do. Hey, just a quick reminder,
(10:57):
mixture is dotten by dailydowsports dot com.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
Eat every week.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
You can see new articles there, you can get links
to the podcast or the video over there, and you
can get some Daily doo s gear. You need a
new T shirt, you need a new hoodie, you need
a new sweatshirt. Make sure you're swinging by dailydosports dot
com and checking out what we have going over there
every single week. Now, let's get back to our discussion
with doctor Samuel Vogel Seidenberg. Okay, gotta grilled down on
(11:22):
this though, because you have a very unique outlook on
the role of physicality. Now, I will say, from my perspective,
I was a high school basketball coach. I coach guys
and I coach girls. We always said, the more physical
team is going to win. That's just how it is.
People might not like that. That might offend some people
that don't like that. And most physical team wins if
(11:42):
you can do it within the rules of the game,
most physical team wins. How do you view physicality, especially
in the world of hockey, where physicality to me is huge.
You go see that hit stat up there, and you go, now,
I can probably tell at least an idea who's winning
this game.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Totally. Totally. Yeah, I mean, I think it's so important,
and that was really what I wanted to prove with
my dissertation. And you know, whenever you're going into this
type of research, you really have to come into it
with like no opinion, right, Like that's what they tell you.
Come in with no opinion, and you'll see what happens.
But of course, like I'm going to be biased a
little bit because of my background and all that stuff,
(12:19):
so it's hard to not have opinion. But you know,
I tried to do as much research as I could
into what research has done in the past, and what
I was able to find is that most of the
research done in the past on physicality and fighting and
hitting and hockey is was all statistical based. So they're
strictly looking at the statistics and how it affects the game,
and what's been found is that it actually doesn't help
(12:41):
at all, and it doesn't and it almost hurts it
because you know, you're taking penalties and there's all these
things that go into that. That's what the statistics say,
but at the end of the day, the statistics is
only one piece of it. And when you're talking about
something that impacts mentally and physically, you can't just look
at statistics. So right, you know, that was really where
I was coming from and where the direction kind of went,
(13:03):
and maybe I didn't necessarily expect it to go that way.
Was more of the mental aspect of the of the
fighting and hitting and what it can do in different situations. So,
I mean, I think it's super important. I think if
it's done correctly right, and like you said, like there's
a piece of it when it comes to by the
rules of the game, but I think even more than that,
(13:24):
it's it's the sense of you know, being able to
do it in a way that makes sense. Right. When
we talk about fighting in hockey, there are two different
styles of fighting, right, there's the stage fight and then
there's the organic fight, the thing that just kind of happens, right,
And the stage fight is not influential at all. It
doesn't help, it doesn't do anything, right, but the fight
(13:44):
we agree with you, right exactly, But the organic fight
is what really makes a difference. And it's the same
thing with hitting, right, and because they're trying to limit
those things, it's honestly made the sport more dangerous at times.
And that was another piece that came through in the
research as well, which was pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (14:00):
That is interesting, I'm gonna ask you right now, can
you drill down on that?
Speaker 2 (14:03):
Why is it more dangerous when you don't.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Have it right? Totally? So when you look at it
from the perspective of you know, fighting, let's look at
that for first off, right, So you know with the
QMGHL just just band fighting, right, So there's no fighting
in the QMGHL anymore. And you have a ton of
players who come from that league that's one of the
biggest feeder leagues to the NHL. Right, You're not going
(14:25):
to also be able to fight at the US Hockey
Development League, right, And so what's happening is you know
these players are coming in the league and they're not
prepared for that type of physicality, and they're gonna get
in a fight. In the NHL, it's gonna happen, right,
whether you're a superstar or not. Look at maclin Selabrini
from the Sharks. That guy is a grit and grinder,
but he's also one of the best scorers so far
for the Sharks as a rookie, right. And you know,
(14:48):
but you look at a guy like Bidard who has
no physical sense, doesn't understand the physical game, and he
is struggling like he is struggling and he doesn't want
to get hit, right, And that makes a difference. And
so when the fighting side of things, you know, look,
certain people fight, certain people don't. But when you don't
have enforcers, everybody's going to have to fight at some point. Right.
(15:08):
You've taken out the enforcer role from the game. It's gone.
Ryan Reeves is in the AHL. There's no more enforces
in the NHL, right, the true role of it. So
everybody has to fight now, right, and so you're going
to have You're gonna have guys who don't know what
they're doing and they're gonna get hurt. You look at Rempey.
Matt Rempey, who was huge last year. You know, sensation
in the NHL and people love them, but look at
(15:30):
his face after a couple of weeks of fighting. It
was brutal because he had no idea what he was doing, right,
And so that almost makes it more dangerous. And then
in the fighting in the hitting aspect, when you know
that if I turn my back and I get hit,
I get this guy out of the gate, right. If
Connor McDavid is coming out with me at me and
I turn my back, I get Conor McDavid out of
(15:52):
the game. So coach isn't going to tell a player
to do that, but it's one of those situations where
it makes it more dangerous because these players are saying, well,
if I can get somebody out of the game for
an illegal hit, I'm going to do it right. And
then if they're not being hit in game at the
younger ages, they don't know how to take a hit.
And if you don't know how to take a hit,
(16:12):
that's when injuries happen. And you see more and more
superstars getting injured and being out for a long periods
of time during season because they're getting hit and they
don't know how to get hit, right. So I think
that's the one of the biggest issues here is when
it comes to the way the league is approaching these things,
is you know, is taking it out better or worse? Right,
(16:32):
you know, is not preparing these players to be able
to play at you know, when the guys are able
to skate almost thirty forty miles per hour on the
ice and then they get hit and they don't know
how to take that hit, it's really really dangerous. And
I agree with taking out hits to the head, like.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, so, and to be fair, going back the history
of the head, maybe they weren't frowned on like they
are now.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
But even then you're like, hey, you went high. That's
kind of so. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:01):
I think that's always kind of been the case. Obviously
with the way you view this. You look at the NHL.
It still needs it still needs fighting, doesn't it.
Speaker 2 (17:09):
It still needs Yeah yeah, and I know that to
sweep by a way, but you can't.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Yeah, no, you definitely can't. And that's really what what
I what came through in in this research, right. So
I was able to interview four x NHL players, which
was awesome, and then I was able to get questionnaires
from ten current NHL players, and not one of those
players said that they believe that fighting should be removed
(17:37):
from the game, and not one of them believe that
hitting should be root from the game. They do, they
all did agree that there was a sense of that
it's okay for these things to the rules are okay, right,
Like the new rules and stuff are okay as long
as we're not like taking it out and making sure
that these players are prepared when they get to this level.
(17:58):
I think that was a big piece as well as
the other thing that came up kind of organically and
from the interviews and from the the questionnaires was the
idea of intimidation. That was a huge piece for me
when it came to this research. I really wanted to
hit on intimidation and I didn't even have to ask
questions on it. They brought it up on their own,
And so for me that was a big piece and
(18:20):
a big eye opener that intimidation as a psychological tool
in hockey is even more important than the actual fighting
or hitting. Knowing that you're playing a more physical team
makes you play differently, makes you grip your stick right.
Knowing that you're have to deal with a fight or
somebody who's going to fight in a game makes you
play differently. And you know, there were guys who were
(18:40):
talking about that. They were like, I was a goon.
I didn't even have to fight. I would just talk.
I would just walk by the locker room and be like,
I'm coming for you. And that was enough for them
to grip their stick and make that mistake. Right. You
see those guys make like defensive players. Got a stick
in the corner and he sees someone coming full speed
from behind him and he throws it and it's like,
what is he doing? He's afraid that he's about to
(19:02):
get lit up, right, And so you know that was
a big piece as well.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
So talking you discussed a little bit about those psychological
effects of that physicality of knowing what about the guys
that's bringing the hit, what about the how's, how's the
what are the psychological effects of the guy, Hey, I
am kind of the enforcer. I am going to come
out and light you up.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Yeah, totally no, And the big you know, talking to
those guys like it's always fun, right because like they
just have such a perspective on the game that you
don't even think about. Like I had one guy I
talked to who went off on a little tangent about
the equipment. He's like, the equipment's too big, Like we
needed to be smaller because if I'm hitting somebody with
a kevlar elbow cap to the head, of course he's
(19:44):
gonna get knocked out. But if I was hitting them
with a little soft leather pad like I was used to,
he's not gonna get knocked out. So I was just like,
that's awesome. I love that.
Speaker 2 (19:53):
He's not wrong.
Speaker 1 (19:54):
I've always said, if you want to eliminate the head
hits in the NFL, you make those homets leather again
and they'll stop hitting with their head.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
Right, yeah, yeah no, And so I mean I love
that idea of like equipment being an issue. Right, So
that was one of the things that came up. And
then I think too from them for their perspective, like
you know, they understand that the enforcer role has just
changed now, Like you know, you have guys out there
who can play hockey and can still fight, you know,
Garnett Hathaway on the Flyers, and you know there's a
(20:23):
couple of guys on the blue jackets who play that way.
You know, things like that. You know even you know
they can they can play hockey, and they're good at
hockey and they're fast, but they still can play the
physical side. You need that. Every team has it, every
team needs it, every team wants it right. And one
of the things that they really mentioned was, you know,
play everybody wants the Tom Wilson, right, everybody wants to
(20:46):
Tom Wilson and the Brad Marshaan and the Matthew Kuchuk
and the Brady could Chuck. They want those guys, Like, yes,
everybody would love to have a McDavid, but McDavid is
you know McDavid and a dry cidle Anna McKinnon and
mccarr like those are ones in generation players, right, the
guys who can make more of an impact. Like you know,
we look at these little skilled guys and it's like cool,
(21:06):
this is great, but like I would rather have a
guy who can grind and muck it up in the corners,
but you can also score goals. Like you know, if
you're telling me I had the choice, you know between
Matthew ka Chuck and Tom Wilson over you know, our
Timmy Paneren or a like Fabian Zeterelund or you know
anybody like that. I would take those guys any day.
(21:28):
Like I would rather have Matthew Kachuck. I'm a Rangers fan.
I would rather have Matthew Matthew Kachuck than our Timmy Panera.
I love our Temmy Panera, yes, but Martemy Panerin in
the playoffs can't can't perform Matthika Chuck can't. Right, And
you see it with teams like Carolina, Right, that was
a big one that everybody talked about, is like this
is a team full of like mediocre players with nobody
(21:49):
with grit and grind, and it's all kind of skill based.
You just can't win that way. And you look at
the last few Cup winners, it's all physical teams and
guys who can grind.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
You talked a little bit about this already, but in
your research, enforcers have transition now to guys that can
can skate. I mean, is are we ever gonna have
enforces again? I again, I look at football and say,
you remember the big hitting safety, Yeah, those doesn't exist anymore.
That's a dinosaur? Are these are? Are they enforcers? Dinosaurs? Now?
Speaker 2 (22:20):
Have they have they changed so much they're they're unrecognizable.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, you know, I think it's more of what you
just said there. It's that they've changed so much that
it's almost unrecognizable, right, Like Ryan Reeves was kind of
the last of them, Like, you know, there's other guys
who can you know, I mean, Felino is a grit
and Ryan kind of guy. You know, Matthew chuck Is
and Brady are never gonna say no to throwing the
gloves down. But Tom Wilson doesn't really fight that much anymore,
(22:46):
you know, but he's known as that guy. Pat Maroon's
about to retire, So you know, you got a couple
other guys who who kind of can play that way,
but they're also relying on them to score goals. So
it's like, you know, they're they're more of the Bob
Probert type, right, And I think that's what we're going
to see. We're going to see a lot more Bob
Probert than we are Ty Domi and you know, and
(23:07):
Ryan Reeves and Derek Buguard and those guys, Like, we're
going to see a lot more of the guy who
can put up twenty thirty goals a season, but can also,
you know, punch somebody's lights out, right, you know, or
you're going to see fourth line guys like Matt Rempey
and Barkley Goodrow and those kind of guys who you
know will muck it up and will grit and grind,
but and will not score a lot of goals, but
(23:28):
you're not they They got to be able to skate,
and they got to be able to keep up with
the pace. And I got to be able to put
my fourth line out against the first line and they
can still succeed. Right, So the enforcer role, I think
it's it's just changed. It's not necessarily that it's gone,
it's just it's gone. It's changed with the times. It's
a faster, more skill based game and because of that,
(23:49):
you need to have a physically you need to have physicality,
but you need to have it in the right way
that can fit into what the game is now. Right.
But you know, I hope that that role never goes away.
You know, it gave so many guys a chance to
play in the league that probably never would have had
a chance to play in the league. And I think
that's one thing that's really cool about the NHL. So
I hope it doesn't go away completely. But I think
(24:10):
as long as you have superstars, you're gonna have to
have somebody to protect them.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
No, you are.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
I've got to ask this. It's completely subjective. This is
this is typical dumb sports talk stuff.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Okay, all right, pound for pound?
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Who's your guy? Who's your fighter? Who's the guy? If
you get one fighter to put on your team all time?
Speaker 3 (24:31):
Man, Yeah, that's a tough one.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Because you do have to kind of consider, well, I
don't want him to just be a goon, like can you
bring anything?
Speaker 2 (24:42):
And yet there?
Speaker 3 (24:44):
I mean, are you talking like modern times or just
any any time here?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
Anytime? Anytime, anytime?
Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, Bob Proverb. Yeah, I mean the scariest guy on
the ice, like nobody wanted to fight him randomly for years,
and he also won games and scored goals and was
an incredible player. I mean, you know he and so yeah,
I would say, Bob Probert, it's just no question. I mean,
if I just want somebody to go out there and
(25:10):
you know, beat the lifting crap out of somebody, you know,
Derek Dugard, Yeah, the bookiey man for sure. Yeah. Sean
Avery is another one too.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Yeah, twist or somebody like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, but Bober, Okay,
I got you. I completely understand.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
Okay here in Denver, Okay, good, pretty good hockey program
going University of Denver.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
You're a college guy.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
What are the key differences between coaching at that collegiate
level as opposed to the NHL.
Speaker 3 (25:37):
Yeah, totally, you know, I mean, I think the biggest
thing is, again, they're they're adults, like you know, where
in college you're you're really coaching. You know, you're coaching
them when they're still teenagers, right, you get them at eighteen,
and especially in hockey, you get them maybe eighteen nineteen,
and then they're in the show, right, so like you
don't necessarily get to work with them in their twenties,
and so you're really trying to mold them and help them,
(26:00):
you know, grow as young as young men, especially when
they're possibly going to go to the show right away
out of college after maybe a year or two. You
want to get them prepped as possible to be able
to handle what's coming at them, right, And that's why
you see a lot of these teams now taking these
eighteen nineteen year olds and having them stay with former
players you know, you see it here in San Jose,
(26:21):
like I see it all the time. You know, Celebrat
he's living with Thornton and Will Smith is living with Marlowe.
It's like that's the best education you're ever going to
get right there to play in the HL, right, and
so yeah, you know, but I think the biggest difference
is again, they're professionals. I mean, you know, these are
people that have families, their adults, like they make their
own decisions, so you can't it's really hard to be
(26:42):
you know, you see it. There are some coaches who
are truly player coaches that have a lot of success
in the professional league, but you need in the professional level,
it's hard to be that player's coach, right because again,
they've got agents, they've got contracts, they've got money, they've
got families. Like, so where is the you know, like
where in college, Like it's just you, like you're their parent.
(27:03):
There's nobody else there, right like, you know, So it's
just it's very it's very different in that sense. It's
a lot more raw, raw than it is like you know,
x's No's which is you know, I always say in
my job as a coach, you know, coaching was maybe
five ten percent of my job, right, there was a
lot more that went into it than that. I mean,
you know, the rest of it is is administration and
(27:25):
mental health.
Speaker 1 (27:27):
You know, you could just do the coaching part of it.
If you could just do that, that's the best job
in the world. It's the other thing, exactly, It's the
other stuff that kills you for sure.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, that's that's the fun part.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
Yeah, when you're when you're looking at you know, college hockey,
the travel, the time on the road, the time that
you got, how are you staying on top of academics
and that kind of How are you balancing that. It's
not like a football game you play on Saturday and
that's it. You guys are traveling, you're playing multiple times
a week. How do you balance that?
Speaker 3 (27:57):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean that's it's a
really good question, and especially in my role now right,
so because I'm a faculty athletic rep. Now, so my
sole job is to make sure that our students are
succeeding in the classroom, our student athletes are succeeding in
the classroom. So, you know, I think it really depends
on the university. I think the biggest thing that you
have to have is a supportive faculty. You have to
have a good relationship between athletics and faculty because you
(28:19):
know they are leaving a lot. I mean, you know,
for example, we we in my university, we have a
conference where we play in Hawaii, So they're gone for
two weeks at a time to go to Hawaii and
play games. They're gone, you know our you know, our
golf teams, they miss Monday and Tuesday almost every week
for golf because they're traveling for tournaments. Like it's just
(28:40):
a way it is. So you know, for us, we
procter exams on the road or or at back at
the campus after they come back. You know, I really
push our students to get their work done before they leave.
Be ahead of the game, don't fall behind. And usually
you know, we've won our conference academic award. I think
it's eleven of the last fourteen years, so we've really done.
(29:03):
The guy who was in my role before me, his
name shout out to doctor Leeds. He was amazing at
his job. He was one of the best bars and
one of the best people, and he did a great
job of really setting the culture of like you need
to communicate with your professors. You need to make sure
you're catching up and staying up on all your work.
You need to make sure that you know if you're missing,
you're doing it all. And you know, and we've seen
(29:25):
that the students who succeed do all that. The ones
who struggle, they don't. And it's hard. I mean, you
know a lot of these teams are traveling all the time,
and they're gone for long periods, long stretches. But you know,
you really just have to make sure that the coaches
are following through on the academics as much as the players. Right,
are you doing study hall on the road or are
(29:46):
you getting all that work done? You know, it's just
so imperative.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
I've got to ask.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
I wasn't prepared to ask the squat, what in the
world is the eyesight in Hawaii?
Speaker 2 (29:55):
How in the world is is that just slush? It's
got to be the slowest side he's been on.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, it's it's not great. It's it's not great. Uh yeah,
but you know, you know, if you if you close
the doors tight enough and you make it cold enough
any ice, so we are right, it don't work. I'm
in California I know, like, oh, you're right, you know,
the ice is gonna be brutal, you know.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
Oh yeah, yeah, oh yeah, no, the driver's gonna get
is gonna get his gas mileg.
Speaker 2 (30:22):
In that night. But a lot of scrape off.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah yeah, And I know that, And you know this,
we probably depend on it too much. But with all
of your research and all the things you've done, let
alone playing and coaching, and you're you're immersed in it.
I know that we like to follow as analytics. I
know that so many times we're probably too wrapped up.
What do they say about the physical play? What do
(30:46):
the analytics actually say?
Speaker 3 (30:48):
I mean, so, I mean that that's definitely a big
piece that I did a lot. So, like in the
section of the dissertation, you always do a literature review,
So I talked a lot about that in the literature review,
where you know, there the statistics say that the physicality,
you know, the hitting is important, Like you know, they
recognize that hitting is important. But again, as long as
(31:08):
you're doing it legally and in the right way, it's good.
As soon as it's an illegal hit, it's so detrimental
to the point where you tend to lose games because
of it, right. I'll say that part of my research
was was I watched games. So I watched, I watched
and actually tracked four games, but you know, I of
(31:29):
course watched more than that. And what I noticed is
that the team that was more physical and the team
that had the fight won the game in all three
instances of the games that I watched, so and it
specifically won the fight, not necessarily started the fight, but
won the fight, because there were a couple of times
where the other team started the fight, but the other
team won the fight and they won the game. And
(31:50):
so that was interesting to me as well to actually
see that because there's no real statistics out there that say, like,
you win the fight, win the game, because nobody says
who wins or loses other than like the right, so
you know, but yeah, I mean statistically, why is they
say that fighting is detrimental because you know, you have
somebody in the box for five minutes, and especially now
(32:11):
with the instigator rule is you could also add a
two minute penalty on top of it, So they say
that it's not effective in that sense. They everybody agrees
that physicality is effective in the playoffs, but fighting is
not effective during the season right statistically right speaking, but
it's it's wrong, right, It's completely wrong because how many
(32:31):
you don't see a ton of instigator penalties because they
all know now that they can't do that right. And
and again it's more about the psychological aspect that happens,
the cohesion the team that I mean, you see somebody fight,
what did all the players do? They always go to
commercial break. But if you look at a game, they
stand up and they hit the boards, right, they get
(32:52):
out of the box, they do the same thing. You
take that out of the game, where are you're building it?
Speaker 1 (32:56):
And that's exactly what I was going to ask you
is they can say it's detrimental on the is it
detrimental in the locker room? Because a lot of times
that locker room is gonna is gonna kind of dictate
how that next game goes.
Speaker 2 (33:10):
It's not detrimental in that locker room.
Speaker 1 (33:12):
Sometimes a lot of guys are living around and saying, no,
you got my back, let's go like And so.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
I think it's if you're not doing it and you
got and some guy just got his face punched in
and and nobody backed him up, you know that's gonna
go right here, exactly right.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Yeah, Okay, I've got one final question, and I want
to thank you for your time. I want to thank
you for joining us on the dose. I'll be honest,
we don't talk a ton of hockey. Of obviously, we're
getting to that season we go hit the major sports.
But I love having an expert come in and explain
these things to us. So I'm going to I'm gonna
ask you a very pointed question. There are no wrong answers. Okay,
(33:50):
Who's winning the Stanley Cup this year?
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Okay, all right, all right, that that's a good that's
a great question. I'm not gonna say Winnipeg because I
don't think they can do it. I just think they're
going to fall apart in the playoffs again like they
do every year. Yeah, I just tell a buck. I
don't trust them in the playoffs. No, right, I think
it's gonna be either. I think Colorado is scary. I think, yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
So much that they Yeah they are now yeah, weird.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
Right the right. I'm really worried about Florida's health, so
I just don't think they can I don't think they're
going to sustain. I really like Dallas to be honest,
you really like Dallas, Like, I think they're I think
they're built for the playoffs. Like I know they've struggled
a little bit down the stretch here. You know, Ottinger
is the definitely biggest question mark going into the playoffs.
(34:45):
But man, from their first to their fourth line, they
are absolutely stacked. Like you know, so I I I really,
I'm gonna go Dallas. We're just gonna go with it.
We're going Dallas. Yeah, I don't think the East will.
I don't think the East is going to win. The
East is horrible this year.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Well, and it's so funny because you know, you you
just look at straight at the records and you're like, oh,
capital is capital, and then you're like they're not, no, no, not.
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Once you face the West, West is just so loaded.
It's so deep. You know, even a Saint Louis someone
like that.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
You get a hot goalie, you get a team that's
just you know, getting production out of those deep lines,
and you're.
Speaker 2 (35:21):
Like, yeah, the West just looks too deep and too stacked.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
The scary part to me is that Colorado is probably
have to face Allison the first round, and yeah, I know,
Mika's gonna light us up, and I just get I'm
gonna sob every time he scores.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
But oh man, yeah, well and and and I think
with Washington, like with Obie winning getting the goal record,
I think a lot of the season had to do
with that. They were rallying behind that.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
You're right, they're going.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
To go right back down to earth, Like I just
I don't see them sustaining.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
You know, well, they had such a lead, they had
nothing to play for except for that, and that's all
they've been playing for. Well, now the real season starts
right exactly. Now it gets serious. Now it's playtime is over.
So well, doctor Sammy, I want to thank you. I
want to ask you. Is there anywhere that people can
follow your work? Is there any whether they can keep
up with you, know, your thoughts on what you have
going on.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Where's the best place to find you?
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Yeah, for sure. So if you want to read the dissertation,
it is. It's a live and published on ProQuest as
well as Dominican Scholar. If you search the name of
the title of the of the dissertation into Google scholar,
it'll show up so or my name as well. And yeah,
it's about one hundred and seventy five pages. A bit
(36:32):
of a long read, but sure. If you're interested in
reading more about it, definitely check it out or follow
me on on on Instagram at coach Sammy Lax. I
talk a lot about sports on there, and especially like
my university and things like that. So yeah, perfect.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
I want to thank you so much for visiting The Dose.
We appreciate it. I would I would ask that we
not be strangers. I would love to have you back
again sometime, talk hockey, talk whatever. You can come in
and talk lacross if you want. But I really really
enjoyed our visits. I want to thank you so much
for joining us.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it,
and I would love to come back anytime and talk
sports in general. It's one of my favorite things to do,
so appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Hey, next week on the Dose, I actually have another
guest lined up that I think you're really going to enjoy.
Speaker 2 (37:15):
We have a basketball coach coming in that has.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Written a book about youth sports parents kind of overstepping
their bounds. Trust me, you will not want to miss it.
So make sure that you check out the deals next
week and be sure you let a friend know to
the same. Hey. I want to say thank you so
much to doctor Sammy Vogel Seidenberg for spending some time
with us today. I really enjoyed our conversation and hope
(37:38):
you will stay in touch. And I want to say
thank you to each and every one of you for
listening to the Dealer Dose every week. Thank for the emails,
thank for the text thank for the tweets, thank you
for going over to Dailydoll Sports dot com and checking
out the new things going up there every week.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
But more than anything, thank.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
For sharing the shot, for sharing the videos, for sharing
the articles with something that you know we absolutely love
it when you do that. I have to say thank
you to Jesse B. Could not do any of this
about you. I will see you all next Wednesday. Have
a great week, everybody,
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