May 30, 2025 • 50 mins
An engaging and inspiring conversation with Kansas City area golf course designer Chuck Ermisch, who has worn all hats in the golf industry, and whose latest design projects and business plan have a strong humanitarian side. Great stories filled with some of the biggest names and locations in the game!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Danny Klinkscale Reasonably Irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten Path.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to Kansas City Profiles presented by Easton Roofing, and
a fascinating golf journey and life journey with Chuck Irmish.
He is the owner of Global Impact Golf LLC as
well as Irmish Golf Architecture, and he has been involved
in just about every aspect of the golf business from
construction and architecture, design and so on and so forth,
(00:39):
and currently is working on two amazing overseas projects. He's
got all kinds of great stories that involved the likes
of Jack Nicholas and Nick Faldo and Greg Norman. It
is a cool ride for somebody who grew up in
Von Teraire, Missouri, in a golf course community, went to
Kansas State and got his Bachelor of Landscape Architecture to
(01:00):
and since then has moved through the golf industry in many,
many different ways that we'll hear about here. He's overcome
some personal tragedies. He is a man of faith who
now wants to give back as far as humanitarian efforts
that go along with his golf projects as well. If
you are interested in golf, are just interested in an
(01:20):
amazing life story. Our conversation with Chuck Ermish is a
great one. It is our Kansas City profile presented by
Eastern Roofing, and it starts next.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast After this.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
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Speaker 5 (04:05):
The evolution of the menu, Danny has gone through quite
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(04:25):
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Speaker 4 (04:26):
And we always have new pasta.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Dishes and always new things that we try to do
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If you'd like to join these and other fine sponsors
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Speaker 8 (05:07):
Jack.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
You're a Missouri boy growing up in Bontare, Missouri, a
golf course community. Tell me a little bit about young Chuck.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
Young Chuck was a very creative kid, kind of nerdy
to be honest, But I always had a planning type
of mind where I could see things that most people couldn't.
So I knew I wanted to get into some sort
of planning or design profession, but I really didn't know what.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Did you play a lot? Of golf as a youngster.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
I did. Actually, my parents belonged to a golf club
and they got me involved at an early age. I
think I was about twelve when I swung my first
club and going through high school. The community was living
in actually added nine holes to their existing eighteen.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
And it fascinated me.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
So I got out to kick the dirt around with
the contractor and things started coming together in my mind
that hey, this is kind of fun. And contractor kind
of took me under his arm and said that I
had a very good eye and he would always pick
my brain on what I thought was happening and how.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I thought the golf holes were.
Speaker 8 (06:26):
Looking, and I would just give him an honest answer,
and he took that and strongly encouraged me to pursue
golf course as some sort of future.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
What kind of a player were you and are you?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
You know?
Speaker 8 (06:38):
I yeah, I was much better when I was younger,
but I'm to the point now where I'm eight handicapped.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Right, Well, that's still pretty good.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So did you have any designs on playing golf at all?
Speaker 8 (06:54):
You know, I really didn't. I didn't want to play golf,
but I always kind of thought it'd be fun to
be a caddy, and that in my mind. That's how
my mind works though, because again I see things and
I'm pretty creative, and sometimes that doesn't translate to actual ability.
But if I could ever hook up with somebody who
(07:15):
had the ability and listen to me, then that would
be perfect.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
You ended up going to k State, which isn't isn't
unusual for somebody who wants to be involved in working
in the golf business. Tell me about your times in Manhattan.
Speaker 8 (07:31):
Manhattan was a very fun time. That was, as you mentioned,
the way to go if you wanted to get into
the golf industry. So I went through the landscape architecture
program and it was difficult at best, but I survived.
We started with thirty seven kids in my landscape architecture
(07:53):
class and we graduated seventeen, So I think I did
pretty good.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, I dated it an architecture student in college, and
I didn't see her very much.
Speaker 9 (08:03):
So Yeah, we had we had beds under our studio tables,
and you know, we would we would pull the all
nighters quite often, and I was actually pretty lucky.
Speaker 8 (08:15):
My college roommate and I we were both landscape architects.
And both of us wanted to get into the golf business,
and we had a professor who was in the golf
business and had built courses in a previous life before
coming becoming a professor, so he kind of took us
in and kind of gave us the ropes and would
(08:38):
kind of maneuver some projects that were just planning projects
to include a golf course just for us too, So
that was that was really cool experience. And then they
did a winter intercession also that we got involved in,
and we actually learned a lot from that because it
was much more laid back and much more in depth
as far as golf planning.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
So that was very formative for me.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, kind of a serendipitous move was the fact that
your parents moved to Jacksonville and that was about the
time that you're getting ready to come out of college
and you got involved with the business right away down there.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I did.
Speaker 8 (09:18):
I did. I actually did my internship at TPC at
Sawgrass and it was an outstanding opportunity and I really
didn't know what I was getting into, but it was maintenance,
but it was also an in house construction project and
they were adding on some square footage to greens and
redoing some bunker faces and things like that, and so
(09:42):
I got hands on experience as far as Okay, how
do pow.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Are things built like? You know? And how does that
relate back to design?
Speaker 8 (09:51):
And in that time, another serendipitous happening occurred and I
met the chief designer for the PGA at the time, which.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Was Bobby Weed.
Speaker 8 (10:02):
And Bobby invited me into his office because he had
caught one that I wanted to get into the design industry.
And it was rather funny because he's like, bring your resume.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
So I took what I thought was a.
Speaker 8 (10:17):
Resume, which was basically every class I'd ever taken at
CA State because I had no experience. And he looked
it over and looked up and peered at me through
his glasses and took the resume and threw it in
the garbage and said, son, that's that's not a resume,
that's uh, you have no experience. And I said, I know,
that's why I'm you're talking to you right, And he
(10:40):
immediately gave me four phone numbers of contractors that he
knew personally that we're hiring, and he goes, you need
to do construction, you need to do construction for about
three years and then come back and talk to me.
And I took his advice and ended up in Naples,
Florida the next summer and built a Robert Trent Jones
Junior course and really got my hands dirty, and it
(11:03):
was the best experience.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I've ever had.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, you installed irrigation and drainage, and while it's a
great learning experience, it sounds like real hard work, yes.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
But it was mixed with fun. You know, when you're
nineteen twenty years old and kind of you know, stepping
out on your own.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
And I had actually just turned twenty one on a
September birthday.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
So.
Speaker 8 (11:29):
You know, work all day and have a little fun
at night, and then do it all over again.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So at this point in time, you it was kind
of perfect because you could live with your parents and
save a little money and do stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Right, correct, correct.
Speaker 8 (11:44):
So I'm not sure that they really enjoyed me living
there with the hours that I was keeping, but you know,
it was it was a good experience.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Well, you obviously got your teeth into it in Florida,
but you felt like you wanted to come back to
the Middle West.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Yeah, I actually got.
Speaker 8 (12:02):
A little homesick in in South Florida and even in Jacksonville.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
You know, it was.
Speaker 8 (12:08):
It was not what I considered home and I I
just had an opportunity to move back up to this
area and glad that I did. I ended up in Joplin,
Missouri and got hooked on with Mid America Golfing Landscape
out of Least Summit and we were doing a basically
(12:30):
a redesign or reconstruction of Twin Hills and Joplin and
mister Don Seacrest, the late Don Seacrest, was the architect
on the project, and Don and I got to be
really good friends just through that project. And at the
end of it, he said that he potentially had an
(12:50):
opening for a design rep for his company, and I
jumped all over that and again it was a great move,
and Don and I did some really good work.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
He other.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
My first actual design project was Mazingo at Maryville, Missouri,
and then I also helped on Adam's Point, did basically
all the design on that, and then Nine Hole Edition
at Whiteman Air Force Base, amongst a few other you
know projects regionally for Don that didn't actually go, but
(13:24):
you know it was, it was good design practice so
to speak, and got some master pointing in my belt.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
So what is it? I really was back into design.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So go into the mechanics of you know, Don Seacrest
is the one who a lot of times is going
to have his name on the golf course and so
talk about the collaborative aspect of that.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
Okay, yeah, so the collaboration on that as I learned
a lot from Don, and Don was a very good
teacher actually, and it was exactly what I needed at
the time.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Don realized that.
Speaker 8 (13:56):
I had some talent, and he also knew that I
had the construction experience, and that I think is really
the reason that he hired me was because I could,
you know, not only put it on paper, but I
could also have an understanding then of okay, this is
how it was built. So my designs were stronger at
that age in my career. And you know, Don would
(14:19):
take me into the meetings and he kind of taught
me the ropes of you know, hey, this is how
the businesses run, this is how meetings go, this is
you know, the process of a project. And honestly, I
owe a lot to Don, and you know it, he
(14:40):
just kind of I didn't necessarily pick up his style,
but I did pick up a lot of things from
him that made sense to me, Like, you know, the
more natural the golf course peers. That's a good thing,
and you know, you tie in the edges of the
golf course and everything else will kind of take care
of itself. And you know it it's all about just
(15:01):
you know, understanding the client, understanding what their desires and
goals are for the project, and then delivering a design
that kind of matches that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So get people a time frame here where we're talking
at this point in time when you're doing some of
these projects.
Speaker 6 (15:19):
Where are we in time?
Speaker 8 (15:21):
So this was probably nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety seven ish,
and you know, so I'm I graduated in ninety two,
so you know, I'm four years out of college, right,
you know, I'm still still a young man and still
have a lot to learn. But you know, the beauty
(15:41):
of that was that don he understood that I was green,
so to speak. So a few mistakes here and there,
you know, he worked me through and that's really I
needed that at that time.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, you mentioned that's not all project go from, you know,
starting up to completion fruition as it were, and one
of those was the Top of the Rock in Branson,
where you built a few holes and somebody famous ended
up taking your work.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Yeah, that was a very interesting event.
Speaker 8 (16:21):
Don and I did the original routing for Top of
the Rock, and as you said, we actually had about
four holes of it built. And we were out in
the field one day and Johnny Morris comes out and
calls Don over to the side, and of course, you know,
Don goes over and I can see Don's reaction during
(16:41):
the whole conversation, and I see Johnny, you know, like
talking to him. But the conversation wasn't great. Let's put
it that way, right, And you know Don, Don's kind
of got his head down a little bit and turned around,
starts walking towards me and still has his head down,
but looks up and winks at me, and I was like,
(17:02):
that's interesting. So we get back in Down's vehicle and
he goes, well, we were just fired, and I was like, well,
that's not great. He goes, well, he goes, Johnny took
care of us. He uh, you know, we actually got
our entire contract plus ten percent, and he decided that
he wanted to go another way, and I was like, Oh,
(17:23):
I said, that's that's interesting. He goes, yeah, that's the
best project that I've ever lost. So you know it's.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
Uh because you lost it too.
Speaker 8 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, you didn't mention who you lost it to.
Speaker 8 (17:39):
Oh we lost it to Jack.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Nicholas the.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Sorry about that, but you know it's uh.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
Don.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Don was always kind.
Speaker 8 (17:50):
Of one of those architects. He was a great regional architect.
He never got the respect nationally. I don't think that
he deserved. You know, he did great courses and that
that's why I really like working for him, because I've
always been kind of the same way. I fly under
the radar, and you know, I I've been blessed at
a career where I've worked with a lot of the big,
bigger names, and uh, you know, I understand the need
(18:13):
for the big name on some projects, but I've always
just kind of, you know, I believe in myself, I
believe in my abilities, and you know, I'm honored when
I do get to meet these these folks and work
with them. But I've been kind of just building my
career for my my own breakthrough, which I feel is
pretty close.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Actually now after this particular event, soon after you would
move into the area of starting your own company. Is
this about the time frame or what was it?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah, that's the exact time frame.
Speaker 8 (18:45):
So and I, you know, I hung my own shingle,
and it was it was a little slow, honestly at first,
because golf is really built on trust and and there's
all a lot of notoriety just in and having a
name and having.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Been involved in projects.
Speaker 8 (19:05):
I mean, that's you know, it's like any new business,
You've got to kind of build your own reputation and
you've got to kind of work your way into it
through connections and contacts. And luckily, you know, I promoted
myself well with having the construction experience and then also
having designed and that that kind of went well to
(19:26):
talking with, you know, people who are doing innovation projects
or people who were doing you know, new projects, because
it did add some credibility the fact that I actually
had experience.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So at the outset, what was your first big event
as far as your own company was concerned.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
As far as my own company was concerned, I would
say that I really got my chance in Seneca, Kansas.
And Seneca, Kansas is in north central Kansas town of
about thirty five hundred people, and they had been looking
to basically build a new golf course because they hadn't
(20:03):
existing golf course, but there were some safety hazards on it.
One of the holes actually hit over at the corner
at the track of the high school and there were a.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Couple of kids who got hit, and the city realized, hey, we.
Speaker 8 (20:16):
Can't continue to do this, so we need to, you know,
maybe look into building it a much nicer.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Facility, and it fit their growth.
Speaker 8 (20:26):
Model for the city. So I worked with them for
about two years prior to the golf course, even going
to construction on Okay, how do we put this together
in a way that is a affordable and b really
gives you the room for expansion, And they were looking
at doing a housing community involved with it. And it
(20:50):
was a very unique project for a small town, especially
because they actually formed a community development LLC that allowed
people who lived in the town and the surroundings to
actually put money into this fund and then they could
make money back on the backside. And so they ended
(21:14):
up raising a little over three million dollars, which you know,
at that time this was probably well it would have
been nineteen years ago, twenty years ago when they built that,
but that that was you know, that was not a
bad budget to do eighteen holes, and they had a
(21:35):
perfect site where we didn't have to move a lot
of dirt, so you know, they went ahead and went
forward with.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
My design, and.
Speaker 8 (21:46):
It was it was a huge break for me because
you know, I finally I had my name on my
own eighteen hole project. But it actually turned out better
than what I think they anticipated it would, which which
says a lot and I'm honored by that. But I
actually designed it to where I knew at that time
(22:08):
that's all the money they had, but I knew that
it could be more than what they anticipated, So I
designed it in where they had room for expansion, meaning
there were areas where I was like, Okay, twenty years
from now, this is going to be a better tea location,
but for now, we're going to put it here, or
you know, twenty years from now, we're going to expand
this screen, because you know, so I always had that
(22:31):
in my mind when I was going through the design process. Again,
I was designing to what they had, but I knew
it could be more. And so sure enough, they're actually
going back now and they're renovating a few of the
areas that I had in mind.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
To make the course much better.
Speaker 8 (22:49):
And yeah, so it's been very rewarding and they've always
been very happy with me and my work, which is incredible.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That's Spring Creek and sene To, Kansas often rated among
the top five in Kansas, and ironically enough, it's in
Kansas and is the home course for the University of
Nebraska Ladies golf team starting this year.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, which is awesome.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
And that just says a lot about the design that
you know, these these ladies, they can poison golf and
they you know, it just fits, it fits their need
and it fits their their game, and you know it's
going to bring a lot more notoriety also to to
the town of Seneca.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So about the same time you started working with Nick
Faldo on the Cottonwood Hall's Hutchinson golf course, and you
actually introduced Nick to the owners with another interesting tale
for us.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
Sure. Yeah, So Cottonwood Hills in hutch it was a
sand hills project.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
There's there.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
You know, if you're familiar with prairie dunes, you understand
that there. You know, that's a great area for golf
course development. You know, as far as just we're all
land really unique piece of property. And I was reading
an article that Nick had written in one of the magazines,
and like the last paragraph of it was like, hey,
(24:15):
we're you know, I'm in the UK, but I'm really
looking at, you know, potentially doing some projects in the
United States if you know anything.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Blah blah blahlah blah. So I want to whin.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
I was like, well, heck, you know, I've heard rumblings
of this project in hutcheson so and at sand Hills.
So who better to get involved in a sand Hills
project than a guy from the.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
UK, right?
Speaker 8 (24:38):
And I called this business manager and within ten days
the business manager had flown over here and met me,
and we went down and looked at the property and
met with the owners and they struck a deal. And
it was really an awesome opportunity. But if I hadn't
just taken that chance and given the guy a call,
(25:01):
it probably wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
That's a really neat story.
Speaker 8 (25:07):
Yeah, So anyway, for for getting him involved, I you know,
I actually got to be involved in the project from
a construction management standpoint and a little bit of design,
not much, but it was more of you know, just
in hey live two and a half hours away from
the site. I can be there anytime you need me.
I can go down and you know, work with the
(25:29):
contractor or do whatever you need me to do. And
that saves you all from having to come across the
you know, the sea all the time. And so that
was that was a great experience actually to work with
Nick and to understand Nick and to uh, you know,
just be around him. He's a he's a fascinating person,
and uh, that was kind of one of the highlights
(25:52):
of my career, honestly, just working with him.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
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us at Danny at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look forward
to working with you. Our guest is Chuck Ermish. He
is a golf course designer and has been involved in
all areas as you've heard of the golf business, and
we'll get into what he's at right now. But right
about this time, there was personal tragedy in your life
that kind of threw a big detour in your way.
Speaker 8 (30:51):
It did, It did, and you know, as with life,
things happen and people adapt to it or they don't.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
And unfortunately, my tragedy it was a rough one.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
And basically my wife was pregnant and we lost twins,
and it really hit home and hit hard, and I
decided that I just needed a break from the golf
industry for a while and needed to really get myself
squared away. I had some real challenges from that. My
(31:27):
wife and I actually ended up getting divorced because of
the tragedy. We just couldn't overcome it. But we were
successful in actually getting pregnant again, and we had my
current daughter now, who just graduated from Mill Valley and
she's exceptional, and so out of all tragedy always comes
something good. But you know, I did take some time
(31:49):
and just had to regroup and kind of reprioritize my
life a little bit.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
But I knew one thing.
Speaker 8 (31:55):
That golf was part of my life, and once golf's
into your blood, it doesn't go away. So you know,
kind of a damned if you do, damned if you
don't situation. But I tried to give up my career
and fate just wouldn't allow it. So I kept catching
wind of projects and kept catching wind of you know, like, hey,
(32:18):
you really need to stay in this, you really need
to just persevere. And it took a few years to
get back into it, but I made it back and
I feel like it was probably one of the most
needed times for me to you know, just kind of
get leveling in right, and I've been successful in.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Doing that, and now all.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
The projects I work on really have a purpose to
them now, and that purpose is what drives me.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
It's more than just golf for me.
Speaker 8 (32:55):
It's you know, I'm always looking at ways that how
can golf, you know, help other people, How can people
you know, like gain things from the game besides just
being able to play. It's you know, the projects are
just more meaningful, and I'm really trying to tie my
work to humanitarian efforts and things like that.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
So tell you, tell me about the little steps you
took along the way back, as it were.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
So, yeah, knowing that I wanted to be in golf,
I actually decided that I wanted to become a superintendent
and and you know, do the daily management of the
maintenance of golf facilities. And it was a bit of
a turn for me. I like being outdoors and I
(33:48):
like experiencing, you know, just the vibe of a golf course,
and there's no better way to do that than just
than being out there every day and What I also
saw was that renovations were really coming in to the norm.
All these courses that were built, you know, in the
late nineties, we're getting to the point where you know,
(34:10):
it's like, okay, well we need to renovate.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Or we need to do this, or we need to
do that.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
So I could see the wave of renovations coming and
I thought, well, the best way to really get into
renovation work and have that design work is to be
able to speak the language of the superintendent. Like I
already know how to speak the language of the contractor
because I built courses. And so the piece that I'm
really missing was, Hey, how do I relate to a superintendent?
(34:35):
How does a superintendent relate to you know, renovation projects.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
What's their duty? What is it?
Speaker 8 (34:42):
How does an impact them? And that's why I dove
into it, and again it's it's one of probably the
best moves I've ever made career wise, because now I
can go into an ownership group who is looking to
do a renovation and I can say, okay, this is whatever.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
To the table.
Speaker 8 (35:00):
I'm not only a designer, but I speak the language
of contractor and superintendent, and I know the daily grind
of the superintendent, and the Superintendent's loved me because they
understand that I know that, and it just it's you know,
a different avenue into renovation projects. But it's been very
rewarding and successful.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
So you were at Deer Creek for a few years,
of course Deer Creek no longer exists now, and at
Painted Hills as the head superintendent from twenty eighteen to
twenty one, which is just about COVID time. What is
it like working at a sort of a you know,
high volume, low budget facility like Painted Hills where I
(35:43):
actually have made a hole in one once.
Speaker 10 (35:45):
Cool congratulations Painted Hills was it was a definite challenge
for me because obviously the budget was lower for the
entire maintenance.
Speaker 8 (35:57):
And so it was good for me in a way
because I got to do a lot of things hands on.
You know, not only am I trying to manage a
small crew, but I'm also part of that crew, and
so I got my hands dirty. I got to figure out,
you know, irrigation system, you know all the ins and
outs of that, and you know, just managing a golf
(36:22):
course is a whole different world. I mean, you're there
at five point thirty in the morning training to get
ahead of golfers and you're there. You know, your crew
gets off around two o'clock in the afternoon, but the
superintendent doesn't get to leave. So you know, I was
putting in, you know, the ten twelve hour days, and
you know, it got to be a grind, but it was.
(36:43):
It was a good grind, honestly, because again, it really
helped me to understand, Okay, so this is the life
of a superintendent. And then it got me to imagine, okay,
so what happens if what would happen to me if
they came to me tomorrow and we're going to renovate
the entire course? Now would I handle that right? You know?
(37:05):
And I took that image and that knowledge and now
can turn that around right from a design standpoint. So
I'm going into a design saying, hey, you know, I
understand you're going to be overwhelmed. You may not even
understand it yet, but you know I'm here to help you. Actually,
I'm here to make your life simpler, right, And you
(37:27):
know that that's a key component to any good renovation design,
I believe is you know, not only like upgrading a course,
but doing it in a manner that the superintendent is
okay with where you're not increasing his workload or his
staff because that number is always going to stay the
same no matter what, right, He's only going to be
(37:48):
able to do so much. So the architect really needs
to understand, Okay, what is that threshold.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
What what can they do?
Speaker 8 (37:55):
What equipment do they have, how many people do they have,
And the design really has to kind of match that.
And that's the way that I look at renovation projects.
So you know, in a way, renovation projects are actually
a lot more difficult to design than even a new project.
(38:15):
And it's because of that factor, right, But it's also
because the course is landlocked, so you know, no matter
what idea you have, you have to get back to
some place to tie in right. And that's where the
imagination comes in.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Right. You can't just go.
Speaker 8 (38:32):
Out and say I'm gonna raise a green three feet
or lower green three feet, because you've got to figure
out where that ties in. You know, it may be
one hundred yards back into the fairway before that ties
in right, right, just for line of sight and view
and just the.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Flow of the land.
Speaker 8 (38:50):
So you know, they're hard hard to work on. Push
you have irrigation mainline, and you have all sorts of
things that are underground that you have to back into also,
so yeah, I think you know, renovation projects are. They're
not easy. And unfortunately architects aren't really paid a whole
(39:12):
lot of money for renovation projects because the owners just think, oh, well,
this is this is nothing. You're just telling us we're
new green eats together right, or you're you know, uh
and a lot of guys even try and do it
all in house.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
And uh.
Speaker 8 (39:29):
So, you know, for innovations are, they're not an easy project.
But but I actually really enjoyed the challenge of them.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Also recently, you spent a couple of years working with
Greg Norman.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I did, and again that was another highlight of my career. Obviously.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
I I got the job because I had a friend
when I was at Sawgrass who was the assistant superintendent
there and he actually graduated on and started his own
company a as I had a hunter in the golf
industry for superintendents and gms, and.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
He had called me out of the blue.
Speaker 8 (40:07):
I hadn't talked to him probably ten years, and he said, hey,
I don't know what you're doing right now, but I
just talked to a guy who is leaving Greg Norman's
office and he's wanting to get into superintendent business. But
I think there's going to be a design opening.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
You might want to check it out. And I was like,
that sounds kind of fun.
Speaker 8 (40:26):
This would be a good time in my career to
travel the world and figure some things out. So I
made the contact and went through several interviews and the
next thing I know, they had hired me and said
I could work remotely and it just all worked out
to my advantage. And with that, I jumped right in
(40:47):
and designed or was involved in some form of the
design of eight different courses in Vietnam and one in Cambodia,
and did a complete master plan for a project missed
embold Turkey, and UH, you know I got I got
to see parts of the world I never would have
gotten to see, so really a great experience. And I
(41:10):
thank mister mister Norman and UH, the two vice presidents
of design for giving me that opportunity. I was one
of four designers basically worldwide for for Greg and UH.
It turned out very very well.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Well, you are working on some really fascinating projects right now,
so get us up to date with those.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
These are really cool.
Speaker 8 (41:31):
Yeah, these are some fun projects. I've since left UH
mister Norman's group and UH I had a couple opportunities
to pursue on my own, and I'm taking full advantage
of it. First opportunity is I've I've done a master
plan for an eighteen hoole state and play concept UH
(41:53):
golf facility in Belize, and there is a very strong
humanitarian aspect on the back end of it, and so
I was very excited about that project because that's right
my Bailey Wick where I'm trying to marriage, you know,
high end golf with the humanitarian aspect and get back.
So you know, not to go too deep into the
(42:15):
business plan of it, but it's basically a you you buy.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
The package.
Speaker 8 (42:23):
And you have four days where you go and enjoy
a total in house experience where you know, you have
a cabin or a villa that you stay at, you
get all the golf you want to play, and then
you know, portions of ten percent of the proceeds of
those packages goes back to the humanitarian aspect. And in
(42:44):
this case, what we are setting it up to do
is basically giving two days a week Monday and Tuesday,
where the course will be closed completely through the packages
and we open it up to the locals and we
bring in people from the golf business, uh, every aspect
of the golf business to you know, do seminars and
(43:07):
get local people involved in learning about the game and
learning about the business of the game. And then we
have scholarship opportunities that we're probably gonna offer. And but
what's really cool is and if you run the numbers,
if we do, I think it's two hundred packages a week,
(43:27):
we can raise about three million dollars a year for
the humanitarian aspect.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
And uh, it's really yeah, it's.
Speaker 8 (43:35):
An amazing opportunity and uh, you know, it gives these
these local people a sense of hope really and but
what what it really does, It gives them one opportunity
to get out and be involved work there. Right, they
can work at the course, and in the process of
doing that, they are rubbing shoulders with you know, influentious,
influential business people. You know, they're they're learning by car
(44:00):
slay through their experiences, right and through overhearing how business
deals are done, and overhearing all of these things. And
it's it's uh, really quite an amazing concept when when
you think about it, how how golf and the humanitarian
can be married together and that that's that's.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
The goal of the project.
Speaker 8 (44:21):
So that project, you know, the master plan's gone, We're
we're working on getting some approvals, working on the financing,
working on that aspect of it. But in the process
of that, it led to another project for me, and
and this one is the one that actually really really
(44:42):
excites me. But we had a solar component to the
Belize project because it was in third world blaze, right,
so we had to basically upgrade the utilities and we're
going to do it with with through the use of
solar power. And one of the influenced people in the
(45:04):
Sort company called me out of the blue and he said, hey,
I have an opportunity you might be interested in. I
have a business partner in other aspects and she.
Speaker 12 (45:17):
Is looking to do the.
Speaker 8 (45:18):
Almost the exact same type of facility that you're doing
a Beliez.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Would you mind talking to her? And I'm like, no,
I wouldn't mind. He goes good, I'm going to put
her on the phone right now, and I'm like, oh,
no pressure.
Speaker 8 (45:30):
So it ends up that this is the queen mother
of one of the provinces in Nigeria, and she is very,
very excited and passionate, and so we began conversations and
I actually met her in person and I had a
(45:51):
three hour scheduled meeting with her in her busy schedule,
and it ended up being a four hour meeting and
switch means, you know, we really hit it off off
and so I am in the process of getting under contract.
I'm supposed to be under contract with her in the
next ten to fourteen days to design twenty seven holes,
(46:11):
a twenty seven hole resort facility in Nigeria right outside
of Logos. And the goal of the project is to
have eighteen holes that they're willing to attract either the
DP Tour or the Asian Tour or even live and
so they want it to be very high end and
(46:32):
then the other nine is going to be more for
the resort guests of the different style course a little
easier to manage for people who just want to go
to the resort and get away and play golf. So
if they don't want to get beat up by a
championship course, they can, you know, just play the nine
hole and do whatever else. The resort will offer, and
it's again one of those fascinating projects because there will
(46:54):
be a huge humanitarian aspect on the back side of
it as well, and I'm very excited to be a
part of it. And I believe that through this we've
already been in discussion about potentially branding the concept and
then going globally with it. So kind of kind of
(47:15):
feels like my big break is here, and I'm very
excited to be part of projects that you know, have
a deeper meaning than just golf.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
What sounds like just another amazing chapter on what has
already been quite a journey that you've taken, sir.
Speaker 8 (47:32):
Well, yeah, thank you for saying that. It's it has
been a journey, and it's you know, one that I
honestly can't take credit for. I'm a Christian man, and
I really believe that God has put me in a
place to where He's guided me through everything and given
(47:53):
me the right resources to get to where I'm at today, and.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
That that's my driver right now. And you know that.
Speaker 8 (48:03):
Thus the you know, hey, let's let's let's make this
more about humanitarian efforts, you know, and give back, and
that's the goal. So in the process of doing that.
I have started my own management company on the back end,
and it's called Global Impact Golf, and I actually started
at the beginning of this year because I don't want
(48:27):
to do design and then have someone else take it over,
like a different management company and put their fingerprints all
over it. And you know, sometimes that doesn't translate well right,
it's I've seen it happen too many times where you
get through a design and they get through construction and
they hand the owner the keys, and the owners not
(48:49):
in the golf business, they don't have any desire to
be in the golf business, so they just hire somebody
to come manage the facility. Well great, but they don't
know the business plan, you know, they don't know how
the course was designed, you know, in relation to everything else,
and they don't understand what the course actually is in
the entire development, right, the meaning of the course and.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
How it relates.
Speaker 8 (49:13):
So who better to do that than the guy who
designed the course, you know, Like I know the business
plan sometimes better than the owner does. And so what
I'm trying to do with my management company has actually
maintained the credibility of the design, but also build the
brand and you know, make sure that the brand is
(49:35):
protected and what the course is supposed to be is protected.
And owners are actually really appreciative appreciative of that because
it kind of takes the stress off of them and
gives them a product that you know, when they're when
they're ready to exit the project, if that day comes,
they know that the product that they intended is is
(49:57):
there and maintained, and you know, the brand is built.
So that that's kind of a side feature to what
I offer, but it makes a lot of sense. And
usually that management contract is for the first five years,
so because it does take about that long to really
develop a brand and get the quality that you want
(50:20):
out of out of a new project.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
We hope you enjoyed the latest Danny Klinkscale Reasonably Irreverent podcast.
Come back soon for something fresh and new. This podcast
was made possible by our great sponsors like Eastern Roofing,
where integrity matters. Joe Spiker and his team are the
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Handle with honesty and crafts.
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Visit them at Easternroofing dot com.
Welcome to the Danny Klinkscale Reasonably Irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten Path.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
Welcome to Kansas City Profiles presented by Easton Roofing, and
a fascinating golf journey and life journey with Chuck Irmish.
He is the owner of Global Impact Golf LLC as
well as Irmish Golf Architecture, and he has been involved
in just about every aspect of the golf business from
construction and architecture, design and so on and so forth,
(00:39):
and currently is working on two amazing overseas projects. He's
got all kinds of great stories that involved the likes
of Jack Nicholas and Nick Faldo and Greg Norman. It
is a cool ride for somebody who grew up in
Von Teraire, Missouri, in a golf course community, went to
Kansas State and got his Bachelor of Landscape Architecture to
(01:00):
and since then has moved through the golf industry in many,
many different ways that we'll hear about here. He's overcome
some personal tragedies. He is a man of faith who
now wants to give back as far as humanitarian efforts
that go along with his golf projects as well. If
you are interested in golf, are just interested in an
(01:20):
amazing life story. Our conversation with Chuck Ermish is a
great one. It is our Kansas City profile presented by
Eastern Roofing, and it starts next.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast After this.
Speaker 3 (01:37):
Take Kansas City. Joe Spiker Eastern Roofing.
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(03:56):
Matt Llewellen of the twenty third Street Brewery twenty third
and Casseld, Lawrence, and Matt tell us a bit about
the menu and the evolution, but the old standards too.
Speaker 5 (04:05):
The evolution of the menu, Danny has gone through quite
a lot of changes, so it went down during the pandemic,
but now we've got more things, great new pastas on
the menu that have been received very very well, including
the homage to Derek Kwan who runs the lead Center
here in Lawrence, and he brings the celebrities from the
lead Center in which is always kind of cool when
(04:25):
he does that.
Speaker 4 (04:26):
And we always have new pasta.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
Dishes and always new things that we try to do
seasonally as well. State Night which is every Wednesday, Burner
Night which is every Tuesday. Just always something fresh trying
to go on here.
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Great flat breads, great salads, and all kinds of great
things like the pastas you mentioned everything, great variety, great
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Visit brew twenty three dot com and come on out, eat, drink,
and be very merry.
Speaker 7 (04:54):
If you'd like to join these and other fine sponsors
and market your business on Kansas City's number one rated podcast,
contact us at Danny at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look
forward to working with you.
Speaker 8 (05:07):
Jack.
Speaker 2 (05:07):
You're a Missouri boy growing up in Bontare, Missouri, a
golf course community. Tell me a little bit about young Chuck.
Speaker 8 (05:17):
Young Chuck was a very creative kid, kind of nerdy
to be honest, But I always had a planning type
of mind where I could see things that most people couldn't.
So I knew I wanted to get into some sort
of planning or design profession, but I really didn't know what.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
Did you play a lot? Of golf as a youngster.
Speaker 8 (05:44):
I did. Actually, my parents belonged to a golf club
and they got me involved at an early age. I
think I was about twelve when I swung my first
club and going through high school. The community was living
in actually added nine holes to their existing eighteen.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
And it fascinated me.
Speaker 8 (06:07):
So I got out to kick the dirt around with
the contractor and things started coming together in my mind
that hey, this is kind of fun. And contractor kind
of took me under his arm and said that I
had a very good eye and he would always pick
my brain on what I thought was happening and how.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I thought the golf holes were.
Speaker 8 (06:26):
Looking, and I would just give him an honest answer,
and he took that and strongly encouraged me to pursue
golf course as some sort of future.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
What kind of a player were you and are you?
Speaker 4 (06:38):
You know?
Speaker 8 (06:38):
I yeah, I was much better when I was younger,
but I'm to the point now where I'm eight handicapped.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Right, Well, that's still pretty good.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So did you have any designs on playing golf at all?
Speaker 8 (06:54):
You know, I really didn't. I didn't want to play golf,
but I always kind of thought it'd be fun to
be a caddy, and that in my mind. That's how
my mind works though, because again I see things and
I'm pretty creative, and sometimes that doesn't translate to actual ability.
But if I could ever hook up with somebody who
(07:15):
had the ability and listen to me, then that would
be perfect.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
You ended up going to k State, which isn't isn't
unusual for somebody who wants to be involved in working
in the golf business. Tell me about your times in Manhattan.
Speaker 8 (07:31):
Manhattan was a very fun time. That was, as you mentioned,
the way to go if you wanted to get into
the golf industry. So I went through the landscape architecture
program and it was difficult at best, but I survived.
We started with thirty seven kids in my landscape architecture
(07:53):
class and we graduated seventeen, So I think I did
pretty good.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, I dated it an architecture student in college, and
I didn't see her very much.
Speaker 9 (08:03):
So Yeah, we had we had beds under our studio tables,
and you know, we would we would pull the all
nighters quite often, and I was actually pretty lucky.
Speaker 8 (08:15):
My college roommate and I we were both landscape architects.
And both of us wanted to get into the golf business,
and we had a professor who was in the golf
business and had built courses in a previous life before
coming becoming a professor, so he kind of took us
in and kind of gave us the ropes and would
(08:38):
kind of maneuver some projects that were just planning projects
to include a golf course just for us too, So
that was that was really cool experience. And then they
did a winter intercession also that we got involved in,
and we actually learned a lot from that because it
was much more laid back and much more in depth
as far as golf planning.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
So that was very formative for me.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Well, kind of a serendipitous move was the fact that
your parents moved to Jacksonville and that was about the
time that you're getting ready to come out of college
and you got involved with the business right away down there.
Speaker 4 (09:17):
I did.
Speaker 8 (09:18):
I did. I actually did my internship at TPC at
Sawgrass and it was an outstanding opportunity and I really
didn't know what I was getting into, but it was maintenance,
but it was also an in house construction project and
they were adding on some square footage to greens and
redoing some bunker faces and things like that, and so
(09:42):
I got hands on experience as far as Okay, how
do pow.
Speaker 4 (09:46):
Are things built like? You know? And how does that
relate back to design?
Speaker 8 (09:51):
And in that time, another serendipitous happening occurred and I
met the chief designer for the PGA at the time, which.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
Was Bobby Weed.
Speaker 8 (10:02):
And Bobby invited me into his office because he had
caught one that I wanted to get into the design industry.
And it was rather funny because he's like, bring your resume.
Speaker 4 (10:14):
So I took what I thought was a.
Speaker 8 (10:17):
Resume, which was basically every class I'd ever taken at
CA State because I had no experience. And he looked
it over and looked up and peered at me through
his glasses and took the resume and threw it in
the garbage and said, son, that's that's not a resume,
that's uh, you have no experience. And I said, I know,
that's why I'm you're talking to you right, And he
(10:40):
immediately gave me four phone numbers of contractors that he
knew personally that we're hiring, and he goes, you need
to do construction, you need to do construction for about
three years and then come back and talk to me.
And I took his advice and ended up in Naples,
Florida the next summer and built a Robert Trent Jones
Junior course and really got my hands dirty, and it
(11:03):
was the best experience.
Speaker 4 (11:04):
I've ever had.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
Well, you installed irrigation and drainage, and while it's a
great learning experience, it sounds like real hard work, yes.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
But it was mixed with fun. You know, when you're
nineteen twenty years old and kind of you know, stepping
out on your own.
Speaker 8 (11:22):
And I had actually just turned twenty one on a
September birthday.
Speaker 4 (11:26):
So.
Speaker 8 (11:29):
You know, work all day and have a little fun
at night, and then do it all over again.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
So at this point in time, you it was kind
of perfect because you could live with your parents and
save a little money and do stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
Right, correct, correct.
Speaker 8 (11:44):
So I'm not sure that they really enjoyed me living
there with the hours that I was keeping, but you know,
it was it was a good experience.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
Well, you obviously got your teeth into it in Florida,
but you felt like you wanted to come back to
the Middle West.
Speaker 4 (12:01):
Yeah, I actually got.
Speaker 8 (12:02):
A little homesick in in South Florida and even in Jacksonville.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
You know, it was.
Speaker 8 (12:08):
It was not what I considered home and I I
just had an opportunity to move back up to this
area and glad that I did. I ended up in Joplin,
Missouri and got hooked on with Mid America Golfing Landscape
out of Least Summit and we were doing a basically
(12:30):
a redesign or reconstruction of Twin Hills and Joplin and
mister Don Seacrest, the late Don Seacrest, was the architect
on the project, and Don and I got to be
really good friends just through that project. And at the
end of it, he said that he potentially had an
(12:50):
opening for a design rep for his company, and I
jumped all over that and again it was a great move,
and Don and I did some really good work.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
He other.
Speaker 8 (13:03):
My first actual design project was Mazingo at Maryville, Missouri,
and then I also helped on Adam's Point, did basically
all the design on that, and then Nine Hole Edition
at Whiteman Air Force Base, amongst a few other you
know projects regionally for Don that didn't actually go, but
(13:24):
you know it was, it was good design practice so
to speak, and got some master pointing in my belt.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
So what is it? I really was back into design.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So go into the mechanics of you know, Don Seacrest
is the one who a lot of times is going
to have his name on the golf course and so
talk about the collaborative aspect of that.
Speaker 8 (13:45):
Okay, yeah, so the collaboration on that as I learned
a lot from Don, and Don was a very good
teacher actually, and it was exactly what I needed at
the time.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Don realized that.
Speaker 8 (13:56):
I had some talent, and he also knew that I
had the construction experience, and that I think is really
the reason that he hired me was because I could,
you know, not only put it on paper, but I
could also have an understanding then of okay, this is
how it was built. So my designs were stronger at
that age in my career. And you know, Don would
(14:19):
take me into the meetings and he kind of taught
me the ropes of you know, hey, this is how
the businesses run, this is how meetings go, this is
you know, the process of a project. And honestly, I
owe a lot to Don, and you know it, he
(14:40):
just kind of I didn't necessarily pick up his style,
but I did pick up a lot of things from
him that made sense to me, Like, you know, the
more natural the golf course peers. That's a good thing,
and you know, you tie in the edges of the
golf course and everything else will kind of take care
of itself. And you know it it's all about just
(15:01):
you know, understanding the client, understanding what their desires and
goals are for the project, and then delivering a design
that kind of matches that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
So get people a time frame here where we're talking
at this point in time when you're doing some of
these projects.
Speaker 6 (15:19):
Where are we in time?
Speaker 8 (15:21):
So this was probably nineteen ninety six, nineteen ninety seven ish,
and you know, so I'm I graduated in ninety two,
so you know, I'm four years out of college, right,
you know, I'm still still a young man and still
have a lot to learn. But you know, the beauty
(15:41):
of that was that don he understood that I was green,
so to speak. So a few mistakes here and there,
you know, he worked me through and that's really I
needed that at that time.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Well, you mentioned that's not all project go from, you know,
starting up to completion fruition as it were, and one
of those was the Top of the Rock in Branson,
where you built a few holes and somebody famous ended
up taking your work.
Speaker 4 (16:16):
Yeah, that was a very interesting event.
Speaker 8 (16:21):
Don and I did the original routing for Top of
the Rock, and as you said, we actually had about
four holes of it built. And we were out in
the field one day and Johnny Morris comes out and
calls Don over to the side, and of course, you know,
Don goes over and I can see Don's reaction during
(16:41):
the whole conversation, and I see Johnny, you know, like
talking to him. But the conversation wasn't great. Let's put
it that way, right, And you know Don, Don's kind
of got his head down a little bit and turned around,
starts walking towards me and still has his head down,
but looks up and winks at me, and I was like,
(17:02):
that's interesting. So we get back in Down's vehicle and
he goes, well, we were just fired, and I was like, well,
that's not great. He goes, well, he goes, Johnny took
care of us. He uh, you know, we actually got
our entire contract plus ten percent, and he decided that
he wanted to go another way, and I was like, Oh,
(17:23):
I said, that's that's interesting. He goes, yeah, that's the
best project that I've ever lost. So you know it's.
Speaker 6 (17:31):
Uh because you lost it too.
Speaker 8 (17:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, you didn't mention who you lost it to.
Speaker 8 (17:39):
Oh we lost it to Jack.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
Nicholas the.
Speaker 4 (17:44):
Sorry about that, but you know it's uh.
Speaker 10 (17:48):
Don.
Speaker 4 (17:49):
Don was always kind.
Speaker 8 (17:50):
Of one of those architects. He was a great regional architect.
He never got the respect nationally. I don't think that
he deserved. You know, he did great courses and that
that's why I really like working for him, because I've
always been kind of the same way. I fly under
the radar, and you know, I I've been blessed at
a career where I've worked with a lot of the big,
bigger names, and uh, you know, I understand the need
(18:13):
for the big name on some projects, but I've always
just kind of, you know, I believe in myself, I
believe in my abilities, and you know, I'm honored when
I do get to meet these these folks and work
with them. But I've been kind of just building my
career for my my own breakthrough, which I feel is
pretty close.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Actually now after this particular event, soon after you would
move into the area of starting your own company. Is
this about the time frame or what was it?
Speaker 4 (18:43):
Yeah, that's the exact time frame.
Speaker 8 (18:45):
So and I, you know, I hung my own shingle,
and it was it was a little slow, honestly at first,
because golf is really built on trust and and there's
all a lot of notoriety just in and having a
name and having.
Speaker 4 (19:04):
Been involved in projects.
Speaker 8 (19:05):
I mean, that's you know, it's like any new business,
You've got to kind of build your own reputation and
you've got to kind of work your way into it
through connections and contacts. And luckily, you know, I promoted
myself well with having the construction experience and then also
having designed and that that kind of went well to
(19:26):
talking with, you know, people who are doing innovation projects
or people who were doing you know, new projects, because
it did add some credibility the fact that I actually
had experience.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So at the outset, what was your first big event
as far as your own company was concerned.
Speaker 8 (19:42):
As far as my own company was concerned, I would
say that I really got my chance in Seneca, Kansas.
And Seneca, Kansas is in north central Kansas town of
about thirty five hundred people, and they had been looking
to basically build a new golf course because they hadn't
(20:03):
existing golf course, but there were some safety hazards on it.
One of the holes actually hit over at the corner
at the track of the high school and there were a.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Couple of kids who got hit, and the city realized, hey, we.
Speaker 8 (20:16):
Can't continue to do this, so we need to, you know,
maybe look into building it a much nicer.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
Facility, and it fit their growth.
Speaker 8 (20:26):
Model for the city. So I worked with them for
about two years prior to the golf course, even going
to construction on Okay, how do we put this together
in a way that is a affordable and b really
gives you the room for expansion, And they were looking
at doing a housing community involved with it. And it
(20:50):
was a very unique project for a small town, especially
because they actually formed a community development LLC that allowed
people who lived in the town and the surroundings to
actually put money into this fund and then they could
make money back on the backside. And so they ended
(21:14):
up raising a little over three million dollars, which you know,
at that time this was probably well it would have
been nineteen years ago, twenty years ago when they built that,
but that that was you know, that was not a
bad budget to do eighteen holes, and they had a
(21:35):
perfect site where we didn't have to move a lot
of dirt, so you know, they went ahead and went
forward with.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
My design, and.
Speaker 8 (21:46):
It was it was a huge break for me because
you know, I finally I had my name on my
own eighteen hole project. But it actually turned out better
than what I think they anticipated it would, which which
says a lot and I'm honored by that. But I
actually designed it to where I knew at that time
(22:08):
that's all the money they had, but I knew that
it could be more than what they anticipated, So I
designed it in where they had room for expansion, meaning
there were areas where I was like, Okay, twenty years
from now, this is going to be a better tea location,
but for now, we're going to put it here, or
you know, twenty years from now, we're going to expand
this screen, because you know, so I always had that
(22:31):
in my mind when I was going through the design process. Again,
I was designing to what they had, but I knew
it could be more. And so sure enough, they're actually
going back now and they're renovating a few of the
areas that I had in mind.
Speaker 4 (22:47):
To make the course much better.
Speaker 8 (22:49):
And yeah, so it's been very rewarding and they've always
been very happy with me and my work, which is incredible.
Speaker 6 (22:58):
That's cool.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
That's Spring Creek and sene To, Kansas often rated among
the top five in Kansas, and ironically enough, it's in
Kansas and is the home course for the University of
Nebraska Ladies golf team starting this year.
Speaker 4 (23:12):
Yeah, yeah, which is awesome.
Speaker 8 (23:15):
And that just says a lot about the design that
you know, these these ladies, they can poison golf and
they you know, it just fits, it fits their need
and it fits their their game, and you know it's
going to bring a lot more notoriety also to to
the town of Seneca.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
So about the same time you started working with Nick
Faldo on the Cottonwood Hall's Hutchinson golf course, and you
actually introduced Nick to the owners with another interesting tale
for us.
Speaker 8 (23:46):
Sure. Yeah, So Cottonwood Hills in hutch it was a
sand hills project.
Speaker 4 (23:54):
There's there.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
You know, if you're familiar with prairie dunes, you understand
that there. You know, that's a great area for golf
course development. You know, as far as just we're all
land really unique piece of property. And I was reading
an article that Nick had written in one of the magazines,
and like the last paragraph of it was like, hey,
(24:15):
we're you know, I'm in the UK, but I'm really
looking at, you know, potentially doing some projects in the
United States if you know anything.
Speaker 4 (24:22):
Blah blah blahlah blah. So I want to whin.
Speaker 8 (24:25):
I was like, well, heck, you know, I've heard rumblings
of this project in hutcheson so and at sand Hills.
So who better to get involved in a sand Hills
project than a guy from the.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
UK, right?
Speaker 8 (24:38):
And I called this business manager and within ten days
the business manager had flown over here and met me,
and we went down and looked at the property and
met with the owners and they struck a deal. And
it was really an awesome opportunity. But if I hadn't
just taken that chance and given the guy a call,
(25:01):
it probably wouldn't have happened.
Speaker 6 (25:04):
That's a really neat story.
Speaker 8 (25:07):
Yeah, So anyway, for for getting him involved, I you know,
I actually got to be involved in the project from
a construction management standpoint and a little bit of design,
not much, but it was more of you know, just
in hey live two and a half hours away from
the site. I can be there anytime you need me.
I can go down and you know, work with the
(25:29):
contractor or do whatever you need me to do. And
that saves you all from having to come across the
you know, the sea all the time. And so that
was that was a great experience actually to work with
Nick and to understand Nick and to uh, you know,
just be around him. He's a he's a fascinating person,
and uh, that was kind of one of the highlights
(25:52):
of my career, honestly, just working with him.
Speaker 1 (25:56):
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us at Danny at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look forward
to working with you. Our guest is Chuck Ermish. He
is a golf course designer and has been involved in
all areas as you've heard of the golf business, and
we'll get into what he's at right now. But right
about this time, there was personal tragedy in your life
that kind of threw a big detour in your way.
Speaker 8 (30:51):
It did, It did, and you know, as with life,
things happen and people adapt to it or they don't.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
And unfortunately, my tragedy it was a rough one.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
And basically my wife was pregnant and we lost twins,
and it really hit home and hit hard, and I
decided that I just needed a break from the golf
industry for a while and needed to really get myself
squared away. I had some real challenges from that. My
(31:27):
wife and I actually ended up getting divorced because of
the tragedy. We just couldn't overcome it. But we were
successful in actually getting pregnant again, and we had my
current daughter now, who just graduated from Mill Valley and
she's exceptional, and so out of all tragedy always comes
something good. But you know, I did take some time
(31:49):
and just had to regroup and kind of reprioritize my
life a little bit.
Speaker 4 (31:54):
But I knew one thing.
Speaker 8 (31:55):
That golf was part of my life, and once golf's
into your blood, it doesn't go away. So you know,
kind of a damned if you do, damned if you
don't situation. But I tried to give up my career
and fate just wouldn't allow it. So I kept catching
wind of projects and kept catching wind of you know, like, hey,
(32:18):
you really need to stay in this, you really need
to just persevere. And it took a few years to
get back into it, but I made it back and
I feel like it was probably one of the most
needed times for me to you know, just kind of
get leveling in right, and I've been successful in.
Speaker 4 (32:41):
Doing that, and now all.
Speaker 8 (32:45):
The projects I work on really have a purpose to
them now, and that purpose is what drives me.
Speaker 4 (32:52):
It's more than just golf for me.
Speaker 8 (32:55):
It's you know, I'm always looking at ways that how
can golf, you know, help other people, How can people
you know, like gain things from the game besides just
being able to play. It's you know, the projects are
just more meaningful, and I'm really trying to tie my
work to humanitarian efforts and things like that.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
So tell you, tell me about the little steps you
took along the way back, as it were.
Speaker 8 (33:24):
So, yeah, knowing that I wanted to be in golf,
I actually decided that I wanted to become a superintendent
and and you know, do the daily management of the
maintenance of golf facilities. And it was a bit of
a turn for me. I like being outdoors and I
(33:48):
like experiencing, you know, just the vibe of a golf course,
and there's no better way to do that than just
than being out there every day and What I also
saw was that renovations were really coming in to the norm.
All these courses that were built, you know, in the
late nineties, we're getting to the point where you know,
(34:10):
it's like, okay, well we need to renovate.
Speaker 4 (34:12):
Or we need to do this, or we need to
do that.
Speaker 8 (34:14):
So I could see the wave of renovations coming and
I thought, well, the best way to really get into
renovation work and have that design work is to be
able to speak the language of the superintendent. Like I
already know how to speak the language of the contractor
because I built courses. And so the piece that I'm
really missing was, Hey, how do I relate to a superintendent?
(34:35):
How does a superintendent relate to you know, renovation projects.
Speaker 4 (34:41):
What's their duty? What is it?
Speaker 8 (34:42):
How does an impact them? And that's why I dove
into it, and again it's it's one of probably the
best moves I've ever made career wise, because now I
can go into an ownership group who is looking to
do a renovation and I can say, okay, this is whatever.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
To the table.
Speaker 8 (35:00):
I'm not only a designer, but I speak the language
of contractor and superintendent, and I know the daily grind
of the superintendent, and the Superintendent's loved me because they
understand that I know that, and it just it's you know,
a different avenue into renovation projects. But it's been very
rewarding and successful.
Speaker 2 (35:22):
So you were at Deer Creek for a few years,
of course Deer Creek no longer exists now, and at
Painted Hills as the head superintendent from twenty eighteen to
twenty one, which is just about COVID time. What is
it like working at a sort of a you know,
high volume, low budget facility like Painted Hills where I
(35:43):
actually have made a hole in one once.
Speaker 10 (35:45):
Cool congratulations Painted Hills was it was a definite challenge
for me because obviously the budget was lower for the
entire maintenance.
Speaker 8 (35:57):
And so it was good for me in a way
because I got to do a lot of things hands on.
You know, not only am I trying to manage a
small crew, but I'm also part of that crew, and
so I got my hands dirty. I got to figure out,
you know, irrigation system, you know all the ins and
outs of that, and you know, just managing a golf
(36:22):
course is a whole different world. I mean, you're there
at five point thirty in the morning training to get
ahead of golfers and you're there. You know, your crew
gets off around two o'clock in the afternoon, but the
superintendent doesn't get to leave. So you know, I was
putting in, you know, the ten twelve hour days, and
you know, it got to be a grind, but it was.
(36:43):
It was a good grind, honestly, because again, it really
helped me to understand, Okay, so this is the life
of a superintendent. And then it got me to imagine, okay,
so what happens if what would happen to me if
they came to me tomorrow and we're going to renovate
the entire course? Now would I handle that right? You know?
(37:05):
And I took that image and that knowledge and now
can turn that around right from a design standpoint. So
I'm going into a design saying, hey, you know, I
understand you're going to be overwhelmed. You may not even
understand it yet, but you know I'm here to help you. Actually,
I'm here to make your life simpler, right, And you
(37:27):
know that that's a key component to any good renovation design,
I believe is you know, not only like upgrading a course,
but doing it in a manner that the superintendent is
okay with where you're not increasing his workload or his
staff because that number is always going to stay the
same no matter what, right, He's only going to be
(37:48):
able to do so much. So the architect really needs
to understand, Okay, what is that threshold.
Speaker 4 (37:54):
What what can they do?
Speaker 8 (37:55):
What equipment do they have, how many people do they have,
And the design really has to kind of match that.
And that's the way that I look at renovation projects.
So you know, in a way, renovation projects are actually
a lot more difficult to design than even a new project.
(38:15):
And it's because of that factor, right, But it's also
because the course is landlocked, so you know, no matter
what idea you have, you have to get back to
some place to tie in right. And that's where the
imagination comes in.
Speaker 4 (38:31):
Right. You can't just go.
Speaker 8 (38:32):
Out and say I'm gonna raise a green three feet
or lower green three feet, because you've got to figure
out where that ties in. You know, it may be
one hundred yards back into the fairway before that ties
in right, right, just for line of sight and view
and just the.
Speaker 4 (38:48):
Flow of the land.
Speaker 8 (38:50):
So you know, they're hard hard to work on. Push
you have irrigation mainline, and you have all sorts of
things that are underground that you have to back into also,
so yeah, I think you know, renovation projects are. They're
not easy. And unfortunately architects aren't really paid a whole
(39:12):
lot of money for renovation projects because the owners just think, oh, well,
this is this is nothing. You're just telling us we're
new green eats together right, or you're you know, uh
and a lot of guys even try and do it
all in house.
Speaker 4 (39:28):
And uh.
Speaker 8 (39:29):
So, you know, for innovations are, they're not an easy project.
But but I actually really enjoyed the challenge of them.
Speaker 2 (39:36):
Also recently, you spent a couple of years working with
Greg Norman.
Speaker 4 (39:40):
I did, and again that was another highlight of my career. Obviously.
Speaker 8 (39:48):
I I got the job because I had a friend
when I was at Sawgrass who was the assistant superintendent
there and he actually graduated on and started his own
company a as I had a hunter in the golf
industry for superintendents and gms, and.
Speaker 4 (40:05):
He had called me out of the blue.
Speaker 8 (40:07):
I hadn't talked to him probably ten years, and he said, hey,
I don't know what you're doing right now, but I
just talked to a guy who is leaving Greg Norman's
office and he's wanting to get into superintendent business. But
I think there's going to be a design opening.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
You might want to check it out. And I was like,
that sounds kind of fun.
Speaker 8 (40:26):
This would be a good time in my career to
travel the world and figure some things out. So I
made the contact and went through several interviews and the
next thing I know, they had hired me and said
I could work remotely and it just all worked out
to my advantage. And with that, I jumped right in
(40:47):
and designed or was involved in some form of the
design of eight different courses in Vietnam and one in Cambodia,
and did a complete master plan for a project missed
embold Turkey, and UH, you know I got I got
to see parts of the world I never would have
gotten to see, so really a great experience. And I
(41:10):
thank mister mister Norman and UH, the two vice presidents
of design for giving me that opportunity. I was one
of four designers basically worldwide for for Greg and UH.
It turned out very very well.
Speaker 2 (41:25):
Well, you are working on some really fascinating projects right now,
so get us up to date with those.
Speaker 6 (41:30):
These are really cool.
Speaker 8 (41:31):
Yeah, these are some fun projects. I've since left UH
mister Norman's group and UH I had a couple opportunities
to pursue on my own, and I'm taking full advantage
of it. First opportunity is I've I've done a master
plan for an eighteen hoole state and play concept UH
(41:53):
golf facility in Belize, and there is a very strong
humanitarian aspect on the back end of it, and so
I was very excited about that project because that's right
my Bailey Wick where I'm trying to marriage, you know,
high end golf with the humanitarian aspect and get back.
So you know, not to go too deep into the
(42:15):
business plan of it, but it's basically a you you buy.
Speaker 4 (42:21):
The package.
Speaker 8 (42:23):
And you have four days where you go and enjoy
a total in house experience where you know, you have
a cabin or a villa that you stay at, you
get all the golf you want to play, and then
you know, portions of ten percent of the proceeds of
those packages goes back to the humanitarian aspect. And in
(42:44):
this case, what we are setting it up to do
is basically giving two days a week Monday and Tuesday,
where the course will be closed completely through the packages
and we open it up to the locals and we
bring in people from the golf business, uh, every aspect
of the golf business to you know, do seminars and
(43:07):
get local people involved in learning about the game and
learning about the business of the game. And then we
have scholarship opportunities that we're probably gonna offer. And but
what's really cool is and if you run the numbers,
if we do, I think it's two hundred packages a week,
(43:27):
we can raise about three million dollars a year for
the humanitarian aspect.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
And uh, it's really yeah, it's.
Speaker 8 (43:35):
An amazing opportunity and uh, you know, it gives these
these local people a sense of hope really and but
what what it really does, It gives them one opportunity
to get out and be involved work there. Right, they
can work at the course, and in the process of
doing that, they are rubbing shoulders with you know, influentious,
influential business people. You know, they're they're learning by car
(44:00):
slay through their experiences, right and through overhearing how business
deals are done, and overhearing all of these things. And
it's it's uh, really quite an amazing concept when when
you think about it, how how golf and the humanitarian
can be married together and that that's that's.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
The goal of the project.
Speaker 8 (44:21):
So that project, you know, the master plan's gone, We're
we're working on getting some approvals, working on the financing,
working on that aspect of it. But in the process
of that, it led to another project for me, and
and this one is the one that actually really really
(44:42):
excites me. But we had a solar component to the
Belize project because it was in third world blaze, right,
so we had to basically upgrade the utilities and we're
going to do it with with through the use of
solar power. And one of the influenced people in the
(45:04):
Sort company called me out of the blue and he said, hey,
I have an opportunity you might be interested in. I
have a business partner in other aspects and she.
Speaker 12 (45:17):
Is looking to do the.
Speaker 8 (45:18):
Almost the exact same type of facility that you're doing
a Beliez.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Would you mind talking to her? And I'm like, no,
I wouldn't mind. He goes good, I'm going to put
her on the phone right now, and I'm like, oh,
no pressure.
Speaker 8 (45:30):
So it ends up that this is the queen mother
of one of the provinces in Nigeria, and she is very,
very excited and passionate, and so we began conversations and
I actually met her in person and I had a
(45:51):
three hour scheduled meeting with her in her busy schedule,
and it ended up being a four hour meeting and
switch means, you know, we really hit it off off
and so I am in the process of getting under contract.
I'm supposed to be under contract with her in the
next ten to fourteen days to design twenty seven holes,
(46:11):
a twenty seven hole resort facility in Nigeria right outside
of Logos. And the goal of the project is to
have eighteen holes that they're willing to attract either the
DP Tour or the Asian Tour or even live and
so they want it to be very high end and
(46:32):
then the other nine is going to be more for
the resort guests of the different style course a little
easier to manage for people who just want to go
to the resort and get away and play golf. So
if they don't want to get beat up by a
championship course, they can, you know, just play the nine
hole and do whatever else. The resort will offer, and
it's again one of those fascinating projects because there will
(46:54):
be a huge humanitarian aspect on the back side of
it as well, and I'm very excited to be a
part of it. And I believe that through this we've
already been in discussion about potentially branding the concept and
then going globally with it. So kind of kind of
(47:15):
feels like my big break is here, and I'm very
excited to be part of projects that you know, have
a deeper meaning than just golf.
Speaker 2 (47:26):
What sounds like just another amazing chapter on what has
already been quite a journey that you've taken, sir.
Speaker 8 (47:32):
Well, yeah, thank you for saying that. It's it has
been a journey, and it's you know, one that I
honestly can't take credit for. I'm a Christian man, and
I really believe that God has put me in a
place to where He's guided me through everything and given
(47:53):
me the right resources to get to where I'm at today, and.
Speaker 4 (47:58):
That that's my driver right now. And you know that.
Speaker 8 (48:03):
Thus the you know, hey, let's let's let's make this
more about humanitarian efforts, you know, and give back, and
that's the goal. So in the process of doing that.
I have started my own management company on the back end,
and it's called Global Impact Golf, and I actually started
at the beginning of this year because I don't want
(48:27):
to do design and then have someone else take it over,
like a different management company and put their fingerprints all
over it. And you know, sometimes that doesn't translate well right,
it's I've seen it happen too many times where you
get through a design and they get through construction and
they hand the owner the keys, and the owners not
(48:49):
in the golf business, they don't have any desire to
be in the golf business, so they just hire somebody
to come manage the facility. Well great, but they don't
know the business plan, you know, they don't know how
the course was designed, you know, in relation to everything else,
and they don't understand what the course actually is in
the entire development, right, the meaning of the course and.
Speaker 4 (49:12):
How it relates.
Speaker 8 (49:13):
So who better to do that than the guy who
designed the course, you know, Like I know the business
plan sometimes better than the owner does. And so what
I'm trying to do with my management company has actually
maintained the credibility of the design, but also build the
brand and you know, make sure that the brand is
(49:35):
protected and what the course is supposed to be is protected.
And owners are actually really appreciative appreciative of that because
it kind of takes the stress off of them and
gives them a product that you know, when they're when
they're ready to exit the project, if that day comes,
they know that the product that they intended is is
(49:57):
there and maintained, and you know, the brand is built.
So that that's kind of a side feature to what
I offer, but it makes a lot of sense. And
usually that management contract is for the first five years,
so because it does take about that long to really
develop a brand and get the quality that you want
(50:20):
out of out of a new project.
Speaker 1 (50:24):
We hope you enjoyed the latest Danny Klinkscale Reasonably Irreverent podcast.
Come back soon for something fresh and new. This podcast
was made possible by our great sponsors like Eastern Roofing,
where integrity matters. Joe Spiker and his team are the
best in the business.
Speaker 7 (50:42):
For all your roofing needs.
Speaker 1 (50:44):
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Speaker 7 (50:47):
Visit them at Easternroofing dot com.
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