September 5, 2025 • 26 mins
His latest book is “Madden and Summerall” highlighting the unusual pairing or differimg personalities who combined to become football’s most famous broadcasting duo. Great backstories and good humor!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Danny Clinkscale, Reasonably Irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Path, Welcome to Kansas City Profiles presented by Easton Roofing,
and a very entertaining visit with Rich Podolski. He has
been an established writer and reporter since the nineteen seventies,
and in retirement, he has written several books, including the
book will Feature Today, Madden and Some Are All How
They Revolutionized NFL broadcasting and he of course, is also
(00:35):
the author of Youer Looking Live, about the NFL Today,
and has written other books as well. He's been a
staff writer for CBS Sports and has written for the
Philadelphia Daily News, the Palm Beach Post, the Wilmington News Journal,
and ESPN. He is a native of Philadelphia and also
the recipient of a prestigious Keystone Press Award for Writing
Excellence from the Pennsylvania Publishers Association, and his new book,
(00:59):
Madden and Samar is available at Amazon. He's also written
the book about the NFL Today, and also a couple
of books about music of the nineteen sixties and seventies.
Don Kirshner, The man with the Golden ear and Neil
sedaka rock and Roll survivor. So he's a very varied
and talented man. His entire career was in writing of
(01:19):
a different kind, and then in retirement he's written these books.
He's a pleasure to talk to a little under the
weather today, but still a great storyteller and with a
great story to tell and a great story for you
to read. Madden in Summer all how they revolutionized NFL broadcasting.
Our Kansas City profile is Rich Podowski, and we talk
with him next, presented by Eastern Roofing.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
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Rich are a longtime writer and have written several books
(04:23):
and including those that have strayed from outside of the
sports realm. But your new book, obviously is Madden in
Summer All how they revolutionized NFL broadcasting, and we will
talk about that in a little bit. Just tell me,
as a young guy, how you got involved in the
thought that you wanted to be a writer someday.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
I was a huge sports fan as a kid, and
I grew up in Philadelphia, which was a real sports
town with a lot of great sports writing. And it
was a guy named Larry Merchant. You might remember, ye hbo.
Larry Merchant was the sports editor of the Philadelphia Daily
News when I was about thirteen years old.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
And he was not only.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
A terrific writer, but a terrific sports editor because he
had collected some of the greatest sports writers in the
country and brought him to Philadelphia. And I used to
read those guys every day and I picked up their style.
But one day, my favorite player, Ritchie Ashburn, center fielder
(05:32):
for the Phillies, I won the batting title two different times.
It was a perennial All Star. He was traded away
to the Chicago Cubs and I believe it was the
spring of nineteen sixty and I was heartbroken. And then
I opened up the Daily News sports section and Larry
(05:55):
Merchant's lead on that item read, who gives a damn
in the dead of winter that the Phillies have made
another trade for the future. Richie Ashburn has gone and
I'd like to pay my respects well. When I read that,
I said, that's exactly how I feel, and it sort
(06:18):
of had put me of the mind that someday I'd
like to be a sports writer. And that happened when
I was in college, and one thing led to another,
and I wound up getting a job in the Wilmington
News Journal, where I want a a huge award, and
(06:39):
I was hired to cover the Miami Dolphins in nineteen
seventy three for the Palm Beach.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Coast And of course that was a preeminent franchise in
the NFL right there, coming off the undefeated season. So
you got rolling pretty early in the upper echelon of writing.
That's a pretty quick quick move for you.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
I was very fortunate I had.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
I got a guy named Mike Sissaka, a young editor
who was about five or six years older than me,
who I had a lot of experience and was a
reporter before becoming an editor. He was pushing me and
helping me and introduce me to the editor of the
Palm Beach Paper and sang my praises and that made
(07:25):
that higher possible and I stayed in touch with Mike
all through the years. Mike became one of the great
editors at the New York Times for a long time,
and in retirement I reached out to him to become
a personal editor for this book. In my previous book,
you are Looking Alive about the history of the NFL today.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And of course you would go on to write for
the NFL today. And when people think about that, they're like, well,
it's a television show. They're sitting there on a desk,
go why does anybody have to write for them? But
they need real preparation. What was that role like for you?
Speaker 6 (08:05):
It was mostly fun. It was a lot different type
of writing. Mostly for that that show, I had to
write lead ins.
Speaker 7 (08:18):
To video pieces.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Sometimes the leadings had to be a short as seven seconds.
You know.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
Brent would start every show.
Speaker 6 (08:27):
By saying, you are looking live at Soldier Field in
Chicago where today Walter Payton and the Bears take on
so and so in the Detroit line.
Speaker 7 (08:38):
Well, that's the copy I wrote for Brent at.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
The beginning of every show, and then he switched to
the next game at Franklin Field or Bett Stadium or
wherever it was, and uh and that that was called
the opening whip around teas that CBS initiated and brought
to UH the broadcast, and I was writing those, and
(09:04):
then they had a lot of video pieces. Phillis George
would do an interview and I had to write the
lead into that. I didn't write the interview, but I
wrote the lead into these, and it was really a
different type of writing. But I learned an awful lot
about television, and during the week I worked with the
(09:27):
public relations staff helping out.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So you are looking live the words that Brent Merk
Musburger made famous is your baby Huh.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
Well, I didn't come up with that. That happened was
early the first season. The director of the show, Bob Fishman, said,
you know, I've got a bunch of friends who are
bet on the games and they want to know what
the weather's going to be like. So Brent said, well,
you know, when we do that whip around thing. I
(10:00):
could say, you are looking alive, which will tell them
what the weather is when we show the field. So
that's how that came about. And he said that every
week for fifteen straight.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Years he did.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Indeed, you said that was mostly fun. Obviously that's a
great challenge and a different kind of writing. And so
you've done all you mentioned public relations, you mentioned obviously
being a sports writer, beat writer, columnists, that type of thing.
You've covered all the bases pretty much.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
So to speak.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Yes, So when John Matten came to CBS in nineteen
seventy nine, I was about the only one he knew
at the network, and he and I were cadsualized going
about town. I would take him to the sports saloons
like run Ins, which was a media hangout, and some
(10:53):
other places that he enjoyed for Mexican food or Delhi,
no big expensive restaurants.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
John hated those.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, obviously that would weave its way toward what we're
going to talk about here in a little bit, which
is your great new book, Madden in Summer Ale. I'm
part of the way into it and can't wait to
finish it up. How they revolutionized NFL broadcasting and we'll
talk about that in a little bit. But you've done
other books as well. You talked about you were looking
live that one right there, Sports Broadcast Journal dot Com
(11:24):
you work for guest columnist. But also you've done a
couple of musical books on one on Don Kirshner and
one on Neil Sedaka.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
When I first started writing books and retirement. My first
book came out when I was sixty five years old,
and it was the story about Don Kershner. For anybody
old enough to remember, Don Kirshner had a show on
every weekend called Don Kershner's Rock Concert it was, and
(11:57):
he was like an Ed Sullivan type, internedducing the great
rock acts that would come on his show, except at
least spoke normal English and Kirshner spoke broken brink Brooklyn English.
Speaker 7 (12:14):
And it was kind of historical.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Paul Schaeffer had a field day making fun of him
on Staurday Night Live. But before that show, Kirshner had
a backstory that nobody knew about. He was a song publisher,
and before that he being a song publisher, he was
(12:36):
trying to be a songwriter. And his songwriting partner was
a guy named Walden Robert Casado, who soon would change
his name to Bobby Darren, and that was the start
of it. He was trying to sell songs with Bobby Darren.
They all loved Darren. Darren got signed, became a big hit,
and Kirshner had to figure out his own career and
(12:59):
he realized that, well is it going to be as
a songwriter, and so he started a song publishing company
near the Brill Building. And his idea was to sign
all these great young teenage songwriters that he met who
were getting turned down in the Pro building by the
(13:24):
publishers or the record companies there.
Speaker 7 (13:28):
But he knew they had great songs.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
And he opened his door and the first one the
knock on it was Neil Sadaka and Howid Greenfield, and
he signed them, and a few months later Carol King
and Jerry Goffin and he was off and running. He
had published over two hundred hit songs that made the
(13:51):
top one hundred in a short five year period.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And the other book it was about Neil Sadaka. And
I do a music podcast also, and we were talking
about the Neil Sedaka recently because there was a big
profile of him in the New York Times fairly recently
about how he is. He survived and thrived, and Elton
John has befriended him, and all kinds of good stuff
like that. So those are two great subjects and a
(14:18):
lot of fun. You must have enjoyed that.
Speaker 7 (14:20):
Ye, I really did.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
When I talked to Neil about the Kirshner years, I
found out about his years when he was broken out
of work when the Beatles came in, and his mother
and her boyfriend had absconded with all his royalties, and
(14:44):
he had a wife and child, and he had to
find a way to earn a living, and he moved
to England where they still appreciated his songs, and he
met Elton John over there, and he had a bunch
of news songs at the time, and nobody you would
play them in America, but Elton John said, he's a
great song So I'm gonna put them on my label, Rocket,
(15:06):
the Rocket Label, and we'll get them out and we'll
see if we could make you a star all over again.
Speaker 7 (15:13):
That's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
Speaker 3 (15:19):
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Speaker 2 (16:55):
Our guest is Rich Podowski. He is the author of
Madden and Some Are All How they revolutionized NFL broadcasting.
He has become an author in his later years after
a distinguished career as a writer in all kinds of
different forms. And let's talk about the genesis of this
particular book. Obviously, with the background with the NFL Today
and your friendship with John Madden, it seems like kind
(17:15):
of a natural. But how did you decide you wanted
to take on this project.
Speaker 6 (17:20):
I was having lunch with a former colleague who had
been a great contributor to the NFL Today book, and
she said she had a lot. She had worked both
at CBS and Fox with these guys, and she said
she had a lot of real, great inside stories about them,
(17:40):
and she was thinking about writing a sub stack to
put some of that information out there.
Speaker 7 (17:47):
And it occurred.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
To me that of all the former CBS and Fox
colleagues I was friends with and how close I was with,
especially John Madden, that I had a lot of my
own stories that I could have access to and they
would make a great book. I also realized they had
(18:10):
changed the way we watched the game, and they had
really revolutionized the way.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
Networks prepared for broadcasts.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
And it's really their legacy that everybody copies them today.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well, one of the great things about the book is
the fact that you talk about their time together, but
you talk about the time before they got together as well,
and their interesting paths to the twenty one years they
would spend together.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
Yeah, they didn't get together until I mean summer all.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
I think was fifty two or fifty three when they
were paired togethers some are all I had.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
First worked as a radio guy.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
He was even a morning DJ, doing interviews and weather
and traffic and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
He was really.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
Enjoying his life doing that before he even got into TV,
until the station decided to go allD news all the time.
So he went over to CBSTV and asked for a
chance to be an analyst.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
And they hired him.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
At that time, it was sixty two, and I believe
it or not, the network had two sets of broadcasters.
For every game, they had play by play guy and
an analyst doing the broadcast back to the visiting team
and one for the home team, different one for the
(19:39):
home team. And that kind of economy of scale didn't
work after a while, but it was very popular in
the early days of football broadcasts, and summer All became
the number one analyst on Giants games working with Chris
Schenkle and he really learned his way around. And then
(20:03):
he worked almost seven years with Ray Scott, who was
CBS's premier play by play guy in the late sixties
and beginning.
Speaker 7 (20:15):
Of the seventies.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
Scott did the first several Super Bowls for CBS and
he was known for his brevity, and that's where summer
All picked it up and got it.
Speaker 7 (20:28):
He idolized Ray.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
Scott, and when he was paired with Madden, it was
the perfect pairing because Madden loved.
Speaker 7 (20:35):
To talk and summer all.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Which is get him in and let him go and
then get him out. He gave himself, totally gave himself up.
There's so much more he could have said and done,
but he gave John Madden the group to become the
great John Madden that we know well.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
The other adjustment was the fact that obviously he was
very good friends with Tom Brookshae are his favorite as
a former partner, and had to adjust to a more
iconoclastic partner in John Madden.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
Right. He and Brookie were the best of friends.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
They would go out every weekend before the game. They'd
start with the margaritas at the production meeting and they
wouldn't stop drinking. They probably have Bloody Mary's hidden under
the desk Sunday at the games and drinking became a
real problem. But they were terribly entertaining. America loved them.
(21:38):
They were everyone's stay. They got great reviews for the
first two Super Bowls they did, but the last one
they did they got ripped, especially Brookshire and the new
president's CBS Sports said I've had enough of that. Their
escapades split them up, and he decided he wanted John
Madden to be the analyst, a number one analyst, and
(22:00):
he wanted Vin Scully to be the play by play guy.
And Terry O'Neil, who was brought in to be the
head of NFL production for CBS, was vehemently against that
because he said Scully loves to do nothing but talk
and Madden wants to tell all the stories.
Speaker 7 (22:20):
He said, the viewer will be wrung out by halftime.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
So he talked the new president into a contest of sorts.
The first four weeks of the eighty one season, Madden
would work with Scully.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
The next four weeks was Summer All.
Speaker 6 (22:36):
And then on the Monday, October twenty sixth of that year,
all the CBS sports executives will get together in a
room and vote, and they all voted unanimously for Summer
All to be the guy. And finally they were put together.
It was like peanut butter and jelly meeting for the
first time. It was just a natural.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It wasn't natural. I think that was a phrase that
John Medden's son used as well, that you talk about
in the book. As much as they had an incredible
rapport on the air, they weren't you know, they didn't
spend a lot of time around each other off the air.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
They were two separate personalities in that regard. Some are
all like to hang out with the NFL executives from
the other teams go out to steak dinner and cocktails,
and Madden liked to hang out with the crew, the
young kids that Terry O'Neill hired to be broadcast associates
out of college and kind of be gophers and work
with the broadcasters and learn the business. And two of
(23:38):
them became very famous. Mike Arnold at CBS has directed
seven Super Bowls and Richie's Giants. It was that Fox
has produced six Super Bowls. But they were just young
kids at the time. And the siens I quote in
the book saying it was unbelievable for him to be
(23:59):
working with them both. He said it was like walking
with giants, That's the way he put it.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
And so some.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
Are like to.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
Steak dinners.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
Madden like to hang out with the kids and do
Mexican food or Delhi or something, but he didn't want
to do anything.
Speaker 7 (24:24):
Formal or anything like that. In fact, they probably never
even had.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Dinner together along the two of them, but they had
total respect and the admirations for each other, and there
after twenty one years there was probably a love there
between the two of them as well.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Well.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
It's all told in this tremendous book, Madden in some
are all how they revolutionized NFL broadcasting. You certainly have
had a fruitful retirement, sir. When you look back on
your entire career and your new career, you must be
very proud.
Speaker 7 (24:58):
I really enjoyed it, enjoyed the writing.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
I enjoyed my fifteen minutes of fame doing these interviews.
And you know, I've even done some TV stuff for
the last book in this book.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
And it's kind of fun. Yeah, I'm not doing it
for the money.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
And of course you can just tell us how you
can get the book, which I'm sure you can at
all the usual ways.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
It's available on Amazon right now. I'm an Amazon put
in Madden in summer. Aw, it'll pop right up.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
You can pre order it.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
It'll be at your doorstep in about.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
A week's time.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
And it's been a long and as I mentioned, fruitful career.
You must be very proud of what you've accomplished and
what you're still accomplishing.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
Yeah, I guess I'm a little proud of it, but
I don't think it's anything spectacular. I think I've just
been a real good storyteller, and I enjoy that people
are getting a kick out of reading these stories and
finding out all the inside scoop behind these guys.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
We hope you enjoyed the latest Danny Klinkscale Reasonably Irreverent podcast.
Come back soon for something fresh and new. This podcast
was made possible by our great sponsors like Advanced Sports
and Family Chiropractic and Acupuncture eight locations all around Kansas
City for expert and friendly services to fine tune you
(26:36):
for life.
Welcome to the Danny Clinkscale, Reasonably Irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Path, Welcome to Kansas City Profiles presented by Easton Roofing,
and a very entertaining visit with Rich Podolski. He has
been an established writer and reporter since the nineteen seventies,
and in retirement, he has written several books, including the
book will Feature Today, Madden and Some Are All How
They Revolutionized NFL broadcasting and he of course, is also
(00:35):
the author of Youer Looking Live, about the NFL Today,
and has written other books as well. He's been a
staff writer for CBS Sports and has written for the
Philadelphia Daily News, the Palm Beach Post, the Wilmington News Journal,
and ESPN. He is a native of Philadelphia and also
the recipient of a prestigious Keystone Press Award for Writing
Excellence from the Pennsylvania Publishers Association, and his new book,
(00:59):
Madden and Samar is available at Amazon. He's also written
the book about the NFL Today, and also a couple
of books about music of the nineteen sixties and seventies.
Don Kirshner, The man with the Golden ear and Neil
sedaka rock and Roll survivor. So he's a very varied
and talented man. His entire career was in writing of
(01:19):
a different kind, and then in retirement he's written these books.
He's a pleasure to talk to a little under the
weather today, but still a great storyteller and with a
great story to tell and a great story for you
to read. Madden in Summer all how they revolutionized NFL broadcasting.
Our Kansas City profile is Rich Podowski, and we talk
with him next, presented by Eastern Roofing.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
After this attention Kansas City business owners. Do you have
a business that has a leaky flat roof? Are you
tired of swapping out wet ceiling tiles? Are you tired
of paying for roofing service calls every time it rains?
Let Eastern Roofing's local commercial roofing expert get you back
to business faster. We give business owners the same customer
service bear hug we give our homeowners. So stop those
(02:06):
leaks before they turn into big, expensive problems with a
free roof inspection. Easternrooofing dot com nine one, three, two, five, seven,
fifty four to twenty six integrity matter.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
We're here with Matt Lewellen from the twenty third Street
Brewery Hence Brewery. So beer is important and you've got
great ones, Yes.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
We do, and we've got a great brewer. Angelo Ruiz
has been here for three years now and just Bruce
great great beer, always something new on tap. It's hard
to say what our best beers are because he always
has a new beer coming out for the season. I
was asked earlier today what we have coming up next,
and I'm like, I don't know. Ask Angelo. Come inside
(02:45):
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Securities and advisory services offered through LPL Financial, a Registered
Investment Advisor member FINRA SIPC. If you'd like to join
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at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look forward to working with you.
Rich are a longtime writer and have written several books
(04:23):
and including those that have strayed from outside of the
sports realm. But your new book, obviously is Madden in
Summer All how they revolutionized NFL broadcasting, and we will
talk about that in a little bit. Just tell me,
as a young guy, how you got involved in the
thought that you wanted to be a writer someday.
Speaker 6 (04:44):
I was a huge sports fan as a kid, and
I grew up in Philadelphia, which was a real sports
town with a lot of great sports writing. And it
was a guy named Larry Merchant. You might remember, ye hbo.
Larry Merchant was the sports editor of the Philadelphia Daily
News when I was about thirteen years old.
Speaker 7 (05:08):
And he was not only.
Speaker 6 (05:10):
A terrific writer, but a terrific sports editor because he
had collected some of the greatest sports writers in the
country and brought him to Philadelphia. And I used to
read those guys every day and I picked up their style.
But one day, my favorite player, Ritchie Ashburn, center fielder
(05:32):
for the Phillies, I won the batting title two different times.
It was a perennial All Star. He was traded away
to the Chicago Cubs and I believe it was the
spring of nineteen sixty and I was heartbroken. And then
I opened up the Daily News sports section and Larry
(05:55):
Merchant's lead on that item read, who gives a damn
in the dead of winter that the Phillies have made
another trade for the future. Richie Ashburn has gone and
I'd like to pay my respects well. When I read that,
I said, that's exactly how I feel, and it sort
(06:18):
of had put me of the mind that someday I'd
like to be a sports writer. And that happened when
I was in college, and one thing led to another,
and I wound up getting a job in the Wilmington
News Journal, where I want a a huge award, and
(06:39):
I was hired to cover the Miami Dolphins in nineteen
seventy three for the Palm Beach.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Coast And of course that was a preeminent franchise in
the NFL right there, coming off the undefeated season. So
you got rolling pretty early in the upper echelon of writing.
That's a pretty quick quick move for you.
Speaker 7 (07:00):
I was very fortunate I had.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
I got a guy named Mike Sissaka, a young editor
who was about five or six years older than me,
who I had a lot of experience and was a
reporter before becoming an editor. He was pushing me and
helping me and introduce me to the editor of the
Palm Beach Paper and sang my praises and that made
(07:25):
that higher possible and I stayed in touch with Mike
all through the years. Mike became one of the great
editors at the New York Times for a long time,
and in retirement I reached out to him to become
a personal editor for this book. In my previous book,
you are Looking Alive about the history of the NFL today.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And of course you would go on to write for
the NFL today. And when people think about that, they're like, well,
it's a television show. They're sitting there on a desk,
go why does anybody have to write for them? But
they need real preparation. What was that role like for you?
Speaker 6 (08:05):
It was mostly fun. It was a lot different type
of writing. Mostly for that that show, I had to
write lead ins.
Speaker 7 (08:18):
To video pieces.
Speaker 6 (08:21):
Sometimes the leadings had to be a short as seven seconds.
You know.
Speaker 7 (08:26):
Brent would start every show.
Speaker 6 (08:27):
By saying, you are looking live at Soldier Field in
Chicago where today Walter Payton and the Bears take on
so and so in the Detroit line.
Speaker 7 (08:38):
Well, that's the copy I wrote for Brent at.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
The beginning of every show, and then he switched to
the next game at Franklin Field or Bett Stadium or
wherever it was, and uh and that that was called
the opening whip around teas that CBS initiated and brought
to UH the broadcast, and I was writing those, and
(09:04):
then they had a lot of video pieces. Phillis George
would do an interview and I had to write the
lead into that. I didn't write the interview, but I
wrote the lead into these, and it was really a
different type of writing. But I learned an awful lot
about television, and during the week I worked with the
(09:27):
public relations staff helping out.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So you are looking live the words that Brent Merk
Musburger made famous is your baby Huh.
Speaker 6 (09:38):
Well, I didn't come up with that. That happened was
early the first season. The director of the show, Bob Fishman, said,
you know, I've got a bunch of friends who are
bet on the games and they want to know what
the weather's going to be like. So Brent said, well,
you know, when we do that whip around thing. I
(10:00):
could say, you are looking alive, which will tell them
what the weather is when we show the field. So
that's how that came about. And he said that every
week for fifteen straight.
Speaker 5 (10:11):
Years he did.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Indeed, you said that was mostly fun. Obviously that's a
great challenge and a different kind of writing. And so
you've done all you mentioned public relations, you mentioned obviously
being a sports writer, beat writer, columnists, that type of thing.
You've covered all the bases pretty much.
Speaker 7 (10:29):
So to speak.
Speaker 6 (10:30):
Yes, So when John Matten came to CBS in nineteen
seventy nine, I was about the only one he knew
at the network, and he and I were cadsualized going
about town. I would take him to the sports saloons
like run Ins, which was a media hangout, and some
(10:53):
other places that he enjoyed for Mexican food or Delhi,
no big expensive restaurants.
Speaker 7 (11:00):
John hated those.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Well, obviously that would weave its way toward what we're
going to talk about here in a little bit, which
is your great new book, Madden in Summer Ale. I'm
part of the way into it and can't wait to
finish it up. How they revolutionized NFL broadcasting and we'll
talk about that in a little bit. But you've done
other books as well. You talked about you were looking
live that one right there, Sports Broadcast Journal dot Com
(11:24):
you work for guest columnist. But also you've done a
couple of musical books on one on Don Kirshner and
one on Neil Sedaka.
Speaker 7 (11:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (11:36):
When I first started writing books and retirement. My first
book came out when I was sixty five years old,
and it was the story about Don Kershner. For anybody
old enough to remember, Don Kirshner had a show on
every weekend called Don Kershner's Rock Concert it was, and
(11:57):
he was like an Ed Sullivan type, internedducing the great
rock acts that would come on his show, except at
least spoke normal English and Kirshner spoke broken brink Brooklyn English.
Speaker 7 (12:14):
And it was kind of historical.
Speaker 6 (12:15):
Paul Schaeffer had a field day making fun of him
on Staurday Night Live. But before that show, Kirshner had
a backstory that nobody knew about. He was a song publisher,
and before that he being a song publisher, he was
(12:36):
trying to be a songwriter. And his songwriting partner was
a guy named Walden Robert Casado, who soon would change
his name to Bobby Darren, and that was the start
of it. He was trying to sell songs with Bobby Darren.
They all loved Darren. Darren got signed, became a big hit,
and Kirshner had to figure out his own career and
(12:59):
he realized that, well is it going to be as
a songwriter, and so he started a song publishing company
near the Brill Building. And his idea was to sign
all these great young teenage songwriters that he met who
were getting turned down in the Pro building by the
(13:24):
publishers or the record companies there.
Speaker 7 (13:28):
But he knew they had great songs.
Speaker 6 (13:30):
And he opened his door and the first one the
knock on it was Neil Sadaka and Howid Greenfield, and
he signed them, and a few months later Carol King
and Jerry Goffin and he was off and running. He
had published over two hundred hit songs that made the
(13:51):
top one hundred in a short five year period.
Speaker 2 (13:56):
And the other book it was about Neil Sadaka. And
I do a music podcast also, and we were talking
about the Neil Sedaka recently because there was a big
profile of him in the New York Times fairly recently
about how he is. He survived and thrived, and Elton
John has befriended him, and all kinds of good stuff
like that. So those are two great subjects and a
(14:18):
lot of fun. You must have enjoyed that.
Speaker 7 (14:20):
Ye, I really did.
Speaker 6 (14:23):
When I talked to Neil about the Kirshner years, I
found out about his years when he was broken out
of work when the Beatles came in, and his mother
and her boyfriend had absconded with all his royalties, and
(14:44):
he had a wife and child, and he had to
find a way to earn a living, and he moved
to England where they still appreciated his songs, and he
met Elton John over there, and he had a bunch
of news songs at the time, and nobody you would
play them in America, but Elton John said, he's a
great song So I'm gonna put them on my label, Rocket,
(15:06):
the Rocket Label, and we'll get them out and we'll
see if we could make you a star all over again.
Speaker 7 (15:13):
That's exactly what happened.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
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If you'd like to join these and other great sponsors
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hearing from you.
Speaker 2 (16:55):
Our guest is Rich Podowski. He is the author of
Madden and Some Are All How they revolutionized NFL broadcasting.
He has become an author in his later years after
a distinguished career as a writer in all kinds of
different forms. And let's talk about the genesis of this
particular book. Obviously, with the background with the NFL Today
and your friendship with John Madden, it seems like kind
(17:15):
of a natural. But how did you decide you wanted
to take on this project.
Speaker 6 (17:20):
I was having lunch with a former colleague who had
been a great contributor to the NFL Today book, and
she said she had a lot. She had worked both
at CBS and Fox with these guys, and she said
she had a lot of real, great inside stories about them,
(17:40):
and she was thinking about writing a sub stack to
put some of that information out there.
Speaker 7 (17:47):
And it occurred.
Speaker 6 (17:48):
To me that of all the former CBS and Fox
colleagues I was friends with and how close I was with,
especially John Madden, that I had a lot of my
own stories that I could have access to and they
would make a great book. I also realized they had
(18:10):
changed the way we watched the game, and they had
really revolutionized the way.
Speaker 7 (18:16):
Networks prepared for broadcasts.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
And it's really their legacy that everybody copies them today.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
Well, one of the great things about the book is
the fact that you talk about their time together, but
you talk about the time before they got together as well,
and their interesting paths to the twenty one years they
would spend together.
Speaker 7 (18:40):
Yeah, they didn't get together until I mean summer all.
Speaker 6 (18:42):
I think was fifty two or fifty three when they
were paired togethers some are all I had.
Speaker 7 (18:50):
First worked as a radio guy.
Speaker 6 (18:53):
He was even a morning DJ, doing interviews and weather
and traffic and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (19:00):
He was really.
Speaker 6 (19:02):
Enjoying his life doing that before he even got into TV,
until the station decided to go allD news all the time.
So he went over to CBSTV and asked for a
chance to be an analyst.
Speaker 7 (19:16):
And they hired him.
Speaker 6 (19:19):
At that time, it was sixty two, and I believe
it or not, the network had two sets of broadcasters.
For every game, they had play by play guy and
an analyst doing the broadcast back to the visiting team
and one for the home team, different one for the
(19:39):
home team. And that kind of economy of scale didn't
work after a while, but it was very popular in
the early days of football broadcasts, and summer All became
the number one analyst on Giants games working with Chris
Schenkle and he really learned his way around. And then
(20:03):
he worked almost seven years with Ray Scott, who was
CBS's premier play by play guy in the late sixties
and beginning.
Speaker 7 (20:15):
Of the seventies.
Speaker 6 (20:17):
Scott did the first several Super Bowls for CBS and
he was known for his brevity, and that's where summer
All picked it up and got it.
Speaker 7 (20:28):
He idolized Ray.
Speaker 6 (20:29):
Scott, and when he was paired with Madden, it was
the perfect pairing because Madden loved.
Speaker 7 (20:35):
To talk and summer all.
Speaker 6 (20:38):
Which is get him in and let him go and
then get him out. He gave himself, totally gave himself up.
There's so much more he could have said and done,
but he gave John Madden the group to become the
great John Madden that we know well.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
The other adjustment was the fact that obviously he was
very good friends with Tom Brookshae are his favorite as
a former partner, and had to adjust to a more
iconoclastic partner in John Madden.
Speaker 7 (21:08):
Right. He and Brookie were the best of friends.
Speaker 6 (21:13):
They would go out every weekend before the game. They'd
start with the margaritas at the production meeting and they
wouldn't stop drinking. They probably have Bloody Mary's hidden under
the desk Sunday at the games and drinking became a
real problem. But they were terribly entertaining. America loved them.
(21:38):
They were everyone's stay. They got great reviews for the
first two Super Bowls they did, but the last one
they did they got ripped, especially Brookshire and the new
president's CBS Sports said I've had enough of that. Their
escapades split them up, and he decided he wanted John
Madden to be the analyst, a number one analyst, and
(22:00):
he wanted Vin Scully to be the play by play guy.
And Terry O'Neil, who was brought in to be the
head of NFL production for CBS, was vehemently against that
because he said Scully loves to do nothing but talk
and Madden wants to tell all the stories.
Speaker 7 (22:20):
He said, the viewer will be wrung out by halftime.
Speaker 6 (22:24):
So he talked the new president into a contest of sorts.
The first four weeks of the eighty one season, Madden
would work with Scully.
Speaker 7 (22:33):
The next four weeks was Summer All.
Speaker 6 (22:36):
And then on the Monday, October twenty sixth of that year,
all the CBS sports executives will get together in a
room and vote, and they all voted unanimously for Summer
All to be the guy. And finally they were put together.
It was like peanut butter and jelly meeting for the
first time. It was just a natural.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
It wasn't natural. I think that was a phrase that
John Medden's son used as well, that you talk about
in the book. As much as they had an incredible
rapport on the air, they weren't you know, they didn't
spend a lot of time around each other off the air.
Speaker 6 (23:13):
They were two separate personalities in that regard. Some are
all like to hang out with the NFL executives from
the other teams go out to steak dinner and cocktails,
and Madden liked to hang out with the crew, the
young kids that Terry O'Neill hired to be broadcast associates
out of college and kind of be gophers and work
with the broadcasters and learn the business. And two of
(23:38):
them became very famous. Mike Arnold at CBS has directed
seven Super Bowls and Richie's Giants. It was that Fox
has produced six Super Bowls. But they were just young
kids at the time. And the siens I quote in
the book saying it was unbelievable for him to be
(23:59):
working with them both. He said it was like walking
with giants, That's the way he put it.
Speaker 7 (24:07):
And so some.
Speaker 6 (24:09):
Are like to.
Speaker 7 (24:12):
Steak dinners.
Speaker 6 (24:13):
Madden like to hang out with the kids and do
Mexican food or Delhi or something, but he didn't want
to do anything.
Speaker 7 (24:24):
Formal or anything like that. In fact, they probably never
even had.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Dinner together along the two of them, but they had
total respect and the admirations for each other, and there
after twenty one years there was probably a love there
between the two of them as well.
Speaker 5 (24:42):
Well.
Speaker 2 (24:42):
It's all told in this tremendous book, Madden in some
are all how they revolutionized NFL broadcasting. You certainly have
had a fruitful retirement, sir. When you look back on
your entire career and your new career, you must be
very proud.
Speaker 7 (24:58):
I really enjoyed it, enjoyed the writing.
Speaker 6 (25:01):
I enjoyed my fifteen minutes of fame doing these interviews.
And you know, I've even done some TV stuff for
the last book in this book.
Speaker 7 (25:11):
And it's kind of fun. Yeah, I'm not doing it
for the money.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
And of course you can just tell us how you
can get the book, which I'm sure you can at
all the usual ways.
Speaker 6 (25:23):
It's available on Amazon right now. I'm an Amazon put
in Madden in summer. Aw, it'll pop right up.
Speaker 7 (25:33):
You can pre order it.
Speaker 6 (25:35):
It'll be at your doorstep in about.
Speaker 7 (25:38):
A week's time.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
And it's been a long and as I mentioned, fruitful career.
You must be very proud of what you've accomplished and
what you're still accomplishing.
Speaker 7 (25:48):
I'm enjoying it.
Speaker 6 (25:49):
Yeah, I guess I'm a little proud of it, but
I don't think it's anything spectacular. I think I've just
been a real good storyteller, and I enjoy that people
are getting a kick out of reading these stories and
finding out all the inside scoop behind these guys.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
We hope you enjoyed the latest Danny Klinkscale Reasonably Irreverent podcast.
Come back soon for something fresh and new. This podcast
was made possible by our great sponsors like Advanced Sports
and Family Chiropractic and Acupuncture eight locations all around Kansas
City for expert and friendly services to fine tune you
(26:36):
for life.
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