October 24, 2025 • 63 mins
It's Sunflower Showdown weekend, a perfect time to catch up with Jayhawk Network football analyst David Lawrence. We'll look at the big game, and then reprise his hometown success story as a player, coach and now broadcaster for KU. Great stories and keen insights!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Danny Clinkscale Reasonably irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten path.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Kansas City Profiles presented by Easton Roofing. And
it's great time to catch up with David Lawrence, the
football analyst on the Jayhawk Network, among his many duties
there and of course Kansas player educator coach through the years,
and still keeps very very busy with a whole variety
of different things. David, glad to have you look forward
(00:37):
to this little chat and tell us what you're up
to these days in addition to your duties with the
Jayhawk Radio Network.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Danny's great to be on with you. My first and
foremost duty is a grandfather. I've got seven granddaughters and
a grandson and that's the biggest part of my life.
But aside from that, I still cover Kansas football, men's
and women's basketball. So getting braced and ready to go
(01:06):
for November, which, as you know, the Crossoverseason keeps us
really busy, So looking forward to that and obviously Saturday's Dylan.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Some for our showdown well as well. Here during our
conversation we had a couple of years back. That's coming up.
There are many many fun tales about your time with
coach fam and his rivalry stories with the University of Missouri,
But during your time as a player, what was the
rivalry like with the Cats.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, obviously a different a different age, right, Kansas State
struggled for you know, seventy eighty years before hiring Bill
Snyder to maybe the biggest turnaround in the history of
college football. So there was an expectation, you know, that
you took care of business in state, not just once
(02:04):
in a while, but every year. That was kind of
what you were charged with. And then you know, with
Missouri it kind of went back and forth, kind of
a fifty to fifty thing. But yeah, coach Fambrough, he
saved all of his excitement for for the Missouri Tigers,
didn't get quite as crazy for Kansas State. But again,
(02:26):
that was a different time. What Bill Snyder has done
has just turned this thing around, and the Jayhawks under
Lance Lightehold are set out to hold their own against
a good football program in Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, and obviously Kansas had some success under coach Mangino
during that span of time, but it's been a long
time since there's been success. The games have been much
much closer and competitive the last couple of years under
coach Lighthold, and Saturday seems to be in that category.
In Kansas for the first time in a long time
is favored. The Jayhawks have not had the kind of
(03:04):
season that they have wanted so far. In fact, probably
neither has Kansas State, and this game is as important
for each team.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It would seem.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Avoiding losing as it is winning, because the season would
be kind of in peril for either team with a loss.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, the last two years certainly wonnerful games for the Jayhawks,
and you know, obviously you have to go out and
do something about it, and getting close is not good enough.
I think this Kansas team is talented. They've proven so.
They've had a couple of close disappointments to good teams,
(03:42):
and you know, I think there's so much parody in
the Big Twelve Conference. Now there's an opportunity to go
out for either one of these teams and finish really
strong and accomplishing a lot of goals in their season
with the game's remaining. So that's what Kansas has set
out to do on Saturday. You know, the records, you
(04:08):
kind of throw those out. But Kansas State, it doesn't
take a football coach to understand that this is a
They were never a team that was bad. I mean,
they were just having some bad breaks. We can relate
to that certainly last year with what we went through
the first half of the season, and they certainly righted
(04:30):
the ship in a lot of ways the last couple
of weeks, and the Jayhawks will take on, you know,
a good football team, which we knew all along.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It hasn't been the strength of Kansas State running the football,
but Kansas has struggled to stop the run. That has
to be one of the keys that was stressed during
the bye week and obviously on Saturday. That starts the process.
Football coaches always talk about that that's stopping the run
is job one, and it should be for Kansas, right.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah. I think the thing I would say about the
Kansas defense is just inconsistent. I just could go up
and down the lineup and point out a lot of
good football players throughout, but on given days they have
struggled in stopping the run and have given up some
(05:20):
long runs to Texas Tech, to Missouri, and a little
bit to Cincinnati in between. There. It's a team that
is a good job of applying pressure, getting tackles for
loss and sacks, and some good coverages as well, but
(05:40):
it will need to be the latter and not the
former to be successful against the Kansas State run, which
has kind of reinvented itself with Joe Jackson and one
of the most athletic quarterbacks in the country and Avery Johnson.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Let's talk a little bit about the atmosphere. Obviously it's
still a work in progress but partly leaded, and so
Kansas will be taking on Kansas State and to quote
unquote new stadium on Saturday. What's that been like for
you then looking around and seeing the excitement and seeing
the growth.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
It's fantastic, you know, it's just beautiful, state of the art. Yeah,
we look forward to getting it done, but seventy percent
of it is there and we're just enjoying the new amenities.
A great place to watch college football. The technology is
all updated and it gets you closer to the action
(06:33):
on the field, and that's something that all the stadiums
built with a track, particularly previous to nineteen fifty, you know,
had there was a little setback and you're not on
top of the action like the new stadiums are. So
we're enjoying just everything about the new David Booth Kansas
(06:54):
Memorial Stadium. And you know, I've always said best setting
for college football right there at the base of the
campany Lea Hill and just a great atmosphere which will
abound on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, it should be a great call and great fun.
And I wish you all good fun with the grandkids
and keeping busy in that regard. And we'll be listening
on Saturday with a great call at eleven am on
the Jayhawk Network.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
We look forward to it. It should be a great game
and I'm glad all the fans can get out there
rain or our sun. We don't know what to expect,
but that game happen.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
David Lawrence joining us, so you can hear him Saturday
on the Jayhawk Network. It starts at nine point thirty
with the pregame show, and coming up next, we'll revisit
our wonderful conversation from a few years back, detailing some
of those coach fam stories and David growing up in
Lawrence and becoming a Jayhawk. All that up next on
Kansas City Profiles presented by Eastern Roofing.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
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Securities and advisory services offered through LPL Financial, a Registered
Investment Advisor member FINRA SIPC. We're here at the twenty
third Street Brewery with Matt Llewellen all the time. There's
exciting things going on, New Water feature, new beers, and
this fall football is back in Lawrence and that's cool.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
Football back in Lawrence. Can you imagine that we actually
had to endure a year without it?
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Well, it is back.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
It's back on campus. We're so happy that they're here,
just like years pas. We offer a free shuttle coming
from the twenty third Tree Brewery an hour and a
half before game time. We partner with the Boys and
Girls Club to do that, so it's helping a good
cause also, so come in to the brewery early before
the game. Free shuttle to and from the football game.
We love to have you out here, excited to have
(10:16):
the Jayhawks back in town where they belong.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Great food, great beers, great fun during football season at
the twenty third Street Brewery twenty third and Castle in Lawrence.
If you'd like to join these and other fine sponsors
and market your business to Kansas City's number one variety podcast,
contact us at Danny at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look
forward to working with you. Welcome back, and David, you
(10:39):
are a native of Parsons, Kansas and grew up there,
went to high school there. But first off, when we start,
almost at the beginning, what was it like being a
little boy in Parsons, Kansas? And tell us about Parsons.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, Parsons was a great place to grow up. Like
many small towns in Kansas, it was kind of controlled
by the railroad, you know, as that fizzled out, towns
like that across the state. As I've kind of struggled,
but it's still there. It's still a great place to
call home. And I was a three sport person in
Parsons and about the age of ten, my dad took
(11:17):
my brother and myself in September of nineteen sixty eight.
I remember it like it was yesterday, and we went
to Lawrence, Kansas, and I walked up the Campanely Hill,
biggest hill I'd ever seen before in my life, and
looked down over into the stadium and had all the flags.
(11:39):
It had rained that September, so it was so green,
and Kansas football was playing in nineteen sixty eight. It
was the Orange Bowl team, and I think right there
is when I definitely said to myself, that's what I
want to do. I would just love to do that.
It was a great team to follow. And then, you know,
(12:01):
years after that, I went to about one game a year,
and then finally as a senior in high school, I
had that realized when they offered me a scholarship.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Tell me about your dad, your mom, and you're growing up.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Well, my dad was a printer and my mom was
a teacher, and she was a big singer that sang
in all the all the social events around town, and
she actually got me involved in that in high school
at least that was really big to her. And my
family was a tennis family. Actually I played a lot
(12:37):
of tennis in high school. My mom was a city champ,
my brother's city champ, sister city champ, and wow, so
I got involved a little bit of that. On the weekends,
we went boating at a place called Grand Lake, which
was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's cool. So did you have you had two siblings?
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I had three siblings. Yeah. They were two brothers, both
football players, and my sister a tennis player. And two
of them still live in Parsons, So that gives me
reason to go back down there and see them.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Said you were a three sport guy, and you know
that plus tennis, I would imagine. So when did you
what was your favorite when you were growing up and
when did you see that you had a little aptitude
in sports?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, you know, I probably played tennis earlier, in basketball
for the most part. You know, football you couldn't play
until about eighth grade. Didn't really get much heighth and
develop until I was a little bit later. But I
really enjoyed all three sports. It probably wasn't until my
(13:44):
junior senior year that I realized I would have perhaps
a better opportunity to play football, and that probably was
my first love ever since I went to that Kansas
football game and didn't really realize until late junior year
or early senior year that you know, I was someone
(14:08):
to be recruited at a large scale and I would
actually have that opportunity to play at Kansas. It was
kind of a pipe dream up up until that senior
year when I, you know, grew another two inches, So
that was really fulfilling to have that dream and having
it fulfilled your senior year.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Were you always alignment or because you were smaller, did
you play other positions?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
First, you know, I was a tight end and in
high school actually recruited as a tight end to Kansas,
even though it was the wishbone offense. So that was
a little hard pill to swallow. My third year there,
under Don Fambrough, who would later become my mentor and
(14:51):
a father figure, that staff moved me at offensive guard,
and I thought that the world had come to an end.
It was kind of difficult to give up catching the ball.
It was something I enjoyed doing, but just pure speed
was something that you needed more of. I needed more
of to continue to play tight end, and certainly my
(15:14):
ceiling was a lot higher at offensive guard, so a
little reluctantly I made the switch over to guard my
sophomore year and ended up having some success at those positions,
But certainly my my biggest love was catching the football
as a tied end.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, you had that dream of going to Kansas, and
you love the university and you love the setting and
everything else, and you were recruited and it was a
great dream. But you I think reading some accounts that
you weren't all that thrilled with the staff that actually
ended up recruiting you. Is that correct? Or at least
the head coach.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I mean yes, I mean but more and the wishbone.
He was a Bear Bryant disciple. He was probably the
last coach in Division IE in the country, that's my guess,
that still denied water to create more toughness in his
(16:17):
student athletes. And he did three a day practices through
up until school started. And of course you and I
were classmates, and you remember some of those hot August
So yeah, you put that together, being denied water and
three a days and it certainly gave us a lot
of toughness, didn't have quite the personality of Don Fambrough
(16:39):
or the love of Kansas. I would realize that after
Bud Moore was fired, to get to meet Don Fambreau,
and of course he had already been the head coach previously,
and in kind of an awkward situation, all the players
that I met when I started in nineteen seventy seven
(17:00):
Evan would tell stories of a true coach that they loved,
and Don Fambrough, so I knew a lot about him
even before he arrived and found in him just as
good as advertised when he took back over the program
in nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
That's a weird dynamic. How did that? I don't know
if you even know that you know the details of it.
But for got to be the coach and then another
guy comes in as the coach, and actually Bud Moore
had a little bit of success early on especially, and
then to bring back the other coach so quickly, you
know that, that's kind of strange. How did that? How
(17:40):
did that go? How did it happen?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I think the new athletics director realized that the success
that Bud Moore had was really because of the recruitment
of Don Fambrough. He just had a very creative way,
I mean and simply just love Kansas, and I think
that came out in his recruit And you know, he
was the head coach two different times for four years
(18:05):
a piece, but he was an assistant coach for twenty years,
and even as an assistant coach, you know, was probably
responsible for dozens of future NFL players and great players
in college football. And of course Fambro even gave the
famous Missouri talk for probably three decades after he was
(18:28):
fired in nineteen eighty two. So Fambro just loved this
place and that was that was appealing to me, and
that's what really drew me to want to be a coach,
a coach under him, and that was something that became
my goal after really getting to know Don Vambro.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
But you did have success as a player, and the
team also had a pretty good amount of success while
you were there. People you know, think of Kansas through
the years generally as a struggling football program, they have
certainly had patches where it has been good. And your
time at Kansas the team was pretty darn successful.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yes, we were and you know when Vambroa took back over,
there was kind of a rejuvenation of just lots of
energy and Vambro is the one that brought that. He
also brought not a good but a great coaching staff
with him. I think after the Fambro staff was fired,
(19:29):
seventy percent of and went on to the NFL. So
just quality people. Fam had the ability to do that,
and we did have that success. That was a lot
of fun, you know, And that's something that Leiphold is
talking about. It's great to come into a program, you know,
like Nebraska or Oklahoma back then that had all that success,
but you could argue it's even more special when you
(19:53):
come in and you work your way up. And there
was a year we were one in ten and then
you know, three and eight, and then five, five and one,
and you know, on to be eight and three and
beat Missouri in your last game and that was special.
And go to a bowl game, albeit just the Bowl
in Birmingham, which was about forty degrees and cloudy, but
(20:17):
you know, we didn't care. It was it was something
that we'd worked for and really wanted to be a
part of a bowl game, and it was great to
do it for Fambrough. He was just a popular guy
amongst his players. And you're right, the sixties and seventies,
you could turn on the television and the NFL and
you would just see a number of Jayhawks in the NFL.
(20:40):
I mean people like Riggins and of course Haydel earlier
and Bobby Douglas and John Zook and the list just
goes on and on of players. So yeah, we were
well represented. And you know the thing I kid at
Vambro about he could have been a little better a
coach if he didn't play the who's who of college
foot ball in the three actually back then it was
(21:03):
the four non conference games. Traditionally we would start out
with top twenty teams, you know, playing like Tennessee, Florida State, Miami.
I mean, the list goes on and on. They're just
And I asked Pamber, why would you do that because
you're not going to be able to have a good record,
And he thought it just wasn't it didn't do justice
(21:26):
to our university to play schools that, you know, were
the directional schools. He just thought that it just was
what the University of Kansas deserves to play. Other top universities,
and that's what he believed in. That's what he did.
And I think you know Ted Owens did the same
thing in basketball, and you know that made the records
(21:49):
for Ted probably a little bit more difficult. But that's
just not something you did back in the nineteen seventies.
Has pad your schedule with the games that you had
a high percentage chance of winning, So that really prevented
the good records. But there was there was a lot
of teams there, had they scheduled differently, could have had
(22:11):
winning records. And of course back then, you know, it
was the resulting just a scattering of the right big
bowl games you didn't you didn't have at six and
six or five and five and one, you did, you
didn't go to a bowl. I mean, you had to
be eighty three, and it was a lot bit more difficult.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Tell me about some of the guys on the eighty
one team and that team that really was a progression
through your time there from you know, under coach vanbrou
from three and eight to four, five and two, and
then eight and four, eight and three in the regular
season obviously, and we'll get to a cool story about
the game against Missouri here in a minute, but take
some folks down memory lane and talk about some of
(22:51):
your teammates and the kind of team that you had.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, we had one of the best linebackers I think
in Kansas history, guy by the name of Kyle mc norton, actually,
you know, made a roster two consecutive years, but got
hurt in the last game of the preseason and didn't
get that opportunity. Frank Sire was a quarterback that actually
(23:18):
made the Chiefs one year and had a little NFL success.
We had a tremendous defense. You know, Greg Smith was
a nose guard. He was an excellent, excellent defensive lineman.
Tom Battle was a defensive line, defensive coordinator and he
just did a great job and later coached in the NFL.
(23:40):
Ken Stevenson was the offensive line coach. He had a
great career with the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know, Wayne Caper's
David Burser were two very good wide receivers for Kansas
back then. And then we were excellent in special teams.
Bucky Scribner, who we have since lost, was one, if
(24:03):
not the best punter in the league. And Bruce Kalmyer
an all American kicker. So we just did a great
job with you know, that third of the game that
a lot of times gets ignored in today's times, and
very good defense, and we didn't turn the ball over,
(24:23):
so we played smart football. There's other teams that probably
have more talent, but I think we were well coached.
I had great special teams, and we really wanted to win.
I mean it was a big deal to us.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Both you and Missouri had good seasons heading into the
game that was always played at the end of the
season then and for a long time, and you thought
initially going in that the game was going to be
basically a head to head for a ball bid, and
then maybe you found out that that wasn't the case.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I applaud your research, Danny. Not too many people know
about that Missouri had a top four defense in the country.
I mean, they were really, really good. We were told
the Tangerine Bowl was going to take the winner of
the Kansas Missouri game. Missouri was ranked, you know, just
(25:21):
outside of the top ten. I'm sure favored. I don't
really remember the points spread of what it was. And
then Monday of that week, Fambro came in and gave
us the news that the Tangerine Bull worked a kind
of a backdoor deal with the Tigers, and and of
course that's all Fambro needed, you know, to no one,
(25:45):
no one could could ever get a team more up
to playing arrival than Don Vambrou. And of course he's
famous for telling me quote Missouri story, but he really
used that the deal that Missouri made with the Tangerine Bull,
and I mean that game was probably decided there. He
(26:05):
had us so fired up and ready, and who knows
how much of it was the truth. He never let
that getting away of a good story. But our defense,
special teams, they scored a late touchdown, but it was
really nineteen to three until the very end, it ended
up being nineteen to eleven. And you know, what a
(26:25):
great way to go out to going against Missouri, and
there was nothing like that. I mean, there was just
something special about that rivalry which is different than even
other top rivalries that people talk about in college football.
And it's because of the grassroots of where it started.
And we were so fired up and there's just no
(26:49):
way that we were going to lose that day to Missouri.
And that's just a great memory to have with their friends,
you know when you see them following that all these years,
and it'll be always a special memory. But a great
job of motivation by Fambrough and getting us ready to play.
And you know, Missouri was a great team. They were
(27:12):
certainly a great team that year. They had a lot
of those great teams, and it says a lot about,
you know, how motivated Kansas was to play Missouri every year,
the fact that we were almost even for the all
time series. As Ambrose always said, they had the best,
you know, recruiting ability in the country, being a state
(27:35):
that large and not really sharing it with anyone, and
of course Kansas sharing a smaller state with Kansas State,
but we managed to get pretty fired up from Missouri
every year. And I know that they did the same
for the Jayhawks.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
You were a team captain on that team, and if
my research is right, you were the offensive player of
the year as a guard. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah? Did you talk to my mom before this? I do?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
It is my job to do research for this.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Well, I mean you got to dig hard for some
of this stuff. In nineteen eighty one, Yeah, I was
very flattered that I.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Was picked as it's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Outstanding offensive player. John Hadel was our coordinator, and you know,
I was injured that year and it was a secondary
tear in the medial collateral need ligament. Back then, they
would operate immediately on that. I got that news in
the third game, and you know, I thought it was
(28:39):
just the worst thing in the world. And then a
doctor by the name of Mike McCoy who actually still
practices in Topeka. He was a former offensive lineman for Kansas,
and he contacted our athletic trainer and he's said, you know,
there's a new way to treat these secondary tears. And
basically he did what they do today, and that's nothing.
(29:03):
You immobilize them and keep your muscles strong around there.
And it was surrounded by an off weeks. Only missed
two games. Wow, And Fambrough made a big deal of that,
bigger than probably it was. And so yeah, that was
that was a nice thing to do. And there was
a lot of great players on that team. But I
(29:26):
was fortunate to be a part of it and to
be named captain, and we only had two captains back then,
and that was voted on by the team and certainly
that was a big honor for me.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Tell me about what life was like away from football
at KU during your time there in the late seventies
and early eighties, you.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Could probably share that answer with me.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Danny, Well, you played football. I didn't have to play football,
so I get more trouble.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Well, we were very busy during the year, and it
seemed like any time that was really nice out were
you know, the girls would be around the ball. We
were always in spring football or ball football, because you know,
spring ball went a lot longer back then. But we
did the best we could in the winter time to
make up and record with our funds. And there is
(30:18):
a lot of drinking establishments downtown and yeah, we we
we made up for that in the winter time. We
kind of stuck to business during the football season. And
and but but it was it was a good time
to be at Jayhawk. And and I've always been a
big KU basketball fan. But what was kind of interesting
(30:38):
about that time, and you'll remember this, there was actually
a couple of years there in nineteen eighty eighty one
that that that football was kind of as big a
deal as basketball was. And I guess that that made
you feel pretty good. The fact that the students and
fans of Jayhawk fans were you know, were equally interested
(31:01):
in football, and you know, certainly something that we hope
we can get going with Lancelipol, but not that you know,
people have to choose one or the other. But it's
great when you know, when you're a football school and
a basketball school. So that was that was fun to
know that, you know, you were viewed equal to basketball.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Well, you would eventually become a high school coach and
teach high school. What was your academic thoughts as you
were also playing football and having a good time?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
You know, I was a physical education major. My goal
was to be a college football coach and actually had
a Vambro came to me as a when I was
a grad assistant and said, well, you know, you do
this for a couple of years and I'm going to
make you a full time assistant. And it was really
(32:00):
because of that message that's why I decided not to
go to the combine or I ended up signing a
free agent with the Dallas Cowboys. But they found some
damage of my neck due to a lot of stingers,
and that news was enough and a very low salary
of I think thirty nine thousand for the first year,
(32:21):
and it made me decide, you know what, I want
to be a college coach under Don pambro and so
I liketed to do that and a little naive to
the how college football was as Fambrough went from coach
of the Year in nineteen eighty one to being fired
in nineteen eighty two, so you know, the best late
(32:44):
plans you just kind of tear me right. And I
met my wife Linda and decided that I don't want
to travel around the country to be to follow the
coaching field in college. I want to just put my
roots here in Lawrence, Kansas, And so I decided to
(33:05):
go into public teaching and coaching and actually at the
ninth grade level. And that's kind of where the broadcasting
thing starts up. Because Tom Hedrick gave me an interesting opportunity,
and I think his budget was really low, so he's
motivated by that. But when nineteen eighty two, when I
was a grad assistant coach for Don Vamborough, he went
(33:27):
to Fambrough and said it would it be okay if
I use David Lawrence as my analyst on Saturdays, and
Vambrough thought it would be great pr to have me.
He certainly knew what I thought of him, and so
I was actually a football coach all week until right
at the kickoff, which they were always at one o'clock
(33:49):
then and I would go in and be a color
analyst with Tom Hedrick. So I got my feet wet
with that. And so when I was a teacher and coach,
I eventually settled into a freshman role because we played
on Thursdays and that would allow for me to work
(34:09):
Kansas football games. I started out with Cable TV, and
then of course was hired on the Jayhawk Network to
be with Bob and Max in the nineties. But it
just kind of allowed me a great life, you know.
I got to be a coach and fulfill that thing
that I enjoyed so much working with kids, and still
(34:31):
got to cover Kansas football on Saturdays. I've been very
blessed to be able to do both. It's kind of
a unique direction. I don't think it's something you grow
up dreaming you're going to coach the ninth grade level,
but it worked out well. I think it's an age
group that you really need a caring adult that knows
(34:54):
about the game, and I'd like to think that I
fulfilled that and had you know, I had some success coaching,
and I got to be a dad and a husband
because I got home at night, but I still got
to cover Kansas. So I just thought that was a
great way to spend my you know, most of my
(35:17):
adult life.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And we'll get into some of the details of that.
But before we move on to that stage of your life,
how'd you meet your wife?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Huh? It's interesting. I met her once in a church
choir in Lawrence, Kansas. I was singing in the church
choir and then didn't see her for about four years.
I'd went away to spend my only one year away
from Lawrence. I was down in out Tuna Midway High
School and came back to get back to Lawrence, and
(35:50):
I met her at a Gammons I think was a disco.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Sure, I met my first wife, we both, we both did.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It's probably the same weekend.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Who knows more of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
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Speaker 2 (37:45):
Our guest is David Lawrence. He is the course color
analyst for Jayhawk football and works on all the pregame shows,
and we'll talk about how he gets involved in basketball
too and has combined broadcasting and teaching. And a man
named Lawrence who's certainly Lawrence. He's a Lawrence iconic figure,
that's to say the least. And you mentioned that, you know,
(38:09):
you almost you quickly developed this thing that would be
your adult life's work of being a teacher and being
a coach and being a broadcaster. That almost would make
the transition away from being a football player a little
more seamless, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
I think? So, you know, again, I didn't always dream
of being a college coach. I think a lot of
people do. I don't know really many coaches that dream
of being a freshman coach. But that's what fit my
lifestyle that hew it worked with being a broadcaster. So yeah,
you just kind of fall into things. You try to
(38:50):
make good decisions and be good to people, and you know,
sometimes that stuff just kind of takes place and good
things happened to you, And certainly good things happened to me.
Although at the time, you know, I wanted to be
the next Don Vambrose. That was that was my dream.
So I mean part of me, you know, thought, wow,
(39:12):
you kind of sold out, you know. But you know,
and I did work for my Godfred a year, and
I appreciate that opportunity. I think that happened a lot
because my younger brother was a highly recruited high school
kid coming out of Parsons, and so I think Mike
(39:34):
Gottfred certainly wanted me to be a part of his
staff as well. And but through meeting my wife and
and just you know that it was just a different staff.
I just didn't have the same feel got married, didn't
really want that lifestyle at that time, and I didn't
(39:54):
want to go to again. Six seven other small colleagues
used to work my way up, like so many people
have done, so it made it an easy choice. The
opportunity presented itself back then, ninth graders were in junior highs,
so it was actually junior highs. I taught health education
(40:15):
for about thirty some years and was the ninth grade
had football coach at South Junior High and then later
when we finally went to the middle school system, I
think we were the last in the state to do that.
It was a natural transfer for me to go to
Freestate High School, where I coached a couple of years
(40:37):
with the Firebirds at the ninth grade level. So stayed
with the ninth grade and it just worked out well.
And you know, someone made an interesting comment that they
found my analysis easy to understand, and I thought, well,
that's probably because I'm a ninth grade football coach and
(40:57):
so I don't get too complicated in my just descriptions.
So maybe that helps me do a delivery that more
people can understand.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
When you're coaching, you get to be the head coach
and you're coaching ninth graders and this is there. You know,
they're they're the oldest people at the school, and you know,
so there's a sort of a graduation feel to it
as well, and you're sending these young men, very young men,
on to play high school football. And Lawrence was a
powerhouse high school football town and during that particular time
(41:32):
for a long time, as a matter of fact, that
must have been kind of cool.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yes it was. And actually had another position or I
was the I was the analyst for the cable network
that covered Lawrence High School, and as you described, when
it was just one school and they were winning every year,
it was a really big deal. And I also did
(41:57):
the cable for KU and we probably had more viewers
in this area watch those Launch Lion football games. So
that was good experience. And yeah, yeah, I mean my
thing in ninth grade is I wanted to be a
great experience for these kids, and because a lot of
(42:18):
them were going to go on and play football and
a lot of them or not, but I wanted them
to have a favorable experience during that year. And you know,
ninth grade, you have some kids that have already peaked
in their development in ninth grade and some haven't even
started yet, so you really don't know for sure who
is going to turn out to be those great players.
(42:40):
So you know, I just wanted it to be a
great thing for all of them and make them feel
good about the year we had. And certainly all boys,
you know, and part of it is to win, So yeah,
winning was important, but there were other things involved in
making them feel like it was a great experience.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
And you mentioned family aspect of it. You would eventually coach.
We stay in coaching, maybe a little a little longer
than you might have because you got to coach your son.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Oh, very good. Yes, that was That was something that
meant a lot to me to to stay there and
to coach Josh, and it was it was a special thing.
It meant a lot to me, and I hope he
enjoyed it and my family, you know, KU meant a
(43:31):
lot to all of my family. There all graduates. I
have stepsons who also went to Kansas, and and of
course my two daughters and Josh both went to Kansas.
And I'd like to think my wife is one of
the biggest Kansas football fans as well. She's she's really
(43:51):
into it. She's actually a class checker for Kansas Athletics
where she'll just go in and monitor that the student
athletes are in their classroom, sometimes get a signature, and
sometimes she ends up getting to know these student athletes
better than I do on a different level. So when
(44:12):
Kansas plays there's just a bunch of Lawrences that are
tuned in and it's a big deal to all of
us and it's something we share.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
You mentioned the jayhawk aspect, and again in doing research,
there's a picture of you. It's sort of it's taken
at a at an event clearly where your daughter was
a Kansas athlete as well.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yeah. Actually, both of my daughters were rowers at the
University of Kansas, so I sometimes joke since they both
ended up on a full scholarship, growing's got to be
my favorite sport, vas right, So yeah, that's been great.
And they were on the same team a couple of years,
(44:57):
but one is older, Diana is older Longos, so they
kind of spend about seven years of following Kansas rowing.
And and my youngest Lindsay Lawrence, was one of the
top ten female student athlete at the University of Kansas
and I got to m see the athletic banquet, So yeah,
(45:21):
that was a special time being able to do that
and proud of both Lindsay and Diana and their careers
of Kansas rowing. And it's a great sport. If anyone
has any long athletic daughters that are looking for an
aspect and toughness is a big thing for them because
you got to be really tough. I would highly recommend rowing,
(45:44):
and they just have tremendous memories. It's it. It was
just a great in all aspects. It's kind of like
a sorority social event. But you know, they actually got
to make money in scholarships doing something that makes them
be very disciplined.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
That's really cool. That is very very cool when you're
going through this process as a broadcaster. Obviously you did
cable television, as you mentioned and talk about the process
of moving to the Jayhawk radio network.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Well, in nineteen ninety three ninety four, Bob Newton, the engineer,
came to me and presented me with this idea of
being a sideline person, sideline reporter. We they hadn't had
one yet. I think that was starting to be part
of what happened around the country and college football, and
(46:41):
I thought it'd be a great thing to do. The
cable television I was doing was fun, but I didn't
travel on the road to those road games, so this
would get me out more and I had to tweak
a little bit what I did on football practice on
Fridays when when the Jayhawks are on the road. But
(47:02):
the opportunity to work with Bob and Max, who Danny
you know very well, was pretty special. I mean, my
early memories of traveling with Bob and Max and Max
was my brid Bay got to hear, of course, all
the stories, but they were so well respected. I don't
know there was a more respected radio team in the country.
(47:23):
And I went to a lot of events in covering
the NCAA Tournament, and that was kind of what I
saw across the board that they were just so respected
in the in the field of sports broadcasting for who
they were, what they did, and just how good they were.
(47:44):
So it was for me, it was what a great
experience and for me to learn the trade.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
When and obviously now a big part of your role
you eventually would become the color commentator, and we'll get
into that in a minute, But what was the process
of becoming such an important aspect of basketball coverage as
well and extensive pregame coverage and you know, I'd see
you every year at the NCAA Tournament and all the
things that you did with you know, dedicated long pre
(48:16):
and post game coverage of the Jayhawks, who obviously became
such an iconic basketball powerhouse.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Again. I'm very fortunate to have this opportunity. I've been
doing it about the basketball players. I think this is
my twenty second year. I had been hosting the Crimson
and Blue Show for Kansas football and our GM. I'm
not sure what property we were then, maybe an ESPN
plus property, And she gave me the opportunity to do basketball,
(48:47):
and you know, I became more comfortable with it. It's
a very different role. You know, you leave the shoes
of an analyst and you've just become a host. So
I don't try to even though I played a lot
of basketball, I don't try to be the expert I
asked the questions. Interviewing our student athletes is just a
(49:10):
lot of fun for me. I just think they're great
and they take the time to come out and talk to me,
and I just really enjoy talking to them. Traditionally, I
maybe different because I like to ask them about their
personal lives and things they enjoyed outside of basketball and
what they did growing up, and just to kind of
(49:31):
give a different angle of our basketball players. But I
do want to bring back a memory that I know
you have, and you're being kind not to bring it up.
I mean, all of this is a learning experience for me.
I was at a journalism major, and I respect all
those that are and learning the trade, but I mean,
I'm just learning through experience, and I'm grateful to have it.
(49:54):
But I remember one year they were basically testing the
waters for me to be a radio analysts for Kansas
to basketball, and they paired me with you and doing
a exhibition game, probably in the nineties somewhere, and it
was it would have been an interesting thing to listen to. Now,
(50:16):
I was like a duck out of water. I'm sure
you can attest to that. Thank you for not bringing
it up. But so you know, it's just a matter
of sticking in there, hanging in there, and being blessed
enough to have the opportunity to try to get better.
But all that stuff just takes experience, right, And I
(50:38):
work hard. And you know, I've listened to Bob and
Max for many, many years and try to get pointers
from from them and people like yourself who were much
more experienced and better at that than I was. And
and I've just learned and learned from some good people
and have enjoyed to do it. And I do work hard.
At it. I don't ever, I don't ever enter into
(51:01):
a football or basketball game, you know, without working hard.
I mean, you know, I talked to Stan Webber all
the time and he does the same. So something that
means a lot to you. You work hard at it.
And I guess that the hard work and good relationships
that have given me the opportunity has helped me despite
(51:24):
the fact that I probably wasn't very good coming out
of colleges doing some of this.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
When you what was the transition like for you going
from the sidelines up to the booth as an analyst.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
You know, it wasn't much my last couple of years
they wanted you know, I mean Max was was was
like another play by play and he had just the
most colorful personality. Uh And and you know I did
probably most of the analysis from the sideline, and so
(52:01):
it was it was literally just changing my broadcast location,
you know, some some things I needed to do in pregame.
But so I don't think that was much of a transition.
At Pukatie, I think was down on the sideline for us,
and so you know, I think that was a pretty
(52:22):
good team and enjoyed the time and I got to
work with the legend Bob Davis, who was just I mean,
he's he's he's he's great. He's a natural and humble
man that was great with Max, and he was patient
with me and helped me. And I remember the when
(52:46):
I first started doing the sideline work. I asked him,
just honestly, Bob, give me some pointers. And he says, David,
it's really not that hard. It's pretty simple. He says,
Number one, you get in and out of breaks on time.
And I said, okay, I can do that. Number two,
honor all your sponsors, So yeah, I can do that.
(53:07):
I can read those those advertisement cards. And this is
number three. Don't say that word. Yes, that word, I
thought at the time, you know, I can do that,
And what a great way to tell me that. So
fast forward. It was literally my second year there, and
(53:29):
one of the reasons probably why I got the job
is one of our greatest coaches in recent years was
certainly Glenn Mason. I mean, he was a tough, minded,
excellent ball coach. Unfortunately, he had the bad timing to
come the same time as Roy Williams and Dill Snyder,
(53:52):
who kind of overshadowed what Mace was doing, but Mace
did great things for Kansas football. And so we're in
and uh, I think my first or second year of
interviewing Mason, I think Max wanted someone else to interview
coach Mason. He can be a grizzly bear.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
So I didn't get along at all.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Yeah, so you know what I'm talking. Yeah, And so anyway,
we're down in Texas Stadium. We've played North Texas and uh,
I'm waiting for Mace to come out. And it's a
long time and I'm I'm not a young kid, but
I'm very new in interviewing head coaches and obviously a
(54:37):
little more anxiety because he can be very difficult and
when he's ready, you know, you better be ready. And
sometimes you didn't understand when you're at you're at a
commercial break, you just can't interview him. Okay, So I
am waiting. I am waiting for Mace to come and
(54:57):
we're in a commercial break and during the commercial break,
you Bob Davis is going through all the numbers. I
can hear him in the previous segment. Mark Williams one
of our one hit wonders. Long story, but we only
got him for one year and probably as the greatest
quarterback ever, certainly Kansas to play. One year he led
(55:19):
us to in a Low Haul Bowl, and Kansas by
the end of that year in ninety five was literally
a top ten team. I don't know what our final
ranking was, but he did everything that day. I mean,
he ran, he passed, He was just amazing. So Mason
comes out and we're at a commercial break, and you
(55:41):
know he's he's getting mad. I can tell, and we've
won the game, but he fin We finally get back
from the commercial and I let them know, and I
come down and I'm nervous, and I've been hearing all
about Mark Williams in my ear and where he had done.
And I see Mason. The first thing out of my mouth.
And this is not a made up story, folks, is well,
(56:05):
coach Williams, what did you think of the game? Oh boy?
And one of the greatest things ever on cue was
Bob Davis in my ear said, of course, Mason. I
can see his fury. He never quite forgave me. I
think he's forgiven me now, but it took a long year,
(56:27):
long time to do that. But Bob Davis said, in
my year, David, remember rule three? So anyway, that's funny,
very very difficult.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah, that's funny. We could talk for hours, but we
have to work towards the conclusion here. You around the
basketball program, which obviously has just been outstanding forever in
the day and been a great part of the broadcast there,
but the football team for quite a long time now,
and obviously you've rent mentioned lancelife Phold a couple of
(57:01):
times here and the hope that that promised that it's
being shown here late in this football season. What is
the challenge for a color announcer when your team is
really bad and Kansas has been really bad for a while.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
That's a great question. And you know, I mean my
number one thing is I love Kansas football. I mean,
it's going back to when I was ten years old,
and I want to be supportive, not just because I
guess as part of my job description, but I love
this team and I want to make it look as
positive as I can. But then again, I mean, there's
(57:42):
been years past where you're kind of on the at
the point where if you're really telling the truth, I mean,
your news that you give is not very good, and
so sometimes you got to select your words very carefully
and it was stressful to be on. It was. It
was very stressful, and it hurt, you know. I mean
(58:04):
it hurt me like it hurt everybody else that was
close to Kansas football. And I admire everyone that stayed
with it. I kind of liken it to uh uh,
someone that has a kid that acts up during junior
high years or whenever and and makes it difficult on
(58:26):
the parents, and you know, you don't quit loving them,
you know, because it's that's they're yours and that's what
you love. With Kansas football, that's it. I never I
don't want to do this for any other team. It
is difficult. We you know, we've we've made mistakes and
(58:48):
hires obviously, and I am so grateful that we have
it right with golf and light bulb. But to answer
your question, it was difficult. It was stressful to to
try to be honest and to try to be positive
because the reality was, for many years there wasn't a
lot of positive to talk about.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Well, there's been a lot of positive in your life,
and I'm sure people have mentioned this before. Do you
since any sense of irony that a man named Lawrence
has made such a great home in Lawrence Kansas.
Speaker 3 (59:24):
Well, I know that I'm very blessed to have been
a part of it for so long. It's a great
place to raise a family. I am in the history
of amous Lawrence. I tried to find some connection in
our family name, but that was unsuccessful, so it is
no distant relation. But it's just been great to live here.
(59:47):
It's a great town, great place to raise a family,
and again, so fortunate to be a part of Kansas Athletics.
I do call the women's games for home games November.
Is very busy about five games a week, and which
was very difficult back when I was a teacher to
(01:00:08):
do that and to do the five games a week,
but now it's much more manageable. I mean, Bill self
is just a He's just a champion in so many ways,
treating people well. And how lucky am I to be
a former football player out there being a part of
(01:00:30):
men's basketball broadcasts and being a part of all these championships.
So it's just been great to work with Coach self.
I started with Coach Williams, but it's been nineteen under
Bill self and he's the best in a lot of ways.
And now that football is in a great direction, thanks
(01:00:52):
to Travis Golf and Landslipool. You know, I think at
some point in time that granted very early. But you know,
Bill Snyder was given credit to have the greatest turnaround
of the century, and you know a lot of that's
because of just how low the bar was. Well our
bar is pretty low too, and you know, we're just
(01:01:15):
on a kind of a two game run where we've
been really, really competitive and much much better. But you know,
I think we're going to you know, my hope is
that we'll be saying some similar things about why I
pulled in ten to fifteen years when he establishes this program,
because I do I do feel it's going to happen
and it'll be very welcomed. So I'm looking forward to
(01:01:39):
hanging in there as long as I can. Danny, I
think we're about the same age, so you know, it's
always more difficult as we get older, but it should
be exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
It should be exciting, and it's been an exciting ride
for you family, this town, ku football. Your impact as
a player and a broadcaster and a coach and a
molder of young people. You must be yeah, and you
mentioned you want to hang in there and keep fit rolling,
but you must be awfully satisfied with how life has
turned out for you.
Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that, and particularly all the
research to find out some things that's quite frankly, I
didn't know anyone really knew anymore. But things have gone well. Certainly,
I've been through tough times like everyone else, but we've all,
you know, we just hang in there and try to
get better and get better at what we do and
(01:02:33):
be thankful and treat people right. And it's allowed me
to continue on. So yeah, I do hope to continue
as long as I can, but we'll be a fan
after that ending time happens. And thanks so much for
having me on. It was just really cool to be
(01:02:53):
on with you, so when I've known for many years,
and particularly all the research that you went to find
out about the last forty years. So that's a long
time to cover.
Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
This podcast was made possible by our great sponsors like
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Welcome to the Danny Clinkscale Reasonably irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten path.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Kansas City Profiles presented by Easton Roofing. And
it's great time to catch up with David Lawrence, the
football analyst on the Jayhawk Network, among his many duties
there and of course Kansas player educator coach through the years,
and still keeps very very busy with a whole variety
of different things. David, glad to have you look forward
(00:37):
to this little chat and tell us what you're up
to these days in addition to your duties with the
Jayhawk Radio Network.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Danny's great to be on with you. My first and
foremost duty is a grandfather. I've got seven granddaughters and
a grandson and that's the biggest part of my life.
But aside from that, I still cover Kansas football, men's
and women's basketball. So getting braced and ready to go
(01:06):
for November, which, as you know, the Crossoverseason keeps us
really busy, So looking forward to that and obviously Saturday's Dylan.
Speaker 2 (01:19):
Some for our showdown well as well. Here during our
conversation we had a couple of years back. That's coming up.
There are many many fun tales about your time with
coach fam and his rivalry stories with the University of Missouri,
But during your time as a player, what was the
rivalry like with the Cats.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
Well, obviously a different a different age, right, Kansas State
struggled for you know, seventy eighty years before hiring Bill
Snyder to maybe the biggest turnaround in the history of
college football. So there was an expectation, you know, that
you took care of business in state, not just once
(02:04):
in a while, but every year. That was kind of
what you were charged with. And then you know, with
Missouri it kind of went back and forth, kind of
a fifty to fifty thing. But yeah, coach Fambrough, he
saved all of his excitement for for the Missouri Tigers,
didn't get quite as crazy for Kansas State. But again,
(02:26):
that was a different time. What Bill Snyder has done
has just turned this thing around, and the Jayhawks under
Lance Lightehold are set out to hold their own against
a good football program in Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah, and obviously Kansas had some success under coach Mangino
during that span of time, but it's been a long
time since there's been success. The games have been much
much closer and competitive the last couple of years under
coach Lighthold, and Saturday seems to be in that category.
In Kansas for the first time in a long time
is favored. The Jayhawks have not had the kind of
(03:04):
season that they have wanted so far. In fact, probably
neither has Kansas State, and this game is as important
for each team.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
It would seem.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Avoiding losing as it is winning, because the season would
be kind of in peril for either team with a loss.
Speaker 3 (03:20):
Yeah, the last two years certainly wonnerful games for the Jayhawks,
and you know, obviously you have to go out and
do something about it, and getting close is not good enough.
I think this Kansas team is talented. They've proven so.
They've had a couple of close disappointments to good teams,
(03:42):
and you know, I think there's so much parody in
the Big Twelve Conference. Now there's an opportunity to go
out for either one of these teams and finish really
strong and accomplishing a lot of goals in their season
with the game's remaining. So that's what Kansas has set
out to do on Saturday. You know, the records, you
(04:08):
kind of throw those out. But Kansas State, it doesn't
take a football coach to understand that this is a
They were never a team that was bad. I mean,
they were just having some bad breaks. We can relate
to that certainly last year with what we went through
the first half of the season, and they certainly righted
(04:30):
the ship in a lot of ways the last couple
of weeks, and the Jayhawks will take on, you know,
a good football team, which we knew all along.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It hasn't been the strength of Kansas State running the football,
but Kansas has struggled to stop the run. That has
to be one of the keys that was stressed during
the bye week and obviously on Saturday. That starts the process.
Football coaches always talk about that that's stopping the run
is job one, and it should be for Kansas, right.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Yeah. I think the thing I would say about the
Kansas defense is just inconsistent. I just could go up
and down the lineup and point out a lot of
good football players throughout, but on given days they have
struggled in stopping the run and have given up some
(05:20):
long runs to Texas Tech, to Missouri, and a little
bit to Cincinnati in between. There. It's a team that
is a good job of applying pressure, getting tackles for
loss and sacks, and some good coverages as well, but
(05:40):
it will need to be the latter and not the
former to be successful against the Kansas State run, which
has kind of reinvented itself with Joe Jackson and one
of the most athletic quarterbacks in the country and Avery Johnson.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Let's talk a little bit about the atmosphere. Obviously it's
still a work in progress but partly leaded, and so
Kansas will be taking on Kansas State and to quote
unquote new stadium on Saturday. What's that been like for
you then looking around and seeing the excitement and seeing
the growth.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
It's fantastic, you know, it's just beautiful, state of the art. Yeah,
we look forward to getting it done, but seventy percent
of it is there and we're just enjoying the new amenities.
A great place to watch college football. The technology is
all updated and it gets you closer to the action
(06:33):
on the field, and that's something that all the stadiums
built with a track, particularly previous to nineteen fifty, you know,
had there was a little setback and you're not on
top of the action like the new stadiums are. So
we're enjoying just everything about the new David Booth Kansas
(06:54):
Memorial Stadium. And you know, I've always said best setting
for college football right there at the base of the
campany Lea Hill and just a great atmosphere which will
abound on Saturday.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Well, it should be a great call and great fun.
And I wish you all good fun with the grandkids
and keeping busy in that regard. And we'll be listening
on Saturday with a great call at eleven am on
the Jayhawk Network.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
We look forward to it. It should be a great game
and I'm glad all the fans can get out there
rain or our sun. We don't know what to expect,
but that game happen.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
David Lawrence joining us, so you can hear him Saturday
on the Jayhawk Network. It starts at nine point thirty
with the pregame show, and coming up next, we'll revisit
our wonderful conversation from a few years back, detailing some
of those coach fam stories and David growing up in
Lawrence and becoming a Jayhawk. All that up next on
Kansas City Profiles presented by Eastern Roofing.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Hey Kansas City, Joe Spiker, Eastern Roofing Year.
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(08:28):
be real nice.
Speaker 6 (08:29):
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and valleys over the years. The peaks are great and
even the valleys can provide opportunities for you as an investor. However,
the closer we get to retirement, the more challenging these
market swings can become. This is zach Ridemyer. I would
like to get to know you and your goals for
the future. I offer financial planning services across the United States,
(08:52):
focusing mainly on Kansas and the Missouri area. I look
forward to meeting with you, face to face with the
highs and lows throughout the financial landscape. My goal is
to make sure you feel protected once you've set your
retirement date. Growing up in a tight knit community, I
understand the importance of knowing you can rely on someone
to have your back. I'm always a phone call away
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(09:14):
you're getting the most out of your retirement. Give me
a call today at Strategic Partners Incorporated. Ask for Zach
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Speaker 2 (09:31):
Securities and advisory services offered through LPL Financial, a Registered
Investment Advisor member FINRA SIPC. We're here at the twenty
third Street Brewery with Matt Llewellen all the time. There's
exciting things going on, New Water feature, new beers, and
this fall football is back in Lawrence and that's cool.
Speaker 7 (09:50):
Football back in Lawrence. Can you imagine that we actually
had to endure a year without it?
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Well, it is back.
Speaker 7 (09:56):
It's back on campus. We're so happy that they're here,
just like years pas. We offer a free shuttle coming
from the twenty third Tree Brewery an hour and a
half before game time. We partner with the Boys and
Girls Club to do that, so it's helping a good
cause also, so come in to the brewery early before
the game. Free shuttle to and from the football game.
We love to have you out here, excited to have
(10:16):
the Jayhawks back in town where they belong.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Great food, great beers, great fun during football season at
the twenty third Street Brewery twenty third and Castle in Lawrence.
If you'd like to join these and other fine sponsors
and market your business to Kansas City's number one variety podcast,
contact us at Danny at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look
forward to working with you. Welcome back, and David, you
(10:39):
are a native of Parsons, Kansas and grew up there,
went to high school there. But first off, when we start,
almost at the beginning, what was it like being a
little boy in Parsons, Kansas? And tell us about Parsons.
Speaker 3 (10:53):
Well, Parsons was a great place to grow up. Like
many small towns in Kansas, it was kind of controlled
by the railroad, you know, as that fizzled out, towns
like that across the state. As I've kind of struggled,
but it's still there. It's still a great place to
call home. And I was a three sport person in
Parsons and about the age of ten, my dad took
(11:17):
my brother and myself in September of nineteen sixty eight.
I remember it like it was yesterday, and we went
to Lawrence, Kansas, and I walked up the Campanely Hill,
biggest hill I'd ever seen before in my life, and
looked down over into the stadium and had all the flags.
(11:39):
It had rained that September, so it was so green,
and Kansas football was playing in nineteen sixty eight. It
was the Orange Bowl team, and I think right there
is when I definitely said to myself, that's what I
want to do. I would just love to do that.
It was a great team to follow. And then, you know,
(12:01):
years after that, I went to about one game a year,
and then finally as a senior in high school, I
had that realized when they offered me a scholarship.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
Tell me about your dad, your mom, and you're growing up.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
Well, my dad was a printer and my mom was
a teacher, and she was a big singer that sang
in all the all the social events around town, and
she actually got me involved in that in high school
at least that was really big to her. And my
family was a tennis family. Actually I played a lot
(12:37):
of tennis in high school. My mom was a city champ,
my brother's city champ, sister city champ, and wow, so
I got involved a little bit of that. On the weekends,
we went boating at a place called Grand Lake, which
was a lot of fun.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
That's cool. So did you have you had two siblings?
Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I had three siblings. Yeah. They were two brothers, both
football players, and my sister a tennis player. And two
of them still live in Parsons, So that gives me
reason to go back down there and see them.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
Said you were a three sport guy, and you know
that plus tennis, I would imagine. So when did you
what was your favorite when you were growing up and
when did you see that you had a little aptitude
in sports?
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Well, you know, I probably played tennis earlier, in basketball
for the most part. You know, football you couldn't play
until about eighth grade. Didn't really get much heighth and
develop until I was a little bit later. But I
really enjoyed all three sports. It probably wasn't until my
(13:44):
junior senior year that I realized I would have perhaps
a better opportunity to play football, and that probably was
my first love ever since I went to that Kansas
football game and didn't really realize until late junior year
or early senior year that you know, I was someone
(14:08):
to be recruited at a large scale and I would
actually have that opportunity to play at Kansas. It was
kind of a pipe dream up up until that senior
year when I, you know, grew another two inches, So
that was really fulfilling to have that dream and having
it fulfilled your senior year.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Were you always alignment or because you were smaller, did
you play other positions?
Speaker 3 (14:30):
First, you know, I was a tight end and in
high school actually recruited as a tight end to Kansas,
even though it was the wishbone offense. So that was
a little hard pill to swallow. My third year there,
under Don Fambrough, who would later become my mentor and
(14:51):
a father figure, that staff moved me at offensive guard,
and I thought that the world had come to an end.
It was kind of difficult to give up catching the ball.
It was something I enjoyed doing, but just pure speed
was something that you needed more of. I needed more
of to continue to play tight end, and certainly my
(15:14):
ceiling was a lot higher at offensive guard, so a
little reluctantly I made the switch over to guard my
sophomore year and ended up having some success at those positions,
But certainly my my biggest love was catching the football
as a tied end.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
Well, you had that dream of going to Kansas, and
you love the university and you love the setting and
everything else, and you were recruited and it was a
great dream. But you I think reading some accounts that
you weren't all that thrilled with the staff that actually
ended up recruiting you. Is that correct? Or at least
the head coach.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
I mean yes, I mean but more and the wishbone.
He was a Bear Bryant disciple. He was probably the
last coach in Division IE in the country, that's my guess,
that still denied water to create more toughness in his
(16:17):
student athletes. And he did three a day practices through
up until school started. And of course you and I
were classmates, and you remember some of those hot August
So yeah, you put that together, being denied water and
three a days and it certainly gave us a lot
of toughness, didn't have quite the personality of Don Fambrough
(16:39):
or the love of Kansas. I would realize that after
Bud Moore was fired, to get to meet Don Fambreau,
and of course he had already been the head coach previously,
and in kind of an awkward situation, all the players
that I met when I started in nineteen seventy seven
(17:00):
Evan would tell stories of a true coach that they loved,
and Don Fambrough, so I knew a lot about him
even before he arrived and found in him just as
good as advertised when he took back over the program
in nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
That's a weird dynamic. How did that? I don't know
if you even know that you know the details of it.
But for got to be the coach and then another
guy comes in as the coach, and actually Bud Moore
had a little bit of success early on especially, and
then to bring back the other coach so quickly, you
know that, that's kind of strange. How did that? How
(17:40):
did that go? How did it happen?
Speaker 3 (17:42):
I think the new athletics director realized that the success
that Bud Moore had was really because of the recruitment
of Don Fambrough. He just had a very creative way,
I mean and simply just love Kansas, and I think
that came out in his recruit And you know, he
was the head coach two different times for four years
(18:05):
a piece, but he was an assistant coach for twenty years,
and even as an assistant coach, you know, was probably
responsible for dozens of future NFL players and great players
in college football. And of course Fambro even gave the
famous Missouri talk for probably three decades after he was
(18:28):
fired in nineteen eighty two. So Fambro just loved this
place and that was that was appealing to me, and
that's what really drew me to want to be a coach,
a coach under him, and that was something that became
my goal after really getting to know Don Vambro.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
But you did have success as a player, and the
team also had a pretty good amount of success while
you were there. People you know, think of Kansas through
the years generally as a struggling football program, they have
certainly had patches where it has been good. And your
time at Kansas the team was pretty darn successful.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Yes, we were and you know when Vambroa took back over,
there was kind of a rejuvenation of just lots of
energy and Vambro is the one that brought that. He
also brought not a good but a great coaching staff
with him. I think after the Fambro staff was fired,
(19:29):
seventy percent of and went on to the NFL. So
just quality people. Fam had the ability to do that,
and we did have that success. That was a lot
of fun, you know, And that's something that Leiphold is
talking about. It's great to come into a program, you know,
like Nebraska or Oklahoma back then that had all that success,
but you could argue it's even more special when you
(19:53):
come in and you work your way up. And there
was a year we were one in ten and then
you know, three and eight, and then five, five and one,
and you know, on to be eight and three and
beat Missouri in your last game and that was special.
And go to a bowl game, albeit just the Bowl
in Birmingham, which was about forty degrees and cloudy, but
(20:17):
you know, we didn't care. It was it was something
that we'd worked for and really wanted to be a
part of a bowl game, and it was great to
do it for Fambrough. He was just a popular guy
amongst his players. And you're right, the sixties and seventies,
you could turn on the television and the NFL and
you would just see a number of Jayhawks in the NFL.
(20:40):
I mean people like Riggins and of course Haydel earlier
and Bobby Douglas and John Zook and the list just
goes on and on of players. So yeah, we were
well represented. And you know the thing I kid at
Vambro about he could have been a little better a
coach if he didn't play the who's who of college
foot ball in the three actually back then it was
(21:03):
the four non conference games. Traditionally we would start out
with top twenty teams, you know, playing like Tennessee, Florida State, Miami.
I mean, the list goes on and on. They're just
And I asked Pamber, why would you do that because
you're not going to be able to have a good record,
And he thought it just wasn't it didn't do justice
(21:26):
to our university to play schools that, you know, were
the directional schools. He just thought that it just was
what the University of Kansas deserves to play. Other top universities,
and that's what he believed in. That's what he did.
And I think you know Ted Owens did the same
thing in basketball, and you know that made the records
(21:49):
for Ted probably a little bit more difficult. But that's
just not something you did back in the nineteen seventies.
Has pad your schedule with the games that you had
a high percentage chance of winning, So that really prevented
the good records. But there was there was a lot
of teams there, had they scheduled differently, could have had
(22:11):
winning records. And of course back then, you know, it
was the resulting just a scattering of the right big
bowl games you didn't you didn't have at six and
six or five and five and one, you did, you
didn't go to a bowl. I mean, you had to
be eighty three, and it was a lot bit more difficult.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
Tell me about some of the guys on the eighty
one team and that team that really was a progression
through your time there from you know, under coach vanbrou
from three and eight to four, five and two, and
then eight and four, eight and three in the regular
season obviously, and we'll get to a cool story about
the game against Missouri here in a minute, but take
some folks down memory lane and talk about some of
(22:51):
your teammates and the kind of team that you had.
Speaker 3 (22:54):
Well, we had one of the best linebackers I think
in Kansas history, guy by the name of Kyle mc norton, actually,
you know, made a roster two consecutive years, but got
hurt in the last game of the preseason and didn't
get that opportunity. Frank Sire was a quarterback that actually
(23:18):
made the Chiefs one year and had a little NFL success.
We had a tremendous defense. You know, Greg Smith was
a nose guard. He was an excellent, excellent defensive lineman.
Tom Battle was a defensive line, defensive coordinator and he
just did a great job and later coached in the NFL.
(23:40):
Ken Stevenson was the offensive line coach. He had a
great career with the Pittsburgh Steelers. You know, Wayne Caper's
David Burser were two very good wide receivers for Kansas
back then. And then we were excellent in special teams.
Bucky Scribner, who we have since lost, was one, if
(24:03):
not the best punter in the league. And Bruce Kalmyer
an all American kicker. So we just did a great
job with you know, that third of the game that
a lot of times gets ignored in today's times, and
very good defense, and we didn't turn the ball over,
(24:23):
so we played smart football. There's other teams that probably
have more talent, but I think we were well coached.
I had great special teams, and we really wanted to win.
I mean it was a big deal to us.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Both you and Missouri had good seasons heading into the
game that was always played at the end of the
season then and for a long time, and you thought
initially going in that the game was going to be
basically a head to head for a ball bid, and
then maybe you found out that that wasn't the case.
Speaker 6 (24:58):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
I applaud your research, Danny. Not too many people know
about that Missouri had a top four defense in the country.
I mean, they were really, really good. We were told
the Tangerine Bowl was going to take the winner of
the Kansas Missouri game. Missouri was ranked, you know, just
(25:21):
outside of the top ten. I'm sure favored. I don't
really remember the points spread of what it was. And
then Monday of that week, Fambro came in and gave
us the news that the Tangerine Bull worked a kind
of a backdoor deal with the Tigers, and and of
course that's all Fambro needed, you know, to no one,
(25:45):
no one could could ever get a team more up
to playing arrival than Don Vambrou. And of course he's
famous for telling me quote Missouri story, but he really
used that the deal that Missouri made with the Tangerine Bull,
and I mean that game was probably decided there. He
(26:05):
had us so fired up and ready, and who knows
how much of it was the truth. He never let
that getting away of a good story. But our defense,
special teams, they scored a late touchdown, but it was
really nineteen to three until the very end, it ended
up being nineteen to eleven. And you know, what a
(26:25):
great way to go out to going against Missouri, and
there was nothing like that. I mean, there was just
something special about that rivalry which is different than even
other top rivalries that people talk about in college football.
And it's because of the grassroots of where it started.
And we were so fired up and there's just no
(26:49):
way that we were going to lose that day to Missouri.
And that's just a great memory to have with their friends,
you know when you see them following that all these years,
and it'll be always a special memory. But a great
job of motivation by Fambrough and getting us ready to play.
And you know, Missouri was a great team. They were
(27:12):
certainly a great team that year. They had a lot
of those great teams, and it says a lot about,
you know, how motivated Kansas was to play Missouri every year,
the fact that we were almost even for the all
time series. As Ambrose always said, they had the best,
you know, recruiting ability in the country, being a state
(27:35):
that large and not really sharing it with anyone, and
of course Kansas sharing a smaller state with Kansas State,
but we managed to get pretty fired up from Missouri
every year. And I know that they did the same
for the Jayhawks.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
You were a team captain on that team, and if
my research is right, you were the offensive player of
the year as a guard. Is that correct?
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah? Did you talk to my mom before this? I do?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
It is my job to do research for this.
Speaker 3 (28:08):
Well, I mean you got to dig hard for some
of this stuff. In nineteen eighty one, Yeah, I was
very flattered that I.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
Was picked as it's pretty cool.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Outstanding offensive player. John Hadel was our coordinator, and you know,
I was injured that year and it was a secondary
tear in the medial collateral need ligament. Back then, they
would operate immediately on that. I got that news in
the third game, and you know, I thought it was
(28:39):
just the worst thing in the world. And then a
doctor by the name of Mike McCoy who actually still
practices in Topeka. He was a former offensive lineman for Kansas,
and he contacted our athletic trainer and he's said, you know,
there's a new way to treat these secondary tears. And
basically he did what they do today, and that's nothing.
(29:03):
You immobilize them and keep your muscles strong around there.
And it was surrounded by an off weeks. Only missed
two games. Wow, And Fambrough made a big deal of that,
bigger than probably it was. And so yeah, that was
that was a nice thing to do. And there was
a lot of great players on that team. But I
(29:26):
was fortunate to be a part of it and to
be named captain, and we only had two captains back then,
and that was voted on by the team and certainly
that was a big honor for me.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
Tell me about what life was like away from football
at KU during your time there in the late seventies
and early eighties, you.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
Could probably share that answer with me.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Danny, Well, you played football. I didn't have to play football,
so I get more trouble.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
Well, we were very busy during the year, and it
seemed like any time that was really nice out were
you know, the girls would be around the ball. We
were always in spring football or ball football, because you know,
spring ball went a lot longer back then. But we
did the best we could in the winter time to
make up and record with our funds. And there is
(30:18):
a lot of drinking establishments downtown and yeah, we we
we made up for that in the winter time. We
kind of stuck to business during the football season. And
and but but it was it was a good time
to be at Jayhawk. And and I've always been a
big KU basketball fan. But what was kind of interesting
(30:38):
about that time, and you'll remember this, there was actually
a couple of years there in nineteen eighty eighty one
that that that football was kind of as big a
deal as basketball was. And I guess that that made
you feel pretty good. The fact that the students and
fans of Jayhawk fans were you know, were equally interested
(31:01):
in football, and you know, certainly something that we hope
we can get going with Lancelipol, but not that you know,
people have to choose one or the other. But it's
great when you know, when you're a football school and
a basketball school. So that was that was fun to
know that, you know, you were viewed equal to basketball.
Speaker 2 (31:25):
Well, you would eventually become a high school coach and
teach high school. What was your academic thoughts as you
were also playing football and having a good time?
Speaker 3 (31:37):
You know, I was a physical education major. My goal
was to be a college football coach and actually had
a Vambro came to me as a when I was
a grad assistant and said, well, you know, you do
this for a couple of years and I'm going to
make you a full time assistant. And it was really
(32:00):
because of that message that's why I decided not to
go to the combine or I ended up signing a
free agent with the Dallas Cowboys. But they found some
damage of my neck due to a lot of stingers,
and that news was enough and a very low salary
of I think thirty nine thousand for the first year,
(32:21):
and it made me decide, you know what, I want
to be a college coach under Don pambro and so
I liketed to do that and a little naive to
the how college football was as Fambrough went from coach
of the Year in nineteen eighty one to being fired
in nineteen eighty two, so you know, the best late
(32:44):
plans you just kind of tear me right. And I
met my wife Linda and decided that I don't want
to travel around the country to be to follow the
coaching field in college. I want to just put my
roots here in Lawrence, Kansas, And so I decided to
(33:05):
go into public teaching and coaching and actually at the
ninth grade level. And that's kind of where the broadcasting
thing starts up. Because Tom Hedrick gave me an interesting opportunity,
and I think his budget was really low, so he's
motivated by that. But when nineteen eighty two, when I
was a grad assistant coach for Don Vamborough, he went
(33:27):
to Fambrough and said it would it be okay if
I use David Lawrence as my analyst on Saturdays, and
Vambrough thought it would be great pr to have me.
He certainly knew what I thought of him, and so
I was actually a football coach all week until right
at the kickoff, which they were always at one o'clock
(33:49):
then and I would go in and be a color
analyst with Tom Hedrick. So I got my feet wet
with that. And so when I was a teacher and coach,
I eventually settled into a freshman role because we played
on Thursdays and that would allow for me to work
(34:09):
Kansas football games. I started out with Cable TV, and
then of course was hired on the Jayhawk Network to
be with Bob and Max in the nineties. But it
just kind of allowed me a great life, you know.
I got to be a coach and fulfill that thing
that I enjoyed so much working with kids, and still
(34:31):
got to cover Kansas football on Saturdays. I've been very
blessed to be able to do both. It's kind of
a unique direction. I don't think it's something you grow
up dreaming you're going to coach the ninth grade level,
but it worked out well. I think it's an age
group that you really need a caring adult that knows
(34:54):
about the game, and I'd like to think that I
fulfilled that and had you know, I had some success coaching,
and I got to be a dad and a husband
because I got home at night, but I still got
to cover Kansas. So I just thought that was a
great way to spend my you know, most of my
(35:17):
adult life.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
And we'll get into some of the details of that.
But before we move on to that stage of your life,
how'd you meet your wife?
Speaker 3 (35:26):
Huh? It's interesting. I met her once in a church
choir in Lawrence, Kansas. I was singing in the church
choir and then didn't see her for about four years.
I'd went away to spend my only one year away
from Lawrence. I was down in out Tuna Midway High
School and came back to get back to Lawrence, and
(35:50):
I met her at a Gammons I think was a disco.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
Sure, I met my first wife, we both, we both did.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It's probably the same weekend.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Who knows more of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
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Speaker 2 (37:45):
Our guest is David Lawrence. He is the course color
analyst for Jayhawk football and works on all the pregame shows,
and we'll talk about how he gets involved in basketball
too and has combined broadcasting and teaching. And a man
named Lawrence who's certainly Lawrence. He's a Lawrence iconic figure,
that's to say the least. And you mentioned that, you know,
(38:09):
you almost you quickly developed this thing that would be
your adult life's work of being a teacher and being
a coach and being a broadcaster. That almost would make
the transition away from being a football player a little
more seamless, wouldn't it.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
I think? So, you know, again, I didn't always dream
of being a college coach. I think a lot of
people do. I don't know really many coaches that dream
of being a freshman coach. But that's what fit my
lifestyle that hew it worked with being a broadcaster. So yeah,
you just kind of fall into things. You try to
(38:50):
make good decisions and be good to people, and you know,
sometimes that stuff just kind of takes place and good
things happened to you, And certainly good things happened to me.
Although at the time, you know, I wanted to be
the next Don Vambrose. That was that was my dream.
So I mean part of me, you know, thought, wow,
(39:12):
you kind of sold out, you know. But you know,
and I did work for my Godfred a year, and
I appreciate that opportunity. I think that happened a lot
because my younger brother was a highly recruited high school
kid coming out of Parsons, and so I think Mike
(39:34):
Gottfred certainly wanted me to be a part of his
staff as well. And but through meeting my wife and
and just you know that it was just a different staff.
I just didn't have the same feel got married, didn't
really want that lifestyle at that time, and I didn't
(39:54):
want to go to again. Six seven other small colleagues
used to work my way up, like so many people
have done, so it made it an easy choice. The
opportunity presented itself back then, ninth graders were in junior highs,
so it was actually junior highs. I taught health education
(40:15):
for about thirty some years and was the ninth grade
had football coach at South Junior High and then later
when we finally went to the middle school system, I
think we were the last in the state to do that.
It was a natural transfer for me to go to
Freestate High School, where I coached a couple of years
(40:37):
with the Firebirds at the ninth grade level. So stayed
with the ninth grade and it just worked out well.
And you know, someone made an interesting comment that they
found my analysis easy to understand, and I thought, well,
that's probably because I'm a ninth grade football coach and
(40:57):
so I don't get too complicated in my just descriptions.
So maybe that helps me do a delivery that more
people can understand.
Speaker 2 (41:08):
When you're coaching, you get to be the head coach
and you're coaching ninth graders and this is there. You know,
they're they're the oldest people at the school, and you know,
so there's a sort of a graduation feel to it
as well, and you're sending these young men, very young men,
on to play high school football. And Lawrence was a
powerhouse high school football town and during that particular time
(41:32):
for a long time, as a matter of fact, that
must have been kind of cool.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
Yes it was. And actually had another position or I
was the I was the analyst for the cable network
that covered Lawrence High School, and as you described, when
it was just one school and they were winning every year,
it was a really big deal. And I also did
(41:57):
the cable for KU and we probably had more viewers
in this area watch those Launch Lion football games. So
that was good experience. And yeah, yeah, I mean my
thing in ninth grade is I wanted to be a
great experience for these kids, and because a lot of
(42:18):
them were going to go on and play football and
a lot of them or not, but I wanted them
to have a favorable experience during that year. And you know,
ninth grade, you have some kids that have already peaked
in their development in ninth grade and some haven't even
started yet, so you really don't know for sure who
is going to turn out to be those great players.
(42:40):
So you know, I just wanted it to be a
great thing for all of them and make them feel
good about the year we had. And certainly all boys,
you know, and part of it is to win, So yeah,
winning was important, but there were other things involved in
making them feel like it was a great experience.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
And you mentioned family aspect of it. You would eventually coach.
We stay in coaching, maybe a little a little longer
than you might have because you got to coach your son.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Oh, very good. Yes, that was That was something that
meant a lot to me to to stay there and
to coach Josh, and it was it was a special thing.
It meant a lot to me, and I hope he
enjoyed it and my family, you know, KU meant a
(43:31):
lot to all of my family. There all graduates. I
have stepsons who also went to Kansas, and and of
course my two daughters and Josh both went to Kansas.
And I'd like to think my wife is one of
the biggest Kansas football fans as well. She's she's really
(43:51):
into it. She's actually a class checker for Kansas Athletics
where she'll just go in and monitor that the student
athletes are in their classroom, sometimes get a signature, and
sometimes she ends up getting to know these student athletes
better than I do on a different level. So when
(44:12):
Kansas plays there's just a bunch of Lawrences that are
tuned in and it's a big deal to all of
us and it's something we share.
Speaker 2 (44:21):
You mentioned the jayhawk aspect, and again in doing research,
there's a picture of you. It's sort of it's taken
at a at an event clearly where your daughter was
a Kansas athlete as well.
Speaker 3 (44:35):
Yeah. Actually, both of my daughters were rowers at the
University of Kansas, so I sometimes joke since they both
ended up on a full scholarship, growing's got to be
my favorite sport, vas right, So yeah, that's been great.
And they were on the same team a couple of years,
(44:57):
but one is older, Diana is older Longos, so they
kind of spend about seven years of following Kansas rowing.
And and my youngest Lindsay Lawrence, was one of the
top ten female student athlete at the University of Kansas
and I got to m see the athletic banquet, So yeah,
(45:21):
that was a special time being able to do that
and proud of both Lindsay and Diana and their careers
of Kansas rowing. And it's a great sport. If anyone
has any long athletic daughters that are looking for an
aspect and toughness is a big thing for them because
you got to be really tough. I would highly recommend rowing,
(45:44):
and they just have tremendous memories. It's it. It was
just a great in all aspects. It's kind of like
a sorority social event. But you know, they actually got
to make money in scholarships doing something that makes them
be very disciplined.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
That's really cool. That is very very cool when you're
going through this process as a broadcaster. Obviously you did
cable television, as you mentioned and talk about the process
of moving to the Jayhawk radio network.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Well, in nineteen ninety three ninety four, Bob Newton, the engineer,
came to me and presented me with this idea of
being a sideline person, sideline reporter. We they hadn't had
one yet. I think that was starting to be part
of what happened around the country and college football, and
(46:41):
I thought it'd be a great thing to do. The
cable television I was doing was fun, but I didn't
travel on the road to those road games, so this
would get me out more and I had to tweak
a little bit what I did on football practice on
Fridays when when the Jayhawks are on the road. But
(47:02):
the opportunity to work with Bob and Max, who Danny
you know very well, was pretty special. I mean, my
early memories of traveling with Bob and Max and Max
was my brid Bay got to hear, of course, all
the stories, but they were so well respected. I don't
know there was a more respected radio team in the country.
(47:23):
And I went to a lot of events in covering
the NCAA Tournament, and that was kind of what I
saw across the board that they were just so respected
in the in the field of sports broadcasting for who
they were, what they did, and just how good they were.
(47:44):
So it was for me, it was what a great
experience and for me to learn the trade.
Speaker 2 (47:52):
When and obviously now a big part of your role
you eventually would become the color commentator, and we'll get
into that in a minute, But what was the process
of becoming such an important aspect of basketball coverage as
well and extensive pregame coverage and you know, I'd see
you every year at the NCAA Tournament and all the
things that you did with you know, dedicated long pre
(48:16):
and post game coverage of the Jayhawks, who obviously became
such an iconic basketball powerhouse.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Again. I'm very fortunate to have this opportunity. I've been
doing it about the basketball players. I think this is
my twenty second year. I had been hosting the Crimson
and Blue Show for Kansas football and our GM. I'm
not sure what property we were then, maybe an ESPN
plus property, And she gave me the opportunity to do basketball,
(48:47):
and you know, I became more comfortable with it. It's
a very different role. You know, you leave the shoes
of an analyst and you've just become a host. So
I don't try to even though I played a lot
of basketball, I don't try to be the expert I
asked the questions. Interviewing our student athletes is just a
(49:10):
lot of fun for me. I just think they're great
and they take the time to come out and talk to me,
and I just really enjoy talking to them. Traditionally, I
maybe different because I like to ask them about their
personal lives and things they enjoyed outside of basketball and
what they did growing up, and just to kind of
(49:31):
give a different angle of our basketball players. But I
do want to bring back a memory that I know
you have, and you're being kind not to bring it up.
I mean, all of this is a learning experience for me.
I was at a journalism major, and I respect all
those that are and learning the trade, but I mean,
I'm just learning through experience, and I'm grateful to have it.
(49:54):
But I remember one year they were basically testing the
waters for me to be a radio analysts for Kansas
to basketball, and they paired me with you and doing
a exhibition game, probably in the nineties somewhere, and it
was it would have been an interesting thing to listen to. Now,
(50:16):
I was like a duck out of water. I'm sure
you can attest to that. Thank you for not bringing
it up. But so you know, it's just a matter
of sticking in there, hanging in there, and being blessed
enough to have the opportunity to try to get better.
But all that stuff just takes experience, right, And I
(50:38):
work hard. And you know, I've listened to Bob and
Max for many, many years and try to get pointers
from from them and people like yourself who were much
more experienced and better at that than I was. And
and I've just learned and learned from some good people
and have enjoyed to do it. And I do work hard.
At it. I don't ever, I don't ever enter into
(51:01):
a football or basketball game, you know, without working hard.
I mean, you know, I talked to Stan Webber all
the time and he does the same. So something that
means a lot to you. You work hard at it.
And I guess that the hard work and good relationships
that have given me the opportunity has helped me despite
(51:24):
the fact that I probably wasn't very good coming out
of colleges doing some of this.
Speaker 2 (51:30):
When you what was the transition like for you going
from the sidelines up to the booth as an analyst.
Speaker 3 (51:38):
You know, it wasn't much my last couple of years
they wanted you know, I mean Max was was was
like another play by play and he had just the
most colorful personality. Uh And and you know I did
probably most of the analysis from the sideline, and so
(52:01):
it was it was literally just changing my broadcast location,
you know, some some things I needed to do in pregame.
But so I don't think that was much of a transition.
At Pukatie, I think was down on the sideline for us,
and so you know, I think that was a pretty
(52:22):
good team and enjoyed the time and I got to
work with the legend Bob Davis, who was just I mean,
he's he's he's he's great. He's a natural and humble
man that was great with Max, and he was patient
with me and helped me. And I remember the when
(52:46):
I first started doing the sideline work. I asked him,
just honestly, Bob, give me some pointers. And he says, David,
it's really not that hard. It's pretty simple. He says,
Number one, you get in and out of breaks on time.
And I said, okay, I can do that. Number two,
honor all your sponsors, So yeah, I can do that.
(53:07):
I can read those those advertisement cards. And this is
number three. Don't say that word. Yes, that word, I
thought at the time, you know, I can do that,
And what a great way to tell me that. So
fast forward. It was literally my second year there, and
(53:29):
one of the reasons probably why I got the job
is one of our greatest coaches in recent years was
certainly Glenn Mason. I mean, he was a tough, minded,
excellent ball coach. Unfortunately, he had the bad timing to
come the same time as Roy Williams and Dill Snyder,
(53:52):
who kind of overshadowed what Mace was doing, but Mace
did great things for Kansas football. And so we're in
and uh, I think my first or second year of
interviewing Mason, I think Max wanted someone else to interview
coach Mason. He can be a grizzly bear.
Speaker 2 (54:11):
So I didn't get along at all.
Speaker 3 (54:16):
Yeah, so you know what I'm talking. Yeah, And so anyway,
we're down in Texas Stadium. We've played North Texas and uh,
I'm waiting for Mace to come out. And it's a
long time and I'm I'm not a young kid, but
I'm very new in interviewing head coaches and obviously a
(54:37):
little more anxiety because he can be very difficult and
when he's ready, you know, you better be ready. And
sometimes you didn't understand when you're at you're at a
commercial break, you just can't interview him. Okay, So I
am waiting. I am waiting for Mace to come and
(54:57):
we're in a commercial break and during the commercial break,
you Bob Davis is going through all the numbers. I
can hear him in the previous segment. Mark Williams one
of our one hit wonders. Long story, but we only
got him for one year and probably as the greatest
quarterback ever, certainly Kansas to play. One year he led
(55:19):
us to in a Low Haul Bowl, and Kansas by
the end of that year in ninety five was literally
a top ten team. I don't know what our final
ranking was, but he did everything that day. I mean,
he ran, he passed, He was just amazing. So Mason
comes out and we're at a commercial break, and you
(55:41):
know he's he's getting mad. I can tell, and we've
won the game, but he fin We finally get back
from the commercial and I let them know, and I
come down and I'm nervous, and I've been hearing all
about Mark Williams in my ear and where he had done.
And I see Mason. The first thing out of my mouth.
And this is not a made up story, folks, is well,
(56:05):
coach Williams, what did you think of the game? Oh boy?
And one of the greatest things ever on cue was
Bob Davis in my ear said, of course, Mason. I
can see his fury. He never quite forgave me. I
think he's forgiven me now, but it took a long year,
(56:27):
long time to do that. But Bob Davis said, in
my year, David, remember rule three? So anyway, that's funny,
very very difficult.
Speaker 2 (56:41):
Yeah, that's funny. We could talk for hours, but we
have to work towards the conclusion here. You around the
basketball program, which obviously has just been outstanding forever in
the day and been a great part of the broadcast there,
but the football team for quite a long time now,
and obviously you've rent mentioned lancelife Phold a couple of
(57:01):
times here and the hope that that promised that it's
being shown here late in this football season. What is
the challenge for a color announcer when your team is
really bad and Kansas has been really bad for a while.
Speaker 3 (57:19):
That's a great question. And you know, I mean my
number one thing is I love Kansas football. I mean,
it's going back to when I was ten years old,
and I want to be supportive, not just because I
guess as part of my job description, but I love
this team and I want to make it look as
positive as I can. But then again, I mean, there's
(57:42):
been years past where you're kind of on the at
the point where if you're really telling the truth, I mean,
your news that you give is not very good, and
so sometimes you got to select your words very carefully
and it was stressful to be on. It was. It
was very stressful, and it hurt, you know. I mean
(58:04):
it hurt me like it hurt everybody else that was
close to Kansas football. And I admire everyone that stayed
with it. I kind of liken it to uh uh,
someone that has a kid that acts up during junior
high years or whenever and and makes it difficult on
(58:26):
the parents, and you know, you don't quit loving them,
you know, because it's that's they're yours and that's what
you love. With Kansas football, that's it. I never I
don't want to do this for any other team. It
is difficult. We you know, we've we've made mistakes and
(58:48):
hires obviously, and I am so grateful that we have
it right with golf and light bulb. But to answer
your question, it was difficult. It was stressful to to
try to be honest and to try to be positive
because the reality was, for many years there wasn't a
lot of positive to talk about.
Speaker 2 (59:10):
Well, there's been a lot of positive in your life,
and I'm sure people have mentioned this before. Do you
since any sense of irony that a man named Lawrence
has made such a great home in Lawrence Kansas.
Speaker 3 (59:24):
Well, I know that I'm very blessed to have been
a part of it for so long. It's a great
place to raise a family. I am in the history
of amous Lawrence. I tried to find some connection in
our family name, but that was unsuccessful, so it is
no distant relation. But it's just been great to live here.
(59:47):
It's a great town, great place to raise a family,
and again, so fortunate to be a part of Kansas Athletics.
I do call the women's games for home games November.
Is very busy about five games a week, and which
was very difficult back when I was a teacher to
(01:00:08):
do that and to do the five games a week,
but now it's much more manageable. I mean, Bill self
is just a He's just a champion in so many ways,
treating people well. And how lucky am I to be
a former football player out there being a part of
(01:00:30):
men's basketball broadcasts and being a part of all these championships.
So it's just been great to work with Coach self.
I started with Coach Williams, but it's been nineteen under
Bill self and he's the best in a lot of ways.
And now that football is in a great direction, thanks
(01:00:52):
to Travis Golf and Landslipool. You know, I think at
some point in time that granted very early. But you know,
Bill Snyder was given credit to have the greatest turnaround
of the century, and you know a lot of that's
because of just how low the bar was. Well our
bar is pretty low too, and you know, we're just
(01:01:15):
on a kind of a two game run where we've
been really, really competitive and much much better. But you know,
I think we're going to you know, my hope is
that we'll be saying some similar things about why I
pulled in ten to fifteen years when he establishes this program,
because I do I do feel it's going to happen
and it'll be very welcomed. So I'm looking forward to
(01:01:39):
hanging in there as long as I can. Danny, I
think we're about the same age, so you know, it's
always more difficult as we get older, but it should
be exciting.
Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
It should be exciting, and it's been an exciting ride
for you family, this town, ku football. Your impact as
a player and a broadcaster and a coach and a
molder of young people. You must be yeah, and you
mentioned you want to hang in there and keep fit rolling,
but you must be awfully satisfied with how life has
turned out for you.
Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that, and particularly all the
research to find out some things that's quite frankly, I
didn't know anyone really knew anymore. But things have gone well. Certainly,
I've been through tough times like everyone else, but we've all,
you know, we just hang in there and try to
get better and get better at what we do and
(01:02:33):
be thankful and treat people right. And it's allowed me
to continue on. So yeah, I do hope to continue
as long as I can, but we'll be a fan
after that ending time happens. And thanks so much for
having me on. It was just really cool to be
(01:02:53):
on with you, so when I've known for many years,
and particularly all the research that you went to find
out about the last forty years. So that's a long
time to cover.
Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
This podcast was made possible by our great sponsors like
Eastern Roofing, the presenting sponsor of Kansas City Profiles at
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