November 7, 2025 • 41 mins
It's a Chiefs theme for this edition as we grab a tale or two with Chiefs stars Deron Cherry, Tim Grunhardt, Nick Lowery, and Jan Stenerud.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome to the Danny Clinkscale Reasonably irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten path.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Kansas City Profiles, presented by Easton Roofing. And
today we're going to bring you a new idea, something
a little bit different that will bring you every now
and then, and it's called profile pieces. And those pieces
are little bits of conversation extended seven, eight, ten minutes
with some of the people that we've talked with in
the past. We'll pick out a particular category, in this case,
(00:37):
the Kansas City Chiefs, and pick out a select story
or two that resonates and is a lot of fun,
and maybe it'll inspire you to head back and hear
the full conversation. And you can always hear them at
Danny Clinkscale dot com, on the podcast page, or any
of the places where you enjoy your podcast. They're all
archived at Apple and so on and so forth. And
today we'll visit and hear some stories from Deron Cherry,
(01:01):
Tim Grunhardt, Jon stener Rude and Nick Lowry. So should
be a lot of fun to catch up with those guys,
and as mentioned. If you want to get the full
conversations with them, you can do so at danniklinkskill dot com,
slash podcast or the podcast page, or anywhere else you
get your favorite podcasts. So let's bounce back in a
(01:22):
minute and start it up with Deron Cherry on Kansas
City Profiles presented by Eastern Roofing.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Hey, Kansas City, Joe Spiker Eastern Roofing here. Don't you
hate it when people start talking about Christmas before Thanksgiving?
Even arrives me too, But right now I'm that guy.
Call Eastern Roofing today and get on the schedule to
have your custom Christmas lights installed before Thanksgiving and receive
a ten percent discount on your holiday light installation. Stay
off that ladder and let the pros hang your custom
(01:57):
holiday lights this year, Eastern Roofing in, It already matters,
It'll be real nice Clark.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm here with Zach Rhidemeyer from Strategic Partners, Inc. Zach
Investments have their peaks and valleys. How do you help
your clients with the ups and downs?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
The peaks are great and even the valleys can provide
opportunities for you as an investor. However, the closer we
get to retirement, the more challenging these market swings can become.
I would like to get to know you and your
goals for the future. I offer financial planning services across
the United States, focusing mainly on Kansas and the Missouri area.
I look forward to meeting with you face to face
(02:33):
with the highs and lows throughout the financial landscape. MY
goal is to make sure you feel protected once you've
set your retirement date. Growing up in a tight knit community,
I understand the importance of knowing that you can rely
on someone to have your back. I'm always a phone
call away to talk with you about your investments. Make
you feel you're getting the most out of your retirement.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Give Zach a call today. It's Strategic Partners, Inc. Ask
for Zach Rhightemeyer at eight hundred four to one six
two two. That's eight hundred four to one six two
two seven.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Securities and advisory service is offered through LPL Financial, a
Registered Investment Advisor member FINRA SIPC.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
We're here with doctor Brad Wiodel from Advanced Sports and
Family Chiropractic and acupuncture. Staying active and being active is
part of a healthy lifestyle and something to make you happy,
but also maintaining the level of fitness so that you
can do it is important.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
We all want to perform better, whether we're ten moving
on to our next level of sports or whether we're
fifty wanting to maintain those sports. Staying in motion is
the key, but that motion isn't just the only part.
If our motion isn't balanced with our muscles, with our
joints and communicating through the nervous system, we are not
staying well. And that's where chiropractic can change your life.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And you have all kinds of things here at the
clinics to do that.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Lots of different touches and techniques, So if you're used
to traditional chiropractic, you are going to be amazed at
all the many different touches, techniques, therapies, and state of
the art equipment that helps you perform better.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Advanced Sports and Family Chiropractic and Acupuncture eight locations all
around the Kansas City area, so there's one near you
and you can stay fit, be fit, be happy, and
do all that at the eight locations of ASFCA. If
you'd like to join these and other fine sponsors and
market your business to Kansas City's number one variety podcast,
(04:26):
contact us at Danny at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look
forward to working with you. Welcome back. It's hard to
find somebody who has involved themselves, invested themselves on and
off the field in Kansas City more than Deron Cherry
with his foundation and of course he was a standout player,
multi time Pro Bowlers, starter, often in that particular role
(04:47):
at safety. But it wasn't exactly an easy road for Deran.
He was a free agent from Rutgers, undrafted, came to
Kansas City as a safety slash punter more actually realistically
punter slash safety. Took a while for him to get
a foothold, but hard work and talent goes a long way,
and eventually he became a mainstay.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
After outside of my contract, we had a mini camp
and I came back out there and I was punting,
and the you know, we had this new special teams coach, Danny.
You remember my old crash Frank Dan. Yeah, and and
you know he wanted to change my whole punting style
because he believed in a two step punter. And never
(05:28):
got a punt blocked. And I'm saying, well, if you
did your research on me, you're notice in college that
you know, I had never had a punt blocked in college,
and you know, I was kind of a two and
a half. I had, you know, did a little cheat step,
but I can get off just as quick as any
two step punter would get it off. And he wanted
to change my whole style. So I knew coming back
(05:51):
that you know, for summer camp, that you know, I
had a lot of work to do in the off
season as far as punting and learning this new style.
And when I got my letter to return to training camp,
I was it was it said about three days. I
was supposed to come in three days before training camp,
whereas before it was like two weeks to come in
(06:12):
and get acclimated to the climbing to come in with
all the other draft picks and and and players. And
so I was sitting at home when I got my
letter and realized that, hey, they must have made a
mistake or something, or the handwritings on the wall. They're
going to bring me into camp and then they're just
gonna cut me, you know, based on you know, my
(06:33):
performance in mini camp of having to change my whole
Putton style. And so I called Marv Levy and said, hey,
you know, I know my Putton wasn't wasn't what it
should have been. But coach Dance has had me, you know,
start all over again. It's like running out to walk again,
you know, when you change your style that you've been
(06:55):
doing your whole entire life. And I said, well, you know,
I can also play quarterback, and I can play safety,
I can play cornerback. I said, there's four or five
positions I can play. Just give me an opportunity. And
he said, okay, hold on, I'll give you a call back.
And about thirty minutes later, he calls me back and says, okay,
(07:16):
we'll bring you in early and you can work out
at the safety position. And I had looked at those
safeties during the mini camp and realized that, you know,
these guys they drafted were they were making mistakes every day.
And I'm looking at him and going, man, I'm just
as good as those guys, you know. Just give me
an opportunity to prove myself. So when I came back,
(07:39):
I just was solely playing safety position and learning that
I was doing punning too, but not as much. And
I was just you know, learning the safety position and
wind up making it to being like the last player cut.
I thought I had made the team because usually a
(07:59):
team keeps seven defensive backs and in this case, they
were only keeping six for the opening game. And I
was so disappointed. I went up to Les Miller, he
was a pro personnel director at the time, and you know,
he called me into his office. I'm dressed to go
to practice. And it's the first week of the you know,
(08:20):
the first practice of the regular season. And they were
playing at Pittsburgh Steelers at UH that year, and shoot,
I was going to be able to go back to
Pittsburgh and my family was going to be able to
come up and see me play. And I go to
Les Miller and he says, hey, man, we gotta we
gotta let you go because we drafted two tight ends,
(08:45):
uh remember Willie Scott and then Marvin Harvey, and one
of them was the first round pick, the other one
was the third round pick, and and they weren't ready
to play. So they had to wind up keeping four
tight ends, which no team did at that time. But
the Chiefs wind up keeping four tight ends because Hal Davis,
(09:06):
I mean now Dixon was the starter, and then Ed
Beckman was a special teams captain, and so they kept
four and they only kept six defensive backs for the
first game of the season. They could probably get away
with it at that time, you know, because there wasn't
that much of a specialty position. Now. Most teams were,
(09:27):
you know, two wide receivers and a tight end, so
they were basics. So you use four defensive backs, and
they figured they had two of them that could be reserves,
a corner and then another safety. So I got you know,
they said, hey, we're sorry, but we're gonna have to
send you home. So I was the last player cut.
(09:48):
I mean I was in my uniform ready to go
out to practice and thinking that I had made the team.
I had guys coming up congratulated me, like Gary Green
and Eric Harris and Gary Barbara, all the guys in
the same and that would have put me in Lloyd
you know, to two guys that year, you know that
came in the same year. You know, we've been the
(10:09):
only two, you know, the two rookies that would have
made the team. And uh, I got cut. So I
was I was not happy, but I was, you know,
I knew I could play. I had proven to him
that I could play, and they just said, hey, go home,
stay in shape. You never know when we might call
you back. So that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Well, they called you back pretty soon, didn't they.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Absolutely. I mean, I was home that weekend and I
had left as soon as I got home, I went
and saw my mom, and then I left and drove
up to uh Nork uh North New Jersey, East Orange.
That's where my college roommate lived. And I went up
and spent the weekend with him and his family, and
uh just was kind of relaxing and kind of, you know,
(10:57):
just enjoying the weekend. And then Sunday night, Mom calls
me and says, hey, Kansas City calls. They got a
ticket for you to fly out to Kansas City at
the Philadelphia Airport. One of the players got hurt and
they need you out there. So I drive home, get
back in my stuff, and get on the plane. Head
(11:19):
to Kansas City on Monday. Get into Kansas City about
five thirty, drive straight to the stadium, go into the
general manager's office Jim Shoff, and he looks at me
and says Hey, you know, the player wasn't as hurt
as bad as we thought he was, so we're not
going to be able to sign you, but you can
(11:40):
stay here. But Gary Green was nice enough. You know,
he had a two bedroom apartment and had an extra room,
so he said, hey, you can stay with me, and
you can use my car. You just drive me, drop
me off at practice, and then pick me up, but
you can my car. And then you know, basically I
(12:02):
just worked out during the day and did what I could,
and then I was there that first week, and then
the second week that she's called me back in and said, hey,
if nobody gets hurt, we're gonna have to send you home.
And that next week I think it was Frank Mano,
my mally Una got hurt and Art still got hurt
(12:25):
and uh, and then they wind up signing me.
Speaker 7 (12:28):
So that starts the story.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You've played a couple of years as a backup, but
then you moved into, uh, the starting role, and you
were great right from the start, and I think you
had the confidence to know that. But immediately you became
a Pro Bowl player, what did you feel like you
had the ability to really step in and be that good?
Speaker 6 (12:51):
I did and and the reason I did was because
I will tell you this, Danny, I was playing in
a second and they with a bunch of guys that
were all pros, Gary Barbara, Eric Harris, Gary Green, and
they were so unselfish when Moore and I were there
(13:12):
our rookie years. You know, they made sure that we
knew everything. I mean, they taught us everything about the game,
what to look forward to, how to be a professional.
They didn't they weren't selfish. You know, here's a guy,
Gary Barbrow, he's a two time All Pro player, but
(13:32):
I mean he invested totally into me and my development
in the same way with Gary Green. Those guys. You know,
they always said, hey, one of us gets hurt, you're
going to have to go in and you're going to
have to make all the calls and know the responsibilities.
And I'm depending on you, just like i'd be depending
(13:55):
on Gary Gary Barbaro to make sure I'm in the
right place and I understand I had the right defense,
that you're you're telling me and all those things. So
we get in meetings and they would make us answer
all the questions. And you know, walk Corey was our
defensive backfield coach at the time, so he always tested
(14:16):
us and you know understood that, you know, we had
to know everything, and they put that pressure on us
from the time we got there, but they were very
supportive of, you know, that learning curve for us. And
and and once you're you're you're playing with guys like
that there at that level, you know, you've got to
(14:37):
get to that level. And that's what they made sure
we did. And for me that was special because when
it came time when Gary Barbara was looking at leaving
and going to the USFL and then eventually signed with
the USFL, it was walk Corey who told the coach
(14:58):
and told management, Hey, we don't need to go find
another safety, We've got one right here. Give this guy
an opportunity, and that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Another long time integral part of this community is certainly
Tim Grunhart. The Notre Dame graduate came to Kansas City
as a second round draft choice. He played guard in college,
but everybody knew, as you're going to hear here, that
he was going to switch over to center for pro football.
He spent his entire ten year career with the Chiefs,
and we chatted about his transition from Notre Dame to
(15:31):
the pros.
Speaker 8 (15:33):
I was a guard that was being projected as a center.
So most of the gms and the offensive line coaches
and head coaches around the NFL weren't quite sure what
I was. So it was weird. I was ranked as
low as eighth round. This is remember there were twelve
rounds back then, and as high as like the fourth
or fifth round. So you know, went and worked out
(15:56):
for a couple of teams, and Washington Redskins and the
Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and now I was flowing out to
San Francisco and Bob mckinchrich was the offensive line coach,
and Seaford I believe was the head coach in Walsh,
I believe was the GM at the time. So met
with met with those guys, and at the very end
(16:16):
of and I was one of about six or seven
offensive linemaner and there are most of the other offensive
linemen were in there, like Richmond Webb and guys like
that were first round guys, and I was kind of
just you know, and and Keith Simms or I believe
that was his name, another offensive lineman, and I was
kind of, you know, that guy that was the highest
fifth or sixth round. So I was like, you know what,
(16:37):
it's great to be here, but I'm not sure what
I'm doing here. So then uh we we uh you know,
get to the last meeting and Bob Kittcher says that
you were going to take you in the first round.
And I looked at him and he said, yeah, you know,
we like the way you play, We like you know,
the person you are.
Speaker 9 (16:58):
We like that you're a smart football player. We need
a center.
Speaker 8 (17:00):
Jesse Sippolo is getting older and we want a guy
to come in here and play center. And I was like,
this is great. So of course I get on the
pay phone wouldn't have cell phones back then, call my
mom and dad and say, yeah, I'm going to get
drafted the forty nine ers And they were excited about it,
but they knew there was going to be a challenge
for them to get all the way out to San
Francisco to watch football games, and you know whether they're
(17:22):
able to see a bunch of the games or not.
So let me rewind real quick. I know every summer,
my father, like I said, was Chicago policeman, so in
the summer he would take what they call a furlough,
which was about six weeks off, I think, and he
would take all his six weeks off in the summer
and we would go down to the Lake of the Ozarks,
down to Bullshoal's Lake or down to lake like Norfolk
(17:43):
or Dwight River, and we kind of grew up in
the summer. It is basically for about ten or fifteen
years in Missouri and Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (17:50):
So so you.
Speaker 8 (17:53):
Let's fast forward to draft day. You know, I'm sitting
in my house I grew up in. It wasn't in
any fancy draft parties or wasn't it any big.
Speaker 9 (18:02):
Time New York a draft show.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
So I get a phone call from the forty nine
ers and they say, yeah, Hi, this is you know,
I think it was Coach Wallace show one of his minions.
They just want to make sure this is the number,
and you know, we're counting on picking you last pick
in the first round. They were coming off the Super Bowl.
I'm like, yeah, this is it and we're here, we're
ready for to go. And so you know, you're sitting
there through the jiy aft and it was a long
(18:26):
I think thirty picks was I think it was thirty
teams and the pick comes up, and I don't get
a phone call, and it's the forty nine ers that
pick Dexter Carter from Florida State a speedy receiver. So
right out to the pick, you know, within ten or
fifteen minutes, forty nine ers calls. You know, we didn't
realize that Dexter would follow to this spot, and I
(18:47):
think they knew in the background, we can get this
guy in the second round. So they said, you know,
we're gonna still take in the second round. You know,
we just apologize, but you know it's one of those
things at business decision by by Aye Fine. I was
still you know, fourth to fifth and sixth rounds where
I was. So the phone rings about an hour later
and it's Carl Peterson and he says, Tim Grunhart, Carl
(19:09):
Peterson from the Kansas City Chiefs, we just select you
do with the fortieth pick in the nineteen ninety draft.
I was like, oh okay. And you know they talked
to Marty and then talked to Howard Mudd and it's
all excited. And then you know Marty's brother, Kurt shot
Nhimer was with us at Notre Dame my freshman year.
(19:29):
So I talked to Kurt real quick and he said,
we're getting back together. And I hung up the phone
and it's got us my witness. I turned to Sarah
and I said, now, where is Kansas City?
Speaker 7 (19:40):
So even the fact that you had gone to the yeah.
Speaker 8 (19:43):
We knew it was up here somewhere, but I still
don't know. Is it in Kansas, Missouri? I don't know.
So so now we were laughing about that, and you know,
looked at the map and you know, okay, his south
far it is from from Chicago to Kansas City. And
so like two days later, I amount a plane and
coming here for the Red Coaders draft summary party. They
(20:04):
used to have like a dinner, and I'm sitting there
and walking around when I think the first place that
brought brought me was Gates Barbecue and on the Friday
night and then Saturday was the dinner.
Speaker 9 (20:13):
And uh, it was a very nice experience, was great.
Speaker 8 (20:16):
But you know, next thing I know, I'm living in
right by the stadium off of Northern Avenue over forty
third Northern Avenue, pretty close to the stadium over there,
and and I'm in Kansas City, and I have never
looked back.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
What was the signing process.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
Uh, well, I you know, once again, of course the
grunhard thing has got to be a disaster. They're confusing
or just simply just out of the ordinary. So Carl
Peterson calls me and uh right, you know, Carl was
famous for going on vacation right before training camp.
Speaker 9 (20:50):
I don't know if you remember this, Danny, but he
would always go on vacation for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
And it was not only for vacation for him to
get away, but pressure on those agents. If you don't
sign before this vacation, then you're not going to be
late and you're not going to come in right. So
he calls me in and sits me down at his
desk and starts talking to me about, you know, we
really want to get you in. We think you have
an opportunity to play. Mike Webster, I want to play.
It's a guy that you know, the quicker you get in,
(21:16):
you know, make sure you get all your agent and
he slides his contract across it. This is kind of
where we see you're at, and I'm like, I look
at it, like, well, you know, I'd like to get
a little bit more here, a little bit more there, says, okay,
we could probably do that. And at that point he goes, well,
to call your agent. So I call my agent and
he goes, what are you doing? He said, don't be
in there negotiating your own contract.
Speaker 9 (21:36):
That's my job.
Speaker 8 (21:37):
So I'm like, you know, so on this catch twenty two,
I felt like, I'm so smart I could negotiate my
own contract. But I wasn't smart. It was Carl was
hoodwinking me a little bit. And so, but make a
long story short, the agent got a little bit more
and I'm thinking, you know what I endo this agent for.
I could have done this myself, and I'm paying him
three percent or four percent whatever it was. So yeah,
(22:00):
it all went to him. Yeah, but he yeah, he was.
He was none too happy with me, And so I
learned learned, you know, But I was never.
Speaker 9 (22:05):
Really a free agent. I never really became.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
I always re upped kind of halfway through contracts, and
I always wanted to be here. But yeah, the signing
deal was. It was weird too. Once once again you know,
just a typical, you know, unconventional, grunheard thing.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
What kind of money was it?
Speaker 8 (22:21):
Yeah, we I mean it was signing bonus was, you know,
in the mid twies and and and I think the
first year was right around the same thing. I mean,
it's nothing compared to what they get nowadays. I mean,
it's amazing the contract these guys getting nowadays. But you know,
I often, you know, think back to when I when
I was signing those contracts, guys like Ed Buddy and
(22:42):
those guys and you know, good buddies of mine now
and you know, they were like, I can't believe you
guys are getting paid that kind of money.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
So it's it's all part of it.
Speaker 8 (22:50):
And you know, when you come from you know, I
took my signing bonus and I gave it to my
dad and I said, here, Dad, I want you to
invest this because he always it would mess around investments,
and he invested in Walmart pretty early, so it actually
worked out pretty well.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
If you'd like to join these and other great sponsors
and market your business to a growing and engaged audience,
contact us at Danny at Danni clinkscale dot com. Look
forward to hearing from you.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Attention, Kansas City business owners. Do you have a business
that has a leaky flat roof? Are you tired of
swapping out wet ceiling tiles. Are you tired of paying
for roofing service calls every time it rains? Let Eastern
Roofing's local commercial roofing experts get you back to business faster.
We give business owners the same customer service bear hug
we give our homeowners. So stop those leaks before they
(23:34):
turn into big, expensive problems with a free roof inspection.
Easternroofing dot Com nine one, three, two, five, seven, fifty
four to twenty six Integrity Matter.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
We're here with Matt Lewellen from the twenty third Street
Brewery Hence Brewery. So beer is important and you've got
great ones, Yes, we do.
Speaker 10 (23:51):
And we've got a great brewer. Angelo Ruiz has been
here for three years now and just bruise great great beer,
always something new on. It's hard to say what our
best beers are because he always has a new beer
coming out for the season. I was asked earlier today
what we have coming up next, and I'm like, I
don't know. Ask Angelo. Come inside the restaurant. Talk to Angelo,
(24:13):
our brewer. He'll tell you everything, but he might say
he doesn't know either. No matter what it is, Danny,
it's a great beer, though, and Angelo Bruce all kinds
of great.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Beer, great beers, great food, great fun at the twenty
third Street Brewery, twenty third and Castle.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast. After this, the.
Speaker 7 (24:30):
Ward kind of got out. Now the numbers were nothing new,
not right paper, but they knew that this was cooling
on because it was you know, I see Donnie and
there's not be in Green Bay here. This last he
and Jim Grabowski for the Packers, they met almost six
hundred thousand. They'd made more than Joel name of Joel
name it at four thousand, right all the contract actually
three hundred thousand dollars bullness of the thirty three thousand
(24:52):
the year for three years I remember of a great
grade guard. Ed Buddy asked me, one it working out?
They're running around the lake and Seoul Park at this
field was the sixty third Street. There is that rock.
How much money are you making? I didn't dare to
answer what it was making. I can imagine he was
the best guard in football, and certainly in the AFL,
(25:12):
maybe in all the football in the fifth or sixth years.
That wouldn't be surprised if I even made more. Right
he did but that you know, that is the circumstances
with the Bidding War, the draft and.
Speaker 9 (25:21):
The bidding War.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, no question about that. And that only lasted for
a little while, but it was certainly good for the players,
and John Brodie I think, got a lot of money
at one point for that type of thing too. So
a lot of those type of things happened. Well, you
kind of hit the ground running. I mean you made
a fifty four yard field goal for your first kick,
is that correct?
Speaker 7 (25:36):
Well, the first the first field goal I tried was
hues and yeah, you're right, and you've done your homework.
I'll tell you that that was the first attempt.
Speaker 9 (25:44):
I remember.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
Let me gave me the strings too, I remember, and
I was nervous and young. Of a fifty four yards
It wasn't used and they cleared pretty easily. That was
my first first attempt in regular season right. That actually
Houston in the preseason to and Ernie Ladd blocked my
first hick. That didn't happen in college. That we kicked
from seven yards and we didn't practice as much as
(26:07):
you do these days, and quite a few kicks blocked left.
They also kicked from seven yards right and the fields
weren't quite the same as they are today, I suppose,
but I did get off to a good start. But
I also do remember I learned early on because a
lot of kickers in the camp, even my rookie year.
(26:28):
You could be one hundred and twenty five people to
camp in those days. But after my rookie year, I'd
kicked most field goals in the AFL. I believe that
season the longest field goal and the first I was
I had to go to the Army. I wasn't an
American citizen yet, but I had to go to Fort Polk, Loucy,
and I was in the National Guard for basic training
in the off season. Right after my rookie year. I
hadn't seen the paper for five months, and I get
(26:50):
the newspaper the day I get out of the Fort Poke,
I mean the Shreeport Airport, the Louisiana. See the first
newspaper five and a half months and the first thing
I see on the front page in the Army se March.
That's all the rumors.
Speaker 9 (27:02):
All the time.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
They no cell phone, obviously, no television, no radio, no telephone.
So the on front page that had picture of Bobby
Kennedy had been shot at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles.
I get to the sports page, big picture of Hankstram
and Jim Shoff. Jim Shoff was our PR directory in
those days. They were in Europe trying out professional soccer
(27:24):
players and rugby players with strong legs to come to
camp against me. And I remember in camp my second year,
I had Bobby how Phil John Hanslim and Horse Milman.
Oh yeah, the kick against me. So the competition was
always pretty stiff. But I you know, I I was
able to do better than they that I suppose and
made the team. But that's how it was. For That's
(27:45):
how it is in the NFL. If that finds somebody
in pro sports, if that finds somebody better than you,
would they think they're better than you? Why would they
keep you? Right so early on, I knew what to expect.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And you you, basically at this early part of your
career or make king Field goals at a seventy percent
rate at a time when the league average was somewhere
around fifty three, So clearly you were head and shoulders
ahead of what other people were doing.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Well.
Speaker 7 (28:10):
The term wasn't even we didn't even even have the
term field goal percentage or hang time. Wasn't it thought
I was used, But we glanced at the stats, we
knew this on my thirteen nine or twenty six was
obviously about fifty percent. And that's true, true, it was
about fifty percent that I made about seventy and some
of them were long and have some of them quite
a few blocked. But I think the biggest reason it
(28:33):
was that low because later when I was with Green
Bay fifteen years later, I kicked over ninety percent one
year and nearly ninety when I was forty two, and
well over eighty percent at that time. But at that
time we started to break in punters as holders, right.
We didn't have a snapper yet. We didn't have a
special snapper. But in the early days, the center played
(28:54):
played center typically the quarterback typically was the holder.
Speaker 9 (28:57):
Right.
Speaker 7 (28:57):
So the practice was on Friday afternoon for a few minutes.
That was about it. With practice, you only have one practice,
feel and there was no warm up nets, right, you know,
so the number of the kicks were pretty limited.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
So what did you do to you know, like during
football practice or what did you do to stay sharp?
Speaker 9 (29:16):
I mean, I don't.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
Well, Gerald Wilson was a great punter. I mean, I
thought as Ray Guy. But what helped Ray Guy sidetracking
a little bit. They changed the rules for punting in
nineteen seventy three. Before that, everybody could release on the
snap of the ball to cover the punt. So it
was more important for hangtime when you could with only
the later, when you could wait a second and half
(29:39):
of the interior linement to cover the punt. And Gerald
was more natural for him to kick a long bowl.
Ray Guy was probably better at hanngtime. But Gerald could
play football. He had played at the Southern Mississippi. He
could play a little bit. So now I was the
only one that can't. They couldn't do anything else but kick,
and hankoud tried to keep me occupied. I could run
pretty well, I could if somebody could fill in to
(30:00):
run down on the punt returning practice and do stuff
like that. Hold the bags. We did the best we
could do. Basically, it was standing around right all day long.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Now, you obviously kicked very well through your entire career,
but probably became maybe that much more famous because of
the Chief's big upset in the Super Bowl, a game where,
by the way, as a seventh grader. I made two
hundred dollars on the Chiefs to win.
Speaker 7 (30:28):
I was going to say more than us, but you didn't.
It was a big fight pay there for us too.
Speaker 9 (30:31):
At the time.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But you kicked three field goals. You kicked those three
field goals as the first three first nine points of
the game, and in fact, one of the vikings said
you were the most valuable player of the game, even
though len of course the quarterback always wins, but so
that puts you front and center even further.
Speaker 7 (30:49):
Right, Well, it wasn't spired. I do remember, of course
the game very well. The I think was even more
important than the three field was that one was nearly
fifty yards the first one, but my first two KICKOS
was clearly way out of the end zone, and I
don't think anybody in the NFL was doing that at
that point, so they knew. I think it was Carl
(31:10):
Eller that complemented, maybe quite a bit after the game
that they felt if we got to the fifty yard
line we had a good chance of scoring. And also
our defense was tremendous that year. We know the Jets
when we beat them in the first playoff game in
and Chase stated they scored six points against US, and
then we went to Oakland to beat them to get
to the Super Bowl. They only scored seven and the
(31:31):
Vikings were favored by fourteen points, so we got to nine.
We felt pretty good, but I also felt right before
they have they was third and five again, and I'm
standards hoping I got to score, because twelve is not
a safe score. But if you get to sixteen a
really good shape. And that's when Hank called that sixty
five toss power trap, of course, and it opens wight
(31:52):
up our bandits way, wipes out the middle linebacker, and
Mike Garrett scores and that's sixteen nothing. And then we
stay and the halftime was not controlled like it is today.
It seemed like it lasted forever, and it probably lasted
over thirty minutes. Wow, So now we had to start
almost over again then and they just wanted to win
(32:12):
the game some way, and the court I scored pretty quickly,
but then though it has caught it a short pass
four to six yards for a touchdown, and they looked
pretty good. He finished twenty three seven.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
The man who replaced the Pro Football Hall of Famer
Jan Stener Rude a little bit of controversy in that
Jan would kick for six more years after he left
the Kansas City Chiefs and eventually ended up in the
Hall of Fame, but he certainly was replaced by an
outstanding kicker and Nick Lowry, and he took the rather
typical route of many kickers kicking around, as it were,
(32:44):
the National Football League, getting little tryouts and maybe being
with a team for a game or two or a preseason,
but eventually making the Chiefs unseating Jan Stenerud and going
on to a fantastic Chiefs career.
Speaker 11 (32:57):
And the anticipation of standing and a change to just
more and more focus on just controlling and preparing for
those very vivid one point two five second moments where
you either have it or you don't. You know, you're
Billy the kid. You are a quick draw artist. You've
got to get it done, and nobody cares what your
(33:17):
excuse is. That's the other part of it, you know.
In today's society, Uh, you know, everybody's got their five
thousand excuses. And what you love is just being able
to say, I missed it, and I'm going to get
the next one and learn from it, and that way
you get better and that was the process gradually, so
by the second year, I kicked a couple of field
goals for the Redskins, missed a couple of extra points
(33:39):
because I was learning to kick the ball up off
the ground and it went up over the upright with
Joe Feissman holding. And I was coming off the field
after a game in the rf KA Stadium and against
actually Marty Schottenheimer the old Cleveland Browns back then and
not Marty Shotenhunter, and I'm running into the dugout and
two Red Skins fans are going, why young suck? So
(34:05):
that was part of the process of just you know,
realizing I'm not gonna beat myself up. I'm just going
to keep swinging the bat. And what I noticed was
that people started to call me. I started to get
more tryouts, and I began to OutKick the guys that
were out kicking me, or at least I wasn't clearly
better than the year before. And when I talked to
(34:26):
kids today and adults too, I say, you know, a
lot of these quick fix self improvement speakers talk about
a month a month to get to a new place,
but I said, you know, realistically, that can be a
fundamental increment of change. But what about if you just
know that it's going to take two years, you devote
yourself to two years to amazing how much better you
(34:48):
can get at something. And so by the end of
that second year, I was cut after outkicking everybody with
the Jets a second time, and Walt Michaels, the coach, said, well,
we had we had you a year and a half
ago training camps, so we're going to go to another guy,
and Carson Long. I don't think anybody's heard of Carson Long.
He was there for a couple of games. Very frustrating
for me because I clearly I've kicked everybody, but again,
(35:10):
you know, I was getting closer and closer. And the
great story that many people haven't heard is I got
a job. I thought it was the end. I got
a job with Senator Bob pack with of Oregon on
his Commerce, Science and Transportation team, working on aviation deregulation,
and figured a great job. I'm not going to lose
my job if the Senator loses his election because you're
(35:32):
in a committee. I was namely non attorney on there
along with one lady, and I get this call a
week into the playoffs, and it's actually it's the day
of the wild card. And I had two contracts already
on my desk from Cleveland and Baltimore that was then
in the Baltimore Colts, and they hadn't offered any money. Danny,
(35:52):
and I just felt like, you know, it's time. And
this guy calls named Jim Show, and he said, I'm sorry, Nick,
I didn't call earlier, but I just had back surgery.
And Marv Levy, our coach, really appreciates the kicking game,
and I think he you know, I think we'd be
a great opportunity for you. And I said, thanks, Jim,
(36:13):
but maybe another time, and I hung up. And as
I hung up, another part of me said, oh no,
I didn't hear what they had to offer. And I
talked to my mentor and who said, you know, you'll
always wonder. And I thought at that point that it
was me in and instead I traced him back to
his hospital room. I didn't know how to spell his name,
(36:35):
didn't have his phone number, there's no cell phone, there's
no internet, and surprised Jim shoff about an hour later
and they offered me twenty five hundred dollars, which is
was just enough, you know, just enough for me to
go maybe I should try it one more time. And
they said they'd bring me in in in May rather
than late July. So I felt like I'm going to
(36:57):
get a chance to not be intimidated by John Stannard
and all these other guys. So the point is, after
two years Nanny, after being cut and being insecure, not
knowing whether I had what it took, I got to
the clue where I was confident that I'd paid my
dues and I had to OutKick this guy named the Unstandard,
this guy who had been my idol. He was tall
(37:18):
like me too. I'd have to outkicking and training kick
every single day at everything, and that would not have
been possible without going through all that rejection.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Well, certainly there's the aspect of out kicking him and
out performing him, but also you've got to try to,
you know, gain some kind of acceptance or just ignore
the fact that you won't in that particular situation. And
John Standard would go on and have success in a
couple other stop stops after that kicking. How much better
did you have to be to unseat a future Hall
(37:53):
of Famer?
Speaker 11 (37:55):
Well, you know, he was still kicking pretty well. He
had six more sea and even though of course he
didn't like me at first, he told me that that
actually made him redouble the way he trained, think about
how he trained, and he went on to have some
of his greatest seasons with Minnesota and Green Bay. And
(38:15):
so for me, it was clearly I had to make
virtually every kick. And what happened late in training camp
was Marv Leeby said any kick that took more than
one point three three seconds would be counted as no good.
And Yon tended to kick a little slower than me,
so he was not happy about that. And I thought, well,
that's not a bad sign. And then the ultimate sign downy,
(38:38):
you know, the ultimate sign was that I was getting close.
I came back to my room, I was woman with
a gun nam Paul Dombrowski, who was a rookie he
would also make the team as a defensive back, and
pulled up the covers. This is now the fifth week
of training camp, and I had beautiful, warm, warm. Infects
(38:58):
infested caumon were spread throughout my bed.
Speaker 9 (39:01):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
So you probably figured you're going to make the team then, because.
Speaker 11 (39:07):
I knew that I had not exactly endeared myself at
that point, probably for that very reason. And to answer
your point you, as Justice White told me, you know,
they're never going to like you for what you say.
They're going to like you if you just get the
job done. And luckily I started off really well, and
(39:28):
by mid season, Jack Rudney, who was the incredibly intimidating
leader of the team, who'd been actually injured the first
four games and then we won four in a row,
we did a little video for Howard Cosella we want
to be on ABC, and we sent that to him
with Steve Fuller and Don Parrish and some of the
crazy guys on the team like Don, and began to
(39:51):
kind of find my way into that. And I saw,
here's this guy who my mother thought looked like Bluebeard
the Parrot, the pirate, crying crocodile our tears with the
Special Olympics kids, and realizing that this tough man had
a big heart, and how great it felt to do
something for other people and keep yourself I think grounded.
(40:14):
So I owe it to Jack Redne for helping me
see that. And I think that helps you keep some balance,
you know, when you're at times idolized inappropriately and you
know you go through all the ego based choices of
the young athlete.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
We hope you enjoyed the latest Danny Klinkscale reasonably irreverent podcast.
Come back soon for something fresh and new. This podcast
was made possible by our great sponsors like Eastern Roofing,
where integrity matters. Joe Spiker and his team are the
best in the business for all your roofing needs. Handle
(40:53):
with honesty and craftsmanship. Visit them at Easternroofing dot com.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
Four
Welcome to the Danny Clinkscale Reasonably irreverent podcast, insightful and
witty commentary, probing interviews and detours from the beaten path.
Speaker 2 (00:15):
Welcome to Kansas City Profiles, presented by Easton Roofing. And
today we're going to bring you a new idea, something
a little bit different that will bring you every now
and then, and it's called profile pieces. And those pieces
are little bits of conversation extended seven, eight, ten minutes
with some of the people that we've talked with in
the past. We'll pick out a particular category, in this case,
(00:37):
the Kansas City Chiefs, and pick out a select story
or two that resonates and is a lot of fun,
and maybe it'll inspire you to head back and hear
the full conversation. And you can always hear them at
Danny Clinkscale dot com, on the podcast page, or any
of the places where you enjoy your podcast. They're all
archived at Apple and so on and so forth. And
today we'll visit and hear some stories from Deron Cherry,
(01:01):
Tim Grunhardt, Jon stener Rude and Nick Lowry. So should
be a lot of fun to catch up with those guys,
and as mentioned. If you want to get the full
conversations with them, you can do so at danniklinkskill dot com,
slash podcast or the podcast page, or anywhere else you
get your favorite podcasts. So let's bounce back in a
(01:22):
minute and start it up with Deron Cherry on Kansas
City Profiles presented by Eastern Roofing.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast after this.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
Hey, Kansas City, Joe Spiker Eastern Roofing here. Don't you
hate it when people start talking about Christmas before Thanksgiving?
Even arrives me too, But right now I'm that guy.
Call Eastern Roofing today and get on the schedule to
have your custom Christmas lights installed before Thanksgiving and receive
a ten percent discount on your holiday light installation. Stay
off that ladder and let the pros hang your custom
(01:57):
holiday lights this year, Eastern Roofing in, It already matters,
It'll be real nice Clark.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
I'm here with Zach Rhidemeyer from Strategic Partners, Inc. Zach
Investments have their peaks and valleys. How do you help
your clients with the ups and downs?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
The peaks are great and even the valleys can provide
opportunities for you as an investor. However, the closer we
get to retirement, the more challenging these market swings can become.
I would like to get to know you and your
goals for the future. I offer financial planning services across
the United States, focusing mainly on Kansas and the Missouri area.
I look forward to meeting with you face to face
(02:33):
with the highs and lows throughout the financial landscape. MY
goal is to make sure you feel protected once you've
set your retirement date. Growing up in a tight knit community,
I understand the importance of knowing that you can rely
on someone to have your back. I'm always a phone
call away to talk with you about your investments. Make
you feel you're getting the most out of your retirement.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Give Zach a call today. It's Strategic Partners, Inc. Ask
for Zach Rhightemeyer at eight hundred four to one six
two two. That's eight hundred four to one six two
two seven.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Securities and advisory service is offered through LPL Financial, a
Registered Investment Advisor member FINRA SIPC.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
We're here with doctor Brad Wiodel from Advanced Sports and
Family Chiropractic and acupuncture. Staying active and being active is
part of a healthy lifestyle and something to make you happy,
but also maintaining the level of fitness so that you
can do it is important.
Speaker 5 (03:27):
We all want to perform better, whether we're ten moving
on to our next level of sports or whether we're
fifty wanting to maintain those sports. Staying in motion is
the key, but that motion isn't just the only part.
If our motion isn't balanced with our muscles, with our
joints and communicating through the nervous system, we are not
staying well. And that's where chiropractic can change your life.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
And you have all kinds of things here at the
clinics to do that.
Speaker 5 (03:53):
Lots of different touches and techniques, So if you're used
to traditional chiropractic, you are going to be amazed at
all the many different touches, techniques, therapies, and state of
the art equipment that helps you perform better.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Advanced Sports and Family Chiropractic and Acupuncture eight locations all
around the Kansas City area, so there's one near you
and you can stay fit, be fit, be happy, and
do all that at the eight locations of ASFCA. If
you'd like to join these and other fine sponsors and
market your business to Kansas City's number one variety podcast,
(04:26):
contact us at Danny at Danny clinkscale dot com. Look
forward to working with you. Welcome back. It's hard to
find somebody who has involved themselves, invested themselves on and
off the field in Kansas City more than Deron Cherry
with his foundation and of course he was a standout player,
multi time Pro Bowlers, starter, often in that particular role
(04:47):
at safety. But it wasn't exactly an easy road for Deran.
He was a free agent from Rutgers, undrafted, came to
Kansas City as a safety slash punter more actually realistically
punter slash safety. Took a while for him to get
a foothold, but hard work and talent goes a long way,
and eventually he became a mainstay.
Speaker 6 (05:08):
After outside of my contract, we had a mini camp
and I came back out there and I was punting,
and the you know, we had this new special teams coach, Danny.
You remember my old crash Frank Dan. Yeah, and and
you know he wanted to change my whole punting style
because he believed in a two step punter. And never
(05:28):
got a punt blocked. And I'm saying, well, if you
did your research on me, you're notice in college that
you know, I had never had a punt blocked in college,
and you know, I was kind of a two and
a half. I had, you know, did a little cheat step,
but I can get off just as quick as any
two step punter would get it off. And he wanted
to change my whole style. So I knew coming back
(05:51):
that you know, for summer camp, that you know, I
had a lot of work to do in the off
season as far as punting and learning this new style.
And when I got my letter to return to training camp,
I was it was it said about three days. I
was supposed to come in three days before training camp,
whereas before it was like two weeks to come in
(06:12):
and get acclimated to the climbing to come in with
all the other draft picks and and and players. And
so I was sitting at home when I got my
letter and realized that, hey, they must have made a
mistake or something, or the handwritings on the wall. They're
going to bring me into camp and then they're just
gonna cut me, you know, based on you know, my
(06:33):
performance in mini camp of having to change my whole
Putton style. And so I called Marv Levy and said, hey,
you know, I know my Putton wasn't wasn't what it
should have been. But coach Dance has had me, you know,
start all over again. It's like running out to walk again,
you know, when you change your style that you've been
(06:55):
doing your whole entire life. And I said, well, you know,
I can also play quarterback, and I can play safety,
I can play cornerback. I said, there's four or five
positions I can play. Just give me an opportunity. And
he said, okay, hold on, I'll give you a call back.
And about thirty minutes later, he calls me back and says, okay,
(07:16):
we'll bring you in early and you can work out
at the safety position. And I had looked at those
safeties during the mini camp and realized that, you know,
these guys they drafted were they were making mistakes every day.
And I'm looking at him and going, man, I'm just
as good as those guys, you know. Just give me
an opportunity to prove myself. So when I came back,
(07:39):
I just was solely playing safety position and learning that
I was doing punning too, but not as much. And
I was just you know, learning the safety position and
wind up making it to being like the last player cut.
I thought I had made the team because usually a
(07:59):
team keeps seven defensive backs and in this case, they
were only keeping six for the opening game. And I
was so disappointed. I went up to Les Miller, he
was a pro personnel director at the time, and you know,
he called me into his office. I'm dressed to go
to practice. And it's the first week of the you know,
(08:20):
the first practice of the regular season. And they were
playing at Pittsburgh Steelers at UH that year, and shoot,
I was going to be able to go back to
Pittsburgh and my family was going to be able to
come up and see me play. And I go to
Les Miller and he says, hey, man, we gotta we
gotta let you go because we drafted two tight ends,
(08:45):
uh remember Willie Scott and then Marvin Harvey, and one
of them was the first round pick, the other one
was the third round pick, and and they weren't ready
to play. So they had to wind up keeping four
tight ends, which no team did at that time. But
the Chiefs wind up keeping four tight ends because Hal Davis,
(09:06):
I mean now Dixon was the starter, and then Ed
Beckman was a special teams captain, and so they kept
four and they only kept six defensive backs for the
first game of the season. They could probably get away
with it at that time, you know, because there wasn't
that much of a specialty position. Now. Most teams were,
(09:27):
you know, two wide receivers and a tight end, so
they were basics. So you use four defensive backs, and
they figured they had two of them that could be reserves,
a corner and then another safety. So I got you know,
they said, hey, we're sorry, but we're gonna have to
send you home. So I was the last player cut.
(09:48):
I mean I was in my uniform ready to go
out to practice and thinking that I had made the team.
I had guys coming up congratulated me, like Gary Green
and Eric Harris and Gary Barbara, all the guys in
the same and that would have put me in Lloyd
you know, to two guys that year, you know that
came in the same year. You know, we've been the
(10:09):
only two, you know, the two rookies that would have
made the team. And uh, I got cut. So I
was I was not happy, but I was, you know,
I knew I could play. I had proven to him
that I could play, and they just said, hey, go home,
stay in shape. You never know when we might call
you back. So that's what happened.
Speaker 2 (10:29):
Well, they called you back pretty soon, didn't they.
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Absolutely. I mean, I was home that weekend and I
had left as soon as I got home, I went
and saw my mom, and then I left and drove
up to uh Nork uh North New Jersey, East Orange.
That's where my college roommate lived. And I went up
and spent the weekend with him and his family, and
uh just was kind of relaxing and kind of, you know,
(10:57):
just enjoying the weekend. And then Sunday night, Mom calls
me and says, hey, Kansas City calls. They got a
ticket for you to fly out to Kansas City at
the Philadelphia Airport. One of the players got hurt and
they need you out there. So I drive home, get
back in my stuff, and get on the plane. Head
(11:19):
to Kansas City on Monday. Get into Kansas City about
five thirty, drive straight to the stadium, go into the
general manager's office Jim Shoff, and he looks at me
and says Hey, you know, the player wasn't as hurt
as bad as we thought he was, so we're not
going to be able to sign you, but you can
(11:40):
stay here. But Gary Green was nice enough. You know,
he had a two bedroom apartment and had an extra room,
so he said, hey, you can stay with me, and
you can use my car. You just drive me, drop
me off at practice, and then pick me up, but
you can my car. And then you know, basically I
(12:02):
just worked out during the day and did what I could,
and then I was there that first week, and then
the second week that she's called me back in and said, hey,
if nobody gets hurt, we're gonna have to send you home.
And that next week I think it was Frank Mano,
my mally Una got hurt and Art still got hurt
(12:25):
and uh, and then they wind up signing me.
Speaker 7 (12:28):
So that starts the story.
Speaker 2 (12:30):
You've played a couple of years as a backup, but
then you moved into, uh, the starting role, and you
were great right from the start, and I think you
had the confidence to know that. But immediately you became
a Pro Bowl player, what did you feel like you
had the ability to really step in and be that good?
Speaker 6 (12:51):
I did and and the reason I did was because
I will tell you this, Danny, I was playing in
a second and they with a bunch of guys that
were all pros, Gary Barbara, Eric Harris, Gary Green, and
they were so unselfish when Moore and I were there
(13:12):
our rookie years. You know, they made sure that we
knew everything. I mean, they taught us everything about the game,
what to look forward to, how to be a professional.
They didn't they weren't selfish. You know, here's a guy,
Gary Barbrow, he's a two time All Pro player, but
(13:32):
I mean he invested totally into me and my development
in the same way with Gary Green. Those guys. You know,
they always said, hey, one of us gets hurt, you're
going to have to go in and you're going to
have to make all the calls and know the responsibilities.
And I'm depending on you, just like i'd be depending
(13:55):
on Gary Gary Barbaro to make sure I'm in the
right place and I understand I had the right defense,
that you're you're telling me and all those things. So
we get in meetings and they would make us answer
all the questions. And you know, walk Corey was our
defensive backfield coach at the time, so he always tested
(14:16):
us and you know understood that, you know, we had
to know everything, and they put that pressure on us
from the time we got there, but they were very
supportive of, you know, that learning curve for us. And
and and once you're you're you're playing with guys like
that there at that level, you know, you've got to
(14:37):
get to that level. And that's what they made sure
we did. And for me that was special because when
it came time when Gary Barbara was looking at leaving
and going to the USFL and then eventually signed with
the USFL, it was walk Corey who told the coach
(14:58):
and told management, Hey, we don't need to go find
another safety, We've got one right here. Give this guy
an opportunity, and that's exactly what happened.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Another long time integral part of this community is certainly
Tim Grunhart. The Notre Dame graduate came to Kansas City
as a second round draft choice. He played guard in college,
but everybody knew, as you're going to hear here, that
he was going to switch over to center for pro football.
He spent his entire ten year career with the Chiefs,
and we chatted about his transition from Notre Dame to
(15:31):
the pros.
Speaker 8 (15:33):
I was a guard that was being projected as a center.
So most of the gms and the offensive line coaches
and head coaches around the NFL weren't quite sure what
I was. So it was weird. I was ranked as
low as eighth round. This is remember there were twelve
rounds back then, and as high as like the fourth
or fifth round. So you know, went and worked out
(15:56):
for a couple of teams, and Washington Redskins and the
Tampa Bay Buccaneers, and now I was flowing out to
San Francisco and Bob mckinchrich was the offensive line coach,
and Seaford I believe was the head coach in Walsh,
I believe was the GM at the time. So met
with met with those guys, and at the very end
(16:16):
of and I was one of about six or seven
offensive linemaner and there are most of the other offensive
linemen were in there, like Richmond Webb and guys like
that were first round guys, and I was kind of
just you know, and and Keith Simms or I believe
that was his name, another offensive lineman, and I was
kind of, you know, that guy that was the highest
fifth or sixth round. So I was like, you know what,
(16:37):
it's great to be here, but I'm not sure what
I'm doing here. So then uh we we uh you know,
get to the last meeting and Bob Kittcher says that
you were going to take you in the first round.
And I looked at him and he said, yeah, you know,
we like the way you play, We like you know,
the person you are.
Speaker 9 (16:58):
We like that you're a smart football player. We need
a center.
Speaker 8 (17:00):
Jesse Sippolo is getting older and we want a guy
to come in here and play center. And I was like,
this is great. So of course I get on the
pay phone wouldn't have cell phones back then, call my
mom and dad and say, yeah, I'm going to get
drafted the forty nine ers And they were excited about it,
but they knew there was going to be a challenge
for them to get all the way out to San
Francisco to watch football games, and you know whether they're
(17:22):
able to see a bunch of the games or not.
So let me rewind real quick. I know every summer,
my father, like I said, was Chicago policeman, so in
the summer he would take what they call a furlough,
which was about six weeks off, I think, and he
would take all his six weeks off in the summer
and we would go down to the Lake of the Ozarks,
down to Bullshoal's Lake or down to lake like Norfolk
(17:43):
or Dwight River, and we kind of grew up in
the summer. It is basically for about ten or fifteen
years in Missouri and Arkansas.
Speaker 2 (17:49):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (17:50):
So so you.
Speaker 8 (17:53):
Let's fast forward to draft day. You know, I'm sitting
in my house I grew up in. It wasn't in
any fancy draft parties or wasn't it any big.
Speaker 9 (18:02):
Time New York a draft show.
Speaker 8 (18:06):
So I get a phone call from the forty nine
ers and they say, yeah, Hi, this is you know,
I think it was Coach Wallace show one of his minions.
They just want to make sure this is the number,
and you know, we're counting on picking you last pick
in the first round. They were coming off the Super Bowl.
I'm like, yeah, this is it and we're here, we're
ready for to go. And so you know, you're sitting
there through the jiy aft and it was a long
(18:26):
I think thirty picks was I think it was thirty
teams and the pick comes up, and I don't get
a phone call, and it's the forty nine ers that
pick Dexter Carter from Florida State a speedy receiver. So
right out to the pick, you know, within ten or
fifteen minutes, forty nine ers calls. You know, we didn't
realize that Dexter would follow to this spot, and I
(18:47):
think they knew in the background, we can get this
guy in the second round. So they said, you know,
we're gonna still take in the second round. You know,
we just apologize, but you know it's one of those
things at business decision by by Aye Fine. I was
still you know, fourth to fifth and sixth rounds where
I was. So the phone rings about an hour later
and it's Carl Peterson and he says, Tim Grunhart, Carl
(19:09):
Peterson from the Kansas City Chiefs, we just select you
do with the fortieth pick in the nineteen ninety draft.
I was like, oh okay. And you know they talked
to Marty and then talked to Howard Mudd and it's
all excited. And then you know Marty's brother, Kurt shot
Nhimer was with us at Notre Dame my freshman year.
(19:29):
So I talked to Kurt real quick and he said,
we're getting back together. And I hung up the phone
and it's got us my witness. I turned to Sarah
and I said, now, where is Kansas City?
Speaker 7 (19:40):
So even the fact that you had gone to the yeah.
Speaker 8 (19:43):
We knew it was up here somewhere, but I still
don't know. Is it in Kansas, Missouri? I don't know.
So so now we were laughing about that, and you know,
looked at the map and you know, okay, his south
far it is from from Chicago to Kansas City. And
so like two days later, I amount a plane and
coming here for the Red Coaders draft summary party. They
(20:04):
used to have like a dinner, and I'm sitting there
and walking around when I think the first place that
brought brought me was Gates Barbecue and on the Friday
night and then Saturday was the dinner.
Speaker 9 (20:13):
And uh, it was a very nice experience, was great.
Speaker 8 (20:16):
But you know, next thing I know, I'm living in
right by the stadium off of Northern Avenue over forty
third Northern Avenue, pretty close to the stadium over there,
and and I'm in Kansas City, and I have never
looked back.
Speaker 2 (20:29):
What was the signing process.
Speaker 8 (20:32):
Uh, well, I you know, once again, of course the
grunhard thing has got to be a disaster. They're confusing
or just simply just out of the ordinary. So Carl
Peterson calls me and uh right, you know, Carl was
famous for going on vacation right before training camp.
Speaker 9 (20:50):
I don't know if you remember this, Danny, but he
would always go on vacation for a couple of weeks.
Speaker 8 (20:55):
And it was not only for vacation for him to
get away, but pressure on those agents. If you don't
sign before this vacation, then you're not going to be
late and you're not going to come in right. So
he calls me in and sits me down at his
desk and starts talking to me about, you know, we
really want to get you in. We think you have
an opportunity to play. Mike Webster, I want to play.
It's a guy that you know, the quicker you get in,
(21:16):
you know, make sure you get all your agent and
he slides his contract across it. This is kind of
where we see you're at, and I'm like, I look
at it, like, well, you know, I'd like to get
a little bit more here, a little bit more there, says, okay,
we could probably do that. And at that point he goes, well,
to call your agent. So I call my agent and
he goes, what are you doing? He said, don't be
in there negotiating your own contract.
Speaker 9 (21:36):
That's my job.
Speaker 8 (21:37):
So I'm like, you know, so on this catch twenty two,
I felt like, I'm so smart I could negotiate my
own contract. But I wasn't smart. It was Carl was
hoodwinking me a little bit. And so, but make a
long story short, the agent got a little bit more
and I'm thinking, you know what I endo this agent for.
I could have done this myself, and I'm paying him
three percent or four percent whatever it was. So yeah,
(22:00):
it all went to him. Yeah, but he yeah, he was.
He was none too happy with me, And so I
learned learned, you know, But I was never.
Speaker 9 (22:05):
Really a free agent. I never really became.
Speaker 8 (22:08):
I always re upped kind of halfway through contracts, and
I always wanted to be here. But yeah, the signing
deal was. It was weird too. Once once again you know,
just a typical, you know, unconventional, grunheard thing.
Speaker 2 (22:19):
What kind of money was it?
Speaker 8 (22:21):
Yeah, we I mean it was signing bonus was, you know,
in the mid twies and and and I think the
first year was right around the same thing. I mean,
it's nothing compared to what they get nowadays. I mean,
it's amazing the contract these guys getting nowadays. But you know,
I often, you know, think back to when I when
I was signing those contracts, guys like Ed Buddy and
(22:42):
those guys and you know, good buddies of mine now
and you know, they were like, I can't believe you
guys are getting paid that kind of money.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
So it's it's all part of it.
Speaker 8 (22:50):
And you know, when you come from you know, I
took my signing bonus and I gave it to my
dad and I said, here, Dad, I want you to
invest this because he always it would mess around investments,
and he invested in Walmart pretty early, so it actually
worked out pretty well.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
If you'd like to join these and other great sponsors
and market your business to a growing and engaged audience,
contact us at Danny at Danni clinkscale dot com. Look
forward to hearing from you.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Attention, Kansas City business owners. Do you have a business
that has a leaky flat roof? Are you tired of
swapping out wet ceiling tiles. Are you tired of paying
for roofing service calls every time it rains? Let Eastern
Roofing's local commercial roofing experts get you back to business faster.
We give business owners the same customer service bear hug
we give our homeowners. So stop those leaks before they
(23:34):
turn into big, expensive problems with a free roof inspection.
Easternroofing dot Com nine one, three, two, five, seven, fifty
four to twenty six Integrity Matter.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
We're here with Matt Lewellen from the twenty third Street
Brewery Hence Brewery. So beer is important and you've got
great ones, Yes, we do.
Speaker 10 (23:51):
And we've got a great brewer. Angelo Ruiz has been
here for three years now and just bruise great great beer,
always something new on. It's hard to say what our
best beers are because he always has a new beer
coming out for the season. I was asked earlier today
what we have coming up next, and I'm like, I
don't know. Ask Angelo. Come inside the restaurant. Talk to Angelo,
(24:13):
our brewer. He'll tell you everything, but he might say
he doesn't know either. No matter what it is, Danny,
it's a great beer, though, and Angelo Bruce all kinds
of great.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
Beer, great beers, great food, great fun at the twenty
third Street Brewery, twenty third and Castle.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
More of Danny's Reasonably Irreverend podcast. After this, the.
Speaker 7 (24:30):
Ward kind of got out. Now the numbers were nothing new,
not right paper, but they knew that this was cooling
on because it was you know, I see Donnie and
there's not be in Green Bay here. This last he
and Jim Grabowski for the Packers, they met almost six
hundred thousand. They'd made more than Joel name of Joel
name it at four thousand, right all the contract actually
three hundred thousand dollars bullness of the thirty three thousand
(24:52):
the year for three years I remember of a great
grade guard. Ed Buddy asked me, one it working out?
They're running around the lake and Seoul Park at this
field was the sixty third Street. There is that rock.
How much money are you making? I didn't dare to
answer what it was making. I can imagine he was
the best guard in football, and certainly in the AFL,
(25:12):
maybe in all the football in the fifth or sixth years.
That wouldn't be surprised if I even made more. Right
he did but that you know, that is the circumstances
with the Bidding War, the draft and.
Speaker 9 (25:21):
The bidding War.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
Yeah, no question about that. And that only lasted for
a little while, but it was certainly good for the players,
and John Brodie I think, got a lot of money
at one point for that type of thing too. So
a lot of those type of things happened. Well, you
kind of hit the ground running. I mean you made
a fifty four yard field goal for your first kick,
is that correct?
Speaker 7 (25:36):
Well, the first the first field goal I tried was
hues and yeah, you're right, and you've done your homework.
I'll tell you that that was the first attempt.
Speaker 9 (25:44):
I remember.
Speaker 7 (25:44):
Let me gave me the strings too, I remember, and
I was nervous and young. Of a fifty four yards
It wasn't used and they cleared pretty easily. That was
my first first attempt in regular season right. That actually
Houston in the preseason to and Ernie Ladd blocked my
first hick. That didn't happen in college. That we kicked
from seven yards and we didn't practice as much as
(26:07):
you do these days, and quite a few kicks blocked left.
They also kicked from seven yards right and the fields
weren't quite the same as they are today, I suppose,
but I did get off to a good start. But
I also do remember I learned early on because a
lot of kickers in the camp, even my rookie year.
(26:28):
You could be one hundred and twenty five people to
camp in those days. But after my rookie year, I'd
kicked most field goals in the AFL. I believe that
season the longest field goal and the first I was
I had to go to the Army. I wasn't an
American citizen yet, but I had to go to Fort Polk, Loucy,
and I was in the National Guard for basic training
in the off season. Right after my rookie year. I
hadn't seen the paper for five months, and I get
(26:50):
the newspaper the day I get out of the Fort Poke,
I mean the Shreeport Airport, the Louisiana. See the first
newspaper five and a half months and the first thing
I see on the front page in the Army se March.
That's all the rumors.
Speaker 9 (27:02):
All the time.
Speaker 7 (27:02):
They no cell phone, obviously, no television, no radio, no telephone.
So the on front page that had picture of Bobby
Kennedy had been shot at the Ambassador Hotel in Los Angeles.
I get to the sports page, big picture of Hankstram
and Jim Shoff. Jim Shoff was our PR directory in
those days. They were in Europe trying out professional soccer
(27:24):
players and rugby players with strong legs to come to
camp against me. And I remember in camp my second year,
I had Bobby how Phil John Hanslim and Horse Milman.
Oh yeah, the kick against me. So the competition was
always pretty stiff. But I you know, I I was
able to do better than they that I suppose and
made the team. But that's how it was. For That's
(27:45):
how it is in the NFL. If that finds somebody
in pro sports, if that finds somebody better than you,
would they think they're better than you? Why would they
keep you? Right so early on, I knew what to expect.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
And you you, basically at this early part of your
career or make king Field goals at a seventy percent
rate at a time when the league average was somewhere
around fifty three, So clearly you were head and shoulders
ahead of what other people were doing.
Speaker 4 (28:09):
Well.
Speaker 7 (28:10):
The term wasn't even we didn't even even have the
term field goal percentage or hang time. Wasn't it thought
I was used, But we glanced at the stats, we
knew this on my thirteen nine or twenty six was
obviously about fifty percent. And that's true, true, it was
about fifty percent that I made about seventy and some
of them were long and have some of them quite
a few blocked. But I think the biggest reason it
(28:33):
was that low because later when I was with Green
Bay fifteen years later, I kicked over ninety percent one
year and nearly ninety when I was forty two, and
well over eighty percent at that time. But at that
time we started to break in punters as holders, right.
We didn't have a snapper yet. We didn't have a
special snapper. But in the early days, the center played
(28:54):
played center typically the quarterback typically was the holder.
Speaker 9 (28:57):
Right.
Speaker 7 (28:57):
So the practice was on Friday afternoon for a few minutes.
That was about it. With practice, you only have one practice,
feel and there was no warm up nets, right, you know,
so the number of the kicks were pretty limited.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
So what did you do to you know, like during
football practice or what did you do to stay sharp?
Speaker 9 (29:16):
I mean, I don't.
Speaker 7 (29:17):
Well, Gerald Wilson was a great punter. I mean, I
thought as Ray Guy. But what helped Ray Guy sidetracking
a little bit. They changed the rules for punting in
nineteen seventy three. Before that, everybody could release on the
snap of the ball to cover the punt. So it
was more important for hangtime when you could with only
the later, when you could wait a second and half
(29:39):
of the interior linement to cover the punt. And Gerald
was more natural for him to kick a long bowl.
Ray Guy was probably better at hanngtime. But Gerald could
play football. He had played at the Southern Mississippi. He
could play a little bit. So now I was the
only one that can't. They couldn't do anything else but kick,
and hankoud tried to keep me occupied. I could run
pretty well, I could if somebody could fill in to
(30:00):
run down on the punt returning practice and do stuff
like that. Hold the bags. We did the best we
could do. Basically, it was standing around right all day long.
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Now, you obviously kicked very well through your entire career,
but probably became maybe that much more famous because of
the Chief's big upset in the Super Bowl, a game where,
by the way, as a seventh grader. I made two
hundred dollars on the Chiefs to win.
Speaker 7 (30:28):
I was going to say more than us, but you didn't.
It was a big fight pay there for us too.
Speaker 9 (30:31):
At the time.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
But you kicked three field goals. You kicked those three
field goals as the first three first nine points of
the game, and in fact, one of the vikings said
you were the most valuable player of the game, even
though len of course the quarterback always wins, but so
that puts you front and center even further.
Speaker 7 (30:49):
Right, Well, it wasn't spired. I do remember, of course
the game very well. The I think was even more
important than the three field was that one was nearly
fifty yards the first one, but my first two KICKOS
was clearly way out of the end zone, and I
don't think anybody in the NFL was doing that at
that point, so they knew. I think it was Carl
(31:10):
Eller that complemented, maybe quite a bit after the game
that they felt if we got to the fifty yard
line we had a good chance of scoring. And also
our defense was tremendous that year. We know the Jets
when we beat them in the first playoff game in
and Chase stated they scored six points against US, and
then we went to Oakland to beat them to get
to the Super Bowl. They only scored seven and the
(31:31):
Vikings were favored by fourteen points, so we got to nine.
We felt pretty good, but I also felt right before
they have they was third and five again, and I'm
standards hoping I got to score, because twelve is not
a safe score. But if you get to sixteen a
really good shape. And that's when Hank called that sixty
five toss power trap, of course, and it opens wight
(31:52):
up our bandits way, wipes out the middle linebacker, and
Mike Garrett scores and that's sixteen nothing. And then we
stay and the halftime was not controlled like it is today.
It seemed like it lasted forever, and it probably lasted
over thirty minutes. Wow, So now we had to start
almost over again then and they just wanted to win
(32:12):
the game some way, and the court I scored pretty quickly,
but then though it has caught it a short pass
four to six yards for a touchdown, and they looked
pretty good. He finished twenty three seven.
Speaker 2 (32:23):
The man who replaced the Pro Football Hall of Famer
Jan Stener Rude a little bit of controversy in that
Jan would kick for six more years after he left
the Kansas City Chiefs and eventually ended up in the
Hall of Fame, but he certainly was replaced by an
outstanding kicker and Nick Lowry, and he took the rather
typical route of many kickers kicking around, as it were,
(32:44):
the National Football League, getting little tryouts and maybe being
with a team for a game or two or a preseason,
but eventually making the Chiefs unseating Jan Stenerud and going
on to a fantastic Chiefs career.
Speaker 11 (32:57):
And the anticipation of standing and a change to just
more and more focus on just controlling and preparing for
those very vivid one point two five second moments where
you either have it or you don't. You know, you're
Billy the kid. You are a quick draw artist. You've
got to get it done, and nobody cares what your
(33:17):
excuse is. That's the other part of it, you know.
In today's society, Uh, you know, everybody's got their five
thousand excuses. And what you love is just being able
to say, I missed it, and I'm going to get
the next one and learn from it, and that way
you get better and that was the process gradually, so
by the second year, I kicked a couple of field
goals for the Redskins, missed a couple of extra points
(33:39):
because I was learning to kick the ball up off
the ground and it went up over the upright with
Joe Feissman holding. And I was coming off the field
after a game in the rf KA Stadium and against
actually Marty Schottenheimer the old Cleveland Browns back then and
not Marty Shotenhunter, and I'm running into the dugout and
two Red Skins fans are going, why young suck? So
(34:05):
that was part of the process of just you know,
realizing I'm not gonna beat myself up. I'm just going
to keep swinging the bat. And what I noticed was
that people started to call me. I started to get
more tryouts, and I began to OutKick the guys that
were out kicking me, or at least I wasn't clearly
better than the year before. And when I talked to
(34:26):
kids today and adults too, I say, you know, a
lot of these quick fix self improvement speakers talk about
a month a month to get to a new place,
but I said, you know, realistically, that can be a
fundamental increment of change. But what about if you just
know that it's going to take two years, you devote
yourself to two years to amazing how much better you
(34:48):
can get at something. And so by the end of
that second year, I was cut after outkicking everybody with
the Jets a second time, and Walt Michaels, the coach, said, well,
we had we had you a year and a half
ago training camps, so we're going to go to another guy,
and Carson Long. I don't think anybody's heard of Carson Long.
He was there for a couple of games. Very frustrating
for me because I clearly I've kicked everybody, but again,
(35:10):
you know, I was getting closer and closer. And the
great story that many people haven't heard is I got
a job. I thought it was the end. I got
a job with Senator Bob pack with of Oregon on
his Commerce, Science and Transportation team, working on aviation deregulation,
and figured a great job. I'm not going to lose
my job if the Senator loses his election because you're
(35:32):
in a committee. I was namely non attorney on there
along with one lady, and I get this call a
week into the playoffs, and it's actually it's the day
of the wild card. And I had two contracts already
on my desk from Cleveland and Baltimore that was then
in the Baltimore Colts, and they hadn't offered any money. Danny,
(35:52):
and I just felt like, you know, it's time. And
this guy calls named Jim Show, and he said, I'm sorry, Nick,
I didn't call earlier, but I just had back surgery.
And Marv Levy, our coach, really appreciates the kicking game,
and I think he you know, I think we'd be
a great opportunity for you. And I said, thanks, Jim,
(36:13):
but maybe another time, and I hung up. And as
I hung up, another part of me said, oh no,
I didn't hear what they had to offer. And I
talked to my mentor and who said, you know, you'll
always wonder. And I thought at that point that it
was me in and instead I traced him back to
his hospital room. I didn't know how to spell his name,
(36:35):
didn't have his phone number, there's no cell phone, there's
no internet, and surprised Jim shoff about an hour later
and they offered me twenty five hundred dollars, which is
was just enough, you know, just enough for me to
go maybe I should try it one more time. And
they said they'd bring me in in in May rather
than late July. So I felt like I'm going to
(36:57):
get a chance to not be intimidated by John Stannard
and all these other guys. So the point is, after
two years Nanny, after being cut and being insecure, not
knowing whether I had what it took, I got to
the clue where I was confident that I'd paid my
dues and I had to OutKick this guy named the Unstandard,
this guy who had been my idol. He was tall
(37:18):
like me too. I'd have to outkicking and training kick
every single day at everything, and that would not have
been possible without going through all that rejection.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Well, certainly there's the aspect of out kicking him and
out performing him, but also you've got to try to,
you know, gain some kind of acceptance or just ignore
the fact that you won't in that particular situation. And
John Standard would go on and have success in a
couple other stop stops after that kicking. How much better
did you have to be to unseat a future Hall
(37:53):
of Famer?
Speaker 11 (37:55):
Well, you know, he was still kicking pretty well. He
had six more sea and even though of course he
didn't like me at first, he told me that that
actually made him redouble the way he trained, think about
how he trained, and he went on to have some
of his greatest seasons with Minnesota and Green Bay. And
(38:15):
so for me, it was clearly I had to make
virtually every kick. And what happened late in training camp
was Marv Leeby said any kick that took more than
one point three three seconds would be counted as no good.
And Yon tended to kick a little slower than me,
so he was not happy about that. And I thought, well,
that's not a bad sign. And then the ultimate sign downy,
(38:38):
you know, the ultimate sign was that I was getting close.
I came back to my room, I was woman with
a gun nam Paul Dombrowski, who was a rookie he
would also make the team as a defensive back, and
pulled up the covers. This is now the fifth week
of training camp, and I had beautiful, warm, warm. Infects
(38:58):
infested caumon were spread throughout my bed.
Speaker 9 (39:01):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
So you probably figured you're going to make the team then, because.
Speaker 11 (39:07):
I knew that I had not exactly endeared myself at
that point, probably for that very reason. And to answer
your point you, as Justice White told me, you know,
they're never going to like you for what you say.
They're going to like you if you just get the
job done. And luckily I started off really well, and
(39:28):
by mid season, Jack Rudney, who was the incredibly intimidating
leader of the team, who'd been actually injured the first
four games and then we won four in a row,
we did a little video for Howard Cosella we want
to be on ABC, and we sent that to him
with Steve Fuller and Don Parrish and some of the
crazy guys on the team like Don, and began to
(39:51):
kind of find my way into that. And I saw,
here's this guy who my mother thought looked like Bluebeard
the Parrot, the pirate, crying crocodile our tears with the
Special Olympics kids, and realizing that this tough man had
a big heart, and how great it felt to do
something for other people and keep yourself I think grounded.
(40:14):
So I owe it to Jack Redne for helping me
see that. And I think that helps you keep some balance,
you know, when you're at times idolized inappropriately and you
know you go through all the ego based choices of
the young athlete.
Speaker 1 (40:33):
We hope you enjoyed the latest Danny Klinkscale reasonably irreverent podcast.
Come back soon for something fresh and new. This podcast
was made possible by our great sponsors like Eastern Roofing,
where integrity matters. Joe Spiker and his team are the
best in the business for all your roofing needs. Handle
(40:53):
with honesty and craftsmanship. Visit them at Easternroofing dot com.
Speaker 6 (41:00):
Four
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com