January 13, 2022 • 53 mins
When a young woman is raped and murdered on the beaches of the Outer Banks of the Carolinas, the list of potential suspects is vast. And with Hurricane Emily bearing down on the coast, investigators must act quickly to solve the case.
Written and read by Jordan Crittenden
Music by Jordan Crittenden, Doug Maxwell, Godmode, The Whole Other, pATCHES
Artwork by cinnameana.art@gmail.com (email for commissions)
Sources consulted:
- Rebecca Reisner. Janet Siclari's Surfside Homicide. 2019.
- Forensic Files (FilmRise): "A Cinderella Story." 2007.
- State v Berry: Court of Appeals of North Carolina - State of North Carolina v Thomas Jabin Berry. 2001, May, 01.
- Murder Next Door (Investigation Discovery): "Murder in Paradise." 2013.
To support Dark Dark World: http://www.patreon.com/darkdarkworld
Web: http://www.darkdarkworld.com
Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/DDWstore
Twitter: @darkworldpod
Instagram: @darkdarkworldpodcast
Email: darkworldpod@gmail.com
Thank you for listening!
Written and read by Jordan Crittenden
Music by Jordan Crittenden, Doug Maxwell, Godmode, The Whole Other, pATCHES
Artwork by cinnameana.art@gmail.com (email for commissions)
Sources consulted:
- Rebecca Reisner. Janet Siclari's Surfside Homicide. 2019.
- Forensic Files (FilmRise): "A Cinderella Story." 2007.
- State v Berry: Court of Appeals of North Carolina - State of North Carolina v Thomas Jabin Berry. 2001, May, 01.
- Murder Next Door (Investigation Discovery): "Murder in Paradise." 2013.
To support Dark Dark World: http://www.patreon.com/darkdarkworld
Web: http://www.darkdarkworld.com
Store: https://www.etsy.com/shop/DDWstore
Twitter: @darkworldpod
Instagram: @darkdarkworldpodcast
Email: darkworldpod@gmail.com
Thank you for listening!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Dark Dark World contains strong language anddepictions of sex violence and sexual violence.
Please use discretion when listening to ourepisodes. So here's something you probably don't
know about me. I don't knowwhy you would, but I'm kind of
(00:20):
into pirates, always have been,really. When I was a kid,
I was fascinated with this sort ofabridged edition of Treasure Island by Robert Lewis
Stevenson. It was abridged, asI say, and it was illustrated,
and I used to love to lookat that thing all the time. Loved
(00:42):
the Treasure Island movie. When Iwas a kid, the black Spot thing
used to terrify me. It wasabsolutely petrified of the black Spot thing,
if you know, you know.And then later in life as an adult,
I read Kidnapped and Treasure Island theactual you know, the full versions,
(01:04):
the proper novels, and found thatknow, these books kick ass in
their full version as well, andfound them just as compelling. As an
adult, I've always just been intopirate lore. I can sit and watch
a pirate doc if it's well made, and there are many of them.
I know. There are some pirateshows like Black Sales and stuff, which
(01:29):
I actually haven't explored, don't knowtoo much about those, but anyway,
Yeah, I'm pretty into pirates,and I especially like old piratey lore that
ties into real places, you know, sort of myths and old fables that
(01:49):
certain cities or towns tell about abouttheir past, which may or may not
be true. And I've sort ofgott an example of that today because the
case that I'm bringing you today takesplace in the Outer Banks of North Carolina,
popular tourist destination, vacationers, beachtowns, you know that whole vibe.
(02:15):
I've never been to the Outer Banks, actually, but I know people
who are big fans and vacation therefrequently. And our story today takes place
specifically in a beach town in theOuter Banks called Nag's Head. And Nag's
Head, as maybe you have guessed, has its own fair share of pirate
(02:38):
lore. The Outer Banks in generalwere often ransacked by pirates back in the
day, and that's not really lower, that's not myth, that is factual,
but there are also legends. Nag'sHead has pirate legends which may or
may not be true. I'm goingto read to you now about a little
(03:00):
bit of Nag's Head pirate lore fromthe Outer Bank's official tourism website. I
quote the legend of Nag's Head takesus back to days of on land piracy,
when tails drifted ashore about the wonderfultreasures traveling at sea being plundered by
(03:23):
rogue businessmen like Blackbeard. That oneof the original Outer Bankers got the inspiration
which brought about the equine moniker.A lantern was tied around the neck of
an old gentle horse, and thenthis old nag was let up and down
the tallest of the sand dunes,Jockey's Ridge, so that the light shone
(03:44):
out to sea. As a ship'scaptain saw this gently bobbing light, it
seemed to be from a ship ridingat anchor in a sheltered harbor. As
the captain tried to put into thissafe harbor, his ship would pile up
on the treacherous shoals that constantly writheand change shape beneath the surface. The
(04:05):
land pirates made the crew walk theplank, looted and burned the hapless ship,
and made away with the bounty.End quote. And as is often
the case with old pirate lower,there are the tales of rape and pillage,
shipwrecked pirates, land pirates, drunkenlyroaming the beaches trying to get their
(04:29):
hands on any loot they could.Passers by needed to be alert, keeping
their eyes peeled, their pockets tight. Fathers, keep your daughters safe.
Young maidens. Stay off the beachesat night, in the wee hours of
the morning, with only the moonto light the sand and water. The
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stumbling pirate tires of jewels and coin. Old nagshead Tom has designs on you,
fair maid. The only loot willsatisfy now hides under your frily skirts
from an old c shanty. Iquote, Tom's got a big sharp knife
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in his boot, and he's goingto use it to get his loot.
End quote. Just old timey piratelore, though a maybe maybe so.
But what if I told you thatour story today takes place in nineteen ninety
three, that an unsuspecting fair maidenis raped and murdered while merely vacationing on
(05:38):
the outer banks. And if Itold you that sometimes it's not what it
so often is. An ex lover, a boyfriend, a partner, a
spouse, not a jealous friend ora co worker, not a robbery gone
wrong, that in the wee hoursof the morning, a drunken sailor is
(06:00):
no longer satisfied by drink and drugand turns his focus to something else.
You know, he's got a bigsharp knife in his boot and all that.
Then maybe then you'd believe that Nag'sHead Tom is more, much more
(06:24):
than old pirate Lower. Hello,listeners, welcome back to another show.
I'm your host Jordan Crittenden and thisis Dark Dark World, Episode thirty one,
Nag's Head Tom. In August ofnineteen ninety three, a thirty five
(07:15):
year old ultrasound technician from Arlington,New Jersey named Janet Zacclarie went on vacation
to Nag's Head, a small beachtown on the outer banks of the Carolinas.
Janet went along with her brother Robert, and a couple of mutual friends.
The group checked into a hotel calledthe Carolinian and enjoyed their time on
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the beach as they'd done many timesbefore. One Friday night on that August
trip, after a dinner at thehotel, the group of friends went out
to a club, had some drinks, danced, had a good time in
town. Janet's brother Robert and themutual friend decided to leave early and head
(08:01):
back to the hotel, but Janetwanted a little more time out. She
was single again after all, andthere were still a couple acute guys left
here at the bar. The groupleft the car with Janet and took a
cab back to the Carolinian. Ataround two thirty am on Saturday morning,
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Robert Zaklari, sleeping in his hotelroom, woke to some rustling sounds in
the darkened room. He could justmake out Janet digging into a purse.
She told him not to worry,she was just getting some cigarettes. Robert
thought maybe he heard voices just outsidethe room, but wasn't sure. He
(08:45):
fell back asleep. After the sunhad come up. Later that morning,
a sanitation worker cleaning up the beachfor the Carolinian made a gruesome discovery.
There on the sandy beach, onlyten yards down from the hotel, lay
the dead body of a young woman, curled up in a half fetal position
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and naked from below the waist.She was clutching her own white Denham shorts
to her neck, where her throathad been split. Not long after this
discovery, Assistant District Attorney Robert Trevette, received a phone call and was told
that he'd better come down to thebeach. When he arrived at the scene,
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Ada Trevette, along with lead DetectiveTom Gilliam, examined the body.
She was lying on her side insort of a half fetal position. She
had on the top, but shedidn't have on anything below the waist,
and then she was actually clutching hershorts up next to her neck near where
her throat had been cut, andit was apparent to me that she had
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died trying to stop the bleeding thispiece of clothing. It was hard to
say just how many wounds the victimhad suffered, but there were several stab
and slash wounds. She was coveredin blood. Initially she couldn't be identified,
but it was assumed that she wasa tourist because of the proximity to
the hotel. Investigators walking around thearea collected some cigarette butts and discarded beer
(10:24):
cans near the body. They alsofound something a bit more out of the
ordinary. Not five feet from thebody were a pair of white sneakers with
gray socks tucked inside them. Atthis time, a distraught Robert Sclary came
running down to the beach screaming,shouting that his sister Janet hadn't slept in
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her bed last night, and whenhe looked out the window and saw the
police, he feared the worst.Robert was right to fear the worst.
As he came upon the scene,he recognized his sister Janet instantly. After
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he was able to gather himself abit more, Robert cclary went down to
the police station with Ada, RobertTrivette, and Tom Gilliam, the lead
detective. They wanted to interview Robertfirst because, as far as they knew,
he was the last person to seehis sister Janet alive. Now,
Robert Clary told the investigators about thenight before. When he remembered early in
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the morning Janet coming in for acigarette. He was groggy and sort of
half asleep, but he couldn't besure. He thought he heard some whispering.
Thought it might have been some oftheir other friends, but he wasn't
sure. Now having talked to theother friends, they said, no,
they weren't with Janet. The lasttime they saw her was when they left
the bar. She was someone else. Was she on her own? Just
(12:03):
what happened to Janet after they leftthe bar. Robert couldn't provide those answers.
He could only let the investigators knowthat Janet had come into the room
at what he thinks was about twothirty and said she was getting cigarettes.
And this wouldn't have been unusual forJanet. She'd liked to have a cigarette
before bed, and it was typicalfor her to go out of the hotel
(12:24):
down onto the beach to smoke acigarette as sort of a nightcap, and
then come back in and go tobed. But Robert Ceclari was starting to
form some suspicions of his own.He said that there were two men sort
of giving Janet the eye, givingher lots of attention at that club that
they were at the night before,and this was the Porto Call nightclub,
(12:48):
which still stands there today as faras I understand. And the investigators told
Robert that his suspicions were probably wellfounded. But let's back up just a
little bit. Tell us about theday, tell us about out your Friday
with your sister. And Robert explainedthat essentially they were just at the beach
hanging out all day, as theyhad been most of the week, at
(13:09):
seven pm, they had dinner thereat the hotel at the Carolinian. At
dinner, Robert mentioned that he hadcomplained about his food and got sort of
a hostile, angry reaction from thewaitress, and then the waitress sort of
gave Janet the stink eye on Robert'sbehalf. This could just be Robert looking
(13:31):
for anything and everything that might possiblybe tied to the death of his sister,
and it's hard to blame him.Seems unlikely to me right off the
bat here that a waitress giving Janetthe stink eye about her brother complaining about
his food being cold or whatever thecomplaint was, suddenly murders her with a
knife on the beach. After thedinner, they do go to the Porto
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Call nightclub, and it was thereat the club that, along with the
group of friends and her brother,Robert met up with another man, read
Powell, who was a local bartenderthat Janet had met earlier in the week,
and he sort of continued to hangout with the group throughout the week
off and on when he wasn't workingor when he was available. Now,
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Robert told the investigators that Reid,who was aged thirty was very much Janet's
type, you know, sort ofrugged, outdoorsy guy, tan skin,
beach dude, ruggedly handsome, youknow the guy. But so he's there,
everyone's hanging out, having a goodtime at the Porto Call, there's
(14:39):
dancing, drinks are flowing, andthen, believe it or not, snarky
waitress from the hotel arrives at theclub, and Robert thought that she seemed
pretty put off by Janet flirting withReid Powell. And it just so happened
that the waitress was the sort ofon again, off again girlfriend of Reid
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Powell. So now you add thatpiece of information with the stink eye at
dinner. Maybe I don't know thatwe're close enough to stabbing yet, but
definitely worth noting right now. ReidPowell himself didn't seem phased at all by
his sort of ex girlfriend, currentgirlfriend, mutual acquaintance, whatever he would
(15:24):
refer to her, as he didnot seem to upset that she seemed upset
and jealous, sort of glaring athim from across the club or whatever she
was doing. And Read and Janetcontinued to hang out. They kept dancing,
they kept sitting next to each other, at the bar, and you
know, as the night moved on. As I mentioned earlier, Janet's friends
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and her brother Robert said they hadhad enough. They were going to go
home and go back to the hotel, but Janet wanted to stay with Reid,
and when they parted ways they're atthe club. Was the last time
that Robert c clary saw his sisterJanet until that weird, sort of groggy
wake up a few hours later intothe early morning. Janet had come back
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into the room again at a roundtwo thirty am, and Robert was asleep
in the bed. Janet came intothe room, she got her cigarettes and
then definitely did leave again. Andas I mentioned before, he assumed that
she was just going out to haveher customary cigarette on the beach before bed.
Nothing unusual. So next the investigatorsgo and speak with the girlfriend of
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Reid Powell. Seems like a logicalplace to go next, right, She
admitted, Look, I was jealous. Yes, I was at the club
last night. She didn't remember givinganyone a stink guy or having any issue
at the hotel restaurant where she wasworking, but she did admit to being
at the club, and she didadmit to being jealous about it. She
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said that she and Reid had avery complicated relationship. It was on again,
off again, and she didn't likethe way that he was there flirting
with Janet. She was even moreforthcoming and it was able to give some
more information about what happened after RobertCeclari and the mutual friends had left the
club and left Janet there with Read. Now, the girlfriend says, after
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that group left, she went upand confronted Read right there in front of
Janet and had a little bit ofa scene. They had a little bit
of an argument, you know,kind of something along the lines, what
are you doing with this girl?I thought we were supposed to be together.
Really, you're doing this right infront of my face, that kind
of thing. And to add insultto injury, I guess Read at that
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point decided to leave with Janet.The two of them left the club at
that point. Remember Janet was leftthe car by her brother and friends,
and so Janet drove Read back tohis place. The girlfriend decided to stay
at the club the Port of Callfor about one more hour and then went
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home herself to her apartment, which, as far as I understand was in
an apartment building where Carolinian employees andemployees from some other hotels on the beach
basically provided discounted rates to their employeesto stay there during the season while they're
working there at the hotel. It'sa it's a way to have quarters,
(18:26):
room and board essentially without having toactually purchase a full price apartment for the
whole summer. Here's something that thehotel has already set up, which is
kind of cool. And I believeReid also lived in one of these units,
but not in the same building.That was kind of hard to get
info on, but I don't thinkit matters too much. But the girlfriend
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claimed that when she got back toher place, Reid was there waiting for
her. They started fighting some more. They resumed the argument picked up basically
where they left off from the firstone at the club, although this one
seemed to be more initiated by Reid, who had gone over there to basically
yell at her for causing a sceneat the Porto Call and embarrassing him.
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There were other people there that theyknew, so just kind of a bad
look for him, and he wasupset about it. And then after they
fought a little bit. She claimsthat Reid went home to his place and
she went to bed. Of course, she claimed that she had absolutely no
knowledge of Janet's murder. She neversaw her again after Janet and Reid left
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the Porto call Now. The nextday, Janet c Clari's autopsy report was
delivered. It was confirmed that Janetwas sexually assaulted. Seaman was found inside
her, and she had defensive wounds, suggesting that she was resisting an attack.
There was nothing to determine whether ornot this was the same event.
There could have been two separate events, or it could have been all on
(20:00):
attack. But given the fact thatthe attack or attacks would have had to
occur between two thirty am, whenJanet came into the room to get a
cigarette and when the sanitation worker foundher on the beach when the sun had
been up, it just seems unlikely, given her proximity to the hotel,
that two different attackers would have beeninvolved in that short period of time,
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but I guess they couldn't rule itout. Janet had been stabbed several times
before having her throat cut, whichwas the final fatal wound, but unfortunately
it wasn't anything instantaneous. It wasn'ta deep enough cut to just kill Janet
straight away. She bled out fromher neck and it may have taken quite
(20:45):
a long time. Presumably this iswhy Janet was found clutching her own shorts
to her neck wound, trying tostop the bleeding, which is really just
a sad and depressing image. Theforensic examiner concluded that Janet's time of death
was probably around four am, soit's possible that it's only bled out for
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twenty minutes. It's also possible thatshe bled out for over an hour.
Pretty grim. Next up for theinvestigators, as you can probably guess,
is Read Powell. They brought Readdown to the station, and of course
Read knew exactly why. By thistime, the news had circulated throughout the
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community, particularly throughout the Carolinian andother employees of the Beach Town bars and
whatnot, you know, people whowere living in the housing that was provided
by some of these businesses. LeadDetective Tom Gilliam noticed that Read seemed particularly
nervous and agitated, and you know, that could be fair. After all,
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he was, you know, probablyassuming that he was the last person
to have seen Janet and that's alwaysa tough look. But he claims that
he had nothing to do with it, and that after Janet dropped him off
at his home, what he haddone was he grabbed a snack and headed
over to his girlfriend's house to confronther about the scene she made at the
(22:19):
bar that night. Now that soundsin line with exactly what the girlfriend said,
but there's a bit of a wrinklehere, and that is this part
where Reid tells the investigators that thesnack that he grabbed was a stick of
pepperoni and a steak knife. Hetook this with him and sat there in
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his car waiting for his girlfriend toreturn from the bar, and he was
just cutting off chunks of pepperoni andeating them with a knife. He also
claims that as he sat there eatinghis snack, he saw Janet again.
He watched her actually come out ofthe parking lot where she would have parked
(23:03):
the car at the hotel and walkedup the ramp from that parking lot area
to the hotel, and he watchedher walk inside. So we've got read
now admitting to having a knife andsitting in his car watching Janet walk into
the hotel. That's not a greatlook, am I right? One thing
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that could be working in Brad's favor, though, is that the investigators hadn't
divulged any of the facts about Janet'sautopsy or how she had died. No
one really knew whether she had beenstrangled or stabbed, slashed shot. They
just knew that she was murdered,and they were not aware that there was
(23:52):
a sexual assault either, So Reidcould have just been telling the truth and
innocently brought up having that knife couldalmost work in his favor in that way,
do you know what I mean?Because if he were the killer and
knew that he stabbed her with aknife, he's probably not going to mention
that he's hanging out with a knife. But I don't know, maybe that's
just me. In any event,he denied any involvement in the murder,
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of course, and then he agreedto surrender a DNA sample, which the
investigators would then use to compare tothe semen sample uncovered during Janet's autopsy.
The DNA sample did not match thesemen sample taken from Janet's a Clari's autopsy.
Reid Powell was free to go fornow. Apologies by the way if
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you can hear any sounds in thebackground that sound like airplanes for some reason,
I guess it's because of the holidays, But there is a plane flying
overhead every two minutes while I'm doingthis, so I'm hoping it's not picking
up. If it is, Iapologize. Maybe it'll give it sort of
a drony beach sound in the backgroundthat will actually work for this episode.
(25:03):
I don't know. Fingers crossed.Now, it's August here and we're in
the outer banks of the Carolinas.That's prime hurricane season. And sure enough,
remember nineteen ninety three, this iswhen Hurricane Emily blows onto the scene
and required evacuations all down the Eastcoast in various places, Nag's Head in
(25:29):
particular, all tourists, all peoplerenting homes for the season, all the
hotel guests had to evacuate, hadto leave. And that's sort of a
unique blow to the investigators here,because does that mean all of their suspects
are going to be gone? Doesthat mean the perpetrator is going to get
out of here? You know,they're not going to be checking for people
(25:52):
leaving. They need more time tolock down a suspect before everyone just skidaddles,
potential witnesses, potential suspects. Youknow, everyone's evacuating. What does
this mean for the investigation going forward? It could make things pretty difficult.
Now before Robert ceclari and the groupof mutual friends that had all come down
(26:15):
to this vacation from New Jersey,before they evacuate along with everyone else,
the investigators just have to talk tosome of the mutual friends. They've spoken
with Robert already. But is thereanything else that these girlfriends of Janet can
tell them? And not really,except there was one man that seemed to
(26:36):
raise some red flags for the group, for the women in particular, this
cabana attendant who was working at thehotel who would sort of leer at Janet
when they were out on the beachduring the days. He would just sort
of stare at her and give herlittle eyebrow raises and stuff, you know,
kind of looking at her body,and you know that's going to make
(26:57):
anyone uncomfortable. This guy then cameup and asked her out one day,
and she said that she didn't thinkthat was appropriate with him working there and
whatnot, Probably anything to just gethim to stop. Obviously he was a
creep and Janet's being polite. Butthat last night, that Friday night before
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Janet was murdered at the same dinnerthat they had at the hotel, when
the waitress girlfriend of Reid Powell supposedlygave Janet the stink eye. That same
night, the cabana boy saw themhaving dinner in the restaurant and came through
and laid a rose in front ofJanet's you know, in front of Janet
(27:38):
on the table, and kissed heron the cheek. What is that?
I mean, that has to bea fireable offense, right an employee can't
just go up and kiss someone andlay a rose there. It's just insane
behavior for anyone, let alone anemployee of the estabtism. But supposedly Janet
(28:03):
just ignored it and was polite aboutit. She was that way, and
it does sound like that. Itsounds like she drove men crazy. These
guys are all acting a fool over. But the detectives, after they identified
this man, they ran a backgroundcheck on him and found that he had
done some time in prison. Whatfor, you guessed it? Stabbing?
(28:26):
He stabbed his own brother and wentto prison for it. So yeah,
they brought him down to the stationfor some questioning, and look, he
admitted that he fancied Janet, wasvery attracted to her. He claimed that
he thought it was mutual that theywere vibing and giving each other looks.
I guess he misread those signs,if there were any signs at all.
(28:49):
He also had a weak alibi,claimed he was just asleep in his apartment,
which, you know, I say, it's a weak alibi. It's
you know, what most of ouralibi would be for most nights out of
the week, right, But didn'treally have anyone that could corroborate where he
was essentially, so not a strongalibi. But he complied with surrendering a
(29:14):
DNA sample as well, and itdid not match. So at this point,
Hurricane Emily is at full strength,just ripping apart the beaches. There's
mass exodus. It's hard to keeptrack of who's leaving town again. Has
the killer left? Have prime witnessesleft? What are we doing? Our
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investigation is completely compromised here. Thehotel itself is wrecked and takes damage.
It's just a big mess over there. But the investigators do get a little
bit more information from outside the area. They can't work the case from there
at Nag's head, but they doget some information from a call from outside,
(30:00):
and that is from Janet Sclarie's motherand wanted to make them aware of
Janet's ex lover, Frank, whohad a violent passed. Janet's mother claimed
that Janet had told her that shefeared that Frank could get violent if they
ever broke up, and they hadbroken up. Janet was single now on
(30:22):
this trip, so the mother naturallyfeared that, well, maybe this was
Frank. Janet did fear that hecould be violent and had of temper.
He had also done time in prisonhimself, did a five year stint as
an accessory to murder. He wasinvolved in a biker gang for a long
time, and I guess someone inhis biker gang had shot and killed someone.
(30:45):
He was involved somehow and did afive year stint in prison. So
obviously investigators are going to need totalk to Frank. And Frank told the
police that actually, no, Iwoke up with Janet and we had an
amicable separation. There was no hostilityand everything was fine. In fact,
(31:08):
she had invited me to go onthe Nag's head trip, but I couldn't
make it, so we were cool. And Frank actually has the best alibi
of all because on the night ofJanet's murder, he was still in New
Jersey being treated at a hospital fora workplace injury, so he had the
rock solid alibi. And Janet's mother'sphone call was much ado about nothing,
(31:33):
unfortunately for the investigation. So really, between solid alibis and samples that don't
match the rape kit on Janet's autopsy, the investigators are out of suspects,
They've got no more leads, andJanet's Acclarie's murder case goes cold. The
(32:08):
brutal murder of Janet Saclari rocked herown family as well as the Nag's head
community. However, with no leadsfor the investigators to work with, and
with Hurricane Emily having ruined the opportunityto get statements from potential witnesses or even
suspects, Janet's case file and allof the evidence containers collect dusts sitting on
(32:31):
the shelves in an evidence room,apart from a simple lookover once a year
from some disinterested lackey. But duringthis four year stretch, something pretty big
happens in the world of crime solving, in the world of forensic sciences,
and that is the development of theCODIS system. It was developed in this
(32:57):
time period. COTIS, as weall know now because it's so commonly used
in a lot of these cases wetalk about, is the Combined DNA Index
system. That is that massive DNAdatabase where police can simply enter a DNA
sample into CODUS and it can geta match. From all these different states
(33:19):
we are now sharing their databases.It's basically just linking all of the DNA
databases together makes it much easier tocompare samples across state lines, across the
country. It was just a huge, huge catalyst for crime solving. Now,
when individuals enter the justice system orenter the prison system really and are
(33:40):
incarcerated, they surrender DNA samples ifthey haven't already, and then cold case
detectives can from time to time entersamples from their old cases and sometimes they'll
get a match. Because it's possiblethat someone that you know, say,
rape someone in nineteen eight or rapedand murdered someone in nineteen ninety, might
(34:05):
do it again and then get arrestedfor it later have to give up a
sample and suddenly you have a sampleyou can compare it to instantaneously, essentially
with cotis. And that's exactly whathappens here. The disinterested lackey that I
mentioned doing the annual review this timearound says, well, I've got codis.
Now, I think I'll take thisDNA sample here from the rape kit
(34:25):
and pop that in cotis and boom, he gets a match. And the
owner of the sample that it matchesto is not at all far away.
It's a man in prison just aboutan hour outside of Nag's Head. Investigators
(34:46):
travel to the prison to interview theman behind the match. That man is
named Thomas Jaben Barry, and Barryis locked up for sexual halt. Now,
(35:09):
when the investigators for Janet's case meetwith Thomas Berry, he first denies
it completely. I have no ideawhat you're talking about. No, I
can't remember any rape of some womanat Nag's Head. No, yeah,
like I from the area, butno, I don't remember anything like that.
(35:30):
Completely denies it. Then, whenthey confront him with the DNA match
through codis, changes his story alittle bit and says, well, I
mean that's not that weird. Ihad sex with all kinds of women on
the beaches of the Outer Banks.You know, this was what I was
(35:51):
doing in those days. I wouldjust hang out on the outer Banks in
the summertime, smoke joints, drink, hang out with chicks. That's Thomas
Berry. Now, I had shakeswith a lot of people on the beach.
I wouldn't have had any idea,you know if we met that way
and then just started walking and talkingand one thing led to another. I've
had that happen several times in mylife. As a matter of fact,
(36:16):
my first wife and I met thatway. Gross. You see, Old
Thomas Berry was a commercial fisherman inthose days, and on his days off,
he liked to party, and hepartied on the beaches and he did.
He liked going to bars, heliked drinking on the beach. He
liked smoking weed, and he alsoliked smoking crack. Especially in ninety two,
(36:40):
ninety three, ninety four, thiswas a big thing for Tom Barry.
In August of ninety three, thetime when Thomas would have encountered Janet,
he was heavily smoking crack, hangingout on the beaches of nags Head.
He did have a girlfriend at thetime, and he was out on
parole at the time, having previouslybeen incarcerated for the statutory rape of a
(37:06):
twelve year old girl. She wouldn'tdo if she was fourteen. I got
the paperwork in there, but orshe was thirteen going on fourteen or something
like that. But no, itwas all consensual. Don't even think we
need to throw the words statutory inthere. At that point, Thomas Barry
(37:27):
was thrown back in prison for failinga UA failing a drug test for his
parole officer. Again, he wasconstantly smoking pot, smoking crack on all
sorts of drugs. Not supposed tobe doing that when you're on parole.
That's what landed him back in theslammer. That's when he had to surrender
a DNA profile and that is whatgot the match to the DNA from the
(37:51):
rape kit and Janet's Clari's autopsy.But Tom is sticking to his story here.
Yeah, I kind of remember meetingher. Yeah, it was pretty
we hung out, we had sexon the beach. I'm a casanova.
This was my thing. Man.I had to have had sex with Janet.
I mean that's obvious from the DNA, but it would have been consensual
(38:12):
and there was no I would havenever killed nobody. I'd never kill anybody.
But Thomas doesn't realize is that Janet'sautopsy conclusively proved that a rape had
taken place, that the sex wasn'tconsensual, that there was damage done to
Janet, And given the fact thatJanet had likely died at four am and
(38:35):
had seen her brother at about twothirty AM when she was grabbing a cigarette,
that's an hour and a half windowfor her to be sexually assaulted by
one person and then murdered by another. That's a pretty short window to have
two separate attacks. So in away, at the very least, Thomas
Barry is confessing to raping Janet,but it's pretty damning that she was stabbed
(39:00):
and murdered in that window. Sothings aren't looking so good for old Nagshead
Tom. After their initial visit withThomas Jabin Barry, the investigators traveled to
Engleheart, Carolina, where Thomas wasfrom, and they made up with Tom's
ex girlfriend just to get some background, and she told them that at the
(39:24):
time of Janet's murder, Tom hadbeen staying with her with the ex girlfriend
at her place and that in thosedays he always carried his fishing knife with
him on his belt. He hada violent temper. He would lash out
and often sort of threatened to grabthe knife. It was like sort of
(39:44):
a muscle memory reflex thing he woulddo when he was being hostile or getting
in a fight or something. Itwould be like putting her hand on the
holster of a gun or something.Just way Lamor and the ex girlfriend said,
Look, he was absolutely capable ofthis huge history of sexual assault,
that's for sure. And in theframe of mind he was all the time
(40:07):
back then, constantly high, constantlydrunk, you know, essentially walking around
the beaches as a predator. It'sentirely plausible that he could have killed someone.
So pretty damning stuff there again forOld Nag's head, Tom, the
investigators obviously look into his criminal background, and Old Thomas Jabin Barry had nearly
(40:30):
a dozen sexual assaults on his record, again, some of them miners,
and one where Thomas was accused ofraping a young lady on one of the
beaches of the Outer Banks. Beforethe investigators left Thomas Jabin Barry's ex girlfriend's
house, they showed her one morething. They showed her some photographs of
(40:52):
the pair of shoes, the whitesneakers that I told you about that had
the gray tube socks ufed into them. They showed her some pictures of these
and she said, he, Yep, those are the shoes that he used
to rock at the time. Thoseare the same sort of socks he would
wear. Looks exactly like what heused to walk around in when I knew
(41:16):
him in nineteen ninety three. Andsome forensic testing was done on these shoes
as well. There weren't just photographstaken for me. This kind of sticks
up a red flag for junk science. But apparently this forensic examiner named Robert
(41:37):
Kennedy took the shoes and cut themopen and was able to take foot impressions
from the inside of the shoe.You know, as you wear a shoe,
your heat and sweat from your feetwill sort of wear a impression into
the sole of the shoe into theon the inside. So if you cut
(41:59):
the top off, you can lookdown at this impression. And then they
took an impression of Thomas Javin Barry'sfoot and we're able to find a match.
They said, it was like aperfect match. There's a Forensic Files
episode on this case where they gointo more detail about it if you're curious
(42:20):
about that. But yeah, itkind of looks like it matches to me.
But it's sort of along the linesof bite mark evidence, where in
most cases you can find a wayto get the teeth to match the teeth
marks. Most human teeth kind offit the same pattern, same with feet,
right, So I'm not sure howmuch stock I put into that.
Forensic Files makes it sound like that'swhat cracked the case, but it's not
(42:45):
what cracked the case. What crackedthe case was the DNA. What cracked
the case was the ex girlfriend identifyingthe shoes. What crack the case was
Nag's head Tom and his history ofsexual violence on the beaches of the Outer
Banks. He still denies it tothis day. He's never going to admit
(43:08):
it. He just says that theyhad consensual sex and that was the end
of it. Maybe he left hisshoes behind because he was so drunken high
he forgot about them. He doesn'teven know if those are his shoes,
YadA, YadA, YadA, Andmaybe it couldn't really be proven. You
(43:30):
could argue that a lot of thisis circumstantial. Yes, there's the match.
Yes, it's likely that he rapedJanet. Can you prove that he
killed her? I guess not.I wasn't able to find anything about them
looking for the knife, maybe tryingto test his knife against some of Janet's
wounds. Perhaps he had long gottenrid of that knife. Anyway, how
(43:51):
are you ever going to find itor nowhere to look? Right? In
any event, the twelve people onthe jury for this case did not need
any real concrete physical evidence that ThomasJabin Barry murder Janet cclari. They convicted
him no problem, and in nineteenninety nine, Old Nag's head Tom was
(44:13):
sentenced to back to back life sentencesfor the rape and murder of thirty five
year old Janet cclari. Rest inpeace, Janet, But it leaves us
with the well will hop um,Here's what I think. Robert cclari says
(44:35):
that around two am, Janet hadcome into the room for cigarettes and he
may have heard someone else. Okay, Now, Janet and Robert's hotel room
was at the end of a hallwayclosest to the beach, and if you
left their room you could actually takean exit that led to an outdoor stairwell
(44:59):
that went to directly down to thebeach, so Janet didn't have to go
down and out through the hotel lobbyand then around to get to the beach
just to go smoke a cigarette.Right, So when Reid Powell had been
sitting in his car and watched Janetcome into the hotel, she came in
that way. She never came outthat way. She would go back down
(45:22):
because they had this conveniently placed room. She would just go back down the
stairwell onto the beach, have hercigarette, nightcap, and come back up
the stairs and go to sleep.Or she would sometimes apparently smoke on the
stairwell. So a couple of thingscould have happened. One maybe old nagshead
(45:43):
Tom with his knife and his boot, saw Janet coming into the hotel and
said, hey, what's happening,pretty lady? You want to have a
cigarette together? Something like that.I don't know. Maybe she thought he
seemed non threatening, seemed handsome.She was in already mood, didn't get
to go home with Reid. Maybeshe said, yeah, I'll have a
cigarette with you. I got togo up to my hotel. He gets
(46:06):
some more though, let me runup to the room here, and maybe
he came with her. Maybe Robertc. Clary was right that he did
hear some whispering in the background.Maybe it was Tom tom Berry, or
maybe he stayed down on the beachand waited for Janet. Maybe he wasn't
there yet. Maybe she came upand got the cigarettes, came down to
the beach and was smoking them,and then old Nag said, Tom crack
(46:30):
addled and drank addled, stumbled uponher on the beach and then said,
Hey, what's happening, pretty lady? I want to share one of those
cigarettes with me. Either way,he encountered her there at some point,
and eventually he probably made some drunkenand drug addled pass at her and she
(46:52):
either refused or he didn't give herthe option to refuse or accept and just
forced himself on her. Now youwould imagine, based on the personality of
Janet, the descriptions people have toldof her and her defensive wounds, that
she use a fighter. But rememberOld Nags said, Tom's got a knife
(47:15):
in his boot, right, andit's possible that he just told her,
you know, you scream, I'mgoing to stab you, so let me
rape you in peace. I'm goingto hold this knife to your throat and
I'm going to force myself on you, and I'm going to rape you.
And oh god, it's gross togo through it. But you know,
(47:37):
then when he finished, he killedher, so she couldn't identify him.
What's he gonna do? He's he'snow raped, he had another person on
the beach. He's already on parole, he's high on drugs. I think
he just killed her because he felthe had to. We know that Janet
(47:57):
died after the rape. He wasprobably long gone by then, so I
don't think she died in the attackwhile it was happening. I don't think
he needed to stab her and slither throat as he was raping her.
I think it was simply a meansto an end for him. I've got
what I wanted, but now Ican't risk getting caught, and so he
killed her. The sad irony ofit is, of course, he told
(48:20):
her probably not to scream and thenI won't stab you. And they needed
it anyway. Discovered the next morningthe way that she was clutching her own
denim shorts to the gaping wound inher neck. From which she bled out
and her thirty five years on thisearth came to an end. As for
(48:43):
the shoes, old Nag's head,Tom, old drug addled, Tom might
have just left them there because heforgot him, and he was so panicked
to get out of there, hejust ran off. Maybe he thought the
footprints from the shoes would identify himor something, they would get footprint track.
I don't think he's that bright orwould even be thinking that way,
So I think he was just ina hurry and drugged out and forgot him.
(49:09):
Thomas Jabin Barry still sits in prisontoday serving out those back to back
life sentences for what he did toJanet and really for what he did to
all those other women and young girls. Thomas Jabin Barry is not a myth,
and he's not even pirate lower ThomasJabin Barry. He's a monster,
(49:34):
But he's similar to that old piratesong right about Tom and the knife in
his boot. Similar because you know, fair maidens stay inside, fathers,
keep your daughters inside. They're outthere. They're out there on the beach.
They might rape and murder you.Sometimes it's not Read Powell, the
guy from the club. Sometimes it'snot the cabana boy. Sometimes it's not
(49:59):
the ex boyfriend or your brother oryour lover. Sometimes it's just Thomas Jaben
Barry walking down the beach and you'rein the wrong place, wrong time.
All right, folks, I hopeyou enjoyed our story today, Old Nag's
(50:22):
Head Tom. I know it wasa little bit of a different style from
me. Might get some more ofthis going forward. I kind of like
having a more conversational tone. Justbeen going back and listening to some of
the old narratives and they feel alittle too dry sometimes. So you'll let
me know. I always appreciate yourfeedback. Leave some comments below. If
(50:42):
this is on YouTube where you're checkingthis out, or any podcast app really,
you can leave comments, or youcan write reviews. Let us know.
You can always email me Darkworldpod atgmail dot com. You can hit
us up on the socials. Loveto hear the feedback, Love to hear
anything you got for me. Imentioned the Apple reviews. If you haven't
(51:05):
done one, it really helps theshow out. So if you could take
a minute to leave us a review, if you're enjoying the program, that
goes a long way, and Ireally appreciate it. I'm going to be
back next time with a part twointerview with Laura Brand, Private Investigator,
Toolbox Killers Expert, and we're goingto talk about her documentary that was finally
(51:30):
made. And I last interviewed Laurabefore the documentary was made. Now it's
been made, I've seen it,checked it out, and we're going to
do a follow up talking about whatshe feels she achieved from it, what
needs to be done still, whatsome of the reception was, and I'm
gonna throw her some questions and commentsfrom you all so she can hear from
(51:53):
you as well. But I thinkthat's it for me. Gonna go ahead
and give Kaylee kay another shout outbecause this is the more proper episode in
which to do that. Kaylee isour newest patron. Thank you so much,
Kaylee, double shout out for youhere. The Christmas special was sort
(52:15):
of a phone in in a way, So thank you so much again,
and thank you to each and everyone of you who continue to listen and
support and comment and interact. Youmean the world to me. Thanks for
keeping me going with this. Sothat's it from me. Gang, Be
safe and be kind. See thepu
Dark Dark World contains strong language anddepictions of sex violence and sexual violence.
Please use discretion when listening to ourepisodes. So here's something you probably don't
know about me. I don't knowwhy you would, but I'm kind of
(00:20):
into pirates, always have been,really. When I was a kid,
I was fascinated with this sort ofabridged edition of Treasure Island by Robert Lewis
Stevenson. It was abridged, asI say, and it was illustrated,
and I used to love to lookat that thing all the time. Loved
(00:42):
the Treasure Island movie. When Iwas a kid, the black Spot thing
used to terrify me. It wasabsolutely petrified of the black Spot thing,
if you know, you know.And then later in life as an adult,
I read Kidnapped and Treasure Island theactual you know, the full versions,
(01:04):
the proper novels, and found thatknow, these books kick ass in
their full version as well, andfound them just as compelling. As an
adult, I've always just been intopirate lore. I can sit and watch
a pirate doc if it's well made, and there are many of them.
I know. There are some pirateshows like Black Sales and stuff, which
(01:29):
I actually haven't explored, don't knowtoo much about those, but anyway,
Yeah, I'm pretty into pirates,and I especially like old piratey lore that
ties into real places, you know, sort of myths and old fables that
(01:49):
certain cities or towns tell about abouttheir past, which may or may not
be true. And I've sort ofgott an example of that today because the
case that I'm bringing you today takesplace in the Outer Banks of North Carolina,
popular tourist destination, vacationers, beachtowns, you know that whole vibe.
(02:15):
I've never been to the Outer Banks, actually, but I know people
who are big fans and vacation therefrequently. And our story today takes place
specifically in a beach town in theOuter Banks called Nag's Head. And Nag's
Head, as maybe you have guessed, has its own fair share of pirate
(02:38):
lore. The Outer Banks in generalwere often ransacked by pirates back in the
day, and that's not really lower, that's not myth, that is factual,
but there are also legends. Nag'sHead has pirate legends which may or
may not be true. I'm goingto read to you now about a little
(03:00):
bit of Nag's Head pirate lore fromthe Outer Bank's official tourism website. I
quote the legend of Nag's Head takesus back to days of on land piracy,
when tails drifted ashore about the wonderfultreasures traveling at sea being plundered by
(03:23):
rogue businessmen like Blackbeard. That oneof the original Outer Bankers got the inspiration
which brought about the equine moniker.A lantern was tied around the neck of
an old gentle horse, and thenthis old nag was let up and down
the tallest of the sand dunes,Jockey's Ridge, so that the light shone
(03:44):
out to sea. As a ship'scaptain saw this gently bobbing light, it
seemed to be from a ship ridingat anchor in a sheltered harbor. As
the captain tried to put into thissafe harbor, his ship would pile up
on the treacherous shoals that constantly writheand change shape beneath the surface. The
(04:05):
land pirates made the crew walk theplank, looted and burned the hapless ship,
and made away with the bounty.End quote. And as is often
the case with old pirate lower,there are the tales of rape and pillage,
shipwrecked pirates, land pirates, drunkenlyroaming the beaches trying to get their
(04:29):
hands on any loot they could.Passers by needed to be alert, keeping
their eyes peeled, their pockets tight. Fathers, keep your daughters safe.
Young maidens. Stay off the beachesat night, in the wee hours of
the morning, with only the moonto light the sand and water. The
(04:49):
stumbling pirate tires of jewels and coin. Old nagshead Tom has designs on you,
fair maid. The only loot willsatisfy now hides under your frily skirts
from an old c shanty. Iquote, Tom's got a big sharp knife
(05:10):
in his boot, and he's goingto use it to get his loot.
End quote. Just old timey piratelore, though a maybe maybe so.
But what if I told you thatour story today takes place in nineteen ninety
three, that an unsuspecting fair maidenis raped and murdered while merely vacationing on
(05:38):
the outer banks. And if Itold you that sometimes it's not what it
so often is. An ex lover, a boyfriend, a partner, a
spouse, not a jealous friend ora co worker, not a robbery gone
wrong, that in the wee hoursof the morning, a drunken sailor is
(06:00):
no longer satisfied by drink and drugand turns his focus to something else.
You know, he's got a bigsharp knife in his boot and all that.
Then maybe then you'd believe that Nag'sHead Tom is more, much more
(06:24):
than old pirate Lower. Hello,listeners, welcome back to another show.
I'm your host Jordan Crittenden and thisis Dark Dark World, Episode thirty one,
Nag's Head Tom. In August ofnineteen ninety three, a thirty five
(07:15):
year old ultrasound technician from Arlington,New Jersey named Janet Zacclarie went on vacation
to Nag's Head, a small beachtown on the outer banks of the Carolinas.
Janet went along with her brother Robert, and a couple of mutual friends.
The group checked into a hotel calledthe Carolinian and enjoyed their time on
(07:39):
the beach as they'd done many timesbefore. One Friday night on that August
trip, after a dinner at thehotel, the group of friends went out
to a club, had some drinks, danced, had a good time in
town. Janet's brother Robert and themutual friend decided to leave early and head
(08:01):
back to the hotel, but Janetwanted a little more time out. She
was single again after all, andthere were still a couple acute guys left
here at the bar. The groupleft the car with Janet and took a
cab back to the Carolinian. Ataround two thirty am on Saturday morning,
(08:22):
Robert Zaklari, sleeping in his hotelroom, woke to some rustling sounds in
the darkened room. He could justmake out Janet digging into a purse.
She told him not to worry,she was just getting some cigarettes. Robert
thought maybe he heard voices just outsidethe room, but wasn't sure. He
(08:45):
fell back asleep. After the sunhad come up. Later that morning,
a sanitation worker cleaning up the beachfor the Carolinian made a gruesome discovery.
There on the sandy beach, onlyten yards down from the hotel, lay
the dead body of a young woman, curled up in a half fetal position
(09:11):
and naked from below the waist.She was clutching her own white Denham shorts
to her neck, where her throathad been split. Not long after this
discovery, Assistant District Attorney Robert Trevette, received a phone call and was told
that he'd better come down to thebeach. When he arrived at the scene,
(09:33):
Ada Trevette, along with lead DetectiveTom Gilliam, examined the body.
She was lying on her side insort of a half fetal position. She
had on the top, but shedidn't have on anything below the waist,
and then she was actually clutching hershorts up next to her neck near where
her throat had been cut, andit was apparent to me that she had
(09:58):
died trying to stop the bleeding thispiece of clothing. It was hard to
say just how many wounds the victimhad suffered, but there were several stab
and slash wounds. She was coveredin blood. Initially she couldn't be identified,
but it was assumed that she wasa tourist because of the proximity to
the hotel. Investigators walking around thearea collected some cigarette butts and discarded beer
(10:24):
cans near the body. They alsofound something a bit more out of the
ordinary. Not five feet from thebody were a pair of white sneakers with
gray socks tucked inside them. Atthis time, a distraught Robert Sclary came
running down to the beach screaming,shouting that his sister Janet hadn't slept in
(10:46):
her bed last night, and whenhe looked out the window and saw the
police, he feared the worst.Robert was right to fear the worst.
As he came upon the scene,he recognized his sister Janet instantly. After
(11:16):
he was able to gather himself abit more, Robert cclary went down to
the police station with Ada, RobertTrivette, and Tom Gilliam, the lead
detective. They wanted to interview Robertfirst because, as far as they knew,
he was the last person to seehis sister Janet alive. Now,
Robert Clary told the investigators about thenight before. When he remembered early in
(11:39):
the morning Janet coming in for acigarette. He was groggy and sort of
half asleep, but he couldn't besure. He thought he heard some whispering.
Thought it might have been some oftheir other friends, but he wasn't
sure. Now having talked to theother friends, they said, no,
they weren't with Janet. The lasttime they saw her was when they left
the bar. She was someone else. Was she on her own? Just
(12:03):
what happened to Janet after they leftthe bar. Robert couldn't provide those answers.
He could only let the investigators knowthat Janet had come into the room
at what he thinks was about twothirty and said she was getting cigarettes.
And this wouldn't have been unusual forJanet. She'd liked to have a cigarette
before bed, and it was typicalfor her to go out of the hotel
(12:24):
down onto the beach to smoke acigarette as sort of a nightcap, and
then come back in and go tobed. But Robert Ceclari was starting to
form some suspicions of his own.He said that there were two men sort
of giving Janet the eye, givingher lots of attention at that club that
they were at the night before,and this was the Porto Call nightclub,
(12:48):
which still stands there today as faras I understand. And the investigators told
Robert that his suspicions were probably wellfounded. But let's back up just a
little bit. Tell us about theday, tell us about out your Friday
with your sister. And Robert explainedthat essentially they were just at the beach
hanging out all day, as theyhad been most of the week, at
(13:09):
seven pm, they had dinner thereat the hotel at the Carolinian. At
dinner, Robert mentioned that he hadcomplained about his food and got sort of
a hostile, angry reaction from thewaitress, and then the waitress sort of
gave Janet the stink eye on Robert'sbehalf. This could just be Robert looking
(13:31):
for anything and everything that might possiblybe tied to the death of his sister,
and it's hard to blame him.Seems unlikely to me right off the
bat here that a waitress giving Janetthe stink eye about her brother complaining about
his food being cold or whatever thecomplaint was, suddenly murders her with a
knife on the beach. After thedinner, they do go to the Porto
(13:56):
Call nightclub, and it was thereat the club that, along with the
group of friends and her brother,Robert met up with another man, read
Powell, who was a local bartenderthat Janet had met earlier in the week,
and he sort of continued to hangout with the group throughout the week
off and on when he wasn't workingor when he was available. Now,
(14:18):
Robert told the investigators that Reid,who was aged thirty was very much Janet's
type, you know, sort ofrugged, outdoorsy guy, tan skin,
beach dude, ruggedly handsome, youknow the guy. But so he's there,
everyone's hanging out, having a goodtime at the Porto Call, there's
(14:39):
dancing, drinks are flowing, andthen, believe it or not, snarky
waitress from the hotel arrives at theclub, and Robert thought that she seemed
pretty put off by Janet flirting withReid Powell. And it just so happened
that the waitress was the sort ofon again, off again girlfriend of Reid
(15:01):
Powell. So now you add thatpiece of information with the stink eye at
dinner. Maybe I don't know thatwe're close enough to stabbing yet, but
definitely worth noting right now. ReidPowell himself didn't seem phased at all by
his sort of ex girlfriend, currentgirlfriend, mutual acquaintance, whatever he would
(15:24):
refer to her, as he didnot seem to upset that she seemed upset
and jealous, sort of glaring athim from across the club or whatever she
was doing. And Read and Janetcontinued to hang out. They kept dancing,
they kept sitting next to each other, at the bar, and you
know, as the night moved on. As I mentioned earlier, Janet's friends
(15:48):
and her brother Robert said they hadhad enough. They were going to go
home and go back to the hotel, but Janet wanted to stay with Reid,
and when they parted ways they're atthe club. Was the last time
that Robert c clary saw his sisterJanet until that weird, sort of groggy
wake up a few hours later intothe early morning. Janet had come back
(16:11):
into the room again at a roundtwo thirty am, and Robert was asleep
in the bed. Janet came intothe room, she got her cigarettes and
then definitely did leave again. Andas I mentioned before, he assumed that
she was just going out to haveher customary cigarette on the beach before bed.
Nothing unusual. So next the investigatorsgo and speak with the girlfriend of
(16:33):
Reid Powell. Seems like a logicalplace to go next, right, She
admitted, Look, I was jealous. Yes, I was at the club
last night. She didn't remember givinganyone a stink guy or having any issue
at the hotel restaurant where she wasworking, but she did admit to being
at the club, and she didadmit to being jealous about it. She
(16:56):
said that she and Reid had avery complicated relationship. It was on again,
off again, and she didn't likethe way that he was there flirting
with Janet. She was even moreforthcoming and it was able to give some
more information about what happened after RobertCeclari and the mutual friends had left the
club and left Janet there with Read. Now, the girlfriend says, after
(17:18):
that group left, she went upand confronted Read right there in front of
Janet and had a little bit ofa scene. They had a little bit
of an argument, you know,kind of something along the lines, what
are you doing with this girl?I thought we were supposed to be together.
Really, you're doing this right infront of my face, that kind
of thing. And to add insultto injury, I guess Read at that
(17:42):
point decided to leave with Janet.The two of them left the club at
that point. Remember Janet was leftthe car by her brother and friends,
and so Janet drove Read back tohis place. The girlfriend decided to stay
at the club the Port of Callfor about one more hour and then went
(18:03):
home herself to her apartment, which, as far as I understand was in
an apartment building where Carolinian employees andemployees from some other hotels on the beach
basically provided discounted rates to their employeesto stay there during the season while they're
working there at the hotel. It'sa it's a way to have quarters,
(18:26):
room and board essentially without having toactually purchase a full price apartment for the
whole summer. Here's something that thehotel has already set up, which is
kind of cool. And I believeReid also lived in one of these units,
but not in the same building.That was kind of hard to get
info on, but I don't thinkit matters too much. But the girlfriend
(18:48):
claimed that when she got back toher place, Reid was there waiting for
her. They started fighting some more. They resumed the argument picked up basically
where they left off from the firstone at the club, although this one
seemed to be more initiated by Reid, who had gone over there to basically
yell at her for causing a sceneat the Porto Call and embarrassing him.
(19:12):
There were other people there that theyknew, so just kind of a bad
look for him, and he wasupset about it. And then after they
fought a little bit. She claimsthat Reid went home to his place and
she went to bed. Of course, she claimed that she had absolutely no
knowledge of Janet's murder. She neversaw her again after Janet and Reid left
(19:36):
the Porto call Now. The nextday, Janet c Clari's autopsy report was
delivered. It was confirmed that Janetwas sexually assaulted. Seaman was found inside
her, and she had defensive wounds, suggesting that she was resisting an attack.
There was nothing to determine whether ornot this was the same event.
There could have been two separate events, or it could have been all on
(20:00):
attack. But given the fact thatthe attack or attacks would have had to
occur between two thirty am, whenJanet came into the room to get a
cigarette and when the sanitation worker foundher on the beach when the sun had
been up, it just seems unlikely, given her proximity to the hotel,
that two different attackers would have beeninvolved in that short period of time,
(20:22):
but I guess they couldn't rule itout. Janet had been stabbed several times
before having her throat cut, whichwas the final fatal wound, but unfortunately
it wasn't anything instantaneous. It wasn'ta deep enough cut to just kill Janet
straight away. She bled out fromher neck and it may have taken quite
(20:45):
a long time. Presumably this iswhy Janet was found clutching her own shorts
to her neck wound, trying tostop the bleeding, which is really just
a sad and depressing image. Theforensic examiner concluded that Janet's time of death
was probably around four am, soit's possible that it's only bled out for
(21:10):
twenty minutes. It's also possible thatshe bled out for over an hour.
Pretty grim. Next up for theinvestigators, as you can probably guess,
is Read Powell. They brought Readdown to the station, and of course
Read knew exactly why. By thistime, the news had circulated throughout the
(21:30):
community, particularly throughout the Carolinian andother employees of the Beach Town bars and
whatnot, you know, people whowere living in the housing that was provided
by some of these businesses. LeadDetective Tom Gilliam noticed that Read seemed particularly
nervous and agitated, and you know, that could be fair. After all,
(21:55):
he was, you know, probablyassuming that he was the last person
to have seen Janet and that's alwaysa tough look. But he claims that
he had nothing to do with it, and that after Janet dropped him off
at his home, what he haddone was he grabbed a snack and headed
over to his girlfriend's house to confronther about the scene she made at the
(22:19):
bar that night. Now that soundsin line with exactly what the girlfriend said,
but there's a bit of a wrinklehere, and that is this part
where Reid tells the investigators that thesnack that he grabbed was a stick of
pepperoni and a steak knife. Hetook this with him and sat there in
(22:41):
his car waiting for his girlfriend toreturn from the bar, and he was
just cutting off chunks of pepperoni andeating them with a knife. He also
claims that as he sat there eatinghis snack, he saw Janet again.
He watched her actually come out ofthe parking lot where she would have parked
(23:03):
the car at the hotel and walkedup the ramp from that parking lot area
to the hotel, and he watchedher walk inside. So we've got read
now admitting to having a knife andsitting in his car watching Janet walk into
the hotel. That's not a greatlook, am I right? One thing
(23:29):
that could be working in Brad's favor, though, is that the investigators hadn't
divulged any of the facts about Janet'sautopsy or how she had died. No
one really knew whether she had beenstrangled or stabbed, slashed shot. They
just knew that she was murdered,and they were not aware that there was
(23:52):
a sexual assault either, So Reidcould have just been telling the truth and
innocently brought up having that knife couldalmost work in his favor in that way,
do you know what I mean?Because if he were the killer and
knew that he stabbed her with aknife, he's probably not going to mention
that he's hanging out with a knife. But I don't know, maybe that's
just me. In any event,he denied any involvement in the murder,
(24:17):
of course, and then he agreedto surrender a DNA sample, which the
investigators would then use to compare tothe semen sample uncovered during Janet's autopsy.
The DNA sample did not match thesemen sample taken from Janet's a Clari's autopsy.
Reid Powell was free to go fornow. Apologies by the way if
(24:41):
you can hear any sounds in thebackground that sound like airplanes for some reason,
I guess it's because of the holidays, But there is a plane flying
overhead every two minutes while I'm doingthis, so I'm hoping it's not picking
up. If it is, Iapologize. Maybe it'll give it sort of
a drony beach sound in the backgroundthat will actually work for this episode.
(25:03):
I don't know. Fingers crossed.Now, it's August here and we're in
the outer banks of the Carolinas.That's prime hurricane season. And sure enough,
remember nineteen ninety three, this iswhen Hurricane Emily blows onto the scene
and required evacuations all down the Eastcoast in various places, Nag's Head in
(25:29):
particular, all tourists, all peoplerenting homes for the season, all the
hotel guests had to evacuate, hadto leave. And that's sort of a
unique blow to the investigators here,because does that mean all of their suspects
are going to be gone? Doesthat mean the perpetrator is going to get
out of here? You know,they're not going to be checking for people
(25:52):
leaving. They need more time tolock down a suspect before everyone just skidaddles,
potential witnesses, potential suspects. Youknow, everyone's evacuating. What does
this mean for the investigation going forward? It could make things pretty difficult.
Now before Robert ceclari and the groupof mutual friends that had all come down
(26:15):
to this vacation from New Jersey,before they evacuate along with everyone else,
the investigators just have to talk tosome of the mutual friends. They've spoken
with Robert already. But is thereanything else that these girlfriends of Janet can
tell them? And not really,except there was one man that seemed to
(26:36):
raise some red flags for the group, for the women in particular, this
cabana attendant who was working at thehotel who would sort of leer at Janet
when they were out on the beachduring the days. He would just sort
of stare at her and give herlittle eyebrow raises and stuff, you know,
kind of looking at her body,and you know that's going to make
(26:57):
anyone uncomfortable. This guy then cameup and asked her out one day,
and she said that she didn't thinkthat was appropriate with him working there and
whatnot, Probably anything to just gethim to stop. Obviously he was a
creep and Janet's being polite. Butthat last night, that Friday night before
(27:17):
Janet was murdered at the same dinnerthat they had at the hotel, when
the waitress girlfriend of Reid Powell supposedlygave Janet the stink eye. That same
night, the cabana boy saw themhaving dinner in the restaurant and came through
and laid a rose in front ofJanet's you know, in front of Janet
(27:38):
on the table, and kissed heron the cheek. What is that?
I mean, that has to bea fireable offense, right an employee can't
just go up and kiss someone andlay a rose there. It's just insane
behavior for anyone, let alone anemployee of the estabtism. But supposedly Janet
(28:03):
just ignored it and was polite aboutit. She was that way, and
it does sound like that. Itsounds like she drove men crazy. These
guys are all acting a fool over. But the detectives, after they identified
this man, they ran a backgroundcheck on him and found that he had
done some time in prison. Whatfor, you guessed it? Stabbing?
(28:26):
He stabbed his own brother and wentto prison for it. So yeah,
they brought him down to the stationfor some questioning, and look, he
admitted that he fancied Janet, wasvery attracted to her. He claimed that
he thought it was mutual that theywere vibing and giving each other looks.
I guess he misread those signs,if there were any signs at all.
(28:49):
He also had a weak alibi,claimed he was just asleep in his apartment,
which, you know, I say, it's a weak alibi. It's
you know, what most of ouralibi would be for most nights out of
the week, right, But didn'treally have anyone that could corroborate where he
was essentially, so not a strongalibi. But he complied with surrendering a
(29:14):
DNA sample as well, and itdid not match. So at this point,
Hurricane Emily is at full strength,just ripping apart the beaches. There's
mass exodus. It's hard to keeptrack of who's leaving town again. Has
the killer left? Have prime witnessesleft? What are we doing? Our
(29:37):
investigation is completely compromised here. Thehotel itself is wrecked and takes damage.
It's just a big mess over there. But the investigators do get a little
bit more information from outside the area. They can't work the case from there
at Nag's head, but they doget some information from a call from outside,
(30:00):
and that is from Janet Sclarie's motherand wanted to make them aware of
Janet's ex lover, Frank, whohad a violent passed. Janet's mother claimed
that Janet had told her that shefeared that Frank could get violent if they
ever broke up, and they hadbroken up. Janet was single now on
(30:22):
this trip, so the mother naturallyfeared that, well, maybe this was
Frank. Janet did fear that hecould be violent and had of temper.
He had also done time in prisonhimself, did a five year stint as
an accessory to murder. He wasinvolved in a biker gang for a long
time, and I guess someone inhis biker gang had shot and killed someone.
(30:45):
He was involved somehow and did afive year stint in prison. So
obviously investigators are going to need totalk to Frank. And Frank told the
police that actually, no, Iwoke up with Janet and we had an
amicable separation. There was no hostilityand everything was fine. In fact,
(31:08):
she had invited me to go onthe Nag's head trip, but I couldn't
make it, so we were cool. And Frank actually has the best alibi
of all because on the night ofJanet's murder, he was still in New
Jersey being treated at a hospital fora workplace injury, so he had the
rock solid alibi. And Janet's mother'sphone call was much ado about nothing,
(31:33):
unfortunately for the investigation. So really, between solid alibis and samples that don't
match the rape kit on Janet's autopsy, the investigators are out of suspects,
They've got no more leads, andJanet's Acclarie's murder case goes cold. The
(32:08):
brutal murder of Janet Saclari rocked herown family as well as the Nag's head
community. However, with no leadsfor the investigators to work with, and
with Hurricane Emily having ruined the opportunityto get statements from potential witnesses or even
suspects, Janet's case file and allof the evidence containers collect dusts sitting on
(32:31):
the shelves in an evidence room,apart from a simple lookover once a year
from some disinterested lackey. But duringthis four year stretch, something pretty big
happens in the world of crime solving, in the world of forensic sciences,
and that is the development of theCODIS system. It was developed in this
(32:57):
time period. COTIS, as weall know now because it's so commonly used
in a lot of these cases wetalk about, is the Combined DNA Index
system. That is that massive DNAdatabase where police can simply enter a DNA
sample into CODUS and it can geta match. From all these different states
(33:19):
we are now sharing their databases.It's basically just linking all of the DNA
databases together makes it much easier tocompare samples across state lines, across the
country. It was just a huge, huge catalyst for crime solving. Now,
when individuals enter the justice system orenter the prison system really and are
(33:40):
incarcerated, they surrender DNA samples ifthey haven't already, and then cold case
detectives can from time to time entersamples from their old cases and sometimes they'll
get a match. Because it's possiblethat someone that you know, say,
rape someone in nineteen eight or rapedand murdered someone in nineteen ninety, might
(34:05):
do it again and then get arrestedfor it later have to give up a
sample and suddenly you have a sampleyou can compare it to instantaneously, essentially
with cotis. And that's exactly whathappens here. The disinterested lackey that I
mentioned doing the annual review this timearound says, well, I've got codis.
Now, I think I'll take thisDNA sample here from the rape kit
(34:25):
and pop that in cotis and boom, he gets a match. And the
owner of the sample that it matchesto is not at all far away.
It's a man in prison just aboutan hour outside of Nag's Head. Investigators
(34:46):
travel to the prison to interview theman behind the match. That man is
named Thomas Jaben Barry, and Barryis locked up for sexual halt. Now,
(35:09):
when the investigators for Janet's case meetwith Thomas Berry, he first denies
it completely. I have no ideawhat you're talking about. No, I
can't remember any rape of some womanat Nag's Head. No, yeah,
like I from the area, butno, I don't remember anything like that.
(35:30):
Completely denies it. Then, whenthey confront him with the DNA match
through codis, changes his story alittle bit and says, well, I
mean that's not that weird. Ihad sex with all kinds of women on
the beaches of the Outer Banks.You know, this was what I was
(35:51):
doing in those days. I wouldjust hang out on the outer Banks in
the summertime, smoke joints, drink, hang out with chicks. That's Thomas
Berry. Now, I had shakeswith a lot of people on the beach.
I wouldn't have had any idea,you know if we met that way
and then just started walking and talkingand one thing led to another. I've
had that happen several times in mylife. As a matter of fact,
(36:16):
my first wife and I met thatway. Gross. You see, Old
Thomas Berry was a commercial fisherman inthose days, and on his days off,
he liked to party, and hepartied on the beaches and he did.
He liked going to bars, heliked drinking on the beach. He
liked smoking weed, and he alsoliked smoking crack. Especially in ninety two,
(36:40):
ninety three, ninety four, thiswas a big thing for Tom Barry.
In August of ninety three, thetime when Thomas would have encountered Janet,
he was heavily smoking crack, hangingout on the beaches of nags Head.
He did have a girlfriend at thetime, and he was out on
parole at the time, having previouslybeen incarcerated for the statutory rape of a
(37:06):
twelve year old girl. She wouldn'tdo if she was fourteen. I got
the paperwork in there, but orshe was thirteen going on fourteen or something
like that. But no, itwas all consensual. Don't even think we
need to throw the words statutory inthere. At that point, Thomas Barry
(37:27):
was thrown back in prison for failinga UA failing a drug test for his
parole officer. Again, he wasconstantly smoking pot, smoking crack on all
sorts of drugs. Not supposed tobe doing that when you're on parole.
That's what landed him back in theslammer. That's when he had to surrender
a DNA profile and that is whatgot the match to the DNA from the
(37:51):
rape kit and Janet's Clari's autopsy.But Tom is sticking to his story here.
Yeah, I kind of remember meetingher. Yeah, it was pretty
we hung out, we had sexon the beach. I'm a casanova.
This was my thing. Man.I had to have had sex with Janet.
I mean that's obvious from the DNA, but it would have been consensual
(38:12):
and there was no I would havenever killed nobody. I'd never kill anybody.
But Thomas doesn't realize is that Janet'sautopsy conclusively proved that a rape had
taken place, that the sex wasn'tconsensual, that there was damage done to
Janet, And given the fact thatJanet had likely died at four am and
(38:35):
had seen her brother at about twothirty AM when she was grabbing a cigarette,
that's an hour and a half windowfor her to be sexually assaulted by
one person and then murdered by another. That's a pretty short window to have
two separate attacks. So in away, at the very least, Thomas
Barry is confessing to raping Janet,but it's pretty damning that she was stabbed
(39:00):
and murdered in that window. Sothings aren't looking so good for old Nagshead
Tom. After their initial visit withThomas Jabin Barry, the investigators traveled to
Engleheart, Carolina, where Thomas wasfrom, and they made up with Tom's
ex girlfriend just to get some background, and she told them that at the
(39:24):
time of Janet's murder, Tom hadbeen staying with her with the ex girlfriend
at her place and that in thosedays he always carried his fishing knife with
him on his belt. He hada violent temper. He would lash out
and often sort of threatened to grabthe knife. It was like sort of
(39:44):
a muscle memory reflex thing he woulddo when he was being hostile or getting
in a fight or something. Itwould be like putting her hand on the
holster of a gun or something.Just way Lamor and the ex girlfriend said,
Look, he was absolutely capable ofthis huge history of sexual assault,
that's for sure. And in theframe of mind he was all the time
(40:07):
back then, constantly high, constantlydrunk, you know, essentially walking around
the beaches as a predator. It'sentirely plausible that he could have killed someone.
So pretty damning stuff there again forOld Nag's head, Tom, the
investigators obviously look into his criminal background, and Old Thomas Jabin Barry had nearly
(40:30):
a dozen sexual assaults on his record, again, some of them miners,
and one where Thomas was accused ofraping a young lady on one of the
beaches of the Outer Banks. Beforethe investigators left Thomas Jabin Barry's ex girlfriend's
house, they showed her one morething. They showed her some photographs of
(40:52):
the pair of shoes, the whitesneakers that I told you about that had
the gray tube socks ufed into them. They showed her some pictures of these
and she said, he, Yep, those are the shoes that he used
to rock at the time. Thoseare the same sort of socks he would
wear. Looks exactly like what heused to walk around in when I knew
(41:16):
him in nineteen ninety three. Andsome forensic testing was done on these shoes
as well. There weren't just photographstaken for me. This kind of sticks
up a red flag for junk science. But apparently this forensic examiner named Robert
(41:37):
Kennedy took the shoes and cut themopen and was able to take foot impressions
from the inside of the shoe.You know, as you wear a shoe,
your heat and sweat from your feetwill sort of wear a impression into
the sole of the shoe into theon the inside. So if you cut
(41:59):
the top off, you can lookdown at this impression. And then they
took an impression of Thomas Javin Barry'sfoot and we're able to find a match.
They said, it was like aperfect match. There's a Forensic Files
episode on this case where they gointo more detail about it if you're curious
(42:20):
about that. But yeah, itkind of looks like it matches to me.
But it's sort of along the linesof bite mark evidence, where in
most cases you can find a wayto get the teeth to match the teeth
marks. Most human teeth kind offit the same pattern, same with feet,
right, So I'm not sure howmuch stock I put into that.
Forensic Files makes it sound like that'swhat cracked the case, but it's not
(42:45):
what cracked the case. What crackedthe case was the DNA. What cracked
the case was the ex girlfriend identifyingthe shoes. What crack the case was
Nag's head Tom and his history ofsexual violence on the beaches of the Outer
Banks. He still denies it tothis day. He's never going to admit
(43:08):
it. He just says that theyhad consensual sex and that was the end
of it. Maybe he left hisshoes behind because he was so drunken high
he forgot about them. He doesn'teven know if those are his shoes,
YadA, YadA, YadA, Andmaybe it couldn't really be proven. You
(43:30):
could argue that a lot of thisis circumstantial. Yes, there's the match.
Yes, it's likely that he rapedJanet. Can you prove that he
killed her? I guess not.I wasn't able to find anything about them
looking for the knife, maybe tryingto test his knife against some of Janet's
wounds. Perhaps he had long gottenrid of that knife. Anyway, how
(43:51):
are you ever going to find itor nowhere to look? Right? In
any event, the twelve people onthe jury for this case did not need
any real concrete physical evidence that ThomasJabin Barry murder Janet cclari. They convicted
him no problem, and in nineteenninety nine, Old Nag's head Tom was
(44:13):
sentenced to back to back life sentencesfor the rape and murder of thirty five
year old Janet cclari. Rest inpeace, Janet, But it leaves us
with the well will hop um,Here's what I think. Robert cclari says
(44:35):
that around two am, Janet hadcome into the room for cigarettes and he
may have heard someone else. Okay, Now, Janet and Robert's hotel room
was at the end of a hallwayclosest to the beach, and if you
left their room you could actually takean exit that led to an outdoor stairwell
(44:59):
that went to directly down to thebeach, so Janet didn't have to go
down and out through the hotel lobbyand then around to get to the beach
just to go smoke a cigarette.Right, So when Reid Powell had been
sitting in his car and watched Janetcome into the hotel, she came in
that way. She never came outthat way. She would go back down
(45:22):
because they had this conveniently placed room. She would just go back down the
stairwell onto the beach, have hercigarette, nightcap, and come back up
the stairs and go to sleep.Or she would sometimes apparently smoke on the
stairwell. So a couple of thingscould have happened. One maybe old nagshead
(45:43):
Tom with his knife and his boot, saw Janet coming into the hotel and
said, hey, what's happening,pretty lady? You want to have a
cigarette together? Something like that.I don't know. Maybe she thought he
seemed non threatening, seemed handsome.She was in already mood, didn't get
to go home with Reid. Maybeshe said, yeah, I'll have a
cigarette with you. I got togo up to my hotel. He gets
(46:06):
some more though, let me runup to the room here, and maybe
he came with her. Maybe Robertc. Clary was right that he did
hear some whispering in the background.Maybe it was Tom tom Berry, or
maybe he stayed down on the beachand waited for Janet. Maybe he wasn't
there yet. Maybe she came upand got the cigarettes, came down to
the beach and was smoking them,and then old Nag said, Tom crack
(46:30):
addled and drank addled, stumbled uponher on the beach and then said,
Hey, what's happening, pretty lady? I want to share one of those
cigarettes with me. Either way,he encountered her there at some point,
and eventually he probably made some drunkenand drug addled pass at her and she
(46:52):
either refused or he didn't give herthe option to refuse or accept and just
forced himself on her. Now youwould imagine, based on the personality of
Janet, the descriptions people have toldof her and her defensive wounds, that
she use a fighter. But rememberOld Nags said, Tom's got a knife
(47:15):
in his boot, right, andit's possible that he just told her,
you know, you scream, I'mgoing to stab you, so let me
rape you in peace. I'm goingto hold this knife to your throat and
I'm going to force myself on you, and I'm going to rape you.
And oh god, it's gross togo through it. But you know,
(47:37):
then when he finished, he killedher, so she couldn't identify him.
What's he gonna do? He's he'snow raped, he had another person on
the beach. He's already on parole, he's high on drugs. I think
he just killed her because he felthe had to. We know that Janet
(47:57):
died after the rape. He wasprobably long gone by then, so I
don't think she died in the attackwhile it was happening. I don't think
he needed to stab her and slither throat as he was raping her.
I think it was simply a meansto an end for him. I've got
what I wanted, but now Ican't risk getting caught, and so he
killed her. The sad irony ofit is, of course, he told
(48:20):
her probably not to scream and thenI won't stab you. And they needed
it anyway. Discovered the next morningthe way that she was clutching her own
denim shorts to the gaping wound inher neck. From which she bled out
and her thirty five years on thisearth came to an end. As for
(48:43):
the shoes, old Nag's head,Tom, old drug addled, Tom might
have just left them there because heforgot him, and he was so panicked
to get out of there, hejust ran off. Maybe he thought the
footprints from the shoes would identify himor something, they would get footprint track.
I don't think he's that bright orwould even be thinking that way,
So I think he was just ina hurry and drugged out and forgot him.
(49:09):
Thomas Jabin Barry still sits in prisontoday serving out those back to back
life sentences for what he did toJanet and really for what he did to
all those other women and young girls. Thomas Jabin Barry is not a myth,
and he's not even pirate lower ThomasJabin Barry. He's a monster,
(49:34):
But he's similar to that old piratesong right about Tom and the knife in
his boot. Similar because you know, fair maidens stay inside, fathers,
keep your daughters inside. They're outthere. They're out there on the beach.
They might rape and murder you.Sometimes it's not Read Powell, the
guy from the club. Sometimes it'snot the cabana boy. Sometimes it's not
(49:59):
the ex boyfriend or your brother oryour lover. Sometimes it's just Thomas Jaben
Barry walking down the beach and you'rein the wrong place, wrong time.
All right, folks, I hopeyou enjoyed our story today, Old Nag's
(50:22):
Head Tom. I know it wasa little bit of a different style from
me. Might get some more ofthis going forward. I kind of like
having a more conversational tone. Justbeen going back and listening to some of
the old narratives and they feel alittle too dry sometimes. So you'll let
me know. I always appreciate yourfeedback. Leave some comments below. If
(50:42):
this is on YouTube where you're checkingthis out, or any podcast app really,
you can leave comments, or youcan write reviews. Let us know.
You can always email me Darkworldpod atgmail dot com. You can hit
us up on the socials. Loveto hear the feedback, Love to hear
anything you got for me. Imentioned the Apple reviews. If you haven't
(51:05):
done one, it really helps theshow out. So if you could take
a minute to leave us a review, if you're enjoying the program, that
goes a long way, and Ireally appreciate it. I'm going to be
back next time with a part twointerview with Laura Brand, Private Investigator,
Toolbox Killers Expert, and we're goingto talk about her documentary that was finally
(51:30):
made. And I last interviewed Laurabefore the documentary was made. Now it's
been made, I've seen it,checked it out, and we're going to
do a follow up talking about whatshe feels she achieved from it, what
needs to be done still, whatsome of the reception was, and I'm
gonna throw her some questions and commentsfrom you all so she can hear from
(51:53):
you as well. But I thinkthat's it for me. Gonna go ahead
and give Kaylee kay another shout outbecause this is the more proper episode in
which to do that. Kaylee isour newest patron. Thank you so much,
Kaylee, double shout out for youhere. The Christmas special was sort
(52:15):
of a phone in in a way, So thank you so much again,
and thank you to each and everyone of you who continue to listen and
support and comment and interact. Youmean the world to me. Thanks for
keeping me going with this. Sothat's it from me. Gang, Be
safe and be kind. See thepu
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.