July 28, 2021 • 30 mins
Family law attorney Emmanuel Scozarro talks about the importance of long term care planning.
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
Welcome to Dementia Real Talk by Karen Thrive, a podcast
to help you navigate life with dementia, presented by Blair Pharmacy.
Whether you're living with dementia or a care partner for
someone with dementia, join us to learn more about what
to expect and practical approaches to adapt your world to thrive.
Now welcome our hosts, Jerry Young and certified dementia practitioner
(00:28):
and trainer Judy Pritchard.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Everyone, We've got a great podcast for you today, and
it's in a series of podcasts because we're going to
have to do more than one obviously when you know
the topic on this, but Judy, this is something this
topic today is going to be of most interest of
most every podcast we've ever known.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. We are as
you know, our mission in general everybody is to empower
the person that's living with dementia to be in control
of your future, to be in control of how you
live your life and embracing all the abilities that you
have to maintain that control as long as you can.
(01:10):
So this series is so important and we are very
excited to introduce our guests.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So we're going to start off by telling you that
we're going to talk about law and what your rights
are as if you have dementia, what are your still
your legal rights? You know, what decisions do you need
to make now? And that sort of thing. Joining us
now is Emmanual Scizarro and Manuel Welcome in first of
all to the broadcast. And this is a topic that
(01:37):
most people want to do something about, but they find
it difficult to take the time to do it.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Maybe, thank you, Jerry, and they do, they do. I
think people are intimidated and at the same time they're
a little scared of it.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Tell us a little bit before we jump into the specifics,
a little bit about your background and your law firm,
and tell us about what you specialize in.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Okay, my law firm is in Helena, Alabama's Gizar Law, LLC.
And I've been practicing for now eighteen years and for
the last five to six or seven years I focused
on elder law, state planning, probate administration, and outside of
that just the general practice.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Fantastic and we're so excited to have you here. And
we've been spending some time together over the last few
weeks just getting to know each other and getting to
know a little bit about Emmanuel's background. And I can
tell everybody listening that he is definitely had personal experience
with someone living with dementia and is a big advocate
for people living with dementia and our seniors in general.
(02:39):
So we are thrilled to have you here.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
All right, I mean, let's talk about empowering people to
do what they need to do. What do you say
to someone when they say, well, I've just been diagnosed
with early stages of dementia.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
What should you do?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Well, the first thing they should do is they should
look around at their plans and see do they have
any kind of estate plans in place? Do they have
just a basic documents? Do they have a power of attorney?
Is that power of attorney valid? When was it done?
Do they have an advanced director for healthcare? And then
obviously do they have a will or do they have
any kind of documents that is going to transfer their
(03:15):
assets eth or death?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So you talk about long term care plans, so this
is part of a long term care plan as far
as things like power of attorneys and when you should
do that and who should give it to and so
forth like that. So we're going to get let's just
start with power of attorney. So someone comes in and
they say, hey, I want my daughter to be able
to sign on my behalf. Are there different power of
attorneys for different situations or is one power of attorney
(03:39):
covered up?
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Now?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
There are different powers of attorney. You can have a
limited power of attorney for one transaction or one set
of transactions, and then you can have what's called a
durable power of attorney. And even with that are different
brand so to speak. One brand is you want your
power of attorney to be immediate, and that's if somebody
is older, needs care now or needs assistance now making
(04:04):
decisions and taking action on their behalf. The other one
is a springing power of attorney, which comes forward when
you have an incapacity or a disability or neat assistance.
A lot of times you have younger people, say in
their twenties, thirties, and forties, that will have a springing
power of attorney in place in case of an accident.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
So one of the big concerns I get when we're
first working with families that are first diagnosed is that
the person that's been diagnosed almost they fall into the
negative stigma that's out there around dementia and they automatically
assume that they have no voice left as far as
legal matters. So having a diagnosis of dementia doesn't eliminate
(04:46):
your ability to still make these legal decisions, is that right?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
No, not at all. And it also is based on
what stage are you at. Obviously, if you're diagnosed early
stage dementia or early on set, you still got the
ability to make decisions for yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Excellent. I think that is so important for all of
you to hear. You still have You're still empowered to
make your decisions in the early stages as long as
you are able to understand the information. Excellent.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What age, Amanel, do you think someone should come to you,
for example, and say, here's my situation. I want to
make sure that we get all of our orders, our
affairs in order.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Well, normally, if you're talking general state planning, really any
age as long as you have if you have children,
or if you have assets. But in terms of this
topic for long term care planning, around about your mid fifties.
At that point in time, you're either going to have
all of your children, are going to be grown, or
you're going to be close to the end of your career.
I mean, you obviously have a massed assets at that point,
(05:46):
but you're at a stage where you could be closer
than not to have been in a situation where you
can't make this decision.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
So somebody says, but I don't want to give my
kids my house right now. Yeah, I'm just sixty years old.
Why I want to sign it over. But there are
ways to do it, to go ahead and sign it
over before you. What I'm trying to say is before
you die. In other words, the day you die goes over.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
There's actually a document called a life estate deed, and
that life of state deed, you can transfer your home
to your to an adult child, or to really think
anyone upon your death. When you sign that deed, you
don't lose your home. You don't lose any of the
rights to your home. All you All you lose is
the ability for your home to go through probate, to
go through that beast of a process. But at your death,
(06:32):
then your your contingent remainder who is who that person
would be. They would automatically own your home. It will
be an immediate process.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
So tell us what probate means and what's what are
the pros and cons and how does being proactive and
coming to you early, how does that help?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Probate means spending people's money. Basically, probate probate is a
process we have really in every state, and there's what
there's something called a universal Universal Probate Code. Every state
adopted it and every state has put little nuances to it,
but es since they probate can be anything from adoptions
to wills and trust in the states. But in this situation,
(07:09):
obviously we're talking about after death, when somebody passes away.
Probate is the process you would go through. If they
have a will, you would submit that will to probate
and if there, if everybody can sense, or if there's
a hearing, then that will is admitted and the person
in that will is named the executor and then they
take over the process.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
At that point. And the problem with that is on you.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Once your state is in probate, you have if the
whole issue of creditors come in and can really rea
have it take money, take assets and those types of things.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Creditors, So being if the if you have outstanding leans
or loans or anything like that. That's when they would
come in during that process.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yes, any money, any money that you owe at your
death or anybody that has a.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Judgment against you.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
It could even be things like unpaid child support or
unpaid domestic support pblications.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Those things will come up.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Oh interesting, and so and so. So there's probate, and
then there's non probate assets, and so the benefit of
having non probate I'm assuming is that you don't have
to go through the probate process exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Non probate assets or things like life insurance checking accounts
that have beneficiary designations. The life estate did I mentioned earlier.
That's a non that can be a non probate asset.
Or you can also have what's called a revocable living
trust that is a non probate asset. It allows your
assets to transfer at your death without going through the
(08:36):
probate process and involving judges and lawyers and fees and
those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So amnuel a revocable living trust away. I understand the
way was explained to me at one time, and you
can correct me. But it's like forming a corporation, and
the corporation continues to live after you pass away. So
is that, in essence what a revocable living trust is.
And you can name people in that trust kind of
like a board of directors.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, the way normal revocable living trust works is you
have a married couple and they will establish a revocable
living trust. They will name themselves as the initial trustees,
which is like the board of directors, and they are
also the beneficiaries of that trust. And they'll name a
contingent beneficiary, which will be a child or grandchild or
really anybody that choose at their death or at the
(09:21):
death of the last of the one to die. Then
those contingent beneficiaries will step up and they'll inherit the
trust assets and don't really inherit the trust itself.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So the trust keeps living on it can, okay. And
so when you talk about like making someone on the
board of directors, the best way I can think of it.
But you can choose whoever. It doesn't have to be
so I guess what I'm saying. If you've got more
than one child, you name one in particular that would
be in charge of it then or is there both?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
How do you do that?
Speaker 4 (09:53):
You can do it a bunch of different ways. Actually
you can name you know, you could do it chronologically
and have your oldest child and work your way down.
You're gonna have a primary and alternate, a first alternate,
a second alternate, or you can do co trustees or
co beneficiaries. You're going to have everybody operate and act
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
All right, So if you form this revocable living trust
or will do you have to put the assets into it?
Or if you forget to put an asset, is it
is that one asset then go to probate or how
do you have to Like, you know, you got a
lake house for example, you have to make sure both
homes are put in there.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
That's the number one problem people have for vocable living
trust is whoever drifts it the lawyer doesn't advise and
right on titling those assets. You have to fund that trust.
Trust funding is the number one problem with a re
vocal living trust. People have the document and they think, okay,
I have it and everything's in it. Well, now you
have to take some steps. You either have to do
(10:49):
execute a deed or you have to execute some other
document that transfers that asset in there. Now, if it
does get left out, there is something called a poor overwhell.
Whenever you have a revocable living trust, going to have
a poor overwheel, and that poor over wheel is going
to capture that asset that was left out, so to speak. Now,
that asset would go through probate and it would pour
(11:09):
over into your will, but it will still have that
limited exposure at that point to a creditor or to
a third party.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Okay, let's back up. We got we went way down
to the one path already.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
That's why we're gonna do so many podcasts and just
hang on.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
But yes, absolutely great stuff. Okay, let's back back up.
Let's start with POAs because I think that's what most
people are familiar with, the term of power of attorney,
and you listened off several different types of power of attorney.
So let's say that I've been diagnosed in my fifties
and I have early onset or young onset dementia. I
(11:48):
am what do I need to do first?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
The first thing you need to do, obviously is don't panic.
I would say, don't panic. Understand what you have, Understand
you know, figure out what are my assets and what
do I need to do. What do I need to protect?
What am I What am I going to protect? But
the second thing, obviously as far as the Gerber power
of attorneys concerned, is you need to look around and
see who is that person that's closest to me, that
(12:17):
that I trust the most, who is going to make
decisions own my behalf or with me that I would trust,
and start with that process before you even get to
the process of having it drafted and signing it.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So going down the same storyline of what I started on,
so I've been diagnosed with young onset dementia that the
main problem I'm having is problem understanding numbers, which is
so common as far as the first issue, so financial
things which I've used to be strong at now I'm
not and I need a new car. Is that where
(12:49):
a limited power of attorney would come in?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
It could?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I mean, you know, you could also use a standard
power of attorney for that, but with a limited power
of attorney, if you had an issue with say finances
or with a bank account, you could for that particular
bank or for that particular transaction, appoint someone to handle
it on your behalf.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
So I can still manage my day in and day
out cash, but big purchases I can arrange with to
have some sort of power of attorney.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
With that limited power of attorney. As a matter of fact,
this is a little bit different from the subject matter,
but it kind of explains that parents can have a
limited power of attorney for control of their children.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Like if you go out of.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Town or if you go on the trip overseas and
you have minor children out of say ten or eleven
or twelve, you can leave them with a neighbor or
a friend and do what it's called a parental delegation,
which is a limited power of attorney, and they can
take that child to the doctor, get medical care, and
make sure that the needs will met it for that
child while you're gone.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So in the same thing with somebody a living with dementia,
if I know I have this area that I keep
forgetting or have problems with cognitively with finances, then I
could set that up with somebody that I trust you can.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
But in that situation and knowing you have the condition
that you have, and knowing that that is probably the
first thing that you're slipping on, you may want to
go ahead and bypass the whole limited aspect and do
what it's called a durable power of attorney. The reason
it's called durable is if you're able to sign it.
If you have the ability to sign it at the
time you sign it, it's durable. And since that after
(14:19):
you sign it, if at some point you become fully incapacitated,
that POA will stay in place.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
That's the whole durable aspect of durability aspect.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So then that's still that doesn't take all my power away.
I can still sign things as long as I'm feeling
comfortable with it and understanding it exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
As matter of fact, I tell clients when they sign POAs,
especially if they're not in a situation where they have
even early on set or any issue, I always tell
them the person that's your POA or your agent, they're
there to help you make a decision, but if you can't,
they're going to make that decision on your behalf.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
That's great information.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Substitute their own wishes and desires for yours right.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
And is there is there an expiration date.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
On them until you revoke it?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay? Okay, good, excellent, And then What's what's next? Then?
After the durable power attorney attorney is there? Sometimes I
hear things about a medical power of attorney or.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
You can have a special you can have a special
power of attorney just for health care.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Now, the one that I the one I particularly use,
has a hippoor release.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
In there, so it's covered. So my my durable power
attorney's going to cover that aspect.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Already, excellent, very good. What's next?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
The next thing would be what I think is actually
the most important document, and it's the hardest document for
me personally to go over with someone, and it's your
advance director for health care. And that document has two
parts to it. It has your living wheel section and
it has a proxy section. And a proxy is essentially
a lot like a power of attorney, but it's essentially
(15:56):
somebody that's going to make decisions for you when the
time comes when you're in the hospital or you're in
an ICU care unit. That's the person that the hospital
is going to deal with directly.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So let's talk a little bit about advanced directive and
just in general what does that mean?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Okay, And advanced director for healthcare, Like I said, it
has two parts. The first part of it is your
living will. People have you know, forever talked about I
have a living will? What is it?
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Is it oral? Is it written? Our power of attorney statute?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I mean our advanced directive statue in Alabama power of
Attorney has two decisions you have to make, or two
questions you have to answer. The first is in there's
two situations.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
Leap back up.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
There's two situations that are covered, and in each situation
there's two questions to answer. Okay, the first situation is
whether it's when you're terminally ill or terminally injured. And obviously,
in that situation, you're going to die. That means the
doctor doesn't know when, but the doctor knows you have
a condition that's going to take your life. It could
be tomorrow, it could be next week, it could be.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Ten years from now, right years now.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
And in that situation, the first question you have to
answer is whether or not you want life sustaining treatment.
And the way the document defines that is that's treatment
that's going.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
To keep you alive, but not cure you.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
It's not going to cure cancer, it's not going to
cure kidney disease. Obviously, with cure dementia or anything like that.
But it's merely going to keep you alive. And that's
that is a ventilator, machines that will breathe on your behalf,
those kind of things. And the answer to that is
ef they're yes or no. And I have clients initial
that as supposed to check it or exit because I
don't like check marks and excess when it comes to
(17:33):
documents like this. But if they initial yes, then that
document can create what's called I do not resuscitate if
they're in the hospital.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So that doesn't mean IVY medications, it doesn't. Can you
specify spec specifically what you want done and not done?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
That's actually the second part.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Okay, it's a good late lead waiting for you.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
The second question is whether im not whether or not
I want food and water through a tuber iv and
that includes medications.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Okay, excellent? And is that so that's two parts of
the advance directed.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
That's that's that's the two questions on the first section,
which is when I'm terminally ill or injured.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Now, the other section is when I'm when I'm permanently unconscious,
and I don't like that term because there's this is
a term that the code is defined. To me, there's
no such thing as permanently unconsciousness. It's called a coma,
and that's what the code calls I mean, that's what
the way the code defines it. In that situation, you
have the same two questions, whether or not I want
(18:30):
life sustaining treatment and whether or not I want food
and water food tuber iv. I think the problem with
the question, or with the designation like that is the
line between permanently unconsciousness and terminal could be you know,
raised within, It could be tomorrow, it could be ten
years from now, exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Very interesting. So so again I'm back. I'm I'm fifty
fifty five and i have young onset dementia. I'm coming
in to do my advance directive. Can I change my mind?
Once I set this up?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Absolutely, all these documents from your from a will to
a power of rattorney, to an advanced directive to even
a revocable truck, revocable living trust, those are all changeable
or revocable. You terminate them by either doing a new document,
telling the old one up and getting rid of it.
But you want to do a new document obviously, if
you're going to change your mind. You want to have
(19:24):
something else in place, because the worst thing out there
is to have a document floating around that is different
from when you just signed.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
I can't imagine. And do you name somebody on your
advanced directive that is like your spokesperson, that's.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Your proxy, that's cost the second part, And on that
proxy section you can name and you can get as
detailed as you want to. Typically you name a primary
a primary proxy, the person that is the first person
at the hospital or the doctors are gonna deal with.
And then you have an alternate in case something happens,
because obviously people can pass away if you can pree
to cease you.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
They can have a flat tire on the way the hospital, a.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Flat therapy unavailable. We just not want to do it,
We just not want to deal.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
With it, YEP. I can understand that from a personal experience.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
If that happens a lot of times when you have
older people and wife or husband is the proxy and
they're both in their seventies or eighties, and for whatever reason,
she just don't want to deal with her, he doesn't
want to deal with it, and you've got to have
some ace stuff in I said point in that situation.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
And they're just not ready to let go.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
Not ready.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
From a personal standpoint, I went through that exact thing.
I have a brother, and so my dad decided to
go ahead and do his advance directive, and he he
took us both out of the equation and gave that
proxy to my wife, knowing that, you know, if we
got in an argument whether or not to pull the plug,
so to speak, that she had the authority to make
(20:46):
that decision. So I thought that was a good way
on his part to take us out to not ever
let us ever argue about what should we have done
this or should we have done that? But I think
it's also very important going back. You need to make
these diseases is now and go ahead and get it
down and get it on paper. I think one of
the main problems is is people keep waiting and thinking
(21:09):
something's never gonna happen to him. In reality, we all
know that that's not the way life works. So you know,
you got to kind of, uh, you gotta kind of
make sure that I try.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
I don't know who it was.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I felt it on my phone on my watch first.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Was it a duck or was I just hearing.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It hadn't have been a duck, i'd have got there.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
But the quick that's my that's my ten year old
putting uh the rington on my phone. I love.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Okay, let's right, Okay, this is a good pause place anyway.
So I think, is there anything?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Okay, Philip, when you're editing this, we're gonna cut out
Jerry's thing about his dad making Johnna whatever, and we're
gonna pick back up a prozzy.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So but Johnna's a real good person. It's just very knowledgeable.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
To pull the plug.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You ready, Okay, I mean, let's dive.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Wish she would.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
In a second. You're out, You're got it.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I guess it's good or not live my dad. I
tell you this.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
My dad had a nice watch and he's laying there
in the hospital bed and he was fine. But okay, man,
let's dive a little bit more into proxy. Explain exactly
you know what a proxy does?
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
A proxy is somebody that speaks on your behalf when
you're in a condition where you're there in the hospital,
where you're in ICU, or you're in some medically uh
you know, distressful situation, and your proxy when you signed
the document, you give your proxy some instructions. The document
has a list of three and you can only pick one.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So this isn't a time that when you are in
the hospital and it's come down to the wire that
all of a sudden you didn't share the information with
the person you named as a proxy, and oh, what surprise,
you're the proxy. Right, you should talk to this, to
them about this beforehand.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Right, you should definitely talk to them beforehand. And also,
just from my own personal experience, when you have a
love and go in the I SEU like that the director,
the nurse or whoever's they're facilitating the care, they're going
to want to copy of it and they're going to
speak with you. They're going to want to talk to
the proxy and the backup proxy and want to know
how to get in touch with you. What's your what's
(23:36):
your phone number, what's your email? That kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
So does the proxy also sign the document when it's good? Okay, good,
So it's never going to be a surprise situation of oh,
guess what, you're the proxy. No.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
The last section on the document is actually the proxy
acknowledgement section, where they just acknowledged that, hey, I'm the
proxy for mister or miss Smith.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Okay, great, And are there any other decisions that need
to be made around the perroxy?
Speaker 4 (23:58):
There are, Like I said, there's three. There's three instruction
that you can give your proxy, and there are things
that the code is placed in this proxy, so you're
real limited to what you can do in terms of decisions.
The first decision is follow just what's on the form,
just the four corners of the document. Whatever I have
initial it is what you do.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Okay, easy, psy.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
And the second one is follow the same thing, follow
what's on the document and make sure and make decisions
about things I haven't covered.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Now.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
My only issue with that is that's gonna happen anyway.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Rights.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
That's a situation where something comes up outside the four
corners of the document, outside those four questions.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
We talked about.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Your proxy will just make a decision about that, whether
it's you know, bathe them or change them or give
them you know this medication of that medication.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Okay, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
And the last one to me is one of the
most important and probably the ones should think the most about.
And it's where you can give your proxy the power
to make the final decision on anything you've covered, even
though it can be different than what you've chosen.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I call that the override provision.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So give me an example when that would happen.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Okay, the easiest example is somebody has checked, somebody has
initialed on their documents that they do not want licenstaying treatment,
and somebody's sick and they're in the hospital and they've
signed the document, you know, five to ten years ago,
and they get sick and they and they go in
(25:25):
and their proxy can make the decision. At that point,
they have this condition. They signed this proxy five or
ten years ago. There were no there were no treatments
for this condition, there were no cures, there were no
anything that would solve this problem they have, but there
is now.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
So I want to override.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
That decision for the doctors to attempt to essentially save
their life. Now obviously, if that doesn't happen, then you know,
you pass anyway, but you can give your proxy to
power to make that decision. That's where to me, it's
important because these proxies can be five, ten, fifteen years old.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
That's an excellent point. So if their medical advance is made,
since you sign this document, your proxy can say you
know what, No, he didn't realize those those advances were
going to be in place, and so please do continue care. Absolutely,
that's excellent.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, And a perfect example comes to mind be COVID.
I mean a year ago we didn't know anything about COVID.
Now you can actually get on the ventilator for a
few days and come off of it, whereas that could
be a big deal in a ventilator.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
That that that is that is the best example, and
that is that is what we're seeing now in terms
of the legal community.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Excellent, an excellent example, great point.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Okay, Wow, a lot of stuff we've covered, hadn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Great stuff? Good, I've learned a ton.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, and we're just in podcast number one on this topic.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I'm so I am so excited that you're going to
stick around with us for a while.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well. Okay, so before we end out, we're so we've
got the document in place. What do we do now?
Where do who needs copies? Where do we keep them?
Who do we give them to?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Okay, I typically do not keep the original. I'll give
their original to the client or to the person that
signs the document. I advise them to keep this document
in the safest place possible, whether it's a safe deposit
box at the bank, whether it's a safe at home,
anywhere they keep imported papers that they can get their
hands on. Secondly, they needthing to let that proxy know
(27:20):
where where these documents are, where to find them if
they are in a safe deposit box. Put that proxy
or that POA owned the safe deposit box in the
form so when they go to the bank, the bank
won't say no, you can't have it. And the last
thing is you should definitely give your proxy a copy
if they want one, offer them the option to say
yes or no. But I wouldn't give out too many
(27:43):
more copies than just to your proxy.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Excellent, excellent points. This is not something to lay on
your desk in a pile of papers and not know
where you can find it when you need it too.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And also I've had hospitals called me in the past.
My clients have gone in for surgery or emergency issues
and they'll call and say, do you have a proxy
from mister Smith or do you have the advanced director
from mister Smith? And I have a certifact copy so
I can email or facts that tal and that will
suffice until we can get the original to the hospital.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
One last question before we close this out. If you
give someone your proxy and they precede you in death,
then what happens at that point? You need another proxy
obviously for a new person.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yes, if you make someone your primary proxy and you
have an alternate, unless say they both the primary and
alternate both die in a car accident, your absolutely need.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
Do we do the document?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, well we're gonna get in. We're gonna dive into
more subjects too. And I, you know, just can't thank
you enough for the information. I know it's so many people,
and I've been in that situation where you just don't
know what to do, Judy, and these are these are
answers to questions that are just gold.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
We talk about getting your dementia thrive network together. People
like Emmanual. It's because are a law definitely are part
of that dementia thrive network. So thank you so much, Emmanuel,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
This has been dementia real talk. Let's say you real.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Sing, take care, everyone thrive on.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
When caring for your family. Your local pharmacy should be
an important part of your team. Blair Pharmacy in Alabaster
is a family owned full service pharmacy giving its clients personalized,
accurate service. They offer services like Nedpack, Flavor RX, and
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(29:28):
but also support local vendors by offering unique handcrafted items.
Blair Pharmacy a full service pharmacy caring for each of
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Thanks for listening and be sure to follow us on
Facebook at karen Thrive and visit our website www dot
(29:50):
Karenthrive dot org. Subscribe to this podcast through your favorite
podcasting platform. This podcast is produced by your podcast now
dot com. Let us produce a podcast for you.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
It is not a substitute for professional
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Care by a doctor or other qualified medical professionals.
Welcome to Dementia Real Talk by Karen Thrive, a podcast
to help you navigate life with dementia, presented by Blair Pharmacy.
Whether you're living with dementia or a care partner for
someone with dementia, join us to learn more about what
to expect and practical approaches to adapt your world to thrive.
Now welcome our hosts, Jerry Young and certified dementia practitioner
(00:28):
and trainer Judy Pritchard.
Speaker 5 (00:32):
Hello.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Everyone, We've got a great podcast for you today, and
it's in a series of podcasts because we're going to
have to do more than one obviously when you know
the topic on this, but Judy, this is something this
topic today is going to be of most interest of
most every podcast we've ever known.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. We are as
you know, our mission in general everybody is to empower
the person that's living with dementia to be in control
of your future, to be in control of how you
live your life and embracing all the abilities that you
have to maintain that control as long as you can.
(01:10):
So this series is so important and we are very
excited to introduce our guests.
Speaker 5 (01:16):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
So we're going to start off by telling you that
we're going to talk about law and what your rights
are as if you have dementia, what are your still
your legal rights? You know, what decisions do you need
to make now? And that sort of thing. Joining us
now is Emmanual Scizarro and Manuel Welcome in first of
all to the broadcast. And this is a topic that
(01:37):
most people want to do something about, but they find
it difficult to take the time to do it.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Maybe, thank you, Jerry, and they do, they do. I
think people are intimidated and at the same time they're
a little scared of it.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Tell us a little bit before we jump into the specifics,
a little bit about your background and your law firm,
and tell us about what you specialize in.
Speaker 4 (01:58):
Okay, my law firm is in Helena, Alabama's Gizar Law, LLC.
And I've been practicing for now eighteen years and for
the last five to six or seven years I focused
on elder law, state planning, probate administration, and outside of
that just the general practice.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Fantastic and we're so excited to have you here. And
we've been spending some time together over the last few
weeks just getting to know each other and getting to
know a little bit about Emmanuel's background. And I can
tell everybody listening that he is definitely had personal experience
with someone living with dementia and is a big advocate
for people living with dementia and our seniors in general.
(02:39):
So we are thrilled to have you here.
Speaker 5 (02:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
All right, I mean, let's talk about empowering people to
do what they need to do. What do you say
to someone when they say, well, I've just been diagnosed
with early stages of dementia.
Speaker 5 (02:52):
What should you do?
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Well, the first thing they should do is they should
look around at their plans and see do they have
any kind of estate plans in place? Do they have
just a basic documents? Do they have a power of attorney?
Is that power of attorney valid? When was it done?
Do they have an advanced director for healthcare? And then
obviously do they have a will or do they have
any kind of documents that is going to transfer their
(03:15):
assets eth or death?
Speaker 2 (03:17):
So you talk about long term care plans, so this
is part of a long term care plan as far
as things like power of attorneys and when you should
do that and who should give it to and so
forth like that. So we're going to get let's just
start with power of attorney. So someone comes in and
they say, hey, I want my daughter to be able
to sign on my behalf. Are there different power of
attorneys for different situations or is one power of attorney
(03:39):
covered up?
Speaker 5 (03:40):
Now?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
There are different powers of attorney. You can have a
limited power of attorney for one transaction or one set
of transactions, and then you can have what's called a
durable power of attorney. And even with that are different
brand so to speak. One brand is you want your
power of attorney to be immediate, and that's if somebody
is older, needs care now or needs assistance now making
(04:04):
decisions and taking action on their behalf. The other one
is a springing power of attorney, which comes forward when
you have an incapacity or a disability or neat assistance.
A lot of times you have younger people, say in
their twenties, thirties, and forties, that will have a springing
power of attorney in place in case of an accident.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
So one of the big concerns I get when we're
first working with families that are first diagnosed is that
the person that's been diagnosed almost they fall into the
negative stigma that's out there around dementia and they automatically
assume that they have no voice left as far as
legal matters. So having a diagnosis of dementia doesn't eliminate
(04:46):
your ability to still make these legal decisions, is that right?
Speaker 4 (04:50):
No, not at all. And it also is based on
what stage are you at. Obviously, if you're diagnosed early
stage dementia or early on set, you still got the
ability to make decisions for yourself.
Speaker 3 (05:00):
Excellent. I think that is so important for all of
you to hear. You still have You're still empowered to
make your decisions in the early stages as long as
you are able to understand the information. Excellent.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
What age, Amanel, do you think someone should come to you,
for example, and say, here's my situation. I want to
make sure that we get all of our orders, our
affairs in order.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
Well, normally, if you're talking general state planning, really any
age as long as you have if you have children,
or if you have assets. But in terms of this
topic for long term care planning, around about your mid fifties.
At that point in time, you're either going to have
all of your children, are going to be grown, or
you're going to be close to the end of your career.
I mean, you obviously have a massed assets at that point,
(05:46):
but you're at a stage where you could be closer
than not to have been in a situation where you
can't make this decision.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
So somebody says, but I don't want to give my
kids my house right now. Yeah, I'm just sixty years old.
Why I want to sign it over. But there are
ways to do it, to go ahead and sign it
over before you. What I'm trying to say is before
you die. In other words, the day you die goes over.
Speaker 5 (06:09):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
There's actually a document called a life estate deed, and
that life of state deed, you can transfer your home
to your to an adult child, or to really think
anyone upon your death. When you sign that deed, you
don't lose your home. You don't lose any of the
rights to your home. All you All you lose is
the ability for your home to go through probate, to
go through that beast of a process. But at your death,
(06:32):
then your your contingent remainder who is who that person
would be. They would automatically own your home. It will
be an immediate process.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
So tell us what probate means and what's what are
the pros and cons and how does being proactive and
coming to you early, how does that help?
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Probate means spending people's money. Basically, probate probate is a
process we have really in every state, and there's what
there's something called a universal Universal Probate Code. Every state
adopted it and every state has put little nuances to it,
but es since they probate can be anything from adoptions
to wills and trust in the states. But in this situation,
(07:09):
obviously we're talking about after death, when somebody passes away.
Probate is the process you would go through. If they
have a will, you would submit that will to probate
and if there, if everybody can sense, or if there's
a hearing, then that will is admitted and the person
in that will is named the executor and then they
take over the process.
Speaker 5 (07:27):
At that point. And the problem with that is on you.
Speaker 4 (07:30):
Once your state is in probate, you have if the
whole issue of creditors come in and can really rea
have it take money, take assets and those types of things.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Creditors, So being if the if you have outstanding leans
or loans or anything like that. That's when they would
come in during that process.
Speaker 4 (07:49):
Yes, any money, any money that you owe at your
death or anybody that has a.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Judgment against you.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
It could even be things like unpaid child support or
unpaid domestic support pblications.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
Those things will come up.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Oh interesting, and so and so. So there's probate, and
then there's non probate assets, and so the benefit of
having non probate I'm assuming is that you don't have
to go through the probate process exactly.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Non probate assets or things like life insurance checking accounts
that have beneficiary designations. The life estate did I mentioned earlier.
That's a non that can be a non probate asset.
Or you can also have what's called a revocable living
trust that is a non probate asset. It allows your
assets to transfer at your death without going through the
(08:36):
probate process and involving judges and lawyers and fees and
those kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So amnuel a revocable living trust away. I understand the
way was explained to me at one time, and you
can correct me. But it's like forming a corporation, and
the corporation continues to live after you pass away. So
is that, in essence what a revocable living trust is.
And you can name people in that trust kind of
like a board of directors.
Speaker 4 (08:59):
Yeah, the way normal revocable living trust works is you
have a married couple and they will establish a revocable
living trust. They will name themselves as the initial trustees,
which is like the board of directors, and they are
also the beneficiaries of that trust. And they'll name a
contingent beneficiary, which will be a child or grandchild or
really anybody that choose at their death or at the
(09:21):
death of the last of the one to die. Then
those contingent beneficiaries will step up and they'll inherit the
trust assets and don't really inherit the trust itself.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So the trust keeps living on it can, okay. And
so when you talk about like making someone on the
board of directors, the best way I can think of it.
But you can choose whoever. It doesn't have to be
so I guess what I'm saying. If you've got more
than one child, you name one in particular that would
be in charge of it then or is there both?
Speaker 5 (09:53):
How do you do that?
Speaker 4 (09:53):
You can do it a bunch of different ways. Actually
you can name you know, you could do it chronologically
and have your oldest child and work your way down.
You're gonna have a primary and alternate, a first alternate,
a second alternate, or you can do co trustees or
co beneficiaries. You're going to have everybody operate and act
at the same time.
Speaker 2 (10:11):
All right, So if you form this revocable living trust
or will do you have to put the assets into it?
Or if you forget to put an asset, is it
is that one asset then go to probate or how
do you have to Like, you know, you got a
lake house for example, you have to make sure both
homes are put in there.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
That's the number one problem people have for vocable living
trust is whoever drifts it the lawyer doesn't advise and
right on titling those assets. You have to fund that trust.
Trust funding is the number one problem with a re
vocal living trust. People have the document and they think, okay,
I have it and everything's in it. Well, now you
have to take some steps. You either have to do
(10:49):
execute a deed or you have to execute some other
document that transfers that asset in there. Now, if it
does get left out, there is something called a poor overwhell.
Whenever you have a revocable living trust, going to have
a poor overwheel, and that poor over wheel is going
to capture that asset that was left out, so to speak. Now,
that asset would go through probate and it would pour
(11:09):
over into your will, but it will still have that
limited exposure at that point to a creditor or to
a third party.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Okay, let's back up. We got we went way down
to the one path already.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
That's why we're gonna do so many podcasts and just
hang on.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
But yes, absolutely great stuff. Okay, let's back back up.
Let's start with POAs because I think that's what most
people are familiar with, the term of power of attorney,
and you listened off several different types of power of attorney.
So let's say that I've been diagnosed in my fifties
and I have early onset or young onset dementia. I
(11:48):
am what do I need to do first?
Speaker 4 (11:54):
The first thing you need to do, obviously is don't panic.
I would say, don't panic. Understand what you have, Understand
you know, figure out what are my assets and what
do I need to do. What do I need to protect?
What am I What am I going to protect? But
the second thing, obviously as far as the Gerber power
of attorneys concerned, is you need to look around and
see who is that person that's closest to me, that
(12:17):
that I trust the most, who is going to make
decisions own my behalf or with me that I would trust,
and start with that process before you even get to
the process of having it drafted and signing it.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
That kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
So going down the same storyline of what I started on,
so I've been diagnosed with young onset dementia that the
main problem I'm having is problem understanding numbers, which is
so common as far as the first issue, so financial
things which I've used to be strong at now I'm
not and I need a new car. Is that where
(12:49):
a limited power of attorney would come in?
Speaker 1 (12:51):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (12:52):
It could?
Speaker 4 (12:52):
I mean, you know, you could also use a standard
power of attorney for that, but with a limited power
of attorney, if you had an issue with say finances
or with a bank account, you could for that particular
bank or for that particular transaction, appoint someone to handle
it on your behalf.
Speaker 3 (13:08):
So I can still manage my day in and day
out cash, but big purchases I can arrange with to
have some sort of power of attorney.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
With that limited power of attorney. As a matter of fact,
this is a little bit different from the subject matter,
but it kind of explains that parents can have a
limited power of attorney for control of their children.
Speaker 5 (13:25):
Like if you go out of.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Town or if you go on the trip overseas and
you have minor children out of say ten or eleven
or twelve, you can leave them with a neighbor or
a friend and do what it's called a parental delegation,
which is a limited power of attorney, and they can
take that child to the doctor, get medical care, and
make sure that the needs will met it for that
child while you're gone.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
So in the same thing with somebody a living with dementia,
if I know I have this area that I keep
forgetting or have problems with cognitively with finances, then I
could set that up with somebody that I trust you can.
Speaker 4 (13:58):
But in that situation and knowing you have the condition
that you have, and knowing that that is probably the
first thing that you're slipping on, you may want to
go ahead and bypass the whole limited aspect and do
what it's called a durable power of attorney. The reason
it's called durable is if you're able to sign it.
If you have the ability to sign it at the
time you sign it, it's durable. And since that after
(14:19):
you sign it, if at some point you become fully incapacitated,
that POA will stay in place.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Okay, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
That's the whole durable aspect of durability aspect.
Speaker 3 (14:31):
So then that's still that doesn't take all my power away.
I can still sign things as long as I'm feeling
comfortable with it and understanding it exactly.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
As matter of fact, I tell clients when they sign POAs,
especially if they're not in a situation where they have
even early on set or any issue, I always tell
them the person that's your POA or your agent, they're
there to help you make a decision, but if you can't,
they're going to make that decision on your behalf.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
That's great information.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
Substitute their own wishes and desires for yours right.
Speaker 3 (15:03):
And is there is there an expiration date.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
On them until you revoke it?
Speaker 3 (15:09):
Okay? Okay, good, excellent, And then What's what's next? Then?
After the durable power attorney attorney is there? Sometimes I
hear things about a medical power of attorney or.
Speaker 4 (15:19):
You can have a special you can have a special
power of attorney just for health care.
Speaker 5 (15:23):
Now, the one that I the one I particularly use,
has a hippoor release.
Speaker 4 (15:27):
In there, so it's covered. So my my durable power
attorney's going to cover that aspect.
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Already, excellent, very good. What's next?
Speaker 4 (15:36):
The next thing would be what I think is actually
the most important document, and it's the hardest document for
me personally to go over with someone, and it's your
advance director for health care. And that document has two
parts to it. It has your living wheel section and
it has a proxy section. And a proxy is essentially
a lot like a power of attorney, but it's essentially
(15:56):
somebody that's going to make decisions for you when the
time comes when you're in the hospital or you're in
an ICU care unit. That's the person that the hospital
is going to deal with directly.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
So let's talk a little bit about advanced directive and
just in general what does that mean?
Speaker 4 (16:12):
Okay, And advanced director for healthcare, Like I said, it
has two parts. The first part of it is your
living will. People have you know, forever talked about I
have a living will? What is it?
Speaker 5 (16:21):
Is it oral? Is it written? Our power of attorney statute?
Speaker 4 (16:25):
I mean our advanced directive statue in Alabama power of
Attorney has two decisions you have to make, or two
questions you have to answer. The first is in there's
two situations.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
Leap back up.
Speaker 4 (16:38):
There's two situations that are covered, and in each situation
there's two questions to answer. Okay, the first situation is
whether it's when you're terminally ill or terminally injured. And obviously,
in that situation, you're going to die. That means the
doctor doesn't know when, but the doctor knows you have
a condition that's going to take your life. It could
be tomorrow, it could be next week, it could be.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Ten years from now, right years now.
Speaker 4 (17:00):
And in that situation, the first question you have to
answer is whether or not you want life sustaining treatment.
And the way the document defines that is that's treatment
that's going.
Speaker 5 (17:09):
To keep you alive, but not cure you.
Speaker 4 (17:12):
It's not going to cure cancer, it's not going to
cure kidney disease. Obviously, with cure dementia or anything like that.
But it's merely going to keep you alive. And that's
that is a ventilator, machines that will breathe on your behalf,
those kind of things. And the answer to that is
ef they're yes or no. And I have clients initial
that as supposed to check it or exit because I
don't like check marks and excess when it comes to
(17:33):
documents like this. But if they initial yes, then that
document can create what's called I do not resuscitate if
they're in the hospital.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So that doesn't mean IVY medications, it doesn't. Can you
specify spec specifically what you want done and not done?
Speaker 5 (17:47):
That's actually the second part.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Okay, it's a good late lead waiting for you.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
The second question is whether im not whether or not
I want food and water through a tuber iv and
that includes medications.
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Okay, excellent? And is that so that's two parts of
the advance directed.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
That's that's that's the two questions on the first section,
which is when I'm terminally ill or injured.
Speaker 3 (18:09):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (18:09):
Now, the other section is when I'm when I'm permanently unconscious,
and I don't like that term because there's this is
a term that the code is defined. To me, there's
no such thing as permanently unconsciousness. It's called a coma,
and that's what the code calls I mean, that's what
the way the code defines it. In that situation, you
have the same two questions, whether or not I want
(18:30):
life sustaining treatment and whether or not I want food
and water food tuber iv. I think the problem with
the question, or with the designation like that is the
line between permanently unconsciousness and terminal could be you know,
raised within, It could be tomorrow, it could be ten
years from now, exactly.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Very interesting. So so again I'm back. I'm I'm fifty
fifty five and i have young onset dementia. I'm coming
in to do my advance directive. Can I change my mind?
Once I set this up?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
Absolutely, all these documents from your from a will to
a power of rattorney, to an advanced directive to even
a revocable truck, revocable living trust, those are all changeable
or revocable. You terminate them by either doing a new document,
telling the old one up and getting rid of it.
But you want to do a new document obviously, if
you're going to change your mind. You want to have
(19:24):
something else in place, because the worst thing out there
is to have a document floating around that is different
from when you just signed.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
I can't imagine. And do you name somebody on your
advanced directive that is like your spokesperson, that's.
Speaker 4 (19:37):
Your proxy, that's cost the second part, And on that
proxy section you can name and you can get as
detailed as you want to. Typically you name a primary
a primary proxy, the person that is the first person
at the hospital or the doctors are gonna deal with.
And then you have an alternate in case something happens,
because obviously people can pass away if you can pree
to cease you.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
They can have a flat tire on the way the hospital, a.
Speaker 4 (20:00):
Flat therapy unavailable. We just not want to do it,
We just not want to deal.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
With it, YEP. I can understand that from a personal experience.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
If that happens a lot of times when you have
older people and wife or husband is the proxy and
they're both in their seventies or eighties, and for whatever reason,
she just don't want to deal with her, he doesn't
want to deal with it, and you've got to have
some ace stuff in I said point in that situation.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
And they're just not ready to let go.
Speaker 5 (20:22):
Not ready.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
From a personal standpoint, I went through that exact thing.
I have a brother, and so my dad decided to
go ahead and do his advance directive, and he he
took us both out of the equation and gave that
proxy to my wife, knowing that, you know, if we
got in an argument whether or not to pull the plug,
so to speak, that she had the authority to make
(20:46):
that decision. So I thought that was a good way
on his part to take us out to not ever
let us ever argue about what should we have done
this or should we have done that? But I think
it's also very important going back. You need to make
these diseases is now and go ahead and get it
down and get it on paper. I think one of
the main problems is is people keep waiting and thinking
(21:09):
something's never gonna happen to him. In reality, we all
know that that's not the way life works. So you know,
you got to kind of, uh, you gotta kind of
make sure that I try.
Speaker 5 (21:27):
I don't know who it was.
Speaker 4 (21:30):
I felt it on my phone on my watch first.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Was it a duck or was I just hearing.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
It hadn't have been a duck, i'd have got there.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
But the quick that's my that's my ten year old
putting uh the rington on my phone. I love.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
Okay, let's right, Okay, this is a good pause place anyway.
So I think, is there anything?
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Okay, Philip, when you're editing this, we're gonna cut out
Jerry's thing about his dad making Johnna whatever, and we're
gonna pick back up a prozzy.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
So but Johnna's a real good person. It's just very knowledgeable.
Speaker 5 (22:04):
To pull the plug.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You ready, Okay, I mean, let's dive.
Speaker 5 (22:12):
Wish she would.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
In a second. You're out, You're got it.
Speaker 5 (22:21):
I guess it's good or not live my dad. I
tell you this.
Speaker 2 (22:26):
My dad had a nice watch and he's laying there
in the hospital bed and he was fine. But okay, man,
let's dive a little bit more into proxy. Explain exactly
you know what a proxy does?
Speaker 5 (22:39):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (22:40):
A proxy is somebody that speaks on your behalf when
you're in a condition where you're there in the hospital,
where you're in ICU, or you're in some medically uh
you know, distressful situation, and your proxy when you signed
the document, you give your proxy some instructions. The document
has a list of three and you can only pick one.
Speaker 3 (23:01):
So this isn't a time that when you are in
the hospital and it's come down to the wire that
all of a sudden you didn't share the information with
the person you named as a proxy, and oh, what surprise,
you're the proxy. Right, you should talk to this, to
them about this beforehand.
Speaker 4 (23:16):
Right, you should definitely talk to them beforehand. And also,
just from my own personal experience, when you have a
love and go in the I SEU like that the director,
the nurse or whoever's they're facilitating the care, they're going
to want to copy of it and they're going to
speak with you. They're going to want to talk to
the proxy and the backup proxy and want to know
how to get in touch with you. What's your what's
(23:36):
your phone number, what's your email? That kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
So does the proxy also sign the document when it's good? Okay, good,
So it's never going to be a surprise situation of oh,
guess what, you're the proxy. No.
Speaker 4 (23:47):
The last section on the document is actually the proxy
acknowledgement section, where they just acknowledged that, hey, I'm the
proxy for mister or miss Smith.
Speaker 3 (23:53):
Okay, great, And are there any other decisions that need
to be made around the perroxy?
Speaker 4 (23:58):
There are, Like I said, there's three. There's three instruction
that you can give your proxy, and there are things
that the code is placed in this proxy, so you're
real limited to what you can do in terms of decisions.
The first decision is follow just what's on the form,
just the four corners of the document. Whatever I have
initial it is what you do.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
Okay, easy, psy.
Speaker 4 (24:18):
And the second one is follow the same thing, follow
what's on the document and make sure and make decisions
about things I haven't covered.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
Now.
Speaker 4 (24:26):
My only issue with that is that's gonna happen anyway.
Speaker 5 (24:29):
Rights.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
That's a situation where something comes up outside the four
corners of the document, outside those four questions.
Speaker 5 (24:36):
We talked about.
Speaker 4 (24:39):
Your proxy will just make a decision about that, whether
it's you know, bathe them or change them or give
them you know this medication of that medication.
Speaker 3 (24:46):
Okay, okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
And the last one to me is one of the
most important and probably the ones should think the most about.
And it's where you can give your proxy the power
to make the final decision on anything you've covered, even
though it can be different than what you've chosen.
Speaker 5 (25:00):
I call that the override provision.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So give me an example when that would happen.
Speaker 4 (25:05):
Okay, the easiest example is somebody has checked, somebody has
initialed on their documents that they do not want licenstaying treatment,
and somebody's sick and they're in the hospital and they've
signed the document, you know, five to ten years ago,
and they get sick and they and they go in
(25:25):
and their proxy can make the decision. At that point,
they have this condition. They signed this proxy five or
ten years ago. There were no there were no treatments
for this condition, there were no cures, there were no
anything that would solve this problem they have, but there
is now.
Speaker 5 (25:42):
So I want to override.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
That decision for the doctors to attempt to essentially save
their life. Now obviously, if that doesn't happen, then you know,
you pass anyway, but you can give your proxy to
power to make that decision. That's where to me, it's
important because these proxies can be five, ten, fifteen years old.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
That's an excellent point. So if their medical advance is made,
since you sign this document, your proxy can say you
know what, No, he didn't realize those those advances were
going to be in place, and so please do continue care. Absolutely,
that's excellent.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Yeah, And a perfect example comes to mind be COVID.
I mean a year ago we didn't know anything about COVID.
Now you can actually get on the ventilator for a
few days and come off of it, whereas that could
be a big deal in a ventilator.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
That that that is that is the best example, and
that is that is what we're seeing now in terms
of the legal community.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Excellent, an excellent example, great point.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
Okay, Wow, a lot of stuff we've covered, hadn't it?
Speaker 3 (26:40):
Great stuff? Good, I've learned a ton.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Yeah, and we're just in podcast number one on this topic.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
I'm so I am so excited that you're going to
stick around with us for a while.
Speaker 5 (26:49):
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3 (26:50):
Well. Okay, so before we end out, we're so we've
got the document in place. What do we do now?
Where do who needs copies? Where do we keep them?
Who do we give them to?
Speaker 4 (27:00):
Okay, I typically do not keep the original. I'll give
their original to the client or to the person that
signs the document. I advise them to keep this document
in the safest place possible, whether it's a safe deposit
box at the bank, whether it's a safe at home,
anywhere they keep imported papers that they can get their
hands on. Secondly, they needthing to let that proxy know
(27:20):
where where these documents are, where to find them if
they are in a safe deposit box. Put that proxy
or that POA owned the safe deposit box in the
form so when they go to the bank, the bank
won't say no, you can't have it. And the last
thing is you should definitely give your proxy a copy
if they want one, offer them the option to say
yes or no. But I wouldn't give out too many
(27:43):
more copies than just to your proxy.
Speaker 3 (27:45):
Excellent, excellent points. This is not something to lay on
your desk in a pile of papers and not know
where you can find it when you need it too.
Speaker 5 (27:52):
Yes.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
And also I've had hospitals called me in the past.
My clients have gone in for surgery or emergency issues
and they'll call and say, do you have a proxy
from mister Smith or do you have the advanced director
from mister Smith? And I have a certifact copy so
I can email or facts that tal and that will
suffice until we can get the original to the hospital.
Speaker 3 (28:12):
Excellent.
Speaker 2 (28:13):
One last question before we close this out. If you
give someone your proxy and they precede you in death,
then what happens at that point? You need another proxy
obviously for a new person.
Speaker 5 (28:23):
Correct.
Speaker 4 (28:24):
Yes, if you make someone your primary proxy and you
have an alternate, unless say they both the primary and
alternate both die in a car accident, your absolutely need.
Speaker 5 (28:32):
Do we do the document?
Speaker 2 (28:34):
Okay, well we're gonna get in. We're gonna dive into
more subjects too. And I, you know, just can't thank
you enough for the information. I know it's so many people,
and I've been in that situation where you just don't
know what to do, Judy, and these are these are
answers to questions that are just gold.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
We talk about getting your dementia thrive network together. People
like Emmanual. It's because are a law definitely are part
of that dementia thrive network. So thank you so much, Emmanuel,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
This has been dementia real talk. Let's say you real.
Speaker 3 (29:02):
Sing, take care, everyone thrive on.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
When caring for your family. Your local pharmacy should be
an important part of your team. Blair Pharmacy in Alabaster
is a family owned full service pharmacy giving its clients personalized,
accurate service. They offer services like Nedpack, Flavor RX, and
free delivery. Kim and Daniel Blair are members of the
community and are here for you and your family. They
offer everyday items you would find in the big box stores,
(29:28):
but also support local vendors by offering unique handcrafted items.
Blair Pharmacy a full service pharmacy caring for each of
our patients individual needs. Www dot Blair dash Pharmacy dot com.
Thanks for listening and be sure to follow us on
Facebook at karen Thrive and visit our website www dot
(29:50):
Karenthrive dot org. Subscribe to this podcast through your favorite
podcasting platform. This podcast is produced by your podcast now
dot com. Let us produce a podcast for you.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
It is not a substitute for professional
Speaker 2 (30:11):
Care by a doctor or other qualified medical professionals.
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