Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:13):
What is up? Everybody? Welcome to this week's episode of
the Dense Pixels podcast, and we were host Brad joined
by my co host Micah Hey and Carrie. What's up?
So we didn't record last week as a Memorial Day
and because of news being slow because we are on
the precipice of simultaneously the switch to release and the
summer game fest festivities Key three as some call it.
(00:39):
And there's also not a lot of news this week.
But that's okay because we're gonna do something a little
bit different this week because me and Micah have finished
Claire Obscure Expedition thirty three, Carrie has observed.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Three yeah osmosis, and myself though I but maybe now
I will because I suddenly have a lot more free time.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, look, silver linings and all that, right, so exactly,
but I find myself compulsively wanting to talk about this
game a lot. So that's what we're going to do
on this show. So not a normal episode, this, of course,
(01:30):
will be Leyden with Claire Obscure Expedition thirty three spoilers.
We're going to talk about the game freely, the story freely,
the mechanics of the game, freely any anything about the game.
So if you plan on playing Claire Scare Expedition thirty three,
or you're currently playing it and haven't quite made it
to the end yet, bank this one and whip it
(01:54):
out when when you've done that, and when you're ready
to hear spoiler talk about this game.
Speaker 2 (02:03):
Claire on my obscure till I gomage. Is that how
it goes?
Speaker 1 (02:08):
That's sure, that sounds that sounds about right. But for
those for those that are here listening, let's let's just
get right fucking into it now. For me, So, I
finished the game yesterday. I when last I left off,
I was right at the end of Act two, which
(02:30):
the game kind of teases you into, making you believe
that this is like, hey, you're heading towards the final
boss fight. I was not fooled. I'm like, there still
feels like it just this feels too perfect for this game,
Like this game doesn't. I don't feel like it's going
to resolve itself neatly. So I did the fight against
(02:50):
the Paintress and then I just kept playing because I was,
I was locked in. I was I was a Perry
god last night. So I ended up playing the game
for like five hours and and finally rolled credits on it.
Look I was, I was in it like like like
I I when the game started, I was more of
a dodge guy. And then I realized that like dodging
(03:14):
is just woefully inefficient, right like you want the Perry's.
You want to be able to get the counter attacks
and all that jazz. So like I whilled myself into
learning how to parry.
Speaker 3 (03:28):
And the beautiful thing about this game is that it
it's not just I would imagine you carry. Would would
really appreciate some of the sound design in that it's
not just a visual cue. Oh yeah, Perry's like you.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
Get an audioque too, similar.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Most of them you get audio cues.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
It reminded me a lot of and again speaking of
someone who only watched my boyfriend play it, but in
a similar way to how like The Guardian and Breath
of the Wild would have that like ping noise right
before you could parry the big death laser. So in
a game that is uh that seems very finicky in
(04:13):
terms of its timing, I think having every kind of
cue is very important.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
Well. In fact, I've relied more on the audio cues
uh than I did the visual cues to execute the
perry like like the visual cues like the problem with
relying on those specifically is that a lot of the
enemy animations are very fluid, especially as you get into
the later enemies that really are like you know, like
(04:38):
when you're fighting the necrons, like those are like constructs, right,
But as you start fighting more of the like painted
adversaries and stuff like that, like they're like like their
flourishes are much grander and they're not as obvious. Tells
to be able to tie this out. So the audio
cues ended up being invaluable in that sense.
Speaker 3 (04:59):
I had I had could close my eyes.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
I did that sometimes too.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
Yeah yeah, yeah, just because so because the visual the
visuals will distract you from the audio, and I would
just have to I mean, I guess I could have
just turned the the sound effects up.
Speaker 3 (05:16):
I guess, but the visuals. You're so used to playing
video games, playing you know, very your twitch muscles are
so used to visual cues that I would have to
close my eyes and I could hear the audio cues
louder like I wasn't distracted by It's this game is
(05:37):
This game is great, man, This game is really really
good and uh and like you, Brad, I immediately sent
a text to Brad and Terrence.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (05:49):
It was like, so, you know, let's talk about the end.
And I had a discussion with Terrence and and he
picked the He he made a similar choice as you
and and I.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
We talked.
Speaker 3 (06:03):
I talked to Brad about it, and then I did
what I shouldn't do, and I I I got one ending,
and then I went to the other ending to see
it online, and then I dove into the comment section
just a look. I'm not a comment or, but just
a look. And some of those takes are just kind
of wild man. But but yeah, I had a had
(06:24):
a really good time with his game. I want to
go back and play somebody these harder bosses and.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
Yeah, yeah it's it's and and and you and I
were joking earlier when we were chatting because like they're
so like, I really hope that this game, like some
of the things that they do in the game, reverberate
through other games in the industry for a really long time.
(06:53):
Like like just some of the things that I noticed
as we were going through is like trust your players
to absorb the story without it being spoon fed. Like
I literally cannot recall a single scene in this game
where you get like the exposition dump that you typically
(07:14):
get from a lot of characters in other games, where
they just well they'll sit there for five minutes like hey,
like let's let's give you the backstory of all this
stuff that's important to know to understand the context around
this obviously. Like the most famous example is Kojima with
the codec conversations in like a Metal Gear Solid game
that go through multiple cut scenes and stuff like that,
but like just let the characters have conversations, like I
(07:39):
don't need to be told, Like like, there's a lot
of complex lore in this game, especially as you get
to like the last third of it basically where they
really just start bombarding you with things that happen, but
it's not done through you know, like a character like hey,
so like back, you know, back like after Aleen went
(08:02):
into the painting and daed it out, like the like
the you know, redwab made the fracture happen, and the
fracture split the continent into multiple things, and it's like
like they don't do that. They just fucking talk about
the stuff that they've experienced and things like that, and
you know, Ren while talking like, hey, I've been in
this painting for sixty seven years trying to get her
out and all this stuff, and they show you like
(08:22):
like they show you the things that happened, like like
they tell you more in that ten minute scene where
you take control in that little epilogue scene where you
take control of Alicia and talk to your sister before
she goes into the painting herself, and you've learned pretty
much a lot of what you need to know just
(08:42):
through them conversing. And then you find out how Mail came,
you know, into existence in the painted world and stuff
like that, and so like that's a huge thing, like
like it's it's so easy just to And I wasn't lost,
like obviously, like as the game was going on, I
was confused as fuck because like there was there was
(09:02):
obvious allusions to things, like it was obvious that Mail
and Alicia had some sort of connection, though it wasn't
obviously clear what it was. And there you know, it
was obvious that you know, the Caretaker had you know,
it was effectual in some way, shape or form, but
it wasn't clear what that was. It got really confusing
(09:22):
too when the paintress was like cursing him out late
later on and ship like that. So that's like one thing,
right is, is don't be afraid to leave things unsaid, right, Like,
it's okay for your world to have a little bit
of mystery. It's okay for people like like there's like
the big thing in this one.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Who are the writers and who are the painters?
Speaker 1 (09:47):
And what is going on with this massive fucking conflict,
And they just they don't even bother addressing it.
Speaker 2 (09:51):
They're like, yeah, higher level meta thing. Now, that does
certainly set it up for something like us equal to explore,
you know, what that conflict is. I have seen one
theory based on how Cleia acts in cut scenes, especially
(10:12):
in the verso ending, where it's it's almost as if
she's like kind of unaffected by what's going on around her.
And there's some theories where like if it's a painting
within another painting and that and that like Cleia kind
(10:33):
of knows what's actually going on, but she's probably the
only one like in that family with like a real
clue that like the rest of them aren't entirely real
or some shit like that, which you know, get the
inception bullshit going. But yeah, I mean, obviously it's this
whole deal of like you have this kind of like
(10:55):
micro conflict that is a lean and renoirs fighting over
like versus canvas and whatnot because Aleen can't move on
from her grief basically, right, And then the higher level
conflict is Cleia just being like, can you guys fucking
(11:17):
get over it because we have there's bigger fish to
fry here. Like, so yeah, that's certainly leaves the door
open for some fun sequel stuff with this whole situation.
Speaker 3 (11:32):
Something else I hope that you know, future developers take
when they inevitably rip this game off. Is as elegant
as this game is with its storytelling, it's also pretty elegant.
And it's like level design and level design, you know,
(11:58):
it's it's essentially a mace, right, But and it does
the thing that games always do where there is a
critical path that you can follow and there is a
way that you can follow it, you know, by following
the lights.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But it's it didn't even notice that, honestly.
Speaker 3 (12:22):
Yeah, like you can, you can if you just want to,
if for whatever reason, you get lost, you just look
towards the light and there are lights, you know, strewn about.
But like the thing is, you didn't notice that, right,
and and you were still able to navigate right or
you were still able to explore right. It's so elegantly done.
(12:43):
It's not just here's a slab of yellow paint on
a on a on a building. Yeah right, here's a
here's a here's a white ledge with yellow paint hanging
from the bottom of it. Oh, I guess this is
where I need to go. Like it's it's again. It
goes back to the point of to your point of
(13:05):
trusting your audience to be smart.
Speaker 5 (13:09):
Right.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
I also really like that this story, you know, it's
an RPG, and usually RPGs are like you know, especially
like like turn based RPGs, e folk, like Japanese RPGs,
and like Japanese RPGs, you're like a teenager that has
to kill God at the end of it, right, Like
this is this is such a really personal story with
(13:33):
characters that are it's a mature story. And when I
say mature, I'm not like, you know, people bumping uglies
and you get to see.
Speaker 2 (13:42):
T like titties and guns, right.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Right, But like there's there's romance options and stuff, but
like you know, it's classy, there.
Speaker 1 (13:51):
Are and it's but it's not explicit. It's not like
it's always rewarded with the fucking sex scene and that.
Speaker 2 (13:58):
You know, I know that I didn't know that. I
didn't know that they were like romance options. So no,
I mean, it is though it is a it is
a very it's mature in a way that is still
like rated tea for Team though right like it is,
it's it's a different kind of maturity. It is an
emotionally mature game more so than it is like a
(14:19):
sort of visually mature game.
Speaker 1 (14:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Yeah, and but then you know they deal with concept.
Like one of my favorite characters is cl I know,
everybody like has a heart arm for Lune, right, probably
because she's like the more attractive conventionally of the two,
but I was, I kind of was drawn towards cl
You're getting her backstory, man, Like it's so sad and
(14:45):
it's so like, like you, the way these characters are written,
you you you really do get the point of view.
You really do get Alicia slash male point of view
at the end of the game and why she wants
to do this right, and you know you it It
(15:09):
can be a hard decision for people. And so I
chose Verso because I learned from a very very young
age that wallowing in grief does not help. It will
not help you. And and but the you know, the
(15:33):
game is, the game is like, here's this traumatic thing
that happened to c l And you know, Luney doesn't
feel like she has the respect of her parents, and
you know it, and you get Alicia slast Mil's like horrific,
you know story of course you want to and you
(15:55):
know this this is you are playing this character or
this character is you know, you you come to grow
with this character. His character is a teenager, right, someone
who has to who has to grow up before their time.
And you you you really wanna, you really want to
go to her and say and choose her ending, right,
(16:16):
But like I get that, But at the same time, like, yeah,
it just doesn't it everything that Verso a very shady
character right by design, you know, lies through a mission
a lot. But so it's easy to like not want
(16:40):
it's easy to not want to pick him, especially like
if you pick his ending, you see the look that
lune gives vers So at the end Jesus christ Man
like like if looks could kill.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Well, that's and that's the funny thing. And I want
to talk about the endings in a little bit, but
I I really want to just even explore like because
the game deals with such mature themes and subject matter,
like the whole Disander family is, like all of them
are written really spectacularly because like they're written humanly, like
(17:16):
more so than characters typically are in games like this
where you where you often find, especially in JARPG specifically,
which this game is, I think, a much more closely
model towards like most of the characters that you find
tend to be very tropy, right, like like you know
you have like the Gallon hero and and again I
(17:36):
you know, I like those characters too, and there's certainly
a place where as a story like that. But like
all five members of that family both have positive and
negative traits that are firmly put, you know, set in
front of you as the game goes along, you know
what I mean, Like like Verso has like his family's
best intentions aside, but to Mike's point, like he's he's
(17:58):
very duplicitous and and and very shady towards the other
characters in the party because he has an ultimate goal
that he's trying to achieve that he knows they won't
want to go along with. And like even Mayel, who
is who eventually emerges as like the chief protagonist in
this game, ends up falling, like ends up fallible in
(18:19):
the same exact way that her mother was, which you
find out as you pick her ending, which her ending
goes from like initially like like uplifting, you know, you know,
once you get past like the really sad Verso scene
where he's like begging her to basically end his life.
(18:40):
But then you're like, oh, like everyone's back, this is great,
and then it's a little unsettling when like you see
Gustav like come back in and Sophie come back at
the opera house, and then it's obviously like really unsettling
once Verso like appears on stage and he's like old
(19:00):
Verso but he but he's like you definitely don't want
to fucking like he doesn't want to be a part
of this thing, but he kind of knows he has to.
And then of course, like the the last shot before
before like the fate like like not even the fade
to black and the snapped to black is like of
you know, male like falling to the same like painted
(19:22):
world corruption, like like the origins of that, and it
turns into like a really like horrifying ending actually where
you're just like, oh, like this is absolutely like the
wrong choice, like like a very monkey's paul, like, yeah,
let me be happy in the painted world. Oh no,
like this is no.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Ultimately, letting her be happy in the painted world is
to essentially enable a delusion, right, like, to to enable
a a falsity so that she can pretend that, you know,
her brother didn't die, that she can pretend that she
(20:03):
wasn't scarred up in that fire or anything like that,
and they can just you know, again just pretend, pretend
that it didn't happen. And that is a deeply unhealthy
way to live. And of course that's going to start
to come across in the form of that kind of
you know, corruption of their bodies. Right, So theres an
(20:27):
interesting way to sort of express that.
Speaker 3 (20:30):
I think there are many many people who feel like
males ending, according to like YouTube commenters, right, so yeah, whatever,
but that feel like males ending is the happy, happy end.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Well, and but there is a point to be made
like with like with versus ending, like when you basically
like erase like like the painted world, like there is
some sadness in there too, aside from like like you know,
Male's fate as a result of that and would happen
until like the last message of versa. But at the
same time, like those characters in Lumier, though they are
(21:05):
part of a facade, also have agency and hopes and
dreams and things they're fighting.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
And that's right, that's the argument against the versal ending
that I've seen, Like that's the consensus, right, that that
each of those characters is real to them, right, Like, yeah,
they have they feel real, therefore they are real even
if the game says no, they're fake, though they're not, right, Like,
(21:35):
who are you to say that those people who believe
they are real are not real? And it's an interesting
it's an interesting uh question to ponder. But I felt that,
you know, for the sake of this girl and her
(21:56):
family in what I am receiving as the real world,
like you know, I want you to get better. Also,
it kind of it kind of robs her of her
own agency, right, Like that's another thing that I saw,
but like at the same time, like we have to
(22:17):
remember that, like she's like sixteen seventeen something like, right,
she's a kid. She's a child, and sometimes you know,
That's another thing I liked about this game. The party
members are adults, and they are very much adult coded, right,
Like they're not like, you.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Know, high schoolers.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
There's nothing wrong with high school protagonists. But I'm forty five.
I can't relate to that. So for pure yourselfish reasons.
Speaker 2 (22:50):
No, but like isn't like Gustav is like thirty ten.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
They're all thirty two. Like everyone the expedition is thirty.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Two, thirty two except for my own we're younger.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
Correct, Yes, yeah, but again, like it's I really wish
that like like I I don't recall characters written so
just like I said, humanly is it's kind of it's
kind of the word to the best word I can.
I can I can use to describe that because they're
written like like they talk like people talk, and they're
(23:21):
written like like like to have motivations that people have,
Like there's every I mean, there's a reason why the
five Stages of grief you know, literally exists, and it's
just that you know, Aleen just got stuck on denial
and they like like they moved, they refuse to move
on to like the next the next stage basically, So.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
It's amazing you can you can, like video games are
a power fantasy, right, like, and it's amazing. Like what
most people do in their power fantasy, right is that
you're just a super soldier and armor and and and
you know with what you're a walking gun, right and.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Those games and those games advertised like oh, like you're
embodying the character like this character like you.
Speaker 3 (24:06):
It's amazing that you can't have human like real real
characters and still have the power fantasy. Like it's amazing.
I don't know how they did it.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Well, let's take a quick pause for a commercial break,
and then we'll be back to talk more about Clared Skarre.
Mike you when we went to break, you were talking
about like, you know, having relatable characters and power fantasy.
It's interesting that, like we've seen games, there are lots
of games that have really memorable characters, well written characters,
(24:44):
like you think of the Uncharted series, for example, Like
the character or actions of that game are really are
really good. But there's just something about this game, just
because it's grounded in more realistic themes that just made
me connect with the characters more than I would typically
(25:05):
do Inven and even something where you have characters that
are really well written and well acted and and have
like these emotional bonds that you can feel. But also
there's a fucking Indiana Jones movie happening around them, so
you can't, like you have you have to live somewhere,
(25:26):
you know, outside of the reality, I guess and.
Speaker 3 (25:30):
Look as much as as much as I love like like,
it still does the it still does the thing kind
of that like BioWare does, where it's like you do
a mission, you go back to your hub and you
talk to people. Right, you do a mission, you go
back to your hub and talk to people, and that's
(25:51):
how you But you can kind of regulate that, right
you can. There are there are triggers, right, but you
can go to your camp in any time and try
to spend time with these people and you know you'll
run out of dialogue options at some point then you
need to put wrest a little further. But it just
(26:11):
you I think this game does a very good job
of developing those relationships while you are playing and while
you you know, they make the most out of their downtime,
Like it doesn't necessarily feel like, Okay, I gotta I
gotta talk to Garrison, then I gotta talk to Miranda,
(26:31):
and then I gotta talk to Rex, and then I
gotta talk to Like it, I don't know, it feels
a little more organic. Well, no, I think they just
do it a little more eloquently.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
Well, there's there's the reason why. It's one of the
things I thought about, like one of the other lessons
that I hope it's learned. If you have a if
you have a twenty five hour story to tell, tellt
in twenty five hours, don't don't try to stretch a
twenty five hour story across the seventy hour game, because
that's where the fatigue sets in with having to do
(27:05):
all this stuff. And because the game, because like the
main pathing of the game is so dense with these
like emotional moments and like the characters bonding with each
other and things like that, it almost makes the camping
parts like like the characters like are much like like
(27:28):
the characters. You almost feel like exhale in those moments
and you are too, because like there's all this other
heavy shit happening when you're not in camp. Essentially, it's
but assuming you're not like gallivanting on like side missions
and and shit like that obviously as well, But like,
I like, I feel like that those again, they feel
organic because you are truly alongside the characters in that regard,
(27:55):
and it gives them a chance to just kind of
let their hair down a little bit, to get a
little bit more personal things you can't do during these
you know, missions and stuff like that. But it just
doesn't again, it's kind of illusionary, and it to some extent,
it just doesn't feel as superficial as it feels in
a lot of other games, and especially in like a
Mass Effect, where like you know, to micas point, you
(28:17):
have like fucking twelve people to check in with on
the Normandy every time, every every time you go back
and so and and and obviously, like your level of
of of caring as personally about those characters is going
to vary wildly from character to character. Like like it's
almost like when next time I go to play Mass Effect,
(28:38):
I might roleplay it a little bit heavier, where it's
like I'll have my characters that I kind of stick
with and then I want to check in on and
see what's going on. And then like a cad and
you over here like you're good, you all right cool,
Like I'll I'll catch you in the next one.
Speaker 3 (28:53):
Okay, Ashley, you're STI little racist, stay over it, like
you said, like you said, less is more right. Yeah,
the fewer characters gives you more time to spend with
them and get to know them. And they're incredibly fucked
up stories and and you know, less there's there's stuff
(29:20):
that there's plenty of stuff to do in the game.
But like you said, if you just want to, if
you are engrossed into this story, then you can just
be engrossed in you can. You can. You can play
the story right, you don't. There's no grinding needed.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
There's a little bit of grinding, a little bit something
you're good you could brew force it. Yeah, like like
like if you're a carry god, like, yeah, you don't
have to work. You don't have to grind ship. It
might take you a little longer to be the battles,
but uh, but you can. You can make you work
for yourself. It's another thing I have down to Like,
if you're gonna put side quests in your big RPGs,
Like that's great, we want to make him a little
(30:01):
bit more diegetic then a lot of games like like
Claire Obscurity does have like the minimal amount of hay,
can you find my wallet side quests, like especially early
on when you come across the different nevrons that are like, oh,
I'm missing my thing that I need, can you help
me find it? But it's but again, it's not like
when you do that, it's not putting a quest marker
on your map saying, hey, go here to find this
(30:23):
thing and then come back to this guy. Like if
you find it when you're exploring, cool, and then you
can go back. You can just fast travel back because
usually there's a flag right by them, and then you
can complete that little thing. Or the other thing that
I really enjoyed is have like again, they have all
these little caves and little groves and stuff like that
(30:44):
just kind of littered across the map that you would
find through natural explanation. Like I understand why they didn't
do this, and I'm kind of glad they did. He
didn't do this, but like, how cool would it have
been if they're like all right, cool, Like the next
the next place we got to go with the Stonewave Cliffs,
but they don't mark it on your map like like
(31:06):
like that, like they have the little icons to show
the different like hey, here's the different areas you can explore.
But what if they were just like all right, cool,
yeah Stonewight Cliffs, all right, explore figure it out, like
go like go find it. And then like I think
about how cool it would have been to stumble across
some of these those little side areas, like especially the
areas that are very clear, like the one screen areas
(31:29):
that are very clearly Final Fantasy seven inspired, where you
have like like the single art images that you can
just kind of walk walk around in to just get
a sense of scale for this like really interesting looking place.
Like that's cool, Like like I appreciate the fact that
I didn't have a questlog, that I had the check
boxes and say all right, now it's time to do
this side quest. Now it's time to do that side quest.
(31:50):
And of course the fact you have like like the
like the uber bosses just kind of hanging out on
the map. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, you want to
you want to roll up to this guy, like cool,
have fun. Hope, hope you don't get fucking curve stumped.
Speaker 3 (32:04):
Waiting to jump their big head on your ass twenty
four times?
Speaker 1 (32:08):
What I thought that dude before I beat the paintress
and I'm just like like, after a couple of rounds,
it's like, well, I could beat this battle because I
have the timing down perfectly, but I'm gonna be here
for forty five minutes, just fucking right, head annoying.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Oh man? What else did I like about this game?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
You joked.
Speaker 3 (32:35):
That developers will take all the wrong lessons.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Right, the only the only lesson that Eddie developers is
gonna learn this game is more Perry's like, that's it.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
Like there's not like has been such a thing like
that being said, Like I do, I do like I
like to see a different kind of developer embrace a
turn based system. I hope that's one of the lessons learned,
is that not everything has to be some like finicky
(33:11):
action RPG.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
I feel like.
Speaker 2 (33:15):
Maybe this is the kind of game to usher in
like a different kind of renaissance of turn based games.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
I feel like this is the I feel like that
this is like the crest of that wave. I feel
like that we've had a really good renaissance in the
past ten years of kind of a return to turn
based games. Like you look at the Fair Travelers, you.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Know, the run Off, the you know Undertail. Obviously the
personas have uh, I mean they've been turn based.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Right, But but Persona five was like the first one
to reach the mainstream I would say into in terms.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
Of Yeah, I guess in the grand scheme of things,
like three and four were still relatively niche. I think
four is a little like I. Four was like scratching
mainstream success a little bit.
Speaker 3 (34:13):
Yeah, four four started attracting people like me. Five hooked me.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, and and and so. But like just the way
that they even beyond so like combat, like we talked
about Perry's like, it's cool that you can brute force
your way through this game if you're good enough. It's
also cool that for tinkers like me, like they put
in the ability to build like the dumbest things possible.
(34:44):
I I literally have never respect characters in an RPG
more than I have in this game. Like, like I
was doing so many of those fucking respect stones to
reload skills and reload attributes, to to craft them around,
like the skill setup that I had and stuff like that.
But the thing that's brilliant because like I said that,
(35:07):
that's a system that is rife for abuse for certain
types of characters. The thing that's brilliant about it is
they keep the limitter on you until you're right before
the end of the game. Because until you get that
picto that lets you exceed the damage cap, like you
can build the Brokeus build you want, you're still only
(35:29):
going to hit for nine nine nine nine maximum on
every hit. But then as you go into act three,
like like me and me and Johnny were talking earlier
today as well about this, and he's like, yeah, I
wish they didn't give you that thing until you beat
the game. I was like, see, that's I disagree because perfect.
It's perfect because to me, like the Paintress is the
boss fight that the game is building towards, and Act
(35:53):
three is almost like not quite a victory lap, but
it's like this is the story resolution act. And it
also makes narrative sense for Mayl to go super saying
in Act three, given like what you uncover and what happens,
so like getting that picto at that time is actually perfect,
so they let you fucking go ham and and and like, hey,
(36:15):
you build these broke bills. Cool, enjoy your twenty k
or or more billions of damage per hit that some
people have done out there builds. And then if you
want to do New game plus, like you really get
to to fucking go crazy at that point as well,
Like you can really go nuts, but we're also going
to beef up the enemies to fight you, so like
do setting it up that way to have that system
(36:38):
in the game, knowing that they could be exploited. But
they're like, you know what, we're going to keep a
lid on this until we're ready to let it pop off.
Like we're like, you're still going to have real you know,
have the experience that we want you to have essentially,
and that's that's when you can start cracking off on
some of those optional bosses, like some of the harder ones,
because you it's it's really not feasible unless you want to, uh,
(37:00):
unless you want to grind it out for an hour
to fight some of those guys until you.
Speaker 3 (37:05):
Say that's it. Also, yeah, it also prevents you know,
when I play on RPG, it depends on if I
really like the way the game plays. I just want
to dominate, right, Like I will sit there, put a
podcast on and just grind and grind and grind and
grind right until I am until I can't lose because
I'm too powerful. Right, But like you said, keeping the
(37:28):
quad nine limitter on prevents you from doing that, and
then it makes you feel so much more powerful when
when the shackles are off, and it just it feels
good man, Like you know, like yeah, man, people people
(37:48):
know what they're doing, and they knew what the and
then and and and look at them.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Is this the best? Uh, it's not really a job system,
but like is this the best like job adjacent system
that you've seen?
Speaker 3 (38:03):
The Pictol system. The Pictol system is really it's really
brilliant because like you said, it's I mean it's almost
it's it's virtually limitless, right, like in the way that
you can like really theory craft and you can have Ye,
(38:26):
everybody's got the same four or five characters that all
have the potential to do the same thing, but everybody
could have something different. And there are like as a
ton don't know how many pictos there are, there are
a ton of them to the point where they're like, yeah,
you might want to favorite some of these so you
don't have to keep scrolling it.
Speaker 1 (38:45):
You could do that. I wish you could because I
kept like looking for the same but but it was
just so fun to fuck around with it because it
is so easy to like, like in a game like
Diaba Writer at AARPG, like if you want to change
up your that's hard, like you have to like revamp
through like skill trees and paragon trees and stuff like that,
because like it changes your stats and you need to
(39:07):
hold your gear and all this other stuff like in
this game, Like like I was just like, what, like,
you know, when I first was having some trouble with
some of the like the mid game bosses a little bit,
and I was like, yeah, I was like I need
to probably pay more attention to how I'm specking out,
you know. The team with the skills is like, what
if I take Monoco and I put all these like
(39:28):
health boosting pictos on him, but I make it so
that he can't be healed, but he does additional damage
and also takes half damage because he can't be healed,
And what if I also give him like a free revive,
like in the middle of combat. So that now like
he can just be this tank that can so call
this damage. But he's also there to pick up the
team and I get seven thousand hit points with him
(39:49):
because he gets to get picked up at least one time,
and I can also manually rest him if I need to,
and just like so like all right, this is my dude,
this is what he's gonna do. And then I have,
you know, then I have like Lune, and Lune is
gonna be like the glass cannon like I'm gonna be
I'm gonna use all of her skills that you know,
generate additional stains on crits, but I'm also gonna max
(40:09):
the fuck out of her luckstats and I'm generating chrits
like fifty percent of the time, and you know then
and to build up to her big like her big uh.
I don't remember what it's called genesis, Yeah, that one,
like like to be able to build up to that
and just and just and just annihilate people like like
that attack like against the Paintress, Like I literally took
off like half her lifebar in the second phase with that,
(40:32):
and I wasn't even that over. I wasn't even that
over leveled or I wasn't over leveled at all, Like
I just like that attack. Just that just that fucking
silly because it has like a ridiculously specific setup process
to be able to execute it. But it works like
like amazingly well, so like like it's.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
So rewarding, you know, like it's I mean, if you're
a tinkerer, like if you, if you just want if you,
if you, if you love like men maxing and shit, like,
this game is not for people who have trouble making decisions. Yeah,
you're gonna be like I don't know what, I don't
know what I'm gonna do, But that that system is
(41:11):
actually really really it's really really brilliant and it leads
to so much creativity. I mean, you know it.
Speaker 2 (41:20):
It kind of reminds me of what's that the Ginny
system from Golden Sun, insomuch that like all of them,
like you know, for those unfamiliar, like there's different types
and you can align them all with like the adept
(41:41):
of the same like elemental type basically, but you can
also mix and match to create like different abilities and
give yourself different kinds of stat boosts and stuff like that,
and it's very very flexible in a very similar way
to the Picto system, with a lot of creative options
(42:02):
to give yourself and your party to kind of expand
your your abilities in very different ways.
Speaker 3 (42:07):
So, I mean, I wouldn't be surprised if it's if
that game was an inspiration like this.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
That's that is One thing about clare Obscurity is it
is not shy about what it is cribbing.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
From, Like why should they be. I mean, it's it's
it's it's very much reminding me of like the the
Apple method of kind of of of development, where it's like, hey,
like we're not gonna do this first, like we're gonna
let all these other companies like beta test these features,
but like when we do it, it's gonna be it's
gonna be really good, and it's gonna be like the
(42:40):
most optimized version of this system. So it kind of
reminded me of that in a lot of ways. Plus,
of course, like all the characters have you know, like
specific weapons that you can get that all set around
specific elements and have their own special stats and unlocks
that you can do for those as well. That also
feeds in into the build and things of that nature.
(43:04):
Having five characters is also quite funny to me and
hurts my OCD like when the first round, like when
the first row troops goes down and then then you're
stuck with two. Yeah, there's also a boss, an optional
boss fight that plays with that mechanic as well.
Speaker 3 (43:24):
You can't like switch them out, right, Like, some characters
are taken out of the battlefield and you can't, like
I mean, correct me if I'm wrong. You can't, if
all three of your or if the three characters that
you start with, you can't like swap out no, not
(43:45):
on the fly. Yeah, you can't. You can't even when
characters are taken off the battlefield, right, Like there's one
character that I had this really grueling fight for a
max Relationship level or Lune, and the the monster would
like swallow some of your your party members and it's
(44:10):
just like what the fuck man? And and you can't
like bring them back. The only way that I found
out you can bring them back is if you break
the monster and then the monster will give one of
your characters back. I don't know if that's with everyone,
because like other mandatory bosses try to, you know, vanish.
Speaker 1 (44:28):
You renwas, It's just it's an unreversable death essentially when.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
He when he does right, so you gotta like you
gotta parry it, right, I I can't. I can't remember
you can.
Speaker 1 (44:41):
Yeah, it's it's a it's a Grady encounter maneuver.
Speaker 3 (44:43):
So oh yeah, that's right, that's right. And but yeah,
this boss like it was it was the most exciting
fight that I had in the game, because it's like
my my, my, my all around damage person mayl is gone, right,
and my my steadfast like Verso is. He's essentially like
(45:07):
my my jack of all trades, master of none right,
like he can like he can heal himself, and then
I have picto's where if he kills, where if an
ally is healed, then the other people get part of
that health. And and he was gone, and it's just Lune.
And I'm desperately desperately trying to Lune across a lot
(45:30):
of setup to use effectively, right, And I'm desperately trying
to use certain moves to give me certain stains. I'm
even like, I'm even like free aiming, like I'm like,
please let me get a red stain. Please let me
get a red stain. Please let me get a restain
and then I once I and then I got all
(45:51):
four of them because I was desperate, man. At this point,
I was just like, you know what, fuck it like
pop pop pop pop pop, right, And I got all
four different stains and I said, holy shit. And then
I hit them with Elemental Genesis and it broke them
and then it one popped out. It was it was amazing.
It was such a I hadn't had a feeling like
(46:12):
this in a game in a very very long time,
where just like things were working, but it was. It
was exciting because I was like on the edge of
my seat, like I was on the brink of death,
and then bam, here comes Mayl and I had to
I had like two or three stocks of of.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
I can't I can't remember what it is what they're called,
but the when you use your specials and you and
the meter goes up and you gained the two stories.
Speaker 1 (46:45):
Moves, yeah yeah, and then.
Speaker 3 (46:47):
One of Male's is is like a like a phoenix
move or some ship like it was.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
It was.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
It was fucking amazing, man, And yeah, like it was.
It was an exciting boss fight and and like all
the fights, they're not as exciting as that, but all
of none of the fights are like automatic at least oh.
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Well, it's impossible considering unless you're one shotting something because
like like you're so op, like that's the only way
that's gonna happen. When when I when I beat the
Final Boss, like when I beat Final runwa, I I
was down to my last character, cl was the only
person left standing, and she was relatively low health, and
(47:30):
it was like a situation where it's like, all right,
he had like a third his health part let's give
or take. And I was just like, all right, I
can play it safe. Like I was out of revive
tintse right, so I was like, all right, I can
play it safe and heal up and try to hope
that I get an attack that I can parry or
at least dodge to to stay safe. Or she she
(47:52):
has maximum AP, I can go for her like nine
AP like super move. I don't know if it's gonna
do enough damage because I didn't have any like fortel
to be able to to strip off or anything like that.
And and like she like she nailed it, like and
I had Roulette on her as well, so like like
every hit connected for double damage and ship like that
(48:14):
something and and I want And then the game fucking
tricked me because like they did the thing where like
you have the character like like when the boss, like
when it refuses to lose that laugh, like that last
smidge of help, and it's like, oh, fuck man, there's
a phase three, like god damn it, Like I can't believe.
And then Nail like comes in from nowhere. Yeah, she's
like no game game over, game over. So I'm just like, oh,
(48:38):
thank fucking god. That's incredible. So the last thing that
I wanted to talk about, uh is something that I
was amazed that they did it. For my money, the
the Gustav killing at the end of Act one probably
(49:01):
the most surprising character death since the one that everyone references.
Yeah since Eric, it's.
Speaker 3 (49:10):
It's super effective.
Speaker 1 (49:12):
But but the thing that was amazing about it to
me is as the game moved on, it became like
a like like a contextual important thing to happen in
the narrative. Like obviously, like for Mayl that's hugely important.
(49:32):
It echoes you know her, you know, like Alicia's same
thing where she lost like a brother essentially and around
the same age and stuff like that. But It wasn't
a what's what's the word that I use? I haven't.
I have notes. I talked a lot about a lot
of this stuff. Fuck man, where the hell is uh?
(49:55):
Where the hell is the note that I said. Oh,
it wasn't a consequential death like like like my, my,
the fear is when you kill the main character like
that early in the game, is that like the specter
of that character is going to hang over like the
rest of the game and he'll possibly be you know,
(50:16):
involved in like the plot in some way, shape or
form later on. Like I saw a video essay talk
about they were afraid that when they like like late
in the game, when Mayel is kind of not reviving
but like reanimating like the corpses of a lot of
the expedition ears to help assault, to help assault the city,
(50:38):
that you were that like they were going to give
you Gustav back into your party, right, you were going
to get to use like reanimated Gustav and stuff like that,
And a lesser game would have, right because you know
they they they rope a dope here so well in
that game by like hey, like we built a whole
last skill tree for this guy and we have like
a whole like so that they so that you really
didn't see it coming, but they didn't do that. They're
(51:01):
just like, yeah, like his death is important in the
narrative and then the story, and yeah, like we gotcha,
Like we hired a big you know, like a a
big name actor to voice this character that doesn't last
past like eight hours into the game, Like gotcha, bitch,
Like how did that gut punch feel? But like it
wasn't the most important, It wasn't the central focus of
(51:22):
the game. And much in the same way that Earth's
death kind of lingers over the rest of the Final
Fantasy Vin and she becomes like a necessary cog in
the story in order for the character, even in death,
for the characters to achieve their aims essentially, And I
just really appreciated how they took this like massively impactful
(51:42):
thing that was legitimately impactful, but diminished its impact somewhat
like as the rest of the game went along, because
they're like, no, we have like an actual like story
to tell that's not centered around this one man, you
know that we framed as the central the central focus
of the game.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
Yeah, it's it's great storytelling. It's it is, uh, it
subverts traditional you know, usually usually women are fridged so
that you know, the male, the obvious male hero can
(52:25):
find the motivation to get off his ass and do something.
And with this, like you said, like Gustave is, they
kind of flip that where you're stereotypical male hero is
just taken away from you and they give you another.
(52:50):
But it's not about him, right, Like it's about male
and it's they and and like the women in the
story are the most interesting characters in it. And I
don't know if people realize that, like the game, especially
(53:13):
in this climate that we're in where it's like I
don't girls bad, you know, like the most powerful character
is a teenager. The women who have the most, the
women of the more interesting stories, the the the the painterress.
(53:34):
The person that you think is the proper villain of
the story is this woman. Like it's I don't know.
I just and they've written and like you said, they've
written all like humans and like, so it's possible. So
I don't want to I don't want to see you know,
there's no there's literally no excuse no. And they're all white,
(53:58):
so there's literally no excuse that anybody can come and
say that this is oh.
Speaker 1 (54:04):
Well, this is.
Speaker 5 (54:07):
Whatever whatever they do, right, what else you guys got, Look,
the game is great, man, the game is great.
Speaker 2 (54:19):
Music's really solid.
Speaker 1 (54:20):
Yeah, oh yeah, talking about that fucking that whole soundtrack
slaps the slaps like crazy.
Speaker 4 (54:26):
Great.
Speaker 2 (54:26):
Soundtrack is great, and that this was like this guy's
first time really doing a soundtrack. To a degree, you
can kind of tell that it's this person sort of
first day out. As far as like a big soundtrack,
I do think that there's a degree of inconsistency, and
I do think there's almost like an inconsistency in terms
of like the production of some of the tracks.
Speaker 1 (54:46):
But I only noticed it as you're going through Lumiere,
when they tried to do the thing whereas you go
to different sections of the city, the audience, like the
song changes, and they tried to do like the Octopath
Traveler thing where they like very eloquently like move from
one song into the next. But it's not not handled
one hundred percent well. And there's some understanding there because
(55:08):
you can't necessarily control you know, the player's wins running
that to and fro from different areas, so like I
kind of get it. But the like I said, there
was a lot of variety on the soundtrack for sure,
Like like you would expect a game like this to
have a lot of really somber tunes and stuff like that.
(55:30):
There certainly are, but there's also some fucking bangers and
again like the big boss fights, like the ones that
you need to get amped up for, Like they did
a really good job scoring music that's gonna like get
you like some like let's go, like we're gonna find
like we're gonna fucking do this. It's a like like
Redwall's whole theme and the evolution of that theme, the
battle theme specifically, and the evolution of that theme through
(55:52):
those three fights is pretty cool, to the point where,
like the third version, it almost becomes like an like
a new metal songs come through. So very very good ship. Yeah,
it soundtracks great for sure.
Speaker 3 (56:09):
I think. Lastly for me is just the environments are
really striking, Like the art design is pretty amazing. Every
whorld felt like a painting and they all have like
different feels, especially like when you go to some of
the optional areas once Escape can like fly you to
(56:31):
different locations and and I can't remember some of the names,
but like Flying Waters was a trip. There was one
optional area that was like a red like a red
forest or something like that, and everything was like red
and white and it was it was much more vertical
(56:52):
than than some of the other ones. But then they
have locations that are like you know, everybody knows, like
the several beaches there, And I just I really like
the use of color in uh in the game, Like
it's it's not it's not it wasn't afraid to like
(57:12):
just be different, and yeah, man, like it's it's each
little hub area is a world that you kind of
that that is inviting and wants you to explore, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:24):
What, and and and it's it's ironic because like the
map layouts are pretty rote, like they're pretty pedestrian. Like
there's not a lot of difference in the map playouts
in this game between this and like Final Fantasy thirteen,
which is like kind of the universally reviled as having
really poor area design. You know, you know why this
game gets away with it because it doesn't give you
(57:45):
a mini map like like like like if like like
if the game had a mini map, it would it
would have it would come under much more critical fire.
But because it doesn't, and because it's it's set, it
forces you to actually just explore the area yourself, even
though it's kind of pathing the right way forward for you,
it kind of gets away with it a little bit,
(58:06):
which which I find interesting. So last thing for me,
I just wanted on the record that we finally have
found a dog that Micah actually genuinely likes, because Minoca
is the family dog man.
Speaker 3 (58:28):
Look, look if if the dog can talk and have
the rapport that that Brian Griffin has with Peter Griffin,
then yeah I and can like and can like do
the moves of other dogs, then yeah, okay, I'll give
(58:53):
it that, uh Minoca. Every character, Look, there's normally one
character that in in every like RPG, there's usually one
character that I just can't stand. And it's usually the
mascot character. Right, Like, as much as I really adore
the cast of Persona five, that that stupid cat got
on my damn nerves.
Speaker 2 (59:16):
I got a tattoo of the stupid cat.
Speaker 3 (59:21):
And and it's usually like mascot characters. This game has
two mascot characters that you interact with on a on
a regular basis. And I and they're both sweet, I love.
Speaker 1 (59:32):
Them and and and again, like it's the game does
a great job at telegraphing things without without you realizing
that they're telegraphs until you have context, like watching Verso's
interactions with Monoco and Ska specifically, once you know, once
you understand like that relationship and how the and and
(59:53):
what those characters represent, that that dialogue makes all the
fucking sense in the entire world. But it's just it's
just hanging out there for you and play in sight,
but you just don't realize it until you understand, until
you get the full scope of what's going on. And
again they'll explicitly tell you this. You have to go
explore and find out stuff for yourself or get specific
(01:00:17):
endings so that you see you know, you see characters
in different contexts and stuff like that to be able
to do that, because the game trusts you to look
for these things yourself.
Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
So that kind of game also locks you into an ending,
like you want the other ending, beat the game again.
Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
Yeah, go go back or go back through like play
through the entire like final area, like you can, like
like if you go back into your save after the
game ends, like it dumps you basically right before the
assault on Lumi Air. But if you want the other ending, like,
you're gonna have to go through that whole and dungeon
and final boss fight again if you want it.
Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
If you want it, so you gotta arn it.
Speaker 1 (01:00:53):
Yep. So that's gonna be it for the show this week. Again,
shorter show and just because of the dearth of news,
we wanted to do something a little different. Don't worry,
you're gonna get a much longer show next week because
we're going to talk about the switch to launch and
summer game fests. A lot of shit happened in the
in the world of gaming next week, so look alive
for that one. In the meantime, don't forget. You can
(01:01:15):
can ask us questions in the next Pistols Post Office,
which honestly is probably gonna get like a two week
delayed just because of how much we're gonna have the
cover next week. But you can do that by joining
our discord going to dence pixels dot com. Slash fans
of course, subscribe to the show on YouTube by going
to YouTube dot com slash tens pixels. You can find
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(01:01:38):
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It's just five dollars a month to show us a
little bit of love. That's gonna be it for us
this week. Thank you very much for watching it listening.
(01:02:00):
See you all the next time.
Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
See it.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah,