Is Dalton Kincaid a bust? Breakdown, evaluation, usage, & more | DC - Disguised Coverage

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's thirty eight. All bills can win.

Speaker 2 (00:01):
In here, Wake puts it down, the kick is on
the way and dock m.

Speaker 1 (00:06):
The bell good one? How the hell that one.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
Home?

Speaker 1 (00:11):
How one? They were a party one not party way? Incredible?

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Why not combat by my bell?

Speaker 3 (00:19):
Jacksonville's perfect record on the line right here.

Speaker 2 (00:27):
Quick.

Speaker 3 (00:30):
Kicking, look excited.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Touchdown Kyle Williams touchdound amazing, unbelievable. They puttied william who's

(00:54):
has to full back and he scores a touchdown. It's
wealthier to face tackle.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
What's good? Folks, Family, Friends, loved ones, Enemies, Friendemies, Wizards
which is Muggles mud Blood's People of Middle Earth to
another episode of disguised coverage. The only podcast that gives
you an equal amount of blueberries in each muffin and
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That is One Pipe Pizza. Find me online menu in
the episode show notes, whether here on YouTube or whichever
podcasting Apple platform you're listening to this show on. I

(01:39):
am your host, Anthony Prohaska. Find me on Twitter at
pro Underscore Underscore ant that's Pro two Underscores a n T.
Find me on Blue Sky at pro aunt, no underscore,
is there just p R, O, A and T. In
this episode of Disguised Coverage, we will be diving into
all things Dalton kincaid, a breakdown slash evaluation of his

(02:03):
skill set, his strengths, his areas of opportunity, his schematic usage,
how that compares to other young and successful and up
and coming tight ends in the league. We're going to
be using film and advanced metrics and having a holistic
discussion around the Buffalo Bills Year three tight end because

(02:23):
of just some of the recent discourse around him. Now,
I want to address this and we'll be speaking about
it at multiple points throughout the show. I'm sure I
know the thumbnail the graphic is seems like a little
dramatic potentially, but the reason I know labeled it and
kind of put bust on the graphic and then even
in the title here, you know, is Dalon kin Kate
a bus? So much of the conversation when I put

(02:46):
out a couple of weeks ago after the draft or
there was so much wide receiver discourse and not doing
enough to you know, have the Bills done enough to
support Josh Allen? Should they have taken a receiver earlier
in this most recent draft. Have they done enough in
the room, They've done enough to support Josh Allen, so on,
and so forth, the whole wgr and Brandon being things,
all of it. I put out a tweet later in

(03:07):
that week, a couple of weeks ago, just kind of
saying how Dalton Kincaid factors into that conversation that when
you're talking about the pass catchers for the Bills, it
can't just get boiled down to the wide receivers, positively
or negatively. Dalton Kincaid's trajectory and usage and production significantly
factors into the pass catching element of the Bills offense,

(03:30):
even though he's not a receiver. And then that ties
into the easy heat because he's a tight end. He's
more of a pass catching tight end. How does he
function as a blocker, How can he be? So on
and so forth. He's a first round pick the team
traded up for. That's kind of just how I put
that out there on Twitter, and Charles says, I don't
like the title of this episode, and we're gonna get
into it's not as dramatic from our perspective as we say.

(03:51):
As I said, but the reason I titled it that
was there were so many polarizing responses from folks, and
they really were at both ends of the spectrum. The
one end was, you know, he's still up and coming,
he's only going into year three or the injuries last year,
He'll be fine. I still believe in him. And then
the other end was, No, he's a bust, hasn't lived

(04:12):
up to a first round billing. I'm done with him.
That dropping the playoffs was the end all be all.
I've kind of washed my hands of him, so on
and so forth, and I wasn't expecting that level of
polarization around him. And because of that, and because of
how important a player I think he is to the team,
I wanted to put some things into perspective. So we're
going to dive into the metrics, dive into the tape
for Kinkaid in this episode, along with several other tight

(04:34):
ends in this episode, particularly Trey McBride, Sam Laport of
brock Bauers, three tight ends who Kinkaid gets compared to
a lot by Bills fans. Because I really wanted to
put the actual play style, production, the skill set, the usage,
all of it into perspective to properly rape this person.
Somewhat of a spoiler, I do not think Dalton Kinkaid
is a bust. I don't think my guest thinks Dalton

(04:56):
Kinkaid is a bust. But there are areas of opportunity
for him. There are limitations to his game along with
the strengths, and we are going to be diving into
all of those things in this episode. I mentioned my guest,
I am not alone in this episode. I am joined
by friend of the show, former member of Cover One,

(05:17):
particularly the Cover one film room with myself and Eric Turner,
now a big fancy man living in LA working for
the NFL, just big time wheeling and dealing out there
on the West Coast. I am joined by one of
my good friends and one of the people I love
talking football with the most, mister Kendall Mursky. Kend Of,
Welcome to the show.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Thank you for the time, of course, Man, thanks for
having me. Happy to be back. It's been a bit
of a hiatus, but you know, Draft season gets crazy
at NFL Network, and I'm sure it was just as
crazy for you with everything going on. So Man, happy
to be back and kind of happy to be in
the mellow part of the NFL season and just kind
of get to soak it all in a little bit

(05:56):
before we get right back on that hamster wheel.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
It's nuts how Eric and I were talking about it
yesterday in the film room, just how you know the
Bills play longer into the playoffs in an idea world
like they did they did this year. So you go
into the AFC Championship, so you still grind in Bills tape,
and then the championship weekend always leads into Senior Bowl
week so turnaround is nuts. There's no so there's no letup,

(06:22):
like the regular season ends and then it's like, oh, well,
now you're behind on draft stuff, so you got to
throw yourself into draft stuff. But before you can throw
yourself into draft stuff, you have to get through free agency.
So I'm scouring free agents. I'm scouting, dude, It's nuts.
I'm scouring that and like league trends, defensively, schematically off
on offense and defense, player evaluations, all these things. Free agency.

(06:46):
Then the draft comes around, draft prep kicks in, and
then you get you finished with the draft and you
kind of, yeah, have like this little bit of a
law where you have rookie mini camp before it leads
into you know, OTA's and actual training camp of the
pre season. But yeah, it's just it's this is kind
of like the LUW but also not. It's it's just nuts.

Speaker 3 (07:05):
It makes me wish I was a little bit older
and I had more resources during the drought years because
I was so like I had so much opportunity to
jump ahead because I was done with everything bills wise
in November December, turning the page forward. But like it's
so different now, you know, seasons ending in January. You know,

(07:27):
hopefully we'll get a season that ends in February. But like,
it's just crazy that turnaround time.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
It makes me kind of like that's like the one
silver lining that like if the Bills got eliminated and
like the wild n wait, I get to get ahead
on stuff. Yeah, I feel I guess I go into
draft prep now, like, which is okay to stay up
till two am night over night overnight and that's what
it is. And if I didn't have like the organization
I have during college football season to kind of already
tears some guys to know what my path is. I don't.

(07:55):
I feel like I feel so far behind the eight
ball that I wouldn't even be able to start. And yeah,
and so now we get into the spot where the
team is starting to take shape a bit, right, So
we got the draft. There's always a chance that some
guys get cut or some guys get signed, but I
don't know, it's hard to put a percentage on it,
but like ninety seven percent of what the bills are
in twenty twenty five is what this roster is right now.

(08:17):
And so now we get into the spot where we
start evaluating what this team will look like from you know,
in twenty twenty five and beyond potentially. You and I
have had so many discussions this offseason via text and
on this show about the state of this team, what
they look like going forward, needs for this year, but
also needs beyond, and how all of those things kind
of coalesce into one. And as I mentioned in the intro, yeah,

(08:42):
Dalton Kinkaid, just I guess I I should have anticipated
it because the social media, but even just in real life,
like I feel like there's a lot of polarizing thoughts
when it comes to Dalton Kincaid, where there's not a
lot of middle ground, as there seems to not be
in anything. Yeah, a days in like society. But you
and I talk about this offline, and I mentioned it

(09:03):
the intro, just kind of why I titled it this
episode with this title and had it on the graphic.
Just a lot of people kind of writing Kincaid off
and almost like he's not even in the discussion given
I don't know if it's just solely due to that
drop or the production in general. When you think about
Dalton Kincaid, whether it's where you're at right now, where

(09:23):
your head was at coming in this episode? High level?
What are your thoughts on Dalton Kincaid? You know, two
years in the league, some injuries, multiple banged up in
twenty twenty four that kind of impacted him a little bit.
But he comes into twenty twenty five just a few
years removed from being a first round pick that the
Bill's traded up for and a guy that a lot
of us thought was going to be the tip of
the spear when it came to the passing offense last year.

(09:44):
Where's your head at when you think of, you know,
Dalton Kincaid at this moment in time, I think a.

Speaker 3 (09:49):
Lot of where I'm at is honestly kind of wiping
away almost clean slating what happened in year two and
act as if your three is yer two, because I
think what happened and me working in the fantasy space,
like I can talk about how people perceived Dalton Kincaid
going into year three, like no one wants him. Everyone

(10:10):
overdrafted him, even at of value. I feel like he
was drafted like tenth eleventh round this past year in
fantasy drafts. But people thought he was going to be
the focal point of the offense in twenty twenty four,
and I really think going into twenty twenty five, the
reason this whole like is he a bust question is
coming up and all of the doubt and kind of

(10:35):
I guess depression over expectations for him is because of
how high the expectations were.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
In twenty twenty four.

Speaker 3 (10:41):
And I don't even think it's wrong to say that
those expectations should have been high.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
I don't think that was the issue. I just think.

Speaker 3 (10:49):
Preseason expectations they always change when you get more answers
and you get more context into the season. We all
thought he was going to be used in a myriad
of ways by Joe Brady, like not just in the
ways and we'll talk about it when we get into
the film, but not just in the ways that we saw,
but beyond that. And we thought he was going to

(11:09):
be a target monster. We thought he was gonna be
on the field like all the time. He was gonna
be on the field more than knocks. And there were
things that happened, whether it was injury or just straight
up personnel and strategy and schematics where the bills were like,
we don't want him on the field this much. And
it's not even to say he's bad, it's just to

(11:30):
say there are certain things. There are certain boxes they're
trying to check on, certain personnel groups, certain play calls,
certain situations that he doesn't necessarily fit as well as
Sawson Knox and maybe even Spencer haw or Spencer Hawes
jack dude.

Speaker 1 (11:47):
Eric and I were talking about it. Yes, I keep
calling Jackson haw Spencer Hawes, NBA center from Washington who
played for the Kings. Again. I bet I've even had
it written in my notes, like Spencer haw Jackson's. And
then a couple couple weeks ago, I was doing I
was doing draft stuff with Russ and I called Trent
McDuffie Isaiah McDuffie for the entire episode, the linebacker for

(12:09):
the Packers, like and just been falling apart.

Speaker 3 (12:11):
I mean, it's a lot of names right now in
the Rolodex. Well, I shouldn't say right now that have
built through the Rolodex over years and years. But yeah,
everything on Mike Kincaid Take into twenty twenty five is
kind of cleaning the twenty twenty four slate clean and
almost acting as if it didn't happen. Because he's still
relatively young. I know he was drafted as an older prospect,

(12:33):
but he'sa on his first contract, he's entering year three.
He still has plenty of talent. I really feel like
injuries derailed a lot of what they wanted to do
with him, and I think there's a big part of
this that it's lost in the context of He's kind
of the offensive version of a designated pass rusher, right Like,

(12:53):
he just he has a role and he's really really
good at it. And I don't necessarily know if the
Bills want to make him this well rounded.

Speaker 1 (13:04):
Unspecialized player.

Speaker 3 (13:05):
I think they like that he's a specialized skill set,
and I think that's valuable to them, and I think
that's part of the reason they drafted Jackson Hawes, because
let's be honest, I mean, there is life.

Speaker 1 (13:17):
I was like, it's Spencer, and I'm like, no, it's not,
you idiot, it's Spencer.

Speaker 3 (13:22):
But you know what I'm saying, like, I really it's
it's really interesting and it's it is tough to kind
of bake in all that context, especially when you're so
hopeful going into a season. But they spread the ball
around a lot more than I think anyone really thought
they would, even with the whole everybody eats mantra like,
it really got spread around a lot, and I don't
think people were expecting it to the level that it

(13:44):
happened in twenty twenty four, and I think that helps
reshape expectations for twenty twenty five. Were sure, you can
still be very excited about Kincaid like you were going
into last year, but maybe it's regulated a little bit
more knowing how the ball is spread around in the
Bills offense.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
That's a fair point. And there's so many things you
said that I will end up talking about it, but
one point I wanted to to piggyback on. It's something
you and I talked about via text there was that
picture circulating. You had asked me about it. You're like,
what's going on. There's something about like a picture of
him at camp or something like that, and I was like, yeah,
he looks a little like skinny and for folks who
wanted him to add more muscle ar size and be

(14:22):
more of a blocking threat, it's not idea, YadA YadA.
And then you and I started talking about like, what
if that's not an accident, what if that's not like
always recovering from injury so he lost a little Wait,
what if it's by design? And they're like, you know what, dude,
just lean more into your the big wide receiver aspect,
and that's kind of how we're going to play you.
I think that's like, and again we're not saying that

(14:43):
is the thing, but that's a possibility. Yeah, like that
that could be the idea. And I find it so
interesting And we'll get into it when we talk about
his schematic usage, because the usage, and that's one of
my big takeaways coming into this episode in studying tight
ends across the league, you know, Kincaid and especially the
three that we're also going to be diving into the
tape with for this episode, but just for better or

(15:06):
for worse, the way things are designed in the Bills
offense aren't like what the Cardinals do for Trey McBride,
or what the Raiders do for brock Powers or what
the Lions do for Sam Laporter. You've got three teams
that really lean into their tight end and again or
not again. But you have to consider how those other
teams are made up, how necessary those guys are as

(15:28):
target monsters or the role they play. And also at
the same time, you can't really fault like Joe Brady
for non involving Kincaid more making him a direct guy,
because the offense just keeps rolling. They are a run
first team and everything stems from there. Despite Josh Allen
being the MVP and having this unicornate quarterback, they are
a run first team. And then Kincaid not being a

(15:50):
plus blocker is interesting how that fits in schematically, But
then there's still ways that they could use yes, and
there are ways that Brady could use him better. But
also you don't really vault Brady for not using him
more because the offense still hums. And then some of
it's on Kincaid and some of it's not. And so
I think it's fun to put all of that kind
of into perspective in this episode. And it's funny. You

(16:12):
just see the chat kind of. I brought up several
comments as you were speaking, Like even in the chat here,
there's different pieces of people being like, no, it was
a reach, No he's a bust, not he'll be fine.
What about the injuries, No, I don't care, he's a problem,
Like he's concerned. There's just it's just so up and
down and all over the place when it comes to
this guy who's still just going into year three and
had an injury Plague twenty twenty four, but I am

(16:35):
nonetheless excited to talk about him. Kendall, let's start off
with the blocking and then for folks who don't kind
of if you're watching live or watching later, listening, whatever
have you, the way we're going to go through here,
we're gonna start with the high level discussion or hire
or continue the higher level discussion, should say on Dalon Kkate,
we're gonna go over him as a blocker, over him

(16:55):
as a pass catcher, over his schematic usage in this
offense based on advanced metrics and a lot of film study.
We grinded a lot of tape when it came to
Kincaid and prep for this episode. Then we're going to
go look at some tape of Dalton Kinkaid as a
blocker and as a pass catcher. And then we're going
to dive into some tape and some metrics for Trey McBride,
Sam Laporta, and Brock Bauers, just as a point of

(17:17):
reference and a nice juxtaposition for some other good young
tight ends. How they get used, how they don't get used,
comparing everything to kind of put it into a nice,
neat and tidy little bow for you folks in this episode.
Any questions, thoughts, comments, concerns, feel free to put them
up into the chat throughout the entirety of the episode.
Super chats as always get priority because I respect the

(17:37):
monetary donation and the color attracts me like a cat
with a laser pointer. So yeah, Kendall, let's start off
with Dalton kincaid and his evaluation. We'll start off with
him as a blocker. I want to start with this
because I think this is this is something you and
I talked about when he was drafted out of Utah,
the idea of him being a willing blocker, but not

(17:58):
necessarily a plus blocker because a combination of size frame,
how he's built a little more length in his limbs,
but not necessarily the thickest or the densest type of guy,
not the necessarily the best technique, but him being more
of a pass catching first type of titand more of
a pass receiving weapon. However you want to label it
as opposed to this true dual threat even though he

(18:19):
was willing and could get away with some things as
a blocker. And now fast forward going into year three,
I feel like this is the sticking point for so
many folks and they talk about him not being able
to block and how it is a hindrance and how
much of a limitation as it is. So let's lead
off with that Kincaid as a blocker. What are your
thoughts after going through the tape kind of studying him

(18:41):
and also again taking into account the injuries in twenty
twenty four which he injured his shoulder slash collar bone
early in the season. I believe it was the Houston
Texans game when Alan threw him overthrew him a little
bit he dove tried to get it, jacked up his shoulder,
and then what did he do to his PCL in
week ten? Yeah, it was Week ten against the Colts
and then so torn PCL I believe right torn in

(19:02):
his knee.

Speaker 3 (19:03):
I actually don't know if it was fully torn. Yeah,
I feel like sprain.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
Sprain's technically our tears, but either way, jacked up his knee.
Then we played through both that impacted and further But
Kendall again Kincaid as a blocker, the floor is yours.
What are your thoughts. I'm still on the train.

Speaker 3 (19:19):
He's very willing, Like I honestly think that's the main
thing with him when you're talking about the upside to
him as a blocker and the potential for growth, Like
it's never been an issue for him to want to block.
It's it's really just been an ability thing. Yeah, the
uncatchable targets thing, I'll throw that in there when we
get to it. I have a stat on it.

Speaker 1 (19:42):
I you know what, I was going to tell you
to do one And then in my hat, I was like,
he's already gonna have that. Yeah, I got it. It's
it's in the holster. But when we get to it all,
I'll draw the gun.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
But yeah, he's a willing blocker. It's really not it's
not a mentality thing. It's just a physicality thing. And
we heard that from Brandon Bean, we heard that from
Sean derm It, we heard that from all the people
that matter at one Bill's drive. It's it's really just
comes down to technique and physicality. But then at the
other end of it, like it goes back to this
high level conversation of like what do we want this

(20:13):
guy doing? Yes, like do we truly want him on
the line of scrimmage? And I think drafting Jackson Hawes
kind of gives you an answer on what they want,
because there was sure if the Bills didn't draft Jackson Hawes.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
I think there's the.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
Looming question in the back of your head, what do
the Bills do at why tight end when they move
on from Dawson Knox, or maybe they don't move on
from Dawson Knox. Maybe they they managed to retain him
at a more cost effective contract long term. But you know, hypothetically,
let's say that that's something that the Bills are considering.

(20:51):
Every fan is wondering, Okay, who's the in line tight end. Now, Yeah,
Like it doesn't seem like it's gonna because that's really
what's going on right now.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
With kin Kida.

Speaker 3 (21:01):
It's very siloed. His role is very obvious. Sure he
can do some things blocking in line, but he's usually
the second guy attached to the line of scrimmage. He's
very rarely the guy right next to the tackle. Honestly,
a lot of times when he is the guy next
to the tackle, he's on the weak side of the play,
like because Dawson Knox is on the strong side of

(21:23):
the play and there are two tight ends on the field.

Speaker 1 (21:25):
So I'm we just talked about it before the show.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
Like on a scale from one to ten, he's not
a one, Like this isn't a big issue. He's somewhere
probably between four and five, which is workable. Like you
can use him in certain situations. You're not completely handicapped
when it comes to, oh, we need to run this play,
we'd like to have him on the field for a
sense of illusion, we might pass the ball, whatever it
might be. He's not going to be that much of

(21:51):
a liability. But like you said earlier.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Not a plus blocker.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
You're really not going to win that side of the
field because of his blockings skill. So hopefully that's an
area of improvement. Hopefully that's something that he's going to
focus on. But yeah, I don't. Truthfully, I don't want
him to add ten pounds.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
I don't.

Speaker 3 (22:09):
I want him to keep his fastball and maybe inch
by inch one percent better each day, get better at blocking.
I don't really need him to become like this six
out of ten blocker. As long as he's comfortably around
five and he's still doing the stuff he does as
a pass catcher, I'm truthfully fine with it, and I

(22:30):
think that's fair.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
I'm in a pretty similar boat. I think he is
such a good and I'm gona speak out of both
sides of my mouth a little bit and also save
something for this comatic usage piece. But he's he's such
a mismatch. He has such mismass potential as a pass
catcher and as a route runner receiver. However you want

(22:52):
to label him like that, all I need him to
be is serviceable exactly as a blocker, I think right
now again, you know you mentioned us talking offline about it. Yeah,
I think somewhere between like a four to four and
a half as a blocker. My issue with it is
and again we talked about it when he got drafted.
We talked about it for years. Like the whole idea
of personnel and being able to dictate to a defense

(23:16):
and being able to access more of the menu without
having to turn the page. A significant chunk of going
into twelve personnel is the value of how does the
defense match you? Because twelve personnel, if you've got two
tight ends that can both function as pass catchers and blockers,
you can increase your run game and pass game menu

(23:38):
in a multitude of ways. You can go condense, you
can go spread, you can if you have more bodies
attached to the line of scrimmage, your run game menu
increases significantly. But you can get to all these different
things and make the defense go, oh, do we have
to put a third safety? Do we have to put
a third linebacker? Can we stay in nickel?

Speaker 2 (23:56):
Like?

Speaker 1 (23:56):
How do we cover these guys? What do we do?
And so, if he's not serviceable as a blocker and
he is more of just a big wide receiver hipped
off the line of scrimmage, like you mentioned, it does
impact his value in a negative way. It reduces it,
but I don't think it's been to this degree where
it significantly tarnishes who and what he is. But there

(24:18):
are things you can't get to. I think a lot
of them, to your point, should have been kind of expected.
Like I never expected him to become a plus blocker.
He was never going to become George Kettle. He was
never going to become Gronk or you know, even off
the field issues aside like Aaron Hernandez as a receiver
and as a blocker, like these guys who could live
in the light in the dark and do both of

(24:40):
these things, he was never going to be that. You
just wanted to be a four and a half to
a five as a blocker. If he could be a five,
that's great, because as a pass catcher he's like an
eight and a half or a nine, and we're gonna
show some tape of that. But my biggest issue with
it is just what his ceiling is as a player
and how that's tied to the offense. Because right, he's

(25:01):
not so bad that he's deficient or he's a vulnerability
out there, but it is somewhat of a tell or
at the very least impacts your ability to have access
to that menu and to be able to dictate to
a defense, because if he can't function as a blocker,
or if you have to consistently like okay, he's the

(25:23):
in line tight end or he's hipped off, we know
they're not going to have him try to block somebody
on the line. They're going to try and ark him
and put him to our corner or our nickel because
we know he can't match up that way. Then you
kind of telegraph things a little bit, or at the
very least, you are hindered. Your schematic potential is hindered.
His potential is then hindered. You kind of chase your
tail a little bit. So I don't think. I don't

(25:46):
think his blocking is this thing that has ruined him.
It hasn't progressed the way I wanted it to. I'm
hoping from a silver lining perspective, it was because of
more the injury this has. That's that's kind of why
I'm holding out. Yeah, like that's what I'm holding out,
hope a little bit. But someone said in the comment,
like saying is a saying he's a willing blocker is

(26:09):
a nice way of saying he's not a good blocker.
I slightly disagree with that because like blocking on offense,
I don't know, like seventy five eighty percent of it
is just for its effort. You have to want to block.

Speaker 3 (26:20):
Now, the same thing with tackling, Like, yes, you have
to have to want to do it, Like that's really
a big part of it.

Speaker 1 (26:27):
Yes, it's a huge piece. That's why people we say
all the time like you can tell like how well
a team is bought in by how the receivers block
on offense. That's why people thought about the packers offense,
like their receivers all block their butts off like that,
think their job depends on it. This comment I thought
was pretty good. I think it's a good way of
saying it. Comment by thirteen he says he's not a
good blocker. He's more of a quote getting the way

(26:48):
type of blocker. He's just getting in the way of
the defense, and I think that's fair. I think he's
more of an obstructor and a shepherd as a blocker
than he is like a people mover displacer the willing,
but the willingness is there. He's not soft, he's not
scared of contact. He's just better suited to block Nickels
corners some safeties depending on the size. It's more just

(27:10):
his size and frame. He's not the thickest guy. He's
more length than wiry. He's fluid as an athlete, but
that type of fluidity doesn't lend itself to being a
dense hammer as a blocker. He's more of a nail
and he's gonna receive that contact as opposed to dishing
it out, which again impacts where you line him up,
how you use him, and so on and so forth.

Speaker 3 (27:32):
I think the conversation that you were just having with
yourself on like how he fits into this offense is
so poignant because it's it's not about how it's limiting
who he is as a player. It's like it's so
indirectly just limiting his snaps. Yes, Like that's really what

(27:52):
it comes down to me.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
I got it part of the reason the offense, Yes,
And I also real quick within that, keep your thought,
don't lose it. I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I
want to get this. I think it's also part of
the reason too, why you lean into like six offensive
lineman sets right, because you get that heavy aspect and
then you can almost use Alec Anderson as the blocking
tight end and be able to do more pass catching

(28:14):
things with Kinkaid because you feel somewhat more limited in
a true twelve personnel type of world.

Speaker 3 (28:19):
Yeah, no, and that's really all it is. It's just
it's not that he's not good enough to block. It's
that he might not meet the threshold of comfort that
you know, Joe Brady might have in certain aspects of
the offense where it's like, Okay, this kind of dictates
what I want to do with personnel groupings, and then

(28:42):
it just organically in that way limits his snaps, and
then once you limit his snaps, you limit his output.
And once you limit his output, you're like, is this
return on investment worth it? We just traded up for
this guy when we didn't even need a tight end,
you know, from outside perception.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
So it all kind of like.

Speaker 3 (29:00):
You can really do this spiral and just really ruminate
on this and like, oh my god, this whole thing
is just a terrible, terrible luxury pick from twenty twenty three,
but like, yes, you have to really massage it and
understand they probably weren't really expecting him to be this

(29:20):
plus blocker, but it is a scary thought, thinking like
maybe he didn't progress to the level they thought he could,
and that's limiting how much they actually want to use
him because the way being in McDermott talked about his
lack of physicality in reference to his injuries. Yes, that's
kind of damning in the aspect of well, it sounds

(29:42):
like there's something a little left to be desired that
they had envisioned for him when they drafted him.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
But you know, a lot a lot.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
Of Bill's draft picks broke out in year three, so
we got we got a hold on to that at
least through this year.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
And I think that's a huge part of it too, Right,
Like the general rule thumb is you can't make a
concrete decision on any prospect until year three, and I
think that's as a general rule of thumb, I think
that's good, and even more so for a guy again
who got significantly banged up in his second year and
the direction that they want with him I think is

(30:18):
so interesting, especially too, Let's also factor in I mean
the coordinator change, right, was he more of a endorse
he want than a Joe Brady want? Like? What how
much does that impact things? A little bit, and I
just I find it hard to think that they weren't
expecting some semblance of improvement as a blocker, or expecting

(30:41):
him to function in that world regularly, because again, you don't.
You don't take Dalton Kincaid after already paying Dawson Knox
and not think, man, we're gonna like live in twelve.
There's so many things we can do. Again, we talked
about it, because how good of a pass catching threat
he is. You can go twelve and you could go condensed,
you could go spread, you can go two by two,

(31:02):
three like three by two, especially with James Cook. You
can do all these things, like it's the menu aspect.
But if he's not the blocker you need him to be,
if he's not sustainably functional, that hinders all of that
menu potential, all of that dictation capability as an offense.
And then so then but then it's still possible, because
then in my head, I'm like, well, do they think

(31:23):
that he's just such a good element as a receiver
that they just considered him a receiver. That's part of
what I'm gonna get into my schematic usage part. But yeah,
I think the way he's painted as a blocker. It
needs just again, like how we put it into perspective
needs to be put in that perspective. He is not
a lost cause, he is not a vulnerability, he's not

(31:45):
a deficiency. But he is not a plus. And again
he could become a plus in year three. Maybe the
technique improves, maybe the injuries in year two really were
a problem. But I just don't see him ever being
a guy that you're gonna be like, yeah, he can
wash down edge, or he can base block and hold
up against a bigger body or a more physical linebacker
or even any defensive lineman like some of the clips

(32:07):
that we're going to show from other guys, even if
it's just for half a second or one second, Like,
I just think he's gonna be a guy that gets
more compressed. I don't think he's built to be a y.
I think he's built more as the f that adjuster
that hipped off tight end, more of a power slot,
even a quasi X and that can still work based
on how good of a pass catcher he is. It

(32:27):
just changes what the ceiling is for him, changes what
the ceiling is for the offense, makes it a little
less ideal for the pick, but he still conn have
value overall. He's just yeah, right now, he's not a
plus blocker. I don't know if he's gonna be. And
then I know some comments in the chat John Roberts
just said it like he needs to muscle up more
and needs to add more weight. I think that's a
slippery slope because part of what makes him so good

(32:49):
as a pass catcher, which I'm sure we'll talk about
in a minute the next segment, is I always kind
of call it the technical fluidity that he has, Like
he understands leverage and he plays with good body lean
and he's got you know, good burst. His ability, he
always does that you know, that drop step when he
catches passes, whether he's deep or in the shorter intermediate,
like he's catching it and he's already moving and destriy.
He's so fluid. Yeah, you gotta be careful when you

(33:11):
add more muscle because if you add more muscle, does
he get a little more rigid? Yes, he took the
words right out of my mouth. Does he get more
stiff and rigid as a player? Does some of that
fluidity in his release or in his stems or on
the break or in the route. Does that change a
little bit? It's a very it's a very delicate balance
between pliability and strength and muscle mass and all of
those things call lessing into one. So it's five pounds

(33:35):
of muscle could be a significant difference for him to
add on or maybe not. Maybe he could add five
to ten and feel completely fine. It's just not the
easiest fixes. But yeah, we'll just have him add more muscle. Also,
sometimes guys just can't. It took aj Abanessa like three
years to figure out how to get to the weight
that they needed him to get at between diet and
workout regimen, and then you're trying to figure out like, Okay,

(33:56):
the calories that I need to intake, the workout routine
that I need, the cardio that I need to do
because I don't want to burn too much that I'm
losing weight, So how do I maintain It is such
a fine science. It is very very difficult, yes, which
is also I think annoying in this conversation because of
your thought, Like if you're drafting and being like, well,
we just got to get him to add more muscle,
it's like can his frame do that? How much you

(34:17):
change in his body composition, all of these things, and
if he already has some injury history, is more muscle
mass really going to help that because you're making him
heavier like it's it is a slippery slope, and I
do think again part of the reason my biggest concern
for him coming out was what he would be as
a blocker, because if he can't function as a blocker
the way that they need him to, it just limits

(34:38):
his value because he's not necessarily a dual threat tight end.
He's more of just a big bodied wide receiver, which
can still have value, just not as much as being
a true dual threat tight end in twelve personnel.

Speaker 3 (34:49):
Honestly, back to the draft point though, like you gotta
think that the Bill's player personnel department was aware of
how much time on task he with football and also
his age when he was drafted. I feel like there
was a there's a large contingency contingency of that group
that understood he's kind of maxed out, like he was

(35:12):
an older prospect, and they probably knew he was pretty
close to a finished product. It was just going to
be polishing here and there. And you think about how
he hit the ground running as a rookie, and that
kind of speaks to how NFL ready he was and
how close he was to that final product. So I
think year three, what we're looking for is an improvement

(35:33):
off the rookie season with some more polish like truthfully,
that's all I think we're looking for in year three.
But who knows, Like the body recomposition could be a thing,
but yeah, I'm with you on the slippery slope. Like
he's listed at two forty, I don't really want him
anywhere over to forty now with what he is and

(35:56):
what he's good at. Like, I think maybe it's a
muscle like a recomposition in terms of like just your
your body composition in general, between body fat and muscle.
But like I think in terms of mass, he really
should be maxed out at two forty because all those
good things about his fluidity and how he plays the

(36:18):
game as a receiver, you you really do want to
keep that over everything, because you can't ruin the fastball.

Speaker 1 (36:25):
No, absolutely anything else on his blocking before we move
on to him as a pass cautcher. No, I'm good.

Speaker 3 (36:31):
Let's let's get to the good stuffy.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
That I'm gonna want to grab this common real quick
from Roy and Roy says Kincaid's game similar to Mikeasiki.
No way, Mikeasicki is. Mikeasicki is literally just like a
big slot. He does not He's not a good blocker.
He also is not a willing blocker like he he's
not blocking like it's just not happening. I do remember
the last time I've seen him line up. I can't
even think of a blocking rep in my head. Like

(36:55):
he is literally a wht. They let Tyler Boyd go
in Cincinnati because they brought in Mike Kasiki like he
was the new slot wide receiver. He was the new
wide receiver. Three, it was gonna be Higgins and chasing
Kasiki like and then they have like Trent Irwin and
like how they would rotate those guys in. But yeah,
he is uh no, I Kinkaid is much more willing
and a much better blocker than Gasiki and honestly just

(37:17):
not saying much because is not a good it's just
black Kaziki is. I don't even know if Kaiki is
like a one on a scale to ten as a blocker,
he might be like a zero point.

Speaker 3 (37:26):
I don't do him like that. I mean, he's he
is lanky and wirey, so it is tough for him.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
He also was one of the worst grittedy I'm always
gonna think of him doing that gretty when he scored
for Miami against the Bill playoffs. That gritty was terrible.
I'm automatically subtracting a one point if he was a
two as a blocker, I'm already putting him down to
a one just because how bad that gritty was.

Speaker 3 (37:44):
In terms of blocking tight end comps. I feel like
our hope is that he matures into a.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Travis Kelce level blocker, because, like.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
There's so much similarity between him and Kelsey as as
pass catchers and route runners. Yeah, like there's just so
much innate feel for the position from both of them.
And Kelsey isn't like the best blocker in the world,
but he's super competitive, he's super willing, and he got
better at it through the years.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
So I think I think.

Speaker 3 (38:12):
That's kind of our hope as a as a fan
base that he can kind of mature into that level
of blocker.

Speaker 1 (38:18):
Yes, I just don't. I just don't want him to
be a deficiency I.

Speaker 3 (38:21):
Just I think again, I think he's on the scheme
more than anything.

Speaker 1 (38:24):
Honestly, I think he's fine to slightly below fine right now. Again,
like I think he's a four to a four and
a half on a good day. I would love for
him just to be average, Like, just give me more,
give me more obstruction, if you could, just if he
could just hold his blocks for another quarter second longer
against everybody, and just give me some semblance of that

(38:45):
a little bit more, I would be completely fine, because
again he is a plus aspect as a pass catcher,
which is the other element we'll talk about here. Ken Kendall,
Ken Kendall, I don't know what's going on with me here,
Kendall on Kincaid as a pass catcher and what he
brings in that regard.

Speaker 3 (39:05):
I mean, this is everything, this is his whole game.
He like so much of this also stems from just
the body type and the mismatched threat that he is,
Like you really don't know what to put on him.
I'm sure you're going to have multiple film elements of
him matching up against cos.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
That you wanted me to grab like that that you
ty yeah, because they just they show the mismatch capability
and potential so much.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
It's It's a big part of it, and I think
that's a big part of why they took him. It
wasn't It wasn't for Oh, can he grow as a blocker,
that's just gravy. If that works, that's gravy. But this,
this is the crux of everything for him as a player.
It's his mismatched threat. But then on top of who
they match up against him, he's capable of winning that

(39:52):
matchup regardless of what body type it is across from him.
He has the athleticism and the fluidity to release from
the line of scrimmage, as a physicality to break through
any hand checking. He has really good route running. But then, honestly,
the best thing about him is his instincts in his
feel I guess I guess against zone specifically, it's it's

(40:16):
just he has an innate feel.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Ever since he he just knows where to.

Speaker 3 (40:20):
Sit, like and timing to It's it's not just like
the space, but it's also the timing in which he
gets there. I remember, Oh, it was probably like entering
year three for Dawson Knox. He was talking about, Oh, yeah,
you know, I'm learning the position and I'm learning like
it's not just about running the route fast because it's
about getting to your landmark on.

Speaker 1 (40:42):
It was after I think it was after like that
might have been the first year for tight End University
and I think.

Speaker 3 (40:47):
Yeah, it was probably he was probably talking about that, yeah, that,
but it was something like that, and he was just
saying like, if you run it too fast, you're out
of the window by the time the quarterback gets to you.

Speaker 1 (40:57):
And the progression.

Speaker 3 (40:58):
Like there were so many times on tape this past
year from Kincaid where he's running a dig from an
inline position or you know, a tight slot position and
he's really deliberate about his stem and how he's breaking
it in terms of leverage insider outside, but he's doing
it slow and deliberately because he doesn't want to break

(41:21):
it off on the inbreak or too quickly, because if
he gets in between those two second level defenders too quickly,
he's not in the window for Josh Allen on time
he's past that window and then you force Josh to
hold on to it for half a second longer, and
that could turn into a sack, it could turn into
a fumble, god knows what. So God, honestly, that to me,

(41:44):
that's the best part of his game. It's just the
innate feel for route running and separation because he can
do it on a mismatch level against man. I'm not
gonna sit here and say that's his strength. I mean
it's it's way above average for tight ends, like he

(42:04):
can he can separate from man better than most tight ends. Yes,
but I think the real plus plus matchup for him
is what he does four quarterbacks against zone. He is
so so friendly for Josh Allen in zone, finding those
spots that work for him, and even on top of that,
just to scramble drill stuff like he just gets it

(42:25):
so quickly like he can see. I mean it helps
when you you're a rookie when Josh Allen has already
figured it out, so you like you're thrown into the
fire and you know like this is a big part
of the offense. So yeah, he got a lot of
time on task with that early, which was good. But
his feel for finding space and the timing in which

(42:45):
that he runs his routes and all that stuff like that,
that's truly what I love most about his game.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
I honestly don't have too much to add. Like he
he came into the league as such a plus aspect
as a pass catcher, and that's really just he hit
the ground running no pun intended, and continued with it
and you said it. You hit it on the head.
Like you watch him work in the underneath and the intermediate.
He understands like coverage drops for defenders, like he knows

(43:15):
where to sit between linebackers. He knows where the voids are,
where the gaps are, and how to pace himself from
the release through the stem to the break and how
to get right kind of when that red sea parts,
whether he's running an in breaker or he's running it
over the ball route, like how he's able to function there.
It just works so consistently. And then he also understands

(43:35):
leverage in man coverage, like you'll see him feel guys
leaning on him, and he knows this is where that
fluidity and that pliability comes in. He knows how to
contort his body and have that body controlling athleticism to
kind of deceive and lie to a defender because he
can lean with his hips in his shoulders and then
snap and bend back the other way and create separation.
I have a clip like that against Detroit, which we're

(43:57):
going to show his ability as a pass catch or
he like you said, he functions so well in his zone.
But I do think he works in man because how
do you how do you cover him? Like if you
it takes a very special kind of linebacker or safety
to cover him one on one and most teams don't
have that. It's if Isaiah Simmons worked out ooh good,

(44:18):
call good, Like that's that's what would do it?

Speaker 3 (44:21):
Or like I guess Derwin James, you know what I mean,
Like it takes that type and there's one two of
those guys floating in the NFL game.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Maybe yeah, what are you gonna do? Like put your
I guess you know what's crazy is I was like
naming guys Baltimore might have, like two you could Putchil
Hamilton or Malachi Starks on it, which is so crazy.

Speaker 3 (44:38):
But there's a world where I see Malachi Starks not
being physical enough for kin Kid. And I know that's
crazy to say because we talk about a lack of
physicality from Kinkaid, but like that's that's the well roundedness
he has. It's not as a complete tight end, it's
as a complete pass catcher, Like he can really do
anything you want him to do as a pass catcher,

(44:58):
and that makes him such a threat against any matchup
in man, he can throw a different pitch at whatever,
you know, depending on who the batter is, he can
throw any type of pitch. Yes, it's just it's really
really valuable the middle ground that he plays as a
skill set, specifically as a pass catcher.

Speaker 1 (45:17):
Yeah, and it you know, we talked about what he
is in zone and in man. That's where that matchup
piece comes in, Like, how do you do you have
a special athlete at linebacker safety? Because and you go
with that, because you need someone with a little bit
more size because even though he isn't the most physical,
intimidating presence, his size and frame is still gonna be

(45:38):
a problem for corners. So you need a bigger body.
But is that bigger body athletic enough to stay with
him in coverage? And then if okay, no, so we're
gonna put a corner on him, is your corner big
enough or physical enough? I got it one of the
multiple clips from that Tennessee game. We're gonna go and
look at one. He's getting jammed against Jarvis Brown. Jarvis

(45:59):
Brown only loves contact. He loves it loved it a Louisville.
He was one of my favorite watches last year. As
a corner, I think he's legitimately an as sending player
and he's good at press man against a variety of
body types. Just to put it into perspective for folks,
I'll talk about it more when we show it. Browne
beat the hell out of key On Coleman when he
pressed him like Coleman couldn't get off brownly and Kinkaid

(46:22):
shakes him k Kody. Yeah, he plays through him and
snaps it off. So even physical corners who want to
play press kink can get through that. So he's such
a matchup problem in that regard. And I structured this
conversation purposely to go open the block into the pass
catcher and then the schematic use of piece because for me,
I want I don't want the twelve personnel aspect to

(46:44):
go away. I think that's such a key for this offense. Right.
But while I don't want him to stop being hipped
off and stop having condensed formations in that, I do
want to see him just use more as a bigger
wide receiver in solo alignments, like whether it's a three
by one and he's the quasi ax like, give me
more of those, give me soli, and he's kicked out

(47:06):
outside because who's matching him out there in a one
on one? Is it a corner, is it a safety?
Is it a linebacker? He probably has the advantage as
a pass catcher in one of those ways, shape or form,
because he is so multiple and so versatile as a
pass catcher. And I think I think that's the biggest
thing that got forgotten about with his down year in

(47:27):
twenty twenty four. It's the injuries impacted him and that drop,
which was very unfortunate, especially considering how good his hands
are right and even had some drops about the rest
of the year, like the Texans game. Is a little yes,
inconsistent with his hands, which has not been a thing
that he's really ever had in his career. But I
think we a lot of folks forgot about how good
of a receiver he is and how good of a

(47:48):
pass catching threat he is as a tight end because
of what he is from an athletic profile standpoint, how
he sees the game, how he understands it, and he
can separate in a multitude of ways vertical, the inner
met it underneath it in a variety of routes against
a variety of coverages, and then also factoring it in
and you talk about having a stat for and it

(48:08):
shows up on the tape. Alan missed him a good
chunk of time in twenty twenty four. And again it's
a bit tying into who's at fault. Is it is
Kincaid's timing off? Did a defender reroute him? Is he
getting to his right depth and his landmark? Like you
mentioned with Dawson Knox having to learn, you know, is
it on Alan? Was there pressure on the play, But

(48:29):
for whatever reason, Alan being a little off target to
Kincaid happened more than it happened to really anyone else
on the team. I have an example of it that
will go to the tape in a little bit, but
I know you have some data and some metrics on
that to kind of put some things in a perspective too.

Speaker 3 (48:44):
Yeah, I'll hit that quickly and then pivot onto something
that I'm actually surprised both of us didn't even touch.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
But the catch rate.

Speaker 3 (48:52):
Just straight up catch rate, like how many times is
he catching the ball that is targeting him? Fifty eight
point seven percent in twenty twenty four. That's the with
some thirty one tight ends with at least fifty targets, right,
But then you contextualize that with catchable targets. He had
a sixty five point eight catchable target rate, which is
the lowest again among those thirty one tight ends with

(49:14):
fifty plus targets. So when you contextualize both of those together,
like he's already behind eight ball. Yes, Like it's impossible
to get your catch rate up when you have the
worst catchable target rate.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Ye, it's hard to get your getting up into the
ball isn't being put in a spot where you can
catch it?

Speaker 3 (49:31):
And then that's even layered more with his unrealized air yards.
He had four hundred and twenty five unrealized air yards
and that was the most among tight ends.

Speaker 1 (49:41):
Tell tell the people what unrealized air yards is.

Speaker 3 (49:45):
So really, just say he's fifteen yards down the field.
That's where he is from. Like the line of scrimmage,
or I guess from Josh Allen's hand, is probably how
this is measured.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
I hate that sites do it differently from the line
of scrimmage. Some do it from where the quarterback throws
its Why I said about it like a month ago. Yeah,
I was what it's worth.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
That's why I said both because it's different everywhere. But
four hundred and twenty five yards aggregated through the season
of air yards that you know, the ball traveled in
the air targeting Kincaid, but he didn't come down with
the catch. So you know, I'm sure a few of
those were times that he couldn't catch it or pass
was batted by a defender, but sixty five point eight

(50:27):
of those were catchable.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
The rest weren't. So it's a lot. Sixty five, like
you said, is not good and so that that's not
high enough.

Speaker 3 (50:36):
And then and then here's here's the thing. So here's
the pivot that all which is crazy that we didn't
even talk about.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
The way he was used.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
For the better part of the season was just this
flat screen, bubble screen.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
It's like a schematics talk about it. Yeah, go ahead, yeah,
go ahead.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
Yeah, I won't go too deep, but like to think
about a guy that's used like that and he has
the lowest catch rate among tight ends with fifty targets
is crazy.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Like like that's why like most of his targets were
like around the last that's why Shakir's catch rate was
like one hundred percent for the whole year because his
average the target was like zero point one.

Speaker 3 (51:15):
They use them interchangeably in that like bubble screen flat screen.

Speaker 1 (51:19):
Game that RPO bubble all yeah, and don't get me wrong,
like it works and Kink.

Speaker 3 (51:25):
This is something to talk about as kin Kid as
a pass catcher is what he does after the catch,
Like it's a very very valuable thing. When we talk
about his lack of physical his lack of physicality as
a blocker, it's.

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Not a thing.

Speaker 3 (51:38):
When he has the ball in his hand, like he
runs through tackles. He's never falling backwards away.

Speaker 1 (51:45):
He's not trying to like dump that. It's funny.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
I wanted to bring this up when we were talking
about matchups, Like the one guy he didn't run through
was Kyle Duggar right like Kyle Dugger had his number
and that I think it was the second Patriots game.

Speaker 1 (51:58):
That's where the Bills have their red jerseys. Kyle Dugger
was every time Kink touched the ball, Dougger was on
him like a spider monkey, like no matter where he
caught it. There was two that stick in my mind.
One is like Kinkaid's in the slot. Anyone's like a
little sit route and Dougger comes from the top down
and buries them and then he turns his head. He's
done dead. And then they do uh bills are going

(52:21):
from right to left and it's like that RPO bubble
and doug all senses it and just.

Speaker 3 (52:27):
But here's here's the the mismatch side to it. If
you're actually gonna line up Kyle Duggar, Yeah, he has
the physicality to match up with Kinkaid, but if you
line him up to play man against a actual like
vertical route or intermediate route, I don't think he has
the skills.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
What I was going to talk about, and I thought
it was this year, but I think it was the
previous year. I believe the second the second game against
the Patriots two years ago, Kincaid's rookie year. That's when
he had that huge deep ball completion against Dougger because
they played cover one and it was Dugger on Kinkaid
and Kinkaine just burned the hell out of him deep,
which made you think, like that's stuck in Dougger's brain
going into this year and he's like, yeah, he can't

(53:05):
stay with.

Speaker 3 (53:06):
That's such a here's here's the interesting thing to that too.
Another layer is he runs an over route in that
same Patriots game and Marte Mapu comes and undercuts it,
and he has the speed to get under you probably
should have it. Honestly, probably wasn't the greatest placement. Once
again on not having the best placement only to Kinkaid.

(53:30):
But that's to say, like there he's such a unique
mismatch because we just talked about like three four, five
different defenders where yeah, if you can somehow compile them
into one human, then yep, you got it. But like
you need all of those varying skill sets, Like Mapu's
a little bit faster than Dougger, so he can match

(53:51):
up with him on an over route, but like, is
he gonna blow him up on a simple stick route.
I don't know, Like Kinkaid might work through that and
get your.

Speaker 1 (54:00):
Against Kincaid if Kincaid's blocking him, Like is it advantage Kincaid?
The fact that we're even asking that question is already
kind of beneficial to Kincaid as it.

Speaker 3 (54:07):
Is, So it's it's just it's really crazy to even
talk about the past catcher versatility stuff but I wanted
to get this one stat in on the screens. So
through two weeks of the season, because I watched all
of his targets in order, and I was just like,
what's going on, Yeah, you test some.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
Stuff, and I was like, Oh, he's keen into it.

Speaker 3 (54:26):
Through the first two weeks of the season, Kincaid was
averaging negative point three air yards per target, which is
the fewest among thirty tight ends with at least five targets.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
So like, the.

Speaker 3 (54:37):
Simple size is low, but I put the qualifier very
low for this, and he was still fewest because he
had negative air yards per target.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
He had six targets. For what it's worth.

Speaker 3 (54:47):
Then in those two weeks he had nine point four
yards after the catch per reception, which was second most
among tight ends with them.

Speaker 1 (54:56):
Because all that space on the little because he has
all the space and world with those RPO bubble screens,
flat screens, it works.

Speaker 3 (55:06):
But it got to a point where they were like,
we got to mix something in, and honestly, they started
in week three. They were like, we got to get
him going vertical and intermediate on these inbreakers stuff like that,
and it worked. Once you diversify the portfolio a little
bit with him, like it really helps get defenders off
the line of scrimmage and then opens the RPO bubbles up.
Later in the season, he got to mix it up

(55:27):
a little bit. But I did feel like they spammed
it a little too much throughout the entire season, not
just those first two weeks that was just when it
was a clean stata. But I really want them to
get him going vertically a little more and peppering and
the the RPO bubbles here and there. It doesn't need
to be the staple that it was. It feels like

(55:48):
it was over fifty percent of his receptions.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
Yeah, they spamed the hell out of it. And I
think that's a really good segue to the schematic usage
part and just so much you You and I talked
about it a bit offline here, Like one of my
big takeaways in watching all the Kincaid tape and then
the tape of all these other tight ends was not
only just how much other tight ends get plays designed

(56:12):
for them again for different reasons, right, Different offenses have
different quality of players, different coordinators, differ philosophies, like, so
there's reasons for all of it, but it's a fact
to say, like the tight ends were going to be
showing like the offenses kind of funnel through them to
a degree, whereas Kincaid is just one piece and everybody
eats philosophy and mentality. I do have a stat for that,
but keep going, keep going. So much of that uses,

(56:35):
like you said, was just and we saw it throughout
a lot of the year, and it makes sense. I
get Brady did such a good job for Allen of
just making football like basic math, like hey, we got
to run play with a pass tag or whether it's
a traditional RPO, whatever it is, and so much of
it was just a lot and a lot of the
ones going to Kincaid and even some of the Shakir
were the runs with the pass tag where it's like, hey,

(56:56):
we got three receivers over here to the right. If
I see there's only two defense there, or even if
it's three, have we got numbers and you're good after
the catch? Or if it's three out there and the
one guy is a little too far inside, I think
we got leverage. Screw it, I'm throwing the pass tag.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
You're falling forward for five, yes, and that's it.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
And we saw so much of that, which is why,
like Allen would spit it out fast, just Shakir or
Kincaid and they would get like five yards. The extension
of the run game, it's exactly right like it used
to be. The screen game was the extension of the
run game. Now the extension of the run game is
passes coming out of RPOs or these runs that have
pass tags attached to it. For those who don't know
what that means, run with a pass tag is essentially

(57:34):
just it's different from an RPO, and RPO is more
you've got the run action. You're reading something specific and
then you're either throwing the ball or handing it off
the running back based on that specific thing. Usually you're
reading an edge defender or an apex defender. Sometimes it's
the safety and you're going from there. A run with
a pass tag is more of a pre snap numbers
type of deal. If we've got a numbers advantage in

(57:56):
the box, I'm gonna stick with the run. If we've
got a numbers advantage outside because they're crowding the box
with numbers, I'm essentially keeping the ball and I'm spitting
it out right away. Think of, uh, you know the
key on Coleman long catch against the Titans where he
can one that yeah, that one step slant that's a
run with a pass tag where that the Titans literally

(58:17):
had like ten guys in the box. Alan sees that
it's one on one and he's like, okay, I'm just
I'm just gonna throw the ball and the rest of
the offense plays it out like they think it's a
run and Alan just spits it out to key On Coleman.
But that's how he was getting the ball. A ton
and a lot of that usage, I thought, and this
is tied into the thoughts that I had for last
year as well. For as much as the Bills offense hummed,

(58:39):
I thought their instructure passing game wasn't up the snuff
for a large part of the year. A lot of
their best passes, especially early on, but through the majority
of the year really was Alan going into scramble mode
and making something happen. A lot of what this offense
was was a killer ground game and a diversified run game,
Josh Allen being in a icorn on the ground and

(59:01):
then Josh Allen being an alien unicorn through scrambles. Like the
instructure in rhythm passing attack had a lot of hiccups,
like guys weren't getting open. Part of it was because
they didn't have a true X. They bring in Amari Cooper,
things open a little bit, but it doesn't open up enough.
Kinkaid gets hurt. And I think part of it was
the play design and schematics that Brady had, And I

(59:25):
tie that into what I want to see more from
with Kincaid. I don't want the twelve personnel stuff to
go away. I don't want him to not be hipped
off anymore and all that stuff like I mentioned, but
I want more quasi X stuff, like give me a
three by one and he's the one on the backside,
Like I want him used more as a receiver in
a multitude of ways, because I think teams are gonna

(59:45):
have a problem covering him there on the outside, especially
with how diversified they are with the receiving room now,
and even losing Mac Collins I think is a significant
blow because of how good of a blocker he was.
He essentially was like another tight end when he was
out there on the field. How good of a blocker
he is. But I need more quasi X stuff from
Dalton Kincaid give me And with the addition of Spencer

(01:00:10):
Jackson Hawes, give me thirteen personnel right with a six
offensive lineman on the field and the condensed part the
bodies all by the line of scrimmage. Knox can be
your why or Hawes can be your why. I don't care.
The other one is hipped off of him and Alec
Anderson is hipped off of them, or let's flip it further.

(01:00:31):
Alec Anderson is your why and Kincaid and Hawes are
flipped up hipped off of Anderson. And then what do
you have is the solo receiver out there? It's Dalton
Kinkaid and what are you doing? Are you playing in
with a corner? Cool? Is it one on one? Probably
because you respect the heavy personnel package that the Bills
have and how good their run game is. Now you've
got one on ones on the outside. Or you can

(01:00:52):
just stick with the ground game that works. Out of
those looks, you have the opportunity to run duo. You
can do the blast motion counterpower stuff, you can do
week side mid zone and throw motion attached to it,
or just stay as is. There's so much that can
work with that. I don't want the twelve and him
being within the formation to go away, But I really

(01:01:13):
do want to just see more of him as a
quasi X because I think that's where you unlock the
mismatch potential.

Speaker 3 (01:01:18):
I completely agree with all of that, and honestly, it's
back to the broad point that I talked about early
in the episode, Like I think they showed their hand
early with drafting Hawes. I really think it told us
everything we needed to know about what they think of
Dalton Kinkaid and how they can maximize him in the offense.

(01:01:39):
I think they know what he is where he lacks
some ability, but where they can get the most out
of him, and that's as a receiver. If you want
to get the most out of that draft pick, you
need to free him up. And I think getting Jackson
Hawes it only opens up the menu more for Dalton
Kinkaid and honestly more for Joe Brady in the offense. Holistically,

(01:02:03):
it allows them to do so many different unique things
with personnel groupings and dictating to the defense. You just
went through one example there, like there's so manyone that
there's so many different permit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
And it really does how to happen, and I do
think it happens more outside, Like you can do stuff
with him in the slot, Like I like the idea
of having him be the number three to the trip
side because then you're probably getting him lined up on
a linebacker on the but I think that's guy and
I like a little more on the slot.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
I get what you're saying in get him into the
the pseudo X thing, because when you get when you
get Kincaid into the slot, truthfully, all it's gonna do
is get him into a stick route, and I want
him to do a little bit more than that. He
can run the route so much more, like he has
a great feel for the middle of the field overballs,
stick routes, Like he's a really reliable option in that way,

(01:02:57):
and it'll probably get more yards after the catch than
others doing it. But I still think you can maximize
him more than just hey, run this quick stick, run
this overball, like we Saustin Knox can do that, Like
we don't need to use Kinkaid to do that. So
I understand why you're saying, like I'd prefer him doing
this then get him as the number three in the.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
Slot, which crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
I just think, No, it's just maximizing it's just maximizing,
that's all it is. It's not to say that we
don't want it, it's just we want to see other
things worked in. We want to see this turn the
dial up on this a little bit more.

Speaker 1 (01:03:35):
I wanted him more than just like the RPO guy
or more than just like a like the blocker, Like
give me. We're not maximizing the skills. Sow treat him
like an AX, especially with you don't really have a
true AX, like you're hoping k Coman could grow into it.
You've got Palmer who can do the spurts and flashes
of it, just leaning and Kinkaid doing that like and

(01:03:55):
then see what you got going from there, and then
you can still and then you can get creative with
motion in personnel packages and exploded formations and reset in
the formation after like in shifts. There's there's a lot
of things you can do to monkey with the defense
and play Jedi mind trix.

Speaker 3 (01:04:09):
I mean, you're absolutely right in terms of the lack
of a true X on this team, Like the right
move is to do it by committee, Yes, between Palmer,
between Cole and the aggregate King Kane exactly. No, seriously,
moneyball it there's no reason not to. There's a bunch
of people who aren't necessarily clean prototypes for the X role,

(01:04:33):
but a bunch of guys that have parts of it.
So yeah, do it in the aggregate. I don't think
that's a problem. And that's kind of how this offense
runs anyways. It's just do everything in the aggregate. Like
we just talked about the RPO game being an extension
of the run game, like it's doing it in the aggregate.
The Bills couldn't figure out the run game for years,
and like that's helping it. So that's true, right, Like

(01:04:54):
why are we complaining? I do want to get back
to you made a comment on how how kincaid isn't
like the focal point of the offense the same way
Trey McBride or Brock Bauers are right, And I have
this one stat percent of targets per route.

Speaker 1 (01:05:11):
Oh okay, I was just say because I've got volume
stats which are just crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:05:15):
Continue, Yeah, I mean the volume stats are not start
same for those guys. It's insane. Yeah, So specifically, this
is why it's funny because mcbriden Browers are going to
be brought up in this but Kincaid was targeted on
twenty nine percent of his routes run in twenty twenty four. Okay,
that's the second highest among tight ends thirty six tight
ends with two hundred and fifty plus routes. Okay, So

(01:05:37):
Kinkaid only had two hundred and fifty nine routes. So
I set the qualifier right up against his. McBride and
Bowers were like, well into the five hundreds, right, he's crazy. Yeah,
they ran a lot of routes. But here's here's the thing.
This is why it's an interesting comment where you're saying
the offense isn't focused on Kinkaid the way it is
for these two. So Kinkaid was second among these thirty

(01:06:00):
six tight ends, First was McBride, third was Bowers.

Speaker 1 (01:06:03):
Fair, but my thing is more of the way they're targeted,
like designed for them versus completely agree.

Speaker 3 (01:06:11):
But there's still the component of when Kinkaid is running
a route, he is the focal point of the offense.
Is for these other tight.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
Ends, Yes, but I think I think that speaks to
Kincaid's individual ability more than it does the scheme opening
him up like this speak like they are running purposeful
things where yea designer is for them designers not even
just RPO designers, No, like what and low red zone

(01:06:41):
intermediate part of the field like in your own end,
Like they are running designers for these guys Kinkaid. Again,
the RPO stuff is probably gonna function into it like
a high amount in terms of that status targets percentage. Yes, yell,
but that that's like the biggest designer thing that isn't
even really a designer thing for Kincaid. It's just the
numbers thing like that could be anybody that they're spitting

(01:07:02):
it out to. Granted not necessarily anybody, but you get
what I'm saying. That's a crazy good stat because I
think that speaks more towards Kincaid's ability and alan what
Allan thinks of Kincaid than it does the offense designing
things for Kincaid as opposed to those other guys.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
That's we're completely we're completely a lockstep because I'm not
I'm not spitting that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:22):
Out there being like oh oh, I love it, just puts.

Speaker 3 (01:07:27):
Respective relative to the amount of routes that he runs,
he is being targeted at a rate that is equal
to these guys that were heralding as best at the
position as pass catchers, which.

Speaker 1 (01:07:38):
Is also crazy too that he doesn't have the same
sembilance of production at a rate basis, like obviously the
volume is going to be is not the same because
their volume is crazy high compared it is. But yeah, no,
that's a great stat pole because and again it I
think it fits in so well with this conversation because
you see that and you're like, oh, so like they
they are designing things for him, and it's like, no,
this just means he's winning or an and or Allen

(01:08:01):
is looking to him versus these other guys. Again, we're
gonna show some of it, even just like with what
Arizona does with like all their tight end delay stuff,
Like so much of it is just like where's where's trainmckbride,
Where's trainmckbride, and then the Raiders doing where's Bowers? And
what Ben Johnson did for Sambleporta all the time. Yeah,
it's just crazy, like what but especially Bowers and McBride,

(01:08:21):
who are volume monsters, and the focal point of the
offense is.

Speaker 3 (01:08:24):
Who I kind of want to I'm trying right now
to filter out all the behind the line of scrimmage
targets to see how watch to drop the.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Crazy.

Speaker 3 (01:08:35):
No, it wouldn't go that low, but I can't imagine
that it would go much lower than no any.

Speaker 1 (01:08:40):
But again it's it's an interesting point, like not even
interesting point. That's a valuable statpole to kind of put
that into perspective for kind of how he's using that focus.
I like that anything else on schematic usager, you want
to dive into the tape?

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
Uh, I think let's dive into the tape, because honestly,
I think schematic usage will probably come up even more
as we get examples.

Speaker 1 (01:09:00):
Copy that. All right, So to dive into the tape,
I was probably sharing my screen. That'd probably be a
great idea, right, all right, I'm gonna take off the
banner down there so we could see everything. Okay, cool.
So I've got a bunch of different plays clip Kendall.
I grabbed all three of those ones from the Titans
game because I thought they really spoke to several aspects

(01:09:22):
of the game that I wanted to speak to that
I knew we were gonna speak to. This is the
first one. This is third, This isn't the first in
sequential order, but the first play. Obviously we're gonna look
at here. This one is on a third and twelve
bills are down ten to seven. Here's Kinkaid down at
the bottom of the screen. And I think this again
some of the things we were talking about, right, like

(01:09:42):
what do you have up here? Like you got a
three here's the one Kinkaid is in that reduced split
or a squeeze split, nasty split, however you want to
look at it. But basically that quasi x I love
when they do that. And then they've also got the
running back kind of in an exploded alignment here, so
it's almost like another it's almost like a full like
a three by two instead, it's pretty much it is

(01:10:06):
and that effects you because we essentially get a smash
concept with Johnson in the flat Kinkaid corner. And just
to kind of put the athleticism in perspective, I wanted
to lean it here. Just watch Kinkaid go up and
just get this thing. He always has his hands reversed,
like he does the opposite of what you're taught like.
He's not a diamond catcher. He's a like reverse basket

(01:10:26):
catcher kind of guy. But just watch him go up climb,
the ladder tracks it the whole way, the fluidity brings
it in, survives contact, survives through the ground. Third and twelve, bang, Like,
I just I think we forget about some of that
athleticism that he brings in these types of moments on

(01:10:49):
a play like this and a good ball from Allen
to to put it away from the safety with the
cloud coverage underneath.

Speaker 3 (01:10:55):
This is one of those sneaky things where I see
him just getting space and being quarterback friendly because you
see how much space the safety is giving him. He's
hard backpedal during the stem of kin Kaid's route, so
much space to work. Yeah, like what is that seven
yards of space between him and the safety? Like if
you go back through the stem of his route, you

(01:11:16):
can see how hard the back pedal is from that safety.
Kin kid knows what he's running and if the space
is there. He's not trying to be deceptive here, like
there's this is lastly about this route.

Speaker 1 (01:11:26):
And real quick again this third and twelve, Like the
first down, Yeah, I'm horrible doing a straight line, but
the first down marker is here, so the safety is
significantly bailing me.

Speaker 3 (01:11:37):
He takes the space that exactly you just made my point.
So it's like he no, no, no, it was perfect because
he's backpedaling hard. He knows where the sticks are, he
knows the route he has to run. The safety is
giving him space. There's nothing flashy about this route. There's
nothing deceptive about it. There's no pacing here, not a
lot of such a crazy break. He just takes the space.

(01:11:58):
He gets there for Alan quick. It's quarterback friendly. You
can see Allen gets hit as he gets rid of
the ball. I mean it's his own alignment. But the
point is this is a quarterback friendly route. It's nothing
flashy about it. What's flashy is the catch point. The
catch point is flashy, but how he gets open it's
what the defense gave him, and he just.

Speaker 1 (01:12:17):
Got to the spot quickly for his guy. Exactly. Last
little thing. I just like the tine and the schematic
thing we talked about. Because you've got Ty Johnson in
this exploded alignment watch. It allows him to get into
his route faster, which causes the corner here to sit
on that route. It looks like we've got you know,

(01:12:37):
like a cover two to that side. Based on how
everything flows up top, I feel like this might end
up being Cover six because the corner stays with THET
with ke On underneath. But I don't know, plays out
weird at the top. I hate when coverages aren't clean.
It drives me absolutely say, but either way, it looks
like at the very least, they're playing cloud and you know,
a Cover two structure to the bottom of the field,

(01:12:58):
and Brownlee just sits there. He's got an Honor Ti
Johnson coming out of the backfield, which enhances all that
space to work. So I like that little design from Brady,
which is something they started doing in training camp, and
then carry it all the way through. Another one from
this game. We talked about this play earlier. This is
Jarvis brown Lee, junior rookie out of Louisville. Very good

(01:13:20):
rookie season, underrated rookie season, didn't get talked about a
lot because Tennessee had an absolutely terrible season. Really good
impress really good. Impressed. Man, We'll go in slow mo
watch him just get physical with Kincaid in the stem,
like almost kind of stuns him a little bit, gets

(01:13:40):
him upright, and you're like, okay, now what's gonna happen?
And Kinkaid just embraces the contact chops him off, separates,
and then this ball gets put a little above his
eye line, just plucks it and then gets forward. Just
this is what again another this is a two y
two two receivers here, two receivers here. He's not on

(01:14:01):
the line of scrimmage. They've got the slot on the
line here. But this is just another example getting him
out wide. The Titans chose to match him with a corner.
You've got the size advantage, you've got the frame advantage,
or played in real time, watch him just get hit
with that contact, play through ben, snap off and go again.
Another advantage of putting him outside and how does a
team try to match up with him in that regard?

Speaker 3 (01:14:22):
Yeah, this is I mean, I know we talked about
it earlier without the film, but yeah, this is the point. Like,
this is the mismatched threat that he is, the versatility
that he poses to defense, and how it makes it
really difficult for them to figure out what to do
when you split him out wide, especially as white as
they did here, right, Like, you don't hide him in
the slot. You put him out wide, and you force

(01:14:43):
these corners to be physical enough to deal with him.

Speaker 1 (01:14:46):
This quick little dig it's perfect for that.

Speaker 3 (01:14:48):
It plays through the contact and then yeah, at the
catch point once again he shows his hands.

Speaker 1 (01:14:53):
This is a lot of separation, like, and it might
not seem like, yeah, through physicality.

Speaker 3 (01:14:58):
That's physical separation and that's not you know, the route
running route savvy stuff. That's just being gretty, being physical
off the line of scrimmage and working through contact. And
he's able to do that because of who he's matched
up against and how they kind of played chess schematically
on this play.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Yep, just really nice piece. Again, put him outside, what
are you gonna do? Are you match with a corner? Okay,
and that's a physical corner who welcomes contact like Jarvis Brownlee,
Like that is not an easy thing to do. Again,
in that same game, Kean Coleman got jacked up a
bunch by Brownlee in press and a contact in his
stem like at the release in his stem like he

(01:15:35):
had some issues and kinkaid again kick Kid's a little
bit bigger than Coleman in terms of weight and the
frame aspect, so he plays that big body receiver piece.
But then he's also got some athleticisms from fluidity to
separate after he uses some of that size and frame.
This one's nice man coverage here against the Detroit Lions.
If you know two things about the Detroit Lions defense

(01:15:57):
in twenty twenty four, it was that they were significantly
injured all the time and play a ton of man coverage,
in particular Cover one. That's what you're gonna get here.
Kill Kincaid's on the outside two by two again, almost
kind of like a three by two because we have
exploded alignment here from the running back. This is rookie
cornerback Terry and Arnold, and we're just gonna get Dalton

(01:16:17):
Kincaid going in a little motion here, Arnold communicates and watch, Nope,
it's gonna play through the contact, body lean, feel the leverage.
I'm just gonna play this in real time so we
can get a better sense of it. Separate through and
separate and nice catch. And then this is my favorite

(01:16:40):
part point this guy in the first down, the little
swag on top of it so beautiful. And this is
the end zone angle of it. I paused it right here,
so Arnold try and right to get hands on Kincaid.
You saw I'm gonna go and two guys on him. Yes,
I'll gonna say even right here, trying to get a
little piece. He gets sucked in a bit, but Kinkaid

(01:17:01):
is already in the action with that left arm. Yep,
he's already chopping through. You can see the flash of white.
That's the glove on Kincaid's left hand. He chops through
the arms. Campbell's trying to get hands on him too,
but again the leverage and the combination of his size
and speed allows him to play through that. And then
watch him get through. He's about to stack Arnold, where's

(01:17:23):
my head at? I'm selling vertical body language. And then
again we don't get like eyes inside and some snap.
We don't get anything like that. He just feels the
lean and you can see it a little bit too.
Arnold is kind of trying over his feet exactly, and
so Kinkaid. All he knows he has to do is
I can just turn this way, and he's gonna go
this way for a little bit before having to get
into me. He breaks that phase and then because he

(01:17:47):
has got that athleticism, watch him separate on it again.
Good separation down the field, great ball from Allen right
on the money, and a nice hands catch place through
contact place with the ground. But again, what are we
getting from Dalton Kincaid? I gotta love the swag at
the end of that. What are we getting from daln
Konkaid outside on a corner? Use him in that skill set,

(01:18:10):
use him in that role schematically, because he's got the
size and frame and traits that present mismatched problems.

Speaker 3 (01:18:16):
I do like the subtlety to get him in short
motion here, just to kind of, you know, so he's
already moving, just so he's not static and he can
get a little bit of an athletic head start right
so he doesn't have to go full release package.

Speaker 1 (01:18:30):
And you know what's cool too real quick? What the
Bills would do This was a nice Brady thing that
I like. They would do this a bunch and they
would run a smash concept off of it. Like sometimes
you get a traditional like traditional hitch and then you
know the traditional corner. This time you essentially get a
little whip route from Samuel and then you get obviously
the corner there from Kincaid. But they would rotate it.
Sometimes the stationary guy would run the corner and sometimes

(01:18:52):
the motion guy would run the unathlete and then this
time it's the opposite. So this is a nice little ring.

Speaker 3 (01:18:57):
They were really really good with their short motions. Yeah,
and I like specifically getting the tight end in short
motion because it might mean, oh there's like a quarterback
run possibility here, we're getting him in on a block,
or it could mean so many different things, but for
this outcome, it kind of gets him going a little
bit quicker. Yes, and just I really love the hands

(01:19:18):
check hand check off the line of scrimmage is so
big for me.

Speaker 1 (01:19:21):
He plays right through the contact like and our techn
physical guy. Yes, and Arnold's physical. He welcomes that. And
Kincaid's like, nah, I'm just gonna play through it. Oh real,
real quick. I ran the numbers.

Speaker 3 (01:19:33):
He would be thirteenth among those thirty one tight ends
if you took out all the behind this line of scrimmage.

Speaker 1 (01:19:37):
Stro So he goes from second to thirteenth.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
Second to thirteenth, It drops him about like six and
a half percent target rates.

Speaker 1 (01:19:44):
I knew it.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
It's definitely a decent chunk, but it's still top half
of the league.

Speaker 1 (01:19:49):
Oh yeah, which I still I kind of guess wasn't
expecting as well. Man, Yeah, that's funny, good call, nice pull.
Oh I love this throw from this angle, So throw
the throw makes it this one. Nothing crazy on this one,
just being super quarterback friendly. He scramble drill you know what.
This one is touchdown against the Seattle Seahawks. What I

(01:20:09):
like about this one? Watch him go across, so he's
running his little drag route. As he goes, he Id's
looks back, sees what's going on with Alan. Watch him
bring his eyes back, feels and slightly. He can see
that I preferral. He sees that the corner is sitting there.
So what does he do? Gets his eyes back inside,

(01:20:31):
sees that Alan is on the move. Let me stop
my route and get quarterback friendly and work back and
why I'm wide open? Like that's just such a He
was a big scramble drill component guy a couple of
years ago, as was Diggs, But without Digs, I think
Diggs and Kid were like number one and two. Gave Gave.

(01:20:51):
Davis was big you know previous years as well. And
so with Davis gone and then Digs gone, Kinka needed
to kind of pick up that mantle. And this is
a good example him doing that again. What does it
come down to? We talked about it his feel for space,
his feel for leverage. He understands, like you can see him,
just like get his bearings. I'm looking at the quarterback,
I'm looking at the coverage. I'm looking back at the quarterback.
Let me find the space, and not even let me

(01:21:13):
find the space. I know where the space is. Let
me work to it. He immediately works to the space,
and even one last piece as he turns back upfield,
obviously he puts the brakes on, looks slightly bang. It's
that yeah, I can't see him, id Dodson. Yes, that
quick little head turn right there, just to get enough

(01:21:34):
sense of where this guy is, so he knows I
can go this way, and then I'm funneling into that
space to take advantage. And that's exactly where he goes.
He bends it up field. Just really nice sense.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
Big part of that too, is kind of being no
nonsense about it, like he's not really trying to get
into the body of Woolen or cross Woolen.

Speaker 1 (01:21:51):
He's very intentional.

Speaker 3 (01:21:52):
About Okay, if I'm not hit at this point in
this route, I'm not getting the ball on this route,
so I need to make an adjustment. And as you
already showed, even beyond just the basic if I'm not
hit by this point in the route, he sees Alan,
he sees what's going on in the pocket. He's done
all of the visual gymnastics to figure out where he

(01:22:14):
needs to be to be QB friendly and makes it
a walk in touchdown.

Speaker 1 (01:22:18):
So nice, just in this it seems so easy, and
it's like.

Speaker 3 (01:22:22):
Because it's an innate feel, like he just he gets
the spacing. It's really just something innately built in him.
I don't understand it. I mean, there are people who
do this really well, but it's rare. It's a rare ability.
This is not something you see all across the NFL.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
No, he's got just such a good feel for that space.
Yam Bank takes full advantage of it. Nice one there,
this one condensed look. We got some reduced formational with
But what do we have again? Surprise surprise, A little
three over here, a little one over here. This time
he's on the line. We've got a quasi X and

(01:23:00):
who is he matched up against. He's matched up against
PJ Lock, who is a safety, and watch him just
own PJ Lock with a little out and up and
then makes a really nice catchdown field. On a great
ball from Josh Allen. Also, I'm just gonna mention this once.
Watch the blitz pick up from Ty Johnson. I don't

(01:23:21):
have the end zone angle, which I should have, but
watched the Blitz pick up. Boo just up ends his man.
So beautiful, so poetic. But yeah, again, match the great route.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
It's a great route, turns his head back to the quarterback.

Speaker 1 (01:23:36):
Tempo.

Speaker 3 (01:23:37):
Yeah, really sells it. I mean, that's that's what you
have to do on this out and up. If you're
not turning over that outside shoulder, no one's gonna bite
and try to undercut that route. And you can see
once he you can see if you slow it down
when he kind of peeks over that left shoulder, you
can see lock change his angle and he kind of
gets flat and he tries to drive underneath it exactly.

(01:23:57):
It's like, oh, this is a pick, this is easy.
Pick six drives on it and you can see right
there how much Kinkaid is leaning on that left shoulder
and that left foot and then he drives off of it,
gets upfield on it. But you really have to sell
that component or else the route means nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:24:13):
Look at how like you said, like that he's leaning
on that to get here, and look at PJ. Lock
is hauling it to go here. And so now all
of a sudden he's got to stop because k K's upfield.
And look at the difference. Now, look at the body
shape and the lean for PJ Lock and he reached
out it just exactly he's playing. Look at him, now,

(01:24:34):
let me grab. I'm trying to slow him down. I'm
trying to obstruct him. I'm trying to do anything I can.
And again some size and frame benefit and some fluidity
because he's able to get by and not be impeded.
Great ball from Allen. And that's what this is also too,
Like a nice catch, like a nice hands catch away
from the body falling down to the ground, you're tracking it.

(01:24:57):
That's a nice grab. It's right. He loves the basket catch. Yep,
he doesn't. He's not this kind of guy. He's he
will do this. He'll get me weirdly downfield some times.
But yeah, he is a kind of reverse hands. That
not a diamond. I don't I don't know what they
call this because I got yelled at every time I
did it. I only but yeah, that's a really nice

(01:25:18):
grab and it's cold, it's the playoffs. The ground is hard,
it's easy for the ball to come lose. You got
a defender draped on you.

Speaker 3 (01:25:24):
I was wondering why I hadn't seen this one before this.
I don't think I looked at any of the playoff snaps.

Speaker 1 (01:25:29):
When you didn't include it in the list you sent
to me, I was like, I bet you didn't look
at the playoff snaps. This is just the one that
matters the most. But yeah, I like to watch any
of the playoff targets. This was towards the end of
the game. I think it was like twenty eight to
seven at this point. This was one of the final
nails on the Coffin game against Tennessee. Here we get
to cover one look from the Tennessee Titans. They've got
three safeties on the field. This man right here is

(01:25:50):
a safety. So you've got a safety trying to cover
Dalon Kincaid mono emano, which doesn't make sense because in
Spanish that means hand to hand, which I guess could
be man. But whatever. When I learned Spanish, like, I
was like, that doesn't make any sense. Why is it
always that doesn't mean one on one that means, you know,
a hand in hand, which I guess I don't know,
maybe it's slang whatever, but man coverage against the safety advantage.

(01:26:12):
Donkey cade, I'm gonna show from two angles, watch a
little that little stab. Safety is already leaning. He's reaching
the job. Yep, you reach. I teach chop right through
again like you said that quick little arm over to
drive that disconnect. Now let's sell vertical. You don't know
where I'm going? Am I going right? Am I going left?
Am I staying vertical? What am I doing?

Speaker 3 (01:26:33):
This?

Speaker 1 (01:26:34):
Safety is in chase mode. Want to get some separation? Bang?
And then this is funny he does make look at
now he's got the diamond. And then this is also
to that kind of the example, talking deep like he's
catching it while also kind of making that drop stuff.
He's catching it.

Speaker 3 (01:26:49):
Yeah, he's trying to get upfield. He knows exactly where
he is on field. He's already trying to reach for
the pylon.

Speaker 1 (01:26:55):
Good awareness. Ball comes loose, but it was a catch.
Here is is kincaid again? Circle there. I just like
this end zone angle because yeah, it really shows the
release boom gets them leaning, and then it also highlights
the separation. Actually, I want to go back to to
highlight the arm over piece. Just watch the snap. Watch it.
The timing of it too, right, Like the movement as

(01:27:17):
he stabs and is avoiding as he's moving the arm
over and the chop is coming right through. It's all fluid.
There's no disjointed there's no there's no disjointing, there's no disruption,
there's no hurky jerky. That's what I say. With the
technical fluidity, like it all just flows.

Speaker 3 (01:27:35):
Well, he has no movements. It's so efficient.

Speaker 1 (01:27:39):
And then look at the separation on the end zone
a like bro like that's it's a single high safety,
that single high safety unless it's Ed Reid is.

Speaker 3 (01:27:47):
I mean that safety was also driving on the route
before he broke off the stem. You could see he
knew that the corner route was coming and Kinkaid was
just into it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:58):
Yeah, he opens to it and Allan throws it to
the spot. Kid Kid's able to get there.

Speaker 3 (01:28:05):
But again he's too clean off the line of scrimmage,
like the safety had no chance to cover one safety.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
That is oh so nice, nice catch. He's already thinking,
let me get into the end zone. Gets hit a
little short.

Speaker 3 (01:28:15):
Honestly, if he doesn't stumble a little bit there on
the turn up field, I think he might have had
the pylon.

Speaker 1 (01:28:21):
That's clean. But again, it kind of puts into like
Tennessee is like, all right, cool, let's go three safeties
and try and match them this way. Yeah, Nope, it's
tough answer.

Speaker 3 (01:28:30):
It's it's really a tough thing to defend, and it
needs the Bills really need to weaponize this more. And
I truly think Jackson Hawes does that for them.

Speaker 1 (01:28:42):
I just want him to get more in space. Again,
I don't I don't want him to be just a receiver.
I don't want him just to be that because it
takes away some of the dictation element and the menu
maximization element for the offense. But he's just such an
advantage in these scenarios. Last one here, this is a
target that was not a completion. A lot of people

(01:29:03):
like to point in his stats and be like, oh,
he doesn't have this many yards or this many touchdowns
as these other guys, YadA, YadA. Maybe some of these
reasons we talk about the catchuple targets wide open and
Alan just puts it a little too far. Please don't
yell at me because I've slandered Josh Allen. Please don't
do that. I don't know if anyone in the chat
is going to do that. I know he's the MVP,

(01:29:23):
and YadA YadA and all that, but the like he
missed out on a touchdown here, the one that yes,
And the first thought that got me was like, okay,
did he throw this with anticipation? And that's why. But
Kinkaid is already working through and Allen starts to throw
this like this has to be a completion. Even if
Kinkaid slows up a little bit, you don't have to
lead him that far. And if we want to play

(01:29:43):
Devil's Advocate, it does hit him a bit on the
fingertips and bobble, so maybe he still could have caught it,
but it doesn't need to be as difficult if a
catch as it is. The defense bites and again he
pleas got a nickel corner on him. Kenny Moore still
one of the best nickels in the league. Kenny Moore
tries to get like, create some contact, create a collision
point and watch kin kid just play through it. Yeah,

(01:30:06):
kind of arm over him and just goes through. Yeah,
And he's wide open. Just a little bit of a
missed opportunity there between the two. Any thoughts on that.
I mean, he's got the goods.

Speaker 3 (01:30:18):
It's just it's really just piecing it all together in
terms of usage, in terms of figuring out this catchable
target rate thing. Like, everything is there, Everything is there
for King Kid, and I think, I know this is
the last thing, so I'm kind of doing more of
a summary, but everything is there for Kinkaid. It's really

(01:30:42):
just about all of it coming together in year three
because we saw so much of it in year one,
and I think a lot of people thought he took
that step back this year, but you can see there
are so many moments in the film where you're like,
he didn't.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
Take a step back.

Speaker 3 (01:30:58):
There were just some oppertun tunities that didn't come to
fruition the way it did as a rookie. So I
think there's still a lot of reasons to be excited,
especially on the pass catching front.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
I agree. Now, let's take a look at Dalton Kincaid,
the run blocker, gonna show some good, show some bad.
So we got a three by one here. He's not
on the line. Shakir is on the line, but show
some of what he can do. This is Dalton Kincaid
on former Bill Jordan Poyer right here. But just to

(01:31:29):
kind of give a sense, just watch the willingness, the effort.
This is a good block from Kincaid. Maybe a little
bit of a hold, but the willingness, the contact he sustains.
It gets a little too far out inside or inside,
but then again Cook cuts back. That's not his fault.
But look at him, get on him, get his hands on,
drive drives them that. I will take that every day

(01:31:51):
of that. If he can just do that more, that's awesome,
considering the pass catcher that he is. And even look
at the little bit little nastiness on the end of
it as he drives it. I'll watch him chuck him
a little bit, a little bit of some nastiness.

Speaker 3 (01:32:06):
But that's what we mean. Like he's very willing. It's
it's not about an effort thing. The effort is there.
It's really just a technique thing.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
Fully.

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
Yeah, you can see like, yeah, the hand placement there,
the slight hold at the end of it when when
Cook hits the cut.

Speaker 1 (01:32:23):
Because his hands get a little bit too outside of
ployer's frame and he gets a little out of control.

Speaker 3 (01:32:28):
Like it's just small polishing things and you can kind
of start to maximize what he is as a blocker.
But I mean, I don't want to say he's close
to maximize, but like he can get better. But yeah,
I think when we went the scale one to ten, like,
I don't think he's getting he's ever gonna clip six.

Speaker 1 (01:32:47):
But I was literally saying, like he could climb to
like a five and a half.

Speaker 3 (01:32:51):
I think it's possible to get to six. And that's it.
It's it's gonna take some time. There's things to clean up,
but you can see the potential here. And I think
the effort is the biggest thing when it comes to
blocking potential.

Speaker 1 (01:33:02):
Yes, it's a huge, huge piece, especially considering how much
of a plus he is as a receiver. Again, like
we talked about this one. I didn't remember this in
the season. I really like the design of this one.
I'm gonna let this play out. Watch him. They're faking
like they're giving this to cook. And then we get
a little orbit toss right and kin Kaid is still
right here. He puts a pivot on and again these

(01:33:23):
two examples I wanted to show, right, who's the first
guy that he's having a successful block against, Jordan Poyer.
Who's this next one? Is he having a successful block against? Yes,
Jalen Ramsey. So two defensive backs, guys that he has
the size advantage against. He is a willing blocker. But
because the technique and the size and the frame, yes,
from a thickness standpoint is in there, he's not gonna
be you know, the guy that he's gonna win on

(01:33:45):
the line of scrimmage against defensive lineman or against bigger
thumpin type of linebackers. But you get him on DB's
the effort and then the size and frame allows him
to win. So he puts the brakes on, goes outside.
Let's watch him finish here. Just get on Ramsey, bang
gets low, pops him, drives him out a little bit.
I don't care what happens in the rest of the play.
Look at that Ramsey tries to meet him boom.

Speaker 3 (01:34:08):
I mean even before you went down to break down,
like how they're getting him on defensive packs. Just the
idea of getting him on the move to block people
is already a win. Like you want to maximize his
movement skills, almost use him as a lead blocker in
a sense here it makes so much sense. If we

(01:34:29):
can get him to a point where he can start
taking on like some weak side linebackers, that's a huge win.
But you know, that's, like I said, a huge win
and probably a bit down the road.

Speaker 1 (01:34:40):
But yeah, this is a great design. I also did
not remember this at all. A little bit of a
counterfeel to it. Yeah, so shout out to uh, I'm
gonna circle Spencer Brown, watch Spencer Brown troves on this one.
He trips and then still still crazy. But yeah, I
like this little design. And again, what do you do

(01:35:01):
get kin kid out in space? A little mismatch advantage
as a blocker. I like this one too because he'll
get a bit upright at times. I'm gonna show it
on some of the ones that he struggles. I like it. Lead.
This is what you're kind of hitting that pad and
they teach you you're trying to make three points of
contact all on once. It's in the front of your helmet,
your forehead there along with your hands. You're trying to

(01:35:22):
get all three, bring your hips and jam and bring
yourself through. He creates those points of contact and then
plays through. You see a little bit of the weight
transfer through the hips through the body and look at
it knock Ramsey back. It knocks him on his heels,
widens that hole a little bit, takes him out of
the play. Yeah, it's more than obstruction. It's moving people.
A little bit of some people movement. Uh Gay example

(01:35:45):
here against again against another defensive back, this time for
the Cardinals. This is early in the season, week one.
This is kind of like the good and the willing,
but also not so great, Like I'd love for him
to sustain this a little more. It's like behind a
little bit. Alan still scored, but this is one like
clean up that technique. If you watch he has him, yes,

(01:36:06):
but the hands, you're just like they're just a little
Why get inside the frame or if you're gonna get
those hands, you gotta clamp down and then bring your feet,
understand your angle, understand your body positioning. He just gets
peaked and then left like this this disconnect and this
discard is.

Speaker 3 (01:36:23):
Just gonna say disconnect, like it seems like there's so
much disconnection between like his core and his limbs. On
this one, it feels like he's he's way too overtoes,
way too lungey on this and he's just trying to
get to the block versus get to the block with
like good body positioning, like a sturdy base. He's not

(01:36:46):
really driving through him in any way, he's just kind
of like lunging at his chest.

Speaker 1 (01:36:50):
Your hands are what control, your feet are what drive,
and he forgets to bring his feet yep, like there's
no he comes through good drive, right, and then he
almost kind of like stops moving his feet like he's
just chilling.

Speaker 3 (01:37:03):
Well because he never had his hands at that point, and.

Speaker 1 (01:37:06):
Now he's disconnected and then he gets caught lunging and leaning.
Finish that man, Like you have the size and frame advantage.
I want you to drive him through the end zone,
like get into him, bury him. Also, even from a
design standpoint, grant, you don't necessarily know like where the
run is gonna go. But if Alan is keeping this thing,
he's going out here. So if anything, you yeah, you

(01:37:31):
want to be here so Alan can beat that edge
defender to the corner. So it's just body positioning, a
little better hand placement, bringing your feet again. Some things
to clean up, but the willingness is there, the want
to is there. Here's him attached in the line of
scrimmage heavy. Look here Alec Anderson is a sixth offensive lineman.
Then then you've got Knox here and mister Kincaid highlighted

(01:37:52):
over there. This is where we start to see some
of the struggles. Just watch him get tossed around a
little bit. This is Mac Wilson for the Cardinals. Just yeah,
rag down him a little bit there, like and you
see that. You want to see a bit more of
ownership of that inside. He's more nail than he is hammer.

(01:38:13):
Wilson's starting to get through him. He gets put upright,
there's no force, he's getting knocked off his feet. Then
he gives up the inside and then Wilson just chucks
him and rag dons him. And that's where you start
to see again against more like physical linebackers, against bigger
bodies in general, but more physical guys. That's where you
start to see the technique will kind of hinder him

(01:38:34):
a little bit, and it needs to be on point
again because of he is more of a lankier frame
type of guy.

Speaker 3 (01:38:39):
And I do think that's where some hope can still
remain is when you watch some of this, you're like,
there is some technique that he could clean up and
some stuff that even if it's just exactly a little.

Speaker 1 (01:38:51):
Bit and seal just be more of an obstructor exactly
drive him to the moon.

Speaker 3 (01:38:55):
But when you set this block up, you need to
set it up stronger on your right shoulder. You need
to get inside of him much stronger.

Speaker 1 (01:39:03):
Yeah, I do.

Speaker 3 (01:39:04):
I do, honestly get a little bit more hopeful from
some of these losses because you see how poor the
technique is and you're like, yes, we have people who
can coach him on that, and we see that he's willing.
Willingness plus lack of technique means room to grow.

Speaker 1 (01:39:18):
Yes, very fair that one. There another one against the
Arizona Cardinals. He uses a lot of that. And it's
the technique they teach you, offensive Lineman. It's like the
chromer technique. And then Boris teaches as well, like they'll
chop down that hand and use it, try and get
inside position, whether they turn.

Speaker 3 (01:39:36):
And base block a guy or just like first things
first get inside by chopping.

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
Shop and then get that inside position, even if you're
just shielding him and kind of going through him as
opposed to like getting hands on and turning and grabbing
and driving re establish hands later, yes, but you'll like
sometimes you'll see them they'll chop that hand and instead
of kind of turning to meet the guy, they'll just
continue to go this way because the whole idea is

(01:40:01):
they want to win inside position and make this guy
go like this, because by the time he does that,
this one is already hit north and south and they're
not going to get there because of the angle. But
you'll see Kinkaid go for that move. And again, this
is a bigger bodied edge. This is still's like this
is a two hundred and eighty six pound so not
the biggest live tech's.

Speaker 3 (01:40:21):
That's like a true four eye type player.

Speaker 1 (01:40:24):
That's gonna be a mismatch for a lot of tight ends.
But it just puts into respective like this is not
what you want for him, and again it's disadvantage for him.
This is an area where well, he should be owning
this guy, but you'd like to see him struck him
a little bit more if possible. Instead, it's just a
straight like, no, let me just just get out of
my way, like he just knocks it back.

Speaker 3 (01:40:44):
No, but you're right, like, this is a really good
example to show some of the ways that Joe Brady
might feel limited, yes, in how he's calling plays, how
he's setting up his personnel.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
Packages, stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (01:40:57):
Like when you're playing odd front defense is it's probably
a little bit more difficult to get Dalton Kincaid in line.

Speaker 1 (01:41:05):
And when you're blocking a dude that has that much
weight on you, like, look at this, like there's no
power in that base. You are upright, You're already getting
knocked back, like there's no lean, there's no leverage, there's
no drive. You are like at a disadvantage there for
a bit, and he just gets driven back into the backfield.
This one here, this is a good example of what
you can do to kind of counter some things. So

(01:41:25):
you'll see defenses or offenses will do this, like they
will arc this tight end. So this is a dafe
oh way rather than have Kincaid block him. I love
this play design. And again this isn't just a Bill's thing.
You see college teams doing. NFL teams do what they
will arc this tight end. So he's going to kind
of show to kind of hold and influence this man.
Then circle around and go to Brandon Stevens. So again

(01:41:47):
now you get him on a corner, which is an
advantage to Kincaid. And then what's really nice is the
influence here holds away and then Gilliam comes and just
cleans him out. But we'll go and slow moll here,
so a little influence. Now what's Away doing looking at
me like, oh okay, he's gonna base block me. Let me
go after him. And Kikaid's like, psych, I'm going to
the corner and now always like uh oh, I was

(01:42:09):
just acting on this and here comes Reggie Gilliam who
just drives him out to widen the hole. And now
you've got Kincaid going back to focus on kid. Just
watch Kinkaid get onto Stevens willingness and then drive him,
drives him. You even see again he's still a little
high right, like he's not low, but because he has

(01:42:29):
the size and frame advantage, he can get away a little.

Speaker 3 (01:42:32):
Yeah, it's just it just gets frustrating, you know, because
you want to see him work onto the bigger bodies
and you don't want to see the offense get so
limited from that perspective. But this works here, like this
is this is really really good play design in terms
of work with what you have.

Speaker 1 (01:42:51):
Yeah, some things you can do, all right now, Duncan
Kaid inserting size advantage Buddha Baker. Buddha Baker is an
absolute wolverine. And you see Baker get jumping tell us
a lot, yeah right, jump inside. What is he doing?

(01:43:11):
He's leaning, he's lunging a little bit. The body positioning
is off, and you see him kind of just crumple
tries to almost tackle him a little bit. Could have
been called for a hole. Doesn't get called for a
hold here. There's another hole that gets called somewhere else
on this play. Yeah, they can see the ref though
the flag there. But if we play just in real
time again watching k go through, you see him just

(01:43:32):
gets caught a little bit too much. Baker again, Baker
super physical, juiced up, has the leverage advantage in the
lower center of gravity. But you'd like to see Kinkage
just bring the feet a little bit more, get better
body positioning instead of getting caught kind of too much
over your toes, leaning, lunging and essentially trying to just
grab and drag.

Speaker 3 (01:43:49):
Very similar to the other play in this Cardinals game
where he's just a little odd in terms of his
pursuit of this angle and how he's kind of pursuing
the block engagement and like he knows where Cook is going.
Obviously he bounces it left. But either way, if he
were to take the inside shoulder a little bit stronger,

(01:44:10):
you can seal him off. And I think he's like
waiting for Baker to come to him versus.

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
Yeah, it's almost like exactly, he's almost waiting for Buddha
to declare. And you know.

Speaker 3 (01:44:23):
Where the play design is, go establish yourself and be
that obstruction. Instead he kind of established himself like a
yard too soon.

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Yeah, and this is just duo, like Anderson is working
to seven because you're white. White beats him the spot.
So Cook just cuts it back like usually this hits
more front side. But you know that you are like Buddha,
Baker is your man. You know this is the unblocked defender.
Buddha Baker is your man. Get to your man, don't
get caught lunching. Better body position, better kind of tempoing

(01:44:55):
of it. This one's another good example just showing the effort.
Watch him try and do everything he can to stay
in between his man and the ball. Might not be
the cleanest of the best, but it's just effort. Effort,
effort and actually ends up doing a good jump.

Speaker 3 (01:45:09):
That's that's kind of where the past catching athleticism shows
itself as a blocker.

Speaker 1 (01:45:15):
And again, this might seem like a cop out all
if you're saying he's willing, it means he's not a
good blocker. This matter. This is just pure effort. He
makes a block here just because of effort. Look at
him try again through the whole thing, Bobbin and Weavin Nope, okay,
let me try again, nope, let me try again, okay.
And then Cook His path allows Kinkaid to eventually get
a good block. But that effort matters a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:45:35):
Here almost works symbiotically with cook slashing ability right, because
he'll just keep slashing off of whatever this second thing is.

Speaker 1 (01:45:43):
He's trying to match kind they're like slalom skiers. But again,
that effort matters, it does.

Speaker 3 (01:45:49):
It's really a huge part of this, this piece.

Speaker 1 (01:45:52):
They're this puzzle NICs run Cook there. Jack's got bodied
in this game. Here's a good example of that, you know,
kind of just the lack of physicality. He's gonna go
for that arm chop, right, and watch him just chop
the arm and then nothing happens and he just gets
driven into Cook. Okay, okay, okay, Yeah, and see now

(01:46:16):
this is one where again you're trying. It's almost like
he gets caught in that body position aspect. I don't
know if he was trying to just run through him
and make him go this way so he could climb
and get Wiggins, but the movement here like he just
doesn't and he's stationary. And then before he knows that,
the defenders into him because he's almost like still looking

(01:46:37):
at Wiggins like he's trying to get through, but he's home. Yeah,
and he just gets driven down the line and into
James Cook. Yeah, it kind of looks like he yeah,
I think you have this.

Speaker 3 (01:46:48):
He he knows he has two assignments here and he
kind of got little preoccupied with assignment number two and
never really finished assignment number one.

Speaker 1 (01:46:57):
Yeah, because again they'll just they'll hit that quick hand,
make this guy go this way, and then go and
get this guy because here you go, here you go.
Now you've got a man accounted for. You create this
unblocked defender out here, but you don't care because he's
going upfield and he's not gonna be able to do
anything to get this quick hitting run inside and you've
got a hat on a hat everywhere else.

Speaker 3 (01:47:18):
I mean, worse comes to worst. You don't get to
assignment too. I like Cook's chances to make Wiggins miss.

Speaker 1 (01:47:24):
Yeah, I mean if that does happen and you get
like a seal there, like maybe he gets a little
cleaner through here. Again, Hamilton's in a good spot, so
maybe it's only a couple of yards difference, but sure,
just the example there of Dalton Kincaid as a blocker,
lack of physicality there, and how that can be a
bit of a hindrance Kendall anything else on the pure

(01:47:46):
Dalton Konkid aspect as a pass catcher run blocker before
we sow some tape of some other good tight ends
and then get out of here.

Speaker 3 (01:47:53):
I think the main thing for King Kid that I'm
taking away because I watched my own blocking stuff, but
I didn't get nearly as far through as I know
you did. There's still stuff to work with here, Like
I really want to harp on that, like willingness piece,
And I know.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
It's not that matters a lot. Will matters a lot.

Speaker 3 (01:48:13):
I know it's so stupid and it sounds like nothing,
but like football is a physical sport, if you don't
want to be physical, you're not going to succeed. He
he wants to be. There might be some physical limitations,
but he wants it, and that's more than half the
battle in football. So I really, really truly think getting

(01:48:35):
some of these technical and some of the I guess
mental assignment stuff cleaned up in terms of like decision
making on like oh should I force stronger on the
inside or the outside shoulder? Where should I prioritize my
seal hand placement stuff, being consistent with your base and

(01:48:55):
your hand placement, all of that, like symbiotically working together.
All that technique stuff can work itself out through your
time being a pro. And I it will get better,
but it can't get better unless you're willing.

Speaker 1 (01:49:11):
And I think he has that knocked out.

Speaker 3 (01:49:12):
So I'm hopeful it will get better, but it's gonna
be piece by piece.

Speaker 1 (01:49:18):
It'll be incremental. I like the comments here. James says
the spirit is willing, and then music Blocker eighty seven said,
but the flesh is weak. That was good. Yeah, yeah,
all right, so now we're gonna now we're heah good Jef, Yeah,
all right, we're gonna show some stuff here for three
tight ends, Trey McBride, Sam Laporta, and Brock Bauers. Just

(01:49:41):
as a point of reference for some how other guys
are used and also just as a point of reference.
So Dalton kincaid alignment snap rates from twenty twenty four
twenty six point eight percent of the time he was
in line, so attached to the line of scrimmage, fifty
six point four percent of the time he was in
the slot, fifteen point seve seven percent of the time
he was out wide, So not a lot of inline

(01:50:04):
tight end stuff. That was Knox, that was Alec Anderson,
even Quenton Morris. So you're seeing him more in the slot,
more out wide, more of a pass catching element. First
guy here, we're gonna show Trey McBride. So again, Kinkaid
twenty six point eight percent of the time in line,
Trey McBride thirty nine point nine percent of the time
he was in line, so almost a full actually a
thirteen point one percentage point increase from an inline perspective,

(01:50:27):
which is a lot slot decently close. McBride fifty one
point nine percent to Kinkad's fifty six point four out
wide is the big difference. McBride only seven point seven
percent of his snaps came out wide. Kincaid's again fifteen
point seven huge target share difference as well.

Speaker 3 (01:50:47):
Uh, you have one hundred and forty seven targets this season.

Speaker 1 (01:50:51):
So yeah, Kincaid just regular season seventy five targets per
SIS in twenty twenty four. McBride one hundred and forty six,
so almost a full doubling, second most for tight end
in the NFL. Bowers was first at one hundred and
fifty four. And then this is also crazy considering the volume, right,

(01:51:12):
the volume that McBride had, So those one hundred and
forty six targets second amongst all tight ends out of
thirty six tight ends with at least forty targets. He
was tied for eleventh in EPA per target. He was
second in overall EPA, and he was sixth in positive
play percentage and that is the percentage of passes thrown
to him that resulted in positive EPA or IE a

(01:51:34):
successful play for the offense. So from a volume standpoint,
he cooked. From an efficiency standpoint, he cooked compared to Kincaid. Again,
out of those thirty six tight ends with at least
forty targets. Kincaid was twenty first in EPA per target
versus McBride's eleventh. Kinkaid was twenty second in EPA to

(01:51:54):
McBride's second. And then positive play percentage is that big one.
McBride was sixth. Kincaid was thirty third out of thirty
six tight ends in positive play percentage, or percentage of
passes thrown to him that resulted in possible.

Speaker 3 (01:52:08):
We got to find a way to filter these stats
for catchable targets.

Speaker 1 (01:52:11):
That is also but see dad, that's literally next to
my notes there, like, so the uncatchable aspect obviously playing
a role.

Speaker 3 (01:52:16):
Just we got to find a way data ways.

Speaker 1 (01:52:20):
Let's just watch some stuff on train McBride balling out.
I think the physicality in the size after the catch
is a big difference with McBride. He's Tray McBride is
we were talking about it offline, one of the best
tight ends in football overall, better blocker than he gets
credit for. He's big, he's athletic, he's physical, he's got
good hands, he's got some crispness and suddenness to his routes.

(01:52:40):
But he's also got athleticism and kind of a bit
of a bulldozer feel to him. Yeah, when I tweeted
this play during the season, I said, he just turns
into a T one thousand after the catch, so three
by one he's the one condensed formation. He's on the
line of scrimmage. Watch him just run this drag route
and Sauce Gardner tries to tackle him and he says no,

(01:53:00):
and then he's like, I'm just gonna hurtle guy. Just
that's just silly.

Speaker 3 (01:53:05):
He's such a special combination of athleticism, like he is
the complete package of tight end.

Speaker 1 (01:53:12):
I this is I don't I don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:53:15):
I'm lost for words every time I watch Dray McBride
because I think back to like his days at Colorado State, right, Like,
this is exactly what he looked like at Colorado State,
and now he's doing it in.

Speaker 1 (01:53:25):
The pros, right Like, this stuff shouldn't translate, and it
does and West NFL, right, this is on third down
gets the first down. Here's another one. Again, we talked
about that thirteen percentage point difference in in line versus kincaid.
Here he is in line spread look, but he's still
in line. This catch is insane. Not a lot of suddenness,

(01:53:47):
not a lot of deception on the route. But watch
the speed. Watch how he just eats up the cushion
against the safety and then plays through him and makes
a crazy good catch and draws the flat because he
got held on it too. I forgot. Here's the end
zone angle of it. Watch him out of his stance.

(01:54:07):
I love how low he gets in his stance. You
see the power in the first Yeah, watch this catch
from this angle, a little tripped up there through the stumble,
knees down. Great play again, the athleticism, the power, Like

(01:54:28):
he's got more power to his movements, more explosion. But
from a power standpoint, he's a.

Speaker 3 (01:54:34):
Little less, a little less fluid, a little more rigid
than Kinkaid.

Speaker 1 (01:54:38):
But he makes up for it because he has more power. Yeah,
there's another one vertical. It's not ridiculous. This is them
down by like three with like a minute and ten
or twenty something left in the game. Like this was
a big play here again matched up against Richie, Grant
just hauls it, high tails it, plays through him, comes

(01:54:59):
back to the ball ketch and then the wherewithal to
try and fight to be like wait a minute. I'm
not down, Let me get up and then carry some
guys a little bit, just and then he gets about it,
gets it right in his face, lets him know a

(01:55:19):
little bit. This is the end zone. Angle on it.
Just like the way he tracks the ball comes back
to it again. You see him high tailing it out.
Let me track. I love how he doesn't try to
just let the past interference happen. He plays, No, he
wants the ball. Ye plays through and that's a hard catch.
I hate to say this, but that is the catch.

Speaker 3 (01:55:35):
That's literally the catch that that's you.

Speaker 1 (01:55:37):
Would have loved for Kink to make that kind of catch.
Granted the ball was like helicopter in a bit. Yeah,
get up, get up? Oh just real pretty Uh. This
one's a nice one. Just the athleticism as he plays
through his hands.

Speaker 3 (01:55:56):
You don't think someone that moves like him, because he
moves like he's a blocking tight end in so many ways,
like he's such a straight line mover. Doesn't have the
best lateral agility, but he's really good hand eye coordination.

Speaker 1 (01:56:12):
I also love on this one Ernest Jones here number thirteen.
I love how McBride sees him and make sure as
he's in his drop to make sure he gets underneath yep,
exactly and flattens. Good ball from Kyler. Good adjustment Foray McBride.
The athleticism, the power. This is talking about the design
and the scheme. Arizona does a good job of like

(01:56:34):
factoring things out for him and designers for him. I
wish the bills ran more tight end leak and tight
end delay. I feel like it works sixty percent of
the time. It works every time. But this is just again,
more athleticism and foolishness. Sells the blocking, gets up field
and then yep, just because I can sell it, sell it. Boom,

(01:56:57):
get a field, run through the contact, turn around, catch
in the sunlight, has to find the ball, turns around,
makes it just look at the fluidity too, like as
he makes the catch, like just a seamless catch. Get
up field, jump over it. So stupid. This one a
little bit of the athleticism and speed, but also some

(01:57:20):
of the physicality. Rips through that edge, runs a drag route,
runs away from a corner, gets upfield, tries to hurt
a little.

Speaker 3 (01:57:31):
Yeah, he knows everyone's going low on him because he's
so big.

Speaker 1 (01:57:35):
And this one's a good example too rip right through
bank speed, the separation, the athleticism, the awareness, just a
different different type of dude. It's just a different it's
just a different type of guy. But let's watch him
as a blocker, right, you might thinking, okay, cool, like
what does he do as a run blocker versus a
pass protector? This is him. This is from two years

(01:57:59):
of no I don't remember, but against see this is
the difference now with big difference. Like I don't think
he's an amazing blocker. He's not George Kittle, but he's
much more functional and much more of a plus blocker
than Kincaid. And I think this is what really separates
them a lot. Like watch him block Gregory and just
steal him inside. Yeah, like that's so nice. Bang the

(01:58:24):
hands in the body position, turns them get just get
in between. Just get in between your the defender and
the ball. That's it. And that's all he does. Gets
the hands, a little bit of the contact, turns him inside,
moves his feet with his hands, keep turning.

Speaker 3 (01:58:37):
It's so much more connected, Like, yes, this entire process
of blocking is so much more connected than Kincaid's. You
can see from a technical standpoint, he's generating force from
the ground with a really strong wide base.

Speaker 1 (01:58:52):
Yes, and then James Connor, James Connor is super underrated.
I just want to kind of point that out. I
really like this design. We get like we're getting the
blast motion and this is going to go out to
the right and he slams on the brakes and it
turns into split zone and watch him I d Jonathan
Grenard and bank.

Speaker 3 (01:59:15):
Yeah, I honestly feel I feel like they need to
use kincaid in this way more because it's kind of
a cheap block, right, Like it's it's a really easy
way to make.

Speaker 1 (01:59:24):
A hard block goood edge. Grenard comes screaming down, take
advantage of it. Yeah, I like this. I like this
design more than anything like the last motions, Like especially
with what they do with all their gap scheme stuff.
You're thinking that's going to the right and he slams
on the brakes, cuts backside a little split zone. Bank
another one against UH Minnesota. Just what he can do

(01:59:48):
on the double team. M hm, big mountain of a
man here, defensive tackle. Again, this isn't all him, but
watch some of the displacement. Watch how low he gets
gets into that shoulder helps drive, create some displacement, and
then climbs to his man. But the run develops so
he doesn't get to his man. But you see a
little bit again assemblance, more of that physicality at the

(02:00:09):
point of attack, what he's able to do, a little
bit create some more drive. This one here against the Rams,
this is him getting beat a little bit, right. I
watched multiple games of tight ends against the Rams front
because they have such good edges, and I've come to
the conclusion that Jared Verse and and Byron Younger just

(02:00:30):
absolute monsters. Like this isn't even Verse. Yeah, it's like
and you see McBride get initial like okay, yeah, okay,
I'm all right. Nope, I'm stood up. Uhh uhh uhh
uh oh. So even again, like he just gets driven
through and then young makes the play. So again, this

(02:00:50):
one I'm talking about, Like, he's not George Kittle, He's
not some guy who's just a racing edges and winning
in the run all the time. But even this is decent.
It's not an immediate loss. Yeah, you're not getting owned.
You're just getting driven back a little bit and compressed
a bit.

Speaker 3 (02:01:03):
If this run were to cut right, you don't even
care about what happened McBride on display.

Speaker 1 (02:01:08):
Correct because they're running. Let's see here we are going.
We got the jet motion going that way, a bit
of that split zone type of Look here, as that
comes across, You're like thinking, this is going there. Theoretically,
could one cut to the right, Yeah, but Monterrek Brown
blows it up, and so Connor's like, oh, let me
go this way. The RAMS tape is awesome to watch.

(02:01:30):
Another one here, this one against the Chargers. Good edge play,
a little faint and you know, hold on Khalil Mack
there like psych, I'm gonna block you, just kidding. Let
me climb to the second level. Watch him stay attached,
watch him drive. Doesn't want to draw the hold, so
he lets go. He's got the size advantage against Denzel Perriman,
the linebacker that he's blocking. But see him get to

(02:01:51):
the second level, get attached, move his feet, let's go
when he needs to. Not amazing, but serviceable, functionable. Here's
one where he struggles a little bit right, Let's climb
to the second level. Let's make a block. I get
a little too ass over tea kettle. Yeah, a little.

Speaker 3 (02:02:09):
Uh, little head, buddy, there.

Speaker 1 (02:02:13):
Yeah, leads with this head a little too much climbing.
And it's a shame too because the approach isn't bad.

Speaker 3 (02:02:18):
Why base, he's ready, good position. I don't know why
he just led with his head.

Speaker 1 (02:02:23):
But again putting this out there for like folks who
see this and think like, oh, he can't do what
these other guys do. Like these guys still have like
some ugly areas to their game. And this is a
Titan who I'd love and try. McBride, nice one here
to go down the line. Watch him meet tell Us boom.

(02:02:45):
See he's got a little more hammer to his game.
You see a little more meet him. Stale made them
stayed too, Mattellus is trying to play through him a
little bit in case that run leaks out and it's
just not happening with McBride. Yeah, this one here a
little double team action on Braden Fisk. See them move him,

(02:03:11):
stay on him and then try and get to the
second level. Try to get.

Speaker 3 (02:03:15):
It's very clear like if from from the blocking and
the receiving of McBride, Like sure, McBride might lose a
step a little bit on Kinkaid when it comes to
route savviness and separation skills, maybe release off the line
of scrimmage, but it's not enough like what he has

(02:03:37):
on Kincaid as a blocker. It's the value almost equals
out And honestly, it might even be greater for McBride
because of what it means to his offense and his scheme.

Speaker 1 (02:03:48):
I think because he.

Speaker 3 (02:03:49):
Can do more because of how well rounded he is. Like, sure,
you can't split him out wide the way you can't
with Kinkaid, and that might take some plays off your menu.
Kinkaid's doing the same thing in the blocking ass different ways,
taking place the menu in a different way.

Speaker 1 (02:04:06):
I think like for me, like Kinkaid on a scale
at one to ten, as a receiver is like an
eight and a half or a nine, I think McBride
is like an eight to an eight and a half.

Speaker 3 (02:04:18):
The athleticism I was gonna say, I was gonna say
more like a seven and a half.

Speaker 1 (02:04:22):
Honestly, I love I just think McBride is he's such
a better route runner that he gets credit for in
his feel for zone and spaces. See that's my that's
my thing with him.

Speaker 3 (02:04:32):
I think it's it's more of a feel for zone
than it is the pure route running like for sure.

Speaker 1 (02:04:39):
But then he's also and what he does after the
catch is just I also think he's a better blocker
for like, so I feel like if you add up
the running the run blocking in the past aspect on
a scale of one to ten, I feel like it
advocates exactly. I feel like he's like a fifteen and
Kinkaid's like a thirteen. Yep, yep, right now, it's looking
some Sam Laporta, who had one of the best offensive

(02:05:01):
minds designing things for him at Detroit. One of my
biggest gripes the past year was, like, man, I really
thought Brady would tap into some of the Ben Johnson
tight end stuff, especially as they went more condensed and
more run focused like the Lions have been. But here's
Sam Laporta. This route is awesome up sell in the
corner psych just completely and again it's tied to the

(02:05:25):
play action.

Speaker 3 (02:05:25):
But how he the way they use him deep like
it's so different from most tight ends.

Speaker 1 (02:05:31):
Yes, again, good, that's an excellent point, like because he
gets compared to Laporta so much, but their usage is
so much different. The style of offense there in is
so much different. Yeah, And I say that as a
person who had Laporta ahead of Dalton Kincaid in my
draft rankings, and I would still take Laporta ahead of
Kincaid right now. But I like that route, like sell it,

(02:05:51):
get that safety to open up, like he see he
times it as soon as he sees Grant really laterally
bang it's over. But again it's tied to design and
a little bit of the porter that is designed for
la Porta, like, yeah, the whole way African kid, this
is a really nice one. Him lined up as that
quasi X working through a linebacker. I'm gonna show how

(02:06:17):
this route develops, really because I just want to show
the end zone angle, full extension on the catch. Yeah,
play through the contact again, not as technically sound like
he gets the arm over a little bit, when he
really just plays through more physically than he does from
a technique standpoint, I.

Speaker 3 (02:06:34):
Mean the receiver skills that he always possessed and then
going to Iowa helped him so much. Yes, really well
rounded his game. He was always as receiver.

Speaker 1 (02:06:45):
Just look at that. That's so pretty. Not again, but
not the separation, not the level necessarily of athleticism, but
the physicality and the hands allow him to have that
success there. That's actually decent coverage. Two there, Oh yeah,
but sain't enough this one. I like this again, some Laporta,
some design. Let's send him on the motion. He's gonna

(02:07:11):
throttle down still on that right side. Watch him get
vertical and get into the body of Jalen Johnson and
then snaps it off and creates separation against the premier corner. Nice,
but again that's that's some Laporta. That's some Ben Johnson.
Get him in motion. Look a look at what Jalen

(02:07:32):
Johnson does. Number one on the far right of the screen.
He is almost leaving our screen because he thinks Laporta
is gonna keep going. So Ben Johnson created some leverage
and some space for him, and Laporta takes advantage and
does the rest. So this is some design, some Laporta.
Again a difference between what the bills. The Bills don't
do this kind of stuff, but again it don't necessarily
have to because they get inside the five and they're like,

(02:07:53):
all right, cool, Josh, do you want to get it
in or do you want to give it to one
of the running backs? Okay, you're gonna run it in,
got it? Another one here against the Packers. A little
inbreaker catch through contact. Golf throws this ball away a
lot of trust right throws it away from Kway. Walker
doesn't want to lead Laporta into all this mess throw

(02:08:15):
he throws it away. But look at the athleticism to
reach that plays through a bang snatches it nice. This
is from Laporta's rookie year. He's against Rasul Douglas. Here
Bill's legend. Nice little arm over on the hands. This
again after the catch difference, not a ton of separation.

(02:08:36):
Golf puts it on him, but then break the cackle,
stiff arm carry a man a little bit again, different
type of player. I want to see these because I
think too much we players get compared to other players
and we don't take into account the scheme or the
usage or the style of player that they are. And
you could value it, you know, more one than the other.
But we saw how Kincaid wins. This is how the

(02:08:59):
Porta wins between a combination of scheme and his ability.
This is another really good scheme, schemed up one. There's
Laporta going in the motion. I like this. This is
from two years ago. Watch how Josh Reynolds drains the coverage.
I'm on ra sits here to Mario Davis nails down

(02:09:20):
on him and watch all the space that this creates.

Speaker 3 (02:09:23):
Oh I remember this, yeah, I remember that one.

Speaker 1 (02:09:26):
Clean into the end zone. Really nice design.

Speaker 3 (02:09:29):
Sneaky trail, sneaky trail design.

Speaker 1 (02:09:32):
Yep, a little bit of a follow a little bit,
I feel like. And if you're playing mad and this
is like, you know, why trail whatever, why trail?

Speaker 3 (02:09:39):
I was gonna say, empty y trail?

Speaker 1 (02:09:42):
Nice? Just nice again, design differences, right, you'd see the
seed just part, really nice piece. Now let's show him
as a blocker, show him as a blocker. This one
a little bit of a wham block. You see a

(02:10:05):
little bit of the pop here boom. It's not not
not huge sustained driving the man, but you see that
bang pop'am. Just drive him a little bit, pop him
and drive him a little bit. Boom. Gives us so
fast mm hmm.

Speaker 3 (02:10:26):
See that was that was good positioning to get on
that inside shoulder early one.

Speaker 1 (02:10:30):
Yeah, yep, watch that. Yep, he see that step that
step right out of it explodes inside because he knows
the positioning he needs to get and he's going against
a bigger body guy who has the advantage on him.
But he gets underneath him and again he's not driving him,
he's not crushing him, but he's doing enough to stay
in between him. And then he gets under him and

(02:10:51):
is able to continue to drive him and do enough. Again,
this run goes out the front door s ag.

Speaker 3 (02:10:55):
Yeah it doesn't even matter. But either way the rep
is still if it were to be more of an
inside rep from Gibbs, He's done a.

Speaker 1 (02:11:04):
Positioning, he's obstructed, he's challenged the defender. Yeah, this one
is a win for Jared Verse. Watch the porter come
in motion and versus just like get Away from Me. Oh,
lots of just Barry Montgomery, but again.

Speaker 3 (02:11:22):
This is the show likes he's trying to be physical
with him.

Speaker 1 (02:11:26):
He's just got beat And this is the first game
of the year, like for Verse, a rookie year in
the NFL, and he's already just like Premiere, passing people right,
just crazy. But he gets a little bit. He's trying
to you know, he gets square to the line and
he's trying to be force full but ends up getting
caught lungees. Maybe this time, just next time, be a

(02:11:47):
little more safe, just try And.

Speaker 3 (02:11:50):
It's hard to say he did much wrong here, right,
Like it's just a great play by a really good
play but again the idea.

Speaker 1 (02:11:56):
Sometimes things happen. I think he's a better blocker than Kincaid,
but things can still happen. This is him at fullback.
Nice little usage for him here. Watch him get backside.
And this is him against Young, so again this is
good exactly. That's what I wanted to show with like
his because he's got more of a stockier, dense frame.

(02:12:19):
Look at the difference when he meets Young head on
head boom. He doesn't get knocked back. He doesn't get
blown back again, he doesn't he all he has to
do is obstruct because of where this run is probably
gonna go. It wanted to hit up inside. Montgomery bounces it,
but you don't see him get chucked out of the club.
He gets low.

Speaker 3 (02:12:33):
He makes was never gonna make that play if that
run went inside. No, Yeah, it's good. Sustain, good anchor.
That's again against Hoyt, right, Yes.

Speaker 1 (02:12:46):
It is good. Pull gets in again the effort. Battle
gets a little help from forty three, who bangs into
Hoyt a little bit. But you see that ability to
kind of battle with actual defensive linemen to not get
completely rest right away, like tends to happen a little
bit more to Dalton Kinkaid, right, mm hmm. There's a

(02:13:09):
reporter here, look at nice lean leverage, but gets driven
inside and then man ends up making a play.

Speaker 3 (02:13:17):
M So I was gonna say, look good off the snap, but.

Speaker 1 (02:13:21):
Then he's just saying has the ability to battle, can
win some reps against the edges, but also a bit
inconsistent again, so that's not like he. I think he
gets built a little bit like George Kittle light at times,
which now maybe accurate depending on how light you view it,
but yeah, you see him kind of just get driven
back by somewhat of a smaller edge for the bears there.
This one I really like. This is from two years ago,

(02:13:45):
a little bit of like that blast motion into the block.
Watch how he helps widen the hole with the physicality bang.
I like that one.

Speaker 3 (02:13:54):
Like.

Speaker 1 (02:13:54):
I don't know if kin Kaid has that level of
physicality plus form to execute something like that, but I
like this again, different usage, different skill sets, different usage,
different skill sets. Him going up against fifty four again,
Oh no, I'm lying, I'm an idiot. This is incorrect.

(02:14:14):
I was like, wait a minute, why does he look
so different? This is watch hi mountain space. I like
the contact here and drive a little bit of pop. Yeah,
driving man against an actual linebacker who likes to be
I remember forty one from the preseason and his hair
and him just looking like a thicker Troy Palamalu if there.

Speaker 3 (02:14:32):
I was gonna say hard not to remember him.

Speaker 1 (02:14:34):
Right, This is him against UH fifty four initially, but
then what do we get a little bit of that
similar arc type of deal. Let's bark that edge. Let's
get to the second level. Then watch the contact as
he gets into his man and watch him drive him
down field, drive him.

Speaker 3 (02:14:59):
Yeah, it's a good rep.

Speaker 1 (02:15:07):
Okay. And last one here, this is him against fifty
five against or not lined up initially against fifty five.
But what you get a little bit from him from
a split zone perspective. Not the cleanest, but catch the
job done, gets the job done. That's it again, that's
so much of it, right, Make it muddy, make it messy, obstruct,
do something like that. That can be.

Speaker 3 (02:15:27):
Fine, right, So what about you do you do? You
see Laporta as the in between version of Kincaid and McBride. Yes,
I think that spectrum of blocking if.

Speaker 1 (02:15:43):
I'm I think if we're going on the spectrum, we're
gonna get into Bowers here in a minute. I think
Kinkaid is the worst blocker out of all four, but
I think it goes Kincaid like Kinkaid is here. I
think Bowers is like here. Then I think Laporta is
like here, and then I think McBride is like a
little bit up here, like.

Speaker 3 (02:16:03):
I think, And you could do an in and you
could probably do an inverse list of receiving just perfectly
as well. And they just happened to coincide.

Speaker 1 (02:16:12):
I don't know. Bowers is pretty interest Bowers, sorry interesting
for me.

Speaker 3 (02:16:16):
Let's yeah, let's take Bowers out of it. Just with
those three, you could do an inverse list.

Speaker 1 (02:16:22):
Yeah, they're probably probably do Kincaid and then McBride and
then like Laporta. Yeah, it's kind of interesting how that works.
Scheme matters a lot for Laporta. But there's some of
the Bowers receiving stuff, like so this is obviously brock.
Bowers would do the pass catching stuff first, and I
know we've gone super long, and then we'll get out
of here. Watch him cook Jordan Brooks, who's like a
good linebacker from a cover standpoint. Watch the snap and

(02:16:45):
the juice on this Slanto get some leaning yeah, Bank
leaves them standing still. Bank really good foot work yep,
and then lowers the sh older to get through the
next linebacker. Boom. He plays this like like he's playing basketball. Oh,

(02:17:08):
it's so pretty. Juice to that game, which I like.
This is him as the number two in the trips
Brunch Brunch Bunch. This is Trent McDuffie, all pro corner
cool like the the the foot fire bang bang, and

(02:17:29):
then look like he gets mcduffey in the hands and
then he's got the juice to run by him. But
mcduffy gets back in face because McDuffie's super good now,
but Bowers is cool with that. You can get into
my body because I've got the size and the physicality.
Oh you're gonna hold my arm, that's fine. Here comes
a one hand to catch ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (02:17:50):
Yeah, it's such a crazy combination.

Speaker 1 (02:17:53):
Right nuts and he draws the flag. It still made
that catch. The athleticism overall coming through. But then he's
got some technique stuff too. Here's him in line here,
watch him release, get around the edge. Now there's Trimari

(02:18:14):
Connor number twenty seven on him. Watch he gets a
little bit of collision with Bolton. Watches Connor gets into
his body. Watch how he disconnects with the outside arm.
Go and rewind it a little bit. Watch him use
that outside arm comes right here. Watch him chop down
on the left arm of Connor. Bang right there, chops him.

(02:18:37):
Now Connor's body has turned a little bit and he
uses that to create the separation as he plays right
through it. And then look at the separation it creates
that he's got the athleticism tracks touchdown, but some technicality
and again literally just bang. But it's that quick little punch.

(02:18:57):
It's into the body, quick.

Speaker 3 (02:18:59):
Punch and the physicality of Connor off of him.

Speaker 1 (02:19:03):
He's the most similar to Kinkave. From a usage standpoint,
twenty six point four percent of his snaps came in line. Again,
Kinkaid was twenty six point eight. A lot of that
is because he plays with Michael Mayer tight end from
Notre Dame The Raiders took the year before. Mayer is
also a pretty good overall tight end, but he's more

(02:19:24):
run blocking than Bowers this, so they use him as
the why. Again. I think he blocks better than Kinkay,
but because they have Mayor, he ends up just being
the why.

Speaker 3 (02:19:34):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (02:19:34):
Mayor ends up being the why more often than not.
Here's more usage. Send him in the motion psych it's
return one on one with a corner, just in breaker
in a casual one handed catch. M just I also
love Jacoby Meyers number sixteen right here. Watch how watch
his little skip after Bowers makes the catch because it

(02:19:56):
gets him like excited a little bit. He's like, oh,
stip into a little head now there, little head bump,
Like that's funny again. Guys who ten do some outside
stuff not but not the level of separation, not necessarily
his fluid of an athlete. But he's got more size
to him, more physicality and addition to athleticism, different type

(02:20:17):
of winning, a little bit of a more technical aspect here, bunch,
he's the number one to the trips bunch this time.
Watch him just cook Witherspoon on this little whip route
and then pop back outside. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:20:35):
As much as there's like a fluidity to Bauer's game,
it doesn't it doesn't match Kincaid but there's a technicality
to it that feels a little bit more superior.

Speaker 1 (02:20:48):
And again he's only a one year sample size, so
we still don't like mc McBride has three years, Laporta
has two. Kincaid as too. This is rookie year Bowers
not great QB play a lot of craziness that uh
for the Raiders. This is him just I like the
way he slams on the breaks here and shakes Thompson.
That's nice. Kin k doesn't have that m.

Speaker 3 (02:21:11):
He has athleticism, but not necessarily like the fluidity.

Speaker 1 (02:21:15):
That King Kid has. It's it's hard.

Speaker 3 (02:21:17):
To describe because he moves a little bit more sudden.

Speaker 1 (02:21:21):
Yes, he's got more like sharpness and like change direction
to his game, whereas Kinkaid is more fluid. Like this
play right here. Bowers can make this out of the
guys we looked at. Bowers can make this, McBride can
make this. I don't think Kinkaid can. Laporta maybe could. Yeah, again,
just another element to bowers game. I like that cut,

(02:21:45):
like that's what that looks like? A colial security type
of cut, like a running back, which, yeah, exactly. And
then last piece here, this is him as a blocker.
Watch him get up on Delpit and drive him out,
stay connected, drive him downfield. Yeah real nice, get on

(02:22:06):
your man and you see Delpitz going forward and he
gets put hordes on. H No, it doesn't. Yeah, and
Delpit's hitting him in the face, knocking his head back.

Speaker 3 (02:22:14):
Bowers, you can get a little bit of help from
another defender there, didn't even really, don't get any ground on.

Speaker 1 (02:22:19):
It didn't change anything. If anything, it knocked thirty backwards. Yeah,
thirty comes right here. Oh nope, he gets hit off
this one. Nice little split zone run. Watch him just
take the legs out from Miles Garrett Boom.

Speaker 3 (02:22:40):
So you don't thinking Kaid has the force to execute
a split zone block.

Speaker 1 (02:22:45):
I don't know. I genuinely have a question with I
think he could do enough to obstruct. I don't know
if he's going to take guy's legs out and chop
him down like this. I don't know if he has
the density to the frame.

Speaker 3 (02:22:55):
I mean, I agree with that that part of it,
but I feel like that's a it's an easy to
win block. Yes, I think you'll lose that rep as
as tight.

Speaker 1 (02:23:05):
End instead of coming here like this and taking him
out at the knees. I think you could kind of
go here and do more like this, so at worst
it makes him pause or have to go this way,
and they still get in the same job done.

Speaker 3 (02:23:17):
Like I honestly as a blocker, think they should use
Kinkaid more like that because he has the athleticism to
get out there.

Speaker 1 (02:23:24):
And you could literally do this, like have him hipped
off like that and then cut.

Speaker 3 (02:23:27):
Back and then it allows you to do other things
in the past game off from that, Yes, formation.

Speaker 1 (02:23:34):
Some more attaching and driving from Bowers there again against
a smaller defender dB, but you see more of that
attached loses them as things get but the drive still
tenacity to drive. The connection stays. Now this is where
you start to see some struggles a little bit. This
is him against Ellis rookie from LSU LSU Utah. So

(02:23:58):
this is rookie on rookie. Watch him get gets caught
a little high. Timing isn't there, the body position isn't there.
It gets compressed, but again does enough to try and like,
can you obstruct enough? There's reps where you're gonna lose.
The timing isn't there. What can you do? Can you
try and anchor. He gets a little right there a
little bit, but still gets compressed. Guy helps make the play.

(02:24:22):
But again, Rookie, this is I like, this is a
play I can see Kincaid making yeah, or this happening
to Kincaid, I should say yeah. But once again, tight
end on an edge not a correct now here he
is on another edge run defending leaning type of edge
and Jonathan Cooper. Watch Cooper just get him with this
long arm and just compress the hell out of them. Yeah,

(02:24:46):
Bowers tries to turn him a little bit, but that
long nasty. That long arm is nasty.

Speaker 3 (02:24:51):
I mean, that's what would separate tight ends from other
tight ends, is how you can handle these edge rushers exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:24:58):
And this is why. Again he's more in line here,
So Mayor was out for this game, So what are
you gonna do? Like this would normally beat that Michael
Mayer type of role. Here he's probably in line, but
you're still trying to get it done with Bowers. He
just gets driven back and the hand placement isn't even bad, right,
like no gets the hands inside.

Speaker 3 (02:25:16):
But Cooper, I was gonna say that, Yeah, the technique
feels like it's a very connected generating force from the ground.

Speaker 1 (02:25:24):
Good pad level.

Speaker 3 (02:25:25):
Yeah, but yeah he just kind of yeah it gets
beat and again.

Speaker 1 (02:25:28):
That's a tough block for any defensive end and actual physicality,
especially one that leans run defense like Cooper, who's worth
assault as a run defender, Like he's gonna try and
beat your tight ends up. Yeah, here's one. I like
this one. This is too juxtaple. This is back to
back place for the Ravens. I like the first time
on this one. Send him in motion. Watch him goal

(02:25:50):
up against Malie Harrison. Bank gets driven back right, tries
to meet him with force on force, Boom gets knocked back,
kind of gums the play up. Little bit gets knocked
back into the pulling guard, messes things up. The next play,
same thing going the other way. Also again against Malik Harrison.
Watch him gear down and this time body is right.

(02:26:14):
Nice turn. Yeah, I'm not gonna go shoulder to shoulder
with him. He banged the hell out of me last time.
I'm just gonna Yeah. I like the way he throttles down.
This is what I would like to see. Yes, this
is what I want to see more of from Dalton
kin Kate. I don't think he's gonna be this people
mover hammer No, no, just get the body position. Yeah, bang,
nice leverage. Both guys are low hat on a hat.

(02:26:37):
Literally turn your body in sync with the hands. Boom.
Just shield, that's it. Just be a shepherd. Just shield.

Speaker 3 (02:26:44):
You're right though, because all it takes is half a second,
one second and you've won your block.

Speaker 1 (02:26:50):
Literally, I mean, given the this the scheme of the play,
Like look at this, he makes contact at the bottom
right here. It's one twenty four to seventy. So at
one twenty five, yeah, fifty four, he's already through, so
not even a full second later. You just need to hold.
So hold that block for a second. That's all you
gotta do. Most plays last like two and a half

(02:27:11):
to three seconds anyway. Just that's it. All you gotta
do is hold it just enough. That's why again, why
I think Boers is ahead of Kincaid there, because he's
got the feel for the body positioning and more physicality
to him.

Speaker 3 (02:27:27):
But yeah, I think body type helps him as well
as all of these guys, maybe outside of well, I
guess Laporta, but the closest comp in terms of a
body would be Laporta. They're probably both similarly like Lnky
and not so stocky in their upper and lower halves,

(02:27:48):
but like McBride has a clear advantage to all all
of these guys. He's a very stocky build. He's naturally
going to be more stout as a blocker. But I
think Bowers comes in a close second with that kind
of body.

Speaker 1 (02:28:00):
Yeah, and again everything body type, the usage. We wanted
to show these guys for the sake of the comparison
piece that happens so much. I feel like so much.
And maybe this is just unique to me, but I
feel like a lot of times when I get Kinkaid detractors,
it's oh. Also, James asked how many did how many

(02:28:22):
targets to Bowers get? Yeah, k Moore, he said one
fifty three. SIS had him at one fifty four, which
is crazy. Most amongst tight ends. He was twenty second
in EPA per target out of thirty six tight ends
or at least forty targets. He was twelveth in EPA
and sixteenth and positive play percentage. But he was their
passing offense, especially once they treated a device. It was

(02:28:42):
him in a little bit of Jakobe Myers. I'm interested
to see what they do going forward. But yeah, it's
I don't like when players get compared to others because
it's just not apples to apples in a variety of ways,
like the scheme that they're in, the offense that they're in,
the surrounding talent that they have. Like again, Bowers is
a good example, like the other tight ends on the

(02:29:04):
team that changes his usage, the other receivers on the
team that changes the quarterback that changes him, let alone
like the chaos their organization was in and everything that
was going on, Like there's it's so tough to just
be like, oh, well, this guy has more yards than
this guy or this guy, and that's not even taken
into account like just targets and volume and all these pieces.

(02:29:24):
But I thought it was interesting to show, for Oh,
this is a good apple from ka Morty. He says,
Kinkaid and Myers accounted for are I'm assuming you mean Bowers?
Oh there you go, thank you. He corrected it. So
Bowers and Michael Mayer accounted for over thirty percent of
the Raiders pass attempts and almost half the receptions. Yeah, yeah,
that was the focal point there, and Mayor's a good defense. Yes, yeah, yeah,

(02:29:46):
so much is, oh, well, this guy has more yards
than this guy, or this guy has more catches than
this guy, or touchdowns or whatever, and it's just not
it's not apples to apples. And I think what's interesting
with Kinkaid is what we broke down in this episode
where his skill set leans from a strength standpoint and
where his skill set needs some improvement in some area
of opportunity that can be fixed, but also the schematic usage.

(02:30:09):
And you know, some of the plays that you know
we showed there are designed for those guys, like that
first play we showed for Bowers, like he's purposefully that
inside receiver because they want to match it up on
a linebacker because they know the linebacker. But Kinkabe will
get some of that stuff too because he can succeed
in those type of roles. But then Bowers gets the
huge target share out of everything else because of the
lack of weapons and then the injury to Mayor and

(02:30:30):
everything else going on there and how much of a
run first team the Bills are, but then the Lions
are also on run first team. But Ben Johnson was
a tremendous play designer and did a great job getting
Laporta in advantageous positions all over the field, Brady. Is
it that he's not good at that or is it
that he hasn't needed to because they've leaned into other
aspects of the team and the offense that has rolled

(02:30:53):
and they haven't had to do that. McBride different offense,
focal point of the offense, even with Marvin Harrison Junior
coming through. But just he, I think is so much
of a not a unicorn. But he's got the size
and the athleticism and the burst and the explosion and
the physicality, like he's got more eggs and all those

(02:31:13):
different buckets yep, that allow him to be used in
different ways, and then you put him closer to the
line of scrimmage and allow him to just succeed in
a multitude of ways with that power and speed. And
it really is interesting, you know, watching how other successful
tight ends, especially younger ones who have similar time on
task and experience in the NFL Askincaid, how they get used,

(02:31:35):
how they play, how it's tied to their skill sets
and their play style, and then what it all means,
you know, when you're comparing these guys, which is I
think what we wanted to do in this episode.

Speaker 3 (02:31:43):
Yeah, No, I think we did a good job of
kind of showing where all of these guys fall on
the spectrum of tight end, because tight end is such
a unique position where you do so much more than
just one thing. They say, you're an athletic offensive lineman, right, like,
you're learning everything in offensive lineman and learn it. And
you're also learning everything a wide receiver would learn. So
the spectrum for where you would fall in your skill

(02:32:05):
set would fall can be so unique. So I think
we did a good job of showing how Dalton Kinkaid
is is a really unique player at a unique position,
and sometimes that needs to be contextualized when you're talking
about the expectations for that player, especially when you're trying
to compare him to his peers.

Speaker 1 (02:32:23):
Yes, then just especially those peers like I didn't even
go over, like la Laporta is an even bigger one, right,
Like people always compare Kincaid and Laporta because they were
in the same draft class class in Kaid again, twenty
six point eight percent of the time he was in
line in twenty twenty four, Laporta fifty point three. Yeah,

(02:32:44):
just off of that nowhere close in usage and again
that makes sense given their body type, their skill set,
and the type of offense they play in. But there's
so much that has to get taken into account with
how they're used and how they play. And yeah, I
am interested to see what but a healthy Dalt Kinkaid
looks like, what year three looks like for him. I
hope he gets used out wide even more. I don't

(02:33:06):
want him usage is the big thing. Yes, I don't
want him to completely go away from being used as
an actual tight end. And I'd still like some sprinkling up,
some inline stuff from time to time. And I would
prefer him being more hipped off than anything. Have Knox
be r y or Haws b or y or even
Alec Anderson be r y and Kincaid is that f
he is with that he is the move guy. Get

(02:33:27):
him outside, use him as that quasi X, use him
as that one on one guy. We showed it like
corners are gonna have a tough time, safety is gonna
have a tough time. Linebackers are gonna have an even
tougher time. Use him truly as that mismatch guy from
an alignment perspective, and just because he is the solo
guy or he is the number one. It doesn't mean
it has to be spread We showed it reduced formational with,

(02:33:47):
but he's that number one. It can be reduced formational
with in general. Or he could just be in a
squeeze split as an individual and the trip side is
a little bit wider and spread out. There's so many
more options you have with him, and I think they
can tap into that while still not losing their identity
as a run first team and a smash mouth downhill
at you displacement creating team on the ground, and that

(02:34:10):
could open up Kincaid. I think that opens up the offense,
also allows Kean Coleman to continue to develop and Breathe
allows you to still function in Shakir. Yeah, so maybe
we'll get him as the tip of the spirit this year.
Any parting thoughts on Kinkaid, the bills, any of these
other guys before we start to wind down here.

Speaker 3 (02:34:28):
Uh final answer, Dalton Kinkaid is not a bust.

Speaker 1 (02:34:32):
Correct. Correct. I was very worried that people would be like,
you think he's a bust, and I was like, nope.

Speaker 3 (02:34:37):
Hey, if you stuck around for two and a half hours,
you got your answer to the thumbnail, folks.

Speaker 1 (02:34:41):
That's true. I also said earlier, just in case people didn't,
I said, in like minute three, just you said we
might be a spoiler, and I was like, that's true,
that is true. Done, well done, good callback. Yeah, we
went very long in this episode, as I kind of
realized we would once I realized how long we talked
about Kinkaid. But this episode was awesome. I thought it
was very informative. I hope you folks like it. Speaking
of things folks should like. One Pie Pizza the best

(02:35:05):
pizza in Buffalo, New York. I don't say that because
they sponsor the show. They sponsor the show because I
think they truly are the best pizza in Buffalo, New York.
Sweet sauce pie cup and shar Pepperoni, a great cheese
sauce ratio, homemade blue cheese. It really is the best
pizza in Buffalo and worth every single penny. And what's
also nice, too, is they moved. I keep talking about

(02:35:26):
all the time. They moved into the catering world a
little bit as well. Their catering division is called Elevated
Catering a Buffalo. We're doing summer cookouts, birthday parties, grad parties,
anything and everything. Their catering options are great. They make
all these different homemade mac and cheeses and different options.
It really is like awesome. They also do a breakfast

(02:35:46):
pizza now at One Pie, which is great. So get
yourself some one Pie Pizza. Whatever form or fashion you
want to consume their goods in it, you will not
be disappointed. And again, like I always plug, they do
a lot of good for the community with the SPCA,
partner with the Alzheimer's Foundation, Toys for Tots, partner with Roswell,
and trying to knock out cancer. They're really good people
making really good food. Go get yourself some One Pie Pizza,

(02:36:08):
check out Elevated Catering of Buffalo all of that stuff.
Thank you very much to one Pire as always for
sponsoring the show. Kendall, Thank you very much to you
for joining me on this episode. Before you folks leave,
you're still watching live, but there's one hundred and seventeen
of you still here with us at eleven forty pm
on a Tuesday night. Please please please and thenk you
drop alike on this video. If you have not already,

(02:36:29):
if you are watching later, please please please and think
you drop alike on this video. Likes are the lifeblood
of these streams. They go a sincerely long way towards
helping us to track and trend in front of more
eyes and ears. We also got three dislikes or down votes.
I don't know why, so more likes help to kind
of boost that out WITHTHM even further. If you're listening
on to the podcasting apps or platforms, please rate, review,

(02:36:50):
and subscribe. Turn on notifications for the Disguised Covers playlist
here on YouTube. Subscribe to the cover one channel. Tell
your family and friends and loved ones about this show
if you enjoyed it, and I sincerely hope that you did.
If you did not enjoy this episode, tell your enemies
about it or about the show, and try and ruin
their day by making them watch this episode or this show.
Thank you everybody who tuned in live. It was awesome

(02:37:12):
to see all the back and forth the engagement. I
know I went a little radio silent while I was
doing all the films. So if there was anything we
didn't answer, feel free to get at me on Twitter
at pro Underscore Underscore and that's pro two Underscores a
n T. Get at me on blue Sky at pro
ant no underscores there, just p R A n T.
Get at Kendall on Twitter at mrsky Kendall m I
R sk y k E N d A l L.

Speaker 3 (02:37:36):
I always killed it now you killed it man.

Speaker 1 (02:37:38):
Thank you very much, appreciate it. Yeah, so if we
didn't get anything, get at us on the socials. Appreciate
everybody who tuned in who watched live. For those of
you who are with us for the entirety of this
marathon episode, thank you so much. That's awesome. We appreciate
you folks. Kendall, I appreciate you probably most of all,
for ride with me on this episode. This was super fun.
It's always awesome to link up and talk ball again.

(02:38:00):
And yeah, I appreciate you joining me. Appreciate all you folks,
and then I'll do it for us here in this
episode of disguise coverage. We hope you and your family
and friends and loved ones are all doing well and
staying safe. Be kind to one another, take care of
one another. We'll see you when we see you. Godspeed,
and as always go Bills

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Is Dalton Kincaid a bust? Breakdown, evaluation, usage, & more | DC

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Is Dalton Kincaid a bust? Breakdown, evaluation, usage, & more | DC