The top questions heading into Buffalo Bills training camp | DC - Disguised Coverage

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's thirty eight.

Speaker 2 (00:00):
All bills can win In here, Wake puts it down.
The kick is on the way and dock m the
bell good one?

Speaker 1 (00:07):
How the hell that one.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
Home?

Speaker 2 (00:11):
How one? They were a party one not party way? Incredible?
Why not combat by my bell?

Speaker 4 (00:19):
Jacksonville's perfect record on the line right here.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Quick.

Speaker 1 (00:30):
Kicking, look excited.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Touchdown Kyle Williams touchdound amazing, unbelievable. They puttied william who's

(00:54):
has to full back and he scores a touchdown.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
It's wealthier to face tackle.

Speaker 1 (01:16):
What's good? Folks, family, friends, loved ones, enemies, friend of
Me's wizards which is Muggles, mud bloods, people of Middle Earth.
To another episode of Disguise coverage the only podcast. It
gives you an equal amount of blueberries in each muffin,
presented by the best Pizza in Buffalo, New York. That
is One by Pizza. Finally, online menu in the episode
showing us. So they're here on YouTube or whichever podcasting

(01:36):
Apple platform you're listening to this show on. Also check
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every time. They're really good people making really good food,
so go give them a shout and a check out.
I'm your host, Anthony Prohaska. Find me on Twitter at
Pro Underscore underscore an that's pro, two underscores A and tin.

(02:00):
Me on Blue Sky at Pro and no underscores there,
just pro A n T. In this episode of Disguise Coverage,
it is Buffalo Bill's training camp eve. It is Tuesday
July twenty second, meaning Wednesday July twenty third, nine am
is when Buffalo Bill's training camp kicks off, and so
on tonight's show, we are going to be diving into

(02:22):
the top questions heading into Buffalo Bill's training camp. There's
a multitude of different titles I could have given for
this episode, but especially the crux of this episode is
answering several pieces, you know, questions, concerns, position groups, under
the radar, storylines, who are what you're most eager to
see during training camp, A bunch of pieces and avenues

(02:44):
like that as we get ready for training camp, which
will then lead us into the preseason and then lead
us into the regular season. So that's what we will
be diving into in this episode of Disgui's Coverage, and
I say we because I'm not alone in this episode.
I'm joined by the the same person who joined me
for this episode last year. I was gonna say at

(03:06):
this time, which is technically true but also probably not
the exact same date, But who cares those details that
people don't care about. Welcome to the show, mister Joe
Marino of Lockdown Bills, Lockdown NFL Scouting and all the
worlds that you live in that are all fantastic because
you do quality work. You're a quality person. I appreciate

(03:27):
you taking the time, especially knowing that you are an
early to bed, early to rise kind of guy, so
I appreciate you staying up late night and joining me.
Thank you very much.

Speaker 4 (03:35):
Welcome show, AP, It's good to be with you. Thanks
for having me on. I'm excited to talk training camp
and you know the things that are burning up my
mind right now. But of course, what we all know
about The dis Guy's Coverage podcast is that it's the
only podcast that gives you an equal amount of blueberries
and every muffin. Yes, and I've I've heard you say

(03:57):
that so many times, and I've I finally want to
ask you a question about that. Okay, what is the
amount of blueberries that's the ideal amount for a blueberry muffin?

Speaker 2 (04:09):
I mean it's one.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
It's one thing to say that you get the same
amount in every muffin, which who wouldn't love that consistency?

Speaker 2 (04:15):
But what's that number? What's that perfect number?

Speaker 1 (04:17):
You know what's funny is I don't know what that Well,
first let me I'll answer your question with a question.
Do you know where that line is from?

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Not a clue.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
So it's from the movie Casino Robert Niro Joe Pesci,
And essentially it's de Niro's running this casino and he's
sitting talking over business and he gets a muffin and
he opens it and it's just because that's just stupid thing.
The muffin distribution is just like terrible in his muffin
versus the blueberry muffin of the person he's sitting with.
And he interrupts the conversation to be like, you see this,

(04:47):
and the guy's like what, He's like, look at your
muffin and look at mine. He's like, this is terrible.
He gets up, takes the plates back to the kitchen,
and he just goes to the chef and say it
tells him this is unacceptable. He's like, there has to
be an equal amount of blueberries and each muffin. That's it.
So technically, I don't know the answer. If I had
to put a rough ast, I would say r J

(05:07):
says the correct answer is twenty seven. I would say
I would say, I feel like a handful is too
much because that could really overpower I think slightly less
than a handful. So I'm gonna say like eleven eleven
that's my answer, yeah, because I feel like if you've
got a handful, depending on how big your hand is,
that's I feel like that's twenty plus blueberries, and I
think that's going to overpower the muffin and it's just

(05:30):
going to be too much blueberry. So I feel like
kind of splitting that. Yeah, I'm thinking I'm thinking like
eleven to thirteen, depending on the size of the blueberry.

Speaker 4 (05:38):
I'll have to do some research. I have to grind
some tape. I'll have to eat a few blueberry muffins,
do the counts and figure out, like what's what's that amount.
I think it's an important thing for us to attack here.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
If anything, I'm actually significantly disappointing to myself for not
having a better answer. No one's ever asked me that,
nor have I ever thought of it. I feel, you know,
but you know, like kind of alluded to what you said.
We'll get better, we'll improve from here. I'll go back,
we'll study the tape, we'll self scout, and I'll figure
it out.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
Mission accomplished.

Speaker 4 (06:08):
I was hoping that you would get twisted up when
I asked that, and it happened.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
So I thought you were gonna ask me where's that from?
And so I was like, oh, yeah, the movie Casino,
And then you asked me how many blueberries in my head?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
I was like, b.

Speaker 1 (06:22):
I have an answer.

Speaker 2 (06:23):
I like that must have spoke to you.

Speaker 4 (06:25):
Casino must be like a big movie for you, one
of your favorites.

Speaker 1 (06:29):
Yes, it is a it's my it's my favorite, like
mob related movie like over Goodfellas, over the Untouchables, like
anything mob related, Godfather, anything like Casino is my number one,
and it is in my top five, like favorite movies
of all time.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
I feel like I want it.

Speaker 4 (06:47):
When I heard you go through that and saying that,
Robert de Niro said it, in my mind, I was
imagining that Robert de Niro voice. Yeah, now I want
to like see that scene.

Speaker 1 (06:56):
Yeah, it's every even even Claude comes in the comment
and the show is like do you know how long
that's gonna take? Yeah, the chef is like upset, and
de Niro's wearing like of course, like is DeNiro what
he also wants? He's wearing this like really fine like
suit and he's got the but he just brushes off
the crumbs and he like the hands plate. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
See it.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
It's a really good it's it's a quality movie. I've
seen it probably. Oh it's one of those movies too
that like they would play on these random movie channels
throughout like a lot of my twenties and that, so
like I could be on the computer like all jokes
as like I'd be on the computer like watching tape
or doing some football lady and I have Casino want
in the background. So I've watched it like front to back,
focused on it easily over like fifteen times, but then

(07:37):
having a play in the background, I probably watched it
like thirty plus times.

Speaker 2 (07:40):
Wow, that's a that's more than I have because I
have zero for me.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
You gotta get on it. I need you to watch
it and then tell me what you think, because it's
a it's a huge thing.

Speaker 4 (07:48):
Now I feel like this is Josh Allen and Kyle
Brandt's basement.

Speaker 2 (07:51):
You're giving me a movie assignment.

Speaker 1 (07:53):
You gotta get back to it. Yeah, ditch the stop
watching like football tape and I need you to watch
some casino tape.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Stop watch to Miss Rachel is more moral. That's what's
on to do right now. With the one year old.

Speaker 1 (08:04):
Little bunny Hop Hoop, Little bunny Hop Hop Hop. I've
never stick Sticky Gum gotch.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
Brother the sound that is the soundtrack of my life.

Speaker 1 (08:13):
Hear it my nightmares here in my nightmares.

Speaker 4 (08:16):
Mom, Mom, can there's a couple of bangers though, Like,
well the best ones.

Speaker 2 (08:24):
Sticky bubble Gum is terrific.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
That's a banger.

Speaker 4 (08:26):
Absolutely yeah, mister Son's Son, mister Golden Sun.

Speaker 2 (08:32):
Oh not bad, right, classic Elephant? Uh what would you do?
What would you say? Yes? La la la?

Speaker 1 (08:40):
Yeah, it's just we can keep talking, Miss Rachel if
you want. I'm here, you want, I want to.

Speaker 2 (08:46):
Do that, which what we appreciow.

Speaker 4 (08:48):
We talked about a farming podcast, so I mean, who
knows if we ever talked training camp.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
That's tomorrow, right? Is that tomorrow?

Speaker 3 (08:56):
I think?

Speaker 1 (08:57):
I guess I don't know who cares we're getting on
the farm or we're going from there. Yeah, that's also
kind of little peak for you know. I think we
started at like nine o three, nine or four, and
that's because Joe and I were talking offline about just
a bunch of Oh this is good, Charles said, draft dads,
that's good.

Speaker 2 (09:13):
Do it? Man? What's this? What's better than this?

Speaker 3 (09:16):
You know?

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I like it?

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Who? I like this one?

Speaker 1 (09:22):
What did I just turn into?

Speaker 2 (09:24):
We don't know, good question.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
We don't know how we got here?

Speaker 4 (09:28):
Just and the dude you start off the pre show
was like, hey man, we're gonna you know, we're gonna
be kind of businesslike here. You know, I'm gonna get
you out of here on time. I'm gonna ask you
these questions I may or may not like, weave in
my answers, and here I am talking about muffins and
miss Rachel.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
I don't know what we got here?

Speaker 2 (09:46):
Yeah, we got here.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
I guess I disguised the true you know, coverage that
we were going with on this episode.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
It's entropy. What is that word? I never heard of?
This word.

Speaker 4 (09:56):
You know, the guy that got hired by the Bills. Yeah,
he did the project on is it safety and is
it entropy?

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (10:01):
I believe so.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
I've never heard the word.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
I just know, yeah, entropy, and I confuse it with
the other one that it sounds like that. That's another
science related term. I'm more of the soft sciences like
sociology and psychology, not so much the hard sciences like
biology and chemistry.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
I'm not any of it. Yeah, so yeah, fair science
for me, just the science of football. Yeah, should we talk?

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Should we talk? Bills, save us? Save us?

Speaker 1 (10:24):
We could just do more, Miss Rachel karaoke. I'm down,
but I know, I know.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
Yeah, that's that'll be tomorrow all day for me.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
So it's fair.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
That is fair.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Uh So, yeah, we'll pivot and start talking Bill's training
camp pieces. We've got five questions that we will be
going through in this episode, and for those of you
watching live and and playing at home with us, feel
free to put into the comments your answers, your thoughts, comments, questions, concerns,
anything and everything you got. As we go through, feel

(10:55):
free to comment on our answers and our dialogue as
we go back and forth with one another and discuss
these questions and have an organic conversation about the Buffalo Bills,
football in general, anything and everything. So, yeah, Joe, we'll start.
We'll go in order from the list that I sent you,
and we'll start with this, the question that you need

(11:20):
answered the most coming out of training camp? What is it?

Speaker 2 (11:25):
And what?

Speaker 4 (11:26):
Yeah, I want to say the questions that you sent
in advance are good questions, but there's so many answers
that I could have given to the questions, which forces
you to pick the one thing that's most important. And
so I thought that was important for me to say
right off the bat, because I my goodness, there's so

(11:46):
many things I want question, so many questions I want answered,
But I think the one that I want answered most
is how ready is Maxwell Harriston?

Speaker 2 (11:55):
How ready.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Bill's first round pick corner out of Kentucky. The alternative
is Trey White and whatever's left in the tank there.
You know, I think in one hand, Trey White, you're concerned,
right the last few years have been injuries and kind
of coming back from it and had a healthy year
last year. But I mean the Rams signed him to

(12:19):
be a starter. They gave him four games as I
get out of town, gets to the Ravens and you know,
kind of plays in their dime package, and you don't
love the trajectory, but you're also mindful of, hey, maybe
a couple of years removed from the injury, maybe he
can go right and he knows the defense and that
type of stuff. But the reality is the excitement that
I have for Maxwell Harston transcends any curiosity that I

(12:43):
have about what's left of the tank for Trey White.
And we've never really seen McDermott with this type of
CB two, right, like, with not only the athletic profile
that he brings to the table, but just the investment
of a premium asset in a CB two. It's not

(13:06):
Levi Wallace or Dane Jackson or Kevin Johnson, you know,
or Josh Norman who was like.

Speaker 2 (13:12):
A fifth round pick.

Speaker 4 (13:13):
You know, this is a legit first round player with
a different skill set, right like athleticism for days. I've
said this before, but you don't really watch players and
think to yourself that that guy runs.

Speaker 2 (13:30):
A four to two.

Speaker 4 (13:31):
Yeah you did with Harriston, like you watched the college saverers,
Like that guy runs a four to two, Like you
would say you would say, I bet he runs a
four to three.

Speaker 1 (13:39):
Yeah, yeah, I literally I wrote that in my notes.
I was like four to three capable, like and I
wrote that. Then he ran the four two and I
was like, oh that tracks.

Speaker 4 (13:45):
Not surprised, like not even a little bit surprised. So
that that athleticism shows up. And I think the Bills
need to be more willing to be more tighter with
their coverage shells, and Harriston's skill set affords them that opportunity.
You know, I say things on podcasts all the time

(14:09):
when you're playing against the guy like Tyreek Hill, I
will say something like, well, nobody has a corner that
can match steps with him. Hello, Hi, welcome, Welcome Maxwell Harriston.
He can match steps with anybody in the world. And
so the possibilities that exist with him, paired with Christian Benford,

(14:29):
who I think the world of it just really excites me.
And this team was bad at stop in the past
last year. I mean EPA was bottom ten. Third downs
were deplorable. This is your opportunity to change some of that,
and I'm excited to see how it comes together. And
I want Maxwell Harriston to start. I want him to
be awesome. The word that kept coming to mind when

(14:54):
watching him at Kentucky was he hunts. He hunts, man,
this guy hunts the ball, and like, no, oh, he's
not a big like lay the Wood tackler, but he
he was pretty assertive, like in his when he was
not dealing with the shoulder injury of like hey, taking
on and being that run defender and taking you know,
playing off contact. I love the way he played and

(15:15):
so my number one question I need answered is how
how ready is he to go? And how how soon
is this excitement that I have going to be manifested
in the way that he plays on the field across
from Christian Bedford. I'm excited to see where it's at.
And you know, I think they drafted him to start, obviously,
that's what you do with the first round pick. And

(15:37):
you know, Brandon Bean was asked about that possibility and
he said, look, if he's not ready to go, we
like the the veterans that are in place, but he'll
have to earn it. That'll that's true, right, He'll have
to earn it. That's that's true for everyone in Buffalo.
But I want to see I want to see how
ready he is. That's that's the number one thing I
want to answered. I mean obvious stuff like you know,

(15:58):
the injuries and things like that, but like kind of
really lasering it. It's it's how ready is Maxwell Harston.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
I think that's a fair answer. And I you know,
you know so many of the points you brought up,
and I just I find him so intriguing of a
prospect and his fit within this team because to your point,
like they have not had a corner like him and
so many people. I think Tye kind of conflated the
athleticism and speed that he has with what kyer Elam

(16:27):
was coming out of Florida. But kyer Realam was not
the zone competent corner that Maxwell Harston is and Harrison's
ability to play in zone but then use that athleticism
to recover, to trigger, to close down the fluidity in
and out of breaks. And I find that skill set
for you know a lot of the reasons you said

(16:47):
like so intriguing to add to this defense for what
it means for this year, but also just because they
really haven't had that a lot. And then you add
in the tackling piece, which I'm glad you mentioned as well, man,
I had so many people. Yeah, I put together a
compilation of tackles and mistackles from his time at Kentucky,
his you know, previous year and then so two years
well two years ago, and then this past season, and

(17:09):
I presented it without comment. So many people were coming
in being like, oh, you know, putting you know, you're
putting him on blasts or missing tackles, and I never
said any of that. And my thought always with him
and his tackling was his willingness. Willingness to tackle, similar
to kind of blocking. Willingness is such an important piece,
Like if you are a willing blocker and a willing tackler,
that helps tremendously. And then my biggest things were, you know,

(17:33):
the areas that he had to work on as far
as tackling were just little things like angles to the
ball and his or angles to the you know, ball carrier,
his approach, and then some size and frame concerns. But
he's going to play a little thicker and we know
this coaching staff can coach up corners on the run
defense piece, So I was like, those are I can't
teach a guy to have the kind of athleticism and

(17:53):
be able to run a four to two and have
that feel for coverage that he has. But I can
teach a guy you know what, you know, here's how
we want you to come up. Here is how we
want you to be as a forced player. This is
what you need to do when you're kind of finishing,
and then pairing that with let's give you an add
like five or eight pounds something like that. But then
on the other side of that, he's got some really
nice tackles and some really nice sticks on tape and

(18:14):
some forced fumbles and again all of you see the willingness.
He's not shying away from contact, and I thought that
was so important, But it is funny, like the idea
of him on the opposite side of Benford, like Benford
is Benford to me, I don't think he I think
he's an elite run like support player, but I don't
think there's anyone I don't think there's anyone coverage area

(18:37):
or like skill set piece aside from that where I
think he's like elite. I think he's above average at worst,
but I think he's like very good at almost like
everything across the board, Like he's got some size, some frame,
some athleticism, some physicality, you know, some fluidity, some speed.
He can cover a variety of body types. You can
watch him bang with the bigger guys but then also
cover like Brian Thomas Junior and Tyreek Hill. And he

(18:59):
knows he has the foot speed and athleticism for it,
but he also knows how to position his body to
cut him off and do different things. But the type
of corner and what you mentioned, like the type of
corner that he is. And then on the other side,
you just got this juiced up athletic rookie that you're
trying to bring along. I think like that pairing is
also something that I'm extremely excited for because we haven't

(19:20):
seen Even when it was Trey was in there, Tray
was an all pro corner and it was the technical
ability of Trey and then no disrespect, but the safeness
or the responsibility of the other corner whoever corner too was.
This could if Harriston like works out how you envisioned
him as a first round corner, this could be a
very strong corner door for years to come. Considering Benford

(19:42):
is locked up from a contract perspective and Harris is
a rookie like this could just be really exciting.

Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, they're I think they're both locked in for four years, right.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Yeah, so yeah, not including the hair synopsis. Yeah, I
like that. I like that a lot. I No, I
was going to comment on something I have, but I'll
save it for later in the essence of time. All right,
next question that we got anything else on that first one,
any other question that came close, any other thing you

(20:12):
want to put out here or do you want to
move on to our Now.

Speaker 4 (20:14):
I could talk about Dalton Kincaid and Kean Coleman and
if dude, There's so much I could say, But the
number one thing was Maxwell Harrison.

Speaker 2 (20:21):
I'm glad you mentioned the willingness component.

Speaker 4 (20:24):
And and the the player that when you were talking
about that that came to mind was CJ.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
Henderson from Florida. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Man, I have your reconcilable differences with his approach to
tackling like just made business decisions, Like I would hate
if I was his teammate.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
I would, I would, I would hate him. I would.

Speaker 4 (20:41):
That's fair, I would hate him. Uh that's not Maxwell Harrison?

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Right, yeah, no, no, no, no, no no, And I
think that was the biggest misconception, Like having to like
work on your tackling to a degree isn't the same
as like, oh, he doesn't want to tackle. I think
those two things got conflated and that cannot be farther
from the truth. And again when he when when it
works for him, it's nice. Especially for being a smaller dude.
He's got like some detonation capability. You're like, oh, okay,

(21:06):
and then you pair that with the coverage shops. I
like it. I like it all right. Next question, The
biggest concern that you have going into Buffalo Bill's training camp.

Speaker 4 (21:18):
Is man another one that there's a ton of good answers.
I'm thinking about calling it audible, and I'm not going
to do it. I'm stick with my original answer.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
I do that all the time. I do my notes
so that I get into the show, and right at
the last minute, I pivot to like something else, like
I'm taking up. But it's like you're doing a multiple
choice test. You go go with your first answer, don't.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
Cross it out and go to yes.

Speaker 4 (21:41):
Well, the thing that I feel the urgency to talk
about I kind of have queued up for another question.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
We'll stay the course. Well, stay the course fair.

Speaker 4 (21:48):
The biggest concern that I have going into camp is
Cole Bishop's development.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Oh, I have this for and for those playing at home,
I'm trying to be cognizant of Joe's time. Regular view
and watches and listeners of the show know that this
show tends to go very long, so I'm being cognitive
Joe's time. I will keep my answers to the back
end of the show after we say goodbye to Joe.
So if anyone's like, oh, how come you're not giving yours,
I want to put that there. But yes, I have
this for a separate answer.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (22:14):
Go ahead.

Speaker 4 (22:16):
So it's not that I don't like Cole Bishop or
I'm not optimistic about him.

Speaker 2 (22:21):
I am, I really am.

Speaker 4 (22:22):
I think the you know, Sean mcdermot's resume with safeties
is off the charts and we've really never seen him
have this high profile of a of a guy, you know,
a second round pick that they tried to trade up for.
It's this, this resume of safeties is like nobody's that
he turned into something, right, Like, now you got to
somebody that you need to turn into a somebody. And

(22:45):
I think Cole Bishop had a really tough rookie season
with how it started a three way battle with you know,
a veteran in Mike Edwards and Damar Hamlin and himself
and this three way battle and you know they're trying
to get sampling of each guy, and then you get
to camp and like everyone's hurt except for DeMar Hamlin
and so Cole Bishop just missed so much foundational time.

(23:08):
You know, even Brandon Bean has recently said it would
be hard for a rookie at safety to come in
and start for this defense. It's probably even more difficult
when you're not getting the most important reps during during camp.
And so I think that's an important layer because you
know the next thing, you know, this guy starting in
week four out of necessity against the Houston Texans, and

(23:29):
that was rough.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
Man, it was a rough game.

Speaker 4 (23:31):
But I highlight that because I think it does if
you like, if that's your starting point and you see
the end point. I don't think that he became an
impact player at all for the Bills as a rookie,
but he went from a guy that I didn't think
was playable to okay, like the defense can survive with
him on the field. As a rookie, and I think
that's okay. I mean he's played right. It was a
four hundred and seventy something snaps yep, so he got,

(23:54):
you know, got his feet wet, he got you know,
he started the AFC Championship game. This me meaningful, right,
And now the opportunity for him to come into year
two and dude, I remember listening to him last year
during OTAs and he just kind of felt like he
was drinking through a fire hose with like learning the
right Like it just kind of felt that way. And

(24:16):
then McDermott when he was asked a few weeks ago
about you know, Col Bishop in year two and like
what's the most important thing, and he talked about like
mastering the system and allowing it because if he masters
the system, then we could see the true skill set
and then he can learn how to use the system
to kind of cheat right and position himself to make
more plays. And I want to see that happen. And

(24:39):
I think so much about that transition of your last
college season into the All Star circuit in the combine
and team meetings and the.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Next thing you know, you're drafted and you got to play.

Speaker 4 (24:51):
That wasn't Col Bishop's offseason this year, it was the
only thing he cared about was being a safety for
the Buffalo Bills. It wasn't how high he could jump
in a vertical or flying across the country going to
team meetings. It's a very defined focus it should have been,
and so I'm excited to see where that positions him
this year to deliver on the promise of a second

(25:14):
round pick. And for me, I'm just looking for ceiling
for this defense and that's a big reason why I
picked Maxwell Harriston for my number one thing that we
talked about that what I need answered. It's like, I
think this defense has performed really well in the regular season.
I think there's a lot of disappointment for the postseason.

(25:35):
I think there's been some injuries that have been very
unfortunate in some of those elimination games. But ultimately, I
want to see the ceiling of this defense elevated. And
I think that the Bills have done the best that
they can with like cerebral know how guys on defense,
but maybe they had some like physical limitations.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
Yes, with bishop.

Speaker 4 (26:01):
Size and athleticism is there, So now can we get
the system down and like be an impact player? Because
I think that's a piece of this defense that can
elevate compared to where it was last year. And I mean,
obviously the transition from hide and ployer was always going

(26:21):
to be difficult.

Speaker 1 (26:22):
Yeah, and.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
I didn't expect it to be perfect right away. But
now you're kind of you, you're kind of into this,
and Taylor wraps one of the dudes, and I want
to see Cole Bishop come together and you know, be
the player the Bills wrapped me in the second round.
I'm not saying he can or can't do it, but
that's like the concern that I have because I think
that can mean so much for the ceiling of this defense,
which I think needs to be elevated.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
So that's fair. I have this for the next question
that will be answering the safety group. Is my answer
for that question for a lot of the same reasons
you put. And you and I have talked about this
on Locked On. I've talked about it here on the
show a bunch. I I like Rap, and again this

(27:11):
is going off of the idea in the notion that
the safety the likely safety starting safety duo or I
think the one that the Bills want is Taylor Rap
and Cool Bishop, especially with how much Taylor Rap matters
as a communicator on the back there. We've heard the
coaching staff talk about it, you can see it on
the tape, like he has become a significant vocal piece
for them in the secondary or just in the defense

(27:33):
in general, and as part of that brain trust there.
So you're most likely, in an ideal world for the Bills,
you're looking at a safety tandem of Rap and Bishop.
And I like both of those players in a vacuum
more than I do as a tandem, just because of
how their skill sets potentially play off of one another.
And I've talked about like the how I feel like

(27:54):
they kind of not necessarily butt heads. But you know,
Rap doesn't have a has the smarts and the processing
and the eyes to do what you need from a
coverage respective, but he doesn't necessarily have the athleticism or
the rains that you like in single high instances. Bishop
has more of that athleticism in the juice, but doesn't
yet have the processing piece. And I still contend the

(28:16):
further he gets away from the line of scrimmage, and
this doesn't mean he's bad or can't get better. The
further away he gets from the line of scrimmage. In
my evaluation, the worse he gets. I like him in
the box apex player, like Big Nickel type. He might
be off ball, he's blitz in. He give me him
in the hook to curls and the flats as much
as possible, you know, or if he's playing, you know,

(28:39):
if he's a line deeper, give me him as like
a robber or that buzz safety. And so I think
there's questions about how he fits in the Bills defense
in general, Like I thought he would have been great
in like the Patriots defense from the past couple years,
or the Ravens or even the Cardinals. Teams use more
three safety looks or try to confuse you in that regard.
But again that doesn't mean he can't grow into this system.

(29:00):
But between that and then his pairing with Taylor Rap,
where I also feel like Rap is better the closer
he gets to the line of scrimmage because of range issues,
but also doesn't have the athleticism that Bishop has the
man up against tight ends and some running backs, not
to mention. For my money, I think Taylor Rap's best
ability right now is his ability to tackle from depth,

(29:20):
like the way he fills alleys and closes does not. Yes,
And I know so many people of the throat always
all the friendly fire, and he's always hitting his own guys.
I think that is unfortunately overshadowed. How many like sixty
five yard house calls he saved because him filling from
a single high or too high alignment coming up in
sticking dudes, And yeah, it's a gain of ten or

(29:41):
eleven or twelve. But if he doesn't make that sound
tackle he makes, it's a house call. It's you know,
twelve yards and a cloud of dust type of deal.
What do you think of the potential tandem or pairing
of Rap and Bishop? Because you and I also talked
on I don't remember what episode of Lockdown it was.
We also talked about the idea of like, don't be
surprised if Derek Forrest makes some kind of noise with
him his skill set between the mental and the physical.

(30:02):
So where do you stand on kind of you know,
how you think that potential pairing meshes? Do you think
it's ideal?

Speaker 2 (30:09):
You know?

Speaker 1 (30:10):
And granted and you just spoke about that kind of
what Bishop needs to do and where he stands.

Speaker 4 (30:15):
I see the two players very similarly, and I think
to really sum it up as they're just not very
interchangeable players, where where with Ployer and Hyde it's like,
all right, what do you need him to do?

Speaker 2 (30:25):
They can do it.

Speaker 4 (30:26):
It's fine and one it doesn't matter, they can do
it all. And I don't feel the same way about
these players. And even with Bishop at Utah, like if
you were to read my report on him, it's all
best in low alignments, triggering.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Similar with the other him and Vaki, even Thoughvaki's are
running back now, they were both like just to heat
seeking missiles, get them closer to the line and let
them just murt guys.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
And I like this man coverage against tight ends, and
so I was like, Okay, that's what he can give.

Speaker 1 (30:53):
But I so put him in the box and let
him do.

Speaker 4 (30:55):
Yeah, the deeper stuff, it's just like that's just not
where that's just not where he excels. And I agree
that Taylor rep Is also good at the things minus
the man coverage, but his ability to play in deeper
alignments is so much better, even though he's not nearly
the same athletes so exactly, which is why it's.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
Such like it's such a like frustrating, Like you know
what I'm trying to get at here. I don't know
how to vitalize it. But it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yea.

Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yeah, yeah, they're just not they're not very complimentary, they're
not super interchangeable. So and I think that's like most
teams don't have player and hide together like that's a
that's a rare situation. And so I think that's a
benefit that the Bill's had in the past that they
don't have right now. And so what is on the
menu for Cole Bishop this year? And do they ask

(31:45):
him to play in deeper alignments and Kenny like not,
I don't think you want him as your one high guy.
But can he be a deep split zone safety and yeah,
you know, playing deep halves, Like I think that's going
to be important for him to be able to do.
So yeah, I have a lot of the same questions
that you have. But also they had they had Taylor

(32:06):
Rap like kind of in that third safety role. We
got that onboarding gear with Poyer and Hyde and then
they signed them to the three year extension and then
they drafted Cole Bishop, so like they made a choice
that this was like the direction they wanted to see
group to go. So for as much as I sit
here and say I don't think they're super interchangeable, and

(32:27):
I'm not sure they're super complimentary, the Bills completely disagree
with me.

Speaker 2 (32:32):
There be right, be right.

Speaker 1 (32:35):
That's fair. That's a very yeah. That's kind of been
like in the back of my mind as well, even
when it's kind of like, well, you know, like every
time I come to not come around the idea, but
the thought of the crosses my mind of like, you know,
Rap doesn't have a lot of dead cap if they
decided to cut him, it really could be pretty easy.
And then I'm like, they love them, yeah, exactly, like
they love him and everything is kind of been forecasted
towards moving forward with him. So yeah, I just that's

(32:57):
the excellent point, very excellent point. All right, next question
that we will be answering the position group for you, Joe,
that you will be watching the most during Bill's training camp.

Speaker 4 (33:14):
You ever see these, uh these social media posts where
it's like, if I ever say this, then it's a
cry for help.

Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (33:23):
If my answer to this is ever not aline d line,
something wrong, something happened to me, call my wife, you know, check,
do a wellness check on me, please. It's always gonna
be online D line, even if it's even if I
don't have questions.

Speaker 2 (33:36):
That's just where my eyes are.

Speaker 4 (33:38):
I try to My objective at camp is I try
to watch the most competitive thing that's happening on the field,
and that puts me a lot of times with aline
D line. I'm never gonna I'm never gonna watch receiver
corner one on ones over allline.

Speaker 2 (33:53):
D line one ones.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Just it's like the same thing at the at the
Senior Bowl. I always just gravitate towards like the one
on one battles and the trenches.

Speaker 4 (33:59):
I know gonna be Yeah, you tell me how that
route running went new covered Well, I mean, we'll see
the team stuff, but I'm always interested in online D line,
and I think the online I don't. I mean, the
top nine guys are back and there's not a whole
lot of mystery there. But for the D line, I
mean there's a lot of new pieces there with Bosa
and Hoyt and Megan Joby and the three draft picks

(34:22):
trading up for two defensive tackles Dwayne Carter in year two. Yeah,
I want to see that for sure. I want to
see how those guys are moving. I want to see
the combinations that they tinker with. You know, I think
we're gonna see a lot of games and like sim
pressures and you know what combinations do they like together?
You know, when they're sending Terrell Bernard and Matt Molano

(34:43):
on blitzes, like who are they working with, You're gonna
get some really good indicators based on that. So oline
D line is definitely but mostly D line is where
my eyes will be. But maybe this year more than usual,
I probably will want to watch the receivers and corners
because of I mean I talked about Maxwell Harriston. We're

(35:05):
gonna get my next two talking points are gonna be
rooted in some receiver stuff, and I think that's a
really important layer to this team's success in twenty twenty five.
But this D line is is to me, it's been
the inability to get organic pressure on my homes. I mean,

(35:26):
that's the biggest problem going right now. I want to
get a feel for where that's at.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
Very fair, I you know, my my answer, as I
alluded to you know previously, again, I'm gonna talk about
this more in depth, you know, once we send Joe
on his way. But my answer here was the safeties.
But that's in part because I had multiple other answers
here that involve the defensive line.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
So much.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
And I think for me, a lot of it, a
lot of my questions some can be answered in training
camp for the defensive line. A lot of it is.
Unfortunately for me, I feel I'm going to be answered
in season. Like my biggest one is still how do
they mitigate displacement on the interior against the run? Like
do they keep getting knocked backwards and left and right
like they did last year for these big gashes? Like

(36:12):
how do we see that rotation inside? But again, we're
gonna see that more when the bullets are live come
regular season. But we'll get some medicators during training camp.
And then you mentioned that was.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
The nicest way you could have said, what are they
gonna do about their d tackles getting.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Blown off the ball all the time? Man?

Speaker 4 (36:27):
Yeah, how are they gonna mitigate displacement? Come on, man,
let's call it what it is. That's fair.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, they got blown off the ball a lot. And
I still maintain the phrasing I used in season last
year that I'm still using is the best way for
the Bills to stop the run last year was gamescript
to score yes and make teams be like, oh crap,
we're down twenty one. We got to stop running the ball.

(36:55):
If it was close, and teams were able to run
the ball, they weren't in trouble because the only way
they could stop the run see the Rams game for instance,
The only way they could stop the run was to
load the box, gap out and win with numbers, and
then that would put them at a coverage disadvantage in
terms of what they could get to and what they
looked like. And even the Lions game is a good example.
The next week they got so beat up against the

(37:17):
run with the Rams that the next week against the Lions,
the very first play, there's like nine guys in the
box and Cole Bishop makes that tackle because you could
tell they were like, we're not gonna get run on.
It's just not and Detroit was almost kind of like, well,
we're gonna try and run on you. And the Bills
had the numbers advantage, and before you knew it, the
Bills had a ton of points on the board and
the Lions were like, well, we're only gonna be able

(37:37):
to run at fifteen times because we're down a bunch,
let's pass the hell out of the ball. And they
ended up making it close at the end. But between
game script and gapping out, that was the way the
Bills were able to stop the run, and gapping out
at times would present some problems based on the type
of front and interior that they have and being a
one gap penetrating type of front, so on and so forth.
But yeah, I am worried about that, espcially because they

(37:59):
just they leaned into more of what they have already
been instead of getting more run stoppers on the inside.
They were like, Nope, we're leaning into Larryogan Jobi, Nope,
we're leaning into t. J. Sanders. Like they leaned more
into pass, rush and penetration and you know, getting through
your gaps and create and that can work. You can penetrate,
you can slice, you can create, have especially if you're

(38:20):
parent it with stunts and games and all this stuff.
But all the stunts in movement does have a risk
reward nature to it, and at the end of the day,
somebody other than Daikwan Jones is gonna be able to
have to handle a double team and not get displaced
on duo where team's just like we're gonna run duo
and run it down your throat and knock you off
the ball. And not at Oliver for as much as

(38:40):
he's undersized, he'll drop the knee and reduce the service
area and battle against the run. But I don't want
my two hundred and ninety pound defensive tackle to have
to battle against double teams all the time. But guess
what the guys behind him are also in that mold,
just a little bigger. And then your second level is
Matt Malan or Terrel Bernard and Tarren Johnson twenty five
pounds bang, And all of a sudden you get into

(39:01):
a spot where the spine can be compromise and teams
can be like, well what would would We're just gonna
keep running the ball at you because we don't think
you can stop. And then like, okay, well let's put
eight and nine in the box and it's like, all right,
now do you hold up one on one on the outside,
do you get gash to play action? So on and
so forth. I think it could be a potential chain
reaction of negativity. Yeah, so I and again I want

(39:25):
to see what it looks like in camp because the
Bills hole line is good and we know they can
people move in a variety of ways.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
But I.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
And I don't want to use Baltimore as a Week
one example because Baltimore is a unicorn and they run
the ball and everybody.

Speaker 2 (39:37):
Show up with two hundred yards rushing every game.

Speaker 1 (39:39):
Correct, that's it. So I'm not gonna come out of
that game and be like, see there it is. Everything's
on fire.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
I expect in Week one for the Baltimore Ravens to
get one hundred and seventy five plus rushing yards against
the Bills.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
Yeah, that's what Like if I'm the Ravens, like your
game plan should going into that should be like Lamar
passes the ball, I don't know, like twenty one or
twenty two times, Like you should be running the hell out.

Speaker 2 (39:59):
Of the ball.

Speaker 4 (39:59):
I'd like extend the most sincere thank you I can
to to John Harbaugh and what's the OC's named, Pod
Monkin for in that divisional round game.

Speaker 2 (40:10):
To not do that, it was really cool, much appreciated.

Speaker 1 (40:14):
Just like they Brigan did the year before against Kansas City,
where it was like, why aren't you.

Speaker 4 (40:17):
Running the ball because the football, because I think they
want to validate Lamar Jackson in the postseason and let
his arm be the story. And it's ridiculous because because
it's such a comp they have the ability to be
so complimentary with what they do.

Speaker 2 (40:34):
They just they just lose their identity in the postseason.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, you can tell they just outthink themselves like it.
And it's I don't know if it's if it's that
or if it's like, well, we think they're they we
think the defense thinks we're gonna run it, so we're
gonna It's like, no, just lean like Lamar is a
good passer, but the run game should sell your story.
And if they can't stop the run, then like it's
just yeah, I just feel like they can't. I've talked
and talked about a couple of weeks ago. I feel

(40:59):
like the Ravens just can't get out of their own
way in the playoffs, Like they just overthink the hell
out of it. It's just like, just keep it simple,
dance with the girl that brought you, and you're you
in a corn of a run game with your two
tight ends and pat Riccard and Derrick Henry and Lamar
and even like Justice Hill when he's healthy, like all
the things they can do. Yeah, don't deviate from that.

(41:20):
So week one I make I mean, I shouldn't say expecting,
because the Ravens are gonna do whatever the Raven's gonna do.
But yeah, I expect that run game to present a
problem for the Bills. But they present a run they
present a problem for the entire league. It's more of
how we continue going forward, and again especially because they
you know, I should backtrack this a bit, because Tyler
Williams said the Bills told him if he was there

(41:41):
at thirty he would be their pick. The Lions took him,
the Bills took care students said, So maybe they were
opting for more of a run defense flavor on the interior,
but at the end of the day, they just leaned
harder into what they've already done.

Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yeah, that's just such a crazy pivot, you know what
I mean? Exactly how do you go from we're picking
Tyler Williams at thirty two, Yeah, we'll go in TJ.

Speaker 2 (42:02):
Sanders.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
I like, yes, but it's a complete and so my
thought there on night two, because they were I heard
the tyleek Williams thing. My thought when they traded up
even though this person I'm about to say doesn't really
offer a lot from a pass rush upside. I thought
they were gonna go with like Alfred Collins. I was like, Okay,
they want the big body run guy. But even though
TYLERK Williams isn't a pass rushing savant, he's got significantly

(42:27):
more juice and is better in that regard in my
estimation than Alfred Collins. But yet exactly your point, like
you it's Tylank Williams here, and that it's teg and
not that not that either one is bad, but they're
just very much opposites in terms of play style and
body type and skill set, and so how do you
get It was almost like they were like, you know what,
we were gonna make an exception for Tyleek, screw it,

(42:48):
Let's just do what we always do and opt for that.
And again, that can work. But it was it was
such a bigger problem than I think people realized last
year because so many games the game script forced teams
out of that run element. And if that run element stays,
it's a problem. Then you're keeping the ball away from
Josh Allen and that offense and so on and so forth. Yeah,
I'm there with you. Good times, good times. I appreciate

(43:12):
you calling me out for being too soft on that
a displacement piece.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
I'll never forget what you said. You said, how are
they going to mitigate?

Speaker 1 (43:19):
Mitigate? I have said blown off the ball, but I
just that's my easiest way to kind of phrase it
is mitigate displacement, mainly because two I think also, I
think when people here blown off the ball, they think
north and south and you're getting driven back. And granted
that what happened to Bills, but it was also like
gap to gap horizontally, so displacement I just treated as

(43:40):
this way and that way, but fair. I appreciate you.
Next next question, we got the most under the radar
storyline you've got for the Buffalo Bills heading into training camp.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (43:55):
I don't think this should be under the radar, but
I think it's become under the radar.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
It's Josh Palmer, Oh, good answer. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:01):
So my hardest thing for answering this one was what
I think is to under the radar based on rumblings
and thoughts I hear and I see, Yeah, good call.

Speaker 4 (44:10):
It's like the flavor right now is Elijah Moore at receivers,
and people are talking about Dalton can Kat and Keon Coleman.
It's like Josh Palmer was a priority early free agency
signing with a very specific skill set that this team needed.
The Bills face the highest percentage of man coverage in

(44:31):
the NFL, which if Josh Allen's your quarterback, that should
be very surprising to you, right and to me, that
is a direct statement from the NFL saying we don't
think your outside receivers are very good. We don't think
they can beat man coverage. And Josh Palmer was your
most significant move to become better at beating man coverage.

(44:57):
And so much of what this bill, what I believe
this off Bills offense wants to be, is predicated on
having players on the perimeter, receivers on the perimeter that
can do enough to open up the middle of the
field where your best pass catchers operate in Kalosha here,
in Dalton Kincaid, and so the development of Keon Coleman

(45:21):
and the onboarding of Josh Palmer is your ticket to
better separation on the perimeter. I mean, metrically, Josh Palmer
is one of the best separators in the league against
man coverage, and the tape bears that out as well,
and so it's it's how he onboards here and what
that means not only to have an individual piece for

(45:45):
Josh Allen to throw the football to that I think
has a pretty good all around skill set, but what
that means for the rest of the spacing of this
passing offense to kind of take away some congestion from
the middle of the field, because if you want to
attack the middle of field, like that's the highest epa
place to attack a defense, it's where the best things happen.
When other teams are playing the highest percentage of one

(46:07):
high middle of the field close coverage, you can't attack
that area like you want to. You need some more
respect on the outside. Josh Palmer's your ticket to get
in there. And I think it's an underrated storyline, not
only for the reasons I outline, but because I feel
like it's such a forgotten part of this offseason narrative

(46:27):
and I don't think it should be.

Speaker 1 (46:29):
I'm in lockstep with you. I think this is kind
of like, yeah, like I guess under the radar would
fit it, but like a sneaky, big one you know,
I remember talking a lot last year when they lost
the backback games to the Ravens and the Texans. Both
of those teams came out and said, hey, we've got
athletic and or good corners. We don't think you can

(46:51):
beat them. So we're gonna play single high and we're
gonna make you throw the ball, and we don't think
you can to those guys. And it created a significant
problem for the Bills. The Bills offense really it opened
up a bit with Amari Cooper, but they were kind
of capped from like if the ball's in the middle
of the field, they were kind of capped from like
the numbers and then to about like fifteen yards, like

(47:11):
they could not operate in that space and throw the
ball and get things out. Even their instructure passing team
for a lot of the year struggled and a lot
of their best passes came from off script chunk plays
created by Allen and you know his connection with different guys.
I think the Palmer piece, it's such a good call
from you because this for his you know, and you've
talked about it. You and I have talked about together,

(47:33):
like for as much as Josh Allen's the MVP. The
identity of this team is running the football on the
offensive side of the ball. But if you can't win
on the outside in some fashion, teams are gonna be like,
you know what, you know, which is crazy to say
what I'm about to say. Teams are gonna say, you
know what, We're just gonna load the box and not
let you run the ball and see if you got
guys in the outside who can beat us. And if

(47:54):
you don't, then you run into a scenario where now
the run game starts to get muddied a little bit,
and you gout you have guys who can't win out there,
and everything just gets congested and tight in a not
fun way and creates a negative domino effect for the
rest of this offense. And then again, things breathed a
little bit and were alleviated a bit when they got Cooper.

(48:17):
But they need somebody who can consistently win outside, especially
from like the man coverage perspective and the underneath and intermediate.
It's got to be somebody that has kind of again
like Palmer good release package, can win underneath, can win
in that intermediate. Like I am very confident, I think
I know what some of the metrics say for him deep,
I think some of his verticality has gotten a bit

(48:37):
overblown by the metrics. But when he does win vertical,
and again he's not slow, But when he does win vertical,
it's because he's a good route runner. He operates with
good deception and good pacing and body language. But I
am just very confident in him being able to separate
from zero to like thirteen yards and a variety of
routes in the route tree. And I think that's so
important because if teams try to stack that box and hey,

(49:00):
we're playing cover one or even if it's Cover three,
and essentially President presents like man coverage on the outside
against in single receivers sets with you know, guys in
their deep third, Palmer presents a guy that defense might
have to be like, uh yeah, but Palmer can kind
of cook our guy a little bit in this area.
And you know, we can't really load the box against this.
You might be able to just have that pass tag

(49:21):
and Palmer's that guy available in a variety of ways.
I think that's a that's a good call because the
one way to stop this Bill's offense for me is
load the box stop the run, and again it's it's
crazy as it to sound as it sounds, forced Josh
Allen to throw the ball forty or something times a
game because I don't think this offense is built to
live in that world with the weapons that they have,

(49:42):
and how they built this offense and tied into that
is the pass catchers and the receivers in the room
they've created.

Speaker 4 (49:49):
Yeah, I think it comes down to like last year's
team was optimized, like they the Bills did such a
good job of knowing how to optimize game script for
what their roster.

Speaker 2 (50:02):
Is and is not did a phenomenal job.

Speaker 4 (50:05):
Like it's not what the Bills roster was not as
good as it was the year before the or what
I think it can be this year. And I think
Josh Allen had to be the greatest quarterback in NFL
history of taking care of the football right, lowest percentage
of plays that resulted in a interception, fumble, or sack.
The defense needed to lead the league in takeaways last

(50:28):
year based on the construction and kind of what was missing.
Their undermanned a bit on on on defense and so
they it figured out their their formula. They're winning formula.
I think it has the potential to be a.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
More complete, more.

Speaker 4 (50:45):
Variety, more options, more on the table for how they
can how they can win games this year, which is good.
I think it increases your marchin for air. But I
think that's kind of the silver lining. The hat tip,
if you will, to the twenty four Bills is I
don't I don't know that they were or an elite team,
but they knew how to maximize their possibilities to win.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Games, absolutely, and they saw the most man coverage last
year and the most single high coverage last year, and
I think a lot of that is a testament to
teams not being scared of what they had on the outside,
but also the respect for the run game and trying
to put numbers in there. And you're definitely going that.
You know, it's up for debate right now how much
teams fear the Bills receiving core because we haven't seen
this core, you know, in this offense together yet with

(51:28):
live bullets, but we know teams are going to respect
the hell out of that run and so we're going
to see a lot of those same coverage structures and
if they got a guy on the outside or multiple
who can win. How the hell do you stop this
Bill's offense with their ability to run the football, have
Josh Allen and then throw the football and have viable
weapons on the outside, and yeah, that's a really scary piece.

(51:48):
I also think Josh Allen needs to be better throwing
the deep ball. He's been poor the last two years
and has left a lot on the table. I think
that's a big piece too, not only winning on the
outside and having guys that can be beat man, but
guys think that can succeed vertically and make you pay
and be able to take some shots and hit more
of those shots that are going to be prevalent and
available because teams want to think, you know, want to
stop your run game. Last question that we got, who slash?

(52:15):
What are you most eager to see during Bill's training camp.

Speaker 4 (52:20):
I've done well to not double dip with any of
my answers. I'm going to break the streak right now
because i want to give you one thing that's it's
a little tongue in cheek but it's not really I
think it's important, And then kind of like my real answer,
my tongue in cheek but not really comment is going
to be who gets the punt return opportunities. Okay, I

(52:41):
think that is a I'm a big you know, I
love projecting rosters and all that. But the piece of
the puzzle that I struggle with the most right now
is who is the punt returner? And I know that
you would say it's mons Bradon Codrington. He was the
punt returner last year, and to which I would say, yeah,
you did a good job.

Speaker 1 (52:57):
I was.

Speaker 4 (52:58):
I thought it was a great trade and I was
very rest of him. I just don't know that he
brings enough value to this roster.

Speaker 1 (53:03):
Can you burn a roster spot just for a punt
returnal on the guy and for him, yep, great call.

Speaker 4 (53:08):
Can't play corner, can't play a lick a corner, and
he doesn't play any other special teams. It's not like
he's covering kicks and punts, So very very very limited
overall profile. And this this secondary situation is very difficult,
like to if they're going to roster ten or eleven,
to get it down to ten or eleven, if Brandon

(53:29):
Codrington is one of those players, you're really you're gonna
have to like, you're probably not gonna roster Dorian Strong
or JaMarcus Ingram.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
I think that's the consequence there, and I wouldn't want
that to happen.

Speaker 1 (53:38):
No, And those are both, like I know that we're
talking bottom of the depth chart kind of guys. Those
are both quality football players. I like what Jamark grant.
We haven't seen Strong in the NFL yet, but his
pedigree and his experience at Virginia Tech and his skill
set and traits I think projects well. And Ingram has
inside outside versatility. He showed some ability to ball a
little bit when used in those dining packages earlier in
the year with the injuries to Charon Johnson.

Speaker 4 (53:59):
And I think JaMarcus was the Bill's best special teams
player last year for sure, in my opinion, covering kicks
and punts. And so the challenge that I have here
is I look at this receiver corps and I think
most people would say they're going to roster five and
those players are Coleman, Shakir Palmer, Moore, and Samuel problem
with that compilation of five receivers is none of them

(54:21):
help you on special teams. So can Elijah Moore be
the punt returner? I know he's only had two punt
returns in the NFL, but he had seventy eight in college.
That does include fair catches, and so he doesn't have
that many returns because that that many fielded punts. So
he did very well in terms of taking care of
the football. I think that's important. I think the Bills

(54:41):
need to find some special teams contributions from receivers, and
I think that's the way to do it. And then
that gets the piece of that's important, is that gets
Condrington off your roster, and that does make room for
an Ingram, Dane Jackson, Adrian Strong, who you do think
can't help you cover kicks and punts, which is an
important part of this roster puzzle. If it's not Elijah

(55:01):
Moore or Brandon Codrington, then who is it. Shakir he
was in the postseason last year. Yeah, you know, is
that part of what.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
I like it? I like him, you know, anytime I
can get the ball in Khaluls Shakir's hands more, I'm
a fan of it. But also I think he's going
to be important to the act, no disrespect to special teams.
I think he's going to be important to the actual
function of the regular art.

Speaker 4 (55:23):
I agree, But he's not a high volume snack. He
doesn't play in twelve personnel. Yeah, so like, so, is
is that how you kind of like make up some
missing contributions.

Speaker 1 (55:31):
Yeah, get him some extra touches.

Speaker 4 (55:34):
Ms taber Or, the Bill's new Special Teams coordinator. He
said he's never had so many.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
Returns. Who are they? Yeah? Right? Who are these people?

Speaker 4 (55:45):
But I well, I mean we're gonna find out real
soon here. But I'm eager. I'm eager. Right, that's the question.
What are you eager to see him? Who are these
returners and who realistically can do this? And can Codrington
get bumped off this roster? I think that'd be That's
I don't not like Brandon Codrington. I just feel like
he doesn't bring enough value to roster him based on
the competition that exists across this team.

Speaker 2 (56:05):
So that was my sort of answer. It really is
my answer.

Speaker 4 (56:09):
But the other thing that I want to want it
to bring up here is like, and shout out to us,
we haven't talked about James Cook yet, and I'm gonna
kind of do that right now. But it's really not
so much the contract piece or if he's going to
hold in or whatever, but the Bills have navigated all
but three days of this offseason without James Cook, right,
He's not been around. So that's put Ray Davis and

(56:31):
Ty Johnson in elevated roles, and the Bills rushing offense,
especially last year, was optimized for James Cook, which is
it should be. It should be the way that they
pull their tackles, the way that they set up mid
zone and cut back zone, and how they will attack

(56:52):
the edges. Like it's it's very much what does James
Cook do well and how do we optimize that? And
that's what any good team should do. Yeah, it flies
in the face of what is optimized for Ray Davis,
very very very very different runners. How is this what
clues do we get during camp for how this run

(57:14):
scheme is optimized? Does it give us some indicators about
how much more they want Ray Davis to play and
maybe less James Cook or if will will we see
enough where it's like go ahead and trade them, you know,
Like I just I want to see what new layers
because I mean, I don't have any numbers on this.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
Maybe you do, but.

Speaker 4 (57:37):
I don't think they played I don't think they ran
as much dart last year as they did the year
before the tackle rap play.

Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, no, I mean I don't have the hard numbers
on it, but no, last year was a was a
lot of mid zone, a lot like I think mid
zone eight into all the tackle poles stuff. Yeah, and
do I mean duo has been a healthy one for
the past couple of years. But yeah, absolutely mid zone
overtook the tackle pulse both in terms of dart and
tackle long trap. Both of those went down.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
How so, what's coming?

Speaker 4 (58:07):
Chromer has got a huge role in the run scheme?
What's what's what's he been thinking about for the last
six months? You know, I want to find out and
we're gonna get some. I'm eager to I'm eager to
find out, so run scheme optimization and what clues that
gives us about the direction of the backfield.

Speaker 2 (58:22):
And then who the heck are these punt returns? Man?

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Oh, I like those. I like those ones to watch for.
And I even thow the that the kick return piece
I think is interesting, although I mean, I don't know
they changed the rules, but it's still a ton of
a ton of touchbacks still. So I feel like it
almost like you can put like any you can put
Alec Anderson back.

Speaker 4 (58:39):
You heard Chris Taper said he's expecting I think the
Bills had thirty six kick returns last year. He said
he was thinking like north to seventy five. It's a
huge pump.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Wow, I did not hear that.

Speaker 4 (58:47):
That is a he said it out loud. Yeah, he
said it out loud. He said that the touchback is
it now the thirty or whatever it is? Thirty five?

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Different, they think that they think they're gonna get more returns.
Oh I forgot that. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (58:58):
Yeah, and that's the that's kick return, which is not
the same as punt return.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
No, yeah, I'm not not at all. They're much different world.
That's a person who returned kicks him punts. They're surprisingly different.
Oh yeah, I good call. That's a sneaky one. That
could have been also under the radar too.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
I'll be dialed in on that.

Speaker 4 (59:15):
And now that you're aware of that, and you're gonna
be probably the camp a little bit before me, I'm
gonna need this information from you.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Yeah. I was gonna say, it's just like lock now
would be instead of like compile on stuff. I need
to see like who especially too, because normally it's like Okay,
they have like three to four five or five guys
at most like return panwen of like, do they have
a whole cavalcaded dudes back there just like for punt
options or who really kind of separates? Yeah, that's I
forgot who I was talking about this with earlier this offseason.

(59:43):
But yeah, I said the same thing, like I don't
no respect to Brandon Codrington, but and I don't mean
this verbage to be that harsh, but I don't want
to burn a spot on him as a returner if
that means I lose DeMarcus Ingram, or I lose Dorrian
Strong or you know, one one of the other safeties,
or if Jordan Hancock plays well like that type of
versatility that he has as a safety and nick or

(01:00:04):
even like Cam Lewis, if he's somehow like on the chot,
like I don't. I don't want to lose any of
those potential guys who play actual snaps on defense and
offer some positional flex between the roles that they could
play defensively and then special teams. It's tough for me
to burn that on a silo punt return only essentially
guy maybe kicking turn Pece but yeah, knowing that he

(01:00:26):
doesn't really offer anything else, that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (01:00:29):
Let me know who those gunners are. Who's getting those
first gunner reps? Too?

Speaker 1 (01:00:32):
I show I figured, what was it last year? You
asked me ante, Oh, I think last year was the
offensive line rotations? Yeah, for the second team.

Speaker 4 (01:00:38):
They asked me, I want to see how much great
I want to see how much Grable gets that guard
this year too.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
I'm very I was, this is fuddy, you can't keep
them all afety. They're not Pokemon. Uh yeah, I Grabel. Oh,
I forgot this also too. I was talking about this
with someone else and they were like, oh, you know,
Grabile was probably an easy cut candidate. I was like, easy,
I know. I was like, he played so well in
the preseason.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
I thought I was watching dude.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
I was saying, I was not ready for grey Able
to pull out that snatch the preseason and shopping dudes.

Speaker 4 (01:01:08):
Down, and I was like, oh, look, I got real
excited about Pyland grab especially like when you contrast the
player I watch it, I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
I was like, Okay, here's the dude with some athleticism
and length. Will see what he can be. And then
I'm like, look at the technique throughout each preseason. He
he significantly improved preseason one to two to three, and
by preseason week three, I was like, he won the
swing tackle job.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
He did it.

Speaker 1 (01:01:32):
He's very real.

Speaker 4 (01:01:34):
I think he's very real as a possible successor to
David Edwards that left guard. Very Yeah, the exact same, exact,
same measurables, exact same, And.

Speaker 1 (01:01:44):
David Edwards is a UFA next season? Interesting? Yeah, I
am a sneaky not sneaky concern. But with McGovern and Edwards, like,
are we talking about both of them being in a
Bill's uniform next year or is it a SVPG time
in Tyler Grable or is it Alec Anderson moving into
you know one of those spots, Like what does that

(01:02:08):
look like? That's a not unnecessarily camp. That's one of
like my underlying things for this season and going into next.
I'm very much a if it's not broken, don't fix it.
And this offensive line is very much not broken, So
I don't want anything to change.

Speaker 4 (01:02:20):
But I hear you, but I mean, what, let's be realistic.
McGovern's going to be north of fourteen million a season. Oh,
Cyrus Torrance? What who is this some guard just got
paid a stupid amount of money?

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
Who was it? Trey Smith? Oh yeah, the crazy big money.

Speaker 1 (01:02:34):
Yeah, the most ever.

Speaker 4 (01:02:35):
Yet, right like Osirius Torrance is potentially going to be
like north of fifteen million dollars a year.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
Yeah, even if he's I was even thinking two of
who the Panthers paid last offseason and Stoke, Yes, thank.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
You twenty million dollars a year guard.

Speaker 1 (01:02:50):
The guard market has becomeing like the tackle market year
or ago, and every people are just paying into your
offensive lineman left and right.

Speaker 4 (01:02:56):
And David Edwards is I mean he's a serviceable starting
guard in the league. That's like seven eight million dollars
a year. Yeah, this interior three, it might it's probably
the last year of it. Oh, I don't think. I
don't think you can keep all three. I don't think
you can do no.

Speaker 1 (01:03:12):
Yeah, I think if you keep Edwards in McGovern, that
means towards Torrance is likely gone. And then I think
if you lose McGovern and Edwards you're likely keeping Torrance.
Just what because even if Torrance continues to improve, but
his size and what he can do from a people
moving standpoint, where the league is headed turned towards the
type of schemes and philosophy on the offensive side of
the ball. A lot of teams are gonna see him

(01:03:32):
and just want to mash the hell out of teams.
I can see somebody paying him a good chunk.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
I think you look at four players, it's Connory Govern,
Osyrus Torrance, James Cook, who I think are all looking
for fifteen million dollars a year or more, and then
David Edwards, and I think he can only keep two.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
That's fair. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
The easiest one to say is well, I really like
whether it's Alec Anderson or said Van Praying Grainger or
Tylan Grabile, it's like, oh okay, we got an answer
left guard, and now you get to pick one of
you get to pick two of McGovern, Torrance and Cook.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
Yeah, and then you know, well, I think it also
helps to in this if somebody said it in the
comments there music Blogger, I have to say Chrome Chromer
maybe the best offensive line coach of the NFL. So
much of it that gives me like that reduces my
trepidation here as being like, well, you know what, there's
so many people say now like in Chromer, we trust me,
Like with him getting guys ready and coached up, and
we go from there.

Speaker 4 (01:04:29):
Let's just hope Aaron Kromer wants to coach the Bill's
offensive line forever.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
I was gonna say, I give me I need a
Dante Scarneki, a type of scenario where he's just there
for for an hour and doesn't go somewhere else.

Speaker 2 (01:04:40):
I don't know if that's what he's gonna do or not.

Speaker 1 (01:04:42):
So it's also scary. Yeah, also scary. The day's coming,
I know, uh, terrify and terrifying I am. So we
talked offline a little bit, and then we talked for
about fifteen minutes about blueberries and the movie Casino, Miss
Rachel and some farm stuff. We got a bit off track,

(01:05:03):
and even with all of that, we've only been show
running as of right now, for right now an hour
and four minutes. I came very close to getting you
out right on time like I wanted to. So I'm
very proud.

Speaker 2 (01:05:15):
It's on me, dude, you don't have to wear that.
That's on me. I brought up. I brought up the
blueberry thing, which that one.

Speaker 1 (01:05:20):
I love that conversation part. That was tremendous too. I
have no problem of keeping you forever. We could go
until midnight. I don't care at all. I care for you,
I don't care for myself. I would selfishly keep you
here for forever. But I want to be cognitive of
your time. So I am proud that we got you close.
For those still watching, I'm going to keep trudging on
the questions that Joe answered, I'm gonna give mine and
some details and some stat pieces that I saved. I

(01:05:43):
wanted to make sure we got Joe out on time,
just in case people don't know, Joe, who you are
and where they can find you, what you do and
all that stuff. The flow, the flow is yours. Well
technically the flow and the floor can be yours right now. Wow,
But yeah, there you go. The mic is yours, the
floor is yours, the flow is yours. Tell every buddy
and everybody who you are, what you do, where they
can find you, and all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:06:04):
I thought you're gonna start rapping there, dude, dropping bars,
you know, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:06:08):
Don't even know it, but I can show it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
Was that in your back pocket? Or did you just
do that?

Speaker 1 (01:06:14):
No? That that's a phrase from like It that I've
known for like fifteen years. I don't remember where it's from, but.

Speaker 4 (01:06:18):
That's a pop I'm a pop culture. I'm watching Miss Rachel.
I already told you I watch football and Miss Rachel.

Speaker 2 (01:06:23):
That's Miss Rachel.

Speaker 1 (01:06:24):
If it's not on Miss Rachel or the NFL or
college football.

Speaker 2 (01:06:27):
I don't know what's going on. I don't have a clue.
Not a clue.

Speaker 4 (01:06:31):
Joe Marino, host of Lockdown Pills, I think that's the
most important thing for you to know. At the Joe
Marino on X A lot of content all the time,
and appreciate you have me on. Appreciate uh, you know,
cover one and everything that you guys do over here.
It's been a good relationship and enjoying your content and
excited to follow a long this season.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
Thank you for joining me again. It was uh, it
was awesome to have you on this episode again. Like
I mentioned in the intro and I mentioned on Twitter,
I had you on for this episode last year at
this time. So I like this kind of mini tradition
we've created an addition to you know, I have you
on this show throughout the entirety of the year at
different points, and you have me on Lockdown. So I
appreciate the working relationship that we have and you as

(01:07:13):
a person and you as a football analyst and everything
that you do. And again, I know how precious and
valuable your time is with all that you do both
on and off the field. So I appreciate you taking
the time to join me tonight. And yeah, you crushed it.
Thank you so much. I appreciate the hell out of you.

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
Thanks, brother, appreciate you. Go Bills, Go Bills.

Speaker 1 (01:07:29):
Have a good night, mister Joe Marino, tremendous guest. Before
I get into my answers, I want to go back
and grab that super chat from Jason. Jason. Thank you. Wow,
this is a big one. It almost covered my entire
the entire face. One, Jason, thank you very much for
being here. Two, thank you so much for the super chat.

(01:07:52):
Three let's get to this actual super chat. Jason says,
do you think there truly is a way to attack
an offense besides through the defensive line. It feels like
McDermott wants solid, slash, smart play everywhere, but is realizing
he might need to be a little more quote unquote
wild on the defensive line. For lack of a better word,

(01:08:14):
I think I think for this question I think so
much of it is kind of tied to the old
debate that a lot of people have had, like coverage
or pass rush or like coverage your defensive line, Like
how do you build your defense? And I don't think
there's necessarily a right answer. You know, you can have
a solid D line and it affords you luxuries on
the back end. You can have a very solid back
end and that affords you different pieces on the D line.

(01:08:36):
What I think is most important about your question here, Jason,
and this is tied into some of the points actually
that I have that we're gonna speak about in a bit.
I do think my biggest issue with the Bills defense
over the years is Sean McDermott. And you alluded to
it here saying like it feels like, you know, he
needs to be a little more wild on the defensive line.
Sean McDermott's defense since he was in Carolina has very

(01:08:59):
much just been relying on the front four to win
as rushers and win against the run, and that allowing
the back seven to play coverage so that way you
always have the numbers advantage in coverage and you can
do a variety of things. The issue with that is,
you need to have horses up front to play that
kind of football, and the Bills just unfortunately have not

(01:09:21):
had that level of horse across their defensive line. If
you look at the defensive lines that McDermott had in Carolina,
I mean, they had some of the best players at
their positions on those defensive lines. And then even you know,
juxtapposing it with a team like the Eagles this past year,
and everybody's going to try and replicate that their defensive
line was like seven eight guys deep, like quality guys

(01:09:41):
on their defensive line. It's hard to just win with
your front four if you don't have studs you need,
because if you don't have studs, then you need to
have like six or seven guys that are all like
a B to a B plus. And that's hard in
and of itself, let alone not having studs or even
getting them. So I do think when if you know,
kind of being more wild this year, I do think

(01:10:04):
they need more, you know, mixing in some more odd fronts,
some more you know, run stunts, pass stunts, some games upfront,
more five man pressures, more simulated, more creepers. I think
you need more manufactured attacks. And games upfront. Now, the
issue with that is it is I mentioned in a
little earlier with Joe it it's a bit of a

(01:10:25):
risk reward if you call the wrong stunt at the
wrong time, all of a sudden, you know there's alleys
to run through between you know, your garden center or
the garden tackle or whatever. So you know there air
is a risk reward element to it. But I do
think they just have to play more games and a
more variety's a bit more varied attack, I should say.

(01:10:46):
And this is all part two. This is kind of
my own personal philosophy. Like my the defenses I really
gravitate towards are are more odd front type of defenses
that have more hybrid type of players. Like I think
it's fine to have a traditional four down, you know,
defensive line and static type of front, but I like
having defenses where you know, it's three down, but it's

(01:11:06):
kind of four down, and you've got a guy in
the edge who can drop into coverage and who could
also rush a little bit, and you've got this mix
of body types and skill sets which allow you to
play a mix of fronts, which then tie into the
kind of mystery of how you can attack where you
can attack, and vary it based on matchup and based
on opponent. But this is a really great question and

(01:11:27):
I really appreciate the super chat. That was great. Oh
and you got some follow up Jason. You said it
feels like McDermott has always wanted solid, solid, solid, and
that wins you a ton of games, but it hasn't
been enough when we needed people in positions to be
free enough to just make a play. I also think
that's true, Like they've had guys that have again been solid.
I think they've lacked the high end talent, and that's
part of what I alluded to with like not having

(01:11:47):
the horses up front. They haven't had like bucket getters
up front, dudes where you just want to clear everything out,
play io ball and let somebody win one on one.
Von Miller was supposed to be that guy, and he
was until he got hurt. Ed Oliver is that guy
at times, but not always. Sometimes it happens a lot,
sometimes it happens a little bit. Sometimes it doesn't happen
at all. And I think that's been their biggest thing.

(01:12:09):
Like they've built this team out of having a strong
front four, and they haven't had a strong enough front
four and so then you have to combat that schematically,
and it's been a bit rocky. Jason, you also said,
but it seems like his approach is to do it
to the D line. Absolutely. Uh. I think McDermott and
Bean have both talked about and used various phrases in

(01:12:31):
terms of like build the defense through the defensive line out.
The defensive line is the engine. When Eric and I
had Dean Marlow on the film room a couple of
years ago, he said the same thing, like McDermott believes
in building the defense from the defensive line out the defense.
The defensive line is the engine. They both believe that
it starts up front, which again is what makes it

(01:12:52):
so frustrating that they don't have horses up front that
you can continuously rely on, because they do believe that
the defense starts from the defensive line and builds out
from there. The defensive line is the engine, whatever verbiage
you want to use, But it still feels like year
after year we're like, man, they really need help a
defensive tackle, Man, they really need help at edge. It
it's a larger frustration point. Yeah, it's tough. Tough, tough, tough, tough, tough.

(01:13:16):
And this is also a good point for Connor, who says,
but what can a defensive line do when the other
team is getting the ball out under two seconds and
the secondary looks lethargy and gets cut up on crossing routes.
That's where we get into the marriage of coverage and
pass rush. That's where it comes to playing more man
coverage on the back end, restricting passing windows, playing more
press and or playing more press jam to disrupt timing,

(01:13:37):
get in the kitchen of guys and throw off again.
That's spatial that's spatial awareness, the spatial breatheability that receivers
or pass catching options have. Yeah, that starts to stack
and it's a much larger schematic conversation that we've talked
about a bit on the show throughout this offseame.

Speaker 2 (01:13:53):
That's a very good point.

Speaker 1 (01:13:54):
I appreciate you, Jason, of course. Yeah, of course. Anytime,
I mean one, anytime someone throws a super chat up,
I'm always gonna respond anytime, and especially you know you're
you're here all the time watching. I appreciate the hell
out of you being a consistent supporter of mine and
the show, So yeah, anytime. I appreciate you very much
for being here and for the super chat. And that
was a good question, so thank you very much for that.

(01:14:14):
So a couple of pieces again, I just want to
answer some of these questions. I didn't want to make
this show solely on Joe and I'm just asking him
stuff and then I'm like, all right, everyone, good night.
So I want to give a couple of my answers here.
You know, my answer for the question that I need
answer the most coming out of training camp. Again, I
think a lot of this answer will The biggest one

(01:14:34):
for me is the run defense piece that I talked
about a bit with Joe, but I don't think that'll
be answered until we're in season. So the biggest question
that I need the answer the most coming out of
training camp is, you know, can Joey Bosa be edge one?
And I asked that from the perspective of, you know,
the Bills needing a a guy off the edge who
can get them a bucket as a pass rush, who

(01:14:54):
can win one on one, who is a consistent threat
and a problem up front, because if Joey Bosa can't
be the edge one as a pass rusher who can
tied into this a bit is what kind of jump
Greg Russo makes and what he looks like as a
pass rusher. There is a chance that if Joey Bosa
is healthy, and if Greg Russo makes another jump like

(01:15:16):
he has every year he's been in the league, the
Bills could have two edge ones against the past. They
could have Joey Bosa and Greg Russo both be a
terror off the edge. There's also a chance that if
Joey Bosa is hurt and Greg Russo doesn't make another
jump as a pass rusher, the Bills could have no
edge one from a pass rush perspective, and they would
have to cobble it together in the aggregate like they

(01:15:38):
have in previous years. That is a very worrisome thing
for me. That is a very scary thing for me.
I've talked about it a bunch. I think as much
as I love Rousseau, I think he's more of a
batman than he is a Robin as a pass rusher
right now. And the best chance to get yourself a
batman is for Joey Bosa to be healthy. If not,

(01:16:00):
your best chance is Greg Russo taking a jump and
going from Robin to Batman. If not, I don't think
you're gonna have a Batman, and then you have to
have a bunch of Robbins and night Wings and stuff
like that. And that's a whole other conversation. Can a
Javanessa be that? Can Landon Jackson be that? Can Javon
Solomon can be that? Can Kent? Or can Javon Solomon
be that? Can Michael Hoyt be that? Do they want
to keep him at edge?

Speaker 2 (01:16:20):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:16:20):
How much does he even factor into the true edge
grouping or do they use him in that spinner roll?
Which is another point I'm gonna bring up here. So
that's a big one for me, and I think that
is when we can get answered coming out of camp.
Like we can watch one on ones in the trench
work and see one if Bosa is even practicing two
If he is, how much is he causing problems for
the guys that he are blocking him, especially considering he's

(01:16:42):
gonna have time going up against two real the good
tackles and Dion Dawkins and Spencer Brown, and so it's
kind of you know, metal on metal, good on good,
and we're gonna be able to see, you know, kind
of what we get from that. So again, the top
one for me here is the run defense. I think
that's gonna be answered more in season. So for the answer,
the question I need to answer the most coming out
of camp is you know, essentially Ken Joey Bosa b

(01:17:04):
edge one and if not, can Greg Russo be that?
And I don't mean edge one like all the top
guy in the depth tron. I mean a true edge
one as a pass rusher, like a guy I think
at Groot is an edge one against the run all
day every day. Is one of the best run defenders
in all of football, not just edges or defensive lineman.
One of the best run defenders in all the football.
I don't think he's there yet as a pass rusher,

(01:17:26):
there's a chance he Ken be Again, He's made jumps
every single year and that's why if he makes that
jump and Bosa stays healthy, you could have two horses
coming off the edge. And that's extremely, extremely exciting. Kay
Morris is our best chance of training for Trey Hendrickson.
I like that. I like that Paul says what nose
tackle targets might the Bills have? I got or zero tech?

(01:17:46):
I gotta be honest, I don't think really anybody. I
think they want more inside rush penetration guys. I think
Tyler Williams was either a unicorn or a kind of
flash in the pan. I think they're opting for more
inside rush and more penetration. I don't really think they
have nose tackle targets. Maybe if the line falls apart
and they realize we got to pivot. But yeah, I

(01:18:07):
sadly I don't think they have any I think they
are again, this could work. I think they're content with
just one gapping, penetrating upfield type of guys that skew
more towards pass rush than they do you know, plugging
and displacement mitigation. As I said earlier, Kate Moore said,
the question is punter r This says, my biggest question
is the defensive line in the wide receiver room. Both
have a ton of new guys and both are unproven. Yeah,

(01:18:29):
Micah says, Bosa stays hurt. We will be lucky to
get ten games out of them. Yeah, I don't necessarily disagree.
Claude says, if Joey Bosa's edge one from January to February,
I'm happy. Hell Yeah, all Paul says, I gotta go go, Bills.
Thanks for the show. Enjoy and night, Paul. I appreciate
you stopping. And James says, do you think Jackson is
a rookie with a high motor makes a difference. I
think he'll need to because Bosa is going to get

(01:18:52):
hurt a bunch and Michael Hoyt is out for the
first six games, so I think he's going to have
to make a difference. I'm still not sold on him
because he's high cut and his play style. I think
I think he can be a fine rotational guy. I
don't think he's ever going to be a high end player,
but I think he can be a fine like Edge three,
maybe Edge two. I think they're going to need him
to make a difference, and I think he'll be fine

(01:19:13):
again in a rotational role, run stopping kind of guy play,
violent play through guys, and kind of set a you know,
a physical tone and edge on the outside. We'll see
what we get from a pastor's perspective and just how
much you know him being high cut and not being
very flexible and mobile from his lower in his lower body,
how much that hinders him. So we'll seem all right.

(01:19:35):
Let us see the next one. I have biggest concern
I have going into camp. There's a variety of answers
I could add for this one. I like Joe's as well.
I'm gonna go with one that I think is being
kind of This also could have been my under the
radar piece, but I want to know how they fill
the maccollins run blocking role. Mac Collins was eleventh amongst

(01:19:57):
all wide receivers in run blocking snaps last year, and
he led all non offensive linemen buffalo bills and run
blocking snaps. So he was involved from a both a
volume slash quantity perspective in the run game, and he
was also involved in very good from a quality perspective
in terms of his execution and being assignment sound. He

(01:20:17):
was also good blocking on wide receiver screens and bubbles
and pass tags and all that kind of stuff. I
think it's possible to replace him. I'm just concerned how
and what that means schematically. Is he replaced by an
individual like Kean Coleman or Dalton Kinkaid, or is it
more of a personnel replacement like More thirteen or more
Jumbo or twenty one? And we see more Reggie Gilliam,
or do they replace him schematically with formation or alignment

(01:20:41):
whatever it is, or however they replacement. I should say
it brings its own set of advantages and disadvantages. And
again that's not necessarily bad. But as a person who
is very much a proponent of if it's not broken,
don't fix it, I would rather be fixated on tweaking
and building upon last year's offense instead of, you know, replace,
And I do think you're going to have to replace

(01:21:03):
you know that Mac Collins. Well, again, it's not doom
and gloom, but I do think it's significant, and then
you canbind that with some of the pass up side
that he brought. I do think it's not necessarily like
the easiest fix, but I do think it is one
that worst case scenario they can cobble together. I just
kind of want to see how and why they do it.
Position group. I'll be watching the most talk about this
Earlier the safeties. Joe and I talked about this. I'm

(01:21:25):
just concerned how Bishop and Rap fit together. If Bishop
and Rap are the starters, does Derek Forrest make a
push Do the bills just say you know what, we're
not impressed with Bishop or Forrest, so it's gonna be
hamdling and rap again. Yeah, I think safety is one
for me. Yeah, most under the radar storyline heading into camp.

(01:21:48):
For me, what they do schematically with Michael Hoyt. Do
they use him in that spinner role like the Rams
did or is he more of a traditional edge in
terms of just being like their traditional four down, one
gapping front, he's just in the edge rotation on the outside. Also,
do they have anyone else if they do use him
as that kind of spinner. And when I say spinner,

(01:22:08):
I've talked about on the show, but for those who
don't know that spinner role, meaning like he could be
on the edge, he could be over the center, he
could be in the A gap, he could be over
a guard or the B gap. He could be off ball,
he could be dropping into coverage, like you don't know
what he's going to do. If they have that role
for Hoyt, which is what I think they brought him
here for, which would be nice but also interesting because

(01:22:29):
they haven't had a guy like that in a very
long time. The closest guy they had to that was
Lorenzo Alexander years ago. If that is the role for Hoyt.
Do they have anyone else in that role with him
being out for six games? Does that role disappear until
he's active, or do they try and plug someone else
into that role because they find value in the role

(01:22:50):
itself in addition to having value in hoy Do they
take someone else and use them in that spinner role
or try and cobble it together in different forms of
fashions or do we see nothing like it and it's
completely not a thing until Hoyt suits up and then
we see that. So I think what they do with
him schematically as an individual, for Hoyt himself, but also

(01:23:10):
does anybody else, you know, kind of fall into that
that role, of that type of usage. Oh, we got
super chat, Bailey Redword, thank you very much for being here.
Thank you very much for the super chat. Deli Sorry, Deli.
Redwood says, just saw Codrington at Target. I just joined
the stream, but was thinking already about what his fate

(01:23:31):
might be tight roster this year, especially for a very
narrow skill set like his thoughts. You know, it's funny
and not evenna plug this. Joe Marino and I who
was my guest earlier on the show at about the
fifty minute mark, roughly, we talked about Brandon Codriton a lot.
Joe had Brandon Condriton and the partner turner situation in

(01:23:53):
general as one of his most eager things to see
during camp. So we talked about that a ton. So
I don't want to just be I don't want to
cop out and be like, oh, you know, just go
back and watch that. But go back and watch that piece.
I will say, you know, you're you're pretty close to
spot onto what we said, you know, tight roster this year,
especially for a very narrow skill set like his thoughts. Yeah,

(01:24:13):
I just don't know if you can commit or burn
a roster spot for a guy who just gives you
kick return and punt return snaps like he doesn't do
anything else from a special teams perspective, doesn't do anything
else from a defense or like an actual corner perspective.

(01:24:34):
So are you cutting somebody for someone who's just in
that one siloed role or can you cobble it together
with someone else and then make a roster spot for
someone who gives you more positional flexibility or roster flexibility
across multiple spots. That's a very good question. Bearded Johnson
is super late. But I'll watch The Green Mile over
Casino any day. Carry on. I think there's two completely
different movies. That's fair, but I'm taking Casino. Yeah, that

(01:24:57):
says I'm still concerned with our safeties. I don't. I
don't know that I'm there with the room yet. I agree.
I am also not there yet. I yeah, I'm nervous.
I like this comment. I went back from Nick. Nick
says is going to need Bishop to night the competition
and make all the right moves in camp no pun intended.

(01:25:19):
Oh I like it, James saying is that chess pieceerie
and Nick saying, yes, yes it is. Yeah, forget when
I said chess piecer. I think I said it on
the live show at Mafia Con with Aaron on Saturday.
I think, but I appreciate you, Jelle. Yeah, really good.
Uh this is good from James, James says, was Codreyton
returning something at Target? Well done? That was very good.

(01:25:45):
I kind of don't want to do anything. I wish
I want to just end the stream right now. There's
nowhere to go but down. That was hilarious. Well done, James,
well done. That was super funny it was Codrick tim
returning something at target that was really good. Oh, well done.
But yeah, DELI a really good question, especially considering again

(01:26:05):
like Codrington only does returner duties. That's it. You're not
getting Oh yeah, he's corner four, or he's the backup nickel,
or he plays all the you know, he plays punt
coverage and kick coverage. He's also a gunner or something
like else. You know. No, it's just returner duties, you know.
So are you And what Joe and I talked about
a bunch was like, are you, you know, keeping him

(01:26:28):
sacrifice as someone like Adrian Strong or JaMarcus Ingram or
maybe Cam Lewis or Jordan Hancock someone like that who
may offer you more meaningful reps in another area. But
really good question. I appreciate you being willing to go
back and check that out. The call, Yeah, Hoyt was
my most under the radar storyline. And then, uh, who

(01:26:49):
or what I'm most eager to see during camp. It's
the coverage and the front structures.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Do you know?

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
Joe and I talked about it a bit, you know,
with Hairston and some of the other defensive line stuff.
But do we see more man coverage? Do you know
what type of coverages are beginning and what capacity? How
creative are they being in their safety spins and their
coverage disguises? Are they getting more creative and their coverages
on the back end? Tying into this a bit, you know,
what's the rotation at safety and the rotation at corner?
Who's you know, CB two and three and four, same

(01:27:16):
thing with safety two and three and four. You know,
talking about just the front aspect. Do we see more simulateds?
Do we see more creepers? Do we see more five
man rushes? For those who don't know, simulated pressures and
creeper pressures are four man rushes, but from a non
traditional sense they're called you know, they're referred to as
safe pressures. And all it essentially is is you're taking

(01:27:36):
a non traditional rusher and rushing them, and taking a
non traditional coverage player and or a traditional rusher and
dropping them. So essentially it's a four man rush. Easiest
way to think of it, it's a four man rush,
but you drop Greg Russeau into coverage and you rush
to rel Bernard, So you're taking a non traditional rusher
in a linebacker sending him on the rush, then taking

(01:27:57):
a traditional rusher in Rousseau and dropping him in a
coverage You're still only rushing four, you're still dropping seven
into coverage.

Speaker 2 (01:28:04):
But it gives you the.

Speaker 1 (01:28:05):
Opportunity to confuse protections, use their rules against them, manipulate
things a bit, and still have numbers in coverage albeit
having a non traditional coverage person in coverage. The difference
between a simulated pressure and a creeper pressure. Simulated pressure
shows pressure before the snap, a creeper pressure does not.
Everybody's kind of just lined up off ball. You're thinking, oh, okay,

(01:28:27):
they only have four down, that's it. And then on
the snap, a linebacker rushes, or you know, your slot
corner rushes and they drop a defensive end or a
defensive tackle or something like that. So do we see
more of that? Do we see more five man rushes?
Ryan Nielsen's teams the past several years, going back through
his time with the Saints and then the Falcons and
then the Jags last year, have always been a team
towards the top of the league in five man rush

(01:28:48):
rate in terms of usage. You know, do we see
more five man rushes from the Bills this year. Do
we see more stunts, do we see more games, Do
we see more blitzes? Or is it more of kind
of like what Jason asked earlier. Do we see more
of Hey, this is what we are, four down, one, gapping, penetrating,
get up field. Is it more of the same or

(01:29:09):
do we start to see more tweaks and changes and
rotation pieces? Question here, how do sims compare to Rex's
old zone blitz?

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (01:29:18):
Good call or good question. I should say zone blitz
is not necessary. Zone blitzer are more from a traditional
blitz sense, you're bringing five or more. A simulated pressure
is you're only rushing four. So it's still it's similar
from the perspective of you're trying. You can create free runners,
or manipulate pass protection rules, or get offenses to keep

(01:29:42):
in extra blockers that they don't actually need. You can
make them think like, hey, we're gonna send this guy
and that guy, and the offense will go okay, then
we got to keep in a tight end and running back.
But then they actually don't need to. So you can
manipulate protections and rules and have the opportunity to potentially
create free runners or create like one on one matchups
that you want, So that's similar in that regard, But overall,

(01:30:05):
the zone blitz piece was more you're actually blitzing, you're
bringing five or more guys, not just rushing four and
dropping you know, a defensive lineman and bringing a non
traditional rusher. It's more of an actual blitz, you're bringing
five or more guys.

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
But the potential.

Speaker 1 (01:30:21):
Philosophy of being kind of attack minded is somewhat there.
But with a simulated it's more, you know, a safe
pressure because you're still only rushing four and dropping seven
into coverage. There's more risk reward because that zone blitz
you're vacating more coverage space and you're usually bringing more
bodies to rush, so you have less guys in coverage.

(01:30:42):
I hope that answer your question. That was a really
good question.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
I really liked that.

Speaker 1 (01:30:44):
I really appreciate that. You know what else is a
really good question. What is the best pizza in Buffalo,
New York? And the answer is one Pi Pizza. I'm
gonna scroll all the way back to the beginning of
this episode because r J said that he had one
Pie pizza a couple of days ago, and he said
the cover one Josh Allen Goat Pizza was great. One

(01:31:09):
Pie Pizza the best pizza in Buffalo, New York. I
don't say that because they sponsor the show. They sponsor
the show because I think they are the best pizza
in Buffalo, New York. And a really cool thing because
we have this partnership with them, maybe about a year
and a half into our partnership, they named a pizza
after us, in conjunction with Josh Allen. It's called the
Cover One Josh Allen Goat One because you know, play

(01:31:30):
on words of Josh Allen being the goat, but also
because there's goat cheese on the pizza. There's I don't
even want to get in the specifics of what's in it.
It is absolutely delicious. Everything they make is delicious. They're
you know, just get getting a regular pie or their
homemade blue cheese. Their menu is tremendously. That menu can
be found in the episode show notes, whether here on
YouTube orhichever podcasting Apple platform you're listening to the show on.

(01:31:51):
I mentioned the catering division in the intro. Their catering
division is amazing. All the different kind of mac and
cheeses and this coconut rice, chicken dish that they had,
which was amazing. I've had them cater multiple events this
summer and last year as well, and it was delicious.
They also do a breakfast pizza. Everything that One Pie
Pizza does is tremendous. So I wanted to bring up
this comment from r JA one. I appreciate you being

(01:32:13):
here RJ and watching the show like you always do
and commenting, but too dropping this that you had yourself
some one Pi Pizza. Glad you enjoyed it, and I'm
glad you got the cover one Josh Allen go. Yeah,
that's tremendous. So if you are in the Buffalo area,
whether you live here, whether you're visiting here, anything and everything,
get yourself some One Pie Pizza. If you need an

(01:32:34):
event that's catered, whatever you're doing, check out Elevated Catering
a Buffalo on that link and online. Men, you can
also be found in the episode showing us whether you're
on YouTube or whichever podcast gap or platform you were
listening to this show on. Yeah, they're really good people
making really good food. I talk about all the time
all the different initiatives and drives that they have for
the city of Buffalo and the community at large, Toys

(01:32:55):
for Tots, partnering with Roswell, the SPCA, the Alzheimer's Foundation.
They just give back an a lot of ways. Aside
from just providing us with tremendous food, they do a
lot of good for the community at large. So get
yourself some one by pizza, do some good for your
taste buds in the community while you're at it, and yeah,
tell them that this guy's coverage and cover one say ooh.

(01:33:15):
R J says, the goat cheese pizza reminds me of
the pizza head in Sicily. It's legitimately great and I'm
not being paid anything to say that. If you ever
needed an endorsement, that's another tremendous one. A plus, RJ,
thank you, thank you very much for that. Well done
on that, RJ King pisas do you think our receivers
can get open and we'll we be able to stop

(01:33:36):
the run and get off the field on third downs?
All of those are questions. I think Palmer will be
a help in terms of guys getting open. I I
think we're only gonna be able to stop the run
with numbers or with gamescript like I talked about earlier
with Joe. I think run defense is still going to
be an issue with just you know, winning one on

(01:33:58):
one or mitigating displaced. I think they're only going to
be able to stop the run by gapping out, run blitzing,
and having numbers in the box. I think that's gonna
be a problem. Getting off the field on third downs
big question. Talked about that last week in the film room,
talked about it a bunch on Twitter. They were horrible
on third downs overall, and especially on third and third
and long, which is seven or more yards. I think
they have to change some coverage pieces. I think they

(01:34:20):
have to marry the coverage mary coverage with their front
and their rush game better and be more varied in
their tack on the front end and on the back end.
Play some more man play, some more press for strict
some passing windows, and some airspace disrupt some timing, allow
the guys to get up front and hunt a little bit.
But also those guys still need to win. I think
that's a big question. So I think do our receivers

(01:34:43):
can Do you think our receivers can get open? I'm hopeful,
but I think yes. I don't think it's going to
be a strength but I think they'll be able to
get the job done. Will we be able to stop
the run? Not unless they gap out and run, blitz
and stack the box. I think that's gonna be problematic.
Or use game script to make teams go away from
the run and then get off the field on third downs.
Big question, Mark, very fair, good question.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
Ah.

Speaker 1 (01:35:05):
David says, my nephew is going to u be this
fall and I told him to go to one plat. Yes,
good answer. David loved that. And then David says, how
much of third down defense issues with Babbage being a
first year coordinator? Will know not to cop out for
an answer, will know more this year. If we see
more of the struggles that we did last year, then

(01:35:27):
it's you know, kind of symptomatic of the defense or
the philosophy and the schematics. If we see a change,
then we know. You know, he grew, he grew a
little bit and adjusted a bit. I do think, you know,
him being a first year coordinator was part of it.
But also he's got guys on that staff and in
that building who should have had the capacity to rain

(01:35:47):
things in a little bit as needed considering how bad
they were, and they didn't. So it's a bit of
a mixture, but very good question. If you have not already,
I'm thrown up the band tootles, tootles you folks, toots folks,
because we're gonna start to say goodbye here and wind down.
If you have not already, please please please make you
drop alike on this video here on YouTube. Like so
the lifeblood of these streams and they mean a lot.

(01:36:10):
It may seem small, but a light goes on long
way to or tell myself and the entire team to
track and trend in front of more eyes and ears.
So if you have not already, please drop alke on
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out all of the content across the entirety of the

(01:36:34):
Cover one channel and yeah, I hope you folks enjoyed
this episode. If there's anything I didn't get to, questions, thoughts, comments, concerns,
anything like that, get at me on Twitter at pro Underscore,
Underscore ant that's pro two underscores ant get at me
on Blue Sky at pro ant no underscore is there,
just pro A n T.

Speaker 2 (01:36:51):
Also, I will.

Speaker 1 (01:36:53):
Be going to training camp tomorrow and Thursday, so follow
me on Twitter and blue Sky for anything and everything
training camp you want. I'm gonna be doing what I
did last year, which is talking a lot about scheme
and structure and how guys are being used and player evaluation,
what we're seeing coverage a lot of what I talked
about tonight, coverage structures, front structures, usage, snap rates, alignments

(01:37:17):
and formation and how guys are being used, who's doing what,
who looks good, who doesn't, who's performing in what capacity. Yeah,
so that was really fun time last year. I hope
folks can join me for that again this year as
I head out to camp. You know, no Jink's fingers
crossed tomorrow and Thursday and potentially Sunday, and yeah, that'll

(01:37:40):
do it for us, I think here adding that threw
me out of the normal rhythm of my outro, So
if I'm forgetting anything or anyone, I apologize. Thank you
very much for Joe Marino for joining me on this episode.
He was awesome as always. Thank you very much to
Jason and Deli Redwood for your super chats and for
being here. Thank you to everyone who tuned in live
this episode. I know we're starting to move forward towards Oh.

(01:38:04):
Thank you for that, David, David saying watch out on
the four ninety due there's construction. Thank you very much
for that. That is actually sincerely and tremendously helpful. I'll leave
a little bit earlier tomorrow and make sure I'm shipshape
with that. Thank it everybody who tuned in live for
this episode. I greatly appreciate it. You know, whether you're
watching live now, watching later, listening later on whatever podcasting
app or platform or medium that you consume this content

(01:38:24):
on whatever form of fashion, I greatly appreciate it. Thank
you so much for your support and whatever outsoor capacity
it comes in. If you enjoyed this episode, tell your
family and friends and loved ones about this episode, or
the channel or the show. If you thought this episode
or me are was is terrible, Tell your enemies about
it and try and make them watch this show and

(01:38:46):
ruin their day. I hope you and your family and
friends and loved ones are all doing well and staying safe.
Be kind of one another take care of one another.
Thank you for the kind words for myself and Joe
throughout the entirety of this episode. Thank you to everyone
who tuned in live, post live, audio only, visual, whatever,
you folks got, Your support and your episode consumption means

(01:39:09):
a sincere ton to me, and I'm very thankful for it.
I'm very appreciative of it. Enjoy the rest of your
Tuesday night, god speed. I will see you tomorrow for
an episode of the Film Room and talking about some
camp stuff, and then I'll see you next Tuesday, nine
pm Eastern for another episode of Disguise coverage. Until then, godspeed,

(01:39:29):
and as always, go Bills.

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The top questions heading into Buffalo Bills training camp | DC

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The top questions heading into Buffalo Bills training camp | DC