October 30, 2024 • 28 mins
In this episode, Dr. David Hanscom talks with Dr. Susanna Calvert, founder and executive director of the Foundation for Family and Community Healing and Sanctuary of Earth. She shares her personal narrative as a Chinese American who followed a traditional path to success, culminating in a tenure-track position at Virginia Commonwealth University. However, she faced a crisis of fulfillment upon achieving tenure, realizing that societal expectations did not equate to personal happiness. This led her to implement significant life changes, including relinquishing her tenure and embarking on a new career path. Her journey reflects her commitment to personal growth and the importance of balancing emotional and cognitive intelligences. Following a 26-year career in higher education, Dr. Susanna (Sanna) Wu-Pong Calvert, MAPP, PhD is the Founder and Executive Director of two 501(c)3 nonprofits, the Foundation for Family and Community Healing (www.HealingEdu.org) which fosters resilience and wellbeing skill development, and Sanctuary of Earth (www.SanctuaryOfEarth.org), whose mission is to actualize human spiritual potential. During her career, she has published almost 100 journal articles, books, book chapters, and abstracts, and has written hundreds of blogs including for Psychology Today. She is a consultant, reiki master/energy healer, soul medium, tarot reader, and intuitive coach (www.SusannaCalvert.com).
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Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Back in Control Radio with Doctor
David Hanscombe.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Back in
Control Radio with Doctor David Hanscom. I'm your host, Tom Masters,
and our guest today is doctor Susannah Calvert. She's the
founder and executive director of two nonprofits, the Foundation for
Family and Community Healing, which fosters resilience and well being
(00:35):
skill development, and Sanctuary of Earth, whose mission is to
actualize human spiritual potential. She's also a consultant Reyka Master,
energy healer and intuitive coach.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome, Thank you, Tom, I like you. Welcome Susanna Colbert today.
And she is some reamigating to know. She sent me
your bile this morning. And I was telling you that
I'm busy, but she's very busy if I'm standing still
next to her. But she is a doctor Susanic. We
called her. Nickname is Sana Upon Calvert. She's had a
(01:13):
twenty six year career in higher education and she's a
founder and executive director of two Survival one c three nonprofits.
One is the Foundation for Family and Community Healing, which
fosters resilience and well being skilled development, and the other
one is Sanctuary of the Earth, whose mission missions to
actualize the human spiritual potential. During career, she has published
(01:37):
almost one hundred journal articles, book book chapters and abstracts.
Has written hundreds of blogs for Psychology Today. She is
chair of the Rotary Club's District seventy six hundred Mental
Health Task Force, a former radio talk show host, TV
personality on Ethereal TV Network, and a consultant Reiki master, healer,
(01:58):
soul medium, Tara An intuitive coach, Susan, is there anything
else that you do.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
That's just about it?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I just like to correct the record. Though I've written
hundreds of blogs, including on Psychology Today, I see, okay,
like that prolific on that channel quite yet.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Well, Sata, welcome to the program, and I'm anxious to
find out more about what you're doing and what I
like to do is I always like to find the
background of how did you what's your background in what
motivated you to head this direction?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Well, that's a great question, and I appreciate you having
me on your show, David and taking the time to
or giving me the opportunity to share my story. So
I am the daughter of two refugees from the Chinese
Communist government, and that pretty much set the stage for
(02:53):
my initial life path, where I pretty much swallowed hook
line and sinker the culture of my ancestry, but also
of the American culture where I was actually born here
without really realizing it. So I'm like a dutiful Chinese
American daughter. I went into a technical field and got
(03:13):
a PhD and went into higher ed and you know,
married a Chinese American physician and had two point two
kids and a nice house and it was pretty much
my to do list for success and happiness. And when
I got the final item, you know, the coveted prize
of tenure, I felt my world crumble around me because
(03:37):
I thought, oh my god, what have I done? Because
instead of being ecstatically happy, I was pretty much a
train wreck. And I'm not sure why that, you know,
one little stamp of approval would take me from feeling
miserable to ecstatic.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, it was wishful.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
There's me back up just for a seconds. So you
were born in the US, and you had two children
at the time by this time, and you had completed
your doctorate, and what was a punctuation point exactly that
seemed to set things off for you? About how old
were you ask a woman or age?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But I was thirty six when I got tenure, So
that was meant to be meant to be the switch
that flipped me from misery into ecstasy.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Okay, I mean it so before the point in time though,
you'd obviously And when you say tenor where were you
teaching at? What were you teaching?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I was at Virginia Commonwealth University teaching pharmaceutical sciences.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Okay. What was your PhD.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
In pharmaceutical chemistry and pharmacy? So it's drug R and
D okay. And I was teaching on the development drug
development side.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Okay, you got you sing.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
And research the whole kitten kaboodle.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And how long had you been teaching when all this happened?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Oh, six six or so years okay.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And how how old are you children at the time?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I guess they were seven and five?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Okay. No, I'm going to make a quick comment. So
it's fascinating because this is actually fairly common. Which I
didn't realize is I had this exact same experience you did.
I had my practice, I had my kids, everything was perfect,
and I couldn't have been more miserable. And I had
done everything on my to do list to be happy,
and I was as miserable as you could get. And
(05:26):
then you get a sense of dissperation. What do I
do now? And so it's extremely similar experience. It's also
quite common. Actually, you do the checklist and you do
all things you're supposed to do, and you're supposed to
be somehow happier and you're not. And so that's a
sense of desperation. What do I do next? So what
did you do next?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Well?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I did what most people would do, and that is
give up tenure.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Oh you did, well, that's not exactly what I did.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
I know, I was joking. Now, I did give up tenure.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I literally went to everybody and I said, oh my god,
what do I do now? And everybody said, well, you
keep doing this until you get professor. And I was
just like, no, that can't be the answer. And I mean,
at the time, I deem is very generous and said
why don't you take a sabbatical And I just said,
it's not going to change anything. I just can't imagine
(06:22):
doing this. So I gave up tenure. They offered to
let me stand part time and continue teaching, which was
a real godsend, and eventually I was invited to take
over a leadership role and administrate and administrative work in addition.
And I took over, I consolidated the school's graduate programs
(06:43):
into one, and I discovered I had I really enjoyed
it and I was good at it, and I, based
on my own experience, I had this vision for helping
our graduate students develop better self awareness and pathways to
managing themselves better managing others. And it's basically a personal
(07:04):
leadership program. And not only was this not available in
our school prior to that for the graduate level master's
and PhD, but it was really it's really not at
the time available in higher ed to very much degree
at all, or even for faculty. So I found a
niche for myself and I became involved in the leadership
(07:25):
program at BCU, the Gracie Harris Leadership Institute, and I
realized I had an Aha moment, that I had a
talent and a passion for this work.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
It was real.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
It taught me off guard, even though people had been
saying this to me for years, Oh my god, Susannah,
you should do this for a living, And I was like,
do what We're just talking. But I was like, Oh,
this is a transferable skill and I love it and
I'm good at it, and I can't wait to go
do this work.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And so it really clarified for me that I had.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
A calling that I never was in search of, and
it was needed and I wanted to do it. And
so I decided to go back to school at the
age of fifty and get a master's degree in applied
positive psychology, which is the science of well being, because,
as you imagine, pharmaceutical chemistry didn't exactly prepare me for that.
(08:19):
So it gave me the foundational knowledge to go into
coaching and development work. And I got a handful of
coaching credentials including life coaching and Strengths and conflict, dynamic
profile and a growth edge which is a developmental you know,
and several you know, a bunch of things, and I
(08:41):
really felt ready to hang my shingle and move into
this new direction. So I found my dream job at
the University of Georgia. So after twenty three years at VCU,
I became the inaugural Director of Faculty Development and where
I was focusing focusing on faculty success and I added
(09:02):
and well well being to my job description, because though
they had a great research and teaching support for faculty,
there was really nothing about the rest of the person.
And unfortunately that's how our school system, well especially Higher
ED and the K twelve. I feel, although it's getting better,
(09:23):
you know, we really and even the workplaces we trained
towards the dashboard and the metrics, and we just sort
of assume the rest of the person is going to
come along, and as we know, that just doesn't happen.
And I feel like this has been one of the
reasons we've have this unmitigating and worsening mental health and
social health crisis.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
And so, so.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
What was what So I got to age thirty seven
tenure issue than age fifty one back to school, so
I finishes thirty seven and fifty What was the essence
of which you did to play I'll pull yourself out
of this tail spin? Well? What was in general? Well,
I mean, there's lots of details. I realized I want
to get too detailed here, but in general, what happened
(10:10):
in those certain years allowed you to go back to
school and actually find your passion.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, I was really lucky because since I was married
to a Chinese American physician, I had the financial freedom
to go part time and basically follow my heart. And
I had this other epiphany during this time, David that
if I wanted to be happy, I should follow my
(10:37):
head less and follow my heart more. And I felt like.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Such an idiot, like here we are.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You know, I was working among some of the smartest
people in the community, and I didn't understand something so
incredibly basic that if I want to be happy, I
should follow my heart.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Well, I don't think it's that basic. I mean, I
think that's our problem right now, is that we're still
geared towards accomplishment and experiences define happy, and so I
think that's the societal norm, don't you think I.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Do think it is.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I mean, I mean, but I have to say that
from the point of view as somebody who's prized intellect,
cognitive activity, and intellectual accomplishment and learning above all else.
And I think a lot of the world does that,
but not everybody. I mean, I feel like there's a
(11:36):
group of a fairly large group of the percentage of
the population that have I'm going to just be very
blunt and say a great deal better emotional intelligence than
I had at the time. And you know, I feel
like a lot of times when people say academics are
out of touch, I think this.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Is part part of it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And I feel like it's just like our humanity. We've
a group of us, or to varying degrees, have given
over the UH, given given away the emotional, for the
cognitive and for the physical and the financial and.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
The UH the or the status and all of that.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We give give away our hearts for these other things
that we think are important. And I'm not saying those
things other things aren't important, aren't important. It's a both
and like they're they're both important, And what what is
missing is balance. It's really about balance that we honor
both and we use the right sort of intellect or
(12:42):
or or intelligence at the right time. So if I'm
having an emotional conversation with somebody, I should be leading
with my emotional intelligence. And if I'm having a conversation
about content or knowledge or recall or problem solving, I
should be leading with my cognitive intelligence. We have all
kinds of intelligences, and I can only speak for myself.
(13:04):
I pretty much disregarded almost all of them, except for
my intellect, because that's all I've known it's what I've
been rewarded for, and it was eventually the lack of
balance that was my undoing.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So that's a pretty big epiphany, going from head to heart,
which is the essence of healing. So was there a
particularly event that brought it on or were you going
through a set of techniques or a process and were
you pursuing different learning tools or I mean, that's a
big transition, that's huge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I would say it was building over time because I
had been doing my inner work since I was a teenager,
just because of the circumstances of my childhood. And I
think during that time period that we talked about post
tenure that I also started to have the bandwidth and
(13:58):
the interests to look at these other areas of my life,
and so it including what was a struggling marriage and
so so I did everything I could to try to
control and make it right, which of course owing backfires.
But I finally realized, you know, I can't control any
(14:20):
of that, and all I can do is work on
my own perspective.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
And so.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That was a big piece of it, just letting go,
like really understanding like what do I have control over
and what do I not and that set me on
a course of really a great deal of introspection and
much more openness and holding myself accountability, accountable for my
(14:46):
quality of life that it doesn't depend on anybody else.
And it didn't save the marriage, but it really gave
me a framework for seeing the world through a lot
more openness, taking in tech account how I feel. And
(15:10):
and and then there was a point in time where
you know, I was going along pretty well and I
was talking to my best friend who's a clinical psychologist
about this and she said, and I said, I'm going
to write a book about this, and she said, you know,
what you're describing is called positive psychology. And I'm like,
what she said, there's this whole discipline in psychology about this.
(15:32):
And so when she said that, I went and explored it.
And so I was like, I want to go study that.
So I read the I think it's called Flourish Martie
Seligman's book, and I'm going to go join that graduate
program and I did. So that that was a big,
a big turning point that not not only when I
(15:53):
was realizing realizing that what I did naturally was something
of value value to people, that there was also a
empirical framework for this that I can build upon. But
I had another pivotal moment, David, was when I was
doing leadership development at Gracie Harris Well. It was actually
(16:16):
before that. It was when I was a learner in
that program. I was participating and it was a great program.
But I went to the facilitator and I said, I
just don't get what do I do with all this
great information? And I didn't really come away with an answer.
But when it was my turn to lead that program,
I realized that, you know, going from head to heart
(16:40):
means also learning how to integrate and embody what we learn.
And so that's why the work I do now, and
the work I did at UGA, and the work that
I was doing even leading graduate student development and learning
professional and personal development, it was all about skill development.
(17:00):
So it's great to know things, but the knowledge is
power trope is way overblown because the truth is we
can only remember a very small portion of that. And
it's true that some of that can be transformed transformational,
but what's even more transformational is figuring it out what
does this mean for me and working it into.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Our our our behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So that's that's what I've been doing ever since, and
and that's what has led me to start my It's
really the main educational strategy I have with my nonprofits.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Okay, well, it's interesting, I'm gonna so it's very much
how much we're on the same page. Because the thing
is about all these things is principles that come on board.
Is the principles are healing that allow people to heal,
and that you know, each person does it their own way,
So whatever way that people do is your approach, and
(17:57):
my approach is about somebody else's approaches. I put a
metaphor called the sequence of healing, the Letter of c
Just visualize a tree with the roots the ground being
your past and the roots being your connection to the past.
So healing begins with connection. Connection, connection, You just get
connected with who you are, good and bad, every part
(18:19):
of it. And then the trunk of the tree is
the confidence of the tools actually be with your pain
or be with the positivity, just being, and then the
real healing curse at the top of the tree with creativity,
which you're describing really nicely. And that connection part is
really key because you connected to who you were, you
started to feel who you were, and that's where the
healing begins. And you know, in our society thing, we
(18:42):
get connected to our accomplishments and our identity and all
sorts of things, but we're not connected to who we are.
And if we're not connected to who you are, it's
hard to connect to other people. So no excited about
your process. And I personally find your process validating for
me because people that go through this process, they have
everybody's in their different style of doing it, but it
(19:04):
does end up with people connecting to what really is
right in front of them. It's a huge factor in
this whole thing. I also coach to ask you is
that you know, I don't know what the driving force
in you, but I think a lot of driving force
for high level professionals is that they're sort of trying.
They come from a tough background and somehow the accomplishments
(19:25):
they're sort of I would say, running from their past,
but they're trying to. You know, this unpleasant past tends
to be a driving force for accomplishments, and you can't
outrun your past. And so in medicine in general, I
think it's quite rampant. People get over achieving that run
their past and they can't do it. Does that resonate
with you at all?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Oh, definitely.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I think every everybody's doing it to some degree, some
more than others. And I was probably the one of
the fastest runners in the pack, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
The book that I.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Refer to is Emotional Alchemy by Tera Bennett Goldman, and
she refers to these past the past beliefs and behaviors
that that drive us as schema. And the thing is
is that they're initially adaptive, because otherwise we wouldn't keep
doing it, But then it comes a point where it's
(20:22):
like too much of a sort of a good thing.
But they're really very fear fear driven, and they're they
generally emanate from traumatic experiences. So when we get to
know ourselves and we realize we have these beliefs and
that we act upon them, we filter our view of
(20:42):
the world and our view of ourselves and others through them,
and that they are very they can they can be
very dysfunctional a lot of the time. There are triggers. Basically,
when we see how that filter affects us, then we
can basically do CBT on us to talk ourselves down
(21:03):
from the hedge and you know, sort of love that
part of us again. And the beauty of that is
when we heal that piece of us that's lost, then
we can recover that part of ourselves. So that's the
gift of doing the inner work. It's so amazing, it's
so beautiful, and it's really hard because it's scary, like
(21:26):
to confront the part of yourself that you are most
afraid of. It takes great courage, but it is so rewarding.
And and the framework that I love to use to
talk about this is Joseph Kempbell's The Hero's Journey, which
I call the Shiro's Journey because I call it the
(21:46):
Shiro's Journey. Joseph calls it the Hero's Journey.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Right right now. I'm a huge fan of that.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, yeah, So, as you know, it's about doing the
inner the inner journey is what is really what really matters,
and go into what he calls the innermost cave to
recover the gift. And so that's the dark night of
the soul, it's the rock bottom moment, whatever you want
to call it. It's the most important and the most
(22:13):
beautiful and precious part of the journey in my view.
And though I don't really enjoy it. I really lean
into it because I go, oh, there's a great, big
gift in here for me.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, well that's fantastic. So we'll talk about what you're
actually manifesting with the two different nonprofits, what you're actually
presenting as far as ways to achieve what you talked about.
And of course it's ironic if you try to quote
achieve that you can't. You're going to let go and
let it happen. So that's the hardest part, is just
letting go and allow this process to work. And then
(22:46):
what people find out on the other side, as you
well know, is that it's so much easier than biting
this stuff all the time, you to just be so
the other side is a beautiful thing. And so I'm
excited that you have ways to do this. What's you
sort of already started this, but with your two nonprofits
(23:06):
and your mission going forward, what do you have two
or three core principles you're trying to bring into the world.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, the Foundation for Family and Community Healing offers this
skill development that I mentioned in the areas of a
relationship with ourselves, each other, Earth and the loving force
that connects us stops short, it pretty stops at the
secular spiritual, where Sanctuary of Earth is about spiritual development,
(23:34):
spiritual development, and again it's focusing on skills. It's all
about letting go, David, and trusting ourselves, following our heart
and our guidance, our gut. And I don't think we
have time to talk about this, but I had a
(23:55):
spiritual awakening in two thousand and eighteen that caused me
to quit this dream life at the University of Georgia
and start my nonprofits profits. And I've been just walking
in that trust ever since and letting taking my ego
out of the way, which was not easy, and it
(24:17):
still is not easy at times, of course, but what
it does enable is just like a freedom, like I
have so much less stress compared to that old me
when I was fifty or I guess I was thirty six.
And what happens when you give yourself open to trust
(24:37):
is that the marac you make room for the miraculous
and the transcendent. So my path is completely different in
the quality and the energy and the ease and the
how inspiring and hopeful it feels to me. And what
I'm hoping for the two platforms is that we provide
the world a roadmap up to taking step by step
(25:03):
process to developing the skills they need to move out
of domination by the head and ego and into a
more balanced life where our heart and our soul have
some rooms to come in and play and create some
amazing experiences for us.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
No, it's fantastic, so really quickly, we will put this
in the show notes. But you as far as access
in your work, you have the two done profits. How
do we access those?
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, the foundation you can access this social emotional learning
and we also focus on resilient skills. It's pretty much
what it is at healingeedu dot org. And we have
a growing library of courses that can be used by
individuals or pairs, if you have a mentor or a
(25:56):
friend you want to do this with, or in a
group facilitated setting. So it's a wonderful tool for any
of those purposes. And we can offer group rates if
your organization or communities interested. We have twenty some courses
right now, and we we develop our own courses, but
we also work with community educators like yourself to bring
(26:18):
so that we can bring the best quality content across
the range of maybe mental illness, adjacent all the way
through flourishing. It's a huge it's a huge, huge spectrum
of places for people to come in. The second is
sanctuaryof Earth dot org and it's just Sanctuary of Earth,
(26:39):
no v in it, and we will be developing a
learning platform similar to Foundations or a healing need to
use right now. We offer courses about how we can
develop develop our divine intelligence and a unique spiritual personality
and that there's no one right, there's one way that's
(27:00):
going to meet everybody's needs. So it's a place to
come and learn and experiment and be with others as
we're discovering and discovering and supporting each other's path. It's
Sanctuaryofearth dot org.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
No being in it. Yeah, thanks y all.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Right, well Son, thank you very very much. I'm excited
about your projects. And I think I always have said
a long time it takes some village. I mean, it's
going to take collaboration among multiple groups like yours to
actually make the change. It's going to come from a
lot of different spots, and the world's a big place
and it's going to take a lot of individual efforts
to coalesce to actually bring this stuff out into the
(27:39):
real world. So I really really appreciate efforts. I'm very
oppressed with them. You've had quite a journey, and thank
you for being on the show.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I appreciate you having me, David, and thank you so
much for your work and making the world a better
place for us all.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I'd like to thank our guest, doctor Susannah Calvert, for
being on the show today and sharing her journey of
self discovery and personal transformation. I'm your host, Tom Masters,
reminding you to be back next week for another episode
of Back in Control Radio with Doctor David Hanscomb, and
in the meantime, be sure to visit the website at
(28:14):
www dot backincontrol dot com.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Thanks for listening today and join us next week for
Back in Control Radium
Hello, and welcome to Back in Control Radio with Doctor
David Hanscombe.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Hello everybody, and welcome to another episode of Back in
Control Radio with Doctor David Hanscom. I'm your host, Tom Masters,
and our guest today is doctor Susannah Calvert. She's the
founder and executive director of two nonprofits, the Foundation for
Family and Community Healing, which fosters resilience and well being
(00:35):
skill development, and Sanctuary of Earth, whose mission is to
actualize human spiritual potential. She's also a consultant Reyka Master,
energy healer and intuitive coach.
Speaker 3 (00:49):
Welcome, Thank you, Tom, I like you. Welcome Susanna Colbert today.
And she is some reamigating to know. She sent me
your bile this morning. And I was telling you that
I'm busy, but she's very busy if I'm standing still
next to her. But she is a doctor Susanic. We
called her. Nickname is Sana Upon Calvert. She's had a
(01:13):
twenty six year career in higher education and she's a
founder and executive director of two Survival one c three nonprofits.
One is the Foundation for Family and Community Healing, which
fosters resilience and well being skilled development, and the other
one is Sanctuary of the Earth, whose mission missions to
actualize the human spiritual potential. During career, she has published
(01:37):
almost one hundred journal articles, book book chapters and abstracts.
Has written hundreds of blogs for Psychology Today. She is
chair of the Rotary Club's District seventy six hundred Mental
Health Task Force, a former radio talk show host, TV
personality on Ethereal TV Network, and a consultant Reiki master, healer,
(01:58):
soul medium, Tara An intuitive coach, Susan, is there anything
else that you do.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
That's just about it?
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I just like to correct the record. Though I've written
hundreds of blogs, including on Psychology Today, I see, okay,
like that prolific on that channel quite yet.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Well, Sata, welcome to the program, and I'm anxious to
find out more about what you're doing and what I
like to do is I always like to find the
background of how did you what's your background in what
motivated you to head this direction?
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Well, that's a great question, and I appreciate you having
me on your show, David and taking the time to
or giving me the opportunity to share my story. So
I am the daughter of two refugees from the Chinese
Communist government, and that pretty much set the stage for
(02:53):
my initial life path, where I pretty much swallowed hook
line and sinker the culture of my ancestry, but also
of the American culture where I was actually born here
without really realizing it. So I'm like a dutiful Chinese
American daughter. I went into a technical field and got
(03:13):
a PhD and went into higher ed and you know,
married a Chinese American physician and had two point two
kids and a nice house and it was pretty much
my to do list for success and happiness. And when
I got the final item, you know, the coveted prize
of tenure, I felt my world crumble around me because
(03:37):
I thought, oh my god, what have I done? Because
instead of being ecstatically happy, I was pretty much a
train wreck. And I'm not sure why that, you know,
one little stamp of approval would take me from feeling
miserable to ecstatic.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Yeah, it was wishful.
Speaker 3 (03:55):
There's me back up just for a seconds. So you
were born in the US, and you had two children
at the time by this time, and you had completed
your doctorate, and what was a punctuation point exactly that
seemed to set things off for you? About how old
were you ask a woman or age?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
But I was thirty six when I got tenure, So
that was meant to be meant to be the switch
that flipped me from misery into ecstasy.
Speaker 3 (04:23):
Okay, I mean it so before the point in time though,
you'd obviously And when you say tenor where were you
teaching at? What were you teaching?
Speaker 1 (04:32):
I was at Virginia Commonwealth University teaching pharmaceutical sciences.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Okay. What was your PhD.
Speaker 1 (04:38):
In pharmaceutical chemistry and pharmacy? So it's drug R and
D okay. And I was teaching on the development drug
development side.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Okay, you got you sing.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
And research the whole kitten kaboodle.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
And how long had you been teaching when all this happened?
Speaker 4 (04:55):
Oh, six six or so years okay.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
And how how old are you children at the time?
Speaker 1 (05:03):
I guess they were seven and five?
Speaker 3 (05:06):
Okay. No, I'm going to make a quick comment. So
it's fascinating because this is actually fairly common. Which I
didn't realize is I had this exact same experience you did.
I had my practice, I had my kids, everything was perfect,
and I couldn't have been more miserable. And I had
done everything on my to do list to be happy,
and I was as miserable as you could get. And
(05:26):
then you get a sense of dissperation. What do I
do now? And so it's extremely similar experience. It's also
quite common. Actually, you do the checklist and you do
all things you're supposed to do, and you're supposed to
be somehow happier and you're not. And so that's a
sense of desperation. What do I do next? So what
did you do next?
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Well?
Speaker 1 (05:49):
I did what most people would do, and that is
give up tenure.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Oh you did, well, that's not exactly what I did.
Speaker 4 (05:56):
I know, I was joking. Now, I did give up tenure.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I literally went to everybody and I said, oh my god,
what do I do now? And everybody said, well, you
keep doing this until you get professor. And I was
just like, no, that can't be the answer. And I mean,
at the time, I deem is very generous and said
why don't you take a sabbatical And I just said,
it's not going to change anything. I just can't imagine
(06:22):
doing this. So I gave up tenure. They offered to
let me stand part time and continue teaching, which was
a real godsend, and eventually I was invited to take
over a leadership role and administrate and administrative work in addition.
And I took over, I consolidated the school's graduate programs
(06:43):
into one, and I discovered I had I really enjoyed
it and I was good at it, and I, based
on my own experience, I had this vision for helping
our graduate students develop better self awareness and pathways to
managing themselves better managing others. And it's basically a personal
(07:04):
leadership program. And not only was this not available in
our school prior to that for the graduate level master's
and PhD, but it was really it's really not at
the time available in higher ed to very much degree
at all, or even for faculty. So I found a
niche for myself and I became involved in the leadership
(07:25):
program at BCU, the Gracie Harris Leadership Institute, and I
realized I had an Aha moment, that I had a
talent and a passion for this work.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
It was real.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
It taught me off guard, even though people had been
saying this to me for years, Oh my god, Susannah,
you should do this for a living, And I was like,
do what We're just talking. But I was like, Oh,
this is a transferable skill and I love it and
I'm good at it, and I can't wait to go
do this work.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
And so it really clarified for me that I had.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
A calling that I never was in search of, and
it was needed and I wanted to do it. And
so I decided to go back to school at the
age of fifty and get a master's degree in applied
positive psychology, which is the science of well being, because,
as you imagine, pharmaceutical chemistry didn't exactly prepare me for that.
(08:19):
So it gave me the foundational knowledge to go into
coaching and development work. And I got a handful of
coaching credentials including life coaching and Strengths and conflict, dynamic
profile and a growth edge which is a developmental you know,
and several you know, a bunch of things, and I
(08:41):
really felt ready to hang my shingle and move into
this new direction. So I found my dream job at
the University of Georgia. So after twenty three years at VCU,
I became the inaugural Director of Faculty Development and where
I was focusing focusing on faculty success and I added
(09:02):
and well well being to my job description, because though
they had a great research and teaching support for faculty,
there was really nothing about the rest of the person.
And unfortunately that's how our school system, well especially Higher
ED and the K twelve. I feel, although it's getting better,
(09:23):
you know, we really and even the workplaces we trained
towards the dashboard and the metrics, and we just sort
of assume the rest of the person is going to
come along, and as we know, that just doesn't happen.
And I feel like this has been one of the
reasons we've have this unmitigating and worsening mental health and
social health crisis.
Speaker 4 (09:44):
And so, so.
Speaker 3 (09:48):
What was what So I got to age thirty seven
tenure issue than age fifty one back to school, so
I finishes thirty seven and fifty What was the essence
of which you did to play I'll pull yourself out
of this tail spin? Well? What was in general? Well,
I mean, there's lots of details. I realized I want
to get too detailed here, but in general, what happened
(10:10):
in those certain years allowed you to go back to
school and actually find your passion.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Well, I was really lucky because since I was married
to a Chinese American physician, I had the financial freedom
to go part time and basically follow my heart. And
I had this other epiphany during this time, David that
if I wanted to be happy, I should follow my
(10:37):
head less and follow my heart more. And I felt like.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
Such an idiot, like here we are.
Speaker 1 (10:44):
You know, I was working among some of the smartest
people in the community, and I didn't understand something so
incredibly basic that if I want to be happy, I
should follow my heart.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Well, I don't think it's that basic. I mean, I
think that's our problem right now, is that we're still
geared towards accomplishment and experiences define happy, and so I
think that's the societal norm, don't you think I.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Do think it is.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I mean, I mean, but I have to say that
from the point of view as somebody who's prized intellect,
cognitive activity, and intellectual accomplishment and learning above all else.
And I think a lot of the world does that,
but not everybody. I mean, I feel like there's a
(11:36):
group of a fairly large group of the percentage of
the population that have I'm going to just be very
blunt and say a great deal better emotional intelligence than
I had at the time. And you know, I feel
like a lot of times when people say academics are
out of touch, I think this.
Speaker 4 (11:53):
Is part part of it.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
And I feel like it's just like our humanity. We've
a group of us, or to varying degrees, have given
over the UH, given given away the emotional, for the
cognitive and for the physical and the financial and.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
The UH the or the status and all of that.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
We give give away our hearts for these other things
that we think are important. And I'm not saying those
things other things aren't important, aren't important. It's a both
and like they're they're both important, And what what is
missing is balance. It's really about balance that we honor
both and we use the right sort of intellect or
(12:42):
or or intelligence at the right time. So if I'm
having an emotional conversation with somebody, I should be leading
with my emotional intelligence. And if I'm having a conversation
about content or knowledge or recall or problem solving, I
should be leading with my cognitive intelligence. We have all
kinds of intelligences, and I can only speak for myself.
(13:04):
I pretty much disregarded almost all of them, except for
my intellect, because that's all I've known it's what I've
been rewarded for, and it was eventually the lack of
balance that was my undoing.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
So that's a pretty big epiphany, going from head to heart,
which is the essence of healing. So was there a
particularly event that brought it on or were you going
through a set of techniques or a process and were
you pursuing different learning tools or I mean, that's a
big transition, that's huge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
I would say it was building over time because I
had been doing my inner work since I was a teenager,
just because of the circumstances of my childhood. And I
think during that time period that we talked about post
tenure that I also started to have the bandwidth and
(13:58):
the interests to look at these other areas of my life,
and so it including what was a struggling marriage and
so so I did everything I could to try to
control and make it right, which of course owing backfires.
But I finally realized, you know, I can't control any
(14:20):
of that, and all I can do is work on
my own perspective.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
And so.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
That was a big piece of it, just letting go,
like really understanding like what do I have control over
and what do I not and that set me on
a course of really a great deal of introspection and
much more openness and holding myself accountability, accountable for my
(14:46):
quality of life that it doesn't depend on anybody else.
And it didn't save the marriage, but it really gave
me a framework for seeing the world through a lot
more openness, taking in tech account how I feel. And
(15:10):
and and then there was a point in time where
you know, I was going along pretty well and I
was talking to my best friend who's a clinical psychologist
about this and she said, and I said, I'm going
to write a book about this, and she said, you know,
what you're describing is called positive psychology. And I'm like,
what she said, there's this whole discipline in psychology about this.
(15:32):
And so when she said that, I went and explored it.
And so I was like, I want to go study that.
So I read the I think it's called Flourish Martie
Seligman's book, and I'm going to go join that graduate
program and I did. So that that was a big,
a big turning point that not not only when I
(15:53):
was realizing realizing that what I did naturally was something
of value value to people, that there was also a
empirical framework for this that I can build upon. But
I had another pivotal moment, David, was when I was
doing leadership development at Gracie Harris Well. It was actually
(16:16):
before that. It was when I was a learner in
that program. I was participating and it was a great program.
But I went to the facilitator and I said, I
just don't get what do I do with all this
great information? And I didn't really come away with an answer.
But when it was my turn to lead that program,
I realized that, you know, going from head to heart
(16:40):
means also learning how to integrate and embody what we learn.
And so that's why the work I do now, and
the work I did at UGA, and the work that
I was doing even leading graduate student development and learning
professional and personal development, it was all about skill development.
(17:00):
So it's great to know things, but the knowledge is
power trope is way overblown because the truth is we
can only remember a very small portion of that. And
it's true that some of that can be transformed transformational,
but what's even more transformational is figuring it out what
does this mean for me and working it into.
Speaker 4 (17:20):
Our our our behavior.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
So that's that's what I've been doing ever since, and
and that's what has led me to start my It's
really the main educational strategy I have with my nonprofits.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
Okay, well, it's interesting, I'm gonna so it's very much
how much we're on the same page. Because the thing
is about all these things is principles that come on board.
Is the principles are healing that allow people to heal,
and that you know, each person does it their own way,
So whatever way that people do is your approach, and
(17:57):
my approach is about somebody else's approaches. I put a
metaphor called the sequence of healing, the Letter of c
Just visualize a tree with the roots the ground being
your past and the roots being your connection to the past.
So healing begins with connection. Connection, connection, You just get
connected with who you are, good and bad, every part
(18:19):
of it. And then the trunk of the tree is
the confidence of the tools actually be with your pain
or be with the positivity, just being, and then the
real healing curse at the top of the tree with creativity,
which you're describing really nicely. And that connection part is
really key because you connected to who you were, you
started to feel who you were, and that's where the
healing begins. And you know, in our society thing, we
(18:42):
get connected to our accomplishments and our identity and all
sorts of things, but we're not connected to who we are.
And if we're not connected to who you are, it's
hard to connect to other people. So no excited about
your process. And I personally find your process validating for
me because people that go through this process, they have
everybody's in their different style of doing it, but it
(19:04):
does end up with people connecting to what really is
right in front of them. It's a huge factor in
this whole thing. I also coach to ask you is
that you know, I don't know what the driving force
in you, but I think a lot of driving force
for high level professionals is that they're sort of trying.
They come from a tough background and somehow the accomplishments
(19:25):
they're sort of I would say, running from their past,
but they're trying to. You know, this unpleasant past tends
to be a driving force for accomplishments, and you can't
outrun your past. And so in medicine in general, I
think it's quite rampant. People get over achieving that run
their past and they can't do it. Does that resonate
with you at all?
Speaker 4 (19:46):
Oh, definitely.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I think every everybody's doing it to some degree, some
more than others. And I was probably the one of
the fastest runners in the pack, but yeah, it was.
Speaker 3 (19:59):
You know.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
The book that I.
Speaker 1 (20:00):
Refer to is Emotional Alchemy by Tera Bennett Goldman, and
she refers to these past the past beliefs and behaviors
that that drive us as schema. And the thing is
is that they're initially adaptive, because otherwise we wouldn't keep
doing it, But then it comes a point where it's
(20:22):
like too much of a sort of a good thing.
But they're really very fear fear driven, and they're they
generally emanate from traumatic experiences. So when we get to
know ourselves and we realize we have these beliefs and
that we act upon them, we filter our view of
(20:42):
the world and our view of ourselves and others through them,
and that they are very they can they can be
very dysfunctional a lot of the time. There are triggers. Basically,
when we see how that filter affects us, then we
can basically do CBT on us to talk ourselves down
(21:03):
from the hedge and you know, sort of love that
part of us again. And the beauty of that is
when we heal that piece of us that's lost, then
we can recover that part of ourselves. So that's the
gift of doing the inner work. It's so amazing, it's
so beautiful, and it's really hard because it's scary, like
(21:26):
to confront the part of yourself that you are most
afraid of. It takes great courage, but it is so rewarding.
And and the framework that I love to use to
talk about this is Joseph Kempbell's The Hero's Journey, which
I call the Shiro's Journey because I call it the
(21:46):
Shiro's Journey. Joseph calls it the Hero's Journey.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
Right right now. I'm a huge fan of that.
Speaker 1 (21:52):
Yeah, yeah, So, as you know, it's about doing the
inner the inner journey is what is really what really matters,
and go into what he calls the innermost cave to
recover the gift. And so that's the dark night of
the soul, it's the rock bottom moment, whatever you want
to call it. It's the most important and the most
(22:13):
beautiful and precious part of the journey in my view.
And though I don't really enjoy it. I really lean
into it because I go, oh, there's a great, big
gift in here for me.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Yeah, well that's fantastic. So we'll talk about what you're
actually manifesting with the two different nonprofits, what you're actually
presenting as far as ways to achieve what you talked about.
And of course it's ironic if you try to quote
achieve that you can't. You're going to let go and
let it happen. So that's the hardest part, is just
letting go and allow this process to work. And then
(22:46):
what people find out on the other side, as you
well know, is that it's so much easier than biting
this stuff all the time, you to just be so
the other side is a beautiful thing. And so I'm
excited that you have ways to do this. What's you
sort of already started this, but with your two nonprofits
(23:06):
and your mission going forward, what do you have two
or three core principles you're trying to bring into the world.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
Well, the Foundation for Family and Community Healing offers this
skill development that I mentioned in the areas of a
relationship with ourselves, each other, Earth and the loving force
that connects us stops short, it pretty stops at the
secular spiritual, where Sanctuary of Earth is about spiritual development,
(23:34):
spiritual development, and again it's focusing on skills. It's all
about letting go, David, and trusting ourselves, following our heart
and our guidance, our gut. And I don't think we
have time to talk about this, but I had a
(23:55):
spiritual awakening in two thousand and eighteen that caused me
to quit this dream life at the University of Georgia
and start my nonprofits profits. And I've been just walking
in that trust ever since and letting taking my ego
out of the way, which was not easy, and it
(24:17):
still is not easy at times, of course, but what
it does enable is just like a freedom, like I
have so much less stress compared to that old me
when I was fifty or I guess I was thirty six.
And what happens when you give yourself open to trust
(24:37):
is that the marac you make room for the miraculous
and the transcendent. So my path is completely different in
the quality and the energy and the ease and the
how inspiring and hopeful it feels to me. And what
I'm hoping for the two platforms is that we provide
the world a roadmap up to taking step by step
(25:03):
process to developing the skills they need to move out
of domination by the head and ego and into a
more balanced life where our heart and our soul have
some rooms to come in and play and create some
amazing experiences for us.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
No, it's fantastic, so really quickly, we will put this
in the show notes. But you as far as access
in your work, you have the two done profits. How
do we access those?
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Okay?
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Well, the foundation you can access this social emotional learning
and we also focus on resilient skills. It's pretty much
what it is at healingeedu dot org. And we have
a growing library of courses that can be used by
individuals or pairs, if you have a mentor or a
(25:56):
friend you want to do this with, or in a
group facilitated setting. So it's a wonderful tool for any
of those purposes. And we can offer group rates if
your organization or communities interested. We have twenty some courses
right now, and we we develop our own courses, but
we also work with community educators like yourself to bring
(26:18):
so that we can bring the best quality content across
the range of maybe mental illness, adjacent all the way
through flourishing. It's a huge it's a huge, huge spectrum
of places for people to come in. The second is
sanctuaryof Earth dot org and it's just Sanctuary of Earth,
(26:39):
no v in it, and we will be developing a
learning platform similar to Foundations or a healing need to
use right now. We offer courses about how we can
develop develop our divine intelligence and a unique spiritual personality
and that there's no one right, there's one way that's
(27:00):
going to meet everybody's needs. So it's a place to
come and learn and experiment and be with others as
we're discovering and discovering and supporting each other's path. It's
Sanctuaryofearth dot org.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
No being in it. Yeah, thanks y all.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Right, well Son, thank you very very much. I'm excited
about your projects. And I think I always have said
a long time it takes some village. I mean, it's
going to take collaboration among multiple groups like yours to
actually make the change. It's going to come from a
lot of different spots, and the world's a big place
and it's going to take a lot of individual efforts
to coalesce to actually bring this stuff out into the
(27:39):
real world. So I really really appreciate efforts. I'm very
oppressed with them. You've had quite a journey, and thank
you for being on the show.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
I appreciate you having me, David, and thank you so
much for your work and making the world a better
place for us all.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (27:53):
I'd like to thank our guest, doctor Susannah Calvert, for
being on the show today and sharing her journey of
self discovery and personal transformation. I'm your host, Tom Masters,
reminding you to be back next week for another episode
of Back in Control Radio with Doctor David Hanscomb, and
in the meantime, be sure to visit the website at
(28:14):
www dot backincontrol dot com.
Speaker 3 (28:20):
Thanks for listening today and join us next week for
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