Recovering from the Impacts of Childhood Parental Alienation

In this episode, Dr. David Hanscom talks with Lisa Goodpaster, author, childhood trauma educator and founder of the Stephood Project. A child of divorce, she broke her neck, and suffered for years with over 22 physical symptoms and intense chronic pain. She shares her experience of feeling alienated from both her mother and father by her stepmother, and the impact it had on her childhood. She explains that by reading Back in Control, going through the Hoffman process and working with somatic therapist Kendra Bloom, she discovered the roots of her suffering in her childhood alienation and how to use that awareness to heal. Lisa Goodpaster is the founder of the Stephood Project, a childhood trauma educator and the author of Alienated: When Parents Won’t Parent. She was alienated from both her mother and father by her stepmother. Lisa’s ability to connect and inspire while creating a safe space for all who are struggling to understand children who have been alienated is unmatched. Lisa is also a motivational speaker helping all families and professionals understand the complex issues that arise in all families. Her ability to connect and help others understand the dangers of not co-parenting and the connection to parental alienation is creating a positive movement forward to help create change while clearing the path for other survivors to come forward. For more information, visit https://www.stephoodproject.org.

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Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Back inControl Radio with Doctor David Hanscomb. Hello
everybody, and welcome to another episodeof Back in Control Radio with Doctor David
Hanscom. I'm your host, TomMasters, and our guest today is Lisa

(00:25):
Goodpastor. She's a childhood trauma educator, a motivational speaker, and founder of
the step Hood Project. She's alsothe author of Alienated When Parents Want Parent.
She helps families and professionals understand thecomplex issues that arise in all families
and has a unique ability to connectand inspire all who are struggling to understand

(00:48):
children who have been alienated. Welcome, Thank you, Tom. I'd like
to produce Lisa good Pastor, whoI met through Zoom and whatever on Round
twenty twenty one, and she's hadquite a story. She just wrote a
book called Alienated When Parents Won't Parent, and she has quite a story to

(01:08):
tell. She was alienated from bothher mother and father by her stepmother,
which unfortunately very common problem. Herability to connect and inspirebile creating a safe
space for all who are struggling tounderstand children who have been alienated as unmatched.
She's a motiv motivational speaker helping familiesand professionals alike understand complish issues arise
within families. And she's just avery excellent background. She's very energetic,

(01:33):
very passionate about what she does,and interesting enough for me that I've been
doing chronic paint work for many years, but the last three years of my
practice, I realized that the familyis actually the biggest factor of keeping people
in pain. So people get betteron their own, go back to their
families, get pulled right back intothe hole. And so we spent the
last couple of years creating a structurearound the family. So as powerful as

(01:56):
the family is about keeping people inthe hole, it's also equally is powerful
pulling people out of the hole.So, Lisa, welcome to the show
today, and we're excited. I'mexcited. I haven't met talked to you
for a while in general, soI'm excited to catch up in general.
But anyway, welcome, thank youfor having me. It's so good to
be back and be able to talkabout the book and how to help everyone

(02:19):
else it's suffering. So let's starta little bit with the book Alienated.
Just give us a taste of yourbackground, and she lays it on the
book very intensely. It's quite aninteresting to read. So how did this
the book reflection a pretty tough childhood? Can you give us the sort of
synopsis? Was like in your childhoodbeing a kid and all these factors coming

(02:46):
at you, sure like every formerchildhood divorce. I thought my childhood was
normal. I thought it sucked internallyon the inside. But I just felt
like my childhood was like everyone else's. We all kind of silently kind of
you know, suffer in silence.I felt very alone, very confused,

(03:14):
and I was always internally uh frustrated, always felt stuck. And that stayed
with me. That that I felta lot of anger, but I held
it on the inside. Now,when you how old were you when your
parents divorced? I was four whenmy parents divorced, and I was seven

(03:38):
when they both remarried. Yeah,and so I have very very little memories
of my mom and dad and Itogether. And do you have siblings.
I have siblings. Yes. Theword the world refers to them as half
to me their whole because I'm theoldest. So I watched them all,

(04:00):
you know, get born into theworld. Okay, and uh so in
my in my case. Uh,you know, I was just a typical
from the outside. I just likea typical com for divorce. Both my
parents seem to have uh the samegoals for me, but just different methods,
and their parenting styles collided, andso as a little kid, for

(04:25):
me, that was looking back waytoo much adult stuff for me, way
too much. You know, No, this is this is before the divorce.
Uh, this was after the divorcebetween born and seven. So so
as as parents are trying to moveon with their lives, the kids are

(04:46):
kind of they're waiting for them tomove on with their lives, and the
kids are kind of we're watching everything. We're watching our mom's reactions, our
dad's reactions, uh everything that that'ssuch an important age. So for me,
you know, I just I alwaysin my mind, I always had

(05:08):
a really close relationship with my dadand I still do. However, as
a little seven year olds, youdon't know what healthy relationships are supposed to
be with our parents because we're right. So, yeah, my childhood was
very much like the latch Key genX childhood parents that you know, they
loved me the best that they could. It's just there are things that happened,

(05:30):
and in order to survive, Istayed silent. Well, you're being
a very interesting point in that youhave two parents to both parents divorced,
both parents re married, but there'sthat in between no man's land where you
don't know where things are going togo. And then number one people,
number one factor people seeking life isfeeling safe. And so if there's always

(05:56):
a moving target back and forth,changing differ relationships, different jobs, et
cetera, you don't feel safe.So when between four and seven, what
how did that well to Who didit feel like? And how did it
play out as far as your behaviorsand how life went for you at that
age? Oh, David, itwas what I know now was high octane

(06:18):
anxiety. And then I didn't knowSo no, no, no, why
do you say that, because anxietyis pretty intense. You just thought it
was normal. I thought it wasnormal because I can't even remember. Uh,
if my dad would call and Iwas with my mom, my mom
would have like a a frustrated likehe's calling, like this is our time

(06:42):
type of you know type of feeling, and instantly, instantly I would feel
very anxious on the inside, veryuh, not safe. I never felt
safe and I didn't realize it.I felt safe like with my grandparents when
I was in big crowds with myfamily, but I never felt safe with

(07:05):
my parents. Did you have likethis sensation anxiety? Did you have heart
racing, heart sweating, couldn't sleep? And what was some symptoms you had?
I had like racing heart rate,always racing, I had. I
used to see stars like you know, you see those little like stars when

(07:27):
you're you know, like almost likeyou're going to pass out, but you're
not. You just it's like youmove too fast. I would always feel
like I was outside of my body, but I didn't realize I just it
was my normal. What I'm findingout in my work right now, I
work in chronic physical pain for alot of time. Over the last five
years, have become readily apparent thatthe mental pain in the form of ruminating

(07:53):
repetitive thoughts is a big problem.And the data shows that ninety percent of
children eight years old and under haveruminations, and twenty seven of those kids
have really invasive thoughts. They reallytorture people. Was that an issue with
you, the racing of I callhim rush, repetitive unpleasant thoughts. You

(08:16):
know as a teenager, yes,but between under ten what I think,
you know, maybe people would referto it as disassociation. Okay, I
would imagine, I would imagine abetter life. I would imagine I was
imaginative, I was either I wouldpretend I would just play but not but

(08:41):
not like but by myself, likeby myself. I don't recall really ruminating
other than I mean as an adult, yeah, but as a kid it
was more I felt more like Iwas like I would go off and I
would just if I didn't like whereI was at, I would just imagine

(09:03):
or I would play music. Soa lot of daydreaming then, yeah,
I would say day dreaming definitely,way better word. Yes, day dreaming.
You know, you bring up apoint I don't talk about very much.
But I also remember I had abrendous childhood also, but I'll be
between ages eight and fourteen, itwas a huge amount of daydreaming. You

(09:24):
sort of escape into a different world, right, Yeah, and it worked
to some degree. Yes, interesting, So let's jump ahead. So again
the basic thing. People forget thisSo parents tell kids, you know,
do this, this, and thiswould be successful here, here and here.

(09:46):
But I think the only thing thatkids need is to feel safe.
That's it. It doesn't matter whatyou do or don't do. It's really
just about feeling safe and nurtured.It sounds like that you didn't have very
much of that. No I did. I obviously I didn't because I didn't
by the time I was seven,an eight, eight and I went to

(10:13):
live, I went to jump inthe car. I went to live with
my dad. It was supposed tobe for a week, and it turned
into like five years of hell.And because I was a kid, I
didn't I didn't understand that. Okay. My mom was, in my face,
the stricter parent because she was moreabout stability and doing your homework and

(10:35):
rules, and my dad was complete, have fun, be free, and
so I always chose my dad.And the weird thing was I didn't feel
my dad. I felt like Ihad to protect my dad. So it
sounds like your stepmother was difficult.She was very covert, very judgmental,

(10:56):
and jealous. Okay, so I'malso finding out that's a really common problem.
Also. I won't go into details, but okay, so your your
father's daughter, why would you Whyshould she be jealous? It doesn't make
I mean it happens all the time, but it doesn't make any sense to
me, right because you know,with the work that I've done and the

(11:20):
people that I've talked to, andyou see this commonly, and it's it's
apparently it has to do. It'sjealousy, but it's a threat for a
woman because no one. She wantsher own family, She wants her own,
her own children, with her ownperson. And I was a reminder

(11:45):
that my dad had a past,and so her delusions and her her lack
of integrity on the inside without youknow, maybe she should say help,
maybe talk to my mom, likeI don't really want to watch your daughter.
But my parents had no idea.Nobody would have understood. So with

(12:07):
your stepmother, she criticized you alot. Yeah, she she criticized my
parents. She criticized me. Andwhen she did, when she first did,
I can remember being you know,seven eight and feeling like it felt
like a bully, you know,like like you know, like what's like

(12:31):
that doesn't feel good on the inside. But I didn't have the communication skills
to say, hey, mom,dad, I don't I don't like how
this person is talking about you ormy dad. But you didn't feel safe
going to your mother or father aboutthis. No, And oftentimes she would
talk this way in front of mydad. And so when my dad,

(12:54):
you know, I think he hewould stick up for me, he would
try to do his you know,he would want to ignore it or this
isn't the time, or and itwas just it would always get pushed back
to me. So the way thatI look at it now, she had
to portray me as an evil stepchildto make herself feel better. Yeah,

(13:16):
there's a term for that called gaslighting. I'm sure that term. And so
you keep being told things about yourselfthat just aren't true. If you always
do this, you always do this, or this, this and this,
so you get labeled and that's calledgas lighting. And as absolutely dealy.
So this jump ahead to middle tolate teenage years, which I'm guessing weren't
so great. Well they were wellnow looking back now, it's like,

(13:43):
well, they weren't great, ButI think I did a great job as
far as surviving, as far as, you know, tolerating what I had
to tolerate. By the time Iwas thirteen fourteen, I was so internally
angry. My parents had no controlover I didn't want to be anything like

(14:05):
them. I was rebelling. Iwas angry and I was a rebel and
I couldn't explain why. And Ithought it was just normal. I mean,
we're talking, you know, babyboomers, the eighties, kids were
silenced. You know. It justall of my friends, I mean,
we all seemed to have similar situations. So I just kind of I just

(14:28):
kept thinking, one day, I'mgoing to get out of here. One
day, I'm going to get outof here. So what were some of
the mental symptoms and physical symptoms thatplayed out during that point a time or
behaviors? What was it like beingin that spot? Oh? God,
it was it was dark, Itfelt like I it felt like I was

(14:58):
oppressed. It felt like I hadno voice. Physical symptoms. What kind
of physical symptoms did you have asa teenager. I was super reactive.
The minute someone would say anything,it was like then I would just fly

(15:22):
out of my mouth. I wasprotecting myself. I had to protect myself
from everybody and everything. And Ihonestly, I mean, I don't mean
to make light of it, butI would have to. Like I was
always trying to figure out life.I was trying to figure myself out,
so I would I honestly thought,oh, I'm this way because I'm a
scorpio, and you can read allthe things about what a scorpio, and

(15:46):
I would like, oh that's me, or oh well, I'm Latina.
We're always passionate. So I wasalways trying to make sense of my own
feelings and behavior. So I wasalways always trying, but always feeling like
I was misunderstood right, and thatwas hard. Did you find any haven

(16:07):
of safety during that period of time? Yes, throughout throughout my entire life,
And I think that's what made abig difference with I had grandparents,
I had aunts and uncles, andI wasn't alienating from them, and that
I think it was a battle.It was between a battle, honestly between
dark and light. So when Iwas with my grandparents and my cousins,

(16:27):
I would just like ignore, likeeventually I would. I was always mindful
of like the time, Okay,I have this much time left before I
have to go back. Did youhave what were your friends like the same
situation or do you feel safe withyour friends or not so safe? I
felt safe with my friends. Bythe time I got to high school,

(16:48):
I had made really good friends.And the funny thing is most of my
friends had intact families, so therewas a safety around that. So I
was never around. I was alwaysat friend's house. I mean to the
point where my friends were still friendsnow. And I like, remember our
dad wanted to write you off onour taxes because I was always there.

(17:10):
So yeah, I had luckily,I had really good friends. And what
were your anxiety levels back? Likeback then, I wouldn't even known if
it was anxiety because I was soused to just always super hyper vigilant,
super hype vigilant smells I could,like there was a running joke because nobody

(17:36):
knew back then there was like,oh gosh, Lisa can smell anything smells.
My senses were just like always likeat a peak. I never felt
like I could just you know,when your home, you want to just
like lay down and cuddle and watchTV and just be safe with your with

(17:56):
your family, with your parents,I assume with me, it was always
is like, uh, oh,they're home now. And I always felt
like I was doing something wrong,like I would check like did I do
anything wrong? Honest to god,I always felt like I was like a
prisoner in my own in my ownlittle self. So it sounds like it's

(18:18):
a little bit disturbing or a lotdisturbing. Actually, is that you felt
incredibly unsafe around your parents and stepparents, and you felt incredibly so you know
what safety was because your friend's familiesand your other relatives felt safe. So
the contrast couldn't have been great.That might have made things worse a little
bit, but at least she hada spot in your brain that said this
is safe. And so again,humans want to feel safe, so I

(18:41):
know what happens. Also to thebumber. It also tends to play out
in your new relationships because you havefamiliar patterns and you end up being with
people who who exhibit familiar patterns,even though you don't recognize that initially.
And I know you went through sometough mrital issues. Also, is that
correct? Right? Right? Right? Right? And I don't remember did

(19:03):
you do the Hoffman process? Isthat more connections? Okay? So we
know? Okay, do you wantto explain that just about three sentences.
It's a little complicated, but yourfamily programming just plays out the rest of
your life and your future relationships untilyou recognize the patterns. It's pretty hard
to change them. Can you describethe howffing? Well? How old were

(19:25):
you when you went to Hoffman?I was at SEE twenty seventeen, and
I think it was forty seven.Okay, so let's get back to Hoffman
in a second. But your familypatterns flat up play out in your future
relationships. And what Hoffman taught me, you're always attracted to your darkest patterns

(19:45):
because they're the most familiar. Theycome in different packages, but that's what
happens. And so anyway, sohow old were you when the lights started
to come on? So I reallywent through two marriages to probably play someone
like your childhood. So when we'reable to start feeling safer or when didn't

(20:07):
things start to turn around for you? When I after I graduated from high
school, I got pregnant, gotmarried, and moved to Hawaii. So
when I got away from family,it was it was having my son being
a mom or not. That waslike everything that I hated I just pushed

(20:30):
down. I just you know,it's like, now I have a purpose,
right, And I because I hatedwhat was happening to me as a
child as a teen, throughout mylife, I remember specifically thinking I am
never going to do this to mychild if I ever become a parent.
So I rebelled so bad away fromwhat happened to me. However, when

(20:56):
we rebel, we pick up alot more patterns and behavior. So how
this plays out. How it playedout was that I was a great mom,
was not ready to be a wifeat all. Right, and so
my first marriage and we're still close, we've raised our study great. My

(21:17):
son's thirty one now, and youknow, looking back, I wish I
would have known. I wish Iwould have known, but you know,
I mean we both were very young. But I would say after that divorce,
I became a flight attendant and thatwas really good because I got away,

(21:40):
I got to travel, and Imet my second husband and we were
married for over twenty years. Itwas the first person I can honestly say
that I felt safe with. Ohgood, I felt safe. He was
very nurturing. And we kind ofjoke about it now, but it was
like, Lisa, you married yourmom and your dad. I'm like,
no, I didn't. But ina way he would that that relationship was

(22:03):
I'm very grateful for it. Ogood. So when we met back around
twenty twenty one you were Were youhaving chronic pain? It was it mental
pain? Physical pain? And whatwas it? What was the how do
we end up connecting? Well,I had pain. I had so I
had Oh my gosh, I hadrashes to joint pain. Uh just numbing.

(22:30):
Uh my my fingers tips would getnumb. Gosh. There was an
amount of the mental pain. Istill didn't know what happened to your audience
knows I had. I had asevere cycling accident and that I'm sure to

(22:52):
see his cycling cycling, recycling.Yeah, And what happened was I broke
my neck in that accident and Ididn't know it must have been a small
fracture. And when I started hangingout with my family in as you said
earlier, like when we go backinto family, those paint circuits they kind

(23:14):
of they reawaken and I'm around mystep mom. I didn't know that I
had been aiming that all of thatstuff that's in the book, I didn't
know. And I'm not kidding.I was having panic attacks and didn't really
understand it. It was a panicattack. And I'm still in my forties
and like Rash loveto, it's calledlivito reculitis. It's like a vascular like

(23:41):
all this spotching was happening all overmy body, and because of my age,
everybody assumed it was menopause. AndI asked my stepmom, I said,
can you help me? I don'tfeel good, and she actually came
in the room with me, andmy body is on fire on the inside.
And a couple months later I foundthe proof and realized, okay,

(24:06):
this is what's going on. Becausethere's a lot of stuff to unpack with
this, but the pain, itwas like my body, my body was
warning me that this lady that hasbeen in your life for forty years is
not helpful to you. And howlong did that phase last for this sort
of journalized pain and misery? Soafter the Hoffman it went away about two

(24:33):
weeks after the Hoffman. Okay,that was twenty seventeen, you said,
Okay, so I also unpack something. Just for a second, I'll ask
you to comment on it. Isthat you know, I had skin rashes,
my scalefish, my feet burned,I had panic attached all this sort
of stuff, and I you know, I'm a traditional physician, so I
couldn't get anybody to tell me whatwas going on, and so they keeps

(24:57):
you all with psychological psychological Well guesswhat's actually your body's physiology, your chemistry.
Skin rashes don't just show up ifsomething causes them, and they call
mass cells. They get fired upfrom your fight or flight response and they
fire up. And so panic attacksis your body is a so anxiety,
it's just a sensation generated by stressphysiology, your adrenaline, corsol, cidikins,

(25:19):
you know, all this stuff firesup. Your brain itself gets inflamed.
Half your brain is the immune systemand that gets inflame. So have
you heard this term called medically unexplainedsymptoms m U s okay? Once a
common term started in the Failing PressurePractice letters into two thousand and two,
called medically medically unexplained symptoms. Soyou go to a doctrum just and they

(25:42):
said you had urticaria. Have youheard that before? It sounds familiar.
Well, you just have these rashes, but nobody knows what's going on.
So I'm gonna say they're going tomake it these diagnoses. But the bottom
line is youer in stress chemistry,stress physiology, and so I have skin
rattes all over my skin rashes allof my body. I get all sorts
of creams and oyments and stuff,and when I came out of my plunge,

(26:06):
every one of my symptoms disappeared,including all of those things. And
I'm guessing you've gone through the samething. Uh huh, Yeah, it
was very Yeah. The difference wasas a kid, I didn't I didn't
have the rashes, but the feelings, the stress response was The thing is
just now I'm in my adult body, right, So just to clarify that

(26:29):
for the audience, I know youalready know this, but anxiety is just
a sensation generated when you're in fightor flight. If a dog comes running
at you, you feel anxious.So it's a description of a physiological state.
It is not psychological. It isnot. And the problem is if
you treat this physiological response psychologically,this survival response is one million times stronger

(26:49):
than your conscious brain, a millionto one. So I don't want to
get too much of this because Ireally want to hear more of your story.
So what I like to is wesummarized this first part of the podcast
in that you had a lot ofmental physical distress as a child, it
carried on into your adult life.And we'll talk about hopping when we get

(27:12):
back, but I'd just like tomake sure this podcast gets out there too.
You're now doing pretty well or doingvery well big contrast. Yes,
and we'll talk about the hoppin processwhen we get back. But what are
something that you learned about healing outof this process. One that it's possible

(27:36):
right that I had to understand mybody and it helped to know actually what
happened to me. It's not understandingit would have been really difficult, right,
The why is important, but whyit is very important. Also support

(27:56):
from my parents the truth to getmy parents' validation instead of they didn't know.
They didn't know. So when wetalk about families of a lot of
families, you know, because oftheir own programming and patterns, it's hard

(28:17):
for them to see their angry childas you. You're just angry, there's
something wrong with you. So whatwas really helpful was both my parents understanding
owning and it actually it actually openedup my heart for them as well,

(28:41):
So it was very healing. Sothat was probably the most significant force.
Was that genuine, authentic love fromyour parents. They really did love me.
They never would have allowed this hadthey know. Yeah, I mean
that's no I people do the bestthey can do with what they have.

(29:04):
That's all you can expect. Andif they don't have the tools, they're
doing the best they can do that. But you know, those problems to
get pass to the kids. Andso anyway, we're gonna talk more about
what you're doing now, but Iwill you know, I work with the
school systems and stuff a bit,and you know these parents want their kids
to be less stressed. Well,my point has been for a long time

(29:25):
and it's not totally popular. Ifyou want to solve your kids problems,
you're the You cannot be less stressedthan your parents. The way to help
your kids is you learn the toolsyourself and help them feel safe. When
anybody is angry, nobody feels safe. You don't feel safe that people that
are angry don't feel safe. It'sa bi directional process. So feeling safe

(29:49):
is healing and anger is destructive andnobody feels safe. So anyway, so
can you like to fish up?Can you tell us about your book a
little bit and what you offer services? Sure? So my book Alienated when
parents one parent is really it's helpingparents become better parents. It is my

(30:14):
true story that I was basically youknow, alienated, brainwashed to uh not
love or like my parents. AndI know that's like, how how could
that happen? It happens a lot, uh, And so what I'm doing
is spreading awareness and also trying toempower and bring kids back to let them

(30:38):
know it's okay to have a saferelationship with our parents, especially when you
have parents that are that that wantthat that that are willing to do what
it takes. And you know,right now our families are in peril,
I mean in a huge way.And so I trying to bring awareness and

(31:02):
really talk about the importance of ourparent and child attachment and that is the
foundation. And also what's really goodfor everyone to know is when you have
both parties, you know, thechild whatever their age is at and the
parent and they're willing to meet,healing happens, your beginnings happens. Yeah,

(31:22):
absolutely, And that's that's you havea book called it's called Alienated When
Parents Won't Parent. Then you havethe Stepwood Project dot org. Is that
Do you offer services through that?Yes? So right now I am working
with and the audience can click thelink. But it's called hope and darkness.

(31:44):
Hope in darkness, cope in darkness, hope in darkness. Yes,
okay, And what we're doing iswe work with families that are going through
what I went through, high conflictdivorces and the kids are not able to
see their parents for whatever reason.So we are helping unite and bring families

(32:07):
together through education and programs that areoffered. Okay, and you be access
at the step Hoodproject dot org.Is that where are access to at?
Okay? Well, Lisa, thankyou very much. I know just barely
touching the tip of iprey with yourstory, but I think the message I

(32:28):
would like the audience to have ishope. I mean, what we have
found out that chronic mental and physicalanalysts result from sustained stress, and healing
occurs in safety and there's nothing youhave to do. You have to It's
called I call it deep healing,where your body in safety physiology actually regenerates

(32:50):
and heals and sustained stress just breaksit down. So there's a bunch of
strategies to increase your time and safetyand decrease your time and threat. They're
both necessary every day, So youjust learn how to navigate what life more
easily, and your body really healsat a level you cannot imagine. So
Lisa, thank you and I'll makesure to find out your new projects on
the next podcast. I appreciate youspending some time today. Thank you.

(33:15):
I'd like to thank our guest Lisagood Pastor for being on the show today
and sharing her experience of being alienatedfrom her parents by her stepmother, how
she healed and the insights she gained. I'm your host, Tom Mesters,
reminding you to be back next weekfor another episode of Back in Control Radio
with Doctor David Hanscomb, and inthe meantime, be sure to visit the

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website at www dot back incontrol dotcom. Thanks for listening today and join
us next week for Back in ControlRadium