May 15, 2024 • 24 mins
In this episode, Dr. David Hanscom continues his discussion with Lisa Goodpaster, author, childhood trauma educator and founder of the Stephood Project. She explains how parental alienation happens following divorce when the mother and father are unable to co-parent. This can create extreme anger in the affected children and result in the formation of deep triggers that lead to negative patterns of behavior that can last a lifetime. She talks about the physical effects of stress on the body, such as skin rashes, panic attacks, and inflammation. She emphasizes the importance of understanding stress physiology and treating the physiological response to stress. She shares the steps in her healing journey, including the impact of childhood distress on her adult life and how understanding it helped her heal. Lisa Goodpaster is the founder of the Stephood Project, a childhood trauma educator and the author of Alienated: When Parents Won’t Parent. She was alienated from both her mother and father by her stepmother. Lisa’s ability to connect and inspire while creating a safe space for all who are struggling to understand children who have been alienated is unmatched. Lisa is also a motivational speaker helping all families and professionals understand the complex issues that arise in all families. Her ability to connect and help others understand the dangers of not co-parenting and the connection to parental alienation is creating a positive movement forward to help create change while clearing the path for other survivors to come forward. For more information, visit https://www.stephoodproject.org.
Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
Please note that all XZBN radio and/or television shows are Copyright © REL-MAR McConnell Meda Company, Niagara, Ontario, Canada – www.rel-mar.com. For more Episodes of this show and all shows produced, broadcasted and syndicated from REL-MAR McConell Media Company and The 'X' Zone Broadcast Network and the 'X' Zone TV Channell, visit www.xzbn.net. For programming, distribution, and syndication inquiries, email programming@xzbn.net.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Hello, and welcome to Back inControl Radio with Doctor David Hanscombe. Hello
everybody, and welcome to another episodeof Back in Control Radio with Doctor David
Hanscomb. I'm your host, TomMasters, and our guest today is Lisa
(00:24):
Goodpastor. She's a childhood trauma educator, a motivational speaker, and founder of
the step Hoood Project. She's alsothe author of Alienated When Parents Want Parent.
She helps families and professionals understand thecomplex issues that arise in all families
and has a unique ability to connectand inspire all who are struggling to understand
(00:47):
children who have been alienated. Welcome, Thank you, Tom. I like
to reintroduce Lisa good Pastor, whowe talked about last week about her childhood
and she has very unique insights intodivorce, stepparents, not feeling safe at
home, that being normalized, andher journey has been really dramatic and so
(01:11):
I think one of the things Igot out of her journey that anything's possible.
You come from a very tough background. You just have to be willing
to stay open to learning is theone key factor. So she is currently
a motivational speaker. She's written abook called Alienated when Parents Won't Parent.
She has services available through the stephooodproject dot org. And I was talking
(01:34):
to the first half hour and wecould talk forever. And so she has
a very deep, complex story.But Mama as a child, she just
didn't feel safe. And she talkedabout, you know, how she didn't
feel safe, why she didn't feelsafe. But we want to focus on
now is some of her insights andwhat she's offering the world now. Lisa,
thank you for coming back. Thankyou pleasure to be here. So
(01:57):
I'm trying to forgureut jumping off placefor the rest of the conversation because because
you have so much to offer theworld number one insights or was like never
to feel safe? But what weresome of the things that changed your trajectory?
Because you have severe chronic pain yourwhole body, et cetera. And
from our first conversation, you're notyou're not having too many symptoms anymore.
Is that correct? Correct? Okay? So what symptoms have result? Well,
(02:25):
I no longer get a joint pain, I no longer feel frozen like
I don't know, like sometimes Iused to not take any action. I
would just kind of stay in thatfond mode, like I don't want to
do anything this, this hurts toomuch, This is uncomfortable too. You
(02:47):
know, understanding my own internal world, my own feelings, my own process
really helps to to kind of justyou know, learning to really be safe
in my own body, learning toprovide safety for myself instead of always looking
(03:09):
around for it is. That wasa part of my process as well.
Well. We mentioned that it wascalled the Hoffin process, which I went
to in two thousand and nine andyou went to in twenty seventeen, and
we both discuss the fact that,so to me, healing occurs with connection.
That means connecting to everything, unpleasantemotions, pleasant emotions, You connect
(03:30):
with everything, and you came froma very angry, chaotic childhood. Well,
I've also learned, as you havelearned, that anger protects you from
feeling, and Hoffmin sort of blewthe cover off that. Can you briefly
describe the Hoffmann experience, where it'sat and what they do. Yeah,
So the Hoffmann process is like aseven day intensive retreat where you dive deep
(03:55):
into the family dynamics of your ownyou know, your own childhood and how
that plays out. And for me, you're faced with the truth. You
know who we are when we areangry, and who we are when where
are authentic selves? And just knowingthat and using the tools that we learned
(04:21):
are very helpful in moving forward soon. Yeah, well, you know I've
talked about the term is that youcan't fix your brain, you have to
rebuild it. That's called neuroplasticity.The sequence is awareness, separation, and
reprogramming. And you and I bothmentioned that hobbin is how a rud place
to start, which a wonderful placeto launch from. So I tell people
(04:43):
that it's a three dimensional version ofwhat I do. It's visualization is sematic
tools. It allows you to connectwith your anger at a very deep level.
By connecting to your anger, itstarts losing its career. And in
really quick terms, I was veryangry about what was happening in medicine.
I decided to channel the anger intodoing something good, which sounds great,
(05:08):
except the driving force is anger.As you blast through it, the driving
force turns to love, the opposite, and love is sustainable. Anger is
not. Is that a fair statement? Absolutely? So what happens is sort
of there. So it takes aboutfive years. It jumps you head about
five years. I mean again,not a just starting place. It's not
(05:28):
a good ending place, but thisis a great launch pad for moving forward.
But anyway, the process is presentedon my website, presented my books.
I know you also work with it, and it gains one tool amongst
many that help people heal. Sowhat I like to focus on in this
podcast is that the last two orthree years of my practice, I realized
(05:48):
that people get better, they woulddo really well, they go back to
their family reunions or whatever, andthey go right back into pain badly,
just as bad as they ever were. Mostly want to come back out of
it. But I somehow realized thatthese family patterns actually were huge triers for
pain. So I like you explainyour experience with that particular dynamic. Okay,
(06:13):
well, before just your audience remembers, I was kind of hijacked from
my parents, right and so,and it took over forty years to untangle
that all. And so there aremany times, and that is so true,
I would go in and out afamily, you know, always always
(06:33):
stressed out, always visiting around myfamily and just nervous, and it became
the norm, right, you didn'tknow, so after finding out what happened
and then launching from the Hoffman processdoing the work, and it was what
(06:55):
helped was the truth was that Ihad been hijacked. The fact that my
whole family realizing and accepting and lovingme through it was so important because now
when I because I used to jokearound and go, you know, every
(07:16):
every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, everyholiday, trigger trigger, trigger, just
all the time. So now it'slike I already bought my mom's Mother's Day
card. That was like I wouldwait till the last second to buy a
Mother's Day card. So what itis is you really you go through it.
(07:38):
I was. I allowed my familyin. I allowed my parents into
my pain. I allowed them tosee this is what I went through.
I think for my parents, andyou know they're they're in their seventies,
which is still young, but Icommend them for just their faces, the
(08:03):
tears, the shame that they feltfor me. You know, I'm a
parent, and I think it isa combination of love, compassion, and
also just knowing that these are myparents and I'm not going to have them
forever. And now that I knowthe truth, you see things differently.
(08:24):
Well, I mean, my processis that people do the best they can
do with what they have. Imean, nobody wants to treat their kids'
ballet and nobody wants Everybody wants tohave a happy, peaceful life. But
if you have no tools, youhave no choice, right, And so
the problem is your family patterns.So what happens your behaviors and reaction program
(08:46):
in by your family who paraosually tryingto be the biggest triggers. So was
irn boy the human existence. Wewant to be with their families because they're
close. At the same time theytreer us pretty darn belly. Yes,
So again the last years of mypractice, we found out the family well
one of the greatest forces pulling peopleinto the hole, but it could be
equally as powerful pulling people out ofthe hole. And like just one.
(09:07):
So again, anger protects you andwe don't like to be vulnerable, and
so to be open and vulnerable iswhat love is. But people can't tolerate
that, so they stay angry.So it is you can't just drop it.
Positive thinking does not work. Youhave to learn how to calm yourself
(09:28):
down. So I want to jumpahead to now, I mean, I
know you've gone through massive transition.So just be clear if you had a
lot of unpleasant symptoms that are prettymuch gone, I have that correct,
right right right, And it didn'thappen overnight. And I always talk in
terms of, you know, theskills it takes repetitively to learn. So
(09:50):
to me, the focus is onlife skills, not fixing your pain.
Is that a fair statement? Yes? So? And then I know you
worked with my process us a bitthe Back of Control in the doc journey,
and you point out that that hassome impact on what you're doing.
Oh for sure. I just reallyunderstanding what anxiety is and what it isn't
(10:11):
huh, really really like taking thatin and like, Okay, this is
my body, not my mind.It's my body, not my mind.
And when you understand the way youryour body works and that and not from
a like emotional level like like ohmy god, I had anxiety, it's
(10:31):
like, okay, what is goingon here? This is what reality am
I in that That's what it feltlike the last like five years of going
through this. So really understanding wellwhich happened in my world when I wrote
my book Back in Control in twentysixteen, it's my story. The basic
fundational concepts are really helpful. ButI did not understand the physiology of anxiety
(10:54):
and pain until twenty twenty twenty.Wow, because I just learned. If
we have an international work group thathas pointed out that all chronic disease,
mental and physical anxiety, depression bypolar OCD, and sketchophrenat are are all
inflammatory me of all physiological disorders,they are not psychological. Your brain's on
(11:16):
fire in short circuits. Ye,the same thing with Alzheimer's demension, cardiac
disease, hypertension, cancer, obesee, all these things are actually inflammatory disorders.
They're all the same thing. Soby calm down the physiology, which
is much stronger than your conscious brain, people actually heal. And as you
are a testimony, people healed alevel they just didn't even know as possible.
(11:37):
Right, So the think about yourreality now compared to ten years ago,
Oh my god, yeah, Iyou know when it was so funny
when we talked about before how Ialmost like had to figure out my identity
around my anger because I couldn't figureout like why I was always so angry.
(11:58):
It didn't make sense to me,so letting go. There was a
lot of letting go, letting goof the past, letting go of what
I lost with my parents, lettingthat all go. And there is when
when you when you really let goand you want to let go, like
I wanted to let go. Andso that was massive, was letting go
(12:24):
of all that anger and all ofthat hate that you know, I anybody
could say, you could be madforever. It's it's very My book is
very arm. It's a hard readfor some parents because they don't want this
to happen to their kids, right, So letting go of that anger allowed
(12:48):
space for me to actually see myparents in the now and see their good
side there They didn't know, Sothere's a lot of compassion, a lot
of forgiveness that was essential. Andjust to be clear for the audience,
anxiety isation generated when you're in fightor flight. So you threatens you,
(13:09):
you feel anxious. That is nota psychological diagnosis. If you can't solve
the problem. In other words,you're trapped by kicks. In a different
chemical response, you become angry.So anger and anxiety are the same physiological
response, just varies an intensity.The trouble with anger is also as dopamine
in it it feels powerful, Itis powerful, and it's addicting. People
(13:31):
do not want to give it up. But the biggest problem we have is
that anger also takes away the bloodsupplies to your frontal lobe of your brain.
You can't you actually cannot access yourthinking centers when you're angry, so
you aren't thinking clearly, and sothat's actually blocks people opening up to intervene.
So what do you think? Obviouslylots of and the other thing is
(13:52):
more justifiable justified your anger the heartit is to give it up. So
what helped you break through that barrier? I think you're it was. It
was a lot of things, tobe honest, but the biggest, UH
(14:13):
was was that as long as Istayed angry, I I wasn't living.
I was staying angry. I wasstill being a victor, being her victim,
being my right. Also I hadto learn that, Uh it's funny,
(14:35):
but uh, because anger, youdo feel powerful. And I remember,
especially in some of the classes thatthat we teach, uh, when
you're when you're angry, you're stillin victim even though you don't feel like
it. And a lot of thethings that a lot of the questions they
asked former alienating kids is like,you know, you suffer from low self
(14:58):
esteem, and I was so angryI would have told you off and said
now, uh, because my angermade me feel like I had self esteem,
So it was so off. So, like I said, it was
definitely realizing that letting go and acceptingaccepting like, Okay, you get tired
(15:20):
of fighting too, you get tiredof the of the I got tired of
the something was something aloud. Soevery person that heals, by the way,
this is why I quit. Mypractice is always always around anger.
People cannot unless you're wanting to processthe echo of something or everything how much
(15:41):
every day? I mean, there'sthings that make you angry every day.
So but I have not seen anybodyreally heal and still hold onto their anger.
You know what. The biggest thing, David, and and I think
no one's really asking this question isthis is a very raw question. This
is really good. Okay, Soletting go I also had to do.
(16:03):
I was on this journey like Ihad to like let go. I I
moved four times in like four years, just trying to figure out while trying
to write the book, while tryingyou know, while going through the divorce,
and you're really when you're alone likethat, you know, you're really
faced with yourself, right and seeingyou know, my son at the time
(16:26):
when this all opened up, hewas twenty five. He's thirty one now
and just you know, that wasmy past. This is my now.
And I when you write when itcame from like I think an internal and
I've always had this like this,this drive like I am not what this
(16:48):
lady painted me out to be.And so all that anger, when you
let go, there was freedom.There was like oh I can't. Yeah
right, that's what happened to me. I did not do my anger processing
very well, affected it very badly, But I got through. If I
(17:11):
had admit that I was a victim, I didn't. I didn't like I
was like you I was. Angerwas so normal that I didn't know what
anger was. I did not recognizeit. And of course, for me,
the most pernicious form of anger wasa self critical voice of perfectionism,
which is very angry, very deadly. It doesn't stop. Yeah. So
again, you can't just do withpositive thinking it mind ever matter, because
(17:32):
the physiology is so much stronger thanyour conscious brain. So I want to
jump to the last part of thepodcast to your life. Now you're feeling
better, yes, said dynamic processthat doesn't have a beginning or end of
it. So you founded this stepfood project. And I'll try to punctuate
this a little bit and say thatyou cannot expect your kids to be less
(17:52):
stressed than you are. It's calledcorregulation, miror neurons. And so,
what are some things you offer toschools? Come to you parents? Kids?
I mean, who who comes totalk about your services? Parents?
A lot of parents, A lotof kids they're eighteen and older, and
(18:17):
the parents are really really stuck inthe way that you and I have been
stuck. And when you're and youknow, I'm a parent, so I
can't imagine it's very hard to beable to even explain to parents because they're
(18:37):
they're so angry, very justified,and so because they have the family courts
on them, they're spending all thismoney. They are fearful because they're hearing
all these things that you and otherdoctors, you know, very prominent doctors
know about the mind and body.And when you're when you're a parent and
(19:00):
you're in that state of fear andworried for your kid, it's really hard
to get them to to slow down. So I really try to uh comfort
them, let them know that whatworked for me and what what helped was
uh my own parents understanding uh myjourney that that is really healing for their
(19:26):
child when they do relate. Sodo you offer a course to them,
do you counsel on what sort ofthings do you do through your I do
have a course coming up for forfamilies that are going into family courts to
help them understand, and that's onmy website. And right now we're working.
(19:48):
I'm working with hope and darkness andthey offer hope and darkness or cope,
hope, hope and darkness, Hopeand darkness, yes, And so
their whole theory is on attachment,okay, attachment theory. And so we
work with parents and their kids andwe help restore that connection. And surprisingly
(20:15):
when that, just like you said, when the kids start to feel safe,
it'd be surprised how quickly that reconnectiontakes place. It's it's quite it's
quite beautiful to see that. Yeah, And as you know, I quit
my practice to do this because whenhealing occurs, it's not a self help
process. It's a deep healing process. Your body's physically changed. And again,
(20:41):
have you seen my metaphor of connection, competence, and creativity the tree
metaphor. Yes, healing occurs withconnection everything. And so the metaphor is
the root of a tree in thesoil. The soil be in your past
and you have to connect with allof it, which is tough. So
the trunk of the tree is theconfidence of the tools you use to sort
of be with your past, notto process it, not to get rid
(21:03):
of it, not to whitewash it. The healing actually curs the creativity at
the top of the tree, developingyour brain away from the pain circuits,
right, and so that's sort ofthe process that evolved in our minds.
So anyway, do you have asort of a final overall message to give
to our audience today. Yeah,you know, no matter where you're at,
(21:26):
if you are in a parent that'sestranged or alienated, your kids love
you and they need you. Whatthey what they want is they want to
feel seen, heard, safe,And they don't want they don't they don't
want the judgment. They want thelove. And your kids go about it
(21:48):
in all the wrong ways, justlike parents go all the wrong ways to
love our love our kids. Soonce once parents and understand that your kids
love you. They are just reactingfrom the way that they were brought up.
There's no judgment. When you createa safe space, it helps.
(22:11):
Well. You know, one ofthe cardinal rules of my project is no
discussing medical care, no discussion yourpain, no giving unasked for advice,
no criticism, no gossip pain,no complaining. And you know parents criticize
their kids a lot. To stop, to stop, and because what happens
(22:32):
if you go in a negative mode, You go into threat physiology and make
everybody sick. And so people lookingat me and go, well, what
do I talk about? But noneof us think about this? How many
of us like unasked for advice?None of us, especially your kids.
But what are parents do, includingmyself, We give our kids unasked for
advice. So I wrote a columnand say, look, no criticizing,
(22:59):
just listen. Only listen for amonths, do nothing but listen. And
you're right. It's remarkable what happensin that environment because they kids feel heard
and they feel safe, and that'sthe essence of parenting. So Lisha want
to just summarize what you have writtenin How to Get a hold of You.
Yeah. So again, my bookis called Alienated when Parents Won't Parent,
(23:23):
and it is the book that youknow what parents should never do when
going through a high conflict divorce.We divorce happens. If you have to
get divorced, make sure that yourchild's attachment to both their parents is solid.
They're going to depend on that forthe rest of their lives. Right,
(23:45):
and you can find me uh stepthe Project dark dot org, uh
Lisa good Pastor on Instagram, Facebookand TikTok Okay. Yeah, well again,
thank you very much, ma ekexcitedabout the work you're doing and I'm
looking forward to staying in touch.Yeah, and I'm glad. I'm glad
(24:07):
you're feeling better. Me too,Thank you. I'd like to thank our
guest Lisa good Pastor for being onthe show today and discussing what she learned
from her healing journey and how sheapplies that in her work. Today.
I'm your host, Tom Masters,reminding you to be back next week for
another episode of Back in Control Radiowith Doctor David Hanscombe, and in the
(24:30):
meantime, be sure to visit thewebsite at www dot backincontrol dot com.
Thanks for listening today and join usnext week for Back in Control Radiu
Hello, and welcome to Back inControl Radio with Doctor David Hanscombe. Hello
everybody, and welcome to another episodeof Back in Control Radio with Doctor David
Hanscomb. I'm your host, TomMasters, and our guest today is Lisa
(00:24):
Goodpastor. She's a childhood trauma educator, a motivational speaker, and founder of
the step Hoood Project. She's alsothe author of Alienated When Parents Want Parent.
She helps families and professionals understand thecomplex issues that arise in all families
and has a unique ability to connectand inspire all who are struggling to understand
(00:47):
children who have been alienated. Welcome, Thank you, Tom. I like
to reintroduce Lisa good Pastor, whowe talked about last week about her childhood
and she has very unique insights intodivorce, stepparents, not feeling safe at
home, that being normalized, andher journey has been really dramatic and so
(01:11):
I think one of the things Igot out of her journey that anything's possible.
You come from a very tough background. You just have to be willing
to stay open to learning is theone key factor. So she is currently
a motivational speaker. She's written abook called Alienated when Parents Won't Parent.
She has services available through the stephooodproject dot org. And I was talking
(01:34):
to the first half hour and wecould talk forever. And so she has
a very deep, complex story.But Mama as a child, she just
didn't feel safe. And she talkedabout, you know, how she didn't
feel safe, why she didn't feelsafe. But we want to focus on
now is some of her insights andwhat she's offering the world now. Lisa,
thank you for coming back. Thankyou pleasure to be here. So
(01:57):
I'm trying to forgureut jumping off placefor the rest of the conversation because because
you have so much to offer theworld number one insights or was like never
to feel safe? But what weresome of the things that changed your trajectory?
Because you have severe chronic pain yourwhole body, et cetera. And
from our first conversation, you're notyou're not having too many symptoms anymore.
Is that correct? Correct? Okay? So what symptoms have result? Well,
(02:25):
I no longer get a joint pain, I no longer feel frozen like
I don't know, like sometimes Iused to not take any action. I
would just kind of stay in thatfond mode, like I don't want to
do anything this, this hurts toomuch, This is uncomfortable too. You
(02:47):
know, understanding my own internal world, my own feelings, my own process
really helps to to kind of justyou know, learning to really be safe
in my own body, learning toprovide safety for myself instead of always looking
(03:09):
around for it is. That wasa part of my process as well.
Well. We mentioned that it wascalled the Hoffin process, which I went
to in two thousand and nine andyou went to in twenty seventeen, and
we both discuss the fact that,so to me, healing occurs with connection.
That means connecting to everything, unpleasantemotions, pleasant emotions, You connect
(03:30):
with everything, and you came froma very angry, chaotic childhood. Well,
I've also learned, as you havelearned, that anger protects you from
feeling, and Hoffmin sort of blewthe cover off that. Can you briefly
describe the Hoffmann experience, where it'sat and what they do. Yeah,
So the Hoffmann process is like aseven day intensive retreat where you dive deep
(03:55):
into the family dynamics of your ownyou know, your own childhood and how
that plays out. And for me, you're faced with the truth. You
know who we are when we areangry, and who we are when where
are authentic selves? And just knowingthat and using the tools that we learned
(04:21):
are very helpful in moving forward soon. Yeah, well, you know I've
talked about the term is that youcan't fix your brain, you have to
rebuild it. That's called neuroplasticity.The sequence is awareness, separation, and
reprogramming. And you and I bothmentioned that hobbin is how a rud place
to start, which a wonderful placeto launch from. So I tell people
(04:43):
that it's a three dimensional version ofwhat I do. It's visualization is sematic
tools. It allows you to connectwith your anger at a very deep level.
By connecting to your anger, itstarts losing its career. And in
really quick terms, I was veryangry about what was happening in medicine.
I decided to channel the anger intodoing something good, which sounds great,
(05:08):
except the driving force is anger.As you blast through it, the driving
force turns to love, the opposite, and love is sustainable. Anger is
not. Is that a fair statement? Absolutely? So what happens is sort
of there. So it takes aboutfive years. It jumps you head about
five years. I mean again,not a just starting place. It's not
(05:28):
a good ending place, but thisis a great launch pad for moving forward.
But anyway, the process is presentedon my website, presented my books.
I know you also work with it, and it gains one tool amongst
many that help people heal. Sowhat I like to focus on in this
podcast is that the last two orthree years of my practice, I realized
(05:48):
that people get better, they woulddo really well, they go back to
their family reunions or whatever, andthey go right back into pain badly,
just as bad as they ever were. Mostly want to come back out of
it. But I somehow realized thatthese family patterns actually were huge triers for
pain. So I like you explainyour experience with that particular dynamic. Okay,
(06:13):
well, before just your audience remembers, I was kind of hijacked from
my parents, right and so,and it took over forty years to untangle
that all. And so there aremany times, and that is so true,
I would go in and out afamily, you know, always always
(06:33):
stressed out, always visiting around myfamily and just nervous, and it became
the norm, right, you didn'tknow, so after finding out what happened
and then launching from the Hoffman processdoing the work, and it was what
(06:55):
helped was the truth was that Ihad been hijacked. The fact that my
whole family realizing and accepting and lovingme through it was so important because now
when I because I used to jokearound and go, you know, every
(07:16):
every Christmas, every Thanksgiving, everyholiday, trigger trigger, trigger, just
all the time. So now it'slike I already bought my mom's Mother's Day
card. That was like I wouldwait till the last second to buy a
Mother's Day card. So what itis is you really you go through it.
(07:38):
I was. I allowed my familyin. I allowed my parents into
my pain. I allowed them tosee this is what I went through.
I think for my parents, andyou know they're they're in their seventies,
which is still young, but Icommend them for just their faces, the
(08:03):
tears, the shame that they feltfor me. You know, I'm a
parent, and I think it isa combination of love, compassion, and
also just knowing that these are myparents and I'm not going to have them
forever. And now that I knowthe truth, you see things differently.
(08:24):
Well, I mean, my processis that people do the best they can
do with what they have. Imean, nobody wants to treat their kids'
ballet and nobody wants Everybody wants tohave a happy, peaceful life. But
if you have no tools, youhave no choice, right, And so
the problem is your family patterns.So what happens your behaviors and reaction program
(08:46):
in by your family who paraosually tryingto be the biggest triggers. So was
irn boy the human existence. Wewant to be with their families because they're
close. At the same time theytreer us pretty darn belly. Yes,
So again the last years of mypractice, we found out the family well
one of the greatest forces pulling peopleinto the hole, but it could be
equally as powerful pulling people out ofthe hole. And like just one.
(09:07):
So again, anger protects you andwe don't like to be vulnerable, and
so to be open and vulnerable iswhat love is. But people can't tolerate
that, so they stay angry.So it is you can't just drop it.
Positive thinking does not work. Youhave to learn how to calm yourself
(09:28):
down. So I want to jumpahead to now, I mean, I
know you've gone through massive transition.So just be clear if you had a
lot of unpleasant symptoms that are prettymuch gone, I have that correct,
right right right, And it didn'thappen overnight. And I always talk in
terms of, you know, theskills it takes repetitively to learn. So
(09:50):
to me, the focus is onlife skills, not fixing your pain.
Is that a fair statement? Yes? So? And then I know you
worked with my process us a bitthe Back of Control in the doc journey,
and you point out that that hassome impact on what you're doing.
Oh for sure. I just reallyunderstanding what anxiety is and what it isn't
(10:11):
huh, really really like taking thatin and like, Okay, this is
my body, not my mind.It's my body, not my mind.
And when you understand the way youryour body works and that and not from
a like emotional level like like ohmy god, I had anxiety, it's
(10:31):
like, okay, what is goingon here? This is what reality am
I in that That's what it feltlike the last like five years of going
through this. So really understanding wellwhich happened in my world when I wrote
my book Back in Control in twentysixteen, it's my story. The basic
fundational concepts are really helpful. ButI did not understand the physiology of anxiety
(10:54):
and pain until twenty twenty twenty.Wow, because I just learned. If
we have an international work group thathas pointed out that all chronic disease,
mental and physical anxiety, depression bypolar OCD, and sketchophrenat are are all
inflammatory me of all physiological disorders,they are not psychological. Your brain's on
(11:16):
fire in short circuits. Ye,the same thing with Alzheimer's demension, cardiac
disease, hypertension, cancer, obesee, all these things are actually inflammatory disorders.
They're all the same thing. Soby calm down the physiology, which
is much stronger than your conscious brain, people actually heal. And as you
are a testimony, people healed alevel they just didn't even know as possible.
(11:37):
Right, So the think about yourreality now compared to ten years ago,
Oh my god, yeah, Iyou know when it was so funny
when we talked about before how Ialmost like had to figure out my identity
around my anger because I couldn't figureout like why I was always so angry.
(11:58):
It didn't make sense to me,so letting go. There was a
lot of letting go, letting goof the past, letting go of what
I lost with my parents, lettingthat all go. And there is when
when you when you really let goand you want to let go, like
I wanted to let go. Andso that was massive, was letting go
(12:24):
of all that anger and all ofthat hate that you know, I anybody
could say, you could be madforever. It's it's very My book is
very arm. It's a hard readfor some parents because they don't want this
to happen to their kids, right, So letting go of that anger allowed
(12:48):
space for me to actually see myparents in the now and see their good
side there They didn't know, Sothere's a lot of compassion, a lot
of forgiveness that was essential. Andjust to be clear for the audience,
anxiety isation generated when you're in fightor flight. So you threatens you,
(13:09):
you feel anxious. That is nota psychological diagnosis. If you can't solve
the problem. In other words,you're trapped by kicks. In a different
chemical response, you become angry.So anger and anxiety are the same physiological
response, just varies an intensity.The trouble with anger is also as dopamine
in it it feels powerful, Itis powerful, and it's addicting. People
(13:31):
do not want to give it up. But the biggest problem we have is
that anger also takes away the bloodsupplies to your frontal lobe of your brain.
You can't you actually cannot access yourthinking centers when you're angry, so
you aren't thinking clearly, and sothat's actually blocks people opening up to intervene.
So what do you think? Obviouslylots of and the other thing is
(13:52):
more justifiable justified your anger the heartit is to give it up. So
what helped you break through that barrier? I think you're it was. It
was a lot of things, tobe honest, but the biggest, UH
(14:13):
was was that as long as Istayed angry, I I wasn't living.
I was staying angry. I wasstill being a victor, being her victim,
being my right. Also I hadto learn that, Uh it's funny,
(14:35):
but uh, because anger, youdo feel powerful. And I remember,
especially in some of the classes thatthat we teach, uh, when
you're when you're angry, you're stillin victim even though you don't feel like
it. And a lot of thethings that a lot of the questions they
asked former alienating kids is like,you know, you suffer from low self
(14:58):
esteem, and I was so angryI would have told you off and said
now, uh, because my angermade me feel like I had self esteem,
So it was so off. So, like I said, it was
definitely realizing that letting go and acceptingaccepting like, Okay, you get tired
(15:20):
of fighting too, you get tiredof the of the I got tired of
the something was something aloud. Soevery person that heals, by the way,
this is why I quit. Mypractice is always always around anger.
People cannot unless you're wanting to processthe echo of something or everything how much
(15:41):
every day? I mean, there'sthings that make you angry every day.
So but I have not seen anybodyreally heal and still hold onto their anger.
You know what. The biggest thing, David, and and I think
no one's really asking this question isthis is a very raw question. This
is really good. Okay, Soletting go I also had to do.
(16:03):
I was on this journey like Ihad to like let go. I I
moved four times in like four years, just trying to figure out while trying
to write the book, while tryingyou know, while going through the divorce,
and you're really when you're alone likethat, you know, you're really
faced with yourself, right and seeingyou know, my son at the time
(16:26):
when this all opened up, hewas twenty five. He's thirty one now
and just you know, that wasmy past. This is my now.
And I when you write when itcame from like I think an internal and
I've always had this like this,this drive like I am not what this
(16:48):
lady painted me out to be.And so all that anger, when you
let go, there was freedom.There was like oh I can't. Yeah
right, that's what happened to me. I did not do my anger processing
very well, affected it very badly, But I got through. If I
(17:11):
had admit that I was a victim, I didn't. I didn't like I
was like you I was. Angerwas so normal that I didn't know what
anger was. I did not recognizeit. And of course, for me,
the most pernicious form of anger wasa self critical voice of perfectionism,
which is very angry, very deadly. It doesn't stop. Yeah. So
again, you can't just do withpositive thinking it mind ever matter, because
(17:32):
the physiology is so much stronger thanyour conscious brain. So I want to
jump to the last part of thepodcast to your life. Now you're feeling
better, yes, said dynamic processthat doesn't have a beginning or end of
it. So you founded this stepfood project. And I'll try to punctuate
this a little bit and say thatyou cannot expect your kids to be less
(17:52):
stressed than you are. It's calledcorregulation, miror neurons. And so,
what are some things you offer toschools? Come to you parents? Kids?
I mean, who who comes totalk about your services? Parents?
A lot of parents, A lotof kids they're eighteen and older, and
(18:17):
the parents are really really stuck inthe way that you and I have been
stuck. And when you're and youknow, I'm a parent, so I
can't imagine it's very hard to beable to even explain to parents because they're
(18:37):
they're so angry, very justified,and so because they have the family courts
on them, they're spending all thismoney. They are fearful because they're hearing
all these things that you and otherdoctors, you know, very prominent doctors
know about the mind and body.And when you're when you're a parent and
(19:00):
you're in that state of fear andworried for your kid, it's really hard
to get them to to slow down. So I really try to uh comfort
them, let them know that whatworked for me and what what helped was
uh my own parents understanding uh myjourney that that is really healing for their
(19:26):
child when they do relate. Sodo you offer a course to them,
do you counsel on what sort ofthings do you do through your I do
have a course coming up for forfamilies that are going into family courts to
help them understand, and that's onmy website. And right now we're working.
(19:48):
I'm working with hope and darkness andthey offer hope and darkness or cope,
hope, hope and darkness, Hopeand darkness, yes, And so
their whole theory is on attachment,okay, attachment theory. And so we
work with parents and their kids andwe help restore that connection. And surprisingly
(20:15):
when that, just like you said, when the kids start to feel safe,
it'd be surprised how quickly that reconnectiontakes place. It's it's quite it's
quite beautiful to see that. Yeah, And as you know, I quit
my practice to do this because whenhealing occurs, it's not a self help
process. It's a deep healing process. Your body's physically changed. And again,
(20:41):
have you seen my metaphor of connection, competence, and creativity the tree
metaphor. Yes, healing occurs withconnection everything. And so the metaphor is
the root of a tree in thesoil. The soil be in your past
and you have to connect with allof it, which is tough. So
the trunk of the tree is theconfidence of the tools you use to sort
of be with your past, notto process it, not to get rid
(21:03):
of it, not to whitewash it. The healing actually curs the creativity at
the top of the tree, developingyour brain away from the pain circuits,
right, and so that's sort ofthe process that evolved in our minds.
So anyway, do you have asort of a final overall message to give
to our audience today. Yeah,you know, no matter where you're at,
(21:26):
if you are in a parent that'sestranged or alienated, your kids love
you and they need you. Whatthey what they want is they want to
feel seen, heard, safe,And they don't want they don't they don't
want the judgment. They want thelove. And your kids go about it
(21:48):
in all the wrong ways, justlike parents go all the wrong ways to
love our love our kids. Soonce once parents and understand that your kids
love you. They are just reactingfrom the way that they were brought up.
There's no judgment. When you createa safe space, it helps.
(22:11):
Well. You know, one ofthe cardinal rules of my project is no
discussing medical care, no discussion yourpain, no giving unasked for advice,
no criticism, no gossip pain,no complaining. And you know parents criticize
their kids a lot. To stop, to stop, and because what happens
(22:32):
if you go in a negative mode, You go into threat physiology and make
everybody sick. And so people lookingat me and go, well, what
do I talk about? But noneof us think about this? How many
of us like unasked for advice?None of us, especially your kids.
But what are parents do, includingmyself, We give our kids unasked for
advice. So I wrote a columnand say, look, no criticizing,
(22:59):
just listen. Only listen for amonths, do nothing but listen. And
you're right. It's remarkable what happensin that environment because they kids feel heard
and they feel safe, and that'sthe essence of parenting. So Lisha want
to just summarize what you have writtenin How to Get a hold of You.
Yeah. So again, my bookis called Alienated when Parents Won't Parent,
(23:23):
and it is the book that youknow what parents should never do when
going through a high conflict divorce.We divorce happens. If you have to
get divorced, make sure that yourchild's attachment to both their parents is solid.
They're going to depend on that forthe rest of their lives. Right,
(23:45):
and you can find me uh stepthe Project dark dot org, uh
Lisa good Pastor on Instagram, Facebookand TikTok Okay. Yeah, well again,
thank you very much, ma ekexcitedabout the work you're doing and I'm
looking forward to staying in touch.Yeah, and I'm glad. I'm glad
(24:07):
you're feeling better. Me too,Thank you. I'd like to thank our
guest Lisa good Pastor for being onthe show today and discussing what she learned
from her healing journey and how sheapplies that in her work. Today.
I'm your host, Tom Masters,reminding you to be back next week for
another episode of Back in Control Radiowith Doctor David Hanscombe, and in the
(24:30):
meantime, be sure to visit thewebsite at www dot backincontrol dot com.
Thanks for listening today and join usnext week for Back in Control Radiu
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