Surviving Abuse: Tom Stewart's Journey Through Pain and Healing...

Dr. Troy Munson interviews Thomas Gregory Stewart a survivor of severe childhood abuse and a former Boy Scout victim who fought a groundbreaking legal battle against the Boy Scouts of America. He grew up in Dash Point, Washington, amidst significant family dysfunction, and later pursued a career as a chemical engineer with Boeing, working on eliminating carcinogens from their materials. Alongside his brother, Thomas embarked on a journey to seek justice for himself and many other abused scouts, becoming a formidable advocate for child abuse prevention and recovery. He authored the book "On Wings Like Eagles," chronicling his story and experiences.
In this gripping episode, Thomas Gregory Stewart, whose journey from a difficult childhood to a courageous courtroom battle is inspiring. Thomas endured sexual abuse at the hands of a trusted family acquaintance associated with the Boy Scouts. His story reveals the harrowing reality of childhood abuse and the systemic failures that allow such atrocities to happen. Detailing his upbringing and the family dynamics that obscured the abuse, Thomas talks candidly about the psychological and emotional impact of his experiences.

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 Dr. Troy Munson explores the intricate relationship between desire, thought, and personal fulfillment. With a reflective tone, Dr. Troy engages the audience in a conversation that challenges conventional perceptions of fantasizing and arousal, presenting them as inherent aspects of human nature that drive our actions and emotions. He suggests that by understanding and contemplating these urges, one can attain a deeper sense of peace and enlightenment. Dr. Troy emphasizes the importance of distinguishing between beneficial and harmful desires. Touching on spiritual ideologies and the concept of letting go, he urges listeners to question their thoughts and contemplate them to unearth underlying truths. By rejecting negative fantasies and understanding the nature of arousal, individuals can move towards a state of inner tranquility. Dr. Troy's message is clear: to experience true joy and contentment, one must transcend the superficial allure of desires and uncover the boundless possibilities of a mind liberated from illusions.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
You're now listening to Words of Radiance with doctor Troy Munson.
Hello and welcome.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
I'm doctor Troy Munson and this is an interview I've
been waiting to do for a long time. And I've
known Tom for now a couple of years, and we've
we've been through a lot together.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
We've experienced a lot together.

Speaker 2 (00:25):
He obviously has been through a bunch in his lifetime
and I want to let him kind of tell his story,
and so let's let's dive into it.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Tom, you want to introduce yourself, Yes, thank you so
much for having me. I'm Thomas Gregory Stewart and we're
here to really dive into a tough story. People go
through a lot of things in their life, and you have.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
You've gone through your share, and we'd like to say
that you don't have to do any more of that.

Speaker 1 (00:52):
But I don't know what God has for you, but we're.

Speaker 2 (00:54):
Gonna find out as time unfolds. But for you, let's
start kind of where me it all began.

Speaker 1 (01:01):
Where'd you grow up? If you want to divulge that, sure,
I grew up in Dashpoint, Washington. It was a beautiful
house on the outside half acre lot of overlooking Puget Sound.
I would say, inside it was an insane asynd. No
friends were ever allowed over. My mom was mentally unstable.

(01:25):
My dad was an absent workaholic. For the most part,
we were loved for basically what we could do, not
who we were as people, and so we were starving
for the right kind of love and attention. As it
turns out, it was an ideal home setting for a

(01:46):
pedophile to come in and sexually abuse Matt and I.
Our neighbor Bruce Phelps, who lived down the hill. I
met him when I was six or so he was sixteen.
We were involved in boy Scouts and he began grooming
me by playing games and just various activities. He pretty

(02:12):
much earned my parents' trust. He was, I believe, the
only person that was ever allowed in our house except
for an occasional relative, so he really had the trust
of my mom. In particular, my mom was dominant, and
there was severe consequences to say no to my mom

(02:33):
were we had our mouths washed out with laundry soap,
and we were locked out of the house, no dinner.
I would say, you know, there was a tremendous amount
of verbal and emotional abuse in particular for my mom,
my dad was absent most of the time.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
If I made any idea why she would do that,
I mean, was there a lot of pain in her
own childhood.

Speaker 1 (02:58):
So both my parents parents were only children, and I
would not recommend that's kind of a job, but not
recommend having an only child. But you know, honestly, they
both had traumatic events in their lives when they were
about thirteen, I think they were teenagers and my mom's

(03:20):
mother died and she had a very strict dad. And
then my dad his mom was mentally ill and she
was admitted to Western State when he was about thirteen.
So I think their lives were kind of defined by
that traumatic moment in their life and for whatever reason.

(03:41):
And also according to my dad, my mom kind of
went crazy after she had USA. That she was, you know,
fairly normal, she was a nurse and fairly normal before childbirth,
but childbirth seemed to send her into a tailspin. Wow.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
And at this point, so we have a dad not
there kind of and a mom doing all the raising. Yes,
And so then Bruce comes along, I believe, yes. And
so you were in boy Scouts from one time on,
so initially, you know, I was in Cub Scouts. That's

(04:23):
when I was and it's called it.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
You know, Bruce was part of the boy Scout troupe
at the time actually, so he was helping out with
cup Scouts and it's called a den chief. And so yeah,
from the age of about eight, when I was in
Cub Scouts, that's when the abuse began. And without you know,
being too graphic, you know, that was pretty much you know,

(04:47):
when my child when you know, I was losing my childhood,
you know, because of Bruce. So it started when I
was about eight, you know, the sexual abuse, and then
when I was eleven, I joined Boy Scouts. Bruce, you know,
promised to take me all the way to Eagle Scout,

(05:08):
you know the merit badges that we earned, you know, fishing, swimming, camping.
You know, I was sexually abused multiple times, you know,
for each one of those merit badges. It was like
that was that was the cost of earning that merit badge.
And it's interesting. My parents were, especially my mom, were

(05:29):
super protective, but they just it was right underneath their nose.
They had no idea. I mean, there were times that
we were sexually abused. Well in the basement of our
parents' house with their parents upstairs. And it was that.
I mean, he was, you know, that good at hiding

(05:52):
things and basically, you know, he said he would kill us.
He would kill me. You know this more emotional. They
thought doing it this way, he would kill my family
if I ever told anyone. So I think we were conditioned.
You didn't say no to authority because of my mom. Sure,

(06:12):
so you know, you wouldn't dare say no to a
boy Scout leader. And boy Scouts is very unique, and
I think because my dad was kind of absent. My
dad was an Eagle Scout, but he was not really
part of the activities because he was at work and
had a really difficult time dealing with my mom. So
Bruce kind of became a father figure, even though kind

(06:33):
of like an older brother because he was only ten
years older, but really a father figure in some ways.
And so it becomes very dangerous. You know. That's one
of the biggest dangers of Boy Scouts is Scout masters
are like God, and especially for boys that don't have,
you know, a male role model, they really and because

(06:56):
boy Scouts is year round, I mean, it's the most
intensive of you know, non school activity there is sure.
And so you're with your scout master a lot, especially
in boy scouts, you know, going on campouts, and you're
out in the woods and you're in the middle of nowhere,
and so things can get very dangerous, very fast. And

(07:18):
so you know, with Bruce and I was actually abused
at gunpoint, you know, at times, and you know, once
again he said he would kill my family and that
was enough of a threat. Sure, you know, of course,
and we've been conditioned. The ironic thing is that Matt
and I are you know, pretty big. A met's like
six two six three metts six seven, and we were

(07:40):
a lot bigger than Bruce. Yeah, but and my mom too.
But it's that mind control. If they started, if they
started early enough, then you're just you're brainwashed. Sure, and
so that's that's how he kind of reeled us in. Anyway,
So I was sodomized for about four years from the

(08:03):
ages about fourteen to eighteen. But it's interesting the way,
you know, and I will say, the way God protected me.
I know that sounds like it's an oxymoron, but you know,
first of all, my parents took us to the local
Methodist church every Sunday, which is crazy because you know,

(08:24):
my mom was mentally unstable and my dad was absent.
But it was that faith in God that saved my
life amidst all this hypocrisy and abuse. And then we
also had the next door neighbors, the Hesse family. Virgil
was my best friend, and he was I would say autistic,

(08:44):
but we kind of you know, bonded, and they were
really I mean, they were fairly pretty normal family. Well
most families were normal compared to mine. They were really
a refuge away from the abuse. So, you know, and
I believe Genesis fifty twenty is really one of the

(09:05):
key verses in my life where Joseph tells his brothers,
you intended to harm me, but God intended it for good,
to do what is now being done, the saving of
many lives. I believe, you know, God does allow evil,
but you know he will turn it into good. So
and he put things around me to protect me. You know,
I was a very gifted athlete and student. No pride intended,

(09:31):
you know, if I didn't have that, you know, school
was was safe. Yes, it was a harbor away from
you know, my mom and Bruce, and so I would
spend as much time as I could at school, and boy,
if I didn't have that, and honestly, if I didn't
have a brother, if I had been an only child,

(09:51):
you know, I might not have endured it. Yeah, my
brother and I didn't talk a lot about you know,
the abuse, but you know, we still things together, and
it was kind of a you know, a deflection. Miraculously,
you know, I did graduate Cobal Victorian and you know
I did reach Eagle Scout, which was crazy. Course Bruce

(10:13):
helped me on an eagle project. You know, it's a
two IgE sword. But God really put you know, people
around me like the Hess family and and you know,
at such a young age, I was really in an
impossible situation for a boy because I was wedged in
between my mom and Bruce. It's like there's no way out,

(10:36):
and I couldn't tell anybody because you know, nobody would
would believe me. Probably, So tell me about how's it end?
How does he finally stop and what happens to Matt?
I mean really with Bruce, we kind of did have
one final kind of altercation. I think there was one

(10:59):
time when I was like a senior in high school
that I think I finally said, you know, enough was enough.
I think the gun is really what kept me in check,
you know, all those years in the threat of killing
my family, and I think it was just going off
to college. Yeah, I don't know how many other boys,

(11:20):
you know, he abused. Probably at least ten, I don't know,
but it could be more than that. So he, you know,
sadly was involved with other boys. So I think going
off to college kind of ended it for Bruce. I
might I'll probably mentioned later I met I did meet

(11:40):
him one last time later. But I think for Matt
it's been a lot harder because he remembers every little thing,
and God's really gifted me with being able to block
a lot of the abuse. I mean I remember a lot,
but nothing like my I mean, he will bring up

(12:01):
things like my dad went on a boy scout outing
with Bruce, was in the same cabin with us. I
have no recollection of that. And then Bruce would take, oh,
he would take the boys, you know, out one by
one into the woods, you know, in the middle of
the night, and then he would show up for breakfast.
And my dad knew that he was gone in the

(12:23):
middle of the night and had just had no idea
that that's what was going on. I guess, in fairness,
it was a different time, you know, back in the seventies,
and it just wasn't you know, all this boy scout
stuff hadn't come to light in the Catholic Church. And
so I'm not gonna, you know, fault my dad for that,
but they were just very unaware. Sure, but Matt would

(12:47):
you know, bring something up, and I'd have, you know,
Bruce took sorry pictures of us, you know, like those
old Polari cameras of us naked, and Matt would bring
that up, and I had no recollection of that. I mean,
I just I hadn't remembered that and then and then
I kind of did. But so I think for Matt

(13:10):
it's been probably probably a harder road because he remembers
every little thing. And and you know, the lawsuit, I
guess we'll get into that, but the lawsuit was healing,
you know, for both both of us. But that didn't
happen for many years later, right, So I guess I
can backtrack a little bit. But so after high school,

(13:37):
I had a summer job. I had a chemical factory
in Tacoma, and I was working with panachlorathenol and really
toxic chemical. And I had been sick that summer and
I'd had night sweats, and you know, I hadn't thought
too much about it. And then before I went out
to college, I told my mom that, you know, Bruce
had actually abused us for the first time. I told

(13:57):
my mom that he has actually abused us for a
deck and she didn't believe me. And you told her
when when I was eighteen going off to college. Yes,
I'm sure, and she didn't believe me. And so I mean,
I I was devastated, but I kind of expected that
from her, you know, because she would you know, she
couldn't imagine. I think it's she couldn't imagine Bruce could

(14:18):
do that. But that's like the ultimate failure for a
parent to, you know, admit to yourself that you allowed.
It's a lot of guilt, a lot of guilt that
you allowed that to happen. And I mean, I don't
really fault them for that. Bruce was. I mean, these
pedophiles are evil geniuses if they could just use their
genius for good, but they are the master they know,

(14:41):
you know, and I'd say it it's like a wolf
circling sheep, and the wolf knows that the weakest sheep
to pray on. And they're they're brilliant at, you know,
finding the right family situation where you have and ideally
I mean the perfect situation sadly for them as a
dominant mom and an absent dad, and so they just

(15:04):
kind of insert themselves. Wonder if it's instinctual they really
really know, they must really know, Yeah, and you know
he probably was abused as a boy. I don't know.
I think my wife and I have talked about how
could you know if you were abused as a boy,
how could you perpetuate that? You know, kind of a

(15:26):
generational curse if you believe in that, which I do.
And so anyway, and then my dad went to his
grave pretty much not completely believing the abuse when the
book came out and he kind of read it and
just he said, Bruce, Bruce was a nice guy. And

(15:47):
so that's that's a tough pill to swallow. But I
think these pedophiles they know instinctually that if you know,
certain boys in this case, if they tell their parents,
they're not going to believe them. They just know those
family dynamics somehow, So I like to say. You know,

(16:12):
one of the things is, you know, if your kids
come to you and tell you things like this, you
had better believe them, yeah, and take it seriously and act.
And because that's exactly you know what in our case,
our parents didn't believe us. So, you know, I went
off to college and I and then fall quarter of

(16:36):
my sophomore year, I was wrestling with the friend in
my dorm room and I hurt my rib just bad enough,
and I went to the doctor and they found that
I had Hodgkin's disease lived no cancer miraculously. Obviously it
was God's timing. You know. They said if I waited
a month or hurt another part of my body because
the cancer was in my chest, that I would have died.

(16:59):
And they feel that partly, you know, the cancer was
caused from working with panachlorphino, and you know, there may
have been other factors too, but I think that was,
you know, one of the biggest ones. And so I
went through months of radiation and that was the time
that you know, God really gave me. Jeremiah twenty nine

(17:20):
to eleven. I know the plans I have for you,
not to harm you, but to prosper you to give
you hope in a future, and that God had something
else for me, because I could have easily died, you know,
during college. And then later that year later, I was
taking a final test and blanked and they found out
my thigh rate had gotten dangerously low from radiation scattered

(17:44):
and I almost died again. But miraculously I graduated, you know,
and you know, from engineering college. You know, God's really
shown me that thorns can be valuable in your life too,
and that I finally made amends with my mom. And

(18:06):
for the most part, it didn't end real well when
she died, but that was partly because she was you know,
mentally ill and my parents are going through a divorce
at that time. But I really tried to think back
and you know, thank God for my mom, which is
pretty crazy, but part of that is she really pushed
me to be the best, and you know, I would

(18:28):
have never made it through engineering school being so sick.
You know, there was times, I mean I would throw
up in the chemistry lab or I mean not try to,
or the bathroom or and you know, one night I'd
get like, you know, five hours sleep because I was studying,
and the next night I was spent and would have to.
So I think the doctor said I was one of
the few ever. And I'm not taking any credit for me,

(18:49):
but being that sick making it through engineering school, it's
kind of ironic. I stayed at school because I didn't
want to go home and be with my mom, and
so it was that was it was kind of good
and bad. So I mean for a lot of people,
home is, you know, a wonderful place. For me, it's

(19:11):
always been a war zone. It's the last place, you
know that I wanted to be for the most part,
and I'd be in the basement studying and I know,
anything to kind of be away from my mom. But
I really came to grips with that God does allow
thorns for a reason. There is purpose in our pain,

(19:32):
and that it's meant for us to grow. And I
believe that you know the people that God used the most,
and you see it in the Bible, job Paul Joseph
went through a lot of trials, yes, and that he's
going to hone. He's going to hone you. And I
guess some of us need more honing than others. So

(19:55):
I guess I need a lot of honing so then
you know, after college, then I am you know, I
joined Boweing as a chemical engineer and doing research on
eliminating carcinogens. And you know, only God could do that
because that's you know, how I got sick, and so

(20:16):
I'm able to help others at Boeing by eliminating carcinogens.
So you know, once again it's Genesis fifty twenty. You know,
God turned evil into good with you know, Joseph and
his brothers, and so it's it's crazy the way God
works that way. It's just like, isn't it it is?

Speaker 2 (20:37):
He's amazing, yes, And so okay, so when we've been
at Boeing and we're doing this stuff, when does all
of a sudden this push come to have a court
case and to bring to light.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
All of this this stuff. This is like perfectly scripted
by God. So after you know, I was married to
my first one, and you know it was a very
dysfunctional marriage. You know, she was an abuse victim too,
but you know I had three beautiful children, Brian, Benny,
and Becca. Becca was I don't know, it's interesting doing

(21:14):
it this way. It's like emotional. It's like when I
get up and talk to people. It's emotional, but there's
something about this. You know, Becca was the first to
a girl in one hundred years, and she was like
a princess. And I don't think she walked until she
was like four. I mean I carried her everywhere. And
and you know, Brian and Bennie, I think I think

(21:34):
it's because it was a miracle I survived in my
childhood and then I cancer and I came within a
whisker of having chemo, which means no children. And so
I think just having children was such a miracle that
you know, I was and my first wife and I

(21:56):
weren't that close, and so I was overly attacked. You know,
it's easy to become overly attached to your children and
they can become idols, honestly. And God speaks to me
a lot through the you know, story of Abraham and
boy Isaac was going to be you know, it was
almost going to become an idol for Abraham because of

(22:18):
having Isaac at such an old age, and you know,
and God wanted, you know, tested Abraham by sacrificing Isaac.
And so I think that's because of what I went
through and just being able to have children was such
a miracle that, you know, I was overly attached to
them and and even with Brian and Benny, I was

(22:42):
their Cup Scout and Boy Scout leader. There is probably
not a person on the planet that would go back
into Boy Scouts or have their children go back into
Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts with what I went through
as a boy. But I believe, you know, I believe
on the Boy Scout. I mean still to this day.

(23:02):
I believe in the program. It's just they have not
protected the boys. And now I know it's called I
don't know what it's called Scouts, and there's girls, but
back then it was just boys, and so I was
their leader. And then so in two thousand and one,

(23:22):
my first wife wanted a divorce, so it was it
was devastating. She was having a relationship with a coworker
and that actually still works for me. And I'll talk
about forgiveness. If you don't have forgiveness in my story,
you have no chance. And you've not listened to well enough.

(23:43):
So so yes, I you know, we went through this
horrific divorce. I received a you know, domestic violence protection order,
and there was allegations that I had sexually abused back
of because I was sexually abused as a boy, and
those allegations were later unfounded and we went through CPS.

(24:04):
And you know, Becka was only three or four at
the time. The boys were like eleven and thirteen, and
they were at the worst possible ages. There is no
good age for kids to go through divorce, but preteen
is just even when it's you know, an amicable divorce,
if there is such a thing, but when it's really nasty,
you know, they they just couldn't cope. And so anyway,

(24:29):
so yeah, at the beginning, you know, of the divorce,
I was forced out of the house. And I really
like versus Corinthian's four, you know, where it says we
are hard pressed on every side, but not crushed, perplexed
but not in despair, persecuted but not abandoned, struck down
but not destroyed. And that's another verse that I've really

(24:54):
clung to that I've really been struck down a lot
in my life. I do believe God, you know, God
allowed it for a reason. But you know, ultimately he
will be victorious if we stay the course. And I
think for me, you know, I would really encourage people

(25:14):
not to run from God when heard things come that
we need to run to God, as hard as that is,
that there's just things we're not going to understand. Because
He's God, His ways are not our ways. And I
think for me it's been I've been very blessed. It's
been very concrete, you know, like my cancer. I mean,

(25:37):
you know, people wouldn't you know, understand necessarily why did
I Why did this happen to me? For me, I
mean it was really clear cut because I was able
to eliminate personations of boneing. I mean, it doesn't happen
that way very often. And maybe he knows I'm a
slow engineer, and so he's going to be very direct

(25:59):
with me. And so I So after the divorce with
my first wife, I did get remarried fairly quickly. You know.
We had a blended family, and it was really really hard.
She had three girls and the son from a previous marriage,

(26:19):
and you know, I had three kids, and it was
really challenging. And so about that time that I got remarried, Matt,
you know, called and want to take on the boy
Scouts read about Catholic Church abuse victims and going after
the Catholic Church and for me, it was making the
Boy Scouts safer. I think that was the case with

(26:40):
Matt in part that he, you know, had tremendous anger
toward Bruce. And I'm not going to fault him for that,
that's not really my you know thing, but you know,
we had there was another man that wanted to join
the lawsuit, and I just think he had so much anger.
And the sad thing is they the abuse victims are

(27:04):
kind of it's like we're the bad guys and we're
put on trial, and so that's why people don't come forward.
But Matt and I kind of have this Stuart swagger,
I guess, And I guess that's a good thing about
my parents. I mean, no meant nothing to them. It
was kind of like a temporary answer until you get

(27:25):
to yes. And they had this push, not in the
right way sometimes, but that you know, we could take
on anything. So I guess I guess we had some
of that. So we decided to you know, take on
the Boy Scouts, and that was really Matt's lead. These
emotions are coming from you know. Really, I'm grateful to

(27:47):
Matt because he saved my life. I mean, I would
have broken my silence eventually, but you know he was
really the push and you know he found the lawyer
and you know, we first met with them in October
two thousand and two, and you know, they believed our story.
Of course, there's going to be monetary gain potentially, but

(28:08):
these lawyers, I think we're pretty unique because they just
defended sexual abuse victims for the most part. So I
think they did have a heart, you know, as much
as lawyers can. Way he edit that, but so they
the slogan in their office was Yesterday's children saving Tomorrow's children.

(28:30):
And I love that. And that's I realized that's why
Matt and I lost her childhood, is to save generations
in this case of Boy Scouts to come. And they
said this would be David and Goliath, and we were
David and Boy Scouts were Goliath. It's like taking on
Boeing or you know, Boy Scouts is a huge It's

(28:52):
not this nonprofit you know, small nonprofit organization people think
it is. I mean, they're worth you know, b you know,
billions with with these Boy Scout camps. And so they
had these you know, really high powered lawyers you know
against us, and so we were in these eight hour depositions.

(29:13):
The lead lawyer was the female and asking these horrific questions,
and guy really gave us peace. And they brought in
Bruce across the table to intimidate us, you know, and
then these Boy Scout executives and and that's why people
don't come forward because it wasn't against Bruce, it was
against the organization, yes, and so they brought him in

(29:34):
as an intimidation. Yes, he was included, but he never
went to jail. You know, he was out, you know,
a lot of money. But you know, under oath he
admitted to you know, abusing us. We were actually on
CBSC meeting news with Katie Carrick and she didn't interview us,

(29:57):
but and you know, they showed his clip and you know,
he admitted on national TV, you know that he abused us. So,
I mean, he was guilty. It's just because of the
statute of limitations and whatnot, it gets complicated anyway. So
then you know, our case went before the Washington State
Supreme Court. Only one in five hundred cases goes before

(30:20):
the Washington State Supreme Court, and they ruled that the
Boy Scout Boy Scouts would have to hand over these
perversion files. One hundred years of these secret files stayed
hidden from the American public on pedophiles, and they keep them, Yes,
I know they keep them. Isn't that crazy? It is?
And there was a book called Scouts Honor that was

(30:41):
written about thirty years ago, that the first real book,
and they talked about pedophile rings and the Boy Scouts.
They were associated with Sorry nambla North American Man Boy
Lovers Association and just some real you know, dark stuff,
and but the pedophiles were from within. The national head

(31:04):
of the Youth Protection Training was put in went to prison.
I mean he was in charge of the whole program
to protect boys in the Boy Scouts, and he was
you know, he was the number one guy, Douglas Smith,
that's what that was his name. So the Boy Scouts
had to hand over the files and they were, you know, horrific.

(31:27):
So our lawyers went through them all, categorized them all,
and then they had to go back to the Boy Scouts. Unfortunately,
when we settled in March of two thousand and seven,
but we wouldn't settle unless we could tell our stories,
so we wouldn't allow a gag order. You know. It
was for a very modest amount, and you know, it
wasn't about the money. They didn't want to go to

(31:48):
trial because of you know, Washington State of Washington. It's
it's complicated going to trial. And honestly, my family was
really my family was really struggling, you know, the boys
were really struggling with drugs, you know, through all this,
and I didn't want to have this media circus. And

(32:09):
because you know, this was the biggest what approximate year,
So that was two thousand and seven, So the divorce
was going on at one well actually, yes, I had
been I was remarried. Yeah, but they're still reeling from
all that, trying to recover. They're in drugs. And yes,
now this and now the you know, biggest lawsuit ever

(32:29):
filed against the boy Scouts, and so who's not going
to know all our friends. Yes, so we decided that,
you know, it was better to settle out of court.
And then because of our lawsuit. There was one more
lawsuit in Oregon and the organst and because of you know,
our lawsuit, the Oregon State Supreme Court ruled in twenty

(32:51):
twelve that twenty years of the perversion files would be
released in the American public and that is in twenty
years twenty years duration. Oh okay, so they did release those, yes,
nineteen sixty five to nineteen eighty five, I believe, And
so that was the first time ever that they would

(33:13):
be released to the American public, I believe. Sadly, the
files from ninety and I think nineteen ninety one to
present are still sealed. There's been a lot of battle,
you know, battles to get those unsealed, but I think
those are still sealed. The Boy Scouts, you know, did

(33:34):
everything they could to appeal this. You know, obviously they
couldn't go any higher than the Washington State Supreme Court,
but you know, they they fought, They have fought this
tooth and nail because it's about image. And you know,
these predators were from within, and some of the most
prolific predators probably would be used up to two hundred boys.

(33:58):
They'll say, well, elstistically, and it may be true. Statistically,
it's less than one percent of the volunteers that are pedophiles.
But you know the number of boys that each pedophile effects,
and you know, one boy is too much. Yeah, and
because of our lawsuit, you know, much more stringent youth
protection training guidelines were put into place. Yeah, I mean

(34:21):
they had some, but it wasn't anything until you know,
our lawsuit came into play, and then and then eventually
this led to this class action lawsuit against the Boy
Scouts and almost I guess it's eighty two thousand. I
thought it was a little bit more than that, but

(34:43):
in the you know, ninety thousand range. But anyway, almost
eighty ninety thousand victims came forward in twenty twenty. And
that's just the tip of the iceberg. That's not boys
that committed suicide that are homeless, you know, I mean,
it has destroyed some many more boys than that. Yeah,
that's just the tip of the iceberg. I would have

(35:03):
never believed in all my life been that many people.
And that's just the tip. That's just the tip. And
we worked with a troop in Arkansas, a real form
a real famous court TV show, I think late nineties,
and there was a troop in Arkansas, and I actually
had talked with one of the moms and the scout master,

(35:26):
you know, directed one of the boys to kill his
family and so he's on death row and Arkansas. Matt
had spoken with him and that particular scout master was
the brother, brother in law of this lady, and he
lived next door and would go through the window at
night and abuse her sons, and then one of them

(35:50):
comitted suicide. So this is, yeah, this is far beyond,
you know, anything anybody could ever imagine. And I think
once again, Boy Scouts is unique because it's year round,
it's in the woods, it's out in the middle of nowhere.
And the joke is they call it Babysitters of America
and Boy Scouts of America BSA. And you know, these moms,

(36:13):
a lot of them single moms, and they're exhausted, no disrespect,
and they just drop their boys off and not knowing.
And you know, another you know thing I tell people
is that you absolutely have to be involved. I mean,
the dad has to be involved in this case. Maybe
moms can be too. In some sad like the Campouts.

(36:36):
You know, my wife was in Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.
It's not so much the women, it's more the men.
But you just, you know, I mean, we all have
relatives we don't know that well that we probably wouldn't
drop our kids off at uncle who, you know, whomever's house,
you know, and we're talking complete strangers. And also we

(36:59):
found out that they did not do background checks consistently
or what would happen is and I was a scoutmaster,
I went through it. I know, because they're understaffed. You
would fill out a background check and it would sit
at the local office for months. And so what these
guys would do is they that was enough time, six
months whatever to come and abuse boys and then they

(37:21):
moved troops. They also would change their middle initial I
don't think they can do that so much anymore, but
it used to be they could, you know, they could
skirt the system, sure, because they were not. And the
crazy thing is, I mean, the Boy Scouts was maybe
one of the last organizations to do this. Everywhere else
you can't start until the background check is done. But

(37:46):
for some reason in Boy Scouts they would allow and
I know because I went through it, they would allow
these volunteers to start before the background check was official.
And so anyway, you know, it's it's crazy. You know,
out of all the boys you know around the world,
Boy Scouts, you know, probably two hundred million boys at

(38:08):
least in one hundred years. For some reason, God chose
Matt and I yeah, and I think it's it's and
I'm not trying to compare myself to Christ by any means,
but there has to be you know, we had to
lose our childhood for there to be changed. Sure, and
it's just like you know, before way stop, you know,
somebody gets killed. Sadly, there's you know a bunch of

(38:31):
accidents at one light and they are at one you know,
four way stop and they have to put in a light. Yeah,
you know, unfortunately it takes tragedy. And you know, I
think it's a parallel. You know, Christ had to go through,
you know what he went through to save the world.
And I'm not comparing myself to him at all, but
in this case, you know, Matt and I had to
lose our childhood for there to be changed. And this

(38:53):
boy and then the following the Oregon lawsuit and you know,
sadly somebody had to lose their childhood there to be changed.
But you know, it's and once again it's Genesis fifty twenty.
You know, God had a good plan for Bruce. Bruce
chose evil and God was going to turn that into good.
I mean, he's probably the most famous pedophile in boy

(39:16):
Scott history. And that from Dashpoint, Washington lived down. I mean,
you know, we were neighbors. What are the odds of that?

Speaker 2 (39:23):
And so at this point we have a lawsuit in
two thousand and seven, it finally's over settled out at.

Speaker 1 (39:29):
Well, you know, twenty twenty. I mean that kind of
comes into the present. The class action lawsuit was twenty twenty,
the Oregon State Supreme Court was twenty twelve. So I mean, overall,
I mean it's taken. You know, we first met with
the lawyers in two thousand and two. You've participated in
those two lawsuits and two no okay, but it was
because of our initial lawsuit that it opened it all up.

(39:54):
Yours was done when so ours was two thousand and seven,
it was done. When do you start writing the book? Wow,
so we started let me kind of, let me kind
of go back here. Sure. So you know, once again,
during this time, Brian and Bennie were really struggling. You know,

(40:15):
I still lived close in eaham Claw, but you know,
married to my second wife. Bennie actually came and you know,
lived with us, and he really saved my life. It
was it was a very very hard time just to
divorce alone. And then you add the boy scout stuff
and then trying to maintain my job at Boeing. I
kind of kid around. My job at Boeing is the

(40:37):
only thing that's besides God that's I haven't lost in
my life. So, but the boys are really struggling. You know, Brian,
you know, became a homeless drug addict, almost died. He's
doing fine now. Becca, it's been a very very hard road.

(41:00):
Has brainwashed her a lot, and because of the CPS stuff,
and so she's had to struggle with you know, she
doesn't remember back when she was three or four, and
all these false accusations. So we talked about Brian. I
will get to bany Becca, Sorry, how these b names.
My kids would say, thanks a lot that our initials

(41:20):
are bs. So, you know, Becka and I we'd be
very close at times, and then you know, she would
kind of go back to her childhood and not being
able to you know, remember anything, and all these unfounded allegations,

(41:42):
and so she was in a really, you know, really
tough spot. And I believe very much in spiritual warfare
that for whatever reason, there's been a tremendous battle for
this story. And I'm not trying to compare myself to
Daniel or anything like that. But you know, I do
believe that there's been a real battle when the enemy

(42:02):
is really you know, attacked Becca in fact, so after
all the CPS stuff went away, you know, about a
year and a half ago, you know, Becca came back
to me and you know, I'll get to my story
in the book, but you know, about when the book
is going to launch, you know, I believe the enemy

(42:24):
is right at the gate. And you know, Joyce Smier
likes to say new devil, you know, new level, new devil,
and God brings us up in levels and it is
big God, little devil, but he's still he's still there.
And so sadly about it. You know, a year and
a half ago, Becca had texted me and said that,
you know, she was abused as a girl and I

(42:46):
was a predator, and so it was another blow and
it was prophesied over me that you know, there would
be restoration in my life and I'll get to my
my lovely wife Julie, and that's what God is doing.
I just pray that you know, he brings my product
Weald daughter home someday. I think with Benny, you know,

(43:11):
Benny obviously has been the hardest. I was very close
with all three of my children, but parents don't like
to admit it, but there was always there's one child
you click with a little bit more, maybe just because
you have the same personality or whatever. And he and
I were really inseparable. You know. We would go together

(43:31):
to see you Brian and rehab in Montana and Oregon,
and he'd go along with car rides, and you know,
he really saved my life. Boy, these emotions are crazy,
you know. And he too was struggling with heroin and meth.
But Benny just had a way. He just I mean,
people wouldn't even know he was struggling per se because

(43:52):
he would always be helping others and he just had
that you know, huge personality. And then there was you know,
the last time I saw him, which was July twenty fourteen,
I was weeded, and he came up with a friend
and he said, basically, I love you, Dad, I'd be
dead without you. And we just really worked hard together
on his you know, and I worked with Brian too,

(44:14):
it was just a little different with Benny. We really
worked hard together and both boys are in Salvation Army
rehab programs and they graduated, and it's just it's so
I guess this message hits on so many levels, you know,
the drug addiction part. You know, I have one son
that made it, one that didn't. And if you don't

(44:36):
get away from all that, your former friends and that
old way of life, which is really hard if you
live in the same area, it's almost like you have
to move away, you know, because there's nothing more powerful
than heroin and meth. So I you know, it was
August eleventh, twenty fourteen, and I was at work and
the police department called and told me that Bennie had,

(44:58):
you know, died of a heroin overdose. The crazy thing
is the pastor, our pastor the day before had preached.
He was a chaplain, and he had preached about going
to people's doors and having to tell them they had
lost children. You know, if you'd told me that I
would lose many and then I'd be able to endure it,

(45:18):
I would have said, no way. But you know, it's
not about me, It's about God. And you know, God
really told me that Benny was a gift. You know,
everything we have is a gift. What we all deserve
his eternal damnation. So anything beyond. That's a gift and
we have to cherish every minute we have and the family.

(45:39):
You know that we have, children's, spouse and friends. And
I like to say, you know, don't don't ever hang
up the phone angry, draw up, drive off, angry. I
don't let your kids. You don't ever want to end
on a bad note, because you know, you never know
what's going to happen to any of us. I mean,
we're not guaranteed the next minute, our month, year, And

(46:04):
so I think Benny, really, I mean, it was really
a wake up call and that he was you know,
he was a gift from God. And he even our
children they're they're not ours to keep, They're not They're
from God and he can take them back, as hard
as that is. And you know, being on drugs, the boys,

(46:27):
you always thought maybe you'd get that phone call, you know,
the parents that lose children to cancer or car accidentut
of the blue. I mean, losing Bennie was excruciating, but
there there is harder ways to lose children because I
kind of, you know, I knew that that might happen
to Brian or Bennie, but you know, I talked to

(46:47):
a couple of moms at the funeral. There was two
boys in particular, there was supernaturally released from heroin addiction
that night. Would I have wanted to lose Benny for
the two I think give you know, had that happen
to them, you know that that's that's a hard trade off.
But you know, his death really helped a lot of

(47:08):
a lot of people. I think it was a two
edged sword for Brian. I think initially Brian didn't want
to live. There's nothing harder than losing a sibling at
that age before he'd become a parent. I mean, losing
a child, I think is the hardest thing. But but
I think ultimately Brian realized, you know, he had a
higher calling and that he you know, obviously had to

(47:31):
get off drugs. So I think, you know, Benny's death
and it really gave me the call of my life,
which is Isaiah sixty one, to bind up the broken hearted,
proclaim freedom for the captives, released from darkness for the prisoners,
and to bestow on them accrown of beauty instead of ashes.
And that really is the call of my life. With

(47:54):
all the trials I've been through that you know, I
can walk in other people's shoes because I've been through
a lot of different trials. Not the hardest life ever
by any means, but unique. There was a man in Pennsylvania,
Cliff Harlow said, and I'll get to that, but you

(48:14):
know that we've been able to help and through the book.
So the crazy thing too, is that since Bennie's death,
God's given me all these prophecies and these he speaks
to me through numbers, because I'm a strange engineer, as
all engineers are, and so what better way to speak
to me than through numbers. It's unique because it's all

(48:37):
through Benny. Even your your name, Troy Munson, t is twenty,
Emma's thirteen twenty and thirteen thirty three. That was the
age of Christ died and Benny died an eight eleven fourteen.
Those three numbers out to thirty three. It's endless. So

(48:58):
Brian calls it the beautiful Mind, and Russell Crowe, I
don't think that was a compliment. But anyway, so and
you know, this Pastor prophesied over me that that I would,
you know, God would take me by a way that
I had never imagined and and that I misunderstood because

(49:20):
I deal on this number Grid and so, and we
actually go to his church sit atyl Church, and he's
very prophetic, and so I had not met him maybe once,
but he, you know, as they say, read my mail,
and I mean he's completely more or less a complete stranger,

(49:40):
and he completely told me my whole life, as prophets do.
And so I think, so since Benny's death, it's been
it's been really, really, really hard. But I think, you know,
we talked a little bit and we'll talk more about

(50:02):
some of the things that I face now. And you know,
grief is definitely not slipping. I've never really struggled with
deep depression. I mean, when you lose a child, of
course you're going to go through some sort of depression.
But I also think that's what the enemy wants, even

(50:22):
though it's easier said than done, that we have to
pull ourselves up and we really have to, you know,
lean into God and that there is a plan for
all this and sometimes it's just not going to be
very pleasant. But there's purpose in our pain, you know,
Rick Warren, purpose driven life. Our greatest ministry comes from
our greatest hurt, and so all of this is birth,

(50:45):
you know, out of losing Benny. You know, my wife
and I really have a heart for the homeless and
broken hearted, you know, because we've been we've been there.
I mean, we haven't been homeless per se, but close. Yeah,
my boys are homeless, you know, and so and then
God never wastes a hurt. And I know that it's

(51:08):
really really hard for people to listen to but I
do believe it with all my heart. And sometimes it
takes years, decades. His timing is not our timing. We
are very impatient, and you know, five years to him,
you know, five years to us is like a second
to him. I think you know, through Bennie's death, it's

(51:31):
been because God speaks to me this way. It's very comforting,
but it's also it's very hard because it makes me,
you know, miss Bennie that much more. You know, I
drive his car, and you know, I really God really
speaks to me very clearly. Sometimes of course I miss
God and I'm nothing. I'm just your average Joe, average Tom.

(51:54):
I am nothing. There's nothing special about me. Maybe the numbers.
But you know, He talks to all of us in
different ways. We just need to be still and be
quiet in this ridiculously noisy society being pinged constantly with
our phone and computers, and you know, I find that,

(52:15):
you know, in the quiet times, that's when God really
speaks to me. So after, you know, after Benny's death,
so I along, you know, along all that, my second
wife had an affair and so she divorced me, and
so I got remarried the third time, and that was

(52:39):
twenty fourteen. That was actually right around when Benny died.
So it was once again a very very tumultuous time.
You know, my third wife was bipolar, and it was
very very challenging. I you know, had been around mental
illness my whole life, from the female side, and but

(53:00):
I you know, have a real heart for that. And honestly,
looking back, my third wife was a distraction after losing
many I believe in some ways God used that if
I had been alone, you know back you know, wasn't
speaking to me and Brian was having problems, and if

(53:23):
I had been alone with all that, we'd find out
how powerful God is. And I like to say, you know,
sometimes God's going to strip it all away, so that's
just you and him, so that we really lean on him.
And I wish it were different, but so you know,
believe it or not. You know, after I got remarried,

(53:45):
then another blended family. And so at the time my
third wife and I, she had never written a book,
and so she actually was the ghostwriter for the first
version of my book, called The Broken Scout, that came
out in twenty seventeen. You know, it was a very
tumultuous time because of her up and down, you know, emotions,

(54:08):
and but you know, we thought that was that was it.
There was a filmmaker and Hollywood accepted my life story,
and but it just wasn't meant to be. And to
be completely honest, it's easy to get caught up in
the glitter and potential fame of all this. And God
had to really humble me. And so I like to

(54:30):
say he sent me off into the Everett Wilderness. And
we lived in Bonnie Lake, and I was working in
Evart at the time, and I was, you know, it
was too far to drive to Everett, so I was
staying in these little holes in the walls and amidst
this story coming out and Icon Media picked it up
and they did Miracles from Heaven and probably fifty New

(54:53):
York Times bestselling authors, and it just wasn't God's time.
I think I was too caught up and meeting Rick
Warren and all that, and partly and so I really
so I was staying And it is a New York
Times bestseller, just my journey, and once again it's kind
of Abraham. He was just leading me around from little

(55:16):
room to a little room. I stayed in believe it
or not, I stayed in a tent in a hoarder's basement.
God was taking me back to my childhood with kind
of combining boy scouts in the tent and my mom
was a hoarder, and he was taking me back to
set me free. I believe that you have to be

(55:37):
taken back sometimes to those moments in time in the
past where you got stuck. My parents got stuck at
age thirteen when you know, my dad's mom, my grandma,
went to Western State, and my mom's you know, mom
died my grandma. I think we can easily get stuck.
And it's definitely true of drug abuse. You get duck,

(56:00):
you know, at a moment in time in your childhood,
and you don't ever get beyond that some tragic accident
or so. I think he was taking me back to
different spots to set me free. And then I was
so I was kind of bouncing around. I mean, it's

(56:20):
hard to make this stuff up, and some of this
is in the book. So eventually The Broken Scout was rewritten.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
In a ghost writer and so the Curse never released.

Speaker 1 (56:33):
No, it was, it was. And I was working with
the producer of Doctor Phil sixteen minutes Good Morning America.
I mean, not that that matters, but if that helps
get the story out and help others, and you know,
and it's not about being famous, and I had to
be reminded of that many many times. It's about helping others.

(56:57):
And if God just wants me to share with groups
of five or ten, great, he wants me in a
church of three thousand, great, And you know, does he
want us helping a few people at a deep level
or does he want us to help thousands at a
superficial level. Because there's nothing more frustrating than what if
fifty people in a big church come up to you

(57:19):
and you're not prepared to help? So, yeah, I was.
I was staying in some incredibly interesting spots and in
this one lady in this apartment in Lynnwood, complete stranger.
I went in there and because the place I was
staying before, God said basically, it's time to move on,

(57:42):
And which is kind of interesting because I'm a creature
of habit and I have a lot of sleeping issues
from the abuse as a child, so you know, getting
used to new sleeping arrangements is not easy for me.
I have a whole, you know, routine. And so this
lady complete stranger, she had purple hair, and I was

(58:07):
just like and she was a hoarder, and I was
just like, Okay, Lord, I'm gonna need some help here
if you really want me to stay here. And and
so God gives me signs and sets of three. So
the first sign was Dick's Drive in that was a
favorite spot with Benny, and I was close by, and okay,
that's that would be considered a coincidence. The second she

(58:29):
put down a green four leaf clover on my ministry card.
I have a green four leaf clover tattoo that Brian
had designed, and of course Benny was born the day
after Saint Patrick's Day and so there's a lot to that.
So put she put this green and it was a
metal Washington Lottery four leaf clover, so it wasn't exactly

(58:51):
the same, but it was symbolic. And so it's like, okay, Lord,
I'm I'm listening. And then I just told my wife,
I think today that she pulled out a boy Scout handbook.
I'll never forget it. It was a used book and the
date that the boy had signed in there was three

(59:14):
eighteen o seven. Bennie's birthday is three eighteen March eighteenth,
eighteen o seven is my childhood address. I drive people
crazy with the numbers. But it was like and then
she said, you know, I'm fine with my boy being
in Cup Scouts. I'm concerned about his safety in boy Scouts.
Do you know anything about pedophiles in the boy Scouts?

(59:36):
And I about hit the floor. Wow. So and so
the third side is always like this red sea moment,
and it's like, okay, Lord, you're telling me you want
me to stay with this blue haired whatever color hair
was blue haired, mentally ill horder in the third floor

(59:56):
apartment in Limit. Okay. So I was there like I
don't know, eight months, some of the crazy stuff, and
I slept in the closet. God told me to go
into the closet for a month, like a three foot
by seven foot closet, and I'll never forget during COVID
or church pastor he was preaching from I think the

(01:00:20):
rooftop of his church, this huge church, and evert because
there was nobody there because of COVID, and he goes,
I know every closet in this place, and that's just
the way God speaks to me. And it's just like, Okay,
I guess I meant to be here. So and eventually
I got down to Piallop. God told me, I believe

(01:00:43):
to buy a home for a lady and her children
to get out of it about domestic violent situation. And
I was sleeping in the den, she was upstairs with
her kids, and just this insane stuff that everybody thought
I was crazy, and they still do. They address eighty
eleven Ben he died on eight eleven. Eighty and eleven

(01:01:06):
is ninety one. He was born in ninety one and
eight eleven. It's reversed. It's Hebrews eleven eight. God gives
it to me in reverse as well, which makes it
much more complicated. And so that's Abraham and going out
not knowing whehere he's going. And so it's like, okay,
that's where I'm supposed to be. Our current address is

(01:01:26):
nine three one eight three one eight. It's Benny's birthday.
It's just scripted by God. And so eventually, you know,
we had this, had this prophecy at East Point Church
in Bonnie Lake and that God was going to take
me on a path that I never imagine. And and

(01:01:48):
then I'll get to the final part, which is very interesting.
But so he also gave me this prophecy on Ruth
and Boaz that I would be marrying a much younger lady.
Last year, I was engaged a couple times and then
ultimately I met my lovely wife Julie. And yeah, one

(01:02:11):
of the places I stayed in amongst many you know,
I work at buying Frederickson. You drive down to this
place Bentley Avenue, Stuart Avenue, you know Ben Stuart, and
then the name of the place was Stuart Crossing. It's
just like, okay, I guess. God just makes it really

(01:02:33):
simple for me. So I was staying there, I opened
my Bible. The page on Ruth and Boaz was supernaturally
wrinkled in such a way that I knew I couldn't
wrinkle it. So it's like, okay, I guess Ruth is,
I guess Ruth is, you know, going to meet her soon.

(01:02:55):
And the next night I met Julie at East Point
Church and we were in a little group, so I
shared my story and Julie was floored by the boy
Scout part of it because she had been in cup
Scouts with her boys, and she shared her story. You'll

(01:03:20):
probably be eventually, you know, interviewing her too, but her
story is just jaw dropping too, and that you know,
God was bringing both of us together, that she was
the missing piece to the puzzle on all this. And
then yes, we have this crazy prophecy that we're going

(01:03:41):
to have children and twins at least that were the
modern day Abraham and Sarah. And you know, people, my
son just rolls his eyes and that's okay, but that
you know, the Stewart bloodline is going to come back
through me potentially. And so now we've you know, Julie

(01:04:03):
is unbelievable. Fourth times a charm, I like to say.
And you know, we're starting a ministry, Remarkable Spirit ministries
for the homeless, and we have that same heart, you know,
for the broken hearted, and to try to reach as
many people as we can reach. And then the book

(01:04:25):
on Wings Like Eagles, which has been condensed and more
palatable version than the Broken Scout, not so dark. The
Broken Scout is just complete everything raw. Yes, I mean
it did have other things in there, but it was
heavily weighted to my childhood. And you know, I'm I'm

(01:04:48):
forever grateful to my third wife for being the ghostwriter.
And my story would have never would have never been
written initially, you know, it was refined with another Ghos strider.
But and then miraculously I reached out to Josh McDowell ministry,
which is like leaving a message at the White House

(01:05:09):
or something. I mean, you know, the odds of them
calling back are zero. And they listened to my message,
and you know, it was God. And you know, I'm
I'm good at going ahead of God. And now I
think we're more in sync. You know, sometimes He really
has to humble us to pull us back. You know,
he doesn't want us ten miles ahead. He wants us maybe,

(01:05:32):
you know, like a shepherd, maybe a step like with
the sheep, and you know, a step behind. And he's
walked all this before and let's you know, we can't
fathom that. But so they called back and said, you know,
my story was breath taking, and and then I said,

(01:05:53):
you know, is there a chance you might be old?
You know, they get books in from all over the world,
boxes and boxes, and they have to pick and choose
which books they read, and no promises, but hopefully they
can read it. You know, they read it. And you know, Josh,
he endorsed it. He doesn't have time to read it,
so he goes off hiss reader. And then funny thing

(01:06:16):
is we sent in endorsements kind of wording for him,
and so he would kind of pick and choose because
he doesn't have time for this, you know, as busy
as he is. And anyway, so he endorsed the life
of my life story. And I met him in Seattle
a couple of years ago, which is you know, that's

(01:06:37):
like meeting that's like the next thing to Billy Graham.
I mean, it's he's just a man, but he's a
pretty special guy. Yeah, one hundred. I think he's written
one hundred and fifty five books, if you can even
and he's spoken to I think fifty million people in
one hundred and forty countries. I mean, it boggles the mind.
And so you know, I was in the presence of greatness,

(01:07:01):
and I think more than a carpenter's in one hundred
and twenty eight languages. So actually on Wings like Eagles
is in Spanish and Swahili. God's thinking, yeah, don't don't
get a big head there. You've got a long ways
to go. So anyway, so it was it was really
a blessing that he endorsed the book. It seems released

(01:07:24):
September twenty twenty one and it's on Amazon. Lord Willing,
my wife and I are going to you know, a
book fair next month, you know, back East, and you know,
we'll see where God takes it. You know, it has
been prophesied that it will be, you know, a bestseller.
And when I watched this movie, I can only imagine

(01:07:47):
twenty eighteen. The Lord told me, I believe that there
would be a movie. But you know, it's just to
help others. Honestly, our proceeds are going to go to
helping others. I mean, Josh McDowell, I mean, every cent
of is multi million selling books goes into the ministry.
I mean, you know, it really is the concept of
like keeping ten percent and giving away ninety. Yeah, we

(01:08:10):
just keep just enough so that you know, we have
a modest lifestyle and we give it, you know, we
give it away. I mean, when the Lord takes me
home someday, I want to have like, you know, a
nickel in my account. Yeah, not for you know, I
want something for Julie and the kids, but as little

(01:08:30):
as you know possible. And so we're really you know,
trying to help others and looking for sponsors and donations
and you know, just to try to reach as many
people as we can. And if if somebody's going to
reach out and do a donation, how would they do that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:48):
Tell So you can do a donation on Facebook from
our remarkable Spirit Ministries website there and then also the
actual website which is the same name dot com. Tom's

(01:09:10):
book you can actually order not only on Amazon, but
you can also get it on his website on wings like.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Eagles dot org.

Speaker 3 (01:09:19):
So yeah, there's several different ways, and I would just
encourage them if they need help, reach out and I'll walk.

Speaker 1 (01:09:29):
You through it. Tom's this awesome. I really really appreciate
you sitting down talking.

Speaker 3 (01:09:34):
Man.

Speaker 1 (01:09:34):
Now, I know you get a lot of things going on.
The future is this ministry and obviously wherever God leads
you to have kind of any party, words or anything
else you want to you want to let all hang out,
so to speak. Well, I'm very grateful to have this
opportunity this afternoon. And you know, once again, I believe,

(01:09:55):
you know, God does allow hard things in our lives,
but there is purpose in your pain, and you know
he can turn evil into good. And the only reason
I'm sitting here today is because of you know, my
faith in God and and like I said, running to
Him when times are hard and not running away from him.

(01:10:18):
And I'm not judging anybody, you know, losing a child,
you know these you know, the childhood abuse, having cancer,
you know, these horrific divorces. I mean, you know, once again,
I'm just an average guy and with an extraordinary God.
I guess that's what I like to say. It really
has nothing to do with me. We just and we

(01:10:40):
have to be you know, patient and long suffering. And
that's you know, that's easier said than done. And we
live in an instantaneous society, society, and you know, I'm
guilty of it as anybody else. So you know, we're
just really excited about you know, this is a you know,

(01:11:01):
I just turned sixty two and Julie's forty seven. And
this has kind of been a lifelong journey of you know,
and you will hear Julie's story eventually too. You know,
it's a lifelong journey of a lot of trials. And
you know, I wanted to mention this man, Cliff harlst
and Pennsylvania read The Broken Scout and it said it

(01:11:24):
saved his life. And I don't think he would mind
my sharing, but you know, he was sex trafficked as
a boy, and just when you think you've been through
it all, you know, there's always somebody else that's been
through it more. And you know, he's paralyzed from the
waist down, and hopefully, you know, he's going to be
part of this ministry. But I think the more we

(01:11:47):
help others that have it far worse than we do,
you know, it really it really helps our outlook and
it prevents us from going, you know, deep into a
hole of pres when we're able to help others that
are going through much harder time than we are. And
so I think it's really to keep your eyes up

(01:12:08):
and looking at God in the big picture and not
to get so you know, inwardly focused, which is you know,
we all struggle with that, but Cliff has really been
an inspiration. I have another friend who's blind, and you know,
Julie was legally blind for three years and we all
have she's fine now. We all have different crosses, and

(01:12:32):
you know, I couldn't imagine being blind. I mean, with
what I've been through, I could not imagine being blind
or being paralyzed. For me, that would probably be just
about unbearable. So and then someone would, you know, say
that losing a child is would be unbearable for them.
So we all have different crosses and we just what

(01:12:55):
I like to say is that once God has set
me free in some areas, that we can help set
others free and that we can kind of link together
and be stronger. And I do believe forgiveness is the
key I did. I didn't mention, but you know, after
thirty five years, end of twenty fifteen, I went to
Bruce's house. I hadn't seen him essentially since I was eighteen.

(01:13:18):
You know, I forgave him face to face. He was
not cordial. I mean, he said we lied, and but
it's not about him, It's about me. And you know,
God really set me free that day to really help others.
And but I think forgiveness is really, you know, the key.
We have to forgive our betrayers because if we don't,

(01:13:39):
we're going to be in that dungeon of bitterness and
resentment our whole life and God, you know, that's not
where God wants us. As hard as it is, and yeah,
it takes time. I mean it took me, I guess
thirty five years ultimately at least face to face obviously
for and especially for women with you know, abusive men
or you know, that's not always possible from a safety standpoint,

(01:14:02):
but as much as possible, we really have to forgive
our betrayers. And I believe we can only do that
through Christ, especially these horrific offenses. We cannot do that
on our own. I've spoken at conferences and the concept
of forgiveness even like the Catholic Church abuse victims. I
spoke at a conference and that concept of forgiveness was

(01:14:27):
absolutely foreign to them. And so and I'm not it
has nothing to do with me. It's the power of
Christ and so we I think, you know, forgiveness is
really really key. And so just thank you for having
me today. Tom.

Speaker 2 (01:14:43):
I'm once again amazed and having known you, just to
hear it is just almost overwhelming.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
And I do appreciate everything that you have and through
them where it's where you've come from, and it's it's
glorious to see. I can't wait to see where the
future holds for you. It's gonna be amazing. Thank you.
Until next time. Thank you for tuning in. I'm doctor
Troy Munson, and remember there is way more right with
you than there is wrong with you. Thank you for

(01:15:11):
listening to doctor Munson's words of radiance. We hope you
enjoyed our show