OKCus at the Top & KD/Desmond Bane Trades

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Drive and Dish podcast, The.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
Drive and Welcome to To start it off, it's Kevin
and let's go. I mean, I don't even know how
to recap these last really week and a half in
the NBA. I mean, I know we joke when we
got jam packed podcast. This is definitely the definition of one.

(00:25):
And it's that alone, coming off Game seven of the
NBA Finals in for what my measure, has been one of,
if not the best series of basketball since we started
this podcast you back in the day, just unbelievable. We
do want to you know, obviously for the video watchers,
we're gonna do the full intro later, but I think
you can tell by now that when I start the podcast,

(00:46):
that means our pal Justin is off. But we got
our guy Andy Jordan here pinching at Andy's magic minute
on Twitter. Of course you've heard him guests in here
on the podcast a lot of times. You can see
by the hat too if you're watching on video. We
got Desmond Bain trade to talk about, so definitely stays
tuned for that. But of course we are going to start.
We're not gonna waste any time, get right into the
NBA Finals. Huge congrats to the Oklahoma City Thunder. First

(01:08):
championship in OKC. Second one is a franchise, but again,
you know it's in Seattle. We said this a few times.
It doesn't really count when it's not in the same city.
So this is a big first one for those fans.
You know, win in game seven on their home floor
one oh three to ninety one. Uh. We had talked
through game four last podcast, so Thunder one twenty to
one oh nine. In game five a huge Pacers won

(01:30):
on their home floor. In Game six went away to
ninety one, and then of course the game last night
that you know, unfortunately it's just going to be marred
by the Tyrese Haliverton injury. And I don't know about you, Andy,
but I think like the Thunder is such a valid
champion and I almost am disappointed for them a little
bit as well, because you know, we've talked about this

(01:51):
the whole time, right, like they've had one of the
best NBA seasons that we've ever seen, Like they ran
the gauntlet from start to finish the way that Boston
did last and now they're sitting here having completed the mission,
you know, set up for a potential dynasty, and again
we're gonna get into all those implications, but man, this
was such a good series. And for Halliburton, who again

(02:12):
starts hot nine points early on, hitting all those deep
three pointers to just instantly go down and everybody knew
what it was when it was the Achilles with knowing
that he had the calf strain in Game five, like
he just like I was sad, like it really, I
haven't had an injury. I feel like in the NBA
just take me out in a while, like that really did.

(02:34):
And it's just such a shame because it marred a classic,
like this is one of the best series of basketball
you've ever seen, and you know, maybe because we got
spoiled with some of these other game sevens recently, right
with like the Lakers and Celtics in twenty ten with
the Heat and Spurs and thirteen obviously with the Calves
and the Warriors being maybe the greatest game seven or
game period that I've ever seen in my wife NBA wise,

(02:56):
But how about you like this, just like did it
take the wind out of your sales the way it
did for me? Like I just was so sad watching
the end of this game after how he went down.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Yeah, I mean deflated. That's the best word I can
think of, right, because it really was that. Like you
see the injury, you instantly know what it was. Like
you said, he was on fired three or four from three,
like you know, just he was cooking. So the fact
that that happened in that moment I heard for him.

(03:31):
As an individual, you think of any professional athlete, any profession.
You know, you work your entire life for a moment,
whatever your profession may be, to be at that moment,
and for that to happen to you. I feel for
the man. I really do. Obviously for the fans, and
I like your point about okay, see you right, because

(03:51):
they didn't get a chance. That's going to be the comment, Well,
well Tyree's went down. You know, you had these injuries
along the line. Look, Ohoma was the best team in
the league from the beginning of the year all the
way through. Can we make arguments that they get away
with certain things, Yes, still doesn't change the fact they
have been the best team the entire year, at least

(04:12):
for this season. Do I think they'll be the like
the Juggernaut franchise that everybody's talking about. I don't know.
To be honest with you, I don't really see them
as that. I just think for this year they just
had it clicking the entire season, similar to Indiana. I
didn't think Indiana was the best team out of the East.
They were rolling at the right time, right, so they

(04:33):
beat the teams they had to be. But if you
had to ask me, are they the best team in
the East this year? No, I really felt that was
still Boston didn't make it. I doesn't change the fact
that I felt they were the best team. Indiana was
playing the best, and they beat the people that they
had to beat, and they earned their chance to be
there in the finals, and they gave Oklahoma City everything
they could handle. And it's a shame. It's a shame

(04:54):
for Tyreese, the franchise, the fans of both teams, US
who are just neutral fans watch like, man, we didn't
get to see. Could he have ended that story right?
Could he have ended that story in a in a
big game seven win with all the narratives around, the
whole overrated thing, the games that he's had, the really

(05:15):
bad game that he had at Oklahoma. Man, if he
would have sealed that deal, that's a thirty for thirty yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:23):
And I mean in that game six, he was every
bit of the superstar they needed him to be playing
on that calf injury. And I mean, look, some of
the guys mentioned it as well. I mean Obi topping
straight up again, he's one of a few Pacers. I
mean Obi was rough, Miles was rough, the Smith was rough,
but I mean Obie straight up a minute, He's like, look,
it took a lot out of me, Like it was taken.

(05:43):
It was on our thoughts the whole game. And you're right, like,
no matter what, the Pacers, this is an all time
postseason run. I mean this truly, like they were a
game away from probably the biggest upset in NBA history,
if we're talking about from where you expected this team
to be at the beginning of the season in the
middle of the year, like there is no one who
I think thought and then even going into this series

(06:05):
with how big of a favorite that OKC was for
this to get taken all the way to seven, and
you're right, like the only thing wins and losses are
part of the sport, Like you know that going into
Game seven, like somebody has to lose this game. You know,
I can take and I think with having watch enough
sports now and even when I put my fan hat on,
like I can handle losing a game when it's just

(06:27):
like how it is, like sometimes it just doesn't go
your way, especially in a series like this one that
was so competitive and so even the way it was,
I think the cruelest part for any sports fan or
the what ifs, And that's just where I feel so
bad for indie fans, because this is a giant what
if now and you're right with like hitting those early shots,
Like it doesn't help that Halliburn started hot. Like if

(06:49):
he was like zero for two and this happened a
minute in, you could say, oh, well, yeah, that's obviously
still mars it. But like you're not gonna be able
to tell me for the rest of my life that
Halliburn wasn't gonna cook the game. They still might have lost,
Like that's the thing is, like, okay, so talented, they
still very well might have lost. But I wanted to
see that play out, and I'm just so disappointed that

(07:09):
we're not going to see that play out. Like history
will judge Halle kindly, Like this truly was like it's
in you know, I look back to the only time
I've seen the Sixers in the finals in my lifetime
was once in fourth grade and oh one, but that
iverson playoff run like it's aged like fine wine, Like listen,
they got beat by that Lakers team. The Lakers team
was straight up better, but man, it wasn't because anything

(07:30):
he didn't do. And I think that's how people are
gonna feel about Haliburn and just this team in general,
Like you look at what this run has done for
Pascal Siakam's legacy, Rick Carlisle as a coach, like his legacy,
but you know, for guys like Benedict Matherin, Oh yeah,
I mean Hall of Fame.

Speaker 1 (07:45):
Though I think he is one of the most underrated
coaches ever. I thought he had a bad deal in Detroit.
I felt like that championship would have been his if
they would have just given him one more year.

Speaker 2 (07:57):
I love Riccardlo.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
I think I was cheering for Indiana. I think mainly
because of Carlisle, Like I really wanted him to get
this one. I think that would have just sealed the
deal on the one of the greatest coaches I think
in my lifetime. And that's saying a lot because we've
had some good ones. It would have put him certainly
higher on the pantheon. Like that's the thing is, like

(08:20):
I think people who know ball, like he's been such
a staple, like you said for the league now for
twenty thirty years, he's got a championship, like you said,
with years apart, like that championship all the way back
in twenty eleven with the MAVs, like we're here in
twenty twenty five talking about him playing in or like
coaching a finals team with a completely different style than
that Dallas team have, like he's adapted over eras And

(08:41):
you're right, that second championship, it felt like, would have
put him in the conbo more often with guys like Pop,
with guys like Eric Spolstra.

Speaker 2 (08:49):
You know, the definitive coaches of our generation.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
And no super team, right, like that Dallas team all
very good. I think people underestimate how good that team was.
Wasn't considered a super team. This Indiana team again very good,
It's not considered a super team. So I think again
that would have been And even that Detroit team that
he had that again, I felt like had he just
got in that one extra year, you could have flipp

(09:15):
him in Larry Brown, and he would have gotten the
ring instead of Larry Brown. That team is not a
super team. It's just again a very cohesive, well coached team. Again,
A big fan of carlos Man. I was hoping for
him that he would have got it.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
Yeah, I mean, but going back to the roster, you know,
it's the guys like you know, Bennett Maathin, It's TJ McConnell,
who is now never going to pay for a drink
in the state of Indiana ever. Again, like those guys
really did, like, you know, show their worth. It's you know,
I think about Miles Turner and what this run is
meant to his legacy and how good of a soldier
he's been now went through all those trade rumors, and

(09:52):
it's just disappointing. Like you love the way, you know,
I think their style of the fast paced style of play.
I think that identity of just being dogs like they
were in every single one of these games, like that's
gonna leave a lasting impact. But like all that is
still like none of that consoles the fact of losing
Game seven, when you just feel like you didn't have
a fair shot because you lost your best player.

Speaker 1 (10:14):
Mm hm, and I, you know, little princesses. I'm thinking,
at least I'm hoping that we're now seeing a trend
where it's really about the team and depth, not hey
I just need three big stars. We're seeing it, I
think more and more frequently when it really is the
deeper team, the team that actually compliments each other, that's

(10:37):
coming out on top, rather than hey, we just have
three studs and it don't matter who players four through eight,
R one, two, three are are Hall of famers and
we're gonna we're gonna win. I'm hoping that that is
a trend because I much prefer watching those kind of
teams go at it. I think it's funny that a
lot of people were quote unquote disappointing because it was

(10:57):
Oklahoma and Indiana. This, like you said, this one of
the best finals we've seen in a long time. Give
me this kind of basketball any day over just watching too.
You know, famous clubs go at it. This is the
kind of basketball you want to watch in the finals.
These are the two teams that earned it. These are
the two teams that really battled out. The only thing

(11:18):
that would have made this better again, if it would
have been an overtime game in game seven. I mean,
what what else could you have asked for besides the
no injuries? Right, but besides that, So I'm hoping that's
trying coming up.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, And I mean the one trend to watch really
now is you know, kind of to your point of
these squads being deeper and teams really going for it
because it's been the League of parody now like this is,
you know, a different champion every year now for the
last eight years in a running. And so now this
is gonna be the big test of with OKC, who
is set up because of all these draft picks that

(11:51):
are still incoming, because of obvious the youth still of
Jalen Williams, of chet Holger and of SGA, like these
guys are only in theory gonna get better. So that
is going to be the ultimate test, right, And I
think for a lot of people that's why they're rooting
for India is because, okay, see, feels like they're gonna
have multiple other cracks at this. It did feel like
with Indy and now especially with Halliburton injury unfortunately, like

(12:13):
this might have been their only shot at it for
a little bit or at least with this current group,
like there's still a way to read tool. But you know,
again with Halliburn now out for the entire year, next year,
most likely it does really change, like where you're gonna
push in and max the squad. You know we're gonna, well,
we talk to DEAs of main trade. We're gonna talk
a little more Eastern Conference in depth because it is

(12:34):
just you know, you look around post Halliburton injury now
with Dane Lillard going down, with Jason Tatum going down,
like it's pretty wide open next year, like you have
a lot of different teams who could be in play.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
The bill is due for Oklahoma though, I mean again
Jeded and Jay Williams, they are gonna come up with
You can only do so much in this day and
age with the cap in the aprons, so tough decisions
are going to be made. They can probably squeeze I think,
what maybe more year out of this specific squad before
the tough decisions come right, because one of the big

(13:06):
things is their depth. They've done a really good job drafting.
All those pigs are gonna come into play. So now
do you let go of a case in Wallace who
was excellent do you let go of a door, right
and just start drafting some of those replaces, because you're
gonna have to pay some of these guys money. So
there's only so much you can do in this day

(13:27):
and age. So I'm curious to see how they pivot
when those decisions need to be made for this future squad.
But for the next two or three years, I think
this core can probably stick together. I'm not a Chet's
too for an extension this year, right, he's just Apollo
and so it's Jay. So yeah, actually this summer we're
gonna see some interesting decisions being made.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Yeah. And the good thing with them is at least,
you know, they've had such a good history draft wise
with Sam Presty, Like that's where you can at least
have a little bit of faith, right, is that they've
been able to get these right and hopefully, you know,
for their sake if you're okay, see, you hope that
you run into that like luxury where you almost just
have too many good players because you have all this
just accumulation of picks coming up still, But you're right,

(14:13):
they are going to have to make decisions on these
guys sooner than later. I mean in the grand scheme
of things like look, this is, this is you know,
Sam Presty's made the mountain top. You know, this has
been one of the better run franchises in the NBA
now for twenty years running. You know, we clearly one
of the best draft runs of all time. When you
get Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook and James Harden get
to the finals, obviously it doesn't happen Harding gets traded.

(14:36):
You know, we don't have to rewrite history. But they've
always kind of remained competitive. You know, they decided to
blow it up at the right time, you know, and
again hitting on all these draft picks. So like you said,
being home grown, you know with homebren being a guy
that they've drafted. Jalen Williams is the guy that they drafted,
you know, making the jump to go out and get
SGA pretty early.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
But really I want George undrafted player that they sign.
I mean, really their main seven or eight guys for
the most part are homegrowling. Hartenstein, you know, was signed
as a free agent. I'm trying to think who else
besides him.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Though, was the only only when they made that trade
with Chicago. But again That's That's what I loved about
the hard and shining Carusso moves is because last year,
when it felt like they just didn't have that seasoning
almost where they were all still just very good young players,
he saw the talent. They just went out and got
those two guys who both of those two to me,
are the epitome of you want them for sixteen games,

(15:30):
like they just go out and get it done.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
You know.

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Obviously Caruso, I feel like, you know, he's kind of
been more on the national spotlight for a while now,
but this is certainly a coming out party for him.
A second championship now. I saw he was trolling a
little bit, saying, this is my first real one, you know,
and the first real one. Yeah. I don't know, Lebron's
gonna have something to say about that the next time
they run into each other. But no, I mean, and
then for SGA too, tapping off one of the best

(15:53):
individual seasons we're ever going to see. I mean to
have the MVP, to have the end season tournament, which
again I know we don't rate as high, but they
did go win that. Back in the day, they went
out and you know, winning out and finishing the job
and winning the title here. Yeah, I mean truly like
an all time legacy season, one of the best individual
efforts we've ever seen. Uh, you know, kudos to him again,

(16:15):
you know, stepping up when it mattered. Had a few
rough spots throughout these playoffs for sure. You know, I
think there are always gonna be people who say, you know,
is he really that good? Does he get one of
the best whistles ever? But you know, I feel like,
especially in game four, to me, that's where SGA really
like proved his medal in this series, because Indy had
him on the roads, like they had a chance to

(16:35):
put him down three to one. Given how that last
Game six and Indie played out, it feels like that
would have been a death blow at the time, and
they just needed somebody to step up. They need their
MVP to be that and he wasn't in the final
part of the game like that really that saved that
series for them.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
I feel both stanmans can't be true though, I mean,
he does get a favorable whistle. He is really a
really great player. Okay, Oklahoma City gets away with a lot.
I mean literally yesterday, it's all over, like Twitter or
x Wallace is holding holding the risk of teacher like
just in front of the rev. I mean, they do

(17:11):
get away with a lot. It doesn't change that they
are still a very good team, and they are a
very good defensive team. Unfortunately, everybody falls for what's the
way I'm looking for, Like everybody drinks the kool aid
on these teams. So it's like they're gonna they're a
great defensive team. So maybe that wasn't a foul, right,

(17:34):
even though for a team that maybe is not as
good defensively, they will call that immediately, right, So they
don't they get the benefit of the doubt. That's what
I'm looking for. They get a lot, right, SGA, he
gets it a lot. It is what it is. It
doesn't change the fact that he is a very good player.
Doesn't change the fact that the team was the best
team throughout the entire season. I think both statements can't

(17:56):
be true. It's just not as fun, you know, we
want to pick on them, that's kind of that's what
social media is about. But I think both statements are true.
And again we'll see what they do this summer. I'm
curious to see what these extensions coming up. How do
they act they got a ton of picks. That can't
be bringing on all these first round picks. They got
to be doing something, so some kind of trade is

(18:17):
probably gonna go down.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, And I mean, look, we got a lot. I
always said if they didn't win this year, they were sneaky,
and I knew it obviously got done, but they were sneaky.
Kevin Durant destination for me, I'm like, yo, tell me
that homecoming wind for Katie a little bit. I don't
think that's gonna happen now obviously, And I don't see
them going in for be honest, Like they have the
resources too, loke.

Speaker 1 (18:37):
They got resources galore. They can go but against.

Speaker 2 (18:39):
So evil man if they honness after winning the title,
are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (18:44):
But I don't think that's the way They're builder teams right,
which I was talking about earlier, similar to Indiana, Right,
these teams are building deep teams, eight ten deep players.
They can really do some work. You told me the
Knicks couldn't have use Obi Toppin in the in the
playoffs for sure. Like that's just a perfect example, right,

(19:06):
Like they were focusing on the top five. It's you know, six, seven, eight,
nine at the end of the bench, and it's gonna
really propel you to be a great team. Yes, you
need your starting five, but without depth, you're you're not winning.
And I think, okay, see Indiana are proving these things.

(19:26):
You know, you got your oddities. Like Denver, they just
have like the master Jokers that can do whatever he wants.
But and even that Denver team has a lot of
denary pieces.

Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yeah, that team that won it all like they I mean,
obviously you have Yogach at the top and that certainly
helps a lot. And you and Jamal Murray when he's
playing like a number two. But it's like you look
at Aaron Gordon, you look at KCP how he was
playing on that team, Bruce Brown, Jeff Green, like they
had like that. That's kind of the thing. And obviously
Boston last year prime example of that as well, where
it's like, no, they were just deep from one to eight, both.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
Of those breaks going against them. There's no rans going again.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
And of course just the obvious statement is obvious. But
like when you have a deep roster, it gives you
a lot of leeway with injuries happened during the regular season,
like you can afford for these guys to miss time
and to take those maintenance days. I will say now
with the definitive trend, because I think it was like
eight Achilles injuries this year. If we start seeing cash
strains pop up, I do think that's gonna be a

(20:22):
Now you know what, maybe you should sit this out. Actually,
maybe you shouldn't go gut this through. And look, I'm
not rewriting history, Haliburn. It's Game seven in the NBA Finals,
Like short of his leg not being attached to his
body anymore, I think he was playing basketball, and I'm
not following for that. Like you he said, you knew
what he was doing for this, Yeah, he knew what
he was doing.

Speaker 1 (20:42):
And I had this conversation with my niece yesterday so
that why would he play? I was like, maybe, like
this is what he's worked this entire life for. He
may not get another chance, So what's better the what if?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Of man?

Speaker 1 (20:56):
Maybe I could have played or yeah, he took the
risk of the injury. Unfortunately the injury happened, But I'm
pretty sure he doesn't regret making that decision. Right, I
think that's easier to live with than man. Maybe I
could have gone for it, right, can you imagine if
he sits out Indiana loses by like eight points, what's

(21:17):
he going to be thinking, Man, I could we could
have won if it. I can't imagine I got nine
with that weve nine in me. Yeah, I can't. I
can't imagine living with that kind of pressure of like, man,
I could have done it. I could have gone for it.

Speaker 2 (21:33):
It's one of the few scenarios where I really because
like if this was a first round series, even then
I might hesitate and be like, you know what, this
is Game seven of the NBA Finals is one game,
forty eight minutes. And again, like Halliburn, all time legacy.
Now like I think, you know, casual fans whatever, maybe
like this is one of the most impressive single handedly.

(21:55):
I mean, and again it's way more than how it's
the whole team, right, but truly like one of the
more impressive individual playoff runs I've ever seen. Multiple moments
that are getting talked about for all time. You know, again,
it just thinks because there unfortunately is no moral victories
in this and you're right, like for a franchise that
has never won a championship before, who it had been

(22:16):
twenty five years, you know, INDI's hanging to ABA banners
like you don't know if you're you know, Unfortunately, that's
the that's the cruel part of growing up and becoming
an adult sports fan as you realize like now, you
know what, they may not get a chance at this. Again,
Indy's been a well run franchise over the past fifteen years.
So I think they're.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Really well run. Like, yeah, where has Indie ever actually
been like.

Speaker 2 (22:37):
Bad bad Not recently, I mean a few like up
and down years, but like they had the year with Oladipo. Obviously,
all those Paul George teams are great. Yeah, I mean
the team has always been competitive. They've never quote unquote tanked. Right,
they just they make could moves like they're just a
very smart franchise. They develop players again, great coach, great

(22:59):
front off. Right, So Indy is one of those franchises.
Again it's just ran extremely well citl into Oklahoma City, right,
It's just there was their turn this year. Yeah, for sure,
And I mean again big congrats to the thunder. You
know that this has been I mean really since they
took the hornets in all the way back with Hurricane Katrino, Like,
this has been a basketball of affair in the making

(23:21):
for a long time in Okac. For them to cap
this off like that's an incredible fan base. They deserve
a lot of flowers. We'll see if they get to
keep having these parades and for them, And look, I'm
not even blaming them. I think logistics for something like
a championship arrade take a lot of time. Dude, if
they lost that game when that video came out with
them in the championship buses, man, that would have been

(23:43):
such a blunder. And again I'm not even blaming Okay
see for doing that. I think you have to get it.

Speaker 1 (23:49):
Takes time to do all those things right.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Foot Fleet though, Man, you gotta have that, Like that's
gotta be an area of fifty one levels of secrecy.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
That's a Carlisle genius move. He knows he's been out.
He knows that Indiana they were doing the same thing.
So like it's not but he's gonna use everything he can, right,
So they're underdogs. Smart.

Speaker 2 (24:08):
You gotta throw everything at a wall and see what works.
You know that. That's what we do here on the
Drive toh NBA podcast. My name is Kevin RAYTHEWS my
co host Justin Kuzart is off this week, so again
pinchhitting our guy Andy Jordan at Andy's Magic Minute on Twitter. Again.
You've heard him multiple times here on the podcast. Andy's
our guy. Excited to have him back. We get a
whole lot to talk about again, Kevin Durant trade, desm

(24:30):
Bane trade, the Lakers got sold for ten billion dollars,
which is holy crap, dude. Yeah, and then uh, of
course we got a little bit you know, casual draft
coming up to a little bit later in the week,
so we'll we'll talk a little bit of prospects later.
You know, we're not gonna go super in depth, honestly,
stay tuned for that next week as we kind of
recap a little bit, but you know, we'll give you

(24:51):
a little sampler there in the meantime. Leaves review on
iTunes good to grad or read him on the podcast.
If you're not an Apple user who will play store speakers, Spotify,
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on YouTube, just search drive and dish. NBA podcast now
work more sponsors. All right, so this is kind of

(25:13):
all the words were that it was imminent last week.
That's what we kept here and this has happened in
any day now, but it did actually finally happen, and
that is to Kevin Durant trade as Katie is officially
headed to Houston. First big. I mean, I guess two
blockbusters again already with Desmond Bain. I don't want to
undersell that movie either. We'll get into that here in
a little bit. But the Sun's getting back twenty twenty

(25:35):
five first round pick number ten overall, Dylan Brooks, Jalen Green,
and five future second round picks again, the Rockets just
getting Kevin Durant, you know, casual just getting Kevin Durant.
And again that's where you know, we go back to
Okay scene winning the title and saying nothing is guaranteed,
because wow, I love this for Houston so much, there's

(25:57):
no way around it. Like when all those teams that
came up play with Minnesota and Miami and San Antonio
and all these logical KD spots came up. The whole time,
I'm sitting there going yo, it's Houston Like Houston. It
just made so much sense. They were the number two
last year and just for them, and apparently with a
little help from Kevin Durant too, who is helping the
turning down some of these trade offers. But like you

(26:18):
didn't even really give up anything of no.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Like nothing that hurt nothing. I think that's the key
they look. Brooks is a good player. I'm not necessarily
a fan, but he's productive, he does his thing Genalen Green,
very young, exciting player. Again, I'm not necessarily a huge
fan of his. He's yeah, he is a gunner, right,
but but he is a productive player, right, he does

(26:41):
his thing, right. Maybe it's not necessarily the guy you
build a franchise around. I don't necessarily think he's gonna
stick around in Phoenix. I think Phoenix is gonna try
to flip them. But that's what you gave up, and
a pick that you don't really need. Their team right
now is San Dune and Adams, k d and Jabbari

(27:01):
or you know, Easton and Jabari, more likely Kadi and Cam.
I'm in and read friend Blantpleet and Aaron Holiday. So
if anything, maybe the backup and I like Aaron Holiday
for the record, but if anything, the backup point guard
is probably why they can may try to address it
through a bed or even if you know they get

(27:21):
a nice little draft pick in the second round, there's
some good prospects that are there that can fill in
the whole. That team is ten deep.

Speaker 2 (27:30):
I love it ten deep. You ran through that roster
and the whole time I'm sitting there and just going out,
I love it more and more than I hear it. It
makes so much sense, like it is balanced.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Everything that you need is there. Again, the point guard
situation probably is the one that I would try to address.
You know, Fred is going to be a free agent.
I think he has a team option or a team
option I think this year or player option. I don't
remember which one do. I'm sure that's gonna get picked
up and then that's it. He's a free agent. So
I think that that's something they'll probably need to address.

(28:01):
But besides that, that team is loaded. There's there's no
weak spot on that team at all, and.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Guys are gonna get better. Like that's my thing alone
is it's like a lot like Shane Gun's already number
couldn't play. Yeah, like you got right, Reed might take
the lead, assuming he gives you anything. I'm still pretty
high on Cam. I think Cam is gonna be a
good player. What's he gonna do again? Thompson? What did
he look at? What he showed you last year? He
was the main breakout guy. And he's the one who's

(28:29):
got really like the most potential here besides KD. Like,
if you're talking about the three that matter, it's Thompson,
shang Gun and Durant. But like, oh my god, it
just it makes so much sense and it is a getting.

Speaker 1 (28:43):
I think Jabar is getting a raw deal. I get
it right when you compare him to the other guys
that were there, when the talks about having potential number one,
he en't close to mont Ghetto. He ain't close to chet.
I get that. He's still a twelve and eight guy,
plays great defense, good to great. I'll give him that.
Goods great. He's twenty one years old. Yeah, he's still

(29:04):
a baby.

Speaker 2 (29:04):
That's a he's still a kid.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
And you don't need him to be you know, Bankhetto.
You don't need him to be checked right now. He's
he's got a loaded team. He just needs to be
a fifteen and eight guy with great defense and shoot
thirty eight percent from three. That's all you need from him.
If you're Houston so if he gives you that with
the rest of the team, then yeah, that was a
good draft pick. Like you can argue about all they could.

(29:30):
He's doing what he needs to do. So if you're
Houston again, it's all about the team. My team's working.
I don't care if I got him in the first round,
second round, eighteenth pick. He's doing what I need him
to do for our team to be successful. So I'll
give some love to Jabari because I think he gets
a row with the being compared to a stud like
Bankhetto and Check.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Yeah, you're right, the comparison there are just the draft
with those two be an instant in pac Iyes probably
didn't help Guy. And I remember it, man, I mean
he was projected even day of like there were people,
a lot of smart people who still had him going
number one, and.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I thought he was going number one. I'm not. I
can't it's on video. I think it's either on your
podcast on chases one of the two I had him
going number one. I really felt like like that was
going to be the safe pick, and I felt like
that was what Orlando was going to go by, was
being to Thank God, I was wrong, Thank you, thank you,
that's why I'm not a GM. But I believed in

(30:24):
Franz a lot too, so I kind of felt like, look,
this is a safe pick. I think Franz is still
going to get better. That part I was proven right,
but clearly I I'm ghetto.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
It is.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
It's not even not an argument. It's no discussion. People try,
but there's no discussion. But the best player in that
draft is ten times over. It's it's not it's a
it's a non deal breaker.

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Yeah, no one. And I mean looks in a great
situation there too, and they allowed him that time to
develop a little bit. And weirdly, you know that sees
it off with with getting injury in the summertime. It
may have helped too with his development. But the thing
with Houston too, obviously extremely coach, like you may dope
as a phenomenal head coach. It feels like he's gonna
be able to manage these minutes in terms of having

(31:06):
eight or nine deep, like you said, there won't be
any clash there. To me, it's just about keeping KD healthy.
Like that's the only downside we've seen the past few
years is that he's just picked up injury every year.
When he played though, Like I know that Phoenix team
was a mess, and like they just they were one
of the most like in his season of disappointing teams,
they were right up there. And that's really saying something.

(31:27):
But it was because KD was bad. Kevin Durham was
still very very good.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
So yeah, look, anybody who knows anything off basketball saw
that coming him all the way. It just it didn't match. Again,
I talked about it earlier. It's all about the team
death and the compliment each other. That team did not
compliment each other. Again, it wasn't that KD wasn't good
on his own. It wasn't that Book wasn't good on
his own. Just doesn't compliment. Those pieces just don't go together, right.

(31:54):
It's like having a steak, but instead of getting a
you know, bike potato to have a scoop of ice cream,
Like they're both good, it just doesn't necessarily go together.
That's kind of my analogy for what Phoenix did. It
wasn't that the two guys weren't great, it's just it
didn't mesh. That is not the problem that Houston has.

(32:15):
This meshes perfectly. So again, I think Houston's a very
scary team, and they still have all of those access
like we talked about, they got canned, they got real,
they got all these pigs. Who's to say, who's to
say they don't get involved if Boston starts shopping Drew
Holliday because of the cap reasons, Now you know what,

(32:35):
we can use another betpoint guard to run this team.
They have all the assets that they need to get
anything else they want to add to that team. Not
that the team needs much No.

Speaker 2 (32:45):
And I don't think they're gonna take a big swing too,
but like I mean, they could even I mean, you
messed Drew Holiday. Shoot, if Jalen Brown becomes available, you
can if we take a swing, if you want to
get frisky, if leave, they're still enough like I and again,
depth is the theme of the shoo. I don't know
if that's the right call. Yan is different story honest,
Like I'm not gonna ever say, don't go to be honest,

(33:06):
Jaylen Brown are more a little like it's it's do
I want the depth or do I want the top? Heavy?
Like I love jb Finals if you get honest, oh
yeah for sure, it's honest.

Speaker 1 (33:17):
Man, Yeah, I mean I love Gianni bro you know
how I feel.

Speaker 2 (33:20):
Like, but there there aren't many players that I give
up everything for. He's one of them.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
Like they can do that, they can literally say, you
know what, I know, Shangun's a stud and he's young. Yeah,
I'm gonna go for it now.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
Now.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
I don't think they will. I think they're smart enough
to say our window, and this is kind of what
I liked about what Orlando did. Our window. It is
not a one to your window. It's not tied to
Kevin Durant. If Kevin Durant leaves Houston, Walker is still
a very good team with a ton of assets to

(33:53):
get better. That's the big difference. That's what made this
deal so huge in my opinion for them is that
I made my window immediately now to win, But in
five years I'm still gonna be a good team.

Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, you're not a Phoenix who went all in on
this squad last year. Right now, when we look back,
it's like, I mean, they say they're going to keep
Jalen Green. I think they should move Jalen Green, to
be honest, And that's not even anything. And full disclosure,
I'm probably lower on Jalen Green than most people, but
I still think, like you said, they're still upside there.
He's proven that he can score if nothing else in
this league, like when he's had a major opportunity like

(34:29):
he did in Houston, and just again because of his age,
Like I feel like there are teams that should take
a swing on him. And I think if your Phoenix,
you just got to restop, Like that's the biggest thing
is It's like, hey, oh.

Speaker 1 (34:39):
They have wings, Yeah they have They have Nick Richards
as their center, which again I like him, he's not
I wouldn't necessarily call him a very good starting caliber.
He's a great backup center. Everything else is a wing. Like,
who's their point guard? Is it? H what's his name?

(35:00):
He came he came with the Nick Richard's deal. It's
a horn He used to be a hornet, Milick Millick,
Oh yeah, Michice. Yeah, that's really the only point guard
on that team. Everything else Brooks, you're gonna move.

Speaker 2 (35:15):
Booker over back like Booker's played point in the past.
But it's like, I.

Speaker 1 (35:20):
Don't think you make the Houston deal if you're if
your goal was then to move brook I think they're
really trying to stay afloat and at least be somewhat
competitive now they again they're Lord Roys O'Neill. Look, if
you Phoenix, Phoenix should try to flip Roys O'Neill and
get themselves a really good lock thread shot blocking cheap

(35:45):
starting center. I know someone who has one, but I'm
just saying that would be a great move for them,
And I would love Roys O'Neil and Orlando right here.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
I think Phoenix should be trying to sell everything. Yo,
You're right, like this roster just does makes sense. Is
it's currently applied like you basically like you have Grayson Allen,
you have Bradley Beals. Yeah, and like they had right,
Like some of these guys will get stuff back, but
it's like, you're not gonna move book Like, I just
I don't think that's on the table right now. He's
still so young that it's like I'm not ready to

(36:17):
give up on Devin Booker yet.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
But he's fine. I don't. I don't think he's putting
pressure on them to get moved. I think he enjoys
being the alpha in Phoenix. I mean, he's got nine
years there. It makes sense.

Speaker 2 (36:31):
It's just crazy, Like when you think back at that
Bucks series and go that Phoenix team with Devin Booker
was up to to Ozho on the Bucks and two
games away from winning the finals, and it just has
never gotten close since, like that, between that getting clashed
by Dallas, like example thirty eighth, when going all in
does not work out, you traded everything and you got

(36:55):
rid of all your depth, all your great role players.

Speaker 1 (37:00):
It's easy to say in hindsight, but again you you
did it on your own, Like you had a team
that went to the finals that was built on just young,
deep individuals, like just you had an answer for everything
and you got it that to try to speed up

(37:21):
your process, you weren't patient, you know.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
Man.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
You can argue some franchise have been too patient, but
they could have just waited another year or two. And
I think we see Phoenix totally different at this point.

Speaker 2 (37:35):
Yeah, No, I mean I think that because even when
you move for Durant, it was the like you gave
up a lot to get Kevin Durant, and that's the
majority of it is where you empty the war chest.
But it's also the Bradley Beal deal too. It's like
you tripled down and Bradley Beal again, greatest agent of
all time. I mean, dude, shout out to that contract.
I mean the no move flaws in there, like my

(37:57):
guy doing whatever he wants, like Proba gonna eat this
agent is still the greatest agent of all time.

Speaker 1 (38:03):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, right, that's fair. Shout that's coming up too. Oh man,
that's soon. I think that's in, Like the week is
coming up. God man. Well, truly one of my favorite
days of the year. But and yeah, it's just it's rough.
There's no way around it. I mean, the team is
not gonna stink, but it does feel like they're just
they're drifted sea. There's no clear direction of what's going

(38:26):
on in Phoenix right now.

Speaker 1 (38:28):
And let's see it again, let's see what they do.
But I again, I don't think they're gonna bottom and out.
I think they'll be somewhat competitive. They'll be in the
playing picture. They may make the plane, which as a
Magic fan, I'm all for that, because then that pick
we gave up for vaying one hurt as much. I
never thought Phoenix was just gonna throw it in. When
you're in a second apron like they are, it's hard

(38:49):
to do that. Yeah, because you're stuck for once. So
their best option is to try to retool the fact
that you have Devin book and there, try to tool
rather than yeah, we're just gonna start all over from scratch.
You can't really do that in their situation. They got
way too many guys that are locked up. But you
what I thought about Sacramento for a while, like they

(39:11):
had too many big contracts locked up month the bonus,
like they're not just gonna blow it up. They were
gonna try to retool. They gave up you know, Fox
and again bat trade. You already saw what DeRozan and
Levin did together. Why would you go down that route again?
Beats me? But weren't gonna blow it up? Oh, they

(39:31):
got forced more or less. I mean, Darren Fox, like
I'm weirdly because you're right. I mean, there was a
part of me it's like, yeah, why would you rebuild
that Chicago Bulls team?

Speaker 2 (39:40):
But it was so clear to me that Fox was leaving.
I did think Levine could be a productive player there,
and I'm like, you know what, let's see how disappoints.

Speaker 1 (39:49):
On your show. I talked about Levine and Young and
about how I feel about them. Levin is gonna produce.
Labin ain't gonna win. Yeah, yeah, he's going to produce.
He's he's a great talent. He's going to put up stats.
He'll win new games. He ain't winning winning counts.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
Yeah, you're right, it's tough. I mean, a monk is
a guy that you maybe could move and I think
start to get some pieces back. There are a lot
of teams would be interested in him. But let's switch
gears a little bit, like, look, Andy, we know why
we're here right now. Desmond Bain trade obviously a huge
swing for the Magic the Grizzlies in return getting Cole Anthony,
Contagi's Calwell Pope four first round picks sixteen and twenty

(40:28):
twenty five and then unprotected in twenty six, twenty eight,
and thirty. There's a first round swap there in twenty
twenty nine. But obviously this is a big move for Orlando.
You know, casep the biggest acquisition for the franchise last year.
Cole Anthony a guy who's been you know, one of
the faces if you will, of this rebuild a little

(40:48):
bit obviously, you know, for those not watching all the stream,
Andy throwing the herd up, you know, definitely a guy
who's who's made an impact on the fan base, who's
really like kind of it felt like he was the
first one of these young guys like really into being
on the Magic, even when it wasn't always cool to
be on the Magic, like it kind of is now
Apollo and Franz. But here we are, I mean too
obviously a big ship for Memphis. And we're gonna talk

(41:10):
grizz here in a little bit too, because obviously, like
after their early exit, we knew there was a big
shake up and here we are Desmond Bane, that is
quite the shakeup. But I mean, look, the floor is yours.
Tell me how you're feeling with the Magic had on literally,
but I mean before we get too far, like I mean,
it's it's a risk. But like I love Desmond Baine,
Like there's the I a noted Desmond Bain fan on

(41:31):
this podcast.

Speaker 1 (41:32):
Dang, I've been a Desmond Bain fan since TCU. I
just love his game. I love how he plays. If
you you know, Jeff Wellman kind of said it, if
you had to design a perfect player for the Magic,
it's basically Despin Baine. It is on paper, he is
an absolute perfect fit to what we currently have and

(41:55):
addresses pretty much every need that this team desperately need. Right,
So I think that's a huge, huge win for the
matchup when it comes to that, and when it comes
to the price. Look, I was in church when I
got the tweet on my phone. When I saw four picks,
I go, what the Lord, I'm sorry, I'm like I was,

(42:19):
I was shocked. But then you start reading into it's like, okay, wait,
let's think about this. First of all, we had two
picks this year, so giving up sixteen doesn't really hurt
as much. You have twenty five, fine, so then you
have the other three. One of them is that Phoenix swap. Again.
I never thought Phoenix was gonna bottom out, so most
likely that pick maybe in the high lottery, maybe just outside,
so that may maybe another number sixteen or eighteen pick.

(42:42):
Then you got the other one. Well, if it works out,
they're gonna be laid picks anyway, so I'm not stressing
about that. But Bean is locked up. I think that's
the I'm gonna mentioner a little bit earlier about when
you go for KD it's a one year, two year window. No,
this guy's locked up for the next four years, next
three or four seasons if I'm mistaken, So our window

(43:03):
is not being just expanded for one season and then,
oh my god, what are we gonna do if it
doesn't work out? No, that's my band is gonna be
entering his prime years. He's gonna be twenty seven, twenty eight,
twenty nine, thirty. Right, he's gonna be in his prime
years in a Magic uniform. So he's locked up. I
think that's why you pay the price that you pay.

(43:26):
It wasn't a one year rental, it wasn't a two
year rental. Yes, you pay some of that price for
getting rid of kcp's contract, who just frankly didn't work
out here. I didn't hate the move for KCP last year.
I thought it was a good move. He was great
for thirty nine games. He was really bad for thirty eight.
So that's exact point. We can't afford that, right, We're

(43:49):
not the team that can afford that. We needed him
to be great for sixty five plus games, not thirty nine.
Hopefully in Memphis it works out for him. Call I
love call. I still haven't broken into my daughter. That's
her favorite player that he is no longer on the team.
I still don't know how I'm gonna do that, so
wish me luck when that happens. But I think Cole again,

(44:13):
last year probably was his career worst year. He's a
year removed from playing eighty one games. Give you twelve points,
four rebounds, three assists, shooting thirty five percent from three
off the bench.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
That's solid.

Speaker 1 (44:24):
So I think calls a valuable player. But I think
the price is definitely worth it for being the Magic
just got a guy that addresses pretty much every issue
that we've had, and it's going to open up the flour,
not just for the obvious, you know, Pollow and Franz.
It's gonna help out sucks, sucks, and I just focus
on being chaotic and doing what he does best, disrupt

(44:49):
getting people's heads like that's what he does. And yeah,
you'll make those threes, you'll make those plays. I think
that's gonna help them. Helps our death. Right now, you've
got four great players for the most part on the
offense side. There is no reason why at least two
of those guys are now on the floor at the
time where was an issue for the Magic in the past,
where it's Franz and then four of our bench guys,

(45:11):
or following four of our bench guys, or sometimes we
gotta break everyone, so it's just our full bench unit playing.
And I like our bench players, but that's a lot
to ask for role players to carry an entire you know, offense,
or entire lineup when that's not really what they're supposed
to be, right, They're supposed to be role players. They're
supposed to, Hey, I'm going to do this, I'm gonna

(45:33):
do this part. So it's a lot to ask for them.
When you take some of those players away from from
the from that unit, you don't have that issue anymore.
You got Sugs, Bain, Franz, Pollow at the very least one,
if not two of those guys are going to be
on the floor at the time. That elevates your bench
tremendously so and they still have other moves that they

(45:53):
can make, right, So I'm I'm excited. I definitely see
them as be in a top team in the Eastern Conference.
Injuries are not that team will still would have been
in my opinion, and yeah, maybe I'm biased, but they've
proven that they can hang with the best of them
when they're healthy, and that's the key for pretty much

(46:13):
any team right now, it seems like if you're healthy,
what does your talent dictate? When the Magic are healthy,
they can hang with anybody in the East.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Yeah, I mean, there's no doubt about it. And again
the Halley injury certainly changes things. I mean, and again
I'm almost glad in a way now that we're recording
this podcast. You know with post that injury, you know
it really now you look at the Magic, you already
felt like they were going to be better next year,
that they were already pushing in by going out and
getting Desibane. Like I said, you don't trade four first

(46:44):
round picks if you're not pushing in a little bit.
But the conference is wide open now, Like I look
around and I go the only team post as a
MAJRA that I think is definitively better than Orlando at
this point is the Knicks. I'm still giving the Knicks
even without a coach, that benefit of the doubt. Boston
is gonna be competitive, but again not Tatum next year
most likely huge loss. You don't know what they're gonna

(47:06):
do with Drew, with al with KP, Like, there are
a lot of questions now in Boston INDI's now down
Hallie the Bucks if they keeping is still gonna be competitive,
but down Dame Lillard the Sixers. Willing even got into them, like,
you know, I'm not giving them any benefit of the doubt.

Speaker 1 (47:21):
And so at that point, like that is a regular
season team.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
That's my thing with Cleveland. It's like, right, I'm they're
speaking of another team that I'm not giving any benefit
of the dout too, Like they're going like again, right,
regular season, Sure they're gonna be competing, They're gonna be
there with everybody, but I'm not giving them that after
the way they went out to Indye this past So yeah,
you're right, Like it feels like it's wide open. Like
Miami certainly, it feels like they're on the decline. You know,
maybe somebody makes the leap this year, but there's nobody

(47:45):
in the East there jumping. It was a.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
Strange season from Miami. I it I couldn't figured that out,
Like it wasn't. I didn't expect them to play the
way they played, like I really expect it always at
some point, all right, here comes Miami. Okay, maybe not yet,
all right here comes March. You're a right, Miami's gonna
turn it on now, Okay, maybe not April. Definitely Miami's

(48:08):
gonna get well and they never did and they usually do,
so that that was kind of shocking to me.

Speaker 2 (48:15):
Well, and now it's at the point too with Jimmy gone,
it clearly changes the window for this team. I mean,
they got to get somebody around Hero and Bam. But
it's like, even with their ages, it's like, is that
somebody out there? Like again in the Kevin Durant sweepstakes.
But that's another example of them not landing the plane recently.
I don't blame them as much what with Dame. I
think there was just no planet where Portland was trading

(48:36):
them out, like Portland just said, hey, we're not doing
this basically like they go.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
To Portland and Portland has done well.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
Yeah, I'm still a little bitter because it ended up
it ended with Drew getting rerouted to Boston. So with
my Homer hat on, I'm like, hey man that maybe
that probably put Boston over the top. I don't know
about that. But either way though, like, yeah, I love
this move for Orlando. What do you think? So I
know we talked a little off Mike about this, but

(49:04):
you know, now with the dust settled, what does this
team need to fill out the roster.

Speaker 1 (49:10):
I think we need a veteran point guard. I trust
a b but I see it be more as a
wing player that can handle the ball. He can initiate offense.
I wouldn't necessarily call him like what you traditional point guard?
If you give me a wish list, look man, Like,
if I can somehow convince CP three to come to
Orlando for a bet, I mean that's ideal. Is that

(49:33):
gonna happen? Probably not, But I think that's something they
can address, whether they address it in the draft. Right
if they get a A Clinton junior and get him obviously
he's not a bet, but he is a real point guard.
I think that helps Orlando. Biggs are bigs. Unfortunately, I
have been injured most coming back from a major injury.
When Dell is constantly injured, you can pretty much pencil

(49:57):
him in for losing thirty to forty games a year.
Go go. I love what Goga has given us, but
it almost seems like that's what he gives you, right,
and he gives you like thirty to forty really good games,
and then he kind of, you know, has those other
games where he's just okay for lack of a better term.
So I do think those are probably the two biggest need.

(50:19):
I like the way our bench looks. I don't think
we have a every liar will score off the bench,
which for all the upside down and call Anthony that
at least was his skill set. Call Anthony had the
skill set of like give him the ball, he can
create his own shot. Was it always successful, No, but
he could create his own offense. We don't really have

(50:42):
any other bench that can do that more, Vagner being
probably the closest, but he's really a post player, but
he can definitely get his buckets. So I think those
are the probably the things that they need to address.
How they go about that, I mean, they got avenues,
but I think those are probably the biggest things that
they need to address. I think some of the bench
scoring is going to get a leevia for the fact,
like I mentioned earlier, at least one, if not two

(51:05):
of our core guys is going to be on the
floor at all times, so that that create your own
offense thing. It's not as painful because you have one
of those guys on the floor constantly.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Now on the flip side of the coin, you know,
going over to Memphis here a little bit obviously bringing KCPN.
But you know, this is a franchise that you know,
big expectations a few years ago in twenty twenty two,
you know, is John Morant's breakout year. Obviously, Desmon Baine
is a big part of that too. I mean, that's
really one of the bigger reasons I'm so high on
in Bain is because the Moran went out and the

(51:37):
Grizzly season was supposed to crater. It didn't because Jared
Jackson were awesome, and so you know that goes a
long way to my belief in him as well. But
you know, there was the question because like, look, they
got in is an eight seed. It wasn't just another
disappointing exit, like they haven't really reached the heights that
it feels like they were supposed to. You know, obviously

(51:57):
a late firing of Taylor Jenkins as well. But now
here is the big shake up that you know, we
knew this roster is getting shaken up. There were a
lot of Josh smoke, but now here we go with
Desmond Baine. You know, obviously, you know, super restocking the
war chest. They're getting all those picks like that is
great for them.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
You know, they they do really well with their picks.
I mean they're smart, they're they're like Indie. They do
a really good job in drafting. Jalen Wells was a
guy that they got that a lot. I was big
on him and a lot of people were just like,
who's this guy. Look, they got Triple G. Like, they
got some really good, talented young players, And I think
getting the picks was big for them because they do
trust how they how well they do draft and they

(52:41):
develop players. But I think Memphis is going to be
okay again. I do think the front office for the
most part. The Taylor Jenkins final is really weird for me.
I think he's a really good coach. If I'm the Knicks,
that's probably who I'm making a call to, which means
the Nicks are probably not going to do that. But
I think Memphis is heading in the right direction again.

(53:04):
They're gonna retool. We got Jah, we got Triple J.
We got the two hardest pieces, right. You got your stars.
Now you need to build your role players around them, right,
Simill to Orlando, we got Franz, We got Paolo now
we've got to build around them. That's usually the harder
piece they have that So now it's just a matter
of getting those potential role players, the guys that complementary

(53:27):
players that are gonna elevate that team. And I think
that's the way they're going. I don't they're not rebuilding,
they're gonna.

Speaker 2 (53:35):
Retool, and I think it is. It's a big vote
of confidence. And the two guys you just mentioned, like
Jared Jackson there, that's less of a surprise. I mean
the big thing now is he's just gonna get paid,
Like they'll be able to get him back on that
contract and you know he'll be ready to rock. It's
really though, the bigger vote of confidence is in Jahn Moran. Right.
Like with Jahn Moran, you know, there's just been a

(53:57):
lot of questions, like not even just beyond the off
the court stuff, it's been with injury and durability, Like
he's missed a large amount of time these last few
games or these last few seasons, excuse me. And when
he's missed those that time, you know his shooting is
kind of slumped with it too, So like that's the
double way at me. And when he's such an act,
like he's one of those guys where the game is

(54:17):
based on that supreme athleticism, like Jah Moran is one
of the better athletes in the NBA. We also unfortunately
know that that's just the type of player that can
decline kind of quickly. So like, I do think there's
a greater school of thought, as crazy as it sounds,
that Memphis maybe should have given a Ja Morant moving on,
Like is that the superstar you trade?

Speaker 1 (54:38):
Now?

Speaker 2 (54:39):
Do you keep Bane and Jackson and fill out the roster?
I also get why you may not do that, Like
John Morant, such a fan favorite, has been the guy
you've around.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
This is this will be the wrong time to trade him, right, Yeah,
So the ideal time to trade him, following that logic
would be comes back next year he proves he still jaw,
your team is doing well, then you have to make
a decision like do I sell high now and then
just continue building around Triple J and whoever I'm getting
back from job or No, we like him and we're

(55:10):
gonna stick with him, and that's our dude. But right now,
if you were selling him, you you wouldn't get nearly
as much as you could.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Maybe a year from them. Yeah, I don't disagree with
that if he bounces back and he's still twenty five
years old, Like, I don't want to act like the
book is written on John Moran already, like we've certainly
seen it. Yeah, just slumping a little bit last year.
I mean the three point has just been a mess
for three seasons unfortunately. Like he's the best he shot
is thirty percent in the last three seasons from me

(55:40):
on the arc, like it's yeah, and again with the
athleticism is going and that's where when he's healthy. But
you know, again, fifty seven games played fifteen or sixty
one games, nine games, fifty games like and again with
the suspension in there too, that is worth qualifying. But
like there's a for sure notable injury risk here. You know,

(56:01):
hopefully he bounces back. Like I'm still rooting for John Moran.
I think he's one of the more exciting players in
the league when he's clicking it. And you know, again,
maybe that big vote of confidence helps there, Like that's
been you know, we knew this team was going to
make a change. It's made now. I don't think they're
gonna do anything else drastic. It's gonna be all about
filling out the rest of the roster, and so yeah,

(56:22):
we'll see what goes there. KCP is a good bet,
like we said, Cole Anthony can give them a punch
off the bench. Hopefully it works well. Like you said,
I still am stunned that KCP just kind of had
a rough year in Orlando, Like he really was the
perfect fit.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Everyone had a rough year though. I think that's the
part that I stress on, Like every a, every the
vast majority of the players I would sit close to
eighty ninety percent of the players of the Orlando Magic
last year shot career worse. So when that happens, look,
it is solely related to the fact that Franz and
Polo and Sucks missed so much time and Mo maybe

(56:56):
right that that would make sense, but went to l
had a career low Ji had a curlyl And these
guys are not even like great shooters. So when a
not great shooter has a career worse, that's how you
end up shooting like the Orlando Magic shot, right. So
I think those are the things KCP was close to
a careers. I think only maybe his rookie or his

(57:18):
second year was the worst year. He has such a
great second half. I think he was close to fifty
percent if I'm not mistaken. So such a great second half,
and he still only ended up like below thirty four.
So I think KCP will be fine law of averages.
But again, you had a guy that was already past

(57:39):
his prime years and you just flipped him along with
other things for a guy entering his prime. So I
think that's the huge difference and why this is such
a win for Orlando in my opinion. You got a
guy that compliments your two star players. He is twenty
six going on twenty seven, and he's locked up not

(58:00):
going anywhere. So I think this was a great move
by Orlando. It was a wise move by Orlando. Announced
the time now, Now is the time coach. Coach mostly
is the one that all right, now, you got all
the pieces, You've done a good job so far. Now
we're gonna see what what you really can do when
you have so much talent around you.

Speaker 2 (58:19):
I feel like him, and I feel like, do you
feel like there's a lot of pressure because Franz has
been great? Do you feel like there and I feel
like going into the season, there would have been more
of a focus on him to be like, all right, Franz,
it's time to step up now and be that number
two for sure, Like we know, we know Paulo's that guy,
do we like, do you feel like there's any pressure
on Franz or do you feel like that desm Bine
trade like was kind of great in that regard to

(58:40):
because it alleviates it a little bit where it's like, no, hey,
Franz happing it off to night you have that other
scoring punch. Now.

Speaker 1 (58:45):
I look, man, I have the utmost respect for Franz.
I don't think pressure gets to him. I think he
is that dude. I think he's just built that way.
Similar to to Polo, Franz could be a number one
learn any other team if he if given the opportunity.
He proved it here right, Paula goes down, Franz is
going nuts up like he's you know, all NBA level

(59:08):
player for those weeks that he was playing. So I
don't I don't think that gets to him. You talking
about the guy that leads the German team, like, I
don't think those things get to Franz. I think Franz
thrives off that. So I don't think that's an issue.
Do I think he welcomes someone as talent that is bane,
of course, because it will make him a little bit easier. Right,
Those driving lanes that somehow he can get in and

(59:29):
finish with the best of them, are just going to
be a little more open now, right, because now you're
afraid of despin Baine at the wing at the top
of the key, right, just waiting for an open shot
to drain. So I don't I don't think pressure gets
to France. I don't. I don't think he feels that
at all. I think he lives off that stuff.

Speaker 2 (59:48):
Yeah, I mean, certainly, Listen, euro Basket Franz is a
different animal whenever he gets over there. You mentioned with
Team Germany, No doubt about that, all right, So before
we get out of here, we do want to switch
gears a little bit. We're gonna go into the draft.
Like we said, this isn't gonna be like your heavy
every prospect breakdown. We just frankly, there was too much else,
real stuff that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
Happened in the league.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
So we'll get after that a little bit later. Uh.
You know, first two picks, Cooper Flag Dylan Harper probably
going to you know, Dallas in San Antonio, respectively. I
still have so many thoughts about Dallas winning the lottery,
but we don't need to. I don't need to put
my tinfoil hat on at the end of the episode.
The biggest Injurgue right now is Ace Bailey, right like,
Ace Bailey has canceled all of his workouts with everybody,

(01:00:30):
And so again my sixers are sitting there at three.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
You know, did DJ and run Bro?

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
Yeah, I mean I've touched right now.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
It's obviously we don't know what goes on in the background, fairness, right,
we don't know what conversations. But from the outside looking
in all this stuff that we're re eating, all this stuff,
I wouldn't touch Pace right now.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
I'm only worried too, because it felt like in the
past two weeks like Ace has been falling pretty quickly,
like Harp, Like Ace was pretty locked in at number
three behind Cooper and Harper. And I mean I've seen
boards with him as like lowess six and seven now
And it's not because there's a part of me it's like, well,
this is just an NBA draft prospect saying hey, like
I am who I am? You guys all know what

(01:01:12):
it is, like does any of this really matter? But
you're right, like, there is a big part of me
that's like it wasn't nobody else's.

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
It wasn't like you lit it up in college. I mean,
he's excited all but look at his stats, look at
his shooting percentages, Like it wasn't like, oh my god,
Ace Bailey has been amazing. Rutgers under it, Rutgers was
under five hundred. Like, I'm sorry, if I'm ready to
invest millions of dollars in a high pick, I'm gonna
take everything into consideration. So again, we don't know the

(01:01:43):
things that are going on in the background, what conversations
are being had with agents and ownerships and gms. But
based on what we see, I wouldn't touch Ace at
three at four five, I like the way Washington's rolling,
I wouldn't touch them with washing some sin spiky. If
I'm Washington, I don't mess with that nice little gel

(01:02:05):
that you have going on there and bringing in Ace Bailey.
That that's my opinion. But again I state that with
we don't know what's going on in the background, so
but based on what we see and what we read, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Just it's just interesting too, because like they were talking
about him like gaming the system a little bit and
like trying to like control his destination, maybe even fall
all the top five so he won't stay on the
East coast. But then why would you cancel a visit
with Philly? Like that's the team you're gonna cancel a
visit with?

Speaker 1 (01:02:33):
Like Okay, if you say you want to be behind
Paul George like it is that you're reasoning for it,
then that's.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
What weird reasoning.

Speaker 1 (01:02:42):
And for me, that's a huge fight set with that.
I wouldn't want you, bro, Like, if you want to
come here to win, let's win. If you are more
worried about I need to shine, that is not who
I'm drafting at three. And that's all the stuff we're reading,
that's what is indicating, like, Hey, I want to be
the dude. I want to be the one that's being showcased.

(01:03:03):
I want to make my personal star shine the brides.
Oh I ain't drafting you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
Yeah, And I mean again with a guy like VJ.
Edgecombe on the board, like you know you're not gonna
really mess around with that one as much Like this
this is a much better draft overall than it was
last year, Like you can get a talented player up top,
I mean to be honest, Like it is interesting too
with the intrigue. Maybe maybe less now with the rant
off the board for san Antonio, but like there's a

(01:03:32):
chance in san Antonio and Philly move out of two
and three too, like Dallas is not moving with Cooper.
But I mean, and I still feel like san Antonio
is gonna ta Dylan Harper, Like after you don't move
for Durant unless you're unless you were straight up trading
for your honest.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
What do you do with san Antonio with Fox, Harper
Passel like like it that.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
They need to make a move, It gets repetitive. I'm
with you. I don't think you pass on Harper or
for that reason.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
I take and you figure it out later.

Speaker 2 (01:04:03):
But you're right, it does feel like at some point
they need to like kind of build that identity there
a little bit, and they certainly pushed in a little
more with Aaron Fox, like you put him with Wemby,
Like that's more of a like, hey, let's start winning
some games now, like it is time. It's been you know,
we're going on year three of Wemby. You know, once
he's back. They haven't made the playoffs yet, so I
think there is a little desire to get that experience

(01:04:23):
now with Philly. I could see it more a little
bit if you've got a chance to move back to
like six or seven, if you've got somebody you really like,
and maybe pick up an extra pick there along the way,
just because like, I don't know, they're in such a
weird spot right now because of just like there's a
large part of me that says, hey, you should just

(01:04:45):
blow this up and go young, and like that's where
it's like, hey, you move on from Joel, you move
on from Paul George. The problem is, no one on
earth has taken the like you talk about job Moran
after last season. No one on Earth has taken those
contracts right now, not without giving up everything that you've
just talked about. Back are you going to move to
or you're gonna move Jared McCain, Like that doesn't feel
like they're there at that point.

Speaker 1 (01:05:04):
And there's they're moving back makes a lot of sense
for Philly, assuming assuming somebody wants to move up, right,
because again, they got McCain, they got Max, they got
Paul George, they got embat on paper. There's a lot
of talent there. They can probably benefit from a more
rugged four. But you can get that at ten, at eleven, twelve, right,

(01:05:25):
you don't. You don't need to get that at three.
It will be a reach if you pick one of
those forwards at three. So it would make sense for
them to kind to flip, you know, what makes sense
for them, try to get you know, I want, I
love Royce O'Neill, so please don't take Rose on. But
if they get something with Phoenix, when you get a
Royce O'Neill back and maybe pick up their ten, Phoenix

(01:05:48):
move all the way up to three. Now they can
target somebody else. Now, fortunately the best player there is
a wing and they got wings galore. So probably, now
that I'm thinking about it, that may not make sense
for Phoenix, but I think that would be a good
smart move for phillyus trying to gather more assets, because
you're right, they're stuck with their roster that this is

(01:06:08):
who they have and they're going to have to make
that work.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
One way.

Speaker 1 (01:06:12):
You're not getting anything for Paul George or embiid.

Speaker 2 (01:06:15):
No, you have to. I mean, Joelle has a shot
if he comes back and play healthy and you can, Like,
I don't think it's gonna be like the earth shattering
return you would have gotten for him, say even two
years ago, where it's like, no, you'd have gotten everything
on earth for him, you know, because of the contract
now with the extension Paul Georgia, right, because I mean
Paul George, Like, look when he signed that contract with us,

(01:06:36):
I think most of the fan base was like, hey,
that contract is probably gonna stink in yours four and
at five, but like, give me one or two years
at least. So far, the first year was an abject failure.
So you know, maybe you get something out of the
second year. We'll see.

Speaker 1 (01:06:51):
It never really got off the ground. You're a Philly fan.
I've always want to ask you this from youve. Was
the process worth it?

Speaker 2 (01:06:58):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Is the short version of pause.

Speaker 1 (01:07:01):
I see it consistently good but never getting there.

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
But I don't think it was because of the Like
the process to me was about the line of thinking
them never getting there was because it's for two main
reasons they never got there. Part of it was self sabotage,
like the consistent shooting themselves in the foot. I mean,
it's trading Michael Bridges on draft night, it's picking wrong
with Jimmy Butler. Unfortunately, it's Tobias getting the max Steel.
It's but it's little things too. It's it's a guy

(01:07:25):
granted he didn't play in Game seven, but like it's
letting Isaiah Joe go to Oklahoma City for nothing when
he gave you productive minutes off the bench. It's those
little moves where you lose. The other reality too, is
the part of it where it's added their control. It's unfortunately,
just the way it played out is it's like, look,
Ben Simmons and Markel Foltz just both busted. Like they

(01:07:45):
both if they pan out to what we thought they
were gonna be, then I think this entire outcome is
radically different. Like it's very rare, Like you look back
at all the number one picks, like how many of
them truly just haven't lived up to the hype. There
aren't many, Like there aren't many where you just haven't
either just completely reached off the board the way like

(01:08:06):
Cleveland did with Anthony Bennett, where it was like dude,
what on earth? Like how did that even happen? Or
you just kind of get unlucky with the injuries, and
it's like the Sixers somehow found a way to get
two of them back to back, where it's like Mark
Kell's had has a decent career now, but like Markell
was never the guy and he made perfect sense Like
that to me, is the brutal one like Markel forgetting

(01:08:26):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:27):
So I felt Tatum made more sense than Markell because
you had Simmons already who was going to be elite guard,
who's gonna have the ball in his hands to and
Mark Kel at Washington that was like give him the ball,
he needs the ball, He'll make everything else around you better.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
I didn't like the the selecting on Marcut, not because
of the player. I loved the player because I felt
like that wasn't the best match for what you already
had on there you get a Tatum, I felt that complimentary.
You know, both em Beat and Simmons way better getting
a scoring wing player rather than another lead guard.

Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
Yeah, but I mean that's what But when you look
at it as a whole, I mean it netted Joel Embiid.
Obviously there's your your MVP, your franchise guy. Say what
you want, like you know, it's been up and down
and there's been injuries, but like Joel is Joel like
when he's healthy, he's one of the best players on
the planet.

Speaker 1 (01:09:22):
It has been a very good team for a long time.
So that that's kind of why I meane it like
wasn't worth it being a good team, consistently good for
many years. Is that worth the process that you had
to go through or would you rather be bottom out
but then spike up?

Speaker 2 (01:09:40):
No, I'd much rather bottom out. That's what's frustrating me
is we never finished it, like, okay, see processed and
finish the job. Like we didn't finish the job. We
decided to bail on it halfway and so you you know,
you had an incomplete body of work. Like That's why
I get frustrated. And what was the whole thing is
because it was like, no, I was fully invested in
those losing years, Like I this is gonna sound utterly

(01:10:01):
like I know, how insane I'm about to sound. The
twenty fourteen six Ers when they won like twenty seven
games or something like that was truly one of the
most enjoyable Sixer seasons I've ever watched because they all
played the rear end off. They had a plan, there
was a ton of hope, and they just kind of
bailed on it early. Like, but I mean the process itself.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Like I'm a Magic fan, I fully understand that, because
to me, as a fan in general, all you can
really ask for your team is play your hearts out,
give me you all. I feel like I'm at least
a little educated enough to understand what a realistic expectation
of the roster that's that's put together right season starts.

(01:10:44):
You kind of already have an idea where you're gonna
finish more or less. Right, But as long as you're
giving me you all, that's all I care about. Right.
I can live, like you said, I can live with
the losses as long as I'm seeing that you're going forward,
you're playing hard, that you're doing when you can't. I
get it. The other team's more talented. We're gonna lose, fine,
but you gave me everything. I can live with.

Speaker 2 (01:11:05):
That.

Speaker 1 (01:11:05):
I can't live with, you know, doing half the work
or taking nights off consistently, or I that that as
a fan. No, that's insulting.

Speaker 2 (01:11:16):
Yeah, And I mean that's where you know, I just
like I said, I I wish we had seen it through.
I mean, there are plenty of guys too who were
here for portions of winning. But then just even like
you know, I look at our guy TJ. TJ McConnell,
but like even beyond him, like the Robert Covington's of
the world, the Dario sarch Is, like these are guys
that made long NBA careers.

Speaker 1 (01:11:35):
Out of that run.

Speaker 2 (01:11:36):
And it's just you know it just like when I
when I look at the report card, it's I mean,
in the grand scheme of things, it's bad. Like when
with how it turned out, it's bad, but I label
the thinking I'd give it an eye for incomplete because
I don't feel like they finished it Like that to
me is what's more unforgivable than anything is it was like, no,
you had a plan, and the Second League got on

(01:11:57):
you about it, even though multiple other teams that done it.
You kind of wilton under pressure, like you you just said,
all right, you know what, Yeah, let's push back in
now let's go back to being mediocre. Like I watched
them be mediocre for most of my teenage years, Like
they were always good, they were never great, though their
highlights were like winning one game against the Big three
heat like there's it's it's not fun to be the

(01:12:20):
seven and eight seed and lose every year. I mean,
that's what That's what a Orlando did essentially in between
the Dwight years and up till now when they've had
more of a coherent game plan these last few years
with Weltman, Like it's just like right, like be be
bad and try to get elite talent or just go
for it. Like I don't think.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
The resent in Orlando was that, you know, they tried
to retool with Lusavich and Evan Fortia went when that
core was there to try to retool, say all right,
let's see what we can come out of it. They
saw very quickly they made the playoffs right two years.
They saw very quickly, this is it. This, this is
our this is our ceiling. Yeah, that's not going to
be good enough. Let's reset and you nail those picks.

(01:13:04):
You got the Bankerto, you got the frond, you got
sugs like, you nail those. And I think they did
a very good job of getting those type of individuals
with that mentality that I'm talking about, Like you just
mentioned people like Roco and things like Orlando's just full
with those guys. That's what makes this rebuild so enjoyable

(01:13:26):
as a fan, and the fact that, yeah, we've made it,
you know, sixth seed and seven ce a seed. But
we're trending in the right direction, right. It's just starting
for us. It wasn't our cap like it was on
the Vusovich and even forty yet it is. No, this
is just the beginning for us. So but it's it's
teams have to have the confidence to know that they

(01:13:48):
can make that. And I feel like maybe some of
these gms in the past haven't had that, Like I
feel with Portland for a long time. You need to
break up this Dame and CJ mcconon tak it's not
going to work right, the same way Wall and Beal
did not work. It's not going to work, But they
wouldn't break it. They kept going and they kept going,
and they kept going too late. Now you're in the

(01:14:11):
position that you're in. I feel very similar about Atlanta.
It's not going to work. It's just not. You got
Johnson in there. Now is the time to get rid
of Tray in my opinion, cash in on that bad boy, yeah,
and load up with your young studs, because I feel
like Atlanta has something in Johnson and some of the
other you know, Dyson, some of the your biggest piece

(01:14:34):
is straight. You're not going to get much better than
when you were last year. Yeah, you may be a
sixth seed. You may be a fifth seed. Is that
good enough? No, then flip them.

Speaker 2 (01:14:46):
It's the middle of that Eastern playing position, like those
are always like, you know, I don't want to pick
on them, but it's like it's Atlanta in Chicago, right,
It's like that's the worst place to be in my eyes,
where it's like you're never you don't stink, so you
don't get But I mean, Atlanta did get that number
one pick last year. That is kind of unfortunate. That
was draft. Yeah, you know, he did a lot better
than I thought he was gonna do so, and honestly,

(01:15:08):
they've drafted well, Like that's kind of Atlanta's found a
few gems here recently. But it's the fact that you're right,
like they're just not they're forty and forty two, like
they've they've stalled out. Chicago again has been doing this
for like a decade running now. Basically it stinks. It's
just not a good place to be, and you're right,
it's it's hard to it's hard to get invested in that.
But nonetheless, thank you everybody for listening to this episode

(01:15:29):
Driving Thish NBA podcast. Appreciate you guys. As always again
an absolutely loaded episode. We appreciate our guy Andy Jordan
coming on helping us out pinch it and again follow
him on Twitter at Andy's Magic Minute. Of course, Justin
will be back next week. Listen to the show wherever
you get your podcast. Watch the show just search Driving
This NBA podcast on YouTube and stay subscribed for all

(01:15:50):
our latest episodes. I think we've done my dancewers today,
so I want to dance Wednesday. See the star side
Okay here, okay, up.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
What you are? I think they could

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