Schedule Release 2025 & One Time for Linsanity

On this episode of The Drive & Dish NBA Podcast, hosted by Kevin Rafuse (@rafusetolose) and Justin Cousart (@JustinContheAir), Kevin is joined by Ryan Mayer (@r_mayer) from The Athletic. The guys start the episode with Jeremy Lin announcing his retirement from basketball. A look back at Linsanity from when Kevin and Ryan lived in New York and why it was more fun than anything else. Next, the NBA has released the full 2025 schedule. A look at some of the highlights including opening night and Christmas Day games. Does anybody have a reason to gripe? We further discuss the early start again to the NBA Cup and why it takes a lot of steam out of it. Along with the schedule, the duo debates the Western Conference and which teams are in the best position headed in 2025. Can anybody in the East keep up? Listen to the show wherever you get your podcasts and watch the show on YouTube.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is the Drive and Dish podcast, The Drive and.

Speaker 2 (00:07):
Welcome to you.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
To start it off, it's.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Just let's go all right, we're back, and you know
it's only fitting and for everybody watching on the video
of course, you know we got a guest this week,
Ryan Mayer is here. I'll do the full intro in
a little bit, but the intro topic is extra fitting
with Jeremy Lynn retiring because Ryan and I were.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
In New York at the time.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
We lived together, like we were in Hofstra at peak
in insanity when he broke out with the Knicks those
initial games, you know, the game against Kobe obviously the
one you think about. I don't know about you, though,
because during all that, obviously when Mellow was injured, like
the Knicks were on the verge of becoming that playoff
team all the time, a pretty consistent figure there. I
wanted to like think it's a flash in the pan

(00:52):
and almost like I feel bad because I like almost
wanted to be a hater about it's so bad. And
then we were watching the game and it was the
game against the Actors where he had the ball last
minute and when he called ISO and waved everybody off,
and I said, hold on, I said, are we really?
Like is are we at this point? And he splashed it.
I said, nos, I'm sold. I was like, I'm in.

(01:12):
I was like, you can't, you can't knock it. I mean,
what a roller coaster that was, Like I can't remember.
And what was most fun about that, right It was
just how organic it was, like everybody lit up. I mean,
what a unique feeling, right yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
And it was one of those feelings too, I think
with Lean in particular right where I don't know how
you felt about it at the time, but when we
were growing up, the Knicks had some really strong teams.
Obviously you ing Allan Houston that that whole run obviously,
but it got to a certain point where I was
just kind of like, yeah, like, okay, they're they're they're

(01:49):
they're around. Like I didn't understand the energy around the
New York Knicks or like how into it the city got,
because you know, we're growing up outside of Philly, in
and out of New York. We weren't there all the time.
During that two week run, I was like, oh, okay,
I get it, I get it, I get where this is.
Like this is the hype level that we've now seen

(02:11):
come back here over the past couple of years when
they've started making making this run again of just the
city's electric. They're going crazy. Everybody calling into talk shows
is talking about the Micks like that. That's the sort
of energy in five that was coming off. And yeah,
it was. It was a lot of fun to It
was a lot of fun to see. I mean, I

(02:31):
remember being an intern at News twelfth Long Island. Shout
out to Kevin Maher in the sports department there, But
like I was there one night cutting the cutting the
clips for the broadcast and it was one of the
insanity games and we were just sitting there in the
hub going nuts every time he hit a shot. It
was absolute insanity every time over the course of that

(02:56):
two week stretch. And then you know, obviously you get
towards the tail end of the fronts into the Miami
Juggernaut of the time and that kind of ended things
real fast. But man, for that, for that stretch, that
was a hell of a run. There was no doubt
about it.

Speaker 2 (03:10):
It's just that all he was the ultimate folk hero
and like everybody leaned into it. You're right, because when
I think when you because the new York.

Speaker 3 (03:17):
Is a city.

Speaker 2 (03:17):
You know, You've got the Yankees obviously, who the most
successful franchise in MLB history. You've got a team like
the Rangers with hockey that's got a lot of standing.
But then football, you've got the Giants, who are super
successful and have been historically. Like you do, you don't
really realize the just grip that the Knicks have on
the city. And because Knicks have, you know, we know
about the championship drought, like we know they've been close

(03:39):
a few years and they just haven't got over the top.
Like you know when I put my fan hat on
as a Sixers fan, like they're supposed to be one
of our rivals, but like I'm not gonna go well,
I mean they are one of our rivals, they're not
supposed to be. But like when if they win a title,
like I kind of want to go up.

Speaker 3 (03:52):
Like the city's gonna be nuts, like.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
And when they you know, when it's such a fan
base that's been starved, like you know, with high with football,
with baseball, with all the other sports we mentioned, like
it's just divided up there, like you have two true
fan bases that you could root for, Like sometimes it's
geographically whatever it may be. But yeah, with the Knicks,
I mean, and look, we know the Nets are there,
but like the Nets are Jerseys team.

Speaker 1 (04:15):
Man.

Speaker 3 (04:15):
Still like even with.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Them being in Brooklyn, Like, if you're gonna have fans,
it's in Jersey, it's not New York.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
Like everybody in New York is a Knicks fan.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
And it was like that was you know, and that
kind of springboard and into the Carmelo Anthony run. And
I mean, look, Jeremy Lynn was only there for thirty
five games, Like the next year he was already like
he was gone. I mean, he ended up building a
career out of this. You know, he hasn't played NBA
ball since twenty nineteen. He actually won the championship with
the Raptors that last year. He played for the Lakers,

(04:43):
the Rockets, the Hornets, the Nets. He's been playing overseas.
I mean, he's been in Taiwan, He's been in China
playing for those teams. He's been with the New Taipei
Kings for the past two years, since twenty twenty three.
But I mean, yeah, like that run, and again credit
to him for building off it, like Jeremy Lynn was
because you know, when you think of those little like

(05:04):
flashes in the pan, Jeremy Lynn was way more than
a mean player, Like.

Speaker 3 (05:07):
The guy was good.

Speaker 2 (05:08):
Like he had a good NBA career. I mean there
was one season that year in Brooklyn. He's averaging almost
twenty five points a game in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen.
Like you know, he got six Man of the Year
votes when he was in Charlotte after he signed that
big contract, Like, you know, good for him for springboarding
that into a long, successful NBA career.

Speaker 3 (05:26):
But I mean, you're right when you just when you think.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
Of like those folk heroes, those flashes in the van,
and of course being in New York helps, being with
all those eyes on you.

Speaker 3 (05:34):
But like you just think of fun like that.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
It's one of those truly that I was glad I
was there for and I was glad I remembered like that.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Was there, aren't you know?

Speaker 2 (05:44):
You see them less and less in the NBA. I
feel like these days like they haven't quite had the
impact the way he did when he was cooking like that.
But yeah, it was you know, hopefully we get another
one of those sooner than later, because that was just
it was a blast.

Speaker 1 (05:58):
Yeah, no, And I think your point two on him
using that as a springboard to then build out a
successful career and then not only just in the NBA
but overseas as well is a great one, because you know,
we do sometimes see those flashing the pan guys ten
day contract, have a couple of good performances, maybe they

(06:19):
sign on with the team for the rest of the year,
but then they're they're gone from the NBA, or they
get the training camp they invite, but they're now playing
overseas in Europe or China or wherever the case may be.
And he held on and not only held on, but
held his own in spots across the league, took on
a couple of injuries, which obviously you know, hurt his

(06:39):
career over over the course of time, but still got
that championship out of it with the Raptors. So at
the end of the day, like huge, huge props to him,
huge successful career after that, just incredible run to start
it all off with New York.

Speaker 2 (06:55):
Well, and too when you talk about the impact as well,
like when you talk about you know, the game being
global and with the NBA schedule release, we're going to
talk about some of the Global Games later on in
this episode.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
But you know, when you.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Talk about the popularity of basketball in Asia, like Jeremy
Lynn is one of the more successful Asian NBA players
that we've ever seen.

Speaker 3 (07:11):
Like, you know, you think of him, you think of
Yao Ming.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
Like these are the guys that you know, really continue
to grow the game to the point where it's huge
in China and you've got all the stars doing overseas there,
you know, to the point where Taiwan's getting ex players
and things like that. Like you know, he really, I
think has been influential beyond that. And of course you
know him playing in Harvard is just electric as well,
like come on, Tom and straight out of is coming

(07:35):
straight out of the IVY League. A few fun facts
here just Jeremy Lynn about his overseas while he's been here.
He was the champion with the Taipei Kings in twenty
twenty five. He's a CBA All Star in China in
twenty twenty, most Valuable player in Taiwan in twenty twenty five.
So like, look, my man has had you know, that's
that's kind of the dream, right, you know, you go

(07:56):
the soccer guys do it when they go from Europe
to come over here, Like you milk a few more
years in the MLS, so I guess in Saudi now
a little bit too, uh pick it a little more
than milking, i'd say, but yeah, I mean, yeah, good,
good for Jeremy Lynn, you know obviously going home there
to Taiwan a little bit as well. And yeah, like
we said that, the impact is huge, there's no doubt

(08:17):
about that. And you know, we'll see if he pops
back up, who knows, We'll see if he ends up
coaching somewhere, you know whatever. But either way, with the
formal retirement and then John Wall back to back man, like,
it's starting to it's hit me a little bit.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, we're getting old, man, We're getting old.
That's that's what it's telling me is and we're starting
to see a lot of those guys from from when
we were in that college age range.

Speaker 3 (08:38):
More with John Wall. Dude too.

Speaker 2 (08:39):
That one got to me and like, and shout out
to our guy Carlton k B who was on last
episode we were talking about John Wall retiring, like and
I don't always mean to make it like Lebron propaganda necessarily,
but you think about it, like the first overall pick
in the and and the twenty ten draft is retiring,
and here's Lebron getting ready. We're opening there, kicking off again. We're,

(09:00):
like I said, we're gonna get into the full schedule
release here at a sec. Welcome everybody, The Driving Is
NBA Podcast.

Speaker 3 (09:05):
My name is Kevin Ray views.

Speaker 2 (09:06):
Justin Kuzart is off. I swear he's at nor I
should have made up where he's at it some point,
like Justin's been It's been like a month since Justin's
been on the podcast, and like I swear like I
still talk to him all the time, like a lot
of vacation. We used to make it up back in
the day. It's like, you know, he's he's like making
cheese in Switzerland or something like that, Like he was
really trying to get that that perfect hole in his

(09:28):
slice of cheese as he works on his sandwich.

Speaker 3 (09:30):
Well, we'll see.

Speaker 2 (09:31):
He should be back for a next episode. But either way,
Ryan Mayer is here with me this week at our
underscore mayor m A.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
Y E.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
R On Twitter, SEO at the Athletic.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
You know, like I said, Ryan and I go way
back from Hofstra.

Speaker 2 (09:46):
All the way to now we're talking hoops. We got
a lot of schedule release stuff to talk about. Some
opening night of course, he got to break down the
Christmas slate for everybody. Any other highlights, some of the
global games. We're gonna talk Western Conference as well. We're
closer and closer.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
We're getting there to tip off. Are we going to
talk about the Eagles at some point?

Speaker 2 (10:02):
Probably? Carlton and I Carlton book and he calls us
from Miami, so he can't even blame me. Last go
around he started asking me about the Eagles at the
beginning of the podcast. I'm gonna push it to the
end of the podcast. But if you want some sneaky
NFL talk later at the end of the podcast, you
can stay tuned for that.

Speaker 3 (10:17):
Leave us.

Speaker 2 (10:17):
Are you on the iTunes good or bad? Or read
them on the podcast. If you're not an Apple user
who could play story Speaker, Spotify, tune in Amazon Music player, FM,
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Speaker 3 (10:32):
Works more sponsors. All right, so here we go.

Speaker 2 (10:35):
Schedule release officially is out. All the games we're obviously
not going to break down all the games.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
That would be a little ridiculous unless we want to.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
Do a lot of twenty four yeah, casual like twenty
four hour live stream, Like maybe maybe Justin and I
think about that. That would certainly be a way to
get the podcast publicity out there. But no, a few
bigger ones that we want to talk about here a
little bit. We're obviously going to start with the opening night,
no supprise, Oklahoma City kicking it off. They'll be raising
the banner. They're up against Houston, a matchup that Justin

(11:05):
and I have been rooting for, a matchup that I
think everybody should be excited about.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
Kevin Durant, the huge move in Houston this summer.

Speaker 2 (11:13):
I think we're already, like you know, listen, I know,
bol take the defending champion and the guys who just
got Kevin Durant. But like this is probably the Western
Conference final, Like there's certainly, in my opinion, it's two
of the best three teams coming back after it. So yeah,
I mean, I think the NBA nailed it with this one.

Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, I mean, you have to first off, you have
to lead off with the champ and when you have
the opportunity to have the champ facing off against the
team that just acquired one of the top ten still
top five players in the league. And Kevin Durant, Yeah,
you got to do That's that's the right thing to do.
Lead got it right, And yeah, Ill, we'll talk a

(11:52):
little bit more about the Western Conference later on. I'm sure,
but I would tend to agree with you. It's it's
two of the top teams in the way. It's a
possible Western Conference finals preview, and man, I'm just excited
to watch that one play out, honestly, Like you have
a Thunder team that now going into the playoffs last year,
the question was are they still too young? Have they

(12:15):
gone through enough of that kind of playoff adversity that
you typically see before a team wins the finals and
they come out on top, they win the finals. Now
they know they can do it. Now, what's it look
like now that you know you can climb that mountain
top and get that win. So yeah, I'm super excited
to see this one to kick off the slate and

(12:36):
you know, kick off a new NBA TV contract as
well across multiple different partners. So this should be a
fun one for sure.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
Yeah, I mean, and when you talk about okay, see,
you're right, all the question has been answered with the
championship there. Now the seasoning is definitely there. There's none
of that we need to worry about. But it's more
of like their big issues are almost internal at this point, right,
and then's up against the cap, like the second APIs.
Now we're already talking about moves. I mean, you know,
staples of this roster in lou dort to the longest

(13:05):
tenured Thunder player, I think there's a chance he goes.
Obviously has played a crucial role for them these past
few years. You look at a guy like Isaiah Hartenstein
who they brought in last year signed to a big contract,
played a great shot or did a great job.

Speaker 3 (13:16):
For them across the course of the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
But yeah, I mean with the big contracts, because I
mean they got everybody locked up. Now, you got Chet
locked up, you got Sga locked up, you got Jalen
Williams locked up, which like good reward the guys you got.

Speaker 3 (13:28):
We know they have just a.

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Seemingly infinite amount of draft picks coming. So that's that's
the beauty of it too, is like you really can
you know if you hit on these picks, that's why
everybody's so high on the dynasty. But like, yeah, because
I mean even with even with the guy like Cason Wallace,
like he played quality minutes for them, You're gonna have
to pay him at some point. Like that's the challenge
now in the NBA, Like we are fully in the

(13:50):
league of parody.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
Yeah, And I mean kudos to the league in that sense.
They stated that they wanted parody. That's certain what they've
built this out for and built this out to do.
As you mentioned, once you start paying those guys, the
cash flow becomes tighter and tighter, especially when you have
those top three of the previous era when we were

(14:13):
looking at join forces with multiple superstars on the same team.
Now you really have to focus on how you build
around them. Now. The thing that you point out that
I think is still really crucial with this Thunder team
is they have draft picks out the lazoo for the
next foreseeable future. And Sam Presty has seemingly had a
crystal ball for a little while now thinking about this

(14:34):
era because the number of first round picks that he has,
those become now more and more valuable each successive year, right,
because those are the types of guys, even if they're
just outside the lottery, in and around the lottery, that
can be those contributing types of players for you to
come in and replace guys like a door, like a
case on Wallace, that's where you find those guys. Now,

(14:56):
it's harder to do because you have to consistently draft well,
which any sport across the board is really difficult. But
they're set up extremely well here for now and going
forward with the future.

Speaker 2 (15:08):
Yeah, I mean, they're gonna be the ultimate test of
whether you know of what dynasty building potentially looks like
because they're just they are They're the group that it
looks like they have the best chance of doing it.
A lot of these other teams have been, you know,
going for it in the way the sense the NFL
has turned into a little bit where it's like, no,
if you got it, go all in.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
You know, you've seen what can happen.

Speaker 2 (15:26):
You could be Indian, you could be in the finals
next year like you could be you know, that's why
I applaud you know, teams like the Rockets going for Denver,
retooling and all that. It's just crazy to think about
and and again we're we're gonna get down the x's
and o's. But like if Ookse was in the East,
god weeding penciling them in for the finals right now,
And it's the same with like four teams in the
West right now. And I still think, like the Knicks

(15:49):
are legit. I don't want to take away from the Knicks.

Speaker 3 (15:51):
There's a reason I think they're the favorite, but like,
the Knicks are so far from that like bullet proof
favorite that we've seen in some of these conferences over
the years, where it's like Knicks would.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
Be four or five in the West, maybe, I think,
and that's not even a knock against them, that's more
of how good the West is. But it's like I
truly do like if I'm looking at my you know,
early preseason power rankings, I probably got three or four
teams ahead of the Knicks in the West, and that's
just again the quality of how good the West is.
Two of them were playing in this game right now.

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah, it's it's wild too, because it felt it felt
like for a little bit at these things were starting
to even out a little bit more between between the
two conferences, and then yeah, here over the last I
don't know, four or five Isshu years that maybe going
back a little bit further, you've really started to see
that strength come out in the West. And you know,

(16:44):
we're talking about the top half of teams. There's still
teams out there with really good players, really good crossers
that we just have questions about because they're in the West.
I mean, you know, we two three years ago, we
were all talking about John Morant and what he can do.
Obviously he's had plenty of off court shoes along the
way and injuries in there, but that's still a super

(17:04):
talented dude that They've made some moves around the edges
this year. What did they look like? Are they top
team in the West? Though? No, No, they're not. And
that's that's the wild part about it, just the depth
of that conference overall.

Speaker 2 (17:17):
And on the flip side, Orlando gets des been made
for Memphae and I'm like, hey, you know what, now,
maybe they.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
Are on something.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
I hear justin Groening all the way from Switzerland or
wherever he is right now, all right, but I mean yeah,
the other NBA Opening Night matchup, of course, is the
Lakers in Golden State, which everyone I know is going
to roll their eyes at like, Wow, the Lakers and
Warriors are on national television again. But I'm here to
say the opposite, because like, look, Lebron and Stepp are
still doing this, man, and at some point there they're

(17:47):
both at the age now where you have to say, hey,
this is gonna go away sooner than later, or well,
you know, maybe, I guess, I guess We've have been
saying that potentially for a while, but like, I'm trying
to enjoy it now. And there is a little more
intrigued obviously with the Lakers a pretty new roster, all
the additions they made around Luka Doncic this offseason, getting
him locked into that first full off season with him

(18:09):
on board, still a wild sentence to say. But even
with the Warriors as well, well, Jimmy Butler coming back
like we saw him and Steph you know, injuries ruined that.
Like it felt like the Warriors were getting it together
at the right time. They're of course going to be
intriguing as well a bit because they're gonna put you know,
they're gonna put the young man's game to a test here.
They've got one of the older rosters in the league,
right now.

Speaker 3 (18:29):
But yeah, you just have to. You know, I'm not
gonna be you know.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Because they played for the Lakers and the Warriors. I
think there's gonna be some extra grown because of the history.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
But like I'm putting.

Speaker 2 (18:38):
Lebron and Steph on television for Opening Night every single
year until both of them retire at this point, like you.

Speaker 1 (18:44):
Just have to from a pure business standpoint, like there's
zero reason for the league to not do this and
not open this late with two of the biggest stars
of the last coming up on twenty years now or
a little over twenty years now for the insane and
Steph that on on the other side as well with

(19:04):
his run. So from that standpoint, it makes complete sense.
The one thing I will say that that struck me
when they released the schedule is it did somewhat feel
like a little bit of a missed opportunity to not
have it be Lakers Dallas Cooper flag that whole back
and forth the Dallas still everybody in Dallas still pissed

(19:25):
off that Luca is gone, regardless of whether of what
you thought of the trade, what you thought of the return,
especially now that they have a flag like that seemed
like an opportunity opening night to have that matchup that
charged atmosphere. But again, you can't go wrong when you
when you do have these two franchises going up against
each other and the star power that it entails. So

(19:46):
I totally get it from from that standpoint too.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah, I mean, Cooper Flag does seem because you know,
when you talk about Lebron and Steph, I think the
one thing too we've wondered is you know who's going
to be when they leave and when Kevin Durant to
that extent as well leaves. You know who's gonna be
that next generation of star. You know, we we with
John You mentioned the hiccups a little bit earlier. We've
seen it with Aunt Edwards a little bit where there's
been this flashes. Is a Jason Tatum. I mean, Jokic

(20:12):
is a little older now he's into his thirties, but like,
is a Jokic still. You know, Giannis has been a
pretty big international face, but like, I don't he never
really took the torch from Lebron and Steph the way
you kind of thought he might have by now where
he's still very much in his prime and very much
dominating the game.

Speaker 3 (20:29):
But I don't know if he's quite that household name.

Speaker 2 (20:31):
Like, You're right, you would think maybe from the league
a little bit, with Cooper Flag already having a pretty
big profile, going to Duke being one of the more
heralded number one picks here in a little bit, you
would you would think they would try to get that
on on TV. But like you know, at the end
of the day, that matchup is still going to be
you know, prime to every time exactly.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
We're nitpicking at that point, right, Like you have that
this night versus one of your prime time slots another
night down the road. That's not really a bad thing
or a bad choice of options for the NBA overall.
Like I said, I was just a little bit surprised
that they didn't take that opportune timing, but also kind

(21:14):
of kind of you know, makes sense in some respects
to Dallas still getting a little bit healthy in terms
of Kyrie and everything. We don't know what he's going
to look like. So yeah, that's that all completely tracks
with Hey, let's put Warriors Lakers on Opening Night. I
will say, overall, though you're talking a little bit about
the face of the league, I do have to throw

(21:34):
the young man down at San Antonio in there. I know,
we don't know what he's going to look like off
a blood clot, but Buddy, prior to that last year,
there was some some things cooking down there in San Antonio.

Speaker 2 (21:48):
Well, that's what have been one of our big off
season topics. Honestly, and since I've asked every other guest
we've had about it, it feels kind of fitting like
Wenby clearly is this. You know, he's been this generational prospect.
He's already arguably the best defense the player in the league.
It still feels like the sky is the limit. Even
with the setback a little bit, we should be having
him on Opening Night, which were obviously all excited about.
You know they before Wendy went down, they traded for

(22:11):
Deer and Fox. They now pay dearon Fox. Now you
get the number one two pick or number two pick.
I should say Dylan Harper in there as well. Like
San Antonio's gonna win something this year, right, Like I
need to see them, even with the Wesbian I feel
like I need to see them in the play in.

Speaker 1 (22:25):
Right, you need to at least see them in the
play in. I mean, I I'd be of the opinion
that if they're not not in the play and that's
a complete failure. I'd be of the opinion I think too,
that if they're not one of the top seeds in
the play in I'd probably consider it a failure just
in terms of getting one of those seven or eight
slots and what had traditionally been a playoff spot and

(22:49):
getting that kind of home court advantage in those in
that play in round, because you're to your to your point,
they've surrounded him with plenty of talent brought in dearon
Fox and the trade have the number two overall pick,
they still had plenty of guys on that roster. Castle
who last year. No what going into last season, no

(23:10):
one would have said, hey, you know what's the Poncastle
going to be one of the top rookies in the league.
But really, well, we probably learned more about him than
we would have expected because of the fact that Wenby
was injured and he had to take on more of
the load. But he clearly stepped up and proved that
he's capable of providing a bigger role for that team.
So yeah, I would absolutely say they need to be

(23:30):
in probably that top seven eight teams in the West. Now,
the West is stacked, as we've been saying, so if
they fall a little bit below that not overly surprising,
but they should be in contention for that.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
Well, it always just becomes who is the team that
drops right right, And the logical contention for me right
now is Sacramento. Sacramento would be the team that I
think takes a step back, and then you jump into
the mix Phoenix is I mean they may last year,
but like Phoenix should be worse than they will. Or
Portland a little trek, a little tricky at the end

(24:03):
of last year. You see them hanging around, but like
that to me would be the logical replacement there. You know,
maybe Memphis takes a step back post Esmond Baine Dallas,
like you said, uncertainty with Kyrie, but when you get
Cooper flag and if Anthony Davis as healthy, like you
feel good about that roster. The other reality too, is
like you get the Pelicans, don't get hugest assumption there
with health as always, but like you know, you never

(24:25):
know is the point. But either way, like it's loaded,
it's tough, but you're right, I want to see them
start to put it together.

Speaker 3 (24:30):
Like they need to get you.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
Know, if Wenby is gonna be this dominant generational force,
you got to get into the planet somehow.

Speaker 3 (24:38):
At some point, I think we're here.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
The training wheels are off a little bit, and I
think with but at the same time, like I do,
it's the supporting cast, like I want to give. You
have to give some of those younger guys, right because
even like you mentioned Castle, Castle is still a second
year guy in the grand scheme of things, like it
is gonna be Harper's rookie year, and so yeah, maybe
it is a little unfair to be like, hey, come
play high leverage minutes right away, but you know, kind

(25:00):
of you just kind of pushed in a little bit
when you trade for Daron Fox. So it is like
kind of like, hey, these two enough should hopefully be
able to go win something, plus some of their depth
guys we like like the Cell and Keldon Johnson, and
I don't know, it just yeah, I'm glad. Generally the
temp has been the same thing across the board from
guest wise, no matter who we've had, is it's like, hey,
it's it's time. But I almost feel like they've like

(25:24):
granted Wemby getting hurt takes a lot of steam out
of it.

Speaker 3 (25:26):
But like it feels like they haven't like this will
be the year.

Speaker 2 (25:29):
Maybe they start to get a little heat for it,
Like they've largely been under the radar so far because
Wemby's still so young.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
Yeah, but I think they accelerated the timeline really last
year with the Fox trade, right, like, go even you
know Wenby year one, obviously, Hey, let's let's see what
we've got with this guy going in, going into your
two little bit more expectations, but even still to your point,
kind of building the roster around him. They have brought
in Chris Paul to be kind of that veteran guy

(25:54):
to help pair with him, show him the ropes through it.
Through the league. You have the whole situation with Popovich
not being able to really coach at all through throughout
the course of the season, and there weren't as many expectations.
It was very easy to understand like, hey, okay, they're
out of the playoffs. Wemby's hurt, got it totally understood.

(26:15):
But now if he's assuming health for him, assuming health
for that roster overall, you have to be of the
opinion that, yeah, show me something at this point in time,
because they've clearly built this to the point where, yeah,
this is the timeline where you start to make that
playoff push and start to make a little bit of

(26:35):
noise in the postseasons. Maybe not win a series, but
at the very least you're pushing somebody and you're making
them a little bit scared.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
Yeah, you got to get in. If you get in,
that's fine.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
I don't I'm okay with them losing their first playoff
series as long as right, as long as they don't
get embarrassed, Like if they completely run out of the gym,
it's a different story. But like, yeah, I just need
to see them get in. I don't need to see
them making a deep run just yet. I don't think
they have. And again, the episode the West is super loaded, Like,
I don't think you're gonna be there right the.

Speaker 3 (27:03):
Second switching gears a little before we get into Christmas.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
I do have to say, I want to get your
temple on this because like I want the NBA Cup
to succeed so bad, Like I really think, you know, again,
going overseas to soccer again, you see the FA Cup
in the Premier League, you see the Caramel Cup, Like
things like this work. Like obviously the Champions League is
way different than anything the NBA could do, but like
that works, So like I want the NBA Cup to

(27:26):
work in that regard. I think it's a lot of fun,
But like, can we stop starting it so early in
the season, Like, can we at least get to November?
Like the first games for this around October thirty first?
Like opening night is October twenty first, I believe, Yeah,
October twenty first season. Yet, like I don't know, I
feel like the NBA is just continually shooting themselves in
the foot with this. It's like, not only do guys

(27:48):
not know the format, which they're starting to get a
little better on, but it's like, you know, you want
guys to play because group play is super.

Speaker 3 (27:54):
Meaningful in the NBA Group Cup.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
So yeah, if you lose that first game because you're
sleepwalking through your fourth game of the season, I don't know.
It just feels like like we want, if we want
this to be taken seriously, I don't know, can we
move it to like maybe more Thanksgiving? Like can we
get it a little later in the year.

Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yeah, I agree with you on that. It also feels
too like to some extent, you're burying this new thing
that you want to get a ton of attention for
in really the prime part of the NFL season, Like
this is right in and around that range where if
you're a fan of both of these leagues, which a

(28:33):
lot of people are, the NFL teams are starting to
make moves. The trade deadline, I think is a week
after the start of the NBA Cup this year, so
there's gonna be a lot of conversation around who's on
the move around the league, that sort of thing. You're
trying to get shine for this, as you mentioned, your
four games, and you have all these these other competing interests.

(28:54):
Why not start it a little bit later in the schedule,
later in November, maybe after Thanksgiving, run it into into January.
You have the opportunities here to move this around the
schedule a little bit, keep it interesting, and I just
haven't done that so far. I'm with you. I want
it to be a thing, like I want this to

(29:15):
work here because I think there are a lot of things,
as you mentioned, in the European soccer space that could
translate well if done well. It's for an American audience,
but it has to be done well. And that's the
thing that I haven't quite seen yet from this tournament.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
No, it has the ingredients, Like that's the thing. They
have all the right pieces in place. They just need
to make some minor tweaks. And that's what I'm hoping happens,
because I mean right now, like the in season tournament
final has been entertaining. But you know, we talk about
okay see winning the title. No one mentioned that they
won the in season tournament to that here, like then'll,

(29:54):
by the way, if this is a thing like you
got you got the double? Cool, like I did it.

Speaker 1 (29:58):
Right and out of that was part of the coverage
either to your point of the championship run. It's not
like we were talking about it in the lead up,
like oh, Oklahoma City could win the dumb That's something
that you see in European soccer for the last like
month and a half of the season. If there's a
team that's still pushing for the Champions League final, the
f A Cup and the and the Premier League or

(30:19):
whatever lead they're in, they're talking about the double or
the trouble. That was none of the coverage in that
lead up to that space. Because we all kind of
forgot about it just because of where it falls in
the count.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
That's odd too, because like for other teams, and I
mean it's less with okcvs. Okay see obviously won the
championship last year, like the first year with the Lakers
with Lebron and ad getting that one last thing before
they get out of there. And for teams that just
don't traditionally like maybe not won't win the finals, but
maybe could mess around and win this, like I don't know,
have fun with it, like the way that Crystal Palace
did when they won that a Cup last season. For

(30:52):
the Palace never won anything, they won that Bay Cup
and they celebrated like it was the super Bowl. I
love it, Like that's what these things are designed for.
And I'm just know you're right for the league, like
and Adam Silver, who specifically has spent like a lot
of capital, like really like you know, pushing this and
trying to make this a thing, like you're right, Like
do you want to show off your shiny new toy
a little bit like don't put don't buy the Ferrari

(31:14):
and just keep it in the garage all the time,
like you put it out on the road here a bit, like, yeah,
just just push it back, like that's the biggest The
guy's figuring out the group play stuff.

Speaker 3 (31:23):
I'm not worried about. But that's kind of the point though, is.

Speaker 2 (31:25):
Where I'm like, you can't expect them to figure it
out when the season just started, like we an't.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
And I get I get the logic. I guess to
some extent of like, Okay, you know, we'll put it
early in the season so that there's reasons for those
games to matter a little bit more, for people to
tune in a little bit more. And it's a good,
good theory, right, like, Okay, this is getting everybody back
into the swing of the season, but in practice it

(31:50):
ends up getting lost as opposed to really being that
shining thing like oh you know what, hey, NBA Cup
starts this week. It's actually more of one of those
things where you and I will be talking about something
and we're just like, oh, yeah, by the way, did
you see like NBA Cup to just started this week,
and we completely kind of lose track of it in
the space of where it is in the sports calendar.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, yeah, you're right, And I mean look again, obviously
with NFL you're in it specifically in America.

Speaker 3 (32:17):
That rules all. But yeah, I just anyway, I hope
this thing can grow.

Speaker 2 (32:21):
I just hope one day they push it back and
they see the writing all because I would hate see
it fold. I would hate to see this be a
three year thing and nobody ever tried this again. Like
I almost want the NBA to like go the opposite,
and I want them to like lean into it so hard,
like make us all like like flood the airwaves with
NBA Cup companies like make us all group play experts

(32:42):
and scoring differential guys like like flood the block with it. Please,
like give us that content. I'd rather have it that
way than go the other way. But all right, let's
dive into Christmas Day games here a little bit. Obviously,
five games on the slate. We're gonna start early with
the Calves.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
And the Knicks.

Speaker 2 (33:00):
I don't really think there's any like. This was a
no brainer to me. I've been beating up on the
Cavs all summer long. I'm not going to do it
again on this episode because I feel like Cleveland's going
to start to take it personally at some point. But
I mean these are probably at least on paper the
two best teams, and there should be in the regular season.
It should have been it's probably at some point a
playoff matchup last year, but you know, we never quite

(33:22):
got that far with Cleveland. But yeah, I mean they
deserve to be. It just stinks like this would have
been the logical Pacer slot, but it just goes back
to the Halleye injury, like the Pacers would have been here.
But yeah, it does take a lot of this steam
out of it, like we don't get that awesome conference
finals like rematch that we would have loved to see,
that that you know, rivalry that has continued to carry
over through decades.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
Yeah, the devastating injuries from from the playoffs really kind
of I think it put it damper on what the
league was really able to do here with the Eastern Conference.
And you could tell that from the fact that there's
five games, four of them or Western.

Speaker 2 (33:58):
I mean, it's never split that bad.

Speaker 1 (34:00):
It's never exactly it's always a noon Eastern game, maybe
the two o'clock clock is a Western game. Then you
get to the kind of midday, prime primetime Eastern Conference game,
and then you go into the night games. Right, But Yeah,
this is literally completely tilted west western side because to
your point of the devastating injuries that we saw.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
What eas what Eastern Conference team should have the most
beef here? Because it's like the Celtics are the typical
Christmas starlings. But you're right, without Tatum, Pacers don't have Halle.
Celtics are pretty decent rest of the roster. So I
know some good changes, like should the Sixers have fake
beef because they could argue like, well, if everybody's healthy,
we'll finally put it together this year. Like is Detroit

(34:42):
somewhere fuming like they're probably? Honestly, if we're talking competitiveness, yeah,
probably the team that would have the most beef.

Speaker 1 (34:49):
Yeah. I mean you and I are both Sixers fans.
Putting the fan hat on for a second. No, I
don't want to see them on Christmas Day and I
don't need to see them.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
On Weirdly, it was great last year, was I pointed,
But they killed the Celtics on Christmas. You fought up
maybe for a brief second there was a glimmer of hope,
and man they closed that so fast.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Yeah, it's just one of those things where I give
me my Christmas Day back without having to worry about
my particular rooting interests in that respect. So no, I
don't think the Sixers have beef the Pistons. Yeah, I
can see where you're coming from on that. I think
you know. At the same time, though, when we're when
we're talking about who gets that, it gets that slot

(35:32):
on Christmas Day. The team that overall was the top
seed in the East last year, yes, had a disappointing
playoff run, and the team that's expected by a lot
of people to be the top seed in the East
this year, and the Knicks, like that makes the most
sense of the world, especially tipping that off at that
time on Christmas Day.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
So God, I would could you imagine? I would love
for them to.

Speaker 2 (35:53):
Be psychos and tip a West Coast gave it like nine.
I mean, I guess you could do some of the
central teams at that point, but like, could you match
like give me Akers and Warriors at nine pm or
nine am? I should say, But yeah, the Western matchups,
like you said, four of them.

Speaker 3 (36:08):
You've got San Antonio and.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
Okay, see, you've got Dallas and Golden State, You've got
Houston and the Lakers, and you've got Minnesota and Denver.
So before we get into those, I guess let's reverse
my question and say which of my Western Conference team
should have beef here? Like who's who is the most
angry they're not on Christmas Day right now from the West.

Speaker 1 (36:30):
Yeah, that's a good that's a good question.

Speaker 2 (36:32):
Like you got okay, see you got the defending champs.
I think it's the Clippers too, Like I'm looking at you.

Speaker 1 (36:39):
I mean, yeah, you're you're putting You're putting in a
Dallas team that, yes, has the as we talked about before,
has the TV doll of the number one overall picking
Cooper flag and the hype there. But yeah, tenth C
last year going into the playoffs, like the Clippers. You know,
for for as much as we may discounted a little bit,

(37:02):
they were five overall seed in the playoffs last year.
That mates and moves during the course of this all season,
bringing in Beal, bringing in Chris Paul, Like, yeah, that
would be my team just off the rip that has
the biggest beef with the Christmas Day matchups, because I mean,
outside of that, who are you going to slot in there?

Speaker 2 (37:23):
No, it's no, I think it's a Clippers and it's
not even close. I think I just want to get
the lips love more than anything, because you're right, I
don't think with them if it was six, like the NBA,
going four West games here really did make it easier
on their schedule makers for anybody to not have beef,
like when you've got eight teams in there, Like you're right,
San Antonio makes sense because the Wemby effect. Dallas makes
sense because of Cooper Flag and with Anthony Davis, and

(37:45):
just like there is their star power there, like the
other two teams that were in the top ten last
year in Memphis who we mentioned downgrade a little bit.
That's just unfortunately the reality their situation. They haven't been
as competitive these last few years. Sacramento, I mean again,
Sat sort of deal, like I don't think they have
the star power that these other teams have. Phoenix blew
it up with getting rid to Durant. The Pelicans have Zion,

(38:08):
but like again is.

Speaker 3 (38:09):
Playing are you really banking on that? Like right, so
that yeah, they really did make it easy on them.

Speaker 2 (38:16):
And I mean I like.

Speaker 3 (38:16):
These matchups for the first part, Like there are some
I guess if.

Speaker 2 (38:19):
You wanted it to mean a little more that would
have made sense. But I mean, I don't know. I like,
I like the little like regional battles you kind of
got going here with San Antonio and Oklahoma City, like
there's been, you know, some rivalry there in the past.
I guess in the twenty tens, I like the Klay
Thompson Bowl in Dallas, Like, hell yeah, I get Clay
back in the Bay on Christmas, Like why not. A

(38:41):
lot of star power there, you know, the new look Warriors,
the Mavericks trying to put all this together, you know,
Lakers and Rockets we've already talked about a little bit.
And then with Minnesota and Denver, like you talk about
one of the best playoff series two years ago, like
the matchup that they had. Minnesota has been in the
Conference finals now back to back years. Like I know,
I know, for me personally, I'm not quite as high

(39:02):
on Minnesota as I've been in past years. That's more
about just some of the subtractions they've been forced to make.
Like you know, I think losing a guy like Nikhil
Alexander Walker for example, is a big loss for them.
But you know they're still like you've got You've got
Anthony Edwards, like that's one of the young faces of
the league, and so I you know, there's there's not
much to complain about with these matchups. I guess overall

(39:24):
is the greater point. I'm bullish on Denver again, man,
I really like the Denver moves from.

Speaker 3 (39:30):
This offseason and went on from DJ.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
Yeah, the roster just makes a lot of sense, and like,
I feel like you have to be encouraged with what
you saw at a Jawal Murray in the playoffs last year,
like he was pretty great, Aaron Gordon was great, Like
I don't know, with Jokich being as good as he
is and with him being the best player in the
league right now, like I I to me, they're the
team that's right there with Oklahoma City, who they pushed
anyway last year even with the me a worst roster,

(39:54):
and then you've got with Houston right there, like that's
kind of my one two three in the West. Like
and Jokic obviously will hel a lot like he will
you know, he elevated that scene probably higher.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
Than they would have been last year.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
But yeah, they I thought they really did a good job.
When you know, it's kind of felt like since the
title that the window has been going very much in
the wrong direction, and it's like, actually, not so fast.
Let's open that back up a little bit, like we
we got something here.

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Yeah, and I mean not to plug the company that
I worked for, but the writers that the Athletic would
agree with you. They gave Timber the only A plus
grade of the off season, said they won the off
season overall just because of the moves that they made,
And yeah, I mean it very much seems like the
mission in Denver this offseason was, hey, how do we

(40:38):
extend this title window for Yokic given that he's still
playing at the level that he's playing at. And yeah,
we're I think that's a really great matchup to watch. Obviously,
anytime we can get and in prime time against a
big opponent like that, it's going to be fireworks. It's

(40:59):
going to be a lot of fun. So yeah, it's
I'm really looking forward to to that matchup overall. The
interesting thing though, to me, Kevin, and this is just
a weird quirk that I like to do sometimes when
I'm looking at the schedule page on ESPN dot com.
If you go and look at the schedule, there's always
the tickets as low as number that they give you,

(41:20):
and tickets for that game as low as fifty five dollars,
none of the other Christmas games lower than like two
hundred bucks or one hundred bucks for San Antonio Oklahoma City.
Like if you're in Denver or excuse me, yeah, if
you're if you're in Denver, might want.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
To you got the lad Like you don't even have
to sacrifice that much of Christmas. You get all your like,
do all your celebraty in the morning, open up gifts,
have breakfast, like do whatever, and just roll right into it,
right like Captain night off with.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
A little bit of Wolves and Denver you know.

Speaker 2 (41:55):
I look not a bad way to go. Yeah, get happy,
like spice it up a little bit. Here's the other
thing I just like about Denver two. And the reality
is it's like and it flew on for the radar,
I think, and that's kind of the advantage. Like this
is where you have the advantage of being a great
team but not being necessarily like the Mark he franchised
of the NBA. I think Michael Porter Junior kind of

(42:16):
stinks and he was on a horrible contract. I mean,
like they maxed him they maxed him to be the
guy and Denver got off it, Like that's such a bit,
Like they have so much more flexibility now, and then
you bring in a guy like Cam Johnson, who's a
good quality player right now, like I think Porter the
concept I still get, like I get, and it's weird

(42:39):
because like you can't really call his Denver ten you're
a failure because they won the title, like he was
a big part of.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Them win the title. But like I just felt like
there was so much.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Meat left on the bone with Michael Porter Junior. And
it hasn't even really been the injuries, which are the
thing you kind of worried about. It's more of just
like I mean, he was a non factor in the
playoffs last year, Like I've seen unfortunately too many times
of guys getting paid a lot of money and then
go up to put five points up in the playoffs,
which is what Michael Porter Junior was doing at some point,
Like I do, I think they dodged a huge bullet

(43:09):
there and it may get noticed a little more now
that he's gone. I mean granted, like he's in Brooklyn.
You can go be an empty stats king there right now,
Like they're Obviously they're playing for the future.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
They're not playing for right this second, but.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Like, yeah, they were Like that was not really talked
about in terms of like the NBA debrief from last year,
where like I watched those Michael Porter junior games with
Denver and I'm like, i have fire alarms going off
all around the building. I'm going, wait a minute, this
is all this guy and their cruising pasted. Okay, see,

(43:43):
and he just could give them that Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah, And I think that's really the other underrated part
of getting off of that contract. You mentioned the injuries.
They haven't really been the limiting factor for him thus far,
but he's continue to age. And when you've had the
injuries that he's had and you're starting to get into
those those age periods where your game starts to pull

(44:09):
back a little bit more, there's a little bit less
athleticism that's in that tank. That's when those things can
really snowball and go downhill. And Yeah, I think over
the course of time, that's probably gonna we're probably gonna
look back at that and say they got off that
contract at the right time.

Speaker 2 (44:25):
Well, it just allows them to build the depth back too.
Like if if Porter is going to be a true
third guy. Then you can get away with it being Hey,
Jokich is such a super freak that you know we
can with him and Jamal Murray if we have a
true third you know, we know Aaron Gordon can play
that four role. Like maybe our depth won't matter as much.
If Michael Porter stinks, then that depth matters a ton.

(44:46):
And that's what I think we saw last year is
just like, you know, they have some good player, like
Christian Brown's a good rotation player, but like a lot
of their guys just like weren't ready, like they didn't
have that you know, they just weren't ready for the
spotlight yet. Where now I'm like, no, this roster makes sense.
Like there they just have backup plans for if Yokicic
is off, if Jamal Murray is off and not giving
you you know, well the record with him scoring over

(45:08):
twenty a game was absurd last year, but like it
just it gives you that flexibility and that's what you're
gonna need. I mean, I think if anything that was
like that was the big takeaway from the playoffs last year, right,
is it's like depth matters so much in today's NBA.

Speaker 1 (45:22):
Yeah, and that all comes back to the parody conversation
that we were having earlier. Just the ways in which
this new CBA impacts roster building makes it so bad
that depth is the more important part then necessarily just
the top end of the roster like it was previously
to your point, when you could have jokicch Jamal Murray

(45:44):
and Michael Porter Junior and be like, you know what,
we're good. That's our big three. We can we can
carry this and just fill in the spare parts around it.
And I think that's been part of the reason that
you've seen really the Lakers kind of struggle here over
the past four or five year is not necessarily just
in the last year or so since since the CBA

(46:05):
was implemented, because they have been trying to follow that
old bottle of Okay, here's our really Sun and Moon
players in Lebron James and Anthony Davis. Now Lebron James
and Luka Danceech. Let's fill in with pieces around them.
Depth is important, and good depth, not just depth for
depth sake, is really the key.

Speaker 2 (46:26):
I don't think it really gets talked about it like
as much, but I think the one thing too specifically,
like Lakers wise, that really did them in. And because
you talk about the model and like what they were
preparing for, they just they were they were all in
on Kawhi and they were so close to landing Kawhi. Yeah,
if you look at that roster with Lebron Kawhi and
ad you go, oh hey, like assuming health, like there
they are, they're beating anybody, you know it did they

(46:49):
had to pivot then they then this one, the whole
Russell Westbrook thing happened, and that kind.

Speaker 3 (46:53):
Of cooked their books for a little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:54):
Like they've done a decent enough job getting depth in
the past two years. And I don't even hate all
the moves they made this past offseason. I just don't
know if it's enough. I guess this is my question.
Like there's still I know they got eight in, but
like we've seen what kind of happens with Ayton is
your lead big at this point, Like there's still a
few pieces short there. I feel like they probably need

(47:16):
another wing. I don't know, they just like and that
was also part of the like trading Lebron or trading
for Luca, like you did, you gave up a lot
of defense to to go play with Luca. I think
that was on display last year. They've done a better
job at kind of filling out that roster to make
it more defensive oriented. And I'm interested to see the
slim down Luca too. Like Luca has decided that he's

(47:37):
on the Revenge Tour this offseason, which good for him.
Like that's, hey, this is what everybody's been calling for,
Like they want you to lock in and be, you know,
be the top player in the NBA, like you kind
of have the potential to be.

Speaker 3 (47:48):
You know, I'm excited to watch it.

Speaker 2 (47:49):
But you're right, Like I think their their depth just
that that's what has me like in the Western Conference
with them, like you know, you talk about your tears
and it's you know, you mentioned Okay, see you mentioned Houston,
you mentioned I think is Tier one. That tier to
me is like the Lakers, the Warriors, the Clippers, the Timberwolves,
and that's probably it, like all the varying extents. Maybe

(48:11):
one of them drops a Tier three. But like to me,
you have to have a lot of things go right
for them to make a mid season move for them
to just jump into the true contention. He again unfortunate
for them because, like you said, you put you even
those two tier teams, you put them out East, and
I'm like, hey, welcome to the conference finals, all right, exactly,
look around, book your tickets in New York. They're on

(48:33):
sale right now. But yeah, it's uh, they just need
to make a little bit more and maybe to different
extents like I do you know we talked about Clipper
a little earlier, like you get me up to like
three or four.

Speaker 3 (48:45):
With the Clippers.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Honestly, if everything goes right, like it's always healthy.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
It's a bit it's a big gift for me with
the Clippers because it very much just feels like a
roster that, yes, we had the we have the names.
We added a couple more this offseason, but a couple
of things go sideways with one or two of those
guys missing extended time, and I start to get a
little bit worried about where they fall in what is

(49:12):
a stacked Western conference. I don't think they fall out
of the playoffs by the stretch of the inatination, but
I just mean in terms of jumping up into that
tier one, Like that's what has been more worried than
anything else.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Where are you at with Golden State.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah, I can't. I can't get there with them to
get them into that top tier. I mean, Steph still
incredible doing and doing mind blowing things, like the roster,
the roster around him has been solid in a lot

(49:48):
of ways that they've built up. But I just I
don't know watching watching them in the season last year
in the postseason, it just like there there was a
little bit of a gap between where they are right
now and where that group that is really pushing for
not only the conference finals but the NBA Finals is

(50:11):
at the moment, and I just I can't get there
with putting them up into that tiar No.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
I need to see them be. It's a lot of
health with them too. Like the regular season, I think
how they position themselves is going to be huge seating wise,
like try to, you know, get yourselves in the best
matchups possible. But you're right, like with their age, you know,
how hard can you really go in the regular season anymore?
Because if they're not healthy for the playoffs then we
already kind of know what it is, like we saw
it last year with what happens.

Speaker 3 (50:39):
So you know again though with Steph.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
With Jimmy, they're going to intrigue me no matter what,
And I still love the Warriors going for like getting
Jimmy Butler was absolutely the right move for them, Like
that's what you should be doing, trying to you know
that the team posts Steph and post their last championship run,
like they're not really in a position to win anything
with Jimmy, you at least have like worlds where that
can happen. Like pre Jimmy it was like, no, we're

(51:02):
just gonna let Steph ride off into the sunset, or
he's gonna go ask to get traded somewhere else and go,
you know, make one last run at it.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Yeah, it feels very much like a team that because
to your point, because of those guys needing to be
healthy and needing to be probably not minutes restricted in
terms of like a strict time cap on what they're
playing each game, but the less where you can put
on the better during the course of the regular season
falls into that four or five, six or the seven

(51:32):
seed last year, somewhere in that realm of the standings
because of what they're trying to save themselves for for
the postseason. And then you know, if you get to
the postseason and those guys are relatively healthy. All that's
are off. I'm not I'm not going to sit here
and say Jimmy Butler and Steph Curry can't get a
ton of the postseason like I'm I can't. I can't

(51:52):
say that. But it's just that game in, game out
during the course of the regular season that I don't
I don't know that I can put them up in
that same sort of tier that the rest of those
teams are. No.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
I mean, they closed strong at the end of the
second half last year. And that's what I think you
have to be encouraged about. Is it's like, hey, in
a limited sample size, they're pretty good. When it mattered,
they really were starting to click on something. It was
an injury that kind of took away from it a
little bit, And so I think there's enough there to
be encouraged about. But more importantly, as we begin to
wrap up this episode, there is one team that also

(52:25):
finished extremely strong in the second half of the season,
and that is the defending Super Bowl champion in Philadelphia Eagles.

Speaker 3 (52:31):
Who are I got the old one out today.

Speaker 2 (52:33):
This isn't even the last one, this is the first
one now, But yeah, I mean that's still you go
back and watch the Patriots game and it's like, how
did they win that game? Like I still don't know
how they won that game, and not like last year
where it was like now we smoked them. That was great,
But yeah we're here, you know, Eagles Dallas like repeat
season potentially on We know that's hard to do in

(52:53):
the NFL, but kind of like the Eastern Conference, I
think the NFC is kind of weak right now as
a look around, and so I think, like that's just
why I'm bullish. What it all comes down to. It's like, yo,
if I'm in the AFC and I got to play
some combo of like the Bengals, the Bills, the Ravens,
and the Chiefs, that's not fun. Like that's two basically
Super Bowls you have to win to get there, maybe

(53:15):
even three potentially. We're like Detroit's going to be better
because they won't be injured. Other than that, like Washington
got older. We put fifty five on him last year,
Like I'm still not there yet.

Speaker 3 (53:27):
I like the Rams, honestly, the Rams.

Speaker 2 (53:29):
Are the ones people will talk about Rams we supposed.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
To beat in US last year.

Speaker 1 (53:32):
The biggest problem that I had with the Rams though,
is I don't know how much you've been following this
Matt staff or back situation.

Speaker 3 (53:37):
Yeah, I was.

Speaker 1 (53:40):
You know, Charles McDonald shout out to him from from
Yahoo Sports had a saying that you know, you don't
no one ever used to have a bad back. This
man's just got a bad back. Yeah, that's where we're at.
And when he when he's going into whatever infra red
light treatments he's going into on a day to day basis,
to get out there like that worries me. It feels

(54:03):
like late stage Tony Gromo to some extent, where the
back injury just it's taken a lot for him to
even get out there and play. But yeah, DeVante Adams
adding him, subtracting, subtracting Cooper Cup who had kind of
like fallen off a little bit, giving them a true
X receiver on the outside. Huge the only the only

(54:25):
other team right now, and it's because of the move
that they made last week that worries me. In the
NFC as the Packers and Parsons again does seemingly have
an actual back injury. Who knows if he actually plays
in Week one, but who Buddy adding that dude to
that front stee they swung.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
I like it.

Speaker 1 (54:48):
That's going for that's going all in. That's pushing the
chips to the center of the table. And yeah, I
mean that was a team to your point with the Rams,
Like Eagles didn't exactly handle the Packers in that first round,
first round wild card game last year. It took Dallas
Goddard uh stiff arming the hell out of Kenny Kenny

(55:08):
Valentine to get us past that game. But at the
end of the day, like, yeah, that's that's probably the
team that that worries me the most right now in
the in the NFC. It's I'm interested though by some
of the some of the teams that are out there.
The Vikings have a hell of a roster. I just
don't know what they have a starting quarterback with JJ McCarthy.

(55:32):
What does Chicago do in the first year under Ben Johnson,
like making it a little bit easier for Caleb Williams.
There's a lot to be interested in. But to your point,
there's no one that I'm looking at and going, oh, yeah,
they have Patrick Mahomes or Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson
or Chaupurrow Hill In the blank guy who I'm really
worried about playing in the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
They Eels have like one thing roster wise that I'm
maybe worried about, and that's the end. Like no one's
is great. I think Jalen's hunt's going to be great.
He was awesome last year as the season ended. I
have a lot of faith in that breakout. But after that,
we're kind of like relying on some journeymen a little bit.
But like I'm looking around and going be on that, Like, yeah,
Cornerback two might stink a little bit, but like you know,

(56:15):
it's pretty good everywhere else. And like I think safety
is even a little overblown at this point. Like even if,
like if Macouba is healthy, I think he's gonna play.
And Sidney Brown is like he hasn't taken the job
the way you wanted. But I don't think he's the
worst either, And that's kind of like that's fine. He
just makes me competent.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
I Also, I also think you have a the best
defensive game plan caller in the league in Vic Fangrio, who, yeah,
will figure out what his weakness. You saw it last
year in the early couple of games of Antie Maddox
is starting in the slot. The defense looks kind of
like the twenty twenty four end of the season defense

(56:54):
where they're giving up big spots, big plays, all that
sort of stuff. Cooper dejan comes into the lineup at
the slot and it was night night the rest of
the way. So that's the type of thing where, you know,
I think that Fangio a couple of weeks, first couple
of weeks may look a little bit rough, especially with
the young defense and one that you know, adds a

(57:16):
ton of younger pieces in there. What does Johad Campbell
look like when he's in about.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
What he looks like? That looks good, That point looks good.

Speaker 2 (57:27):
That's what he looks like.

Speaker 1 (57:28):
That's yeah, like what what does that look like? What
what position do we have that do we have him in?
Those are the types of things that I think the
first couple of weeks of the season, fan is going
to figure out and know how to move those chess
pieces from there on out.

Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yeah, And I mean, look, the schedule is obviously tough.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
The woe is a winning the super Bowl, you have
a tough schedule the next year, But uh no, I
mean it's hard not to feel good, just especially when
the whole offense is back. Either way, it should be
fun to have it back Dallas on Thursday night, we
hopefully smoke them.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
I can't believe they traded him for that. Just hope.
I hope Jerry Jones lives forever.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
Like I will personally sponsor Jerry Jones a billionaire, and
I will sponsor a cryo jetic chamber for that man, Like,
keep that guy alive forever. Give me any adrenaline drug
you got, Like, we've full weekend at Bernie's.

Speaker 1 (58:14):
It's crazy. Did you see. Sorry, I know we're completely
off topic right now and we're trying to end this thing,
but did you see his initial response to the press conference?
It lasted eleven minutes? Podcast listeners, Listen, We've been talking
for a while now, Kevin and I. It's been us
back and forth. At no point in time has either
of us just monologued for eleven minutes during the course

(58:37):
of this podcast. Okay, put a timer on right now,
go on a walk around the block, and I guarantee
you you will find out eleven minutes is longer than
you think.

Speaker 3 (58:46):
It is way longer.

Speaker 1 (58:48):
And that dude talked for that amount of time just
off one question, just Jerry, why'd you make a move
and just went on a ramp.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I as you said, keep him forever, I gotta pull.
I got to pull the clip one day. I think
I think I may have hit like maybe a six
minute monologue at one point on this podcast.

Speaker 3 (59:08):
And it was after I even remember what it was.

Speaker 2 (59:10):
It was after the Sixers trade.

Speaker 3 (59:12):
And this is so sad in hindsight.

Speaker 2 (59:13):
It's after the Sixers trade.

Speaker 3 (59:14):
In neuralins the well.

Speaker 2 (59:16):
But why I was so mad about it was not
the fact that they just didn't play neuralins and they
force fed okafor and didn't even try to do mbat
in neuralins, which had positive early returns and on. It
was the fact that they then lied about it and
staid that they got a first round pick out of it,
when that first round pick was like one to twenty
seven protected and for like one year and then it
chopped into two second rounders. So I was like, you

(59:37):
are lying to us, Like you aren't telling me the
Dallas Mavericks are not gonna who are not in playoff
position right now, are not gonna be a top twenty seventeen.
I was like, oh God, I was so bad, Like
they just thought we were they thought we were.

Speaker 3 (59:50):
Dumb, and that's what was more than anything.

Speaker 2 (59:52):
I'm like, of all the things this organization's done, like
don't don't gaslight me at the.

Speaker 1 (59:57):
Mid at least even even that was nearly half the
length of Jerry Jones responding to a questioner insane.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
I hate like we've had maybe because like I think
Tim may have done one way back in the day,
Like there's maybe twice in eleven years where I've done
a solo podcast and I'm so uncomfortable the whole time,
Like what do you like, I'm talking to myself for
twenty minutes, and like it's not even a monologue, Like
you know, you got the little outline, you have your
talking points and stuff, but it's like, what are we

(01:00:27):
doing here?

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
Man? Like yeah, and that and that's the other thing
that was off the cuff. That man did not have
anything in front of him. He speaking, just speaking to
the camera.

Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
At least he knew at least he knew he'd have
to justify it. But if you had to spend eleven
minutes justifying it, like probably, yeah, it's usually not great.
Hopefully you all have made the right move and listen
to this podcast. Thank you everybody for listening to the
Driving Ish NBA podcast leaves a real itun It's good
routery on the podcast. Follow Ryan on Twitter at our
underscore mayor m A y e are of course seo Athletic.

(01:01:02):
Always make sure you're checking their stuff out. Appreciate you
coming on Bud Full disclosure for house cleaning notes or
housekeeping notes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
I always do this at the end of the episode.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
Now I'm going to be out of the country for
two and a half weeks starting this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:01:16):
That's not a flex.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
I Justin can tell you where I really am, or
you can make it up.

Speaker 3 (01:01:20):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
The point is like, there might be an episode with
Justin and I between now and then, but I'm not
one hundred percent based on our schedule. If not, Justin
and I will be back together eventually at some point,
but he's gonna hold it down with a guest then
for a few weeks. It's like we're playing ring around
the podcast right now. But yeah, stay tuned for all
that coming as we get closer. Now September is upon

(01:01:41):
us NBA season will be back soon again. Anywhere you
get your podcast you can find us, leave us a
review on iTunes, or watch the podcast. I should say
on YouTube as well. Start driving to the NBA podcast
and we will see you guys next time.

Speaker 1 (01:01:54):
I think we've done my dancewers today, So on a
week dance Wednesday. See the star sign, say.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
You are. I think they get