In his best-selling book, Sapiens, Yuval Noah Harari describes the most important feature that separates human beings from all other species on the planet: Imagination. We have the ability to imagine something that does not (yet) exist, communicate the concept to others and persuade them to believe it. As a concrete example, he cites the limited liability company, an idea first hatched by the Dutch back in the 1600s. Today we are going to explore the imaginative idea of Web 3.0, an ambitious project to take usout of the quagmire that has become Web 2.0. The basic goal is to create a private internet that is much safer and more efficient than what we have today. Getting there will require imagination, education and a lot of believing. To get us on the path, we are very pleased to have as our guest Tram Vo, co-founder of MOBI, an organization that is building the infrastructure to make Web 3.0 possible.
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(00:02):
We're top executives and crazy entrepreneurs gatheredto talk about the future of electric vehicles.
This is the Driving with Done podcast. Hello and welcome to the Driving
With Done podcast. I'm your host, Michael Dunn. Well, I say
hello again because it's been a while. It's been a while since the last
(00:22):
episode. I know you missed me, right, I sure did miss you.
Guys. Hey, I have beenon a travel blitz the likes of
which I've not experienced in gosh.I want to say ten years. So
may I do a minor little travelbrag and tell you the cities I've been
to in the last one hundred eightydays. Sure, go ahead, Okay,
here we go. Hanoi, LosAngeles, Tokyo, Las Vegas twice,
(00:48):
Detroit, Ottawa, Boca Raton,Munich, f your Enze, Singapore,
Dallas, Amsterdam, mckinaw, Atlanta, Toronto, Montreal, New York,
Rome and Milan. Wait one morePisa. Yeah, almost all of
that for work, with the exceptionsof just last week. I got home
(01:08):
from a family trip. We wentRome, Forenze and up through Milan.
Phenomenal great food, fabulous architecture,amazing history. Highly recommend Italy if you're
trying to figure out what to dowith your summer vacation. All right,
it's great to be back here inthe recording studio, and it's especially exciting
(01:30):
to talk about this week's episode becauseit's an unusual one. We're gonna look
at something called web three point zero. What is it? And how will
it make our automotive lives better?Some context. In his book Sapiens many
of you probably read it, YuvalNoah Harari describes the most important feature that
(01:52):
separates human beings from all other specieson the planet. What is it?
Imagination? We humans have the abilityto imagine something that does not yet exist,
then communicate that concept to others andpersuade them to believe it. As
a concrete example, in his book, Harari cites the limited liability company LLC,
(02:16):
an idea first hatched by the Dutchback in the sixteen hundreds. Today
we take corporations for granted, butthink about it. What we have today
is a result of someone coming upwith an idea and then convincing others to
buy in. That would have beenno easy task back in the sixteen hundreds,
especially when it was related to money. Hey, Hey, look,
(02:36):
Joe, We're going to create thisentity from thin air, and then you
can own part of that entity byentrusting me with your money. Yeah right,
you get the picture. It certainlywould have taken a giant leap of
faith, but we got there,didn't we. Today we're going to explore
the imaginative idea of Web three pointzero, an ambitious project to take us
(02:59):
out of the quagmire that has becomeWeb two point zero. The basic goal
create a private internet that is somuch safer and so much more efficient than
what we have today. You'll havesecurity, you'll have safety, you have
anonymity, you have speed and efficiency. Now, getting there will require imagination,
(03:20):
education, a lot of believing toget us started on that path.
Today, I am very pleased tohave as our special guest Tramvo, co
founder of Mobi, an organization thatis building the infrastructure to make Web three
point zero possible. So let's getstarted with Tramvo, co founder Mobi,
on the Driving with Done podcast.Hello, good morning, ladies. I
(03:49):
have today two special guests. First, Tramvo, CEO of MOBI, Good
morning, Tramp, good morning,And my co pilot for this episode,
the one and only Marguerite Watanave,founder and CEO of Connection Insights. How
are you doing, Marguerite, I'mdoing well, Thank you, co pilot.
(04:12):
I like that responsibility, big time, big time responsibility. So our
focus is going to be a conversationwith Tram about her and about her company.
Let's begin at the beginning. Tram, where are you today? And
how did you get to where youare? Bike, motorcycle, bus or
(04:32):
something else? So I am basedin Los Angeles. I do love Los
Angeles. The culture diversity and thefood diversity is incredible. I get to
my office by getting out of myhouse and walk to the back garage.
Well it's a converted ADU additional dollingunit for those that you don't know the
(04:56):
acronym, and that's where I sitmost of the day. So you're a
very efficient commuter. We're talking minutesor seconds? Yeah, seconds? And
when you do need to get acrosstown, how do you do that?
Do you drive a car or doyou rely on public transport? I drive
a car. In La Is publictransportation is still not that great and we
(05:18):
are looking to get better at it. I do have a Mini that I've
had for almost two decades. That'smy main transportation. All right, a
mini for two decades. What colorblue with rally stripe, which is different
from race strike For those of youtraum, let's be bold and go right
to the heart of the matter.What is your big giant goal at Mobile?
(05:41):
What we're trying to do is creatinga private communication channel where all our
numbers own a part of it.So when you own a part of it,
you take away the power from onecentralized entity that owns the whole ecosystem
that get your data, that getto monetize your data without your control over
it. Okay, So that's abig difference between Web two what most people
(06:04):
are used to the current form ofthe Internet, or if somebody owns the
rights to a data and charges othersto use it, and then what Web
three would be would be more ofa shared service owned by a group of
people who then have access to it. Yes, so you talking about something
(06:25):
that I find extremely interesting and Ilike stories too, So just a one
minute story about the history of theInternet and how we come to Web three
right now? Is so the Internetwas actually born at UCLA. Not sure
if many of our audience know that. So early day it was called the
(06:46):
ourpartnet and you. CLA was thefirst computer node. The first note and
the first message was sent from UCLAto Stanford. The second note on October
twenty ninth, nineteen sixty nine,and the first mass such was to supposedly
sent out the letter for the wordlog in lgion and the system crashed after
(07:08):
just the first two letters. Soit was low as in low and behold,
and they didn't intend it that way, but it was a funny outcome.
But for two decades, the Internetwas only used by university and libraries
to share information. In April thirtiethand nineteen ninety three, it was opened
(07:30):
up to the general public. Andat the time it was only read only
because it was used by libraries anduniversity. Everything was only information for you
to read. And that was theWeb version one point zero. So today
we're operating in Web two point zero. That's what we currently have, and
it enables user interaction. So whatthat means is that not only you can
(07:56):
read the content, but you alsocan write and participate. Is you know,
think of town squares like twitters andFacebook and Breddit, except is much
larger than your local town square.Many people from around the Globe can come
to these town square to engage,interact, debate, argue. So the
problem with Web two we currently havethree big main reasons for it is that
(08:22):
one, the user lacked data privacyand autonomy, so that means our data
gets scraped and sold without our controland knowledge of it. I think Google
may has a bigger file on methan the irs does. I use everything
including Google Map. The second problemwith Web two is that the data store
(08:46):
and centralized platforms are targets for crimeslike cyber crimes and security threats. And
we have heard about you know,threats all the time, system being confiscated
and asked for ransom before they letit go. And the third reason for
(09:07):
back for Web two is that forany use case that we tackle, for
example, vehicle registration and titling,there are hundreds of thousands of service providers
and government agency and each with theirown unique databases that they protective of it
because of cybersecurity threats, and thesedatabases don't talk to each other, so
(09:31):
then therefore you don't have the possibilityof interoperability or automation at all. And
these three issues have been well knownto us since the beginning of Web two,
but we haven't had a technology tobe able to ship to Web three
yet, and now we do.If I wanted to say, I'm a
(09:52):
dealer car dealer, or I'm aparts supplier, or I'm an venture capitalist,
I want to join this thing calledweb three, how would that work?
So Web three is not just oneentity or a few entities. It's
the term work three has been aroundfor quite some time now, but it
(10:15):
generates a lot of confusion because it'soften conflated with the word the buzzwords like
crypto, blockchain, a matterverse,and it's actually represent a much broader vision.
So rather than having a specific technology, specific application that's built by one
company, the vision require that organizationsand governments sit down together to have standards
(10:43):
set, and we are working onthat. Many government and many entities are
doing that, including MOBI and andonce you get a standard, you need
to have the infrastructure built and thenevery business processes need to be standardized.
Even like if you're reporting the date, you probably write dates different than I
(11:03):
the way I write date, andthen the government document can have the date
differently. Those things have to bestandardized and how you report out It sounds
mundane an interesting tan when you've gotso many different countries like just to name
a few, Russia, China,the United States, Argentina. Would everybody
need to come to the table ordo you see a world in which there
(11:24):
are spheres of Web three like theWestern sphere. We all need to come
to the table and agreed on whatstandards do you use? And the World
Wide Web Consortium W three C standardsis a global open standard that anybody can
use them and if you use them, you will be able to communicate with
(11:46):
them. So that's the communication tools. But the business processes you need the
industry experts to sit down and tellus. For example, when you talk
about the EV battery, there's somuch many components where they made, where
are from? Like all those weneeded subject matter experts to sit us down,
(12:09):
sit down with us and be ableto tell us what data comes from,
who is responsible for what data,who has permission to see these datas
because some of these business processes thatare private, and that's how businesses make
money. So this is why movieis a nonprofit. The reason why we're
nonprofit so that everyone can sit downtogether and be able to work together to
(12:31):
come up with solutions. So ifa company wants to do this, they
should join us or join any webreconsortium out there. To my knowledge,
I don't think there's any that's buildingthe infrastructure yet we are what are the
first? Is not the first todo it? So come join us and
do it together with us. Whenyou say infrastructure, how would that differ
(12:54):
from what's in place today? Yes, so earlier when I talked about the
Internet, I talk about notes soucla first node, Standford second node on
the Internet is many many nodes,infrastructure open, anybody can use it.
But the problem is when you havethat, you still need centralized companies that
(13:18):
manages data and manages identities to valuateyou. So what if you can create
a federated network where the members ofmobile each can run a node and as
a collective co op federated network,whatever you call it, every entity has
(13:39):
a vote, and the vote thenwould be able to say how this whole
network is run, how it shouldbe managed, how we should communicate with
each other, how should transaction looklike? All that is standardized. And
that is if you can do thatas a private internet, within the open
internet and an order, transaction canbe safer and identifiable did that make sense?
(14:05):
Let me ask the follow up questionto that, tremor are you then
locked out if you're not a memberof this federated group or you know,
is that something that you still getto benefit from? How does that work?
You can still benefit from it,but you might not be able to
truly realize the vision of it orutilize it, so you will be a
(14:26):
consumer instead of a service provider forexample. So if you want to be
able to get in from the ground, be able to build it and understand
it, and be able to offerdigital services, then you should come and
do that with us, or youcan consume it later on and not be
able to control it. So havingto see that the teamble gives you the
(14:48):
opportunity to make some of the decisionsor maybe some of the use cases and
own part of the ecosystem instead ofjust pay to use it. You get
to be part of it ecosystem.Tram, this is such a fascinating picture
you're painting for us. How sooncan we realistically expect some elements of Web
three point zero to start kicking in? So, as mentioned, it's not
(15:13):
a one company, one technology,or one app so it's slow, it's
not going to happen overnight. Itrequires the whole industry to accept standards,
and standards is only as good asthe piece of paper is written on right.
If nobody adopts it, it's nothing. So slowly we are doing many
(15:39):
pilots and proof of concept. Theproof of concept that many of our members
are very excited about right now iscalled the Global Battery Passport. So many
of your listener probably heard of theBattery Passport. Many governments around the world
are very interested to have this closeinformation about the batteries being sold on the
(16:02):
market. You need to provide informationlike the mining of the material rare earth
materials, how many of that,how much of that is recycled, Who
make the batteries, is it domesticcontent, domestic made or not? And
all that has to be disclosed,including the state of health of the battery,
(16:25):
which really will help consumer safeguarding.The range range of anxiety, which
you know ed can't go very far. So all the information have to be
disclosed, and our members are veryinterested in how do we do this so
that the intended recipient get the infatnation they need. But not every information
(16:48):
is publicly available because they trade secret. So with work three. One of
the most powerful things you can dois you can verify the intended recipient I
qualified and authorize to receive the information. You give them the information at the
moment of transaction only and no more, no less. So then there's no
(17:10):
need to store any information before,during, or after the is transferred.
A really simple example today, Let'ssay you go to a bar and you
order a drink in the US.You have to prove that you're twenty one
years old. And if I pullout my driver license to show the bartender,
the bartender now has not only myname, my exact birthdate, which
(17:34):
the bartender does not need to knowwhere I live again, does not need
to know that. So what ifthe DMV gives you a driver license in
a digital format that is digitally signed, cryptographically verifiable, and then you have
that digital driver license in the formlet's say, of a QR code,
(17:56):
the bartender and the QR code,and that you are who you are,
twenty one years old, and that'sit, and then you can buy your
drink without having to show you exactwhat day. If you a donut on
information, I'm curious what do governmentagencies say, like the DMV think of
Web three point zero. Are theyready to play ball? Yes? So,
(18:21):
actually many states are thinking of gettingthis type of identity. So there's
a movement. I know California hasadopted this a digital driver license, and
many states are talking about it.And I think there's a webinar coming up
soon for state to learn more aboutit. So it's happening. Despite entrenched
bureaucracies and power, the governments themselvesare ready to step into this new age.
(18:48):
Yeah right, and there I thinkthere are so many use cases around
it, whether it's the license highin a vehicles registration, then you also
have you know, there's a lotof cases of of not just efficiencies,
but also of you know, privacy, right, more and more talk around
the privacy issue and that production.You know. So there are a lot
(19:08):
of use cases we've talked about here, almost kind of mind boggling almost and
you could readly you can go onand on, you know, loyalty programs,
incentives, warranty having those you know, checked on, you can just
go on and on. Let meturn a question on you, Michael.
So now for the last forty minuteswe've talked about this, So can you
(19:30):
talk about what web three is andlet's see if you've been able to now
say enough to describe it, andthen trap could say she's done a great
job explaining it or not. It'sjust see it didn't work. Yeah,
no pressure, no pressure, it'son. The exam was on. Well,
I think listening to Tram, thebig learning for me is that in
(19:52):
Web two our information is essentially belongingto some big, powerful private enterp prizes
that can manipulate and own and sellour data at will. And the vision
is to create a future in whichno single entity is actually owning that data.
It's private, like you said,it's private Internet, it's secure.
(20:15):
We can go to bed at nightknowing that someone isn't stalking us or putting
cookies on us all the time.We're independent, we have privacy, we're
secure, we don't have to worryabout bank transactions and all the rest.
So it seems like a brilliant nextmove for humanity. The challenge is to
(20:36):
get humanity to agree. How isthat? How do I score their tramp
eight plus plus plus. The oneword you might not have used with standards
around standards right setting standards that everyonecan you said, adhere to it that's
the only thing I was I wasthinking. I thought that was a plus
plus and it's here too. Yes. Yeah, So speaking of challenges out
(21:00):
there, tell us a little bitabout you, Tram wake up in the
morning. What's your daily routine?How do you get fired up to to
continue to build this entity called Boby. So my daily routine usually it's not
too regular. But to be honest, I'm not a morning person. You
(21:22):
can't tell from my schedule at all. Looking for a global organization means I
have early meeting with Europe and latemeeting with Asia. So my day can
start at six a m. Andm seten PM like last night, for
example. But it doesn't matter whatindustry I've worked in. Up until now,
I have always worked for a nonprofit. As mentioned earlier, I started
(21:47):
out well as a chemist, andthen I went on to art conservation,
restoring a lot of culture, heritage, artwork and projects around the world.
And then I went on to whichis a funny story about it as well.
I started looking into intellectual properties andhow they can be compensated. Content
(22:10):
creators are not very well compensated inthe US, and we don't have laws
that will protect them at all.For example, when it comes to music
in Europe, there's really strict ruleson how much you should pay the content
creator and how often and when.In the US there isn't. So Spotify
(22:33):
and Apple Play, for example,every year file millions and millions of iou
with the intent to settle on whothey should pay when they play the music.
But to be honest, at theend of the day, most of
them are not settled at all.So every year, that year there are
millions of IOUs that don't get paidfor. So then I went to start
(22:56):
looking into blockchain, thinking there hasto be solution for them, and there
are. Then I start thinking aboutcontent creating. We all produce content.
As mentioned, we produce content onthe internet. Every time you go onto
the Internet, your preferences are monetizedby somebody else. That lead me to
smart city use cases, which Ifind extremely exciting, and that lined up
(23:21):
with Chris Balanja, my co founder, who's really interested in mobility and automotive,
and that's how we launch movie.So it doesn't matter what field I'm
in. From the beginning has alwaysbeen about making this world just a little
bit better for all of us thatare in the world, and how we
(23:42):
consume data, and how we beable to pay for data that technically belong
to somebody and should be well compensatedfor brilliant. I've got two final questions
for you, Tam. First,it is baseball season, So to use
a baseball analogy, web three inning? Are we in first? Third?
(24:02):
Top of the second? Where arewe? I think we have moved And
by the way, I'm not abaseball person, so nine inningss so Marguerite
would have to help me out here. What do you think, Margerite,
You are involved with Moby a lot, and you know what Amumbas are interested
in. What enne will we Youknow, it's an interesting analogy. I
(24:26):
don't know if it fits though,because in the sense that any one,
two, and three, right,you're all similar, Right, you're trying
to get to a goal of andI think in this one, each inning
changes, right, there's something newor the players, I mean, the
regulations changed, and so it's notgoing to be a consistent one, two,
three up to nine. So that'swhat I would start with the baseball
(24:48):
term. But in terms of acycle of where things are, it really
comes down to I think we're stillin the preliminary stages with a lot of
momentum being built around I don't thinkanyone is going to say no, we
don't want a private group, Wedon't want to have things to be trusted.
It's not that, it's more ofa truly a lot of explanation around
(25:12):
this, because anything that has todo with data can get very people get
very protective very quickly. And sookay, final question for you Trump,
how do people learn more about youand about MOBI? Easy? So we
have a website is really easy tofind. Is dot like distributed Ledger at
technologies, so d olt dot mobimobiand that's it. And we have a
(25:37):
lot of information on our website,the working groups, the initiatives, the
standards we produce, the web threeinfrastructure if you want to learn more about
it. And then of course weactive on LinkedIn and Twitter under the name
MOBI and on our website's membership inquiryform you can fill out if you would
like to have a conversation with usdive deeper, or you can also send
(26:03):
me an email as well, whichis tram Atmobi dot work. Now that's
phenomenal. Really appreciate your time today. Learned a lot. It's the future
it's coming together. It's massively complex, but of course it is. Thank
you, ladies, and we canall get together soon for a ride in
your mini. All right, takecare, Thank you again. There we
(26:32):
have it, ladies and gentlemen.Web three point zero is sort of like
the most modern version of that limitedliability company. We're in the midst of
making history. Listening to Tram,I felt myself nodding yes over and over
again. Bring on Web three.At the same time, I reckon a
lot of people, including me,will need time to understand exactly how it
(26:53):
works. My key takeaway Web twopoint zero. What we have now will
be increasingly uns safe and unreliable.Bots galore AI will only accelerate the confusion.
So we need this breakthrough called Webthree. And I'm happy that we
have smart people like tramvo Enter teamleading the way. Hey, thank you
(27:15):
very much for joining me today.Really appreciate your support. Take a moment
if you enjoyed this episode to shareit with a friend. I am Michael
Dunn and this is the Driving withDone podcast. Thank you for listening to
Driving with Done. Don't forget tosubscribe, rate and review the podcast,
and to reach Michael Dunn go tozozogo dot com.
We're top executives and crazy entrepreneurs gatheredto talk about the future of electric vehicles.
This is the Driving with Done podcast. Hello and welcome to the Driving
With Done podcast. I'm your host, Michael Dunn. Well, I say
hello again because it's been a while. It's been a while since the last
(00:22):
episode. I know you missed me, right, I sure did miss you.
Guys. Hey, I have beenon a travel blitz the likes of
which I've not experienced in gosh.I want to say ten years. So
may I do a minor little travelbrag and tell you the cities I've been
to in the last one hundred eightydays. Sure, go ahead, Okay,
here we go. Hanoi, LosAngeles, Tokyo, Las Vegas twice,
(00:48):
Detroit, Ottawa, Boca Raton,Munich, f your Enze, Singapore,
Dallas, Amsterdam, mckinaw, Atlanta, Toronto, Montreal, New York,
Rome and Milan. Wait one morePisa. Yeah, almost all of
that for work, with the exceptionsof just last week. I got home
(01:08):
from a family trip. We wentRome, Forenze and up through Milan.
Phenomenal great food, fabulous architecture,amazing history. Highly recommend Italy if you're
trying to figure out what to dowith your summer vacation. All right,
it's great to be back here inthe recording studio, and it's especially exciting
(01:30):
to talk about this week's episode becauseit's an unusual one. We're gonna look
at something called web three point zero. What is it? And how will
it make our automotive lives better?Some context. In his book Sapiens many
of you probably read it, YuvalNoah Harari describes the most important feature that
(01:52):
separates human beings from all other specieson the planet. What is it?
Imagination? We humans have the abilityto imagine something that does not yet exist,
then communicate that concept to others andpersuade them to believe it. As
a concrete example, in his book, Harari cites the limited liability company LLC,
(02:16):
an idea first hatched by the Dutchback in the sixteen hundreds. Today
we take corporations for granted, butthink about it. What we have today
is a result of someone coming upwith an idea and then convincing others to
buy in. That would have beenno easy task back in the sixteen hundreds,
especially when it was related to money. Hey, Hey, look,
(02:36):
Joe, We're going to create thisentity from thin air, and then you
can own part of that entity byentrusting me with your money. Yeah right,
you get the picture. It certainlywould have taken a giant leap of
faith, but we got there,didn't we. Today we're going to explore
the imaginative idea of Web three pointzero, an ambitious project to take us
(02:59):
out of the quagmire that has becomeWeb two point zero. The basic goal
create a private internet that is somuch safer and so much more efficient than
what we have today. You'll havesecurity, you'll have safety, you have
anonymity, you have speed and efficiency. Now, getting there will require imagination,
(03:20):
education, a lot of believing toget us started on that path.
Today, I am very pleased tohave as our special guest Tramvo, co
founder of Mobi, an organization thatis building the infrastructure to make Web three
point zero possible. So let's getstarted with Tramvo, co founder Mobi,
on the Driving with Done podcast.Hello, good morning, ladies. I
(03:49):
have today two special guests. First, Tramvo, CEO of MOBI, Good
morning, Tramp, good morning,And my co pilot for this episode,
the one and only Marguerite Watanave,founder and CEO of Connection Insights. How
are you doing, Marguerite, I'mdoing well, Thank you, co pilot.
(04:12):
I like that responsibility, big time, big time responsibility. So our
focus is going to be a conversationwith Tram about her and about her company.
Let's begin at the beginning. Tram, where are you today? And
how did you get to where youare? Bike, motorcycle, bus or
(04:32):
something else? So I am basedin Los Angeles. I do love Los
Angeles. The culture diversity and thefood diversity is incredible. I get to
my office by getting out of myhouse and walk to the back garage.
Well it's a converted ADU additional dollingunit for those that you don't know the
(04:56):
acronym, and that's where I sitmost of the day. So you're a
very efficient commuter. We're talking minutesor seconds? Yeah, seconds? And
when you do need to get acrosstown, how do you do that?
Do you drive a car or doyou rely on public transport? I drive
a car. In La Is publictransportation is still not that great and we
(05:18):
are looking to get better at it. I do have a Mini that I've
had for almost two decades. That'smy main transportation. All right, a
mini for two decades. What colorblue with rally stripe, which is different
from race strike For those of youtraum, let's be bold and go right
to the heart of the matter.What is your big giant goal at Mobile?
(05:41):
What we're trying to do is creatinga private communication channel where all our
numbers own a part of it.So when you own a part of it,
you take away the power from onecentralized entity that owns the whole ecosystem
that get your data, that getto monetize your data without your control over
it. Okay, So that's abig difference between Web two what most people
(06:04):
are used to the current form ofthe Internet, or if somebody owns the
rights to a data and charges othersto use it, and then what Web
three would be would be more ofa shared service owned by a group of
people who then have access to it. Yes, so you talking about something
(06:25):
that I find extremely interesting and Ilike stories too, So just a one
minute story about the history of theInternet and how we come to Web three
right now? Is so the Internetwas actually born at UCLA. Not sure
if many of our audience know that. So early day it was called the
(06:46):
ourpartnet and you. CLA was thefirst computer node. The first note and
the first message was sent from UCLAto Stanford. The second note on October
twenty ninth, nineteen sixty nine,and the first mass such was to supposedly
sent out the letter for the wordlog in lgion and the system crashed after
(07:08):
just the first two letters. Soit was low as in low and behold,
and they didn't intend it that way, but it was a funny outcome.
But for two decades, the Internetwas only used by university and libraries
to share information. In April thirtiethand nineteen ninety three, it was opened
(07:30):
up to the general public. Andat the time it was only read only
because it was used by libraries anduniversity. Everything was only information for you
to read. And that was theWeb version one point zero. So today
we're operating in Web two point zero. That's what we currently have, and
it enables user interaction. So whatthat means is that not only you can
(07:56):
read the content, but you alsocan write and participate. Is you know,
think of town squares like twitters andFacebook and Breddit, except is much
larger than your local town square.Many people from around the Globe can come
to these town square to engage,interact, debate, argue. So the
problem with Web two we currently havethree big main reasons for it is that
(08:22):
one, the user lacked data privacyand autonomy, so that means our data
gets scraped and sold without our controland knowledge of it. I think Google
may has a bigger file on methan the irs does. I use everything
including Google Map. The second problemwith Web two is that the data store
(08:46):
and centralized platforms are targets for crimeslike cyber crimes and security threats. And
we have heard about you know,threats all the time, system being confiscated
and asked for ransom before they letit go. And the third reason for
(09:07):
back for Web two is that forany use case that we tackle, for
example, vehicle registration and titling,there are hundreds of thousands of service providers
and government agency and each with theirown unique databases that they protective of it
because of cybersecurity threats, and thesedatabases don't talk to each other, so
(09:31):
then therefore you don't have the possibilityof interoperability or automation at all. And
these three issues have been well knownto us since the beginning of Web two,
but we haven't had a technology tobe able to ship to Web three
yet, and now we do.If I wanted to say, I'm a
(09:52):
dealer car dealer, or I'm aparts supplier, or I'm an venture capitalist,
I want to join this thing calledweb three, how would that work?
So Web three is not just oneentity or a few entities. It's
the term work three has been aroundfor quite some time now, but it
(10:15):
generates a lot of confusion because it'soften conflated with the word the buzzwords like
crypto, blockchain, a matterverse,and it's actually represent a much broader vision.
So rather than having a specific technology, specific application that's built by one
company, the vision require that organizationsand governments sit down together to have standards
(10:43):
set, and we are working onthat. Many government and many entities are
doing that, including MOBI and andonce you get a standard, you need
to have the infrastructure built and thenevery business processes need to be standardized.
Even like if you're reporting the date, you probably write dates different than I
(11:03):
the way I write date, andthen the government document can have the date
differently. Those things have to bestandardized and how you report out It sounds
mundane an interesting tan when you've gotso many different countries like just to name
a few, Russia, China,the United States, Argentina. Would everybody
need to come to the table ordo you see a world in which there
(11:24):
are spheres of Web three like theWestern sphere. We all need to come
to the table and agreed on whatstandards do you use? And the World
Wide Web Consortium W three C standardsis a global open standard that anybody can
use them and if you use them, you will be able to communicate with
(11:46):
them. So that's the communication tools. But the business processes you need the
industry experts to sit down and tellus. For example, when you talk
about the EV battery, there's somuch many components where they made, where
are from? Like all those weneeded subject matter experts to sit us down,
(12:09):
sit down with us and be ableto tell us what data comes from,
who is responsible for what data,who has permission to see these datas
because some of these business processes thatare private, and that's how businesses make
money. So this is why movieis a nonprofit. The reason why we're
nonprofit so that everyone can sit downtogether and be able to work together to
(12:31):
come up with solutions. So ifa company wants to do this, they
should join us or join any webreconsortium out there. To my knowledge,
I don't think there's any that's buildingthe infrastructure yet we are what are the
first? Is not the first todo it? So come join us and
do it together with us. Whenyou say infrastructure, how would that differ
(12:54):
from what's in place today? Yes, so earlier when I talked about the
Internet, I talk about notes soucla first node, Standford second node on
the Internet is many many nodes,infrastructure open, anybody can use it.
But the problem is when you havethat, you still need centralized companies that
(13:18):
manages data and manages identities to valuateyou. So what if you can create
a federated network where the members ofmobile each can run a node and as
a collective co op federated network,whatever you call it, every entity has
(13:39):
a vote, and the vote thenwould be able to say how this whole
network is run, how it shouldbe managed, how we should communicate with
each other, how should transaction looklike? All that is standardized. And
that is if you can do thatas a private internet, within the open
internet and an order, transaction canbe safer and identifiable did that make sense?
(14:05):
Let me ask the follow up questionto that, tremor are you then
locked out if you're not a memberof this federated group or you know,
is that something that you still getto benefit from? How does that work?
You can still benefit from it,but you might not be able to
truly realize the vision of it orutilize it, so you will be a
(14:26):
consumer instead of a service provider forexample. So if you want to be
able to get in from the ground, be able to build it and understand
it, and be able to offerdigital services, then you should come and
do that with us, or youcan consume it later on and not be
able to control it. So havingto see that the teamble gives you the
(14:48):
opportunity to make some of the decisionsor maybe some of the use cases and
own part of the ecosystem instead ofjust pay to use it. You get
to be part of it ecosystem.Tram, this is such a fascinating picture
you're painting for us. How sooncan we realistically expect some elements of Web
three point zero to start kicking in? So, as mentioned, it's not
(15:13):
a one company, one technology,or one app so it's slow, it's
not going to happen overnight. Itrequires the whole industry to accept standards,
and standards is only as good asthe piece of paper is written on right.
If nobody adopts it, it's nothing. So slowly we are doing many
(15:39):
pilots and proof of concept. Theproof of concept that many of our members
are very excited about right now iscalled the Global Battery Passport. So many
of your listener probably heard of theBattery Passport. Many governments around the world
are very interested to have this closeinformation about the batteries being sold on the
(16:02):
market. You need to provide informationlike the mining of the material rare earth
materials, how many of that,how much of that is recycled, Who
make the batteries, is it domesticcontent, domestic made or not? And
all that has to be disclosed,including the state of health of the battery,
(16:25):
which really will help consumer safeguarding.The range range of anxiety, which
you know ed can't go very far. So all the information have to be
disclosed, and our members are veryinterested in how do we do this so
that the intended recipient get the infatnation they need. But not every information
(16:48):
is publicly available because they trade secret. So with work three. One of
the most powerful things you can dois you can verify the intended recipient I
qualified and authorize to receive the information. You give them the information at the
moment of transaction only and no more, no less. So then there's no
(17:10):
need to store any information before,during, or after the is transferred.
A really simple example today, Let'ssay you go to a bar and you
order a drink in the US.You have to prove that you're twenty one
years old. And if I pullout my driver license to show the bartender,
the bartender now has not only myname, my exact birthdate, which
(17:34):
the bartender does not need to knowwhere I live again, does not need
to know that. So what ifthe DMV gives you a driver license in
a digital format that is digitally signed, cryptographically verifiable, and then you have
that digital driver license in the formlet's say, of a QR code,
(17:56):
the bartender and the QR code,and that you are who you are,
twenty one years old, and that'sit, and then you can buy your
drink without having to show you exactwhat day. If you a donut on
information, I'm curious what do governmentagencies say, like the DMV think of
Web three point zero. Are theyready to play ball? Yes? So,
(18:21):
actually many states are thinking of gettingthis type of identity. So there's
a movement. I know California hasadopted this a digital driver license, and
many states are talking about it.And I think there's a webinar coming up
soon for state to learn more aboutit. So it's happening. Despite entrenched
bureaucracies and power, the governments themselvesare ready to step into this new age.
(18:48):
Yeah right, and there I thinkthere are so many use cases around
it, whether it's the license highin a vehicles registration, then you also
have you know, there's a lotof cases of of not just efficiencies,
but also of you know, privacy, right, more and more talk around
the privacy issue and that production.You know. So there are a lot
(19:08):
of use cases we've talked about here, almost kind of mind boggling almost and
you could readly you can go onand on, you know, loyalty programs,
incentives, warranty having those you know, checked on, you can just
go on and on. Let meturn a question on you, Michael.
So now for the last forty minuteswe've talked about this, So can you
(19:30):
talk about what web three is andlet's see if you've been able to now
say enough to describe it, andthen trap could say she's done a great
job explaining it or not. It'sjust see it didn't work. Yeah,
no pressure, no pressure, it'son. The exam was on. Well,
I think listening to Tram, thebig learning for me is that in
(19:52):
Web two our information is essentially belongingto some big, powerful private enterp prizes
that can manipulate and own and sellour data at will. And the vision
is to create a future in whichno single entity is actually owning that data.
It's private, like you said,it's private Internet, it's secure.
(20:15):
We can go to bed at nightknowing that someone isn't stalking us or putting
cookies on us all the time.We're independent, we have privacy, we're
secure, we don't have to worryabout bank transactions and all the rest.
So it seems like a brilliant nextmove for humanity. The challenge is to
(20:36):
get humanity to agree. How isthat? How do I score their tramp
eight plus plus plus. The oneword you might not have used with standards
around standards right setting standards that everyonecan you said, adhere to it that's
the only thing I was I wasthinking. I thought that was a plus
plus and it's here too. Yes. Yeah, So speaking of challenges out
(21:00):
there, tell us a little bitabout you, Tram wake up in the
morning. What's your daily routine?How do you get fired up to to
continue to build this entity called Boby. So my daily routine usually it's not
too regular. But to be honest, I'm not a morning person. You
(21:22):
can't tell from my schedule at all. Looking for a global organization means I
have early meeting with Europe and latemeeting with Asia. So my day can
start at six a m. Andm seten PM like last night, for
example. But it doesn't matter whatindustry I've worked in. Up until now,
I have always worked for a nonprofit. As mentioned earlier, I started
(21:47):
out well as a chemist, andthen I went on to art conservation,
restoring a lot of culture, heritage, artwork and projects around the world.
And then I went on to whichis a funny story about it as well.
I started looking into intellectual properties andhow they can be compensated. Content
(22:10):
creators are not very well compensated inthe US, and we don't have laws
that will protect them at all.For example, when it comes to music
in Europe, there's really strict ruleson how much you should pay the content
creator and how often and when.In the US there isn't. So Spotify
(22:33):
and Apple Play, for example,every year file millions and millions of iou
with the intent to settle on whothey should pay when they play the music.
But to be honest, at theend of the day, most of
them are not settled at all.So every year, that year there are
millions of IOUs that don't get paidfor. So then I went to start
(22:56):
looking into blockchain, thinking there hasto be solution for them, and there
are. Then I start thinking aboutcontent creating. We all produce content.
As mentioned, we produce content onthe internet. Every time you go onto
the Internet, your preferences are monetizedby somebody else. That lead me to
smart city use cases, which Ifind extremely exciting, and that lined up
(23:21):
with Chris Balanja, my co founder, who's really interested in mobility and automotive,
and that's how we launch movie.So it doesn't matter what field I'm
in. From the beginning has alwaysbeen about making this world just a little
bit better for all of us thatare in the world, and how we
(23:42):
consume data, and how we beable to pay for data that technically belong
to somebody and should be well compensatedfor brilliant. I've got two final questions
for you, Tam. First,it is baseball season, So to use
a baseball analogy, web three inning? Are we in first? Third?
(24:02):
Top of the second? Where arewe? I think we have moved And
by the way, I'm not abaseball person, so nine inningss so Marguerite
would have to help me out here. What do you think, Margerite,
You are involved with Moby a lot, and you know what Amumbas are interested
in. What enne will we Youknow, it's an interesting analogy. I
(24:26):
don't know if it fits though,because in the sense that any one,
two, and three, right,you're all similar, Right, you're trying
to get to a goal of andI think in this one, each inning
changes, right, there's something newor the players, I mean, the
regulations changed, and so it's notgoing to be a consistent one, two,
three up to nine. So that'swhat I would start with the baseball
(24:48):
term. But in terms of acycle of where things are, it really
comes down to I think we're stillin the preliminary stages with a lot of
momentum being built around I don't thinkanyone is going to say no, we
don't want a private group, Wedon't want to have things to be trusted.
It's not that, it's more ofa truly a lot of explanation around
(25:12):
this, because anything that has todo with data can get very people get
very protective very quickly. And sookay, final question for you Trump,
how do people learn more about youand about MOBI? Easy? So we
have a website is really easy tofind. Is dot like distributed Ledger at
technologies, so d olt dot mobimobiand that's it. And we have a
(25:37):
lot of information on our website,the working groups, the initiatives, the
standards we produce, the web threeinfrastructure if you want to learn more about
it. And then of course weactive on LinkedIn and Twitter under the name
MOBI and on our website's membership inquiryform you can fill out if you would
like to have a conversation with usdive deeper, or you can also send
(26:03):
me an email as well, whichis tram Atmobi dot work. Now that's
phenomenal. Really appreciate your time today. Learned a lot. It's the future
it's coming together. It's massively complex, but of course it is. Thank
you, ladies, and we canall get together soon for a ride in
your mini. All right, takecare, Thank you again. There we
(26:32):
have it, ladies and gentlemen.Web three point zero is sort of like
the most modern version of that limitedliability company. We're in the midst of
making history. Listening to Tram,I felt myself nodding yes over and over
again. Bring on Web three.At the same time, I reckon a
lot of people, including me,will need time to understand exactly how it
(26:53):
works. My key takeaway Web twopoint zero. What we have now will
be increasingly uns safe and unreliable.Bots galore AI will only accelerate the confusion.
So we need this breakthrough called Webthree. And I'm happy that we
have smart people like tramvo Enter teamleading the way. Hey, thank you
(27:15):
very much for joining me today.Really appreciate your support. Take a moment
if you enjoyed this episode to shareit with a friend. I am Michael
Dunn and this is the Driving withDone podcast. Thank you for listening to
Driving with Done. Don't forget tosubscribe, rate and review the podcast,
and to reach Michael Dunn go tozozogo dot com.
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