WBD Bidding War with Tony Maglio: Devon & The Duke Episode 51

Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
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(00:49):
Brothers and sisters, welcome back.
Welcome back to Season 2 of the Devon of the Duke Podcast.
This is a limited edition serieshosted by your main man.
Duke loves wrestling and of course the Hall of Famer, the
man that continues to make history.
And we're going to get to the history that we just made most

(01:10):
recently in a moment. But of course, the one, the only
brother, Devon Dudley. How you doing that Devon?
I'm doing good. How you doing, Duke?
Listen man, I am over the moon. OK?
You don't realize this, but as folks are listening to this,
which it'll drop on Friday this week, this episode's going to
drop on my Birthday 1212. Wow.

(01:33):
Yes, Sir. Yes, Sir.
Look at that. So I am in very high spirits and
you know, I got some great news to share with you with all of
our wonderful listeners. But before we get to any of that
good stuff there, we have a special guest that is going to

(01:57):
be joining us in a moment. Literally the television editor
of The Hollywood Reporter, a guywho is a a great friend and
collaborator that I've known foryears, and somebody who really
has his finger on the pulse of the television and the Hollywood
industry. The one, the only Mr. Tony

(02:19):
Maglio. What's going on there, Max?
Hey, man, I I'm doing well. How are you guys doing, Devon?
I don't think we've spoke, but Duke, it's great to hear your
voice again. Nice hearing you, Tony.
Man, I'm, I'm just over this. I'm not over the moon about
everything that's going on rightnow.
How are you? I mean, I was, I was just
telling Duke, I said, you know, here it is.
I did his show one time and thensomebody got out of line with me

(02:42):
at a show and I said, you know what, I'm going to get the point
across. I'm going to call Duke and let
me back on the show again. And we got on the show and it
just went crazy from there. So I'm just happy that, you
know, everything is going well for us and we're moving on into
here. Everything that's going on right
now, I'm just over the moon ecstatic about.
It yeah, Congrats on I heard youwon a couple of things, Duke.

(03:03):
Congrats to you guys, man. That's wonderful.
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, thank you very
much. I'm, I'm ecstatic about that.
I mean, again, I got my own YouTube channel that's doing
well, but now this is doing extremely well and I couldn't be
doing it with a better guy than Duke.
Yeah, he's a good dude. Absolutely.
Well, happy to be here. Thank you again for having me.
Well, thank you and and folks, we're going to get to the awards

(03:25):
once we finish up with Tony, butI definitely had to bring in an
expert. I had to bring in somebody who
can educate us and educate you listeners on the latest news.
I know the dirt sheets are trying to speculate and all that
good stuff, but you'd need somebody who actually is in the
television world to explain thisstuff and give us the real
facts. I'm talking about the sale of

(03:48):
Warner Brothers Discovery, AKAWBD.
There are two suitors who are battling to see who's going to
own TNTTBSHBO, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
So Tony Maglio, give it to a straight man, where are we at
with this whole WBD sale? And from your perspective, what

(04:11):
what is important that everyone should be paying attention to?
Yeah, I think it's most important to say that we're
still early innings, but that doesn't mean something isn't
happening. I mean, it's certainly things
are happening. It, you know, Netflix's offer
for for Warner Brothers streaming in studios was
accepted. And you know, that includes a
lot and it doesn't include a lot.

(04:31):
But the thing that's important to to say before we even get
into what it does and does not include is that we still have
another suitor, at least one on the table.
And they're serious paramount made, you know, a pretty hefty
bid. It would be, you know, kind of a
hostile takeover situation or, you know, hostile acquisition

(04:53):
because, again, you know, that deal with Netflix and with
Warner Brothers is done. I mean, it's signed, but it's
still, you know, 12 to 18 monthsaway from being, you know,
active. I guess we have to go through
regulatory and so on and so forth.
So there's still a better chance, I think, than most
people might assume that Warner Brothers Discovery in its

(05:15):
totality goes to Paramount. I don't think we'll see like an
NBC Universal come back in at this stage.
I do think we're probably in A2 horse race.
But what's presently not 100% done is that Warner Brothers
goes to Netflix without the Discovery part of things which

(05:36):
we can get into. What that includes and doesn't
include or even goes to Netflix at all if Paramount continues to
be aggressive and possibly even upsets offer again.
So. So Netflix wants portions of
what we know as Warner Brothers Discovery, yet Paramount wants

(05:57):
the whole thing. They want their movie division,
they want all their television properties and what have you.
Do I have that right? Yeah, that's, that's absolutely
correct. Paramount wants the whole thing
and, and one of the reasons theywant the whole thing is because,
you know, in in their eyes and Paramount's eyes, it is a
immediately a better offer to say we will take the whole thing

(06:19):
versus you're going to go through this split into two that
Warner Brothers Discovery was going to go into anyway.
And we only want this piece. And then maybe we're going to
break it up this way. So, you know, it's a much
cleaner transaction it seems at this point if it actually did go
to Paramount as as opposed to itto Netflix.

(06:39):
For, for wrestling fans and and for wrestlers, because I'm going
to tell you right now, you know,obviously Devon being a Hall of
Famer, he has a lot of friends in All Elite Wrestling, which
airs on TBS, TNT and HBO Max in various capacities.
For the wrestlers and wrestling fans, where do you think this?

(07:00):
What should they be paying attention to?
What? What matters to them most or
should matter to them most, I should say as it relates to all
this. Yeah, man, there are so many
things. I hope I'm not too long winded
on this. Like if Warner Brothers only if
the studios and streaming as planned goes to Netflix.
Things are very confusing because that does not include

(07:21):
TBSTNT, but it does include HBO Max, right?
So in theory you would expect that under the current AW
contract it would continue to air on TNTTBS and to stream on
HBO Max. Now those might soon, not soon,
but you know, within a year or whatever possible be under

(07:41):
different companies. Interestingly enough, about a
year or so is I believe what's left on the AEW deal with Warner
Brothers Discovery. So so much can change and there
is that X Factor of would WW ES agreement with Netflix for RAW
and for other properties? Would that even allow for AEW to

(08:04):
stream on Netflix? My guess is they're probably
don't have. WWE probably doesn't have as
much strength in this situation as they did with USA Network
where they did not allow rival wrestling companies to air along
with Raw and and or Smack Down if it was on then at the time.

(08:26):
But if Netflix and HBO Max stay separate, will AEW be allowed to
stream on HBO Max still? I would think yes.
But then what happens if Netflixand HBO Max do integrate sort of
in the way that Disney Plus and Hulu have?
Then what does that mean for contracts in terms of, you know,

(08:48):
non competes for rivals and so on and so forth?
So it is honestly so wide open and confusing right now.
Hopefully we can give some clarity to our fellow wrestling
fans out there, but there are there are so many moving parts,
I couldn't even possibly list them all.
Devon, you're you're somebody who has gone through similar

(09:08):
situations during your tenure with WWE and ECW, quite frankly,
changing networks and things like that to different shows
from a wrestler's perspective. Do do you have any specific
questions for Tony as as someonewho is in the weeds and kind of
covering what's happening here? The the major network that AW is
is under right now, they're in the process of being sold.

(09:32):
Do you have any questions from awrestling perspective about
that? Yeah, well, I remember ECW being
under TN TNN or was it called TNN or TN it?
It went from TNN, it went from CNN to Spike TV.
Yeah, right. I remember there was controversy
with that because WWE still had was still on the USA Network or

(09:57):
something like that. And then they were transferring
over to TNN and it knocked off ECW.
They couldn't do it anymore. So they wind up cancelling the
contract with ECWI. Remember Paul Heyman was
extremely upset over that. The whole company was as a whole
because we've we lost our TV deal.
That was one of the biggest things that ECW had the show

(10:20):
for. But all the hard work that we
had done over the years to get that deal and then for us to be
knocked off because the WWE was coming to TNN and it just, I
think that really, you know, broke ECW to where the company,
you know, wasn't making any money because we didn't have ATV
deal. We had to go back to the days of

(10:43):
making the footage and sending it out to different networks
that would put us on. Does that hold true with AEW if
that? Happens.
Yeah, I think, I mean, listen Devon, the the, the history of
wrestling in terms of its physical geographical terms and
it's TV territories are like they're one in the same, right.

(11:06):
And you're absolutely right. There have been several
wrestling promotions that sort of just got screwed because a
network got a better wrestling promotion, better in this case,
meaning bigger in their eyes at least, you know, to just to
distribute. So AWI do think they may end up

(11:26):
as or they could. I shouldn't say may.
They certainly could end up as avictim of this just could.
Meaning it seems a little more of a hypothetical word to use
than May, though I guess they mean the same.
But it really depends on what Netflix and HBO Max do, because
for now, Netflix executives are saying all the right things.

(11:48):
They're saying we don't have plans to merge Netflix and HBO
Max because they're, you know, whether that's true over the
long term or not doesn't really matter.
What matters now is that they don't present in a way that
would enable somebody to say, see, they're a monopoly.
They're becoming a monopoly. You know, they have to, they

(12:09):
have to pass regulatory hurdles still.
So they'll say whatever they need to say about Netflix and
HBO Max now. Do I think HBO Max and Netflix
will merge into like Netflix Max?
No, because I think everyone recognizes the value of the
letters HBO. But do I think they will be
completely bundled up together and tied together in so many

(12:31):
other ways? Absolutely.
Do I think it'll be like my Disney Plus subscription where I
could also just get go to a Hulutab within my Disney Plus?
Yeah, I think it'll be exactly like that.
And so that begs the question ofif there is some sort of a
clause where WWE has like wrestling exclusivity on
Netflix, does that kind of go does that, is that still active

(12:56):
if we're looking at it as a bundled property and not one in
the same property? So I know that's sort of a long
way to to attempt to answer yourquestion, but I think it's even
more convoluted and confusing now that we have wrestling the
same wrestling promotions on cable and on streaming.
And those two companies will be different companies presumably
soon in the case of AEW. So it's just even more

(13:20):
complicated than it used to be, but I know it's just as
competitive as it used. Right.
And I remember also, it kind of bit TNN in the butt because
right after WWE went to TNN, they weren't getting the viewers
that they thought they were going to be able to get because
not every home had TNN. So therefore USA came back and

(13:42):
said, OK, we'll give you this, this, you know, you got the
households if you come back to us and WWE wound up leaving TNN
and went back to the USA Networkbecause something like that
happened. If that's the case, if it
happens with AW. Yeah, I mean, distribution is
the name of the game. It's been that way literally
since the old, old, old territorial cable days of

(14:05):
wrestling that it's why Fox did that Smackdown DI.
So excuse me, it's why WWE did that Smackdown deal with Fox,
the broadcast network years ago,because that was the the
distribution is so much larger than even USA Network, which is
still a reasonably large cable channel at the time.
And now it's why WWE did the distribution deal with Netflix,

(14:26):
because you ain't getting biggerthan Netflix.
So, yeah, numbers, you know, potential eyeballs matter to the
wrestling promoters for sure. But it also just happened, you
know, it stands to reason that the larger platforms, Netflix or
Fox versus USA Network, they also have a hell of a lot more
money to pay WWE, you know, to be there.

(14:50):
So it's a, it's a mutually beneficial situation that you
know, both it, it, it works out for both of them to not be on,
you know, sort of a small scale network when, when the big boys
come calling with their big checks.
We're talking to Tony Maglio, the TV editor of The Hollywood
Reporter here on Devon and the Duke Mags.

(15:12):
I, I'm going to complicate this even more because the President
of United States just so happensto be AWWE Hall of Famer and his
son-in-law allegedly has ties with Paramount and Paramount put
in that big offer and what have you now.
Now you talked about whatever deal is going to happen, it has

(15:35):
to pass regulation. So that means the government has
to sign off on the deal ultimately.
How does that factor in from which, from your perspective as
somebody who's reporting on thisstuff?
Yeah, so you're referring to Jared Kushner.
He is part of the money backing Paramount's bid, though all of

(15:55):
the money is personally guaranteed by the Ellison
family. Larry Ellison, the founder of of
Oracle, David Ellison is the sonwho recently essentially bought
Paramount and merged it with hisSky Dance.
Yeah, it's very. It's very interesting, dude,
because like Trump, he doesn't have as much power in this

(16:17):
situation as he says he does, aspeople think he does, as, you
know, the, you know, as his publicists, basically his White
House press secretary say he does.
You know, it's the Department ofJustice that will decide these
regulatory things. There is no FCC like the FCC
Chairman Carr, he's been pretty loud about certain certain

(16:39):
things lately. And he definitely, you know,
reports to Trump and works for works for Trump, was appointed
by Trump, all that stuff with noreal broadcast implications.
Netflix and Warner Brothers discovery that is FCC doesn't
really come into play. It's really just the Department
of Justice. So, yeah, does Trump have have
he has influence is what he has.Does he have an actual say?

(16:59):
No, but he has he still has influence.
We'd be crazy to pretend that hedid not doesn't have influence.
And with Jared involved in Paramount and with CBS, a
broadcast channel being involvedwith Paramount, that's when the
government gets even more oversight.
Trump specifically gets a littlebit more influence in that
potential deal. But to to act like he doesn't

(17:22):
matter would be would be a lie. Like, like him or not, like the
way he conducts business or not,he does matter here.
It's why Netflix is Ted Sarandos, their Co CEO, why he
had a meeting with Trump, you know, basically, I guess to tell
him about the bid that is they're they're doing for Warner
Brothers and and sort of to get his weird godfathery blessing

(17:43):
maybe about that bid. So, so Trump does factor in
here. He factors into different
degrees depending on who ends upkind of entering regulatory with
this with this deal. But yeah, he he matters.
The the Hall of Famer thing is hilarious.
And I didn't even think of it until you just said that.

(18:05):
So, yeah, listen, I know he did some matches.
I know he kept his hair and Vince didn't, but I didn't think
of it from that angle. And now I'm going to sit back
and think of it for a little bit.
But yeah, the, to answer your question a very short way, I
would say that, yeah, these Netflix or Paramount, they need
the government. They need the government's
approval. And within that government is
Jared Kushner, and within and that government is Donald Trump.

(18:28):
Well, I mean, Devon, you know, everything is pro wrestling.
So it's not just that Trump performed for the WWE.
He's a long term investor that goes way, way back to the 80s.
He's very close friends with theMcmahons.
Linda McMahon is in the administration.
Triple H is a special advisor who's part of some kind of
sports and fitness committee that that's Trump had appointed

(18:49):
him to about about 60 days ago, roughly.
So WWE is embedded in the administration.
And for me personally, and you fellas can help me out with
this, we'll start with you, Devon.
I truly feel like WWE is going to influence how this shakes
out. But no matter what, whoever is a

(19:10):
competitor to them, they're toast.
They're not going to have a chance on on any whatever new
and emerging company comes out of this sale, whether it goes to
Paramount or it goes to Netflix.I think you hit the nail right
on the button. Trump has a lot of influence
with WWE. He's with the Mcmahons, with
Linda being in his administration, Triple H.

(19:33):
So you have a lot of that going on.
And like you said, it's almost like they can't do anything
about it in the sense if Trump gets involved like that, we
can't say that Trump won't have an influence because he will.
But at the same token, how much of an influence will he have?
And that's, I think that's the key question right there.

(19:54):
How much influence would he have?
And again, just like the whole deal with ECW, you know, we
thought we were locked in now. Bubba and I were leaving the
company, going to the WWE at thetime when all of this stuff went
down. We happen to be on the 1st.
Show that TNN broadcast for ECW,but then right after that we

(20:17):
kind of left and went to the WW ES, excuse me?
So all that stuff that was goingon again, they lost their TV
deal because of it. And then it was like ECW had no
home to go to, which I couldn't blame Paul Heyman for being
upset because he was promised one thing and then it was ripped
right from underneath him. So will that be the same for

(20:41):
AEW? Yeah, I mean, you know, it it
it's I, I hope I didn't downplayand I don't think I did, but I
hope I didn't downplay what I, you know, Trump say in the
matter. Because, you know, to back up
even a little bit further is thereason why Sarandos felt like he
needed to kiss the ring, so to speak, is because it's been so

(21:02):
widely known that Trump and the Ellisons are tight, right?
So like you basically have it's crazy to think that, you know,
it's almost crazy to think that Paramount doesn't have the
advantage because, you know, Trump just put through their
deal with Skydance, you know, orat least he didn't get in the
way. You know, he he he has spoken

(21:23):
publicly and giving, you know, giving his blessing, blessings
publicly to the Ellisons. Like we know there is that
relationship there. He also has it with the Mcmahons
as as you indicated, like so Sarandos, my assumption, not
that I've spoken to him, but it it certainly stands to reason
that he saw two parties involvedtrying to get Warner Brothers.

(21:45):
He saw a Paramount that already had a bid out there publicly and
he wanted Warner Brothers. In my my opinion, I think he
wants Warner Brothers more to block Paramount from getting
Warner Brothers and or NBC Universal to get Warner Brothers
because Netflix is so far ahead of the game.
The only way anyone theoretically catches up is by

(22:08):
merging with like their biggest rival.
You know, like an NBCU Paramountmerger, Paramount, Warner
Brothers Discovery merger, something like that.
So the Ellison aspect, nobody really thought that Sarandos
would have the edge over the Ellisons until Sarandos did the
Super smartest thing, right? You just go to Donald Trump,
you, I assume, kiss his ass and suddenly you've got a friend at

(22:33):
the highest level of the government.
It's, it's frankly what I would do if I was trying to to, you
know, merge 2 entities that, youknow, maybe wouldn't immediately
pass the, the merger test. So again, like, can Trump
literally just veto it? No, but everybody knows how this
guy operates. Everybody knows how the
government beneath him operates.It's out of fear.

(22:54):
It's out of loyalty. And so I think that's the only
way Netflix sort of pushes Paramount away is by doing
exactly what Ted did. I'm telling you, everything is
pro wrestling, folks. Everything is pro wrestling.
Listen, Mags, we, we definitely want to have you back in the
future as this story continues to emerge because you're, you're

(23:15):
at the forefront there, man. You're keeping your finger on
the pulse. But why don't you everybody know
the best way they can keep up with you and on social media,
the website, the whole 9 yards? And what could they expect when
they check your stuff out? Oh my God, they're gonna.
They should expect that. I haven't slept since Netflix,
Warner Brothers was was announced, and it doesn't seem

(23:35):
like sleeping is is in the cardsanytime soon 'cause this thing
has so many moving parts, man. We could talk for literal hours.
But yeah, they could check me out.
The Hollywood reporterthr.com, Tony Maglio, I'm the TV editor
on Twitter. By all means, wrestling fans, we
could argue about wrestling and anything that I said here that,
you know, possibly could be wrong, you could call me out on

(23:57):
that on Twitter at Tony Maglio. And yeah, man, I'm always
available for you guys. I'm a big fan of you guys as
well, so thank you. Thank you.
Thank you, Mag as always, brother, we appreciate you guys.
Just one more question, even with the money that Tony Khan
and his family has, there can't be any influence by him and his
family that can persuade this togo in the direction for AEW.

(24:21):
Yeah, it's a great question, Devon.
I'm glad you asked. I I haven't given it all that
much thought. Yeah, the cons are billionaires,
You know, they as we know, they owned AW dad owns the
Jacksonville Jaguars. They're they're very successful
and they've got a lot of money. But I think I would say say that
their influence is, you know, relatively minor here only
because, you know, I thought with Tony's money we would have

(24:47):
a very serious WWE competitor. And I don't want to belittle
them. I went to a show and really
enjoyed it. They've done a wonderful job.
They have great talent. A lot of it obviously has come
from WWE, but I think, you know,as rich as Tony is, he needs the
TV deal for the league. He doesn't need it for his bank

(25:10):
account, he doesn't need it for his yacht.
He needs it for the league. So yeah, money buys influence
and I'm sure at Khan when David Zaslow was on his yacht and the
Khan Film Festival, this is and the Khan family are on their
yacht. Yes, there is.
There is definite like relationship building and
favoritism that money can buy. Not that, not that WWE does not

(25:32):
have money. They've got lots of billions
now. But I do think, you know, it's
one of those weird frustrating things where the product has to
lead the way. AEW has to be great to really be
AWWE competitor. And I think it doesn't really
matter who the owner of AEW is. I think the quality has there.
You know, it's a Devon. I would kind of put it to like

(25:55):
the XFL or the USFL, Like they had money and they even had
deals. They didn't have the same timing
as the NFL. But the problem was always they
didn't have NFL players. They would get a few here and
there, you know, sometimes retired from the NFL or cut from
the NFL, You know, very much like our situation with WWE and

(26:17):
AW, they're all great football players, man.
They're much better than any college football player.
You know, they were tremendous, but the product wasn't there.
It wasn't on par with NFL. And I think, you know, that's
where AEW ultimately has to get and it has to do that two ways.
It has to do that through the talent, which again, great
talent, but they have to get ATVdeal on par with WWE or you'll

(26:39):
never be seen as a true WWE competitor.
And I don't know if that if that'll ever happen.
And I don't know that money can buy that.
Yeah, I agree with you on that. I mean, AW, they've got a lot to
be concerned about. Indeed, indeed, Tony Maglio.
We appreciate you, brother. Yeah, I appreciate you guys have
a, if I don't talk to you have awonderful holidays.

(27:00):
You too. Guys, same to you all.
Right, dude. Thanks again, Devon.
Great to meet you here. Thank you.
Same here. Yeah, take care, guys.
You know what it's, it's interesting, Devon.
I mean, you, you got a guy like Tony Maglio who covers this for
a living. So this is all he does.
He, he focuses on television in Hollywood in a major acquisition
like this, we're talking between50 and hundreds of billions of

(27:24):
dollars, billions with AB. This is the biggest story in, in
TV history as far as we know, you know what I mean?
And, and, and movie history, because Paramount, you know,
they're in the movies and, and, and WBD, they're in the movies.
So this is going to affect, I think when you look at it, it's
roughly 40, possibly 50% of all available television viewing.

(27:51):
And I'm talking about streaming apps and stuff like that, folks,
all the different channels and things like that.
When you add it all up, this is going to affect 50% of the
marketplace. That's crazy, you know?
That's that's a huge number. Yeah, one company could, I mean,
determine everything, you know. I mean, I, I would hope that,

(28:12):
you know, Tony could find another network that would allow
his organization to be on there and to be able to produce what
he's been producing now, which all goes back to what we said
before. He needs help in order to get
the houses up, to help merchandise sales go up to be an

(28:33):
even bigger competitor to WWE. And again, the die hard AEW fans
that don't like when we talk about stuff like this because
they feel like we're burying AEW, we're not burying them.
These are all facts. You've had someone who knows the
game and knows how this works and knows all the important

(28:54):
players. That's playing a big part in
this, including the president ofthe United States, who could
have a huge influence in this. You know, we're hoping that they
can actually find a network. If this doesn't work out, you
have to have a Plan B. You have a, you know what Bubba

(29:14):
and I, and Bubba taught me this.He's like, you know, because
Bubba was taught by Paul Heyman and Vince McMahon.
He said, Devon, if there's something given to us and we
don't like it, don't just say I don't want to do it.
Have a backup plan. Have, you know, have an ABC
backup plan. So that way if they stay still,

(29:35):
say no, at least you gave all ofthese backups and it didn't
work. Eventually one will.
And that was always the case with the Dudleys and how we did
business. And that's exactly what I'm
going to say with AW, don't try to put everything in one basket
with this because if it goes South, then you're screwed.

(29:56):
It's almost like you have to have a plan, B&C if this doesn't
work out. And I'm sure that if I'm saying
this, somebody in their organization is saying this, but
they have to have one. Because if not, the unfortunate
part is we might not see AEW on TV if this happens.
And if that's the case, you and I both know without ATV deal you

(30:19):
don't have a company. Nope, you don't.
You don't. And I'm glad you brought up the
the ECW history because that that is the perfect lens to to
view this whole situation by. And, and I'll take it a step
further. It has always been speculated
that WWE has some type of clausein their television contracts,
at least in the United States, that stipulate whatever TV

(30:44):
channel they're on. That Channel cannot, yeah, they
can't air competitors on the channel throughout the duration
of WW ES time at on that Channel, right.
It's no, it's a no compete cause.
Yeah, basically, that's a great point.
It's a no compete. So.
So MLW was suing them for that and WWE ended up settling with

(31:06):
them a couple of years ago because they did not want that
to go to court, you know, because WWE would have been
accused of of being a monopoly if they allowed that to go to
court. They would have gotten crushed
if that would have been put on the record in that manner.
You know what I mean? So, so I say that to say, you
bringing up the ECW thing is perfect because that is a prime

(31:30):
example, just like the MLW thingthat this clause probably
exists. You know, I would think so.
I mean, look, it's no different Duke than the talent and their
contracts. There is a no compete course.
You have 90 days or 120 days. However many days it's in your
contract where you can't go and be with another competitor until

(31:53):
that's over. So it's almost, it's almost like
draining the stock out of you from being on WWTV.
And by the time you go to another organization, now you
have to start over again. People will remember you, but
now you have to restart everything all over again with
that new company. And it's it's almost like it's
very similar to what we're talking about, you know, So

(32:16):
again, it's hard for me to thinkthat WWE did not have that no
compete course when they went with Netflix.
Not saying that they actually thought that somebody like AEW
or whatever other organization would be going toe to toe with
them. But I just can't see WWE letting
that happen. They're too smart.

(32:38):
They've been around too long andthey have too many important
people with great minds to not take a chance on that.
You're absolutely right. You're absolutely right.
And folks, we're going to continue to cover this and you
know, we have some television executives that we have access
to. I think that these folks are
waiting for the deal to get a little further down the street

(33:00):
before they emerge and start, you know, digging into it.
But you have my word out there, listeners here on D Monitor,
Duke, we will get some of these television executives to speak
about from their perspective what they see.
Because you're hearing it from aHall of Fame wrestler who's been
through this. You're hearing it from one of
the top reporters and editors, Imean, The Hollywood Reporter.

(33:22):
You can't get bigger than that. Now let's get an executive to
talk about it as well from a television executives
perspective. Oh my Devon, what the hell is
going on? Well, we just can't be pro
wrestling and not talk about theinsurance and outs.
We can talk about the matches, we can talk about the talent,

(33:44):
but we also have to be able to be, you know, knowledgeable on
what's going on behind the scenes, if these are big deals
that are being made and could affect the future of pro
wrestling. Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaking of which, Speaking of big deals, we've we've alluded
to it folks. So, so let's just get right into
it as we, this episode here is episode 51 of the Devon and the

(34:09):
Duke podcast. So this is the, the launch of
our season 2. And boy, do we have a hell of a
season 1. Devon.
We, we always talk, you can say that again, right?
Yeah, we, we always talk about championships, right?
But you know, there's gold that you win in the ring and then

(34:29):
there's gold that you can win inthe digital space.
So officially the Duke loves wrestling channel in all the
shows that are within the feed. So you know that the show that I
I I did the limited series show I did with with big Beatle
Lagrosso, the friend of ours podcast.
Obviously the main show Duke loves wrestling, which will be

(34:50):
celebrating 10 years this upcoming April, right around
WrestleMania time. And of course, the force here,
the Devon in the Duke podcast, we just won not one, not 2, but
3/20/25 Spotify Podcast Awards. We won marathon show, which has

(35:15):
to do with the amount of time that listeners listen to each of
our episodes compared to every other podcast in the world
that's ever listened to on Spotify over the past year.
We won the talked about show. So our episodes are being
discussed more than the majorityof podcasts in the world that

(35:37):
have aired on Spotify over the past year, and we won most
shared show. So most importantly, you fans
out there continue to share our episodes as you're talking about
it and listening to it. So overall, we were listened to,
talked about and shared more than 75% of all podcasts in the

(36:02):
world on Spotify. But let's take it a step
further. In the world, on every platform,
we are in the top 5% of all listened to podcasts in the
world, which is crazy because weare a independent, black-owned
wrestling media show. So Diva on Dudley, when, when,

(36:25):
when people talk about your Hallof Fame legacy, they, they talk
about tables, ladders and chairsand, and, and all that good
stuff there, right? But this is that, that's all
about your body. When we talk about those things,
the sacrifices that you, that you've given for over 30 years,
putting your body on the line, right?
Well, now folks, got to start talking about your brain in your

(36:47):
communication skills and your ability to connect with people
on a micro level. Brother, you're not just a Hall
of Famer in the ring, you're nowa certified Hall of Famer in the
podcasting space. How does it feel to be
recognized as Devon Dudley the Communicator?

(37:08):
I feel great because you people have to understand that, you
know, I didn't do a lot of talking when I did wrestle.
Bubba did a lot of the talking. My theory was because my my
character came from Mr. T from Rocky 3 and and Rocky 3.
Mr. T didn't do much talking. He basically went in the ring

(37:31):
and destroyed people. That was pretty much how he got
his point across, by putting fear in people, and I wanted to
base my character off of that. But what I didn't put in
perspective is that in pro wrestling you have to talk, and
it kind of hurt me a little bit because people didn't know if I
could. So when I did certain promos

(37:53):
like I did with Jeff Hardy, or when I did certain promos like
the first promo I did back in 2000, we did WrestleMania, the
first WrestleMania, we did the ladder match, the Triangle
ladder match. You know, I opened up with that
promo and people were like, wellman, Yvonne can talk, we need to

(38:14):
hear more. And I was like, now you don't
need to hear more. You need to just wait and watch
me in the ring. And again, it kind of backfired
on me in a sense because people didn't think I could.
But when I did talk, it was withpassion and conviction.
Excuse me? And it would get over so people
would say, oh, I want to hear Devon talk even more, which

(38:35):
maybe it wasn't a bad idea because now that I am talking
and showing that I do know what the hell I'm talking about in
some aspects, you know, now it'sgetting over to the point where
people are like, yes, I want to hear more, which is great.
Which is actually coming across on the YouTube channel, you
know, Oh, we love the way you tell stories.

(38:55):
We love the way how you, you know, intervene with guests that
you have on there. You know, it's a natural flow.
It's this and it's that. Well, good.
Maybe I did do something right, setting up for the future.
You sure did you you. You've done plenty of things
right? Because despite you not talking
as much, you still managed to bein five Hall of Fame's.
So you know what I mean. My goodness, How do you how do

(39:18):
you top that? You know, but to do it in this
space, it's and, and correct me if I'm wrong, remind folks you
went to school for communications, right?
Communications and broadcasting,yes.
I didn't finish it because I thought that it was going to
hurt me in terms of going into wrestling.

(39:39):
When I passed up the scholarshipto play football, I did it
because I was so intrigued on getting into pro wrestling that
I thought that if I finished or went to college and did it, that
it would hurt my chances on making it.
And I was just so ready to go and to be able to learn how to

(39:59):
be a pro wrestler and then to make it to the WWE.
I just decided not to finish anything and it was wrong of me
to do that. I would never want to tell the
youth not to go to college, not to get their degree and this and
that. You know, the fortunate part for
me with that is, is that I was lucky and that I got blessed in

(40:21):
making it to ECW there from ECW to WWE and then of course from
WWE to TNA and then back to WWE.And of course in between that
going to Japan and becoming verysuccessful with Bubba Ray Dudley
or Bully Ray or Uncle Uncle Bully, whatever he calls himself

(40:42):
like to be called. But you know, it was one of
those things that, you know, I'm, I'm just, I'm just happy
and proud that I was. I've been able to be as
successful as I have been, especially with the YouTube
channel. I did not see that coming at
all. And you know, me, Duke, I am a
biblical man. I base everything on God.

(41:04):
And I like to say, you know, it was due to the grace of God that
I've been able to do this and doit well.
And, you know, there's a lot of things that I wanted to talk
about over the years that I never thought people would want
to listen and take into consideration what I had to say.

(41:25):
I didn't have to practice. There were times where at my
first run with WWE from 1999 to 2005, I would get phone calls
from the office and they would say, hey Devon, we have a radio
station that we would like for you to to go on to promote the

(41:45):
up and coming live event or the,you know, we're on Smackdown
because we're going to be in that town.
Never once did I decline. The more practice I got, the
better I became. So I was very happy that I did
that. It helped me tremendously to be
able to be comfortable talking and to be able to express my

(42:09):
opinion and how I felt about certain things.
Well, I'm telling you, brother, you, you have nailed it.
And now that we've we've made this history, it's not just
about us. We have essentially cracked the
ceiling for other independent black creators out there.

(42:29):
And we've shown them that you don't need a big network in
order to succeed. You can actually build something
from the ground up and be recognized officially for it,
You know, So you know, you fans out there, you're not just
listening to the show. You have chosen us over the

(42:51):
massive corporate shows. And I'm not just talking about
pro wrestling podcast because that's the thing.
We're being compared to every single podcast that exists
that's been played over the pastyear.
That's the thing. So, so you listeners out there
actively investing in our independent voices and you're
voting with your ears, You're supporting our platform that

(43:15):
celebrates wrestling and provides unique perspective on
life. So seriously, thank you to
everyone out there who listens, who shares, who discusses what,
what we talk about on the shows.Thank you for making us not just
a podcast, but one of the most impactful podcasts in the entire
world. You know, it's it's crazy.

(43:38):
And the world is now officially taking notice of the talent
outside the ring of Devon Dudley.
You know, you know, now that this man has a has a wealth of
wisdom. He's a family man.
He's a man that is a thinker. So he's not just brown.
He's not just out there and he could put people through tables

(43:59):
and he has all the the cuts on his head and all that stuff.
That's all cool, and that's madehim a fantastic life, supported
his family and all that good stuff.
And if that's the only thing D Von Dudley has ever contributed
to the world outside of being a great pillar of society, that
would be wonderful. But the fact remains now with
these three awards, D Von Dudleyofficially goes down in history,

(44:23):
is one of the the absolute best podcasters on the planet.
And no one can take that away from you.
So, you know, on a personal level, brother, I, I can't tell
you how proud I am to be able todo this with you and accomplish
this because it is so different.Brother, I've been doing this
for 10 years. I didn't win anything.

(44:44):
It is so difficult to be recognized.
We keep going viral. We keep getting, you know,
people talking about it and, andactually enjoying our last
episode. I, I can't tell you how many
comments I'm getting, what people say, man, that was your
best episode. That was amazing.
You guys have just great energy.You guys clearly really respect

(45:05):
and appreciate each other. Like that was a real good
listen. It's like our best episodes are
in front of us, which is the crazy part We have.
We're just getting started, you know what I mean?
But to to be able to take somebody who's known for being
this rough and tough, kick ass dude and to be able to show the
world, no, this man also has a brain.

(45:25):
He has something to say and it'sworth listening to.
That's the part that I love the most, bro, I love that.
Yeah, I mean, like I said, I'm, I'm very happy and very
grateful, you know, to the fans that listen to the show and that
put us in the predicament where we are right now.
You know, we're the other two black guys, you know?

(45:48):
The black guys with the podcast,now you got to call us.
The award-winning black guys with the podcast.
And for those of you that have heard as things that we've done
the show, you'll know what that means.
But, you know, I'm just ecstaticabout it and very, very happy.
I didn't know what my life was going to be like after being in

(46:11):
the ring. One of the reasons why I was a
little nervous, you know, after the stroke and after the back
surgery, because it's like I dedicated my life to this.
What am I going to do after this?
Sure, work behind the scenes, but I didn't want to have to
keep working for organizations behind the scenes.
I want to be able to be my own boss, and I think I earned the

(46:32):
right to want that. Not have to depend on anybody or
take orders from anybody. Not that I don't, you know, care
to listen to people who I work for, but I just wanted to be my
own and there's nothing wrong with that.
And I'm very happy. Listen, you're going to have
people out there that's not going to like what you say, like
what you do, and that's fine. But respect us because we're on

(46:56):
that level now. And that's only thing that I
ever asked for for the listeners.
Damn right, damn right. And and again, you know, the
podcasting space is so over saturated, it's very difficult
to hear something new or unique.It's not an easy space for black
folk to exist. And I'm going to tell you right
now, folks, no one is giving us anything.

(47:18):
There are opportunities that we have earned a long time ago that
we got to go get ourselves because no one's going to give
it to us. And again, all these big
corporate podcasts, and you knowwho they are.
And I'm not just talking pro wrestling, I'm talking all
sports, true crime, all of that straight up news, all of these

(47:40):
corporate podcasts owned by these big companies.
It is incredible how much we've been kicking their ass.
And I'm going to say it like that.
I'm going to toot that horn and I'm not going to stop Tooting
that horn because it's importantfor the world to know that the
support that our audience has given us is paying off.
So please keep it coming becauseDevon and I, we got so many

(48:04):
great things ahead of us that we're going to be sharing with
you folks, you know, more great guests like Tony Maglio and what
have you. Different perspectives like with
this disguise the limit, but we don't get here without your
support. And, and truly folks, we really,
really thank you. Thank you so much.
It's it's just incredible. It's incredible.

(48:25):
Absolutely. You know, so real quick, we we
we got Cena's last match that's happening this weekend.
So, you know, on our next episode, we'll do the review on
that. I'm going to ask you a question
from a different perspective because I know we covered a lot
of Cena last last episode, but let me ask you this.
You've made it clear that you'veprobably wrestled your last
match. Unless WWE is going to back up a

(48:47):
Brinks truck and and and jump and drop a lot of money on you
or what have you. But you probably wrestled your
last match. When you think about how that
felt, to know that you've closedthe chapter, you're you're
you're somebody who because it just happened, you're someone
who has a unique perspective that you kind of know what Cena

(49:09):
might be feeling right now. Do you have any advice for John
as as he's heading into this match on Saturday?
I. Mean I don't have to tell him,
but you know, soak it up, enjoy it, you know, after Bound for
Glory, right before I went back through the tunnel after the
match, me and Bubba stood right there by the goal position

(49:30):
outside of the curtain and was really taking in the fans
cheering and saying thank you, Dudley's and all of that.
And I remember just looking around, seeing the sea of people
clapping, cheering, you know, Devon Bubba, thank you, thank
you. You know, and it was
overwhelming, you know, to the point where I did break down a

(49:54):
little bit and shed a tear because I knew that being on
that level again, that was it. It was over.
And that I probably would not behearing that again from the fans
in that perspective, of course, of being in the ring.
I mean, hell, not that I am going, but I can go to Hollywood

(50:18):
and get the same thing on the red carpet or what have you.
Not saying that I want to or would, but it was not the same
as being in the ring, walking back and having the people
really appreciate the things that you've done in there.
It's just a totally different feeling.
And I'm sure John will experience that right before he

(50:41):
goes through that curtain to go back into the gorilla position
to say it's it's over. You know, he had a tremendous
career he done he's done so much.
He's given back to the wrestlingcommunity.
He's done so much with the make a wish.
He's just genuinely a good man and it shows and how he

(51:04):
represents himself. So all of his success, whether
it was being the the face of thecompany, even when people even
when people were bullying him, saying John Cena sucks, he took
all of that in and never once let that hurt how he felt about
the business, the wrestling community.

(51:25):
He just went out there and did John and you know, continue to
do that. Of course, again, I'll have to
tell you that I'm sure John already knows this.
But again, just take that moment.
You deserve it to soak it all in.
I don't care if he gets right right before he gets to the
curtain and he's out there for 10 minutes before he walks back

(51:45):
to the gorilla. Take your time.
Enjoy it man, because because it's the best feeling in the
world. No, no one out there who decides
to hate on the Dudley Boys, Devon or Bubba and say we suck,
we don't deserve it or we're glad you're retiring.
There's no individual out there that can take that away from me

(52:06):
and Bubba. The things that we've done, how
we have represented ourselves and what we've done has been
great. But at the same token, because
the fans appreciated it, it's overwhelming.
We've had more people say good things about us than the
so-called people that say bad things.

(52:28):
You know, did it bother me when they, you know, I was seeing
some reports leading up to Boundfor Glory.
No one wants to see this match. They're old.
We're not back in the 90s again,you know, and those are the fans
that basically, you know, that weren't there during that time,
that didn't know how special that match was.

(52:48):
And that's fine. And I'm going to get a little
bit off the subject here. So if I lose train of thought,
bring me back, Duke. But it's almost like, you know,
I always have the argument and Iput on my Instagram, you know,
the debate on who's the GOAT between Michael Jordan and
LeBron James. I'm a huge Michael Jordan fan.
Was IA Michael Jordan fan before?

(53:09):
No, I hated Michael because I was a New York Knicks fan and he
was the only one that stopped the Knicks from going on to the
NBA Finals so many years in a row.
So when he went to go play baseball, I was happy.
And the one time he goes and plays baseball and the Knicks
have a chance to go on to the Finals and win against the

(53:30):
Houston Rockets, we choked. And when he came back, I was
like, oh, that's it for the Knicks.
They're not going to make it that that we're done.
And it's the truth. And that's exactly, you know,
what happened. But there's no fan out there
that can tell me, regardless of what bad things you might say
about us or me, you know, shut up.

(53:50):
We don't need to hear anything from you, Yvonne.
That's fine. You don't want to hear it.
But there's other people that do.
And thank you for those that do.I really appreciate it from the
bottom of my heart. I can't begin to tell you
enough. I appreciate people say, oh, you
are my childhood. Like I said on my documentary on
the Devon Dudley YouTube channel, you are my childhood.

(54:11):
You, the fans were my childhood.Remember, I was very young when
I entered this business. I was 18 years old and I made it
to ECW when I was 2425. So you are my childhood, not as
an adolescent, not as a teenager, but as a young adult
growing up through the business and really taking in all the
love that was given to us through the 90s, through the

(54:33):
Millennium, through the later years of the Millennium, going
into, I should say, from 2012 to2025.
You guys were the reason why theDudley boys were so successful.
And I thank you. And for those that like to hide
behind their computers and say shit that just wasn't good, you

(54:53):
know, you don't determine our faith, God does.
Regards to how much you might yell and scream in that computer
with those keys, you don't determine our faith, God does.
And so, so happy to say that thefans helped with that.
And I say thank you. Put put this in perspective for
a moment here and we'll close onthis In 2025, Devon Dudley got

(55:18):
himself into some of the best shape of his life.
Lost a whole bunch of weight. You were able to shine a light
on DDP Yoga and you know, not only Diamond Dallas Page, but
also Bobby Fish and, and and howmuch of A great contributor he
is to to health and prosperity. You were able to relaunch a
YouTube channel that is very successful.

(55:40):
You were able to get back in thering with Bubba and you even
were able to to get Spike involved and what have you.
So the Dudley boys and the Dudley family were able to ride
one last time, sold out a historic pay-per-view and really
were were the draw of of of thatwhole evening.
And now you are a three time award-winning podcaster.

(56:04):
No matter what happened in 2025,Devon Dudley, you have had one
of the greatest years of your life.
Yes, I have. Again, I it's all through God,
man. I mean, again, I can't stress
that enough. You know, when you think there's
nothing at the end of the tunnel, there's no light.
That light, that little glimpse of hope shines bright.

(56:26):
And again, I can't be more happier and proud of what has
been accomplished in 2025. I'm I'm just overwhelmed by it.
It's incredible, and that's a reminder that God's always with
you, you know? Always my brother, always.
You know, It reminds me. It reminds me of that picture I
used to see growing up. I don't see it as much anymore

(56:49):
where the guy is walking throughthe sand and there's only one
set of footprints and he says, you know, God, I've done
everything there is to do. I've served you, I've listened,
I've done everything. You said you would never leave
me. You said you would always be
behind me and carry me through the trials and tribulations.
But what I've been going through, when I look back, I

(57:10):
only see one set of footprints in the sand.
I don't understand when you saidyou would never leave me.
Why is it that there's only one set of footprints?
God replied. Because those footprints aren't
yours. Those footprints were mine
carrying you through all of this.

(57:30):
And that's the way I feel on that.
So just when you think he's not there, oh, he's there, but you
just have to open up your ears, close your mouth and pay
attention because he would say, oh, I don't understand.
You know, I'm asked, I've asked God for signs and this and that,
and he's giving you signs. It may not be the signs that you
want, but he's giving you clarity on what you should do.

(57:51):
And a lot of times we just don'tlisten to those signs because
it's not something that we want to hear.
It's not something that we feel that, you know, is the answer to
anything that is going on in ourlives.
But again, if you listen and understand, you will know.
Well said, Well said. Well, what's the best way

(58:12):
everyone can keep up with you? Especially the YouTube channel
and all that good stuff there, big man.
Yes, well, you know the YouTube channel, of course Devon W
YouTube and of course Testify Devon Twitter as well.
Testify Devon. I'm also at DDA Devon W Academy.
So if you ever want to take thatnext step into going into pro

(58:34):
wrestling and you want to be taught the right way as opposed
to some guy opening up a wrestling school that's never
been anywhere, gets a warehouse and decides he's going to tell
you what to do, chances are you're not.
If he didn't get anywhere, neither will you.
Come on down to the D Von W Academy.
We will make sure that you have the necessary tools to get to
where you need to be and also also you can leave messages on

(59:00):
the Instagram on Devon W Academyor even Testify Devon.
I answer as much as I possibly can.
Don't think I don't because I do.
I may not get to you, but eventually I will be able to get
to you and we'll go from there. That's right, that's right.
And as always, folks, Duke loveswrestling on Facebook on
xdukeloveswrestling@gmail.com. Let me know what you think of

(59:22):
the show. Keep sharing, keep keep letting
the whole world know what you think of the show because it's
working. People are listening.
We're getting recognized for it and and those awards are just
Spotify. I'm pretty sure we got more
coming. You know, Apple is, is where the
majority of you, you fans aroundthe world are listening.
So you know, we, we, we might betalking about this again from a

(59:44):
different perspective real soon.Don't worry.
Lastly, just an update on programming.
Yes, International Duke Day is upon us.
So in fact, as you listen to this, folks, you'll be hearing
this. On my birthday, I will be doing
a A Duke loves wrestling. International Duke Day episode
like I've done every other year.But give me give me a give me a

(01:00:06):
couple days. I'll I'll put that out in the
middle of next week. I want to get through the
weekend and and enjoy and all that good stuff and and since
I'm recording with Devon and we had such great news, this is I
figured this will will hold you over until I do that episode
there. But.
Absolutely. You know, as always.
Absolutely. What's that?
You know, and again, I'm very grateful for the awards that we

(01:00:29):
won. Hey, listen, I'm looking for
awards and more to come, not only towards even towards the
end of 2025, but going into 2026should be an even bigger year
for Duke and Vivonne podcast. So I'm really looking forward to
it. And again, thank you to the fans
for, you know, helping us achieve those awards and really,

(01:00:51):
really giving us the blessing that you have given us.
We could not have done it without you.
And we're very grateful and honored that you would present
yourself of listening to the show, sharing it, and just
loving it in general. Testify.
My brother. Let your spirit die in this

(01:01:35):
fashion, you'll touch the sky strictly for the culture and so
fine dressed to impress and showyour shine strictly for the
culture every day slipping sky in your unique way.

(01:02:05):
Visit www.strictlyfortheculture.ca.
Backstage whispers and the crowds roar from matching giants
to legends of your Devon's wisdom in Duke's King view.

(01:02:28):
Every episode feels like it's brand new.

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WBD Bidding War with Tony Maglio: Devon & The Duke Episode 51

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