#135. Latest chair discussion.

In this podcast, I talk about the last chair I made, and what I tried to accomplish with it.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, everyone, Welcome back for an other podcasts. In today's podcast,
I'm going to be talking about this chair that I made.
So this could possibly be described as a double chair
or a ladder back chair, or it has only got
one back rest in it, and I do believe typically

(00:21):
ladder back chairs have got you know, several pieces of
back rest and hence that's why they get the ladder
ladder back chair name from. One of the things with
this chair that I wanted and I kind of did
accomplish in a way, was that I wanted it to
be easy to make and for people of all skill

(00:45):
levels to be able to make it and it not
being too difficult, which I think I did kind of,
you know, succeed with. So if you're a little bit
anxious about me in the chair, and I have actually
spoke to a couple of people that feel the are
a little bit anxious, I think with this you kind

(01:09):
of you don't have to be, because I think it
can be very forgiven. And the steps that I used
to make the chair I thought were you know, I
thought that were pretty easy. What I will say is
that the weave and on the top. So just for

(01:31):
those of you that I'm watching on YouTube the Weaven
on the Top. I personally think it looks really really
cool and it's very comfortable. This is a very comfortable
seat to sit in, at least for your bum, although
it does have some problems with the backrest, which I
will get into. I did use kill and dride timber

(01:55):
with this, and the reason I use kill and dride
timber is because it's easier for me personally to get
a hold of and I'm guessing it's a lot easier
for a lot of people to get a hold of,
although it could be very first off for different people
depending on where they live in England or indeed in

(02:17):
the rest of the world. But me personally, it is
easier for me to get your hands on kill and dried.
Some of the considerations you might want to give yourself
if you're all going to do a construction like this
or to have, is that you do really need to

(02:37):
be getting some straight grained wood. So for those of
you that don't know, I'm going to give you a
very quick example. If you are making a chair and
you are using dowels, spindles or even the legs themselves,
if you've got grain, let's just say it for a

(03:00):
spindle or a dowel. If you've got the grain that
is running straight from the left side, on the right side,
it's coming towards the middle, and then all of a
sudden the grain runs out midway. That's going to be very,
very weak. And one of the issues with this is

(03:24):
that there's any sort of force that goes on that section,
which there will be, it's just it's just gonna fracture.
It's gonna be a clean fracture, and obviously you don't
want that to happen. So really, when you're making like
any sort of leg, whether it would be your leg
for a coffee table, a chair, a dining table, anything

(03:48):
like that, or indeed dowel, you want the grain to
run as straight as possible from the left to the right.
And that's and that's going to be a lot stronger
and it's going to be a lot harder for you
to snap that. One of the problems with this type
of chair. If you haven't got straight grain, especially for

(04:13):
the spindles, you might actually be on the chain. You
might just be wiggling you bump to get yourself comfortable,
or wiggling yourself in underneath the dining table, getting ready
to eat your food, so you know you're not going
to drop food on your lap, et cetera. By you wiggling,
you're actually creating racking. So when you're creating racking, that's

(04:35):
the force that's going to snap the spindle. So that
is one consideration that you do have to consider when
you're all going to build something like this. Obviously, originally
constructions like this were built with green wood, and very

(04:56):
quickly for those of you that don't understand, why are
you just haven't just haven't read into this with green
wood when you're splitting green wood, and green wood is
a term for you know, like it's still wet inside,
so there's still a lot of moisture and still a
lot of water. It hasn't been taken to a killing
or it hasn't been left slabbed, you know for maybe

(05:21):
you know, one, two, three, four year type of thing,
So it's a lot of moisture inside of it. So
when you're actually splitting this wood, the when you split
the wood, the wood when it's split will run with
the grain. So let's just say a we've got a
log in front of us, and you're trying to split

(05:41):
that wood ninety degrees to the ground. So what will
happen is that when you're hitting an axe or a fro,
where there's me fro, I don't know wherefore there's me fro.
So if you're using an axe or a fro when
you're when you're bashing that frow, let's just say, the
wood will start to split. And it doesn't matter where

(06:05):
you want that throw to go. If that if that
grain is running on a diagonal down towards the ground,
that frow will kind of go there. You will have
a little bit of control with a throw, but ultimately
the wood will dictate to a degree where you are going.
And obviously this is a good thing because if I

(06:29):
if I put my throw in and I split the
first section and it goes on a diagonal, the next
the next section I split, I know it's probably going
to go on a diaction on a diagonal, sorry, So
I can position where I wanted to pay, you know,
the thickness of that, and you know, start bashing down

(06:50):
and see where it goes. So it should technically, you know,
followed I'm exaggerating here on the diagonal, by the way,
but it should follow the grain. The splits of the
first split you've done, if that makes sense, So the
first split and the second split, they should kind of
follow each other because the grains should be running in
the same direction. You know, it doesn't always worked like that,

(07:13):
but if that's following the two splits off parallel to
each other or you know, to a degree, that's going
to be very strong, obviously, and that's you know, that's
kind of what you want. You want a lot of strength,
and that's obviously why. Well one of the reasons why

(07:35):
green wood is used. Another reason, which I think is
really clever. I know I'm raving on a bit, but
it's a good consideration and a lot of people might
know this, but if you are using green wood, what
was done in the past, and obviously it is still
used todar this technique is that the the devils will

(08:00):
be dried out, as will the legs, so you know,
the legs will be processed, that dowels will be processed,
but will not be processed one hundred percent. So I
don't know, for argument's sake, I'm not really sure on
the percentage of moisture. But let's just say this is
fifty percent moisture. This leg, it's fifty percent moisture content,

(08:24):
and we've got a dowel which is fifty percent moisture content.
So what was done in the past, And obviously some
people still use this technique, I think the maturity of
professional chair makers that are you making these styles of
chair will actually take away the dowel and they will

(08:44):
dry the dowel more. Sometimes they've got little killings and whatnot.
Some I've heard of some people putting them, you know,
next to a log burner, you know, obviously for t
winter time and so on and so forth. So what
this will do. This will get you know, quite a
lot of moisture out of the wood and they will

(09:08):
basically finish off let's just see the devil. They will
basically finish off the dewl you know, get into a
trade diameter, so on and so forth. And then some
people will actually go to a fur last step and
the sections that are actually going to go into the leg.
They'll actually put these dowels or the ends of the
dowels into heated sand, which again will will sat out

(09:30):
more moisture. And they can also put them the ends
into devices kind of like a mini killing where they'll
have light bulbs inside insulated box in Again, that's just
to pull the moisture out. So the idea with this
is that when this goes into the hole, the devil
goes into the hole, and there's glue added. So obviously

(09:54):
the moisture from the glue is going to expand the
the edge of the dowel, you know, making the dowel
expand into the hole, which is good. It's going to
provide a nice tight fit. So the second part to
this is that the legs, because the legs haven't been

(10:16):
dried out as much as the the dowels, we will
process the legs and then you know, driller holes and everything,
glue everything that gets so because this is for argument's sake,
it's fifty moisture, the leg has then got to lose

(10:41):
some of that moisture. So when you bring that, you
know into a house or maybe just in the workshopping,
and you know, a lot a lot of a lot
of chair makers will actually just hang the chairs up
and just let them, you know, fully dry out and
say there's any movement or any cracks on and so

(11:02):
and forthward. As these legs will dry, will actually shrink
and because the shrinking, the whole shrinks as well. So
you've got the devil which is going to expand a
little bit with the moishare of the glue, and because
you've over dried the edges of it, so you've got
that expansion of the dowel, and then you've got the

(11:22):
contraction or the shrinking of the leg. So as the
dell wants to get bigger, the leg is actually closing
in on itself. So again that's creating a nice tight joint.
A little bit longer with an explanation, but I thought
it's a really good, you know, thing for people to
know that if you don't already know it. So obviously,

(11:42):
with that being said, I don't. I didn't have that
with this, so I had to be, you know, pretty
decent with me fit. Something what I did deal with
the fit is that when I made the devils, I
made it de was slightly oversized, and I compressed the
very edges of the devil with a hammer and this

(12:03):
works extremely well. And it's the same sort of principle
is that instead of using heat to draw the moisture out,
you're actually just compressing the fibers off the wood. And
when you add the glue and let the glue dryer,
the fibers will actually expand that's the idea behind it.
So that's what I did deal with this, although admittedly

(12:23):
there was there was one or two that I wasn't
overly happy with, but it was still okay, but I
would have preferred for them to be a little bit tighter.
As it stands, as I said before, I haven't had
any issues with the chair. Obviously the chair gets used
daily and just by sitting in it, you know, shuffling
about the chair, it does create racking and you know,

(12:47):
all the all the joints are totally fine. So you know,
it seems like I've done a decent job with that.
For making the dowels, I've just used or I made
a simple jig. This is a suit. Suit are simple.
It's basically two vs. Cut out. I think I did
do a video of this ill linked in the description

(13:11):
of I did. I'm sure I did. How to make
one of these very very simple. So basically you've got
your square piece of timber and these are clamped into
place and you basically put the timber in and you
would just use a hand plane. So this could be
done on in my case, it could have been done

(13:31):
on the Roman workbench. I have got a shave horse
attachment and stuff. Again with that, if you want to
kind of look at that, there's a free no sign
up or anything like that. There will be links in
the description there. There's links everywhere for that PDF. So
that will show you how to make a Roman work bench.

(13:51):
And obviously it's got the plans you know, to add
on the shave horse attachment and so on and so forth.
So mm hmm. I did, however, I choose to make
the towels in an upright position, and I did choose
to use my number four plane and you little hate

(14:16):
rom playing. So between the two of these it was
quite quick to actually make the dowels. Dowels were really
quick to make. The chair legs themselves, believer or not,
were pretty quick to make. So the chair the back
chair legs h m hm. As you can say that,

(14:44):
you know, the do have an angle on them, and
this is just the aid in the in the back
rest section. Obviously you know you've got your tape out
at the bottom and the tape on the front as well,
which just gives up that little bit of you know,
visual type of thing. The backrest obviously, as you can say,

(15:07):
has a slight little dip. I think that may be
for me, it may be too much of a dip,
even though I've done this, so I think in the
future designs of this or you know, changes which I'm
going to make, I'm not sure if I'm just going

(15:28):
to do it you know, straight, or if not straight,
it'll only be a slight curvature, because I think that's
just too much, or at least for me. It is.
One of the one of the things that I liked
about the legs or the back legs, even the front

(15:51):
legs per see, is that they were really quick to make.
And that was the whole idea behind this whole chair
was just to try and make the easy to make
but quick to make. So, as I said, the legs
or you know, really easy to make. And I did

(16:12):
actually do a build video on this. Again, I'll put
the link in the description the build video. I don't
actually show cutting this with a Ioba saw, and that's
how easy it is, you know. I did actually want
to do that, so I did do one with a
Ioba saw, and I did do one with my track.

(16:35):
So the one thing I will see. What I think
I screwed up with is that I built these with
boards and I glued them to the gallas. So what
I actually done The boards were like twenty milimeters thick,
so I coult four of these out separately, then I

(16:56):
glued them to the gella. I think what would have
been better would have been to actually glue the two
sections to get at first and then cut them. It
wasn't a great hardship, but I just think it just
would have been quicker to do that. And That's what
I'm going to do with future, you know, builds of
this type of chair. Should I be using that to

(17:18):
get I am actually going to be looking to you know,
it gets maybe some forty millimeter thick material, but obviously
I'll have to see what's available at the time. Another
thing that I thought might slow myself down or might
slow other people down is the drilling off the hose.

(17:40):
So with things like this, you do have to make
sure that your hose are or you know, drilled at
the right angle. So what I did was use a
drill guide. So this is a simple drill guide I'll
put I'll put a link in the description for anyone

(18:00):
that wants to get one of these, and basically I'd
used this in conjunction with building this bench and it
worked very well to drill all the dog holes. So
I applied this with the chair and I have to say,

(18:21):
you know, the the holes I drilled were pretty good.
I don't think there were one hundred percent, you know,
ninety degrees, but they were really good. They were really close,
and that was good enough for me, so I was
really happy. And for the same I think this was
like about twelve pound. So what I did was to

(18:43):
drill a pilot hole and I followed that pilot hole
up with a court range bit, and the court range
bits just it just followed the pilot hole. So you know,
it's for me. This was a no brainer to get
to get the speed of the builds, you know, to

(19:04):
pick the speed up a little bit, should we say. Sorry.
One thing I didn't do, which I should have done
with the drilling was that I did not drill the
doubels before I actually cut the legs out, which would

(19:24):
have been a bit easier because I don't believe on
the back legs. I did actually have to position the
the drill on the on the bench and kind of
use the top of the bench as a reference. If
I had have left the waste material on, used this
little jig and then drilled it, it would have been

(19:47):
a lot easier. But obviously I didn't do that. But
for anyone that is going to be making this sort
of chair, wants to make this sort of chair, it's
definitely going to be easier for you to do that.
So you know, you've only got to use a piece
of tape to you know, to roughly get your depth
of where you want to drill to go, and just

(20:07):
take into consideration that you're going to be removing that material.
I took the time and I made a little template
so the legs and the fitment of the dowel, even
making the dowel and making the legs, I think that
was all pretty easy, and I was really happy with
the way the kind of turned out. Oh, I am

(20:31):
going to change the design a little bit, which I'm
going to talk about shortly. One of the problems that
that I haven't really sorted out and I want to
sort out or like, you know, get some ideas going
was the backrest. Because what I've done with the backrest

(20:55):
was to actually just use the board of material and
I just removed some material with a spokeshave and maybe
me playing I can't quite remember now, just to give
it that little bit of curvature. But for me, it's
not enough curvature. So I'm going to try and show

(21:16):
you's on the camera. Just probably might not be able
to see this on the camera, but there's very little
curvature on this and I personally find that it is.
It is a bit of an issue. So I mean,
looking at it from from this angle or straightforward, it

(21:37):
looks pretty good. But then I come round to the
side and I can see there's a very little curve
chart it doesn't look that good. But beyond it looking
like that, I will say that the backrest does it
does irritate us a little bit. I do actually spend
a lot of time with with this char all are

(21:59):
sitting in this chair because I do like the seat,
the weave portion of the seat, because it's so comfortable
and you can sit there for quite some time. Well
at least I could sit there for quite some time,
and I actually still do. But the backrest bollows us
because it's just not enough curve chat in the backrest,
and that's one of the problems I haven't solved yet,

(22:20):
so obviously I want that to be easy to do.
And the issue with the backrest is that if I'm
not using green wood and I want to steam bend
it's I can't soak wood. But I'm still not guaranteed
to have a good bend. I know some people have

(22:42):
had success with it. I have tried it in the
past to try and steam bend kill and dry wood,
and I just haven't had no success with it. Whether
i'd be you know, some fault of me own not
giving it enough time to soak the water up, or
maybe it's been a bad selection of wood from myself,
I just haven't had any success with it. So if

(23:06):
I wanted to steam bend it, I am probably looking
at having to go and source some green wood, which
is kind of defeating the object of the build. The
other option would be to you know, get some thin
strips of you know, viniale type stuff and build a
form and you know, glue, put it in the form,

(23:29):
climb it up, let it dry. So that's an option.
The issue with that is that you would basically have
to buy the fin strips if you don't have a band,
So I don't have a band, So if I wanted
the fin strips, I would literally have to saw them
by hand or buy them from you know, somewhere like

(23:53):
British Hardwoods here in the UK. That's the only place
that's potting to mind, that's got them, so you know
that sells the thin strips. I think they do, Like
I think it's two point five millimeters, So we'd have
to buy it, you know, several pieces of that and
bend it or put it in a form. So those
are kind of the options that I have. But everybody

(24:18):
might not have those options. Everybody might not have the
extra money to go and buy you know, the fin
sections for bending. They might not have a band, so
and they might not want to like me, you know,
spend hours and I was, you know, cutting the wood
and then haven't the plane it up afterwards? The playing
up afterwards isn't isn't per sue too much of an issue,

(24:41):
but the so and all those strips would be I think,
so that is a problem and I kind of still
need to you know, maybe sort something out with that,
come up with some sort of idea, and as of yet,
I haven't come come up with an idea. The ideas
that I have come up with the wa as I've
just discussed either you know, bite the bullet, get some

(25:04):
green wood, or you know, pay the money and get
something there, or you know saw it, which again I
don't pretend I want to do. So if you've got
any ideas, let us know in the comments what you
guys would do. Another thing that I am going to change,

(25:26):
and this is kind of going to be going more
towards or getting closer towards the original designs of these
or maybe not the original designs, but like the designs
that I have seen them. What I do like is
actually to make these legs hexagonal. So with these legs,
I did actually round them off the corners. At first

(25:48):
I did like it, but every time I kind of
look at this now I'm kind of thinking myself, I
wish I hadn't made that hexagonal, and I don't think
it's going to look better hexagonal. So I'm most likely
the next build I'm going to do, I am going
to make the legs hexagonal. I mean could possibly do

(26:10):
it with the with the dowels as well, although it
will probably only be very slightly I think, because I
don't think they look too good when the you know,
when it's like a clear hexagonal, or at least for me,
the dones, So it might only be you know, kind
of very slight on the on the dowels. I'll have

(26:30):
to give that a little bit of before. Obviously with
the backrest as well, with the way it connects to
the to the legs. In this particular chair, it is
actually mort stin and if I'm going to start you know,
steam bending or you know, using the form and gluing

(26:53):
things that geta obviously it's going to change the angle
of the mortars or or however whatever I do to
you know kind of you know, change the type of thing.
I did actually have a bit of an idea where
I could have just you know, creating a bit of

(27:15):
a you know, like a bit of a housing or
a half lap and just glued the whole backrests actually
onto the leg and put a couple of screws through
and I forget the technique now it is like maybe
a river technique. I've seen this years ago, I think
it was in a Fine Woodwork magazine, and basically a

(27:35):
brass screw is used. Once the brass screw is in place,
you then file out the head down, so you get
rid of the you know the slot, you know the
screw the screw head slots, and it just looks like
a brass rivet. It does actually look quite attractive, So
that was kind of one of the avenues I was
thinking about going down, but again I haven't made my

(27:57):
mind up. It would possibly simplify this a little bit more,
but again I haven't made me mind up about that.
So that's kind of one of the things I need
to sort out again, the whole idea with this chair.
I just wanted it to be simple. Finally, the weaving

(28:21):
on the chair, so the weaven on the chair, as
I said before, it looks really really cool and it's
very very comfortable. I think this is probably the first
time I've ever sat in a chair weave like this,
and obviously done it for like a good amount of time.

(28:43):
It's extremely comfortable. What I've used on this I used
Para code because I had Para code. If I had
to use Danish string, the Danish string would have cost
us more money and at the time I didn't want
to pay that money. So traditionally, these I believe these

(29:10):
sort of woman with hickory bark again for my arkhorn.
Just get your hands on hickory bark. I think that's
like a bit of a not a tough one to get,
but it would take a bit more looking in you know,
a few probably a few emails, and it probably cost
us a bit more money as well. I did when
I when I started this, I did kind of think myself,

(29:32):
you know, it would be so nice to get the
hickory bark to use on this chair. But again it
was going against the whole thing with the chair. The
whole idea was to make this nice and simple for
anyone to be able to do this. I mean, you know,
if you've got the money, you might be able to
go on Amazon like I did, and you know, purchase

(29:54):
a power cord. If not, you know, you might you
might have some sort of string or whatever at home,
depending on where you live, you know, in what part
of the world. You know, you might have you know,
some natural materials to hand that you can you know,
use for this. I don't know, but for me and

(30:16):
probably for people in the in the UK, it's probably
just easier just to go onto Amazon and order it
or some power code. There is other materials you can
order you can't actually get the Danish code now on Amazon.
A while ago you couldn't get your hands, or at
thea Start couldn't get your hands, or a few years ago.

(30:37):
But with the power code it's very strong. Obviously I
haven't had no issues. I did go with the color
black for obvious reasons, because you know these this is
going to get dirty and grimy and whatever else, and
where you may be able to get you know, dust

(30:57):
off it and a big grime off it's it is
going to just color just with every day use in
dirt and whatever else. So I did all for the black,
which is going to give us a little bit more
time before if I choose to to actually you know,
take all this power corde off or cut it off

(31:17):
and you know, reseat it. So probably not with this,
because I can't imagine the next three iteration of this
is going to look better. And unfortunately this this little
guy is probably going to go the journey or or
get chopped up in the fire, would who knows, who

(31:38):
knows you might even end up in here. You know,
there's a little there seat for yourself. Let us know
what you think in the comments. Do you think building
something like this would be easy for you have your
built chairs like this? Have you built better chairs and this?
I would I would guess that you just have built
better chairs in this. Do you think these types of

(31:59):
chairs are easy compared to let's see a Welsh dick chair.
I'd like to hear all your comments in the comments,
so until the next time, I shall say, speak to
you guys later