EJ vs. The Degenerate: Week 13

Earnest ‘EJ’ Christian and America’s favorite degenerate Zack ‘The Degenerate discuss NFL Week 13 NFL Power Rankings, BEST BETS, preview Florida State/Florida, Chris Paul’s upcoming retirement at the end of the season, and whether Kobe Bryant was ever the face of the NBA.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
The Earnestly Speaking Podcast is a show that is founded
on free flowing conversation and may it times venture into
mature subjects. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, earnestly speaking, pocus.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
This kid is how much younging in New York. Give
my gammy carry heed so much more to storm my product,
give flood the street.

Speaker 2 (00:30):
Opinion nation cod Fama.

Speaker 3 (00:32):
See oh off in the late Nani's gonna see me
go go my hustle on, no limitation, no fad army
your matutubules, opinionationousnab government, all season, homemade and checked the
numblice for propping my own waite.

Speaker 2 (00:47):
Supply your son the comfort earnestly speaking to.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
My ego is well faced, earnestly speaking to people. They
don't bread see him like a hurricane, Dura mile breeze, earnestly.

Speaker 2 (00:58):
Speaking, leave it e like a.

Speaker 4 (01:08):
The podcast once again the week thirteen editions of EJ
Verusus Degenerate, And of course we're joined here by America's
favorite degenerate himself, Zachary.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Happy Thanksgiving Eve Eve to you, sir.

Speaker 5 (01:21):
What's up having turkey coming up?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
Man?

Speaker 2 (01:24):
That's why you have family in town and uh, you're
a doing a family thing right now. And uh yeah,
I feel you, brother, I feel you.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
I feel a lot of people, a lot a lot
of people.

Speaker 5 (01:36):
For me, it's a lot of people, really, I mean,
you know me. I'm a real friendly person.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
So it's funny with with my wife too, because he
has a brillion family as his and he had my
family like fucking mom's side and her dad's side and
both that's are huge, you know what I mean, So
like two different like you know things here. You know,
I get it, bro, touch you, I get it all right.
Uh you won this week?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
Actually week week twelves.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
I thought I was gonna lose by half points and stuff.

Speaker 4 (02:08):
Man, I kept having Oh bro, listen. I don't know
if you saw my best bets for the week. My my, my, my,
my week week five, my week, my my best five
one five this year this week.

Speaker 1 (02:19):
Let me guess a lot of them were like buy
half a point or just a push.

Speaker 2 (02:24):
Chiefs half point? Uh, the Ravens were a full point.

Speaker 4 (02:31):
I think this one well, the rams I had had
had the Buckston covering sendpoint that wasn't gonna happen.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Remember one more? But yeah, now, of those half points
killed me. So that's all good. But we'll get to
our best best week through teams. A second.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
Before we get there, let's get to our power action
for the week. Zachary, give me your your bottom five first.

Speaker 5 (02:52):
Coming in.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
Taking the place of the Titans as the worst team
in the league. You lost the Shador Sanders. There's nothing
more that can be said. The Las Vegas Raiders, y'all
are terrible.

Speaker 5 (03:10):
They are one what the hell?

Speaker 4 (03:13):
They are pretty bad? Though, bro to be where to be? Frank,
I'm with you on that. I don't I don't agree
with this there on that, but I do see your argument.
You said when you text me said you have new
three and two, was like, fuck you put the Raiders.
I know he put the Raiders down there?

Speaker 1 (03:25):
Yeah, oh, but you wasted a first round draft pick.
That that That's all I can say. You literally wasted
a first round draft pick who has no chance of
ever producing in the league.

Speaker 4 (03:40):
But could I argue that the talk about I'm talking
about genty here, the line will be fucking terrible.

Speaker 5 (03:46):
Though again, I don't care.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
All right, look at all the great running backs in
the history of the league, and I'm not talking all
time great I'm talking the top ten running backs in
the league year in year round.

Speaker 5 (04:05):
They have play behind bad, bad lines.

Speaker 2 (04:10):
No, I get it, brother, I get it all right.
Right up in the rest of the five.

Speaker 5 (04:15):
Well, at thirty one, it's Titans.

Speaker 1 (04:18):
I mean, you're one in ten, ten, you deserve to
be thirty two, But we we're gonna let one team
be ahead of you.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:27):
Then it's the Saints, who really screwed me over. I
really expected more of this past weekend. And then it's
it's New Jersey as the Jets and Giants.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
So we had the same five, we have the same
five given order.

Speaker 4 (04:41):
So my thirty two was the Saints, thirty one's Titans,
thirty Raiders, twenty nine Jets, Giants, although Giants probably probably.

Speaker 2 (04:50):
The best two and teen has three football right? Would
you agree?

Speaker 1 (04:53):
Absolutely? But I would still have to argue, how can
you have this, have Vegas at number thirty like in
the last six weeks they have had to look like.

Speaker 5 (05:05):
The worst team in football. No, I'm with you, man,
I they're not even competitive.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
No, I get I get it. Like I said, I'm
not gonna argue with that. Like you can make a
case of the these bottom three teams.

Speaker 4 (05:19):
To be three two, and I went it when it
sounds silly, like honestly like losing Door Sanders It's first
start ever's career.

Speaker 2 (05:26):
I could see the argum for that, So I'm not
gonna sit there knock it. You know, that's what it is.
These are These are the clear bottom of five teams
in the league right now.

Speaker 4 (05:32):
Honestly, the Giants I'm a less less concerned about because
they have been competitive of all their games. They're not
getting blown out, you know, all these games are they're
like ten point dogs.

Speaker 2 (05:41):
They're in position to win these games. They should have
at least six wins this year.

Speaker 4 (05:46):
Okay, they've blown five games this year with don't just games,
so it's not like they're getting blown the fuck out.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
They just can't hold fucking leads.

Speaker 5 (05:53):
No, I totally agree, which brings me to two points.

Speaker 1 (05:57):
One, I was like gonna put Washington ahead of the
Giants as far as horrible team.

Speaker 5 (06:05):
And two, you have blown fively as they cost you wins.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
It took you this long to fire your defensive coordinator, Jay,
you got rid of Dave All what two weeks ago?

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Ridiculous redict you LUs, I'm with you on that. Without question.
So all right, it's the top ten, all right, number ten.

Speaker 1 (06:27):
You got at number ten, making the list for the
first time, leading the NFC Nora who had money on
that Chicago.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
Wow, that's I'm out there yet, Bro.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
I'm eight and one in their last nine games.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
Bro, the Cardiac Beers.

Speaker 4 (06:52):
Bro, I get it, man, But I don't think they're
still the best ten best teams in football right now.
I'm not there yet. I gotta see more. I'm look,
kayl Williams is impressed me week the week. He's impressing me.
I might with you, and I hope he does well.
I hope they will, Bro. I hope in one division.

Speaker 2 (07:07):
I really do. I'm just not there yet, Bro, Not
there yet, can't can't, can't go there? Number ten? Yeah,
maybe more. I'll say this much.

Speaker 4 (07:20):
If they went Friday in Philadelphia, not only we get
top ten, they'll get nice snug top ten, snug top ten. Okay, Bro,
how about that?

Speaker 2 (07:29):
Okay? Yeah, tell for me.

Speaker 4 (07:31):
Look again, this team is doing it with injuries glore
and whatnot. Look, in my opinion, they're not a super bottender,
although they've beaten some good teams this year to make
you think that maybe they can, they can, they can
maybe a spoiler in the an MC. But the Niners
number ten for me, they ain't four.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
They have no business being ain't four.

Speaker 1 (07:49):
Though that's really low, really low for that team probably
would actually be quality teams.

Speaker 5 (07:58):
And you're literally what, I'm going that low?

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I think the injuries are still gonna be an issue.
The ceilings lowered.

Speaker 1 (08:05):
That, yes, But I know who you have above this
this who wouldn't stand a chance on the football field
against the Bears or the Niners. I'll point them out
in your number eight, number seven seeds.

Speaker 2 (08:21):
Okay, who's going nine for you?

Speaker 5 (08:22):
Then at number nine, I have Detroit.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
I just can't quit them, as kind of like an
ask girlfriend, who that get you? Man?

Speaker 5 (08:32):
You just you just can't quit them.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
No, I totally understand that. I totally get Detroit thing.
They're in my top ten record. But something's missing the
bro something's missing.

Speaker 5 (08:41):
Yes, the offensive coordinator?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Yeah, how about both? Both?

Speaker 4 (08:46):
Number nine I went Baltimore. They didn't move from last week,
but something's up. They aren't first place in the mission.
Now for record, you saw the standings, now that not
one five in a row. Remember I said the six
game stretch where they should go no less than five
and oh six, five and one. They're now five and
no on that stretch. Now, having said that, I do

(09:09):
acknowledge Lamar Mamby hurts though, so.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
You know how it just made that comment about teams,
teams that could wouldn't stand a chance against Chicago for
the forty, This would be one of your teams. I
would put my mortgage up against Baltimore that they couldn't
beat Chicago or the forty.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
But that's a back take there for you, though. Let
me tell you why.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Baltimore already beat Chicago, that beating shadow when when bro
they beat them without Lamar.

Speaker 5 (09:45):
Yes, now I'm asking you right now how they.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Are exactly exactly. Listen, this streak started when you beat Chicago.

Speaker 5 (09:55):
So you're literally talking about seven games ago, No.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Four or five games ago, streak.

Speaker 1 (10:01):
The streaks started one in five and now they're six
and five.

Speaker 6 (10:05):
And they went and they went two and five to Chicago,
three four, five, six weeks five games ago, Okay, a
month ago.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
You really believe right now, the way in which Chicago
is playing versus the way and West Baltimore is playing.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
I'll give you, I'll give you this.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Would they even be in the game against the Night I'll.

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Give you this.

Speaker 4 (10:31):
This is where I'll give you some respect on that
take there, something is up with Lamar Jackson.

Speaker 2 (10:37):
I think he's still hurt. I think he's still hurt.
I'll give you that.

Speaker 4 (10:42):
If Lamar Jackson is still compromised, then yes, then they
they're not a top ten team.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Well, they're gonna playoff game or will be another one
and done season for Lamar.

Speaker 2 (10:54):
It depends on the matchups.

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Again, if the Chiefs in the playoffs, everything is wide open,
so you can't put it against them.

Speaker 2 (11:01):
But again, if Lamar's hurt, probably not Again.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
All other sixteens that make the playoffs against.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Baltimore, okay, and since the Ravens fan yourself, okay, number
eight you got.

Speaker 1 (11:14):
At number eight, I got the Buffalo Bills.

Speaker 2 (11:17):
Okay, Okay, I can't quit.

Speaker 1 (11:23):
You can't quit Lamar and the and the Ravens. I
can't quit Josh Allen and the Bills.

Speaker 2 (11:28):
Is well, I quit Josh Allen. I already quit Josh
Allen because they're not on my top Tennison record.

Speaker 4 (11:34):
And by way you should put you should put number
eight the Josh Allen not full Bills because it's josh
Alla bust at this point. All right, Number eight is
the Lions for me, Like I said, the Lions are
you know, something's up there with that team. Also, they
finally way to win. Jamia Gibbs is a beast, but
I think it's clear now that they their ceilings has
got even lower now in the playoffs. I don't think

(11:56):
they're better than Philadelphia. I don't think they're better than
the Rams. At this point, I'm to seattle over them
right now and then right now everything else is a wash.
With with with with the Green Bay and also in
the conference, it's a wash. Something's up with Detroit.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
So all right, number seven he got at.

Speaker 1 (12:14):
Number seven, I'm almost ready to quit his name. I'm
going to give him one last chance. He was winning
until the fourth quarter against the Chiefs Indiana Jones.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Okay, okay, I literally put that.

Speaker 1 (12:31):
More on that offensive line in the run game. Jonathan
Taylor had his worst game of the season, and I
think that's what cost him.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Okay.

Speaker 4 (12:41):
Number seven for me is the Packers. That was a
good wings. Minnesota All beat the Minnesota Umans fall apart.
Now Jim Cuffey is terrible.

Speaker 5 (12:49):
They were before they showed up for that game.

Speaker 4 (12:52):
Yeah, but green Bay is like Detroit, another team that's
kind of like you know, they're not been in Philadelphia
and not better than the Rams and not better than
in Seattle.

Speaker 2 (13:02):
Now, yeah, so there you go, all right, number number six.

Speaker 5 (13:07):
We got at number six.

Speaker 1 (13:09):
I have Sam Fran That's a team that knows how
to win. They figure out how to win.

Speaker 4 (13:18):
Yeah, they Doyle's coach a year current. In my opinion,
number six remans the Colts. To me, that loss is
more about Indy and sorry, more about k C desperate
finding a way to win because they have to win.

(13:38):
That was more about that Indye showed up in that game.
Indy had him that the rights case is better than
the records in my opinion still because they have that
coach at that quarterback. But that was more our case
being desperate. I'll say that much. And he's still a
good team. I had ChIL chiefment in this game. I
actually the Chief went a little more comfortable, to be
honest to you. So the fact that this game went overtime,

(14:00):
I actually feel good with the cult nymore because you're
asking a lot to be a desperate champion in the
Chiefs on the road in probably the hardest place in
the league to win that an he almost did that,
so ill give him that much to the losses against
against the Rams and the Chiefs by literally about three points,
about one score game.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
I feel about INDI right now, still big picture you got.

Speaker 1 (14:23):
And number five I have the Seahawks.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
Okay, it speels slow for me. I know, why go ahead.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
I mean, honestly, I think that's as high as you
can put them right now.

Speaker 5 (14:39):
I know clearly you have them hired.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
But five there, top ten team offensively, defensively still.

Speaker 5 (14:50):
Why some why defenses have.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
Not figured out how to go?

Speaker 5 (14:54):
You know, man over the top on.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Jsm or jan As, what is it?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
Who's that the receiver?

Speaker 5 (15:05):
Yeah Jackson?

Speaker 2 (15:07):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (15:10):
I just don't understand why he's not getting double He
is the best receiver in the league right now.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
He's bawling to bro He's been really, really good.

Speaker 5 (15:19):
Why he has the slightest chance of cracking two thousand?

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Oh yeah he does. He definitely does five for me.

Speaker 4 (15:26):
Denver again, I went from like not having him all
year longness on my list to like, also last week,
do you know my list?

Speaker 2 (15:32):
Number six?

Speaker 1 (15:33):
No?

Speaker 2 (15:33):
Number five? Now they didn't play this weekend, and they were.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
They moved up. Look that doesn't mean I'm a believing
Denver with a bigger picture. I'm believing a defense. Champagne
still get really good coach, you know, bo next Chesson
has moments. But I'm still defense in Denver.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
Still. But you gotta get the devil's due good nine
and two, you know. So there's that. All right, four,
you got the number four.

Speaker 1 (15:57):
You gotta give him their due, Denver.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
I figured you did that. I figure did that.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
You already said anything. Andy just says, so there you go.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
All right, cool for fourth me the Seahawks will so
we slop four to five. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (16:10):
Again, Seattle's loss to the Rams last week was a
good loss. You know that score against Tennessee, I know,
I know didn't cover. I know that game was ever
close though. It was just you know, they benched your
guys in late and whatever. So it is what it is, Seahawks.
All right, number three, you got.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Number three.

Speaker 4 (16:29):
I have New England to the Why I'm gonna imagine
the next the three one two, three is gonna be
the same order Patrioti.

Speaker 2 (16:39):
Three for me as well too.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
Also again, look, the Bengals game was kind of a
you know, trap game, and they spouted the trap.

Speaker 2 (16:49):
People.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
Lot of people, lot of people said the Bengals could
win that game because it is a trap game, and
they almost did.

Speaker 2 (16:53):
But the Patriots, Wow, what what year are we in now?
Two thousand and six five.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
And the Patriots now down again? I don't know, man
number two, you got I forget Eagles? Yes, Eagles, Yeah,
not a good loss. The way he lost that game
with Dallas. That's more about Dallas though than Philly. I
picked I picked Dallas with that game last week. Just

(17:20):
the way it lost was kind of frustrating, but that's more.
That's more about Dallas than about Philly. That's a fucking
about that game and and.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
Move on the other way.

Speaker 5 (17:28):
I'm like that says more about Philly.

Speaker 1 (17:30):
They got out to twenty one nothing lead and then
got just get our minds got distracted.

Speaker 4 (17:38):
Maybe, but I feel like this may be a good
loss for the Eagles though, too well, wake up call, Okay,
a little sluggish eighty rounds complaining?

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Okay, okay, fine, eighty rounds. Not the ball. You have
the ball a lot on Sunday. You're fucking lost. You're
so fucking lost, So what so what's what's the objective here?
To win games? Or to feed your ego the same
number one of the Rams? Obviously that's easy, insane.

Speaker 1 (18:07):
They are so dominant. I can't even believe they're not
better than two to one to go to the super
Bowl right now.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
Well because they haven't eaten Philly yet.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
It doesn't matter, man, They're just they're like a freight
train right now.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
I don't I don't agree with you, but you got
you gotta beat the man and beat the man. Say
that's all I gotta say. So all right, we go,
best bets we got, Like I said, you won last week.
We third team.

Speaker 4 (18:37):
We're gonna have three games and thanks Giving a course,
one on Black Friday and then they roll out on Sunday.
So it's be exciting weekend for football. Hunh, little staggered
schedule this week.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
You know.

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Dan's giving Slay first matter these three games, that's giving
pretty for interesting. Actually, Packers at Lions. The Lions at
two and a half one favorites the over under Zach.
It's forty eight and a half on this one.

Speaker 1 (19:06):
I would go go Lion, but I feel like actually
the safe I bet because I feel like both teams
have been disappointing of late.

Speaker 5 (19:13):
I'll take the under.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Now.

Speaker 4 (19:17):
These two teams played on Thanksgiving two years ago and
green Bay shocked the world and beat Detroit, which started
the ascent to the playoffs. This did that game that
was the Jordan Love turn around game, remember that two
years ago. I just don't trust green Bay in the spot.

Speaker 2 (19:34):
Detroit.

Speaker 4 (19:35):
Uh, they need to win bad to that point, Vegas
likes green Bay here a little bit too us because
a half points will he is We're telling I'm gonna
I'm gonna go ahead and take Detroit this one.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
I think Troy will wake up this week, the week
to week wake up. So give me Detroit. All right.

Speaker 4 (19:49):
The second game on Thanksgiving, I'll go wait for this game,
Chiefs at Cowboys.

Speaker 2 (19:54):
The Chiefs are three point favorites over under Zach st two.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
You know the smart money would say take the over.

Speaker 2 (20:05):
That's what I'm doing.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
I feel like a game on man's gone take take
the Cowboys.

Speaker 5 (20:13):
Let's go, let's roll. Let's roll with the Cowboys.

Speaker 1 (20:15):
Man.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
What's funny because I'm picking them to win the game.
I'm i bet, I'm betting to win the game. I'm
betting the over is my best bet here. However, my
bets in play now because their last six games Chiefs, Lions, Chargers,
command Commanders, Giants, and Vikings all six games winnable. Now,
Chiefs aren't scary you, neither the Lions. So my my, my,

(20:41):
my trek for nine wins this year is very much alive.
The the Eagles win definitely went a long way with
that one. So but I'm going to bet the over.
I like your bet on Cowboys because I think the
Cowboys winnows game. Actually, I'm gonna take the best bets,
the over. So all right, the final game here on
the on the fans giving Slate, you got Bengals at Ravens.
The Ravens are six half point favorite, the over under

(21:01):
Zach two and a half.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Oh, I'm taking Burrow in his first game back beating
the Ravens.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
See I can't.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
I just do not see you, Old unless the Ravens
defense can shut down Baltimore or shutdown Cincinnati's offense.

Speaker 4 (21:19):
So I don't know why you've been Borrow backing back. However,
the Bengals only what three back in the division, and if.

Speaker 5 (21:27):
You get actually.

Speaker 2 (21:30):
If you win this, I guess. But but they won't
have T Higgins for his game.

Speaker 4 (21:35):
Most likely chases give me back, So Chase, get a
lot of those catches, best betsally over, These won't give
me a stink anyway, So give me over in this one.
So all right, you got the Friday's back Friday game.
You got Bears at Eagles. Eagles seven point favorites over
under forty five.

Speaker 1 (21:53):
Seven points right now, I don't know world in which
the Eagles could cover seven. Give me, give me the
Bears even if they lose. Give me the Bears plus
the seven.

Speaker 4 (22:02):
Yeah. I kind of see your point there, but I
betterac if I do. That is when the Eagles actually
went away there. Finally, I think the Dallas lost their
wake up call. It's like it's like a fucking Eagles
fan now all suddenly these last month, if it's like
an Eagles fan now, it's weird. I don't understand that.
I'm not an Eagles fan, guy, I swear to God,
I'm not. Okay, give me pulled up the covers game.
I think the Eagles game Bad Cowboys game was a call.

(22:25):
So all right, Sunday, here we go, Niners at Browns.
The Niners of five point favorites the over under Zach
three and a half.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
Yeah, I'll take the Niners, all right, THEO one day
best player and one touchdown and everyone's all of a
sudden like, yep, here's a future star in this league.

Speaker 5 (22:45):
Sorry, Shador, but you're gonna have to wear another game.

Speaker 2 (22:49):
Give me the Niners, I see it, Uh, best bet, though.

Speaker 4 (22:54):
I like the under because defense isn't gonna be good
this game. Defense gonna show up this game. So I
see a just like last night. I guess the Panthers.
I see that like a freaking twenty to thirteen game,
that kind of thing. So give me, uh, give me
the under, all right.

Speaker 2 (23:10):
Jaguars at Titans the Jaguars or sings that point favorites
you over under forty two, Zach.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
But ill should let you pick this one first. After
what you did last week. You almost nailed the Jaguars
game as far as actual score that.

Speaker 5 (23:27):
That was insane.

Speaker 4 (23:29):
Yeah, I'm also the Titans as well. I have them
as well because I still do not touch the Jaguars.
But I will say this though, that was.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
A huge win for the Jaguars. Huge win because you
lose like an Arizona.

Speaker 4 (23:43):
Now now you're not glut in the wild card with
the Chiefs and the Ravens and the Steelers and all
those teams. And now you don't want to be there
at glut because you're not catching the Colts at this
point for the division most likely.

Speaker 2 (23:55):
Okay, you're not catching the.

Speaker 4 (23:55):
Colts, so you needed you needed some such team you
guys cards picture And he did that on Sunday against
a team that you should beat but always can steal
a game from you.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
So big win, and they probably would have games to Tennessee.

Speaker 4 (24:09):
But I'm going to pick the Tennessee PA Titans on
the points because dude a wife, Williams some weird optics
in division.

Speaker 1 (24:14):
So rise though. The one thing Jesson Mill has going
for him, it's like they've won every game against the
playoffs possible contender.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Yeah Chiefs. Yeah, beat the Chiefs.

Speaker 4 (24:26):
I think be the Texans early year, right, yeah, yep,
So they do have the tiebreakers and doing a good
job of pile that on all Right. Another AFC South game,
Texans at Colts. The Colts of four that point favorites
the over unders Zach is forty four.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
They're back in the Dome. Gimme the Colts.

Speaker 1 (24:46):
That's all I gotta say. A rebound game by Jonathan Taylor.
I get, I get Houston's defense is going to be aggressive,
but no, they're back on the Dome at home.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
My question is my questions though, are we going to
see c. D. Stroud this week? That's my question.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
Do you need to see caesaris Stroud right now? I mean,
Davis Mills is winning again.

Speaker 4 (25:12):
That's a good point. That's a very good point. Coach
would win this game. I'm not where about that best
bet thos the under, I mean the underest one, because
if anything in Texas defense is pretty decent, best in
the league, actually more better redecent. That's one, all right,
Saint to Dolphins. The Dolphins is six point favorites. The
over under Zach, it's forty two.

Speaker 1 (25:34):
I bought it too much on the same as a
couple of weeks ago.

Speaker 5 (25:37):
I'll tape the Dolphins.

Speaker 4 (25:39):
Yeah, same here off of bye Saints of cooked very
easy game here not but Dophins. Dolphins are kind of
like not that look that shot again in the playoffs,
but they're kind of two games behind, a game behind
the chief and now currently well not well, two games
beyond the rest of the Wald Cards, so they're still
in the walk card picture, but walk shot though. But
give me Dolphins not pay true, but at least they're trying.

(26:02):
I'll give you this though. They're their clothing schedule is
cake should be kick now. They'll probably fuck it up
because that's who they are, but they should based for
a talent went out the rest.

Speaker 2 (26:16):
Of the year because they've played the Pats late in
the year.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
But it's the week eighteen when everythings wrapped up with
the the Patriots, So that's the toughest game going forward.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
So Ba gre Dubins here this week on this one.

Speaker 4 (26:26):
All right, we got Falcons at Jets. The Falcons two
and half one favorites over under is thirty nine and
a half.

Speaker 1 (26:39):
No, I'm like gonna just throw you a bone on
this game or not. I could never pick the Jets,
So I'm gonna take Kirk Cousins and it'll probably cost
me a game because he don't of course screw me, but.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I'm taking me under this game though.

Speaker 4 (27:03):
This game is cas unwatchable game, Dude, Kirk Cousins against
the Tyrod Taylor. I will say Thees look like a
better offense of Tyber Taylor under center though than freaking
justin fields. It's damn sure, but uh.

Speaker 2 (27:16):
Just still bad. All right, Cardinals at Bucks. The Bucks
are three point favorites over under zach Is forty five s.

Speaker 5 (27:24):
Who's the Bucks back up again, Teddy Bridgewater. Oh, mister
high school suspended coach.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
He got thrown he got thrown thrown into duty this week. Remember,
you know it's big It's bigger out this week eventually.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
Yeah, that's shout of jury.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
Yeah, he's a you know, I I gotta gues some
love to a coach who wants to actually take care
of his high school players.

Speaker 5 (27:53):
Let me roll with Teddy Bridgewater.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
Same here, man.

Speaker 4 (27:57):
I think they'll find a way to win the whole week.
Practice will help. It's not a bad backup option to
have when when.

Speaker 1 (28:05):
Has to have.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Yeah, I'll take the Bucks here on this one as well.
All right, you got Rams at Panthers. The Rams with
ten half point favorites over under Zach's forty five.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
Oh points.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
Though, here's the best backup in the league going against
the best team in football.

Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, I got.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Here's my question.

Speaker 2 (28:33):
Go ahead.

Speaker 1 (28:34):
The Panthers gonna be so stupid as to pay this
guy after his third year or will they at least
be smart enough to say, no, you you at least
have to do one more year.

Speaker 4 (28:44):
No, I'm with you, you better do more year. Bro,
here's name of Brice Young. Like, I get, why is
you starting quarterback? But but I'm like, oh, I.

Speaker 5 (28:54):
Don't even understand that.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Well.

Speaker 4 (28:56):
The thing though, I watched him last night, I'm like, okay,
so not on defensive side, like I watched him most
of the year, and I'm like, okay, so you're not horrible, Okay,
but you're not special.

Speaker 5 (29:08):
What makes she is horrible? You watched that game and
the entire first half of that game.

Speaker 1 (29:16):
What do you have? Twenty yards twenty five total yards
passing and an entire half of football.

Speaker 4 (29:24):
He's the guy that when he's we've seen short corrects
in the past. We've seen Drew Brees, we've seen Russell Wilson,
but they don't play short. There's something special about them.

Speaker 2 (29:33):
But small. He's short. He's small.

Speaker 1 (29:38):
He plays small like Dylan Gabriel does.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
Okay, yes, yes, fucking I'm I'm saying the Rams to
cover this fucking game.

Speaker 5 (29:47):
This is an easy cover for the Rams.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
Do you think ten and a half pints? Easy? Easy?
Cover easy, dude.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
I think they win by as many as they beat
the bucket the Buccaneers.

Speaker 2 (29:59):
Oh my god?

Speaker 4 (29:59):
Really okay, yes, all right, all right. We have Vikings
at Seahawks. The Seahawks ten point favorites over under it's
forty one Zach. It is the Sam Darnable.

Speaker 1 (30:12):
Oh yeah, yeah, No, no give me the Vikings. I
hesitated for a second thing about or.

Speaker 5 (30:20):
No, not give me the Vikings.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
Give me Seattle. What give that's hesitating on that defense
for a split second.

Speaker 5 (30:28):
Then I was like, no, no, give me Seattle.

Speaker 4 (30:30):
I know that Mcrobe's out probably which probably probably helps
the Vikings in the sense, but I don't know who
the all the backup is for the Vikings.

Speaker 2 (30:38):
Remember Carson Wentz off of the.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
Year, he's the Division two quarterback.

Speaker 2 (30:43):
Even worse see is like a little like a too
low should be got twelve at least.

Speaker 4 (30:50):
All right, probably probably game of the week here based
on the situation. Bills at Steelers, the Bills are three
and a half point favorites. The over under Zach is
forty seven and a half.

Speaker 1 (31:05):
The ship is going down in Pittsburgh. Drive your life, ruf,
women and children. First, Bill's Bills to cover.

Speaker 2 (31:20):
You think. Okay, I have a hard time picking this game.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
First of all, I gotta know that I gotta make
sure that Aarons plays the game. So until we get
that clarity, I'm not gonna pick a winner of this game.
But I said, I think the best best's gonna be
over because both the defensive stink.

Speaker 2 (31:38):
Best best.

Speaker 5 (31:39):
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
So what you're you're really trying to tell me is
the best chance for the Steelers is Mason Rudolph playing.

Speaker 2 (31:47):
Well, he plays something, I'll think Buffalo. But Aaron Rodgers is.

Speaker 5 (31:51):
Waiting Aaron Rodgers. You think they're saying a chance.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Yeah, of course, it's pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (31:58):
Not not.

Speaker 4 (32:01):
He's not the reason why they've been mid this year.
That's not the reason why I been mad. It's been
the defense been terrible.

Speaker 5 (32:09):
Defense was terrible.

Speaker 1 (32:10):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (32:11):
By the way, I do.

Speaker 4 (32:12):
See a world now, officially where Mike Temmlan is really
good duties this year.

Speaker 2 (32:16):
I do see a world.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
It probably won't happen, but I'm actually closer to, like
you know what, it might not be the worst dying
in the world.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
To go another direction.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Do you think he gets relieved or does he get traded.

Speaker 5 (32:31):
For a draft pick.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Uh, I mean musical parting. All right, So I think.

Speaker 1 (32:46):
There's a better chance to get traded than cut than.

Speaker 2 (32:48):
Fired, right, knowing to run his history, yes, yeah, to
cheek to fire someone. All right.

Speaker 4 (32:56):
You got Raiders at Chargers. The charges of nine point favorites.
The over under Zach is forty one.

Speaker 5 (33:02):
Yeah, give me the Chargers.

Speaker 1 (33:03):
Are you serious we're seeing on football going against the Chargers. Yeah,
give me the.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Chargers, Accordanton general. Yeah, but I think because the the
visual game, I'll stay away from this. Chargers win this
game definitely because off of bye week. Best bet though
it's forty one is very low.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Give me over this one, all right.

Speaker 5 (33:22):
Over unders forty one. Yeah, let's put the over under
on gent.

Speaker 1 (33:26):
He's rushing yards at forty one.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
You know what? He goes over that? All right? This
is such your ass up, that's all all right.

Speaker 4 (33:36):
We got Broncos at Commander's Sun Night Football. Of course,
the Broncos six app on favorites. The over under Zack
is forty three and a half.

Speaker 2 (33:46):
True game. Jane Daniels. Jane Damiels, is there's a there's
a there's a word that he might play this game.

Speaker 1 (33:54):
Might Key he'll probably start and McClaren, uh, you know
a wide receiver will not. But uh, this is my
first mortgage beat of the season.

Speaker 5 (34:10):
Oh oh, bet your house on Denver.

Speaker 2 (34:16):
Okay, so this same long shot Sunday, So long shot.
I'll like they play. Yeah, give of course I like
Denver's too also, but I think the best Betty under
and even the commanders Ault of too. Why do you
mean bothering trying to bring him back?

Speaker 5 (34:34):
You do not understand this?

Speaker 2 (34:36):
Like the NMC seventh seed right now has six wins
and currently.

Speaker 1 (34:43):
You should not be even thinking about You shouldn't even
be if you're Washington, you should not even be trying
to build a rhythm with your offense. If the guy
is hurt, finch them, bring on a practice squad player.
All you can do is lose to improve your team.

(35:03):
You do not have a second round pick, You do
not have a fourth round draft pick. Yeah, do not
try to win a football.

Speaker 5 (35:12):
Game, please, please, oh God, do not try and want
to focus.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
That's why I love the Giants. That's why I love
what the Giants doing. Now.

Speaker 4 (35:19):
The Giants are entertaining me. Like in recent years when
the Giants check out after week nine week to ten.
I checked out a year. Don't even watch them anymore.
The Giants still watchable, but and losing the same time too,
So I'm gonna be a competing bill.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
I'm a Look, I've never.

Speaker 4 (35:30):
Been pro tanking, but now in a league where you
need assets to build, you know what we we ain't
going anywhere.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
You're not going anywhere either. This fucking turn of thing
from the studs.

Speaker 1 (35:42):
What a wide receiver saying a one seventh of your
salary cap. You have to tank when it's a bad season.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
I agree. I totally agree under for me this game though,
although I probably should have donever just one. I'll just
use that. Daniel Lane will play, so I'll go under anyway.
All right, My night football? Last one?

Speaker 4 (35:58):
We have the Giants at Patriot. It's the Paths of
sand Point. Favorites over Underzack forty six.

Speaker 2 (36:02):
And a half.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Well, I want to stress this again, just like I
did with Washington, you have nothing tank.

Speaker 5 (36:13):
Do not try and win.

Speaker 1 (36:15):
Start Start Russell Wilson, don't even start Jamis.

Speaker 2 (36:20):
Why try? Where's the fun in that? Though?

Speaker 1 (36:27):
Because you're gonna win. And you know what I heard
last season when y'all won. Oh, our Drappiics status, our
traffic status.

Speaker 5 (36:37):
Start Russell Wilson.

Speaker 4 (36:39):
I will say this much. If there's a game I'd
rather win the rest of the year, it's this one.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Does the one that matter?

Speaker 5 (36:47):
Why would you care about a regular.

Speaker 4 (36:49):
Season just to fucking give them this to spoil? This
is spoiler Patriots because they're yapping again. They're yapping, Oh
we're back and wrong. It mean it's been fantastic this year. Possible,
m MEB possible.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
I'm not saying it is.

Speaker 4 (37:07):
I think Stafford and Taylor as a conversation for that one. However, however,
you know they've been good, but it would be fun
that this winning streak they've been going on for the
last like two and a half three months, the Giants
who are two and ten, you know, go back into
the history a little bit and this kind of like
the spoil things for the Patriots were having to doing

(37:28):
things like that, Zachary, and why not do it more time?

Speaker 2 (37:33):
For all time sake? You know what I'm saying, For
all times sake.

Speaker 1 (37:35):
I can't take away the one seed.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Make me happy for a night, Giants and the points
here who you can take in this game?

Speaker 5 (37:46):
I'm taking the Patriots. Okay, and also I will spend
the rest of.

Speaker 1 (37:51):
The season reminding you about your draft status if your
Giants fuck up.

Speaker 5 (37:56):
And win this game.

Speaker 2 (37:57):
Yeah, you know you can do it all you want, brother,
you have every right to do so. Okay, all right.

Speaker 4 (38:03):
There's a week threeteen best bets? All right, come more things,
get out of here. It is Florida State Florida week, Zach.
In my thirty five years of being a fan of
the Seminoles, I don't think there's ever been a more
putred FSU Florida matchup than the one we have come here.

(38:25):
And honestly, it's not in Forestate's fault this time. Florida
is bad as bad as things are FSU this year,
and mean things have been bad since Week five, Week six.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
It is fucking worse of Florida three and three and seven.

Speaker 1 (38:41):
I'm not even gonna talk bad about the Gators. I
do not want to talk bad about the Gators right
now for the simple fact if they land, it will
sting even more. Here's what I will say. I think
the last time both these teams were this horrible mm hmm,
it was when Florida State was still an all girls team.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
All right, God.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
That I think. I think that was that first year
after we became all inclusive. That might have been the
last time both teams.

Speaker 5 (39:18):
Were this bad.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
Uh.

Speaker 5 (39:23):
But I did also warn you about, you know, taking
NC State.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
You did, you did? You did? What the fuck was that?
And my way, I forgot that it was on Friday
night last week, and that was a Saturday game. And
by the way, I FINT doesn't do well Fridays, so
I should have known that. Howd I know it on Friday?
We did pick last week on the show, I might

(39:49):
pick up NC State because that back alone.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
I'm about ready to look up the actual ACC record
of Bobby Bounty because I'm not sure Bobby Boutin lost
this many ACC games and his entire career at FSU
as this freaking loser Norville has lost in the last
two years.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
That's right now, Biballs Records Agency, It's see, well he hasn't.
He had an eighty one percent percentage UH in fourteen
season span, AC sure record of one o eight and thirteen.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
One eight thirteen and we've already lost thirteen games in
the last two years.

Speaker 2 (40:40):
Yeah, fucking crazy. So bye bouts roll In his grave brother.

Speaker 4 (40:47):
So bad, bro, Man, I tell you this, this this
school would last like eight years. Man, it has been
such a detrimentary We just.

Speaker 1 (40:56):
Couldn't pony up another half a million dollars for Jimbo
Fisher when we were rolling.

Speaker 2 (41:04):
Right, and this is what we get.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
Oh well, So Florida is currently a one point favorite
and the over runners threte and a half. It isn't
Florida at the swamp. I'll take Faschis'm a homer, but
who knows.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
Bro, You my money and I'm taking Florida.

Speaker 4 (41:24):
Okay, there you go. Bool done then, And and if
we lose this game seems over, we win. This gameligible
season has been over since Week five.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
I understand that. But we're bowligible people in this game.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
So well, I'm supposed to want to go watch that
Handes Underwear Bowl.

Speaker 4 (41:50):
Wait this gamest a four thirty early the E was
the game for us. Oh well, all right, I want
to touch on two NBA things here because it is
a Dansgiving week. I'm that's not a pods planned this
week other than one more thing tomorrow. I'm doing the
best thing one. That's about it. Because the Survivors series
on Saturday Chris Paul your favorite point qude of all time.
Announced announces were retiring the end of the year. Chris

(42:15):
Paul is the Clippers currently right now, You've been one
of Chris Paul's biggest critics on this show. Uh, now
we know he's retiring. Your thoughts on his retirement where
he plays all time?

Speaker 2 (42:26):
What do you what do you? Can you find something positive?
Chris Paul not puncher himself?

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah, I mean, honestly, guy, he's got the greatest right
hook to the nuts ever, Like he literally made uh
Draymond green Looke tame when it came to hitting grown
men in the balls. But ever, we're gonna talk legacy.

(43:01):
You he's spent so long chasing a ring he was
able to climb the ladder on the assist title on
the assist ladder.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Well is yount one to know? Is he still?

Speaker 1 (43:16):
Is he? Like he's like, I'll ten thousand assists.

Speaker 2 (43:20):
Behind, okay, number one?

Speaker 1 (43:23):
Are you serious? No one will ever catch Yeah, Lebron
can play for another fifteen fucking years.

Speaker 5 (43:32):
He ain't gonna catch him, all right.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
THEO he he played at a time where he could
have been a more dynamic scorer if he wanted. He
had a beautiful inside game, drive to the hoop, could
hit from eighteen feet out, and yet he chose to

(43:57):
always be kick it out. Probably would have been an
all time twenty and ten guy if he'd chose to
score more and retire earlier. But he was at best

(44:18):
the number three, number four point guard during his generation
of play, and he's borderline top ten.

Speaker 4 (44:28):
Okay, So let's go to the generation one part first,
So in his generation, okay, So in let's take the
twenty year span from the time he came to the
league to just five to now.

Speaker 2 (44:41):
So the best point guards in league in that twenty
year span, we will say, obviously him will go.

Speaker 6 (44:47):
Obviously Steve nash Well, kid was on the by old
five kid was already starting to come down.

Speaker 4 (44:55):
But what what are these kids find? So we steph Curry,
we go Westbrook, we go Chris Paul. That's three right there.
If want to throw kids will be it, go right
and throw throw kid in there. I will still say
kids best years from before that. Who else we consider
the top top point guard in the league last twenty years.

(45:18):
I mean, some people say Luca now because Luca is
a telling me a point.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
I guess you're could. I mean in seven years.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Okay, who else do we consider?

Speaker 1 (45:31):
We started dragging it all the way out to the
end of his career. It's not even fair. I'm trying
to start thaying about his early prime versus the others.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
But yeah, because his prime, because his prime is from
two thousand and seven to two thousand and.

Speaker 2 (45:48):
Eighteen nineteen.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
I'll give you the Houston years two also because Houston
team wants into the final with him, so he has
a nice twelve year run at that point.

Speaker 5 (45:57):
Then you're also forgetting hardened.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Harden is a better point guard, better score.

Speaker 7 (46:03):
Yeah, he has led led the league and assist I've
always been hardest complicated because he that that changed in
the NBA philosophy.

Speaker 4 (46:16):
He was only a two guard, but he madeim a
point because of the way the officers run and the league.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
It's a little weird. I get it. I get it.

Speaker 5 (46:22):
To average assist the game as a guard, drew the
point guard.

Speaker 1 (46:26):
Oh yeah, right with you, because you're just missing Steph
Curry who averages six assists the game, and he's the
point guard because he's smallest guy in the court.

Speaker 2 (46:38):
I'll say this much. Chris Paul for his generations low
lower than three would have been three, So be it.
He's the lord than three.

Speaker 1 (46:49):
Well, after all the names you're named, I don't even
know if I can put him five.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
Well, I to about this kid because kids best years
before he got in the league, all right, So it's
kids out. So you looking at the Botance Westbrooki battling
Chris Paul, Grand and Steph Curry and Hardenes is the
fourth one.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
I still look at cards of two guard. I get it.

Speaker 4 (47:06):
It's complicated, but it's fine. I com two or three
point guard all time him Westbrook.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
I couldn't go to.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
So Chris Paul now all time. Now, I know somebody's
been We've been debating on the show for years now.
I don't think he's top five obviously, because the first
of your top five is running out with Magic Cory,
Isaiah Stockton, and Kid. That's your five right there, Paul,
including that, right then your next five includes Gary Payton,

(47:40):
uh Oscars, Oscars in there, Westbrooks and there somewhere who else?

Speaker 5 (47:51):
Harden Luca at this point is an all time great.

Speaker 4 (47:55):
Chris Paul is definitely to me top ten, But I'm
with you, he's definitely the bottom of the top ten,
probably number ten, Yeah, which I think.

Speaker 2 (48:07):
But I think it's funny because like, it's not that
he doesn't have the ring, because because stock was the
top five is a ring.

Speaker 1 (48:16):
I want you to think about what we just did.
We excluded everybody the entire history of the NBA prior
to seventy nine.

Speaker 5 (48:26):
Minus Oscar.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Oh, you didn't even want to say his name.

Speaker 4 (48:30):
Oscar complicated because Oscar, he's a he was everything to me.
He's like, I don't look at it, look at a
big more than a point guard. But yes, this point guard.
Yes it's tough, it's tough. But he's the top ten,
bottom top ten, probably number ten, no higher, number nine.
And I think what hurts him? Does that mean the rings?

(48:50):
A lack of rings?

Speaker 2 (48:51):
What's hurt him is the meltdowns three well, three to one,
up three.

Speaker 4 (49:01):
To one in a couple of series, and it blews
leads because they were they were they were, they were,
they were opportunities him to to to There was a
couple of years that he could have taken down Golden State,
he could have taken down Santonio and they didn't do it.

Speaker 1 (49:14):
He he could have tangle down Golden State in game six.
When he was with Houston, yep, even more hard and
had the mount down in games.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
Remember the year twenty fifties.

Speaker 4 (49:25):
Best to me, his missed opportunity outside Phoenix when he
went to the finals was walking. His best opportunity to
win a ring was the year before the Wars won
that run where they beat San Antonio. Remember to beat
Santonio in a second round of the SAC Round playoffs,
the first one player it was. Remember I was flying
from New York that day from wedding, okay, and.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Then it lost to Houston.

Speaker 4 (49:48):
Take a round the playoffs up three one loss the series.
That was the best opportunity win title because I think
I think they could have been been Cleveland also too,
so on a on a brace spot.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Here's what I will say when I when I think
of Crisp bol I think as a Clipper. I think
I think as a you know, a fun running gun
team where it was always excitement and it was kind
of like the Showtime Lakers when the only other person

(50:27):
who was a flashy point guard was Jason Williams White Chocolate.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
And wait wait.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
When he was with the Clippers, Yes, all the alley
oops Oh my god, it was exciting. You wanted to
watch the Clippers games to see his passing the dunks.

Speaker 4 (50:52):
Name, the name of the team, the nickname of the team.
I forgot the nickname for the Clippers back then. But
Griffin and Andrea Colle.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
No no no, no, no no no.

Speaker 4 (51:05):
It's not something to do with that. But the alleupes
and stuff they do with time. I don't remember, man,
I gotta look it up in a second.

Speaker 1 (51:13):
I require you to remember of this stuff.

Speaker 2 (51:16):
Yeah. I'm getting old, bro, I'm getting really old. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (51:19):
We asked Chut, what was the Los Angeles Clippers nickname
with Chris Paul and Blake Griffin.

Speaker 2 (51:28):
Let's see what they say here. Slammer lob city. There
you go, thank you city.

Speaker 5 (51:37):
Yes, it was so exciting.

Speaker 2 (51:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
I think you even had Darius Miles still there.

Speaker 4 (51:45):
Yeah, but uh yeah, misopportunity there for Chris Paul. Look,
here's the Chris Paul first Bell Hall of Paper.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
All Time.

Speaker 4 (51:54):
Great, but definitely you know, so you start really manipulating
the list. It gets really it's hard to put him
in the top five, even top sevenpossible.

Speaker 1 (52:05):
You're lying about the.

Speaker 2 (52:09):
Only argument you.

Speaker 4 (52:11):
Can use for him for the top five is two things.
Longevity and everything has gone to they turned around immediately.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
No, No, there is no argument he is not a
top five all timer.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
No, I'm not saying it is. I agree with you.
I'm just saying that if you make an argument, that's
the word we can use.

Speaker 1 (52:26):
No. And this is this is why I called you
out on the Luca trade. You're like, you can make
an argument. This was a smart trade.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
This is why we do podcast. Asshole.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
Come on, there are times when there is no argument
for it. It is just a blatantly retarded thing to do. Right,
He's not top five as a point guard all the time,
just like Nico Collins. She never even been allowed to
have a job after that trade.

Speaker 4 (52:59):
Let me ask you question, Nico Harrison. I'll ask your question.
If Chris Paul got a ring though, does that help
his argument?

Speaker 1 (53:09):
No, because at the if he had gotten a ring
in the last five years, it would not have helped.

Speaker 5 (53:17):
He had stayed so long and became.

Speaker 1 (53:21):
Not even the one, two or three reasons for why
a team would have won a ring.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
Right hmm, okay, fair enough.

Speaker 4 (53:32):
I mean I think he did the argument women a
lot stronger. Have he got a ring say you want
a title twenty fifteen with the Clippers, the team.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
Had had Carl alone won a ring with Los Angeles
at the very end with that had change where he
saw him.

Speaker 2 (53:52):
No, no, no, not at all. No no, no, no, no,
no no no. But but that's that's why I said
that if he went in twenty fifteen with the Clippers, yes.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
Yeah, and the last five years, yeah, in the last
five years, had he won a ring, it would have
been nothing.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
The Sons one, I don't think helps as much. That
was a little bit, but as much.

Speaker 4 (54:13):
I think the clipers want a little more because it
stolen his prime and he was the clear best player
in that team.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
You say the Sons, it makes me thinking Kevin Johnson,
Kevin Johnson doesn't get the respect he deserves as a
point guard.

Speaker 4 (54:27):
He felt pretty quickly after after they went to the
final ninety four ninety three Brothers. So all right, I
want to do a more topic for we go out
here because I like ID one stock this podcast.

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Paul Pierce on his.

Speaker 4 (54:39):
Podcast had a very interesting uh take about Koy Bryant
and as to whether or not he was ever the
face in the league.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
On to play a one minute video quick and we'll
react to it. So the league is gonna be Luka
Doncics possibly. So what were you saying before he said that,
you were saying Mike when the face of the league, Well,
the face of the league?

Speaker 8 (55:02):
I think these guys like, yeah, it was Mike retired
and then it was Kobe was never just like the
face of the league, you know what I'm saying, Like
it was Jordan's Yeah, then like, because think about it,
Kobe was young, for sure, he was young when Michael

(55:23):
was only I guess you could say it was Shack
and then you could probably say like Shack or something
like that.

Speaker 9 (55:30):
Yes, because even to this day, Shack is still one
of the most famous globally people.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
Because the NBA music is He's got a big He
was a big fucking star.

Speaker 9 (55:44):
Bro Like, he was a very famous basketball player to
a level that like none of these young guys can
compare to.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
All Right, all right, I don't normally agree with Paul
person on many things.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
I've been this is the argument I've been having for
years on the show about Kobe, and because when you
told about face of the league, it goes beyond just
being just about being the best player. It's about who
has who when we're promoting the league, are we putting
your face as the number one guy like Jordan was?

(56:22):
Lebron was and still is some degree, you know, Paul Parrison,
I don't think is wrong. Let me tell you why
I'm mapped out for you. So when Jorm retires ninety eight, okay,
it's Shack for a couple of years, right, Shack's best
player on the fucking team, first off, So that's going
to happened, right, There's an opportunity for Kobe to become
a face in the league.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
But then Colorado happens in O three.

Speaker 4 (56:42):
So while Kobe wasn't the best player in basketball public
arguably between two thousand and three and two thousand and
seven to eight, because of Colorado, face in the league
was a mash up between Tim Duncan and then eventel
Lebron James, and from that point on it was Lebron
for a good fifteen even by present day now. So
I don't think Paul Person's wrong at all. So if

(57:03):
not that cod Wright wasn't the best player in basketball,
wasn't deserving of that title, I think the circumstances hurt
that opportunity. And that's why he was never really the
truth facally at any point of his career.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
Thoughts I, I'll go step further. I think he said
it perfectly. And actually it was that Nick Young who
was the other one there you chimed.

Speaker 2 (57:29):
In that was there was Danny Green, and then there
was Nick Young, might have.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Been whoever said Allen Iverson? All right, Alan Iverson and
Shaq were legitimately the face of the league. And the
moment Kobe had that chance, like you said, Colorado happened,
that divisiveness on the breakup of the Lakers, and then

(57:59):
the Colorado shit happening, and then you had Lebron literally
on his come up.

Speaker 10 (58:07):
To the league, even before he came into the league,
Like I would honestly say, Lebron as a senior in
high school was more of a face of the league
than Tim Duncan ever was, because Tim Duncan never wanted
to be the face of the league.

Speaker 1 (58:26):
He just wanted to play, He wanted to show up,
he wanted to win, and he wanted to.

Speaker 5 (58:31):
Go home and do a show, yes, exactly. And yet
you had Lebron, who as a high.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
School senior was getting two million views on ESPN for
his high school games.

Speaker 5 (58:47):
All right, I will argue he stopped being the face
of the league around twenty.

Speaker 1 (58:55):
Fifteen when Lebron, when Curry took over. I feel like
when Curry took over, he legitimately was the face of
the league because it changed the whole way was the
league play, and it changed the whole way unless kids
tried to play basketball.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
I see your argument. I disagree with it, but I
see your argument from that one.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
Maybe that's where it is. But when we're looking at
that time frame, it was Alan Irison and Shack and
there was nobody coming close to that.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
And that's the thing too. Also, when you're the face
of the league, you can't.

Speaker 4 (59:40):
Be polarizing, either in a negative way like Lebron is
polarizing in some degree, but Lebron's polarizing. It's more so weirdo.
And his a pro rating is still pretty high. Yeah,
in spite of the criticism, he gets okay with Kobe.
With Kobe, it was parizing the way where it almost

(01:00:01):
hurt his career. And there are people, there are people
who equally hated him as equally loved him.

Speaker 2 (01:00:09):
So and the items I think was interesting. I never
have thought of that, but ai AI for years two.

Speaker 1 (01:00:17):
Was the culture of the basketball world, I mean as
alute culture. And if we go back to our original
days of this show, we had an or I had
an argument with Manning way back in the day about

(01:00:37):
Lebron versus Manning, or a Lebron versus Kobe, And at
that time I was a massive Lebron guy, massive Lebron guy.
But no, there Kobe never had had face of the league.
And it's almost because I don't think he ever could

(01:00:59):
have had a chance of being the face of the
league because he wanted to be just like Mike. And
when you're trying to be a copy cat, oh the
best player ever, you can never be the face of
the league.

Speaker 5 (01:01:15):
You are a copycat.

Speaker 1 (01:01:17):
You have to have a personality in which you can
be the face of the league.

Speaker 4 (01:01:24):
The funny thing is that it's funny because like when
I remember coming in the league, I was like eighteen.

Speaker 2 (01:01:31):
I didn't like him any reason.

Speaker 4 (01:01:32):
I liked him because he was trying to call him
Michael because he wasn't good enough like be original.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
I just didn't even think he was like Mike until
it took four or five years to be like Mike
and at that time, I was also a Magic fan,
and I fucking hated Shack so much for you to
lak Yeah, we had been to the finals, bro, and
you left to go to the Lakes. No, Strap was

(01:02:05):
the face of the league. He was so dominating. His
personality took over everything.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
Yeah, was w Shack Ai sorta for a year or so.
And then you had Tim Duncan probably a little bit, because.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
No, Tim Duncan was not it. Tim Duncan was a
basketball fans.

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
But you would you but would you say that.

Speaker 4 (01:02:30):
When things start shifting in David Duram started really lifting
the you know, the whole like, you know, you can't
wear certain things anymore, want people kiss me more, more
buttoned up with not that Duncan probably for a year
or two was probably by default.

Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
No. I would literally from two thousand and three to
about two thousand and five, I would say more people
on the street could have identified Sheryl Swoops before they
could have vide five ten Duncan.

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Mhmm, okay, all right, we're.

Speaker 5 (01:03:03):
Talking NBA college or w n B.

Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
A technically college basketball player first, a two time NBA
champion who.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Was that point three time? Actually, so yeah, No, no, No,
I see the point there.

Speaker 5 (01:03:23):
He just was navered the face of the league.

Speaker 2 (01:03:25):
Right and by two thousand and six seven was Lebron Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Yeah, And again when we have this conversation about facing
the league, that's a whole different argument from the best player. Now,
I'll say you that from two thousand and three to
two thousand and eight, it was the Tim Duncan McLay rant.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
It was the Tim dunc'quackbrant.

Speaker 5 (01:03:50):
We're not the best player right now.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
Kobe was doing more stuff in terms of like the
scoring when not but they were winning.

Speaker 4 (01:03:57):
Tim was doing the winning. Kobe was doing the scoring
with a lesser team. So I I yeah, he was
going to face the league, and that's to and that's
my circumstance. I think with coloradosn't happened. Maybe he gets it,
he gets there at some point, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:13):
The only prop five against Paul Piers would be, Hey,
congratulations to not trying to insert your name and to
the face of the league.

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Knowing his ass and when he's done in the past
with the arguments with Dwayne Wade and yeah he.

Speaker 5 (01:04:28):
Was yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:30):
Congratulations for not inserting your your name and to the
face of the league. Exactly why Antoine Walker was a
bigger star at that point for the Boston Celtics than
you were. Dude.

Speaker 4 (01:04:43):
That's why I said that. That's why I said, like, wow,
for once I actually agree with Paul Piers. Yeah, I'm stunned.
So anyway, Zach, one a longer shows you've ever done
in a while. Actually yeah, two beginnings to go like
well close to thirty forty minutes. But you know we're
gonna get into stance. Good week, so, uh, you and
your family have Thanksgiving and we'll talk.

Speaker 1 (01:05:05):
So sir, you have a happy turkey today. Please don't
be a vegetarian dude me.

Speaker 2 (01:05:11):
Oh no, I love my meat. I love my meat.

Speaker 5 (01:05:13):
You know that reminder, she has to cook the turkey.
I know she's gone on that raw ra ship.

Speaker 2 (01:05:21):
But I know we're going to cook it. We're going
to family this week. We got we got home made hand.
That's why we're going to family this weekend.

Speaker 5 (01:05:29):
Sown.

Speaker 2 (01:05:31):
No, I wish we'll see, we'll see, we'll see my
cousin's house. We'll see Zach. Good talk about you go
love your picks and we'll see next week.

Speaker 1 (01:05:39):
Likewise, good luck, you take it.

Speaker 2 (01:05:41):
Easy Man later