December 11, 2025 • 47 mins
Earnest ‘EJ’ Christian is joined by NBA author and analyst Greg Hrinya to discuss the Giannis Antetokounmpo saga in Milwaukee, Rich Paul’s shocking critique of the Lakers, whether the Thunder will win 70 plus wins, and the case for Nikola Jokic in the GOAT conversation.
Greg Hrinya is the author of the “The Five Year Plan: The Nets Tumultuous Journey from New Jersey to Brooklyn”
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Greg Hrinya is the author of the “The Five Year Plan: The Nets Tumultuous Journey from New Jersey to Brooklyn”
📺: WATCH THIS EPISODE
https://youtu.be/LOvoqDYeydE?s...
Follow Earnest ‘EJ’ Christian on Social Media
X:
http://twitter.com/ejchristian... />
TIK TOK
http://www.tiktok.com/@earnestchristian
INSTAGRAM:
http://instagram.com/earnest_c... />
FACEBOOK:
http://facebook.com/earnestchr... />
THREADS
https://www.threads.net/@earnest_christian
Rate and review the Earnestly Speaking Podcast on Apple Podcasts or Spotify
Music performed by Gee Steelio
Podcast Art by Lauren Christian
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
The Earnestly Speaking Podcast is a show that is founded
on free flowing conversation and may it times venture into
mature subjects. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, earnestly speaking, harkus, it's kidness. How much youngan in
New York give MIYAMMI carry? He so much more to
storm my productive flood the street. Opinion nation, God Fama
see oh offen the late, No, he's gonna see me.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Got my hustle.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
On, No limitation, no fans, army your matuchables. Opinionationous dad
never went off season, homemade and checked and notice her
propping my own right.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Supply yourself the comfort. Earnestly speaking, my ego is well faced.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Earnestly speaking, good of people, and no bread. See him
like a hurricane, durable breeze.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Earnestly speakingly.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Good podcast recording furday afternoon about three fifteen pm.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Here join your chorus by our guy Greg Riina, of
of course analyst here on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Greg, get this to work. There we go, Greg, what's
going on, buddy? It's been a couple of weeks, man.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Nothing much, Thanks much for having me. Lots going on
since we last spoke, so it's a good time.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
For lots going on man and in every sport, really
be honest, but the NBA is still trucks on man.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
One topic.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I know we've discussed on the show throughout this the
last few months actually, but now it's kind of dropping
to cuescendo now the honest stuff. It's not a pick
up now, that hasn't been. There's been no formal trade
request yet. But the feel right now in the league
is that we're getting close to him saying he wants
to go.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Now.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Obviously the Bucks are saying no, he's off the table,
this and that, but that don't mean anything. That don't
be often because the minute Yianna doesn't want to leave
is gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I guess my.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Question to you, to keep it simple, do you think
Janis gets traded for a deadline, which at least February.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Yes, yeah, I think that he's gone.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
I think that the uh the idea that he hasn't
issued a formal trade request, He hasn't gone to the
national media and said I want out, But I mean,
I think it's pretty clear that he's told the team
that he has no interest in playing with them anymore,
and I mean, I think that a lot of the
positive reports about him staying in Milwaukee that we saw
over the summer were him trying to protect his legacy,
(02:38):
his image, you know, him saying that up until the
very end, I always wanted to be there, and they
were the ones that chose to get rid of me.
And I think they kept calling his bluff, saying we're
sticking this out to the end, and now you're starting
to see more noise come about. And I mean, to me,
it's not even about anything that's said in the media.
I mean, it's just watching him play. I Mean we
(02:59):
said before the season that he was a favorite for MVP,
and I mean he is. I mean he's been giving
James Harden and Brooklyn vibes playing out there. He's not
moving on the floor. I mean he's basically quitting on
the floor.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, you've very critical, like well out there.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
I mean, they lost the game to the Wizards, and
I mean you could argue, well, it shouldn't be that close,
but had he put in an honest day's effort, they
win that game by fifteen points. I mean he's not
moving on defense. I mean he's he's too good of
a defensive player to just watch guys go to the
rim for layups and if he's not going to give effort.
(03:41):
You know, I know the team doc rivers all those guys.
They're not going to criticize him for it. But people
can see it watching the games and the last injury
that he had. I mean you could even question. I
mean the reports come out from Shams that his agents
are talking to the Bucks as we speak. In three
minutes into the game, he gets hurt. I mean, I
(04:02):
don't know. It's suspicious.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
So I don't think do you think he's hurt. I
think he's embellishing it.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
I think he's embellishing it. I don't think he's gonna
play with them again. Personally, Oh you think.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
He's done because now they extended because they were saying
he was up two to four weeks, and then tot
Rmbers I think early this week said.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
That now it's will be four weeks. Definitely. So some
of the optics that look really weird.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
You were very critical in text two, especially because I
remember when I texted you what was going on.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
And you were you lit him up.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
This is this is disgusting, And I watched I watch
every one of their games because I knew this was
the interesting storyline, and personally, I wanted to see him
stay in Milwaukee because I think it's so rare that
you see a guy spend his whole career with one team.
And I knew that it was sort of reaching a
fork in the road which way it was going to go,
and I'm like, I want to see how this team plays,
(04:48):
and honestly, like if he himself had played better, their
record be better. And I mean like, yes, they're not
maybe a championship contending team, but I mean the game
that he left that he got hurt in, Kevin Porter
Junior and Ryan Rollins combined for forty eight points. Like,
you can't tell me that they don't have any other talent.
You know they had, you know, Miles Turner is solid,
(05:10):
you know, maybe not spectacular, but again, Miles Turner was
a big that Yannis wanted. They went out and got
all the players that Jannie wanted and it didn't work out,
and now he's gonna bolt like they've done everything for him.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
Since they one.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I agree with that.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Personally, I'd send him the Sacramento you know, I mean, like,
I mean, yeah, I mean, I know that this is
a little this trade is a little different, and he's
going to have a lot to say where he goes
because he's only got one year after this year on
his contract.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So this no but no no trade laws though I
mean they can technically some what he wants to, but
they also want to want to do that make himself
look bad also too.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Well.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
No, my issue is that if he is arguably the
best player in the league, if he's giving you a
full day's effort, Let's say he's the third best player.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
In the league.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
You see Michael Bridges, you see Desmond Baine going for
four and five first round picks.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
What is the package going to be like for him?
Speaker 5 (06:07):
And how can you make that trade if he says
I'm not going to resign there so I mean like
you're gonna basically gut your entire franchise to have one
year of him. That doesn't make a lot of sense.
So because I mean, he has an opt out after
next season, which he'll obviously take. And also I think
part of the reason that he gets traded in season
(06:27):
is because his extension number that he can sign in October.
If he gets traded, that extension number goes with him.
If he gets traded, I think after the season, I
think he's got to take a lower amount. So I
think that a lot of dominoes are lining.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
Up for him to be moved. And I think he.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Didn't want to be portrayed as the bad guy, right,
And the Bucks weren't an acquiesced. They're like, hey, with
you playing, we've got a chance to beat anybody on
any given night. And he hasn't played his part, to
be quite frank, and not just the games that he
missed and music with the groin injury, but even when
he was playing, I didn't see a guy who is
(07:05):
one hundred engaged.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
We did a draft, uh they back in April and May.
We did a couple of drafts. We didn't want come
in Durant like hypothetically what what we could fit for him.
We did one for I think another player, but we
did't want for Yan especially too. Now this has before
free agency. This is for the draft, all that stuff.
Now looking at Layland like again, there's been no formal
requestion yet, but we do expect something to be such
(07:31):
to happen, something that agree. I mean, then again, after
what we saw, you know last year with well this
year rather well last season with Luca, but it was
nothing that came out nowhere, and then you got trained
out of nowhere.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Nothing's on the table.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Looking at Layland now in December of twenty twenty five,
you know we're ready a third into the season.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Now, where do you see the fits? Now? What?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
What teams do you see in the mixed room? And
what teams use do you see right now? Are are
in play the teams you see that he fits the
best with. But here obviously he had in New York.
I mean it was mos rotation of New York and
and him in the bucks U doing a summer investment
confirmed by multiple sources now and we'll still hearing now
that New York would be in play for him. But
there are other teams obviously that are being spoken about
(08:17):
that could be in the mix. Are the Are they
the same teams we discussed you think open summer or
you think these new teams at the table now?
Speaker 6 (08:24):
I would say it's pretty much the same teams.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
I think the reason why, and we talked about it,
it's like, if he wanted to leave, why didn't you
re request the trade by the draft?
Speaker 6 (08:33):
I think by the.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
Longer this goes, the more leverage he has in a
dal because if he's only got one year left of control,
it's easier for him to dictate a destination. So if
he had said in June, I want to get traded,
a team like Atlanta or Toronto or whomever might say,
we're going to take the gamble that we have him
for two full seasons and we can convince him to
(08:56):
stay or accomplish something in those two seasons. Now that
he's basically a lame duck going into next year, and
you're looking at like a Kawhi and Toronto situation, that
basically allows him to pick his destination a little more so,
I think New York is probably still in the lead.
I think, you know, in the East, it's probably New
York and Miami. In the West, it's probably San Antonio
(09:16):
and Houston. I mean, you know, I've heard people mention
Oklahoma City, but I mean, like, you know, how realistic
is that? Just like I just don't see Sam Presty
wanting to gut assets for a team that's already a
runaway freight train towards the title. I don't see them
doing anything that's gonna potentially shorten their window. Now, granted,
(09:38):
you could always make the argument look at the Celtics.
You thought that they were gonna win a ton of
championships and then Tatum gets hurt. Now you don't know
where they go, so you don't always know how wide
your window is going to be. So I mean, you
know you have to take that into account too, But
I think you're just looking at a handful of teams.
I mean, you hear teams like Golden State being mentioned,
but it's like if you think about that rationally, like
(09:59):
if honest is looking at signing an extension and competing
for multiple titles, like like steps. Well, there's a couple
of things.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
My guy question that because I heard I saw a
little report today on on X that, uh, the only
player they will consider trading for, you know, trading to
Milwaukee's Draymond Green.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I'm like, well, duh, well no, the report was they
would only ever part with Treymond in a trade for Giannis,
so like they wouldn't trade Raymond for any player unless
it was Yiannis. But I think that the way that
the framework was presented in you know, the research that
I've done, would be like Jimmy Butler would go in
that trade. But I mean, long story short, that doesn't
(10:40):
the trade doesn't make sense from a lot of angles. One,
he's going to a team that's super old. How long
can you expect Curry, who's already dealing with injury issues
the last couple of years, to possibly be in that
role where it could be hit him Jannis and Curry
and figure, oh, we're going to do this.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Let me fear the though, Greg Steph Currey is the
only old guy I'll be okay played with because Steph
Curry is thirty six, thirty seven next year, I think,
but he's still well to me.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
His prime true, But it would just be the two
of them.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
So I mean, if you're getting rid of Butler, like
then you'd have Draymond who can't shoot, and Gianness who
can't shoot, and then teams are going to key up
on on Steph. And also you got to gut your
team in that situation. It's not just them trading Butler
or you know, however it shakes out, they've got to
(11:33):
trade older picks. They're probably moving on from Moody Pajemski.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
I mean, I know they want to move on from Kumngo,
but I mean you.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Know that that that whole that that coming is so
fucking weird.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
Bro.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah, so what I mean from Jannis's standpoint, you have
to look at it and say, what's left with a
team after I get traded? Which is why I think
that he's slow played this is. The longer this goes on,
the more he can say, okay, now, it makes more
sense for the to be the only team to make
a move because if that's where I want to go,
(12:04):
the other teams don't have as much leverage because they
don't want to. You know, if you're Miami and Giannis
is I only want to play in New York, do
you want to trade where hero or you're tradeable first?
Maybe hakes all that so that you can have Giannis
bam a year of Wiggins. You know, that's assuming Wiggins
(12:25):
is into the deal. I mean, to be honest, Milwaukee's
prought any deal that Milwaukee makes, which is why I
think the nixt deal isn't as bad as people would
make it out to be. It's because you're getting Karl
Anthony Towns, but you're also probably getting off of either
Kyle Kuzma his money or Bobby Portis's money. So whoever
they're trading Yanis to, I'd imagine they're trading one of
their undesirable contracts as well. And if you could turn
(12:48):
that into Kat who's a perennial All Star, and o
Gan Andobi, who's also very good, maybe you move Annanobe
to a third team.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Maybe you move both of them.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
You know, I don't know how it sets up for them,
but I mean, if you were to look on and say, Okay,
they have Rollins, Kevin Porter, Junior ogn Andobi, Karl, Anthony Towns,
Miles Turner, like, I mean, it's not a championship team,
but it's also not terrible. That's if they're trying to
like keep their heads above water. If they want to
move in and Obi, you know, I'm sure they could
get a couple first round picks for him and then
(13:17):
they could go in that direction. But I mean, I
don't think that that's the worst deal in the world.
If they're also shedding salary beyond Giannis, I don't think
it's as bad. If he says to them, that's the
only place I'm willing to go, I feel like that's
the most realistic trade. I would also be open to
Miami if I were him, But you have to look
(13:37):
at it and say, he's going to go to a
team that's ready to win a championship right now. Basically
what he's doing is what Kevin Durant's been doing. He
just wants to hot like, he just wants to chase
championships at this point, and I can't blame him. Yeah,
but what I would question to him is that Kevin
Durant did the same thing, And I don't think anybody
respects those championships the way that people respect like Lebron's championship.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And you think the optects work with the rereat look worse.
You go again the Goal State situation.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
You went to a team that already won a championship
with that same core, won seventy three games, were literally
a couple of possessions away from winning back to back titles.
Then you go to that same team that beat you
in the playoffs that you up three one against.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So I think there's a lineage of like things that.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Happened that may look bad more thing else, the honest
the honestly one people look as bad. But I think
what gets me more thing else is that what is
he mad about? What everything he's asked for, he's gotten.
Milwaukee has done everything they could to keep that roster afloat. Okay, guys,
(14:41):
stay can't stay healthy. Hell, he can't stay healthy in
the playoffs. He's missed what in the last four years
of playoffs he's got hurt Tlace twice. You know that's
that's actually hurt them in a chance to win on
the title. I mean, they have won a title with
with him already. That does help his case of him
not getting like landbasted by the fans.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
But everything he's asked.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
For, he's gotten, Okay, is just that the circumstances have
not panned out because of an injury here or this
and that, but because of Milwaukee being aggressive that I
could argue they've been the most aggressive team in the
last five years.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Yeah, And that's why the whole thing is so upsetting
from a just a general fans point of view, because
it's not like Damian Lillard, where Portland said we want
to keep you, but we're going to go in a
totally different direction. Like Milwaukee has done everything possible to
put like veteran championship caliber players around him. You know,
they went out and got Damian Lillard, they went out
(15:39):
and you know, I mean, I know the Kyle Krusma
trade fell apart, but I mean they got to Holliday
at first, you know, to add to him in Middleton.
Then when Holliday was taking a downturn and couldn't be
like a one A or one B anymore, they moved
on to Lillard. And then when Middleton couldn't play anymore,
they moved on to Kruzman.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
I mean, it's.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
They've a brother roster to make you happy.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Yeah, And I think that that's another thing. I mean,
you know, they've been carrying his entire family for years.
You know, from the second that he stepped foot onto
us soil, the Bucks have catered to his every whim
And to see that, you know, they hire Adrian Griffin,
that was, you know, blessed by Honis. Then they didn't
(16:22):
like the way the defense was playing. He blessed the firing.
Then they bring in Doc Rivers. He blesses that, and that.
You know, it's like every move has been run by
him and he's given the ok to every single move.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
And to then see him.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
Not like that the cupboards bear because of his bad
general managing. That's kind of like a sour pill to swallow.
I would say, not just for Bucks fans, but you know,
just as like a casual NBA observer. You know, that's
not a great look for him. And I think what
he wanted to avoid in this whole thing was being
(16:57):
portrayed as a villain. That's why in the offseason, sorry,
you can't. You can't be the good guy on your
way out of town, which is what he was trying
to do, which is why he went on you know,
podcasts in the summer saying I want to win another
championship with the Bucks and all that, basically to say
I did my part. They didn't do their part. Blame them,
(17:18):
don't blame me. But the reality is that if he's
on the floor and playing hard and playing well, you know, Okay,
maybe they're a five seed, maybe they are a six seed.
Maybe that's not that exciting to him, but they should
be a lot better than they are now. And I'd
say a lot of the reason that they aren't is
just won his injuries, which have been cropping up more
over the years. And also I wouldn't say he's played
(17:39):
that well. So I mean, you know, to your point,
he's you know, a lot of it falls on him,
and I guess, you know, maybe this isn't and this
is an admission for him, but he can't carry a
team on his own anymore. He needs another star to
help him. He needs somebody to take the load.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
Off of him.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
And that's fine, but that's not something that you hear
Jokic saying. You know, So, I mean, like, don't expect
to be put in those same categories if you're going
to look for the easy way to a title.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Any predictions on where he goes, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
I mean, I'm still gonna say the Knicks because my
guess would be that that's where he tries to force
his way to and his representation, and the Knicks are
going to say, look, if he's not going to resign
anywhere else, this is your only option or lose or
keep it, keep an unhappy player for a year and
a half, and then lose him for nothing in free agency. So,
(18:31):
I mean, you know, I feel like he's sort of
holding them hostage a little bit. With that, I think
Miami is probably a long shot for it. I wouldn't
rule him out at all. I just feel like in
Damian Lillard's case, where he only wanted to go to Miami,
he had four years left on his deal. In Kevin
Durant's case, when he wanted to go to Miami or Phoenix,
he had four years left on his deal. Giannis this
(18:54):
summer is going to be heading into the last year
of his contract. It's like a lane duck status. So
it's different in terms of where he's going to dictate going.
He doesn't have a no trade clause, but the price
that it's going to take to acquire him is going
to be so exorbitant that it doesn't make sense for
a team to, Like I've heard Atlanta mentioned a lot
because they have that pick that belongs to kind of
(19:17):
both the Bucks and the Pelicans, you know, the who
the Hawks retain the right to pick. Whoever's pick is better.
So if you know, the Bucks win the lottery, it
goes to the Hawks. If the Pelicans win, the lottery
goes to the Hawks. But it's like, if you're the Hawks,
why are you giving up that pick and maybe two
or three young guys along with other picks. If he
(19:39):
says I'm not resigning there, so now you're giving up
you know, possibly a shot at Cambuser or aj Debonsa
or Darren Peterson for one year of Giannis, which you know,
if you look at the way Oklahoma City looks right now, like,
I don't know that it really makes sense for a
lot of teams to go all in on him given
that I feel like you're going to draw dead once
you get to the fire hills.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Anyways, So yeah, yeah, I don't know if you follow
sports media as a whole, like all the ins and
outs of sports media. But Max Cullman's back after four
years away. Remember him and Seeming. They spent on a
big breakup on First Take, and then ESPN did layoffs
couple years ago and he was one of the people
got laid off. He he was on a not compete
for a while. But now he's back. He's doing a
(20:21):
podcast with Rich Paul. They locked that this week. First
episode dropped this week and Rich Paul came blazing and
had some critique on the Lakers who started sat the
Earth grade I think a sixteen seven or sixteen eight
right now currently as as the recording and the number
two in the West currently, but Rich Paul still does
(20:42):
not believe they are contenders. Here's here's his a clip from.
Speaker 7 (20:46):
That that podcast do too much, and well, well that's
not on him.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I mean, sitting in the corner is not going to
do much. But yeah, I think.
Speaker 7 (20:57):
You know, in order, like I person, you don't think
the Lakers are good enough to be contenders right now?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Not right now.
Speaker 8 (21:03):
When you say contenders, what do you mean.
Speaker 7 (21:07):
I don't think they have enough to get to the
Western Conference front. I don't think they have enough to
get to really contend.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
From that person, so, OKAC isn't a class by themselves
very much. They won a million games last year, they
won the title. They have one loss and what twenty
three in one now, right, so it's crazy.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
They're really good.
Speaker 8 (21:27):
And I always thought even last year it's like, wait,
they're this good and they're going to get Chet Holmgren
at a certain point, like that's.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
A lot, right, that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
And here they are.
Speaker 8 (21:36):
They're rolling now, they're confident because they just won the championship.
They're maturing, they're getting better. So okay, put them aside
for a second. You think the Lakers don't fit in
with the rest of the pack. They got the second
best record in the conference.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
Yeah, but we've seen that before.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
That that doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 7 (21:49):
I think when you look at look, we've seen it, right,
We've seen when you have the talent up top that
they have, those guys can win.
Speaker 8 (21:59):
Games, Lebron and Luca, but also Austin's.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
He's taking a step.
Speaker 7 (22:06):
But then things start to really when you when you
come to back half of the season, where guys are
really now, they have their conditioning, they're scouting different. It's
one thing. Then when you go into the playoffs, we've
seen last year they ran into athleticism and length they struggle.
(22:28):
So when you look at it now, athleticism, length, shooting speed, right,
because now can the Lakers play fast?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
All right, it's kind of shocking to hear from him,
given who he is, given who he represents, you would
think you'd be a little bit of Homer because that's
Lebron's boy, his best friend, childhood, all that stuff. But
I listened to the Tire podcast and I'll be honest
with you, I look great start withstanding phenomenal they've they've
we'll reach my exportation to what I thought they'd be
(23:02):
this this year.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Having said that, he's not wrong in my opinion, your.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
Thoughts, Yeah, I think he's one hundred percent right. I
think there's two things going on there. One, he's right,
so he's just giving an honest assessment of it too.
I think he's probably working Lebron's angle a little bit, saying,
you know, maybe if they move Reeves in like a
bigger deal, can they use their picks and Reeves to
acquire a player like a Yiannis? You know, like that's
(23:30):
maybe that he's looking for, trying to build up Austin
Reeves a little bit and say, oh, you know, if
my client, you know, because.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
This is arguably Lebron's last year in LA.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
But there's also a good situation for Lebron because he
doesn't have to carry the heavy workload. He's got Luca
carrying it. But when you get to playoffs, as Rich
Paul mentioned, how are Luca and Austin Reeves going to
be going.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
To guard other backcourts? You know?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
I don't think they are, So I don't think that's
the perfect marriage from that standpoint. I think what they
really need is like a the star caliber player on
the wing, you know, or you know, like a Yannis,
And I think that's probably what they're angling for.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
That they have a package for that unless Yanna says
this is one of the two teams I want to
go to, right, But I think that he's He's right
in the sense that as it is now, I think
it's been a little smoking mirrors the way that they've played.
I think they've had kind of a fortunate schedule. And
you know, I think that they're a very good team,
(24:30):
borderline Western Conference Finals type of team, But I mean,
they're nowhere near the class of Okac. And then you
look at it and say, okay, I could see the
way Denver could give Oka See a run for their money.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
How does how do the Lakers give Oka se a
run for their money?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
And I don't know that you can illustrate that. I
think with Denver you can at least say they're deeper
than they were last year. They still had Yokachu's unguardable
and maybe the fact that they have eight nine guys
who can play versus last year where they basically had
six guys who can play. Maybe that's to Denver's advantage.
But for the Lakers, you look at it and say,
as their roster stands now, I don't really see a
(25:06):
way that they're contending with with okay See or with
Denver or with Houston for that matter.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And I'll be honest you, I'm not even saying the
last night's result health Spurs team.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I questioned that, Yeah, because the Spurs have been phenomenal
so far up the gate, and that's what Wenby missing
what at least twelve games already.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Yeah, I mean the issue for Wemby, maybe for his
whole career, is going to be how much can he
stay on the floor right, Which is why if I'm
san Antonio, I probably look at like Giannis or any
other big name that comes available, I probably look at
that differently.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You know, I think he's the biggest walk card. I
think the biggest walk card in the honestakes, honestly, san Antonio.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Yeah, But I mean if I were them, I'm not
parting with with Castle or with uh with Dylan Harper,
I would look at it and say, we don't know
if we can count on women Yama. We've got two
fantastic guards. We don't want to break that up for
an older player who's already breaking down. And then in
our window, you know, if I were the Bucks and
I could get my hands on Dylan Harper. Would I
(26:06):
do that deal, sure, or step on Castle in pieces
and whatnot. But if I'm san Antonio, even though maybe
they're not at that level just yet, I would probably
stay the course and not overspend for an older guy
because I don't want to give up any of those
those young guards were there.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Now we're calling you Onis Oldow. Yeah he's what thirty one?
I think?
Speaker 5 (26:31):
Yeah, he's thirty one, But I'm talking about like injury
history too, in.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
His interhistory and have we discussed on the show in
the past, his game, unless it's going to add a
premier game, be consistent premier game like Katie does happen
in his like thirties.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Steph Curry also too. I might asking to be as
good as a shooter, but can you can you be?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know, I see more jury Butler than I see
Kevin Durant and Jannis as it's older. So to your point,
thirty one is cool, Yeah, thirty one, but that's if
you don't have a shooting. At some point, your body
will betray you and it's starting to do little by little.
Do that now with you haven't said it, but the Lakers, though, Look,
I don't want to insult Laker fans here, guy, I know,
(27:11):
to the podcast and then then.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Give me shit. Oh, Luca, here's the deal.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You ain't even close to Okay, see right now, But
it's dumb in the second because what they're doing is historic. Okay,
I don't think you'll be Denver. I think Yolkas is
playing on his mind right now.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Okay. And they're better than they were last year. And
as La Jamal Murray's.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Healthy, that'll be fine. Houston is you know, it's funny.
Houston was a story coming to the year. And they're
quietly doing pretty playing pretty well quietly.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
That's kind of scary. So that's three things right there.
You mentioned. And I still think san Antonio healthy, it's
still better than the Lakers. So are they on? The
Lakers are top sixteen in the Western Conference.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yes, I'll give you that because that was a question,
and to me that's actually a win because we were
questioning that enter the year.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
You know. Now it's like, oh, you know what, they
are top six, but that to me, that.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Top four is locked up. Okay, that fours the four
in my opinion right now. Un that's something changes, the
injury happens all that, But yeah, there are nowhere in
the conversation of okay see and Denver and in't even
say Houston.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah, And the one thing I want to add about
Denver that they're doing all this without two starters, so
they're missing Alan Gordon, who's a borderline All Star on
his own right, and Christian Brown. So I mean the
depth that we've advocated for all off season when we
talked about who would the contenders be, that death hasn't
even been there yet. So I think the idea is
you get those guys back and you're talking about a
different a little bit different landscape.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
I should also know on OKAC.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
And I know we're going to get to them, but ye, yeah,
they they have played the easiest schedule in the league
so far, just based on percentage points. You know we
did this last year or every time I would come on,
I would talk about strength of schedule, so you know
their strength of schedule when you look at it with
you know, fifty seven games left currently is the hardest. Now,
obviously they're better than every other team, but I will
(29:01):
say that I don't see them finishing eighty one and
one either.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
No, now here's a question. I'm I'm glad to mention
that on this part, you can do this, man, you
can do this. They're twenty four to one as recording. Okay,
they just had the Warriors record from when they went
seventy three and nine back in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, Okay,
on twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Rather do they remember they won? They won sixty eight
last year. People get that they that was the quietest
sixty eight wins. I think I'm seeing my entire life
watching basketball. Does Oka se get the seventy yes or no?
Speaker 5 (29:33):
I came on the show last time and said no.
I would say if I had to put my money on,
and now I'd probably say yes. But I mean again,
I think you're probably talking anywhere between sixty eight and
seventy two or seventy three. You know, I think that
they still have I don't see them beating the Warriors record,
if that's the question.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
I think the Vegas.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Odds are like plus five hundred to beat the record.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
At best point. Oh really that's not good odds?
Speaker 5 (29:59):
Then no, it's not good gods, And I think again,
part of that is because you know, again going back
to my strength of schedule thing, they have played a
very soft schedule. Yeah, and look, that's not their fault.
They're beating up. I mean, they won last night's game
by forty nine points. So that's not to say that
they wouldn't have run rough shot over.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
Anybody they played.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
But I do think that their schedule is stiffened at
some point, and then you have to wonder, you have
three games and four nights, you're flying in and out of,
you know, multiple cities. Maybe Shay has to miss a
game here or there. Maybe chet Holmgren has to miss
a couple of weeks for you know, a quad strain
or something like that. I think the NBA season catches
up with everybody at some point. I know they missed
Jalen Williams for a long time.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
That's saying that.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
The one thing I will say about the start is that, yes,
that is scheduled, but also they had a second player
for most that stretch, and they're also winning those games
the way you're supposed to.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
True. True.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Yeah, So I mean I guess if I had to
say today, would I say they would win seventy or
seventy one year games?
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Yeah? Probably.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
I would probably change what I said a couple of
weeks ago and said no to yes, but I don't
think it. I still don't think they're gonna beat the
Warriors record. I don't think they're gonna go like seventy
five and seven.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I'm still prehens up on them getting the seventy three.
I think they get the seventy because again, they took
this little two wins away last year from getting there,
so not like it seems four and they're better and
they're at the right age here. They are what the
Warriors were in the mid odds, like they were, you know,
young enough. But the difference, I think too also is
that they don't there's not as much any made distractions.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Steph Curry was a star by then.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
By by then, Steph coorr was a mainstream star by
the time he got to the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen season.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Okay, SGA.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
While he has a title, while he has MVPA all
that stuff, it still feels like he's not, you know,
he's not main stream. He's not on every commercial away
because Steph Crey was. And I think that's a good
thing because I think in a sense, it keeps you hungry,
it keeps you locked in, distracted by all the other things.
(32:01):
Answering things around your team, around your career. I think
that's a good thing, honestly.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
And also I think that their team is so good
that it's not just him, you know. I mean, like
last year, I was a huge advocate of him winning MVP.
I think this year, you see with how good the
rest of his team is playing that like he did.
He did actually miss a game the other night, they
still won without him, So I mean, you know, I
think that they've got such a machine going there that
it's not just one guy that's you know, propelling all
(32:30):
its So obviously they couldn't win a series against the
Nuggets without him.
Speaker 6 (32:34):
You know, obviously he'd be the catalyst for that series.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
But I'm just talking about on a Tuesday night, if
you're playing Sacramento on the road, they could have aj
Mitchell easily fill in for him and they can go
in there and win that team by twenty. So you know,
they've got such a good infrastructure built there that it's
beyond just him At this point. I think that it's
not like Yokic, where if you took Yokic out of Denver,
(32:58):
you're looking at a G League team year basically, you know,
I think that they still have a really good foundation
in place that you could say, okay a j Mitchell,
Jalen Williams, chet Holmgren. I mean, Hartenstein's not even playing
like you can tab five or six guys and say
go out and win me a game. They could win
you a game. That's not going to work in the playoffs,
but I think that that works very well for random
(33:20):
NBA regular season games.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Yeah, yeah, totally go through there.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I want to think of you out of here now
people this podcast business podcast, you know, we actually covered this,
this exact conversation on my show I did with my
dad and my brother about two weeks ago about Nicole.
I want to bring some up to you now because
in this year when I saw the video was actually
set up for you.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
To talk about and then ended up getting my brother
and my father. But I want to give you play
a clip here.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
It's from the Zach Low podcast what he had on
stan Van Gundy to my Nicola.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Jokic and basically.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
That Low confessing and say, listen, this guy might be
the best offensive player you have ever seen in the league.
And then Stanven Gunny came in and from the top
rope and even gave you even not crazier take, but
even hotter take than and Zach Will. Here's the clip
from the from Zach Will pocast.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
A couple weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Front office said this to me at Summer League, and
I just hadn't heard it verbalized like this.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Nik Kilcic might be the best offensive player in the
history of the NBA. I think that's on the table
now for me.
Speaker 9 (34:22):
Well, he might be the best player in the history
of the NBA. Here here's the thing, like my son
says this all the time.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Wow, every sport.
Speaker 9 (34:30):
He's more of a baseball guy. Because I understand the
thought that you compare players to how well they did
in the era they played in. But the evolution of
athletes is we can probably say that the best twenty
basketball players in history have probably played in the last
(34:52):
twenty years.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Zach, Well, what a take. And obviously, you know you
go on social media, everybody's like.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Well, all the Jordan fans, Lebron fans, Kareem Magic, everybody's
don't you can't say that miss all the time. He's
not Jordan, he's not Lebron's all that. But the thing is,
I some of years, who is doing this medium. Now
I'm learning to take a step back and read it.
He leaves forget the branding, forget forget even the rings too.
(35:22):
I mean, the rings do matter. We have an argument
about these things, but forget those things a second. Does
this well as a basketball player raw to the point.
I think Zach Low's point is actually very, very very real.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I think Van.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Gunny's a little hot takish. But we took a step
back once again.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Is it really silly? I don't know your thoughts.
Speaker 6 (35:44):
You think, I don't know that it's silly.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
I think that I agree with Zach Lowe's point. I
think you could very easily make the case and maybe
even say definitively he's the best offensive players that ever
played the game. I just don't know the same argument
that I had for not winning MVP last year. I
don't know that you can say that a guy who's
as mediocre defender as he is can be the greatest
player of all time. When you look at MJ for example,
(36:09):
who's a dominant defensive player in addition to being you know,
the sniper, you know the great.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
His defense is underrated.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Grady was an offense outside of the wall, but he's
the dominant defensive player also field top.
Speaker 5 (36:20):
Of that, and also like Lebron in his prime obviously
not the last five to seven years, but you know,
Lebron in his prime, when he was between twenty five
and thirty two, was also a dominant defensive player. So said,
he doesn't have enough left in the tank to give
that anymore. But I think when you look at some
of those other players, now, if you want to put
him up against Russell and say, well, Bill Russell was
(36:41):
a dominant defensive player, but he was just average on offense,
I guess you could probably put Jokic, you know, and
again that means you're ranking him at five or six
or you know whatever all times.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
So it's like that's not a slight on him.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
But I would say Jokic is the offense, So maybe
Bill Russell was the defense.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
Jokic is. Again, I think Zach Loow said it perfectly.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
I think that he's probably the best offensive player or
right up there with you know a few other players
in history. You know, I know that will ted numbers,
but I mean, I don't think he's a great free
throw shooter, and.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
You know, I don't think he's got the touch and skill.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Ultimately, you know from a shooting standpoint that Jokis has
But I mean, look, he's in lofty company. If he
retired tomorrow, you're probably putting him in the top ten.
So I mean just based on his skills all time?
Speaker 6 (37:30):
Yeah, yeah, probably.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
So okay, So, like, I don't know if you do lists.
I love doing lists.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
I've had a list created for at least twenty years,
and it's obviously my top ten to fifteen list has
been adjusted, you know, threety years. With the rise Lebron,
the rise of Curry and all that stuff, there's no
doubt Nicole Jokic blindly is already in the top twenty list,
probably top fifteen this point. Okay, you know we when
(37:58):
we all have lists, we do list with differ reasons
and and what what the criterias like?
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Are rings? How how do you weigh rings? I know
I weigh rings.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
It's not the Beyon and all because if it wants
to beyond all, then Bill Russell is the more woman
a bullet.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
But the fact that matter is is that that that
that can just be the case of why you doing
list like that?
Speaker 4 (38:17):
But there's no question that lok Jokic.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Looking from a fear and balanced conversation, he's definitely a
tough of the player at this point now all time.
And then he gets one more even one more ring.
Now we have many conversations now about him from in
the top ten. Now again it gets complicated because like
Sga you spoke about earlier, he's not very mainstream, mainly
(38:44):
because he was a one too so then playing play ball,
and unfortunately these things kind of hurt because most especially
by NBA fans, that they're so big on the fixation
of branding and fixation of like you're in my face
all the time. You know that a guy I had
Tim Duncan who's won so many rings, Kobe and it's
literally a raal stuff some time Jordan for six.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
And zero in the finals.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
You know, we be kind of downlaying Duncan because he
was not in our face all the time. But the
fact of matter is he put the work in his
lunch pil guy that called the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
What uh what Zach Lowell said, He's probably top three
certainly right now, just this coming in blindly, he's.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Definitely top three office player of all time.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Arguabling him on one, I think Jordan's the only guy
you're looking at is like, okay, well but again, Yokic
just range, Yoki just touch his post game.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
It's pretty much one to one.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
It's close to one to once again to get but
and so so all time rankings. He would definitely need
one more ring to really make an argument for top ten.
Because here's the thing with my list. Every guy in
my top ten has multiple rings. Okay, and if I
mistake out, i't think anybody has two. Elijah almost my
(40:00):
top ten for a long time. He's down a little
bit now, like twelve eleven to twelve over, maybe he
has two rings. There was not anybody in my top
ten that has any less than three rings, like being
the guy I believe it is the only one that
has three rings.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Oh well, no, I'm sorry, wils this only guy has
two rings on my top ten.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
But Yokas has been so good and he's padded, he's
padded his stats, and he's also so good on that
side of the ball that even to the ring, you
can make a case from him saying well, because that's slide.
Because he's been so good as often as a player
that you can't deny it either. So I don't know
where you have any lists. I know he's in my
(40:40):
top top fifteen. I don't know where I've loved him
a list.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
I don't believe.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
To me, honestly, these lists are funny because like we
debate top ten all the time, and yet to me,
as I got older, the really fun debates, honestly.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Are eleventh to twenty five.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
That's more fun for me because because there are guys
on that list and took twenty five that never want
to ring before. You know what I'm saying, that got
Charles Barkley, Elgim Baylor could be on that list, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
So what if you have a list, Greg, Yeah, I
mean would you put him.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
The top five? I mean it's pretty easy. I mean
you're talking about Jordan lebron Kareem Magic and then you're
looking at Russell Wilt. I mean that's six guys right there. Yeah,
probably in that range. I mean, you know, if his
career ended today, you know, nine to twelve, you know somewhere.
If we're talking about Jokic again, I mean again, I
know he's only got one ring, but.
Speaker 6 (41:36):
You know I would see a lot of those teams.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
You know, a lot of those players who won multiple
rings also had a better supporting cast than him, So
does he get punished for that? But then he also
make the argument he's not a great defensive player either,
whereas you look at a guy like Tim Duncan and
it's like he was dominant both ends and won four titles.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
So I mean, you know, it's uh five titles, five
t excuse me, h yeah, almost six six?
Speaker 5 (42:05):
Yeah, yeah, if not for Ray Allen, I guess, but yeah,
thank god, Yeah, I'm sorry. But yeah, So I mean,
does he get credit for playing both ends? Like, yeah,
he probably should, And you know, maybe it is recency biased.
I would say that Nikole Jokic is a better offensive
player than Duncan was, but Duncan was such a good
defender too and a winner, so it's like, how do
(42:28):
you move above that? But I mean, again, we're splitting
hairs here, and we're also talking. You know, I don't
think that it's knocking a guy, be it Duncan, be
it Jokic, or be it whomever, for saying a guy
is the eleventh best player of all time or the
ninth best player of all time.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
So Jokic is like Eliza wa this conversation, but gets
more credit for me than Jokich just because again two
way player elive one is arguably the greatest two way
player in history the game, arguably like totally top three
for me because he was domin on almost on the board.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
Who's actually extra we've nomin on the defensive defensical side
as well too. Also, So.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Like I don't know, like okay, so like you have
not you said you have yoga time to twelve? Would
you play him at a Koby yes or no?
Speaker 6 (43:11):
Oh? I guess today? Probably not. I guess, okay, Steph
what else Steph pro?
Speaker 5 (43:26):
I say no, but I'd probably put him ahead of
Steph just because I feel like, you know again, you're
probably talking about two rings again again when you're adding
Durant and that whole thing, Like you know, am I
gonna punish Jokic for not jumping?
Speaker 6 (43:41):
You know again? Not all championships, I would say, are
created equal.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
True, I think that Lebron's Heat championships don't carry as
much weight as his Cleveland championship. If Durant won a
title this year with Houston, that would carry more weight
than his Golden State Championships.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
So you know, I think everything is a case by
case basis.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yeah, it's a good point there. I gotta do my list.
I gotta do my list on eleventh and twenty five.
Yoka is definitely my top fifteen. He's definitely in the
Elijah won Shack conversation. But yeah, it's interesting because like
supporting Casto, especially like your next best player is Jamal.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Murray, who is pretty good. Yeah, but he ain't pipping.
He ain't worthy of Kareem. He's not. You know.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
The only other guy that has to comp to that
is really is uh is Uh Elijah one, who's headst
player was Kai director at the tail.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
His tail is a tail end.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
It was at his a prime phone call coming in
one second, right, all right, sorry wife this call. So,
like I said, I'm gonna do a update my list
again eleven twenty five and kind of see where we
stand on that one. But it is interesting debate, man,
And you know, I know a lot of old headers
get offended by these things. I'm considered old headed now
at this point. I'm forty five. But I've also watched
(44:55):
Jordan's peak, so I have I have a perspective of
how good Jordan was, that perspective of Lebron's be because
I watched.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Lebron speak as all too so. But it is interesting.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I got a Yokic who's very quiet this this like
like like Tim Duncan's put his head down.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I'll tell you one guy who may be very complicated
in the end if he wins more titles, Sga. SGA
might be complicated because like Duncan, like Yo gets quiet,
put he's winning titles now and he's doing dominant fashion
and it's not like he's getting.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
A superstar off the streets. They're building around.
Speaker 6 (45:26):
Him this core.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
So that's gonna be interesting to see how SGA is
like he gets uh, you know, perspected in the years
to come.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
Honestly, it's still so early in his journey that it is.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
It is.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
It's hard to say in ten years where we'll look
at him.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
But those numbers right now, those numbers are compared to Jordan,
And I know what, the NBA is different today because
the hand checking rule is not a longer thing anymore
in comparison, But he's still putting on a thirty plus
a game, Like it's like it's nothing and they're winning
and they're winning titles now, so the argument now it
can be us against them because I don't know.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
So we'll see. The NBA is a very.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Fascinating league and the way it grows and the way
that the game's growing through the years, it makes for
an interesting conversation. This is why love That's why I
love this podcasts because at through the years of discussing
these things, it things change and professional change and it's
a it's great. So anyway, Greg, thank you as always
coming to pod. It was great conversations always. We'll be
have you on soon of course, as always anything want
(46:26):
a plug before you got he or anything.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Nope, nothing to plug.
Speaker 5 (46:29):
Just gonna keep watching the games and to see over
the next couple of weeks have us.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
Are you digging the NBA Cup?
Speaker 6 (46:36):
I mean I'm watching it.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
I mean, you know, anytime you can get good teams
playing against each other, I'm not going to turn it down.
But you know, at the end of the day, I
don't think that teams are changing strategy much. I mean,
the Lakers won the first year, the Bucks won it
last year, and I don't think that was the saving
grace for either one of them in any way.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
So I'll say as much. I'm watching it because it's
a it's a game. I don't look at his NBA
Cup to mean to me. The NBA Cup for me
is another regular choosing game, so I'm watching by default.
Speaker 6 (47:05):
Yep. Yeah, I think that's a fair way to put it.
And I look at it the same.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
So there you go. Good job.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
Greg is always yep, thanks for having me on. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
You got it, brother,
The Earnestly Speaking Podcast is a show that is founded
on free flowing conversation and may it times venture into
mature subjects. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, earnestly speaking, harkus, it's kidness. How much youngan in
New York give MIYAMMI carry? He so much more to
storm my productive flood the street. Opinion nation, God Fama
see oh offen the late, No, he's gonna see me.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
Got my hustle.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
On, No limitation, no fans, army your matuchables. Opinionationous dad
never went off season, homemade and checked and notice her
propping my own right.
Speaker 4 (00:47):
Supply yourself the comfort. Earnestly speaking, my ego is well faced.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Earnestly speaking, good of people, and no bread. See him
like a hurricane, durable breeze.
Speaker 1 (00:58):
Earnestly speakingly.
Speaker 4 (01:08):
Good podcast recording furday afternoon about three fifteen pm.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Here join your chorus by our guy Greg Riina, of
of course analyst here on the podcast.
Speaker 4 (01:19):
Greg, get this to work. There we go, Greg, what's
going on, buddy? It's been a couple of weeks, man.
Speaker 5 (01:24):
Nothing much, Thanks much for having me. Lots going on
since we last spoke, so it's a good time.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
For lots going on man and in every sport, really
be honest, but the NBA is still trucks on man.
Speaker 4 (01:34):
One topic.
Speaker 3 (01:35):
I know we've discussed on the show throughout this the
last few months actually, but now it's kind of dropping
to cuescendo now the honest stuff. It's not a pick
up now, that hasn't been. There's been no formal trade
request yet. But the feel right now in the league
is that we're getting close to him saying he wants
to go.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Now.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Obviously the Bucks are saying no, he's off the table,
this and that, but that don't mean anything. That don't
be often because the minute Yianna doesn't want to leave
is gonna happen.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
I guess my.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
Question to you, to keep it simple, do you think
Janis gets traded for a deadline, which at least February.
Speaker 6 (02:13):
Yes, yeah, I think that he's gone.
Speaker 5 (02:15):
I think that the uh the idea that he hasn't
issued a formal trade request, He hasn't gone to the
national media and said I want out, But I mean,
I think it's pretty clear that he's told the team
that he has no interest in playing with them anymore,
and I mean, I think that a lot of the
positive reports about him staying in Milwaukee that we saw
over the summer were him trying to protect his legacy,
(02:38):
his image, you know, him saying that up until the
very end, I always wanted to be there, and they
were the ones that chose to get rid of me.
And I think they kept calling his bluff, saying we're
sticking this out to the end, and now you're starting
to see more noise come about. And I mean, to me,
it's not even about anything that's said in the media.
I mean, it's just watching him play. I Mean we
(02:59):
said before the season that he was a favorite for MVP,
and I mean he is. I mean he's been giving
James Harden and Brooklyn vibes playing out there. He's not
moving on the floor. I mean he's basically quitting on
the floor.
Speaker 4 (03:15):
Yeah, you've very critical, like well out there.
Speaker 5 (03:19):
I mean, they lost the game to the Wizards, and
I mean you could argue, well, it shouldn't be that close,
but had he put in an honest day's effort, they
win that game by fifteen points. I mean he's not
moving on defense. I mean he's he's too good of
a defensive player to just watch guys go to the
rim for layups and if he's not going to give effort.
(03:41):
You know, I know the team doc rivers all those guys.
They're not going to criticize him for it. But people
can see it watching the games and the last injury
that he had. I mean you could even question. I
mean the reports come out from Shams that his agents
are talking to the Bucks as we speak. In three
minutes into the game, he gets hurt. I mean, I
(04:02):
don't know. It's suspicious.
Speaker 4 (04:04):
So I don't think do you think he's hurt. I
think he's embellishing it.
Speaker 6 (04:07):
I think he's embellishing it. I don't think he's gonna
play with them again. Personally, Oh you think.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
He's done because now they extended because they were saying
he was up two to four weeks, and then tot
Rmbers I think early this week said.
Speaker 4 (04:17):
That now it's will be four weeks. Definitely. So some
of the optics that look really weird.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
You were very critical in text two, especially because I
remember when I texted you what was going on.
Speaker 4 (04:25):
And you were you lit him up.
Speaker 5 (04:28):
This is this is disgusting, And I watched I watch
every one of their games because I knew this was
the interesting storyline, and personally, I wanted to see him
stay in Milwaukee because I think it's so rare that
you see a guy spend his whole career with one team.
And I knew that it was sort of reaching a
fork in the road which way it was going to go,
and I'm like, I want to see how this team plays,
(04:48):
and honestly, like if he himself had played better, their
record be better. And I mean like, yes, they're not
maybe a championship contending team, but I mean the game
that he left that he got hurt in, Kevin Porter
Junior and Ryan Rollins combined for forty eight points. Like,
you can't tell me that they don't have any other talent.
You know they had, you know, Miles Turner is solid,
(05:10):
you know, maybe not spectacular, but again, Miles Turner was
a big that Yannis wanted. They went out and got
all the players that Jannie wanted and it didn't work out,
and now he's gonna bolt like they've done everything for him.
Speaker 6 (05:23):
Since they one.
Speaker 4 (05:23):
I agree with that.
Speaker 5 (05:25):
Personally, I'd send him the Sacramento you know, I mean, like,
I mean, yeah, I mean, I know that this is
a little this trade is a little different, and he's
going to have a lot to say where he goes
because he's only got one year after this year on
his contract.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
So this no but no no trade laws though I
mean they can technically some what he wants to, but
they also want to want to do that make himself
look bad also too.
Speaker 4 (05:49):
Well.
Speaker 5 (05:50):
No, my issue is that if he is arguably the
best player in the league, if he's giving you a
full day's effort, Let's say he's the third best player.
Speaker 6 (05:56):
In the league.
Speaker 5 (05:57):
You see Michael Bridges, you see Desmond Baine going for
four and five first round picks.
Speaker 6 (06:05):
What is the package going to be like for him?
Speaker 5 (06:07):
And how can you make that trade if he says
I'm not going to resign there so I mean like
you're gonna basically gut your entire franchise to have one
year of him. That doesn't make a lot of sense.
So because I mean, he has an opt out after
next season, which he'll obviously take. And also I think
part of the reason that he gets traded in season
(06:27):
is because his extension number that he can sign in October.
If he gets traded, that extension number goes with him.
If he gets traded, I think after the season, I
think he's got to take a lower amount. So I
think that a lot of dominoes are lining.
Speaker 6 (06:40):
Up for him to be moved. And I think he.
Speaker 5 (06:42):
Didn't want to be portrayed as the bad guy, right,
And the Bucks weren't an acquiesced. They're like, hey, with
you playing, we've got a chance to beat anybody on
any given night. And he hasn't played his part, to
be quite frank, and not just the games that he
missed and music with the groin injury, but even when
he was playing, I didn't see a guy who is
(07:05):
one hundred engaged.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
We did a draft, uh they back in April and May.
We did a couple of drafts. We didn't want come
in Durant like hypothetically what what we could fit for him.
We did one for I think another player, but we
did't want for Yan especially too. Now this has before
free agency. This is for the draft, all that stuff.
Now looking at Layland like again, there's been no formal
requestion yet, but we do expect something to be such
(07:31):
to happen, something that agree. I mean, then again, after
what we saw, you know last year with well this
year rather well last season with Luca, but it was
nothing that came out nowhere, and then you got trained
out of nowhere.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Nothing's on the table.
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Looking at Layland now in December of twenty twenty five,
you know we're ready a third into the season.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
Now, where do you see the fits? Now? What?
Speaker 3 (07:55):
What teams do you see in the mixed room? And
what teams use do you see right now? Are are
in play the teams you see that he fits the
best with. But here obviously he had in New York.
I mean it was mos rotation of New York and
and him in the bucks U doing a summer investment
confirmed by multiple sources now and we'll still hearing now
that New York would be in play for him. But
there are other teams obviously that are being spoken about
(08:17):
that could be in the mix. Are the Are they
the same teams we discussed you think open summer or
you think these new teams at the table now?
Speaker 6 (08:24):
I would say it's pretty much the same teams.
Speaker 5 (08:26):
I think the reason why, and we talked about it,
it's like, if he wanted to leave, why didn't you
re request the trade by the draft?
Speaker 6 (08:33):
I think by the.
Speaker 5 (08:34):
Longer this goes, the more leverage he has in a
dal because if he's only got one year left of control,
it's easier for him to dictate a destination. So if
he had said in June, I want to get traded,
a team like Atlanta or Toronto or whomever might say,
we're going to take the gamble that we have him
for two full seasons and we can convince him to
(08:56):
stay or accomplish something in those two seasons. Now that
he's basically a lame duck going into next year, and
you're looking at like a Kawhi and Toronto situation, that
basically allows him to pick his destination a little more so,
I think New York is probably still in the lead.
I think, you know, in the East, it's probably New
York and Miami. In the West, it's probably San Antonio
(09:16):
and Houston. I mean, you know, I've heard people mention
Oklahoma City, but I mean, like, you know, how realistic
is that? Just like I just don't see Sam Presty
wanting to gut assets for a team that's already a
runaway freight train towards the title. I don't see them
doing anything that's gonna potentially shorten their window. Now, granted,
(09:38):
you could always make the argument look at the Celtics.
You thought that they were gonna win a ton of
championships and then Tatum gets hurt. Now you don't know
where they go, so you don't always know how wide
your window is going to be. So I mean, you
know you have to take that into account too, But
I think you're just looking at a handful of teams.
I mean, you hear teams like Golden State being mentioned,
but it's like if you think about that rationally, like
(09:59):
if honest is looking at signing an extension and competing
for multiple titles, like like steps. Well, there's a couple
of things.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
My guy question that because I heard I saw a
little report today on on X that, uh, the only
player they will consider trading for, you know, trading to
Milwaukee's Draymond Green.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
I'm like, well, duh, well no, the report was they
would only ever part with Treymond in a trade for Giannis,
so like they wouldn't trade Raymond for any player unless
it was Yiannis. But I think that the way that
the framework was presented in you know, the research that
I've done, would be like Jimmy Butler would go in
that trade. But I mean, long story short, that doesn't
(10:40):
the trade doesn't make sense from a lot of angles. One,
he's going to a team that's super old. How long
can you expect Curry, who's already dealing with injury issues
the last couple of years, to possibly be in that
role where it could be hit him Jannis and Curry
and figure, oh, we're going to do this.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Let me fear the though, Greg Steph Currey is the
only old guy I'll be okay played with because Steph
Curry is thirty six, thirty seven next year, I think,
but he's still well to me.
Speaker 6 (11:09):
His prime true, But it would just be the two
of them.
Speaker 5 (11:12):
So I mean, if you're getting rid of Butler, like
then you'd have Draymond who can't shoot, and Gianness who
can't shoot, and then teams are going to key up
on on Steph. And also you got to gut your
team in that situation. It's not just them trading Butler
or you know, however it shakes out, they've got to
(11:33):
trade older picks. They're probably moving on from Moody Pajemski.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
I mean, I know they want to move on from Kumngo,
but I mean you.
Speaker 3 (11:40):
Know that that that whole that that coming is so
fucking weird.
Speaker 6 (11:44):
Bro.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
Yeah, so what I mean from Jannis's standpoint, you have
to look at it and say, what's left with a
team after I get traded? Which is why I think
that he's slow played this is. The longer this goes on,
the more he can say, okay, now, it makes more
sense for the to be the only team to make
a move because if that's where I want to go,
(12:04):
the other teams don't have as much leverage because they
don't want to. You know, if you're Miami and Giannis
is I only want to play in New York, do
you want to trade where hero or you're tradeable first?
Maybe hakes all that so that you can have Giannis
bam a year of Wiggins. You know, that's assuming Wiggins
(12:25):
is into the deal. I mean, to be honest, Milwaukee's
prought any deal that Milwaukee makes, which is why I
think the nixt deal isn't as bad as people would
make it out to be. It's because you're getting Karl
Anthony Towns, but you're also probably getting off of either
Kyle Kuzma his money or Bobby Portis's money. So whoever
they're trading Yanis to, I'd imagine they're trading one of
their undesirable contracts as well. And if you could turn
(12:48):
that into Kat who's a perennial All Star, and o
Gan Andobi, who's also very good, maybe you move Annanobe
to a third team.
Speaker 6 (12:54):
Maybe you move both of them.
Speaker 5 (12:57):
You know, I don't know how it sets up for them,
but I mean, if you were to look on and say, Okay,
they have Rollins, Kevin Porter, Junior ogn Andobi, Karl, Anthony Towns,
Miles Turner, like, I mean, it's not a championship team,
but it's also not terrible. That's if they're trying to
like keep their heads above water. If they want to
move in and Obi, you know, I'm sure they could
get a couple first round picks for him and then
(13:17):
they could go in that direction. But I mean, I
don't think that that's the worst deal in the world.
If they're also shedding salary beyond Giannis, I don't think
it's as bad. If he says to them, that's the
only place I'm willing to go, I feel like that's
the most realistic trade. I would also be open to
Miami if I were him, But you have to look
(13:37):
at it and say, he's going to go to a
team that's ready to win a championship right now. Basically
what he's doing is what Kevin Durant's been doing. He
just wants to hot like, he just wants to chase
championships at this point, and I can't blame him. Yeah,
but what I would question to him is that Kevin
Durant did the same thing, And I don't think anybody
respects those championships the way that people respect like Lebron's championship.
Speaker 4 (13:59):
And you think the optects work with the rereat look worse.
You go again the Goal State situation.
Speaker 3 (14:04):
You went to a team that already won a championship
with that same core, won seventy three games, were literally
a couple of possessions away from winning back to back titles.
Then you go to that same team that beat you
in the playoffs that you up three one against.
Speaker 4 (14:19):
So I think there's a lineage of like things that.
Speaker 3 (14:21):
Happened that may look bad more thing else, the honest
the honestly one people look as bad. But I think
what gets me more thing else is that what is
he mad about? What everything he's asked for, he's gotten.
Milwaukee has done everything they could to keep that roster afloat. Okay, guys,
(14:41):
stay can't stay healthy. Hell, he can't stay healthy in
the playoffs. He's missed what in the last four years
of playoffs he's got hurt Tlace twice. You know that's
that's actually hurt them in a chance to win on
the title. I mean, they have won a title with
with him already. That does help his case of him
not getting like landbasted by the fans.
Speaker 4 (15:00):
But everything he's asked.
Speaker 3 (15:02):
For, he's gotten, Okay, is just that the circumstances have
not panned out because of an injury here or this
and that, but because of Milwaukee being aggressive that I
could argue they've been the most aggressive team in the
last five years.
Speaker 5 (15:17):
Yeah, And that's why the whole thing is so upsetting
from a just a general fans point of view, because
it's not like Damian Lillard, where Portland said we want
to keep you, but we're going to go in a
totally different direction. Like Milwaukee has done everything possible to
put like veteran championship caliber players around him. You know,
they went out and got Damian Lillard, they went out
(15:39):
and you know, I mean, I know the Kyle Krusma
trade fell apart, but I mean they got to Holliday
at first, you know, to add to him in Middleton.
Then when Holliday was taking a downturn and couldn't be
like a one A or one B anymore, they moved
on to Lillard. And then when Middleton couldn't play anymore,
they moved on to Kruzman.
Speaker 6 (15:57):
I mean, it's.
Speaker 4 (15:57):
They've a brother roster to make you happy.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
Yeah, And I think that that's another thing. I mean,
you know, they've been carrying his entire family for years.
You know, from the second that he stepped foot onto
us soil, the Bucks have catered to his every whim
And to see that, you know, they hire Adrian Griffin,
that was, you know, blessed by Honis. Then they didn't
(16:22):
like the way the defense was playing. He blessed the firing.
Then they bring in Doc Rivers. He blesses that, and that.
You know, it's like every move has been run by
him and he's given the ok to every single move.
Speaker 6 (16:34):
And to then see him.
Speaker 5 (16:36):
Not like that the cupboards bear because of his bad
general managing. That's kind of like a sour pill to swallow.
I would say, not just for Bucks fans, but you know,
just as like a casual NBA observer. You know, that's
not a great look for him. And I think what
he wanted to avoid in this whole thing was being
(16:57):
portrayed as a villain. That's why in the offseason, sorry,
you can't. You can't be the good guy on your
way out of town, which is what he was trying
to do, which is why he went on you know,
podcasts in the summer saying I want to win another
championship with the Bucks and all that, basically to say
I did my part. They didn't do their part. Blame them,
(17:18):
don't blame me. But the reality is that if he's
on the floor and playing hard and playing well, you know, Okay,
maybe they're a five seed, maybe they are a six seed.
Maybe that's not that exciting to him, but they should
be a lot better than they are now. And I'd
say a lot of the reason that they aren't is
just won his injuries, which have been cropping up more
over the years. And also I wouldn't say he's played
(17:39):
that well. So I mean, you know, to your point,
he's you know, a lot of it falls on him,
and I guess, you know, maybe this isn't and this
is an admission for him, but he can't carry a
team on his own anymore. He needs another star to
help him. He needs somebody to take the load.
Speaker 6 (17:55):
Off of him.
Speaker 5 (17:56):
And that's fine, but that's not something that you hear
Jokic saying. You know, So, I mean, like, don't expect
to be put in those same categories if you're going
to look for the easy way to a title.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
Any predictions on where he goes, Yeah.
Speaker 5 (18:10):
I mean, I'm still gonna say the Knicks because my
guess would be that that's where he tries to force
his way to and his representation, and the Knicks are
going to say, look, if he's not going to resign
anywhere else, this is your only option or lose or
keep it, keep an unhappy player for a year and
a half, and then lose him for nothing in free agency. So,
(18:31):
I mean, you know, I feel like he's sort of
holding them hostage a little bit. With that, I think
Miami is probably a long shot for it. I wouldn't
rule him out at all. I just feel like in
Damian Lillard's case, where he only wanted to go to Miami,
he had four years left on his deal. In Kevin
Durant's case, when he wanted to go to Miami or Phoenix,
he had four years left on his deal. Giannis this
(18:54):
summer is going to be heading into the last year
of his contract. It's like a lane duck status. So
it's different in terms of where he's going to dictate going.
He doesn't have a no trade clause, but the price
that it's going to take to acquire him is going
to be so exorbitant that it doesn't make sense for
a team to, Like I've heard Atlanta mentioned a lot
because they have that pick that belongs to kind of
(19:17):
both the Bucks and the Pelicans, you know, the who
the Hawks retain the right to pick. Whoever's pick is better.
So if you know, the Bucks win the lottery, it
goes to the Hawks. If the Pelicans win, the lottery
goes to the Hawks. But it's like, if you're the Hawks,
why are you giving up that pick and maybe two
or three young guys along with other picks. If he
(19:39):
says I'm not resigning there, so now you're giving up
you know, possibly a shot at Cambuser or aj Debonsa
or Darren Peterson for one year of Giannis, which you know,
if you look at the way Oklahoma City looks right now, like,
I don't know that it really makes sense for a
lot of teams to go all in on him given
that I feel like you're going to draw dead once
you get to the fire hills.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
Anyways, So yeah, yeah, I don't know if you follow
sports media as a whole, like all the ins and
outs of sports media. But Max Cullman's back after four
years away. Remember him and Seeming. They spent on a
big breakup on First Take, and then ESPN did layoffs
couple years ago and he was one of the people
got laid off. He he was on a not compete
for a while. But now he's back. He's doing a
(20:21):
podcast with Rich Paul. They locked that this week. First
episode dropped this week and Rich Paul came blazing and
had some critique on the Lakers who started sat the
Earth grade I think a sixteen seven or sixteen eight
right now currently as as the recording and the number
two in the West currently, but Rich Paul still does
(20:42):
not believe they are contenders. Here's here's his a clip from.
Speaker 7 (20:46):
That that podcast do too much, and well, well that's
not on him.
Speaker 4 (20:52):
I mean, sitting in the corner is not going to
do much. But yeah, I think.
Speaker 7 (20:57):
You know, in order, like I person, you don't think
the Lakers are good enough to be contenders right now?
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Not right now.
Speaker 8 (21:03):
When you say contenders, what do you mean.
Speaker 7 (21:07):
I don't think they have enough to get to the
Western Conference front. I don't think they have enough to
get to really contend.
Speaker 8 (21:14):
From that person, so, OKAC isn't a class by themselves
very much. They won a million games last year, they
won the title. They have one loss and what twenty
three in one now, right, so it's crazy.
Speaker 4 (21:27):
They're really good.
Speaker 8 (21:27):
And I always thought even last year it's like, wait,
they're this good and they're going to get Chet Holmgren
at a certain point, like that's.
Speaker 6 (21:32):
A lot, right, that's a lot.
Speaker 4 (21:34):
And here they are.
Speaker 8 (21:36):
They're rolling now, they're confident because they just won the championship.
They're maturing, they're getting better. So okay, put them aside
for a second. You think the Lakers don't fit in
with the rest of the pack. They got the second
best record in the conference.
Speaker 7 (21:47):
Yeah, but we've seen that before.
Speaker 4 (21:48):
That that doesn't mean anything.
Speaker 7 (21:49):
I think when you look at look, we've seen it, right,
We've seen when you have the talent up top that
they have, those guys can win.
Speaker 8 (21:59):
Games, Lebron and Luca, but also Austin's.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
He's taking a step.
Speaker 7 (22:06):
But then things start to really when you when you
come to back half of the season, where guys are
really now, they have their conditioning, they're scouting different. It's
one thing. Then when you go into the playoffs, we've
seen last year they ran into athleticism and length they struggle.
(22:28):
So when you look at it now, athleticism, length, shooting speed, right,
because now can the Lakers play fast?
Speaker 4 (22:40):
I don't think so.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
All right, it's kind of shocking to hear from him,
given who he is, given who he represents, you would
think you'd be a little bit of Homer because that's
Lebron's boy, his best friend, childhood, all that stuff. But
I listened to the Tire podcast and I'll be honest
with you, I look great start withstanding phenomenal they've they've
we'll reach my exportation to what I thought they'd be
(23:02):
this this year.
Speaker 4 (23:03):
Having said that, he's not wrong in my opinion, your.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
Thoughts, Yeah, I think he's one hundred percent right. I
think there's two things going on there. One, he's right,
so he's just giving an honest assessment of it too.
I think he's probably working Lebron's angle a little bit, saying,
you know, maybe if they move Reeves in like a
bigger deal, can they use their picks and Reeves to
acquire a player like a Yiannis? You know, like that's
(23:30):
maybe that he's looking for, trying to build up Austin
Reeves a little bit and say, oh, you know, if
my client, you know, because.
Speaker 6 (23:36):
This is arguably Lebron's last year in LA.
Speaker 5 (23:39):
But there's also a good situation for Lebron because he
doesn't have to carry the heavy workload. He's got Luca
carrying it. But when you get to playoffs, as Rich
Paul mentioned, how are Luca and Austin Reeves going to
be going.
Speaker 6 (23:51):
To guard other backcourts? You know?
Speaker 4 (23:53):
I don't.
Speaker 5 (23:53):
I don't think they are, So I don't think that's
the perfect marriage from that standpoint. I think what they
really need is like a the star caliber player on
the wing, you know, or you know, like a Yannis,
And I think that's probably what they're angling for.
Speaker 6 (24:08):
I don't know.
Speaker 5 (24:09):
That they have a package for that unless Yanna says
this is one of the two teams I want to
go to, right, But I think that he's He's right
in the sense that as it is now, I think
it's been a little smoking mirrors the way that they've played.
I think they've had kind of a fortunate schedule. And
you know, I think that they're a very good team,
(24:30):
borderline Western Conference Finals type of team, But I mean,
they're nowhere near the class of Okac. And then you
look at it and say, okay, I could see the
way Denver could give Oka See a run for their money.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
How does how do the Lakers give Oka se a
run for their money?
Speaker 5 (24:44):
And I don't know that you can illustrate that. I
think with Denver you can at least say they're deeper
than they were last year. They still had Yokachu's unguardable
and maybe the fact that they have eight nine guys
who can play versus last year where they basically had
six guys who can play. Maybe that's to Denver's advantage.
But for the Lakers, you look at it and say,
as their roster stands now, I don't really see a
(25:06):
way that they're contending with with okay See or with
Denver or with Houston for that matter.
Speaker 4 (25:12):
And I'll be honest you, I'm not even saying the
last night's result health Spurs team.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
I questioned that, Yeah, because the Spurs have been phenomenal
so far up the gate, and that's what Wenby missing
what at least twelve games already.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Yeah, I mean the issue for Wemby, maybe for his
whole career, is going to be how much can he
stay on the floor right, Which is why if I'm
san Antonio, I probably look at like Giannis or any
other big name that comes available, I probably look at
that differently.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
You know, I think he's the biggest walk card. I
think the biggest walk card in the honestakes, honestly, san Antonio.
Speaker 5 (25:44):
Yeah, But I mean if I were them, I'm not
parting with with Castle or with uh with Dylan Harper,
I would look at it and say, we don't know
if we can count on women Yama. We've got two
fantastic guards. We don't want to break that up for
an older player who's already breaking down. And then in
our window, you know, if I were the Bucks and
I could get my hands on Dylan Harper. Would I
(26:06):
do that deal, sure, or step on Castle in pieces
and whatnot. But if I'm san Antonio, even though maybe
they're not at that level just yet, I would probably
stay the course and not overspend for an older guy
because I don't want to give up any of those
those young guards were there.
Speaker 4 (26:26):
Now we're calling you Onis Oldow. Yeah he's what thirty one?
I think?
Speaker 5 (26:31):
Yeah, he's thirty one, But I'm talking about like injury
history too, in.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
His interhistory and have we discussed on the show in
the past, his game, unless it's going to add a
premier game, be consistent premier game like Katie does happen
in his like thirties.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
Steph Curry also too. I might asking to be as
good as a shooter, but can you can you be?
Speaker 3 (26:51):
You know, I see more jury Butler than I see
Kevin Durant and Jannis as it's older. So to your point,
thirty one is cool, Yeah, thirty one, but that's if
you don't have a shooting. At some point, your body
will betray you and it's starting to do little by little.
Do that now with you haven't said it, but the Lakers, though, Look,
I don't want to insult Laker fans here, guy, I know,
(27:11):
to the podcast and then then.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
Give me shit. Oh, Luca, here's the deal.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
You ain't even close to Okay, see right now, But
it's dumb in the second because what they're doing is historic. Okay,
I don't think you'll be Denver. I think Yolkas is
playing on his mind right now.
Speaker 4 (27:28):
Okay. And they're better than they were last year. And
as La Jamal Murray's.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Healthy, that'll be fine. Houston is you know, it's funny.
Houston was a story coming to the year. And they're
quietly doing pretty playing pretty well quietly.
Speaker 4 (27:40):
That's kind of scary. So that's three things right there.
You mentioned. And I still think san Antonio healthy, it's
still better than the Lakers. So are they on? The
Lakers are top sixteen in the Western Conference.
Speaker 3 (27:52):
Yes, I'll give you that because that was a question,
and to me that's actually a win because we were
questioning that enter the year.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
You know. Now it's like, oh, you know what, they
are top six, but that to me, that.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Top four is locked up. Okay, that fours the four
in my opinion right now. Un that's something changes, the
injury happens all that, But yeah, there are nowhere in
the conversation of okay see and Denver and in't even
say Houston.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Yeah, And the one thing I want to add about
Denver that they're doing all this without two starters, so
they're missing Alan Gordon, who's a borderline All Star on
his own right, and Christian Brown. So I mean the
depth that we've advocated for all off season when we
talked about who would the contenders be, that death hasn't
even been there yet. So I think the idea is
you get those guys back and you're talking about a
different a little bit different landscape.
Speaker 6 (28:35):
I should also know on OKAC.
Speaker 5 (28:38):
And I know we're going to get to them, but ye, yeah,
they they have played the easiest schedule in the league
so far, just based on percentage points. You know we
did this last year or every time I would come on,
I would talk about strength of schedule, so you know
their strength of schedule when you look at it with
you know, fifty seven games left currently is the hardest. Now,
obviously they're better than every other team, but I will
(29:01):
say that I don't see them finishing eighty one and
one either.
Speaker 3 (29:05):
No, now here's a question. I'm I'm glad to mention
that on this part, you can do this, man, you
can do this. They're twenty four to one as recording. Okay,
they just had the Warriors record from when they went
seventy three and nine back in twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen, Okay,
on twenty sixteen.
Speaker 4 (29:20):
Rather do they remember they won? They won sixty eight
last year. People get that they that was the quietest
sixty eight wins. I think I'm seeing my entire life
watching basketball. Does Oka se get the seventy yes or no?
Speaker 5 (29:33):
I came on the show last time and said no.
I would say if I had to put my money on,
and now I'd probably say yes. But I mean again,
I think you're probably talking anywhere between sixty eight and
seventy two or seventy three. You know, I think that
they still have I don't see them beating the Warriors record,
if that's the question.
Speaker 6 (29:50):
I think the Vegas.
Speaker 5 (29:52):
Odds are like plus five hundred to beat the record.
Speaker 4 (29:56):
At best point. Oh really that's not good odds?
Speaker 5 (29:59):
Then no, it's not good gods, And I think again,
part of that is because you know, again going back
to my strength of schedule thing, they have played a
very soft schedule. Yeah, and look, that's not their fault.
They're beating up. I mean, they won last night's game
by forty nine points. So that's not to say that
they wouldn't have run rough shot over.
Speaker 6 (30:20):
Anybody they played.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
But I do think that their schedule is stiffened at
some point, and then you have to wonder, you have
three games and four nights, you're flying in and out of,
you know, multiple cities. Maybe Shay has to miss a
game here or there. Maybe chet Holmgren has to miss
a couple of weeks for you know, a quad strain
or something like that. I think the NBA season catches
up with everybody at some point. I know they missed
Jalen Williams for a long time.
Speaker 4 (30:42):
That's saying that.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
The one thing I will say about the start is that, yes,
that is scheduled, but also they had a second player
for most that stretch, and they're also winning those games
the way you're supposed to.
Speaker 6 (30:54):
True. True.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
Yeah, So I mean I guess if I had to
say today, would I say they would win seventy or
seventy one year games?
Speaker 6 (31:00):
Yeah? Probably.
Speaker 5 (31:00):
I would probably change what I said a couple of
weeks ago and said no to yes, but I don't
think it. I still don't think they're gonna beat the
Warriors record. I don't think they're gonna go like seventy
five and seven.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I'm still prehens up on them getting the seventy three.
I think they get the seventy because again, they took
this little two wins away last year from getting there,
so not like it seems four and they're better and
they're at the right age here. They are what the
Warriors were in the mid odds, like they were, you know,
young enough. But the difference, I think too also is
that they don't there's not as much any made distractions.
Speaker 4 (31:33):
Steph Curry was a star by then.
Speaker 3 (31:34):
By by then, Steph coorr was a mainstream star by
the time he got to the twenty fifteen twenty sixteen season.
Speaker 4 (31:39):
Okay, SGA.
Speaker 3 (31:41):
While he has a title, while he has MVPA all
that stuff, it still feels like he's not, you know,
he's not main stream. He's not on every commercial away
because Steph Crey was. And I think that's a good
thing because I think in a sense, it keeps you hungry,
it keeps you locked in, distracted by all the other things.
(32:01):
Answering things around your team, around your career. I think
that's a good thing, honestly.
Speaker 6 (32:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
And also I think that their team is so good
that it's not just him, you know. I mean, like
last year, I was a huge advocate of him winning MVP.
I think this year, you see with how good the
rest of his team is playing that like he did.
He did actually miss a game the other night, they
still won without him, So I mean, you know, I
think that they've got such a machine going there that
it's not just one guy that's you know, propelling all
(32:30):
its So obviously they couldn't win a series against the
Nuggets without him.
Speaker 6 (32:34):
You know, obviously he'd be the catalyst for that series.
Speaker 5 (32:38):
But I'm just talking about on a Tuesday night, if
you're playing Sacramento on the road, they could have aj
Mitchell easily fill in for him and they can go
in there and win that team by twenty. So you know,
they've got such a good infrastructure built there that it's
beyond just him At this point. I think that it's
not like Yokic, where if you took Yokic out of Denver,
(32:58):
you're looking at a G League team year basically, you know,
I think that they still have a really good foundation
in place that you could say, okay a j Mitchell,
Jalen Williams, chet Holmgren. I mean, Hartenstein's not even playing
like you can tab five or six guys and say
go out and win me a game. They could win
you a game. That's not going to work in the playoffs,
but I think that that works very well for random
(33:20):
NBA regular season games.
Speaker 4 (33:23):
Yeah, yeah, totally go through there.
Speaker 3 (33:25):
I want to think of you out of here now
people this podcast business podcast, you know, we actually covered this,
this exact conversation on my show I did with my
dad and my brother about two weeks ago about Nicole.
I want to bring some up to you now because
in this year when I saw the video was actually
set up for you.
Speaker 4 (33:42):
To talk about and then ended up getting my brother
and my father. But I want to give you play
a clip here.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
It's from the Zach Low podcast what he had on
stan Van Gundy to my Nicola.
Speaker 4 (33:51):
Jokic and basically.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
That Low confessing and say, listen, this guy might be
the best offensive player you have ever seen in the league.
And then Stanven Gunny came in and from the top
rope and even gave you even not crazier take, but
even hotter take than and Zach Will. Here's the clip
from the from Zach Will pocast.
Speaker 4 (34:09):
A couple weeks ago.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
Front office said this to me at Summer League, and
I just hadn't heard it verbalized like this.
Speaker 4 (34:16):
Nik Kilcic might be the best offensive player in the
history of the NBA. I think that's on the table
now for me.
Speaker 9 (34:22):
Well, he might be the best player in the history
of the NBA. Here here's the thing, like my son
says this all the time.
Speaker 4 (34:28):
Wow, every sport.
Speaker 9 (34:30):
He's more of a baseball guy. Because I understand the
thought that you compare players to how well they did
in the era they played in. But the evolution of
athletes is we can probably say that the best twenty
basketball players in history have probably played in the last
(34:52):
twenty years.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Zach, Well, what a take. And obviously, you know you
go on social media, everybody's like.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Well, all the Jordan fans, Lebron fans, Kareem Magic, everybody's
don't you can't say that miss all the time. He's
not Jordan, he's not Lebron's all that. But the thing is,
I some of years, who is doing this medium. Now
I'm learning to take a step back and read it.
He leaves forget the branding, forget forget even the rings too.
(35:22):
I mean, the rings do matter. We have an argument
about these things, but forget those things a second. Does
this well as a basketball player raw to the point.
I think Zach Low's point is actually very, very very real.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
I think Van.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Gunny's a little hot takish. But we took a step
back once again.
Speaker 4 (35:42):
Is it really silly? I don't know your thoughts.
Speaker 6 (35:44):
You think, I don't know that it's silly.
Speaker 5 (35:47):
I think that I agree with Zach Lowe's point. I
think you could very easily make the case and maybe
even say definitively he's the best offensive players that ever
played the game. I just don't know the same argument
that I had for not winning MVP last year. I
don't know that you can say that a guy who's
as mediocre defender as he is can be the greatest
player of all time. When you look at MJ for example,
(36:09):
who's a dominant defensive player in addition to being you know,
the sniper, you know the great.
Speaker 4 (36:15):
His defense is underrated.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
Grady was an offense outside of the wall, but he's
the dominant defensive player also field top.
Speaker 5 (36:20):
Of that, and also like Lebron in his prime obviously
not the last five to seven years, but you know,
Lebron in his prime, when he was between twenty five
and thirty two, was also a dominant defensive player. So said,
he doesn't have enough left in the tank to give
that anymore. But I think when you look at some
of those other players, now, if you want to put
him up against Russell and say, well, Bill Russell was
(36:41):
a dominant defensive player, but he was just average on offense,
I guess you could probably put Jokic, you know, and
again that means you're ranking him at five or six
or you know whatever all times.
Speaker 6 (36:51):
So it's like that's not a slight on him.
Speaker 5 (36:52):
But I would say Jokic is the offense, So maybe
Bill Russell was the defense.
Speaker 6 (36:58):
Jokic is. Again, I think Zach Loow said it perfectly.
Speaker 5 (37:02):
I think that he's probably the best offensive player or
right up there with you know a few other players
in history. You know, I know that will ted numbers,
but I mean, I don't think he's a great free
throw shooter, and.
Speaker 6 (37:13):
You know, I don't think he's got the touch and skill.
Speaker 5 (37:16):
Ultimately, you know from a shooting standpoint that Jokis has
But I mean, look, he's in lofty company. If he
retired tomorrow, you're probably putting him in the top ten.
So I mean just based on his skills all time?
Speaker 6 (37:30):
Yeah, yeah, probably.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
So okay, So, like, I don't know if you do lists.
I love doing lists.
Speaker 3 (37:35):
I've had a list created for at least twenty years,
and it's obviously my top ten to fifteen list has
been adjusted, you know, threety years. With the rise Lebron,
the rise of Curry and all that stuff, there's no
doubt Nicole Jokic blindly is already in the top twenty list,
probably top fifteen this point. Okay, you know we when
(37:58):
we all have lists, we do list with differ reasons
and and what what the criterias like?
Speaker 4 (38:04):
Are rings? How how do you weigh rings? I know
I weigh rings.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
It's not the Beyon and all because if it wants
to beyond all, then Bill Russell is the more woman
a bullet.
Speaker 4 (38:11):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
But the fact that matter is is that that that
that can just be the case of why you doing
list like that?
Speaker 4 (38:17):
But there's no question that lok Jokic.
Speaker 3 (38:22):
Looking from a fear and balanced conversation, he's definitely a
tough of the player at this point now all time.
And then he gets one more even one more ring.
Now we have many conversations now about him from in
the top ten. Now again it gets complicated because like
Sga you spoke about earlier, he's not very mainstream, mainly
(38:44):
because he was a one too so then playing play ball,
and unfortunately these things kind of hurt because most especially
by NBA fans, that they're so big on the fixation
of branding and fixation of like you're in my face
all the time. You know that a guy I had
Tim Duncan who's won so many rings, Kobe and it's
literally a raal stuff some time Jordan for six.
Speaker 4 (39:04):
And zero in the finals.
Speaker 3 (39:08):
You know, we be kind of downlaying Duncan because he
was not in our face all the time. But the
fact of matter is he put the work in his
lunch pil guy that called the whole thing.
Speaker 4 (39:16):
No doubt.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
What uh what Zach Lowell said, He's probably top three
certainly right now, just this coming in blindly, he's.
Speaker 4 (39:23):
Definitely top three office player of all time.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Arguabling him on one, I think Jordan's the only guy
you're looking at is like, okay, well but again, Yokic
just range, Yoki just touch his post game.
Speaker 4 (39:36):
It's pretty much one to one.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
It's close to one to once again to get but
and so so all time rankings. He would definitely need
one more ring to really make an argument for top ten.
Because here's the thing with my list. Every guy in
my top ten has multiple rings. Okay, and if I
mistake out, i't think anybody has two. Elijah almost my
(40:00):
top ten for a long time. He's down a little
bit now, like twelve eleven to twelve over, maybe he
has two rings. There was not anybody in my top
ten that has any less than three rings, like being
the guy I believe it is the only one that
has three rings.
Speaker 4 (40:14):
Oh well, no, I'm sorry, wils this only guy has
two rings on my top ten.
Speaker 3 (40:19):
But Yokas has been so good and he's padded, he's
padded his stats, and he's also so good on that
side of the ball that even to the ring, you
can make a case from him saying well, because that's slide.
Because he's been so good as often as a player
that you can't deny it either. So I don't know
where you have any lists. I know he's in my
(40:40):
top top fifteen. I don't know where I've loved him
a list.
Speaker 4 (40:44):
I don't believe.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
To me, honestly, these lists are funny because like we
debate top ten all the time, and yet to me,
as I got older, the really fun debates, honestly.
Speaker 4 (40:53):
Are eleventh to twenty five.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
That's more fun for me because because there are guys
on that list and took twenty five that never want
to ring before. You know what I'm saying, that got
Charles Barkley, Elgim Baylor could be on that list, you
know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (41:08):
So what if you have a list, Greg, Yeah, I
mean would you put him.
Speaker 5 (41:13):
The top five? I mean it's pretty easy. I mean
you're talking about Jordan lebron Kareem Magic and then you're
looking at Russell Wilt. I mean that's six guys right there. Yeah,
probably in that range. I mean, you know, if his
career ended today, you know, nine to twelve, you know somewhere.
If we're talking about Jokic again, I mean again, I
know he's only got one ring, but.
Speaker 6 (41:36):
You know I would see a lot of those teams.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
You know, a lot of those players who won multiple
rings also had a better supporting cast than him, So
does he get punished for that? But then he also
make the argument he's not a great defensive player either,
whereas you look at a guy like Tim Duncan and
it's like he was dominant both ends and won four titles.
Speaker 6 (41:56):
So I mean, you know, it's uh five titles, five
t excuse me, h yeah, almost six six?
Speaker 5 (42:05):
Yeah, yeah, if not for Ray Allen, I guess, but yeah,
thank god, Yeah, I'm sorry. But yeah, So I mean,
does he get credit for playing both ends? Like, yeah,
he probably should, And you know, maybe it is recency biased.
I would say that Nikole Jokic is a better offensive
player than Duncan was, but Duncan was such a good
defender too and a winner, so it's like, how do
(42:28):
you move above that? But I mean, again, we're splitting
hairs here, and we're also talking. You know, I don't
think that it's knocking a guy, be it Duncan, be
it Jokic, or be it whomever, for saying a guy
is the eleventh best player of all time or the
ninth best player of all time.
Speaker 3 (42:44):
So Jokic is like Eliza wa this conversation, but gets
more credit for me than Jokich just because again two
way player elive one is arguably the greatest two way
player in history the game, arguably like totally top three
for me because he was domin on almost on the board.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
Who's actually extra we've nomin on the defensive defensical side
as well too. Also, So.
Speaker 3 (43:04):
Like I don't know, like okay, so like you have
not you said you have yoga time to twelve? Would
you play him at a Koby yes or no?
Speaker 6 (43:11):
Oh? I guess today? Probably not. I guess, okay, Steph
what else Steph pro?
Speaker 5 (43:26):
I say no, but I'd probably put him ahead of
Steph just because I feel like, you know again, you're
probably talking about two rings again again when you're adding
Durant and that whole thing, Like you know, am I
gonna punish Jokic for not jumping?
Speaker 6 (43:41):
You know again? Not all championships, I would say, are
created equal.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
True, I think that Lebron's Heat championships don't carry as
much weight as his Cleveland championship. If Durant won a
title this year with Houston, that would carry more weight
than his Golden State Championships.
Speaker 6 (43:56):
So you know, I think everything is a case by
case basis.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yeah, it's a good point there. I gotta do my list.
I gotta do my list on eleventh and twenty five.
Yoka is definitely my top fifteen. He's definitely in the
Elijah won Shack conversation. But yeah, it's interesting because like
supporting Casto, especially like your next best player is Jamal.
Speaker 4 (44:18):
Murray, who is pretty good. Yeah, but he ain't pipping.
He ain't worthy of Kareem. He's not. You know.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
The only other guy that has to comp to that
is really is uh is Uh Elijah one, who's headst
player was Kai director at the tail.
Speaker 4 (44:32):
His tail is a tail end.
Speaker 3 (44:33):
It was at his a prime phone call coming in
one second, right, all right, sorry wife this call. So,
like I said, I'm gonna do a update my list
again eleven twenty five and kind of see where we
stand on that one. But it is interesting debate, man,
And you know, I know a lot of old headers
get offended by these things. I'm considered old headed now
at this point. I'm forty five. But I've also watched
(44:55):
Jordan's peak, so I have I have a perspective of
how good Jordan was, that perspective of Lebron's be because
I watched.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Lebron speak as all too so. But it is interesting.
Speaker 3 (45:05):
I got a Yokic who's very quiet this this like
like like Tim Duncan's put his head down.
Speaker 4 (45:10):
I'll tell you.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
I'll tell you one guy who may be very complicated
in the end if he wins more titles, Sga. SGA
might be complicated because like Duncan, like Yo gets quiet,
put he's winning titles now and he's doing dominant fashion
and it's not like he's getting.
Speaker 4 (45:23):
A superstar off the streets. They're building around.
Speaker 6 (45:26):
Him this core.
Speaker 3 (45:28):
So that's gonna be interesting to see how SGA is
like he gets uh, you know, perspected in the years
to come.
Speaker 6 (45:35):
Honestly, it's still so early in his journey that it is.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
It is.
Speaker 6 (45:39):
It's hard to say in ten years where we'll look
at him.
Speaker 3 (45:42):
But those numbers right now, those numbers are compared to Jordan,
And I know what, the NBA is different today because
the hand checking rule is not a longer thing anymore
in comparison, But he's still putting on a thirty plus
a game, Like it's like it's nothing and they're winning
and they're winning titles now, so the argument now it
can be us against them because I don't know.
Speaker 4 (46:02):
So we'll see. The NBA is a very.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Fascinating league and the way it grows and the way
that the game's growing through the years, it makes for
an interesting conversation. This is why love That's why I
love this podcasts because at through the years of discussing
these things, it things change and professional change and it's
a it's great. So anyway, Greg, thank you as always
coming to pod. It was great conversations always. We'll be
have you on soon of course, as always anything want
(46:26):
a plug before you got he or anything.
Speaker 6 (46:28):
Nope, nothing to plug.
Speaker 5 (46:29):
Just gonna keep watching the games and to see over
the next couple of weeks have us.
Speaker 4 (46:34):
Are you digging the NBA Cup?
Speaker 6 (46:36):
I mean I'm watching it.
Speaker 5 (46:37):
I mean, you know, anytime you can get good teams
playing against each other, I'm not going to turn it down.
But you know, at the end of the day, I
don't think that teams are changing strategy much. I mean,
the Lakers won the first year, the Bucks won it
last year, and I don't think that was the saving
grace for either one of them in any way.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
So I'll say as much. I'm watching it because it's
a it's a game. I don't look at his NBA
Cup to mean to me. The NBA Cup for me
is another regular choosing game, so I'm watching by default.
Speaker 6 (47:05):
Yep. Yeah, I think that's a fair way to put it.
And I look at it the same.
Speaker 4 (47:09):
So there you go. Good job.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
Greg is always yep, thanks for having me on. I
appreciate it.
Speaker 4 (47:13):
You got it, brother,
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