Greg Hrinya

Earnest ‘EJ’ Christian is joined by NBA author and analyst Greg Hrinya to revisit the blockbuster SGA/Clippers trade of 2019, the Knicks winning the NBA Cup, and a look at the current NBA standings.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Earnestly Speaking Podcast is a show that is founded
on free flowing conversation and may it times venture into
mature subjects. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Yeah, earnestly speaking, prcurs.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
This kiddes how much younging in New York give my
yammy carry heed so much moremer storm or productive flood
the street. Opinion Nation cons Fama, see oh hofit the
late He's gonna see me a hustle on, no limitation,
no fans, army your matutables.

Speaker 4 (00:40):
Opinion Nations.

Speaker 3 (00:41):
Dad never went off season homemade and checked the nomblice
for probing my old right.

Speaker 4 (00:46):
Supply yourself the comfort.

Speaker 3 (00:48):
Earnestly speaking, my ego is well faced, earnestly.

Speaker 4 (00:51):
Speaking to people.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
They don't bread see him like a hurricane Dura mile brief,
earnestly speaking, leave it eat like a Titus Grief.

Speaker 5 (01:08):
Recording this Tuesday afternoon, twenty third, twenty twenty five. It
is Christmas Eve Eve, and of course joined here by
our MBA analyst.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
And author Greg Rinya. Greg, how are you doing? Marry
Christmas to you? How are you doing?

Speaker 6 (01:21):
I'm doing well, Merry Christmas, Happy holidays. Thanks for having
me on.

Speaker 5 (01:24):
Yeah, man, you're looking forward to yea. Yeah, you have
any plans for this week with uh just family?

Speaker 6 (01:28):
Yeah, just up and stuff like yeah, typical, nothing too exciting.

Speaker 4 (01:33):
Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:33):
Yeah, it's the same with us. I mean we have
the we do this stuff at home. Traditionally we do
everything home for us with the kids, and then we
go my wife's job. They always every year for Christmas Day,
they do a luncheon at a at a at a
habbachi place. We've been going there for like eight years now.

Speaker 4 (01:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:47):
We go there with put friends or whatever and co
workers or hers and then uh, but then we're gonna
go see my sister after up in the Stewart, Florida
about our away from here. Soy, So that's all that.
We've pretty much our plans landing for Chris Day. It
was normally takes time to develop sometimes, you know.

Speaker 6 (02:06):
It's another This is another good food holiday for me.
So Christmas Eve very busy, lots of food.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Same thing.

Speaker 5 (02:11):
Well, I was gonna ask you that though, So, like,
like we spoken off off record, like you're you're pretty good,
you're bing good about your health and eating clean all
this stuff, but do you like loose doing the holidays.

Speaker 6 (02:22):
Yeah, yeah, I'm much less strict during the holidays. There's
only a couple of times a year. So I mean,
like day to day, you try and cook and you
try and watch what you're eating, but like you know,
I'll have the cookies and the cake, and that's I
wish on the holidays.

Speaker 5 (02:36):
Man, I wish I had a disciplined brother. I wish
I had a discipline Seriously.

Speaker 4 (02:40):
I mean, I'm working on it. I really am.

Speaker 5 (02:41):
And my wife and I we were talking the other day,
was like, you know what, after not I even went
to New Year's after Christmas Day. We're getting back on
the horning because ever since I took to New York
in August, because I went, I went nuts in New York.

Speaker 4 (02:53):
I went nuts.

Speaker 5 (02:54):
I every every freaking pizza stand I saw in Manhattan,
I was eating a pizza or some bread.

Speaker 2 (03:00):
Well, I mean, it is one of the food capitals
of the world.

Speaker 5 (03:02):
So what do you want me to do saying I'm
here to eat and have fun for four days?

Speaker 4 (03:08):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 5 (03:09):
And I've had I've never really recovered from that, although
I will say though the weight I gained was four
days and eating work, I lost pretty quickly because I fasted.

Speaker 4 (03:16):
A lot too.

Speaker 5 (03:16):
Also fast anyway on a deally basis. So the eight
the eight pounds I sort of gained that on that
trip I lost within a week because I was I
kind of recalibrated myself.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
But at the same time, I'm still recovering from that
trip still to this day.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
So keep up with it.

Speaker 4 (03:31):
Yeah, man.

Speaker 5 (03:33):
So this topic I want to touch on today with
you was kind of birth from a discussion I had
and go figure it every time I talk to my
family about this, my my dad's not a family. My father,
my brother and then all our cousins were all ti
herd NBA fans, like we have a chat, for example,
on our on our phone that we have a group
text of all the all the boys, all the males.

Speaker 4 (03:54):
In a family and we I should you not?

Speaker 5 (03:57):
Ninety percent of the time we were talking about it
about NBA basketball. So my brother bought the topic about
like how like if this you know, the SGA trade
the Clippers back in tween nineteen is the worst trade
in history. And I started thinking about that. I was like,
I mean, you look at how it's still developing right now.
Is that how can you not consider that given the
fact that six years removed, now what has happened to

(04:19):
both franchises in the last six years and what is
still to come still.

Speaker 4 (04:25):
I mean, it's it's something arguable.

Speaker 5 (04:28):
Would you say, would you agree that if the Bullets
is the worst trade ever?

Speaker 4 (04:32):
Given the dynamics of.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
It, I mean, it's easy to say that it's the worst.

Speaker 6 (04:39):
I don't know if it's a lock for the first
You could point to the Luca trade, you know that
that looks bad. Obviously, the Nets trade with the Celtics,
that looks bad because that turns into Jalen Brown Jason Tatum.
So I mean, you can go back in it. But
it's certainly in it's certainly in the running. I would
say that it's easy to look at Okay, see now,
and when we look back on this ten years, say, oh,

(05:01):
they won four championships, they were in the Western Conference
finals for eight straight years, and if it goes the
way that it's trending, you're probably gonna look back on
it and say that it was the worst. And it's
funny too, because Howard Beck wrote a piece recently that
basically looked at a lot of these like star caliber
trades and they historically never work out for the team

(05:25):
getting the star. So when we do all these like
drafts for what team we want to see player X
go to let's say Yannis in the heat for example,
historically trading where and Hero and Wiggins and two to
three firsts and swaps, it never seems to work out
for the team.

Speaker 2 (05:46):
Getting that star caliber player.

Speaker 6 (05:48):
So this case with the Thunder is exhibit a of
you give up a lot to go for it, you
shrink your timeline, and then when the other team slow
builds and builds properly, you kind of have to live
with the results. And I mean things look pretty bleak
for the Clippers right now, so it's easy to say

(06:10):
in the present that that's it.

Speaker 2 (06:12):
I'm sure that when we did this.

Speaker 6 (06:14):
Ten months ago, we were probably saying that the Luca
trade was the worst trade. But I mean, this is
pretty bad, and yet there's a lot of.

Speaker 4 (06:22):
Revisious history of this too. We also, because.

Speaker 5 (06:26):
You know, you you if you had to go to
it over again in twenty nineteen and put yourself on
in a frame of twenty nineteen, you still make that move.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
Because here's the deal.

Speaker 5 (06:39):
Kawhile Edward was looked at as at the time a
top three player, you know what I mean, Paul George.
Look it was that still a pretty top ten it's
player in the league. So the moves that they made
to facilitate that move, you would do it over again,
because no one saw SGA being this good, No one.
It was never on on the radar sg being a

(06:59):
top five player, a top three player, an NBA champion,
a lead dog of an NBA champion team. It just
it just it's what makes the trade bad, is not
It's not even the players anymore, certainly, what's happened to players,
you know, Kawhi not staying healthy, the Paul George obviously
that whole thing.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
As jays As sended to you know, the strats.

Speaker 5 (07:21):
For now we lookt him as probably the top twenty
five player all time, but at some point.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
It's the capitol that the Clippers gave up for him.
It's the capital, it's what they risk their franchise now.

Speaker 5 (07:32):
And now I look at this trade now and they're
not even close to me on the woods this trade.

Speaker 4 (07:38):
That's the worst part.

Speaker 5 (07:39):
Like they're Clippers are falling apart now, Like it'd be
one thing if, like I say, they're competitive for a
year and for the most part they've been competitive. Then
it hasn't palled into a championship or even the finals appearance.
We can say they have been competitive. That's that's five years.
But circumstance has hurt that too old with the injuries whenever.
But now they have no draft capital whatsoever. And as

(08:01):
we say in twenty twenty five, they're terrible.

Speaker 4 (08:03):
They're bad.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
So you stuck with James Hordon. Some of why is
contract Porlteorge has gone long gone now. Not granted, Peltrog's
is not doing a much much better in Philadelphia, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 4 (08:12):
And yet you have no draft capital and you have
still you're still o picks to that team.

Speaker 5 (08:17):
Oh by the way, that same team just won the
ANBA Championship and is the best team and now Chicken
seventy wins this year.

Speaker 6 (08:23):
Yeah, and they're getting an unprotected lottery pick this year
in one of the deepest drafts in recent memory, maybe
since two thousand and four. So I mean it's a
case of there are discussions where the thunder are talking
about trading some of their picks because they just can't
roster them at this point. Like the thunder have so
many assets and so many good players that they can't

(08:43):
even house them on their roster. Meanwhile, a team like
the Clippers, like they don't have any assets. Yeah, you
look across the league, Milwaukee Phoenix, Like, these teams don't
have any assets basically, and Oklahoma City has just got
so many of them in addition to three good young
players that are gonna be there for a decade. I
don't really know where the Clippers go from here, you know,

(09:05):
I think that they will be better than they've been,
but the West is so competitive that like, okay, like
you finished tenth or eleventh, like you're still giving a
lottery pick with almost certainty to Oklahoma City. So I mean,
like that's that's pretty disastrous. And like you said, like
they're not really close to being out of the woods,
and they're also nowhere close to contending.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
You know.

Speaker 6 (09:26):
I think the way that they built this team was
to have flexibility to go after free ations in the
summer of twenty seven, so you know, not next summer,
but the summer after all these guys will be expiring.
But in the meantime, they can't tank because they don't
have their picks. Yeah, there's no incentive to tank, and
the players they've got they can't really get off of,

(09:48):
and if they do get off them, they're not getting
anything back for him because those guys make too much money.
So it's the perils of trying to sell seats and
merchandise and stuff like that. And that's why Sam Presty
gets so much credit. I mean, you know, maybe people
will say it's easier to do in Oklahoma City than
it is in LA but you know, he made a

(10:08):
lot of long term decisions and you look at a
lot of these teams. To my point earlier about the
Howard Beck piece about the teams making that big swing
and shortening their timeline, it almost never works. I mean,
you know, Kevin Durant to Phoenix. I mean again, you
can go on down the line, these trades for guys
that are thirty and above, on the wrong side of thirty,

(10:31):
It just it just typically doesn't work out. And I
mean the for the Clippers, yes, to your point, you
can say no one anticipated being good, but.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
It's not just Shay. It's also all the capital they
gave up with him.

Speaker 6 (10:44):
So not only did they wind up with the best
player by a lot in the deal the healthiest, best player,
but they also got all these picks along with it.
So I mean, it's the gift that keeps on giving.
I guess you could say for Oklahoma City and for
the Clippers, like they're in a rough spot.

Speaker 5 (11:00):
So they get significant cap room in two years. Okay,
so they as of right now, if everything holds firm
right now, everything stays whay it is now, no changes,
no trades, they don't make any moves. The let's write
out these contracts. They all they only have three they
only have three players.

Speaker 4 (11:18):
On on on the books.

Speaker 5 (11:19):
They'll have literally twice twice mill dollars in twice million
dollars of actual salaries being paid out by then because
by then, yeah, one of those Yeah, that's correct, and
I'm actually be expiring deal, which which means if you
want to keep them, you can actually extend.

Speaker 4 (11:32):
Them at this point at some point. But you look
at the rest of that.

Speaker 5 (11:36):
You know, we were talking, we were talking tex couple
days ago about what can they do in the short
term to either a rebuild or what that Number one,
you can't really get any I mean, can you get
draft capital back. I mean, if you trade Kawhi or trades, salaries.
I mean probably not, but it is. I guess my
question is this because a lot of times when when

(11:59):
teams like these that older Tony's guys do have value
to to to other other teams that are un a
Virgil championship. So let's say you send Kawhi to a
team that's on a piece of way or Harden a
piece away, you know. But the thing is, though, can
you get back some valuable draft capital to recover somewhat

(12:19):
from what you Okay.

Speaker 6 (12:20):
See, uh no, I would say no to all that,
just because if you're a team that's that's a James
Let's say you're a Kawhi Leonard Away, you think you
need to match his fifty three million dollars or whatever.
Three Yeah, let's say fifty million in salary. So you're
gonna need to cobble together. Like let's use Miami as

(12:41):
the example, because they're always seen as as a team
that's going after a big player, whether it's Kawhi, whether
it's James Harden, whether it's Giannis, whether it's whomever. You
still have to cobble together the fifty million dollars for
that player that's gutting your depth just to get that player.
So I don't know that James Harden or Kawhi Leonard
or guys that you got your depth over. It'd be
one thing if you were just absorbing them into your team,

(13:04):
if they were bought out and you were signing them,
you know, like a Bradley Beal situation. Like you know,
that was never really gonna turn into some great, big
move for the Clippers. But they didn't have to give
up anything for him. It's like they had to trade
three players to match his salary. I don't know what
team is trading those three salaries to get back guys

(13:25):
who are on the wrong side of thirty at least
hard And you know he's gonna play. He's gonna play
his style, but he's gonna play. I don't know that
Kawhi is gonna want to play. I don't even know
ifqu wants to play. So I mean, like he could
get traded to you know, I'll just use Milwaukee as
the desperate team. If Milwaukee says, oh, you know, we'll
trade you Portis and Kuzma and.

Speaker 2 (13:49):
Andre Jackson and our last first and a pick swap
for Kawhi. That's all our assets left.

Speaker 6 (13:55):
Like he doesn't want to go to Milwaukee, and even
if he does, he might not play in half the games.
I mean, like that doesn't make sense for a team
even that that could elevate to a certain point with
a move like that. So I just don't see the
team that just has fifty million dollars in salary lying right.
The only team really would be Houston because they've got
Fred Van Vliet's forty million dollar salary, and since he's

(14:17):
out for the year of the torn acl you could
move him. But I'm pretty sure he's got a no
trade clause because of the deal that he signed.

Speaker 4 (14:23):
By the way, I saw enough to cut you off.

Speaker 5 (14:25):
I saw not a report, but I don't know if
you if you watch mass Belmansview podcast for Rich Paul,
I haven't seen it, so I guess it would a
dispute about a debate about Van Vliet, and Rich Paul
called Van Vleet on air while they're recording, and he's
supposedly in rehab and he's trying to come back this

(14:45):
year foty years over, So just saying that he could
be he could be in play this year to put.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
A Rockets playoff run. When it's all said and done this.
This a little side note.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
That's all true.

Speaker 6 (14:53):
Granted, he's not gonna have a training camp. Like, are
you going to take a guy coming back in April
if he's been back for two week and he's playing
ten to fifteen minutes a game and you're throwing him
out there and crunch time against the Thunder in the
second round.

Speaker 4 (15:07):
Odd he won't back this year to odds are.

Speaker 6 (15:09):
Yeah, but if they even if they said, that's great,
that's very nice that he's working really hard in his rehab.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
But we want to trade him.

Speaker 6 (15:16):
I think he's got some refusal there because of the
con because of the deal that he signed. Uh don't
quote me on that, but I think that he can
he can veto a trade. Uh so there's a forty
million dollars salary.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
How does Fred van Vliet get a fucking mil trade clause.

Speaker 6 (15:34):
I think it's like built into the contract that he signed.
I don't think it was like a Lebron situation where
he or Bradley Beal where he knew to go for it.

Speaker 4 (15:42):
That makes no sense to me at all.

Speaker 6 (15:45):
It's like some of these guys because of their deals,
like like aj Green with Milwaukee, like because of the
extension that he signed, he get't even be traded this year.
So I mean they couldn't even throw him into a
trade if they wanted to, not saying they'd want to,
but like, there's a number of contracts around the league
where there's wording around it that you can move it,
you can't move it. Cam Thomas with the Nets another one.

(16:07):
Because he's playing on the qualifying offer, he has a.

Speaker 4 (16:12):
Like a.

Speaker 6 (16:14):
I guess like a no trade clause. Even though it's
not actually no the trade clause. He can just veto
where he goes if he doesn't want to make that move.
So it's for all intents and purposes of no trade clause,
but it's it's.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
Not like a negotiated thing.

Speaker 6 (16:28):
But but that would be the only thing that theory
that would make sense where you have a forty million
dollars salary that you're trying to get rid of, Because
if you're trading three guys and you're gutting your depth,
what are you left with after you take back a
heart and you take back a Kawhi. I don't know
that they're good enough at this stage in their careers
to justify losing three other guys.

Speaker 5 (16:47):
Yeah, if a question Giannis, you know too much afset
and he's on a veterand of thirty, then why why
would you even like consider doing that for bad Night
hard and Leonard Hardest contact a little bit more, a
little easier. If he's and all's nothing then then then
uh then let then Kawhi. Now Hardness a player opt
at the end of the year, which I'm sure you

(17:08):
probably opt in most likely. But he does have he
does have some value to our contender if he if
if if they get desperate. But if you're the Clippers,
right you just like if you're Steve Bomber, uh, Greg
pretends Steve Bomber and the old dancing on the Silight
Sea does all the time, but which I love the
guy for a record.

Speaker 4 (17:25):
If you're Steve Bomber, though, do you just.

Speaker 2 (17:31):
I mean, I don't think you have a choice.

Speaker 6 (17:32):
I think you have to ride it out, which is
why I don't think they're pick necessarily is going to
be the third of the fourth pick in the draft.
But I also don't see them. I think their ceiling
is probably like a nine or a ten seed, uh,
which given the town.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
Right if they turn around, Yeah, yeah, I don't.

Speaker 6 (17:49):
I don't see that, Like, yeah, they'll pass Utah, they'll
pass Portland. But I mean it's like after that where
you're going, like you're not passing the Warriors, for example,
You're all you're already a huge deficit, you know. I
mean it's the Warriors like a five hundred team, but I.

Speaker 2 (18:04):
Think the the.

Speaker 6 (18:06):
Clippers, I mean, they have eight wins, So seven or eight.

Speaker 4 (18:10):
Wins, that's pathetic, bro for a team.

Speaker 6 (18:13):
I mean that's seven that's seven games behind behind where
the Warriors are. So and then the Wars haven't even
been that good. So I mean, I'm just saying that
if you extrapolate that over the rest of the season,
it's not that easy to make up seven or eight
games to get to you have to make up nine
or ten games just to get to like a five

(18:33):
or six seed.

Speaker 5 (18:34):
And the worst part two is Kawhi Okay, So they've
played what twenty six games this year? The Clippers so
far twenty seven games this year.

Speaker 2 (18:42):
We're about a third into the season.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
Third one Okay, so he's played eighteen games so far
this year. He's having a solid game or twenty five
points a game, six boards, three assists.

Speaker 4 (18:50):
You a whole nine.

Speaker 5 (18:52):
It doesn't make any sense why they're this bad. I
can understand them being a playing team and maybe being
in the five hundred, but to be this bad, it
makes no sense. What's going on there?

Speaker 4 (19:00):
Why? Why?

Speaker 6 (19:01):
It makes sense to an extent because they're old men,
not of shooting, you know, I mean, it's it's uh.
I think losing Norman Powell was a really big loss
because as you see with him in Miami, like he
stretches the floor, he's you. If you look at their lineup,
Hardening Kawhi are the only guys that can shoot. And
I wouldn't say that Kawhi is like Kevin Durant.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
Yeah, so I wouldn't say James Harden is Kevin Durant.
So I don't know.

Speaker 6 (19:30):
I see those two guys shooting at Zubos. Isn't a shooter.
John Collins is not a shooter. I mean, I know
he's had some good games recently, but I mean those
are two starters that aren't prototypical shooters. And then if
you want to play Chris Dunn or I know Derek
Jones has been hurt, but if you're playing Derek Jones
or Chris Dunn those guys can't shoot either, So I
mean you're putting a lot of pressure on Kawhi and

(19:51):
James Harden to hit shots. In the Western Conference, like
there's maybe it's not, I don't know, I would say
top heavy, but there's good depth to where like even
the seven or the eight seed, if you're looking at
the Warriors on a given night, like they can shoot.
So I mean not as well maybe as some of

(20:13):
the top teams, but I just don't know that outside
of those two guys, if they have enough floor spacing
and if the rest of the roster is old. I mean,
like Brook Lopez is probably the third best shooter, and
I wouldn't say he's a great shooter, and he can't
really move out there, and that's why he's coming off
the bench.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
I get.

Speaker 6 (20:33):
I guess now that zubats is I want to say
he sprained his anchor the other day, I guess Lopez
will be starting, So maybe that floor spacing helps a
little bit. But I think losing Norman Powell was a
big loss for them because he played at an all
Star level last year, just like he's playing at an all
Star level this year.

Speaker 2 (20:52):
I mean, he probably won't make the team.

Speaker 6 (20:53):
But I mean, he can give you twenty five points
on any given night and he shoots them three like respectively. Well,
so I think that that swap, while it was meant
to they didn't want to give nor Impalell a new contract,
so it was meant to be financially savvy to where again,
the summer of twenty seven, all these guys expire. They

(21:14):
didn't want to give him a new contract, and John
Collins will be expiring.

Speaker 2 (21:17):
Before that point in time.

Speaker 6 (21:19):
But what their roster needed was more outside shooting, and
they sacrificed that when they made that swap.

Speaker 5 (21:26):
I will say this much though, and I'm not even
saying this because you said that their ceiling is nine.

Speaker 4 (21:30):
To nine seed probably in the West. It's a playing team.

Speaker 5 (21:34):
They will be if they can somewhat cobble together a
string of wins between now and April. They beat the
Lakers on Saturday or whatever Sunday was, I don't know
they played, but recently meet the Lakers. If they can
somehow find a way together as whole and climb to
a plane, they'll be very They'll they'll be a very
dangerous playing team.

Speaker 4 (21:53):
Those players.

Speaker 6 (21:54):
I don't read anything into that Lakers game only because
the Lakers are like totally banged up. I mean, they're
missing Austin Reefs, they're missing Hotch and Mora, they're missing
they're missing DeAndre eight And I mean again, they had Luca,
they had Lebron. I think Luca left that game.

Speaker 4 (22:08):
Maybe, I'm sure. So I appreciate that.

Speaker 6 (22:12):
I mean going into the game, I mean, the Clippers,
I think, or maybe the Lakers were favorite, but it
was like a one and a half point spread where
it was like totally suspicious and you knew and then
you look at the roster and you're like, Okay, they're
missing like four guys and that's even giving them Luca and.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
Lebron, but still a lot of their depths have been gutted.

Speaker 4 (22:28):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (22:29):
So again, uh, not to take anything away from them,
but I mean, I just don't think that that's like
the It's not like they went into Oklahoma City and
beat the Thunder and it's like, now we've got something here.
I think that was pretty much a schedule loss for
for the Lakers. Uh. In addition to everyone was injuries,
So I'm not gonna give them too much credit there.
I mean, look, they'll be competitive because they're not looking

(22:50):
to tank. They're gonna play their guys every single night,
so they're gonna run into teams. They're gonna see the Wizards,
they're gonna see the Pacers, They're gonna see teams that
aren't trying to necessarily win games at some point that
you are probably gonna shut it down. You're going to
see a team like that. But again, if their ceiling
is making the playoffs and playing Oklahoma City in the

(23:11):
first round, like you know, because if they finish as
a nine seed, the best they could do after getting
through the play and would be playing Oklahoma City. So
I don't know how dangerous they really could be in
the play Yeah, they could be dangerous to playing and
if they wound up facing any other team, they could
maybe make it difficult. But I just it seems like

(23:32):
they're ceiling is capped at either a lottery team or
playing Okay See in the first round based on how
they've started the season.

Speaker 2 (23:39):
So I feel like all the roads are.

Speaker 6 (23:41):
Bad, which is why if they had, if they had
their druthers, they would probably break it down and and
trade Harden and Kawhi. But again, there just won't be
a market for them because their money and their age.
And it's the same thing with like zach Lavine. You
hear his name being bandied about, it's like.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
Hear that one about on Milwaukee.

Speaker 6 (24:01):
Yeah, I mean that doesn't make sense to me. I mean,
I know Milwaukee's desperate, but like you're gonna trade again
Portis and Kuzma, and maybe you don't have to trade
a pick because Sacramento just wants to get off his
contracts and maybe there's draft capital being exchanged, but still
that's your last chip to play. I mean, like, if
I want to hold out to make a trade, I'd

(24:23):
rather have Andrew Wiggins. And again, not that Andrew Wiggins
is available, but if I'm Milwaukee, I'd rather have Wiggins
than zach Lavin's. At least Wiggins can play a little defense.
I mean, I think that's that's Milwaukee's biggest problem. And
Zack Lavine's one of the worst defenders in the league.
So I mean it's his age, his salary.

Speaker 4 (24:40):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (24:40):
Yeah, he's a good shooter and that makes sense around yo, honest,
but if he can't defend, if he can't do anything
else to help the team, I don't know why they
would go down that path.

Speaker 5 (24:50):
Yeah, yeah, would make the next wing the NBA Cup,
I'll tell you what they I'll say as much of
the NBA Cup in general, coming into that final game,
it felt very important, Like it felt like a playoff game,
not just the game itself. With the lead into the game,
like it felt like it was an important game, like
people were actually there was a bit of buzz, not

(25:10):
on the Internet, but just like even around me and
people who don't rush India normally talk about it. I
don't know if it was because the Knicks were in
there or when was in there or both or whatever,
but it feels like the third year now it started
started to feel like, oh, this feels semi important now
in the way it wasn't last.

Speaker 4 (25:28):
Year or the first year.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
Yeah. I mean, for me, it's competition.

Speaker 6 (25:32):
I saw a lot of Knicks fans say that they
didn't even want to get to the finals because they
didn't want to have to play a meaningless game and
risk guys getting injured and all that, And I'm like,
I think that beating a Spurs team that had just
beaten OKC, it's good for their confidence, especially when they're
playing in a conference where they're not being tested necessarily
on a nightly basis.

Speaker 5 (25:51):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (25:52):
I don't think there's anything wrong with having a litmus
test this early in the season, right, And that was
that was a good good checkpoint for them to say, like, Okay,
we've we've got a pretty good thing going here. I
think that the Spurs are a really good team, like now,
they're a good team now. So uh, that was a
good test for them.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Uh.

Speaker 6 (26:12):
I don't think there's anything wrong with the with the
NBA Cup or anything. I mean, like, I don't know
that it's something that like I'm selling out. If a
guy's hurt, I'm rushing him out there to try and
to try and win it. But at the same time,
it's an opportunity to get a litmus test way before
the playoffs start, just to kind of see where you
are in regards to some of the other other really

(26:33):
good teams in the league.

Speaker 2 (26:34):
And and they passed that test.

Speaker 6 (26:36):
So I don't think there's any any complaining that should
be should be done about. Like I know the Knicks.
The Knicks aren't playing their guys, like they're sitting like
four guys later. Brunston's not playing. I think he's being
load managed. I think an Andoby's not playing, and you've
got McBride who's already out, and Shaman who who's already out.
And they'll see fans saying, oh, they went all out

(26:56):
to win a meaningless game against the Spurs, and this
game can use in the standings, and it's like, look,
they can afford a loss here and there. I think
that treating those games as preparation for the playoffs and
seeing where you are has some value to it. So
I think that it's interesting from that standpoint. I mean, again,
I wouldn't sell out. If a guys hurt, I'm not

(27:18):
rushing him back to play. But at the same time,
I'm also not resting guys in it because it's so meaningless.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
I think there's value that can be taken.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
From one thing.

Speaker 5 (27:28):
Annoying me about people's comment tarying it the ones to
a negati about it, and I'm not necessary saying I'm
positive about na Cup client and that told you.

Speaker 4 (27:34):
To me, it's an NBA game, I'm gonna watch it.

Speaker 5 (27:36):
Okay, to me, it's another ren season game, and it
happens to be an NBA Cup games will be it,
but it's the regular season game.

Speaker 4 (27:43):
People saying no, it doesn't matter.

Speaker 5 (27:44):
And you know whatever and this is just whatever and
and you know talking about like you know Kobe and
and and all the old players of yes yesteryear, when
you know damn well that if Kid, if them Cup
existed in a time where Michael Jordan's playing and Kay
Brun's playing, they will take it just as serious so
that they're not vouching for their heroes in a.

Speaker 4 (28:06):
Way you think you you think you know them.

Speaker 5 (28:09):
If Kid Bryant played, they existing in the end the
time KLi Bryant was playing basketball, you know them well, Klibryant.
Then when they make Cup will take that and and
and put some pride.

Speaker 4 (28:18):
In that thing.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, it's competition.

Speaker 6 (28:21):
I mean Michael Jordan whether he's playing dice or cards
or golf or basketball, like you didn't want to lose
it anything. So I mean, uh, I think that this
is it's competition, and it's a it's a good uh.
It's good value for the Knicks to see where they
are against other good teams. It's people liking it to
a preseason game, but a preseason game only playing your

(28:41):
guys for the first half and you're playing your backup.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Yeah, and you're playing your backups in your G League
players in the second half.

Speaker 6 (28:47):
This is a game where both teams played their guys
to win, and there's value in that. So I think
that it's a fine experiment that the league has done.
I don't I don't think that it's me. I think
there's value to it. Again, I wouldn't go all out
for it. It's like I'm trading players to try and
compete in the NBA Cup. But at the same time,

(29:09):
if it's there in front of you're gonna try and
win it.

Speaker 5 (29:12):
Having said that, is there something there for the Knicks
to take away from specifically this NBA Cup and propel
this to an NBA Finals birth and maybe even a championship.

Speaker 6 (29:26):
I mean, I think right now the clear front runner
in the East. I mean, well, maybe not clear. I mean,
Detroit's still very good. But if I had to pick
between those two teams, I think Detroit's a great regular
season story, but I would still take the Knicks experience
and talent over Detroit. I think there's still a couple
of things with Detroit's roster that I wouldn't necessarily love
in a seven game series. But and then I guess

(29:48):
you also have Boston with the prospect of Tatum coming back,
so they might be the favorite. But I mean as
of today, with no moves on Detroit's side, Look, they
could make a move. They got plenty of ass that's
and Tatum not back. The Knicks are the favorite, and
I think to go against one of the other favorites
in the league again, it's a good barometer for them.

(30:10):
And after watching the Spurs a number of times over
the past few weeks, I can't see any scenario in
which they trade, like make any sort of big trade.
I mean, like, I think you can take them right
out of Yannis sweep Sea.

Speaker 5 (30:23):
I know when I do that. I stayed on the
podcast last week. I wouldn't even involved in it, Like
why would you shortcut your your leap when you have
the pieces?

Speaker 6 (30:32):
Now Wine because Castle has turned out to be way
better than I think anybody anticipated. He's a great defender,
he can score twenty points a game. Still young, Dylan Harper,
same thing, Wemby still young. I mean, they've got all
these guys inunder twenty three. As I keep mentioning with
the historical precedent of going after these big name guys

(30:52):
and trading a lot of assets for him. When you
shorten your window, it typically does not tend to work out.
So I don't think that that would be prudent move,
especially when you're competing with an OKC who also has
a long runway to be competitive, I don't think you
want to shrink your runway.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
I think you want to extend it as far as possible.

Speaker 5 (31:12):
So although you can say that the Spurs will be
the one team now set to shorten that runway if
that robbery becomes a thing bill in the future.

Speaker 6 (31:19):
Sure, but Milwaukee's not making that trade if they're not
getting Castle or Harper, and I can't see any scenario
where san Antoni would make that move just because I
think they're too smart to go, because again, Giannis is
thirty one and his game's not going to age gracefully
because he plays a physical game. He's not going to
be out there spotting up shooting threes. You can't stick
him in the corner and say go shoot forty percent

(31:40):
from three.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
He's not that kind of player.

Speaker 6 (31:42):
So I wouldn't want to give up a twenty two
year old who's got All Star potential or perennial All
Star potential. I agree, try and win a title in
the next two or three years. You know, I think
that Santonio is good right now. Maybe they're not a
title contender this second, but like there's certainly on that
pathway in the next couple of years.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
They're a really good team.

Speaker 6 (32:04):
And I think I wouldn't want to play them in
the playoffs, and I think that that's a good win
for the Knicks on a neutral floor to go up
against that team that had a lot of momentum and
be able to beat them.

Speaker 5 (32:15):
I totally agree with your humbercent all right, I look
at the standings. I'll let you pick what's conference first.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Oh, it's to the Eastern Conference. I watched way more
Eastern Conference.

Speaker 5 (32:24):
All right, all right, Eastern conferdence of credit stands will
breaks oumin in the top six, then the playoffs for
playing four and then the bottom feeders. So right now,
as of today, we have number one, the Pistons at
twenty geen and six at number one, number two, the
next at twenty and eight, three, surprisingly the Celtics at
eighteen eleven them before also surprising the six Ers at

(32:46):
sixteen eleven, Number five, the Raptors at seventeen thirteen and
number six in the East right now. The Onlando Magic
H sixteen thirteen little disappointing in my opinion. What stands
out for you here in this in this top six
so far.

Speaker 6 (33:01):
Well, two things stand out. I mean one, I guess
is an extension into the play in. But the fact
that Cleveland isn't in the top six right now, I
think that stands out.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
Granted they have a lot of injuries.

Speaker 6 (33:14):
Mobley's been injured, Garland's been injured, Screws hasn't played yet
this year.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Merrill's been injured.

Speaker 6 (33:19):
I mean, so that's a lot of guys that Allan
has missed some games. I mean, they're pretty much your
entire team except for Donovan Mitchell's has been hurt in
some shape or form throughout the first thirty games. So
I mean understandable to an extent. I'm there are only
a couple of games that have behind Philadelphia. So you know,
with two thirds of a season left, I don't know

(33:41):
what your panicking.

Speaker 5 (33:41):
I will say, by my my over bet on them
going sixty plus wins is pretty much in jeopardy.

Speaker 4 (33:48):
That's dead.

Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah. I remember in our NBA preview I had that
them as an under.

Speaker 4 (33:54):
You didn't and that because because you're smarter than me, buddy.

Speaker 6 (33:58):
Well, I mean, I mean some of it was that
Vegas dropped the line. So the fact that they won
sixty plus games last year and the line was as
low as it was, it's like they want people to
bet the over. That's part of it. And also I
think that they've had so much playoff disappointment in the
past two years that Donovan Mitchell himself said that it

(34:18):
doesn't matter what they do in the regular season, They're
only going to be judged by the playoffs. Now, obviously,
you have to play well enough in the regular season
to put yourself in position in the playoffs to do well.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
You don't want to be a seven or eight seed.

Speaker 6 (34:29):
But at the same time, I just don't think that
they could run off twenty five straight wins and everyone's
going to say that's nice, But what are you going
to do in April and May? Thought so I felt
like with injuries, with Garland and Stew's hurt, going into
the year, with the fact that the playoffs are going
to be the only thing that dictated success for them,
I just didn't know that they were going to place
the emphasis on the regular season that they did last year.

(34:53):
Outside of Cleveland, I would say the Celtics stand out
because they were probably a team that most people looked
at and said, hey, they could take this as a
gap year, they could tank. They could wind up in
the in the top five, six seven picks of the
of the NBA draft, and the next year bring back
one of these top young players in addition to Tatum,
in addition to Brown and really be dangerous. But they're

(35:17):
in a spot right now where you could make the
argument if Tatum comes back in March, let's say, even
if he's only giving you twenty five minutes a game,
even if he's just coming off the bench and giving
you twenty minutes, like that's still in the Eastern Conference. Like,
if I'm the Nicks, I wouldn't want to see that
in the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
No low key candidate.

Speaker 2 (35:36):
Yeah, yeah, totally. So.

Speaker 6 (35:37):
I mean like they're sort of like lurking in the
top couple seeds, and it's like the fact that they're
playing without an MVP candidate and they very well might
get that MVP candidate back that makes them pretty dangerous.

Speaker 4 (35:51):
Honestly.

Speaker 6 (35:51):
I still, honestly too, I would sit him for the year.
But if the decision is left up to him and
he says I want to play, are you going to
tell him you can't play again for another six months?
If in theory he's ready to play in March. You know,
those are things that they're gonna have to grapple with. Again,
I agree with you, I wouldn't bring him back at all,

(36:13):
But then the question becomes, should he not be playing
for sixteen months?

Speaker 2 (36:17):
Is that too long?

Speaker 6 (36:18):
But then that's what KAD missed and KD has showed
no ill effects of his achilles injury.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
In the years since it happens.

Speaker 6 (36:26):
So I mean, in that specific case, sitting the sixteen
eighteen months is the prudent decision to make. But again,
how do you tell a guy who maybe is cleared
to play in February that he can't play March, he
can't play April, and he's got to sit around and
watch the playoffs.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
So something that.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
Right, I knowing that in a year where the Eastern
Conference now the runaway right now is very now granted
a lot of just because of the fact that Boss
is not taking serious as a contender, But now you
bring him back, you're you're You're not all you're worried
about is Detroit now obviously the mix, New York obviously
the favorite, and then we can still we can still
say Cleveland because once again, guys back, we will to

(37:09):
get things back in order. But but you gotta play
a long game here, you got you gotta be wise.

Speaker 4 (37:16):
You know.

Speaker 2 (37:17):
I agree with you.

Speaker 6 (37:18):
If I were in charge of the team, if our
Brad Stevens, I would say, I don't care what he
looks like in March April. He's not playing this year,
whether he likes it or not. I can't risk the
next eight years of my franchise over a move where
even if he comes back in place, let's say they
go to the finals like they're not beaten. Okay, see anyway,

(37:39):
so I'm just not risking possibly ruining his career over
some you know, I don't want to be short sighted here.
I think that taking the long term vision of the
health of the franchise is the more prudent thing to do.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
But something tells me he will be back in March.
That would be might.

Speaker 5 (37:55):
Guess, well, something someone to talk about Philliot four. For me,
it's it's it's a very cool story. And this is
also what Joel Embiid pretty much played. He played like
what eight.

Speaker 6 (38:10):
I mean, I don't know how many games he's played,
but I'll tell you that from the games that I've
watched him play, he has not looked very good. So
I mean, like he does not move well on the
floor at all. Uh So, the fact that they're in
the fourth with Paul George missing games here and there,
with Embid being mostly out of the lineup, trying to
integrate a rookie into into your starting lineup. I mean,

(38:34):
I know, Tyrese Maxi might not be an MVP winner,
but he should certainly be in the top five. I
don't know where Vegas has him, but I mean he's
played great and basically he's the reason why they're not
where Milwaukee is right now.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
Yeah, he's played eleven games, is your so far? Now
he's averaging twenty a game. He's he's not shooting.

Speaker 4 (38:55):
Well at all. Yeah. But here's the thing though, if.

Speaker 5 (39:00):
If you're Philadelphia, you kind of want this though, because
he's not playing enough games yet. He's resting what we
wouldn't call it, but you're still winning games, So can
you maintain this what you have?

Speaker 4 (39:12):
Cornly?

Speaker 5 (39:13):
Now keep Embid, you know, on the ministerstriction and all
that stuff, and then for the playoffs, throw the whole
thing at them.

Speaker 6 (39:22):
I mean, that's a good idea, and maybe that's what
they're gonna try and to I mean, my issue with
him isn't even so much his offense. It said he
can't jump, Like, he doesn't rebound anymore because he pretty
much can't get off the floor. So I mean, I
don't like, I feel like they are a more dangerous
team when they're playing Dominic Barlow and a dem Bona,
even Andre Drummond. Like not that Andre Drummond is some
great athlete at this point, but like he's still a

(39:45):
good rebounder. And if Embiid's gonna be out there and
he's just taking up space and he's not rebounding, he
can't move.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
That that doesn't bode well long term.

Speaker 6 (39:55):
And again, maybe as the season goes on, they keep
him fresh, they load manage him, maybe the knee loosens up.
I have no idea, but I just haven't liked what
I've seen from him. And again it's not even numbers,
uh or anything like that. It's just he does not
look like someone who's gonna get his fitness back.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
And it's not stamina. It's just that I feel like
his his knees are shot.

Speaker 4 (40:16):
Right, anything else in the sixth thing one that stands
out or you're good?

Speaker 6 (40:20):
Uh No, I think I think Cleveland and Philly was
pretty much it. I mean Toronto started the year hot,
they've lost eight out of eleven. Orlando's all banked up.
I mean they've got Franz Wagner. I know he was out.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, I think he's supposed to miss like a month.

Speaker 6 (40:35):
It's probably been a couple of weeks, so, I mean
they're probably looking at two or three weeks without him.

Speaker 2 (40:39):
Jalen Suggs has hurt again. You know what else is new? Uh?

Speaker 6 (40:42):
Simy Orlando they're probably locked into like that four or
five or not four five, six seven sort of range. Yeah,
and we'll see if Miami makes a move, I mean
or Atlanta. I mean, either one of them could make
a move and uh uh and potentially vault themselves into
that Philadelphia range whatever.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
Chicago they still on the great and then it is
full apart.

Speaker 6 (41:06):
Yeah, I mean we talked about it. We didn't think
that that was spokes, that that was going to last.
I mean their offense is great. I mean, Billy Donovan's
a great coach. I look at the roster and I
don't really see you know, maybe maybe Bouzellis is a
guy who can be a contributor on like a championship
caliber team. But I mean, I just see a lot
of guys that are like a lot of role players,

(41:28):
and they've taken a lot of role players, and the
fact that they've won thirteen games so far is pretty
good in a testament to his coaching in my opinion. Again,
I didn't buy into the six and oh start. I
thought that was smoking mirrors. I think thirteen and fifteen
even might be a little better than what I would
have anticipated when you wear started.

Speaker 5 (41:46):
I mean as a roster, if you look, if you'll
contend to you can poach that too, right. You looking
at Vusovic and got that nature were cheap?

Speaker 6 (41:52):
Yeah, I mean, I don't know they're going to really
get much for Vucevic just because he's in.

Speaker 2 (41:56):
Expiring and he's old.

Speaker 6 (41:59):
So I mean, you know, that's probably the kind of
thing where teams want to see him brought out more
so than they want to see you know, they want
to see giving up assets or salary for them and
the Bulls, I don't see like they just always strike
me as a team that's content to be in the play.
I mean, they're not making a move I think to
go for it, and they're also not tankings. So I

(42:19):
mean like that's kind of what they are, like a
couple of games below five hundred type of team.

Speaker 5 (42:24):
Anyone in the bottom five that stands out to you
is welwa can make a move last minute, make a
run before.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
I think there are moves they can make.

Speaker 6 (42:32):
I mean I saw the move out there recently that
seem to make a lot of sense for both teams.
It was Kyle Cuzman for Jeremy Grant. And you say,
why does Portland do that? Because they want to get
off Jeremy Grant's money.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
You know they can.

Speaker 6 (42:47):
Milwaukee would have to take on salary to do that
because Cusma makes makes less. So I mean, in that sense,
depending on how Portland sees itself finishing the season, Drew
Holliday has been hurt, Scoot Henderson's been hurt. If they
decide that they want to play for the lottery, that
shortens their tax bill going forward. So I mean that

(43:08):
that's an easy swap that Milwaukee can make. And then
even outside that, could they then turn around and use
Bobby Portis and a pick and turn that into like
a you know, a twenty million dollar player. I don't
know the answer to that, but I mean I think
they're going to try to add to their roster. They're
not gonna look to to break it down.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
And again, they don't have their own pick.

Speaker 6 (43:30):
I mean, they will have a pick in this upcoming draft,
but it's the lesser of the pick between them and
New Orleans. Uh, so they're not completely without a pick.
They could still wind up with like the tenth or
eleventh pick in the draft.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
But if they were to win the lottery that that
pick will, it wouldn't go to New Orleans. It would
actually go to.

Speaker 5 (43:47):
Atlanta, depending depending how Yani's story ends up. By February,
I still think Wwaukee and it was a playing team.

Speaker 6 (43:56):
Yeah, again the only two games behind Chicago, and Jannis
really hasn't played that much this year and I don't
really see them trading him because I don't think the
market for him, especially in season, is going to be
that robust. Because again the same thing with Kawhi and
and Harden you have to cobble together fifty four million

(44:16):
dollars worth a salary and picks, you're totally gutting your
whole operation. Like if you're like I like using Miami
as the example, because let's say you trade Hero and
Hakez and where, and let's say you even keep Wiggins.
I mean, does Giannis really fit with Bam because neither
one of them can space the floor? You know, that's

(44:37):
kind of like a you know, I guess it's like
they're so talented you figure it out, but from a
spacing standpoint, that's.

Speaker 2 (44:44):
Kind of weird. Yeah, And then you know you have Wiggins.

Speaker 6 (44:49):
I mean, obviously Pale has been great and he's perfect
to play with both those guys, But do you have
to send Wiggins out in a deal?

Speaker 2 (44:57):
Again?

Speaker 4 (44:57):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (44:58):
So I mean, like this does gut three or four
guys and taking back Kuzma and and.

Speaker 2 (45:05):
Yannis? Does that make your team better? And you're trading
all your picks? I don't know. Like again, I don't
know if that makes them a title team.

Speaker 6 (45:12):
You know, maybe it gets them there, but then do
you get bloorn out by Okay? See, I don't know, Like,
don't I don't know if those those moves make that
much sense. And if you're if you're Milwaukee, you can't
justify to your fan base or to Yannis or to anybody.
We can't take back less than what Orlando got for
Desmond Bane, or what Memphis got for Desmond Bane when

(45:33):
they sent him to to Orlando, or what the Knicks
gave up to get Michael Bridges. Like, you can't take
a guy who's the second or third best player in
the world and just hand him over. You're better off
just letting him play out the next two years and
then hoping that you have a good year next year.
And you're entice in this day, it doesn't make sense
to take twenty cents on the dollar when you saw

(45:56):
the Knicks pay a dollar fifty for a dollar you know,
I mean it just uh, they can't justify giving him away, uh,
just for salary purposes in a salary dump.

Speaker 4 (46:06):
Yeah, I will say.

Speaker 5 (46:08):
On the bottom five teams to watch, Yeah yeah, I
mean co Canipple and Cooper Flag.

Speaker 6 (46:16):
I mean it's probably a coin flip now for Rookie
of the Year. Yeah, by the time the year's over.

Speaker 2 (46:22):
Yeah. Yeah, again, he had a bad one. Or two weeks.
It's like people overreact to a week or two.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
I totally agree with you.

Speaker 6 (46:29):
I can't like Cam Johnson with Denver, everyone freaked out about,
oh my god, he looks terrible. He shooting right now
today he's shooting forty two from three. So I mean,
it's like, you can't you can't judge a whole season
based on a week or two. Flag started out slow,
he's leveled off. He's right there. Canipple's had had a
phenomenal season so far. I mean again, both those guys

(46:50):
are going to be one A, one B when it
comes to voting for that award.

Speaker 5 (46:54):
Right right, right, right, all right, Let's now go to
the Western Conference here. All right, Uh, this is a
lot more I guess for fun you want to call it.
Let's bring on the top six person foremost so right
now number one in the West, he got Okac at
twenty six and three. You have the Santonian Spurs that's
right now, number two. Wow, at twenty one and seven,
also at twenty one seven, number three. Then there were

(47:16):
Nuggets before nineteen eight, the Lakers at five in the West.
They got the Timber Bowls quietly nineteen and ten, number six, seventeen,
nine of the Rockets. I gotta tell you right now,
but s time for me in this top five for
me again, the Spurs and people again. I don't know
sure people have forgotten this, but a lot of this

(47:37):
is without Wemby.

Speaker 4 (47:39):
Without Wemby, that's what's impressive. And now he's back.

Speaker 2 (47:44):
He's back for now.

Speaker 6 (47:45):
I mean again, he's been very injuryroreg don't check it, buddy.
I'm just saying that, like, I'm not gonna make any
assumptions on his course. You like, if I look at
two and three, like I got a pretty good chance
that Jokic is gonna play, I mean like, I don't
see Jokic getting hurt because he doesn't play like a
physical athletic game.

Speaker 2 (48:06):
I don't know when women Yama is going to be available,
you know.

Speaker 6 (48:10):
And again I know that with calf injuries, they really
take those seriously. That's why a guy has a mild casstrain,
they sit him for a month because they don't want
it to turn into a year and losing him to
an achilles. I get that, but look, san Antonio is great.
I don't want to say without him, but like they've
done a really good job with with Fox and Castle
and Harper and Harrison. Barnes has played well, Kelton Johnson's

(48:32):
been fine, Cornett was a good pickup. So I mean,
like they've got a lot of good players on their team,
some young, some little older. Obviously women Yama is the
X factor for the entire league, not just for them.
I mean, if he's healthy, Like I wouldn't want to
play them if I were the Thunder, you know. I
mean it's like they are right up there in the
top three, four or five teams if he's healthy and

(48:55):
playing and all that.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
You know, for me, what stands out I guess that
is that Houston fell off a little bit.

Speaker 5 (49:05):
They lost three or four games, but that also they
also played three and four nights.

Speaker 6 (49:10):
Yeah, I mean we talked about it a little bit
earlier that Like I just I wonder with some of
these teams, like with they're shooting, Like I just don't
know that like the Houston's Houston's philosophy is basically, we
don't care if we missed the shot. We're going to
get the rebound and that's going to be part of
our offense. It's going to be like we're going to
get fifty percent of the available offensive rebounds, and that's

(49:33):
how we're going to bludgeing you to death by just
getting more opportunities. But I think when you play a
good team in the playoffs, do you have enough shooting
outside KD? Like is Reed Shepherd someone that you can
really rely on on both ends of the floor. Maybe
he's a good shooter olthough I think he's been a
little streaky so far this year. But can you play
him extended minutes or do they need to go out

(49:54):
and get another point guard? And you mentioned it before,
like the hope maybe is that Fred VanVleet comes back.
But again, if you're playing the Thunder and you have
Caruso and Shake Killis Alexander and aj Mitchell and lou
Door and all those guys running after you, is that
is that a good landing spot for a guy coming off.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
An a c L injury.

Speaker 6 (50:12):
I don't think so. So, I mean, I don't know
the rockets. I guess I would have expected them to
be a little higher, given that they seem to be
making like more win now moves not so much like
moves to the future, So that's a little surprising.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
But we still think the Rockets are the top one
of the three best teams in the Western Conference or
you know, four teams.

Speaker 2 (50:33):
Yeah, yeah, I would say top four.

Speaker 6 (50:35):
I would still say if they're if they're fully healthy,
not counting Fan Vleet, but I mean, you know, if
Jabari Smith and Kevin Durant and Shane Goon and I
and Thompson are playing, like, yeah, you're probably looking at
them as the top four team in the West.

Speaker 4 (50:50):
Two Wolves in nineteen ten, very very quiet.

Speaker 2 (50:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (50:54):
I mean Ant has has missed a fair amount of games.
I mean, he was injured for a while. So kudos
to them. They they stayed afloat while I was insured
and they beat okay see the other night. So I mean,
like they've got to be assessing their team as they
go into the new year, like you know, they like
where they're sitting right.

Speaker 5 (51:11):
Now, Yeah, playing turn right now.

Speaker 4 (51:16):
Currently the seventh through ten.

Speaker 5 (51:17):
You got those Suns at fifteen thirteen, number seven, number
eight of the Warriors of fifteen and fifteen and five
hundred number nine grizzly than at thirteen sixteen, number ten
the Troiblager of twelve and seventeen. Obviously, the Warriors are disappointment.
We watch what about these guys every time he's one
the podcast. I don't see anything really surprising in the

(51:40):
in the plane right now. I got a little bit
here by Virtue what of the record and when they
were last year. I guess I don't know nothing really
in the plane it really surprised me right now.

Speaker 6 (51:56):
I mean, I'd imagine by years in Dallas will move
into that play in and you can take it out.
Most likely Portland, but maybe Memphis. I think Portland anticipated
being a little more competitive. But I mean Jew Holliday
has missed most of the year, Scoot Henderson's missed all
the year. They've been starting cd SSOCO at point Guard,

(52:19):
you know for a while, and I think the Wizards
released him, you know. I mean again, like going into
the year, you looked at it and you're like, oh wow,
they got Shade and Sharp and they've got Jew Holliday
and you got Scoot Henderson. Like where are they going
to get minutes for all these guys? And now they
can't get minutes for any of them?

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Is a hurt.

Speaker 6 (52:37):
You know, Sharp is playing now obviously, but in terms
of ball handling, they don't really have much of that.

Speaker 4 (52:46):
Should we be surprised at the Suns.

Speaker 2 (52:49):
Yes, yeaheah.

Speaker 6 (52:50):
I mean, if you're asking for what stands out to
you in that playing group, it's definitely the Suns being
at fifteen and thirteen.

Speaker 5 (52:58):
I only say that because when we did over Runners
but my boys Zach and Chris on the show, I
think it was a thirty or thirty one, and I
went over because Devin Booker healthy, you know, they you know,
you figured that there's some good basketball players on that roster.
Can it cobble thirty two wins? That won't surprise me?

(53:20):
And we're on Paysman right now currently.

Speaker 2 (53:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (53:23):
I mean, look, they they had the tenth pick in
the draft last year, and that was with Durant and
with Beale on the roster, and you get rid of
those two guys and now they're the seventh seeds. So
I mean, I give Jordan not a lot of credit
by basically saying, look, we're gonna be a team that
has to out work the other team and on most
nights to the harder playing team than the other team
they play. Now, most Knights are also not the more

(53:44):
talented teams, so they pretty much have to play hard.
But Dylan Boks has played really well. Devin Booker's played well.
I mean, obviously alder guys have done well. I give
credit to Jordan not too for playing con Gillespie. I
mean there's a guy who, like Mike Budenholzer would never
you know, that kind of things.

Speaker 4 (54:00):
So H.

Speaker 6 (54:01):
I think that he's given some opportunities to some guys
who would not have played on their previous regimes, and
that's been beneficial for them.

Speaker 4 (54:11):
Yeah, bottom five H.

Speaker 5 (54:14):
You have the MAVs at eleven nineteen, number eleven twelve,
the Jazz at ten eighteen, at thirteen, the Pelicans at
eight and twenty two H fourteen of.

Speaker 4 (54:23):
Course, the Clippers or Disasters seven.

Speaker 5 (54:24):
And twenty one and fifteen, the Sacramento Kings at seven
and twenty two.

Speaker 4 (54:29):
So the MAVs I expect to being playing on until
said and done.

Speaker 5 (54:32):
And I still think the MAVs are gonna be dangerous
if they can get to play in They're like like
who like I described Milwaukee and a couple of teams
in the initial conference that get to play in on
the Clippers rather, they'll be dangerous. I'm not ready to
put to put to put the pastors, uh Clippers and
pastors yet, because I still think either Portland mempers are
gonna fall out this name. So I still think the

(54:55):
Clippers will find a way come hello, hoigh Water to
get to number ten. If anything five in the basket
we played so for you will stands out here in
the botify.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Uh all that's good.

Speaker 6 (55:08):
Let me piggyback onto the Clippers. I mean we mentioned
it before. They have no incentive to tank, so I mean,
would it surprise me if they caught Portland not at all?

Speaker 2 (55:17):
I do agree with you on Dallas too.

Speaker 6 (55:19):
I would not imagine that they're going to trade Anthony
Davis and are you sharing his.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Name a lot? I feel like having that presence with
Cooper Flag. I think there's benefit to that, Like Dallas
already has the good young player.

Speaker 6 (55:33):
I think that you don't want to have a good
young player with nothing around him and be in a
situation like the Wizards where you're kind of like rudderless
as you're trying to get this guy acclimated to start
them as it were. So the only way I would
see them trading him is if they're getting some ridiculous
haul back that they then.

Speaker 4 (55:53):
And to boot.

Speaker 5 (55:54):
I mean, we've heard nothing about this right now, the
Kyrie Irving Wood all if they're competitive by talking with
the February.

Speaker 4 (56:01):
Now, we don't know, haven't said that.

Speaker 5 (56:03):
We don't know where Kyrie is recovery pubably true.

Speaker 6 (56:08):
But I mean, if you were to come back and
you have let's say he comes back in March, let's
put him on the Tatum timeline. If you're Kyrie and
you have a D and you have Cooper Flag, and
then you also have your PJ. Washington's, your Naujie Marshalls,
your Clay you know, you're Klay Thompson's of the world. Like,
that's not a bad team. You know, if if they
were to finish as the eighth seed, and let's say

(56:30):
they won the play in and they finished seventh, like
if I were San Antonio or Denver, I wouldn't want
to play them in.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
The first round.

Speaker 6 (56:38):
I mean, those teams would still be favored. But yeah,
that's still yeah, it's a frisky team. Uh And the
only other thing in that play and that I will
know is that I'd imagine the Jazz are going to
drop down. I'm linking this to Okay see because Okac
has a they have the Jazz pick if it's after
pick eight, so the Jazz pick is top eight protected.

(57:01):
The Jazz are incentivized to tank this year, They're not
incentivized to make the playoffs. Great start to the season
for them, but I think it would behoove them to
not give that pick to Okay see I mean again, Okay,
se could wind up with multiple lottery picks this year,
so you know, they could wind up with a Clippers
pick at five and then the Jazz pick at twelve

(57:21):
in a deep draft.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
So yeah, but that's what I look at there.

Speaker 6 (57:27):
I imagine the Jazz are going to drop back and
you're gonna see teams like the Clippers and the Pelicans
probably pass them.

Speaker 4 (57:33):
Insane, insane.

Speaker 5 (57:34):
And this is the update right now for through the
twenty seconds, Greg, we try to go three to four
five minutes impossible. We get these discussions. So what you
wanna plug anything?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Anything?

Speaker 4 (57:46):
Want to plug you want?

Speaker 2 (57:48):
So I've got no products to plug.

Speaker 6 (57:51):
I thank you for having me on and as always,
look forward to the next time your book.

Speaker 4 (57:55):
Also you have did you wrote ten years ago? You know?

Speaker 2 (57:58):
I mean it still exists, exists, which.

Speaker 4 (58:02):
My way, I do plug it on the show all
the time. I put it on the notes.

Speaker 2 (58:05):
You're on here, so I appreciate that.

Speaker 4 (58:07):
So greg Ry Christmas t brother yep.

Speaker 2 (58:10):
Likewise, I look forward to doing it again soon.

Speaker 4 (58:12):
Definitely m