Marc Francois

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
The Earnestly Speaking Podcast is a show that is founded
on free flowing conversation and may it times venture into
mature subjects. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah, earnestly speaking podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:23):
This kidd is how much youngan in New York give
my yammy carry heed so much more to storm my
productive flood the street. Opinion Nation God fama ceoh hofit
the Lynn he's gonna see me got a hustle on,
no limitation, no mad arm me your me touchables, opinion nations,
tab never re all season homemade and checked the numblice

(00:46):
her dropping.

Speaker 4 (00:47):
My old mate, supply your son the comfort.

Speaker 2 (00:49):
Earnestly speaking, My ego is well faced, earnestly speaking to
people they know thread see, I'm like a hurricane dura
mile breeze earnestly speakingly.

Speaker 4 (01:16):
Where's your podcast? Uh? Sorry that was caught off on nowhere?
Uh that was weird. Literally not me out out of nowhere.
Mark Prince Waller with his course friend activists on.

Speaker 5 (01:26):
What's going on the music course?

Speaker 4 (01:28):
Was it still playing? The music still playing? That stopped
at nowhere?

Speaker 5 (01:33):
Sorry? I was suggesting my camera.

Speaker 4 (01:36):
Because I was literally yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:38):
Well no, no, you did you did have a gap of
about fifteen seconds there.

Speaker 4 (01:42):
Okay, because I was I was literally in post whatever
it is, what it is? No, I was literally about
to come in and do the intro and then all
of a sudden it knocked me out in a stream yar.
I'm like, the fuck was that?

Speaker 5 (01:54):
Like?

Speaker 4 (01:54):
I didn't plan that, that was not part of the gig.
And come back here in the music is done playing.
I'm like, oh, okay, anyway, walk was one of money
due much man.

Speaker 5 (02:02):
Well, actually potting Rosty day, frosty day in New York?

Speaker 4 (02:05):
What is it? What is it there?

Speaker 6 (02:06):
Now?

Speaker 5 (02:07):
Like forty five? I think today forty six something like that.
It's actually it's nicer than that today. It's probably went
when I went and got coffee, it's probably more.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
Like fifty two I which was forty five. Here right
now here where I'm sitting at it is seventy nine degrees.

Speaker 5 (02:21):
See, I would trade places with you and a heartbeat.

Speaker 4 (02:24):
No, you went now a heartbeat because I'm so you know.

Speaker 5 (02:26):
It's funny though, where I was in the mountains all summer,
it's actually colder there in Big Bear than it is
than it is here in New York. Right, it's crazy
because they're getting well, they're getting hit with like gnarly
rains in southern California and it's, uh, what apparently they're
calling on the news out there an atmospheric river out
of like Alaska, Russia, China, and so it just brings

(02:50):
that river of cold air, tons of rain obviously for
like San Diego, Orange County in LA. But means obviously
the snow level drops. And so anytime you hear, like
if you're following LA news, you hear the snow level
dropp into like two three thousand feet, big Bear is
gonna get good snow because the city's at six thousand.
So that means it's going to be cold enough that

(03:11):
you're you're like getting actually nice cover, not like weird
like sleety slush, you know, right, it's kind of flurries.

Speaker 4 (03:21):
This is kind of weird though for us, Like we
were podcasting again, listen two weeks after you did the
last pot Yeah, right, well, at least back in the day,
we will record every other week or every week.

Speaker 5 (03:30):
Sometimes between between news and sports. We'd kind of be
remiss if we didn't.

Speaker 4 (03:34):
Right now, yeah, it's not going on, man, especially in
the political world.

Speaker 5 (03:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (03:38):
So the last time we talked about twelve days ago,
that was rafter Mom Donnie won the major's race and
Democrats did bring down correct stuns over now since then,
fuck Chuck Schumer. Of course he's gotta go. He's got
to go.

Speaker 5 (03:53):
He's got Chuck Shumor dwarfs by the way, seven spineless dwarfs.

Speaker 4 (04:00):
He did that because I think he knows because no one,
he's not up for re election to twenty twenty eight.
He's probably not gonna run again most likely, I think.

Speaker 5 (04:07):
I think if yeah it was, it weren't all eight
defectors not up till twenty.

Speaker 4 (04:10):
Twenty eight or something? Yeah, yeah, so you want to you,
if you're a Democrat pissed off at masstyle, you've got
to hope that you have a long brain, a long memory.

Speaker 5 (04:18):
Yeah, although you know, based on the degree of stubbornness
of the opposition, I don't I don't see them out
running it when you I think, well, because I think
it's twofold. I think that the more fascistic elements of

(04:40):
our opposition are undoubtedly doubling down at every turn. And
then you know, conversely to that, you have like Mamdannie
winning and demonstrating how really appealing to the working class
and embracing Dare I say socialism is a win, is

(05:02):
a winning pathway, is a winning pathway forward. So I
think with those two things being true, those especially in
places because I believe one of them was Fetterman.

Speaker 4 (05:14):
For example, right right, Yes, definitely, yeah.

Speaker 5 (05:17):
I think in places like New York and PA where
people are hurting especially bad. You know, whether it's you know,
whether it's rural communities in Pennsylvania or like suburban towns
and on Long Island in Westchester or the city. You know,
at least in the city you've got Mom, Donnie, you know.
Who's to say how much of his campaign promises he's

(05:38):
actually going to be able to enact. He's still got
the New York City Council and borough presidents to contend with.
But like that, notwithstanding, at least he's doing something. And
I think that juxtaposition is going to cast a unfavorable cast,
an unfavorable light on Senators Schumer, Fetterman, and their six

(06:02):
other compatriots.

Speaker 4 (06:03):
I did say, though, if he does like the five
things you promise, he does two or three of them,
it's a win. Yep. In this in this climate, it's
a win well.

Speaker 5 (06:13):
And like right now, for example, MTA I believe it
either it was two ninety and it's going up to
either three or three ten uh for for subway. But
then there's some like transfer rules that they're opening up
or something. And I like, even if he stops the schedule,

(06:36):
the like the scheduled, he increases on on the subway
and dare I say even rolls them back a little
bit like that would do a ton And especially when,
for example, a huge scandal was just uncovered, one of
the biggest it it turned what turned in what started
as a simple case of a more or less scanned

(07:00):
and reprinted MTA I D turned into like an eight
or nine figure scam that ripped off that ripped off
the MTA for something like approaching or exceeding one hundred
dollars over l irfares. Like when you've got those stories

(07:21):
in the local news and fairs scheduled, you know, posters
all over the subway platforms that shit's going up again,
you know, and then similar things happening, say wide, whether
you're in Rochester, series or Albany or Buffalo, like sh
it's not easy anywhere fier than Manhattan. But yeah, it's

(07:43):
not easy. I think that's I think that's going to
come back to buy Schumer in the ass. And if anybody,
if anybody comes forward with policies that for state wide
and federal uh, for state and federal policies that I've
slee a senator would be dealing with. I think anybody

(08:03):
even approaching mom Donnie's campaign platform is going to destroy,
you know, whomever the Schumer heir apparent is, Like, I
don't think he's tiring in twenty twenty eight.

Speaker 4 (08:15):
I don't think. No, he hasn't said that. I'm mis
predicting it because I mean, he has to be like
ninety four, that's my point. I think he knows that
his time is up. He knows he'll get primary by
aoc her one for that seat she will win and
what she won find.

Speaker 5 (08:31):
So yeah, I just assumed it was a foregone conclusion.
He wasn't read she was in the toilet. She was
in the toilet. Oh yeah, his his, his and Hackeen
Jeffreys approval numbers have to be like close to Donald
Trump's like bad bad, Yeah, well, I haven't looked. I

(08:52):
don't know.

Speaker 4 (08:53):
Well, Trump was a caving now and you know, and.

Speaker 5 (08:58):
With core groups to yes, with non college educated white
men and ship.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
That that that that to him to the White House
in last year. Yeah, and now you have this ship
now was the main reason I wanted you on the
show day the Epstein files. Officially, I'm gonna be released.
The House, the Senate all voted for it. Trump supposedly
signed the bill last night. Signed the.

Speaker 5 (09:20):
Use they had they had overwhelming ability to override a
veto correct. I don't know about maybe I want I
want to say it was like I say, I am
near damn near unanimous.

Speaker 4 (09:33):
Yeah, only one voter, Like what about what? I want
to know who that one voter was that didn't vote
for in the House. It was for twenty seven to one.
I can tell you it was.

Speaker 5 (09:42):
Come on in the house, Mike, Mike Johnson. I mean,
I don't know. Okay, this is this is obvious distributed,
distributed and broadcast content. So let me let me couch
myself because my sister, the attorney, was this right now.
But yeah, I like that you said filibuster instead of vamp.

(10:05):
That was cute. But no, it's got to be Mike
Johnson because he's the biggest. He's the biggest puppet in
UH in the House number one and number two. I
would think A, given the state and district he comes from,
there's absolutely no chance unless he got primaried that he's

(10:28):
losing his place, and b that his overall position in
federal government hinges more on his ability to kowtow to Trump.
Like so many, it's like, oh, Trump over everything. And
so for example, even if he gets primary, who gives

(10:48):
his ship. They'll make him a cabinet secretary, They'll make
him an advisor, he'll go do turning point media, you
know whatever. It is like he'll he'll get put on
a back burner and then he'll get a position elsewhere,
you know what I mean. Like we we all know
how the rotating door works. So yeah, if it's one
person holding out, I gotta think it's I.

Speaker 4 (11:08):
Gotta think it's well.

Speaker 5 (11:10):
And that's that's an that's an educated guess.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
But I have the answer here. The winner.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
It feels fairly obvious.

Speaker 4 (11:16):
The representative that is UH who did not vote to
pass the bill is it is not Mike Johnson. It
is no kidding Representative Clay Higgins in Louisiana.

Speaker 5 (11:33):
Well, I guess most of the things I guess also
apply to Clay Higgins.

Speaker 4 (11:45):
I think Mike John pressure Justice also for re election
next year to also so he has to be right
care of it.

Speaker 5 (11:52):
I'm often shocked, but rarely surprised anymore. And uh, that one,
that one surprised me.

Speaker 4 (11:58):
Well, you this though, the Epstein thing overall, like my
has been for years, like I don't care. And the
reason I don't care is this, Actually I don't care.

Speaker 5 (12:08):
What to pick them is obviously is that you're not
You don't care about sort of the horse race coverage
of it. It's like call me, call me when we
call me when there we have the bone, the meat,
the gristle, and it's all there. I don't mostly that,
but really markled out over five years, take twelve years.

Speaker 6 (12:24):
Right.

Speaker 4 (12:25):
The reason why I don't care necessarily either I care
about now because it's in the news, is because I
know at the end of the day, regardless of who's
in power, it won't be on the up and up
because I don't trust any of these governments at all.
I just don't.

Speaker 5 (12:38):
Okay, so there's a there's a content creator. I think
you're absolutely correct, because obviously you know The immediate skeptics
response is, well, who gives this ship if it's coming out?
Because Cash Mittel and Pam BONDI have been scrubbing it
for how long?

Speaker 4 (12:53):
How right?

Speaker 5 (12:54):
You know? Okay? True? However, this is where I was
going with this. There's a content creator I follow, and
my mom and I are always sending her reels back
and forth, fucking fantastic like news, history, politics, contexts. Creator
really her handle, I think I want to say, is
Amanda's mild takes. You've probably seen my shit on her

(13:17):
her shit on my stories before, because I've posted it
a dozen and twelve times a dozen plus twelve more times,
you know. Um So, Anyhow, Amanda was actually explaining this
that even if they redact a whole bunch of shit
and try to cover up a bunch of the names,

(13:41):
there's too many hands that have had access to corroborating
documents to be able to keep it a secret. Like, yes,
that will delay it, but ultimately, for example, all the
banking records, I'll be able like based on what is shown.
I mean, unless it's it's just you know, eighteen hundred

(14:05):
pages of black yeah, you know, but if they're also
the other thing, is come on, I said the same
I said the same thing to my mom on the
phone when we were talking about this. We're not exactly
talking about legendary figures of intelligence, espionage and uh account

(14:33):
and and god, I can't think of the word, but
you know what I'm saying, like, these are not the
best and brightest people. So even if they're scrubbing and
reacting the records, I don't imagine they're doing a very
good job. And they're gonna leave. There's gonna be holes
in their work. Yeah, And I think they're not good
at this.

Speaker 4 (14:54):
Is it.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
They're corrupt, it's all ship, but they're not good at this.

Speaker 4 (14:58):
And the things to also what I've stuff of me
in the Trumpet all especially two is that Donald Trump's
behavior since then Ebsteen files started becoming a thing again
in the news that two weeks ago, it's been very erratic.
It's been very erratic. Yeah.

Speaker 5 (15:13):
Well, and I think it's a combination of things. I think,
you know, having nothing necessarily to do with Donald Trump.
We talk about obviously how much the presidency ages any person.
Look at any person, especially in the last sixty years,
who served.

Speaker 4 (15:30):
To Obama terms Obama.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
Look at what they look like at the beginning, and
look at what they look like on the next president's
inauguration date. They look like they've aged thirty years. And
even a strapping lad such as Obama exactly. Yeah, that
shit takes years off your life. And Donald Trump was
not a healthy man when he won the twenty twenty

(15:52):
four election.

Speaker 4 (15:53):
Shit, yeah, I do believe the some health issues that
I believe them.

Speaker 5 (15:59):
So I think it's the natural sort of extreme rigors
of the presidency. Even for somebody who's phoning it in,
it's still like it's not taken as many years off
his life as it did Barack George or a Bill,
but it's still it's still accelerating.

Speaker 4 (16:16):
His decline, it is.

Speaker 5 (16:18):
And then so you've got that, and then you've got like,
obviously you can't diagnose somebody from a picture or an
interview or a rally, but certain things are just fucking obvious,
And like anybody who's watched the pit or er can

(16:39):
identify some of the things happening with the president. And
while they may not be able to hit the nail
on the diagnostic head, any fucking idiot can see that
person is not well.

Speaker 4 (16:51):
Yeah, Like, yeah, I agree with you, and you here's
the thing.

Speaker 5 (16:56):
You don't have to be a geriatric medicine at fucking
Harvard Medical to know that that person is not a help.

Speaker 4 (17:08):
And here's the thing work too. Also in the past,
this wouldn't be a big deal, you know, even for
the people who support him, if the econ was was
doing well.

Speaker 5 (17:18):
Well, that's just it, you know, because that's always been
That's always been the reasonable man's like argument for whole economies,
and he always has encounter to my Hillary is the
person who goes well. Donald Trump is a fucking nonsensical
asshole and a clown. But at the end of the day,

(17:38):
my four oh one k does better when he's in office.

Speaker 4 (17:42):
Now you can't say that right now.

Speaker 5 (17:45):
Well, so here's the fucked up part. This is where
this is where liberals and progressives, socialists and communists and
anarchists run into problems. Is the person, like so many
people I know in my hometown, raised culturally conservative, as

(18:10):
a household likely makes somewhere between two hundred and five
hundred thousand dollars. This is important, that's right. And yeah,
household so because obviously it's a lot of two parent homes.
Like if we're talking millennials and like millennials, elder millennials
and gen xers in my hometown area that like own homes,

(18:34):
and the same mostly holds true on Long Island as well,
because socioeconomically, where I grew up and where I live
are two very similar places and so culturally very different. However,
the point is, so you have, like I said, raised
culturally conservative, likely a household income between two hundred and

(18:58):
fifty and five hundred thousand, and then they are people that,
because they're overwhelmingly white, privileged, or both, they have access
to financial instruments that the general public and especially notably
black and brown people don't overwhelmingly have access to. And

(19:20):
those financial instruments that are anchored in the securities markets,
whether it's the bonds market, the commodity stocks, what have you,
your four one ks, your iras, these investment accounts, CDs,
very whatever. People that have six figure incomes that can
dabble in these more elevated investment vehicles are not necessarily

(19:44):
feeling the burn the same as everybody else because while
their income is down and their expenses are up, their
investments are still But that's maybe it's arbitrary, it's manufacturing.

Speaker 4 (19:57):
It's not. It's not.

Speaker 5 (20:00):
I'm explaining to you what the hurdle is for those
but like what, like I said, the noseholder will cite
as their argument. They're like, well, yeah, I am paying
more for groceries, and I am pissed off about that.
But that's only because the fucking Democrats won't let Donald
Trump do what he needs to do to get us
the rest of the way. There, my four to one
case performing, my husband's IRA is performing, my CD is

(20:23):
up eight percent over last year's performance, but fucking eggs
still cost eleven dollars because of humor. And however, in
these goddamnits.

Speaker 4 (20:32):
Most people's country don't make that household income most people's country.

Speaker 5 (20:39):
And to your point, though, I'm saying, this is a
very specific, this is a very specific hurdle for message.

Speaker 4 (20:45):
Right, But a lot of Trump's bas though that vote
from four to not necessarily base, but people vote from
who who public vote Democratic passed but decided to go
theell away, you know, for the for the reason they
said the economy that was better on him. I get
all that. You can't claim that right now because the
economy has not gotten better. People say I got some

(21:06):
on my really close friends love him death, great, great,
trusting my kids, the whole line. But he's very maga
and we have excellent discussions about politics, and last time
you got into them because like, there's nothing that Trump
can do that that he was never saying. And I
told him that, I called him, Michael, dude, there's nothing
that Trump can do that you will never leave him

(21:27):
at this point, like he got you, he's got you,
like great fact that you're using the same way.

Speaker 5 (21:32):
It's twofold. So I'm gonna cross my fingers to stop
interrupting you.

Speaker 4 (21:36):
Okay, No, I'm gonna point out trud so like the
things he says that Trump is doing, like the market's
great and it's net Well, the market was.

Speaker 5 (21:45):
I make twenty four dollars an hour working in a
working in a machine shop. You don't have a four one.

Speaker 4 (21:50):
That's what I'm saying. No, but the thing is the
market was great. Also on the Biden and you guys
said that it didn't it didn't matter in place was
inflation was better.

Speaker 5 (21:58):
And I told him that individual things are still performing.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
So I told them, like you can apply the same
argument that uses its Biden three years ago. But it's
the same goddamn thing, the same, the same exact scenario anything,
and I use it to use it for Trump. No,
I'm playing on your bullshit. You can't do that.

Speaker 5 (22:13):
Yeah, so that person to me, okay, so what we
are seeing, let's first let's first qualify, like, because we're
talking about something incredibly granular. So I imagine like the
average like popcorn eater, casual consumer would be like, what
the fuck are you guys talking about? Like the the
Democrats just swept the shit out of every election they
could because over affordability. Yes, all true, We're talking about

(22:36):
a very specific subset of quoters. So qualifying that anyway,
to me, that person that you're describing, Ernest, almost one
hundred percent of the time falls into one of two,
if not both categories. How race, you're either or three sorry, racist, misogynist,

(22:58):
total fucking maga cultists he's that racist? Or well okay,
so then then it's cultist, it's it's tribal, and you
know what that boils down to more, in my opinion,
is like if you're let's take away the maga part
of it and just lump it and juxtapose it with

(23:18):
any call whether it's fucking Nixium or the half a
dozen different dudes in Michigan and Wisconsin that Robert Evans
has done stories about, or Heaven's Gate. Yeah, put jonestown
any of them. The point is, the people that get
caught up into these things are almost one hundred percent

(23:39):
are in large swaths. I don't want to overstate it,
but in large swaths of the people that get caught
up into these things are people who have always struggled
to belong, have this like sort of yearning for tribalism, family,
a community, what have you, and through a confluence of
different circumstances, find themselves at a point in their lives

(24:02):
at the feet of a predator, and a predator takes
the coupling of their like lifelong yearning for a family
and a community and then capitalizes on their specific, like
circumstantial hardship to abuse and manipulate them. And that's exactly

(24:25):
what the fuck Trump does with poor, uneducated people. They
take it. You know, these are people who have felt lost,
they have felt disconnected from their community, so many a thing.
You know, let's let's go this far. Even if say,
like your homie isn't racist, I know I don't know,

(24:46):
but I'm saying, what are the odds that said homie
grew up in a household where his aunt's uncle's parents,
grandparents freely said the N word. He might have knew
it was wrong, but it was it. That's the culture.

Speaker 4 (25:02):
You It's very possible. I can't speak again.

Speaker 5 (25:03):
So where going with this is that for a white
person who's doing the work of decolonizing their mind and
interrogating that thinking, maybe he's not gone so far as
to be an abolitionist or anti racist in his decolonization journey,
but at the very least he knows saying the N
word is wrong. I don't fuck with that. I don't
have any problem with who drinks from what drinking fountain? Granny,

(25:27):
You're crazy like he's at least made it that far
in the journey. Where the problem comes in is for
somebody like that, they've always sought belonging, they've always saw
it a place, and Trump capitalized on all of their grievances.

Speaker 4 (25:43):
You just described the males that came for him in
this last election, a lot of white males, but the
males who felt disconnected and.

Speaker 5 (25:53):
No attention feel a community with Trump, and so it's
more important in the It's really more honestly to me,
it reminds me of things that like friends of mine
who were going coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan would say,
and it was that. The long and the short of

(26:15):
it is like I was talking to one of my
best friends from high school. It was after like his
second deployment, And so his first deployment, he was basically
a fucking gate guard at an air strip. He didn't
really have to do anything crazy. The most like difficult.
I'm not downplaying it, but this is like me retelling
his version of the story. Right, the most traumatic thing

(26:37):
which was traumatic and put him in therapy, but the
most traumatic thing he endured was having to escort some
caskets onto a C one thirty. Like he wasn't in
the fox hole with the guys, you know what I mean.
So his word's not mine. Point being his second deployment,
he had since gone to airborne school and scout sniper's school,

(27:00):
and while he didn't have to do anything super crazy,
he was certainly party to a lot of crazy shit.
And where I'm going with this is to say that
in that situation, he goes, look did I sign up
for all the like urah nine to eleven, fuck Osama
bin Laden reasons. Of course I did well that and

(27:20):
I had no prospects of going to college. It was
my most stable opportunity for income. And fuck Osama bin Laden, right,
like that's what it was. He joined he joined up.
I took him. I took him to the airport to
ship out to boot camp. And that would have been
like November of two, so you know, fourteen months after

(27:42):
nine to eleven. So you can imagine like what the
sentiment was, you know, around joining the military at that time.
And so the point where I'm going with all of
this is to say he was talking about like I
signed up for all those like oohrah patriotism. I you know,
I need you, Uncle Sam needs you reasons. But after
actually being in the ship and seeing what takes place

(28:03):
in a war zone, it becomes about the person next
to you and what how that relates to the cultism
and the tribalism associated with you know, people like your
homie who have no good logical reason for staying on
that side of the line, like dude, I don't know
why you're hanging out under the tent. They don't even

(28:24):
have good snacks like.

Speaker 4 (28:28):
It's important though, but right, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (28:31):
Like their pretzels are stale as ship bro come on,
and they were the they were the like bottom shelf
like ppa plastic bucket ship come on, stop it, stop
with you.

Speaker 4 (28:42):
I'm with you.

Speaker 5 (28:44):
But no, it's it's more, it's become less about the
fucking racist tangerine on the stage and more about all
of the people he finds himself in community with and
now having an enemy and having something to focus your like, well,
why do they hate us? Will fuck them? They're libtards.

(29:06):
They they just don't get it, Okay, perfect, So I
have all these thousands of millions of other people that
I can hate these other people with, and I finally
have a place where I feel like I belong to
I'm surrounded by like minded people. It's the same line
of bullshit and why for example, like the pipeline from
video game to Reddit for them to red pill black like,

(29:34):
and it's all wrapped in right wing propaganda, like the
pathway from Call of Duty to school shooter is a
trip through the full spectrum of right wing bulk propaganda.

Speaker 4 (29:48):
Yep.

Speaker 5 (29:50):
And yeah, so it's it's it's like it's the same
cultist bullshit. It prays on the same vulnerabilities, the same
need for community, because one of the critic understandings that
helps an decolonizing white person to see these things is
understanding that whiteness is bullshit, arbitrary, and in the tens

(30:11):
of thousands of years that human civilization has existed, and
since we crawled out of the mock hundreds of millions
of years ago, whiteness has only existed as a concept
since about the early to mid seventeen hundreds, like even
enslaved people in Europe, like if you had to read

(30:32):
in middle school, like Iwan Dee Pereja, do you remember
that book? Did you ever have to read that one? No? Anyway,
it's the story. It's the story of an enslaved African
who is the property of the famous Renaissance painter from Spain, Velasquez,
and it's the story of his life. I can't remember

(30:55):
if it's like his. I think it's one of those
things like Johnny Tremaine, that's historical fiction that's meant to illustrate,
like paint a picture of a time and help you
understand somebody what somebody's life circumstances historically would be if
they interacted with these people and walk this path, but
they ultimately one day Padre had never fucking existed. You know.

(31:18):
It could be an amalgamation of different recorded tales of
enslaved people. I really don't remember, right. Point is, whiteness
was not a thing in that it was just that
he happened to be black in the country that that
black man happened to be from got conquered by Spanish people.
But it didn't have anything to do with melanin content.

(31:39):
It was just our cannon's minus your swords equal you
in chains like. No, it was way more simplistic than that.
The whole whiteness thing didn't become and it didn't come
about until it became an engine of profitability. Let me
ask you this forcing profitability. So the point is, there

(32:02):
is no such thing as whiteness. And if you're a
white person, so like I don't have oh white pride
or investment in white culture. No, I'm Belgian, I am
Belgian Germanic, and I am a mix. I am a
Mutt of the various British isles. So when I want
to pursue my heritage and my culture, I look to Ireland, Wales, Scotland, Belgium,

(32:27):
and Germany. So what talking about, uh.

Speaker 4 (32:34):
Apply a black person. If I want to see my
my culture, it would be the same thing, right, I
look to English, Portuguese, Indian, Chinese.

Speaker 5 (32:43):
I mean no, I mean in a way, in a way, yes,
But I guess that depends. I guess that depends on
what hemisphere your family has resided in for the last
hundred years. Because I imagine your team you have to
make this point. Is that, for example, as we've seen
watching like Know Your Roots on PBS. Yeah, black celebrities,
Black celebrities family trees tend to be a whole lot

(33:04):
more pruned than white celebrities family trees. Oh why is that?
Because they were cattle and they didn't have names, their
parentage wasn't tracked, they weren't included in censuses. So a
whole fuck ton of North South American and Caribbean black
folks their family trees don't extend beyond about the eighteen

(33:29):
forties if they're lucky, right, So obviously it becomes that's
why the difference when you talk about sort of like
Pan African, pan blackness or like different things that sort
of encompass the whole like why, for take perfect example,
is like why why at a black wedding in New

(33:50):
Jersey when I see people jumping over a broom? There
wasn't there? There were, there were no nobody was speaking
to nobody was speaking ebo I did, nobody was, Nobody
was wearing dashikis.

Speaker 4 (34:05):
My wedding?

Speaker 5 (34:07):
No. But that's kind of the whole point though, is,
for example, traditions like jumping over the broom which tend
to sort of span the spectrum of blackness that it
was one of those cultural traditions that permeates the diaspora.
It's why is it? Well, Because when a whole bunch
of different black folks from Togo and Kenya and Nigeria

(34:30):
and wherever the fuck else Ghana were stuck in a
holding pen in Porto, prints waiting to be distributed to
some fucking sugar plantation, little tribal because they didn't speak
the same languages, they didn't have the same tribal traditions,
they didn't have the same beads, they didn't have the
same clothing. They were just they only had the same

(34:50):
skin color and circumstances. So little traditions of different tribes
tended to permeate and become Haitian traditions, createle traditions, Cajuns,
you know, black Southern traditions. Whatever. That's why it's a
little different when you talk about blackness and brownness being
sort of a more inclusive thing and why whiteness that

(35:11):
doesn't apply because the only reason blackness and brownness exist
is because whiteness was used to enforce capitalism and created
those categories in the first place, right, and you know,
colonize those people and use them as cogs in the
engineering of capitalism.

Speaker 4 (35:32):
Let me ask you this back on topic with the
Epstein and Trump thing.

Speaker 5 (35:35):
Yeah, sorry, does this point of all that, point of
all that that took us way off all track? Let
me just say this, no, no, no, this is the
link back into the segue. I swear to god it
was that I was saying. Even if everything is redacted
to ship, if they leave any breadcrumbs whatsoever, what's going
to end up unveiling those reactions is the financial records.

(35:59):
Because on the other side of those investigative reports and
all of those transcripts where they're gonna black people's names out,
there's corresponding bank transfers flight records, but way too many
people have access to the other side of the telephone.
Not to mention, God only knows what foreign intelligence agency
is looking at you. Russia and Israel have access to

(36:23):
who knows what relative to these things. So there's just
way too many people that would know that. Like, I
don't care how much fucking magic markers, Cash Betel and
Pambondi take to that thing, like the information is coming out.

Speaker 4 (36:37):
Right and anyway, go on, go on, you go back
and do it. But you do have people strong people
in his camp turn on him, most.

Speaker 5 (36:45):
Notably because you know, it's it's kind of beautiful, it's
it's it's one of the most hilarious leopardy faces moment
in all of this, because they are literally so fanatical
to his cause and so devoted to the talking points
that he's been spewing for the last few years, which

(37:06):
is trying to roast every fucking neoliberal and pin Epstein
on them. And that's not to say there aren't a
whole bunch of fucking neoliberal icons in the Epstein reports
and who were doing horrible things with children, betting that's
all true. However, now you have a whole bunch of
Republican Epstein truthers that are like, yeah, we want Bill

(37:27):
Clinton's ass. I want to know what Michelle Obama was
doing in the basement of that pizza parlor in New Jersey.
Goddamn it, like he could at least the fucking name.

Speaker 4 (37:37):
To come out.

Speaker 5 (37:38):
They're not gonna be.

Speaker 4 (37:40):
Politics and play the side.

Speaker 5 (37:43):
Yeah, well no, because it's like the the fanaticism has
gone completely round the bend and brought them around, like
around to the other side, right record, So now he's
kind of fucked because he's been spewing this ship for
for eight years or whatever. He can mark, are you
talking campaign on this?

Speaker 4 (38:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (38:03):
So now all these all these crazy maga fanatics, whether
it's you know, somebody of a DeSantis type or a
Marjorie Taylor Green type or Clay Higgins or whomever, Matt
Gait whatever, these are all people that have been screaming
for years and years that they want to like crucify
Bill Clinton and Joe Biden and Barack Obama in the
streets because they're trafficking children to drink their blood and

(38:25):
like all this crazy shit that we've heard. You know,
I'm totally connecting dots that have nothing to do with
each other, like painting an absurd picture on purpose. I'm
being hyperbolic, just couching, but like, yeah, it's like okay,
so you gotta do it now does Honestly I could
give a ship what side of the aisle somebody's uh

(38:47):
somebody falls on, or what what party they're registers. If
you did horrible things to facilitate, if you did anything
in the furtherance of trafficking children, whether you participated it,
you mastermind it, or you look the other ways so
that it could happen and kept your fucking mouth shut
because you, like the parties, the pedophile through whatever any

(39:10):
role in it you had, you deserve to fry and
be excommunicated from public society or like from public life.

Speaker 4 (39:18):
Yes.

Speaker 5 (39:20):
Yes, if zoron mom Donnie came out tomorrow as Jeffrey
Epstein's right hand.

Speaker 4 (39:28):
He fucked yeah.

Speaker 5 (39:30):
You know like why why, that's why why fanatical tribalism
with politicians is inherently both dangerous and stupid because it
makes you devoid it like it makes the commitment and
the community more important than fact. And this is fucking
politics and policy. This isn't sports.

Speaker 4 (39:52):
Thank you. You said, you fucking nailed it right there.

Speaker 5 (39:56):
You know, if sports was politics, every everybody should be
a Dodger fan, you know what I mean. Because that's
the best solution, that's the best organization, that's the best,
the best, you know what I mean. That's like doing it.
The Dodger way is conceivably best for everybody. So why
isn't everybody a Dodger fan? Because it's fucking sports, and
it's emotional, and it's geographic, and it's tribal, and fuck

(40:19):
San Francisco and beat l A and fuck the Yankees
and the Mets are trash, you know what I mean.
But politics shouldn't be that.

Speaker 4 (40:30):
It hasn't been.

Speaker 5 (40:30):
How much money are you putting in my bank account?
How much money are you taking out of my bank account?
How much control over my medical.

Speaker 4 (40:37):
Care you have?

Speaker 5 (40:38):
How easy is it for me to cause change in
my day to day life and the policies that are
affecting me? These are the things I give a fuck about.
It does so you hung out and who you party like?

Speaker 4 (40:50):
Mark? It does seem like those And it's not in
big numbers yet though, but you start to see pivoting
happening in the funk party now because well, yeah.

Speaker 5 (41:00):
You are seeing a big ship because motherfuckers are broke.

Speaker 4 (41:03):
Well only that, not only that after next year the midterms,
when when the Democrats, who should win back the House.
Donald Trump at that point isn't lame got president and
that point well, but obviously.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
The same too because obviously even if bills passed, he
won't sign them. So unless an overwhelming midterm shift takes
place to significantly change the makeup of both chambers number
one and number two, a whole lot of Republicans start
to defect from Daddy's way of doing things. No bills

(41:41):
are getting done because unless you got two thirds of
both chambers, you're not overriding a veto.

Speaker 4 (41:46):
Right, and the thing is too Also, you start seeing
people because at the twenty ay six, that's when people
start making a position to a president. How how toxic
is that ticket? Then if it becomes it does not improve. Okay,
the next year or two and the Republicans lose the
House in numbers like twenty eighteen for example. Okay, now

(42:08):
your situation where Trump can't necessarily saving it anymore because
he's up a reelection. Okay, now, what how do you
pivot now. So I think Martinella Green is doing something
here in the sense it might be a little of
grifting her on here.

Speaker 5 (42:21):
I mean, look here about but she's a broken clock,
you know.

Speaker 4 (42:27):
Yeah, but you know, for example, she she went one
end of this week and actually apologized for behaviorals to
this ship.

Speaker 5 (42:34):
Yeah. X.

Speaker 6 (42:35):
That President Trump is with his comments, fueling a quote
hotbed of threats against you. Obviously, any threats to your
safety are completely unacceptable, but we have seen these kinds
of attacks or criticism from the President at other people.
It's not new, and with respect, I haven't heard you

(42:55):
speak out about it until it was directed at.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
You, Dana. I think that's your criticism, and I would
like to say humbly, I'm sorry for our country. And
it's been something I've thought about a lot, especially since
Charlie Kirk was assassinated, is that we I'm only responsible

(43:21):
for myself and my own words and actions, and I
am going, I am committed, and I've been working on
this a lot lately to put down the knives and politics.
I really just want to see people be kind to
one another, and we need to figure out a new
path forward that is focused on the American people. Because

(43:42):
as Americans, no matter what side of the eye we're on,
we have far more in common than we have differences,
and we need to be able to respect each other
with our disagreements.

Speaker 4 (43:54):
But it's probably a grift. I play agree with grit,
but it's still listen, Mark, here's the thing, though, I
don't like her, okay, but here's reality. It takes a
lot of balls to go against Trump like this at
this point. Now, it's not very popular in the base.

Speaker 5 (44:12):
It's not okay, all right. So first, I literally just
listened to this like yesterday or the day before because
Higher Learning did one of Rachel's like apology ratings on this,
So I'm gonna you can tag them in the show
notes a Higher Learning Van and Rachel, because I want
to give credit where credit is due, because I'm totally
gonna fucking paraphrase what Rachel said because I couldn't agree more.

(44:34):
And it's that on a scale of one to ten,
this rating gets an NA not applicable. And here's why. Okay,
number one, she almost immediately came right out and all
but contradicted her statement by following up on Twitter some
social media platform, or releasing of statements some some form
or the other written communication that was not on camera

(44:54):
with Dana fucking Bash or whoever that was. That was
Dana Bash, Yeah, okay, but it wasn't on camera. And
she said, I'm who I've always been. I stand for
what I always stand for. Blah blah blah blah blah.
So she's still anti DEEI, she's still anti Trance, she's
still anti all these things. The bar is on the
fucking floor, and people are accepting breadcrumbs because politics has

(45:18):
devolved into such nonsense and madness that anything even resembling
logical thought has people going, my god, they've seen the.

Speaker 4 (45:27):
Lights that point. That's a great point.

Speaker 5 (45:30):
They haven't. It's just that you're so starved. Assault team
feels like a banquet, and then.

Speaker 4 (45:36):
It makes you wonder too. Also, is she pivoting for
a possible run at the senate postle run at My
buddy Jason said yesterday too, same guy earlier, he said that, uh,
she turned on front because uh, he wouldn't support her
in a pronunt races.

Speaker 5 (45:51):
She's trying to trick she Okay, you know what I
think she's trying to do because you know, we've talked
about this, this is again it's a granular subset. But
like at the end of the day, winning a statewide
election depends on getting at least some of the conservative
black folks who live in Fulton County and surrounding communities.

(46:11):
And when I talk about that, I mean people who
historically vote Democrat, but they hold their nose doing so
because everything about them is culturally aligned with conservatism, except
for the fact that the Republican Party leads into racism,
and that tends to take the Auntie from Church away
from the rhetoric side.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
Of the ticket.

Speaker 5 (46:28):
Correct, And what I think she's ultimately due doing is
pandering to Tito. She's trying to sound a little more measured,
a little more moderate, a little more reasonable, at least
at the again bars on the floor, she's admitting that
Jewish space lasers aren't a thing in all these conservatives.

(46:53):
At the end of the day, she's saying, yes, I'm sorry,
but she's not really taking full responsibility for the harm
that she caused. Like when you have a platform and
a and a megaphone that loud, and you're getting that
much media attention and that much camera time, like your
words matter, and has she done that in the traditions
you hold have impact. What about all that violence that's

(47:15):
happened to trans kids because of the crazy shit she
said over the last five mark?

Speaker 4 (47:19):
Has she done that though? Has she apologized naming hawk?
Has she polished apartment survivors? Has she done all those things?
Do you feel a bit different about that now or no?

Speaker 5 (47:25):
No, because she still supports the same policies support She's
just she basically she has a baseline aversion to abject stupidity. Congratulations,
like you have seven brain cells? Okay, Like I'm not
gonna give her a fucking cookie for that.

Speaker 4 (47:41):
Yeah, Okay, I present you.

Speaker 5 (47:42):
To like people are practically at her district office doors
with torches and pitchforks, because even middle class people who
make one hundred and forty thousand dollars a year can't
afford an apartment in her district kind of situation, and
like even like that makes no sense, like where the
poverty line has moved to? And things that. For example,

(48:05):
one of the little things in housing policy that I
just learned about today thanks to Avenue Warrior Studios is
have you heard of something called the residence score in renting?

Speaker 4 (48:17):
I I feel like I have, but I've never seen executed.

Speaker 5 (48:22):
Okay, So this is a new, completely unregulated metric by
which property management companies, specifically subsidiaries of large private equity
firms such as Blackrock, are doing to disqualify renters. You
have a credit score. We all know what a credit
score is. Anybody born after nineteen eighty knows what that is. Right. Well,

(48:47):
for those of you who are a little younger than
say Ernest and I that might be listening to this show,
what you may not know is credit scores have only
existed since nineteen eighty nine, and they were done. Is
that your guest, look it up.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
That's insane.

Speaker 5 (49:01):
Yeah, it was a Reagan policy. It's a limb on
the tree of all of that shit. We say that, like,
take any take anything you hate about your life circumstances
day to day, and blame Reagan. Nine times out of ten,
you're correct. Credit scores are thanks to Ronald Reagan. Ultimately,

(49:23):
they're fruit of that poison tree. So they're going one
step further though. There's this algorithm that takes into account
a whole variety of factors that it aggregates from available
data on the internet. This is why it's so important
to subscribe to scrubbing services that pull all your little
fucking breadcrumbs off the internet twenty four hours a day

(49:44):
because you never know what algorithms are collecting what data,
And so they're not just taking your credit score, your income,
and your references. They're also running all of your information
in all of your history that they can find. And
mind you, they've got your social security number, your driver's license, uh,
your residential history, references to your life which are likely

(50:06):
family members, which they can make all kinds of other
financial connections with through the internet. So the point is
they come up with this other score. And so Evany
was talking about this because he and his wife were
trying to get a new apartment and despite being according
to the terms of evaluation on the application, they were

(50:28):
more than qualified, income, credit history references, all boxes checked,
and so he called TransUnion figure out what the fuck happened,
Like five ninety was their credit score threshold. He didn't
exactly tell us his fighters score on his yeah, and
he was like, well, it's well, he goes, my credit
score is well over that, especially with my wives, And

(50:52):
so he called TransUnion to figure out what the hell happened,
and they're like well, you actually weren't disqualified because of
your income or your credit score. You were based It
says here that your rental application was denied because of
your residence score as a residence score, and so he
gets it explained to him, but what it is. But

(51:14):
that's about the equivalent of hitting the little lowercase I
in a PlayStation menu. It doesn't tell you how to
solve the problem, because the guy couldn't tell him what
it was based on what his residence score was, or
why that resident how that residence score informed the property
manager's decision to disqualify his application. Yea, he unregulated, has

(51:35):
nothing to do like Fairhousing Act has no language on this.
State housing laws have no language on this. Even a
city as out in front of this shit is New
York and with mom Donnie coming, I'd be shocked, Like
I wouldn't be surprised if he knows about it. But
it's one of those obscure, granular things that only people
like you and I pay attention to.

Speaker 4 (51:55):
Yeah, it's a thing, You're right, I'm looking to know,
Like it's a probably use of by landlord's probably managers,
predictable how likely that is to be a valuable tenant.
I mean it all sounds well intentioned on the surface obviously, Well, yeah,
because you want to be as a landlord, you do
want to protect yourself to also and.

Speaker 5 (52:13):
Is all we talk about. But it's all in service
of counteracting things that have created. Right, it's rooted in racism,
number one, because it's meant to stem the tide of
black and brown advancement by white replacement theory. Rich guys,
that's number one. But the unintended consequence to everyone else

(52:36):
and benefit to a very small percentage of people, is
that it also just generally disaffects most people. It's that,
through a confluence of circumstances, those things more acutely impact
black does everybody. Property, But that's college tuition, privatizing of healthcare,

(52:56):
fighter scores. That's all fruit of the same tree that
was tended to by Reagan and his accolytes right since
the sixties because it was it was a counter a
counter move to civil rights movement. Like there's another thing
you can look up. There's uh, it's called the Worker's
Bill of Rights. It was supposed to be like the

(53:18):
last phase of the of the New Deal, but Roosevelt
died in office and never got a chance to champion it,
and Truman wasn't for it. But look it up because
Bernie talks about it.

Speaker 4 (53:31):
Yeah, it's not a single binding federal law. And United
is right a broad set of principles demand advocated by
labor organizations, activists and some political figures, A good job
of fair wages, for quality healthcare, the right to organize,
pt O, pay time offen pessional scheduling, a safe job,
retire with dignity. It doesn't exist right now currently. There's

(53:54):
to be adopted a champion different levels.

Speaker 5 (53:56):
But it was it was supposed to be the the
abstract or another set of legislation that would build upon
what was established by the New Deal. Like I said
it was. It was it would be like the next
phase of the New Deal that would then continue to
expand the middle class and access to capital and socioeconomic ascension,

(54:20):
all of these things, and through workers' rights, you would
inherently fortify the quest for civil rights because, just like
in fighting wars, what helped spark the civil rights movement
the fact that white farm boys from Iowa were fighting
in trenches with black country boys from Louisiana, and then

(54:41):
they got home and went the fuck are we not
allowed to have breakfast together at the same diner. The
same tends to happen through labor.

Speaker 4 (54:50):
Organ yeahs subtle.

Speaker 5 (54:53):
Yeah, Like when you're a pipefitter in LA and you
work with fourteen guys named Pablo, you and then you
see Ice rating your work site, You're like, the fuck?

Speaker 4 (55:05):
All right?

Speaker 5 (55:05):
You know what I mean? So it radicalized, It radicalizes
in decloniz eight rights, decolonizes white.

Speaker 4 (55:15):
There you go. Yeah, here's exit. Here's the exit b
here for you of are of MTG because uh, she
called I don't.

Speaker 5 (55:24):
Buy her ship. I rate her. I rate her first
apology as incomplete because she's real accountability and she still
supports the same policy.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Here's a press for me yesterday, A trader by a
man that I fought for five no actually six years
for and I gave him my loyalty for free. I
won my first selection without his endorsement, beating eight men
in a primary. And I've never owed him anything, but

(55:54):
I fought for him, for the policies and for America first.
And he called me a trader for standing with these
women and refusing to take my name off the discharge petition.
Let me tell you what a trader is. A trader
is an American that serves foreign countries and themselves. A

(56:17):
patriot is an American that serves the United States of
America and Americans. Like the women standing behind me.

Speaker 5 (56:27):
I mean, so I'm going to jump right in and say,
right off the bat, your argument is rendered invalid because
of two words. Was it America First? Because for the
historians listening, they will know that America First is a
dog whistle to a fascist veil for right wing ideology.

(56:55):
That the before packs were packs, the America First Coalition
was a group of conservative It was a conservative think
tank and effectively pack just before they were called out.
Let's call it a proto pack in the nineteen thirties
and forties that Rachel Maddow does a lengthy podcast covering

(57:18):
was infiltrated by the Nazi propaganda machine insofar as they
were literally sending out American tailored Nazi propaganda. I mean,
I shit, you not shit that had been sent out
all over rural Germany was repackaged. The helmets were changed
a little bit, the faces were changed a little bit,

(57:38):
and the flags were changed a little bit. It was
frame for frame, slide for slide, Nazi propaganda approved by
Gebbels and distributed with American postage, paid for by American
tax dollars, and workers being paid whose wages were being
paid by American tax dollars out of the Capitol Congressional

(58:00):
offices were distributing Nazi propaganda, and it was being funded
by the America First coalition. So anytime I hear somebody
referencing America First, you're immediately fascist to me, or sus
fascist at the very least, because that's a dog whistle
to some shit that has been known and widely proven

(58:21):
to be have been co opted by the Nazison.

Speaker 4 (58:24):
Could I argue that depending her at all, because I
do I think the still grip behind this. Could I
argue that both be right here, that yes, it's definitely
dog whistle, but also the fact that there are there
are overlaps here politically speaking that you do have with
her in terms of how we spend money in America,
in terms of money cent in Israel especially too, and

(58:44):
she's been very vokeal about.

Speaker 5 (58:45):
That for a record, without looking it up, you know
what election season did Marjorie Taylor Green first? Like what
was her first session in Congress?

Speaker 4 (58:56):
I want to say, was it twenty nineteen? I think
once you won in twenty.

Speaker 5 (58:59):
Eighteen, I was at my point? Is it was well
after the twenty fifteen sixteen campaign season, Am I correct?

Speaker 4 (59:07):
Right?

Speaker 5 (59:08):
All right? Well, so you resent the fact that he
didn't like you because you a girl, and he picked
all the boys over you, and you beat them anyway,
and then the minute you got Daddy's favor, you kissed
the fucking ring. For years and years and years you
spouted nonsense, and then the minute Daddy turned on you

(59:29):
and wouldn't let you use his credit card no more,
suddenly as fuck Daddy.

Speaker 4 (59:34):
It's just I know I was wrong.

Speaker 5 (59:36):
I was glad. I'm glad. You're you're starting to see
some light. It is not nearly enough to remunerate the
harm that you've caused, the causes that you've advanced, and
you're still a fucking ghoul who supports terrible policies. It's

(59:57):
just that, like there's a handful of god awful policy.

Speaker 4 (01:00:01):
You gotta start somewhere you want, can't.

Speaker 5 (01:00:02):
I've got to start somewhere, brother, Yes, but I'm not
okay cool, It's like, all right, it'd be the equivalent
of like I'm failing algebra and come home to my
immigrant dad that I you know, by my next like
ten week progress report, I've pulled my grade up from
an F to a C. Well, see, he's not fucking

(01:00:22):
acceptable in my household either.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
We both agree. This is agree. However, I don't want
to get to the point where we're not allowing people
to change. If the change is real, if she starts
pivoting in a way where oh, okay, policies yes, and
then she's apologizing, right, then maybe it changed because we
have to we we gotta also be forgiving people well too,

(01:00:45):
alter if if if there was actually something to forgive,
and it was, it's.

Speaker 5 (01:00:48):
Authentic, one hundred percent true. Okay, So I said, what
you want me to give her a fucking cookie? I'll
correct myself. Yes, you can have a cookie, but don't
give her a god damn ticker take parade. That's more
the point. And I think you make a really salient
point because you're echoing something that Senator Brian Schatz said

(01:01:09):
almost verbatim. And again I have to throw credit to
Rachel on Higher Learning because it was her who highlighted
this when we were having when they were having that
like apology rating discussion, she and Van pointed to this
to make your exact point, and that is, Look, I'm
not gonna sit here and pat her on the forehead

(01:01:30):
and tell her she's a big brave girl because she
finally stood up to the most abhorrent and disgusting policies
that are like literally starving people and killing people. I
credit where credit due, but I'm not gonna over praise. However,
as to Brian Schatz's point, we can't sit here and

(01:01:52):
brate you and be immigrant parents about it and say
nothing is ever good enough, because at some point you
have to start bringing people in that you don't agree with,
because the people that agree with us full full bore
are not numerous enough to win fucking elections.

Speaker 4 (01:02:09):
You a couple of cycles because so you kind of
got to take.

Speaker 5 (01:02:13):
What you can get. And if it's enough that she'll
at least turn on Trump like okay, fine, like the same,
the same, she can at least get coffee. I'm not
I'm not saying we're getting back together.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
But we can at least get coffee with Candie Owan's
to also Cannison's same situation, and Candisonans has been very
vocal about the Israel ship for a couple of years.
Now it costs our job.

Speaker 5 (01:02:34):
Actually, all right, here's my thing. I'm hesitant because this
has been going on for ten years and you and
they both have made a fuck ton of money and
public profile growth because of perpetuating horrible things and and
and putting people down and demonizing innocent people, all kinds

(01:02:55):
of shit. Right, Granted you get one chance with me,
I will, I will. It's like I won't come for you,
but I'll at least be neutral about it, and to
your point, like, yes, well I accept Candice Owens voting
Democrat or turning on Trump or whatever. You know, let it.
You know, if Charlie Kirk is the thing that radicalized

(01:03:17):
if truthing Charlie Kirk is what radicalizes her, will, then
fuck it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:21):
Cool.

Speaker 5 (01:03:25):
My fear, my skepticism, and my cynicism. Tell me, though,
that if the winds shifted enough to where coming off
of that platform made financial or public opinion sense, they
changed your tune again in two fucking seconds. It didn't

(01:03:50):
in the conservative movement, it did in.

Speaker 4 (01:03:54):
The conservative atmosphere because well, at some.

Speaker 5 (01:04:00):
Point, you're never gonna please everybody. You just have you
that and this is that this is the problem that
we have with politics in why the sports and the
horse race of it have have pulled us so far
from fact. Stop caring about what people think and what
in trying to anticipate what they might vote for. And

(01:04:21):
I have a fucking idea, have a fucking principle and
stick to it. It's like there's a there's an episode
of The West Wing where I believe josh Is talking
to the pollster Joey Lewis or Joey Lucas okay, played
by Marley Mattlin.

Speaker 4 (01:04:38):
Phenomenal role by the way, Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:04:40):
Amazing, amazing character on that show. Her and YO shout
out to translator Kenny Uh. That guy, Like he had
a great radio voice. He nailed inflections with like great
comedic timing. Like it was all like the fact that
you were having a one on one conversation. You were

(01:05:02):
missing none of the context, none of the emotion, none
of the subtext, and it was three people talking two
different languages, and you just it. It was one of
the it was a really fucking awesome element of that show.
But the point is she was I forget what they
were arguing about. Specifically, I think it was at a

(01:05:22):
time pre reelection campaign when like Bartlett was just being
a pussy about everything. He was like just dipping his
toe in the water and about everything, and Leo finally
like kind of rips him a new asshole, and he's like,
take a stand for something to take. And Joey is
having a similar conversation with Josh and she's saying, it's

(01:05:44):
like the French radical who says, there go my people.
I must figure out where they're going so I can
lead them, And it's like, no, you need to just
have an idea that brings them to you. You need
to have a position that brings them to you. So
the point of all that is to say that, like

(01:06:05):
all of these politicians are so caught up in the
sports center and the fucking horse race that like, no,
stop trying to anticipate what's going to get people to move.
Just look, listen to what the people are telling you
they want and what they need, and then construct policies

(01:06:29):
or support policies that speak to and meaningfully address those
needs and then sell the shit out of that.

Speaker 4 (01:06:37):
Yeah, agreed, And the people will come to you if.

Speaker 5 (01:06:41):
You build it, they will come. Nobody is selling and
This is exactly why the Democrats lost. They were too
busy trying to anticipate what was fucking grabby and what
would move people across lines, instead of just saying, hey,
here's how I'm gonna get the national national minimum wage
up to fourteen dollars dollars an hour, and how that
will precipitate getting the local minimum wages in places like

(01:07:05):
Los Angeles and New York up to twenty two to
twenty three dollars an hour. That would have.

Speaker 4 (01:07:10):
Gotten They are they are the analytics crowd. Yeah, Republican
Party are the more motion.

Speaker 5 (01:07:17):
My dad used to always say, paralysis by analysis.

Speaker 4 (01:07:20):
Yeah, I agree, you know, but I do appreciate your
fact that.

Speaker 5 (01:07:25):
Yeah, you're so you're so busy, you're so busy guessing
what everybody's trying to do, you're not spending any time
being creative, innovative, or just having a fucking ideas well.

Speaker 4 (01:07:35):
Give Canizone's quite credit. Though, like the Israel things in news,
she came up. She didn't come on nowhere. This she
she challenged her boss. She challenged her boss on this
while she was employed by The Daily Wire on the
issues in Gaza, and she stuck her guns and it
costs her a job.

Speaker 5 (01:07:48):
Okay, So what I what I will say is, you know,
like like an Aussie would say, good on you, you know,
good for you.

Speaker 4 (01:07:58):
You're you're a rough bro. But I get it, I
get it the grip, I get it.

Speaker 5 (01:08:03):
Prove let let it. Okay. So a dear friend of mine,
one of my best girlfriends in the whole wide world,
she always says this that an apology is a multi
phase process over an extended period of time. Recognizing what
you did, atoning for it, and apologizing for it is

(01:08:27):
just the opening salvo to an entire CD you apologize for.

Speaker 4 (01:08:33):
Before the end of that she is still conservative's still conservative.

Speaker 5 (01:08:36):
Well, I and what I'm saying is that, like an
apology begins with obviously recognizing what you did, but now
you have to take action to remedy that and truly
be accountable and change your behavior and demonstrate that over
a sustained period of time. This isn't just It's not
just the abusive boyfriend love bombing you for three months

(01:08:59):
after slapping you in the face to get you to
come back, and then everything flips right back to the
way it was the second. It's convenient and you've forgotten.
But I don't think that's kind of the thing that
I'm afraid Marjorie Taylor Greed and Candice Owens are abusive
to the public, So I don't believe them when they
say I'm sorry and buy me flowers. I'm gonna little more.

Speaker 4 (01:09:17):
I also don't think it's right for us to think that,
because we are on the left side, that we own
that argument too. I think it's conservative right and conservative
actually believe feels may feel about the best of policy.

Speaker 5 (01:09:28):
But Israel that you know, we've got at least you
in so far as you and I and this show
are concerned, We've got the receipts because we've been. Have
I not been every bit as hard on Bernie or
Gavin Newsome as I have?

Speaker 4 (01:09:45):
You are?

Speaker 7 (01:09:47):
You are especially too, But because trust me, as I
got as much smoke for Gavin Newsom as I've got
for Marjorie Taylor Green, I don't care about a lot
of Marjorie Taylor Green's nonsense because it's just so far
fucking out there and so far field of reason.

Speaker 5 (01:10:01):
People like that don't warrant my time trying to convince them.
But say somebody like Gavenussen, who I have an equal
amount of smoke for, but has demonstrated he has a conscience,
can listen, can be shown reason he has good ideas,
and he has good ration Like even the ideas he
has that I don't agree with, he has sound rationale,
but behind his position that can be reasoned with.

Speaker 4 (01:10:24):
So cool.

Speaker 5 (01:10:25):
But yeah, I have as much smoke for the left
as I do for the right.

Speaker 4 (01:10:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:10:29):
I think that's and I think that's I think that's
important in saying like, well, I'm being kind of a
stubborn ass about it, I.

Speaker 4 (01:10:34):
Get now right. I got criticized a lot left because
because I they say that I critique the left more
than the right. But the reason why more left more
than the right is because the fact that if the
left is the gatekeeper to keeping things sane, then I
have to make sure you're correcting the thing. You can't
tell me that Donald Trump is the democracy and then

(01:10:55):
the solution that is to make sure the eight year
old fucking guy who looks like he's about to die
in a minute now is the option. Sorry.

Speaker 5 (01:11:01):
Well, and to your point, that's where Gavin Newsom deserves
a flower, for example, because he can engage in the troll.
He will bust balls with.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
The best of them. Yeah, he's doing.

Speaker 5 (01:11:10):
He doesn't. He doesn't then go out and make a
speech in an earnest condition and then spew like easily
provable lies and mistruths. You know, the things he's saying
about the positions he's holding, or the bills he's vetoing,
or the bills he's signing, whatever that may be, or
the campaigning he's doing. Like the things he's saying factually

(01:11:33):
check out way more often than not. It's not to
say he's not incorrect. That's not to say he doesn't lie.
That's not to say he doesn't mislead. Every fucking politician does,
but the rate at which he does it is exceptionally low.

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
And that's all for the whole time. Like I, people
continue to get themselves and nons of a ship. I
keep it simple. Like Donald Trump, even if he wasn't
an authoritarian, I would vote for him because why it
comes down to the simplest things of why I do
this in the first place. It's called policy. Do I
like it policy? Yes?

Speaker 5 (01:12:05):
Or no?

Speaker 4 (01:12:06):
If my mother, who I love the death ran on
Dante's policy as president, my mom's not getting my vote. Policy,
look at it, I.

Speaker 5 (01:12:15):
Look at it this way. And at the end of
the day when you boil it like this is the
thing in movies, like whenever they try to like flip
flick the ballsack of the villain, it's like, oh, so
at the end of the day, your scheme just boils
down to petty theft. You know, it's at the end
of the day, lawyer employee relationship. And you shouldn't put

(01:12:37):
any more emotion into your relationship with politics and policy
than that. And politicians because at the end of the day,
they work for you. It is their job to get
you what you need. And those two interests are diametrically
opposed to each other because them keeping their jobs in
many ways is dependent on selling you the fuck out.

(01:12:58):
So treat them like your employer treats you. Does your
employer genuinely give a fuck about many of the circumstances
or any of the circumstances taking place in your life
if it impacts No, They care about your production, they
care about your attendance. They care about you shutting the
fuck up and doing what you're told. So treat your
politicians the same fucking way. Hold them to the standard

(01:13:21):
of are you doing the job? Are you what have
you done for me lately? And get back to fucking work.
Stop treating them like sports teams. I can have a whimsical, emotional,
silly relationship with a sports team because they don't pay
my bills. It's not their job to pay my bills.
Nothing they're doing impacts my day to day life other

(01:13:44):
than maybe my blogs.

Speaker 4 (01:13:47):
And that's my choice. Record.

Speaker 5 (01:13:49):
Yes, stop treating politicians like sports teams. Treat them like
what they are, your fucking employees.

Speaker 4 (01:13:56):
By the way, you're a voice acting amazing us girl clause,
surely you just.

Speaker 5 (01:13:59):
Do that was a good little like quasi Jason Statham.

Speaker 4 (01:14:04):
Yeah, it is clear though, before we move on to
the next topic. It is clear though that Gavin Newsom
is the not just the front runner, he's probably the
heavy favorite now to that, to that on the un
it's like you've been doing like thourteen years of me,
fourteen years of me like one, Yeah, it's clear he's
he's the Democratic frontrunner now by far.

Speaker 5 (01:14:23):
Yeah, it's not even close to me. I mean, you know,
we kind of talked about this offline a little bit
and we're shooting text back and forth, and we're talking
about sort of our top five and what we see.
And you've asked me this question numerous times since the election,
of like what my bench is or what like my
draft board looks like? I don't fucking know. I don't think.

Speaker 4 (01:14:43):
Yeah, I did a lesson, I have what I who
I want versus who I think.

Speaker 5 (01:14:49):
Yeah, I think it's time. I think it's timely that
Michelle Obama said. What a lot of us are thinking
is I forget who was interviewing her, but there I covered,
thank you, I c Ellis Ross doing a one on
one with Michelle Obama in front of a big room
of attendees. And then it's, of course because a podcast

(01:15:11):
episode and oh you actually had that.

Speaker 4 (01:15:14):
I think, hold on, can I play on the show
on Tuesday?

Speaker 5 (01:15:17):
That's why? Okay, yeah, yeah. So the point of that is,
you know, there was something I forget what the specific
setup was that teed Michelle up to make this comment. However,
missus Obama, excuse me, I don't remember what exactly Tracy
Ellis Ross said that teed Michelle Obama to make this comment,

(01:15:38):
But it was like, y'all can miss me with all
that run president bullshit, because you're not ready for a
woman president. You've demonstrated it repeatedly. You don't like the
idea of having a woman as a boss. You're not
ready for it, so quit telling me to do it.
I'm not guys like I don't like I don't like
politics in the first place.

Speaker 4 (01:15:58):
I didn't like it on Barrock r I've got it
right here.

Speaker 5 (01:16:00):
Hold on, care you go, obviously paraphrasing and hyperbole.

Speaker 4 (01:16:06):
Don't even look at me about running because you all
are lying. You're not ready for a woman. You are not,
so don't waste my time.

Speaker 6 (01:16:15):
You know, we got a lot of growing up to doom,
and there's still, I'm sadly a lot of men who
do not feel like they can be led by a woman.

Speaker 5 (01:16:23):
And we saw it. What was the question? Real quick,
real quick too, and I'll eave it. I'll piggyback on
what the first lady said, which is that mostly among
white women, I tend to hear this, However, the number
of women, again mostly from the suburbs, white women who

(01:16:48):
have depended on their dads, maybe well into their twenties,
if not thirties. I have a thing they will take
the position of I love me a boss bitch. But
I don't think a woman men should be president because
women too are women too to that, I do think
I've heard I've heard that more times than I would

(01:17:09):
like to be able to admit.

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
I do think though, that if there's a woman that
can actually win presidency, she's the one the name helps
one of the Obama because you know she is. She's
definitely way more authentic than Kamala Harris is and certainly
Hillary Clinton. That's not even a conversation. She's no bullshit dude.
She because calls. She just only pully punches, so you

(01:17:33):
can appreciate that she can pull. Okay, independence of moderates, I.

Speaker 5 (01:17:37):
Think I think you're true. I think that's right to
a point. But you know, kind of as a callback,
let me say that, like, your friend might not have
a problem voting for Michelle Obama, but I bet you
four out of his five, four out of five of
his cousins.

Speaker 4 (01:17:52):
Do Mus's cousins probably woting for Trump anyway? In Republican anyway?

Speaker 5 (01:17:55):
Well that's I just I just mean to say, I
think on let okay, you're right if the campaign is
not yet another hollow ass neoliberal a PAC sponsored bullshit.
If Michelle Obama were to come forth with a platform

(01:18:19):
that is actually worth investing in, that addresses wage problems,
that addresses housing problems, food access, utility access.

Speaker 4 (01:18:28):
She's certainly better communicating than anybody else is.

Speaker 5 (01:18:31):
If her, If she was if she basically adapted Zoran's
platform to federal policy and ran on that. Yes, I
think everything you're saying is true. If she were to,
if she were to be everything she is and try
to sell us Kamala Harris's platform, I think the same
thing happens.

Speaker 4 (01:18:54):
True, and I agree with you. But Kama Harris's campaign
was also pretty much run by the Biden Knights people.
I don't think Obama. I've Obama have a clean slate
and a clean because plus we don't even know what
much of Obama's as the politics are. Let me know
what Bronx politics are true.

Speaker 5 (01:19:16):
But I would invite you to detach that a little
bit because we've we've dissected the Bernie Hillary stuff to
death on this show. But like in that, in that spirit,
it less was. It was less to do with Biden
Harris messaging and more to do that Biden was the
head of the d n C obviously, and he was

(01:19:40):
the loudest, most consistent mouthpiece for their overwhelming, you know,
trajectory decision making. And like he echoed everything that has
been neoliberal, Clinton, Knight, Obama, bullshit that buried Bernie, like
all of that, he's been towed the line. So to me,

(01:20:00):
it's less about like Biden Harris and more about party Harris,
because it's the same thing that's sunk Bernie. It's the
same thing that caused problems for AOC in the squad
early in their careers. It's, you know, it's that same thing.
It's that the rich people at the top are opposed
to policies that are socialists because their corporate donors hate it.

Speaker 4 (01:20:20):
And yet you could argue it's the reason they lose
elections because Harry is Commelin last year opens her campaign
talking about housing, talking about affordability, it's about all these
things that things you want to hear as a middle
class voter. Okay, and then and you see the polling,
her polling went to the roof, and then.

Speaker 5 (01:20:37):
She started doing what the donors said.

Speaker 4 (01:20:39):
She tanked, yeah, because they said stop talking about this,
and she did something about that kind of stuff and
going happened. Trump did. Trump can can talk about it.
He did anyone?

Speaker 5 (01:20:49):
Yeah, I mean, and this is what I've always said.
He lied and he captured people because he was at
least speaking to these things.

Speaker 4 (01:20:55):
He never did.

Speaker 5 (01:20:58):
Yeah, in some ways, Uh, he never had. He never
had any intention of following through on any of things.
But he knew what he needed to say in order
to get you to and and Kamala Harris didn't talk
to those things.

Speaker 4 (01:21:13):
I didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:21:14):
You would have more earnestly if she'd actually embraced that shit,
she would have more earnestly. I think worked to facilitate
those things.

Speaker 4 (01:21:21):
I think it Mark. I do think a Michelle Obama campaign,
and I know she don't want to run, and she's
not gonna run. I know that, But a Michelle Obama
run campaign, she will not take that bullshit the same
way Kamala will. Kama Kamala took it because it's Kamala.
Michelle is a lot more.

Speaker 5 (01:21:38):
Yes, Unfortunately, where I think Michelle ultimately becomes disqualified in
your point, while valid, I think she in a vacuum.
That's probably true. I don't think she's going to allow
herself to be bullied by anybody. However, in doing so,
the next big pitfall that you run into is that
if what if everything you're saying is true, that's gonna

(01:22:01):
run her a foul of her own husband's career and
presidency because you are bringing up questions about drone strikes
and Palestine and all kinds of and deportations and other things.
It's not it's not going to be a fair criticism.
I'm just saying it's the next thing on the list.

(01:22:21):
It's what's gonna get lobbed. So I don't it's going
distraction to me that I.

Speaker 4 (01:22:28):
Think we're past the point of moral code, because.

Speaker 5 (01:22:34):
I think I need us to stop saying that. I
need us to reclaim it.

Speaker 4 (01:22:39):
But I think we're past. Stop accepting don win elections, Dude,
it doesn't win elections anymore. And this is why Gavin
Newsman is now indulging this ship. Now, Okay, yeah, letters.

Speaker 5 (01:22:56):
Moral does not mean being a pussy or being being
a coward. There's those two things are not mutually exclusive.
Just because Gavin newsoen to. I mean, if you look
at Gavin Newsom's record, he has missteps, he has things
that he needs to explain for that he hasn't done
a great job explaining, of course, but if you look

(01:23:16):
at his overall public profile going all the way back
to even before he was mayor of San Francisco, his
ethical personal moral track record is pretty clean. Has he
pulled any punches? No, Zorn, same thing, same thing, you know.

(01:23:36):
So No, I don't think the left. I don't think
being moral and being a bitch are mutually exclusive, Okay,
And I think maybe a little bit we might be
just having a semantic misunderstanding a little bit in the
sense that, like, I don't think bringing morality back into

(01:23:57):
the political discourse means being a spineless bitch. Yeah, it's
it's saying it's it's saying that, like, look, not only
do I have better ideas than my opponent, my opponent
is a thirty four times over fucking criminal who has
admitted repeatedly to sexually assaulting people gleefully, and as we

(01:24:20):
now know has been mentioned fifty eleven times in the
Epstein reports. This is an immoral person who doesn't know
what they're doing and is not going to follow through
on the things they are promising you. Here are my ideas,
here are my promises. Let's get to work.

Speaker 4 (01:24:43):
I will his was factual though, and we'll move on
to another topic after this. This was factual. Gavin Newsom
and Michelle Baba by far better communicators than Kamala Harris
and Hillary Clinton, that is correct, you know, more likable,
but also communicating you well, and it very clear they
don't bullshit you.

Speaker 5 (01:25:05):
So yeah, no, you feel feel like everything has been
rehearsed to death with Kamala Harris and Hillary.

Speaker 4 (01:25:11):
Yes, it's like it's.

Speaker 5 (01:25:13):
It's like Belichick quarterback press conference ship.

Speaker 4 (01:25:17):
Right. I can see what Obama and Joe Rogan podcast.
I can see it. I can see the world when
that happens. I can't seem Harris.

Speaker 5 (01:25:23):
Yeah, and you know the time. And it's interesting because
we've talked about this at Nauseum two, going all the
way back to even her first attempt at a presidential run,
when Kamala Harris lets her mask slip and you actually
see the type of person she is.

Speaker 4 (01:25:42):
One of the the book tour is a little bit
of a bit, but I just mean.

Speaker 5 (01:25:49):
To say, when you actually see who it appears she
might be behind closed doors, I find her to be
a very likable, funny I too like she's a ball
buster I think she would. She strikes me as like
one of those bosses or teachers that like it's a
little tough at first, they're a little hard on you,
but once you prove yourself and they kind of like

(01:26:10):
get you to understand their way, you end up absolutely
adoring them and having a very funny banter with them.
That's what That's what the Vice president strikes me as
is that kind of boss or teacher. She's a hard ass,
but like, once you prove yourself, it ends up being
a lot of fun. And I feel like if she

(01:26:31):
was just more sincere and more authentic, people would have
a much more favorable view of her. But unfortunately, what
they see is committee hearings and campaign speeches and very
rehearsed interviews, and there are very few snippets of her
being authentic. We you know, like early breakfast club shit

(01:26:51):
was super super enlightening, somewhat campaign not so much.

Speaker 4 (01:26:59):
I mentioned the Kambala and the book tour of here's
one clip from that. Actually, your answer, I found the
internet right now that Kay come out. This is a
gossip protester. Mh.

Speaker 5 (01:27:23):
I'm really knowing about.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
The boo right now? The guy, where's that holo, where's that?

Speaker 5 (01:27:39):
Okay, so just quick as all we're hearing is booing.

Speaker 4 (01:27:43):
Yeah, I found that, found it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
You know.

Speaker 4 (01:27:44):
Yeah, that's a toxic.

Speaker 6 (01:27:46):
I hate.

Speaker 4 (01:27:46):
I hate the same person I'm telling people not to vote.

Speaker 5 (01:27:52):
Thanks.

Speaker 8 (01:27:54):
I'm not president, And if you want to talk about legacy,
let's talk.

Speaker 5 (01:28:08):
About the legacy of mass deportation.

Speaker 4 (01:28:26):
She went, you know, you know what I think you
wait a while ago. The reason why as I see
this club, I think of you. You know why you
remember what she was she first ran in twenty nineteen.
You always called it Auntie. That's the Auntie shit right there. Bro,
that's the Auntie shit right there.

Speaker 5 (01:28:45):
No, I I I see what you're doing, and I
understand why it's tricking you into believing that. But I
don't buy it. And here's why. It's it's a very
deft and well executed straw man argument because it happens
to be correct. However, I understand why she's upset. I'll
even give her a little This is not the place

(01:29:05):
for that conversation. And she's factually correct. I'm not the president,
I'm not the commander in chief of the military. I
don't order I don't have final say on defense spending,
you know, purchase or whatever the fuck. Yeah, all true,
but Gaza is one of the things that cost you

(01:29:26):
the election, So quit trying to deflect. And while yes,
obviously mass deportations are happening, and you were right to
caution against that, you did not take adequate responsibility or
you are a member of that administration. Whether or not
you have your finger on the red button or not

(01:29:46):
is irrelevant, and you had an opportunity and a responsibility
to distance yourself from that very obviously wrong headed course
of action. It hindsight has taught us unequivocally that what
is taking place in Gaza and the West Bank is

(01:30:07):
a genocide. It's a colonial conquest mission by yeah, and
an avalanche of war crimes and human rights violations. To
call it anything less than that is irresponsible at best
and abhorrent at worst. So while she is correct, and

(01:30:33):
she graciously executes the delivery of her point and tempers
from just quiet, quiet poise or you know, makes the
transition from quiet poise into ferocious messenger instantaneously, and you
could see her turning into a prosecutor and cross. Ultimately,

(01:30:55):
it's a it's a very well packaged and deft deflection.

Speaker 4 (01:30:58):
So it was le's about the something more about the
the openness. Because she didn't, she was not more cleaner
on the campaign trail.

Speaker 5 (01:31:07):
So I'll give you a better example for I think
the brightest spot in her entire campaign and as a
result a missed springboard was in the debate when she
was so taken aback by one of President Trump's responses
that she literally almost opened her rebuttal with this motherfucker

(01:31:31):
and she had to catch herself at this mook and.

Speaker 4 (01:31:37):
That's Auntie, that's the Auntie.

Speaker 5 (01:31:38):
That was the most human moment she had throughout her
entire campaign. I agree, And had she leaned into that
and embraced that part of her personality and used that
moment in the debate to be, for example, at a
rally or out of one on one with a ten

(01:32:00):
thousand person audience and to where she can be like man,
do y'all know how hard it is to like proof
you understand? Like how maddening this man is. I almost
called him my favorite swear word on globally televised live debate.

(01:32:21):
That's how that's how much this man unhinges me. And
if she had done something like that I'd have been like,
all right, now I feel some human connection with you.
But she didn't do that. Yeah, well I didn't listen
to Bruno, g and Ellie. She listened to everybody else.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
Well. I am angry right now, Mark, because obviously the
baseball season was suck for me because the that's what
they did. But I think I'm just as angry about
the MVP voting. Yeah, specifically the American League. That's the
league whatever. Like there's a case of Swarber, but not.

Speaker 5 (01:32:55):
Really had because I get it to over Yeah, I
was gonna say to overshadow the like, we'll make it
really quick because everybody has beaten this to fucking death
on baseball pods. But the show yet, I know, but
it's the information in the take is readily available, so
I'm just gonna make it super super super quick. Kyle

(01:33:18):
Schwarber's offensive numbers would have had to be like outlandishly
ahead of showe Aotani to overcome the combination of the
full spectrum of what he does on the field and
in the clubhouse and the total value he provides to
a team. His pitching numbers were approaching cy Young levels,

(01:33:41):
and as you know, technically not up for consideration, but
to further underscore what he did in the postseason throughout
not necessarily as much on the world servers, but throughout
the post obviously was the NLCS MVP. Kyle Kyle Schwarver's
offensive production and total report card do not outpay enough.

Speaker 4 (01:34:06):
In That's that point, that point, I get it. I'm
not gonna be it's just not close.

Speaker 5 (01:34:12):
But the American League that ship, that dumper got ship,
and dumper got ship.

Speaker 4 (01:34:19):
On to me phrases to Yankee fans, this is not
about Aaron Judge. We know Aaron is the best player
in America.

Speaker 5 (01:34:26):
League, generational player, one of the greatest of all time.

Speaker 9 (01:34:32):
Is his.

Speaker 5 (01:34:34):
Position as the best in baseball. He's only overshadowed by
the fact that he's playing at the same time in
history as Shoot, it's like from a myriad of elite
Hall of Fame players who got overshadowed by Michael Jordan.

Speaker 4 (01:34:49):
Right, however, and we got a pauseal quick, my wife's
called me, give me a second earth. God damn, okay,
we're back. My wife called recording. So all right, we've
been talking about the America League again. So again, this
is less I mean got on. He sixty four home
runs as a catcher. If I'm not mistaken, Seattle was

(01:35:12):
a higher also higher ranked UH seated team this year
to the Yankees were going to the playoffs. So good Look,
I know voting cuts off again in the year they
announce it.

Speaker 5 (01:35:20):
The seams over sure, but but the voting October doesn't
come into consideration beyond your seating going into the playoffs.

Speaker 4 (01:35:27):
Yeah, that is it. It is. It's about practice. I'm
sorry it is New York. Many York are saying this
ship is New York.

Speaker 5 (01:35:33):
No, it is. It is for a few reasons because
one of the one of the breakdowns I saw of
like how egregious and why this is? But it demonstrated, how,
you know, a whole variety of offensive categories. Aaron Judge
does outperform cal Raley marginally. He's technically green to cal
Rawley's red in like a dozen and a half categories.

(01:35:55):
Whether it's ops, slugging, I don't know exactly which, but
it's a lot of them. However, when you look at
just the sheer number of call it defensive exposures and
opportunities that cal Rawly had, it was one of the
figures that they pointed to was that something like, first

(01:36:16):
of all, playing right field, particularly at Yankee Stadium is
easy with a short porch, easy as it relates to
other positions on the field for being a major League
baseball player. That's not to say you or I could
do it, but for example, when Aaron Judge is hurt,
who do they trot out there to play right field?
John Carlo fucking Stanton. And while I maybe don't have

(01:36:38):
the hand eye coordination to be able to make every
play on a ball, I'm gonna go out on a
limb and say my knees function a little better than his,
even with my knee surgery. So the point is, if
John Carlo Stanton can play right field at Yankee Stadium,
obviously it's not nearly as hard statistically, and it's provable
like by the numbers, right field is the easiest position

(01:37:00):
on the field in professional baseball. Right, So, I cal
Rawley had something like seventeen thousand pitches in the dirt
that would have that would have been past balls. He
did not allow a single one. Aaron Judge only had
something like twenty two hundred balls hit to him all season.

Speaker 4 (01:37:19):
Yeah, by way, I was wrong.

Speaker 5 (01:37:21):
And that's only one element of the defensive facets of
playing catcher.

Speaker 4 (01:37:26):
Yeah. By the way, why the Yankees were the lower
seeded team, they had the best record baseball with the
Blue Jays well in America League rather Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
And with.

Speaker 5 (01:37:38):
Thousands more opportunities than Judge. Cal Rawley had something I
forget the number of defense. I think Judge had him
beat in defensive assists, but in like defensive percentage. I'm
probably not stating the name of that statistic correctly, but
you know what I'm talking about, that like defensive average number.

(01:38:00):
Aaron Judge was nine ninety six. Cal Rawley was nine
to ninety five. And mind you again, cal Rawley had
thousands more attempts than Aaron Judge or opportunities to make
a mistake, and he finished point zero zero one percent
behind Aaron Judge in opportunities completed. Like are you fucking

(01:38:20):
kidding me? Wile kneeling all game, not being useless on
the base path and playing mentally the toughest position on
the field. He has six It's not close that.

Speaker 4 (01:38:37):
Mark. He had sixty four fucking whole runs. He had
sixty four motherfucking whole runs. That's it. Fuck you anybody else.
I don't give a shit. You voted, you won't fucking suck.
He had sixty four fucking all runs.

Speaker 5 (01:38:48):
The only players who've ever hit that many are juiced,
like yes, and say that they shouldn't be in Cooperstown.
I absolutely think Mark McGuire and Barry Bond should be
in Coopertown. But the only guys that have ever hit
more than sixty sixty two home runs have been fucking juiced.

Speaker 4 (01:39:04):
Yeah, he had sixty four fucking hole runs. That's all
I mean. You know, I'm done?

Speaker 5 (01:39:09):
Yeah, I mean it's the same. I mean, how okay?
And it's perfect that we referenced the Otani versus Schwarber,
Like why it's such a quick and easy decision. It
should have been just as quick and easy for the
exact same fucking reason that with Rally and Aaron Judge
in that sure Aaron Judge, Like, you're splitting hairs to

(01:39:33):
say that Aaron Judge is a better overall offensive player
than cal Raley. It's neck and neck, so let's call
that a wash. Right. The minute you bring into the
conversation the defensive part or the you know, the conversation
ends no different than like Schwarber's performance in the field

(01:39:55):
doesn't close come anywhere close to Otani's production on the mound. Yeah,
Aaron Judge's value to his ball club in as a
defensive player doesn't get do shit to contribute to win
share compared to cal Raley's contribute contribution in the field.
Who is if if the Seattle Mariners had Alejandro Kirk

(01:40:19):
and cal and the Blue Jays had cal Raley, do
you think the eighth and ninth innings go the way
they do in uh in in Game seven, I don't.
I'll take the bats completely out of it. Just pitch calling,

(01:40:39):
defensive decisions, messaging that would have been going on, just
keeping everybody calm, leading the defense. Those are the things
about being a catcher that are really fucking hard nobody
gives you credit for. And also, let's go one step further,
just a couple of not a couple, but within the
last ten to fifth teen years, we were having conversations

(01:41:03):
on this podcast about how offensive production among catchers across
the board had fallen off so wildly that there were
only a handful of like decent hitting catchers in baseball.
And at the time it was like JT. Real Muto,
the Yasmani Grendal and that was about it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:23):
Explode.

Speaker 5 (01:41:23):
Yeah, and a little bit Brian McCann, but he was
at that point dropping off. But so you're talking about
out of thirty two teams, like three four guys that
are considered real heavy bats. Cal Raley is the heaviest
fucking bat in baseball and he's a catcher exactly. Like

(01:41:43):
that is different than being a right fielder and having
a heavy bat.

Speaker 4 (01:41:47):
Right Did you want to do? Did you want to
cover the story? Somebody's warning? What the what the Padres? Yes? Okay, okay,
let's play a clip for a month.

Speaker 5 (01:41:57):
I'm gonna break my boycott for just a second second.

Speaker 4 (01:42:02):
Yo boycott Okay, oh yeah, I'll play video meantime though,
for the listeners while we're I'll play this okay for
the others steners. Here's a clude with Dave Samson another
personal podcast, discussing the standing Padre's crazy ownership situation.

Speaker 10 (01:42:21):
Are losing so much money that they've got to sell
the team or get rid of the players, And what
turned out is that they're doing both. Padres, We've been
telling you for years are an irresponsibly run organization by
a GM who does not understand that his job is
not to have his owner lose money handover fist and

(01:42:42):
keep signing irresponsible players just because your owner says.

Speaker 4 (01:42:46):
Hey, man, I'm an idiot.

Speaker 5 (01:42:48):
Go ahead and do it.

Speaker 4 (01:42:49):
My brother wanted it.

Speaker 10 (01:42:51):
The Padres were owned by Peter Siler, who is trying
to catch the Dodgers, and it's like chasing a rabbit
by a dog in a track. It's never gonna happen.
Peter Seidler tragically passes away, Rest in peace. I miss
him every time I think about the Padres. But do
you think it's a shock that his airs and his

(01:43:11):
signs are both fighting and selling the team. The Padres
are run about as irresponsibly as.

Speaker 5 (01:43:16):
Any team out there, and I include the Mets in there, And.

Speaker 4 (01:43:20):
That's a fucking shot asshole in my way. Fuck that hat.

Speaker 5 (01:43:24):
I'm breaking my boycott for this segment, Okay, only because
basically since the Padres went back and went from blue
and gold back to brown and gold, they have been
just that absolute dogshit, dogshit organization, dogshit character players, and

(01:43:45):
dogshit fans. I have been because I have been over
so many years, so many Padres games, wearing wearing jerseys
that look just like this, including this one since twenty twenty,
and the degree of like virulent crap i catch has

(01:44:05):
massively increased as the heat of this quote unquote rivalry
has has risen. However, throughout the Padres have demonstrated to
be an organization that isn't invested in integrity in the clubhouse,
isn't invested in character. The thing that really ties the

(01:44:25):
Dodgers together is not the number of nine figure players
they have. It's the fabric of the mentality of the
players that they have. Every single plus back guy on
the Dodgers is the type of guy that doesn't want
a statue, doesn't want their name on a building, doesn't
want a part of the outfield named after them. They

(01:44:47):
just want to do whatever is necessary to contribute to
the team. It just so happens that three of them
are MVP caliber players, and as many as six of
them could be All Stars in any given season. But yeah,
that's that's the point is the Dodgers are identifying a
certain type of player, not just paying really talent overpaying

(01:45:11):
really talented people with money they don't have.

Speaker 4 (01:45:14):
The glazing the Doves is back. I love it, Okay,
the video quick and no.

Speaker 5 (01:45:18):
Just no, it's not so much glazing the Dodgers as
it is shitting on the Padres. Because I have some
friends who are really honest to goodness Padres fans, and
like we go back and forth like flicking each other's
ear lobes, and it's all in good fun. But a
lot of these fucking Padres fans are Johnny Come Lately,
pieces of ship who say awful things to their seat
neighbors and their reflection of the dickheads on the field.

(01:45:42):
Manny Mitroado and Fernando Tatis are pieces of ship.

Speaker 10 (01:45:45):
Yeah, yep, funds the losses by writing checks. The Siler
family has no interest in writing checks. They were borrowing
money to make payroll. They were borrowing, they were doing
bridge loans, they were getting access to capital markets. They
were doing everything they can and they've been checkmated. So
what do you do when you're checkmated. Some people laid

(01:46:07):
down the king. Some people take out an ad in
the paper and.

Speaker 4 (01:46:10):
Write a letter.

Speaker 10 (01:46:11):
The Siler family released a letter saying the family has
decided to begin the process of evaluating our future with
the Padres. Do you think the Siler family has a
bunch of people in it working on behalf of Peter
as his executor.

Speaker 5 (01:46:27):
As his heir as is assigned.

Speaker 10 (01:46:29):
And do you think they looked at the padres and said, listen, Peter,
I love you man, You'll always be in my heart.
But I didn't writing checks because you have prellers sign
all these guys who.

Speaker 5 (01:46:41):
Are overpaid and under delivering.

Speaker 4 (01:46:43):
I can't do it.

Speaker 10 (01:46:44):
So I'm going to begin the process of evaluating our future.
What a bunch of horse hockey. They're selling the to
hockey exactly what we told you they did do because
they've been cutting payroll for a couple of years, it's
still not low enough.

Speaker 4 (01:46:58):
The math in San Diego doesn't work.

Speaker 5 (01:47:00):
The payroll is too high.

Speaker 10 (01:47:02):
And why would Peter Sidler's heirs want to be associated
with what is certainly going to happen?

Speaker 5 (01:47:07):
All right, Okay, the beard and shaved head is giving
an unsettling Manson aesthetic.

Speaker 4 (01:47:18):
He might be. I think the here is for his
his daughter is really sick. I don't know. I don't
if it's the shold regularly his daughter.

Speaker 5 (01:47:27):
Fine, if you want to go and be all altruistic
and wholesome about it's sure. Yeah, And I think he's
still giving Manson.

Speaker 4 (01:47:38):
Sorry, okay, no, no, I'm not saying I think the
I think the bald have was more so for his
daughter just cancer something.

Speaker 5 (01:47:44):
No, no, no, And that's fine, good and beautiful, but
I'm still I'm still standing on.

Speaker 4 (01:47:50):
The beard. Definitely kick his Manson. I heard for years
that the things that the parts have been pretty pretty rough.

Speaker 5 (01:47:55):
I anything it was this bad, Yeah, no, it's it's
been a mess in Sandy for a long time. And
it's really unfortunate because like I've had friends work for
the ball club, like, you know, as recently as eight
nine years ago, it was I don't know what it's
like now, but it was a wonderful place to work
as a as a as a fan going to games there.
The experience at Peco Park is unparalleled. I would argue

(01:48:20):
that the non baseball elements of that park are top
two in baseball that I've ever seen. That it's right
up there with City Field in terms of overall fan
experience and providing elements for maybe a more casual fan
or children who aren't gonna sit there and watch a

(01:48:41):
four hour baseball game wire to wire. All of that
to say, you know, it's cool, that the Dodgers have
another division rival in a way, but they they tried
to cut corners. They tried to they basically they tried
to do what everyone accused the Dodgers of doing before

(01:49:06):
the rest of the baseball commentary community finally came to
their defense. But like the Padres, attempted to do what
everyone accused the Dodgers of doing, which is just overspending
on flashing the pan talent to try to knock off
the champ and it blew up in their face. Because
where the Dodgers are different is they don't just invest

(01:49:27):
in marquee All stars. They invest in every level of
their organization. Go look at the Dodgers' facilities in Oklahoma
City or some even like Single A or Double A affiliates.
Those guys travel, eat, sleep, and work out like big leaguers.
They don't experience all of the motels and banquet food

(01:49:53):
and crappy conditions that a lot of other minor league
ballplayers have to endure. You know, it's a huge part
of it the Dodgers. The Dodgers pitching prospects, they have
so many fucking arms in their uh, in their farm system.
They like they have guys that would be starters on

(01:50:13):
big league clubs that can't break out a double A yeah,
and that's where the Padres fail. Yes, the Dodgers do
have some marquee talent that is sustaining them right now.
But this is what. This is what when I when
I signed off on the god who was it? It

(01:50:34):
was Adrian. There was a huge trade. It was Adrian Gonzalez,
Carl Crawford and I want to say a third player,
maybe a pitcher. When the Dodgers were really trying to
make some big moves to revamp their lineup in the
wake of the McCourt ouster, and I said, these are

(01:50:57):
not gonna win. These moves are not gonna win US championships,
but are going to break the boycott and get people
back to the boycott or back to the ballpark and
buy them time for what they're doing to invest in
the farm system. And now here we are ten years later.
Their farm system doesn't look like any other farm system
in baseball. They have an army of talent ready to

(01:51:21):
replace the guys that are already wildly replace the squad
that is wildly stacked as it is.

Speaker 4 (01:51:29):
So by the way, you sound just like Dave David Sandson,
I know a little bit, right.

Speaker 5 (01:51:34):
Yeah, he's a little he's a couple. He's like almost
like a third of a register higher than me. Yeah, yes,
but there's there's a very similar.

Speaker 11 (01:51:46):
Do you think?

Speaker 4 (01:51:46):
What do you think of Lebron's debut on Tuesday Night
Welcome Back?

Speaker 5 (01:51:50):
He looked nice. Twelve assists, that was fucking great. If
he can, if he can function as a facilitator and
a pick and roll player, I don't think. I don't
think it's like a question of him accepting the role
like that. That just never has stricken. He's always been
like I mean, he was criticized at twenty two for
being the guy who passes instead of taking the shot

(01:52:12):
triple covered with three seconds to go. So he's always
demonstrated a high basketball like you, in a tendency towards
making the smart move, and me, he's not a fucking idiot.
He can see the riding on the wall. Austin and
Luca are bawling out right now, and his best thing

(01:52:36):
he can do is contribute to that. And then when
Luca rolls his ankle in a few weeks in the
Christmas Day game and then has to sit out until
the All Star Game. There can go off and average
thirty four points a game and sustain what's happening, and
then Luca will come back and Lebron will shift back
more into a facilitator role. Hopefully they make a couple
of moves by the trade deadline and now we make

(01:52:57):
a real push to get into the finals. Still think
it's okay Sees, it's okay, C's league to lose. And
the way they're set up with like the way they
have top ten unprotected picks from the Clippers and ship
like that, that'll probably turn into a top five pick.
They're going to be dangerous for like another ten years.

(01:53:18):
So it's it's really okay see and everybody else right now.
But outside of okay see the West, who who they
likely beat in the Western Conference final.

Speaker 4 (01:53:30):
Is Denver Houston. San Antonio is still hanging around. Well,
I mean got hurt, but he's uh still hanging around
really good. Uh, And that's pretty much the top five
in the conference.

Speaker 5 (01:53:44):
I think san Antonio is a real threat, but they're
still a little ripe or on the vine. They remind me,
they remind me a little bit of whereabouts the thunder
were right before they broke up the band, like they
were right on the of of that next level from
you could see the talent, but they weren't quite there yet.

Speaker 4 (01:54:05):
Yeah, Santo, I think is one more year of like
really gelling from making this actually making it being a
finals contender. Yeah, Weby Wemby's Wemby. Wemby's here, He's here.

Speaker 5 (01:54:15):
Yeah, I think the Warriors are interesting. But yeah, to me,
the only teams in the West that matter right now
are the top teams you mentioned of course, Okay, see Denver, uh,
San Antonio, Houston, And because because they are who they are,

(01:54:40):
they're gonna get a little more attention than their production warrants,
so that enter enters the conversation are the Lakers and Warriors,
So they're gonna get out, They're gonna get outsized attention
because they're the Lakers.

Speaker 4 (01:54:52):
Gets Warriors, buddy Lakers, the Warriors. No, I I think
I and it's on trust. They help enough, dore'sn't not enough.

Speaker 5 (01:55:02):
Health is there. They got three Anthony davis Is on
their team basically.

Speaker 4 (01:55:08):
Last night.

Speaker 5 (01:55:09):
It's it's one of those things that if if their
top players are in the game and being able to
create opportunities for uh their secondary and tertiary players, Well
then they're a threat. But if everybody is not on
the floor then and you're counting on you're counting on
the bench to save you, well then you're fuck because
they're not here's a momline.

Speaker 4 (01:55:27):
They're not cracking top six. Barring injury, they're not cracking
top six. Sixteen.

Speaker 5 (01:55:31):
Yeah, I think they're gonna sneak into the playoffs and
be disrupted, like they could do the sort of thing
like they do the sort of thing like in the
first round they come in as a seven seed and
upset Houston, who cracks a two seed because of historical
hatred or no, I'm just saying that's the that's the
pinnacle of the of what they could hope for. And

(01:55:52):
then getting swept in the second round.

Speaker 4 (01:55:54):
You want to if if you're a Barriers fan against
a seven so you want to hope that Minnesota or
San Antonio gains ground, the Lakers getting ground in the
conference because they are bro If they play okay see
or Denver or I mean Houston the first round, they're
done in no less than five.

Speaker 5 (01:56:09):
Games, Okay, But if they can get to six and
the Lakers are at four. Now you've got a series.

Speaker 4 (01:56:17):
The six to probably play Houston better s chess, it's
Houston against somebody else.

Speaker 5 (01:56:21):
But I would think Houston is their best opportunity because
even though Houston is a pound for pound better team,
just that historical hatred from Steph and Steve Kerr, like
in the experience. I think that's that's where the experience
of Jimmy Butler, Steve Kerr and Steph Curry kind of
tips the scale a little bit.

Speaker 4 (01:56:38):
I agree with that, no fucking shot against Denver, they
get swept by Okay.

Speaker 5 (01:56:42):
So oh yeah Denver, Denver, Oka. See, they're they're in
Cancun within a week of that series tipping off, like yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:56:49):
By the way, all I mean fun Okay, see right
now he's spent records podcast. They're fifteen to one right now,
fifteen to one without Janie Williams. They played a minute
the basketball this shit yet right the thunder. They're fifteen
and one right now, right, fifteen to one without their
second best player, Jail Williams, who's the top ten player
in league at point.

Speaker 6 (01:57:07):
Now.

Speaker 5 (01:57:08):
Yeah, and they have more they have more high first
round picks coming.

Speaker 4 (01:57:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (01:57:13):
So Shane projected to be a historic two thousand and
three four ASS draft and draft class.

Speaker 4 (01:57:20):
Yeah, yeah, that's what we're saying. So they're in a
position that you you wish they are.

Speaker 5 (01:57:27):
They are the odds on favorites pound for pound, way
better than every other team. And we've got a ninety
six three ass draft coming their way and they've got picks.

Speaker 4 (01:57:40):
All right, we figured out here. It was one more topic.

Speaker 5 (01:57:42):
I know.

Speaker 4 (01:57:43):
We shot this to me last week.

Speaker 5 (01:57:44):
I'm going to play okay real so hold on real quick.
Aside before we move off the NBA, What the fuck
are the Knicks doing?

Speaker 4 (01:57:51):
I mean one last night?

Speaker 5 (01:57:52):
I yeah, but they tried really hard not to. Did
you watch that game last night?

Speaker 4 (01:57:58):
I watched a little.

Speaker 5 (01:57:59):
I was in as a lot more Knicks games, and
so I watched that whole game, and it was literally
like I think when they when they finally got the
lead back and made it like one O nine one
away in the fourth quarter. I think that was the
first time they led since the first.

Speaker 4 (01:58:14):
I know, we beat Dallas.

Speaker 5 (01:58:16):
Didn't even have to Cooper flag or a dying Oh wow.

Speaker 4 (01:58:25):
I wasn't into the game.

Speaker 5 (01:58:26):
I was led like decisively most of the game, and
my sheer grit. Did they claw back into it in
the fourth quar Even in the fourth quarter, they were
trying to give it the fuck away, Like Mitchell Robinson
was missing free throws. Uh, somebody else one of the
other guards was missing free throws. I think Josh miss
Josh Smith was making some stupid fucking fouls or Josh

(01:58:50):
Hart was making some stupid fucking fouls. I was literally
I was looking at my because I was wearing a
Lakers jacket last night. I have this really dope, like
Lakers varsity jacket that I copped for thirty bucks. And
hold on really quick because it's right here.

Speaker 4 (01:59:02):
You got to see no, no, bring that jacket and
a Knicks or uh nine to five right now.

Speaker 5 (01:59:08):
But this is a like full way that's cool varsity jacket,
like high school varsity jacket, dope, thirty dollars.

Speaker 4 (01:59:21):
That is something that that's something you would have sawn
in the eighties too.

Speaker 5 (01:59:23):
Also, And dude, I'm telling you, I wear jerseys that
cost to three hundred dollars, like authentic throwback Kobe shit.
With my grenches. I get more DAPs on the street
in New York wearing that thirty dollars jacket than anything.
That's like a uniforn in my apparel collection. But yeah,

(01:59:44):
so I was wearing that last night, and so obviously
people in Knicks gear busting my balls a little bit.
So I'm like, no, I'm rooting for the Knicks. I
have no, I have no misaligned interest here.

Speaker 4 (01:59:54):
But what the fuck are you guys doing.

Speaker 5 (01:59:55):
You're trying to give this game away all night. Fifty
to fifty balls, turnovers, miss free throws, just like sloppy ship.
Sloppy ship.

Speaker 4 (02:00:04):
Yeah all right, Sonna, pay video quick video. You said
this to me last week for something going to the cover.
This is Petty Hardaway. This is what Penny. Yeah, top
three for me? What if? In NBA and Posse sports history,
here's a clipate on this is.

Speaker 5 (02:00:20):
Tied very close to the top with the Chris Paul trade.

Speaker 4 (02:00:23):
Yeah, here we go. Penny Haddaway is a respect here
and the time at that time, that's how nice he
was year player, going up against m J and giving him.

Speaker 9 (02:00:38):
It was no accident that in his second year, in
Shaq's third year, we went to the finals. The IQ,
the vision, the passion ability, being able to score inside, outside,
everything you wanted out a basketball player.

Speaker 4 (02:00:50):
Like he was the prototype. Well wow, it was.

Speaker 11 (02:00:53):
When you talk about the most popular players, it was
Mike the Jordan and Penny Hardaway, Like everybody had those
pennies to Penny Hardaway has the most underrated run of
signature shoes in the history of signature shoes.

Speaker 4 (02:01:05):
Like that was my Michael Jordan. How he played on
the court. But it was like poetry in motion. Phenomenal
player or you know, athletic at the point our position,
great pass or great vision, and it's that tremendous feel
for the game. You have Google look and see who
Penny was. Remember Penny came in day one like this.

Speaker 9 (02:01:22):
He was that talented and anybody who played against him
would tell you the same thing, like he was coming Like.

Speaker 4 (02:01:28):
I remember, I remember your debut, No I waste years old,
debut twelve years old.

Speaker 5 (02:01:32):
I was in I was in fifth grade, living in Vegas,
And this is It's interesting because we were kind of
talking about this on the last show about how like
hoop culture and hip hop culture was just so much
more ubiquitous in Vegas than like the school that I
grew up in in la And this is a perfect
example of that. Is it seemed like overnight I'm watching

(02:01:53):
these marionette cartoons of this loud mouth what turned out
to be Chris rock Uh commercials for Nike, and everybody's
wearing Orlando Magic jerseys and it's not Shack. I'm like,
who the fuck is this guy? And they're like Penny Hardaway,
I'm like, who the fuck is?

Speaker 11 (02:02:09):
It?

Speaker 5 (02:02:10):
Was it? I swear to god, it was like overnight.
Half my school had Penny Hardaway jerseys, you know, and
everybody was was like eyeball in foam posits before there
was before there was social media. It was so instantaneous
and he was so explosive. If I'm not mistaken, Dak actually,

(02:02:31):
if I'm pretty sure of this, I swear I saw
it in like a thirty for thirty or some similar
type of documentary, because it was I believe it was
about It was a documentary about how Shaq left Orlando,
and of course there was a lot of like contact
context and set up.

Speaker 4 (02:02:47):
Hey was it did did the thirty? Do you Believe Magic?
I think it because I watched a couple of years ago.

Speaker 5 (02:02:54):
I don't know if it was do you Believe in Magic?
But I want to say it was. There was one.
There was one specifically about Penny and Shack.

Speaker 4 (02:03:03):
I believe Yeah, that's one on ESPN.

Speaker 5 (02:03:07):
Oh, it's called do You Believe in Magic?

Speaker 4 (02:03:08):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (02:03:09):
I thought do you Believe in Magic? Was a Magic
Johnson one. Okay, so yeah, ye, so do you Believe
In Magic? Is the one I was thinking of. But
if I'm not mistaken, Shack first met Penny because Penny
was one of the players.

Speaker 4 (02:03:25):
It's called this magic moment.

Speaker 5 (02:03:27):
I apologize this magic moment. But if I'm not mistaken,
Penny was one of the background players in Blue Chips.
I don't know if he was on the core squad
or if he was on like one of the opposing team,
like background performers. I don't remember the specifics, but I
seem to remember a segment in this documentary where Shack's
doing a testimonial and he's talking about how he met

(02:03:49):
Penny during runs filming Blue Chips, and he went to
the Orlando front office and was like that skinny dude
with the tiny with the pencils ashes, Who who the
fuck you're drafting? That's the only way, the only way
you're keeping me happy is if that's who you draft.
I want him. I'm pretty sure that took place. And then,

(02:04:14):
if I'm not mistaken, didn't Penny have a similar career
to Grant hill In.

Speaker 4 (02:04:20):
And so?

Speaker 5 (02:04:21):
But first, but it first, Orlando fucked him on his contract,
which is what brought about Shaq Lever Like Orlando had
indicated they weren't gonna pay Penny. So Shack took the
meeting with Jerry West or something like that.

Speaker 4 (02:04:37):
I don't like, wasn't that I don't know the situation.

Speaker 5 (02:04:44):
Contract was coming up and Shack had just gotten paid
like the it was. I want to say, Shaq had
gotten a boost on his rookie contract or something, and
Penny's rookie contract was coming due, and they were expecting
that both Shack and Penny were going to get paid,
and the Orlando leadership basically said, well, the only way

(02:05:07):
you're getting your number is if we let Penny go.

Speaker 4 (02:05:10):
Penny.

Speaker 5 (02:05:11):
It was something along those lines.

Speaker 4 (02:05:13):
Penny Hardaway was a mixture of Magic Johnson, Scottie Pippen
and Michael Jordan. Like he was athletic, he had a
great vision, I remember, I remember they I'd say he.

Speaker 5 (02:05:23):
Had better range than all of the people you just
mentioned too. Absolutely, he was more Reggie Miller than any
he was so dangerous to say he had more of
Reggie's range than any of those guys did. Yeah, and Ali,
but Reggie didn't have the explosiveness and ball handling and
passing that that Penny did and those.

Speaker 4 (02:05:42):
Other guys did, And all says, that's a little that's
a little contversial. But follow me here. I think Penny
and Shack was a better fit than Kobe and Shack.
Now who was better overall?

Speaker 5 (02:05:55):
We know the obvious the three rings naturally, yes, they
are more natural fit. But I still think the ultimate
tragedy in Shaq has copped to this, at least in
part now is that no, still the best was Kobe
and Shaq. But Shaq didn't have the work ethic in
order necessary to maximize the opportunity. But he would have

(02:06:21):
had to work a little harder at his relationship with
Kobe because they were more naturally diametrically opposed personalities and Penny,
but I think ultimately they would have reached higher They
still reach higher heights.

Speaker 4 (02:06:35):
Question, I don't one's talking on that point.

Speaker 5 (02:06:36):
Well, because and if I'm remembering correctly, it was that
Orlando told Shack the only way you're getting your number
is if we let Penny go. So he went to
the Lakers, and he did it very quietly, which broke
Penny's heart and fractured their relationship for many years. But
then shortly after it becoming Penny's team and sort of

(02:06:57):
him having the opportunity that Kobe would go on to have, Uh,
he got like catastrophically injured. He had like major knee
injuries within a season or two of Shock leaving.

Speaker 4 (02:07:09):
Yeah, he was so good, dude, like he was.

Speaker 5 (02:07:12):
He scared me, him tracing a. He and Tracy McGrady
to me are the dudes who, if ever, there was
an argument to make that, like, even though the totality
of their career and their achievements don't entirely warrant it,
if you were to listen to the commentary of their peers,

(02:07:34):
the body of work and ability put forth make the
argument that t mac and Penny both belong in the
Hall of Fame.

Speaker 4 (02:07:42):
I think that's a conversations.

Speaker 5 (02:07:45):
And because the Hall of Fame is technically for basketball,
not just it's also individual, so it includes college and
high school contribution.

Speaker 4 (02:07:55):
Penny should get into some that alone at college.

Speaker 5 (02:07:57):
Alone, because it wasn't I I wasn't following college basketball
like that in ninety two ninety three Memphs, but Penny,
Penny was was nice with it in college right as
a college player.

Speaker 4 (02:08:09):
He was to draft them number two. I think that
in the draft. Okay, a top people, but also he jumped.

Speaker 5 (02:08:15):
He jumped because of the shackfluence on the front office,
Like he wasn't projected to go that high. They were
my first round.

Speaker 4 (02:08:23):
But so the ninety three draft, Chris Weber was the pick,
but he got traded to Golden State for Penny, and
Penny ended up becoming you know, because they want a Penny.
I remember the times, like thirteenear olds. I'm thinking myself,
like why would you why would you trade Chris Webber? Yeah, Weber, Okay,
that's what it was.

Speaker 5 (02:08:42):
It was that the odds on like all indicators were
such that Orlando should have gone after Seaweb to pair
with Shack, and Shack derailed them from Seaweb and was like, no,
I want Penny, and they.

Speaker 4 (02:08:54):
Were they were right doing that. For the record, Yeah, because.

Speaker 5 (02:08:58):
I need segment that was in you believe he needed
he needed the.

Speaker 4 (02:09:01):
Point guard and at a time I understand that now
in yeah, they made them. Yeah, hindsight, no draft that was.

Speaker 5 (02:09:10):
Also that would have also been like Grant Hill and.

Speaker 4 (02:09:15):
Hill. Grant Hill was not.

Speaker 5 (02:09:16):
Grant Hill was ninety two and was ninety two.

Speaker 4 (02:09:19):
No, no, no quse light.

Speaker 5 (02:09:23):
Because the ninety four ninety five season is the year
that the Pistons went to the turquoise horse jerseys, and
they'd already had Grant Hill for a couple of years.
He wore the classic Pistons jersey. No, I'm pretty sure
Grant Hill got drafted in ninety two after the miracle
buzzer beater. Oh, so we were both wrong. Later he

(02:09:48):
had he had one year in the old jersey and
then it was the next season maybe it was ninety
five ninety six that they went to the turquoise.

Speaker 4 (02:09:57):
Yeah, that was. I think that's ninety five because ninety
five he was coed me he.

Speaker 5 (02:10:02):
Did his his rookie year. He wore the old jersey right.

Speaker 4 (02:10:05):
Also his rookie year too well, so he was co
Rookie of the Year with Jimmy Jackson. So Jimmy Jackson
the Mavericks. Yeah, he went to Ohio State. See nineties
nineties NBA. That's my fucking jam bro. Well, sure, Yeah,
that's that's that's we started paying attention. That's when I
was like hardcore, like hardcore.

Speaker 5 (02:10:24):
The first time I really sat down and watched the
whole playoff series was the finals in ninety one.

Speaker 4 (02:10:29):
The Bulls and Lakers.

Speaker 5 (02:10:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:10:31):
Yeah, so no, Penny Hardy man, he is so underrated
that Orlando team though, back in there to look, they
can claim to be the only team the Knights beat
to be Team two.

Speaker 5 (02:10:45):
Brandon Roy is another one that I would put right
there with t mac and and Penny in that very
sort of like tragic pro arc. I agree, Brandon Roy.

Speaker 4 (02:10:57):
Orlando can claim, though, to be the only team to
be Jordan in the nineties, not Detroit did nineteen ninety.

Speaker 5 (02:11:03):
But correct, they are the last team. They are the
last team to send Michael Jordan home in the playoffs. Yeah,
and the only team to do it after he started
winning championships.

Speaker 4 (02:11:14):
I am curious though, because this has been a debate.

Speaker 5 (02:11:17):
Was he was a non participatory the previous year and
then he came back mid year and got bounced.

Speaker 4 (02:11:24):
Right, correct, and then the right next year they bounced
the Orlando next year. I am curious though, I mean,
I don't know, I don't remember an the Eastern Conference
at the time in the late nineties. But I am curious.
Let's say there's a world that's it is a world
in the world, there's a world that Shack stays in Orlando. Okay, lak, yeahause. Wait.

Speaker 5 (02:11:42):
The teams that I just want to make sure the
landscape were picturing correctly. Is you're talking about obviously the
Bulls and everybody else, but everybody else more or less.
I was gonna say Nick Nicks, Heat, Hornets, Pacers, right, magic, magic,
So no, Nick Sixspasers, magic, They were all nasty.

Speaker 4 (02:12:02):
Right, So Shacks stays in Orlando for another five six
seven years.

Speaker 5 (02:12:07):
M hmm.

Speaker 4 (02:12:08):
They did go to the finals ninety five, lost the
Hakim in the sweep in ninety five, never got back again.

Speaker 5 (02:12:15):
Shacks stays and only at ninety three. No, that was
ninety three, ninety four. Oh no, no, no, that was
the Knicks. That was the Knicks in ninety three ninety four,
and then it was the Magic in ninety four ninety five.

Speaker 4 (02:12:24):
Okay, in the world Shaks in Orlando, how many tiles
they get based on the landscaping the neuse for conference.
Let's say let's say Shacks Stay's seven years in Orlando.
Zero that disagreeve that I didn't get one.

Speaker 5 (02:12:40):
No, I don't think. Well, okay, yeah, no, no, no,
you're right. You're right, they get a couple. And here's why. Well,
so the early two thousands become a Warriors level dynasty
for the Lakers if if Shaq never goes to the Lakers.

Speaker 4 (02:12:56):
I think they beat San Antonio one year though.

Speaker 5 (02:13:02):
Ninety nine, the taking that first one, that first one
that san that first one that san Antonio wins, because
Penny probably doesn't get injured in what was it ninety seven,
ninety eight something like that was when he had the
really awful it was like an a CL or an
NCL or something like that. Ninety seven, He's likely like

(02:13:23):
not carrying that much offensive load if Shaq is still there.

Speaker 4 (02:13:26):
And then remember off the table, so did you?

Speaker 5 (02:13:30):
Yeah, that ninety nine lockout shortened season that got David
Robinson his first and only I probably tips to Orlando
because the combination of what Orlando likely does from ninety

(02:13:51):
six to ninety nine in terms of talent acquisition, because
they've kept Shack and Penny. I don't think. I don't
think the the Twin Towers of young Tim Duncan and
old David Robinson are enough to stop ninety nine Shack
with Penny because I mean, think about how dominant disgusting

(02:14:13):
Shack was in ninety eight ninety nine when they and
then ninety nine two thousand when he won the MVP.

Speaker 4 (02:14:24):
And Mark and Mark. Here's the math I'm doing here.
I said seven years, right, I'm saying seven years from
ninety six, from.

Speaker 5 (02:14:33):
Six to three, provided provided Penny stays healthy and they
make good moves. Because let's not forget, like the other
players not named Shaq and Kobe on that on during
that three pet run don't necessarily get a lot of
love except from people like you and I, the Derek

(02:14:53):
Fishers and rit Foxes of the world. But like, let's
not forget that two thousand and one NBA Finals team
that lost but one game to do it due to
an Alan Iverson absolute shit show performance. I think what
Iverson went off for like fifty two in that game
they won or something? Yeah, uh, and that was the

(02:15:13):
stepover game. Like that two thousand and one Lakers team
is one of the greatest teams ever assembled. They went
through one of the most talented fields of NBA players
that have ever existed during the transition from like violent
ball to super scoring ball, and they are arguably right

(02:15:38):
there with the seventy two to ten ninety six Bowls
and the seventy win Warriors that lost, and then all
those other like the one Lakers are right there, and
they only have two Hall of Famers.

Speaker 4 (02:15:52):
Yeah. And here's the thing though, so say it's a
mad equation here ninety six, Shack stays, Pennon's Goetta hurt.
I still think Jordan wins the three because Jordan the bull.
That bolt was a stack in general, so Orlando, right,
So they still win the three titles.

Speaker 5 (02:16:08):
Okay, by ninety eight, it's close, and Jordan probably sees
a Game seven.

Speaker 4 (02:16:16):
Well he did see game seven, remember, because Indiana.

Speaker 5 (02:16:19):
Oh, that's true. It was only he never saw Game
seven in the finals, That's what it was. That's that
is true. So I think I think those those fights
to the top are much more difficult, and by ninety
seven ninety eight, the Jazz or the Spurs maybe steal
one because they're so beaten up by Shack and Penny.

Speaker 4 (02:16:41):
That's very true. And I think ninety I think we're.

Speaker 5 (02:16:46):
I think you got it joking on my own spit.

Speaker 4 (02:16:51):
I think by I think we're.

Speaker 5 (02:16:55):
Because like on paper, in the eighties, the Knicks were
every inch talent enough to beat the Bulls, but by
nineteen ninety six they weren't. The magic in ninety six,
ninety seven, ninety eight are just starting to hit their
old man strung. You know, that becomes a much bigger

(02:17:17):
mountain to climb for the Bulls.

Speaker 4 (02:17:18):
But they clipped the titles, they won't get three, like
like like Shaq and Kobe did it.

Speaker 5 (02:17:22):
I think they get definitely two of the three, but
maybe get bounced in the one finals in either ninety
seven or ninety eight. Right the title, they'll get twists
and ankle in game four, and then Shaq puts up
fifty two and twenty four in the next game, and
they steal the series from the Bulls, you know what

(02:17:43):
I mean, Like that is a very plausible outcome.

Speaker 4 (02:17:46):
They'll clip the night, they'll the titles between ninet nine,
two thousand and three, because remember off the board.

Speaker 5 (02:17:50):
This point now, yeah, but the Spurs become a juggernaut.

Speaker 4 (02:17:54):
Yeah, so they'll get it.

Speaker 5 (02:17:56):
The only thing that stopped the Spurs from basically going
on a four peat with Shack and Kobe and the
only year that the Lakers, the only two years that
the Shaq and Kobe Lakers lost, and an Eastern Conference
team like So, from ninety nine to like two thousand

(02:18:18):
and seven, I want to say, all but one championship
were won by either the Lakers or the Spurs, right,
and because the because the Shack the Shack heat snuck
one in there. Yeah, get and I think Tim Duncan
was injured that year or something, which is why Dallas
got past them in the in the in the West.

Speaker 4 (02:18:40):
They'll definitely get one title, possibly two in between ninet nine,
two and three.

Speaker 5 (02:18:44):
Question, I think the bull like you said, the Bulls
get two out of the three at least from ninety
six to ninety eight, maybe all three, but I'm not
sold on that. And then from ninety nine to three
they probably get one or two. Yeah, yeah, But I
don't know if by two two thousand and one they're
getting past San Antonio because that point there's there's too

(02:19:05):
much that even the juggernaut that is two thousand Shack
isn't enough to get around Greg Popovich and all those pieces.

Speaker 4 (02:19:14):
True, true Penny is my number.

Speaker 5 (02:19:16):
Because that's still Bruce Bowen, Sean Elliott, Early Manu, that's
pre Tony Parker. Yeah, maybe baby Tony Parker. And then
where Tim Duncan is just really starting to be unstoppable.
That that run from like two thousand to two thousand
and fourteen, Tim Duncan was just stupid.

Speaker 4 (02:19:37):
Right, No, Penn shit that I was gonna say. I
was gonna say, Penny Hardaway is my number two biggest
one off probably in NBA history, but number one is
Little grand Hill. Grand Hill. To me, it fels healthy
is a top ten player of all time. I've been
saying for years he's Lebron but morphiness.

Speaker 5 (02:20:00):
Yeah, I think Penny. I think if Penny doesn't get hurt,
he's d way. He's number three on the all time
shooting guard list.

Speaker 4 (02:20:10):
He was a point though. He was a point though,
was he? Yeah? I think that though six eight. That's
why I kept saying he's married. Johnson me.

Speaker 5 (02:20:20):
I think, I think if he sticks around longer, as
he starts to slow down, he moves from the one
to the possible, gets remembered at that size, he starts
becoming more of a spot up shooter because he already
had more natural range than a lot of the other
guys at his position, and I think he naturally moves
into a three and D spot up shooter kind.

Speaker 4 (02:20:40):
Of and he would fucking ball today today.

Speaker 5 (02:20:44):
Oh his game is today's NBA stupid, stupid think of it,
because if he is, if he's a kid that's born
in ninety nine, two thousand and getting drafted in twenty twelve, money,
that's a kid who's been shooting threes since he was eleven.
So Penny, who already had more range than Kobe mj

(02:21:09):
or a couple other guys coming into the league of
comparable position, Uh, he would have already had that base too,
So I mean he would have been hitting. Logo shows
Jenny from his first summer league.

Speaker 4 (02:21:22):
Penny would be on top right now. He'd be better
on Luca, he would because he's been defender bed defender. No, yeah,
he would better defender defender.

Speaker 5 (02:21:31):
Yeah, you're right. Yeah. I think Luca has ever so
slightly more in his bag on offense than Penny does.
But that's more that's probably more doing part to just
when he's played that players have deeper bags with more
moves than they did thirty years ago.

Speaker 4 (02:21:52):
Penny and Penny could play with anybody, Luke.

Speaker 5 (02:21:55):
Yeah, yeah, Luca has to have a more specific set
of players around him in order to be successful. That's yeah,
I'll give you that. I'll give you that. So anyway, Yeah, No,
Tenny's a Penny's a top five point guard, if top
top five point guard, top ten player, if he never
gets hurt and loses shock.

Speaker 4 (02:22:15):
Yeah, I think him and grand Hill both in my opinion,
would be top ten players.

Speaker 5 (02:22:19):
Yeah, and then Tracy McGrady is right, is right there
at the heels.

Speaker 4 (02:22:24):
Anyway, Mark, this might be a longest plockasts. We're done.

Speaker 5 (02:22:28):
Uh No, We've We've had a couple that I want
to say cracked three, but this is definitely up there.
This is definitely up.

Speaker 4 (02:22:36):
I'm not including the election one that was well yeah, yeah, no.

Speaker 5 (02:22:40):
No, no, no, I wouldn't. I would have never considered
election because that's a one off anyway, that's a live
coverage thing. But no, I think we've had a couple
of going way back when we were just fucking renegades
with this thing. I think we had a couple that
were I'll do some there were like some big marathons.

Speaker 4 (02:22:57):
We've done two hours and an hour and a half,
one now but not like love it though.

Speaker 5 (02:23:03):
You know what, and it's funny is we actually didn't
do that much with Epstein. That was the whole impetus
behind happen, and then we just kind of went to
the Yeah, we scraped, we scraped the service and it
didn't actually do much with it.

Speaker 4 (02:23:13):
What is though, we don't know what's in the files
yet what files come out?

Speaker 5 (02:23:17):
Yeah, and that's kind of the same thing we've always
been saying, is like call us, when call us, when
there's some there there, it seems like we're a whole
lot closer and some really disgusting ship is starting to
come out.

Speaker 4 (02:23:29):
That I think.

Speaker 5 (02:23:30):
Also, I think Prince Andrew is going to be one
of the threads that helps to unravel this because the
more and more that the royal family is lifting their
force field around him and just sort of throwing him
to the wolves of British tabloids, I think that connection
will open the door to lifting the veil on a

(02:23:53):
lot of the call it attempted reactions and attempts at
concealment from by by the Republicans.

Speaker 4 (02:23:59):
Yeah, well we'll find out soon, hopefully.

Speaker 5 (02:24:02):
And as close to the inner circle as anyone he
was sure.

Speaker 4 (02:24:05):
Was you want to plug anything we get in, Uh,
just our.

Speaker 5 (02:24:09):
Ongoing work with with HAC. Always HAC underscore us, HAC
underscore Haiti on all social media platforms. You know, the
latest hurricane got a lot of coverage for Jamaica, but
the southern departments in Haiti got hit really hard. Obviously
not nearly as as bad as what's taking place in Jamaica.
But our work continues and these, you know, these kinds

(02:24:33):
of storms only further exacerbate the ongoing conditions that you
and I have been speaking to for years. So tap
in with HC or it's www dot HAC global dot
org if you're a traditional webist, but tap in with us,
give us money, help our efforts, and go learn about Haiti.

Speaker 4 (02:24:57):
All right, Mark, good jobs always man, nice marathon man.
It's awesome.

Speaker 5 (02:25:00):
Yeah, that was a good one, A good thing. I
was well caffeinated.

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