Matthew Damian

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
The Earnestly Speaking Podcast is a show that is founded
on free flowing conversation and may it times venture into
mature subjects. Listener discretion is advised.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
Yeah, earnestly speaking, Marcus.

Speaker 3 (00:21):
List kindness, how much youngan in New York give MIYAMMI
carry he so much more to storm my product, give
flood the street. Opinion nation, god fama, see oh offend
the late None, he's gonna see me.

Speaker 4 (00:34):
Got my hustle on, No.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Limitation, no fads, army, untouchables opinionationous dad never went off
season homemade and checked the numbers, her propping my hole.

Speaker 4 (00:45):
Wait, supply your son the comfort. Earnestly speaking, my ego
was well fed.

Speaker 3 (00:50):
Earnestly speaking to people that don't bread see him like
a hurricane, durabile breeze.

Speaker 4 (00:57):
Earnestly speaking, leave it eat like a tiny greef.

Speaker 5 (00:59):
Sh podcast recording this on Thursday, September eighteenth, two thousand
and twenty five.

Speaker 6 (01:13):
We have an old friend of the podcast on this today.
It's my boy, Matthew Damien has been a very very
long time.

Speaker 4 (01:21):
Matt. How are you doing there?

Speaker 2 (01:23):
How did we made I'm doing great? How did we
mate was it on Twitter?

Speaker 4 (01:27):
It was on Twitter?

Speaker 2 (01:28):
Yeah, I think it was on Twitter. I remember you were.
I thought you were a Lakers fan in Miami.

Speaker 6 (01:35):
That's how isn't your cousin also, yes, sort of like
I don't really talked to him anyway much anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:43):
I don't see him much on it in anyone, but
I think that's when you met. Actually, yeah, you were Lily. Yeah,
I think it might have been thirteen years ago. Probably
it was.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
A long time. And yeah, I was still in Australia
and we'll get to that, I'm sure. But the you
were telling me Glenn Rice, Yeah, and I was thinking,
like I was asking you, like, why are you a
fan of the Lakers. I thought you were a Lakers
man and you were telling me Glenn Ris, Glyn bris
And then I put together and it's like heat faned.
Glen Brice is an amazing play man, so underrated. He's

(02:14):
Charlotte years maybe top five player in the in the
late League in nine ninety seven. But yeah, it's been
a long time, man.

Speaker 6 (02:21):
Yeah, I did some research here in my way. We're
going audio only today because I'm Matt. I guess it's
not spruced up today to do the show on video.
But then I realized that neither am I Like, I
haven't shaved yet, I'm not.

Speaker 4 (02:34):
Really bald, and my hair groll of it now. So
I'm out a.

Speaker 6 (02:37):
Whack, which is crazy because I started recording on the
podcast later on today the solo show for a Friday
for the Friday Show, a solo episode, and I got
to look good.

Speaker 4 (02:45):
So so I actually agree with solo for me?

Speaker 6 (02:49):
All right, No, no, no, no, but but I well,
that's good. That's a good point. Yeah, I messed up there. No, no,
that's a good point. That's a good point. No, I
deserve that criticism.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
Of course.

Speaker 6 (02:58):
I did some research here and the last time you
were on the show was January sixteenth, twenty nineteen, and
we did a review of the halfway point of the
NBA season in twenty nineteen. Brother, that is six That
is over six years ago.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
That's six and a half years.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
Man, You know what have you done? Were you still
Australia six years ago?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
No? No, I moved over June the fifteenth, twenty eighteen. Okay,
that memory is burnt into my brain. I'll never forget that.
I'll never forget having two suitcases at Sydney Airport. That's
a flight to Houston to then connect up to Detroit,
of all places, but having two having your life at

(03:43):
the age of jenez more than at twenty four, having
two suitcases on a one way ticket to literally the
other side of the world, that was daunting. I'll never
forget that. But it worked out. I'd love it here.
It was great here, but I mean it was it
was an avenure. Man.

Speaker 6 (03:57):
You've always been someone that you like, you always had
an offendity from America, like even when we talked back
in the day, and we never really got personal about
things back in the day. Like I remember when we
first we first met. We conversation but basically basketball related
and I think you were one of the bigger Lebron
James the critic critics at the time during the Miami

(04:18):
years and me and me of course I'm die Hermiami
he fan to this day. You know, it was it
could get contents to the times, but we we had
some really good conversations about you know, and b basketball.
And when I come to realize, because at the time
I think you're eighteen, I think around there, so thirteen
years ago. I mean, holl are you thirty one nine,
you said.

Speaker 2 (04:38):
Yeah, yeah, that that chicks out right.

Speaker 6 (04:41):
So you're eighteen, and you know you knew what the
fuck you were talking about, like you because I know
because I know my history ABA basketball too, so do you,
and you you were well researched.

Speaker 4 (04:52):
So it went from me thing, who's this.

Speaker 6 (04:55):
Punk eighteen year old kids talking about this ship like
you're going anything? So like, yo, this dude, know what
the fucking talking about?

Speaker 2 (05:00):
You know?

Speaker 6 (05:01):
So we end up end up getting a lot of
respect for you. We had some phenomenal conversations. In fact, guys,
this is the podcast. I look at the arch after
the show, you can find some of the conversations with
him and I had if it allows you. Of course,
I don't have how iTunes the algorithm works and they
allow you to check out past one hundred hundred episodes.
But you look up Matthew Damien for example, there's some
great conversation that we had in the past back when.

(05:23):
So yeah, we we end up becoming really good friends
in the process and whatnot. And it's great that you're
you know, let me okay, let's let's start. Let start
a first before you.

Speaker 2 (05:34):
Go on, I do want to say something. I appreciate
everything you just said like that. That makes a lot
to me because it's coming from you, and thank you.
What you don't know about it. So when I when
I started really looking at the basketball, my best friend
Josh was also a Miami Heat fan, huge Dwayne Weight fan,
right right, And he was a little bit older than me,
and he's great, great person, right, and he actually got

(05:58):
me into boss. Well. I'd play peakup boss well, but
I was I was a rugby player man, and I
would serve I wasn't into basketball hardcore, right. But then
he got really sick. And I'm not going to try
and get personal with this, but he got really sick.
So I went to visit him at hospital and stuff
like that, and we started playing NBA two K and
we started talking about basketball and it was actually Bill Simmons.

(06:19):
I remember, we talked about this a lot. You and
I talked about this a lot. And Bill Simmons wrote
the Book of Basketball around that time, and we looked
at it and we read it and we're like, hold
on a second, he's you know, the secret or whatever
that he had in that book was you know, putting
team's success above individual success. And then he totally miserrated

(06:40):
Lebron for the decision. Right. I had no problem with
Lebron leaving Cleveland, right, that has, but him doing it
on ESPN and making a whole spectacle that was unprofessional
at best, right and.

Speaker 4 (06:54):
You stuff that went out.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
No, No, I had no problem with him going to Miami.
Now what I had problem was with is he then
because if you wanted structure, if you wanted system, if
you wanted success, if he wanted a place that breeds
success and demands success and accountability, Miami hasn't waivered on that.
It never has from the moment pat Riley walks through
that door. What was it in ninety five ninety six

(07:18):
when he left New York and became you know, and
then he's traded for Alonzo Morning and brought in Tim
Hardaway and all those other guys. He is and pat
this is pat Riley to a team, whether it's the
Lakers on the Knicks, he's always demanded accountability and he's
always produced success. Right, one of the like he is
the Bill Belichick of the NBA. It's not Phil Jackson,

(07:40):
it's actually pat Riley. And when we looked so for
Lebron then to leave to go back to Cleveland and
then to go to LA And he's probably going to
find one more stop before he's out and might be
back in Cleveland and who knows where, Like he'll find
the best location for him, right, And that's okay, Like

(08:00):
I'm not against say, but what I am against is
him holding his teammates to total accountability when he is
also the reason for some of the catastrophic failures in LA. Right,
and also with the melt that we forget about the
meltdowns that he had before leaving Cleveland. And also you
would know this what happened in the twenty eleven finals

(08:22):
and also to a lesser extent, the twenty fourteen finals.
He was stat padding a lot in those series, so
on paper you can look back and say, well, he
averaged these this amount of points. Yeah, Kawhi landad torched
him in that second that finals rematch with the Spurs.
So I'm going on a long winded ran about Lebron,

(08:43):
But I was where I wanted to go with this
is when you when I started writing, doing the blog
and redoing the top fifty players of all time, because
Josh and I were going to do that to redo
what Bill Simmons did because we thought the rankings were
way off and a lot of players.

Speaker 4 (09:00):
Yeah, he did that a night right basketball.

Speaker 2 (09:04):
I'm not sure. I can't give you the date on that,
but it was around there. And Josh had that book
and he gave me that book so I could learn
about it, so I could talk to him about it,
right course, And I was I would never have done podcasting,
But then you and I started conversing. You actually got
me into podcasting. I think you're the I think and
I said this off here and I said to you,
I think you're the best of the business because whoa

(09:26):
whoa Really Yeah, but I'll say this because you have
never chased success. You're not going after dollars. It's still
authentically you, Like, can you tell me Steven A. Smith
is really the guy that you see on first take?
Can you tell me that you know any of these
other personalities shout and sharp whoever is really that's really
what they believe? Or are they doing that to get rage,

(09:49):
clicks and engagement. You have never chased that. And I've
always been very appreciative of you for staying true to
who you were and staying pure to who you are
because you haven't been diluted or diminished like that. I
appreciate this, and I thank you for being the inspiration
to me in terms of not just doing podcasts but

(10:10):
also the way I think. So I appreciate you, man,
Thank you.

Speaker 4 (10:13):
Man. I wipe my right eye. Let me get you
a tissue, man, EXTENSI Okay, so real quick, look at
what's up?

Speaker 2 (10:29):
What's up?

Speaker 4 (10:29):
An soon in a little bit, because I was because
other things.

Speaker 6 (10:31):
I want to because first of all, I mean, we
do talk offline quite often, but you know it's just
that we have a lot to catch up on, you know,
with with life. First off, Okay, so you came in
America twenty eighteen. You were married initially, right, yes, right,
and then you got then you got divorced, yes that
is true, right, and then now you're getting remarried now again.

Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah. Yeah, so it all worked out so right. I
was living because you came.

Speaker 4 (10:58):
You came in America based on on on the pretense, pretense,
but with the.

Speaker 2 (11:02):
That was the visa America. Yeah, it was a key
one visa. So if you watch crappy reality show, that's
the visa I came on.

Speaker 6 (11:09):
But I think I think we did touch on the
past about that you your girlfriend know your first wife,
like you would come to Australia to visit you and
vice versa, and he goes, right.

Speaker 2 (11:19):
Yeah, I don't want to speak too much about her
that that yeah, is dead, done and buried. But what
I will say is that challenged me in ways, and
I'm not flawless in that, Like it wasn't like but
she can go to hell. It's just's like looking back
at it, like she could like, it's just how I feel, right.
But without that situation, I never moved to America. As

(11:45):
much as I loved America, I like I had deep
respect from America. Australia was my home right, and America
is a great country. Now America is my home, and
more importantly, Texas is my home and my Beyonce and
my soon to be wife is my home right. And
without all of those things happening, one I would never
if I didn't go through that, I wouldn't be the

(12:06):
man that she needs, Like in terms of mental toughness
and in terms of being emotionally acute and being aware
and being supportive and loving towards her. I've done a
lot of growing up. I was twenty four when that happened. No,
now thirty one, which I know is probably crazy for
you to hear. But the reality you've watched me grow up. Man, Hey,

(12:31):
soon you'll know longer in my life than you didn't
know me right in five.

Speaker 4 (12:35):
That's the crazy thing, Like, well, I mean almost. I
mean again, you're eighteen when I met you.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, so you'll have known me for longer. Yeah, yeah, crazy, yeah,
But the story is. And then I moved to Nashville.
That was during COVID, and I had to go through
immigration at the toughest of times. And I'm sure we'll
get into all of that soon. And then I ended
up in Texas, ironically because of my cousin. Because my

(13:03):
cousin was a Dodgers fan or still is a Dodgers fan,
and they were playing the World Series. You would laugh
at this story. They were playing the World Series out
here in Dallas or in Arlington, right, And he thought
when I told him that I moved to Tennessee, he
thought I moved to Texas. And he told me that
they had tickets to the ALCS and invited me to it.
And I'm like, well, dude, I live in Tennessee in Texas,

(13:27):
I had up in going on at that point, so
I couldn't get a flight because it was during COVID,
So I ended up driving fourteen hours, sixteen hours whatever
it was from Nashville to Dallas to go to these games.
Because I too was a Dodgers fan. I loved I've
been a Dodgers Stadium one of Well, I am no
longer a Dodgers fan because my allegiance is now with

(13:47):
the Rangers because I'm living here right So I still
have a soft spot for the Dodgers, but I can't
be on board with a franchise that will just buy
players that I rooted against so vehemently for so long.
Leo Tani's, the Blake Snells, the Freddie Freemans. We used
to brew them like crazy. We used to laugh at them,

(14:08):
we used to mock them. We were Cody Bellingers, Will
Corey Seegers, and now as a Ranger, we were those guys,
Will JT, Will Turner, Will Kershaw. We're not this team,
and we became the Yankees. So and that along with
like we knew to Ranger Stadium. It is a beautiful atmosphere.
It's no Glitzer's, no glamour, it's just to enjoy the

(14:30):
beautiful game of baseball. So I am no longer a
Dodgers fan. That will have a spot in my heart.
Dodgers Stadium will always have a spot in my heart,
but I am a Rangers fan. But anyway, that's why
I moved to Texas, because I've moved to Texas. I
drove to Texas, spent two and a half weeks out here,
and I was like, wow, I moved to the wrong state,
starting with Tea, and then I had started planning moving back.

Speaker 4 (14:50):
To Dint in Ohio. First yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (14:54):
Then I moved to Nashville, and then after the divorce
and everything like that, I moved to to Nashville. But
I'm so glad that I moved to Texas because I
had friends who were American that were in Australia and
they said that I was always a Texan at heart.
They thought that this is way before I even moved
to the states, right, they knew I was moving to,

(15:15):
you know, the Midwest, but they had always thought I'd
end up in Texas because there's something about Texas that
I had that kind of energy, right, and that were right.
I love the hell of the people out here, especially
in Dallas, Like Dallas, Austin. I like Houston as well.
I haven't been to San Antonio, but there's something about

(15:37):
the just the energy and the confidence and the note
bullshit attitude that Texans have that I really identify. I
don't agree with a lot of their stuff, including their politics.
A lot of the politics will disagree, but ultimately I
feel more at home here now than ever. And I've
found my soulmate. I've found the person that I love because.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
You met her there right in Texas.

Speaker 2 (15:58):
Oh yeah, yeah, she's born and bred here in Dallas, Okay.

Speaker 7 (16:03):
And and ultimately, in all of this before I'm taking
up too much of the mic no no, no, no worries,
but the ultimately like the this is where I was
meant to be and I, you know, for me to
we'react getting too sappy to go through what I went
through and then to be openly.

Speaker 2 (16:27):
Very energetic and happy about going through this process of
getting married again. That tells you what's kind of a
wonderful person she is. And you know she's made me
better spirit truly has.

Speaker 4 (16:39):
That's excellent. That's amazing, that's amazing.

Speaker 6 (16:41):
I love hearing stories like that, especially when it comes
to like you know, you know, the potential marriage and
and all that stuff.

Speaker 4 (16:48):
I'm a sap. I don't give a shit. I'm a
stap in that one.

Speaker 6 (16:51):
That way, you know my wife and I like my
wife has some impact on me where I you know,
for the first time in my life now, in this
last years, I'm comfortable being vulnerable now in ways I
wasn't before. You know what I'm saying, And that's that's
a good thing, bro, That's a good thing to be
open like that, you know. I mean, it doesn't make
you do it, does it make you doesn't make less masculine. Fact,

(17:11):
if that makes you more masculine, because it makes you
more it actually puts you. It gives you more better
nuance on how to make decisions and how you get life.
So I'm gonna feel about.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
The words you just use. You talked about vulnerable, right,
and it takes balls to be It takes courage to
be vulnerable. It's easy to just push everything down and
it doesn't affect you, of course. So I agree one
hundred percent of what you're saying. It's more masculine to be. Like,
if we want to throw the word masculine, there I
don't like that being gendered because there's a lot of

(17:40):
women that have to be have courage to encourages it
just in masculine trade. Right, absolutely, But it does take
a lot of courage to to to be open to what, Hey,
this affects me. And I'm going to tell you that
it affects me because someone could laugh in your face
and it makes you feel even worse.

Speaker 4 (17:55):
Then that's so true. That's so true.

Speaker 2 (17:58):
But yeah, carriage, not the masculinity's the charriage.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
So when when you guys get married, like this year
or next year, next month?

Speaker 2 (18:08):
Oh shit, six, oh, I know it's coming up, maybe
it's uh less than forty days.

Speaker 4 (18:15):
I mean, I'm not gonna not not not to press here.
Do you guys want kids?

Speaker 2 (18:19):
Of course? Yeah, she's gonna be she's gonna be a
wonderful mother.

Speaker 4 (18:23):
Don't don't say of course because that's a lot of
people now these I don't know.

Speaker 6 (18:26):
I don't know if it's generational now, but I find
a lot of people this day and age, and maybe
it's just the generation I'm living through.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
You know, either I don't want kids at all, or
want to have one kid, they're done. I don't I don't.

Speaker 6 (18:40):
I don't see a lot of people desiring a big
family Moore, I don't know. I know because of the economy.
I don't know, because it's just personal beliefs or it's
just like personal I would argue some of it, but selfish,
but that's it's my opinion. But a lot of people
are not as apt to having kids that they used to.
And yeah, it doesn't bother me at all, but it's
the same time, it's like what I was raised to do. Anyway,

(19:02):
I'm ver traditional that way.

Speaker 2 (19:05):
No, I get what you're saying, dude. When I say,
of course, it's just because when you like, if you
ever see my fiance with children, you will see just
pure love for them, right, Like she has a niece
and two nephews, right, and she looks after them, and

(19:27):
you see the love being reciprocal too, Like those those
kids they love her, they adore her, right, And so
the of course, obviously we've talked about it, and we've
talked about it extensively, you know, like this is what
we want to do. And so to me, the of
course is just for our situation. Like people don't want
to have kids, hey, that that's their decisions. That they

(19:50):
want to make in life. I'm never going to infringe
on that. I'm never going to sell like hey, because
I was raised with you know, two other brothers that
what are you you doing for the country? You know?
The hell with that you do you first?

Speaker 6 (20:05):
Yeah, I mean that's it's different. I mean the world
is different today in general, man, across across all boards.

Speaker 4 (20:13):
I guess we can touch on it right now.

Speaker 6 (20:15):
We want to because one of the things that we
we we've been talking about doing the podcast, so actually
about it up almost a year, but we just kind
of have had just a narrow down a day and
now we as we figured out to just do it
next week, is do next week this whole Charlie Kirk thing,
you know, obviously dissassination And I've touched this on this
topic on the show for the last week. People know

(20:36):
might take on it and what what what my my
thoughts on the whole situation? You know, obviously we we
we talked about a little bit on offline about what's
been going on. You've been very vocal about some of
your positions and in reaction to the world at large
about the situation. What what's your thoughts on everything? In
the last week since then.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
It was it was horrible. Now I'm not politically aligned
with him, right, I've just I feel like I'm obligated
to say that, right, not because it's just the way
that the reactions have been. Right now, it's like, unfortunately,
it's become a political football. Like it's become tribal, as

(21:17):
as abortion, as has guns, as has covid right, and
now the Charlie and to a lesser extent, George Floyd
as well, that became tribal as well. Right, all these
topics became well, you're saying this because of this, or
you're saying that because of that. No, Listen, I did
not care for his content. I didn't care for his style.

(21:40):
I thought it was gotcha moments with college kids. I
didn't care for any of that. Very effective communicator, but
it's kind of like putting, you know, an NBA player
up against a grade school kid like that. That wasn't
a fair situation and they didn't have the ability to
really process. Now, in all fairness, I think a lot
of those kids were trying to get the gotcha back
moments back, But who owns the cameras? Who weren't the

(22:00):
editing capabilities, who owns the microphone, who owns the security
that could usher somebody off. We don't know if there's
like some of these kids have actually owned Charlie Kirk
in those situations. We just don't know because we're only
seeing it coming from one source. Right that all being said,
this was a horrible day for humanity, and it became
a horrible event for humanity because at the end of

(22:22):
the day, he would like whether you agree with him
or you disagree with him. And just again for the record,
I do not agree with a lot of what he
had to say about political topics, but he was not violent.
He was he never a promoted violence. And to be

(22:42):
assassinated in broad daylight in to run of thousands of
people and probably hundreds of millions of people have watched
that video, myself included, and I didn't know what I
was watching when I saw that he would being shot.
So I'm looking it up because you know, I knew
who he is, and the video came straight up obviously
the search result, you know, and to hear that he's

(23:05):
His wife and his kids were at the event and
they saw that that is as bar Barrick out of
a situation as you could possibly imagine, and as bad
as that is. People on our side. People will want
to say outside, like I lean left on a lot
of things.

Speaker 4 (23:24):
Funny, that's but you was funny, Like I always thought
you were are more right leaning.

Speaker 2 (23:29):
No, I I hold my side accountable.

Speaker 4 (23:33):
I'm a settle left by myself.

Speaker 6 (23:34):
And yeah, but I'm also someone that's been on policy
is supposed to like all the culture war stuff.

Speaker 4 (23:40):
But yeah, go ahead, oh.

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Yeah, yeah, let me clarify that. So it depends on
the topic. There's certain things that I have conservative values.
So like, I'm very financially, I'm a tight ass, right.

Speaker 4 (23:50):
What about the money?

Speaker 6 (23:51):
My guy, my guy, af my wife shall tell you.
I am at frugal as they come. I will stretch
a dollar and a half.

Speaker 2 (23:56):
To Yeah, I love that too, And I'll go to
t J Max. I don't even have to, but I'll
go there because I want to get a good deal. Right.

Speaker 6 (24:02):
I hate spending money. I can't stand it with my passion.
I can't stand spending money. I hate it, so continue.
So my my point is in all of this is I.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
He's like I for more topics than that, For more
I am left leaning than I'm right leaning, right, So
if I if I had to do the whole spectrum
thing right right, one hundred percent being maga or whatever,
zero percent would be, I don't know, like Antifa right

(24:37):
and in the middle you've got your moderates. I would
say I'm within the forty to forty five percent overall, right,
So that's where I sit sort of thing right, So
he's Charlie Kirk's probably on the seventy seventy five percent
on the other side, right, So I have to preface
that in saying that, like, he's not on my side
of politics right, right, But to see my side and

(24:57):
people that are closer to me and people that I
know celebrate this and record it and laugh about it
and like like always the bullet okay, you know, and
then laugh hysterically Like that made me that, as I said,
this is as barbaric of a thing as possible that
you could imagine. But we on the left, we try

(25:23):
to make out that we have moral superiority. We're the
good guys, right, We're the ones that want we don't
want school shootings right ironically, and they're the cheering and
school shooting. But the that made me really evaluate because
obviously no one like we don't identify with the shooter, right,
we don't say he's like even though he's we'll get

(25:45):
into that in a second, but like that person was
so far gone, Like there's no redeemable qualities in something
if you're going to do that, right. But but there
are a lot of people that I that I know
personally that we're actually cheering this and laugh at this,
and that's to make like the humanity side of this.
He was Charlie Kirk and his wife and these kids

(26:06):
are still at the end of the day, they are
still human beings, right, and they still deserve dignity as
human beings. And for the body to still be warm,
and for people that are claiming to be the caring
side to be laughing and cheering and celebrating is just
that that was repulsive and it was disgusting, and I

(26:26):
and I and I was appalled by that too.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
Yeah, I was too. I was also And again I've
I followed Trony Kirk for years. I follow him since
twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, and I would say, I.

Speaker 2 (26:39):
He was my age, did you know he was my age? Yes?

Speaker 4 (26:41):
Pretty one? He was pretty one.

Speaker 6 (26:42):
Yeah, one, yeah, yeah, I you know, disagree about seventy
five percent of things he said, Like, I agree with
some of the some of those traditional stances I tend
to agree with, like in terms of like you know,
the family and the dynamic and all that. You know,
not totally, but at least some of the things he says.

Speaker 4 (26:58):
I see his point.

Speaker 6 (26:59):
But what I've always like, I've always respect about Charlie
Kirk though, I mean before he passed away, was the
fact that he was open to the dialogue. Now, yes,
is there some gotcha in there?

Speaker 4 (27:07):
A little bit? Absolutely there is.

Speaker 6 (27:08):
I mean because at the end of the days, it's
still a company. They're still trying to get to get clicks,
I mean, trying to court. You say, it's a massive company.

Speaker 4 (27:16):
But I all, but look, this platform itself, this podcast itself,
is all based on free speech and.

Speaker 6 (27:24):
Based on open dialogue. As long as we're not having
we're not throwing hateful people around. I have people on
both sides of the out on the show who come
on the show regularly. You know, I have conservatives come
to the show as much as much as liberals. You know,
we and we have productive conversation. And this will be
the platform to do that, you know, and I always
appreciated that about him. Now some of the things he says,
we're very troubling obviously, even so I would defend his

(27:47):
right to free speech to this day. And yes, it's
just a moment now where you know, we're not we're
not going in the right direction. We haven't been going
to rectress for a long time. And then we have
all these events that happened where it's COVID, whether it's
sort Floyd, whether it's whatever, it may be a random
school shooting, X, Y and Z, and then have this
situation we are just going in a direction now where

(28:08):
you know, I think we still don't realize we'll still
being uh, the algorithm is still affecting everything while you know,
I just think that we are so online. We are
too online as people that we we we need to get.

Speaker 4 (28:24):
Back to basics. Basics this how do your neighbor, how
your neighbor, how you doing open a door? You know,
things that nature. We are so for gone. It's funny
because like social media is funny, because how is how
you and I met. You know, we are so more
connected now than ever and yet disconnected as people give

(28:44):
me isn't that crazy? Think about that?

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Yeah, let me take it one step for social media.
Social media has done some really good stuff in the world.
More important, like people don't talk about this, but when
people are depressed, and then ironically chet apt has done
job and LM's have having a great job of this too.
When people depress and they're lonely that they've reached they

(29:06):
find solace in people talking about those problems, talking about
being vulnerable. Before it was being the ultimate sign of courage, right,
And when you're vulnerable, when you're weak, sometimes you can't
reach out even to a therapist. Right. So when you
go online and you find videos of people talking about
this stuff, and I'd love to see we'll never get

(29:28):
these numbers. I'd love to see how many people were
being able to save because of social media. Now conversely,
it's now going in the other direction, right where where
you talked about give you a neighbor a hug and
smile at them and shake their hand and all that stuff.
How about we just take it one step back and
just not judge your neighbor. Let's not tell them what

(29:49):
they're thinking, like why they're saying things. How about we
listen to what they're saying. Let's judge their actions, right,
Let's not saying, well, you're saying this. And the big
reason that I said, okay, I didn't like Charlie Kirk's content,
or I didn't agree with his stances on a lot
of things, most of these things, ninety five percent of

(30:09):
these things, is because if you hear this, just like
you thought before that I was more conservative. Now the
reason I like, I'm critical of my side is I
don't really even care what Republicans but we conservatives. I
want my side to be better. So I'm concerned with
us being our best, not just better than the other.
Clean your own house, yes, myselves accountable on all this, right,

(30:34):
And that's kind of like where I'm at with all this,
where it's you have to, well, I'm saying you have to.
I'm talking about myself here in second place, I just
want I want there to be a situation where if
I say something, it should be irrelevant. If I voted
for Donald Trump and I have this opinion on Charlie Kirk,

(30:55):
or if I voted for Kamala Harris and I have
this opinion on Charlie Kirk, if that opinion, that opinion
should be legitimate evil way, and I shouldn't have to
preface it or legitimize it by saying and and that's
that's disheartening because now everything because it is so tribalistic,
or you hate Lebron because of this. I actually don't
hate Lebron like I just here's what he is, right,

(31:18):
He's a great player, you know, top ten player of
all time. That's as far as I'll go with it.
I don't have him on my top five. And I'll
justify that till I'm blue in the face. Give me
Larry Bird over him.

Speaker 4 (31:27):
I will take Larry that's podcast buddy.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
Day. But I will argue that I'm blue in the face.

Speaker 6 (31:37):
Like you're also well well on the track of quick
but yeah, you're the second person that in my life
that that's that's said this to me and have a
strong stance on that.

Speaker 2 (31:44):
So yeah, it's not even close. Like I have who
I like. But once again I hold, I hold, I
had like a very basic structure like philosophy when it
comes to basketball to like judging basketball players, and that
also transfers over Am I going to put my money
where my mouth is? So if I'm ranking players and

(32:06):
We're taking the audience on a ripe with this one.
If I'm ranking players, if I have the choice to
pick player A or player B to be on my team,
who am I picking? Because then I have to lip
with that decisions. Not just like well, I like Lebron
James better because he has these great dunks. It's like, no,
I want to win the game, So me taking Larry

(32:26):
Bird is trying to win the game. So me also
having these views on politics, I am trying to hopefully
have stances that will improve me as a person by
being accountable and also the people, and that by proxy
is wanting people around me to be better as well,
because they're not make me better or they'll hold me accountable.

Speaker 8 (32:47):
Because if I was getting up there laughing and mocking
or even questioning whether Charlie Kirk deserved this on any level,
I would I would.

Speaker 2 (32:59):
Need somebody like you, or my cousin or my fiance
to say, Matt, no, this is wrong. Yes. And so
that is my mentality with this, is that making sense?

Speaker 4 (33:12):
No, next perpose, bro, It's complete sense, you know.

Speaker 6 (33:17):
And the thing with me, though, is because I am
politically moderate and I have friends on both sides of
the equally, I would say fifty fifty. Honestly, some of
me would say that it's actually quite maybe tilt the
world to the right, I guess in some sense. But
I do get I do get both ends of the
spectrum when it comes to like the reaction, Like I've
gotten everything from on the left where people like saying

(33:38):
they look, they don't they don't care whatever, which is whatever,
And then you have people to write who I've talked
to have said that this is war and that you know,
we need we need to I've heard words of uh,
you know, we need to like uh kill kill the
left or you know, get you know, get rid of him.
And I'm like, that's not a productive either, that's a

(33:59):
productive either, Like you're part of the problem, like you're and.

Speaker 4 (34:03):
You literally kirk you literally doing that.

Speaker 6 (34:05):
Toli Kirks poke against also too, he's a he's a
free speech absolutist.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
But I I haven't heard that from the riot And
I was gonna give them credit, like because they have
responded to this in a much more peaceful way that
I thought that we're gonna respond.

Speaker 6 (34:19):
Why the numbers, I would say, yes, I do think
there's something to be said the right. The right does
in in numbers. They do better at the emotion thing.
After tragedy, they do better with that. I will say,
we're still left. I don't know, I don't It might
it might be the religion thing. Honestly, it may be religion.

Speaker 4 (34:39):
I don't know. I don't know.

Speaker 6 (34:41):
But like when George Floyd happened, there was riots. I'm
not saying whether not justified or not, you know, but
there were riots.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
People don't left.

Speaker 4 (34:50):
Most people don't left.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
You know that.

Speaker 4 (34:51):
It is what it is. And look, I'm not saying
making George Forod a hero. I'm just saying that this
that's that's just that's that's just what happened. I'm just
going to based on the facts basically, my, my, my, wrong.

Speaker 2 (35:03):
You're not wrong. I mean they were right. People died,
ironically twenty people like I think it was like nineteen
and only that.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
And then businesses were also affected by the riots and.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Their own communities too. It was like those communities that
haven't rebuilt since like that, that's like we can't go
down our own cities, like I don't know. That to
me was was very very.

Speaker 6 (35:25):
Strange, right, and it's frustrating too, because like that, now
we're playing the moral politic and the moral code here,
who's morally right? I mean, the anger, the anger, the
anger was justified in the George Ford thing, but the
reaction and the and the deaths and the whatnot and.

Speaker 4 (35:43):
The business being burned down was not. Because you're also
burning businesses down people who may be on your side also.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
Too, right down people dying in the ironically in those rights.

Speaker 6 (35:56):
So I mean, but we're so divided now, and it's
it's I don't know where they want to go, and
to me, I go back to the basics. And it's
funny like because after the election last year, because I
you know, I do talk about pulicles on a show
quite often, but after the election last last year, I
made a decision to just, you know what, I'm gonna
back away a little bit for the politics timeterio.

Speaker 4 (36:17):
Not because I don't want to talk about it, but
because I'm just burnt out.

Speaker 6 (36:20):
And I found myself also and I spoke about this,
for I found myself getting in more arguments with the
people who I'm on the same side with than they're
way around, and I thought, like, include my own life
for the record.

Speaker 4 (36:34):
So I'm like, Okay, I gotta stop. I gotta stop.
This is too much.

Speaker 6 (36:37):
So I go back to my rabbit hole, walk back
to like, Okay, you know what my safe space, which
is sports and music and wrestling and all the things
I care about that keep that that, you know. My
my people say, well you should care, Well, no, I
I do, funk I want how about that? You don't
tell me how to hold my life. You know, I'm
gonna tell you live your life. You just need me
to talk alone, you know what I mean. So I'm

(36:58):
I've that's the political talk a little bit more recently.
But again when I talk about pulits in the show,
it's more about I'm reacting to things I see, like
if Donald Trump says something that's controversial or something that's
worth discussing, I'm gonna talk about in the show. And
it's not giving a position, is me is give an opinion,
you know. And and that's why I've calmed down on
the political talk on the show in the last year,

(37:21):
which I hate because I do like talking about this stuff.
I love having I pride myself in you know, being
that public you know, being the podcast that has open
conversation with people and we're still gonna do that. But
you know, it's just now it's it's it's so pooresting.
And then now we have the Jimmy Kimmel thing that
happened last night. Jimmy Kimmel, I guess so ABC disnet

(37:44):
even want to call it a suspend. Definitely more comments
team made and from what we understand, the comments were
made basically accusing. So I'm reading, I'm just right here.
During his monologue, I think last week, kim Will accused
the Mega Gang of trying to pull us as a
murder Chrolie Kirk and attempted to frame the accused killer
as a member of the movement. He also mocked by

(38:05):
President jad Vance. These comments drew sharp criticism from conservative
figures and media outlets. Now the FCC, the shemany FCC
brending cars publicly condemned Kimbil's remarks, stating them calling them
sick and a lie. He suggested that ABC and his
license affiliates could face regulatory consequences, including fines or the
revocation of licenses if they don't didn't take action on

(38:27):
Kimmel's show.

Speaker 4 (38:28):
In a statement, he said, we can do this the
easy way or the hard way.

Speaker 6 (38:31):
Shortly after the threats, ABC came to announced that Jimmy Kimbli,
who suspended definitely. The decision came at the next Star.
A major operator of ABC affiliates, publicly objected to Kimble's
comments and stated would preempt the show on the stations.
I'm trying for anyone else he or any blowout here
from this. The reaction has been very obviously like President Kay,
I'm stale. Everybody who's on the right it loves to

(38:53):
love the decision and was allowed to hate the decision.
Me personally, I can't. I can't stand Jimmy Kimble.

Speaker 4 (38:58):
I never liked them.

Speaker 6 (38:59):
I in fact, is probably the most unfunny linkedline to
holes in the history of late like to holes in
my opinion, Having said that, there.

Speaker 4 (39:09):
Is the gray area. What' talk about here? What's your
thoughts and under decision here by ABC?

Speaker 9 (39:15):
Oh, I'm not comfortable with it right like I like,
but I so it's a it's it's there's a lot
of business.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
Rationale into why that decision was made correct right in
the same way. Look, taker Carson was making hand over
fist money for Fox News, but then when he started
spewing well the election was rigged. In twenty twenty narratives,
Fox got rid of him.

Speaker 4 (39:45):
Well, you don't why that rhym because there was a lawsuit.

Speaker 2 (39:48):
There was a lawsuit that they lost that they lost.
Yes with dominion. Yes, once again, it came down to money.
It came down money, and it came to a business
decision and the moment that advertisers start walking away in
the lawsuit, the lawsuit never said that they had to
fire Tucker Carson. Right. Did he lose Fox a lot
of money? Yeah? But he's also made them a lot

(40:09):
of money too, right, Yeah, and he was still an
asset to their programming. But they fired him probably because
not just of the money that was lost in that lawsuit,
but also advertisers were about to pull the pin on
advertising on Fox News because of what that what you're
now associated with right now, Do I agree with Jimmy

(40:29):
Kimmel's comments, No, I don't. I one hundred percent don't
because but he's allowed to have that opinion. But at
the same time, when you were a you're allowed to
have that opinion in a private setting. A business also
has the ability to do what's best in business for them,
best for business for them Where I get uncomfortable though,

(40:51):
is when the SEC is saying, can we do this
easy way? I can do this a hard way. That
is an intimidation. That is intimidation that is.

Speaker 4 (40:58):
Also borling authoritarism.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Yes, and and it's that is a like he is
and let's just call a spade of spade. I also
don't like Jimmy Kink Like.

Speaker 10 (41:09):
I never found his stuff a bit like a smart
like I can't stand I just I just don't know
what he's actually done. That's stuffing money money like the Eagles,
and like you can talk about like John Stewart's.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Funny, like he's a funny guy and smart. Yes, and
I anyway that like where and he's also on the
left too, right, So John Stewart as his as his Kimmel.
But where I'm going with this is he if he
wanted to die on this sword, which he is. You know,

(41:42):
he's been poking at Trump for ten years now, like
twenty sixteen is now twenty twenty five. And you know
he cried after the election. I mean, like there's that
meme of him crying. It like like, oh, he wants
to tear up the Constitution now because he's crying in right,
I remember that. But the he's allowed to have an
opinion personally, but if that opinion goes into a professional

(42:06):
situation and advertisers start pulling the pin on that so
long winded way of saying, I am comfortable with the
decision if it is purely business related, like I feel
sorry for him because how long has he been doing
these twenty five years?

Speaker 4 (42:20):
I don't know, right, at least twenty years.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
Yeah, And for your career to basically be ended because
of that, that sucks. It really does suck, because I
think I think his heart's in the right place. I
don't think he was trying to like stoke up flames
or anything like that. I think he's I think he
genuinely feels what he's feeling. Right, But if it was
for his career to come to an end there, that

(42:43):
does suck. But if he if the decision for him
to be suspended came from pressure from the SEC and
ultimately this administration, I have a big problem with that.
But if it came from the from the from ABC
pulling because I can't remember which advertising group you said
was about to disassociate and pull all their funds and

(43:05):
their spots away. Yeah, yeah, whoever it was, they obviously significant.
Then I'm more comfortable with that than the administration yanking
came out of the situation.

Speaker 4 (43:19):
Yeah, I'm with you. I don't like it.

Speaker 6 (43:21):
I think it's it's it's a it's a bridge too far.
And by the way, I would call it the same
way there's a democratic office doing the same thing.

Speaker 4 (43:27):
Free free speech.

Speaker 6 (43:28):
Now I haven't said that then masking this under the
guise of well, it's also us as a consequence thing.

Speaker 4 (43:35):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 6 (43:36):
But what it's also clear, and this has been said
already publicly, is that the administration approaches the FCC to
do something which did approach ABC do something which in
the ABC made a decision based on the threats of
two parties.

Speaker 2 (43:48):
Right, you know, we can't be.

Speaker 6 (43:49):
Say freemum speech and then we are okay with this,
like look cheered Jimmy Kilby being fired. If he wants
to you like the guy, I don't give a m
but also understand that this can happen something that you
like also too, and don't get mad about it having
your side too as well, you know.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
And then that's where the pendulum is swinging one.

Speaker 4 (44:07):
Right, it seems like depends when it's swinging more to
the right now because.

Speaker 6 (44:10):
Of a've been people who are just I don't there's
a there's a there's a demonization of the left.

Speaker 4 (44:15):
I don't you know one and one day I'll do this.

Speaker 6 (44:17):
I plan to do this, like sometimes this year the
future of the Democratic Party, of the future of the
of the left, and what what is the direction to
go in here? Because I think the left, I think
this is a preconceived notion that if you're a lefty,
that you are basically some progressive like Antifa loving, you know, person.

(44:38):
And I think the Democrats have done a horrible job
in framing what this party really is. And they just
go in the wind blows and they do nothing, and
then they lose people in the party and you can't
get back to policy and policy that matters. And and
you know, because I feel like now that you know
me being raised and I'm a straples for you, because

(44:59):
it's actually a force your gaps and you and I and.

Speaker 2 (45:02):
The specific ocean right.

Speaker 4 (45:07):
Pacific ocean plus an entire country coming Florida stough.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
No, but.

Speaker 4 (45:18):
After the ragging years, if you're a Republican, you were mocked,
but for a good way I.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Had had George George Bush is mocked as well.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
Yeah, because you know Bush won the election. He he
don't want he lost. Papola felt the first time and
the second time, you want it barely okay as it was.

Speaker 6 (45:35):
But the Republicans have never had, had, never had the
wind sails this in this way in two generations. And
now all of a sudden you're seeing a you want
to call conservative movement, so be it like people on
the right now, you know, people are moving more to
the right now. I've noticed even people friends of mine
who have been you know, lifelong Democratic voters and then

(45:57):
they make us concerns independent they have now move moved
riot ding well for Trump, they.

Speaker 4 (46:02):
Voted for you know, our governor's stances here in the
last couple of years. And you're seeing the shift. Man,
It's been a massive shift.

Speaker 6 (46:07):
And I think a lot of this because the Democrats
have done a bad job at framing their arguments and
then do and also doing things and I've been critic
about this for years now, doing things in a party
that are anti Democratic want to be my bad is this?
You know, Bernie Sanders should have been the nominee for
the party twenty Yes, he got screwed in twenty sixteen
acknowledged that and in fact the people.

Speaker 4 (46:28):
In the party have you have even admitted.

Speaker 2 (46:31):
They had to basically yes.

Speaker 4 (46:33):
Right right, and people are just tired.

Speaker 6 (46:36):
You can't sider and say well democracy democracy, yeah, and
then you do the anti democratic thing in your own party.

Speaker 4 (46:43):
It's it's hypocritical.

Speaker 2 (46:45):
So let me ask you this couple of things ahead
before we jump off to Kimmelton. Yeah, I'm gonna say
something to you, and you can agree with but disagree
with it, right, go ahead. I think if and when,
once again this comes down to a on ability. If
the online reaction and I'm not talking about like ten
people doing this or one hundred people doing that, there

(47:07):
were tens of thousands of these videos and reactions and
comments to Kirk being assassinated in a hysterical and mocking way.
I really believe this in my heart. If that didn't
happen online, I don't think you would have had a
the Jimmy Kimmel being suspended. I don't think so. I

(47:30):
think what that happened was that there was already a
very volatile situation became even more sensitive of a situation. Right,
because they threw. When I say they, I'm talking about
the people that were mocking and laughing and celebrating his
murder that actually led to everyone at a volatile situation

(47:55):
becoming a very sensitive situation. Whereas because this is not
the first time Kimmel's been critical of MAGA or Trump
or conservatives at all, it's not he said probably worse
things about the COVID vaccination now, so which you will
about that. I thought that was apparent to when he
was saying, like, hey, if you don't get I'm pretty

(48:17):
sure it was kimll Is saying that a lot of
late night talk hosts was saying that if you don't
get it, then you you know, you don't deserve to
be treated in hospitals like that, to me is much
more incindiary and reckless than what he actually said in
regards to Charlie Kirk. But I think what he's paying

(48:38):
the price for what And he's not the only one
that was fired too. There's been other people that have
been fired for what they're posted online. But I think
now that's that's a situation. So that's that's what I
think happened with Kimmel, right, But it's a dangerous precedent,
now what you're saying. I do agree. I think being

(49:03):
on the left with a lot of ways we've been
betrayed by our own party and our own media, our
own stations, our own personality, our own leadership. Because I'll
tell you right now, dude, you will not find a
more patriotic American than me. I had to earn my
way into the United States. I love this place. And
I came from a great country too, and okay, like

(49:25):
a great city. I came from Sydney, Australia, where I've
got to surf every day, and I've got to, you know,
go to the beach every day, I've got to play rugby.
And those trucks it's very rare that they would come
up to the because we would we would have shore
breaks like the majority of our beach and the shore
breaks on Sydney, so you don't have to go one
hundred yards out to search.

Speaker 4 (49:47):
That makes sense.

Speaker 2 (49:48):
So I mean you would still get the occasional shark attack,
but that was mainly like deep sea divers that would
get bit of my sharks. And at that point you're
fair game, Like you're going out there and you're looking
like a seal and you're in and a shark doesn't
know any better, Like, hey, you know what you're the
risks are at that point if you're going to take
that risk, I don't find out.

Speaker 4 (50:10):
They call that fucking rather find out now.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Now. I don't want you to be attacked. I don't
want I'm not going to celebrate it. But at the
same time I don't want, like, like, that is a
totally unnecessary risky you're taking doing that in the domain,
and shark does not have the ability to distinguish between
somebody in a wedding or a wetsuit sorry, and and
a seal. And nine times out of ten it will

(50:33):
take one bite out of it because it tastes disgusting.
And then I just swim away and it was like,
what is this? So anyway, the point that I'm making
is I had to earn my way into the United States,
and when I did, I went through hell when I
was over here, and I went through COVID. I lived
through COVID, I went through you know, going through immigration

(50:53):
with Trump right, and thankfully I was able to become
a citizen last year. I became a citizen on the
twenty fifth yeah. That and and as one of the
proudest moments of my life, it will only be overtaken
when I married my partner ironically not ironically, we did
this on purpose, will be also one of turber this.

Speaker 4 (51:12):
One, Yeah exactly. I was gonna say, that's the same
days the wedding in it.

Speaker 2 (51:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's by design. Yeah, I forget
and and I am as patriochy as they come. But
I'm also left leaning right like I can be both.

Speaker 6 (51:28):
But that's a zaid though, you you it's very possible
be that way. I like, And it's something I said
to the election to last year. I was like, if
I'm a Democrat, I lean in heaving into the patriotic thing.
You lean him to that to the flag, you know,
you know, because because then because then because then the
right the Republican party that can't get the clean bad
because now we well yeah yeah yeah, because people people

(51:50):
people would people would assume that if you are a patriot,
like out of the country, you will see a flag
on you on your bio.

Speaker 4 (51:56):
Do you assume, I mean leader fucking right wing And
that's not the case.

Speaker 2 (52:02):
And into that I hate that that that that the
flag is essentially being hijacked by that right. That disturbs me.
It really does, because I love this country and I
don't care about what Republicans think of me or anything
like that. I like, I don't. I'm not I'm not
leaning into and I'm not saying you're saying this. I
just want to be clear about it, right, I'm not

(52:23):
leaning into being into loving America. As I said, I
chose America. I wasn't born until I chose American. So
you can't get much more patriotic than that.

Speaker 4 (52:31):
And I had the fight to get into this, especially
living in a good country that you do.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Like yeah, and and and and Australia was you know
a lot of people love Australia more than they love
like a lot of Americans love austraight more than the
love of American. That's that's an indication of just how
good of a place Australia is too. But where I'm
going with this, I am not leaning into my patriotism

(52:56):
to silence Republicans. I couldn't care. Let like, I don't
like as I said, I know you're not saying that,
but I don't want anyone interpreting that is my way
of differing like that. It doesn't mean that much to me.
They don't live in my head to the point where
I have to faith being a patriot, and a lot
of Democrats feel that same way. We just want so
I've talked about the spectrum before, right, and this is

(53:19):
not groundbreaking, but just this is where I think we've
been let down as people on the left, right, and
then to a lesser extent, people on the right too.
You have a spectrum Magaret at one hundred, Antifa at zero,
and in the middle you've got moderates right, and you'll
get like a ten to fifteen percent on either side,

(53:40):
so thirty five to sixty five right, right, right, So
but in that fifteen percent, let's just focus on Democrats
here and left and progressives. You've got probably about eighty percent,
maybe a little bit less, maybe seventy percent of your
thirty five of your voting constituents are the thirty vi

(54:00):
to fifty per on that spectrum. But you're left now.
But you're everybody is focused. And when I say everybody,
I'm not just talking about conservative meeting, I'm talking about
our own right. I'm talking about well, you know, I
didn't vote for Kamala Harris because she did this or whatever,
and then like, okay, who did you vote for? Well,
no one, Okay, great, You're part of the reason that

(54:23):
Trump's back in because you didn't even vote congratulations. You
know that, that to me is crazy, right you like,
if you if you you may dislike somebody I don't
know ten percent, but you dislike the other person ninety percent,
why do you want to help that person that's at
ten percent? You know, Like, I don't know that's I

(54:43):
can't understand that to the life of me. Where I'm
going with is as somebody that is on the left
who is relatively moderate. I look at it like, well,
I'm not being painted it. It's the same brush as
the people that are that are titha or woke or whatever.
And I don't agree with everything they have to say either,

(55:03):
and we should be if we can't, hint, like, if
we on the left, I'll say this, I don't want
to get on a massive political right, but.

Speaker 4 (55:10):
No, it's okay.

Speaker 2 (55:12):
If we on the left can't handle accountability and standards
from our own, then how are we ever going to
win the hearts and minds of the fifty to sixty
five percent that are also on that spectrum that are
slightly leaning right, they're gonna think we're all nuts and

(55:32):
they're gonna will never win another election again because they
think that, like if you're left leaning of them, that
they were all burned the city down, laugh hysterically when
somebody gets assassinated in front of their children. They think
that we're all that heartless. But at the same time,
we can't handle Sydney Swingey saying she has good jeans, like,

(55:53):
make that makes sense. I can't make sense.

Speaker 4 (55:56):
I also think a lot of you also is just people.

Speaker 2 (55:58):
You know.

Speaker 6 (56:00):
I still have to believe that most of the reaction
on the right and the left, where it's like the
right people saying that liberals should be eradicated and then
the left saying that who cares about Krook's death and
and that I'm happy he died.

Speaker 4 (56:12):
I have to believe Bill. And maybe this is me,
me naive and me and the fantasy world, because God,
I mean good God.

Speaker 6 (56:17):
I know I have that in my life. My wife
has tells me that I live in a fancy world.
Sometimes I'm over optimist than the pessimist. It's a small minority.
I have to believe it's still small, honorary. I have
to believe that most of this country. People in this
country are good citizens that have certain preferences and whatnot,
but they just want to don't want the country protected.
They want they want to be able to pay the
bills and be able to have a safe and healthy life.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I agree with that. I truly do agree with that,
because otherwise, if it was a bigger percentage, now it
doesn't make our kind of whole mind side accountable.

Speaker 4 (56:51):
Right of course, in fact you should.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, but the if if it was even if it
was like keeping one this what three hundred and fifty
million people, three hundred thirty million, well, I don't know
what the current number.

Speaker 4 (57:03):
Is, and growing and growing.

Speaker 2 (57:05):
Yeah, thank god, I've already passed a CIVIX test because
you remember people. But the let's go with three hundred
and thirty million, right, even if it was ten percent,
five percent on each side, ten percent of that total
population were pure anarchists, pure like, hey, let's kill all
the people on the left, and hey let's kill all

(57:26):
the people on the right. Then we're talking about thirty
million people, fifteen million on each side. That is a
very significant amount of people, and there would be total
chaos and the whole thing just completely collapses. You saw
what happened on January the sixth, right, and that was
what five thousand people into what should have been one

(57:46):
of the most secure buildings. Imagine if we're talking fifteen
million people going at each other control that. So, yes,
you are right, it is when you're looking at it
from a relative standpoint, it is still a small percentage,
very very small percentage. I don't want to see it
growing though. I want it going back the other way,
because I don't want one hundred thousand people celebrating somebody's death.

(58:09):
I want one hundred thousand people.

Speaker 6 (58:11):
I will I will say though, like like, like you
spoke on the show, on the show earlier that you
know kids, people have less kids.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
Maybe that that I mean, that is happening.

Speaker 6 (58:18):
By the way, according to the census as of July
this year, July first this year, that the population was
three hundred forty two million, thirty four thousand, four.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
Hundred three two people. Well, and but of course it'd
be four hundred thirty three If you two have a
kid next year or two.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
We get it will be three hundred and forty million.
Forty two million, five hundred thousand and one.

Speaker 4 (58:45):
One and one more plus one.

Speaker 2 (58:55):
I will say one thing though, I'll say one one more,
one more thing, and then maybe we can talk about
football stuff. Right? Is this is not me or it's
definitely not you saying like, hey, we're holier than they'll
act like us, be like us. This is out of

(59:15):
concern because you mentioned this with Kimmel, right, what happens
when a conservative does this? Next time? They're going to
get fired. They will get fired. Do they not realize
that's what happens? But conversely, what if somebody goes and
you know, takes out one of one of the leaders
of the left, right, and is that now the standard?

(59:39):
Like you can't control that level of horrific like violence, right,
these can't in this country. This is impossible. But our
reactions if somebody does take out somebody on the left,
would the reactions of the right now just be justified

(59:59):
to laugh, to not to celebrate, to cheer, And then
how well composed are wing on the left going to
be when we see that true? And and that's that's
where the accountability is. Is that old golden rule? Right?
And whether you're religious or not it still applies, you

(01:00:20):
know you if you don't want that being done to you,
then don't do it to others. And at both sides
are at fault with this, right, not just in the
Charlie Kirk thing. Clearly it's you know, one side that's
more more at fault than the other, clearly, right. But
we've got enough historical data in the last twenty years,
the last fifteen years to say, like both sides aren't

(01:00:42):
faultless in this. Yeah, But I just I just don't
want hate growing and I don't And I'm not saying
because someone has a different opinion. I'm saying some people
getting politically assassinated qualifiers as hate and then celebrating that
is that's a bad reflection on you as a person

(01:01:03):
if you're doing that. But I just don't want you know,
people too. I don't want that that zero point zero
zero one percent to become zero point zero zero two
percent in the next six years. I wanted to become harved.
I wanted to become you know, one tempt. I wanted
to I want us to be better, that's all I want.

(01:01:23):
I just want us to be better, and I want
to So anyway, America with I love that place, and
I really do. And and it's it's not perfect. I
know that, and we are all I would like to
think we are all trying to make it a better
place in our hearts. But with that being said, we

(01:01:44):
have to hold ourselves accountable and the way we react
in certain situations. Right.

Speaker 6 (01:01:49):
So okay, so when we want to pivot now on
something else, and I'm when I ask you a question,
I'm scared to ask you. I'm ask that someone who's
defensive of this said company. I'm gonna I'm gonna ask, anyway,
do you usted to watch Ammy basketball?

Speaker 2 (01:02:02):
No? No, Look, the final, the final nail in that
coffin was the Luca trade. That that was That was
that was really at that point.

Speaker 4 (01:02:15):
Yeah, okay, what exactly what the trade that did? Bothered
you out of curiosity?

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
Screened at Nike man plenty of Nike, like they they
orchestrated that. And because you think about it this way,
you last season, the Mats are struggling a little bit,
Luca was hurt. Right, you traded the guy that just
took you to the NBA finals, and he did it
and this city loves him. He loved Dallas, right, Dallas

(01:02:42):
is not a small market, bro, Dallas is a huge market.

Speaker 4 (01:02:46):
Question.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
It's the fourth biggest metro in the United States, behind
only La New York Chicago. That's how big it is.
It's overtaking Houston as a metro. As an individual city, yeah,
it's pretty small, but you've got fort Work, you've got Arlington,
you've got Planner, You've got lots of places that build
that up. So you and and there is disdain and

(01:03:10):
content contempt, excuse me not content for the Cowboys. Cowboys
still sell out, but it's usually people visiting Dallas that
are from Denver, or they're from Kansas City, or they're
from wherever, the Atlanta and they make it as a
trip to come visit Dallas and they go to a
Cowboys game. Cowboys Stadium is not like, it's not Arrowhead,

(01:03:35):
it's not like where people you're in a vast minority
if you're going there as an away fan. So people
of Dallas have sort of given up on Jerry Jones
and the Cowboys. It's been too long. Probably, I'm probably
it's probably the same of Chicago with the Bulls, right
and especially with some of the horrifically self inflicted wounds
for the Cowboys. So the Mavericks in a lot of ways,

(01:03:57):
even though the Rangers won the World Series, Mavericks became
a source of pride and joy for the for the
city and the metro, especially after Dirk and those beloved teams.
And to trade Luca who didn't request, to trade for
a beat up Anthony Davis who got injured in his

(01:04:18):
first freaking game.

Speaker 4 (01:04:20):
Recording of course, yeah, I know, right, And to trade.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Him a healthy Anthony Davis is a top ten player.
He's not a top two player in the league. There's
night and day between a top two player and a
top ten player in the league. And Lucas showed that
this could be effective. He got him to the finals
very emphatically. Getting into the finals, he knocked off Oklahoma
City basically by himself, who by the way, ended up

(01:04:47):
going on and winning the championship for the very next season, right,
so they were a legitimate team. And then he knocked
off the Anthony Edwards led Minnesota Timberwolves in very emphatic,
in a very emphatic way, very a sweep, right, and
then he ran into Boston, right, Yeah, but getting so

(01:05:07):
it's not like this team was struggling It wasn't like
Michael Parson's getting traded where this team's going nowhere? They
just made the finals, get him, get him another piece
or two, and then to go to the Lakers again.
Of course it had to be the Lakers again. How
many times are going to see that Shack Goes and
Kobe Kareem Goz Magic found his way there? You know,
Lebron found his way there. You know how many times

(01:05:30):
are we going to see it before we say, okay,
this is a little bit suspicious. Guys think Davis found
his way there? Right?

Speaker 6 (01:05:35):
Can I Can I make an argument here that was
advocate here? Because because look, I've always said that even
if there is no no like you know, collusion and
you know NBA being involved in this, you can tell
me that all you want, but the optics look bad.

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
But can I argue that Dallas also as.

Speaker 6 (01:05:58):
A franchise, just didn't want to pay a guy who
doesn't take care of his body, who's up for a
new contract. You know, you got to dedicate three hundred
plus million dollars to keep the said guy on that roster,
and who knows that his body breaks down? Is it
was it justified in a sense to still do this,
giving those optics, given those things you're facing as he

(01:06:20):
gets older, Like if he's nothing care of his body,
then you got an issue there. You're paying a guy
three hundrellion dollars saying seventy million dollars a year, you're
not taking care of himself, and then the product will
his the asset will actually get worse quicker than you realize.

Speaker 4 (01:06:33):
Was that justifying in my opinion?

Speaker 2 (01:06:37):
I hear what you're saying, right, But if that's the case,
why not shop him around? Man?

Speaker 4 (01:06:41):
Why that's the part. That's the correct answer, that's the
correct answer. It wasn't the trade.

Speaker 6 (01:06:46):
I've always I said on the show since memory. It
was never the trade that bothered me. It was you
didn't even try to get more back.

Speaker 4 (01:06:53):
There's no role.

Speaker 6 (01:06:53):
You tell me that Michel Bridges get can get more
back in assets than fucking luka Doncis that is stupid?

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Right? Think about Think about what like King's Ransom Denver
would have paid to get him alongside Joe Oh my god, yes,
like like think they would have given up draft picks
for the next twenty years, and they really would have
Right and or any other franchise in the NBA would

(01:07:20):
have given up more than what we actually got, and
we got one fucking pick. Sorry language, but okay, let
me say here, we got one fucking draft pick for
that out of all of that, Luca, are you shitting me?
One pick? No, like like that. That is unbelievable that
that was. And I don't know, it's just crazy to

(01:07:45):
me that in the middle of the night, no one,
no one in Dallas Ford any rumblings of betrayed that
was going to happen. We thought it was, and it
happened in the middle of the night.

Speaker 6 (01:07:54):
Literally let it happened. It happened at literally at midnight eleven.
I'll tell well, I don't know what you were doing.
But I was still awake, you know, I wasn't. I
was awake, still in my bed though, and I was like,
you know, scrolling. You know what, what do the kids
call it? Doom scrolling? I was dune scrolling on my
phone and all asod I got a Leacher Report updates

(01:08:17):
saying Luca traded to the to the Lakers.

Speaker 4 (01:08:20):
I'm like, huh, how does that make sense. I'm like,
n that's this has gotta be some kind of joke.

Speaker 6 (01:08:27):
So my my reaction, ain't I always do anything with
any transaction, I make sure I double check the trouble
check before I lie into it. So I went, you know,
go to my the sources I always depend on. That's
much boges anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:08:40):
He's gone.

Speaker 6 (01:08:41):
But like you know, shame Shamsherania and then obviously the
other guys that I trust, Mark Stein, and they're all
concurring this. I'm like, oh, this is real, and so
I text everybody and then of course the next morning,
everybody's getting to wind the whole thing.

Speaker 4 (01:08:54):
Everybody's reacting to it.

Speaker 6 (01:08:55):
I did a podcast literally this I think this the
during next morning with my dad and my brother talk.

Speaker 4 (01:08:59):
About it, and you know, it's one of those things
were like, holy shit, this is this is crazy, this
is crazy. And look, you could have saw me on
that tray being fair. If this is Ambie Davis five
years ago, oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Andthony Davis was a stud five years ago.

Speaker 4 (01:09:16):
He's still a great player. He just cant say healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:09:19):
Well that's kind of a big thing. And and also
if like you can't have it both ways, where I an, look,
if you're building for the future or you're not. And
he's older than what Luker is as well, Like how
old is Anthony Davis? Like thirty four?

Speaker 4 (01:09:39):
He's no, no's you he's that's like thirty one, three, two.

Speaker 2 (01:09:42):
Okay, So he's mine shit all right, but he's okay.
But he's older than what Luker is by a significant margin.
So maybe you build for the if you're trying to
get for the future, Like right now, Luker is more
and more important to a.

Speaker 4 (01:09:57):
Team the more, okay, So what is Luca?

Speaker 2 (01:10:02):
How is lu looks okay? Okay, So there's a five
six year difference there, so you're losing out like it's
not the other way around right where you're getting a
younger player, you can't stay healthy. Maybe he gets a
little bit healthy. But then of course the cherry on
the Sunday with this is magically the Maveri's got the

(01:10:22):
number one pick one and a half percent chance. Come on,
that's like this sounds like a fairy tale broer with
you on that.

Speaker 4 (01:10:32):
Brother. I love the NBA, I depend on me all
the time. But when you're fucking up, I mean doing
things are weird, I'm I'm gonna call you on it.

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
That's them right. It sounds like it's scripted it sounds
like it's you know, made up, and we're just And
that's why so many people think the NBA is ruged
and they and to a lesser extent, they think football
is read too, but they think the NBA has riped
this kind of stuff, which is just you can't give

(01:11:00):
it the like professional wrestling is more believable than this. Yeah,
really is the Caine and undertake a storyline from way
back when is more believable than this? Yeah? Oh yeah yeah,
Paul Bear, Yeah yeah, he slept with undertaking his mother,
right and gone on. Yeah, but that's gonna be Kine, right,

(01:11:27):
And it's like that that is more believable than this kid.
It's insane, it's it's it's it's sad. So to answer
your question, no, I don't watch the NBA anymore. I
can't bring myself to watch that anymore, can you?

Speaker 4 (01:11:46):
Okay?

Speaker 6 (01:11:47):
Okay, So but clearly you you're already on the way
out before this, like the product is obviously. So it's
crazy because like the thing that I was critical about
for years has been kind of fixed now, like lack
of parody. We have parody back in the NBA. Now
we have we have parody which is great. We have
had this since fucking the seventies. But I think that

(01:12:08):
the aesthetics, I think the biggest problem. Even people who
love the league like myself, have also had to knowledge
that the aesthetics or problem. Like I like, I like,
like like Matt, I love three point shooting, but I
don't need to see I don't need to see sixty
fucking shots the game.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:27):
It's yeah, you're right, So, yeah, you're you're right on
a few things. You're right on the three point shooting,
and you're also right that I was on my way out.
But you know, I love Dallas, right, I love this
city like I love the Stars, right, I love the Rangers.
I am a Cowboys fan. You're probably gonna hate me
for that, but you know, you've still won two rings

(01:12:52):
in the last twenty five years, so I mean you
kind of correct. Yeah, And.

Speaker 6 (01:12:59):
You know, you know my dog, you know my job, right,
what is it I jog all the time that we're
paying we're paying the price.

Speaker 4 (01:13:06):
For Seaton.

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
But you know what's interesting, if if Eli wasn't around,
Brady has nine rings. That's awfully close to Bill. Like
like that, that's close to Bill Russell's freaking like, that's crazy,
man to have nine rings like that, because they were
in the Super Bowl and it was if it wasn't
that la and him performing as well as he did, right,

(01:13:37):
which wasn't great by the way, but it was good enough.
It was the defenses that won those games for him,
but still good enough if he if he played like
Peyden Manning had played in a lot of big games
throughout his career. Brady has nine rings, man, because it
was at the Super Bowl when he lost them. Now,
who just is to know what actually happens like in
terms of player movement and everything after those those championships.

(01:14:00):
But maybe he sticks around and maybe he goes after
Bill Russell's eleven rings. Who knows, but the NBA, right,
The reason why I really checked out was load management,
which was an almighty go to hells with the fans
that pay their money to go see the games and
the lack of genuine caring about whether you win and lose.

(01:14:25):
It's all about brand management. Forget load management. This is
brand management. This is all branding, Paul George and all
that and they you know, I when I first moved
to Dallas, I went to a playoff game. It was
against the Clippers. It was that crazy series that the
home game that no one won a home game until

(01:14:45):
game seven. Yeah, and I was at the game. It
was Game six is where Kawhi Leonard probably missed two
shots the whole game and scored forty five points. And
of course Paul George didn't show up, But I got
there early. I didn't know anyone else in Dallas. This
is literally like one or two weeks after moving him
and I went there and I was just watching the shooter,

(01:15:06):
like them doing the warm ups and Paul George. This
gives you an idea of where their minds are at right.
Paul George, who at the time is probably a top
fifteen two way or probably a top ten two way
player in the league, top fifteen overall player in the league.
He is the two examples. Paul George is shooting about

(01:15:29):
eight or nine three quarter shorts, three quarter quarter shorts,
and he's got his own team recording him doing that
for like snapchat. Oh my god, damn it, like what
are you doing. He finally makes one, he does his
massive celebration and he makes up that he just took
one in front. It's like Okay. The other thing was

(01:15:49):
his zingers. He was still a Magreick. And this guy
seven foot four, simple foot three, whatever he is, he
comes out and he practices about ten three froze and
shoots about forty threes and then that's his warm up. Like, dude,

(01:16:10):
are you kidding?

Speaker 8 (01:16:11):
You know, you get like like there's no even attempt
to work on a mid range game, or like if
that guy developed the Dirk shot, no one's blocking that, you.

Speaker 11 (01:16:19):
Know, the fade away.

Speaker 2 (01:16:21):
It's like if there's no post game, there's nothing. I'm
just boring now. Once again, just like politics, I have
the prefaces. I love basketball. I love college basketball because
there's some variety to it. It's close, it's intense, that matters.
I just can't stand the NBA.

Speaker 6 (01:16:37):
And yet you could could you see someth coming back
to watching the game if they make those pivots. I think, Look,
it's a lot of things that Adam Silver we can
be criticize, but he is trying to do things because
to me, I think a lot of problems also a
cultural too as well, Like you know, you know people
people care, have to care, people care about then because
back then it was looked down upon if he didn't

(01:16:59):
give a shit.

Speaker 4 (01:16:59):
And you know, these players are now being rewarded for
just being talented, which is a problem.

Speaker 6 (01:17:06):
I'm a capitalist, but I keep saying, if you, if
you guys keep doing this little mention ship and all
this stuff and and showing that you don't give a ship,
the fans are gonna stop stop coming to games.

Speaker 4 (01:17:17):
And I always tell people when it comes to wrestling.
But because there's a lot of things that.

Speaker 6 (01:17:20):
WB is doing these days that are very you know,
I'm looking you look side eye about, you know, with
with the you know, rests to go to South Arabia
and all those things. The things are do now that
as a society, as a capitalist, as a consumer, you
can respond with using your dollars. And I really believe
that the next CBA they do and thinks about five years,
there's gould be some consequences if this thing continues. But again,

(01:17:43):
it only works if people stop going to games and
stop buying merch and stop giving a ship.

Speaker 4 (01:17:47):
And these players are.

Speaker 6 (01:17:48):
Gonna They're not gonna change until they have to change,
you know, And that's the bottom line. It's a shame
that you know, we get to the place now where
you know, you're you're someone who was passed about any basketball,
but you've also seen product got a ship.

Speaker 4 (01:18:01):
I don't know whose fault it is. I mean, I
think it's one person.

Speaker 2 (01:18:04):
I think sorry, sorry, sorry, a bit of an is
the sole reason?

Speaker 4 (01:18:11):
Why doesn't the main reason.

Speaker 2 (01:18:12):
I think he's a catalyst for it. Yeah, I think I.

Speaker 4 (01:18:16):
Don't because I don't disagree with you for a record.

Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
I think he's a catalyst. I don't think he's the
sole reason everyone's accountable for what they do, but I
think he's He was the one that really, Yeah, he
was a catalyst for this because you think about the
way that the game was going. He went from Bill
Russell and Wilt Chamberlain to Kareem and Doctor j the
Magic and Bird, and then to Jordan and then Kobe, Right,

(01:18:42):
all those guys, every single one of them cared so
much about winning, right, every single one, even Wilt, who
only had two rings, right, he was a stats machine.
He cared about winning. It drove him nuts. He just
couldn't beat Bill Bill Russell. Bill Russell a team with
nine Hall of Famers on them, right, that's crazy to me.

(01:19:03):
That's not running into the Golden State Warriors, where you're
you know, they may have one more Hall of Famer
than what you are. Earn what you have if you're
in Cleveland. That's still a winnable objective, right, It was
still very much winnable to the point where they did win.
They won in twenty sixteen. Right.

Speaker 11 (01:19:19):
But where I'm taking this is what fell off, right,
and it's when Lebron was still he was.

Speaker 2 (01:19:31):
I don't like to buy into like nicknames or anything
like that, but he was so Forget that his nickname
is King James because we say that about Derek Henry
calling King Henry, right, right, But the fact that he
was treated as if he was on Kobe's level, or
on Jordan's level, or on Magic's level, or our generations

(01:19:51):
Jordan or Bird or Magic or Bill Russell or Kareem.
He was treated like he was the guy for this
generation when he hadn't dominated this generation and he hadn't
secured this generation. I think that's said a really, really,
really bad precedent. No, I agree, Yeah, So I don't
necessarily think it's Lebron's fault as a person. I think

(01:20:14):
it's the way the media and Nike promoted him in
the environment.

Speaker 6 (01:20:19):
And again it's a cultural environment. And you know, I
can't necessarily blame Lebron wholeheartedly if the if the environment
is allowing this, allowing people to do this, you know,
we are all us our environment, you know what I mean.
It was different for Jordan back in the day and
for the magic and Burden and vice versa whatever. But yes,

(01:20:42):
Lebron is definitely a callous and all this, you know,
because we we we as a society also to the
environment as a consumer to we put a price on winning.
Like we look at rings the beond d doll, which
I disagree with, but it is I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:20:54):
Agree with you on that.

Speaker 6 (01:20:56):
Ad Wait why because rings are a pot of the
no no, no, When I said it wears no rings,
where's the argument. But that's not to be your end
off because if we're going to be rings, then Bill
rose of them one all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:21:08):
Yeah yeah, but I I truly when you talk about
so you have basketball is basketball fans has a civil
war happening right now. You have people that just watch
highlights and read stats, and people that actually care about
the game. Correct, people that care about the game. People
that just watch that just look at resumes and stats

(01:21:30):
and highlights. They can go argue on the corner by themselves, right,
because you're not going to be able to have a
rational discussion with them, or at least a connecting conversation
where you're going to learn something with a hardcore fan
and vice versa. It's they're two totally different people, right,
two totally different audiences. But I yet to see a

(01:21:51):
a respected basketball mind just say, hey, Jordan is only
the best. And now don't you dare say skip Bayless
because he's not a respected basketball mine. Jordan is only
the best because he went six from six. Jordan is
also the best because he was the best two way player.
He was the best it was the best scorer, he was,
he was the best leader.

Speaker 4 (01:22:12):
He was going to say that too.

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Yeah, he was all those things, and he held himself
to a standard. You know, in the nineties he lost
one time, actually I think he lost twice. He lost
the Pistons in nine and ninety and then he was.

Speaker 4 (01:22:26):
Right right, yeah, yeah, Orlando, yeah yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
The six for six. It actually validates him. So it
doesn't mean that it was just Lebron's reign of terror
in the Eastern Conference and then getting too because the
East was terrible at that point, and then getting to
the West and just getting viscerated in the finals, that
just at that point out like that's that dominance was
consistent across the board.

Speaker 6 (01:22:51):
I will say, I you know, you remember I used
to be a pretty big lebron like you know, advocate
back in the day when first start talking.

Speaker 4 (01:22:58):
That's that's changed.

Speaker 6 (01:22:59):
That's changed thy years because I said something, well something,
I still love the guy. I think it's still well intentioned.
I just think that the things he does it has
done thirty years that like I give him a side
eye like Okay, come on, stop, don't do that. Don't
say that. Now you're at your opinion. But I'm right
to my care react to set opinion, you know. And
there's some things I'm seeing that maybe I took a

(01:23:21):
blind eye because you know, he's in the I mean
he uniform, but once he lookt Miami and then once
you start seeing things like okay, that's not right though,
Like do I think he's top two three all time? Absolutely,
that's my opinion. I can defend Jordan being a grass
whole time without having to say six, no, you you
made aimat point of there, because I haven't saying for
years Jordan is a greatful time for me because because
he's six and oh that's nothing to do with it,

(01:23:41):
but whatsoever. Actually it weighs the argument, but it's not
the argument, you know. It's other things you mentioned, which
is absolutely correct. Better two way player, better a leader,
blah blah blah, you name all that. I agree with
field that so, but I mean, can't what what can
NBA do? I guess I'll ask you this to bring
you back app where you were, say even ten years ago.

Speaker 2 (01:24:03):
I don't know if they can like like the because
I think it's become too much of a league wide issue.
This isn't like oh we put. I think that the
NBA has made a decision that it's very difficult to
walk back from where they don't care about the true
hardcore fans anymore. They care about influences, They care about

(01:24:25):
what they like. They care about a premium product, like
in terms of what I say, a premium product, premium pricing,
price product. Right, And you can see that not just
from the tickets but also from you know, the new
deal where everything's on big caferend streaming.

Speaker 6 (01:24:40):
So can I argue real quick that that's what every
company is doing these days. He's doing the same damn thing.
Uh NFL to or lest reps that's starting to do
that same thing too, also, right, and that that's.

Speaker 2 (01:24:51):
Okay, right, that's a good point. That's that I will
accept it. But you'll find sports fans will just turn
away in droves from this. And the only thing keeping
sports alive is either fantasy sports or betting. Those are
the yeah, and to a lesser except fantasy as well, right,
which you could argue is betting too. Because no one's

(01:25:13):
doing free leagues anymore.

Speaker 4 (01:25:16):
I mean, I mean, I do a free league at
my job, and that's because they have camaraderie. I don't
really care. I don't like clasball already told you guys, right,
I don't like it. I don't, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:25:24):
Yeah, So so I don't think there's anything they can
do with it, because when when they start doing things
like to when when the fans are carrying more than
the players, which is kind of proven by the All
Star Game, it's kind of proven by the in season
tournaments things like that, when you have to have such

(01:25:45):
novelties to try to motivate the players to actually give
a ship, then it's going to take a lot for
me to actually come back to it. But usually when
I say a lot, it would just have to be
like probably one player that kicks every RAN's arson's Like no,
like Caitlin Clark in the w NBA, Like how long
was that league dormant for and then one player came

(01:26:06):
in and then all of a sudden it started getting attention.
Now the w NBA players could start getting out of
their own way and start like celebrating what the attention
is that she's bringing. That might help the league dramatically
in terms of their financial situation. But regardless, the NBA
will need that kind of a transcendent figure and they

(01:26:28):
you you can only pray for that. There's nothing that
Adam Silver can do in terms of bringing that around.
And yeah, as you know, even like I guess the
best example I can give you this is Jokis right,
Jok won the MVP, he looks bored, wins the NBA Finals,

(01:26:49):
he looks bored, he wins the bronze medal in the Olympics,
and you've never seen a happier guy in your life.
I think that's a reflection of the NBA as basketball,
as opposed to the Olympics.

Speaker 6 (01:27:01):
Or college right, all right, so real quick, give me
what's been in the year. But what's been the most
interesting thing in the NFL is war?

Speaker 2 (01:27:10):
Oh, in the NFL, there's abstainly two weeks into the season,
so that's a that's an interesting question. I'm as obviously
I love the Cowboys because I live in Dallas.

Speaker 4 (01:27:27):
I will hold that against you. It's okay, I have
hit the Eagles wars, so it's okay.

Speaker 2 (01:27:33):
Oh well, yeah, well it's Philly, right, the that rivalry
is a blood rivalry. But yeah, I'm loving what I'm
seeing in Indy. The Danny Dimes, maybe like out of nowhere,
just being the player that we never expected him to
even be when he was drafted in the first round,

(01:27:54):
right and kicked to the curb by New York. They've
got a funny way of doing that, right Saquon Barkley.
Now now Daniel Jones, I'm really fascinated by that story
because I want to see where they go now. Of course,
Green Bay they're looking great now, but they have a
lot of you know, positive energy because the micro Parson's there.

(01:28:17):
But let's see how they are in five or six weeks,
let's just hold off on them a little bit because
that energy might have a shelf life and that division
still has the Detroit Lions and they're not going away
anytime soon. Agree, And that's that's an interesting one. I
want to see. I just want to see a little

(01:28:38):
bit more out of them than two games. But yeah,
what about you, man, can you tell me about like
what are you seeing in the NFL? Right?

Speaker 6 (01:28:46):
I mean, like I said, like to me, you you you,
I always say you need a least four example before
you start really buying in some just some of the narratives,
Like some some things are obvious, like two weeks, like
the great teams that are great teams are gonna be
the great teams into the end. Okay, the Ravens, the Bills,
the Eagles, you know, all those teams are gonna be
who they are.

Speaker 4 (01:29:05):
What they are right now is gonna be who they
are by attangan of January. The bad teams are gonna
be who they are, the Saints, the Titans, you know,
you know some team teams of that ILK will be
who they are. They're bad. The middle twenty seven.

Speaker 6 (01:29:17):
There's stole stories being written right now, like the Indie
story's fun. Obviously as a Giants fan and Saint Dalan
Jones drive there, it's weird. I'm happy for the kid. Personally,
I gotta see more. I gotta see more. Letta see more.

Speaker 4 (01:29:31):
It's two weeks in because they're good.

Speaker 6 (01:29:32):
Because if they're two and two next two weeks and
two weeks from now, then obviously that whole thing I
went away and then you have other stories.

Speaker 4 (01:29:39):
That's uh, you know.

Speaker 6 (01:29:40):
I mean to me, it's it's standard for me. I'm
I'm the one thing I'm bought into more. Anything else
personally is the Ravens. Like to me, Lamar Jackson, I
need him to win a child this year. I need
him to win a championship. Okay, what do you think
holds him back?

Speaker 4 (01:30:00):
I like this, I mean to agree with me, but
I think John Horblom might be the problem.

Speaker 2 (01:30:07):
Yeah, because I see he's an incredible decision like like
his feet, like he's he's the best runner I've ever
seen at.

Speaker 6 (01:30:15):
That he is arguably the best player in all football. Arguably,
I think him. I think you have a question to him,
sack On Brooklyn, Josh Allen, you picked one.

Speaker 4 (01:30:21):
Of the three.

Speaker 2 (01:30:21):
Yeah, yeah, I agree with that. At least on the
offensive side of it. Defensively, you might have an argument,
but even then doesn't stay healthy, right, right, I hear
what you're saying, right in terms of the indie thing,
And I think part of why I say indie is
there's no emotional attachment. I can just sit back and
watch it and be excited for it and not be invested.

(01:30:44):
And that's the great thing about football too, and that's
why red zone has always been so popular, is we can,
for a fleeting moment, be really invested in a game,
like we're passionate fans of that team to the last
five ten years.

Speaker 4 (01:30:58):
You go ahead, well, this is exactly what the NBA lacks.

Speaker 6 (01:31:00):
And to be to be fair, it's it's different set
up because one league has eighty two games, that has seventeen.
So one game in the NFL is worth what six
or seven in the NBA. So I mean it's not
it's not a fair comparison. But what what I love
about the NFL football, even though I'm an NBA diehard.
The reason why NFL football is always king ship in
this country is because.

Speaker 4 (01:31:22):
Every game matters.

Speaker 6 (01:31:23):
From one number two the conversation, because a game matter
is the conversations are are are always you know, continue,
always continued. There's always new conversations a week to week,
like I enjoy as an NFL fan, which I love
watching the games.

Speaker 4 (01:31:37):
I actually love just as much watching the games. I
love talking about the stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:31:41):
Yes the week, like we're.

Speaker 6 (01:31:42):
Having countries about oh, so what can Indie do this week?
Is right, like we're at like game four in the
NBA season. I mean, I mean again, it's different. Hard
compare it like, okay, the Magic of seven and zero cool,
but about two weeks will be seven to seven now
what you know what I'm saying. So it's one of

(01:32:03):
those things where like the conversations are a little bit
different in the NFL versus the NBA. But having said that,
I compare took a puzzle. Like I always say, four
game sample is always the most healthiest way to evaluate
teams in the NFL. Give it four games to cook
and then we'll start seeing, Okay, this is true, Reels,

(01:32:23):
it's not real, and I like the puzzle being I
like the puzzle being figured out, you know, as you
go say season, Okay, well this team is real now
like Green Bay, like Green May has two The reason
why Packers. I think it's for real was because they
have two quality wins and one under belot number two.

Speaker 4 (01:32:38):
If Jordan Love, if this, if this is one we
can see in Geordan Love going forward, if this is
the real Love top ten quarterback League. Yes, now they're
a problem because even with Micah being there, they're not
going They're not going Love being.

Speaker 6 (01:32:51):
Great and he has been great so far, so that
that's the difference to two. But honestly, as anything shifted
in my direction, no, I'm s the waiting to see.
Give me two weeks, two more weeks and I can
start feeling. I better feel the year because all of
these teams will still have not in the in the
real skin right now, if you will, and we're.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
Sing glimpses from Jordan Jordan Love before. I mean, hell,
I was at that Cowboys game when the Packers are
misrated them. Jordan looked there. It was it was an
ice store on two out of him. It was a
freaking ice storm. It was. I don't question wind.

Speaker 4 (01:33:28):
Loyalty, right, I get it, I get it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:31):
But the I honestly thought that was going to be
mccafy's last game, and of course, in the infinite was,
and they brought him back one more season. Unbelievable. But
the the when it comes to Jordan Love though, we're
seeing these glimpses before these four or five sample games
where he's looked incredible and then he falls off for
four or five gas. The other part that has been

(01:33:52):
worried about him is the health of their wide receivers.
But their draft pick, what's his name, mattew Golden, he
played out of Texas. Yeah, dude, if they get him
going as well, because he's had some drops early on
this season, if he starts rolling and you still got
this guy named Josh Jacobs who two years ago had

(01:34:12):
like an unbelievable stretch when he's still playing for the Raiders.
Correct towards the end of the season, they have and
they've got that forgetting his the tight end. Tucker Craft
is really good that they have a lot there, and
they've got a really good coach too, The Hacket's a
great coach. So I but I'm looking at it like,

(01:34:34):
is this going to be a situation where they go
fifteen and one like the Lions last year, or sixteen
to one and then they just get punched in the
mouth by an upstart team, which ironically is what the
hackers did to the Cowboys, right, and you know at
the Lion's just got to sneak up on and it's
you know, the stars aligned for them. It's so early. Look,

(01:34:57):
the NFL is great, like King, and you nailed it. Man.
This is why you're the best guy in podcast because
nailed it. I never thought of it this way, but
the actual conversations about football made something. I mean, you
could be totally lunch e cool. And then the any
given Sunday comes in and just I mean.

Speaker 4 (01:35:16):
Look at this, look at this show, look at this,
this this podcast alone.

Speaker 6 (01:35:19):
Okay, So I don't know if you follow the show
and you the cut that put out the whole time,
but you know we do. Now, this year's been a
little rough because my buddy Kyle hasn't been able to
come on the show the first two weeks the year,
but it will be coming soon.

Speaker 4 (01:35:31):
Because the schedule. But we have at least two dedicated
NFL shows to this feed. Can we have the game Report,
my boy Kyle, we've been doing for about almost.

Speaker 6 (01:35:42):
Thirteen fourteen years now every Tuesday, and then my buddy Zach,
we have a gambling thing eacha US Degenerate.

Speaker 4 (01:35:49):
When we do we do the best best each game
every week.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
That's been gone forever, I remember the Degenerate.

Speaker 4 (01:35:54):
We're still doing it because we just did it record.

Speaker 6 (01:35:56):
We did record an episode two days ago, and so
we have two dedicated shows alone surrounding football football and.

Speaker 2 (01:36:04):
We've just spent thirty five minutes talking.

Speaker 4 (01:36:06):
About it on There we Go.

Speaker 6 (01:36:07):
So we have there's so much things to talk about,
the unpacked within that that sport that whether it was
the gambling aspect, of the fantasy aspect, or the just
a regular.

Speaker 4 (01:36:16):
In the NFL talk.

Speaker 6 (01:36:17):
And then around that too, I'll bring in guests to
talk about football in general or on my sole episodes
i'll talk.

Speaker 4 (01:36:22):
I'll discuss things that relate to the league. So there's
so much done unpack in the NFL.

Speaker 2 (01:36:27):
And that's why you didn't even talk about the history,
the beautiful history that is.

Speaker 6 (01:36:32):
Yeah, and and and I have discussed probably doing a
retro episode shows on the feed. I have one for basketball,
certainly for wrestling of course, because I'm a very pastful
wrestling and the retro wrestling stuff. But uh, you know,
I have discussed probably doing an NFL football one football
perspective part. I definitely will get you on those I

(01:36:52):
actually want you on the I actually want you on
the BASKETBLL Metro show.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
We will talk about that. Yeah, I have episodes happened.

Speaker 4 (01:37:00):
I a episode I mapped out for that, so trust
you own the horn for that one.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
Okay.

Speaker 6 (01:37:04):
Wrestling, Yeah, I was aware you were a big fan
years ago, but we never talked about it because at
the time I was in the middle of my seventeen
year hiatus. So I don't know if you're aware of
my history with wrestling. So I was a diehard fan
from eight seven on Wrestleman of three is will change
my life?

Speaker 4 (01:37:23):
Okay I was.

Speaker 6 (01:37:24):
I am a whole comania, die hard eighty anything, anything
to eighty five to nineten, ninety two, teny three is
my my sweet spot. Okay, say anything, Hogan, Savage Warrior,
you name it, that's my sweet spot. So I've been
watching off and non through those years up until two
thousand and two. After the rest wanting eighteen Hogan Rock,
I stopped watching the current product. Now, I was the

(01:37:46):
olden for years, but there was there was a seven
year agame in two twenty nineteen. I did not want
to be current product until twenty nineteen, and since twent nineteen.
I've been watching regularly since then. So that's why we
never discussed wrestling on the show, because you you're watching it,
I'm sure back then, but I wasn't watching products and that,
so I wasn't pretty about who Seth Rollins was at

(01:38:08):
the time or who roll.

Speaker 4 (01:38:09):
Rings at the time when he first debut with the Shield.

Speaker 6 (01:38:12):
Now, obviously now in hindsight, I can discuss it now
because I've watched that since then.

Speaker 4 (01:38:18):
What I wasn't aware of was that you were still
watching the product today.

Speaker 2 (01:38:22):
Well yeah, okay, let me let me clarify this. So
I took an interest in wrestling because of Eric Bischof's right,
I listened. I was made aware of him because he
beat in Spaghanna. Now everyone knows, right, even if you
know a wrestling fan, of course, and to me, wrestling

(01:38:42):
always I was always curious about wrestling because how did
they make that? Of all things? Like you talk about
things being ridiculous, right, that is a ridiculous concept. Okay,
we're gonna have this predetermined fire conflict where people it's
clear that it's not real because it's like it's not
a real conflict. They're not actually punching people in the

(01:39:04):
face now, just things happen. Do things happen and people
get absolutely their bodies get annihilated. Yeah sure, but it's
not a UFC flight, it's not boxing point, right, How
did they make that into the spectacle that it is?

Speaker 4 (01:39:18):
Now?

Speaker 2 (01:39:18):
That's marketing genius at one o one? But how did
someone beat vincemin Man? So I listened to his podcasts
and that got me really fascinated. And some of that's
actually applied to every week, right, yeah, yeah with Thompson
I think, yeah yeah, and all the comrades, the host
of it, right, And I just found it really interesting

(01:39:40):
to get the insights not from a wrestling standpoint, but
from a leadership and a marketing and an advertising standpoint,
how to handle executives and how to do all that, like, like,
it's really interesting stuff. And I've grown to appreciate professional
wrestling right now. Do I watch it? No, I don't

(01:40:01):
watch it on Monday night, so I don't watch it
on Friday nights. But I'll tell you where I do
watch it. It comes up with my YouTube stuff and
I'll watch the highlights on that.

Speaker 6 (01:40:08):
And that's so funny, except that because what got me
back into it, honestly was the same sact thing you
just said. So the highlights, that's what's the highlights, but
the podcast and the business. So there was a big
surge in the mid in the mid adds around twenty thirteen,
twenty fourteen, fifteen, sixteen seventeen, especially Conrad Thompson when he

(01:40:30):
was starting to do podcasts with like the podcast that
really got me, that's the one, that's the one something
to wrestle. He was a character, he was he the
mone he worked at Vince yeh the scenes, he was
one of the guys in Gorilla. But he also was
a character back in the day. So twenty seventeens where
I really started started to really started geting to get

(01:40:53):
the urge to start watching it again. To me two years,
but I got the urge watching again. And the reason
why was because those podcasts people cover like a storyline
or a specific star or whatever it maybe. And you
would do a deep dive with Conrad, and I was
so intrigued, as you just said, intrigued by the business
aspect of it.

Speaker 4 (01:41:14):
What made him go with this direction?

Speaker 6 (01:41:15):
What was the reaction to this storyline, how did he
react to this and there and all those things and
what brought me back honestly, and that's why I came back.
And then I started they would start filtering a little
bit of like some of the guys are.

Speaker 4 (01:41:31):
They're involved AJ styles and you know some of the
guys and you mentioned that, and I'm like, oh, well whatever,
but then you keep hearing about it.

Speaker 6 (01:41:40):
I watched wrestling, now what a different eyeball. I look, look,
I watched wrestling from me from not this from me
as a fan, but as a business.

Speaker 2 (01:41:46):
Now reacting to this, right, like how are they get
a pivot direction?

Speaker 6 (01:41:53):
Back in the day, I watched even as an adult,
I watched it with ins and eye. I watched you know,
if the rock's this, that's Y and Z. Well, okay,
that's the rock, that's question the guys the bad guy.

Speaker 4 (01:42:06):
Yeah right, I never questioned it.

Speaker 6 (01:42:08):
And it's watching it for what they presented as you
as really you should, because that's the way you should
watch any for entertainment. But now I watch it as
as a business, which I as you just said, also
it was just which is absolutely correct. You learn to
appreciate it. It's not fake, it's scripted, right, difference you know,

(01:42:29):
it's other than it's everything else is it's pretty much
a risk.

Speaker 2 (01:42:33):
So and and I think I think a lot of
people call it fake because it was being presented for
so long as being legitimate. So of course that's going
to be the counter to it because it's not. It's
not legitimate, so legitimate sport, right, right. But I don't
think so much it's the argument anymore that it's pre determined,
because you know, you know that that it's fake, it's

(01:42:54):
that it's pre determined. But I don't even think they're
leaning into that it's not predetermined, like it's like like
I think they're they've done a very smart job of
finding that sweet spot between fans like typically younger fans
that buy it hook Climb and Sinker and the fans
that grew up with it. But also you know, they
know that they know the dirt sheets, they know the rumors,

(01:43:14):
they know like the ins and outs of it. They
know what gorilla position is, they know what all that
is right, they know the negotiations and the angles and
the creative controls and all that. They know the contracts
when people are up right, but it's been they've been
able to suspend their disbelief because there is this level
of uncertainty because the fans can dictate where they go.
It is. It's actually really really fascinating.

Speaker 6 (01:43:37):
And the fans really do dictate it because I mean,
they're not gonna if someone's red hot, you know, for example,
you know, kofee Mania, then become convenient because of that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:46):
They're not Daniel Bryan, Daniel Brian.

Speaker 4 (01:43:50):
Of those guys are getting the title. If the fans.

Speaker 2 (01:43:52):
Are not behind that, right Dan Bryan, he's out, He's
never to be heard from. If they didn't, if the
fans need to do right Sam Punk. Sam Punk's never
example of this, Like how many times did they have
to chant him before they brought him back right exactly?

Speaker 4 (01:44:05):
So like it's an interesting business model. I've always loved this.
I to be honestly, I find wrestlers more fascinating than
national celebrities. I really do.

Speaker 6 (01:44:14):
I really do, because I think because they're they're they're
not quite famous.

Speaker 4 (01:44:18):
They're famous enough, but they're not famous to.

Speaker 6 (01:44:20):
The point where like they're like a Kardashian famous or
you know, Tom Hanks famous. They're they're famous in the
more blue collar way because they're still a business with
that requires to beat being blue collar in some ways
because it's still physical.

Speaker 2 (01:44:32):
I don't think you get more loyal or passionate fans
than wrestling fans. So, yes, you're right from a broad standpoint.
From a society standpoint, they're noticed famous as a Beyonce, right,
but the but the fans of pro wrestlers, like you
asking me about Sean Michaels or Rick Flair or something
like that, and they're like you fans will start crying

(01:44:54):
from just fix Jesus, Okay, yeah, it's crazy, and then
I will have like this unique pacific speaking of that.

Speaker 4 (01:45:03):
So I got five minutes, Okay, I have a question
for you.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
Go ahead. Hulk. When Hulk died, Yes, that that shook
me up quite a bit because that was you know,
I met him actually in your neck of the woods.
It was down at clear One Beach. Down it's in Tampa, yep. Yeah,
And I was at the beach trying to body sirf

(01:45:28):
because there's terrible ways out there. I'm talking like half footers, right,
and I see this guy walking. I'm like, why is
there a FULK Hogan impersonator at Clearwater Beach? You know,
I don't know. We had a shot down there, right.
This is when two and fifteen two. I was fifteen. Yeah,
it was twenty fifteen. I was twenty one. I just

(01:45:49):
turned twenty one, and the why is he? Why is
he down there? Right? And as he's getting closer, this
guy is huge. He's like six foot six, six foot seven.
Oh crap, that's actually I wasn't really a wrestling fan
at that point, but I knew who ul Cogan was
and I watched that Haw's a go on hulk and
he put his hand in and I'll never forget this man.
He goes not bad brother, and he keeps walking and

(01:46:10):
I was like, oh, that is the coolest thing. Huge hands,
huge Boddy. But I know there was a lot of
controversy around him, but I was still it was a
sad day from a cultural icons standing.

Speaker 6 (01:46:24):
It was I have as you know, and I spoke
with Coogan's deff on the show already. I have a
lot of perspectives on that, you know. I look, I'm
I'm a fan wrestling because of Uk Cogan. I understand
his impact.

Speaker 4 (01:46:37):
I lived it, you know, I lived in so it
was in.

Speaker 2 (01:46:43):
The eighties and nineties. He was huge.

Speaker 4 (01:46:45):
He was huge. He was what you think about the
rock right now currently, and he was that big.

Speaker 2 (01:46:52):
I I had a perspective that, baby, he was bigger.
Am I wrong with that?

Speaker 6 (01:46:55):
It's very possibly give me bigger. You know, you talk
about the eighties icons, Michael Accent Murphy, he's one of
those icons. He's one of those icons that's that pierced
through culture. You know, people knew who didn't even watch
wrestling and who Ull Cuban was. That's I think it was.

Speaker 2 (01:47:11):
Well, I'd like to think about that for I don't
know to coutch you up, but I don't know, like
twenty five years thirty five years later, whatever it was
in twenty fifteen, like well after he's Hayday and I
could recognize him residually. I could recognize him because of
how big he was in the eighties.

Speaker 4 (01:47:31):
Mhmm.

Speaker 2 (01:47:32):
Yeah, I mean that that that that's that a test
like like that.

Speaker 6 (01:47:36):
He pierces through different generations and obviously he is he
is the biggest super starting to build this and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
With the Babe Ruth Michael Jordan of wrestling.

Speaker 4 (01:47:45):
You can it's a quick yes.

Speaker 6 (01:47:47):
The argument for that definitely yes, Okay, because he may
he might have the biggest curating anymore because he Loston
probably the bigest curating on history. We but when it
comes to impact and the first real superstar that pierced
in a way that was beyond just the bubble outside
the bubble was the first one.

Speaker 4 (01:48:04):
Hold was the first one.

Speaker 2 (01:48:06):
I know, you've got two more minutes, So I'm gonna
ask you who's you? Matt Rushmore, pro restless.

Speaker 4 (01:48:12):
But Hogan number one.

Speaker 6 (01:48:13):
That's just give me the full Hogan. Now, if you
talked about pro wrestling with w W SO w W E,
for me, it's Hogan. It's Austin still. But that's a
little more controversial now to get past it because how
many years he was in the company. I think the

(01:48:33):
Rock after this final boss angle a year and a
half ago, Yeah, put him something.

Speaker 4 (01:48:39):
That conversation though.

Speaker 6 (01:48:42):
And John Cena and it's funny. It's any thing's funny
too because I wasn't watching Sena.

Speaker 4 (01:48:47):
This peak at the time. But again we.

Speaker 6 (01:48:52):
Replace marks in that smilest See here's the thing with
Sean Michaels was my top five all time pay paid
rest of all time. Sean Michaels, though didn't impact the Bill.
See when I my this is what Russ is unique.
Everybody us was different. Mine is based on economical who
impacted business and made it better. Hogan did that, Austin

(01:49:12):
did that, Rock did as well. To people could say,
well Austin Rock did because Austin true. But Rock has
done so much after that that you can't use the
Austin thing as they crutch anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
To hurt the Rock.

Speaker 4 (01:49:24):
Right, Sena is the Sina.

Speaker 6 (01:49:29):
Sena peers through the bubble again, seen as a guy
that while we did not ascend what like it wasn't
in the late nineties, but at that point they ready
maxed out because.

Speaker 4 (01:49:41):
You can't keep that.

Speaker 6 (01:49:42):
But what Sena did was keep it un level. It
didn't really come back down one and then Sena also
pierced through the bubble. He's now a star outside the bubble.
He's doing Peacemaker and Now, which just started watching recently.
It's a good show. Yeah, it's on HBO Max. So
he he piers through the bubble. All these four guys,

(01:50:03):
all these guys pierced through the bubble. Now, if it's
about if it's about with in the pro wrestling argument,
that's when the Rick Flair's come in place.

Speaker 4 (01:50:10):
That's when all the guys that need to come to
the place.

Speaker 6 (01:50:12):
But those four guys to me are the four. Now
Roman reigns has a chance in a couple of years
to pierce as well. To Undertaker is a phenomenal character,
the greatest characteristy wrestling. He's top ten all time.

Speaker 4 (01:50:23):
But he wasn't the business was.

Speaker 6 (01:50:27):
Right and knowing that he was knowing that the company
wasn't built on that shoulders like the four guys I mentioned,
they were the guys that the the economics says that
of that company were shouldered by those four guys.

Speaker 2 (01:50:40):
I think Roman rains will will be on that list
because he kind of have because Austin was Austin had
a a reign that was short lived but dominant.

Speaker 6 (01:50:51):
Yes, so that's what Austin wins solely because of that
of Q rating. Because Austin's curating to this day is
the biggest in company history. Yeah today, now you go
up today, He's get the biggest pop in history of
the company to this day.

Speaker 2 (01:51:06):
It's funny. I had a I had a friend and
who was a he used to be a pro wrestling.
When he found out that I linked in Texas. The
first thing you did was send me a Austin three
six stas I still have.

Speaker 4 (01:51:17):
That's awesome. That's awesome, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:51:20):
But you know what at this episode was awesome. Man,
thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 4 (01:51:23):
Yeah, yeah, you know what. Let's let's let's have more question.
I want to ask you. Let's put a pin in it.
We can we can pick a pot again soon. Seriously,
can pop with in the next month we want to?

Speaker 6 (01:51:31):
I'm okay with that. Yeah, before we get to go,
I have one question to ask you. Were we go
because I missed the podcast. Man, I missed your podcast.
I missed your mister, your commentary. I know NBA is
not your thing anymore, and isn't that but is there
a chance you'll get back to that medium again?

Speaker 2 (01:51:50):
Yes, there's a very big chance. So I do that.

Speaker 4 (01:51:52):
Yeah, okay, the good you want to plug anything for?
You got here?

Speaker 2 (01:51:55):
No, mat this is fun. I had so much fun.
I have to I have to listeners had as much
fun as but I had.

Speaker 6 (01:52:02):
All right, brother, that was awesome. We'll do it again soon,
and I mean really so with the next month or two.
So definitely a buddy, everybody, you got my ticket right

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