January 20, 2025 • 35 mins
Practical progress toward a sustainable lifestyle, whether you are an individual or a business, will always be unique to your situation, but you can base your choices on lessons learned by others. Tune into a conversation with Sarah Currie-Halpern, Co-Founder of Think Zero LLC, a consultancy that helps businesses, institutions, and households reduce waste and embrace sustainable practices. With a focus on practical, actionable solutions, Sarah and her team work to make sustainability accessible to many clients. Sarah shares travel tips to keep in mind to reduce your impact on the ground in other cities and countries. Taking a water bottle, reusable utensils, and a coffee cup can eliminate the single-use stuff you’ll find at many hotels and resorts. Check out Ecohotels.com and the Global Sustainable Tourism Council’s guidance. You will discover insights that can pierce the veil of greenwashing by travel marketers with the information you find there.
Sarah draws on her waste management work in the office of the Mayor of New York to discuss the potential for applications of artificial intelligence (AI) to reduce the flow of materials to landfill. According to several studies, AI could consume up to 10% of electricity generated by the end of the decade. AI can be a powerful tool, but many companies focus on delivering trivial consumer convenience using the technology. Finding your next favorite social video or saving the effort involved in changing the channel on your TV are not worthwhile applications of technology that could be applied to, for example, developing fire suppression materials that are free of the toxins and heavy metals dumped in waves of red on cities in the Los Angeles basin amid this year’s wildfires. We can and will use AI to invent new, sustainable materials, sort reusable materials out of the waste stream, and much more. Still, we should not see every question humans pose, like “What’s on TV tonight?” handed to AI to resolve. If information is the new oil, we can use AI more judiciously than we did with petroleum during the Industrial Age. You can learn more about Sarah and her work at Think Zero at https://www.thinkzerollc.com/
Sarah draws on her waste management work in the office of the Mayor of New York to discuss the potential for applications of artificial intelligence (AI) to reduce the flow of materials to landfill. According to several studies, AI could consume up to 10% of electricity generated by the end of the decade. AI can be a powerful tool, but many companies focus on delivering trivial consumer convenience using the technology. Finding your next favorite social video or saving the effort involved in changing the channel on your TV are not worthwhile applications of technology that could be applied to, for example, developing fire suppression materials that are free of the toxins and heavy metals dumped in waves of red on cities in the Los Angeles basin amid this year’s wildfires. We can and will use AI to invent new, sustainable materials, sort reusable materials out of the waste stream, and much more. Still, we should not see every question humans pose, like “What’s on TV tonight?” handed to AI to resolve. If information is the new oil, we can use AI more judiciously than we did with petroleum during the Industrial Age. You can learn more about Sarah and her work at Think Zero at https://www.thinkzerollc.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
Hello, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you
are on this beautiful planet of ours, Welcome to Sustainability
in your Ear. This is the podcast conversation about accelerating
the transition to a sustainable, carbon neutral society, and I'm
your host, Matt Tracliffe. Thank you for joining the conversation.
Practical progress toward a sustainable lifestyle, whether you're an individual
(00:27):
or a business, will always be a unique challenge based
on your situation, but you can base those choices on
lessons learned from others. And today we're going to talk
with Sarah Curry Halpern, who is co founder of Think
zero LLC, a consultancy that helps businesses, institutions, and households
reduce waste and embrace sustainable practices. With a focus on practical,
(00:50):
actionable solutions. Sarah and her team work to make sustainability
accessible to a wide range of their clients. In addition
to our work with Think zero, Sarah is deeply engaged
and exploring how new emerging technology such as artificial intelligence
can improve waste management systems, and she's also an advocate
for sustainable tourism and has a passion for helping people
(01:10):
incorporate low waste practices into their daily lives as they travel.
We'll chat about all these issues and you can learn
more about Sarah and her work at Think Zero's website.
That's Think zero llc all one word, no space, no dash,
Think zero llc dot com. We'll get to the conversation
right after this quick commercial break. Welcome to the show, Sarah,
(01:37):
how you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm doing great. Thanks Match, Thank you so much for
having me on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, hey, thank you very much for joining. And I
want to start off by asking you know you founded
Think zero. Tell us about when you started and what
motivated to start a company that focuses on sustainability and
low waste. It's not something everybody jumps into.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah. So, at the time before I started Thinking Zero,
I was at the Mayor's Office of New York City.
I was running solid waste and zero waste programs for
Mayor Bildeblazo at the time and saw a tremendous need
in the private sector for this kind of work. I
ended up through the Mayor Zero Waste Challenge, which I
founded and ran with my team. I met a lot
(02:19):
of private companies, everything from hotels to major corporations that
were just starting to do this waste reduction work but
really didn't have good partners to do it with them.
At the same time, I met my business partner, Ushma
Pandia Metta through cloth Dype bring our daughters our husbands
like to joke that we shared secondhand underwear, and through
(02:40):
that we formed a friendship and then realized we wanted
to launch Think zero together. I came up with the
name think zero and quickly grabbed the URL because such
a good name would go really fast, and before we
knew its September twenty sixteen, we had a business and
within the first year we had our first set of
clients and the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Who are some of your clients?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, so in we have a lot of New York clients,
but growing across the country. So RXR, you may know,
is a big real estate owner Brookfield Properties, Disney. We've
worked with a variety of different private schools such as
Riverdale School out of New York, and a lot of
other real estate owners and developers across the country, private
(03:21):
schools and sort of one off projects that could be
any you know, a lot of different corporations.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
A lot of different kind of clients, what kind of
what would you say the common challenges that these organizations
are all facing.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, so I would say, when it comes to waste reduction,
they are, you know, A couple of the common challenges
are basically leadership buy in. Really making sure your leaders
are you know, completely bought into the program, because it's
really not going to work if the leadership isn't bought in.
Then I would say a lack of awareness of the
(03:55):
global waste crisis, perhaps not at the leadership level, but
more trickle down more at the employee level, and a
lack of awareness for how these issues affect our health
and our livelihood. And then number three I would say
is a lack of understanding for how to properly sort
waste streams so that the materials can be donated, recycled,
or use composted, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Leadership buy in. Should their compensation and other incentives be
aligned with their zero commitments or is this something that
is just not easy for a lot of organizations to embrace.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I certainly think that that should be the case. I
might have heard of one or two organizations, but it's
very few and far between where the leadership compensation is
tied to sustainability goals and targets. I think that would
be a fantastic thing to do, and I could see
some very cutting edge organizations doing that. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The other thing is you talked about the need to
understand how to sort waste, and obviously it's what Earth
nine when one spends a lot of time helping people understand.
But I know how hard it is. So this is
the question. You're describing not simply a recycling sequence, but
a circular economy where things might be donated or repaired
and reused in a variety of different ways. How should
a business think about the circular economy not just in
(05:08):
terms of its own material that it might take back
in my cycle, it's comprehensively. Can you can you draw
a picture of the space that they need to enter?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sure? Yeah. So we currently live in a linear economy
as far as sustainability and waste, where basically we create
products in a straight line, we use, we transport them,
we use them, and then we dispose of them. And
so that's what we call the linear economy. What we're
transitioning to is a circular economy, and that's where we're
in a circular. We're in a circle essentially where all
(05:38):
these materials and inputs are kept in the loop for
as long as possible until we need to bring them
to their end of life. And when I say kept
in the loop, that's manufacturing usage and then hopefully repaired
and used again or reused in some of the sold
and use again, consigned and use again, re manufactured and
(05:59):
used again, and so those materials are in the loop
so much longer, and you can see how that really
cuts down on greenhouse gas emissions because otherwise we're creating
new virgin inputs all the time. So with a circular economy,
we'll still need to have new virgin materials obviously and
new products, but the idea is they'll be less of
(06:19):
that because you are reusing these materials and keeping them
loop so much longer.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Roles in the organization are key to that. I mean,
it sounds like, for instance, the procurement team has to
think differently about the assets they acquire, including how potentially
to monetize them as they're they're completely they're finished being useful.
The operations team, who typically do you engage with and
work most closely with.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, in the case of our clients. We're working with
a lot of real estate teams, procurement teams for sure,
Marketing communications teams are really essential because these are the
folks that are disseminating this important content about circularity, about
waste reduction, about you know, all these programs we do.
And then of course the cleaning teams as well. The
(07:02):
cleaning teams are the folks that touch the waste every
day that goes through the space, and really we call
them our eyes and ears on the ground. They are
responsible for properly sorting the materials and so they play
a key role as well. I would love to see
more directors of sustainability. I think a lot of organizations
now do have a sustainability role specifically, but not enough.
(07:24):
We still have a long ways to go to see
every large corporation or every medium sized corporation have a
sustainability you know, have one person in charge of sustainability.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So that raises a question about whether or not you
see it. And during commitment, in the face of Trump
round two, we're seeing a lot of companies pull back
on a variety of types of commitments. Do you think
that this is a practice that is still going to
continue to propagate and grow.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I do I think that companies realize that it's there,
you know, really so much of this work lies in
their hands and is their responsibility, even in the face
of a federal government that doesn't support this work. I
think that we're going to learn a lot over the
next three to four weeks right on where we really
stand with all that. So I think it's early to say,
but I personally haven't seen a lot of corporations stepping
(08:15):
back on their corporate sustainability and ESG commitments. So I
remain positive that the private sector knows that, you know,
the responsibility really lies in their hands, as well as
more in the state and local municipalities. I think mayors
and governors also take on a big role here and
can keep this work going again, even during a federal
(08:37):
government that is not supportive of sustainability initiatives.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So do you find that one of the big challenges
is just getting the organization to understand the business case
for sustainability. For lack of a better phrase, I mean,
how do you make that clear to someone that is
not simply going to be more profitable, but that it
is going to create in a resilient marketplace. That they
(09:02):
can continue to operate in.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, that's a great question because many companies are not
driven by reducing environmental footprint alone. As we both know. Yes,
we often need to make the business case for sustainability,
but it's a much easier case to make these days
because companies doing this work reaps so many benefits, including
things like being more desirable to younger workers. I think
younger workers in the workforce are demanding these things. They
(09:25):
want to see a bona fide recycling program, they want
to see composting programs, they want to see a thought
process sustainability goals, and they will select their future job
based on some of these metrics. Shareholder approval certainly important.
We see that the financial markets are having more and
more opportunities where you can invest sustainably, so they are
demanding that upon corporations marketing communication opportunities. I think this
(09:49):
is certainly a pr opportunity. You know, if you are
if your company is doing meaningful things and sustainability, you
should be talking about it. You should be putting it
on your social media channels, you know, and and promoting
the fact that you're doing that, and of course it
benefits the bottom line through cost savings. So for example,
one private schooly work with switched to reusables in the
cafeteria and they're saving thousands of dollars per month on
(10:12):
not having to buy those disposables, even with a little
additional cost of labor and dishwashing. And so there's and
that's just one example of so many on where we
can save money. So we see that many companies are
now putting out sustainability reports and or doing ESG. Of course,
the environmental social governance planning tackling your waste problem is
essential if you're committed to reducing your environmental footprint and
(10:34):
reporting on ESG. And just one other thing I'll say
about that is that people don't realize that waste is
a climate issue. As as I was saying before about
the circular circularity. The creation of new version materials and
products emits a tremendous amount of greenhouse gas emissions. Transporting
those products and materials uses a tremendous amount of green
house gas emissions. And landfilling and incinerating those materials after
(10:57):
they are used, oftentimes just use just one also emits
a tremendous amount of methane and other ghds. So most
people and companies care about climate change today. So when
we make the climate connection, a light bulb goes off
in their heads and they realize that they must do
this work to help the climate and also to remain
competitive since most of their competitors are doing this work
(11:18):
as well. Well.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Let's use RXR, the commercial real estate company that you
mentioned a moment ago, as an example. I was reading
the case study on your site, and it strikes me
that it's a community effort, even though it's a company
at the center of that community that owns the seventeen
million square feet of property, but they have to get
the tenants involved, the cleaning teams. As you talked about,
what are the organizations outside that world that you suggest
(11:43):
somebody start exploring new relationships with, like Waste Hollers for instance.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, partnerships are absolutely essential to make this work, of course,
because what are we doing with the waste and what
are we doing with these materials that we want to
be recycling and stuff like that. So there's a whole
slew of partners that involved. Yeah, Waste Hollers is a
huge one. I mean in the New York market, some
of the names are consistent with the names you might
hear across the country, like a Waste Connections, and then
(12:09):
a lot of them are more regional to the New
York space, which is like an Action Environmental, Royal Waste
and some of these other haulers. But they're only one
piece of the puzzle. There's a huge network of people
that's also food donation, furniture donation, specialty recycling. The category
of specialty recycling is all those other things that can't
(12:29):
be recycled in your regular cycling then, but we are
recycling them for clients, and that's things like coffee pods, batteries, electronics,
you know, bulk materials that might be like bulky metal,
bulky plastic, and so there's a whole big category where
we rely on partners to come collect these materials to
again keep them in that loop.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Does that mean that it really is important to engage
somebody externally to help you forge that network of relationships
or is that something that I company and increasingly can
start to explore itself.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I think companies that are up for it again from
what I've seen, if you have at least a couple
of full time folks working on this effort, like a
director of sustainability along with at least maybe one or
two staff members. I think you could pull that off
and do it yourself. What we see is challenging, and
particularly in environments like a school environment or a nonprofit institution,
(13:26):
is you'll have one person who like half their duty
is to be the sustainability person, and that person is
completely frazzled, right, And it's just it's a full time job.
It really is a full time job. So I don't
recommend that companies take this on on their own unless
they have at least one full time person and ideally
several full time people focus on this because it is
(13:46):
I can tell you I do this day and day out,
and it is certainly a full time job. With the
team of you know, I have my team five people
plus another fifteen wasteoutit contractors that are highly trained, and
so all in all, we have about twenty people working
on this effort, in addition to all our partners that
we work with.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Now, you write and talk a lot about individual decisions
that somebody can make, but getting the customer involved in
this network and giving them actions that they can take
that extend the effort of the company at the center
of whatever circular economy we're talking about is really important.
What's your advice to an individual who wants to make
a difference, whether it's with their commercial real estate landlord
(14:27):
or the retailer that they chop with on a regular basis,
what should they be telling them they want?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I think I can think consumers do need to
speak up more and be the squeaky wheel. I think
it's super important. I'm a squeaky wheel and I certainly
subscribe to that. Yeah. When it comes to your use
that you asked about the example of like a tenant
in a real estate space, I think definitely speak up.
Go and talk to your property manager or your assistant
property manager, or your janitorial team, whoever you have that
(14:56):
relationship with in the building, and ask them, what are
our programs? What are we doing for cycling? Are you
going to be starting a composting program? Are you specialty
recycling anything? Are you making an effort to you know,
when there are bulk materials to separate out recyclables, you know,
ask those questions and continue to ask those questions, and
you'll see that things will start to change because these
(15:17):
are you know, property managers in that in that case.
In this in this example, I should say, are really
care about what their tenants think? And also we know
there's been a bit of a downturn in the commercial
real estate industry, and so they want to keep their
tenants happy, trust me. And then in the case of
just like a typical consumer, you know, one example I
think is a well, I shouldn't say one example. Many
(15:40):
big brands nowadays are asking more of their consumers as
far as what they need to be doing. One example
of this, I think is like all the compostable products
that are on the market today, such as I'm not
just talking about compostable plates and cups. I'm also talking
about you know, you could have a lip bloss pape
wrapped in paper which is supposedly compostable. But guess what.
(16:02):
The onus is then on the consumer to participate in
that to do the right thing. That item needs to
be composted. Many people don't have access to composting programs,
or even if they do have access to it, they
might not be aware of it, they might not have
to do it, might not know how to do it correctly.
And so I think companies are asking more and more
of consumers and in turn need to educate their consumers
(16:24):
better on how they can participate to make the right
choices for those products as far as being able to
divert them.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
This raises an interesting extension of that question because you
already called out the fact, for instance, that commercial real
estate is already struggling, and so they're trying to keep
their vendors. Cities are going through really significant transformations right
now because in the wake of the pandemic, people are
not going to town to work anymore. What are you
(16:51):
telling your clients about the opportunity to reconfigure their space
to do more of these things in addition to simply
being profitable. Is this an opportunity to rethink the urban
center as a sustainable environment.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, I absolutely think so. I would see. I would
say that most of our clients are actually requiring their
employees to return to work, and this is across the
country and in typically in cities, but in most cases
four days a week you know, is more typical. Now
people are largely back in the office, and waste generation
has for the most part gone back to pre COVID levels.
(17:27):
So I think in those cases we're already seeing that,
you know, waste is up and maybe there isn't as
much opportunity to restack that space. But in cases where
you know, there are a lot of commercial owners that
are thinking of converting buildings, for example, to residential buildings,
I think that's a tremendous opportunity and that's something my
business partner I want to take advantage of to, you know,
talk to these owners about how they can set up
(17:50):
their buildings for twenty first century zero waste and circularity.
And that is something that we do. And in that case,
we're coming in and we're looking at infrastructure in the building.
Let's we always we always feel that, you know, we
get involved in projects, very early development projects that so
much of that space gets grabbed for other things and
there just isn't space left for these zero waste programs
(18:11):
and circularity that we want to do, and we really
need a significant amount of space. In many cases, you
need a lot of storage space. You'll need different categories
of bins to be able to separate into so many
different categories. You'll need really good infrastructure like maybe a
cardboard bailer, a plastics bailer, maybe compactors for different larger streams.
You know, you also want to be thinking about infrastructure
(18:32):
throughout the buildings, such as water bottle refillers. Also, we're
big proponents of switching from paper towels to air hand dryers,
and I'm talking about modern, super efficient air hand dryers
where they're really not using a lot more energy. So
there's so much you can do in a building to
make it ready for twenty first century zero waste programming,
and we do hope to get some of that work
(18:52):
from this reset, if you will. This post COVID reset.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Going to be an interesting time for sure, and I
want to turn to what somehow of you writing and
other topics, but we're going to take a quick commercial break.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Now, let's get back to the discussion with Sarah Curry Halpern.
She's co founder of Thinks Zero. It's a sustainability consultancy
that helps businesses, institutions, and individuals reduce waste. Sarah, I
want to talk about some of your recent writing, and
you've written extensively about sustainable tourism and you've discussed ways
to reduce travel related waste. What's your practical advice for
a traveler who wants to make a positive impact where
(19:32):
they go. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Absolutely, So before you travel, definitely do some research on
the hotels or resorts you're considering visiting. Many of them
will include a link to their sustainability plans or commitments
at the very bottom of the website. This is something
I always look for. You can also visit their awards
page to see if they've won any awards related or
accolades related to sustainability. Checking on ecohotels dot com is
a great place to start if you're just sort of
(19:54):
starting this ecotourism journey. There you can book hotels and
resorts around the world that have received some kind of
sustainability certification, so that's a fantastic easy place to start. Also,
don't be afraid again to be the squeaky wheel. I
travel a lot and often ask to speak to a
manager or leave a note for the manager with feedback
about their sustainability efforts and changes they can make to
(20:16):
do more. I will ask if they compost and recycle.
I will check to see if they've switched to repellable
pumps in the bathroom for shampoo, soapen conditioner. If they're
still using disposables, I'll comment to the manager that my
family would appreciate making this switch. I always check online
to find out if the tap water is safe to drink.
That's a huge one. Think about it when you travel somewhere.
If you're relying on plastic water bottles for that entire trip,
(20:39):
that's going to be If you're a big water drinker
like me, that's going to be maybe eight up to
eight bottles of water a day. Times however, many days
you're there, that's a tremendous amount of plastic waste. Most
places in the US have sophisticated water purification and infrastructure,
and the water is safe to drink. It's not always
the case internationally, of course. If the tap water is
safe to drink, I'll ask if they sorry. If the
(20:59):
tap water is un safe to drink, I'll ask if
they purify the water in the kitchen. I've traveled to
places like Nicaragua, India and elsewhere where. If it's a
decent hotel, they will actually purify the water in the kitchen,
and that way, at least part of your water can
be coming from a tap and not having to be
coming from water bottles for the entire trip. I think
(21:19):
another thing is also your own personal decisions that you
make going on that trip. I highly recommend bring walter,
bring your own refillable water bottle, bring your own coffee cup,
and bring your own utensils. And you'd be amazed to
see how much waste this cuts down on an average trip.
Is particularly if you're traveling around Europe for a week,
you're traveling around South America for a week. Just having
(21:42):
these three items, just a little kit of utensils, a
small refillable coffee cup, and a small water bottle will
cut down on I would say, you know, at least
fifty percent of your waist during that time. And if
you have a little extra space, maybe bring a little
stackable container for food leftovers as well. I try to
all always remember to bring my little stackable food leftover container,
(22:04):
not only when I travel, but also when I go
to restaurants right in my own hometown of Older Colorado.
And so these are some of my kind of key
starting points as far as thinking more sustainably about tourism
and what you can do on the road as well.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
One of the things you mentioned, well, two of the
things certifications is one, but I want to put that
aside for a moment. You mentioned awards and accolades. How
do you judge whether or not awards and accolades are
actually genuine or whether they are manufactured? Do you have
any tips for folks about that?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, I would check the Global Sustainable Tourism Council. I
often visit their website and they have listed their most
of the accolades that are out there for ecotourism. Yeah,
so I would definitely start there. They also are a
great resource for just being an eco conscious traveler. There
you can find both certified sustainable accommodations as well as
(22:54):
certified sustainable destinations, and so I really think that's a
great place to start. That's where I go most of
the time when I'm looking up an organization.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
What are examples of sustainable destinations that you can point
to and say without a doubt, that's a great place
to go.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Absolutely. So. You can read more on my blog at
think zerollc dot com forward slash blog. In my blog
post what does Sustainable Tourism look Like? There, I talk
about Singapore being the first entire country to be certified
by the Global Sustainable Tourism Council in twenty twenty three.
So it achieved this by pursuing its ambitious Green Plan
twenty thirty, which is responsible for the development of infrastructure
(23:31):
and conservation projects that are attractive and beneficial to tourists
and locals alike, such as building more public transit, reducing waste,
and increasing parkland by fifty percent. I was particularly impressed
here because, unlike so many other sustainability targets, they've done
so much of this work three twenty thirty. They're not
waiting for twenty thirty, so much of it has already done.
(23:52):
And if you look, it's absolutely beautiful parkland that I
can see. I can see how it's benefiting both tourists
and locals, So I think that's really fantastic. I certainly
want to go to go visit Singapore soon because of
everything that they're doing. I also love what Copenhagen is
doing with their Cope and Pay. This is a program
designed to reward visitors for climate friendly actions. So participants
(24:12):
could earn museum tickets, boat rentals, and free drinks and
meals at restaurants by collecting trash, taking public transit, or
riding a bike. And I think this is a This
is really brilliant because we know it thinks zero that
incentivizing people to do eco friendly behaviors with rewards really works,
primarily because people love gamification and they especially love to
(24:32):
save money.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Why do you think that American cities haven't embraced this?
And is there an American city? Maybe Washington, DC, because
it's the destination for folks who care about this country
to embrace this model and start to try to create
those internal incentives as well. What do we need to
rethink about our cities based on your views on sustainable travel?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I think we need to learn from some of these
other cities. I don't see enough of this in the US.
I think that you know, things like cope and pay
like programs designed to reward visitors for climate friendly actions
is absolutely fantastic, and we should see more of this
in our cities. You know. Perhaps part of it is
that we're bogged down with so many other issues in
our cities, you know. Of course, I think there's a
lot of things at play here, but I would love
(25:18):
to see this coming to cities like Washington, d C,
New York City and other cities around our country.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So let's change topic a bit. You've written about your
enthusiasm for Artificial intelligence in waste stream management. How do
you see AI revolutionizing waste management over the course of
the next decade.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I think, like so many other industries, AI is a
tool that can help make waste management and waste reduction
diversion more efficient. AI is definitely shaking up the waste field.
Everything from AI powered robots sorting waste at mirphs or
material recovery facilities which is a fancy name for recycling centers,
to AI systems monitoring landfills and patching up methane leaks
or helping prevent lead hate runoff. I think there's a
(26:01):
lot more coming to I think smart bins. You know,
so many other technologies can help change behaviors, so I
think we're going to see a lot MOREAI coming in
the waste industry. But the downsides are enormous as well.
AI has a huge carbon footprint and also uses a
frightening amount of fresh water to cool data centers, so
I have my concerns as well.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I do know that there's a particularly data center cool
in that there were recirculation initiative going on across the industry,
But do you see in the long term AI's benefits
the environmental benefits outweighing the impact that you just described.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I think it's possible, but we'll need more data to
make this determination. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic about AI's
impact on the waste industry, but I am using it
sparingly due to the again, the enormous demands it has
on our natural resources, both energy and water. For example,
freshwater evaporation related to AI energy needs is a rapidly
growing problem. Last year, researchers found that global AI demand
(27:00):
account for four point two to six point six billion
cubic meters of water withdrawal in twenty twenty seven. If
AI keeps growing at the same rate every year. And
so I'm pleased to hear that data center groups and
companies are trying to do something about this to minimize
their environmental impact. But I definitely have my concerns.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
One of the other questions about AI is, for instance,
Google is doing some really interesting work with high speed sorting.
You can separate the material, But one of the implicit
I guess it's the best way to describe it as
biases built into that is that it's still a take
make waste kind of a solution than a circular solution
and aimed at sorting out the material that you can
(27:43):
easily recycle versus all of that specialized material that you
were talking about before. Are we encouraging through the application
of AI in that way further wasteful consumption? And have
you thought about how you could take it and flip
it around to give feedback to say, you know, you
produce a lot of stuff that can't be reused. What
(28:04):
can we do with AI to start to teach us
about what we're doing to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, I would look at AI for other applications and
that's where I would get excited with AI for circularity.
I'm sure there's already thought about this, but I think,
for example, AI could be processing things like clothing and shoes.
I recently wrote about shoes. Shoes is a tremendous problem
on planet Earth. It's shocking the number of shoes that
(28:29):
are produced and thrown away every year. It's in the billions.
I think if AI could be harnessed to go through
very large piles of textiles, apparel, shoes to sort out,
you know, your different categories of you know, in perfect condition,
fully sellable from Okay, this is donatable, but it wouldn't
(28:51):
be sellable, and then you know this is really has
to be this is end of life. But how can
we maybe recycle these materials? I think that could go
along way and also prevent that issue you were talking
about of AI being used just to continue our waste
problem and encourage more wasteful consumption.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
If you step back and you look at the big picture,
what do you think the most impactful change or changes
that we could put into practice globally might be. I'm
curious about this with everybody from a variety of perspectives,
because we're only going to find the solution when many
of us see the same thing.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
That's right. Unfortunately, with the downturn in the fossil fuels industry,
largely due to renewable energy but also just less demand globally,
many fossil fuel companies have switched their focus to plastic
production from fossil fuels as a means to increase profits.
This is highly concerning because the planet is already bombarded
with way too much plastic filling our land, waterways, and
even our bodies as we know. I believe we need
(29:49):
to figure out how to convince fossil fuel companies and
other plastics producers to turn off the plastics faucet, as
I like to call it, and this is the rampant
production of platastics, particularly single use plastics. Because there's never
going to be enough reduce, reuse, recycle to fix the
global plastic and waste crisis. We need to stop the
(30:11):
problem at its source. This is something I'm thinking a
lot about.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
What's the business case for a petroleum manufacturer to do that?
I mean, they just did one hundred and fifty years.
Please burn our stuff so we can tell you more
of it. How do they need to rethink their business?
What would you do with the remaining petroleum reserves to
make it worth their while?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I would leave them in the ground. I think they
belong in the ground. Right We know that they are
derived from dinosaurs and other ancestors, and I think they
belong in the ground. I think they need to shift
their business model to business model to renewables, and I
do see that happening, and I am excited to see
that some of them are thinking big about renewables and
getting into the renewable space. I really think that where
(30:54):
that's that's where it's at. Let's leave those fossil fuels
right where they originally are and where they belong, because
the moment we take them out, we know that there's
a ton of emissions involved in that process and in
the usage of fossil fuels, So I don't think they
have any place being used on planet Earth at this time.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Sarah, thank you so much for your time today. How
can folks follow your work and keep up on your ideas?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah? Absolutely, they can find me on LinkedIn. Just type
in my name Sarah Curry Hyphen Halpern, or check out
our website and blog at think zerollc dot com forward
slash blog. I write about at least once a month,
if not twice a month, about all issues related to
waste and sustainability.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you, Thank you very much. I have a great afternoon.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Thanks so much much. You too.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
You've been listening to a conversation with think zero LLC
co founder Sarah Curry Halpern, who writes about sustainable travel,
waste management, and other issues related to reducing business and
individual environmental impacts at think zero llc dot com. That's
think zero zero LLLC all one word, no space, no dash,
(32:04):
think zero llc dot com And once you get to
the site, click on the blog link and the menu
to find her latest postings. Until carbon neutral aviation and
rail fuels are realized at scale, truly sustainable travel lies
somewhere in the future, but stereos tips are important to
keep in mind to reduce your impact when you're on
the ground. Taking a water bottle, reusable utensils and coffee
(32:26):
cup can eliminate the single use stuff you'll find at
many hotels and debt and resorts. And do take time
to check out ecohotels dot com. That's all one word,
no space, no dash, ecohotels dot com and the Global
Sustainable Tourism Councils guidance, which you can find at GST Council.
That's all one word, no space, no dash again Gstcouncil
(32:48):
dot org. And once you get there, look for the
four Travelers Guidance. You'll find insights that can pierce the
veil of greenwashing by travel marketers. With the information you
find on both those sites, and that's hard to do,
so take the time to do it. You'll have a
better trip and a better outcome for the planet. Now,
let's take a moment to think about AI, which could
consume up to ten percent of electricity generated by the
(33:11):
end of this decade. According to several studies, Artificial intelligence
can be a powerful tool, but many companies are focused
on delivering greater consumer convenience using the technology. Finding your
favorite social video or saving the effort involved in changing
the channel on your TV are not worthwhile applications of
something that could be applied to, for example, developing fire
(33:34):
suppression materials that are free of the toxins and heavy
metals being dumped in waves of red on the cities
in southern California in the midst of this year's wildfires.
We can and we'll use AI to invent new sustainable materials,
sort reusable materials out of the watstream, and much more.
But we should not see every question posed by humans,
like what's on TV tonight as a nail for the
(33:56):
AI hammer to resolve. We can make a more judicious
use of AI than we did with, say, petroleum during
the Industrial age. Let's think about it before we just
start using it for everything. And you can change the
dialogue by sharing sustainability in your ear with your friends
and family. We've got more than five hundred shows to
choose from and writing review on your favorite podcast platform
(34:18):
will help your neighbors find us. Please take the time.
You are the amplifier that can spread more ideas to
create less waste. Tell your friends, family, and coworkers, even
the people you meet on the street that they can
find sustainability in your Ear on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Audible,
or whatever purveyor of podcast goodness that they prefer. Thank you,
(34:39):
folks for your support. I'm Mitch Ratcliffe. This is sustainability
in your Ear and we will be back with another
Innovator interviews soon. In the meantime, folks, take care of yourself,
take care of one another, and let's all take care
of this beautiful planet of ours. Have a green day.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
It's pas
Hello, good morning, good afternoon, or good evening, wherever you
are on this beautiful planet of ours, Welcome to Sustainability
in your Ear. This is the podcast conversation about accelerating
the transition to a sustainable, carbon neutral society, and I'm
your host, Matt Tracliffe. Thank you for joining the conversation.
Practical progress toward a sustainable lifestyle, whether you're an individual
(00:27):
or a business, will always be a unique challenge based
on your situation, but you can base those choices on
lessons learned from others. And today we're going to talk
with Sarah Curry Halpern, who is co founder of Think
zero LLC, a consultancy that helps businesses, institutions, and households
reduce waste and embrace sustainable practices. With a focus on practical,
(00:50):
actionable solutions. Sarah and her team work to make sustainability
accessible to a wide range of their clients. In addition
to our work with Think zero, Sarah is deeply engaged
and exploring how new emerging technology such as artificial intelligence
can improve waste management systems, and she's also an advocate
for sustainable tourism and has a passion for helping people
(01:10):
incorporate low waste practices into their daily lives as they travel.
We'll chat about all these issues and you can learn
more about Sarah and her work at Think Zero's website.
That's Think zero llc all one word, no space, no dash,
Think zero llc dot com. We'll get to the conversation
right after this quick commercial break. Welcome to the show, Sarah,
(01:37):
how you doing today?
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I'm doing great. Thanks Match, Thank you so much for
having me on the show.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
Well, hey, thank you very much for joining. And I
want to start off by asking you know you founded
Think zero. Tell us about when you started and what
motivated to start a company that focuses on sustainability and
low waste. It's not something everybody jumps into.
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Yeah. So, at the time before I started Thinking Zero,
I was at the Mayor's Office of New York City.
I was running solid waste and zero waste programs for
Mayor Bildeblazo at the time and saw a tremendous need
in the private sector for this kind of work. I
ended up through the Mayor Zero Waste Challenge, which I
founded and ran with my team. I met a lot
(02:19):
of private companies, everything from hotels to major corporations that
were just starting to do this waste reduction work but
really didn't have good partners to do it with them.
At the same time, I met my business partner, Ushma
Pandia Metta through cloth Dype bring our daughters our husbands
like to joke that we shared secondhand underwear, and through
(02:40):
that we formed a friendship and then realized we wanted
to launch Think zero together. I came up with the
name think zero and quickly grabbed the URL because such
a good name would go really fast, and before we
knew its September twenty sixteen, we had a business and
within the first year we had our first set of
clients and the rest is history.
Speaker 1 (02:58):
Who are some of your clients?
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Yeah, so in we have a lot of New York clients,
but growing across the country. So RXR, you may know,
is a big real estate owner Brookfield Properties, Disney. We've
worked with a variety of different private schools such as
Riverdale School out of New York, and a lot of
other real estate owners and developers across the country, private
(03:21):
schools and sort of one off projects that could be
any you know, a lot of different corporations.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
A lot of different kind of clients, what kind of
what would you say the common challenges that these organizations
are all facing.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Yeah, so I would say, when it comes to waste reduction,
they are, you know, A couple of the common challenges
are basically leadership buy in. Really making sure your leaders
are you know, completely bought into the program, because it's
really not going to work if the leadership isn't bought in.
Then I would say a lack of awareness of the
(03:55):
global waste crisis, perhaps not at the leadership level, but
more trickle down more at the employee level, and a
lack of awareness for how these issues affect our health
and our livelihood. And then number three I would say
is a lack of understanding for how to properly sort
waste streams so that the materials can be donated, recycled,
or use composted, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Leadership buy in. Should their compensation and other incentives be
aligned with their zero commitments or is this something that
is just not easy for a lot of organizations to embrace.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
I certainly think that that should be the case. I
might have heard of one or two organizations, but it's
very few and far between where the leadership compensation is
tied to sustainability goals and targets. I think that would
be a fantastic thing to do, and I could see
some very cutting edge organizations doing that. We'll see.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
The other thing is you talked about the need to
understand how to sort waste, and obviously it's what Earth
nine when one spends a lot of time helping people understand.
But I know how hard it is. So this is
the question. You're describing not simply a recycling sequence, but
a circular economy where things might be donated or repaired
and reused in a variety of different ways. How should
a business think about the circular economy not just in
(05:08):
terms of its own material that it might take back
in my cycle, it's comprehensively. Can you can you draw
a picture of the space that they need to enter?
Speaker 2 (05:18):
Sure? Yeah. So we currently live in a linear economy
as far as sustainability and waste, where basically we create
products in a straight line, we use, we transport them,
we use them, and then we dispose of them. And
so that's what we call the linear economy. What we're
transitioning to is a circular economy, and that's where we're
in a circular. We're in a circle essentially where all
(05:38):
these materials and inputs are kept in the loop for
as long as possible until we need to bring them
to their end of life. And when I say kept
in the loop, that's manufacturing usage and then hopefully repaired
and used again or reused in some of the sold
and use again, consigned and use again, re manufactured and
(05:59):
used again, and so those materials are in the loop
so much longer, and you can see how that really
cuts down on greenhouse gas emissions because otherwise we're creating
new virgin inputs all the time. So with a circular economy,
we'll still need to have new virgin materials obviously and
new products, but the idea is they'll be less of
(06:19):
that because you are reusing these materials and keeping them
loop so much longer.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Roles in the organization are key to that. I mean,
it sounds like, for instance, the procurement team has to
think differently about the assets they acquire, including how potentially
to monetize them as they're they're completely they're finished being useful.
The operations team, who typically do you engage with and
work most closely with.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Yeah, in the case of our clients. We're working with
a lot of real estate teams, procurement teams for sure,
Marketing communications teams are really essential because these are the
folks that are disseminating this important content about circularity, about
waste reduction, about you know, all these programs we do.
And then of course the cleaning teams as well. The
(07:02):
cleaning teams are the folks that touch the waste every
day that goes through the space, and really we call
them our eyes and ears on the ground. They are
responsible for properly sorting the materials and so they play
a key role as well. I would love to see
more directors of sustainability. I think a lot of organizations
now do have a sustainability role specifically, but not enough.
(07:24):
We still have a long ways to go to see
every large corporation or every medium sized corporation have a
sustainability you know, have one person in charge of sustainability.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
So that raises a question about whether or not you
see it. And during commitment, in the face of Trump
round two, we're seeing a lot of companies pull back
on a variety of types of commitments. Do you think
that this is a practice that is still going to
continue to propagate and grow.
Speaker 2 (07:53):
I do I think that companies realize that it's there,
you know, really so much of this work lies in
their hands and is their responsibility, even in the face
of a federal government that doesn't support this work. I
think that we're going to learn a lot over the
next three to four weeks right on where we really
stand with all that. So I think it's early to say,
but I personally haven't seen a lot of corporations stepping
(08:15):
back on their corporate sustainability and ESG commitments. So I
remain positive that the private sector knows that, you know,
the responsibility really lies in their hands, as well as
more in the state and local municipalities. I think mayors
and governors also take on a big role here and
can keep this work going again, even during a federal
(08:37):
government that is not supportive of sustainability initiatives.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
So do you find that one of the big challenges
is just getting the organization to understand the business case
for sustainability. For lack of a better phrase, I mean,
how do you make that clear to someone that is
not simply going to be more profitable, but that it
is going to create in a resilient marketplace. That they
(09:02):
can continue to operate in.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
Yes, that's a great question because many companies are not
driven by reducing environmental footprint alone. As we both know. Yes,
we often need to make the business case for sustainability,
but it's a much easier case to make these days
because companies doing this work reaps so many benefits, including
things like being more desirable to younger workers. I think
younger workers in the workforce are demanding these things. They
(09:25):
want to see a bona fide recycling program, they want
to see composting programs, they want to see a thought
process sustainability goals, and they will select their future job
based on some of these metrics. Shareholder approval certainly important.
We see that the financial markets are having more and
more opportunities where you can invest sustainably, so they are
demanding that upon corporations marketing communication opportunities. I think this
(09:49):
is certainly a pr opportunity. You know, if you are
if your company is doing meaningful things and sustainability, you
should be talking about it. You should be putting it
on your social media channels, you know, and and promoting
the fact that you're doing that, and of course it
benefits the bottom line through cost savings. So for example,
one private schooly work with switched to reusables in the
cafeteria and they're saving thousands of dollars per month on
(10:12):
not having to buy those disposables, even with a little
additional cost of labor and dishwashing. And so there's and
that's just one example of so many on where we
can save money. So we see that many companies are
now putting out sustainability reports and or doing ESG. Of course,
the environmental social governance planning tackling your waste problem is
essential if you're committed to reducing your environmental footprint and
(10:34):
reporting on ESG. And just one other thing I'll say
about that is that people don't realize that waste is
a climate issue. As as I was saying before about
the circular circularity. The creation of new version materials and
products emits a tremendous amount of greenhouse gas emissions. Transporting
those products and materials uses a tremendous amount of green
house gas emissions. And landfilling and incinerating those materials after
(10:57):
they are used, oftentimes just use just one also emits
a tremendous amount of methane and other ghds. So most
people and companies care about climate change today. So when
we make the climate connection, a light bulb goes off
in their heads and they realize that they must do
this work to help the climate and also to remain
competitive since most of their competitors are doing this work
(11:18):
as well. Well.
Speaker 1 (11:19):
Let's use RXR, the commercial real estate company that you
mentioned a moment ago, as an example. I was reading
the case study on your site, and it strikes me
that it's a community effort, even though it's a company
at the center of that community that owns the seventeen
million square feet of property, but they have to get
the tenants involved, the cleaning teams. As you talked about,
what are the organizations outside that world that you suggest
(11:43):
somebody start exploring new relationships with, like Waste Hollers for instance.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Yeah, partnerships are absolutely essential to make this work, of course,
because what are we doing with the waste and what
are we doing with these materials that we want to
be recycling and stuff like that. So there's a whole
slew of partners that involved. Yeah, Waste Hollers is a
huge one. I mean in the New York market, some
of the names are consistent with the names you might
hear across the country, like a Waste Connections, and then
(12:09):
a lot of them are more regional to the New
York space, which is like an Action Environmental, Royal Waste
and some of these other haulers. But they're only one
piece of the puzzle. There's a huge network of people
that's also food donation, furniture donation, specialty recycling. The category
of specialty recycling is all those other things that can't
(12:29):
be recycled in your regular cycling then, but we are
recycling them for clients, and that's things like coffee pods, batteries, electronics,
you know, bulk materials that might be like bulky metal,
bulky plastic, and so there's a whole big category where
we rely on partners to come collect these materials to
again keep them in that loop.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
Does that mean that it really is important to engage
somebody externally to help you forge that network of relationships
or is that something that I company and increasingly can
start to explore itself.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
I think companies that are up for it again from
what I've seen, if you have at least a couple
of full time folks working on this effort, like a
director of sustainability along with at least maybe one or
two staff members. I think you could pull that off
and do it yourself. What we see is challenging, and
particularly in environments like a school environment or a nonprofit institution,
(13:26):
is you'll have one person who like half their duty
is to be the sustainability person, and that person is
completely frazzled, right, And it's just it's a full time job.
It really is a full time job. So I don't
recommend that companies take this on on their own unless
they have at least one full time person and ideally
several full time people focus on this because it is
(13:46):
I can tell you I do this day and day out,
and it is certainly a full time job. With the
team of you know, I have my team five people
plus another fifteen wasteoutit contractors that are highly trained, and
so all in all, we have about twenty people working
on this effort, in addition to all our partners that
we work with.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
Now, you write and talk a lot about individual decisions
that somebody can make, but getting the customer involved in
this network and giving them actions that they can take
that extend the effort of the company at the center
of whatever circular economy we're talking about is really important.
What's your advice to an individual who wants to make
a difference, whether it's with their commercial real estate landlord
(14:27):
or the retailer that they chop with on a regular basis,
what should they be telling them they want?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Yeah, I think I can think consumers do need to
speak up more and be the squeaky wheel. I think
it's super important. I'm a squeaky wheel and I certainly
subscribe to that. Yeah. When it comes to your use
that you asked about the example of like a tenant
in a real estate space, I think definitely speak up.
Go and talk to your property manager or your assistant
property manager, or your janitorial team, whoever you have that
(14:56):
relationship with in the building, and ask them, what are
our programs? What are we doing for cycling? Are you
going to be starting a composting program? Are you specialty
recycling anything? Are you making an effort to you know,
when there are bulk materials to separate out recyclables, you know,
ask those questions and continue to ask those questions, and
you'll see that things will start to change because these
(15:17):
are you know, property managers in that in that case.
In this in this example, I should say, are really
care about what their tenants think? And also we know
there's been a bit of a downturn in the commercial
real estate industry, and so they want to keep their
tenants happy, trust me. And then in the case of
just like a typical consumer, you know, one example I
think is a well, I shouldn't say one example. Many
(15:40):
big brands nowadays are asking more of their consumers as
far as what they need to be doing. One example
of this, I think is like all the compostable products
that are on the market today, such as I'm not
just talking about compostable plates and cups. I'm also talking
about you know, you could have a lip bloss pape
wrapped in paper which is supposedly compostable. But guess what.
(16:02):
The onus is then on the consumer to participate in
that to do the right thing. That item needs to
be composted. Many people don't have access to composting programs,
or even if they do have access to it, they
might not be aware of it, they might not have
to do it, might not know how to do it correctly.
And so I think companies are asking more and more
of consumers and in turn need to educate their consumers
(16:24):
better on how they can participate to make the right
choices for those products as far as being able to
divert them.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
This raises an interesting extension of that question because you
already called out the fact, for instance, that commercial real
estate is already struggling, and so they're trying to keep
their vendors. Cities are going through really significant transformations right
now because in the wake of the pandemic, people are
not going to town to work anymore. What are you
(16:51):
telling your clients about the opportunity to reconfigure their space
to do more of these things in addition to simply
being profitable. Is this an opportunity to rethink the urban
center as a sustainable environment.
Speaker 2 (17:06):
Yeah, I absolutely think so. I would see. I would
say that most of our clients are actually requiring their
employees to return to work, and this is across the
country and in typically in cities, but in most cases
four days a week you know, is more typical. Now
people are largely back in the office, and waste generation
has for the most part gone back to pre COVID levels.
(17:27):
So I think in those cases we're already seeing that,
you know, waste is up and maybe there isn't as
much opportunity to restack that space. But in cases where
you know, there are a lot of commercial owners that
are thinking of converting buildings, for example, to residential buildings,
I think that's a tremendous opportunity and that's something my
business partner I want to take advantage of to, you know,
talk to these owners about how they can set up
(17:50):
their buildings for twenty first century zero waste and circularity.
And that is something that we do. And in that case,
we're coming in and we're looking at infrastructure in the building.
Let's we always we always feel that, you know, we
get involved in projects, very early development projects that so
much of that space gets grabbed for other things and
there just isn't space left for these zero waste programs
(18:11):
and circularity that we want to do, and we really
need a significant amount of space. In many cases, you
need a lot of storage space. You'll need different categories
of bins to be able to separate into so many
different categories. You'll need really good infrastructure like maybe a
cardboard bailer, a plastics bailer, maybe compactors for different larger streams.
You know, you also want to be thinking about infrastructure
(18:32):
throughout the buildings, such as water bottle refillers. Also, we're
big proponents of switching from paper towels to air hand dryers,
and I'm talking about modern, super efficient air hand dryers
where they're really not using a lot more energy. So
there's so much you can do in a building to
make it ready for twenty first century zero waste programming,
and we do hope to get some of that work
(18:52):
from this reset, if you will. This post COVID reset.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
Going to be an interesting time for sure, and I
want to turn to what somehow of you writing and
other topics, but we're going to take a quick commercial break.
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Now, let's get back to the discussion with Sarah Curry Halpern.
She's co founder of Thinks Zero. It's a sustainability consultancy
that helps businesses, institutions, and individuals reduce waste. Sarah, I
want to talk about some of your recent writing, and
you've written extensively about sustainable tourism and you've discussed ways
to reduce travel related waste. What's your practical advice for
a traveler who wants to make a positive impact where
(19:32):
they go. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Absolutely, So before you travel, definitely do some research on
the hotels or resorts you're considering visiting. Many of them
will include a link to their sustainability plans or commitments
at the very bottom of the website. This is something
I always look for. You can also visit their awards
page to see if they've won any awards related or
accolades related to sustainability. Checking on ecohotels dot com is
a great place to start if you're just sort of
(19:54):
starting this ecotourism journey. There you can book hotels and
resorts around the world that have received some kind of
sustainability certification, so that's a fantastic easy place to start. Also,
don't be afraid again to be the squeaky wheel. I
travel a lot and often ask to speak to a
manager or leave a note for the manager with feedback
about their sustainability efforts and changes they can make to
(20:16):
do more. I will ask if they compost and recycle.
I will check to see if they've switched to repellable
pumps in the bathroom for shampoo, soapen conditioner. If they're
still using disposables, I'll comment to the manager that my
family would appreciate making this switch. I always check online
to find out if the tap water is safe to drink.
That's a huge one. Think about it when you travel somewhere.
If you're relying on plastic water bottles for that entire trip,
(20:39):
that's going to be If you're a big water drinker
like me, that's going to be maybe eight up to
eight bottles of water a day. Times however, many days
you're there, that's a tremendous amount of plastic waste. Most
places in the US have sophisticated water purification and infrastructure,
and the water is safe to drink. It's not always
the case internationally, of course. If the tap water is
safe to drink, I'll ask if they sorry. If the
(20:59):
tap water is un safe to drink, I'll ask if
they purify the water in the kitchen. I've traveled to
places like Nicaragua, India and elsewhere where. If it's a
decent hotel, they will actually purify the water in the kitchen,
and that way, at least part of your water can
be coming from a tap and not having to be
coming from water bottles for the entire trip. I think
(21:19):
another thing is also your own personal decisions that you
make going on that trip. I highly recommend bring walter,
bring your own refillable water bottle, bring your own coffee cup,
and bring your own utensils. And you'd be amazed to
see how much waste this cuts down on an average trip.
Is particularly if you're traveling around Europe for a week,
you're traveling around South America for a week. Just having
(21:42):
these three items, just a little kit of utensils, a
small refillable coffee cup, and a small water bottle will
cut down on I would say, you know, at least
fifty percent of your waist during that time. And if
you have a little extra space, maybe bring a little
stackable container for food leftovers as well. I try to
all always remember to bring my little stackable food leftover container,
(22:04):
not only when I travel, but also when I go
to restaurants right in my own hometown of Older Colorado.
And so these are some of my kind of key
starting points as far as thinking more sustainably about tourism
and what you can do on the road as well.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
One of the things you mentioned, well, two of the
things certifications is one, but I want to put that
aside for a moment. You mentioned awards and accolades. How
do you judge whether or not awards and accolades are
actually genuine or whether they are manufactured? Do you have
any tips for folks about that?
Speaker 2 (22:32):
Yeah, I would check the Global Sustainable Tourism Council. I
often visit their website and they have listed their most
of the accolades that are out there for ecotourism. Yeah,
so I would definitely start there. They also are a
great resource for just being an eco conscious traveler. There
you can find both certified sustainable accommodations as well as
(22:54):
certified sustainable destinations, and so I really think that's a
great place to start. That's where I go most of
the time when I'm looking up an organization.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
What are examples of sustainable destinations that you can point
to and say without a doubt, that's a great place
to go.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
Absolutely. So. You can read more on my blog at
think zerollc dot com forward slash blog. In my blog
post what does Sustainable Tourism look Like? There, I talk
about Singapore being the first entire country to be certified
by the Global Sustainable Tourism Council in twenty twenty three.
So it achieved this by pursuing its ambitious Green Plan
twenty thirty, which is responsible for the development of infrastructure
(23:31):
and conservation projects that are attractive and beneficial to tourists
and locals alike, such as building more public transit, reducing waste,
and increasing parkland by fifty percent. I was particularly impressed
here because, unlike so many other sustainability targets, they've done
so much of this work three twenty thirty. They're not
waiting for twenty thirty, so much of it has already done.
(23:52):
And if you look, it's absolutely beautiful parkland that I
can see. I can see how it's benefiting both tourists
and locals, So I think that's really fantastic. I certainly
want to go to go visit Singapore soon because of
everything that they're doing. I also love what Copenhagen is
doing with their Cope and Pay. This is a program
designed to reward visitors for climate friendly actions. So participants
(24:12):
could earn museum tickets, boat rentals, and free drinks and
meals at restaurants by collecting trash, taking public transit, or
riding a bike. And I think this is a This
is really brilliant because we know it thinks zero that
incentivizing people to do eco friendly behaviors with rewards really works,
primarily because people love gamification and they especially love to
(24:32):
save money.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
Why do you think that American cities haven't embraced this?
And is there an American city? Maybe Washington, DC, because
it's the destination for folks who care about this country
to embrace this model and start to try to create
those internal incentives as well. What do we need to
rethink about our cities based on your views on sustainable travel?
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I think we need to learn from some of these
other cities. I don't see enough of this in the US.
I think that you know, things like cope and pay
like programs designed to reward visitors for climate friendly actions
is absolutely fantastic, and we should see more of this
in our cities. You know. Perhaps part of it is
that we're bogged down with so many other issues in
our cities, you know. Of course, I think there's a
lot of things at play here, but I would love
(25:18):
to see this coming to cities like Washington, d C,
New York City and other cities around our country.
Speaker 1 (25:25):
So let's change topic a bit. You've written about your
enthusiasm for Artificial intelligence in waste stream management. How do
you see AI revolutionizing waste management over the course of
the next decade.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I think, like so many other industries, AI is a
tool that can help make waste management and waste reduction
diversion more efficient. AI is definitely shaking up the waste field.
Everything from AI powered robots sorting waste at mirphs or
material recovery facilities which is a fancy name for recycling centers,
to AI systems monitoring landfills and patching up methane leaks
or helping prevent lead hate runoff. I think there's a
(26:01):
lot more coming to I think smart bins. You know,
so many other technologies can help change behaviors, so I
think we're going to see a lot MOREAI coming in
the waste industry. But the downsides are enormous as well.
AI has a huge carbon footprint and also uses a
frightening amount of fresh water to cool data centers, so
I have my concerns as well.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
I do know that there's a particularly data center cool
in that there were recirculation initiative going on across the industry,
But do you see in the long term AI's benefits
the environmental benefits outweighing the impact that you just described.
Speaker 2 (26:37):
I think it's possible, but we'll need more data to
make this determination. For now, I'm cautiously optimistic about AI's
impact on the waste industry, but I am using it
sparingly due to the again, the enormous demands it has
on our natural resources, both energy and water. For example,
freshwater evaporation related to AI energy needs is a rapidly
growing problem. Last year, researchers found that global AI demand
(27:00):
account for four point two to six point six billion
cubic meters of water withdrawal in twenty twenty seven. If
AI keeps growing at the same rate every year. And
so I'm pleased to hear that data center groups and
companies are trying to do something about this to minimize
their environmental impact. But I definitely have my concerns.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
One of the other questions about AI is, for instance,
Google is doing some really interesting work with high speed sorting.
You can separate the material, But one of the implicit
I guess it's the best way to describe it as
biases built into that is that it's still a take
make waste kind of a solution than a circular solution
and aimed at sorting out the material that you can
(27:43):
easily recycle versus all of that specialized material that you
were talking about before. Are we encouraging through the application
of AI in that way further wasteful consumption? And have
you thought about how you could take it and flip
it around to give feedback to say, you know, you
produce a lot of stuff that can't be reused. What
(28:04):
can we do with AI to start to teach us
about what we're doing to ourselves.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
Yeah, I would look at AI for other applications and
that's where I would get excited with AI for circularity.
I'm sure there's already thought about this, but I think,
for example, AI could be processing things like clothing and shoes.
I recently wrote about shoes. Shoes is a tremendous problem
on planet Earth. It's shocking the number of shoes that
(28:29):
are produced and thrown away every year. It's in the billions.
I think if AI could be harnessed to go through
very large piles of textiles, apparel, shoes to sort out,
you know, your different categories of you know, in perfect condition,
fully sellable from Okay, this is donatable, but it wouldn't
(28:51):
be sellable, and then you know this is really has
to be this is end of life. But how can
we maybe recycle these materials? I think that could go
along way and also prevent that issue you were talking
about of AI being used just to continue our waste
problem and encourage more wasteful consumption.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
If you step back and you look at the big picture,
what do you think the most impactful change or changes
that we could put into practice globally might be. I'm
curious about this with everybody from a variety of perspectives,
because we're only going to find the solution when many
of us see the same thing.
Speaker 2 (29:27):
That's right. Unfortunately, with the downturn in the fossil fuels industry,
largely due to renewable energy but also just less demand globally,
many fossil fuel companies have switched their focus to plastic
production from fossil fuels as a means to increase profits.
This is highly concerning because the planet is already bombarded
with way too much plastic filling our land, waterways, and
even our bodies as we know. I believe we need
(29:49):
to figure out how to convince fossil fuel companies and
other plastics producers to turn off the plastics faucet, as
I like to call it, and this is the rampant
production of platastics, particularly single use plastics. Because there's never
going to be enough reduce, reuse, recycle to fix the
global plastic and waste crisis. We need to stop the
(30:11):
problem at its source. This is something I'm thinking a
lot about.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
What's the business case for a petroleum manufacturer to do that?
I mean, they just did one hundred and fifty years.
Please burn our stuff so we can tell you more
of it. How do they need to rethink their business?
What would you do with the remaining petroleum reserves to
make it worth their while?
Speaker 2 (30:33):
I would leave them in the ground. I think they
belong in the ground. Right We know that they are
derived from dinosaurs and other ancestors, and I think they
belong in the ground. I think they need to shift
their business model to business model to renewables, and I
do see that happening, and I am excited to see
that some of them are thinking big about renewables and
getting into the renewable space. I really think that where
(30:54):
that's that's where it's at. Let's leave those fossil fuels
right where they originally are and where they belong, because
the moment we take them out, we know that there's
a ton of emissions involved in that process and in
the usage of fossil fuels, So I don't think they
have any place being used on planet Earth at this time.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
Sarah, thank you so much for your time today. How
can folks follow your work and keep up on your ideas?
Speaker 2 (31:17):
Yeah? Absolutely, they can find me on LinkedIn. Just type
in my name Sarah Curry Hyphen Halpern, or check out
our website and blog at think zerollc dot com forward
slash blog. I write about at least once a month,
if not twice a month, about all issues related to
waste and sustainability.
Speaker 1 (31:34):
Thank you, Thank you very much. I have a great afternoon.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
Thanks so much much. You too.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
You've been listening to a conversation with think zero LLC
co founder Sarah Curry Halpern, who writes about sustainable travel,
waste management, and other issues related to reducing business and
individual environmental impacts at think zero llc dot com. That's
think zero zero LLLC all one word, no space, no dash,
(32:04):
think zero llc dot com And once you get to
the site, click on the blog link and the menu
to find her latest postings. Until carbon neutral aviation and
rail fuels are realized at scale, truly sustainable travel lies
somewhere in the future, but stereos tips are important to
keep in mind to reduce your impact when you're on
the ground. Taking a water bottle, reusable utensils and coffee
(32:26):
cup can eliminate the single use stuff you'll find at
many hotels and debt and resorts. And do take time
to check out ecohotels dot com. That's all one word,
no space, no dash, ecohotels dot com and the Global
Sustainable Tourism Councils guidance, which you can find at GST Council.
That's all one word, no space, no dash again Gstcouncil
(32:48):
dot org. And once you get there, look for the
four Travelers Guidance. You'll find insights that can pierce the
veil of greenwashing by travel marketers. With the information you
find on both those sites, and that's hard to do,
so take the time to do it. You'll have a
better trip and a better outcome for the planet. Now,
let's take a moment to think about AI, which could
consume up to ten percent of electricity generated by the
(33:11):
end of this decade. According to several studies, Artificial intelligence
can be a powerful tool, but many companies are focused
on delivering greater consumer convenience using the technology. Finding your
favorite social video or saving the effort involved in changing
the channel on your TV are not worthwhile applications of
something that could be applied to, for example, developing fire
(33:34):
suppression materials that are free of the toxins and heavy
metals being dumped in waves of red on the cities
in southern California in the midst of this year's wildfires.
We can and we'll use AI to invent new sustainable materials,
sort reusable materials out of the watstream, and much more.
But we should not see every question posed by humans,
like what's on TV tonight as a nail for the
(33:56):
AI hammer to resolve. We can make a more judicious
use of AI than we did with, say, petroleum during
the Industrial age. Let's think about it before we just
start using it for everything. And you can change the
dialogue by sharing sustainability in your ear with your friends
and family. We've got more than five hundred shows to
choose from and writing review on your favorite podcast platform
(34:18):
will help your neighbors find us. Please take the time.
You are the amplifier that can spread more ideas to
create less waste. Tell your friends, family, and coworkers, even
the people you meet on the street that they can
find sustainability in your Ear on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Audible,
or whatever purveyor of podcast goodness that they prefer. Thank you,
(34:39):
folks for your support. I'm Mitch Ratcliffe. This is sustainability
in your Ear and we will be back with another
Innovator interviews soon. In the meantime, folks, take care of yourself,
take care of one another, and let's all take care
of this beautiful planet of ours. Have a green day.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
It's pas
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