Episode 260: An Evening with Sunny Pang - The Trilogy - Headshot

Joining the show to discuss Headshot (2016), actor and choreographer, Sunny Pang.
Headshot: A man suffering from amnesia washes ashore and a young doctor nurses him back to health. His past resurfaces to haunt them both in violent fashion.
Starring Iko Uwais, Sunny Pang, Chelsea Islan, Very Tri Yulisman, Julie Estelle, Ario Bayu, Zack Lee, and more.
Featuring The Uwais Stunt Team
Action Direction by Timo Tjahjanto
Edited by Arifin Cu'unk
Music by Aria Prayogi and Fajar Yuskemal
Cinematography by Yunus Pasolang
Directed by Kimo Stamboel and Timo Tjahjanto

Episode Transcript

(00:40):
All right, ellis Sendhima back anotherdish. How are we doing out there?
Good? Great Gray yand Yan wonderfulas you see on your screen your
dial. However, you are choosingto join us today. I know the
cast and crew of the film appreciateyou. What the hell happened to my
lighting in the last five seconds?So well? Anyway, okay? Head

(01:00):
Shot. Headshot came out in twentysixteen, starring Eko Wise, Sonny Pang,
Chelsea Islam, Julia stell Ario Bayou, with appearances from I know I'm
gonna butcher this very tree, Julusman. I don't know. My guest will
correct me once he gets on herein a second exactly. We got editing
by Arifencik. We got music byAria Progi pri pray Yogi, which he

(01:23):
also did the Raid one in twowith some help from Fajar Yukizma Yukizmo.
Art direction from ikbal Marjano. Iknow I'm ruining every single name of this
cinematographer was Eunice Pazzolan. Action directionby Timo Tayanto, written by Timo Tianto

(01:44):
Tayanto and directed by Chemo Stumble andTimo Tayanto, So what is Headshot?
Headshot is a man. He's sufferingfrom amnesia and he washes ashore and a
young doctor nurses him back to health. His past the surfaces to haunt him
or haunt them, both actually inviolent fashion. So what I have to

(02:07):
say about this. I was readinga couple of the reviews for Headshot,
specific a couple critic reviews. Everybodykept comparing it to The Raid. I
gotta be honest with you, Youguys need to watch more movies. Just
because the same style of martial artsis used within a film doesn't make it
the same movie. In fact,there are moments of this film, whether

(02:30):
it be the acting or the story, that I found to be a little
bit more emotional than The Raid.And that's a testament to just how Timo
leaves no stone unturned when he's doinga film, and that's why he's one
of my favorite filmmakers working today.So I just found this movie so well
done, from the script to thestory, to the acting to the fight

(02:51):
sequences. Just eliminate elite filmmaking.You know, the pre production that went
into this. It shows, itshows that you just can't go in half
cocked with this sort of thing,So watch more movies because just because you
see the same style of martial arts, it's not the rate. Okay.
Anyway, you guys and gals knowthat I can't stand doing this show alone.

(03:12):
Hate it, can't stand it unlessI have somebody interesting to talk to.
And actually, as I was thinkingabout it, this man who is
one of my favorite people on theplanet. He and I actually haven't been
on the MIC together in over fouryears, and for me, it doesn't
even feel like that. I talkedto this man off air, formed a
relationship with him off air, soit doesn't feel like that. But when
I saw that he hasn't been onthe show since April of twenty, I

(03:37):
was like, come on, wegot to get him on. And I
actually was watching his ig Live storytwo three weeks back, and a lot
of his followers had mentioned this filmover and over, and I just thought,
you know what, let's see ifhe wants to come on the show
and talk about it. So todayI don't have to do this show alone.

(04:00):
Joining the show for the trilogy.For the trilogy, Sonny, pang,
ladies and gentlemen, I sir,you're one of my favorite people on
the planet. A brother that Ijust I it is. It is crazy
how you and I have kept intouch over the years, sir, Thank
you so much for coming on theshow again. Thank you for having me

(04:23):
man. So how's everything going?So another thing I need to add is,
like you're talking about craziness and everything. You know, it doesn't compare
to Tamo's hits because it's all aboutcraziness, you know, and both of
them have this very great idea.And I can't think this two man enough
for letting me being appeared on themovie yeah with Eco another crazy nutcase.

(04:48):
Yeah, I mean, and II really am kind of shocked that all
of you, Like I was justtelling this to my girlfriend the O night.
You guys need to be staples inAmerican film already. And I know,
like you guys are huge across thease, but it doesn't it doesn't make
sense to me how Timo isn't workingregularly, how you aren't working regularly,

(05:13):
because I I think with the phrasethat I used to my girlfriend yesterday was
every time you set foot on screen, my man, there is a presence,
you know what I'm saying, Likeyou don't even need to be saying
anything to feel that presence. SoI just wanted to tell you, man,
we gotta get you. We gottaget you over here on the RAG.

(05:35):
Yeah, I think that the probablyyou'll be seeing me pretty soon.
I just sign up for a coupleof projects overseas unfortunately not but in the
US. And the one project thatI think that you guys should be looking
out for is Havoc is going tobe released. I think that over the
end of this year, maybe earlynext year. It's been like what two

(05:56):
years now, Yes, yes,it's been so long. Yeah, yeah,
yeah, it's all about you know, what's been happening around the world
as strikes and so on. That'swhat I understand why. So, yeah,
that was one hell of a film. I can tell you that I've
been judging from what I've seen thefoodage and while I'm on set, it's
crazy. Man. Everybody put upthe A game on this movie, trust

(06:18):
me. And I love that Garethis taking his time because I know that
he has been going into the editingroom almost you know, just like a
like a soldier in and out ofthe editing room. And I love that.
I think nowadays, and maybe youcan agree or not, we are
just kind of cranking out stuff justto have content. It feels so cliche

(06:41):
to say, but I feel like, oh, because you can shoot a
movie, you know, on ashoe string budget, or you can release
it on Netflix or Hulu or whatever, you're not taking the time to make
it well that you're just trying toget it out there so that people see
your stuff and you don't give ashit about the finished project. And and
it shows, and it shows.Yeah, definitely, he spends more time

(07:04):
on his entitic room, and it'svery very precise of what he really wants.
And even while during the directing byhim, he knows exactly what he
wants, he probably wants you toredo it again because maybe he's just looking
for that right spot where you needto where he needs to feel the gaps
of like that's the spot you needto be at, and that's how he

(07:27):
that's that's how the way he directs, and that's how detailed it is.
So sometimes you can go through likemaybe five to seven takes, maybe somebody
gets shot in the face or theirhands, maybe gets stabbed. Maybe the
reaction wasn't good, Maybe the cameraand God need to move slow to the
right or the left, you know, all these kind of details is very
important of course in terms of likeanything, you know, you really spend

(07:49):
time with it. You go backmany many times sometimes just like being an
actor as well, you need torun through your lines inside your head.
But I mean that sometimes I don'tknow what what what about the rest of
the actors, but I spend timewith the script sometimes. You know,
when when you really love you loveacting or really love the script, you
just like to spend time with yourcharacters and read other characters what you're what

(08:11):
are the respond you need to giveinto or how would my character react?
You know, those kind of detailedthings that you need to look a look
into. So by what you justsaid that people are not spending enough time,
that's correct because right now there's alot of fast food restaurant, but
nobody actually wanted to cook a propermeal, you know what I mean.

(08:33):
Of course, you have McDonald's andthose food are great ones. In the
while, they have fun, it'sall good. But remember this though,
really spend time with cooking. Thetaste will be a lot more better than
you expected. You know, ittakes it takes a while to understand that
for people to understand that because everythingis so easily access through social media,

(08:54):
like you know, you just swipehTikTok's Instagram whatever it is, or maybe
in YouTube. There's a lot ofcontent out there, but what what what
content? Is it really good?Right? You know, depending on how
the we each consume the content.But it turns out to be like everybody's
having this red race about who's goingto get there first. To be honest

(09:15):
with you, getting first is notgoing to be. But getting people to
remember you and really enjoy your yourprojects or your your product. It's more
important because everything voiced out, thestorytelling, actions, good cinema, photography,
good actors, good artists, andall the crewe as well. So
that's my take on it. Youknow, you just remind me I I

(09:37):
I came into this interview unprepared,but you know what, sir, I'm
going to be prepared for you.This should have been on the whole time.
The whole time, this should havebeen on, And I thought,
you know what I look like.I look like a fool. So we
got to kick it a little bitthere. We gotta have a nice little
kick Spartan my ronan action team hathere. So I mean I guess to

(10:01):
the point of the Ronan Action teambefore we get into headshot, like how
are you man like? Like youpersonally not not the business side of Sonny
Pang, the you know, thefamily, how are you? How's the
stunt team? Like, I know, I see you guys working all the
fucking time, So how are you, sir? Well, we we are

(10:24):
just coming out from some really deepshit. I mean not really deep shit.
Well, I mean me and myteam we just closed down a studio
because we are not really like whathe used to be having a lot of
jobs because it was a period oftime everything's go quiet, right, But
then again, you know, wetry to survive. I try to,
like you know, try to holdon to it, but sometimes realistically you

(10:48):
need to understand that maybe the studiois not necessarily we need to close it
down. I discussed with the boys. We need to close it down,
not because we're not capable of doingthe job, but because there's no demand,
right and because of like we justcame up from you know, COVID
and so on. But during COVIDapparently that we got a bit of more
jobs. But right after when COVIDis nearly to the end and everything seems

(11:11):
to be a little bit slower andslower and slower. Right, So we
talked, I mean I myself talkedto the team. I said that we
need to close the studio down becausethey increased the rent over twenty five percent.
I was just like, that's nonsense, man, that's nonsense, right.
So I went off went over tothe landlord and discussed another terms to

(11:33):
it. Right, you say,look, we just signed them for two
years, right, and straight away, right after two years, you just
hit me with a twenty five percentrace. That's that's that's that's that's not
gonna cut it, man, becauseright now everything running very slow, and
you increase the price, we arenot doing very well. Or which you
give. I mean, maybe youjust give me about maybe a five percent

(11:56):
that probably we can make it,make it to the end, you know.
But they just refuse to budget andtwenty five percent. I said,
nah, my cut is down.Forget it. I'm gonna pull the plug.
So which we did. But thenagain the guys who was kind of
a little bit sad without our ownplace, But it's all good men.
It's not that we're completely off theboard, but it's just that we're just

(12:16):
taking a break. But I wonder, I wonder if like the release.
So I was thinking about this,and you can, by all means tell
me this is a stupid thought,but in my head, in my head
after the release of The Fall Guy, I kind of thought we were going
to start trending more towards this appreciationfor stunt teams around the world. So

(12:41):
hearing that you're you know, gettingcharged twenty five percent extra than you normally
would, how are you supposed topay your guys, It's like I kind
of thought we were gonna see aresurgence, this new appreciation for stunt men
that we have been kind of justignoring for decades. You know, well,
you know in uh in in mycountries, of the whole new different

(13:05):
ball game. I mean that whenwhen you are in my position right now
where where I am, it's goingto be a little bit disappointing of what
the whole ecosystem is like. Inthe US, there is a whole ecosystem
is very different from from any country. You have your your unions to look
after you, you have your allyour pay schemes and all the way that
how money is to be paid orno, and you know insurance and so

(13:28):
on. But for us is it'srather different because they will look for the
production company will look for some somebodywho is cheap. Right, whether do
you believe or not, somebody actuallycharged a stunt coordinated job for three hundred
dollars a day. Wait, waitlittle listen, listen. And with all

(13:54):
that being said, it's that theywill get their job and then when they
go on set, they will setup the stunt numbers as accordingly on that
day itself. Maybe you need toget stubbed. They I don't need to
get stepped, No pre preparation,nothing right. I even heard that the
guy WHOLECCHI jumped out from the caras the car is moving probably about probably

(14:18):
about forty kometers per hours, andthe guy jumped down and roll on the
street six times. Listen to thissix times? Right, only get about
one hundred and fifty dollars. Calmon, dude, Oh yeah, yeah
yeah. And you guys in myworld, and you guys aren't protected like

(14:39):
the US, like you guys aretaking actual there's no and correct me if
I'm wrong. You guys don't havethe level of insurance that we do here
right, like on my team hasOkay, yeah, yeah, my team
has it because I look after myteam, and I charge he quite quite
a high fee because I appreciate myboys, right how the way they work

(15:01):
and train every weekend, right dayand day they are with therey there.
Some some of them are actually parttime, but they still come come back
for training every Saturday, four hoursunder the grind, right, and I'm
telling you it's all the sweat andtears. No such thing as days off
of them, no, because that'show the way I was being brought up,
and that's how the way they're goingto continue the good work. Right.

(15:22):
So of course sometimes we slack alittle bit. Maybe it just okay,
maybe today everybody try it. Sowe just cut up like two hours
and then we just do fight choreography. Maybe try to do something else,
try to invent something that we wewe we we we always wanted to do
and think about what what dos anddon'ts. But for that being said's right,
I pay my guys slightly a littlebit higher than than the almost Dune

(15:45):
guys over here. Right. It'snot because that I like the money,
but the money them go to me, The money go to them, you
know. So the thing is isthat I look after the there their insurance
policy as well. Each time whenthe productions comes in, I will ask
them do you have insurance coverage?Do you have this? You have that?
I have a lot of high demandsof requests for pre productions, meeting,

(16:07):
uh, meet the props, people, meet, meet every single one,
meet directors at everyone, so tomake sure everybody's taking care of so
when we're doing on set during duringthe actual production, everybody's being looked after.
Everybody knows what they're doing, sonobody, nobody will get injured or
worry that that this this stunt numberis going to be way too dangerous even

(16:29):
for fire as well. Right ifI don't see the winds are not blowing,
it's very dry, what kind ofmaterial, what kind of what kind
of petrol is it? Is itwe're going to use different chemicals, what
kind of fire jil we do doing? And so on? All these things
has to be very very detailed,to be checked, double checked, triple
checked. I don't care what itis right even jumping down into the sea

(16:52):
water. I need to know what'sthe debt, what was the current right
situations? Somebody need go down andsee check the meters and so on,
all these things alike, some people, some of the production people think that
I'm a troublemaker. I'm just wastingtime. You know what, though,
I do think you may you maybe a little trouble maker. There's a

(17:12):
little trouble maker inxiety. Well,so would it be fair to would it
be fair to say that you're kindof like leading the forefront on taking care
of your people in the stunt teamrealm? Would that be fair to say
like you actually give a shit aboutyour people as opposed to just like Nope,

(17:32):
we're gonna give you set minimum andwe're just gonna toss you around and
explode you dude. That's awesome,that's just folks. I told you that
this dude was the man. Itold you before we even got him on
the show that he was the man, and it just a testament to who
he is. Like I said,he will he will DM me randomly just
like hey, how are you?And I'm telling you, I just want

(17:53):
you to know, Sonny American,the Americans that I've had on this film,
they don't do that. They don'tthey don't ever. I don't ever
hear from them. I shouldn't sayall of them, but I would say
most of them I never hear fromafter we do the show, which is
fine, But like you, likeZaire, like all these people that I've
had from other countries on the philiping, like they always are just like

(18:18):
hey, what's up, Like howyou doing? And it's it's just different,
man. And so to wrap upthat whole thing is just I know
you're taking care of your people andthat needs to be respected. Man,
You're a good egg. I tellyou what. So should we do?
Should we do a little head shot? Should we do a little bit of
headshot? Get these people what theywant? Cause, like when I was
watching your ig story, I wasactually kind of surprised at how often this

(18:45):
movie in particular was brought up.Not because it's not you know, the
the Night comes for us or anythinglike that. I think people just resonated
with kind of what I was sayingbefore. This isn't this isn't the raid
like the critics would have you believe. And I was going down and down
and down, and I was gettingoh, I know what I wanted to
ask, you, can we seea film where you don't always die?

(19:11):
Well, I'll try it. I'lltry it, I'll try it. I'll
try maybe because I'm good at it, So you know, probably because of
that. Yeah, well that therewere some somethings that I didn't die,
But then again, you know,it happens then somethings I didn't die,
but I don't get resurrected at thesame time, so might as well just
fucking died. So, so walkme through the first encounter with this script?

(19:40):
How did that? I And Iapologize for the softball questions, but
you know, my my audience,you know, I mean a lot of
them are aspiring filmmakers, so theyare very interested in the details and the
how too, more more so thanlike, I'm not going to ask you
what it was like working with Eco. I don't care, like I like
and it's not and it's nothing againsthim, it's just like, I don't

(20:03):
know, I like asking a littlebit more technical side of questions. So,
so walk me through you getting thisscript? Is there a sit down?
Are you talking with Timo? Issomebody passing the script to you?
How did that go about? Well? Actually, The Night Come for Us
was supposed to be the first onethat we supposed to shoot first. Yeah,

(20:27):
back in two thousand and I thinkthe ending of two thousand and thirteen
of fourteen, a beginning of thetwenty fourteen we supposed to shoot that first.
Well, I went over to Iwent over to Indonesia for I think
good three months, three four monthsfor preparations to do all the fight choreography,

(20:48):
meeting Joe Taslim, getting ready it, you know, going to the
set, look at everything. Butwhat happened was during how I think during
almost coming to to the last monthor last three weeks of the shoot beginning
of shoots. Uh they call it, they call it, they call it
off. You know, gar effEvans was in it. What was in

(21:11):
there was doing the action directorian,and Timo was in it as well,
because Timo actually want me to playthat character, you know, uh chin
wu. So, but what happenedwas some something went wrong and uh uh
garf Evans called me into the office. He told me that he was really
sorry, and things gonna gonna gonnago the other way around, It's not

(21:33):
gonna happen. But what happened wasis that some something went wrong, maybe
the investment or or whatever it is. I'm not too sure. So I
was kind of like, you know, a little bit upset, and but
then again I judge to kick Michael. Well what it is, it is
right, you got to learn howto accept the reality of things. Right.
And Timo called me at the sametime, go up to my to
my apartment and chat with me,apologize to me, saying that whatever you

(21:57):
do next, you'll get me involvedin it. And then after that go
back, go back to Singapore,chill up for like a couple of months,
and Sunny, I've received a phonecall from Timo a sonny, I
got this uh, you know thisproject. I want you to be in
it as well, you know,being the main antagonist called h L.
So he passed on the uh passedthe script to me and I read it.

(22:18):
I said, oh, okay,there's something simple but nice and and
it was all quite quite good.You know, there's this league guy's a
bit mental issues by just full ofyou know, uh oh, I say
Ego himself. So I kind ofliked it. And at the same time,
I fliped to a couple of thingsthat it's going to be very emotional,
because I can feel that when Iread it was just a very emotional

(22:41):
piece. But coming mean said,I think that I understand why Timo wanted
to do that, because tim andChimo wanted to do that because in Indonesia,
well whatever you do, if youget involved with a little bit of
emotions, will you join the crowd. And Chelsea Islam is one of the
top actress, I think to thisday, one of the top actress who

(23:03):
did a lot of drama stuff.So with all these elements, with all
the violence and all the fights,but you need to have that little bit
of emotion journey. So I thinkthat there was a good mix of everything
else because I felt that I feltthat when I read it as well,
that the last bit which your diseaseLam was was looking at Ego Wise was

(23:25):
saying that, you know, changinghis names and so on. That part
actually hits me quite a fair bit. You know. I don't I don't
know how team was gonna shoot it, but when I watched the final project
and I felt that, well,this is really really fantastic. I think
that what draws into people that sometimesalong the way action movie needs to have
the elements of surprise people, whetherbeing horror, whether being emotional comedy,

(23:49):
or maybe maybe some dirty remarks orwhatever you call it. I think those
things that surprise people. It rhymesif you were stays inside there it because
you're bringing to a journey where youcan actually watch it a couple of times,
you still won't get bored about it. Right, let's put it it

(24:10):
put it in one of my favoritemovies in heat Robertino al Pacino, no
matter what it is, right,there is some some part of it.
I love Rabertino where when he seeshis men was being execute no matter what
it is, there's a choice betweenfreedom and taking revenge. But he knows
that he can just go right andscrew everything else and don't come back with

(24:33):
a girlfriend, but he choose revenge. So those kind of those kind of
moments that you liked it, right. I also liked the part where al
Pacino and Robertino sitting down the coffeeshop disgusting. Both are the strong men.
It doesn't show any any weakness towardseach other. So those those moments
are very important. So you livemoment by moments when you read the scrip.

(24:56):
When you read the script, Ithink that there's certain moments that where
you actually draw going to yourself andyou just stay down there. It's just
so wonderful. You rewatch it again, so wonderful. That's what the magic
is. No, Like right now, all the TikTok's and all the world
world whatever out there, TikTok,there is no moment. There is a
beautiful sexy lady with a big kittiesand that's it. You know, game

(25:17):
over, you know, dumb messgetting himself electrocuted for stupid reason. But
those have to be forgotten about it, forget like what a few days later
something comes new. But we're talkingabout moments where you leave and breathe,
those moments, right. I havemy moments in HR as well, those
moments where I got you know,is it going to be a spoiler?

(25:38):
Is going to be a spoiler?Where the where I was planted on the
tree, right, but they're sayinggoodbye and as see, Chelsea's pulling him
away when it's raining. I was. I was in that that shoot for
like one day, but I waswet throughout sixty eight hours, right,
And Timo just tease me a say, hey, don't pee over there man
before we small your pee job,and I'm nuts. I do want to

(26:10):
comment on what you said because Ithink it's true. So first of all,
like when you talk about like tiktoksand snapchat and all that other shit.
I I learned to phrase the otherday that has resonated with me.
It's just electronic dust, you knowwhat I'm saying, Like, there's no
to the point of this piece havingemotional bits in there, Like all you

(26:30):
gotta do is care and pay attention. I would argue that what the East
does better than us consistently across theboard is fuck with our emotions. I
feel like there's always this. It'snot to say that American films don't have
in American action films don't have emotionin it, but to the level that

(26:55):
you guys consistently bring it, there'sno comparison, like even like like you
were saying, when we choose Ishmaelas his name as opposed to Abdi like
it. We may have that inan American film, but I don't think
it tugs on the heartstrings as muchin the way that Timo presented it.

(27:17):
So I do agree that like thisfilm, all you have to do with
Headshot is take a closer look,and there is so much more than you
that you can appreciate as opposed toOh, that fight sequence looks like the
raid and there's a creative way tokill someone. Yes, there is that.
There is creative kills because Timo,Timo's a psychopath. The way that

(27:40):
he comes up with creative kills isjust crazy. So but there's more than
that, if you just take acloser look, and like you were saying,
my audience, what I want youto hear Sonny saying is watch it
again, watch it a third time. You know, I've seen Headshot I
think four times now, and eachtime I've pulled something that I didn't take

(28:02):
a closer look of the first timethrough. And and I think that's a
testament to you know, Timo andChemo's pre production, because I know that
guy doesn't go or both those guysdon't go in there and say all right,
here's an outline of what we mightlike to do. You guys just
kind of add lib the rest.I know that it's not like that on
the set, or if if youwant, you can tell me what is

(28:25):
it like being on set with Timoand Chemo for Headshot? I think Keemo
Temo the more brothers I called him, Well, just give you space to
actually exercise your character, you know. So those those things are very important
it was coming in from I usedto I used to work more on independent

(28:45):
films and more on up films.I learned one or two about emotions.
It's very important that the stillness ofemotions are very important for people to resonate
what you are going through. Openpeople to see what you are going through.
Sometimes we just passing phrase and justbe the big guy. But just

(29:06):
be the hero and that's it.Putting off the cape and that's it.
Without the emotions, it's not gonnawork onto people's head because whether you like
it or not, all the audiencewatching it are looking for something. All
the audience and watching movies are uhare looking for some getaway from it?
Right? Like always have they putit in in a way there, all

(29:32):
the Summari are just normal human being. All the heroes are human beings as
well. Where are those humans elements? You know what I mean? So
those require just very simple subtle tto to translate and let you see that
we are just normal human being,right like the part where I pick up
the phone and say that, soyou remember who you are? Right now?

(29:53):
A d are already here, SoI just like, what the hell?
I just resonate for runers again andI put the surprise look and say,
shit, he's around. You knowthose moments that I just actually tell
myself that give it a give ita good beats and then show the surprise
but not too much. You know, those those kind of like technical stuff

(30:15):
that we we I always do,right, So those beats are very important.
I think that American films does havethose moments. There there is,
but you're getting lesser and lesser becauseall about commercials, right, commercials parts
there or everybody want to see bombsare being bombing here, bombing there,
transformer transformer here, transformer there.That's good, But what the hell are

(30:38):
you transforming from? You know?But where the humans elements? You know
what I mean? You know wherethe Oppacino? Where robertin, where's the
where were the let's it? Youknow it doesn't cut it, you know
they where the humans elements? TheCorens are very good in it because they

(30:59):
understand why people watch, Why whythey have spa investing their time watching a
movie. They want to get awayemotionally too, They want to go into
the dream man. They can staydown and rethink, or maybe make them
think. A lot of the investorswill say, oh, don't let them
think, let them have fun,let them see people getting killed. It's
good. But let's put it thisway, Taken, Yeah, Taken,

(31:22):
I believe you watched that movie andthen from Nowhere, both of them then
Nowhere. I just showed the Manfrom Nowhere to my girlfriend and she absolutely
loved it. And that's another filmwhere that element of heart you could make
the argument is more prominent than theaction that you're seeing. Correct, correct,

(31:44):
you see those moments are very important. They just have to slow things
down the notch and then get thelet the human relationship evolve. And that's
what you need if you If youdon't, there is no humans elements.
That's all about popcorn and getting thetrash people it oh, big booty,
the bouncing him, then that's it. Now, why would I want to

(32:05):
spend that kind of like threty bucksto go and see a bug? Do
these bouce like it's just pretty clickand that's it. Have hundreds of these
bounce in front of me? Correct? I mean that's nonsense, man,
you know, just like, yeah, I'm show you a little bit,
but I don't show you. Butwhy is it all about this? It's
it's nonsense man, it's just bogus, you know. Yeah, that's what

(32:27):
my thoughts is. So in talkingabout, you know, creating that very
humanistic element. Uh, are thereany inspirations that you pulled from for Lee?
Now? Is that you fleshing outyour character on your own or is
that a conversation with Timo and Chemothe Mo brothers sitting you down and going,

(32:49):
this is what we want this characterto be like. So usually that's
how I work. It's just thatI will speak to the directors first and
then asking him what what you thinkof this character looks like? So I
go spend like an hour or sojust to just to understand where the director's
point of view is. And thenfrom there I will just do a bit
of research and watch some films thatI can get get reference from that I

(33:14):
let you say, probably get aball actor or maybe seven you know,
those kind of characters that they aredifferent actors played. So I roughly knows
where the not I should put into, where the points that I should put
into, and how do I actuallydeliver it. It's not the hug yourself.
Let myself know, that's not me. That's some other people. You

(33:34):
know obviously that obviously that when yousee sometimes they're always smiling, and I
make use of the of the makeupmaking me feel uncomfortable. So I feel
uncomfortable at times. And then withthe eyebacks, it's so so, so
so severe. That's good, youknow, I don't mind it. It's
really helping me. And when Iput on the makeup, it's just light
up the smoke and I'll just bethere, you know, just be that

(33:59):
characters as being spoken to with thewith the Darctists, especially the first scene
where I was in the jail cell. Right, so yeah, I mean
that that that one, that thatone I was supposed to make. I
was supposed to be on set aroundat the bout if I'm not wrong,
supposed to be on set at abouteleven or you have to do my makeup

(34:22):
for two hours, right, ButI requested early to go there early,
around in eight, so I domy makeup early. So I went on
to the set where the jail cellare, where they're still shooting parts and
pieces from from the beginning stage fromthe beginning. So I went into the
cell. I took one one packetof cigarettes from one of the crew.

(34:44):
The crew just hey, hey,that's my cigarette. Okay, I'll pay
you back later. So I justpopping smoke and keep smoking and smoking.
Right, So I just there andthen Timo just looking at it. Was
that idiot was a little was alittle dickhead. So so they say they
pointed at the jail sale I wasin it. I was in there.

(35:06):
So the smoke all okay. Sothey discussed the shots and everything, what
they need, what they need,what you need, and talk to me
a bit so I get myself ready. So yeah, that's how I get
myself ready. What a show onscreen? You can see it's a it's
a very evil vipe. Yeah.So I make use of the smoke,
make use of the quiet magiuse ofthe zeo ce to stimulate what what I

(35:28):
should be feeling. And it's nailedso perfectly. In fact, I would
say, so, there's many momentsof yours in this film that I love
so much. But to the pointof you in the smoking, I think
some of my so some of myfavorite actors you included, I think are
some of their best work. Iswhen they're not saying anything at all.

(35:51):
It's all in the in the eyes, you know, because what do they
say? They say, Tom Hanksis the best thinker on screen. I
think I've heard that before, butI think some of the most intimidating moments
with you are when you're saying nothingat all. In fact, one of
my favorite sequences of the film iswhen the police chief or the detective is

(36:14):
essentially talking about how we found Leeout in the open, unguarded, no
one around, and the way thatyou look during that sequence, I'm like,
don't get me wrong, the scorehelps, the beats help, but
you selling that with your eyes.It's one of my favorite sequences of the
movie because I'm sitting there going,holy fuck, Sonny isn't Sonny anymore?

(36:37):
Sonny is Lee right now. There'sno doubt about it. So yeah,
yeah, those moments. I reallyliked it because I really spend time,
like like you know, inside myroom, inside my hotel room, just
to spend time with a character I'mnot as extremely crazy crazy, but now
I think that spending time alone youtend to think a bit better, you

(37:00):
know, being quiet and all byyourself. Of course, he fused like
you'll be the lonely and so on, but I don't view that, you
know. Sometimes they did ask methat, hey, you want to go
outside and party and so on.I'm sorry, another putty time. Sorry,
no titties for me. I gotone deck home waiting for me.
I'm not gonna get my ass forno reason, dude, So go ahead

(37:27):
and go ahead. So yeah,that that's that's that's why I always spend
time alone, you know, bymyself. Yeah, And I think that's
good, just in a really likea good uh thing to have in life.
Like I don't think that we spendenough time alone with our thoughts anymore.
Are our alone time is consumed withphone usage or whatever. And what

(37:52):
you got to understand is if youhave something that you need to focus on
that week, that day, orwhatever, the silence can pay extreme dividends
as opposed to, oh, I'mjust going to scroll for the next forty
five minutes. Well, now youremotions are even more tanked. So I
love to hear that you're just kindof you're not going full Daniel day Lewis,

(38:15):
but you're also taking the time andthe effort to kind of center yourself
with the character of Lee, whichI do find fascinating. And I know
the aspiring filmmakers and actors and actressesthat listen to the show. Take note
at what he's saying. You don'tneed to go make shoes in Ireland or
whatever that Daniel day Lewis or Kablo'sshoes or whatever. You can just you

(38:37):
know, kind of center yourself inyour hotel room and get it done.
So I do know that a fairamount of people on this show, they
are going to want to talk aboutthe choreography a little bit. So I
guess to that point, I seeaction director as Timo Tayanto and the UIs
stunt team. But then me,and if I'm wrong, am I saying

(39:00):
this guy's night a name right?Very very sree Ulessman? Is that right?
Yeah? Correct? Yes? Andyou call him very, we call
him very, just call him veryo Yeah all right, so very very.
I I know also was helped outas a stunt coordinator on this film

(39:22):
too, right, yes, correct, both of them, all of them
actually work together. So my kindof my color grip with Ego was I
did see a little bit, likeyou know, like you know, how
the way they put everything piece together, what kind of environment were they doing?
What kind of are we fighting?So so I learned a little bit

(39:45):
of how the way they work witheach other. So usually how Eco was
says that you know, maybe youcome on and then do your thing,
and then he will try to like, no, we try to do this.
No, he's using Chinese marshall.And then the doctor references. I
said, no, I want Sonnyto do this tiger thing, you know,
so use it as a reference.And then after that, I watch
how the way they performed. ThenI did, I did say is that

(40:08):
no, you do this and Ido this. I did add a little
bit of my elements inside as aChinese marshal practitioner, right, so so
I added a little bit of myown things and I said, okay,
it works this way. So hesaid he's gonna hit me this way.
I said okay, and then probablyhe said, go on set, we're
gonna added a bit of more things. I said, I'm fine with it.

(40:28):
You know, so you learn aboutyou know, the choreography. I
have like a couple of days wego, we just run through the choreography.
That after that, I'm good togo because it's just that he Coo
said that I remember everything, soit's easy and the best. And then
the other the other thing is thatI requests from them a video of night,
the fight choreography, the whole fightsequence, and so that so that

(40:51):
I can memorized while I'm doing myown free time or when when when I'm
inside my room, which I did, so I go through over and over
again and go to my script,you know, just spending the days just
going to the choreography and the scripts. You know, what do I need
to do? So those those thingsare very important. So after that they

(41:12):
will break the shot down with Timo. Timo said, okay, let's do
this and then do that. No, maybe a long shot, take a
long take here, however you wantto block it. And it was because
our time frame was shooting was reallyshort, not the usual time that he
has for for for him to justdo his things. So it's very short.

(41:35):
While during the off days sometimes heneeded to shoot previous as well just
to get the fighting you know,shot at this amount of time that was
required. So yeah, it's noteasy. Yeah, hhot was kind of
like pushing the envelopes a bit further. But were with the minimum days.
I think we're shooting that for likegood forty days. I think forty days.

(41:57):
Yeah, so I think that myfight my with Eco was four four
days in total. Okay, soyou guys spent four days shooting that final
fight sequence? Then yes, correct, So oh I was gonna say,
so you so you are kind ofmemorizing the choreography but knowing you know that

(42:17):
you have your own stunt team.Eco has his own stunt team. Is
there any ad libbing going on inthe fight sequences? And I guess what
I mean by that is almost likesimilar to pro wrestling, like, yeah,
the ending is scripted and we youknow the the baby face is gonna
win, the heel is going tolose. But there's also an element of

(42:39):
chemistry going on within the ring.And is that happening on a temo Chemo
and Eco set? Do you getto kind of ad lib as the SHOT's
going or is it no because youhave to be uh uh on on par
with the camera camera work. Ithink everything is gilded world perfectly because everybody

(43:05):
understand the language, everybody understand whateverybody needs to be doing, so we
don't really have actually our lips.But in terms of like you know that
there's a part where I get hit, I need to react onto it.
They'll tell me maybe you need toexaguate a little bit more. Maybe you
need to do this a little bitmore so I said. I said that,
okay, no problem, because Iunderstand the language, because I've been

(43:28):
doing this for a long time andI was trained as well by my own
teacher from Hong Kong so early.There are all these things that very were
really simple for me. So thereis no problem of having the chemistry with
ego. Ego is one of thebest opponents on screen. I'm telling you
this not because his ego wise,but because he will learn how to carry
you as well. The thing isthat sometimes when we fight a certain person

(43:52):
with an ego, you can tell, but he has no ego, you
know. The only thing that whathe has is is that he will teach
you. He doesn't do it right. You know, we're going saying bad
things about each other. Why whathappened yesterday? You do something to yourself?
You know, those kind of teasing. You know, we both teach

(44:12):
each other all the time. Andyou know you call me old man or
with this the the make up aboutit. You know, we teach the
makeup about it or tease the coolguy. You know, all kinds of
things that happens on set is alwayshappy. There's not even one single moment.
Everybody have that you know, attitudetowards each other, not even Ego,
not even his team. Everybody justcollaborate perfectly. So I loved.

(44:37):
I love the whole team, andI love the whole Eco team. I
love, like you know, thewhole crew and Temo, Chemo, all
of us were always having good timeshooting. There's never a moment that there's
a bit of problems or maybe yellingor shouting. No, I can't recall
that. Yeah, I can't recordit at all, not even once.
All we have is just that therewas one part where I need to me

(45:00):
cold the face and he knocked onto the wall. That part is just
like he says, I just goahead and and kick me. I said,
you see this man say yeah,just just go for it. Said
okay, so I just go forit. But of course we do a
bit of control, but you cantake the pain. I said, okay.
I said, I'm sorry, I'msorry. I I came, I'm
sorry. I give you viral AndI know that you guys are taking real

(45:27):
hits because I'm pretty sure one ofthe last hits that you take when you
guys are still in the bunker beforeyou go outside. One of the last
time, I know he pops you. I know he pops you right in
the face, like yeah, becauseyou see the hit and then your reaction
and I'm like, Sonny just reallygot hit right there, like just like
yeah, yeah, I mean thatthat scene. That scene initially was like

(45:51):
I did suggest that maybe in anelbow or look nice, but I said
no, no, no, no, no no, And then we just
do a swing. I do ita reaction. So we run through a
few times and I said it's notworking, and I mean the timing is
not really good. I said,hit me for you. Then he said,
huh for real, Yeah, hitme for you? Maybe you don't.
You don't really you just brush throughthat, do my reaction and that's

(46:12):
it. So a few that wetry, we attend that a couple of
times. All I get is slappingon the face. I said, please,
do not bitch slap me. I'mnot your bitch, man, God
Davin with you, man, youcan't tell different within the not gonna hit
as a slap God Devin, justhit me, man, and you just
like okay, you just wait andI'm nuts. So it really hit me

(46:37):
for real. A couple of times, and you know, we we take
the best take we got. Ithink we got two or three good takes.
Yeah, after we just move on. But it was your dog,
and you know I said that,you know, I used to used to
train as a boxer, so itshould be fine. You know, it's
just no problem. Yeah, butthen again the slap bitch. I just
like this with you. Man.I know that I told you that I

(47:01):
was and I knew that this wasgoing to happen because I know when you
and I get to talk and wecan talk, I know that I kept
you, or that I told youI was only going to keep you for
forty five minutes, were already overit. Do you mind if I asked
you a couple more question? Okay, all right, so I do got
a couple more for you. Iguess to the point that we were talking
about those sequences, was there asequence that in your memory that you remember

(47:29):
being very tough to shoot, likeone of the harder sequences in the movie
for you specifically to shoot? Notreally, everything was very smooth. Though
everything was very smooth, nothing thatnone of them was actually hard. It
was actually very enjoyable. I wouldsay it was enjoyable. You just when

(47:50):
it's over, you just like whatis over is funny done? You know
what I mean? And it's justlike you just don't want to get out
of the set. You just wantto do more. That's that's how I
felt. Of course, there's alsothe part where I arre injured and on
my uh what it called it toughmuscles. After rest for like a month
to come back and we do doanother shoot, so that that was like

(48:12):
hard in a way, but itwas it was probably my body was just
too tired, yeah, because ofall the weddings and so on. But
then again we got we eventually weshoot the whole thing again. Everything was
okay, but it's really it's anunforgettable shoot for for for for the years
to come, you know, theone of my favorite shoots that will being
Yeah, whole moment that it's hard, oh really for so headshot is one

(48:37):
of your favorites that you've shot,Yeah, one of my favorites because everybody
was so nice. Everybody anticipated evenwhen the time comes when when me and
Eco was going at it for thefight scene, all the crews are empt
up to look at the fight scene. You know, everybody was just emped
up. And then when we whenwe when we are shooting the fight scene,

(48:58):
the then stun guys, well yougoo guys just keeping showing me the
look at it. O give onetime. Well he knows that. I
remember the moves and everything was smooth. Yeah, everybody was just fun and
everybody was just having fun. Thereis no there was no attitude, There
was nothing like that. Everybody's who'shaving a good time. Of course,

(49:21):
sometimes you catch a Timo just waitingfor the shoot and knock off a little
bit. I took a picture ofhim and why you're snoring. Yeah,
I'm actually not surprised at that atall. Like Timo and Chemo seem like
they they know everything almost down tothe beat that they're going to do before

(49:43):
you guys even step on set.And and it shows as opposed to other
filmmakers, I mean kind of goingalong with the way that Timo does things.
I mentioned earlier that I love thecreativity of the violence with you.
How did they set that just forthe people listening to the show. How

(50:05):
did they set that shot up foryou? And the rain? Spoiler alert,
everyone with a giant, you know, shard of a log through your
chest, is that you are yousitting the whole time? How how did
we shoot that? What happened wasthere they find a lock we're supposed to
lean against, and then unbuckle myunbuttoned my shirts and put this metal piece

(50:28):
on my chest, and then theydrew the metal piece, lean into the
lock, and then redressed me againbefore the blood and everything, and therefore
the down there, How do youfeel, sucker, You can't move anymore,
bitch, that's timo for you.Man, it's full of shit.
Man, God, yeah, wellhe's gonna see that. He's gonna call

(50:52):
me man, he's gonna call menames again as usual, numbnuts. I
mean, I just love how heshoots stuff, man like his is his
attention to detail, I think isreally something to behold. I really do,
yes, he does. So thereforeto continue that. And therefore I
was sitting down there the whole timewith the rain pouring onto me, and

(51:13):
then I would just like read allover and then redress everything again and put
the rain again and put the bloodagain. The troposome part was just that
it's the blood, right you kindof staining onto your body, and then
you have to report it again andagain. And for me, I would
just like I'm just enjoying myself,you know, just like even though it's
under the under the water, underthe rain so called Fike rain, they're

(51:35):
just water holds it and then youknow, the rain just can start pouring
for a good four to five sixhours. I think around there, and
you're going, you're just sitting theregetting poured on for six hours. Yeah,
yeah, but it's okay. Itwas. It was kind of it
was kind of relaxing for me.And then see see right in front of
me all the way Chelsea is notand and uh he go reacted to it,

(51:59):
and it's a it's a kind ofthings that you it's hard to come
by when you watch other actors todo what well whatever. It is one
of the famous girl, famous actorsand a famous action actors doing their chops,
right, I mean it's right infront of me. I interact with
them, and it was just like, you know, sometime I just felt
it's real, right egals back thenreally international and I'm right now nobody working

(52:23):
with him and looking one of themost famous girl in Indonesia. So it's
just like, man, I'm leavinga dream, right, the film is
going to take me to You're notnobody. I urge people to go back
and watch some of Sonny's earlier work. I I'm kind of bummed that you
and I didn't get to talk aboutuh, call call when you need me.

(52:45):
That's what it's called, right,call when you need me. I
think that is some of the mostsubtle, restrained acting on your part.
That it's so good, man,it's so good. So anyway, I
just kind of wanted to break awayfrom that. But to the point of
the character, one of the thingsthat you have now done, and this

(53:07):
is my last question. I don'twant to keep you any longer, but
one of the things that you havedone in both of Timo's pieces is going
in and out of English multiple languages. I mean, I think in The
Night Comes for Us you speak threedifferent languages. I think in this one
you speak too. Is the characterwritten like that or are you the one

(53:31):
making that artistic decision? Because whatI find what pulls me into your characters
the most is that there's no there'sno unbelievability when you are going in and
out of different languages like it's infact, to a certain degree, I

(53:52):
think it sells your character even more. It makes it adds another layer to
your character that makes it bigger thanwhat it may initially been. Now is
it written like that or are youinfusing that yourself? It's written that way.
It's written that way, and soI'll try my best to get into

(54:12):
Like I said, I spend timewith it so to make the language my
own. But Cantonese or Mandin ismy second language, so it's easy for
me. But Bahaza, it wasn'tmy even in my vocabulary, you know
what I mean. So I justhave to relearn everything again, really reallyn
again and again and try to memorizemy my dialogue. So yeah, I

(54:32):
mean it's kind of hard. Butthen again I try to make it like
you know, like I said,I spend time with myself so to make
it a bit more realistic that aspeople can believe that I'm this character,
I'm no nobody else is, becausesometimes I notice that sometimes some the actor
will make it try to pronounce toohard to believe that this person is actually

(54:52):
this character or this ethnic groups.But even though probably in my look Chinese
try to speak Japanese, it doesn'tsound like Japanese, you know what I
mean. So just like what thefuck you're talking about You're not even there.
Well, I think it's a it'sa responsibility for me as an actor

(55:14):
to make it believable, you knowwhat I mean? Yeah, I think
it makes your character so much bigger. Now, if I hear you just
you know, speaking Chinese or Indonesiaor whatever the case may be, and
you take out the American element orspeaking English element, I think your character.
I went from, if you're speakingEnglish, I think your character,

(55:35):
Oh, man, he's an internationalcrime lord when I hear that. If
you're just speaking Chinese or Indonesian,oh he's a small town crime lord,
you know. And you add sucha bigger aspect to that. And I
don't know just the way that youdo it, sir, effortlessly. And
that's why go back to what Isaid in the beginning of the show,

(55:59):
I don't I don't understand if Ican hit the lottery anytime soon. I'm
bringing you guys over here and we'remaking movies because I still think you know,
this piece headshot shot in you know, probably twenty fourteen, and you
know into twenty fifteen. This isa twenty sixteen movie that still plays better

(56:21):
than ninety eight percent of American actionfilms. Literally, like I and you
guys have been doing it years andyears ago, so I just wanted to
let you know. I mean,I think the Uhi's stunt team is probably
what stands out in the action choreographyin this film, But on your end

(56:42):
of things, I think your actingis what stands out more. And this
is no disrespect to Chelsea, nodisrespect to Eco, no disrespect to Julie,
no disrespect at all. But Ifeel like my more enjoyable moments are
watching you not fight in this movie. Those are my favorite moments. So

(57:06):
oh, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you. Well,
yeah, I mean that because Iwas, I was, I was,
I mean, I were coming inas an actor before I become an
action actor, because I love actingsso much, I love character so much.
Back in the eight nineties, youknow, we watch a lot of

(57:27):
good movies, great movies, greatactors, right, so you tend to
want to be in debt in theirshoes, right, And a lot of
movies back then there's unforgettable moments.Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lamb okay,
and that is one of my favorite, like Heat is one of my
favorite all time favorite, you know, like Daniel day Lewis in the Last

(57:51):
and No Mohicans is one of myfavorites. You know what else there's there's
so many of them you can't finishthem right. So those moments are truly
you spend time with it and whenwe rewatch it again, you feel the
same thing as as it were before, as like fresh from the oven,
you know, just like one amI when am I supposed to do this?

(58:13):
You know when when I have aconfrontation in uh call if you need
me, that confrontation reminds me ofhow much I need to pull back deep
down inside and not let my angerout burst to get the point that where
I need to get. So thosemoments are are very truly just uh A

(58:35):
leaving leaving moments to moments for acharacter for myself. And then those more
there's moments where I was smoking andtalking to a young guy when she wanted
to come into the business, andthose moments are really truly nice as well.
So finally I become a big bossand I'm getting this young chap to
come into my play, to comeinto to the clime, syndicate to do

(58:58):
whatever we do, just ask them, what are the chick questions that to
make them do not leave this jobbecause I probably need helps from them.
So those things up, those thingsare like really rememberable, memorable for me
because I can tell you there backthen, we only shot that film for
like two weeks. Two weeks andpreparation looks like one week. Man.

(59:22):
Yeah, and we're just enjoying thewhole twop. But the only thing one
things I don't enjoy is the lackof secrets. I smoke almost like every
day. God damn, I justlike going back. I have a we
drow sing droom in a really reallyI'm just like, ah, okay,
open up the rusty gates and lessstuff popping up the smoke. Goddamn it.

(59:44):
Yeah, I still gotta quit myself. I can't like I'll I'll do
this thing where I quit for amonth and then I'll smoke for two months.
I'll quit for three months and thenI'll smoke for another year. It
is the it is the bane ofmy existence. So I definitely understand what
you're saying, Sonny, I'm gonnaget you out of here. I cannot

(01:00:06):
tell you how much I appreciate you, sir. I appreciated this movie.
I appreciate you, know, II gotta be And this sounds so stupid
to say. This sounds so dumbto say, but I feel like in
my neck of the woods, whichis basically a bumfuck Midwestern city in the

(01:00:27):
United States, Like I know thatI'm your guys' biggest fan within a four
hundred mile radius, and I willfollow you guys anywhere, And Sonny,
you just, ladies and gentlemen,go bother this man. Well, don't
bother him, but go go visitthis guy's social media, see what he's
up to, because I think he'sone of the best working today. Do

(01:00:49):
you know any awesome American actors thatare going in and out of different accents,
different languages and selling it? Well, you don't, But yet I
get the privilege to talk to somebodywho does it effortlessly. Sir. I
will follow you anywhere, and Ican't wait until next time, my man.
So I appreciate you, and wewill talk soon, sir. We

(01:01:10):
will talk soon. All right,We're gonna get Sonny out of here.
Is he not the best? Ishe not the absolute best? Like I
when I say that, So youguys know that I really don't like talking
to anyone unless, like I feelthat they're going to be beneficial from the

(01:01:35):
show or beneficial to the show,and he makes my job easier. So
anyway, headshot. You can seeheadshot on Netflix right now. Like I
said, we got head shots starringEco Wise Sonny Pang. Sorry about that
a little loud Sonny Pang, ChelseaIslam, very uls Mom, Julia stell

(01:01:58):
Ariyo Bayu lead on Netflix. Now. Please go listen to it, well,
go watch the movie first and thenif you feel like listen to us
chat that's fine too. Ellis CinemaHeadshot Sonny Pang a week