Episode 263: Nosferatu - featuring Charles Urban and Kyle Bruehl

Nosferatu is a gothic horror film directed by Robert Eggers, offering a fresh yet authentic take on the classic vampire tale. Set in 1838, the story follows newlyweds Ellen and Thomas Hutter. Thomas, a real estate agent, embarks on a journey to the remote Carpathian Mountains to facilitate a property sale to the egnimatic Count Orlock. As Thomas ventures deeper into Orlock's world, Ellen becomes the object of the vampire's obsession, leading to a series of haunting and perilous events.
Starring Lily-Rose Depp, Bill Skarsgard, Nicholas Hoult, Willem Dafoe, Aaron Taylor-Johnson, Emma Corrin, and Ralph Ineson.
Music by Robin Carolan
Production Design by Craig Lathrop
Edited by Louise Ford
Director of Photography Jarin Blaschke
Prosthetics and Visual Effects by David White
Written and Directed by Robert Eggers

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:38):
All right, Ellis Sendhima back another dish? How are we
doing out there? Good? Great Gray yand hey Yan the
wonderful as you see on your screen or your dial.
However you are choosing to join us today, we appreciate.
I appreciate you, nast or no fatu, however you want
to say it. Starring Lily Rose Up, Nicholas Holt, Aaron Taylor,

(00:59):
down Johnson, Willem Dafoe, Simon McBurney, Ralph Ineson, Emma Corn
and Bill Skarsgard. We got music by Robin Carolyn, production
designed by Craig Lathrop, editing by Louise Ford, Director of
photography Jaren Blashskei obviously the highlight of this particular film.
We got prosthetic and visual effects by David White and

(01:21):
written and directed by Robert Eggers. Jeez, you think I
should have practiced this a little bit more, But we
like to be raw here at this show. So before
delving into the twenty twenty four version, let's just briefly
visit the original for a lot of you younger cats listening.
Nosprautu was a nineteen twenty two silent film from German

(01:43):
expressionist F. W. Murnau or Murnau. It is an unauthorized
adaptation of Bram Stokers Dracula, and it is often credited
as one of the first films to solidify the image
of the vampire in cinema. The film is renowned for
its eerie atmosphere, unsettling performances, and groundbreaking visual style, particularly

(02:04):
the use of shadow and light. Count Orlock, portrayed by
Max Shrek, became a symbol of horror and still to
this day with his haunting appearance, a gaunt, bald figure
with elongated ears, sharp teeth, and menacing clause. The eerie
in haunting cinematography from the twenty two version, combined with
minimalist storytelling, set the stage for future vampire films. And then,

(02:29):
of course we had Werner Herzog's reimagining of Nosferatu the
Vampire in seventy nine. Reimagine the story of Count Orlock,
played by Klaus Kinsky Boy, he was kind of a whiner.
For those of you that see very he was kind
of a whiner, Klaus, whose obsession with a young woman, Lucy,
leads to a series of terrifying events. The film follows

(02:52):
Orlock's journey from his eerie castle in Transylvania to the
small town of Visburg, where his deadly presence brings a
plague of death and fear. The film is likewise known
for its striking visuals chilling atmosphere, achieved through a sense
of Gothic decay and eerie beauty, combining old world architecture
with surreal elements. Herzog's direction infuses the film with a

(03:17):
dream like quality, blending elements of horror with poetic and
philosophical musings. Kinsky's portrayal of Orlock is particularly iconic, delivering
a performance that is both mesmerizing and terrifying. In Nosparato
the Vampire, her Zog plays homage to the original film, Why,
creating a unique, unsettling version that combined combines horror with

(03:40):
existential themes. Now for what we're going to be talking
about today, Robert Eggers Nosferatu came out last year on Christmas.
You probably can't see the date over there. I don't
even know why I put that shirt up there. I
just I had bought the shirt for my lady, and
I thought, oh, you know what would be cool is
if you look like you're a dime store podcast, and

(04:01):
that you wedge it between movies. That's a great idea.
I thought I'm an idiot anyway. Eggers has also a
haunting and visually compelling reimagine of F. W. Murnow's nineteen
twenty two horror masterpiece. Eggers renowned for his ability to
craft eerie, atmospheric horrors, which with films such as The

(04:22):
Witch and The Lighthouse. This version brings a fresh yet
faithful twist to the iconic tale of Count Orlock, a
vampire whose obsession with a young woman Ellen brings horror
to a small town. The film stars Bill Scarsguard as
the terrifying, enigmatic Count Orlock, whose chilling portrayal captures the

(04:43):
supernatural menace of the character. Lily Rose Depp portrays Ellen,
the innocent woman ensnared in his deadly grip, offering a
delicate balance of vulnerability and strength. And then there's Steve Holt.
I don't like Nicholas hold I don't know why, but
so I I always in my head refer to him
as Steve Holt, which is silly. Nicholas Holt assumes the

(05:06):
role of Thomas Hutter, the unwitting catalyst for the whores
unleashed by Orlock's arrival their performance. To me, their performances
are compelling and nuance, each actor adding depth to the
gothic narrative. The screen play by Eggers stays true to
the original haunting themes of desire, death, and obsession, while

(05:27):
subtly modernizing certain aspects to resonate with contemporary fears. Egger's
meticulous direction instills a palpable sense of dread and isolation,
capturing the original film's eerie atmosphere while pushing the boundaries
of modern horror. I don't know if I would go
that far. I don't know why I wrote that line,
because I've seen boundaries push much further than that. But

(05:49):
we're just gonna go with it. The standout for me
was a cinematography by Jaren Blashkey. I thought he masterfully
captured the beauty of the cane world that our characters
and habit. Blatchkey uses, you know, an assortment of shots,
start contrasts of light and shadow, and deliberate framing to

(06:10):
create an unsettling sense of tension and claustrophobia. His work
significantly enhances the film's gothic horror, adding layers of discomfort
and dread to each scene. And let's not forget I
know one guest on this show, well, I actually what
am I talking about? Both guests on these show knows
my love for music and soundtracks. The music, composed by

(06:32):
Robin Carolyn, plays a crucial role in elevating the film's
unsettling atmosphere. The score is minimal yet deeply atmospheric, using
haunting melodies and a little bit of subtle sound design
here and there, creating that impending sense of doom. The
music pulses with tension, amplifying the horror on screen and

(06:52):
underscoring the emotional weight of the character's plight. Another part
of the film that I liked was the production designed
by Craig Lathrop, both haunting and beautiful. Gang One of
my favorite portions of this film was the atmosphere. He
sets the stage for a world drenched in decay and darkness,

(07:14):
captures gothic yet timeless. Uh captures a gothic yet timeless
environment that blends period accurate detail with surreal elements, the
crumbling castles, the fog filled streets. I love the use
of the fog, both cg and practical. I thought it
really worked in this film, and also the claustrophobic interiors

(07:37):
that invoke a world caught between dream and nightmare, immersing
the audience in a haunting and physical manifestation of the
film's tear. The brilliance of Nosferatu. I don't again, as
I'm reading what I wrote brilliance, I think we toss
around brilliant and genius a little too much. But hey,

(07:58):
I was in my zone writingang. Uh, it's a collaborative
genius of the entire team, I think. Uh. The my
favorite portion of the film is everyone is clicking on
all cylinders, the cast, the crew, We're We're leaving no
stone unturned. I thought Egger's attention attention to detail cannot
be understated. The music, haunting, you know, the the production design,

(08:24):
the decay. It is a in some regards, a masterclass
in horror filmmaking and and a testament to the immense
talent that I uh just talked about. And I thought
it was a really good retelling of a very very
old tale. So holy shit, that was long winded. Joining

(08:46):
me today our two guests that are no strangers to
the show today on the show with his record setting
that's right, you heard it right, Gang his record setting
twelve uppeer on the show Kyle Brule from the I
Know Movies and You don't podcast No, And I thought

(09:11):
it funny story for those of you listening. For the
first time I actually heard Kyle. I had never met
the man before. I'd never met the man. I heard
Kyle on a podcast from some other dude that I
was following on Instagram. I'm a movie fanatic gang. I
put on the podcast. I listened to what this dude
had to say. I reached out to him randomly and

(09:34):
was like, hey, man, I do a movie podcast too.
You want to come out on the show, and he
graciously agreed. And there's not too many of people, especially
around here, that can hang with me in terms of
movie talk. And then I talked to Kyle and I
realize I don't know movies. He knows movies and I don't.

(09:56):
Kyle Brule twelfth appearance, Sir, how are you?

Speaker 2 (10:00):
Twelve times Dan? It's a and I feel like it
should have been more.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Yeah, Oh, you're right, I'm trash. You're right.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
We've talked about doing other movies, and every time we
dip in and out about talking about like Deep Red
or Habit in Costello me Frankenstein, but we we dip
in and out. But twelve, you know, it's an honor.
It's if that's a record for your show, it's an honor.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Thank you for having me, by a long shot. And
then I thought to myself, we should bring someone who
in who is no stranger to the dark and macab
he's actually been on this show before. Also another just random.
You know, you you reach out, you partner with people,
and then before you know it, you're you're chatting with them,

(10:45):
you know, on a weekly basis, which I couldn't ask
for anymore. This dude, he's gonna be our resident guide
into the darkness and the macabre singer songwriter from the
Lonesome Skeleton Band, the also the Sad Hour Band and
the recently deceased Picasso's Charles Urban. Thank you so much,

(11:09):
sir for coming on the show today.

Speaker 3 (11:14):
Pudy good to be here, as always.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Good And I'm so sorry this this was probably supposed
to happen. I don't know at this point. It feels
like four months ago that we were talking about trying
to get this going. But there's a reason Gang why
I picked you, Because I had, in fact Kyle sent
me a funny text. I really enjoyed it because I
think a lot of it stems from my love for

(11:41):
universal monsters, and I'm able to, maybe, I should say,
get into maybe using very old and tried and true
tropes or even formats. And I text Kyle and he's like, Hey,
you're having another guy in show. You guys aren't going

(12:01):
to gang up on me, are you? And just beat
me up about, you know, perhaps not liking Nosto. And
I said, quite the contrary, sir. It kind of sounds
like it is me versus you two. Not that I
want to turn the show into that, but I guess
just if we're to start, how do we before we
get into Nosferatu as a whole, Charles, I'll I'll start

(12:25):
with you, how do we feel about vampire lore in general?
Are we are we in? Are we bored by it?
How do you feel about vampire lore?

Speaker 4 (12:36):
Time?

Speaker 3 (12:36):
Is an abuse as profound as a thousand nights? Now
that you mentioned it.

Speaker 4 (12:42):
Uh, you know, I'm I'm an old I'm an old
school I like grew up with the classics as well
as the pivotal Nosferatu.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Indeed, as far back as I.

Speaker 4 (12:56):
Can Remember I was reading of him in all the
different books and such, so much so that when they
did the bit in the original SpongeBob run, I saw
him and was like, oh my god, it's my friend.

Speaker 3 (13:10):
It's my buddy.

Speaker 4 (13:10):
He knows Faratu, this this, and like SpongeBob had a
thousand more credit.

Speaker 3 (13:15):
In my book at that point.

Speaker 4 (13:17):
But like, I'm coming to terms with the fact that,
like conferring with other people, they didn't know that he
was a guy, Like they didn't know of No Saratu
prior to the SpongeBob bit.

Speaker 3 (13:27):
And I'm like, I'm affirmed in the fact that I
get to see my friend knows Faratu in SpongeBob.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
Anyway, No, I love that story. So you're in.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
You're in, to say the least. Yeah, I owe.

Speaker 1 (13:41):
What about you?

Speaker 5 (13:41):
Are?

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Is it tired to you at this point where where
you're like, I'm not really a vampire guy. I'm more
a creature from the Black Lagoon guy. I like wear wolves.
How do you feel about the vampires?

Speaker 3 (13:54):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (13:54):
Which which horror fetish speaks to me?

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Right?

Speaker 5 (13:58):
Is it the Flipper of Man or is it's the
Hairy wolf Man? You know?

Speaker 2 (14:02):
It's funny, I because My background is in all of cinema.
Like I am not a horror officionado. I'm not a
Bollywood aficionado or a historian. I love all cinema and
so I know a little bit about a lot of things,
and so I can appreciate most things. And so my
background to the horror lore, especially with vampires. I mean

(14:28):
it goes back to being introduced to Bela Legosi in
the original Dracula Top brownings Dracula. There's something seductive, there's
something aristocratic, there's something unattainable in that, and I enjoyed
that performance. I mentally, it's one of those that's years

(14:49):
into your brain, especially if you see it at a
young age, and then you see silent and then you
start to see some silent movies, which I think more
people should be introduced at a younger age. Your ability
to digest them is much easier when down the line,
especially because if you're only immersed in sound, if you're
only immersed in linking sound and dialogue to the visual,

(15:14):
it will be difficult. It almost somnambulent or sleepy, you know,
to try and get into a different headspace because it's
a totally different realm. Of filmmaking, and I remember watching
for the original Notes Fautu, and there's something so hypnotic
and hallucinatory about it because it is like a nightmare.
You are immersed into its visual shadows. And then when

(15:39):
I did an episode on it, it made me appreciate
the history. I mean, not only the Pilford history, the
fact that they just adapted Dracula and just did not
give it any reference, which is why it disappeared for
a long time, and almost it was almost destroyed because
it got sued into oblivion. But the fact that we

(16:00):
have it, the fact that it exists, and the history
that stems from it. I'm a I'm a huge appreciator
of stamping and defining a lore. You know, if I
don't know if I'm dogmatic to any lore. If you
told me this is what a vampire should be, I'd
be like, sure, that's your vampire, and you can have

(16:23):
your affinity to that vampire. I like it when things evolve.
I like it when things change, and so I like
that there's a foundation.

Speaker 5 (16:31):
I like that there's an understanding.

Speaker 2 (16:33):
It comes from It comes from Bram Stoker, it comes
from that novel, It comes from Knows Faratu Dracula, but
the fact that we can dip in and out and
have variations and interpretations from like Catherine Bigelow's Near Dark
or Thomas Alfredson's Let the Right One In. I like
things that take take something of that lore, your understanding

(16:54):
of it, and twist it turn it. I can appreciate
it all. And so again, I like the classic, but
I also like when things can be reinterpreted, and so
I I think, I don't think anything's off limits. I
don't think anything sacred and you know, let alone law
or dogmatic rules to law, and so I appreciate its foundation,

(17:17):
and I like it when it changes in the future.

Speaker 1 (17:20):
Yeah, you said a couple of things there. One. So
there is an age difference between my partner and I
and the first silent film. Ah. Yes, don't tell me
how to raise my girlfriend. I would appreciate it if
you don't do that. So what I'll say is she
watched her first silent film ever was a Nosparatu. We

(17:43):
watched it a few months ago, so we actually did
back to back to back. We went and saw Nosparatu.
I think on a Sunday Friday. We did the Silent
film Saturday we did her zogs and then we went
and saw this one in I'm sure.

Speaker 2 (18:01):
Part of Yeah, I think her songs is more challenging
because it's compared because it's longer. This one's also longer,
and I think it's an easily digestible silent film as compared.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Yeah, she was just saying, so it took her a minute.
What she was saying is just like the first twenty
five minutes was kind of brutal for me because I'm
not used to something like this, like even as something
as primitive as well. Their mouths are moving, but I'm
getting two sentences of text on the screen, and she
just there was an adjustment period, but long term she

(18:36):
ended up loving it. You said another thing there, and
I'm just gonna you know, this is what we do.
We kind of spitball. You mentioned actually my favorite vampire
film as you were talking, so let's kind of roundtable.
I can go first my actually my favorite vampire film,

(18:56):
though I really do enjoy this one. It's less the
right one in obviously the Swedish version, not the one
with Chloe Chloe what's her face?

Speaker 5 (19:05):
But I.

Speaker 1 (19:07):
Let the right one in. Still, after all these years,
I can put that on and go, Yeah, that's my
favorite vampire film. So Charles, what about you if you
have any response to what he was saying, or just
kind of your favorite vampire film, you know what, I'm
gonna throw in there too. Let the right one in
and Steakland. I know that's kind of a random one,
but I do like Steakland, So Charles, yeah, I'm.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
Just gonna keep pace with that. I would say two
different schools here, my favorite vampire film versus my favorite
Dracula adaption. Okay, because to me, I think it's it's
like largely different worlds, but favorite vampires. I mean, it's
hard to go wrong with the what we do in
the Shadows the film, of course.

Speaker 1 (19:52):
Yes, of course. And by the way, I just want
the fans to know your cover of Norma's track this
Saturday at the coffee shop. Amazing, bro, When like I
in this, I wish my partner was here so she
could confer this is As soon as you started talking
about it, I'm like looking at her, going, no fucking way,

(20:13):
no fucking way is he gonna do this? So just random.
That was amazing, sir, Absolutely amazing.

Speaker 3 (20:19):
It was the least I could do Okay, I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
I'm sorry to actually learn it.

Speaker 3 (20:24):
Learn it better for myself anyhow.

Speaker 4 (20:26):
But yes, that film is so great just because of
how much it references and having seen years and years
of vampire films like Your Salem's Lot, like You're no Sharatu,
like the Brown Stoker's Dracula, that it's it's richer because
of all of that, because each character represents a different
era to me, and that is why it's like kind

(20:47):
of getting your your everything.

Speaker 3 (20:48):
In one bite, so to speak.

Speaker 4 (20:53):
And then yeah and uh, I would then put from
Stoker's Dracula kind of head and shoulders of like any
other Dracula adaption, if only because it's so ghastly and
arrogant and disgustingly just a feast of visuals and like
you've got a wealth of talented actors, regardless of bloody

(21:18):
wolves chasing me for some blue and photo.

Speaker 3 (21:21):
And I'll take that, dude, even the worst of them.

Speaker 5 (21:27):
You know.

Speaker 2 (21:29):
I like the word arrogant for describing Bram Stokers, because
I mean, what an adaptation it is. Over the top,
it is, it's I mean, it's expansive. It is the
movie that comes up in my mind when we talk
about Dracula adaptations, because I do think it is the

(21:52):
one that Eggers is sitting in kind of a shadow
of it, and that's a big pro problem. I think old, yes,
the shadow of it, you know, all of it. It's
it is also the Hertzog version as well, and I
don't want to like start immediately going after Eggers. I

(22:13):
think it's that mixture of those two, and they're so prominent,
they're so powerful, they're so visually instructive and original, that
it's hard to follow that. It's hard to follow those
kinds of adaptations and interpretations.

Speaker 5 (22:33):
And I don't mean to keep shifting.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
The dialogue, Sean, I know it's a hang, but I
mean the fact that the brand Stoker I think, I
think it is a monumental adaptation, even when it has
these flaws. And again, I think flaws can can enhance
a movie.

Speaker 5 (22:51):
This idea that there's some pitch perfect gloss.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Of a movie without anything, without accidents on set and
without reinterpretations as things are going on. That's the living,
breathing entity of a film. And what we get in
Bram Stokers Francis Forcoppola's ego and his ambition, it is
a truly monumental adaptation, and it it's it's about that

(23:19):
idea of seduction, it's about that idea of the Gothic,
and it's it's it's aristocratic.

Speaker 5 (23:29):
Oppression. That is, it's a changing world.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
And what they're going to do to hold on to
it and its its power, and and and how everyone
is caught in that changing world. I mean that that's
what that movie is ultimately about. And I think I
think when when you do a movie, when you when
you strive to do an adaptation and strive to tell
that story, you want to have a purpose in telling

(23:56):
that story. And I think Hertzeg had a purpose. He
wanted to invert, you wanted to inverse the characters. You
know one was coming at the other. And obviously Eggers
applies that same inversion into his version in his adaptation,
and then you have Francis Forcopola, who takes it into
its kind of epic.

Speaker 5 (24:17):
Period piece impact.

Speaker 2 (24:20):
And I think those versions have such import and they
have such vision that it's hard to watch something like
Egger's version and go, oh, I see the reference, I
see your influences, I see your withering heights, I see
your nose. Faratu I see all that has gone into

(24:41):
the work, but I don't feel it. I don't feel
it as compared to these other works. I think that
they had vision, they had purpose, and Eggers he clearly
was very moved by the original. He was clearly very
influenced by silent filming. I mean most of his movies,
like The Witch is taken from other silent films like

(25:04):
Hugson and you have the Lighthouse. There's French movie in
the nineteen twenty seven called The Lighthouse Keepers or something
like that. He's very immersed in silent film and I
can appreciate that. But where those other two differ is
that he had a purpose in retelling his version of
those things. Well, this one seemed superficial, and I think

(25:27):
that that's going to be a key difference in assessing
the works.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Okay, okay, So something that you had said in there,
and I've actually been pondering this a lot lately, do
you think that maybe when we receive stuff like this
and Charles, maybe you're in this same boat. I feel
like I'm getting to the point where I have seen
so much stuff that the work is actually I'm doing

(25:58):
a disservice to the work. Because of that. So this
is a true story. I was just talking about this
a week ago. I've often considered lately maybe taking like
three months off of watching movies in general and just whatever,
just get into music and read a little bit more,
because I found myself kind of going, Man, I feel
like if I didn't watch twenty two movies this week,

(26:20):
this one might have hit a little bit harder. Do
you think that that is a possibility when you're sitting
down and watching something like this, Like we are so
aware of Dracula vampire lore at this point, especially like
for you know, Charles and I who almost you know,
push ourselves to seek more horror stuff that unfortunately we

(26:43):
kind of we just do a disservice to the film
in general. Are you getting that where it is just
me being crazy?

Speaker 3 (26:52):
I can feel that absolutely. I think that the first
time I saw the film, which was.

Speaker 4 (26:59):
The week of of Christmas, but when it released, there's
a whole backstory to the marketing, and I love to
talk about that a little bit about how that influenced
my viewing of the film, and my God, my trials
and tribulation is trying to get one of those popcorn
buckets we could get there.

Speaker 1 (27:17):
But did you end up buying that casket for twenty
two thousand dollars on NBC's website. Did you buy that?

Speaker 4 (27:23):
Or yeah, they only had the one so sold out
before I could get my little myths on it. But
by and large, I think that being so familiar with
the story, there was an expectation and before we kind
of get to final summations, if it all that's probably

(27:48):
my biggest hiccup with it, if how familiar I am
with it, and that it wasn't exactly doing the things
that I expected a No Sparatu by Name adaption to
be doing, or maybe it did a little too much.

Speaker 5 (28:03):
Okay, that's a really good point.

Speaker 2 (28:06):
And actually it's in a reference to maybe Sean, because
Sean in your opening, and I don't want to take
anything away from anyone's experience, and I'm not here to
convince Sean that it's a bad movie.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
Want you, I want you both to to be like you, guys, Sean,
you watch the wrong fucking thing. You're wrong.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
I mean, I've definitely walked out of that theater feeling
very disappointed, and it was very it was a little
bit shocking to me how disappointed. I was, and I
had to kind of come to terms. I was like,
what exactly was it?

Speaker 5 (28:34):
Something?

Speaker 2 (28:35):
Was it?

Speaker 5 (28:35):
Me? Was I in a bad mental space? Was?

Speaker 2 (28:38):
And I was asking these questions because I think anyone should,
like who is a mature moviegoer, should ask a variety
of questions about their experience.

Speaker 5 (28:47):
But in your opening, you you.

Speaker 2 (28:49):
Prefaced a lot of things about its visual qualities which
I cannot rob Egger's nor his production design team, nor
Jaron Blashkey's cinematography, who's an excellent cinematographer. From from the
richness that that that they were able to provide, the
seriousness and the melancholy and the the the oh, what's

(29:09):
the right word for it? The the haunting elements of
the score that you brought up. You brought up all
these things that I cannot necessarily disagree with that in
in assessing the totality of Nosferatune, especially Edgar's version, for me,
it was in that it's this too much, and that
that's what led me to really like think about it. It

(29:31):
took me a little while to think about, oh it
is it is so much of a of an adaptation
of ram Stokers that it it doesn't allow itself any
any anything into the space other than its sense of adaptation,
other than its sense of retelling this story beat for beat,

(29:52):
you know, character to character, and it almost felt inert
because of that. It almost felt suffocated by its sense
of influence. It felt suffocated by its sense of drama
and horror, and to the point where, in what in
my experience, it was so self serious it inverted into parody,

(30:15):
which was a very weird experience for me, because I
wanted to laugh, like in elements in scenes that I see,
and I'm in this film community, you know, in social media,
and people share often, you know, means and experiences.

Speaker 5 (30:31):
You know, Lily Rose depth.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
You know, I'm not going to take away from the
performance and her dedication, but when she's like ripping the thing,
there's such an overbearing sense of melodrama to it that
I thought I found it silly, and I was questioning,
am I supposed to Is it supposed to be silly?

Speaker 5 (30:49):
Is it supposed to be parody?

Speaker 2 (30:51):
And then oftentimes he'd undercut that feeling by having an
over sense of horror and a declaration of that horror,
and I'm like, oh, he's not making fun of this,
it's just so self serious of an adaptation that he's
not allowing any light, he's not allowing any humanity, and
he's not allowing any realm for his own interpretation of it.

(31:14):
And I felt that that was what was very striking
about my experience, because I think all the things that
you tapped into and are recognizing as strengths kind of
worked in a disfavor for me. They were almost so
good in a vein of its melodrama and horror that
it bent, it kind of arched back into a kind
of silliness to me.

Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, No, I so I love I love everything that
you said, I guess, And that kind of circles back
to what I initially asked you guys, if we have
gotten to the point where we just keep expecting more
and more. So you had said something like, if we
do the one offs to let the right one in

(31:58):
the stake, and we're just kind of running with vampire
lore in a different direction, that can be its own thing,
Whereas I guess what I found myself, and yeah, there's
moments of Lily Rose's portrayal of Ellen that I.

Speaker 5 (32:17):
Don't mean to only hone in on her.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I think like Aaron Taylor Johnson is in a totally
different movie than everybody else.

Speaker 5 (32:25):
I think.

Speaker 2 (32:26):
I think Willem Dafoe is on this other, another planet,
like he's.

Speaker 5 (32:30):
The one having the most fun in the world.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
I just think there's a variety of inconsistency to the performances,
and so I don't mean to hone in on her
where it's it kind of arches into overstatement. I think
a lot of them have the same problem, but for
different reasons.

Speaker 5 (32:46):
Sorry I keep interrupting.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
You, Now you're good. In fact this I want to
see both of your faces as I say this. I
actually thought, with the exception of Bill, Aaron's performance is
the best in the film. The reason why I think
this is because it does take me back to those
older films where I'm like, this is so over the

(33:10):
top that like some of his dialogue, and let's not
we need to show some love to Aaron. Out of
any character that gets fucked in that movie, it's him.
All he does is open his home to these people,
and before you know it, his kids are getting tossed
to the ground with bite marks in the neck and everything.
But besides, what ju I really do I really do

(33:32):
feel like so I'm with you, Kyle. When I first
when you first started talking, I went, this is different
than anybody else that is on screen right now, Like
this feels just very grand. But by the time we
were midway or even into the third act, I'm like,
this is reminding me of a time that no longer exists.

(33:56):
I guess is I was able to finally push myself
into this is no different than watching an Abin and
Costello film, or at least films from that era, And
I ultimately kind of it jarred me at first, but
then by the time the credits were rolling, I was like,
he fits the best in this particular adaptation. And everyone

(34:20):
that I went with, I went with a group of
like nine people, they were like he was obnoxious, Like
that was it didn't feel a part of the tone,
but like that again, like I think I was able
to force myself to just be like, no, man appreciate

(34:42):
that we are if okay, So maybe this will make
better sense. If it wasn't called Nosferatu, I may have
a completely different take on how he chose to portray
the character. But because it was I think, ultimately like
it ended up working for me. Now, if he was
playing that in Steakland, I'd be like, this is weird,

(35:06):
Like this doesn't fit for me. So and again, as
Kyle knows and Charles you will soon learn, like I'm
not a smart person. It's why I ended up just
liking this movie so much, because I think at the end,
I was like, as far as a modern retelling goes,

(35:26):
there's worse things I could watch. Now. I do have
a problem, I think with some of Egger's decisions as
a director. I did with The Witch, I did with
The Lighthouse, and there was a couple times I did
with this. But as far as a retelling reimagining of

(35:46):
this story, I just ultimately thought it worked for the
very things that I was talking about in the beginning,
because it plays like a classic to me, Like to me,
it's way more classic than it is modern. And I
was able to, I guess, on some level, transport myself
back to Bela Lugosi and like I really loved Bill's performance,

(36:09):
Like I even though you know he's what does he
speaking dation half the film just some dead language, whether
it be the throat exercises he did to prepare for it.
I like that because it did feel I don't want
to say Cartoony's not the right word. But I just

(36:30):
felt like both of those performances fit in this particular film,
if anything, and I and I liked literally Rose too,
but if anything, it was kind of hurt well. Actually,
if I'm being honest with both of you, Steve Holt
is what brings me out of every movie. I keep
saying Steve Holt for people that have seen Arrest of
the development, but I just don't like him. I don't

(36:54):
like his face, don't I don't like anything. The fact
that he's in Mad Max Fury Road upsets me every
time I rewatch it. I just it's it's I I'm
just not a fan. But anyway, anyway, I pull back.
That's why I'm saying some of the things that I
did in that intro, because you're right, it did start out.

(37:16):
It started out with me. It started out I definitely
had question marks going but by the time we ended,
I went I view this no different than a universal
monster movie. At the end of the day. That's how
I ultimately ended up viewing it. And as we know,
universal monster movies aren't you know, it's they're not the
most technically sound, they're not the most you know, wonderfully

(37:37):
acted in this, that, and the other, and that's why
I ended up liking it a lot. Everybody else that
went with me, I think there was only one person
that was like, hey, that was awesome, and the rest
were like, you wasted my time. Why did you drag
me to this? So but anyway, that's my my rebuttal
to that and I and I can't even necessarily disagree
with anything you said. Well, one thing I will say
about Lily Roe's depth if if she wasn't playing Ellen,

(38:02):
I actually think she turned in a real above average
performance for that particular character.

Speaker 2 (38:11):
Just a thought, Well, she's dedicated, there's no denying. And
maybe maybe this is an interesting way of talking about performance,
intention and how everything is supposed to come together, you know,
because that is egar's job. Beggar's job is to you know,

(38:31):
mix his tones, his intentions and bring everything into cohesion.
And the Coen Brothers have said the hardest thing about
directing is tongue is to remain consistent and talk about
filmmakers who dip in and out of comedy, irony and drama,
you know, at any given moment in a lot.

Speaker 5 (38:52):
Of their movies. They said that it's it's that balancing.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Act is very difficult, and so Edgar's I think, not
to have a balance act.

Speaker 5 (39:02):
He removes a lot of the humanity from it.

Speaker 2 (39:04):
It is it is essentially and if I'm going to,
you know, tap into his intention and see what he's
doing in a sense of his artistry and his intention,
it's to be it's to immerse us into what you're saying.
Is is kind of a classic tale, but it almost

(39:25):
feels like it's from.

Speaker 5 (39:26):
The monster's perspective.

Speaker 2 (39:28):
It's it is from a very heightened, nightmarish, surrealistic interpretation.
It's all it's all mood. It's and this is uh.
This is consistent in Egger's work, which is all mood
works better there in my opinion, because of the kind

(39:50):
of like haunting implications of religious paranoia of its time
and what do you do to your mind and your
your environment when you, uh, when you lean into it
in that way, say with the Lighthouse, it's paranoia, it's isolation,
it's lonely, this loneliness that brings about and you could

(40:14):
say repressed homosexuality. All of those things dip in and
out of the Tale of the And and they're very
focused like that. One's one family. Then you have the Lighthouse.
It's it is two people, you know, trapped in with
each other. It's almost imprisonment into their minds. When he

(40:34):
starts getting more money and broadening out and having more elements,
he I see, I see him having a problem. I
see him having a problem. The Northmen was a big
problem for me, even though it's a pretty typical vengeance tale.
I mean it's almost Shakespeare done in uh Norse, with
Norse history and mythology, and it does didn't work ultimately

(40:59):
from I think visually technically captivating, but there was a
lack of soul and a lack of humanity, which again
you could say that that's his purpose is he doesn't
see anything about the totality of vengeance having any stroke
of humanity within it, that it has been gone from
the very get go.

Speaker 5 (41:20):
And the same thing with those Faratu.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
It's a classic vampire movie, but it's done monstrously. It's
done purely in its nightmare vision, and I don't.

Speaker 5 (41:32):
Know if it really coalesces.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
I see the intention of performance from like Aaron Taylor Johnson,
he's the stuffy, arrogant, old school traditional he is part
of the old world or the new old money, you know,
and as no Saratu, the monster is what has we're
trying to leave behind, this aristocracy, that's an oppression on

(41:59):
the the lords, the nobleman, the bloodlines of Europe.

Speaker 5 (42:05):
And I just don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Again, it comes back to intention, It comes back to purpose,
and maybe I want to hear Charles what he has
to say in his familiarity with you know of these
adaptations and what you know if if you see any
cohesion or or were you also put off by the
the the differences in performances, the the kind of over

(42:32):
emphasis on horror and mood. I do think that Egger's
the longer he he stuffs us into and suffocates with
us in that in that arena it it actually doesn't
translate well in the longevity of the experience. I'm actually curious, Charles,
what you think.

Speaker 4 (42:54):
I think it kind of suffers by the obligation of
adaptation in that it plays very much like a theater play,
because if you know a little bit of the history
of Eggers love for nos Frautu as a piece, he
wrote a play for it, and that was his first

(43:14):
I guess directorial experience was doing a local production of
nos Fraud tou adaption and as a director, I love
Eggers and seeing The Witch those years ago first time
in a theater only having seen like a trailer for it,
and then being blown away by just the disturbingness of
that film and how deep and dark it gets into

(43:35):
the occult atmosphere of it. And as a historic one
of my first school projects was on the Salem Witch Trials,
so that felt affirming to me at that point in
time to see that done so well, and then The
Lighthouse very similar stories that I appreciated that the New

(43:56):
England loved Craftian drama of it and like paying homage
without like directly name dropping, and then the Northman similar
thing like you know what you're looking at, but you're
not really sure what you're referencing, and the fact that
No Saratu is the brand name of No s Feratu,
no less there is an expectation, and I think that

(44:16):
was my initial hiccup with it, But I was excited
that Beggars was putting in the time and effort to
do a Nosaratu adaption and thinking I'm like, is.

Speaker 3 (44:26):
This gonna knock my socks off? Is this gonna be
the craziest thing I've ever seen?

Speaker 4 (44:31):
Because each time I've seen this director's work, I have
been transported and impressed with just how nitty, gritty and
bizarre and just uncomfortable I feel watching the films, which
is as a film enthusiast, it's generally what I want,

(44:51):
because you know, by and large, and to say what
you're saying about the universal monster of it.

Speaker 3 (44:59):
Those are comfort food. That's like my mac.

Speaker 4 (45:02):
And cheese, Like I love to put those on and
just enjoy it and absorb the vibes of the vintage tones,
the very slanted dialogue, the things that you expect, And
I think that may be what I came away with this,
having the expectation of Egger's work previously, loving what he
had done and how weird it was.

Speaker 3 (45:24):
I didn't think this film tried to be weird enough.

Speaker 4 (45:28):
And by the time of credits, role and we're at
a place that I have seen time and time again,
you know, thrice prior. If we're including the Doug Jones adaptation,
which I actually got a screener to see a couple
of years ago. I met the man. It was a
great experience. I was like this is all too familiar.

(45:48):
And I think that was what was most disappointing to
me is by the time it happens, and I'm like,
I was waiting for the rug pull and I was
still standing firmly planted, waiting for that moment of him
to show us like this is why I did this,
And other than the beautiful visuals, other than the you know,
play like atmosphere of performances, neither here nor there.

Speaker 3 (46:10):
I have a note actually, because I watched.

Speaker 5 (46:12):
It last night.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
One of my notes was this is the best Aaron
Taylor Johnson has ever been.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
So take that what you will. You didn't see that coming.

Speaker 4 (46:22):
But the point is that I, as a fan of
all of it, came away feeling less than satisfied, if
only because I expected a grandiose like this is my statement,
and this is why you get this guy to do

(46:43):
this job because and like I said, the duty of obligation,
the obligation of adaption, and that he wanted to do
right by not only the novel but the films. And
I think that is where we kind of get this
stuck in the stand well.

Speaker 2 (47:00):
And then I guess to throw it to you, Sean,
and I don't know why I've turned myself into your host.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
I love it, to be honest with you, that's what
we do here.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
I I'm I'm curious because do you think you enjoyed it?
And don't don't talk down about yourself being not intelligent?

Speaker 5 (47:21):
What it is is, Uh do you do you?

Speaker 2 (47:24):
Did you find yourself just being willing to go along
this journey even though it was familiar to the other ones.

Speaker 1 (47:31):
Yeah, So, I guess when I sit down and watch
stuff like this, my expectations are always pretty low, at
least in terms of like, am I going to see
a new ideology or philosophy introduced to me that's going
to change the way I think, Like when you and

(47:52):
I did The South But I don't know how this
is happening right now, But I guess I'm mentioning South Park.
But when you and I were talking about South Park
the movie, I know that Trey and Matt are probably
going to change the way I think with comedy. For
whatever reason, I can go into these movies and I

(48:13):
just what I expect is a very formulaic delivery of something.
I just get to see an updated version of it,
and I.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
Think, oh, that's interesting. I want to follow up with
a question because I think this is crucial to maybe
somebody's or our particular enjoyments of this. With Robert Eggers,
I go into it with at least prior to this,
I am going into those Frau tou. I have expectation,
and it's because of what he had delivered prior, and

(48:50):
I don't think what he delivers often is formulaic.

Speaker 5 (48:53):
In fact, in.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
Fact, he invests so much detail and time research into
these time periods, especially The Witch, especially The Lighthouse, that
whether he takes influence from a lot of these other
Silent era films, I see a lot of his investment

(49:15):
into them. The fact that Blashkey's cinematography was like four
to three and black and white and was capturing what
photography was like at that time. Like, those decisions to
me are fascinating for a filmmaker. And that's why when
The Northman was coming out, I was deeply excited about

(49:37):
how he was going to interpret, you know, this classic
mode of vengeance mythology and how it instructs the society,
how it instructs.

Speaker 5 (49:49):
Of the law instructs the society.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
And I found myself wanting in that film in the
same way that I found myself wanting and knows Frautu
that the large sure his ambitions get and the more
studio involvement and expectation, you know, based off of what
are going what is going to be the earnings of
his particular movies, it feels as though he has been

(50:15):
able to leave behind that same dedication, that same investment
that he put into his earlier works. And that's what
was disappointing to me is you're talking about it as
though it's formulaic and sure.

Speaker 5 (50:29):
I think if you compare it to most.

Speaker 2 (50:31):
Formula driven horror that comes out every year, whether it's
from whether it's in the theaters, whether it's vod what
you know, we get a plethora of horror. If we
compare it to a lot of those things, I would
be in agreement with you, Sean.

Speaker 5 (50:46):
It sits above.

Speaker 2 (50:47):
And beyond a lot of it because of its visual
text here, because of its production design, because of its acting,
and it's the credibility behind a lot of it. But
because it's Eggers and I want to believe in him
as an auteur and a visionary, this severely let me down.
I think it let down Charles in the same way,
and it's it's and I think it's this difference of

(51:10):
how we approached our mental approach and going into the film.

Speaker 5 (51:14):
I just don't think it lives up to an Egger's.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
Capability in all of it, and in fact even in
the production design elements and getting us into that time period.

Speaker 5 (51:28):
Again again, I see it, but I don't feel it.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
It was a distinct difference between my experiences with like
The Witch and The Lighthouse.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
Yeah, I mean I I would agree with that, I
at least with the Witch. Just again, you know, I'm
always talking like I'm shot out of a cannon. But
did you guys ever see Hagazuzza? Kyle, you it's a
German I have not, either of you. No, Okay, Charles,
now watch that. I watched Hagazeusa before I saw The Witch.

(52:01):
So when I saw The Witch, I was just kind
of like, Eh, this is this is fine in comparison
to that movie because I found that it's a German film.
I want to say, I mean, I would pull it up,
but I want to say maybe two thousand and nine
to twenty twelve, one of the two. And I ultimately
because I saw that first I just thought The Witch

(52:24):
was fine. I mean, I think it's a very well
done film film. So in terms of expectations, I do
want to go back a little bit. Do you think
the fact and I know that Kyle knows this about me, Charles,
I don't think you do. Are you guys watching the
trailers for this stuff as you're going into it? So

(52:45):
there is even it could be even the smallest expectation
because me, when I found out that this movie was
coming out, and me just being the whore fan that
I am, I walked out of the theater during several
movies when the trade started to play because I don't
anymore these days. I don't want to have expectations at all.

(53:07):
And when I walk in blind like that, more often
than not, I'm not going to say it's one hundred percent,
but more often than not, I'm like, you know that
that I really enjoyed that because I didn't have a clue,
like I had a buddy of mine, and I plan
on seeing it this weekend hopefully. But Mickey seventeen, he
said the trailer showed him everything. I walked out of

(53:30):
the theater twice on two different movies when the trailer
for that started to play. So I don't I don't
have any thoughts or feelings going into it. I sit
down blind and and I let it write. Same with
a Nora Kyle. I obviously I had heard it in
the circles that the three of us run in. I

(53:52):
had heard of it, but I didn't know anything outside
of the fact that it had to do with a
essentially an escort a showgirl. And I watched it and
I was blown away. I was blown away because I
had zero expectations. And there's a part of me that
feels like if I would have saw trailers for that,
it might have lessened the impact that it had on me.

(54:17):
But yeah, I don't know where the hell I'm going
with this other than.

Speaker 5 (54:21):
It's a good question.

Speaker 2 (54:22):
And I actually respect your removal from trailers because I
see a movie. I see about two movies a week
in the theater, and I'm just I go on time
because I'm stupid, and I should just put the time
difference of the trailers, and I just I'm a little

(54:43):
tired of trailers.

Speaker 5 (54:44):
And I do agree with you.

Speaker 6 (54:46):
I don't necessarily think it had anything to do with
my own investment or my own preoccupations or my own
ideas of what I was going to get based off
the trailer.

Speaker 5 (54:56):
But I did see that trailer.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Many, many, many many times, and so I don't know
there's something to it.

Speaker 4 (55:03):
How do you feel, Charles, Well, I think there's something
so special about this this particular trailer in that, Yeah,
I had seen it a lot leading up to it.
But the most compelling thing was that they did not
show the count at all, like it was alluded to.
We never got a full disclosure of what he looked
like up until even the movie's release, Like there was
not a picture online to be found, and like I'm

(55:26):
part of all sorts of groups and Instagram posting accounts
that could very well have spoiled it for me. But
up until actually seeing the film, I didn't know, which
I think is a great motivator to see the film
the way that I did. But also I think just
a testament to this film's the marketing, which I think

(55:48):
led up a lot into my expectation of the film.
And if we can get into that a little bit,
the fact that they had those popcorn buckets, those godfors
Sake and sarcophagus pop corn buckets.

Speaker 3 (56:01):
I don't know if either of you.

Speaker 4 (56:02):
Got your hands on one, But I was scoping those
out weeks in advance because I knew that they would
make some excellent Christmas gifts or.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Vessels for them.

Speaker 4 (56:14):
So I was calling theaters a week of I was
making sure of it, like hey, are you gonna get
these in? And they either have no idea what I'm
talking about or they're like, yeah, we can't sell them
until the first showing on that Thursday or some nonsense.
So I'm going there the day before trying to scope
one out, and then finally, if I can say, I

(56:34):
finally got my hands on one because they had a
nine o'clock showing and I got there at like six
and they're like yeah, And I wasn't going to see
it that day, so they're like, yeah, we can't sell
it until the nine o'clock showing, so you can come back.
And I'm like, but it's right there, could you just
sell it to me? And then, you know, the first
person says no, and then I'm like, is there a
manager around? So I waited until and they did, in

(56:56):
fact sell me one, and then I seated to travel
to another theater and do the same shick.

Speaker 3 (57:03):
So I ended up with.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Three oh three of them.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Was my evil little plan.

Speaker 4 (57:11):
So I'm walking out of a theater and they include
the popcorn, but you don't have to put it in.
So I'm walking out with two of those and two
large popcorns, feeling like a champion for my you know,
evil scheme.

Speaker 3 (57:24):
But that alone was like a hyping like machine, because
you saw those pulse online, you saw people talking about it,
you saw some theaters get the actual life size coffins,
and that to me is like so compelling because that's
what I live for. The movie tie in no less
and especially brings me back to growing up when they

(57:47):
had the damn the Burger King kids.

Speaker 4 (57:49):
Meals with the Universal monsters and stuff like the Nibisco cookies.

Speaker 3 (57:55):
That's my speed. That's the thing that keeps me alive.

Speaker 4 (58:00):
The fact that I was able to go to that
theater of the day that I saw it and could
get mazzarella sticks in a little sarcophagus, Like can can.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
You do better than that? I don't see anything.

Speaker 4 (58:16):
That's what I'm saying is like that is what keeps
me motivated. And I think all of that in like,
it was a very interesting period of time leading up
to all of that anyway for me, But this was
like my candle in the dark of like at least
I get to see this gothic retelling by one of

(58:37):
my favorite modern directors of a story that I should
know so well. But maybe he's gonna show me something different.
And I really may have hyped myself up. So I
have a good example of somebody that may be fed
into the hype a little too much.

Speaker 5 (58:50):
That's fair.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
And then there's also people who get hyped up and
then they tell themselves because they've hyped themselves up, that
it was good and that can't possibly have been bad.
You know, there are different mindsets to this all, you know.
I I do like to think that I'm a very pragmatic,
reasonable person and that I am not swayed, you know,

(59:13):
because I'll go into almost anything with expectation, even with
with with just a synopsis, you know, oh that, oh,
who's who's directing it, who's in it?

Speaker 5 (59:23):
It already gives you expectation if you're a knowledgeable sinophile,
you know, if you're a knowledgeable moviegoer.

Speaker 1 (59:31):
And so I don't know, I've been waiting for Havoc
for four years.

Speaker 5 (59:35):
Now you're getting it. You're getting it it.

Speaker 1 (59:38):
Oh my gosh, I've been waiting so long.

Speaker 5 (59:40):
Bro. Yeah, it's finally coming.

Speaker 2 (59:43):
Yeah, it's you know, it's just and and will it
live up to that expectation, Sean, are you gonna want?

Speaker 5 (59:48):
But maybe? But maybe you'll have a good time. You know.
It's just it's all a balance.

Speaker 2 (59:53):
And I think Knows fought to let me down in
similar ways.

Speaker 5 (59:57):
And it's because.

Speaker 2 (59:59):
I I wanted a retelling that had purpose.

Speaker 5 (01:00:05):
And it comes back to it. I've reiterated the point.
I think Hurtzog had purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:00:11):
You know, he saw that he was inspired by the
original and wanted to invert things about it and its assumptions.
And then and then you have franss for Coppola and
wants to take it into its its fullness. It's the
fullness of what that story and its implications, its history,

(01:00:31):
it's time are.

Speaker 5 (01:00:33):
Meant to convey.

Speaker 2 (01:00:35):
And then you have Eggers who puts on a gloss
and achine and it tells the same inversion as Hertzog,
you know, hits the same thematic notes as as Coppola.
And for me, I was like, okay, that's fair, and
I didn't walk out going that was garbage. One star

(01:00:55):
on letterboxed. I hate those people, you know. I try
and assess it work for its totality, and I think
it's a competently made work.

Speaker 5 (01:01:06):
It's not completely.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
Botched in a sense of performance, but it is a
work that I do think is hollow and in a
weird way that I think requires a bit of humanity
and psychology to bring us to. If you're going to
make something completely immersed in any humanity and monstrousness, you

(01:01:30):
have to have a little bit of a counterbalance.

Speaker 5 (01:01:32):
And Edgar's just dropped the ball in that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:35):
You know that, Like it's funny you say hollow, like
I obviously I didn't walk out feeling like this. I
did walk out of Companion feeling like it was hollow though,
like there was something I don't know what it was.
For those of you that are listening, or you two,
if you've seen it, that's what I felt like walking
out of Companion. I was just like, yeah, but dot

(01:01:59):
do you know, Like, yeah, this worked here, But I
don't know if I give a shit about the main character,
Like there is this whole thing. I don't know why
I'm derailing. So anyway, we are gonna wind down. Oh,
don't get me started out of the Wolfman. Yeah, don't
get me started if you literally And here's the thing
about wolf Man. If you would have called it anything

(01:02:20):
but wolf Man, I thought I would have been fine
with it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:23):
But sure, nothing happens in that movie.

Speaker 4 (01:02:29):
I was.

Speaker 2 (01:02:31):
I was actually really impressed by how much they designed
a script to have nothing happen. Like they would go
to the barn and I'm like, Okay, they're out of
the house. They have to keep going now, and then
they went seemed somehow made it.

Speaker 5 (01:02:44):
Back into the house.

Speaker 2 (01:02:45):
I was like, Okay, guys, that's the really bad that's
really bad.

Speaker 5 (01:02:51):
Man, for real. I want to know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:57):
So there is a couple things in cl that we're
going to talk about and buy enclosing. It is probably
gonna take us fucking fifteen minutes to get through, but
it's fine. I'm having fun here. So out of the three,
how do we rate them? Charles? I'll start with you,
how do how do we rank them? Even though it's
kind of weird to me, I don't the older I

(01:03:19):
get in life, it's it's it feels weird to me
to come up with like a list like and I know,
Kyle's the same way, Like, it's very hard to say
what my favorite movie is anymore. Like it just kind
of to put you know, No Country for Old Men
over Jaws. It feel like, I don't know, it just

(01:03:40):
doesn't feel right anymore. And even though if you'd asked
me fifteen years ago, oh, name your five and I would,
you know, rip those off, But now it feels I
don't know, there's something about it. But since this is
the same story, how are we going to rank them? Kyle?
I'll toss it over for you to start it off,

(01:04:00):
will go Charles, and then I'll give you my take. So,
so how do how do we feel about the three?

Speaker 5 (01:04:06):
It's hard. It's especially because the original.

Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Is a masterpiece like it it just just in in
the silent era form and utilizing its techniques, utilizing its shadow,
its visual ability of storytelling.

Speaker 5 (01:04:21):
It's masterpiece.

Speaker 2 (01:04:22):
FW Murnaw is one of the most influential German expressionists.
And it's unfortunate he didn't live very long. You know,
I think he died in a car accident with his
gay lover. I think was was. He was very openly gay,
and it's it's unfortunate he didn't survive at the time period,

(01:04:43):
because who knows what he would have had an impact in,
say the B movies in noir era. You know that
that that he could have had a great sense of
of visual control on.

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
But I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
I have a huge fondness for Hertzogs for some weird reason,
I might rate that first, and I think it's because
of putting Lucy in a much more controlled state of
the story.

Speaker 5 (01:05:12):
I think that there is a lot to gain.

Speaker 2 (01:05:17):
In interpreting it in that way, and especially in that
battle of seduction between no Spatu and Lucy. There's something
about that that sticks with me. And there's something eerily
haunting about about how he tells retells that story. I

(01:05:40):
think I would put them in very close like that
would be first, and then the original would be second,
and then this No Saratu would definitely be third.

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
Charles, what about you?

Speaker 4 (01:05:54):
I probably sit in that same boat, if only because
of how perfectly final the Herzog film feels. I go
back to that one more than really any of the
other adaptations. Isabella Johnny is just captivating that film. I

(01:06:15):
love the opening imagery, the slow motion of the bat,
all the things that he just like kind of zeros
in on and then you kind of get this weird
descent into it. And then that characterization of the count
who is Dracula in the film, which I think I
take the biggest issue with with this the new adaption.

(01:06:37):
That's what's so strange is that we're calling it no
s Faratu, but we're doing all the things that Dracula is.
And I know it's hard to divorce the two, but
I think maybe that's my biggest issue with the modern
adaption is that ed you had just called this Dracula,
I might give it a lot more leeway. But the

(01:06:58):
fact that we're going as far to call it by
the name now s Faratu and not knows the vampire,
but by its god given uh or should I say
twenty two version, we're going to go that far. That's
a whole esthetic in a style and a character that
Max Shrek clearly created just based on the graces of

(01:07:23):
I don't know what a cult ritual, but the fact
that they were able to pull that off then and
now the modern adaption, I think a lot of people
get hung up on this.

Speaker 3 (01:07:33):
This this mustache, the.

Speaker 5 (01:07:36):
Doctor, he's yeah, he's doctor Robotnik's dad.

Speaker 3 (01:07:39):
In question three, and.

Speaker 4 (01:07:43):
As somebody, I love the memes where you see the
Jim Carrey face and they're like, nos fortu. But isn't
it odd that Egger's being, you know, renowned for being
a stickler to tradition and originality or rather true to
life adaptions historical accuracy. That yes, I understand the want

(01:08:06):
and desire to make it look like Vlad Tepesh. I
get it, I understand, but that was Dracula and you
were doing no sparazu, my friend. Who if we're not
going to go into the rat like parody, and that's
clearly the intention of the original FW film, why are

(01:08:27):
we going so far into the Dracula mythos?

Speaker 3 (01:08:31):
Neither here nor there?

Speaker 2 (01:08:32):
Yeah, especially with how much rats are used in this
movie as well.

Speaker 3 (01:08:36):
Yeah, that's the rat Dracula.

Speaker 5 (01:08:38):
This idea of the.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Plague, you know that that weighs so heavy on the original,
like the Spanish flu that happened only four years earlier.
It's such a thematic dominant thematic device and visual motif,
and they use it, they copy it, but it's not
followed through here.

Speaker 4 (01:08:58):
And so the question being that and endless praise to
the FW Murnau film.

Speaker 3 (01:09:07):
But yeah, I would would call it the Hertzog the
Murnow and now the Eggers. In my three and one
last little criticism for Eggers, if you will, we're talking
about historical accuracy. We're saying that this is no Saratu.
This takes place in where Germany? Why is everyone English?

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
Yeah, because we've had an English speaking Dracula cast in
the book tells you that they're going to England, and
that makes perfect sense, and I don't have issue with that.
But we're in Germany. M Why did you need a boat?
I was asking the questions.

Speaker 1 (01:09:49):
I just I just have questions. Well, I think I'm
actually going to surprise you guys. I actually will do
it in order if I'm If I'm being honest with you,
I would do twenty two, seventy nine, twenty four. I
like it. I like all of them. I just it.

(01:10:10):
There was like I said, I think I'm able at
the beginning of the show. I think I'm just able
to kind of. I don't. I'm not looking for anything
new when I walk into this particular film. I mean,
it'll be fine if you know, if technically we've improved
on some things, But Ultimately, I think that's why it

(01:10:33):
hit for me. I thought the performances were good, I
thought the look was good. But to me, you know,
I think, if you're not a not a centophile, but
you've seen all three films, you might go three two one,
you might go back to the other way because you're
you may not be familiar with these types of films.
But that was a great weekend for me. Boys. I

(01:10:56):
watched the original with my partner, I watched the Herzog
and then I watch this one and I was just like,
this is great. Like I I I don't know I
would do I would do one, two three I for
all different reasons. Like I think still to this day,
I may say Scars Guards portrayal, it's easy for me

(01:11:21):
to say that it's my favorite, but I think that
Max is just doing a lot more with very little.
But I walked out of the film and I just
thought they're collectively, they're all good. I would recommend them
to any horror fan or just a movie fan in general,

(01:11:42):
because I just think that they're all good films. But
Kyle and Charles, you just gotta go no expectations, Fellas,
no no expectation. I know that we we I'm glad
where this comra sation went. We hit on some things
that I wanted to talk about. We I, as your host,

(01:12:05):
whiffed on some things that I wanted to address. But seriously, guys,
thank you for coming on the show. This was actually
not that I didn't think it was going to be fun,
but great time. You know, it's fun. It's actually refreshing
to disagree with more than one person and not feel
like I'm being personally attacked. I don't know where we

(01:12:28):
decided to take that turn as a culture where it's
all or nothing, but I would love to have both
of you guys back on again. I know that we
have talked about possibly doing Abbott and Costello, the three
of us.

Speaker 3 (01:12:42):
But.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
We could do we can do wolf Man. But I
just wanted to tell you thank you, thank you, thank you,
and I hope you guys will come on the show
again soon.

Speaker 5 (01:12:55):
Absolutely, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, thank you. Sean.

Speaker 4 (01:12:58):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
I just want to say, you know, because coming in,
I was, like you already said, I was like anticipating
getting bullied, you know, because I don't I don't like
being the negative person exiting the theater. When I came
out with a good portion of my family and my wife.
I was the one who enjoyed the movie the least
like everybody else, you know. I had my brother. One

(01:13:22):
of my brothers was like, I loved it, and then
another one was like it was pretty good. And my
wife was like, I liked it, and I was like,
I didn't like it. And then we were talking about
it and she's like, how would you rank it? And
I'm like, I don't know, six out of ten at most,
and she's like, oh, that's what I would have given it.
And I'm like, oh, okay, so we're just on the
different angle of like you're a six. But I liked it,
and she's like, oh, I realized that there are problems,

(01:13:45):
but I enjoyed watching it. And I said, that's fair.
I think I don't like being the negative person. I
want people to enjoy most of their cinematic experiences. And
I'm I never want to enter an online sphere or
a podcast to be like I'm gonna take I'm gonna
yuck their youngs and I'm to take away the enjoyment
that they have out of something. I will express what
I liked or disliked about about something. And I'm gonna

(01:14:08):
be honest, but I'm not going to be insulting. I
think that that's a very key element because we all
come to it, and I think we all expressed.

Speaker 5 (01:14:16):
It personally here today.

Speaker 2 (01:14:19):
It's like Charles said, I was disappointed because of such
such and such things. This was my experience, and I
did the same, and Sean you said, I enjoyed it
because I connected and I honed into these particular qualities.
That's what's beautiful about movies. It's beautiful about the experience
of movies is we can all have different ideas, experiences, interpretations, translations,

(01:14:41):
and thank you for allowing us to, you know, expose
all of this today.

Speaker 5 (01:14:46):
So thanks for having us.

Speaker 1 (01:14:48):
Thank you guys real quick before I let you go
go ahead and plug where they can get you at
you on the bullshit socials before we get out of here,
Charles you first, because you you're you got tons of hooks,
my man, you got tons of hooks that way.

Speaker 4 (01:15:06):
Well, one last thing I will say that I did
just rewatch this film last night, and I've come away
with it with one more final take in that although
I don't think it's the perfect nose for Ratu remake.

Speaker 3 (01:15:19):
It's actually a very faithful Faust remake.

Speaker 4 (01:15:24):
And if you see there's plenty, there's plenty to get
glean from that. You can find me on my personals
just spooky underscore Charles, and that links you to any
of my music and art. I'm at Wicker Casket for
my art stuff. I'm at oh Boy, three different music pages.

(01:15:44):
As Sean mentioned, the deceased, the Picasso's all one word,
Lonesome Skeleton Band, All one word, and then the Sad
Hour Band because somebody else took the Sad Hour and
I can't just have without the band.

Speaker 3 (01:15:56):
But that's not part of a name.

Speaker 1 (01:15:58):
That's it, Kyle, You.

Speaker 5 (01:16:03):
Nice Faust Pole. That's a great F. W. Murnow movie.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
If if if you're gonna go down this road, you
gotta do it. You gotta watch these older movies. That
that movie is phenomenal. And I mean because most people
just talk about us for all two in Sunrise, but Faust,
it's a great film. Yeah, you can find my show.
It's I know movies and you don't. And uh, it's facetious.

(01:16:29):
And Sean keeps saying that I know movies, but it's
it's just a film history. Theory Podcast and we've we're
now in season eleven coming out right now, and so
we're over five hundred episodes.

Speaker 5 (01:16:42):
It's been a great project.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
And so you can find like on Instagram at I
K M A Y D. You know, just uh the
and that's really it. I'm not really active on Facebook.
Instagram is where I share everything. You can follow the
show on pull podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen,

(01:17:03):
and we'd appreciate you checking us out. You don't have
to start at the beginning, you don't have to start
in any particular season. We've done ten seasons. Sean's graciously
been part of it many many times, like No Country
for Old Men or RoboCop or Aven and Costellomi Franken
San which we have talked before.

Speaker 5 (01:17:23):
But yeah, check check it out.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
We'd love to have you. And right now we're doing
cult movies. Son of Cult Flicks is what it's called.
Episode came out today Strange Brew Friday. I think it's Funeral.
Parade of Roses is the movie that's coming out.

Speaker 5 (01:17:41):
So that's what's going on.

Speaker 1 (01:17:44):
I love it. Gentlemen, Thank you again, and hopefully we
will talk soon. So have a good day. Gentlemen.

Speaker 3 (01:17:54):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:17:58):
All right, So we are going to get Charles and
Kyle out of here. What a great show, Gang, What
a great show. Like I I knew, I knew that
it was gonna be good and it was gonna be cohesive.
I just sometimes you never know how you know, well,

(01:18:18):
two people that have never met with each other, they
just they just know me. It could have you know,
it could have steered in a different direction. But uh,
that was that was fucking fantastic. I had such a
good time. It's nice to be able to explore movies
like this with people from all over the country. You

(01:18:38):
got Kyle, you know, twenty nine hundred miles away in California.
You got Charles a couple hours north of me. And
this is why I do it, Gang, Like, yes, it's
fun to talk about movies, but I love hearing new perspectives.
That's why, you know, I thought for this in particular,

(01:19:00):
especially after I heard kind of how they felt about
it in comparison to me, I was like, that's the show.
That's the show right there. I want you to to
come in and challenge me, and they did, like I
definitely there is there are things that both Charles and
Kyle said that it's like, oh fuck, like I wish

(01:19:20):
I didn't There there was a brief moment where Charles
and Kyle were talking. I'm like, oh, man, yeah, I
hate having my perspective changed. If I'm if in the moment,
I'm not willing to do it, But ultimately I end
up loving it because I'm just like, you know what,
that's a great way to look at that particular scene

(01:19:42):
or the tone of the film. So thank you again
to both of them for coming on. Well gang, it's
it's it's been. It's been a while since I've been on.
We'll try to keep you know, the the consistent see going.
But it's just so much better to talk with other people.

(01:20:04):
So Ellis Cinema, Nosferatu, Kyle Brule, Charles Urban, I know movies,
and you don't. Loane some Skeleton Band, the Sad Hour Band,
Elli Cinema, We Gone

Speaker 3 (01:20:34):
Recording stopped