September 17, 2025 • 29 mins
Empowered Living With Jeff Byrd | Guest: Barbara Valentine Gustavson
Welcome to Empowered Living. Listen as Jeff tackles critical issues in a way that brings "Insight for business, leadership, and life!
https://www.talknetworkradio.com/hosts/EmpoweredLiving
Welcome to Empowered Living. Listen as Jeff tackles critical issues in a way that brings "Insight for business, leadership, and life!
https://www.talknetworkradio.com/hosts/EmpoweredLiving
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:29):
Hello, this is Gabriella on the scene today with Top
Network Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We have a real treat for you just around the corner,
and that is Empowered Living with Jeff Bird.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Jeff is the owner of Jeffrey Ber Coaching and he
will be coming to you weekly to teach you more.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
About empowered living.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Now, let's join Jeff already in the studio. Hello, and
welcome Jeff Bird, Jeffrey Bird Coaching, and this is Empowered
Living Now. Today, we are again so privileged to have
a very special guest with us in the studio. She
is my longest standing friend. I've known her since I.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Was four years old in kindergarten.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
She has played a huge role in my own life
and development and even the business that I have today
as a coach. She is Barbara Valentine Gustavson. She's the
founder of Discover Next Step. She's an executive coach, and
she is the author of this brand new book, Permission
(01:37):
to Be Bold. This is a book on loving yourself,
living fully and making your mark on the world. Barbara,
thank you so much for joining us again for today's show.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Jess, I'm brilliant enjoying the conversation.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I'm excited to be here, wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, for those of you in case you're just tuning
in and you don't know, this is part two of
the conversation we're having with Barbara. Now, if you missed
the first part, I highly recommend that you go back
and listen to it.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Barbara has shared with us.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
A whole lot about her journey from being very reserved,
being very.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Shy, not giving herself permission to be.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Bold in a lot of ways that have changed her
life and really as a result, are now changing a
lot of other people's lives. And the last time, what
we looked at was primarily her story and where she
had come from, where she's gotten to now some of
that journey, But on this part, what I wanted to
do is focus in on how she is now helping
(02:46):
other people as you and me, to give ourselves permission
to be bold.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
So, Barbara, what I'd like to do is just just
jump right in.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And because you're a coach, you're an executative coach, you're
a speaker, you're an author, and you come across a
lot of people and as we mentioned on the last show,
it's it's very very frequent that we find people and
we just know that they've got something that they're going
to be so fulfilled when they unleash and get out
(03:18):
there in the world, and it's going to make a
difference in other people's lives.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
But there are just hindrance this so many people, very
often they live their entire lives.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You and I have seen this, and it's tragic, and
they just never have done what they could have done,
what they would have loved doing, and what would have
impacted others. So I'd like it if I can ask
you to talk to us for a few minutes about
what are some of those hindrances that you commonly see
in people, What do those look like, and how do
(03:48):
you help move them past those hindrances get them unstuck
because we all know that stuck stinks.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
No matter what level you're at.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
How do you get people unstuck and help them move
forward on their journey of giving themselves permission to be
bold and becoming really who they're meant to me?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
Yeah, and so I shared a couple of hindrances in
the previous segments. H and I'll touch on this a
little bit more and then more when when I'm working
with people r. Sometimes I'm working with those that would
have the same personality as I do instroverts. They're excited
about their growth and their journey, but when they actually
(04:30):
start taking the steps, they're like, whoa.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
This is terrifying.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
And so yeah, sometimes we get caught into the belief
that we have to have a personality or a trait
to step boldly, and that just.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Is not true.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
No matter how many time recurred or seen it, you know,
or views of the world, you know, there's boldness inside
all of it. And so when I'm helping someone really
take steps through that, it's really about getting to know yourself.
And there's that quote and Jeff remind me, probably know
so that I felt.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I can't remember if it's Plato or Socrates, one of
the great said it, they know themselves? Who was that?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
You know what? I know the quote very well, but
I can't tell you who it was that originally said it.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
Either it's to thyself. But I tell you those are
two of the most empowering words. But it's also.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Difficult because it's of you know, we're player and it's
a process of digging. It's like finding for the gold.
Speaker 6 (05:35):
In ourselves and to get to know ourselves. You know,
it's it's not just about finding out information, but it's
using what we find makes our life work better. It's
here and to connect with others. More so for me
and and for my clients, it's really getting to know
when our energy style is, when are we most productive?
(05:59):
What you know, how do we best connect with other people?
How do we reach hard you know, with our personality,
our learning styles. So there's just this plethora of it's
just like you.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
Know, a treasure map.
Speaker 6 (06:14):
We don't want to discovering things about ourselves, and I
feel that's really never ending. It's that idea of you know,
there is unlimited potential. There's unlimited things about us, and
what we see now is what we see now.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
We don't see it all.
Speaker 6 (06:31):
There's more and the people we go to more uncover.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
So that's an area that I find that, you know,
the more people themselves and they aligned those with their
goals and the and the mature road map that traded together.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
And so that's a.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Very important school that we work on together. Another part
of this is and I find one of the instances
there might be someone who their business is exploding against
something advice that happened they're with their house or a
loved one. They're just in that season where they're not
(07:11):
able to give it mail and they've gone into this.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
The survival note. But again they have this amazing composity,
so really examining and giving themselves permission to know we're
people back, but also no word bord and how can
you make this season of growth, We're doable for you?
(07:37):
So that because it's still.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Fris that all this is happening. And then it said,
you know, all of a sudden, everything flamorous, but it
seems that you're not.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Going to give up on you just because it is happening.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yes, it's gonna look very different. And the best example
I could give, and I write the storyands the book up.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
I love sharing other stories at that point I learned
those from but it's your friend parents, uh uh. Because
her coaching business was exploding and super excited, her husband
was injured in the line of the police force and
so life became very different for her. Family became caretakers,
(08:22):
and so she had his choice to either just completely
put everything on hold or to you know, rewrite the script.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
How am I going lived through this? So I love
how to approach this you think of, you know, we're
on our journey, you know, our family's on the journey
that she called it her crook in journey. But she
realizes they're.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Never going to be staying or the thing.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
It's all going to be different, and so she has
determined enjoy that crooked journey no matter the twists and
turns the thing. And she is growing and she's doing
what she needs to do in a life. And just
here aship waits to have that perspective where she could
have had it completely different, you know, out Pops could
(09:09):
have so completely give up on her dream, which wasn't
too I think really examining that current summer a little
bit longer, that's getting clear on what.
Speaker 7 (09:20):
PSISI is to that extent, and know that sometimes you
live in multiple other things that's happening on the home front,
and that does that make sense to you when I
kind of expand.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It like that, Yeah, you know, that's extremely helpful. And
as you were were explaining that, you know, it just
came to me that some of the most influential people
in the world that we most respect are ones who
gained that influence out of the difficult seasons, out of
the challenges. I think of Alexander Sultan's and then Malala
(09:53):
who was shot and left for dead. And now the
next year was Time Magazine's UH cover for the one
hundred most Influential People in the world. You know, Mandela,
Abraham Lincoln, Maya Angelas. So many people have gained their
deepest voice and their greatest influence through those seasons that
they never would have wanted, but yet they they somehow
(10:17):
enhanced and expanded what was already there, and they became
something that may have never otherwise been possible.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
Right absolutely, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And one of the chapters, I think it was chapter
six growth both.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
In my book there, I did a little bit of
research on treed and there's a a poem and they're
about the growth of.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
The growth of trees when it.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Goes towards and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
So I took a little bit.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Further just to see that it's true.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
And University of Arizona back to the early stouthand they
did this experiment it's called bios here to look it up,
there's article but it. But what they did they created
this like giant glass bubble of free or four acres
and they created the cold system that was self distinct
and it was two There was an animals and it
(11:17):
was tradeful and the trees were just words and they
threw very less.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
But what happened was after a couple of years, a
lot of the trees that were straight called they fell
over and they were like.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Why is that happening?
Speaker 7 (11:31):
And the thing to be kind of.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
A reoccurring things. But what they found was when they
went further was there was no wind or storm or
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And when they started researching, they found that the presence
of wind and stuff like that, it helps the trees
more flexible.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
And then then but what it does inside, it actually
creates the stress wood that makes the trees stronger and
helps the roots from so they're with with you know,
they're able to stand that. But what was happening because.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
They didn't have that win when they were getting so
heavy at they just fell right over.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
And that just really starts work with me because I realized,
you know, we have the choice not of our circumstances
a lot, but.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
We have the choice on it will allow it to
help us become more brilliant, more fusible. And we had
a lot of growth challenge.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
Often come out soccer. Isn't that about the tree?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Well, Barbara, I love uh, I love that you mentioned
tree and uh, how they're strengthened through the storms. You know,
one of my favorite trees are the giant sequoias, which
I've had the privilege to see out in California. And
you know, when doing some research on them, I found
out that the little steed pods, they're very very small
steed pods, and they have this leathery substance and the
(12:58):
steeds can't be leased unless unless a forest fire comes
along and burns off.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
That leathery exterior.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And then the fire also clears the ground so that
the seed can get in touch with the soil and
the nutrients it needs. And the fire clears out the
underbrush that would block the light.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
From the seed so that it can get light.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So the challenges like the ones you've mentioned with the trees,
you know, subjecting them to the winds and which strengthen them,
or if it's the fire that comes through, all of
those things that seem to be negative things that we
want to avoid so much in our lives are actually
the things that create the greatest strength and resilience and growth.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I just I just absolutely love that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And we had just a little bit of a technological
snap just a minute ago.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
But I wanted to tell you that, Chuck, you had mentioned.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
The quote know thyself in the first part of what
you responded, and that was Socrates actually, but I want
to follow up too in what you had mentioned the
first on knowing yourself and not having to have a
particular personality, and I just wanted to say that I'm
so relieved that I don't have to be Tony Robbins
(14:11):
in order to have an impact on somebody, because I'm
never going to have that chiseled of a jaw in
my life, I don't think.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
So that's the.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Relief to know that I can figure out who I
am and what I'm good at and put it to
use and make a difference without having to live up
to the image of someone else.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, and that's important thing.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
When I realized that I didn't have to see anybody
but me, there is it's a huge lead. I didn't
realize how much pressure I had been putting on myself.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
To try to be, you know, someone who's energetic, charismatic.
We all have Christhma, it just looks differently for us,
you know. When we find what our own christha is,
that's our authoric self, and when we share that with people,
that's a gift.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That we're giving stuff hey man, and ourselves that's just
so beautiful. It's you know, like I've said for years
that everybody's beautiful if you see them with the right eyes,
you know, and uh, maybe seeing ourselves with those right
eyes too, and seeing just the beauty and the uniqueness
that we've got that nobody else does and nobody else
can do what we can do with the same gifts
(15:20):
and the same passion and the same personality.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
So thank Heavens and thank.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
God that that uh, there's no cookie cutters here.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
We all have something very unique about us and unique
to do we do.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I know for me, when I was discovering you know,
what is sneak about me? That was another journey to
And some people are able to see that big picture
really quickly.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
They have that vision of you know, what they surbute
through the world.
Speaker 8 (15:49):
And when you don't see that vision or even see.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
A lot, you know, because of using you don't you know,
it's like what direction do I go in? And so
I there were times where it's just felt like a
stepping foot bogs.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
And I realize that I don't have all in fun.
Speaker 8 (16:10):
Of me right now.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
As long as I'm taking you know, as long as
I focus the step that I'm on right now and
fully utilize that, you know, the next step will.
Speaker 8 (16:19):
Become clear and I'll know when to take that the
disgusting that you are on the right huff, even if
you don't see the big picture or even many pieces
right now.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But eventually they're going to sit together.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Wow wow.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
And so so we've talked about knowing ourselves and embracing
that uniqueness and then not staying off course, you know
during the storms, those things are coming to make us
stronger and having the different seasons, but realizing that that
they're all part of it, and that what what are
some other some other issues maybe uh or hindrances that
(16:57):
you see the people giving themselves that permission to be
bold that might be of value to.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Those listening today.
Speaker 8 (17:05):
Yeah, So when that comes up often of fear, you know,
there's different kinds of fear, and fear was something that.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
I used to try to like destroy a diholate too.
And I realized that when I'm focused on fighting my fear,
it actually grows. So when I'm working with people, you know,
it's important to know ourselves what you know, fears we
experience and where some.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
Of the fears are coming from. But not to keep
that as on my focus, you know, use it more
as you know, like if you're driving a car, you have,
you know, the fear in front of you to see
what's behind you, you know, tasily look at it.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
It's kind of track of where you are.
Speaker 8 (17:48):
But don't let that see what you're focusing down the road.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
And it's so what we typically do is, you know,
we focus on what we're learning from our fears. You know,
what are they saying about it? So we're also kind
of taking a different approach.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
We're focusing on what.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Can we create, what can we get excited about? Because
often we stay focused on what we think is wrong
with us, what needs to be fixing, and we don't
focus on what is going right, but what can we
get excited about? So what I do is I often
take your focus completely off of here. We focus on, Okay,
(18:28):
you know, what can you do to give yourself more joy?
You know, what makes you come alive? And so that
becomes a focus on enjoying your journey or intentionally you know,
with what you know, you know what helps.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You to create. And so my post what have I
posted to see encouraged me to say a blist list
and what makes it happy and and so it's kind
of like go to tape. Like if I'm having a
you know, kind of feeling blue and a any day,
I'll go to that list and help them kind of
come up with an idea of something I can do
that day. That just my focus. I have a gratitude
(19:09):
book that I've created the things that makes me happy,
and so just bring me these things in that help
me pack to my factivity, help take the focus on
my fear. And so it's I see it as a
healthy distraction, an interrupt for fear and austen it just
takes a little interruption.
Speaker 8 (19:31):
Dissipate that fear or bring it down a few notches.
But definitely fear has been a entrance with some of
my clients.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Sometimes it's more debilitating, other times it's more just the
of you know, aggravation.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
And again the thing, the idea is not to.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
Annihilate it, but take accident of depite the fear, you know,
do it afraid. I hear that statement a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It is just where we build our off that they're
doing it even if it's.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Uncomfortable, right.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
And one of the things that comes to mind is
a quote from our mentor Paul Martinelli as well, and
he likes to talk about the law of polarity, and
if you could picture something going wrong, you can just
as easily picture something going right, you know, and putting
putting those images in your mind. But while we're on
(20:25):
the topic of fear, I want to ask you a question.
And I think for most of us, when we think
about fear, when that word comes up, we think of
what's going to go wrong?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
What am I going to fail at? What am I
going to look dumb at? You know?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
What?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Am I going to not know how to do? What
are other people better at than me? But I want
to ask you about this, what.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
About the fear of success?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And what I have recently been coming more attuned to
this and that sometimes people aren't nearly as afraid of failing.
As a matter of fact, they feel like they've been
failing all their lives and they've kind of adjusted to it.
They're not afraid so much of another failure, as what
will it mean if they succeed? Could you maybe give
(21:09):
us a few parents from personal experience of those.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Who worked with on that fear of success.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, Oh, another good one that comes up a lot.
I've struggled with this personally, and so there's different reasons
why people can be fearful of success.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
It could be the.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Fear of teaking on more responsibility when they are already
you know, the blued, so many other things around them
and you know they you know, it could be fear
if it's not the right time, or fear of what.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
People will say.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
There's one, uh that I write about in my book
is the thing called topsy speech syndrome all toppy syndrome.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You can google that. And basically this is like way
back in the Star Bass, like a long time ago.
But it was this idea, you know, like coffy flowers
were all and straight and they're supposed to be.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
Uniform when they kept them in fields.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
But every now and then there'd be puppies that grow
taller and they would kind of black them down to
make some uniforms. And there was this king that's.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
Kind of pointed out to describe how, you know, a
certain group of people we didn't want they didn't want
to allow them to get taller or become more nobler,
if to describe, you know, we would just cut them down.
And that was a long time ago, but today it
still plays out.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
When we'd see people who are successful, like actors, you know,
different extiatements, there's this fear becoming successful because others might
try to cut us down, and you know, and.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
People might start thinking they'd start growing that then there's
a fear like who am I to do this? You
know what were all the people think of me?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You know what?
Speaker 6 (22:59):
Have my friends just disappear?
Speaker 8 (23:03):
You know what if I'm alone?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Things like that. That's a very real thing that people
both through when they're starting to experience different.
Speaker 8 (23:11):
Kinds of successes.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
So it's important to recognize and acknowledge that that's happening, uh,
but also understanding you know, what's the story behind that?
What am I telling myself about myself?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know?
Speaker 8 (23:27):
If I were to accomplish this and some people I know.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
For me personally, my fear of success has been around
my health. I've been struggling with some health issues and
I'm I'm there's a concern if I'll be able to
maintee the energy that goes along with you know, even
writing a book.
Speaker 8 (23:44):
That's sort of thing. So there's all kinds of things
I had to.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Growth and fear.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
But part of that is also the journey, you know,
working through that and recognizing going through that is okay.
And we can share those stories of struggle and science
with other people to encourage them along, you know, their
journey of growth.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Absolutely well, Barbara, Wow, this, this, These are wonderful insights.
I'm so glad we're having this conversation today. And is
there anything else that you'd like to share to those
who are tuning in and listening today on something that
you would just like to encourage them with when it
comes to giving themselves permission to be bold.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Oh wow, there's a lot that I I will go
with the first thing that pops in my mind.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Have help on your.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Journey, and it's not a sign of weakness to have help.
In fact, I have lots of help writing my books.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
I had several editors writing code the job with the structure,
just to put my thoughts in an organized way so
that it is readable.
Speaker 8 (24:54):
But also helping your journey and living boldly and fully.
You know there's someone you know what they're you're excited about,
and someone who you know that will really hold you
to that standard. I'm not someone who's going to always
make you feel good, definitely, not someone who will uh
(25:15):
talent you or try to knock you down several pegs,
but someone who's going to really come alongside you and
hope you grow in stress. Just I know, for me personally,
without the accountability that people speaking life and to me
and even believing it. I tell you there was a
(25:36):
long time I did not believe in myself, and I
really I held on to the belief that that other
people had to, you know, out of me until I
could believe it on my own. That's that's one of
the biggest gifts that someone has given me. So, yeah,
I have others on your journey, there's fine, but don't
(25:58):
intentionally try to make it to the up by yourself
of other people and link are with them.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
And thank you so much for that. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And for those of you who are listening who don't
know Barbara, let me just tell you he absolutely models
and is practicing exactly what he's preaching and Barbara, As
you know, you have played a huge and instrumental role.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
You're the one who introduced me to coaching and speaking
and the John Maxwell team. And if you hadn't seen in.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Me things that I didn't see in myself. I remember
the first time you asked me to come up to
your TV show and you said it was about empowered
leaders empowering others. And I was looking over my shoulders
to who you were talking to.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
I thought, I'm not a leader.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I don't have a company, I don't have a position.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
You know, And you said, know.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You helped me understand that I was misunderstanding leadership, that
leadership was having influence, and that I was influencing people
through the things that I was doing, and.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
You wanted to get my story.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So I can't thank you enough for doing the very
things that you're talking about right now.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
And you've done that.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
To me personally, and you've changed my life as a result.
And that's why it has been such an enormous privilege
to have you on the show. And again, if people
are just tuning into the second part, I highly encourage
you to go back listen to the first part, Listen
to Barbara's story of how she got from being an
(27:23):
extremely shy and some of the issues surrounding that to
how she ended up coming to the point where she
has written this book on giving yourself Permission to be Bold,
and it's on Amazon. I just got my copy the
other day. Can't wait to dive into it. And Barbara,
thank you so much again for taking the time to
out of your day. And I know you're busy, got
(27:44):
a lot going on, but you have taken the time
to come and to speak wisdom and experience and your
own journey into our lives.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And thank you so much for that, and thank you
for allowing me to sort of have this off think
that I always love talking to you and I'd love
watching her, so thank.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
You, Thank you so much, and so everyone.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I hope that this has been a benefit and a
blessing to you, and that you feel much more permission
to u to unleash that bold that you've got inside
of you. There's something that only you can do, your
purpose to do, You're meant to do it, and I
hope that this has helped overcome some of what might
be obstacles to that and that you can more joyfully
(28:28):
and fully enter into your Bold, and you can reach
out to Barbara on her website, which is discover next
step dot com.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
At discover next step.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Dot com, you can also connect with her and others
who are on this bold miss journey on the Facebook
page inner Bold.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Just put in just search inter.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Bold or hashtag inner bold and that's going to pull
you up to the page for her.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
New book, Permission to Be Bold. This is jeff Byern
Jeffrey Bird Coaching.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
This has been empowered living God, bless h
Hello, this is Gabriella on the scene today with Top
Network Radio.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
We have a real treat for you just around the corner,
and that is Empowered Living with Jeff Bird.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Jeff is the owner of Jeffrey Ber Coaching and he
will be coming to you weekly to teach you more.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
About empowered living.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
Now, let's join Jeff already in the studio. Hello, and
welcome Jeff Bird, Jeffrey Bird Coaching, and this is Empowered
Living Now. Today, we are again so privileged to have
a very special guest with us in the studio. She
is my longest standing friend. I've known her since I.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Was four years old in kindergarten.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
She has played a huge role in my own life
and development and even the business that I have today
as a coach. She is Barbara Valentine Gustavson. She's the
founder of Discover Next Step. She's an executive coach, and
she is the author of this brand new book, Permission
(01:37):
to Be Bold. This is a book on loving yourself,
living fully and making your mark on the world. Barbara,
thank you so much for joining us again for today's show.
Speaker 3 (01:50):
Jess, I'm brilliant enjoying the conversation.
Speaker 5 (01:52):
I'm excited to be here, wonderful.
Speaker 2 (01:55):
Well, for those of you in case you're just tuning
in and you don't know, this is part two of
the conversation we're having with Barbara. Now, if you missed
the first part, I highly recommend that you go back
and listen to it.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Barbara has shared with us.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
A whole lot about her journey from being very reserved,
being very.
Speaker 4 (02:18):
Shy, not giving herself permission to be.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
Bold in a lot of ways that have changed her
life and really as a result, are now changing a
lot of other people's lives. And the last time, what
we looked at was primarily her story and where she
had come from, where she's gotten to now some of
that journey, But on this part, what I wanted to
do is focus in on how she is now helping
(02:46):
other people as you and me, to give ourselves permission
to be bold.
Speaker 4 (02:53):
So, Barbara, what I'd like to do is just just
jump right in.
Speaker 2 (02:57):
And because you're a coach, you're an executative coach, you're
a speaker, you're an author, and you come across a
lot of people and as we mentioned on the last show,
it's it's very very frequent that we find people and
we just know that they've got something that they're going
to be so fulfilled when they unleash and get out
(03:18):
there in the world, and it's going to make a
difference in other people's lives.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
But there are just hindrance this so many people, very
often they live their entire lives.
Speaker 2 (03:27):
You and I have seen this, and it's tragic, and
they just never have done what they could have done,
what they would have loved doing, and what would have
impacted others. So I'd like it if I can ask
you to talk to us for a few minutes about
what are some of those hindrances that you commonly see
in people, What do those look like, and how do
(03:48):
you help move them past those hindrances get them unstuck
because we all know that stuck stinks.
Speaker 4 (03:55):
No matter what level you're at.
Speaker 2 (03:57):
How do you get people unstuck and help them move
forward on their journey of giving themselves permission to be
bold and becoming really who they're meant to me?
Speaker 6 (04:07):
Yeah, and so I shared a couple of hindrances in
the previous segments. H and I'll touch on this a
little bit more and then more when when I'm working
with people r. Sometimes I'm working with those that would
have the same personality as I do instroverts. They're excited
about their growth and their journey, but when they actually
(04:30):
start taking the steps, they're like, whoa.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
This is terrifying.
Speaker 6 (04:33):
And so yeah, sometimes we get caught into the belief
that we have to have a personality or a trait
to step boldly, and that just.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Is not true.
Speaker 6 (04:45):
No matter how many time recurred or seen it, you know,
or views of the world, you know, there's boldness inside
all of it. And so when I'm helping someone really
take steps through that, it's really about getting to know yourself.
And there's that quote and Jeff remind me, probably know
so that I felt.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
I can't remember if it's Plato or Socrates, one of
the great said it, they know themselves? Who was that?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
You know what? I know the quote very well, but
I can't tell you who it was that originally said it.
Speaker 6 (05:16):
Either it's to thyself. But I tell you those are
two of the most empowering words. But it's also.
Speaker 3 (05:25):
Difficult because it's of you know, we're player and it's
a process of digging. It's like finding for the gold.
Speaker 6 (05:35):
In ourselves and to get to know ourselves. You know,
it's it's not just about finding out information, but it's
using what we find makes our life work better. It's
here and to connect with others. More so for me
and and for my clients, it's really getting to know
when our energy style is, when are we most productive?
(05:59):
What you know, how do we best connect with other people?
How do we reach hard you know, with our personality,
our learning styles. So there's just this plethora of it's
just like you.
Speaker 7 (06:13):
Know, a treasure map.
Speaker 6 (06:14):
We don't want to discovering things about ourselves, and I
feel that's really never ending. It's that idea of you know,
there is unlimited potential. There's unlimited things about us, and
what we see now is what we see now.
Speaker 3 (06:30):
We don't see it all.
Speaker 6 (06:31):
There's more and the people we go to more uncover.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
So that's an area that I find that, you know,
the more people themselves and they aligned those with their
goals and the and the mature road map that traded together.
Speaker 7 (06:47):
And so that's a.
Speaker 6 (06:48):
Very important school that we work on together. Another part
of this is and I find one of the instances
there might be someone who their business is exploding against
something advice that happened they're with their house or a
loved one. They're just in that season where they're not
(07:11):
able to give it mail and they've gone into this.
Speaker 5 (07:17):
The survival note. But again they have this amazing composity,
so really examining and giving themselves permission to know we're
people back, but also no word bord and how can
you make this season of growth, We're doable for you?
(07:37):
So that because it's still.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
Fris that all this is happening. And then it said,
you know, all of a sudden, everything flamorous, but it
seems that you're not.
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Going to give up on you just because it is happening.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
Yes, it's gonna look very different. And the best example
I could give, and I write the storyands the book up.
Speaker 6 (07:58):
I love sharing other stories at that point I learned
those from but it's your friend parents, uh uh. Because
her coaching business was exploding and super excited, her husband
was injured in the line of the police force and
so life became very different for her. Family became caretakers,
(08:22):
and so she had his choice to either just completely
put everything on hold or to you know, rewrite the script.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
How am I going lived through this? So I love
how to approach this you think of, you know, we're
on our journey, you know, our family's on the journey
that she called it her crook in journey. But she
realizes they're.
Speaker 5 (08:44):
Never going to be staying or the thing.
Speaker 6 (08:46):
It's all going to be different, and so she has
determined enjoy that crooked journey no matter the twists and
turns the thing. And she is growing and she's doing
what she needs to do in a life. And just
here aship waits to have that perspective where she could
have had it completely different, you know, out Pops could
(09:09):
have so completely give up on her dream, which wasn't
too I think really examining that current summer a little
bit longer, that's getting clear on what.
Speaker 7 (09:20):
PSISI is to that extent, and know that sometimes you
live in multiple other things that's happening on the home front,
and that does that make sense to you when I
kind of expand.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
It like that, Yeah, you know, that's extremely helpful. And
as you were were explaining that, you know, it just
came to me that some of the most influential people
in the world that we most respect are ones who
gained that influence out of the difficult seasons, out of
the challenges. I think of Alexander Sultan's and then Malala
(09:53):
who was shot and left for dead. And now the
next year was Time Magazine's UH cover for the one
hundred most Influential People in the world. You know, Mandela,
Abraham Lincoln, Maya Angelas. So many people have gained their
deepest voice and their greatest influence through those seasons that
they never would have wanted, but yet they they somehow
(10:17):
enhanced and expanded what was already there, and they became
something that may have never otherwise been possible.
Speaker 6 (10:24):
Right absolutely, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And one of the chapters, I think it was chapter
six growth both.
Speaker 6 (10:32):
In my book there, I did a little bit of
research on treed and there's a a poem and they're
about the growth of.
Speaker 7 (10:48):
The growth of trees when it.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Goes towards and stuff like that.
Speaker 7 (10:51):
So I took a little bit.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
Further just to see that it's true.
Speaker 3 (10:55):
And University of Arizona back to the early stouthand they
did this experiment it's called bios here to look it up,
there's article but it. But what they did they created
this like giant glass bubble of free or four acres
and they created the cold system that was self distinct
and it was two There was an animals and it
(11:17):
was tradeful and the trees were just words and they
threw very less.
Speaker 6 (11:23):
But what happened was after a couple of years, a
lot of the trees that were straight called they fell
over and they were like.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Why is that happening?
Speaker 7 (11:31):
And the thing to be kind of.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
A reoccurring things. But what they found was when they
went further was there was no wind or storm or
anything like that.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
And when they started researching, they found that the presence
of wind and stuff like that, it helps the trees
more flexible.
Speaker 6 (11:50):
And then then but what it does inside, it actually
creates the stress wood that makes the trees stronger and
helps the roots from so they're with with you know,
they're able to stand that. But what was happening because.
Speaker 3 (12:05):
They didn't have that win when they were getting so
heavy at they just fell right over.
Speaker 6 (12:10):
And that just really starts work with me because I realized,
you know, we have the choice not of our circumstances
a lot, but.
Speaker 3 (12:19):
We have the choice on it will allow it to
help us become more brilliant, more fusible. And we had
a lot of growth challenge.
Speaker 6 (12:30):
Often come out soccer. Isn't that about the tree?
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Well, Barbara, I love uh, I love that you mentioned
tree and uh, how they're strengthened through the storms. You know,
one of my favorite trees are the giant sequoias, which
I've had the privilege to see out in California. And
you know, when doing some research on them, I found
out that the little steed pods, they're very very small
steed pods, and they have this leathery substance and the
(12:58):
steeds can't be leased unless unless a forest fire comes
along and burns off.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
That leathery exterior.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
And then the fire also clears the ground so that
the seed can get in touch with the soil and
the nutrients it needs. And the fire clears out the
underbrush that would block the light.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
From the seed so that it can get light.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
So the challenges like the ones you've mentioned with the trees,
you know, subjecting them to the winds and which strengthen them,
or if it's the fire that comes through, all of
those things that seem to be negative things that we
want to avoid so much in our lives are actually
the things that create the greatest strength and resilience and growth.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
I just I just absolutely love that.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
And we had just a little bit of a technological
snap just a minute ago.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
But I wanted to tell you that, Chuck, you had mentioned.
Speaker 2 (13:51):
The quote know thyself in the first part of what
you responded, and that was Socrates actually, but I want
to follow up too in what you had mentioned the
first on knowing yourself and not having to have a
particular personality, and I just wanted to say that I'm
so relieved that I don't have to be Tony Robbins
(14:11):
in order to have an impact on somebody, because I'm
never going to have that chiseled of a jaw in
my life, I don't think.
Speaker 4 (14:16):
So that's the.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Relief to know that I can figure out who I
am and what I'm good at and put it to
use and make a difference without having to live up
to the image of someone else.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Yeah, and that's important thing.
Speaker 8 (14:29):
When I realized that I didn't have to see anybody
but me, there is it's a huge lead. I didn't
realize how much pressure I had been putting on myself.
Speaker 3 (14:40):
To try to be, you know, someone who's energetic, charismatic.
We all have Christhma, it just looks differently for us,
you know. When we find what our own christha is,
that's our authoric self, and when we share that with people,
that's a gift.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
That we're giving stuff hey man, and ourselves that's just
so beautiful. It's you know, like I've said for years
that everybody's beautiful if you see them with the right eyes,
you know, and uh, maybe seeing ourselves with those right
eyes too, and seeing just the beauty and the uniqueness
that we've got that nobody else does and nobody else
can do what we can do with the same gifts
(15:20):
and the same passion and the same personality.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
So thank Heavens and thank.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
God that that uh, there's no cookie cutters here.
Speaker 4 (15:28):
You know.
Speaker 2 (15:28):
We all have something very unique about us and unique
to do we do.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
And I know for me, when I was discovering you know,
what is sneak about me? That was another journey to
And some people are able to see that big picture
really quickly.
Speaker 6 (15:43):
They have that vision of you know, what they surbute
through the world.
Speaker 8 (15:49):
And when you don't see that vision or even see.
Speaker 3 (15:52):
A lot, you know, because of using you don't you know,
it's like what direction do I go in? And so
I there were times where it's just felt like a
stepping foot bogs.
Speaker 6 (16:04):
And I realize that I don't have all in fun.
Speaker 8 (16:10):
Of me right now.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
As long as I'm taking you know, as long as
I focus the step that I'm on right now and
fully utilize that, you know, the next step will.
Speaker 8 (16:19):
Become clear and I'll know when to take that the
disgusting that you are on the right huff, even if
you don't see the big picture or even many pieces
right now.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
But eventually they're going to sit together.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
Wow wow.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
And so so we've talked about knowing ourselves and embracing
that uniqueness and then not staying off course, you know
during the storms, those things are coming to make us
stronger and having the different seasons, but realizing that that
they're all part of it, and that what what are
some other some other issues maybe uh or hindrances that
(16:57):
you see the people giving themselves that permission to be
bold that might be of value to.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
Those listening today.
Speaker 8 (17:05):
Yeah, So when that comes up often of fear, you know,
there's different kinds of fear, and fear was something that.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
I used to try to like destroy a diholate too.
And I realized that when I'm focused on fighting my fear,
it actually grows. So when I'm working with people, you know,
it's important to know ourselves what you know, fears we
experience and where some.
Speaker 8 (17:32):
Of the fears are coming from. But not to keep
that as on my focus, you know, use it more
as you know, like if you're driving a car, you have,
you know, the fear in front of you to see
what's behind you, you know, tasily look at it.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
It's kind of track of where you are.
Speaker 8 (17:48):
But don't let that see what you're focusing down the road.
Speaker 3 (17:52):
And it's so what we typically do is, you know,
we focus on what we're learning from our fears. You know,
what are they saying about it? So we're also kind
of taking a different approach.
Speaker 7 (18:04):
We're focusing on what.
Speaker 1 (18:06):
Can we create, what can we get excited about? Because
often we stay focused on what we think is wrong
with us, what needs to be fixing, and we don't
focus on what is going right, but what can we
get excited about? So what I do is I often
take your focus completely off of here. We focus on, Okay,
(18:28):
you know, what can you do to give yourself more joy?
You know, what makes you come alive? And so that
becomes a focus on enjoying your journey or intentionally you know,
with what you know, you know what helps.
Speaker 3 (18:45):
You to create. And so my post what have I
posted to see encouraged me to say a blist list
and what makes it happy and and so it's kind
of like go to tape. Like if I'm having a
you know, kind of feeling blue and a any day,
I'll go to that list and help them kind of
come up with an idea of something I can do
that day. That just my focus. I have a gratitude
(19:09):
book that I've created the things that makes me happy,
and so just bring me these things in that help
me pack to my factivity, help take the focus on
my fear. And so it's I see it as a
healthy distraction, an interrupt for fear and austen it just
takes a little interruption.
Speaker 8 (19:31):
Dissipate that fear or bring it down a few notches.
But definitely fear has been a entrance with some of
my clients.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Sometimes it's more debilitating, other times it's more just the
of you know, aggravation.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
And again the thing, the idea is not to.
Speaker 8 (19:50):
Annihilate it, but take accident of depite the fear, you know,
do it afraid. I hear that statement a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:57):
It is just where we build our off that they're
doing it even if it's.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Uncomfortable, right.
Speaker 4 (20:04):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
And one of the things that comes to mind is
a quote from our mentor Paul Martinelli as well, and
he likes to talk about the law of polarity, and
if you could picture something going wrong, you can just
as easily picture something going right, you know, and putting
putting those images in your mind. But while we're on
(20:25):
the topic of fear, I want to ask you a question.
And I think for most of us, when we think
about fear, when that word comes up, we think of
what's going to go wrong?
Speaker 4 (20:33):
What am I going to fail at? What am I
going to look dumb at? You know?
Speaker 6 (20:36):
What?
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Am I going to not know how to do? What
are other people better at than me? But I want
to ask you about this, what.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
About the fear of success?
Speaker 2 (20:45):
And what I have recently been coming more attuned to
this and that sometimes people aren't nearly as afraid of failing.
As a matter of fact, they feel like they've been
failing all their lives and they've kind of adjusted to it.
They're not afraid so much of another failure, as what
will it mean if they succeed? Could you maybe give
(21:09):
us a few parents from personal experience of those.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
Who worked with on that fear of success.
Speaker 3 (21:15):
Yeah, Oh, another good one that comes up a lot.
I've struggled with this personally, and so there's different reasons
why people can be fearful of success.
Speaker 6 (21:26):
It could be the.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
Fear of teaking on more responsibility when they are already
you know, the blued, so many other things around them
and you know they you know, it could be fear
if it's not the right time, or fear of what.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
People will say.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
There's one, uh that I write about in my book
is the thing called topsy speech syndrome all toppy syndrome.
Speaker 5 (21:51):
That's what it is.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
You can google that. And basically this is like way
back in the Star Bass, like a long time ago.
But it was this idea, you know, like coffy flowers
were all and straight and they're supposed to be.
Speaker 8 (22:07):
Uniform when they kept them in fields.
Speaker 3 (22:09):
But every now and then there'd be puppies that grow
taller and they would kind of black them down to
make some uniforms. And there was this king that's.
Speaker 6 (22:16):
Kind of pointed out to describe how, you know, a
certain group of people we didn't want they didn't want
to allow them to get taller or become more nobler,
if to describe, you know, we would just cut them down.
And that was a long time ago, but today it
still plays out.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
When we'd see people who are successful, like actors, you know,
different extiatements, there's this fear becoming successful because others might
try to cut us down, and you know, and.
Speaker 8 (22:51):
People might start thinking they'd start growing that then there's
a fear like who am I to do this? You
know what were all the people think of me?
Speaker 3 (22:59):
You know what?
Speaker 6 (22:59):
Have my friends just disappear?
Speaker 8 (23:03):
You know what if I'm alone?
Speaker 3 (23:04):
Things like that. That's a very real thing that people
both through when they're starting to experience different.
Speaker 8 (23:11):
Kinds of successes.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
So it's important to recognize and acknowledge that that's happening, uh,
but also understanding you know, what's the story behind that?
What am I telling myself about myself?
Speaker 2 (23:27):
You know?
Speaker 8 (23:27):
If I were to accomplish this and some people I know.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
For me personally, my fear of success has been around
my health. I've been struggling with some health issues and
I'm I'm there's a concern if I'll be able to
maintee the energy that goes along with you know, even
writing a book.
Speaker 8 (23:44):
That's sort of thing. So there's all kinds of things
I had to.
Speaker 3 (23:49):
Growth and fear.
Speaker 8 (23:52):
But part of that is also the journey, you know,
working through that and recognizing going through that is okay.
And we can share those stories of struggle and science
with other people to encourage them along, you know, their
journey of growth.
Speaker 4 (24:08):
Right.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Absolutely well, Barbara, Wow, this, this, These are wonderful insights.
I'm so glad we're having this conversation today. And is
there anything else that you'd like to share to those
who are tuning in and listening today on something that
you would just like to encourage them with when it
comes to giving themselves permission to be bold.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Oh wow, there's a lot that I I will go
with the first thing that pops in my mind.
Speaker 8 (24:37):
Have help on your.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Journey, and it's not a sign of weakness to have help.
In fact, I have lots of help writing my books.
Speaker 6 (24:44):
I had several editors writing code the job with the structure,
just to put my thoughts in an organized way so
that it is readable.
Speaker 8 (24:54):
But also helping your journey and living boldly and fully.
You know there's someone you know what they're you're excited about,
and someone who you know that will really hold you
to that standard. I'm not someone who's going to always
make you feel good, definitely, not someone who will uh
(25:15):
talent you or try to knock you down several pegs,
but someone who's going to really come alongside you and
hope you grow in stress. Just I know, for me personally,
without the accountability that people speaking life and to me
and even believing it. I tell you there was a
(25:36):
long time I did not believe in myself, and I
really I held on to the belief that that other
people had to, you know, out of me until I
could believe it on my own. That's that's one of
the biggest gifts that someone has given me. So, yeah,
I have others on your journey, there's fine, but don't
(25:58):
intentionally try to make it to the up by yourself
of other people and link are with them.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
And thank you so much for that. That's beautiful.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
And for those of you who are listening who don't
know Barbara, let me just tell you he absolutely models
and is practicing exactly what he's preaching and Barbara, As
you know, you have played a huge and instrumental role.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
You're the one who introduced me to coaching and speaking
and the John Maxwell team. And if you hadn't seen in.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Me things that I didn't see in myself. I remember
the first time you asked me to come up to
your TV show and you said it was about empowered
leaders empowering others. And I was looking over my shoulders
to who you were talking to.
Speaker 4 (26:41):
I thought, I'm not a leader.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
I don't have a company, I don't have a position.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
You know, And you said, know.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
You helped me understand that I was misunderstanding leadership, that
leadership was having influence, and that I was influencing people
through the things that I was doing, and.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
You wanted to get my story.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
So I can't thank you enough for doing the very
things that you're talking about right now.
Speaker 4 (27:00):
And you've done that.
Speaker 2 (27:01):
To me personally, and you've changed my life as a result.
And that's why it has been such an enormous privilege
to have you on the show. And again, if people
are just tuning into the second part, I highly encourage
you to go back listen to the first part, Listen
to Barbara's story of how she got from being an
(27:23):
extremely shy and some of the issues surrounding that to
how she ended up coming to the point where she
has written this book on giving yourself Permission to be Bold,
and it's on Amazon. I just got my copy the
other day. Can't wait to dive into it. And Barbara,
thank you so much again for taking the time to
out of your day. And I know you're busy, got
(27:44):
a lot going on, but you have taken the time
to come and to speak wisdom and experience and your
own journey into our lives.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
And thank you so much for that, and thank you
for allowing me to sort of have this off think
that I always love talking to you and I'd love
watching her, so thank.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
You, Thank you so much, and so everyone.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
I hope that this has been a benefit and a
blessing to you, and that you feel much more permission
to u to unleash that bold that you've got inside
of you. There's something that only you can do, your
purpose to do, You're meant to do it, and I
hope that this has helped overcome some of what might
be obstacles to that and that you can more joyfully
(28:28):
and fully enter into your Bold, and you can reach
out to Barbara on her website, which is discover next
step dot com.
Speaker 4 (28:38):
At discover next step.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Dot com, you can also connect with her and others
who are on this bold miss journey on the Facebook
page inner Bold.
Speaker 4 (28:50):
Just put in just search inter.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
Bold or hashtag inner bold and that's going to pull
you up to the page for her.
Speaker 4 (28:57):
New book, Permission to Be Bold. This is jeff Byern
Jeffrey Bird Coaching.
Speaker 2 (29:02):
This has been empowered living God, bless h
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