Black Doctors Matter

In this impactful episode of Everyday Black Men, hosts Riker, Reed, The Rider, White Collar Suge, and Sham are joined by special guests Dr. Donovan Roy, Ed.D, Dr. Gucci, and Dr. DeeJ for a powerful discussion on Black excellence in medicine. Dr. Donovan opens with his background and proudly notes that Memphis is now the Blackest city in America. White Collar Suge poses a question about the accessibility of becoming a doctor for those in Black American households, prompting The Rider to reflect on the wide range of motivations behind pursuing medicine. The conversation dives into issues of gatekeeping within the medical field, mentorship, and whether certain students receive preferential treatment, with Reed questioning how politics may shape inclusion. Dr. DeeJ highlights how other communities support their own through medical school, Dr. Gucci contrasts international medical training with U.S. systems, and the episode wraps with insightful takeaways on the power of mentorship and community.

Dr. Donovan Website: https://bit.ly/3SI6HaZ

Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/everyday-black-men--2988631/support.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:24):
Are our non reverend saints. We must focus, our brothers,
We must focus. So thank you, ladies, gentlemen, for coming
to the official episode of Everyday black Mail Podcast, a
podcast authentic black mail thoughts.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
You have your boy Wriker here, you got Reed Sham
white House, you stylish the writer.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
The only person we.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Don't have to fear is Armstead and black Linterian, but
I'm pretty sure one of the two will join us
midway through the episode. But most importantly, we have a
bunch of guests, and I mean a bunch of guests.
We have our.

Speaker 4 (00:58):
Second time on the podcast as a guest, doctor Gucci,
and we also have coming today for a special guest spot.
We have doctor Donovan and he's gonna tell us a
little bit more about a documentary that he's working on,
and then we were going to ask some questions, but
doctor Donovan, we're going to clear the floor for you.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Of course, you also grow out to the Patreon, but
tell us tell us a little bit more about what
made you decide.

Speaker 1 (01:25):
To get into making a documentary and also tell the
folks a little bit more about what it's about.

Speaker 5 (01:31):
I want to thank you for inviting me to this podcast.
To speak of the doctor vinry that I've been working on.
It's called breaking Barriers Black Males into Medicine. So the
reason why I made this documentary because I've been in
medical education for over forty years. I worked at various
medical schools across the country, and around twenty fifteen, the WMC,

(01:55):
which is the U brother the Association of American Medical Colleges,
I came out with this this report talking about that
black males since nineteen seventy eight, the numbers have been
decreasing representation in medicine, and for black women the numbers

(02:15):
have been have been increasing since nineteen eighty six. So
as I was getting my dissertation, I wanted to really
look at this problem from a not from what's going on,
but by deaths about the meaning what are the things
that you know black males don't have and what are
some of the things that are impacting them. I really

(02:37):
wanted to find solutions to the problem. So this was
part of my dissertation and I decided to turn it
into a documentary because I think there's not been many
conversations around this this epidemic and the numbers really with
a double ABC since in nineteen seventy eight is really false.

Speaker 6 (03:02):
It's actually since nineteen forty.

Speaker 5 (03:05):
The numbers have in nineteen the percentage of black males
in nineteen forty that we're in medical school were two
point seven. Am hearing today the number six state hadn't
gone up, but they kind of dipped a little bit
at two point six. So this is a problem that
really impacts the overall health. Health is wealth, and one

(03:27):
of this documentary is based out of the city of Detroit.
Detroit is one that is due I think mythis has
to pass it as the predominantly black city, but this
is if the impact of black males really cause a
lot of health disparities. And the reason why we see
why it's so important to know is because we had

(03:50):
off the off the conversation we're having about the Super Bowl.
You see predominantly black males and athletics. And one of
the reason why you see predominantly black males in medicine,
I mean and afflex is because of because it's money
in it. Okay, it's money in having black mails and
you can control their bodies. There's not any money, ah, No,

(04:12):
not any money when it comes to black males as
physicians because the money is keeping a black community six
due to pharmaceuticals, right I. Diabetes is one of the things, hypertension,
you know, all these different you know, uh, preventative medicine,
Preventative diseases can be preventative and all the with all

(04:35):
the researcher says, black men are the most likely to
practice in their community, to practice in the underserved community.

Speaker 6 (04:43):
So the lack of black males in medicine, it's.

Speaker 5 (04:47):
Impacted overall health of the Black community and communities that
have lack of access to health. So this is why
it's so critical that we really uh look at the
This is why this documentary is so important that to
bring this probable to the masses. Because of medical school,
they've known this. This is nothing new in the medical field.

(05:10):
Everyone does. This is something that they talk about all
the time. But the money is not in the solution.
The money is in the problem. So this is why
I made this documentary. This is the second documentary that
was one made by like Me and the White Coats.
This is another documentary to really you know, talk about this,

(05:30):
to create a forum to talk about this problem.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
Well, excellent and thank you for kind of diving into it.

Speaker 6 (05:38):
I know that question.

Speaker 7 (05:40):
Go ahead, Red, all right, Hey, so the one thing
that I've noticed about doctors. Let's go so doctors begin doctors?
Me like, so, uh, second generation doctors, third generation doctors.
Do you think that's part of the problem. And just
throw a little thing on this. I know a lot
of black people who are becoming doctors, but they aren't
Black Americans. They are like immigrants or immigrants children, which

(06:04):
are Black Americans. But I'm saying there's a difference without
the distinction there. But what do you think that's the
case too? As well as you know you hit, you
hit the doll over the head, brother, that is cover.
That's that's a very controversial topic in medicine. One of
my good one of my mentors uh doctor doctor times uh,

(06:32):
he's come up with this. Who really is a position?

Speaker 5 (06:36):
He's out in uh ran rapids, you know, he's out
in in Harvard, Michigan, and he really always talks about
like called dosa. Uh it's called the descendants enslave people.
Oh that's just nothing, love that nature. And he really
talks about when we look at African American males, you

(06:57):
look at the ones who come from you know, the
historical slave trade numbers are even worse, like the numbers
are private, like point two point two point five, So
you're right, you know, yeah. But also what's very interesting
is if you look at those those uh, those ones
who come from Africa, the Caribbee, just the second generation,

(07:21):
those ones who are coming into you know, medisine now
are practice of medicine. I guarantee their first generation because
when the second generation experiences are just like African Americans, right,
because they have been indoctrinated into the into the into
America's uh, euro centric education system, which I don't.

Speaker 7 (07:45):
Think they would give They wouldn't give that dedication to
the black community. They would give to their own distinct communities.
And that would be different versus Black community, wouldn't it
be that like uh, well, like doctor would probably being
a Nigerian neighborhood. Not necessarily they're probably following money.

Speaker 6 (08:03):
They're like, I got a question about that. Read what
you're saying.

Speaker 8 (08:08):
I was thinking about.

Speaker 9 (08:10):
It's not a I don't think it's always like as
black and white.

Speaker 10 (08:13):
Do you like when those first generation and second generation
Africans come here, there's not a what's the word a
hindrance and confidence and capability because I look at I
look at I'll say, my family. We get two black
doctors in the family, and my mother automatically assumes the
woman is a nurse all the time, and like we're

(08:34):
looking at her like we got to like yo, children,
because not disrespectful, because the nurses a respectable position. But
I think it's like a degradation of confidence within like
the community where how many black families coming up from
poverty like encourage their kids to be doctors versus like
you said, Uh, it's a family that I has one,
and you know there's a.

Speaker 7 (08:55):
Second when your parents can pay for you to be
a doctor.

Speaker 10 (09:00):
That's what I was saying, Like, well, I mean it's
not even just the case though my cousin, Uh, he
didn't come from the same background I did with the
Harvard and all that. You know, it's just also knowing
that rule. Well, no, I'm not talking about the exception
the fact that he knew how to navigate certain navigues
when it came to fundy. It wasn't like nobody told
him to be a doctor.

Speaker 9 (09:20):
We heard that. We were like, oh, ship, like you know,
but yeah, exactly.

Speaker 7 (09:27):
Positions I know they get into like sports medicine, and
I'm like, it's not there.

Speaker 11 (09:31):
Yeah, So I think again what the doctor was saying
is that, you know, there's many motivations for people getting
into medicine.

Speaker 12 (09:42):
Well, actually his documentary, if you watch the color, it
does say that.

Speaker 11 (09:48):
Yeah, And I'm also an inspiring physician and working on
navigating this very very treacherous water.

Speaker 12 (09:55):
It isn't easy. Financing is only one problem.

Speaker 11 (09:58):
And even if you're a generation physician, right, like let's
say your parents are physicians or your family had physicians
and then they they helped you get along the bandwagon, right,
there's also many challenges within becoming a doctor. And then
when you are a doctor, there is a lot of
challenges within there. And you know that that navigating that
field it can be very arguous when you don't have

(10:22):
guidance in the field. So that's also a major difference.
And actually, when you're going back to like why you
know black physicians are on decline, you know, there's many factors.
In history plays a huge part of it, whereas in
education when it comes to black men, very huge part.
Also when it comes to the black culture in America
being how do you say, de educated, demonetized, they were attacked.

Speaker 12 (10:47):
So when they had an upcome coming just after was
it the Civil War?

Speaker 11 (10:52):
The Yeah, after the Civil War where you had black
trying to get get ahead and they were starting to
get ahead, and then you have the this establishment actually
attacked them to break them down.

Speaker 7 (11:03):
You know.

Speaker 12 (11:03):
That also had an effect on.

Speaker 7 (11:07):
Educational standards and things. That's what they do.

Speaker 9 (11:09):
That's when the price of education.

Speaker 12 (11:11):
But there was also a bounce back when it came.

Speaker 11 (11:14):
To actually, you know HBCUs HBCU saw this and saying,
you know what, we need to go ahead and attack
this issue. So we're going to create our own schools
so that they could actually you know, challenge the status quote,
which they've done.

Speaker 12 (11:25):
But it still is a very arguous path to navigate.

Speaker 11 (11:30):
And I think that one that's inspiring to be a physicians.

Speaker 6 (11:37):
You guys.

Speaker 2 (11:38):
Yeah, what I was gonna say is, I mean, let's
hear about it from the other side, doctor Gucci. What
was it like navigating the waters in another country versus
navigating the waters here?

Speaker 13 (11:50):
Yeah? Good after everyone just to be here. Yeah, medicine
in in Nigeria of his meeting in America are quite
very different entities, although it's the same storyline. Metine. But
the practice is you know, much more different, because first

(12:15):
of all, you see very different kinds of diseases. Most
of the diseases come on here are not very very
common over there, you know. You know, in Nigeria, I
was still think we're still talking about things like polio,
were still talking about things like malaria. You know, these
are things that have been eradicated. You know in the
developed countries. You know, there are set in diseases we saw,

(12:40):
you know, we just told oh, if you happen to
travel abroad, you see this. But you know, trust me,
I haven't been in I haven't navigated med school here
in the you know, in the in the US or
in the Caribbean US community. I know for a fact
that I've seen and have you know, been able to
witness some of these conditions. Even also, the medical curriculum

(13:06):
is also streamlined in a way that you have a
straight seven year metic cause in Nigeria and Visavis. Yeah,
you go to the sciences first, you know, graduate from
the sciences and then you know, you go straight into
metine for another four years. So the curriculums are quite different.
But at the end of the day, it's the same alcohol,

(13:26):
which is meting. But again the pattern of diseases you see,
you know, like in in Nigeria, I talk about malaria.
In America, you talk about that asius is. You know,
most of those cancers you know we see and read
on reading books are just are things that we you know,
we're reading passing. But here you begin to see that

(13:50):
you get to see a different pattern of you know,
diseases that you see, but which is good because you
have a perfect blend of what is obtainable in Africa
and what is obtainable back in the years. Talking about
the topic for today, which is about you know, black
men in medicine, I feel that, yeah, I heard when
the doctor said that the numbers have been very constant.

(14:12):
It's been very very constant since the forties, and you know,
at two point six, two point seven, it's still not
enough because we need we definitely, we definitely need more
black people in metine. To be honest, We're definitely more
black people and more black men in meeting because this
will Having more black people in meeting helps with you know,

(14:35):
the health disparities. You know, it helps to cush on
the head disparity that you have and helps us to
build trust you know, within the community, within within the
population here. I also believe that, you know, having more
black people in medicine will help with you know, increasing
and you know, increasing access to healthcare. And I think

(14:59):
the bottom line is that trust. So if you if
you trust the system, you would you want to you know,
commit further, you want to commit more to the to
the process. So, yeah, we really do need more black
people in medicine.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
Thank you, doctor. Uh sorry, do you have something doctor, Yeah.

Speaker 13 (15:19):
Yeah, okay, So I was talking about I was trying to,
you know, make some adducement for some of the reasons
why we have some of these you know, dis reductions
in black males in medicine. I think from statistics, you
find out that you know, two tots of the population
of doctors are white. That's a huge chunk, about sixty

(15:42):
five point six percent, you know, you know quite you
know further, eighteen percent are Asians and eight point nine
percent that Hispanics or Latinos. I have just five percents
for you know, for black doctors. And of that two
point eight you know identify as black women and you know,
to six for the men.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
So that's two.

Speaker 13 (16:02):
Point six is really really small. I also believe that
what the reasons for that, you know, some of the
reasons why that number it's very very low, you know,
has to do with discrimination, you know, racial and financial disparities.
You know, when you compare you know, the white vis
against the blacks for the most part. And you know
the fact that you know, if you have less people,

(16:25):
less black males in medicine, you know, you have less mentorship,
you know, and that will also effect you know, mentorship
and you know, networking. So if you have more people
in metine, you have more mentorship and you have more networking,
you know, these avis. And then there's already this you know,
the media has been patent in such a way that

(16:47):
you know, they give a kind of negative disposition towards minorities,
and this creates a kind of i would say, maybe
internalized ptereotypes. You know, so that also has a wealth
affecting the psyche of you know, an average person who's
trying to you know, get into medicine and all that. So, yeah,

(17:10):
go ahead, No, I was going to.

Speaker 8 (17:11):
Ask a question, sorry to interrupted, uh, with your experience
overseas out of the country versus here, have you ran
into the disparity and just classes or you know.

Speaker 9 (17:28):
Some the nepotism of students in MAD school that.

Speaker 10 (17:31):
Come from you know, second third generation of I'm specifically
target the white white uh MAD students and doctors too,
you know, the intimidation tactics or judgmental uh you know active,
what's the judgmental uh practices towards you know, the black
or brown skinned you know, students and whatnot.

Speaker 9 (17:52):
Like that's a is it?

Speaker 10 (17:55):
Is it anything like that going on over there versus
you know here, like you spoke of the discriminations and separation.

Speaker 6 (18:02):
Yeah, so.

Speaker 13 (18:05):
I trained, I trained back in Anigeria and I also
elected to retrain back here in the in the US.

Speaker 9 (18:11):
So I attended.

Speaker 13 (18:13):
You know, I'll use my I use myself as an example.
I went back to a Caribbean med school here. And
you know, even in the med school, the way you
could see you could see those stereotypes, you could see
those you could see that disparity as well. You know,
the school I went to is largely populated by you know,
the whites from you know, like American whites, you know

(18:36):
vis a vis you know, you still have some blacks too,
But you could also see how you know, even in
class and how you know, when we have setting programs together,
how setting set of people, even though they don't try to.

Speaker 9 (18:49):
Make it very very.

Speaker 13 (18:52):
Obvious, but you can also see that some setting set
of people are favored, you know, more than the other
set of people. We see these things, but we just
act like you know, it's you know, the way the
way sometimes some of these you know, collect teachers or
professors will treat the same kind of students, it's not

(19:14):
the same way they will treat you know, an immigrant
or you know, like somebody coming a black person or
somebody coming from India or you know, so it's also
also different. And if you have an Indian professor, the
way he's going to treat Indians, it's not the same
way he's going to treat you know, an average black
person like me coming from Nigeria in the US going

(19:35):
to a Carribean med school. So it's those things are
always there, and so to some extent, collectively has a
wealth affecting affecting you know, how you navigate if you're
some if you're someone who pays, who is very very
if you're someone who you need to develop some set
kind of tough skin, you know towards some of this thing,

(19:58):
because if you don't, it has a wealth affecting your
psyche and how you you know, how you see things,
you know going forward. So I just believe that, yeah,
those things are always they always there. They're always there
if you if you the same, it's Doublestand that the
same way you would treat a typical white, you know, student,
it's different from the same way you would treat Even

(20:18):
though they try to make it like, oh, it's all diversity,
we're all the same. You know, we treat everybody eat pollipod.
We still know because we see some of these things
that oh, when it's like this, this person gets the treatment.
But when it's like this, this person gets treatment. So
it's always there. We say these things all the time.

Speaker 5 (20:35):
And I want to support what doctor Chris said because
I've been the vice dean of diversity Echo with the
inclusion and uh several medical schools, and he's all right,
there's a different here where you're talking about the way

(20:56):
students are treated em medical school. And one of the
things that really impact you know, African American students is
the fact that it's this sense that they're there because
of them being you know, because of their scared color,
which is not true. They really have to go through

(21:16):
a lot to get into medical schools. They had to,
they went through a lot of adversity, especially black males.
They've they've done all the necessary work in order to
be in medical school. And this is this sense that
they they were there because of a quota or affirmative action,
the diversity equity inclusion, and we all know that. You know,

(21:38):
if you look at the numbers the people who benefited
benefited from diversity equity inclusion, the last is not black males.
Black males are the least the population who did not
benefit from niversity equity clus It's actually white women.

Speaker 6 (21:53):
So that's white women.

Speaker 5 (21:56):
So so when you look at medical education, you look
who now are medical education now, it's fifty fifty women,
and majority of those are going to be white women.
So when you're talking about, you know, this atmosphere that
black males are being, you know, I'm sure that in

(22:18):
medical education is really a hostile environment.

Speaker 6 (22:22):
It's an environment that really say that they want to.

Speaker 5 (22:27):
Support, you know, everything, everybody's equal. But once once you
get onto that campus and you see the truth, it
really impacts you in a negative way. I mean, before
you can even start to study, you have to impact
all the microaggressions and all the you.

Speaker 6 (22:43):
Know, avert.

Speaker 5 (22:46):
Biases that you're you're dealing with, and then you know,
by the time it's seven or eight, you have to
then start shift and pivot and study.

Speaker 6 (22:57):
So this is it's a hostile and it's a very
hostile environment that you walking it too.

Speaker 5 (23:03):
And just because you see another black professor or you
see another like a physician within those walmths, don't necessary
means that they're not gate keepers too.

Speaker 9 (23:18):
I would question how often do you see that?

Speaker 10 (23:20):
Because everybody that I've met, or even my wife now
who's going to PA program, I haven't heard any of
them speak of having a.

Speaker 9 (23:27):
Black lecturer, professor or anything of that story.

Speaker 10 (23:31):
Like, it's very uncommon for what I you know, the
few I've ran into, which it sucks because outside of
just representation, is just to have that that at least
some sense of comfort be like, Okay, well I'm not
the only one here outside of other class students.

Speaker 9 (23:47):
If you get another student, I'm gonna give.

Speaker 5 (23:49):
You, I'm gonna give you a story, who's an African
American physician, high breaking in the school I once worked
in too cidents. He we had a conversation one we
have these like they have these they try to get
they try to build some solidary amongst the students. So

(24:09):
it was just you know event for all all African Americans,
you know, students. He stood up and told the African
American students that in this setting he will support them,
but on that campus he will not because it was
it would it would in the sense that he's only

(24:30):
for African American students or you see, but nobody questions,
you know, when the white professors give the white students,
or the Indians give the Indian students, or you know,
no more are the Asian physicians gives the Asian students
proof you know, support them.

Speaker 6 (24:49):
It's only when it comes to us. Here's a second.

Speaker 5 (24:53):
This gentleman has been at the school for about ten
years and we had, you know, our graduation and he
told me that he didn't know any of the graduating
students walked across the stage. That's concerning. This guy was
like secondary charge at the medical school. And he gave

(25:15):
me this other this last example, I want to get
how skinned folks and kid folks. He told me that
a gentleman told him, if he sees more than two
black people in the room, he knows he's gonna get poorer.
And that's cooled himself. So it's this elite. It's a

(25:37):
elitist when it comes to black physicians. And I'm not
a physician. I've just been in the field for twenty years.
It's an elite. It's an elitist, you know club and unfortunately,
a you know, pick and choose who they feel is
worthy of being in that club. And sometimes it's based

(26:00):
off of colorism. We still know that in our community.
Colorism is real, especially after American community. So well, the
darker you are, from my perspective, less likely you know,
you'll be part of the club. And those are some
of the things that I for me being in the
field for twenty years, you know, being a vice day,

(26:23):
which is you know, hit the silly for not being
a physician, but he had to become a vice deam.
And that's one of the things that really impacted me
in order to write and I'm writing, I'm writing three
books at the same time about how we can increase
black belt representation and how do we re imagine diversity, equity,

(26:46):
inclusion within medical school and also to the therd ones.
I'm a lovely specialist. I think one of the things
that impact a lot of the students for not being
successful is that a lot of students do not know
how to stay study independently. You learned twenty percent of
content within the classroom. Eighty percent of what you're gonna

(27:07):
learn is in your class is outside the classroom. So
out of preview, out of you know, write notes all
these things. You think that a lot of physician students
were coming. And it's not just African American, it's all students.
A lot of students do not know how to study independently,

(27:28):
and that is the biggest barrier. It's not the fact
that if your Americans don't have how the intellectual capacity
goes back to what one of gentlemer says, it's the
social capital. Like they don't have the mentorship, social capital,
they don't have the necessary tools to succee.

Speaker 6 (27:45):
So what they do is they brually go through it
by just grinding, grinding, grinting because they used to face
the adversity which led them to be successful.

Speaker 5 (27:56):
So this is what one of the things that are
really trying to you're probably probably part of the solution,
the start of the problem, the problem they're talking about this,
but I think this is why it's so important that
we are the solutions and not talking about the deficit,
but talk about how can we increase And I really
feel that medical schools really have the power to do something,

(28:21):
but few of the one hundred and fifty schools really
really put anybody or put any muscle behind, you know,
solve this problems where they know what the outcomes and
how beneficial it is to the Africabank community to have
more Black belts as physicians.

Speaker 11 (28:40):
I have to also add onto that because what I've
also noticed in the community is the socioeconomical status plays
a huge role. And it's basically picking off of what
you said, doctor Roy, where you know, students don't know
how to study. And then there's another thing also in
medical school that most people don't know, and it's adaptability,
not just knowing how to stay, but to change your

(29:01):
study method or just change your approach on tackling a
problem when you see a problem arising, adjusting quickly. And
I noticed because I actually have a doctor that I
talked to that's married to my mother and like I
talked to him about how he went through med school,
and he act like it was nothing because his primary

(29:21):
schooling they taught him all the skills that he needed
that he can use to flourish in medical school.

Speaker 12 (29:27):
Like he didn't even really bad an eye.

Speaker 11 (29:30):
But like when I look at it, I was like,
none of my schools taught me these these tools to
study and to learn. I had to learn these tools
and learn how to apply them in this medical setting.
And I actually noticed too, like talking to other young
black individuals going.

Speaker 6 (29:46):
Through their.

Speaker 11 (29:49):
Their schools, their schools aren't necessarily teaching them. Hey, look,
this is how you study, this is how you be proficient,
this is how you do things. In order for the
black community to get around that seeing this with my
family is that they actually send their children to these
white schools or to these Ivy League schools, and then
they actually end up teaching them skills so that when

(30:10):
they go into college they can flourish because they've learned
those skills that the whites use. So and again, as
you said, doctor Roy, like blacks don't necessarily black the
commitment or the mental cognitive ability.

Speaker 12 (30:24):
It's just that they don't.

Speaker 11 (30:25):
They lack the tools because they're not in the environments
that which they are taught so that they can thrive.

Speaker 6 (30:33):
I totally agree with that that is so important. It
also goes back to what you just said. They also
see when you send your.

Speaker 5 (30:39):
Child to one of those, you know, private schools that
really have a strove science component, a lot of that
stuff that you're seeing in high.

Speaker 6 (30:50):
School is going to be repeated in college. So a
lot of times if you go to a low resource school.

Speaker 5 (30:57):
As an African American, mail of the people who are
teaching the sciences, they're not graduating with a science background.

Speaker 6 (31:04):
That's something else that we need to discuss. Or your
school don't have you.

Speaker 5 (31:09):
Know, chemistry and biology, you have Earth science, life science,
you don't have the you know, the you know, the
the the experience of going through these science courses and
the first time that you ever see those courses as
a freshman, where you're when your colleagues are seeing this

(31:30):
for the second time, when you know, the more you
see something, the more you learn it. And once you
so when you get into your sophomore year of college,
that's where you see a huge fall off of African
American band going into UH into premads, they end up
dropping out because they as they go further in the
advanced science. Again the disease again to the it's not

(31:53):
the fact that like it. Once again, it's not the
fact they don't have the intellectual capacity to be successful.
It's the lack of opportunity, then the lack of social
capital it are to be successful. So research says that
entering that entering undergraduate schools, around forty two percent of

(32:15):
after Americans want to go into be pre bad or
still feel same as white males forty five when the
numbers at the end of we at the end, you
got a forty percent of the Occasian males that graduated.

Speaker 6 (32:31):
When you look at the black mails, you see five percent.
So we see.

Speaker 9 (32:38):
From the inside out, is there also some.

Speaker 10 (32:42):
Some form of favoritism when there's Caucasian or like you said,
Indian Asian that there is a struggle and they allow
some like venda rules or curved because I've heard of
this is where some students didn't necessarily pass whatever exam

(33:04):
or I forget the different terminology of what they have
or end of course or whatever, but they are.

Speaker 9 (33:11):
Giving a second chance to either retake or you know
that there's a review of what the results are and
to get them right over the.

Speaker 6 (33:20):
That's a good question. So what we see is.

Speaker 5 (33:26):
Sciences is a doggy dog world. Everybody eats their own.
That's one thing. Okay, so everybody eats their own. But
when you're talking about people going to their own silos,
so you'll see you know, the Asian kids study only
with the educ Asian kids. You see the the African

(33:48):
Americans students, No far, it's only a couple study with
each other. So that's another for number. But also too fraternities.
What I've heard this, this is not just what students.
I heard this all the time. The fraternities, the white
fraternities have the exams. If you have a profession that
I've been teaching there for fifty to twenty years, he's

(34:09):
not gonna change up there. He's not gonna change up
the exam. So you have these fraternity guys who actually
remember the questions and the answers, and they have a
like a they have a like a database or a
filar system where they say, oh, if you're taking this class,

(34:30):
here's the exam. Because one of my students was like,
she was struggling and she knowed this white guy who
never came to class, but he always got a's and
he will he took pity on her because she was
stressing out.

Speaker 6 (34:43):
He was like, he's like, you.

Speaker 5 (34:45):
Don't have the questions the answer to the exam. It's like,
she's like, what it's like here, here's the answer to
the exam. Everybody has these accept you, this is why
you struggling. He ended up getting the A. And of
course because this one white guy took pitiot on her.
So to answer your question, it's not it goes back

(35:06):
to that social network. It goes back to social network.
Is that when we get into the space, we do
not have the social network in order to level the
playing field for us. We Actually that's why I say
when African Americans get into medical school, male or female
or Latinos, when they get into medical school, they I'll say,

(35:32):
not all white students have that same privilege, but a
lot of them, you know, have that. You know a
lot of them have earned their way in because they
have to work hard, doubly hard in order to be
there because of there's lack of social network and social
capital that other population. And I don't want to diminish

(35:53):
the hard work, because medical school is no joke. I mean,
if anybody who play sports or folk especially football, of
gone through hell week, back to school is like going
through forty eight months of hell week. It is intense,
it is crazy. If you don't have the necessary resources
to be successful in it, if you don't have the

(36:15):
social network to be successful, it is going to be
a grinding That's why you see a lot of students
that in the passes, not because they don't have the
capacity or the financial support. It's the fact that it
is a doggie dog world and everybody stay home.

Speaker 14 (36:33):
Yeah, I like to add I can add to that
real quick, So I agree with what you're saying about
the doggy dog world. Also in medical school, I think
one of the biggest things.

Speaker 3 (36:47):
Know.

Speaker 14 (36:47):
The big thing I saw was the Indian communities. They
look out for each other, but the Blacks do not.
I remember, like some people would have papers, have ances
to papers, keeping that for themselves. And also where you
have a group of people studying together. Sometimes I might

(37:07):
be wrong, but sometimes the male folks things. They think
that they are better off or they are better than
this other person and don't come. That's all about humbling yourself.
Wanting to understand. I wanted to know what's going on.
But if you feel like you're better than this person,
because okay, first of all, I went to some school
in Mississippi or something like that, you would not be

(37:28):
able to get other material from people.

Speaker 4 (37:31):
So that's one thing.

Speaker 14 (37:33):
Humility is something I feel like most of us black
people lack. And then secondly is we're not looking out
for each other. Those are the two things I think
we're the biggest things for the Black community.

Speaker 13 (37:46):
In medical school, Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with I
agree with the last with DJ.

Speaker 6 (37:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (37:56):
I had a similar experience. And while in the Caribbean,
there was a time some of our exams were being
set by one one medical body, and you know, most
of the time they were repeating questions and some some
like most of the Indian folks, had answers to those questions,

(38:19):
and they were doing.

Speaker 6 (38:21):
Very, very very well.

Speaker 13 (38:23):
You see some people that don't come to class, they
don't do anything, but they just aggregate themselves together during
the exams. Yeah, close to exam exam time and they
come out in flying colors, and everybody's like, oh, these
people are very good. They are so good. I remember
I had my colleagues and my friends had to sweat
for every every every every score we got in the exam.

(38:47):
We had to put in so much work. But people
there were people who were not doing so much and
they were just coming out with you know, straight grades
like that. It was later on when the school NaSTA,
they said in house questions that we decided that we
now knew that you know, most of these things were
because most of the time it was because this is

(39:09):
already seen the past questions, they revised it over and
over and over and over and over. So it goes
back to what DJ said and what uh doctor doctor right, Yeah, yeah,
it goes back to what you said that you know,
sometimes when people are able to just you know, we

(39:31):
we you know, we don't have that social that social mentorship.
You know, we don't have that social capacity, you know,
as a group to be able to help ourselves and
be able to do things in a way that that
in a way that benefits us. So yeah, I quite
agree with you. I agree with totally.

Speaker 6 (39:54):
And also to sometimes we don't want to bit we
were struggling, you know, we don't go seek help. And
this is understanding because when you see help, you don't
get the same help as someone else for African Americans,
and it's always looking at oh, that's what are you
doing wrong? What are you're not doing right?

Speaker 5 (40:13):
And it's to say and it could be the fact
that the instructor lacks the ability to connect the.

Speaker 6 (40:19):
Content to the students.

Speaker 5 (40:21):
I think we put and I always stood up said
that it's sometimes it's not the students, it's the information
that's been delivered to the students and how the people
who are delivered the information are not making those associations.
So that's another thing that really is an advocate. A

(40:41):
lot of times when you go to the schools, you
don't have someone like myself advocating or the students. And
if you advocate for this for African Americans, you are sean,
you are isolated, and you have to be very strong.
Is what the students are growing up. Because I always
tell the students sparing what you're going through because I'm
going through the same thing.

Speaker 6 (41:02):
And I'm an adult.

Speaker 5 (41:03):
I'm six six, I'm a former office of Line and
I play at the University Southern California, So I understand
about adversity. I'm I'm built for this, but a students
need someone who's gonna advocate you if you don't have
no one advocating for you as African because because really
medicine is anti Black, education is anti Black, and especially

(41:25):
medicine because you know, a lot of the diseases that.

Speaker 6 (41:28):
Are being taught or not talk from an African American spective,
relying to skin. We relying to skin.

Speaker 5 (41:37):
A lot of the stuff that they see, they rarely
see it on the African American patient of the skin,
of the skin tone. So that's another thing that I
had that when it come to Madison, you have to
really eliminate the hitting biases, a lot of human biases.
When it comes to us, it's all about stereotype. It's

(41:58):
all about stereotype.

Speaker 10 (42:02):
I find it an interest in everything that y'all hit
on and even the questions y'all answered for us identify
possibly the top key points with the Black Americans in
every field where we don't succeed outside of when they
want us to succeed in sports and entertainment, but in
the professional world, in a lower education, higher education, doctors

(42:25):
like you said, and all these professions, and I you
know from the book that we speak on all time
and here outliers to other books that talk on just
strike within human humans period. We are the only culture
that are self deprecated. Like we we don't help each other,

(42:46):
and it's crazy to like, I don't know how many
times the discussion has to be made on small platforms
the big platforms, but it's just interesting to hear you
you guys all from different background, same profession, but that's
like the common denominator and then you can align it
with all the other, you know, environments that Black Americans.

Speaker 9 (43:08):
Are in, and it's always other Blacks don't help us.

Speaker 10 (43:11):
We don't have like it's a it's a it's a
rarity that's crazy for you know, it's not crazy for
me to hear, but it's just, you know, for lack
a better.

Speaker 7 (43:18):
Term, he said, they can't help you without suffering a consequence.

Speaker 10 (43:26):
Also in it too, though, that's enlignment because we regardless
of what environment, it's it's the barriers internally and externally
that we run into.

Speaker 9 (43:35):
And you know, it's ignored obviously by the other side.

Speaker 10 (43:40):
You know, even when you said the I and I
was muted, but like I laughed because like it's there
to do, you know, great things, and yet it's that turning.

Speaker 7 (43:50):
White women.

Speaker 9 (43:50):
And I'm talking about what it was meant for versus
what it is for.

Speaker 7 (43:55):
No, what it is for, what it's meant to do.
It did what it was meant to do. It was
never to help black people like black men exactly. I mean,
you'll probably get one or two, but compared to the
number of men that's available to do that, that's not
really there.

Speaker 6 (44:10):
That's not a delusion.

Speaker 5 (44:12):
I had this conversation with my family members and they're like, oh,
do you as being you know, eliminated, And I had
and and I'm like, listen, do I didn't do anything
for black for black people?

Speaker 6 (44:24):
And they can. They can.

Speaker 7 (44:27):
You'll get a sprinkle of black women. That's about it.
You'll get a sprinkle of black women. That's about it.

Speaker 10 (44:35):
You will get a mark, You'll get a doctor King
posted somewhere in the court.

Speaker 5 (44:38):
And the funny thing doctor Martin, when he was alive,
his approval weight was three percent when he was alive.
So that's another thing and I and I have to
tell you about my family is like when Martin Luther Key,
he said towards the end he questioned if integration was
was was was possible? Well, if integration was a good thing.

(45:01):
You say, he's afraid and he's seeing his community into
a birding building.

Speaker 10 (45:06):
That's a good discussion in recent years where I think
I think Tim and Mike.

Speaker 9 (45:11):
Even talked about it.

Speaker 10 (45:12):
It's like where black people actually thrive when seguation.

Speaker 7 (45:16):
We did, we did everything, That's why. But that's where
a circle little brown. Back to what he's saying, Black
people are going to go into black neighborhoods. But do
you support your black doctors and you got a black insurance?
As do you got a black this Black day? Whatever?
And then keep that cycle going. But the problem is

(45:37):
the people who experienced a lot of wealth start getting
other people to do that kind of stuff, like you
can't find your black accounting like George.

Speaker 10 (45:47):
That's where the disadvantage comes to the social equity, because
then there's the network. Even when it comes to law,
those lawyers that are successful usually have a good relationship
with the judges that they are presented in front of
that work. It's not necessarily that they're a better lawyer.
Their relationships are what helps their career thrive, and.

Speaker 9 (46:04):
Usually it is a cultural thing.

Speaker 7 (46:06):
Then you go to the black people they present in
front of you, the present lives in front of you,
Like when you when you're presenting somebody like Lebron, James Lebron,
like Maverick conqueror, is that guy? But I want you
to be really look at that team. You always see
this bad white guy. That guy is the guy that
was Lebron's everything? Is not the guy they are lying
to you?

Speaker 10 (46:26):
Is that guy? Like something like that. Years ago what
I thought was interesting, even though it came from him
where he said master P said something because master P
wanted to link up women to do something for the community.
And Kodak went on later and on that same platform, said, Yeah,
my problem is when I go to these other black folks,
they want to charge me this and charge me that

(46:47):
they don't need to offer in a quarter of what
this white guy over here is offering me. And they're
not even charging me all the things that they're charged.
Like that's another thing with the distrust or the opportunistic.

Speaker 7 (46:57):
What I'm saying is the system has done that on purpose,
Like that's pervasive.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
I think on that part, I think that's the way
that we have to do is I mean, we could
talk about the problems all day long.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
There a mountain high, but Yeah. The solution I mean,
I think is just for us to do more than
our communities.

Speaker 15 (47:17):
Like I mean, my doctor is black, now he's also Nigeria,
and he's here.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
To really like change things for his community.

Speaker 16 (47:31):
But even like with doctor Gucci Cris or doctor Ryder
or doctor d Jay, I've seen y'all interact together with
these things and kind of building your own networks.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
And I think that's more so the solution for us
because we have to build those networks. Like we got
stylist here, he's about to be a black accountant. He's
going to specialize in one thing and then he'll change
something else. Not gonna say with specializations, because you know,
the matrix love to hear that, so they can try
to throw something in your right.

Speaker 12 (48:00):
But we need to do more to.

Speaker 3 (48:02):
Branch out these relationships.

Speaker 2 (48:04):
So these kind of conversations like having doctor Donovan making
a documentary, you've got to support him. I mean, we
we go back to others who are mothers who won't
let father see their children. Like that guy, he is
building something to kind of shine a light on a problem,
and that's really what we need to do more of
is focusing on that. But you know, I think this
has been really good, but because I want to be

(48:26):
you know, cognizantive, like the amount of time that we're
taking here.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Yeah, if y'all got a few more questions y'all want.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
To ask doctor Donovan, let's go ahead and focus on
that and then we can go ahead and close out.

Speaker 6 (48:37):
Oh.

Speaker 7 (48:37):
I think they have like a Black medical health Care association.
Like when they have those kind of associations, why don't
they help or is it like every other black association
that gets taken over by somebody else.

Speaker 6 (48:51):
Working at that and the internet.

Speaker 5 (48:58):
But I think they're very conscious of the of the problem.
I think one it goes back to what you said
previous about Jerry Jones, Jerry Joe the A m A.
These associations are physicians, so you they only when they
need people who are experts in these type of fields,

(49:20):
like someone like myself who's an educational psychologist.

Speaker 6 (49:23):
You know, I was.

Speaker 5 (49:24):
I've been very beneficient with and supporting the institutions that
I've been because I see it from a different perspective,
not from the physician perspective.

Speaker 6 (49:33):
You need people who are for a different sector in
order to fix this problem. I think they're very concerned
about these problems, but also too, they're going back to
their they're part of the world, and they're the only
two or three black physicians there, and they're they balance systems.
Doctor DJ, doctor Gucci. I forgot that the other physicians

(49:55):
are here.

Speaker 3 (49:56):
Doctor R.

Speaker 5 (49:58):
Yeah, you guys are baloing a system by yourself, and
it can weigh down on you. It's like the rest
of them, and sometimes we do not rely on each other.
These type of conversations that are being like we're having.
It needs to be had at the at the at

(50:19):
the national level, and not just talking about it. Okay,
we all get excited about it for the week that
we're there. It might last like two weeks, and then
we go back to business as usual. Right, it needs
to be constantly a conversation had, like how do we
bring other isities in here in order to fix the problem,

(50:40):
because if we don't, only are we going to be
still healthy. But you got to remember a report came
out in twenty and fifty three the black community had
a deficit, and right now we are treat like what
ten trillion, a trillion dollars community. We need to and

(51:03):
the more physicians and the more people we have an engineer.
The more we have people going in it, the more
our community is going to get stronger. We do not
have the we do not have the solidarity that we
need in ought to be successful. I think it goes
back to the earlier what you said, the Caribbean, the

(51:25):
black that asper in America need to come together. That's
what that's the conversation need to be having. It's not
the fact that you're catching hell because you're you're from
your Caribbean? Are you African? Are you from the slave trund?
You catch your hell because you're black, because America has
an anti black agenda.

Speaker 10 (51:46):
They rather see us to follow up to follow over
that question.

Speaker 12 (51:50):
Do you think.

Speaker 10 (51:53):
One of the biggest problems we have is there's a
content with saying the representation we have to where there's
no initiative to try to back up and find the
future replacements for those like black leaders, doctors and all
of that. Like we there's always a contentpt of we
already got that. It's like, yeah, but we do.

Speaker 5 (52:11):
They don't want to give up. The old regime does
not want to give up power. Nobody and listen to
other people. The only reason why they that people don't
on them is because the power that they have, that's
like the just like you know, white supremacy. Nobody wants
to lose power, you know. And also to the generational
especially with black men, it's a generational thing, like it's rare.

Speaker 7 (52:36):
I think. The one thing that I've seen when you're
talking about power is when you when I see a
lot of older black physicians, they aren't fucking I'm sorry,
they aren't liberals. That's another thing they not gotta put
in front of you as a black man. They're not
gonna put none like you gotta be an old liberal
Black men men, especially most men, and this is not
like political to most men. Is they get older, they

(52:58):
get more conservative. It is what it is. Yeah, So
when these men get older and the powers that be
who usually have the power to put these people in
front of you, they're liberal. They're not gonna put Ben
Carson in front of you. When we were curds, I
remember Ben Carson was never talked about in that way.
But as he got older, they started to realize this man,
not on democrat, but how big Carson was presented to

(53:21):
me as a child, and then it was presented to
me as a dunt that stuff matters. He needs to
just be presented as a doctor, none of that, Like
what was the book Gifted Hands or Gifted hands. But
as I got older, they tried to present him like
he's some left right wing that case. I'm just like,
he's still a doctor, a doctor.

Speaker 9 (53:38):
Yeah, they just moved them into.

Speaker 6 (53:41):
We need both. We need both perspective.

Speaker 5 (53:43):
We can't fight about we can't fight amongst each other
that who's left and who is right?

Speaker 6 (53:47):
You know what I mean?

Speaker 7 (53:48):
If you have no they're only gonna put right and
left and fron left in front of you because they
don't put right wing people in front of It's just
how the media is. Like left wing.

Speaker 6 (53:58):
It is what it is.

Speaker 7 (53:59):
But like the not gonna put that guy in front
of you because they think it'll, you know whatever, it
poison your mind. But I'm just like, you need both,
you need both.

Speaker 5 (54:08):
I agree you need to have And I think that's
one of the things that you that I see is
that a lot of people do not like being around
I love being around like minded individuals, and that's not
how you grow. I the reason why I'm in a
position that they are because I was forced to be
a part of this environment in better called education where

(54:30):
it's very conservative, it's very a Republican and I'm not
a Democrat or I'm not a Republican.

Speaker 6 (54:37):
I'm a black man.

Speaker 5 (54:40):
I had to like really understand what they were coming from.
When Donald Trump won the first election, when I was
at a medical school in Los Angeles, I told all
my colleagues that he was going to be the president.
They laughed at me, they laughed at me, and when
he became president, everybody started to cry. I said, why
you cry, because you really see that American, what American

(55:03):
really is built upon. You know, probably with us as
black people, we wait for white people to help us.
We wait for that them to acknowledge that that that
that there's racism and that slavery really impact us still
to this day. They're never gonna admit that because once
again they do that, then they see that they inde

(55:26):
fit for something when they when you when they talk
about privilege, they think, oh, I'm not rich. They don't
understand that privilege is the fact that their skin color.
And when I went back to say, when you when
your skin colder, colorism is a real thing. Because colorism
and because it's based upon we as black people are American,

(55:46):
the ones who were born here for the American slave
trade at all.

Speaker 6 (55:49):
We are, we are American, we went through we are
not We're we.

Speaker 5 (55:55):
Don't have like when you talk about Nigeria, Nigeria still
can go back to the homeland see people that look
like them.

Speaker 6 (56:02):
Hey, when you go back to Jamaki, you still see
people that look like you in power. You're in American we.

Speaker 5 (56:07):
Rarely see, like you said, we rarely see people in
power and look like us or come from out community.

Speaker 13 (56:13):
You do.

Speaker 7 (56:14):
But it's the ones they want to see. They want
you to have in front of you, meaning that you
don't have a real representation of you because I think
it's representation of skin color, not representation of how you think.
Because that's that's where representation is wrong. Just because they're black.

Speaker 6 (56:31):
How many black how many how many black deans? How
many black deeds in medical schools?

Speaker 5 (56:36):
Do you know?

Speaker 6 (56:39):
I don't know any exactly? How many better?

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Zero?

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Zero?

Speaker 9 (56:51):
Right in Atlanta?

Speaker 6 (56:54):
Is he black? The one that.

Speaker 5 (56:57):
African American woman. It's a couple of black beans. It's
a couple black death. It goes back to how can
you envision something when you don't see it and that's
where it goes back. In order to see it, you
have to you have to uh in order if you
ro models are so critical. Mentorship is so critical. If

(57:18):
you don't have anybody that you that is going through
that experience and looks like you and come from yourself,
it's gonna be.

Speaker 6 (57:27):
It's gonna be.

Speaker 5 (57:27):
It's gonna be a lot of adversity, a lot of
pitfalls that you're gonna deal with, and you don't have
that mentorship, and that guy is on how to you know,
louver through these obstacles in the pitfall? Especially me, I'm
a first generational college student, single parent home. I grew
up in Englewood. I grew up during a crack apidemic
like most And that's another thing. When you go to

(57:49):
these conferences and you see all these life Oh they
grow up in the inner city. I could tell the
town who didn't grow up in the inner city. You
didn't because you run away from me because I come
and have this conversation with you. And so this is
what I'm saying. Representation is so important. Colorism is a
real thing in America. If we still think it's not over,

(58:10):
it's still the paper bag, the brown paper bag going
on in education. But this has evolved, it's evolved, it's
involved over the years, everything has evolved with the state
the same all the reason. Actually, thank you very much.

Speaker 6 (58:26):
For having me.

Speaker 3 (58:29):
I appreciate the response because, yeah, that's that's true. I
think especially like the mentorship. But we definitely do have
to evolve it. And that's that's left to us because
we're the next generation where the next one is at
the at the back the go ahead and read one
last question?

Speaker 7 (58:43):
What do you think about these obscure people calling themselves
doctors such as, uh, what's that brother's name?

Speaker 13 (58:50):
Guy?

Speaker 6 (58:51):
You know he was on our podcast before. Oh, what
I'm talking about? Doctor anke? Is that his name?

Speaker 7 (58:58):
The weird dude with all the herbs like these people
are practicing like quote.

Speaker 3 (59:04):
He is a former gift. You're not gonna call doctor
Ankie a weird dude.

Speaker 6 (59:08):
He is any the big.

Speaker 3 (59:18):
We had master Herbalist Ankie on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (59:21):
We had him before he began his trajectory and became
the rock star, which we take a small amount of
credit for.

Speaker 3 (59:28):
But what do you sorry, were you finish the rest
of the questions?

Speaker 7 (59:31):
Yeah, I don't know what he is. I'm just be
honest with you.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
But I know he's a he's a master herbalist.

Speaker 7 (59:40):
Okay, that's what they called himself. What do you guys
think about them? Inside of like traditional medicine, there's a
lot of them. You're not the only one.

Speaker 6 (59:48):
There's a lot of the.

Speaker 5 (59:49):
Things that I can say is Uh, I worked with
they do making culture who do a lot of the
traditional medicine. One of the thing that with Western medicine,
as they call one of the thing they say is
the fact that as medicinemen, it's important that they work
closely with the physicians. They both work hand in hand.

(01:00:12):
So if an airbelist telling you know their patients that
they're the only two and all to be all, then
that should from my perspective, that's a problem.

Speaker 6 (01:00:24):
It should be they should work hand in hand.

Speaker 5 (01:00:27):
So that's my perspective on that is that if you
have the knowledge, you have the foundation, if you do
some type of formal education, it's related to the body
to really relate to some with documented research and document documented.

Speaker 6 (01:00:42):
Practice and how to treat it. And then you know,
I don't see anything wrong with it.

Speaker 5 (01:00:50):
Is only when you try to exclude UH, the trade
physician out of the equation.

Speaker 7 (01:00:56):
H I think they do a little bit above right
for the most part. They also I don't know if
that's just a legal distinction they make, because I was
just like when you said that, I'm just like to
made me go back to the original subject. Why what
is the number one thing you can say to a
young person entering college right now to pursue a life
in medicine? Because I think you said you played football

(01:01:17):
and you.

Speaker 6 (01:01:20):
No, see, I'm I got a doctor.

Speaker 5 (01:01:21):
I'm an educational psychologist, so yeah, so I'm a learning specialist,
so I help students come physicians. So one of the
things I can and that's interesting for a conversation. I
let a national initiative to increase black males and medicine
is looking at student athletes involved social capital, house, social network.

(01:01:44):
Athletics run hand in hand. That's another subject to hold
the other tagic, but I have let a national initiative
at the national level to get more black bills in
athletics in medicine, I would say, I would say one
is intership. You need to find ventorship. You need to
you need to be open to that mentorship. The mentorship

(01:02:04):
necessary because if necessary, have to be a black, veil
of black. Anybody who has the knowledge, anybody who has
the social capital that you need. You know, you need
to you know, seek out those individual would you need
to fight, look out for help. You gotta ask for help,
you know it. Start day one. You have to ask

(01:02:25):
for help. You cannot be you cannot you cannot be
afraid to ask because sometimes when students ask for help,
they feel like, oh, that's a weakness is or somebody
is judging me. I don't care if you judge me.
As long as I get to my end goal. Nobody
is gonna remember on February sixteenth at seven o'clock that

(01:02:46):
you would ask so and so for help. All they're
gonna know is that at the end of the day,
you reach the goal that you're trying to attain, and
that's to be a physician. That's another thing that I
would encourage you them to do. And one of the
things that you have to do is at the end
of the day, you have to have a mindset that
that that this system is not gonna break me. You

(01:03:07):
cannot and you have to follow You have to follow
a straight You got to be disciplined, and those the
basons I would say that I've seen that has worked
for students that I work with to become a physician
that a come from associal acting backgrounds.

Speaker 6 (01:03:22):
Excellent.

Speaker 9 (01:03:22):
Well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:03:23):
We really do appreciate your time.

Speaker 6 (01:03:25):
Dodtr Donovan.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
Do you want to shout aut any socials or anything
that you want to stay included?

Speaker 6 (01:03:30):
I would love if you are interested in uh, you know, visiting. Uh.

Speaker 5 (01:03:37):
But if you're interested by documentary, you can reach out
to be at Pathways into Medicine at gmail dot com
or you can go to our website Pathways into Medicine uh.

Speaker 6 (01:03:55):
A consulting dot club the Pathways Thank.

Speaker 9 (01:04:01):
You very much.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
No no, sorry, sorry, no you I cut you off there, sorry,
uh no, but so Pathways in the Medicine at gmail
dot com and Pathways in the Medicine.

Speaker 6 (01:04:15):
To Medicine Consultant at Gmail.

Speaker 3 (01:04:21):
Thank you Sarah for correcting me.

Speaker 7 (01:04:22):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:04:23):
And I'll make sure to list both of those things
and the show.

Speaker 5 (01:04:27):
And once I get my book, I would love to
come back and discuss you guys a a couple of
bus once I finished this book.

Speaker 1 (01:04:32):
Hey, we would love to have you back on so
you know, once you get those creative juices flowing and
you finish that book.

Speaker 6 (01:04:38):
Definitely come back and.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Discuss because people are definitely gonna be very interested. I mean,
we we need more black doctors.

Speaker 17 (01:04:44):
And especially three books. I'm gonna let you know. I man, okay,
are you are you gonna dict?

Speaker 5 (01:04:56):
I would do with both. I would do what it
would be a hybrid, it would be both book. It
also too audio, So I was I would definitely come
back and uh, I'm a little brief Submary of both books.
They should be world out here in back, so I
will be. I'll reach out to you guys until in April,
discuss this, discuss my book that I'm coming out with.

Speaker 6 (01:05:17):
So excellent.

Speaker 3 (01:05:19):
Well we're looking forward to it. Thank you very much,
doctor Donovan.

Speaker 9 (01:05:23):
Goodbye, Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (01:05:26):
Thank you, doctor Chris.

Speaker 7 (01:05:28):
That was an interesting conversation that was awesome, like all
them speaking on the same thing.