Everything's Political Season 4 Episode 16 - Ashli: The Untold Story of the Women of January 6 - Jack Cashill

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, everybody, Welcome to Everything's Political. I'm your host, Taya Shoemake.
You can also find us online at Everything's Political dot
substack dot com. Shout out to Magicman Joe Strecker, the
Babe Ruth of podcast producers.

Speaker 2 (00:18):
You're watching Diamond in History. This was Babe Ruths or baseball.

Speaker 3 (00:24):
Who on this day.

Speaker 1 (00:25):
Joe in nineteen twenty nine tied the Major League Baseball
record by hitting grand slams in consecutive games for the.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
Second time.

Speaker 1 (00:35):
For the New York Yankees and thirteen to one win
versus Philadelphia A's.

Speaker 3 (00:42):
And what an appropriate segue because.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
Our next guest is going to be a home run
same Jack cash Hill. You can find information about him

(01:16):
and his books at Cashhill dot com. He's the author
of a new book, Ashley, The End Story of the
Women of January sixth. He's an independent writer, documentary producer,
and media consultant. He's written for Fortune, Wall Street Journal,
The Post, The Weekly Standard, American Thinker, you name it again. Phenomenal,

(01:40):
prolific writer. And he's here to talk with us about
that new book, Ashley, Jack Cashill, Jack, thank you so much.
It's an honor and a pleasure to have you here.

Speaker 2 (01:51):
Thanks for having me. It's my honor to be here.

Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, where to start now, we've read a lot of
your books, Jack, and you have a very rare quality
in that you take a nonfiction event or person, a
real life person, and you're able to assemble the receipts,
if you will, in such a way that it reads

(02:15):
like a novel. That's such a blessing for people that
read nonfiction like I do.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Well. You know, I read a lot of nonfiction too,
and I in fact, virtually all my reading is nonfiction.
I read a lot, maybe a book a week, but
I find myself drawn to stories where the writer knows
how to tell a story. You know, it's not just information.
Information is useful. What I've always tried to do is

(02:41):
put people at the front and foremost, so that the
books are positive, so even if the person is suffering
an unfortunate fate, you can admire their courage and their
tenacity and their persistence. You know, in their models, people
like to read about people. I like to write about people.
What I set out to do with Ashley, and that

(03:03):
is to write about people. Starting with Ashley babbittt the
Young Air Force veteran who was shot and killed on
January sixth.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
That I want to We're going to get into that,
but I just before we do, can you give us
just a little bit of your background. Didn't you know
from an early age that you were going to be
such a prolific writer.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
You know, it's odd because when I think back, I mean,
I came of age from the sixties, and I was undirected, right,
you know, I just didn't have a good focus. So
I had so little focused that I applied to graduate
school in sociology and I was already politically conservative. I mean,
I don't know what I was thinking, but I had

(03:45):
a good sociology teacher in college. Undergrad I went to Produce,
which pretty conservative place, and I remember putting on my
application and they said, what's your ultimate goal? I said,
my ultimate goal is to write popular books about American
culture right now. They accepted me in spite of that, because,

(04:06):
as I were, in the graduate school, you're supposed to
write unpopular books that are false. So I remember when
I did my dissertation and I shifted to American studies.
I submitted the first draft or the introduction whatever, and
I said, boy, we really like your writing style. It's
so breezy and journalistic and so easy to read. I said,

(04:27):
but that's not the way it has to be. You've
got to complicate it, if you've got to make it
less readable. I mean, they literally told me this otherwise
as academic muster, and so I did for that, but
I didn't do it too much. I can still read
my dissertation. And my dissertation was on the capitalist as
hero in the American novel and I got that by

(04:51):
the committee. And I still have a PhD. But I
I didn't at the time I got my PhD. People
think this the is recent phenomenon, not in universities. I
was white, male, and I was I was getting one
letter after another. I apply for university jobs. They'd say, sorry,
take the back of the bus. We're not interested in you.

(05:13):
We're only interested, they say, only interested in women and minorities.
And fortunately I was married to a female, which is
at that time was fairly normal. And my wife is
a professor, and she was much more employable than I was.
So I just said, you know, she had all kinds
of offers. I didn't even have a single interview. None

(05:35):
of the guys I went to grad school with at
a single interview. So I said, just find the place
that is big enough to support me. I didn't want
to end up in a Champagne or Bana or some
you know, college down where I'd be driving a taxi
cab or something. So we ended up in Kansas City.
You know, I'd rather have stayed in East Coast. I

(05:56):
grew up in New Jersey, but this was just a
just the right size city for a person like me,
because I didn't want to go to a big megalopolis either.
You know, I went to high school in Manhattan. I
didn't want to do that. I don't want to live
that life, you know. And Kansas City was a sort
of like Nashville. You know, it's kind of a Cincinnati. Besides,

(06:16):
there are manageable size cities. And then I started writing
to escape the kind of jobs I was working in
before that, you know. So when I first got to
Kansas City, the job I was working with the housing authority,
right was grown up in a Newark housing authority, So
they figured I knew something about housing authorities, and I
wanted to I wrote my way out of that.

Speaker 1 (06:36):
Basically, that's fascinating and the nature of your writing is
contrarian and nature.

Speaker 3 (06:43):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
And to me, all that means is you tend to
expose hidden truths or agendas about an event or a person.
And what is it about a person or an event
that compels you to down that rabbit hole?

Speaker 2 (07:01):
To be fair, I am rarely the first person in
on a story, and so a lot of the heavy
lifting's been done by the time I get there. And
what I find is that you have these major stories
that no one has had the wherewithal to put together
into a long form narrative. And then when you start researching,

(07:21):
then you begin to find nuggets. I mean, you're like,
it's like wandering into Cutter's Creek in eighteen forty eight,
being the first guy in, and there's big nuggets all
over the place. People come behind you, you know, are
scraping for whatever. But and the beauty of it from
my perspective, and this is the tragedy for America. All
those useful for me is that the major media shy

(07:44):
away from the big stories, right, they leave them on
the table. So why am I writing the definitive books?
On twa flight day at Hunter, one of the great
untold stories of our time. Why did I write the definitive
book on the death of Ron Brown? Right, the New
York Times had I on the airplane that crashed in Croatia,
and he didn't even ask for the Air Force report.

(08:05):
I was the first one to asked for it. And
that was seven years later and twa fight eight hundred now,
just give you for instance, once they changed their story,
the official the FBI had to say that the bomb
residual over the plane was done by a careless dog
training exercise guy. Right, a cop in Saint Louis who
did a carroless job with his dog training. And so

(08:27):
when I called that officer, oh, that was five years
after the crash, I was the first person to talk
to him in the media. Wow, I mean, so I
kept I kept running into these things. The one story
that I did break, it was kind of revealing in
terms of had the media work, was when I unearthed
the fact in September of two thousand and eight that

(08:51):
Bill Ayers had a major hand in the writing of
Barack Obama's Dreams from My Father. If that story had
gotten traction, that's acknowledgists at the time, it would have
been the end of the campaign. Right to have this
guy who he just owned Barre knew him was. Actually
they were having dinner together every week, and they were
Obama was not a writer, so the whole myth of

(09:13):
him as being this literary giant would have been shattered. Worse,
his whole lie about not being tied into Chicago radical
politics would have been shattered. He would have lost the election.
So Linivaul RuSHA Walblas starts talking about this and and
me by name about a month before the election. So
your life gets funny at that point, you know, because

(09:35):
I had the October surprise of my aunt, you know,
and then I realized very quickly that no one wanted it,
including our side, which.

Speaker 3 (09:45):
Goes against the narrative.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
And unfortunately we do have too many. Well they call
it a uni party for a reason.

Speaker 2 (09:52):
Right, Yeah, there are always good people in Congress, but
they are never enough of them, right.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
Yes, one hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
What was it Deteauville that said there may be men
of principle in each party in America, but there is
no party of principle as well.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
That's a great If you didn't say it, you should have.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
Said it exactly.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
So let's walk that out.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
That application of Hey, there's a narrative that's been written,
maybe some heavy lifting done, and let's apply that to
January sixth, which, just as a spectator, I immediately Jack went,
there's something not right here, right, And so can you
tell us a little bit about that journey and how

(10:35):
you began to write the book.

Speaker 2 (10:36):
Yeah, I mean I wrote an article that appeared on
January eleventh, So I wrote it there or too before that,
and I will not name the publication. It's a reliable,
good conservative publication. For the first time, they edited my
piece right a critical part because I concluded it by saying,

(11:00):
in some future date, January sixth will be remembered as
a midwinter fourth of July, and they edited that out.

Speaker 3 (11:08):
Wow, Yeah, that had to go.

Speaker 2 (11:10):
And part of the reason was, and I talk about
this in the book Ashley, and we can get into that,
but we were led to believe and almost immediately that
a cop had been killed by the Trump protesters. That
but a total kibosh and any kind of real luistic
discussion about the event. So the Republicans ran for the

(11:33):
you know, for the the caves, the Romney's, the bushes,
and we're out there on Jay on January sixth, calling
an insurrectionist by like five o'clock that afternoon. But even
people who were outspoken were cowed into silence by the
fact that this was now a murderous mob, and they

(11:55):
have been very reluctant to let that go. In fact,
we talk to people all the time who still believe it.
And then they've added up more new bodies to that count, right,
every suicide for the next year. Instead of asking why
are these guys committing suicide? Or are they committing suicide?
And now they're just saying, well, now five people were
killed as a result of January sixth. I'm in Marck

(12:18):
Garland says that Biden said it. You know, all of
them say it.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Is it ignorance or complicit?

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Are they complicit because they were doing that before any evidence.
And I remember listening to one of my favorite conservative
commentators has a proclivity to give the judgment of charity
to government. It's not it's not all of the time,
but has enough background.

Speaker 3 (12:43):
To do that.

Speaker 1 (12:44):
I'm the complete opposite, and I remember being very upset
with this commentator, thinking to myself, how about we wait
for the evidence because the events still going on and
you've already, you know, called this a murderous mob or whatever.
We don't know, and so there's something clearly trying to
be shoved down our throats here.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
This is one fact that I stumbled upon it in
doing the book, and in course of it, I profiled
ten women, eight of whom survived that day, and two
of them did not, Ashley Babin and Roseanne Boiling. Now,
one of the eight women I profiled was a woman
named Sarah Carpenter. She was the NYPD retired, so she
comes down by herself just that morning on an impulse.

(13:26):
A lot of people came on impulse. They weren't planning
an insurrection. They all came unarmed. And then she's driving
back that night after a kind of tumultuous day at
the capitol, you know, not timing community violence. But she
waved the tambourine in the face of other cops, and
that was on her. Prosecutors called that the attention of
the jurors. But she's on her way back and she

(13:48):
calls a friend of hers who lives near the highway
in Maryland, and she says where she was that day,
and the friend freaks out, and Sarah says, why what happened,
and friend says, you killed a police officer. Your people
killed a Capitol police officer with a fire extinguisher. This

(14:08):
is on the evening of January sixth, and Sarah, I
mean she had been kind of a really festive mood
that everyone had a good time, you know that I
talked to or was having a good time, and now
she was total depression. She couldn't get out of bed.
The next morning, she oh my god, we killed someone.
That's how profound the impact was. Well, in fact, that

(14:30):
rumor existed on January sixth, and it was just rumor.
And then, fortunately for the conspirators in this case and
unfortunately for Brian sick Nick, he dies Capitol police officer,
Trump supporter, veteran of a series of strokes that were
totally organic, had nothing to do with January sixty autop

(14:52):
supports at a natural death. So here's where the diabolical
part comes into play. On probably the evening of January seventh,
after Sicnic, they know Sicknick has died. Two law enforcement officials,
according to New York Times, tell The New York Times
that Brian Sicknick was pro Trump supporters killed Brian Sicknick

(15:16):
by hitting him over the head with a fire extinguisher.
And here's the detail that they add. It's this sort
of ghastly and specific that he was rushed out of
the capital with blood boring from a big gash in
his head on the evening of the sixth. Someone fabricated
that story. It's in the print edition, and I have

(15:39):
that of the January eighth New York Times now. To
fulfill this incredibly ghoulish hoax, the Medical Examiner's office, and
here's the story there sits on the autopsy report for
one hundred days until it's forced out by judicial watch.
Should have been out in a week. And to commemorate

(16:00):
sick Nick on the unfortunate guy. It didn't deserve to die.
I mean, it's unfortunate, but they put his ashes in
rotun to the Capitol, the first person they do that too,
since Ruth Bader Ginsburg, right, And then they bury him
at Arlington National Cemetery and make him a national hero
and the martyr. That move silenced dissenters. And I remember

(16:25):
on day one people were saying, before this story broke
on January, I remember Jason Whitlock, who I follow and
I like, and I knew him from Kansas City. He
was saying, Oh, it's like a big panty ray that
what's everyone getting so excited about? Right, But then everyone
had to walk that kind of stuff back, right, because
now it was a lethal insurrection that was done consciously,

(16:46):
and it was done cruelly to everyone involved. And for
that period then every Jay sixer who came before the
courts was being told, the juries were being told. The
judges are being told that this was a lethal insurrection.
And then they kept adding the suicides on. So within

(17:07):
a year he had five people now killed, and the
prosecutors are still saying this to this day. They're still
saying it. Now they'll fudget a little say five people
were killed as a result of January sixth, but they're
not talking about our five by the four On protesters
who died, three of whom were killed by police action,

(17:28):
that is Ashley Babbitt, Roseanne Boilin, and Kevin Greeson who
had a heart attack after a flashbang blew up in
his face. Now there was Benjamin Phillips died earlier, but
his was seemingly natural causes that the police had yet
to start firing munitions into the crowd. So I mean three,
arguably three protesters were killed, and they had to kill

(17:51):
Brian Sicknick even though he's already dead, to offset the
martyrdom of Ashley Babbitt. They were freaked when they saw
that they may have created a martyr, right, and this
attractive young Air Force veteran who unarmed shot and killed
in cold blood patriots. Yes, but say what you will

(18:12):
about Michael Bird the police officer shot him. He wasn't
part of the plot. In fact, he screwed up the plot.
If there was a plot, he wasn't part of it.

Speaker 3 (18:21):
The one who shot Ashley.

Speaker 2 (18:22):
Yeah, okay, they didn't want that to happen. No one
wanted that to happen because it took the narrative out
of the Democratic hands for twenty four hours until they
got it back by having Sicknick killed. Sicknick did die
of natural causes, but they officially had him murdered in
New York Times. You should write a book just about that.

(18:44):
I mean, it's like, yes.

Speaker 3 (18:48):
Well, if we had a real media, we wouldn't.

Speaker 2 (18:50):
This wouldn't even I wouldn't have a job, you wouldn't
have to, we wouldn't be talking to.

Speaker 3 (18:55):
Each other, Oh my gosh, it's nuts. And it reminds me.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
I think it was Church that said a lie gets
halfway around the world before the truth gets up and
put its pants on in the morning. And really, this
is just a series of events. And that's why, you know,
when I take a look at your corpus of work
and I say, he's been doing this, he's kind of
been seeing the If you'll, if you'll pardon the hoodwink, right,

(19:23):
I'll just go ahead and use it the hoodwinking of
the American public, by whatever it is you want to
call it, the deep state, by the people that are bop, bribed,
or blackmailed. You know who knows, but I'm sure they're
all of them. And that started with and I'll remind
our audience that a t W eight hundred was the
nineteen ninety six crash, was the beginning of the twenty

(19:45):
four to seven news cycle. I remember it vividly, and
we were told at first. I think that it just
spontaneously combusted, a wire touched a wire or something happens
right on the way to France.

Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think it was.

Speaker 1 (20:03):
And just the I remember, after reading your book, going
back and looking at the interviews of Jim Calstrom, right,
and how seriously good he wasn't lying?

Speaker 2 (20:18):
Yeah, oh he was. He had he had become pathological
about it. I mean like that himself. I mean he was.
I could tell you one Jim Calstrum story that's kind
of actually kind of amusing in a way.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
And so we should say before that that Jim Calstrom
was the head of the FBI at the time investigation.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
Yes, and he was the public face of the investigation.
And you're right he was. He had become very good
at lying and lying to himself, starting with So if
you recall and a lead up to the twenty sixteen election,
Calstrum was the national security advisor for Fox News. Yeah,
he hated the Clintons, so he wasn't part of a
Clinton plot. And because Bill Clinton was the president at

(20:57):
the time, didn't be quite one hundred that went down
running for reelection. And I would get these letters from
family members whose kids were killed in the crash and saying,
I see it every time I see him. If he
wants to take down to Clinton, just tell the truth
about twa eight hundred. So I have a private investigator friend,
and she got me Calcrum's home address. I sent him

(21:19):
a registered letter and then I, uh to avoid all
the noise around the election because they live in a
democratic neighborhood and stuff. I went to France for a
couple of weeks, right, and I was I was doing
an in home tutorial to improve my French. And I
was a nice because I wanted to go someplace where
the weather was decent in November, sitting out overlooking the Mediterranean,

(21:41):
and I get a call. It says Connecticut. I get
a call. Oh yeah, Jack Ashwall. I said, yeah, this
is Calstrum. And then I had heard that he was
a vain bully, right wow, yeah, and he lived up
to his expectations, right think this af that bah blah
blah bah. And then he goes, how dare you blah
blah blah. He was really upset because he thought the

(22:03):
family members all loved him. Were the ones who took
their checks and kept their mouth shots loved him, but
the ones who were you know, uh inquisitive, did not.
And uh so I get them calm down, I say, Macimon,
we're on the same side of this issue. You know,
I admire what you're doing on Fox News, but you
have a chance to bring us home. You know, you
could blow the cultains out of the water with this

(22:25):
and then have no pun intended. Then he calmed down
a little bit and then finally said, so, what are
you telling me? Finally, are you telling me that that
terrorists shot down that airplane? I said, I wish I
could tell you that, because I preferred the story to
have been that. But in fact, as you know, I said,
our navy shot the plane down accidentally. And then then

(22:48):
he went really flew up them, right, And then he said,
you remind me of that f ing Pierre Salinger. Right.
Pierre Salinger was a press secretary, but he's a French
ambassador for a while. I met him in Paris once
and he goes, right after you know, the that thing happened,
he held a press conference on the f thing French riviera.

(23:13):
And I'm thinking, I'm glad he doesn't know where I
am not right right. I think this was the biggest conspiracy,
the French conspiracy since you know the X y Z affair,
you know. So you know, I got him to calm down,
but I know I didn't move him. He was he
was lying to himself so deeply. I think he's also
drinking at the time. But that's neither here nor there.

(23:35):
But the next night I get a call and I
pick it up. He says Connecticut. I said, well, he
must have had to come to Jesus moment, you know,
And I said, he goes, who is this? When I
asked pick it up? I said Jack Cashall. He goes, oh,
I butt dial. So history is lost. For a moment,
I thought I had him, you know, but.

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Wow, that is a fascinating eating story.

Speaker 1 (24:00):
It's you know, I remember him coming around in twenty
sixteen two Fox News, and it just you know, if
you were familiar with the story, that he's the he's
kind of the point guy that you remember. And we're
going to point people to your your author page, certainly
at at Jack Cashell dot com. And we recommend all

(24:23):
your books because they're fascinating.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
By the way, just Cashal dot com. Okay, my politicies, Cashal.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
My relatives that I'd say, they're still okay.

Speaker 3 (24:33):
That's good.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
But you know, you you go back to nineteen ninety
six and now we're here with the January sixth. Ashley
and the Women of January sixth is the newest book,
and we see the same underlying themes of deception of
corruption at the highest levels.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Right.

Speaker 1 (24:55):
And I'm famous for saying my gets tired of me
saying after the last four years, everything is on the
table for reconsideration.

Speaker 3 (25:05):
Yeah, I think you're right because there is a narrative.

Speaker 1 (25:08):
And this is why I love your books, because your
books kind of illustrate that throughout history and we need that.
So in your mind, what else do we need to
look at? And I try to give people agency jack
when we are fed, and I think more and more
people are coming around to this, and that's why I asked,

(25:28):
what is it about a situation or a person that
compels you to go down the rabbit hole? What should
we be looking for or at or listen to when
we're given a narrative?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Well, you know, I think one thing, just as a
question we should be careful about is assuming that a
given sequence of events as a result of a conspiracy.
You know, negligence and incompetence explain a lot, and it
can cloud's a picture. So I have I tell you what.

(26:02):
The least popular article I ever wrote was the title
No Virginia, a missile did not hit the Pentagon, right,
And I got it from the left and the right.

Speaker 3 (26:14):
I bet that's what I mean.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
I got hundreds of emails, and this is before people
put their thoughts into comments, which actually was very helpful
for authors, because you know, you're not getting all the
personal stuff to your in mailbox. But the on the
left they were saying, you fing government shill, right, and
on the right they were saying, you witless government shill.

(26:36):
What what I discovered at the time is that And
I've seen the numbers that on the left or nineteen
times more likely to use profanity. Yeah, And with that
forced me to do is write two subsequent articles about
the World Trade Center and one about Building seven. You know,
a bunch of anomalies do not make a conspiracy. You

(26:57):
get every eight hundred. Every detail has to point in
the same direction. If there's a critical detail that points
in another direction, you've got to deal with that before
you can you can jump in. And I got into
trouble with I'm going to name the name of one
very prominent talk show host because I wouldn't buy into

(27:17):
everything inside Job nine to eleven stuff. And I said,
he said, what do you think about that? And I said, well,
I said I think that what we saw is pretty
much what happened. Now, there may be, you know, people
who were involved on the side who knew more, or
there may be Saudi Arabians who were in picture or whatever.
But buildings, But airplanes flew into buildings, and they flew

(27:38):
into the Pentagon and one crashed in Pennsylvania. Maybe we
shot it down. Maybe that's possible. It would make sense
if we did. And that just this guy just wouldn't
have me. I'm back on the show again because he
for him, the conspiracy was so juicy that you didn't
even need the facts to support it, Whereas when you
write a book, you have a legal review going to

(28:00):
say stuff, it's not true, I would say, and I
get this. I find a little maddening now when people
talk about the JFK shooting right on which I'm total agnostic, right,
but I do believe that Lee Harvey Oswald's nott JFK.
What else happened that day? Who put them up to it?
I mean, there's a thousand questions you could ask, But

(28:21):
don't assume that their other gunman. I mean, that's never
been proven. And now people are just assuming, oh, what
we know about JFK. Well, no, we don't know about JFK.
It is a the great uh you know, Rorschach test
of the modern American reader and or observer. And you
don't let your you don't want to let your theories

(28:44):
outrun your facts.

Speaker 1 (28:45):
Basically, I think what a lot of people are doing
is it goes to pattern. Now, that's why I said,
after the last four.

Speaker 2 (28:50):
Years, right, four years, You're right, I've had I used
to qualify it a hundred the great untold conspiracy story,
but in the last four years, it's now like pair
in the top ten.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
Right, right, exactly.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
And I'm you know, and I agree there is a
lot of truth to don't ride off to conspiracy or cleverness.

Speaker 3 (29:10):
What you can explain with incompetence.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
I do think there are situations where it's not an
either or, it's a both and because I think the
incompetent enable the complicit.

Speaker 2 (29:21):
Right and the you know, it's like in the movie
Body Heat. I don't if you ever saw that with.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
William Brill, is that Kathleen Turner.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Kathleen Turner, Okay, yeah, at her peak moment, yes, yes,
but where she knows that the lawyer is incompetent, which
is why she hires him because that way she could
get out on an incompound legal incompetence thing exactly.

Speaker 1 (29:43):
That's a great analogy, right, look at the Epstein debt.

Speaker 2 (29:47):
Right. Well, if you know anything about the metropol and
Detention Center, you know that guards probably fall asleep. You
know that cameras probably don't work the people. If presuming
the work people involved in that, it could have taken
advantage of that, and then they'd have the alibi and
it would be well plausible enough to deceive you know,

(30:07):
a good chunk of American people. And I don't know
as a result, I'm anna eye you know, I'm agnostic
on that too. I just don't know enough. And my
advantage is that I wait awhile before I write something,
so that the dust has settled a little bit. And
now we're seeing that with the Trump assassination that's happening.
I mean every day you see stuff. But it's going

(30:28):
to be a while before we get to sort that out.

Speaker 1 (30:31):
Well, and that's another situation where you know, immediately Ockham's
razor says incompetence, right, But then you got to take
other things into consideration. I mean that someone allowed the incompetence?
Was someone aware you know?

Speaker 2 (30:45):
I mean, so there, that's exactly right. Yeah, negligents where
they neglectful on purpose? Right? Were they? Did they not
really care a Trump shot? I mean that's another level
of of the section that you have to do to
make sense out of it. I'd love to know more
about Crooks's background. We're still in there.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
Excuse me, you know the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
They couldn't get into his phone? Are you kidding me?
They're in my phone nowim So you know, they do
that with things that are counter narrative or that they've
messed up, and so there's always an element of again
complicit nature, whether it's the cover up, you know, whether
it's Watergate, or whether it's, hey, we plan this.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
So it's it's getting tougher to discern.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
That, right you know. In fact, I edited Jeff Shepherd's
book on called The Nixon Conspiracy. It's the ultimate book
on Watergate. It just came out about a year or
two ago, and they're making movies coming out. There's a
remarkable conspiracy took place there, a judicial conspiracy, and nonetlike
what happened? What's happening now? With January sixth you know,

(31:58):
conspiracy of all the major points of government getting together
to bring down a guy who had just won forty
nine states in an election. Now, unfortunately for Nixon, there
was a real crime at the core, so they you know,
he almost invited this, where as with with all the

(32:20):
charges against Donald Trump, they have to make up the crime,
right and even you know, ninety five percent of the
Jay six ers, they have to make up the crime.
And so it's it's a dangerous point in our history,
say the least.

Speaker 1 (32:38):
It's uh, it's more perilous than I remember it being
ever in my lifetime. So when you wrote Ashley in
the Women of January sixth, did you address that aspect
of it, of intent of from the law enforcement, from
the judiciary, from Congress, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:57):
Kind of. I you know, I started out just to
human interest story with a focus on Ashley Babbitt, and
then I included these other women because I just didn't
have enough information on Ashley. I couldn't write a book
saying Ashley might have thought this, should have thought that
when I could find other women who were like her,
like minded women who could fill in those actual details.

(33:18):
And I started with that, and I wanted, of course
to cover her shooting and how that happened. And then
of course I got involved with the Roseanne Boilin death,
which was even murkier, and then but that all finally
led me to the eleventh woman in this. I have
profile ten, but there's an eleventh woman who played a

(33:38):
key role in this. She's much in the news now
and that's Kamala Harris, right, And this has been coming
out in the last week or so, I don't know
for reasons I'm not quite sure of, but they, you know,
released this Inspector General report about the bomb right now.
This is Kamala's achilles heel in many ways. In terms

(33:59):
of January sixth, there's a Sherlock Holmes story, Arthur kind
of Doyle story about Sherlock Holmes. He's investigating the theft
of a race horse and he says to the owner
of the stables or whatever. He says, at what time
did your dog start barking? Your watchdrugs start barking? He goes, funny, thing,

(34:20):
it didn't bark, right, And so then Sherlock Holmes assumes
correctly that the dog knew the thief, right, otherwise, who
would have barked well? Kamala Harris is January sixth is
dog that did not bark as as came out just
this week. I mean, a lot of us have known

(34:41):
for a while, but partly because of the Secret Service
performance in Butler, Pennsylvania, brought it back under scrutiny. Is
that she was at the d NC on January sixth,
the Democratic National Committee headquarters. She was there at one
o'clock when the bomb was discovered outside the DNC, right

(35:02):
And what happened then is that the Secret Service came
and they took her to some undisclosed destination. There's no
scandal about her being at the DNC. There's nothing scandalous
about her going as some undisclosed location. There is something
scandalous about her not going to the Capitol because that

(35:23):
is where hundreds of jurors and judges were told that
Kamala was in the afternoon of during the riot on
January sixth. So every time a defendant came up to
be either for a hearing or for a grand jury
or whatever, the jurors were being told that since Kamala

(35:49):
Harris was a Secret Service protectee, wherever she was was
a restricted space and invading that restricted space meant that
you were going to get a higher degree upon it.
So it took a year before Politico finally revealed that
she was not at the DNC that afternoon at all,

(36:12):
and so they had to amend all these filings in
the scores of them, right, And they, of course they
amend the filings, but they find other ways the ration
up the punishment. And then on January sixth, twenty twenty two,
she finally acknowledged that she wasn't at the Capitol that
afternoon in a little speech in which she compared January

(36:34):
sixth to Pearl Harbor in September eleventh, but she didn't
say where she was. Now you can contrast her performance
with that of say AOC Alexandria Orcasio Quartets, who was
interviewed immediately. All the Democratic women rushed to the microphones.
Here's AOC sort of won up them, being a little

(36:56):
more narcissistic than many of her sisters. She said that,
you know, she was fearing for her life, and she's
telling this to DANEA. Bashers, and then she said, I
fell for my I was scared for my life and
even worse right well, personally, I'd be more feared for
my life than anything worse. But that's me. And then

(37:16):
Dana Bash said, you mean rape? Were you afraid of
being rape? And AOC said yes, right now, the Trump
rallies are filled with rapes. I mean, that's a commonplace.
We should know that. What utter narcissism. But she lived
on that, She dined out on that for the last
four years. I was, you know, they're all dining out
on this. I was just disclosed to being brutalized, rape, tormented, pillaged, whatever.

(37:40):
But Kamala Harris never said once, still has not. Neither
has Joe Biden that my vice president was within twenty
feet literally of an allegedly viable bomb. Never mentioned that,
still hasn't mentioned it. And then the question is why
right at this? And I get a little bit speculative,

(38:02):
and I look at the other things that happened at
one o'clock. For one, the still unidentified man was put
the noose up on the gallows that had been set
up in the Capitol grounds five hours earlier and left there.
I took the one guy who said I once tried
to put a volleyball on that up and they took

(38:23):
it down in five minutes. You know, these guys put
the gallows up, but they waited until just one o'clock
to put the nuisan And the guy is clearly visible,
but he's still unidentified. At one o'clock you see another
guy mount the scaffold and very authoritative looking, middle aged guy,
you know, saying come on this way, this way to
the Capitol. One o'clock. At just before one o'clock, we

(38:46):
see Ray Epps in his crew reached the exterior perimeter
of the Capitol grounds. Now Apps has been identified because
partly because he's so big and he stood out. But
finally he served. They got to slap his risk one
account of some nonsense charge no prison time. People did

(39:09):
less are serving twenty a prison At one o'clock. These
still unidentified bombers, plant bombs, outs are found outside the Capitol.
These things are all happening at one o'clock. Now here's
the guy who thwarts their plans. I believe is Donald Trump. Unwittingly,

(39:31):
his speech was supposed to begin at the Ellipse at
eleven am. He put out a Facebook thing, big speech
eleven am tomorrow the Ellipse. Now the Ellipse is forty
five minutes away from the Capitol, by walk by, and
everyone was walking and so he gives a speech. It
starts a nude instead of eleven. So at one ten

(39:52):
pm he says, we gotta fight. We gotta fight like hell,
you know. And that's sited in the j six Committee report,
cited in the Jack Smith's indictment that he incited this crowd.
He says, it's at one ten pm. The Capitol has
been breached. At one o'clock, they're at the front of
the of the building. At one six when the police

(40:14):
started launching munitions into the crowd. Trump hasn't even spoken
yet and they're forty five minutes away. So the whole
notion that he incited this crowd was nonsense. But personally,
and I speculate here, I think they had that one
o'clock planning, thinking that if he started at one, they'd
finished about noon, thousands of his people would have arrived

(40:35):
at the Capitol, so when they breached those perimeters, they'd
overrun it. And that didn't happen, but they had just
enough of a crowd to create a fuss. And then
with the Capitol police. It's really hard to tell where
and competence begins in conspiracy, right, You know, it's since
they were totally incompetent. They're lobbing you know, flash bangs

(40:59):
and tear gas that it couldn't disperse because they were
throwing it right into the middle of the ground, right, crazy,
smarter people knew that well.

Speaker 1 (41:08):
In all of these facts, again, it just lends more
uncertainty to that line right between complicit and incompetent.

Speaker 3 (41:19):
You take a look at the events.

Speaker 1 (41:21):
There and you know on the thirteenth the assassination attempt.

Speaker 3 (41:26):
Well, I mean we could go on and on.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Like I said, everything for me, everything I was told
for the last twenty years, is on the table, right,
And not that I'll take, you know, one line more
seriously the other. But I'm going to reconsider what I've
heard in the past and not just write something off.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
And because you know, once you're duped.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
That's the other aspect of this and why I'm so
grateful that you that you wrote the book is that
need more people in the call, whether it's music, whether
it's books, it's commentary or podcasts, whatever it is, to
put that information out there for people to consider.

Speaker 2 (42:07):
So an example of what you're talking about is you know, I,
I uh, virtually everyone who is virtually every woman who
was arrested was labeled as a q Andon fanatic. I mean,
there was such an instinctive, reflective thing, Ashley Babbitt the
day after you're skilled Trump supporter and qnon fanatic killed,

(42:28):
you know. And then I said, you know, can you
cute on to me? That was just this bizarre mystical
like Nostradamus thing.

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, so but at that is roote. You know, the
thing about which round the focuses is Pizzagate, right, so
I started looking at the pizza gate, Oh, pizza gay,
pizza gate. And then further I get into it. Don't
write this one off right, this went off, you know.

Speaker 1 (42:58):
The way they react, in the way they set other
people up. And I think it was I think it's
Saul Alinsky. Is that you accuse the others of doing
or being what.

Speaker 3 (43:06):
You are or are doing right right right. It seems
to be.

Speaker 1 (43:10):
So much incompetence that you have to say, there can't
be that much incompetence.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
No, I mean, you gotta be careful, but yet it's
hard to believe there is that much incompetence. The ultimate
metaphor here, which most people on the left still don't understand.
Is the whole red pill phenomenon, right, which was you
know from the movie The Matrix. Yes, Morpheus says to
his tyro Nemo or I forget Yeah, and he says,

(43:36):
you know, here's your two pills. You take the red pill,
you take the blue pill. You wake up tomorrow morning,
everything's just as it was. You're comfortable in your thoughts.
You know, you can live in ignorance, or you take
the red pill. And once you take the red pill,
then the scales fall away, and then you'll never see
the whole world the same again. I think the most serious,
the most consequential red pill of the last twenty years

(44:02):
was taken when Elon Musk tried to open his Tesla
plant in Fremont, California, in twenty twenty, and they told
him he couldn't do it, and then the scales fell
off his eyes and then he began looking around. He
was an Obama supporter, and his transition has been, from

(44:25):
our perspective, the most positive thing that's happened to the
media probably in my lifetime. You know.

Speaker 3 (44:31):
Yes, and I was.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
One red pill that did it on one thing on COVID.
All of the women that I interviewed. I interviewed all
the eight women that it were that survived that day,
and as well as what I know about Ashley Babbitt,
Roseanne Boile and I I just could not find out
whether this was true or not. But the other nine

(44:56):
were all frontline COVID dissenters from day one. They all
reacted to what Ashley called the control of virus, you know,
in the same wow, I'm not going to submit to this, right,
That was a common theme among JA sixers everywhere, and
they were.

Speaker 3 (45:14):
Right right, interesting, yes, for sure.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
And one of the file, and who I've gotten to
know pretty well is doctor Simone Gole. Is not your
your grandfather's version of a JAY six er, you know,
she's she's very distinctive, you know, profile. But she was
got involved because she believed that the whole medical establishment

(45:38):
was being subverted and they were you know, that was
a trigger. Some of these women weren't even political before COVID. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:46):
Well, and that's an interesting tie in because when you
talked about Elon Musk and the benefits of his red pilling,
if you will, my mind also went to Robert Malone
Pierre Corey, both of whom have been on this program,
and Pierre Corey's story in particular is stark. You know,

(46:08):
I remember seeing him in Columbus at an RFK junior
event with Children's Health Defense, and.

Speaker 3 (46:13):
This was in twenty twenty one, I think or twenty
twenty two, and he tells a story.

Speaker 1 (46:20):
He said, look, I was your typical New York liberal.
I read the New York Times every day cover to
cover and I believed every word.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
Yes, and he is.

Speaker 3 (46:30):
The complete opposite. Now, I mean he's but he's been.
That's what did it.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
They tried to destroy him, even though ostensibly he was
on their side. He learned that what he knew, his acumen,
his experience, and the truth of what was going on
with these patients, his patients didn't matter. They were going
to lie about him, and they were going to destroy
him because he wouldn't toe the line right. And so

(46:59):
it's an interesting tie in that the women of J
six were we're COVID dissenters.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
I think there were a lot.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
More women than men initially, but that might that might
have flipped.

Speaker 3 (47:11):
So I don't know.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
No, I had that surprised me. I wasn't looking for
that at all, and then I kept finding in each
of their you know, and now you know, and then I,
I and some of them were arrested, you know, for
you know, not wearing masks and whatnot.

Speaker 3 (47:22):
No.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (47:23):
And this is even before like vaccine mandates, you know.
So No, And I because I was a Day one dissenter.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Right, yes, I was.

Speaker 2 (47:32):
I And I went on my Facebook page. I live
in Kansas City, every certain presidents in Kansas City, and
I said, hey, I'm willing to be the public face
of anti lockdown. I'm willing to get out, but hold
the sign up. And you know, you know, and I
have you know on Facebook is good for local communication
among sure you know, political groups, And I got, well,

(47:53):
I don't know, Jack, I know early you know.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
Wow, And you know a lot of it is in stinctual,
you know. I very rarely give the judgment of charity
to government, regardless of whether or not they were accurate.
I mean, I knew when Fauci went from there's nothing
to see here to you're all gonna die gasping for
air waiting on a hospital bed. No, that's that missing

(48:19):
link is with Darwin. And it was clear I think
from the from the beginning. But regardless of what we
were dealing with. And I know a lot of people
are still upset that because Trump got played like a
strata varius, I think mainly by Burkes, and they're hoping that,
you know, he's come around on some of the things,
but he you know, they tried to nail him for

(48:41):
talking about hydroxychlor quinn and ivermectin. So I think it's
a it's a give and take there. But you know,
government's not the boss of us, Jack.

Speaker 2 (48:51):
I hope not. To Trump's credit, he made one major
positive decision and that was delegating to the states absolutely
decision making process. So my daughter and my grandchildren live
in Florida, so i'd go. You know, it's like going
back to America. Missouri isn't bad, but actually Missouri is

(49:13):
pretty good. Kansas City was terrible, but so cities are
all bad. But so I found myself going to lunch
in the next county. Right, once you left that county,
you're back in America again, right, And this.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Is why, you know, throughout that whole thing, And we'll
tie this back into J six in the Bill of Rights. Right,
you know, life, liberty, and property protected by the Bill
of Rights, which is to limit government's ability to take
those things away, right, and you're not to encroach. Right,
government is not to encroach. It's just it's so axiomatic.

(49:46):
But a lot of people are just run by fear,
and I think they think government was meant to keep
us safe, not free.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
Right, And that's.

Speaker 1 (49:54):
A fundamental issue. I think that that we have to
deal with.

Speaker 3 (49:57):
But very frustrating.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
But to your point about going across the county, we
just kept telling people, there's a reason your sheriff is
the most important elected official.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
In the nation, right, right, because he can stop this in.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
Its tracks, right, And it's important to know who your
sheriff is. And your sheriff needs to know why he's
the most important elected official, right.

Speaker 2 (50:20):
You know, I'm communicating to you. I have a place
in New York State on right on Lake Erie. But
so I drive from Kansas City to New York State
here western New York. And I was doing it several
times because I wasn't gonna fly unless I had to
the summer of twenty twenty and as and I take

(50:40):
a back kind of back rose. It puts me in Hannibal, Missouri. Right.
Mark Twain's you know, stompingunbal Missouri was pretty lax. Hannibal
was a town without In this summer of twenty twenty
it became my favorite town. And no no restrictions at all. Right,

(51:02):
And so sometimes you go to the shop. The did
a lot of little curio shops there, and only then
they say, you know, wearing masks up to you. We
have no mandates here, you know, so yeah, mask option.
I go to the diner and local, the Becky Thatcher Diner,
and the waitresses don't wear a mask. No one wearing
a mask. That diners don't wear a mask. It's like America, right, yeah,

(51:22):
And then I hop over the bridge until driving west
east now and into Illinois, and everyone's masked up. Then
you get back into the ad it's okay, right, it
is not too bad, you know, New York State. It's
like entering you know, checkpoint Charlie. I mean, it was
ridiculous the restrictions here. And then I found the diner

(51:44):
out in the country and had a huge sign and
said support the US Constitution free in New York State.
And I said, I did a U turn. I went
back to that diner and I've been going out there,
so there you go.

Speaker 1 (51:56):
Nice, Yeah, I think a lot of businesses are. You know,
they delineated themselves. You know, I understand that people were
afraid or whatever. But when they started shutting down churches
and churches started complying. I mean, like I said, I'm
not a judgment of charity toward government. So Romans thirteen

(52:20):
and I you know, government really has to keep its
end of the bargain on Romans thirteen, to not be
a terror to people, to punish wrong, not right right.

Speaker 3 (52:28):
And when government.

Speaker 1 (52:32):
Mandated what God prohibited, which is a shutting down of
our churches. You know, God commands that we meet and
government tried to prohibit it, that was tough to take.
To me. I thought we all should have been marching,
and that should have been j six. We all should
have been protesting.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
Right in my church. I go to a traditional Latin church.

Speaker 3 (52:53):
Oh really, yes?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
And so what happened is it's in right over state
line in Kansas, and and they shut down everything for
six weeks. You couldn't do anything. And then when they
opened up in May, we just got to notice it
said church will we will have church services again on
May eighth or forest or whatever, and no other there

(53:15):
were no other instructions, right, unlike most churches. So I
get there and the church is full. No one's wearing mask,
No one was told anything spontaneously they came. Church was full,
shoulder and shoulder. No one's wearing masks, I know. I said,
there's one family wearing masks. Everyone looked at him, like,
what's wrong with you? And and we just several hundred

(53:36):
people and communion on the tongue, you know. No, you know,
none of these bizarre things. And I'd go to other
churches and it'd have even up here in New York
State that summer and it would be like twenty five
percent maximum attendance. We have to take your temperature before
you come in, right, okay, And I said, what happened

(53:58):
is that my church flourished. I mean people started coming
to it from other churches where they were wards of
the state, and they weren't even pretending to have pautonomy.
So it was good for us, but you know, and
not good for other churches because they lost their way.

Speaker 3 (54:13):
It was clear, Yeah, that's unfortunate.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
We'll have to you know, we could spend another hour
on the five oh one see three status that that
I think dictates a lot of that, but Jack, I
could talk to you for at least three more days.

Speaker 2 (54:27):
It was a conversation. You know, I love starting off
by talking about the larger picture because I don't usually
get a chance to talk about that.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
Absolutely, and that's but that's kind of what you do.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
You you know, you create an umbrella, You dive down deep,
and then you can finish strong. You come back to
the UH to the big pictures before we go. Is
there anything that you would like the audience to know
two or three points? Maybe it's just one about January
sixth and the women in January sixth.

Speaker 2 (54:53):
I would say that, you know, as I I one
of our taglines was you know when I started was
like the question was why did these women go to
Washington on January sixth? And I came away with thinking
why did the rest of us stay home? As Thomas
Jefferson might say, what's the word he uses the injuries

(55:14):
and help me out here? Usurpations, usurpationents. That's sort I
keep forgetting that word of the previous five years were
so grave that we all should have been there protesting.
You're probably one of a million people who could have
filled it. Yes, right, that's a homeschooling.

Speaker 3 (55:32):
Does that's a homeschool right there?

Speaker 2 (55:34):
Yeah, no injuries and usurpatients. He uses them to say
the listening injuries and usurpationients that precipitated the revolution, you know,
the separation from Great Britain. Yeah, but in this case,
the injuries and usurpations mandated that we all show up.
So if you're like, let's say, Rebecca Lavrenz, you're a

(55:54):
great grandmother from Colorado Springs, and you jump in your
car and you drive by yourself two days to get
to the Capitol to pray for the nation. You walk
into an open door and you come out ten you
pray for the nation. Then you come out ten minutes later,

(56:15):
and then they ruin your life for the next four years.
The blah blah blah. You should have gone, We all
should have been there, because if you're that woman, how
do you make your voice heard? Right? And she is,
by the way, she's using her punishment to become an
outspoken champion of prayer justice in the American way. Good

(56:38):
for her. On August twelfth. By the way she'll find
out with her sentencing is she hasn't been sentenced yet. Wow,
but I did go to her trial in March.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
I mean that's even that was just to travel the
time without due process. The I don't know if they
even had real due process, you know, as it was
intended by the Blackstone jurisprudence right.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
Upon which we were founded. But yeah, I agree with
you Jack.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
It's to my point about why aren't we all in
the streets when government is clearly encroaching and violating their
portion of the social contract, if that's what you want
to call.

Speaker 2 (57:19):
It, right, maybe the closing note, when Christopher Ray the
other day, I was watching the hearing and I was
really I thought it was unfortunate no one took him
up on as he said, you know, we had eight
hundred people we guilty, and without the adding the caveat
because we have rig jury's and if they went to trial,

(57:42):
they'd all be convicted. We're convicted, right, And you can't
brag about one hundred percent conviction, Ray, especially when no
one's given a change of venue. Yeah, you can't brag
about that. And they need to be held of accountable,
you know, one way or another.

Speaker 1 (57:59):
Well, I hope so I don't hold my breath anymore
about justice. But I hope that in my lifetime I
see it, just even a portion of it. And I
do know that if I do see it, a lot
of it's going to be cut b because you've done
a lot of the due diligence that our media hasn't.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
Well. I think it's providence involved too.

Speaker 3 (58:23):
You know, well, sure, sure, I appreciate.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Yeah. Coincidence is God's way of staying anonymous, you know.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Indeed, yes, I would love to have you back on
until then, Take care and God bless.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
Okay, that's all we have for today.

Speaker 1 (58:43):
Jack cash Hill, you can find information about him and
his books at cash Hill dot com.

Speaker 3 (58:51):
That's c A. S. H.

Speaker 2 (58:52):
I L L.

Speaker 1 (58:53):
Cash Hill dot com and again, prolific writer, excellent writer.
And you can find his new book, Ashley, The Untold
Story of the Women of January sixth at that website.
I'm sure you can find it on Amazon and other outlets.
I want to thank everyone for listening today. Thank you
as always, Magic man Joe Strecker. Until next time, who

(59:15):
will stand at either hand and keep the bridge with me,
have a great day,