April 8, 2024 • 39 mins
After a brisk Easter hiatus, Amesh and I are back - with a vengeance. In this week's episode, Amesh and I pour some alcohol in the Williams-funded fire, smugly toasting our marshmallows over the soon-defunct career of yet another paid driver. Join us as we recommence the GOAT debate in the sport of F1, and muse with us over the possibilities and probabilities of Hamilton's Ferrari stint. All this and more in this week's episode of F1 Isn't Real. Welcome back.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:13):
Hello, and welcome back to Fone. Isn't real. I am your
host Ben Wevell, who spent hispast week planning my resignation from the Williams
Financial Department, and I'm joined thisweek by mister v One himself amic for
our groggy eyed recap of the twentytwenty four Japanese Grand Prix. Amish,
(00:35):
We've had a little easter hiatus,but it's been quite a week, hasn't
it. Yeah, it's been agood break. Happy to get back into
F one. As always, thisweekend has been somewhat eventful, but at
the same time it has been abit lacking in some departments, especially for
a Japanese Grand Prix. But yeah, I think there's quite a lot to
(00:58):
a decent amount to dig deep intothis weekend. For sure, there is,
For sure there is. Let's onthe subject of this weekend, let's
get down to business. Let's getinto it. And first off, unfortunately,
as I alluded to in the intro, we are talking about Williams Racing,
who may be in a bit ofa spot of bother at the moment.
(01:21):
We saw Logan's sergeant go off atthe Dunlop Curve in FP one obviously
a driver era there he got onthe grass. It was a bit damp,
somewhat understandable, but still a mistake, huge amount of damage and probably
was a big setback for Williams thisweekend. And then another mistake Ricardo album
(01:44):
tangling at turn three first off image. Before we get into what this could
mean for Williams, is this anopening lap incident or was there a huge
driver era that led to this hugecrash? Well, in terms of the
uh Logan Sergeant event in Ft one, I think that might be. I
(02:06):
think that's that's its fault. Youknow, if you look at if you
look at the replays, he puthis wheel in the grass and then it's
inevitable that a crash is going tohappen, especially a track like Suzukah.
For Alex that one, I'd liketo say, that's just a racing incident.
You know, Turn one into actsAzukah is really difficult for lap one,
(02:28):
you know, so taking it takingit like that, it's not It's
not good news for Williams. Youknow this. The last two weekends have
been quite disappointing and damaging to theirfinance and research and development because it's been
two weekends where they've had a tonof DNFs and a ton of crashes,
(02:49):
which has really set them back,and it's quite important. Yeah, loads
of dns crush, bad publicity.Just generally the vibe around Williams is really
slipping from their perception last year,where you know you have this grassroots team
of course, who have been throughalmost every stage of Formula One team can
(03:12):
be in and they really seemed backon the up into maybe the lower midfield.
But now we've sort of seen themthis season zero points so far on
the board. What is Williams's greatestconcern at this point in the season.
I'm going to be brutal and sayit's Logan Sergeant. I don't like putting
(03:36):
it all on one driver, butwhen it comes to a situation like this,
we've seen it before with Nicholas theTIFI and then other teams as well,
not to mention Lance Stroll which isstill going, but I think Logan
Sergeant is definitely the liability here inthe team. Even though the Williams doesn't
(04:00):
have a single point on the boardyet, I think looking at race results
past p ten, Alex album isdefinitely carrying the team, even though it
has been a rough couple of weeksof the team, and Alex Alban himself.
I think he's definitely proven that hecan he can perform. So that's
(04:24):
why I'm doing less blame on himand more blame on Logan Sergeant. It's
the sad truth, but I thinkthat's that's how I feel about this whole
situation. Is Logan Sergeant's position injeopardy? Do you think not just for
next season, but for possibly midseason? How likely is it do you
think that he's going to make ituntil the United States Corn Prix. I
(04:47):
think it's unlikely. You know,then, I think I'm quite confused about
what Williams were doing in between theend of last year and the beginning of
this year, because there was somedoubts about Logan Sergeant at the end of
last year. They signed him andimmediately he's just been not performing as to
(05:09):
what they expected him to be.And I guess you could say it's a
mistake and they just wanted to havethat a little extra hope with Sergeant.
But at the same time, inF one, you can't afford to take
these risks when your probability is quitelow. Given a poor track record.
No, I think I'm sort ofdisappointed by the Williams team for doing this.
(05:31):
I think they could have opened upthe seat into someone a bit more
promising or with a bit more potential. So yeah, I think they're just
in the mud at the moment.Do you think Williams needs You know,
obviously we saw with Hass for example, switching over to sort of that side
of things, right, We sawwith Hass they were a reliant for a
(05:53):
very long time post the Roman incidentof twenty twenty on drivers who are in,
you know, an influx of moneyand hopefully better performances. Do you
think Williams is reliant on the sortof source that Logan Sergeant is, as
you know, someone who could breakthem into the ever expanding American market in
(06:17):
formula one? Do you think they'rereliant on that? And that's possibly why
he's been given a second chance.And what do you think it would take
to break that reliance, because ofcourse, you know, we saw with
Nicholas Latifi three years of poor performancesand that was his lot. But Logan
Sergeant has only had a few yearsin order to prove himself. Some could
(06:40):
argue that maybe with more you know, refining he could become a decent driver.
Do you think Williams are ever goingto or how long do you think
it will be until Williams gives upthe ghost on yet another failed page Driver.
Well, I mean, I thinkrecently F One has definitely been trying
to get in more publicity for America. We've seen what three races last year
(07:06):
in this year in the United States, where I think for a fan perspective,
it should be more global and lessAmericanized. I think that's what fans
want. I'm not sure that's thereason why Logan Sergeant still has a seat.
I think there is a lot ofpublicity done by F One Corporation themselves
(07:29):
instead of the teams. And Ithink the reason I'm not quite sure the
reason why Williams have decided to keepLogan Sergeant. I think it's because they
just want to have that. Ithink they just have some sort of hope
with him. But if you butit looks like they haven't learn from their
lesson with the likes of Nicholas theTV, which has brought me that confusion
(07:53):
I was talking about before, Ben, But yeah, I think that's and
that's what what's going on now,and in terms of the future for Logan
Sergeant's contract, if he doesn't performas well as Alex Album, I think
he will be losing his seat atthe end of this year minimum. I
(08:18):
think I'm not sure whether he canbe pulled out of a seat according to
the contract. We've seen that within the Redwell family, but I'm not
quite sure how it works in Williams. And I'm not really sure who would
replace him at the moment if thatwas a possibility, Yeah, I think
it would be a difficult one.I don't think, you know, I
sort of I floated the idea ofZay Maloney last time we last time we
(08:43):
talked possibly for a seat in FormulaOne. I don't know if anybody inn
F two right now, or maybeother than Taylor Porchair, really can take
up the mantle of Formula one driver. I don't know if they're mature enough,
both in mentality and in driving style. But obviously Logan Sergeant is creating
more problems than he's solving at Williams. But on the other side of things,
(09:07):
you know you have Alex Albon.He's been a bit of a tough
nut to crack so far. Thisyear. I mean two P eleven's for
sure, but one of those wasoff the back of a Pierre Gasley penalty
that per eleven in Australia. Sohe's been close to or near enough to
the points. But you know,last year, one of the things that
really impressed me with Alex and iswhy I predicted around the start of the
(09:31):
season that he could be moving upinto the Mercedes scene, is that,
you know, he just has thisability to grasp opportunities that so many other
F one drivers don't take, andso far he's sort of been lacking in
that front. What do you thinkis that's changed for him, if anything,
(09:52):
and why has there been such adisparity between his performances this year and
his confidence in the FW forty fiveof last year. Well, I think
as our performance last year, itwas above and beyond. It was definitely
(10:13):
carrying the Williams team for the machinerythat he was given. I think he
definitely outperformed his expectations and he showedother teams what he was capable of.
I think when we were talking aboutin the last episode one of the most
recent episodes about twenty twenty five predictions, I think I put Alex Albourne in
(10:35):
one of the top teams because teamsshould be looking at him based on his
twenty twenty three seasons. As ofthis year, I think I'm not going
to say I'm disappointed with his performance. I'm going to blame it on being
(10:56):
unlucky because of certain incidents. Youcan say that his crashes or his crash
incident has been could have been hisfault. But at the same time,
there have been numerous occasions this earlystage of the season where Alex album has
the ability to score points, buthe's being held back by the machinery that
(11:20):
he's been put in. I thinkthis Williams car isn't as good this year
than it is last year. I'mnot quite sure why. I think maybe
because all of the other teams aroundthat back marker zone has sort of improved
a bit more over the winter.I really like to see the album succeeed
this year, especially coming off theback of last year, and I really
(11:45):
hope that Williams do find some researchand development over the next few races and
they can come back fighting strong,stronger than they were last year. Yeah,
they've been in a bit of adownward spiral I think these past few
years, oh sorry, just thestart of this year, where it's sort
of gone from you know, decentsort of moving forwards, and I think
(12:05):
they might have taken a step backhere and imprompt you step back, and
I think that's the last thing thatWilliams need really, just to have both
of their drivers kind of you know, I think Logan Sergeant definitely disappointing,
needless to say. But you know, Alex album sort of now on the
cusp of disappointing zero points from fourraces. It's a difficult one to It's
(12:31):
a difficult one to again put blameon Alex because he's brought Williams so much
success. I mean comparative success thatis certainly not success compared to the days
of old, but comparative success nonetheless, and so you know, it's difficult
to put it all on him.But I think maybe you know, maybe
a two year contract or maybe amulti year contractors in a similar way to
(12:58):
you know, some other drivers onon the grid, like battery prosats for
example, perhaps like a multi yearcontract isn't particularly good for him because now
it puts him in a sort ofsense of security that he you know has
previously not been able to afford,and maybe that's made him slightly more,
slightly less likely to put his footon the gas and try as hard as
(13:22):
he can every single Grand Prix.Not to say that Alex isn't trying hard,
but maybe he's been given, youknow, the opportunity to relax a
bit because he knows he's comfortable inthat Williams seat, and perhaps that means
that his performances are sort of followinga similar pattern. But I don't think
it's right to assume in that thatthat is always necessarily the case. But
(13:43):
switching over to somebody who I dothink has got a bit too secure for
his own good, Daniel Ricardo,the other driver in that incident that ripped
apart the turn three tire barrier ina pretty dramatic fashion. He's really disappointed
this season in my in my books, I think he's just been off the
(14:03):
pace compared to Uki. I thinkhe's been certainly not what red Bull,
certainly not what the RB's formerly AlfaTaria were expecting, and how how how
much do you think his seat isalso perhaps in jeopardy in the same way
(14:24):
that his teammate Nick Devrees's was lastyear, and what do you think Daniel
needs to do in order to possiblyregain some hope at the RB's racing balls
using cash app et cetera, etcetera. Well, I think this is
a very interesting topic. I thinkDaniel Ricardo is definitely a love driver in
(14:46):
this sport of F one, butin recent years his performance has been on
a decline. I'd like to saythere's a reason he didn't have a seat
for the beginning of twenty twenty three, and unfortunately he didn't prove the grid
wrong in the sense that he didn'tcome back stronger than ever, performing really
(15:07):
well and scoring points. He hasn'tgot a single point this season, and
I know well Alex the album hasn'tbut compared to his teammate, Daniel Ricardo
is sort of falling behind. Yeah, Uk Snoda has has points this season,
(15:30):
yet Daniel Ricardo doesn't. And I'dlike to say with confidence that Daniel
Ricardo is on his last last strawat the moment in terms of being in
F one for good. I thinkhe's not necessarily an old driver, but
he's at the age where he wouldn'tbe retiring, but he would be finding
(15:52):
the elsewhere in a different category ofsport. Yeah, I think, to
put it bluntly in Layman's terms,that is, I think he's falling off.
You know, he had the biggesthigh of his career, I think,
probably in terms of performance compared toCarr in twenty twenty with Renner.
(16:15):
I think that was his peak probablywhere he was performing, you know,
out of his socks obviously in thatshortened season, but you know, he
was really putting in a great shiftin the COVID restricted year. But yeah,
it's been downhill, considerably downhill sincethat point, and I think now
(16:37):
he's sort of staying in the sportat the moment purely off of sort of
the name and the acclaim that he'smanaged to and the good favor that he's
managed to gain so far. Butyeah, it is not looking good for
Daniel at the moment. I thinkhe could definitely be without a seat sometime
(16:59):
soon. Maybe they'll give them theyear, but yeah, I worry for
him for sure. But switching itup, moving on to the I guess
midpack nearer the Helm of the Grid, we saw strategy really come into play
for one of the first times reallythis season. It was it was a
big important factor. How surprised wereyou that Ferrari were the ones getting things
(17:22):
right? It's a it's a funnyit's a funny topic. Ben. I
mean, I'm I'm glad that theydid get it right. It's a shame
that it came where they're not necessarilyfighting. Actually, I think maybe they
could be fighting for for the championshiplater on in the season based off how
(17:45):
things have gone so far. ButI'm actually really happy to see bar doing
doing well and performing to their expectations. Historically, you know, everyone sees
Forrari the greatest teamers of all time. Mike Sebastin Better said, everyone is
a Ferrari fan, which basically meansFerrari have a lot of pressure on their
(18:10):
shoulders. And I think this hasbeen the first weekend in years where they
didn't nail it completely because they didn'tgather race win, But in terms of
they did the best they could andthis was the best possible result that they
could have had given the conditions andgiven you know, how how could their
car is this weekend? Yeah,but yeah, I think Ferrari, you
(18:33):
know, I wouldn't say that thisis sort of signifies that they're moving on
to bigger and brighter things in termsof strategy. But yeah, it's certainly
a step in the right direction.But moving on to sort of the other
side of the strategy strategy spectrum thisweekend, Lewis Hamilton probably got dealt the
worst hand out of the top youknow, six or seven starters. He
(18:59):
started in seven, ended up ninth, fell behind his teammate George and frankly
he's had a pretty disappointing year aswell, certainly compared to Lewising's extremely high
standards, with only ten points fromfour races, I mean, compared to
George's twenty four, that's pretty Imean, that's certainly a dip compared to
(19:19):
how he's been doing as of late, you know, in recent years,
where even though he's been in thatMercedes, been wrecking in a couple of
podiums here and there. To whatextent is this possibly because of you know,
having some kind of lethargy around havingto perform in a similar way to
perhaps Alex album because he's locked infor that Ferrari scene next year, or
(19:42):
maybe maybe it's the other way aroundand we've got Mercedes not giving him the
best opportunities that they can for himto succeed because they know that he doesn't
need to be developed anymore and thathis car is basically you know, they
want to focus all their efforts onGeorge's car because they know George's their legacy.
Now, Kamish, where has thisdrop off come from or originated from?
(20:03):
Do you think I think it mightbe the case with Mercedes not giving
Lewis the full opportunity. It's notcompletely obvious who the favorite driver is,
and like you said, Lewis havingthat seat for twenty twenty five at Ferrari,
(20:26):
and that could potentially give Mercedes theincentive not to not to give him
They're all it does. It's notmoral, I don't think. I think
even while you're in the team,you should be treated equally or given equal
opportunities. Right. I'm not surewhat the case is, but I definitely
(20:48):
have seen a drop in Lewis Hamilton'sperformance. He seems like the same the
same driver with the same personality characterin a car out the car since is
it in since twenty twenty one,I think he's been consistent in the Maybe
it's the media, but on driverradios it seems like he's got that spirit
(21:14):
still and he definitely is capable ofwinning. But Mercedes just aren't performing on
their end. I feel I thinkthat they're not providing both George and Lewis
with a competitive car. It's evenif you look at Mercedes as a constructor
coming away from drivers and more ofa constructor, their customer teams for their
(21:37):
engines are performing substantially better than theyare as the as the works company.
As the works constructor. You knowMcLaren, Oscaryastri and Landon Norris a P
five and six in the in theDriver's Championship, they're well above Mercedes at
the moment. And I think there'sa lot of hermoil going on in the
(22:00):
Mercedes team. And I don't thinkLewis moving to Ferrari is helping them because
they're star driver, the driver who'ssort of made that or who has made
their entire successes as a team inF one, he's leaving. Yeah,
So I don't really think that theywould do anything to jeopardize that. I
(22:22):
don't think they would be thinking,oh, Louis Hamilton's going now, we
won't help him out. That's notthe case, because they are not going
to say that nothing without Lewis Hamilton. I'm just going to say he is
a primary cause of their success.And I'm not sure that's I don't think
that's how teams work necessarily in Fone. I think there should there still
(22:44):
is that respect and them still equaltreatment. Obviously in certain cases in terms
of the championship you do get thatdriver preference with restoring twenty twenty two with
Charlott Clair in Ferrari. But fornow, I think it's just the team
itself lacking in performance department, inthe department of performance, and I think
(23:10):
it's just having a big toll onthe constructor as a whole, and as
if you were, you know,an engineer or an error guy, or
I mean just someone on the frontdesk of Mercedes. Would you feel like
Lewis Hamilton has sort of betrayed youafter you know, you having sort of
given him the opportunity that you did, I mean you was in you Mercedes,
(23:32):
having given him the opportunity that youdid back in twenty thirteen, which
he promptly, you know, tookby the scruff of the neck and made
into eight Constructors Championships. But doyou feel like, would you feel like
you're being let down. No,actually, I mean I don't think.
I didn't think a driver being partof a team is seen as a service.
(23:57):
I think you're a team. Adriver's part of a team, a
constructor, and the team has towork together to deliver. I don't think
if you if you feel as anemployee at Mercedes, if you feel what
was the way you is like letdown or betrayed. Like if you feel
(24:18):
that way, that makes it almostas if being an F one A driver
in F one is a service.You serve your team. Obviously you race
under the team team's name, butit seems more like, oh I do
this and you do that. It'snot it takes away, it takes the
idea of being a team away fromthe sport. So I wouldn't say that's
(24:44):
that's how people would be feeling asemployees of Mercedes. I think the right
thing to think is to look forwardand make the most of the rest of
this year they have with Lewis Hamilton. But I would say that every driver
needs to sort of progress on andI think Lewis Hamilton has made well.
(25:07):
We will never know whether it's theright decision to we get there, but
I think it's a reasonable decision becauseof their performance in recent years we just
spoke about. But I wouldn't saythere's any toxicity or hate towards Lewis inside
the team. I think they're stillgrateful to have the greatest driver of all
time racing racing for them. Butyeah, I'm not quite sure what it
(25:33):
would what I feel like, doyou think? Okay, here's another sort
of question. Hit. If youknow Lewis went to Ferrari, had a
bad stint, bad two years.Let's say, would you take him back
if he was looking for a joband he was interested in sort of returning
to the Mercedes package. Let's saythey're about where they are, you know
(25:55):
right now in terms of group position, would you would you be willing to
sort of humor the idea of takinghim back under the Mercedes Mercedes, back
into the Mercedes family. That's adifficult question. Actually, I think it's
not common, but it's not rarefor teams to be doing that. I
think it's all dependent on different factors. You know, when we get to
(26:19):
the stage you're talking about if Mercedesis a top team, the top a
leading team in the championship, maybethey might go back to Lewis Hamton and
try and try and get him backon the team because they've seen what he
can do and they probably want thedriver like him to be racing for them.
(26:42):
We've seen it before with the likesof Fernando Alumso in two thousand and
seven he's signed for McLaren and thenhe came back in twenty fifteen. I
believe yeah, yeah, obviously maybenot. Yeah, a GVT engine might
(27:04):
not have been the the greatest comeback, but I think it's all in due
time. What will happen to theMercedes team whether they will decide to bring
Lewis Hamilton back if it's the otherIf it's the other extreme and Mercedes just
get worse, then I don't thinkthey'll be looking at Lewis Hamilton. I
(27:26):
think they'll be looking at younger driversor drivers with less experience. But I
think I highly doubt that would happen. I doubt that Mercedes would get to
a position where they're a back markerteam or a blue flag team. So
I think if that were the case, then I think Lewis Hamilton wouldn't be
an option to go to a teamwhich is running p six or seven in
(27:49):
the championship. I think for LowisHamilton to make it a return to Mercedes,
it would have to be a verya very awful time at Ferrari in
a short amount of the end beforeLewis Hamilton gets too old to be driving
n f on or winning championships.No offense to Fernando there, no,
(28:10):
I think, well, I thinkthe point that you were making a couple
of weeks ago is by saying thatFerdie could move to Mercedes himself off the
Lewis Hamilton exits, is that FernandoI think, the like Lewis does have
the potential of winning world championships,certainly still and I think he has that
obviously the racecraft, but I thinkalso the maturity and the and you know,
(28:30):
perhaps the newfound maturity to help him, you know, to guide him
towards making fewer mistakes and making moreof the opportunities he has. But you're
mentioning blue flag teams there, Ithink, onto a driver that has never
seen a blue flag in his lifeapart from when he is passing out the
cars. Maxi Stappen one question,one question about Maxi Stappan this weekend.
(28:55):
No One cares about his win,useless, absolutely useless, and tells us
nothing other than all that we knewalready. My question for you is,
will Max have entered the greatest ofall time debate in Formula one by the
time he retires. By the timehe retires? Wow, I mean,
(29:17):
that's that's a difficult question. Ithink it seems really simple at first,
because a lot of people say,oh, he's done, he's got the
record for the most wins in arow, he's on track to gain the
most amount of wins. But he'snot there yet, you know, I
don't. I don't think well,statistically he's not and we don't know what
(29:42):
will happen. We don't know whatwill happen in the future. Look,
we didn't expect his DNF to happenand for him to for Carlo Science to
win the race, right, andwe didn't expect his P five in Singapore
and Carlo signs to win the raceback then, you know, So the
it will be occasions where where hewon't win, and it might even be
(30:07):
the case where there could be aseason where he's completely out of it and
Red Bull just make a mistake.So I think that really that even more
test max as a driver and putshim more or less to the to the
position of being a grace of alltime debate, that being able to be
(30:27):
talked about in that debate. SoI send your argument there, like you
know, you don't know what's goingto happen, but you know quite a
few of the races that he's lostthe past few years have been through anthought
of his own. They've been throughI through mechanical issues for example Australia two
years ago now and obviously Australia thisyear as well. But that's the point,
(30:48):
you know, you have to havesomething to actually happen to him for
him to Yeah, never underperformed apartfrom Singapore. But you know you can
sort of the same thing about LewisHamilton, right, He's had a couple
down years. You know, hehasn't got a podium so far, He's
got ten points from four races.I don't think that's ever happened, probably
not since his first year at McLaren. Does that call into question him as
(31:14):
a goat? I don't think so. So I don't know what do you
what do you think about that ithas have these past three years where he's
been sort of slightly on a slower, you know, slightly in a call
down that let's say, have theycalled into question his ghost status as well.
That's an interesting point. I'd liketo say. If you look at
(31:36):
the other driver who has talked aboutin this debate, Michael Schumacher, if
you look at his career, Ithink Lewis Hamilton is sort of in the
Mercedes. Yeah, the Michael Schumacher'sMercedes era, you know. I think
he signed it back in twenty toten, I believe, and left in
(31:57):
twenty twelve. And I think thinkfrom now and I think maybe the Ferrari
era for Lewis Hamilton might potentially bethat the equivalent of a Mercedes Michael Schumacher.
You know, I think after twothousand and five or two thousand and
(32:17):
six, I like to say,after his last win, he went on
that decline. Yeah, And Ithink people don't consider that when talking about
the goat debate, you know.So I don't think people would be considering
Louis Hampton's recent performances in terms ofthis debate. I think it's his prime,
(32:38):
his prime and most how do yousay, well, his best performances
his prime and best performances. Ithink that's what is considered in the debate.
Yeah, and I think it's inevitablefor every driver to have that sort
of downward spiral like we saw itwith the Michael Schumacher and who's the same.
(32:59):
We can't see it see it withLewis Sampton. Do you think that
you know, if Lewis turns itaround now and goes to Ferrari has an
absolute blinder, wins the World Championship, does that put the goat debate to
bed forever? That is that isvery interesting as well. Keep you know,
(33:20):
there's an example that I always thinkabout in terms of goats of the
sport, Like you know Muhammad Ali, right, he came back from his
his stint in jail because he didn'twant to fight in Vietnam and came back
and won. You know Tom Bradyright in American football left the Pats,
joined the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, ledthem to a Super Bowl in the in
(33:42):
the COVID stricken year. You know, I think in order to have a
real greatest of all time, youneed to show that you can go through
bad stints. You're not just ridingoff the coattails of your own success basically,
and that you can, you know, put it back and you can,
I guess, prove people people wrong. I think that's what a true
greatest does, in my opinion.What do you think about Banish? Yeah,
(34:07):
I can see where you're coming fromthere. I think it takes more
than more than a period of successto prove that you're the greatest. I
think if Lewis Hamilton does go toBari and win the championship, it will
be amazing, It'll be well,I think it will be one of the
(34:29):
greatest things we'll ever see in Fone. You know, a driver who
has been Ferrari's what number one arrivalin this sort of era in the last
fifteen years, and now we seehim winning with them. That's such a
brilliant turnaround and I think it's it'san event that would definitely alter the goat
(34:59):
debate. Yeah, and I thinkpotentially it could end It could end the
debate if this was to happen.I think I think a combination of that.
And you know, I'm a Ferrarifan, right, but I harbor
(35:21):
you know, I sort of havea level of disdain for Michael Schumacher in
terms of people thinking that he isthe greatest, because you know, something
that I really object to in supportof F one is not being a sportsperson.
And you know, I think,for all that Michael was a great
(35:43):
driver, he was also a ruddycheat. You know. He tried to
run Jackville Nerve out of the Ibelieve it was the nineteen nineteen nine Grand
Prix. I think it. No, it must be ninety seven, wasn't
it, Yeah, ninety seven.So he tried to knock to jack Ville
Nerve out of a championship contention innineteen ninety seven. I think he I
(36:07):
believe it was might have been twentyten or twenty eleven when he cheated his
way to a poor position. Andjust you know, obviously he was dominant
right in the early two thousands,but he couldn't. You know, he
couldn't even though he was given asort of middling car, right, you
(36:28):
know, I think the greatest makesa middling car look like the greatest car.
And I just don't know how howmuch he actually deserves that title.
Sure he has the most or hehad the most wins of all time.
Sure he had the most World championshipsof all time, But to what an
extent to what extent that's due tohis package, the backage that he has,
(36:51):
I'm not sure. And someone likeMax Verstappen, who essentially for you
know, for even the years whereRed Bull was clear number two car,
like just thinking back to his firstRed Bull start Spain twenty sixteen, took
the win right, even though thosetwo marks were knocked out because of that
incident. He made it work right. But I don't know if you can
(37:15):
count Michael Schumacher in that. Obviouslyhe's a category above. I think obviously,
you know, you've got Louis Hamilton, You've got Michael Schumacher, You've
got Eth and Center, You've youknow, you've even got you know,
some drivers from the from the earlyera like one Man Well Fangio, Jack
Browner just in that league above everyoneelse. But I just just in terms
(37:39):
of just in terms of the humanelement of it, I don't know.
I don't know if I would giveMichael that. And so I'm you know,
I'm a ring on the side ofLewis Hamilton, and I think I
think that if Max Ofstappen, canyou know, managed to pull out at
seven in a row or something crazylike that then he's seriously in contention.
(38:02):
Yeah, and with that, andwith that, we're out of time unfortunately
this week. Yes, thank youvery much for listening to everyone Isn't Real.
Join us next time for our ChineseGrowl prepreview preview episode. Thank you
so much for listening to my ramblingsas always, it's been a lovely to
have on the podcas As. Yeah, as a thank you man, Thanks
(38:27):
man. M.
Hello, and welcome back to Fone. Isn't real. I am your
host Ben Wevell, who spent hispast week planning my resignation from the Williams
Financial Department, and I'm joined thisweek by mister v One himself amic for
our groggy eyed recap of the twentytwenty four Japanese Grand Prix. Amish,
(00:35):
We've had a little easter hiatus,but it's been quite a week, hasn't
it. Yeah, it's been agood break. Happy to get back into
F one. As always, thisweekend has been somewhat eventful, but at
the same time it has been abit lacking in some departments, especially for
a Japanese Grand Prix. But yeah, I think there's quite a lot to
(00:58):
a decent amount to dig deep intothis weekend. For sure, there is,
For sure there is. Let's onthe subject of this weekend, let's
get down to business. Let's getinto it. And first off, unfortunately,
as I alluded to in the intro, we are talking about Williams Racing,
who may be in a bit ofa spot of bother at the moment.
(01:21):
We saw Logan's sergeant go off atthe Dunlop Curve in FP one obviously
a driver era there he got onthe grass. It was a bit damp,
somewhat understandable, but still a mistake, huge amount of damage and probably
was a big setback for Williams thisweekend. And then another mistake Ricardo album
(01:44):
tangling at turn three first off image. Before we get into what this could
mean for Williams, is this anopening lap incident or was there a huge
driver era that led to this hugecrash? Well, in terms of the
uh Logan Sergeant event in Ft one, I think that might be. I
(02:06):
think that's that's its fault. Youknow, if you look at if you
look at the replays, he puthis wheel in the grass and then it's
inevitable that a crash is going tohappen, especially a track like Suzukah.
For Alex that one, I'd liketo say, that's just a racing incident.
You know, Turn one into actsAzukah is really difficult for lap one,
(02:28):
you know, so taking it takingit like that, it's not It's
not good news for Williams. Youknow this. The last two weekends have
been quite disappointing and damaging to theirfinance and research and development because it's been
two weekends where they've had a tonof DNFs and a ton of crashes,
(02:49):
which has really set them back,and it's quite important. Yeah, loads
of dns crush, bad publicity.Just generally the vibe around Williams is really
slipping from their perception last year,where you know you have this grassroots team
of course, who have been throughalmost every stage of Formula One team can
(03:12):
be in and they really seemed backon the up into maybe the lower midfield.
But now we've sort of seen themthis season zero points so far on
the board. What is Williams's greatestconcern at this point in the season.
I'm going to be brutal and sayit's Logan Sergeant. I don't like putting
(03:36):
it all on one driver, butwhen it comes to a situation like this,
we've seen it before with Nicholas theTIFI and then other teams as well,
not to mention Lance Stroll which isstill going, but I think Logan
Sergeant is definitely the liability here inthe team. Even though the Williams doesn't
(04:00):
have a single point on the boardyet, I think looking at race results
past p ten, Alex album isdefinitely carrying the team, even though it
has been a rough couple of weeksof the team, and Alex Alban himself.
I think he's definitely proven that hecan he can perform. So that's
(04:24):
why I'm doing less blame on himand more blame on Logan Sergeant. It's
the sad truth, but I thinkthat's that's how I feel about this whole
situation. Is Logan Sergeant's position injeopardy? Do you think not just for
next season, but for possibly midseason? How likely is it do you
think that he's going to make ituntil the United States Corn Prix. I
(04:47):
think it's unlikely. You know,then, I think I'm quite confused about
what Williams were doing in between theend of last year and the beginning of
this year, because there was somedoubts about Logan Sergeant at the end of
last year. They signed him andimmediately he's just been not performing as to
(05:09):
what they expected him to be.And I guess you could say it's a
mistake and they just wanted to havethat a little extra hope with Sergeant.
But at the same time, inF one, you can't afford to take
these risks when your probability is quitelow. Given a poor track record.
No, I think I'm sort ofdisappointed by the Williams team for doing this.
(05:31):
I think they could have opened upthe seat into someone a bit more
promising or with a bit more potential. So yeah, I think they're just
in the mud at the moment.Do you think Williams needs You know,
obviously we saw with Hass for example, switching over to sort of that side
of things, right, We sawwith Hass they were a reliant for a
(05:53):
very long time post the Roman incidentof twenty twenty on drivers who are in,
you know, an influx of moneyand hopefully better performances. Do you
think Williams is reliant on the sortof source that Logan Sergeant is, as
you know, someone who could breakthem into the ever expanding American market in
(06:17):
formula one? Do you think they'rereliant on that? And that's possibly why
he's been given a second chance.And what do you think it would take
to break that reliance, because ofcourse, you know, we saw with
Nicholas Latifi three years of poor performancesand that was his lot. But Logan
Sergeant has only had a few yearsin order to prove himself. Some could
(06:40):
argue that maybe with more you know, refining he could become a decent driver.
Do you think Williams are ever goingto or how long do you think
it will be until Williams gives upthe ghost on yet another failed page Driver.
Well, I mean, I thinkrecently F One has definitely been trying
to get in more publicity for America. We've seen what three races last year
(07:06):
in this year in the United States, where I think for a fan perspective,
it should be more global and lessAmericanized. I think that's what fans
want. I'm not sure that's thereason why Logan Sergeant still has a seat.
I think there is a lot ofpublicity done by F One Corporation themselves
(07:29):
instead of the teams. And Ithink the reason I'm not quite sure the
reason why Williams have decided to keepLogan Sergeant. I think it's because they
just want to have that. Ithink they just have some sort of hope
with him. But if you butit looks like they haven't learn from their
lesson with the likes of Nicholas theTV, which has brought me that confusion
(07:53):
I was talking about before, Ben, But yeah, I think that's and
that's what what's going on now,and in terms of the future for Logan
Sergeant's contract, if he doesn't performas well as Alex Album, I think
he will be losing his seat atthe end of this year minimum. I
(08:18):
think I'm not sure whether he canbe pulled out of a seat according to
the contract. We've seen that within the Redwell family, but I'm not
quite sure how it works in Williams. And I'm not really sure who would
replace him at the moment if thatwas a possibility, Yeah, I think
it would be a difficult one.I don't think, you know, I
sort of I floated the idea ofZay Maloney last time we last time we
(08:43):
talked possibly for a seat in FormulaOne. I don't know if anybody inn
F two right now, or maybeother than Taylor Porchair, really can take
up the mantle of Formula one driver. I don't know if they're mature enough,
both in mentality and in driving style. But obviously Logan Sergeant is creating
more problems than he's solving at Williams. But on the other side of things,
(09:07):
you know you have Alex Albon.He's been a bit of a tough
nut to crack so far. Thisyear. I mean two P eleven's for
sure, but one of those wasoff the back of a Pierre Gasley penalty
that per eleven in Australia. Sohe's been close to or near enough to
the points. But you know,last year, one of the things that
really impressed me with Alex and iswhy I predicted around the start of the
(09:31):
season that he could be moving upinto the Mercedes scene, is that,
you know, he just has thisability to grasp opportunities that so many other
F one drivers don't take, andso far he's sort of been lacking in
that front. What do you thinkis that's changed for him, if anything,
(09:52):
and why has there been such adisparity between his performances this year and
his confidence in the FW forty fiveof last year. Well, I think
as our performance last year, itwas above and beyond. It was definitely
(10:13):
carrying the Williams team for the machinerythat he was given. I think he
definitely outperformed his expectations and he showedother teams what he was capable of.
I think when we were talking aboutin the last episode one of the most
recent episodes about twenty twenty five predictions, I think I put Alex Albourne in
(10:35):
one of the top teams because teamsshould be looking at him based on his
twenty twenty three seasons. As ofthis year, I think I'm not going
to say I'm disappointed with his performance. I'm going to blame it on being
(10:56):
unlucky because of certain incidents. Youcan say that his crashes or his crash
incident has been could have been hisfault. But at the same time,
there have been numerous occasions this earlystage of the season where Alex album has
the ability to score points, buthe's being held back by the machinery that
(11:20):
he's been put in. I thinkthis Williams car isn't as good this year
than it is last year. I'mnot quite sure why. I think maybe
because all of the other teams aroundthat back marker zone has sort of improved
a bit more over the winter.I really like to see the album succeeed
this year, especially coming off theback of last year, and I really
(11:45):
hope that Williams do find some researchand development over the next few races and
they can come back fighting strong,stronger than they were last year. Yeah,
they've been in a bit of adownward spiral I think these past few
years, oh sorry, just thestart of this year, where it's sort
of gone from you know, decentsort of moving forwards, and I think
(12:05):
they might have taken a step backhere and imprompt you step back, and
I think that's the last thing thatWilliams need really, just to have both
of their drivers kind of you know, I think Logan Sergeant definitely disappointing,
needless to say. But you know, Alex album sort of now on the
cusp of disappointing zero points from fourraces. It's a difficult one to It's
(12:31):
a difficult one to again put blameon Alex because he's brought Williams so much
success. I mean comparative success thatis certainly not success compared to the days
of old, but comparative success nonetheless, and so you know, it's difficult
to put it all on him.But I think maybe you know, maybe
a two year contract or maybe amulti year contractors in a similar way to
(12:58):
you know, some other drivers onon the grid, like battery prosats for
example, perhaps like a multi yearcontract isn't particularly good for him because now
it puts him in a sort ofsense of security that he you know has
previously not been able to afford,and maybe that's made him slightly more,
slightly less likely to put his footon the gas and try as hard as
(13:22):
he can every single Grand Prix.Not to say that Alex isn't trying hard,
but maybe he's been given, youknow, the opportunity to relax a
bit because he knows he's comfortable inthat Williams seat, and perhaps that means
that his performances are sort of followinga similar pattern. But I don't think
it's right to assume in that thatthat is always necessarily the case. But
(13:43):
switching over to somebody who I dothink has got a bit too secure for
his own good, Daniel Ricardo,the other driver in that incident that ripped
apart the turn three tire barrier ina pretty dramatic fashion. He's really disappointed
this season in my in my books, I think he's just been off the
(14:03):
pace compared to Uki. I thinkhe's been certainly not what red Bull,
certainly not what the RB's formerly AlfaTaria were expecting, and how how how
much do you think his seat isalso perhaps in jeopardy in the same way
(14:24):
that his teammate Nick Devrees's was lastyear, and what do you think Daniel
needs to do in order to possiblyregain some hope at the RB's racing balls
using cash app et cetera, etcetera. Well, I think this is
a very interesting topic. I thinkDaniel Ricardo is definitely a love driver in
(14:46):
this sport of F one, butin recent years his performance has been on
a decline. I'd like to saythere's a reason he didn't have a seat
for the beginning of twenty twenty three, and unfortunately he didn't prove the grid
wrong in the sense that he didn'tcome back stronger than ever, performing really
(15:07):
well and scoring points. He hasn'tgot a single point this season, and
I know well Alex the album hasn'tbut compared to his teammate, Daniel Ricardo
is sort of falling behind. Yeah, Uk Snoda has has points this season,
(15:30):
yet Daniel Ricardo doesn't. And I'dlike to say with confidence that Daniel
Ricardo is on his last last strawat the moment in terms of being in
F one for good. I thinkhe's not necessarily an old driver, but
he's at the age where he wouldn'tbe retiring, but he would be finding
(15:52):
the elsewhere in a different category ofsport. Yeah, I think, to
put it bluntly in Layman's terms,that is, I think he's falling off.
You know, he had the biggesthigh of his career, I think,
probably in terms of performance compared toCarr in twenty twenty with Renner.
(16:15):
I think that was his peak probablywhere he was performing, you know,
out of his socks obviously in thatshortened season, but you know, he
was really putting in a great shiftin the COVID restricted year. But yeah,
it's been downhill, considerably downhill sincethat point, and I think now
(16:37):
he's sort of staying in the sportat the moment purely off of sort of
the name and the acclaim that he'smanaged to and the good favor that he's
managed to gain so far. Butyeah, it is not looking good for
Daniel at the moment. I thinkhe could definitely be without a seat sometime
(16:59):
soon. Maybe they'll give them theyear, but yeah, I worry for
him for sure. But switching itup, moving on to the I guess
midpack nearer the Helm of the Grid, we saw strategy really come into play
for one of the first times reallythis season. It was it was a
big important factor. How surprised wereyou that Ferrari were the ones getting things
(17:22):
right? It's a it's a funnyit's a funny topic. Ben. I
mean, I'm I'm glad that theydid get it right. It's a shame
that it came where they're not necessarilyfighting. Actually, I think maybe they
could be fighting for for the championshiplater on in the season based off how
(17:45):
things have gone so far. ButI'm actually really happy to see bar doing
doing well and performing to their expectations. Historically, you know, everyone sees
Forrari the greatest teamers of all time. Mike Sebastin Better said, everyone is
a Ferrari fan, which basically meansFerrari have a lot of pressure on their
(18:10):
shoulders. And I think this hasbeen the first weekend in years where they
didn't nail it completely because they didn'tgather race win, But in terms of
they did the best they could andthis was the best possible result that they
could have had given the conditions andgiven you know, how how could their
car is this weekend? Yeah,but yeah, I think Ferrari, you
(18:33):
know, I wouldn't say that thisis sort of signifies that they're moving on
to bigger and brighter things in termsof strategy. But yeah, it's certainly
a step in the right direction.But moving on to sort of the other
side of the strategy strategy spectrum thisweekend, Lewis Hamilton probably got dealt the
worst hand out of the top youknow, six or seven starters. He
(18:59):
started in seven, ended up ninth, fell behind his teammate George and frankly
he's had a pretty disappointing year aswell, certainly compared to Lewising's extremely high
standards, with only ten points fromfour races, I mean, compared to
George's twenty four, that's pretty Imean, that's certainly a dip compared to
(19:19):
how he's been doing as of late, you know, in recent years,
where even though he's been in thatMercedes, been wrecking in a couple of
podiums here and there. To whatextent is this possibly because of you know,
having some kind of lethargy around havingto perform in a similar way to
perhaps Alex album because he's locked infor that Ferrari scene next year, or
(19:42):
maybe maybe it's the other way aroundand we've got Mercedes not giving him the
best opportunities that they can for himto succeed because they know that he doesn't
need to be developed anymore and thathis car is basically you know, they
want to focus all their efforts onGeorge's car because they know George's their legacy.
Now, Kamish, where has thisdrop off come from or originated from?
(20:03):
Do you think I think it mightbe the case with Mercedes not giving
Lewis the full opportunity. It's notcompletely obvious who the favorite driver is,
and like you said, Lewis havingthat seat for twenty twenty five at Ferrari,
(20:26):
and that could potentially give Mercedes theincentive not to not to give him
They're all it does. It's notmoral, I don't think. I think
even while you're in the team,you should be treated equally or given equal
opportunities. Right. I'm not surewhat the case is, but I definitely
(20:48):
have seen a drop in Lewis Hamilton'sperformance. He seems like the same the
same driver with the same personality characterin a car out the car since is
it in since twenty twenty one,I think he's been consistent in the Maybe
it's the media, but on driverradios it seems like he's got that spirit
(21:14):
still and he definitely is capable ofwinning. But Mercedes just aren't performing on
their end. I feel I thinkthat they're not providing both George and Lewis
with a competitive car. It's evenif you look at Mercedes as a constructor
coming away from drivers and more ofa constructor, their customer teams for their
(21:37):
engines are performing substantially better than theyare as the as the works company.
As the works constructor. You knowMcLaren, Oscaryastri and Landon Norris a P
five and six in the in theDriver's Championship, they're well above Mercedes at
the moment. And I think there'sa lot of hermoil going on in the
(22:00):
Mercedes team. And I don't thinkLewis moving to Ferrari is helping them because
they're star driver, the driver who'ssort of made that or who has made
their entire successes as a team inF one, he's leaving. Yeah,
So I don't really think that theywould do anything to jeopardize that. I
(22:22):
don't think they would be thinking,oh, Louis Hamilton's going now, we
won't help him out. That's notthe case, because they are not going
to say that nothing without Lewis Hamilton. I'm just going to say he is
a primary cause of their success.And I'm not sure that's I don't think
that's how teams work necessarily in Fone. I think there should there still
(22:44):
is that respect and them still equaltreatment. Obviously in certain cases in terms
of the championship you do get thatdriver preference with restoring twenty twenty two with
Charlott Clair in Ferrari. But fornow, I think it's just the team
itself lacking in performance department, inthe department of performance, and I think
(23:10):
it's just having a big toll onthe constructor as a whole, and as
if you were, you know,an engineer or an error guy, or
I mean just someone on the frontdesk of Mercedes. Would you feel like
Lewis Hamilton has sort of betrayed youafter you know, you having sort of
given him the opportunity that you did, I mean you was in you Mercedes,
(23:32):
having given him the opportunity that youdid back in twenty thirteen, which
he promptly, you know, tookby the scruff of the neck and made
into eight Constructors Championships. But doyou feel like, would you feel like
you're being let down. No,actually, I mean I don't think.
I didn't think a driver being partof a team is seen as a service.
(23:57):
I think you're a team. Adriver's part of a team, a
constructor, and the team has towork together to deliver. I don't think
if you if you feel as anemployee at Mercedes, if you feel what
was the way you is like letdown or betrayed. Like if you feel
(24:18):
that way, that makes it almostas if being an F one A driver
in F one is a service.You serve your team. Obviously you race
under the team team's name, butit seems more like, oh I do
this and you do that. It'snot it takes away, it takes the
idea of being a team away fromthe sport. So I wouldn't say that's
(24:44):
that's how people would be feeling asemployees of Mercedes. I think the right
thing to think is to look forwardand make the most of the rest of
this year they have with Lewis Hamilton. But I would say that every driver
needs to sort of progress on andI think Lewis Hamilton has made well.
(25:07):
We will never know whether it's theright decision to we get there, but
I think it's a reasonable decision becauseof their performance in recent years we just
spoke about. But I wouldn't saythere's any toxicity or hate towards Lewis inside
the team. I think they're stillgrateful to have the greatest driver of all
time racing racing for them. Butyeah, I'm not quite sure what it
(25:33):
would what I feel like, doyou think? Okay, here's another sort
of question. Hit. If youknow Lewis went to Ferrari, had a
bad stint, bad two years.Let's say, would you take him back
if he was looking for a joband he was interested in sort of returning
to the Mercedes package. Let's saythey're about where they are, you know
(25:55):
right now in terms of group position, would you would you be willing to
sort of humor the idea of takinghim back under the Mercedes Mercedes, back
into the Mercedes family. That's adifficult question. Actually, I think it's
not common, but it's not rarefor teams to be doing that. I
think it's all dependent on different factors. You know, when we get to
(26:19):
the stage you're talking about if Mercedesis a top team, the top a
leading team in the championship, maybethey might go back to Lewis Hamton and
try and try and get him backon the team because they've seen what he
can do and they probably want thedriver like him to be racing for them.
(26:42):
We've seen it before with the likesof Fernando Alumso in two thousand and
seven he's signed for McLaren and thenhe came back in twenty fifteen. I
believe yeah, yeah, obviously maybenot. Yeah, a GVT engine might
(27:04):
not have been the the greatest comeback, but I think it's all in due
time. What will happen to theMercedes team whether they will decide to bring
Lewis Hamilton back if it's the otherIf it's the other extreme and Mercedes just
get worse, then I don't thinkthey'll be looking at Lewis Hamilton. I
(27:26):
think they'll be looking at younger driversor drivers with less experience. But I
think I highly doubt that would happen. I doubt that Mercedes would get to
a position where they're a back markerteam or a blue flag team. So
I think if that were the case, then I think Lewis Hamilton wouldn't be
an option to go to a teamwhich is running p six or seven in
(27:49):
the championship. I think for LowisHamilton to make it a return to Mercedes,
it would have to be a verya very awful time at Ferrari in
a short amount of the end beforeLewis Hamilton gets too old to be driving
n f on or winning championships.No offense to Fernando there, no,
(28:10):
I think, well, I thinkthe point that you were making a couple
of weeks ago is by saying thatFerdie could move to Mercedes himself off the
Lewis Hamilton exits, is that FernandoI think, the like Lewis does have
the potential of winning world championships,certainly still and I think he has that
obviously the racecraft, but I thinkalso the maturity and the and you know,
(28:30):
perhaps the newfound maturity to help him, you know, to guide him
towards making fewer mistakes and making moreof the opportunities he has. But you're
mentioning blue flag teams there, Ithink, onto a driver that has never
seen a blue flag in his lifeapart from when he is passing out the
cars. Maxi Stappen one question,one question about Maxi Stappan this weekend.
(28:55):
No One cares about his win,useless, absolutely useless, and tells us
nothing other than all that we knewalready. My question for you is,
will Max have entered the greatest ofall time debate in Formula one by the
time he retires. By the timehe retires? Wow, I mean,
(29:17):
that's that's a difficult question. Ithink it seems really simple at first,
because a lot of people say,oh, he's done, he's got the
record for the most wins in arow, he's on track to gain the
most amount of wins. But he'snot there yet, you know, I
don't. I don't think well,statistically he's not and we don't know what
(29:42):
will happen. We don't know whatwill happen in the future. Look,
we didn't expect his DNF to happenand for him to for Carlo Science to
win the race, right, andwe didn't expect his P five in Singapore
and Carlo signs to win the raceback then, you know, So the
it will be occasions where where hewon't win, and it might even be
(30:07):
the case where there could be aseason where he's completely out of it and
Red Bull just make a mistake.So I think that really that even more
test max as a driver and putshim more or less to the to the
position of being a grace of alltime debate, that being able to be
(30:27):
talked about in that debate. SoI send your argument there, like you
know, you don't know what's goingto happen, but you know quite a
few of the races that he's lostthe past few years have been through anthought
of his own. They've been throughI through mechanical issues for example Australia two
years ago now and obviously Australia thisyear as well. But that's the point,
(30:48):
you know, you have to havesomething to actually happen to him for
him to Yeah, never underperformed apartfrom Singapore. But you know you can
sort of the same thing about LewisHamilton, right, He's had a couple
down years. You know, hehasn't got a podium so far, He's
got ten points from four races.I don't think that's ever happened, probably
not since his first year at McLaren. Does that call into question him as
(31:14):
a goat? I don't think so. So I don't know what do you
what do you think about that ithas have these past three years where he's
been sort of slightly on a slower, you know, slightly in a call
down that let's say, have theycalled into question his ghost status as well.
That's an interesting point. I'd liketo say. If you look at
(31:36):
the other driver who has talked aboutin this debate, Michael Schumacher, if
you look at his career, Ithink Lewis Hamilton is sort of in the
Mercedes. Yeah, the Michael Schumacher'sMercedes era, you know. I think
he signed it back in twenty toten, I believe, and left in
(31:57):
twenty twelve. And I think thinkfrom now and I think maybe the Ferrari
era for Lewis Hamilton might potentially bethat the equivalent of a Mercedes Michael Schumacher.
You know, I think after twothousand and five or two thousand and
(32:17):
six, I like to say,after his last win, he went on
that decline. Yeah, And Ithink people don't consider that when talking about
the goat debate, you know.So I don't think people would be considering
Louis Hampton's recent performances in terms ofthis debate. I think it's his prime,
(32:38):
his prime and most how do yousay, well, his best performances
his prime and best performances. Ithink that's what is considered in the debate.
Yeah, and I think it's inevitablefor every driver to have that sort
of downward spiral like we saw itwith the Michael Schumacher and who's the same.
(32:59):
We can't see it see it withLewis Sampton. Do you think that
you know, if Lewis turns itaround now and goes to Ferrari has an
absolute blinder, wins the World Championship, does that put the goat debate to
bed forever? That is that isvery interesting as well. Keep you know,
(33:20):
there's an example that I always thinkabout in terms of goats of the
sport, Like you know Muhammad Ali, right, he came back from his
his stint in jail because he didn'twant to fight in Vietnam and came back
and won. You know Tom Bradyright in American football left the Pats,
joined the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, ledthem to a Super Bowl in the in
(33:42):
the COVID stricken year. You know, I think in order to have a
real greatest of all time, youneed to show that you can go through
bad stints. You're not just ridingoff the coattails of your own success basically,
and that you can, you know, put it back and you can,
I guess, prove people people wrong. I think that's what a true
greatest does, in my opinion.What do you think about Banish? Yeah,
(34:07):
I can see where you're coming fromthere. I think it takes more
than more than a period of successto prove that you're the greatest. I
think if Lewis Hamilton does go toBari and win the championship, it will
be amazing, It'll be well,I think it will be one of the
(34:29):
greatest things we'll ever see in Fone. You know, a driver who
has been Ferrari's what number one arrivalin this sort of era in the last
fifteen years, and now we seehim winning with them. That's such a
brilliant turnaround and I think it's it'san event that would definitely alter the goat
(34:59):
debate. Yeah, and I thinkpotentially it could end It could end the
debate if this was to happen.I think I think a combination of that.
And you know, I'm a Ferrarifan, right, but I harbor
(35:21):
you know, I sort of havea level of disdain for Michael Schumacher in
terms of people thinking that he isthe greatest, because you know, something
that I really object to in supportof F one is not being a sportsperson.
And you know, I think,for all that Michael was a great
(35:43):
driver, he was also a ruddycheat. You know. He tried to
run Jackville Nerve out of the Ibelieve it was the nineteen nineteen nine Grand
Prix. I think it. No, it must be ninety seven, wasn't
it, Yeah, ninety seven.So he tried to knock to jack Ville
Nerve out of a championship contention innineteen ninety seven. I think he I
(36:07):
believe it was might have been twentyten or twenty eleven when he cheated his
way to a poor position. Andjust you know, obviously he was dominant
right in the early two thousands,but he couldn't. You know, he
couldn't even though he was given asort of middling car, right, you
(36:28):
know, I think the greatest makesa middling car look like the greatest car.
And I just don't know how howmuch he actually deserves that title.
Sure he has the most or hehad the most wins of all time.
Sure he had the most World championshipsof all time, But to what an
extent to what extent that's due tohis package, the backage that he has,
(36:51):
I'm not sure. And someone likeMax Verstappen, who essentially for you
know, for even the years whereRed Bull was clear number two car,
like just thinking back to his firstRed Bull start Spain twenty sixteen, took
the win right, even though thosetwo marks were knocked out because of that
incident. He made it work right. But I don't know if you can
(37:15):
count Michael Schumacher in that. Obviouslyhe's a category above. I think obviously,
you know, you've got Louis Hamilton, You've got Michael Schumacher, You've
got Eth and Center, You've youknow, you've even got you know,
some drivers from the from the earlyera like one Man Well Fangio, Jack
Browner just in that league above everyoneelse. But I just just in terms
(37:39):
of just in terms of the humanelement of it, I don't know.
I don't know if I would giveMichael that. And so I'm you know,
I'm a ring on the side ofLewis Hamilton, and I think I
think that if Max Ofstappen, canyou know, managed to pull out at
seven in a row or something crazylike that then he's seriously in contention.
(38:02):
Yeah, and with that, andwith that, we're out of time unfortunately
this week. Yes, thank youvery much for listening to everyone Isn't Real.
Join us next time for our ChineseGrowl prepreview preview episode. Thank you
so much for listening to my ramblingsas always, it's been a lovely to
have on the podcas As. Yeah, as a thank you man, Thanks
(38:27):
man. M.
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