THE 2024 F1 Summer Recap

We are back with a feature-film length episode, discussing everything F1, in the leadup to Autumn. This is F1 Isn't Real's magnum opus. See you at Zandvoort. 

Max or Me? --> 6:42
Red Bullaw Breakers --> 13:37 
Aston Martin Floundering --> 21:58
Joke Team (Kick Sauber) --> 28:25
Yuki to RB? --> 33:30
Red Bull 2nd Seat Mayhem --> 39:00
Mercedes' Sustainable Success? --> 45:15
Ben FLAMES Lando Norris --> 54:45 
Is Albon good enough? --> 1:03:25

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Hello and welcome back to F one. Isn't real. We
are back. Zam's done, school done. F one summer recap,
we got it. Let's go, I mess and I am
about to break down the twenty twenty four season so
far in the grand the term of F one isn't real.

(00:36):
For the summer months. There's been a lot of stuff
going on in Formula one outside of Formula one, but
let's just strip that all away, strip it all back,
let's talk business. It's time for a recap, a mesh.
How's your sommer been so far?

Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm good, Ben, thank you very much for having me again. Yeah,
I'm very looking forward to break down what's been going
on for the last few races. It's been a while
and good to have a grand reopening of every one
is reel.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
It is good. We're getting back into it. We're getting
back into the rip and getting back into the groove.
There's been quite a few things, I think for us
to keep us occupied, but Formula one has the habit
of drawing us back in for sure, and back we are.
We are back as a regular fixture on Monday. Looking

(01:26):
forward to the season or the end of the season
to come and then the twenty twenty five season to begin.
But for now, we've got to take some you know,
you know what they say, right to look forwards or
to learn, one has to look back at the history,
be that short term or long term. Right now, we're
gonna have a look at some of the short term

(01:46):
history of Formula one, looking at the last few races
in the lead up to the summer months, looking at
the silly season. And let's start at a very basic level.
Give me, like as zero to ten rating of the
season so far in terms of like seasons full time.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
Hm hmm. I'm gonna go with, well, from the from
the summer of.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
The season for so far, let's just say season so far,
like just compared to if the season ended today, then,
like where would you put it?

Speaker 2 (02:26):
Well, oh, what would I rate this season? I rate it.
I rate it so far a solid A out of ten.
I'm because.

Speaker 1 (02:39):
A five, A seven to five, seven point five.

Speaker 2 (02:41):
Yeah, okay, okay, that's interesting. I mean, I'm really impressed
with the season so far. You know, I think there's
been a lot that's going on. I think the closest
season we've had to the twenty twenty four season would
be twenty twelve. You know, I think we've got this

(03:02):
is the most amount of race winners we've had this
early on in the season since since then. I think
that's what's made the season so good, regardless of what's
actually happened in the races, if you just look at
the results purely on paper, it's pretty I think it's
pretty cool how we've got such a variety older drivers

(03:27):
coming back, like Lewis Hamilton to the top step of
the podium, things like that, and first win for Landinois
and oscarby Astri that's brilliant, you know. I think that's
what we've wanted to see for a while. I remember, actually,
if we go back a few episodes, what did you say,
I think we after Max's first win or so you said.

(03:47):
You asked me, is this going to be a boring
season like twenty twenty three? And I said, no, I
knew it was going to come because I just, I
don't know, I just preempted it. I guess it was. Yeah,
it's been a good season so far and looking forward
to the next half.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
Call me a grinch, right, but like I feel like
we're looking at this season through Max for staff and
tinted glasses, you know what I mean. So we've suffered
under the regime for a while. Now I feel like,
you know, look at the first five races of the season,
You've got Max win, Max win, Science win, Max win,
Max win. Right, so you know, for sure, right, the

(04:25):
latter half has been far more competitive, but we've got
a seventy eight point gap between first and second. Right, still,
we've got that kind of crazy you know, like unscalable mountain.
I think what it is is this season's just been
more funny than recent memory because Max of Stappen has

(04:45):
been getting a little bit annoyed. There's been a bit
of argibardy between Piastree and Norris, and the only reason
why we're talking about it in a better light is
because it happens to be happening at the very front
of the racing. I agree that this season's probably been
the best since twenty twenty one so far, but you know,
the Stappens still, like, in terms of all time, I

(05:07):
think he's pretty dominant. He's been pretty dominant this season,
not in the same way as he has been, but still,
I mean, I think Lewis Hamilton would take a season
like this nowadays. I think Fernando Lonzo would take a
season like this nowadays. If said Betta was still racing,
he would probably be pretty pleased with the season. Nowadays,
I think it's just Max with Stapping himself. He's got
this drive this, He's got this motivation where nothing other

(05:32):
than winning is ever satisfactory. I see. I was gonna
get to this later. But on the subject of Max
for Stappen and have some inadequacies with his character, let's
play a little bit around of Max or me. So
Max and Stephen's had some very questionable moments on the
on the team radio so far. This yeah, and I'd

(05:55):
love it if you could. I'm going to read through
this his exclamation listen, and I'd like you to guess
whether or not I have written down these exclamations. Max
wist happened in the heat of the moment, and the
heat of the racing has produced these pieces of poetry.

(06:15):
For sure. The balance is fun. What's that me?

Speaker 2 (06:21):
Or was that? Max? This is really testing my f
one radio knowledge. I think as much as your accent
is perfect, I'm gonna have to say it's Max s happen.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
You are absolutely you are false that was me.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I really made that up that I can. I can
see Max Staffen saying that though.

Speaker 1 (06:48):
I made that up completely, I am. I'm okay, I'll
be fairty. I'm drawing off of Hungarian Team Radio. So
team Radio, I'm hungry.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
And that was not okay?

Speaker 1 (06:59):
Right A number two?

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Next one?

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Yeah, the thing just doesn't turn. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (07:09):
What was that? Max?

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Was that? Benjamins as your grown webel.

Speaker 2 (07:15):
Oh, I get can I get a repeat over that place?

Speaker 1 (07:20):
The thing just doesn't find turn. It's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (07:27):
If that's coming from Hungary, I think that. I think
that's also Max fist happened.

Speaker 1 (07:34):
You're correct, you're one for two. You're one for two,
not so bad? So far right, number Let's go for three?

Speaker 2 (07:41):
Right?

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Why? Mode nine? It's it's is that Max for stupping?

Speaker 2 (07:49):
I don't remember that. I don't remember that coming up.
I don't remember Mode nine. Redbell don't seem to be
going down that deep into Mode nine. That seems more
of a Ferri Petree with Van a B all the
way to z mm hmm. I'm gonna say, is that
ben Enzo.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
You'd be absolutely wrong once again, that is what he
was complaining about Mode nine on the radio and Max
that was hungry. This is from Hungary.

Speaker 2 (08:22):
All of these are from Hungary. Wow, all the.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Mode nine he did not like his Mode nines. Okay,
how about there's another one. I've got three more? Hire right,
fucking overcut cuts? Again?

Speaker 2 (08:39):
Was that is that from? Is that from Hungary? Or
I think that was the overcut? What happened? I love
the red ball overcut? I'm so confused. Overcut in Hungary.

(09:02):
I'm not sure. I think that was no. I think
I think that'd be you, but that.

Speaker 1 (09:07):
Would be me. You're right they did because they didn't
undercut the leaders.

Speaker 2 (09:11):
The leaders don't usually.

Speaker 3 (09:12):
Yeah, they hit the undercart and on that occasion, that
was me. Insert some some flavor. There's some color, that's cool,
that's cool, right, Okay.

Speaker 1 (09:24):
One you gave me this ship strategy.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
I remember that. That was like coaponic. That's definitely maxis
happened on the lines. I'm not sure how accurate it is, but.

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Is that maxis happened, that's maxist happened, that's Max staff.
They gave a subpar, a suboptimal strategy, and he voiced
his opinion loudly. Final one for today, I'm.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
I'm gonna have to say that's that's the voice of
Benn's level.

Speaker 1 (10:00):
Voice of reason, as they like to say, the voice of.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
It was me.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
You did pretty well for four for six. That's a
decent that's a decent one. That's pretty good.

Speaker 2 (10:14):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (10:15):
Next time. Next time we'll explore more of Max's color vocabulary.
But for now, let's move on to that. Let's move
on to listen. This is a serious podcast. We engage
in serious, serious concepts here, like swearing and team radio.
That's definitely one of them. But moving on, moving, moving
swiftly forwards, maintaining our reputation, Let's let's finally actually get

(10:40):
on to some some red bull, some red bull talk.
For Stappen, as we've talked about at the top of
the show, he's a bit mortal this season, and it's
seventy eight points clear of Norris. He's one half of
the races. But it just doesn't feel the same. It
just doesn't. He doesn't give that same he doesn't have

(11:02):
that same satisfaction. I do you remember I recall twenty
twenty two, twenty twenty three, as he was winning the
World Championships, this man sounded bored, He sounded deflated, He
sounded like it was just another day at the office.
But I haven't heard Max so, you know, emotional perhaps
since Okhonson in careering careering away in the Brazilian Grand

(11:26):
Prix many years ago. But he's starting to get some
you know, fight back in do you think he's taken
the championship? First off?

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Oh, but once. It's actually difficult to stay with Max
Sacken's abilities. The last two years we've been well, we've
been presented with some would argue a mass class and
someone would argue it's the luck of having a good car.
But nevertheless, Max Stapan has put the results on the table.

(11:58):
But once this season, and there's been multiple multiple winners
other than Red Bull and Max has happened, so anything
could happen. I guess I'm not I'm not a fortune teller, unfortunately,
and I can't really tell you who's going to win and.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
What do I pay for fortune?

Speaker 2 (12:21):
Okay, okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna if I have to
give a discreet final answer, I'm going to say he
will win the championship, but nowhere near how easily he
did in the past. That's my final answer, But I
would like to ask you something, Ben, what do you
think of the of Red Bulls illegal breaking system. Have

(12:46):
you heard about the secret breaking trip which was legal?

Speaker 1 (12:51):
Tell the listeners talk them through this illegal breaking issue.
Tell me, well, I.

Speaker 2 (12:58):
Think if we go we pick a stroll down memory lane,
then we go back to the beginning of the season,
the first non Red Bull win Carlo Science. The reason
some way say that Carlos won that race is because
of the DNF for match Stappens and if we look,

(13:18):
if we delve deeper into that, I think that was
caused by a break coming on fire and not entirely
sure what the main cause to that was, but I
think the f i A has definitely been researching, not researching,

(13:39):
but been on the backs of Red Bull along their
along their breaking system, and there's a lot of pressure
on them at the moment, and I think that's caused
a lot of struggles to the team and just to
stay legal, they've had to make some cutbacks on performance
and that's probably why we're seeing a sort of a

(14:01):
lack of performance compared to last year with the Redbourne
Max Stappen. We've got how many different winners, seven six
different winners and all from.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
Non science pastre Hamilton and Russell.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, that's yeah, So we've got quite a few different
winners and I think that's all. It's all come recently.
Max Stappen hasn't won a race since June, and I
think this illegal breaking system, I think it needs to
be looked at a bit more in the paddock. Maybe
when we get back, we'll hit we'll get we'll get

(14:41):
a nice insight from Ted Kravitz on sky Sports when
we go back the Dutch Grand Prix. But I just
wanted to get your opinion on it as well.

Speaker 1 (14:50):
Yeah, I think, well you remember this one, but I
think I want to say twenty twenty two, we are
all twenty twenty one. You know, be known to literally
bend the rules in the past. If you remember the
limbo wing, which was causing a bit of controversy at
the time because it was this rear wing that red
Bull had which was I believed you to ground effect,

(15:13):
you know bending or like allowing for better airflow on
the straits, and so you know, red Bull have been
known to make these you know, quite unquote errors in
the past or you know, manipulating the rule book a
little bit, But yeah, come on, you know, they've been
the most dominant car on the field for three years

(15:34):
now and they adjusted so quickly. I remember they had
to sort it out by Baku and then by the
time you hit the French Grand Prix, they were back
at again, just you know, just really back in the
fight once more. And so I think to say that,
you know, to say that this is going to shake
Red Bull to their core, I'm not sure, but clearly

(15:56):
as having an impact, right, But I don't. I only
don't think the max for stapping is a you know,
is someone that you can just catch. I think he's
somebody that needs to be reeled in and I think
he's already a little bit far ahead of the rest
of the pack to be to prove a challenge. But
what is it. Do you think it's going to but
debilitate them the whole rest of the season. I just

(16:17):
don't see it.

Speaker 2 (16:19):
Well, I mean, we'll see, we'll get a better insight
at the Dutch rum Pree just too from here. On
an article it says it red Bulls breaking system revisits
McLaren's nineteen ninety eight bad Fiddle break. That's sort of
like an extra rear braking system. I think the one
with that is definitely illegal.

Speaker 1 (16:41):
One with the infamous picture in the cockpit where they
had the infamous picture of I believe it was Hackenan's
car where a journalist, an opportunist journalist stuck his camera
down the down the cockpit and flashed this picture of
this extra breakthing. Was that it?

Speaker 2 (16:57):
Yeah, it must have been because ninety eight was hacking
in and dog el sacking. Then, oh it must have
been him ninety eight because he won that year.

Speaker 1 (17:08):
But cool dog.

Speaker 2 (17:11):
Yeah, cool tod Yeah, yep, So maybe it we're revisiting
things from twenty thirty years ago. Interesting, interesting, especially coming
from bred Bull, because this could be the beginning of
their so called downfall. I'm not sure. I'm not not
biased in any way, shape or form, but we might

(17:33):
be seeing that, especially with the results that have been
I mean this this year.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Maybe I just I don't I don't write them off nowadays.
I mean you could say that about Mercedes a couple
of years ago, but you know that was a more
I think systemic change. This is a very small change,
right if we think about the regulation shift between twenty
twenty and twenty twenty one, absolutely, you know, sorry, twenty
twenty one, twenty twenty monument right, monumental difference. But you know,

(18:03):
if we're being honest, right, they're going to get affected
by this one thing and then they're going to switch up.
I think the only thing that can really, you know,
really really take away from rebels chances of being a
Titan in the future, it's probably going to be these
upcoming regulations in twenty twenty six or twenty twenty eight,
So I don't know how much. I don't think this

(18:25):
is going to permanently kneecap them. But speaking of something
that may permanently kneecap red Bull is the departure of
Newi and Wheatley, who the latter with which is going
to be team principal at AUDI. I think that's a
pretty you know, fundamental change. You've been reading up on

(18:46):
a bit of Adrian Newey's technical sort of prowess recently,
and what do you think he adds to a team
that rebel are now going to be just missing?

Speaker 2 (18:56):
Well, yeah, I'm reading How to Do a Famous book FORUI,
and it definitely tells me a lot about the sort
of person is. He's very he's a very funny character.
You know, usually when you look at him on the TV,
he's very stern and focused, but then when you read
his book, you can sort of understand that he's he's

(19:16):
just a normal guy and he's just been blessed with
the mind where he can see, he can be cars
and design them right in front of like in front
of in front of us. And I think after reading
what he said in his book about his career, it's
definitely a very influential character and person and member of

(19:40):
team wherever he goes. He's worked in the likes of
Indye Car in America and obviously the pinnacle of sport
Formula One for the last what twenty thirty years, and
I think losing Red Bull, losing Asaneue is very is
very signific. I think even though he wasn't producing championship

(20:03):
winning cars in the beginning of the turbo hybrid era,
he definitely did contribute to a lot of their success.
Obviously Max Staplins championships and the wins that they had
with Daniel Riccardo and in the twenty eighteen to twenty
twenty era, or not twenty to twenty because he was
a reno, but that sort of era when Mercedes was dominating.

(20:25):
I think Adrian Nui did have a lot of contribution
to their success, and I think Reverboard definitely entering a
danger zone in like the state of their team. I mean,
I'm not calling them out or anything. I'm just saying
they've They've got a lot on the line and they
definitely need to perform this season because after losing Adrian Neui,

(20:49):
it's there's there's a lot they need to there's a
lot of work to do. I guess if you can,
if I can say.

Speaker 1 (20:55):
That agreed, I think Rebel are on a bit of
a tightrope. But I think that wheasel they wear out
their way out of it, they always seem to move
for as sure. Speaking of a team that could definitely
use some Adrian Newe in their life, Aston Martin, they
got no podiums, fourteen rounds, seventy three points. It's not

(21:18):
looking great for the team based in Silverstone, where Adrian
Newey may be heading to next season. But I wouldn't.
All of their upgrades seem to be pretty much going sideways,
and there've been some pretty large monumental steps back in
terms of performance compared to last year. Something interesting I
found was that in Austria, for example, twenty twenty three

(21:42):
qualifying was a double Q three this year fifteenth and
seventeenth seven tenths of a second off of their pace
last season. That's the worst step back in terms of
any team in qualifying so far this season. Do you
think that Lawrence Stroll will start playing the blame and
if so, who's going to be the first to go?

Speaker 2 (22:05):
Well, it's interesting that you said that, just to rewind
back to the stats that you said seven ten's at
the same track and a track like Austria where it's
very tight and gap the poll from the twenty is
not very big usually, so it's pretty shocking from Aston Martin.
And then now to answer you actual question about Lawrence Stroll,

(22:28):
I think you're right there is a matter of time
where they're going to have to do something because F
one is a rapidly changing sport. You can't just stay still.
Your this constant development and movement, and I think the
faster the faster you move, the public sort of see
that as development. But even the lower end teams are

(22:49):
still moving, even if even if it's backwards like Aston Martin.
But yeah, definitely Laurence Stroll needs to do something as
as the position he is in as the team principal,
the team principles might crack, right, I think he needs
to step in. He's not a very loud, not very

(23:11):
loud character in the paddock.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
You know, neither is somebody in the past, somebody likes
now has kept it pretty close to the chest. I
think it's only in recent years where form come out.
He's come out. I think that he gets and then
that's meant that he takes more of the blame. So
to an extent, I think stepping back from the limelight
might be the best way for that moment.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
It could definitely be a smarter decision. I think also
in terms of the team, the driver lineup. Mmm, it's
it's very interesting what they've done with Alonso because he's
contracted there till twenty six, I believe, And that's that
was a big shock. Actually, I was gonna I was

(23:59):
going to mention that today it's a big shot because
no offense, but he's sort of coming to at the
end of his career and he's sort of reflecting maybe
like Kimmy Reichen and what he was doing, but moving
from Ferrari to Alfa Romeo. But the question is what
type of team does Alfa Romeo compared to Aston Martin.

(24:22):
If Alonso knows that they're not going to be competitive
and he just wants to be an f one for
the sake of it, maybe that's what he's doing. But
if he genuinely believes that Aston Martin have something for
next year or the next few years, then it could
be the smartest move in history, or not in history,
but in a long time.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Because disappointing me man like, yeah, he has ending him.
I keep on saying, you know, he's got more left
in the tank. You know, I'm step fast by the
fact that I think he does want to win, But
to be honest, nowadays he just wants to take a
paycheck probably and you know, none of the top teams

(25:03):
are probably going to be taking him on. I wouldn't
have thought Mercedes is pivoting to you know, youth. Ferrari's
got their lineup sorted, McLaren's got their line up sorted,
and Rebell racing. God that dynamic Jesus, imagine Max Forstappen
versus Fernando Alonso. I think I think it would really
hit the fan if those two came together because too

(25:25):
much Ego. I know we're saying that Fernando Alonso has
changed and shifted, but he's the same guy, right If
you put him in a championship, you know, a championship
winning car, He's going to take the opportunity, regardless of
whether he's got Max for Stappin on the other side
of the garage. I think so retirement drive. I hate
to say it, but it might be Fernando Alonso's retirement drive,

(25:47):
which kind of kills me remembering his you know days
in Ferrari and then obviously it's transitioned back into the
sport and now in this position where as we've seen
on his day, he has the capacity to do amazing things,
but that's kind of governed now by the car that

(26:08):
he's in, which is never the best feeling for a
long time fan. Do you think he has potential to
do anything in that aston for the rest of the season.
Do you think that car has got anything left in it?
Or is it you know, it's ridden the way as
long as it can and now just waiting for the
next regulations to come through.

Speaker 2 (26:30):
I think the best way to find out is the
first race back after the summer break, because that's when
teams get their money up and they get their research
and development, and hopefully they can bring some up maybe
two or three races into the second half, because it
might be slower for different teams, especially once that lack

(26:50):
of money by Aston Martin. I know they've got Laurence
Strouell funding them, but they're still not as rich as
the top teams. Yeah. I think we need to see
for the results of the when we get back, as
that's the best way to determine the future of plastomat.

(27:11):
And I guess I think I can't expect a major
a major jump, but yeah, I think there might be.
I like to hope that there would be some improvement,
especially competing against the likes of Picksalba, v carb And

(27:32):
and Williams.

Speaker 1 (27:33):
Yeah. I don't think Kicks Aba are going to be
doing a lot of competing anytime soon.

Speaker 2 (27:38):
Zero.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
Yeah, zero points on the board for this joke of
a team. Let's be Frank, bring back the days of
Charlie Leclair and the hobby master Man. Come on now,
I remember that twenty eighteen absolute peak of Well, wasn't
that Mark Serrikson well, I'm getting my dates confused. Market

(28:00):
you know what I mean, Bring back old, bring back
Italian Jesus, do anything? Come on, what is going on
at this team? They have been They've probably had one
of the loudest entrances into the sport in recent memory,
and yet with their.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
Green car as well interesting livery.

Speaker 1 (28:18):
And their ridiculous marketing team, and yet they have zero
points on the board. One finish in the top twelve
all season, and that was the very first race, Joguan.
The question here is basically who's disappointed. Who's disappointed more
for you?

Speaker 2 (28:37):
Val In fact, well, I think it's come to a
point where you can't make rookie excuses With Joe. I
think this is where he's sort of settled into the sport.
I think it's unfortunate because I think he's a talented driver.
He's just been putting in a bad car. Say with

(28:58):
I think everyone, as far as it goes, is what
I see on social media. A lot of people hype
up Valeri Botas and I think I see that, and
I agree that he's a talented driver. It's just a
matter of the state of the team. The lineup itself
seems pretty good, that they they don't seem to have

(29:19):
any conflict and they seem to get along quite quite well.
I think that's just because on an individual level, they're
both very very nice people and they're very just good
teammates to each other and that's great, and they're also
really good drivers. But I think it's purely just the
car that's that's poor, and like the team itself that's

(29:40):
letting them down, right, I think if you look at
their stats or that's in the past. Obviously he was
in the Mercedes, but he was still doing pretty well
and he brought a name to himself even when he
was at Williams and Joe. You know, he even people
say he's a pay driver, but I think he's there

(30:00):
for a reason. But the Alpine Driver Academy, I remember
seeing him back in the day. He was he was
he was doing okay compared to.

Speaker 1 (30:10):
How about Niki Ta Mazapin. You know, we could say
the same about him. You know, he was about a
Joguanu level driver but was inn F two but was
literally the worst F one driver of all time. Sometimes
the skill just doesn't translate, especially when you're not in
a stock car competition, right, So I just think, you know,

(30:38):
I think that is out of his depth personally. I
think it's for me. He is a pay driver. I
don't think there's a few more ways of or any
more ways of you know, maneuvering it. F one's trying

(30:58):
to crack into the Chinese market, which is absolutely booming
at the moment. I just don't see the I don't
I just don't see him having a place in the
sport for for many years to come. But perhaps I
think that he's gone. I think he's gone at the
end of the year. I think he's really disappointed. He's

(31:19):
really let I think let down the people who like yourself.
I think thought that he was going to be, you know,
at least a you know, a Yuki Sonoda caliber driver
or but you know, Danny caveat level. But maybe the
end of Danny Fiert's career. But it's just not looking

(31:40):
like it. It's just not looking likely. I don't think
he's going to I don't think he's gonna last very long.
A mush who if you could pick somebody, would you
replace Joe Guanu with next season. Let's assume that Valerie
Botas is retiring at the end of the year, and
we've got Niico Holgenberg. Who's going into that seat? If
if it has to somebody knew.

Speaker 2 (32:02):
I'm gonna pick someone from f too. Probably I think
well is Kick part of the b Dryer Academy? It
is not.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
I think it is is Ki and the Kick, cass
And and Ferrari.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
Yeah, okay. I think I'd like to go with Pitter
Paldi or Tayo Poche.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I was gonna say t I think he's been absolutely
shysted over the past few years. I think that's a
man who needs to drive about as much as Liam
Lawson does. Speaking of Liam Lawson, actually let's move on
to racing balls. Nyuki Sonoda is absolutely carrying this season

(32:51):
twenty two points compared to Daniel Riccardo's twelve. Checko's performances
continues to fall through. Is he an option yes or no?

Speaker 2 (33:02):
I'm gonna I'm gonna go with I'm gonna go with yes.
I think the another thing I'd like to talk about
Red Bull is the second drivers situation. I think that's
underlooked because of the idea of Checker having such a
big marketing power. I think everyone just uses that as
an excuse to keep him in. Everyone knows it, but

(33:24):
we just don't talk about it enough because I think
it's such a serious thing. You know, the fact that
a team that's leading the championship, the driver, the second
driver hasn't won a race or performed as to how
he is how he should be. You is definitely a
suitable option to have as a second driver. I think

(33:48):
with his experience in the sport, he's definitely matured enough
to be put in the top team. But what I'm
really surprised about is that, if not Yuki Sonoda, why
did Red Bull not consider Carlo Science. That's what I
want to ask you, Ben, because that is what has

(34:08):
that has shocked me quite a lot. I know that
Massapen and Carlor Scigns have been teammates in the past,
and I wouldn't say that their relationship is necessarily bad.
I think there were definitely worse drive relationships out there
on the grid and in the past, so you can't
really make excuses for them not being teammates. And I
definitely think that Carlos Science should have been of a

(34:32):
primary option for the second seat.

Speaker 1 (34:37):
It is a tough one. I think there's a few
things that could motivate it. I think one could be,
you know, your classic bureaucracy. You've got to get the
money flowing in somehow. And Mexico is a huge market
in not quite the way it's China, but Mexico is

(35:00):
a huge market. Sergio Paris is a Mexican icon. He's
bringing in the really, really big bucks. That's one solution. Relationships,
you know, to an extent, we can try and understand,
or we can try and know the relationship between two drivers,
but in reality we don't have the grip on it.

(35:23):
That driver's survive would like us to believe, right, But
I just I to be honest with you. If I
was in charge of you know, if I was held
with Marco, I would be taking a very good look
at myself in the mirror and wondering what on earth
I'm still doing in this job, because that is an oversight.

(35:45):
Carlos science a driver, in my opinion, in his prime
on the market. You know, as a free agent, I
think there's no more attempting an offer probably in the
past five years in terms of F one driver free
agents that are going without a seat, that's searching for
a seat. I don't think there's been a single driver

(36:08):
who has been as enticing as Carlos Science in terms
of mid season moves. I'm trying to think of the
last time there was a driver who really who like
mid season is just searching for a seat.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Uh, Daniel Riccardo.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
That's yep. Daniel Rick, Daniel Daniel Rick from from Reno
that was decision but from McLaren less so even even
what we're from you thinking from I was.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Talking about I was talking about unemployment to alpad Powery
last year.

Speaker 1 (36:44):
But I just you know, he's coming off a bad season.
Carlos Science is coming off a really really good season. Granted,
oh right.

Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, yeah, that that. I can't think of anyone not
mid season I think have done that or hasn't he
with what did you say with Reno from Alpha from
Coro Rosso?

Speaker 1 (37:04):
It was so he was without contract at Reno, wasn't he?

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Yeah? And then did he just try to move to McLaren.
From there he got replaced by Akon Yeah, or the
twenty no, because Ocon didn't drive in twenty nineteen.

Speaker 1 (37:22):
Oh, it was a decision meanly three drivers, wasn't It
was Hulkenbergen's But anyway, yeah, Carlo Science do not know
why he's being left out to dry like that. I
think it's a mistake from Red Bull. I think Yuki
Sonoda if he puts in them some more stellar, stellar performances.
I think it's between him Lawson Perez now for the seat,

(37:43):
but how much. We're going to take a quick break
now and we'll be back soon to discuss the remainder
of the arguments, the remainder of the claims towards the
Red Bull number two seat for twenty twenty five and beyond.
Welcome back to F one isn't real, Ash. We are

(38:07):
currently in discussion about the Red Bull see for next season.
We left it off Perees, we left it off at Lawson,
We left it off a Snoda. Where do you think
it is going?

Speaker 2 (38:24):
I think there's a I have two answers. There's an
answer who I wanted to go to, and then there's
an answer which I probably think it will go to. First.
I think it will go to Perees for next year
five the driver lineup will be in Maxi Staffan and
Serjo Perez. But I don't think that's right, and I

(38:45):
think a lot of people will agree with me. I'm
sure you Ben will agree with me and a lot
of people, whether they're Red Bull supporters or not, they
will they will think that a different driver, whether it's
on the grid or not, but there on the grid
or not, will should be driving that Red Bull card
next year. I think it should be Uki Sinoda, not

(39:07):
Liam Lawson because he doesn't have enough experience in F
one to do that. I think what would happen is,
as much as it's sad to see check O leaving,
I think he will be out of a seat for
next year, move Yukisnoda up to Red Bull and move
Liam Lawson up to VCARB And I think that's like

(39:30):
how the cycle was sort of meant to go the
Red Bull Driver Academy. That's happened with pretty much everyone,
said Vettel, Daniel Ricardo, Maxistappen, nearly Carlos signs, but it
sort of worked out well for him anyway, because he
ended up going to McLaren and then to Ferrari. But
I think that's the traditional route, especially in the last

(39:50):
twenty years with the beginning of the driver Academy, I
think Red Bull have definitely had the most successful young
driver program. You'd think it'd be Ferrari because you know,
they're a prestigious team, and I think they just goes
to show how that Red Bull still are a successful team.
And I think the short amount of time that they

(40:11):
managed to do all of this stuff is it's pretty
important her to take in. But yeah, I think what
I said about Ukusenodo is important. He should go that
second sea at Red Bull and bring in Liam Lawson
to v CARB.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
I'm pretty impressed with the USA, to be honest. I
remember back to points in his career where he struggled.
I remember his rookie No, it was the second season.
It was at the Amelia Romanu Grand Prix. He absolutely
destroyed the back end of his car and quality and
that kind of thing.

Speaker 2 (40:47):
That was his rookie season though that was that was
twenty one, Yeah, I remember that. And then also in
I think it was France qualifying in his rookie.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
And then we had I think it was last year
in Canada. He literally had a horrible mistake around lap forty,
sent the car careering into the wall as he came
out of the pits. Just things like this, Mistakes like this.
The uk Sonoda has tended to make over the years
and the attitude and the you know, kind of getting
to grips with having a teammate who won't always you know,

(41:21):
support him. I remember I remember an incident which the
two Alvhataris were sent spinning. I can't remember. I think
that might have been in France. But you know, Yuks
knows has been susceptible to such incidents in the past,
but this year I think he stepped up a bit. Obviously,
the car is holding him back from his full potential,

(41:42):
but you know, I think he's done this pretty good job,
especially compared to the you know, the caliber of his
teammate Daniel Ricardo. I think he's had six or seven,
I believe seven point scoring finishes so far this season.
He's wealth in the championship, just behind Nico Holkenberg.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
Though.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Do I think he's a Red Bull caliber driver. No?
Do I think he's a Maxi Staffan. Do I think
he's a Daniel Ricardo as prime? Do I think he's
a Sebastian Vettele. You know, Do I think he's a
Mark Webber? Absolutely not. No, I think he is a
serviceable Daniel Kveer, Right, I think he's a you know,
a usable driver. I think he's he would be a

(42:25):
good number two. I think he's allowed his attitude to
kind of calm down a bit. But what's really concerning
me for for Red Bull is that just they don't
really have a clear good number two driver that can
take them into the future with this new regulation. And
I think Carlos Science would have been that. I think
he would have stepped into the role and he would

(42:47):
have done an excellent job of it if the you know,
if the calling, if the call had come, but it didn't,
and that's what I think is the biggest oversight. They
had the opportunity to go for the best driver, but
instead they're just they're seemingly prioritizing Max as extremely weak ego.
I don't understand it. Frankly, I think Carlos SNS would

(43:08):
have been an obvious option. Yukis Snowder perhaps second best,
but probably not very likely. I think they'll keep State
stick with Sodio Peris to be frank Another team that's
going through a little bit of a risis in terms
of where they think they're going to be going in

(43:29):
terms of drivers next season is Mercedes, whose stock has
probably not been this high since twenty twenty. I think
that's when the most hype around Mercedes was in the
past four or five years when they were just dominating
race after race after race. But is it sustainable? Is

(43:53):
it sustainable? Three wins in the last four and a
podium in each of the last five Grand Prix. They've
outperformed themselves, They've overcome technical difficulties like porpoising, and they've
just come through this period I think of a dark age,
I guess in terms of Mercedes. But have they actually

(44:13):
got to the end of the time of war? Is
there more to go?

Speaker 2 (44:18):
That's a good question. Actually, it's a good topic to
talk about Mercedes because I think they've sort of been
hiding in the shadows the last two years because red
Ball has just been stepping on the top of the podium.
I think the last it's very important to look at
the last what five races? He said, three wins and

(44:39):
a bunch of podiums, Because it's two drivers, that's a
crazy amount of success out of the blue. I think.
I think it was total walk who said that there
would be success coming at the beginning of the season.
He said that, and he wasn't wrong. We saw it,
We saw it happen, and I think I'm glad that
Mescedes a sort of back on top. I like to

(45:01):
say it will be consistent. I think Mercedes for the
rest of the season. That is, Mercedes will definitely score
podiums at the minimum like Sylviral McLaren and hopefully Ferrari.
But as to their wins, I think it's difficult to say,
because if you look at one of them, Austria, I

(45:23):
think that was purely because of Landon Norris and Macro
Saplins incident on the final app and that sort of
brought George Russell the win. So if you look at
their two other wins, I think Lewis Hamilton completely deserved
that and Belgium, well, the win ended up going to

(45:44):
Lewis Hamilton, but it would it was initially a one
two before Georgia Russell's disqualification. So I think let's just
go to show the strengths Mercedes have at the moment
and if they can sort of carry this momentum into
the the second half of the season, Stephanie, it's definitely

(46:04):
looking good for them. Maybe they could be challenging my
team McLaren to P two or P two for the
for the constructors, I'm not sure at the moment.

Speaker 1 (46:17):
Exactly one hundred points behind.

Speaker 2 (46:21):
Okay, okay, find this quite this quite a gap then,
but look at the consistency or not the consistent Look
at the massive points that they've scored. It's quite a lot.

Speaker 1 (46:32):
So I'm looking attics here and I'm just you know,
the thing I'm just being wary of is perhaps similar
circuits maybe maybe lending your hand. You know, you've got
quite high speed Belgium, quite high speed Great Britain, quite
high speed Spielberg, all of these high speed circuits where
they're having success in. Then if you go to somewhere,
you know, perhaps less favorable like Spain. For example, they

(46:56):
didn't get a podium in spect I know, sorry they
did lose Hamilton, excuse me, but or they didn't get
a podium in morning though for example. So is it
perhaps the circuit, Maybe that's that's giving them the advantage
of the moment.

Speaker 2 (47:09):
Yeah, I think it's That's an interesting thing as well,
because for every team, or at least at the top,
as far as I'm concerned, that the circuit is very important.
I remember back in the Mercedes domination days, people used
to say that Red Bull were very suited for Monaco
because of their error package and they didn't have as

(47:33):
good of an engine as Mercedes, so that's why we
saw Daniel Ricardo win in twenty eighteen and then twenty
nineteen Mattress happened was on the tail of Lewis Hamilton
for pretty much the whole race, or at least after
a pit stop or something like that. So I think
the track is important to consider as the Mercedes in particular,

(47:54):
I think high speed tracks are sort of suited to
them and like we say so as still a sting
to Bilberg, they they're definitely high speed, high degradation as well.
I think Mercedes is definitely a good race car, so
that's why I think in races, in the actual race

(48:17):
on a Sunday, they will perform better than qualifying and practice.
If you look at a different team like McLaren there,
I think their car is very suited for high speed corners,
so like Japan when you have like the famous one
thirty R corners like that and tracks like that which
have high speed zones, that suits their car. And then

(48:42):
obviously Red Bull is very well rounded everywhere. But I
think it comes to a point where you have to
give it to the driver when talking about Red Bull
because matches Staffan and Sergia Peters's performance has such a big,
big margin. But yeah, to answer a question directly, I

(49:04):
think the track does make a difference where we're going next.
We're going to the Netherlands Dutch Corn Prix and brought Is.
It's a very unique track. I think it's it's very
tight and it's very difficult to overtake. It seems it's
not very big at all, it seems I think it's
one of the shorter seconds as well, so I think

(49:24):
it'll be very difficult for Mercedes to score podiums maybe
or definitely not the win for example, unless something crazy happens.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
But yeah, Mercedes also, I think Mercedes. The Mercedes car
is quite temperamental as well. I think we've had a
bit of a lull perhaps for some months. But we're
going to example, where it's extremely windy. They're going to
have to really keep themselves on the track, and as
we know from their purposing struggles, they were not having
a great time. They're having a pretty torrid time, to

(49:53):
be frank, of keeping their car in a straight line
comfortably in the past few seasons, and those cars are
still in place, and that those windswept conditions could really
make for some interesting moments for Mercedes. We were talking
about McLaren as well and their success so far this season.
I think this one really needs to be analyzed Mercedes.

(50:15):
I think, you know, you know, those micro climates that
you have, like for example, San Francisco is a microclimate
very cold. This might be a little micro climate of Mercedes.
I don't know how long it's going to last, but
I'm enjoying it well. It does for sure, say McLaren,

(50:35):
this is some serious consistency from McLaren. This is some
serious quality and it's a bit of you know, early
days of Red Bull success in the twenty tens, where
Mark Webber and Sebastian Vettel seemed to be locked in
this battle of who is going to come out on top.

(50:57):
Sebastian Vettal of course doing some more every single time.
I think he had the edge slightly, but Mark Webber
was always in it, and I think it might be
a similar situation with protege of Mark Webber, Ostrica Piastre
and Orlando Norris. Perhaps for some years to come. They
are the flavor of the month, for sure. They're less

(51:22):
than fifty points of the Constructors Championship, and I think
what's left to kind of think about, just stepping back
from their success this season is what is their biggest
obstacle that's preventing them from taking the twenty twenty four

(51:43):
Constructors Championship.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I think I think the biggest the biggest factor that
will start McClaren from winning the twenty twenty four Constructor
Championship is your performance compared to regular March. Second, I
think the media, the padder. I think everyone in general

(52:09):
just talks about the conflict between and London Rus a
bit too much and they sort of figure it up
in a way. Yeah yeah, yeah, they sort of make
a big deal and mounted out of them role in
this sort of situation. I think if you if you

(52:30):
look at the characters of the drivers individually, look Ostry,
he's probably one of the best team members I've ever
seen as in F one, you know one drivers they're
they're not They're there to win, right And I'm not
doubting is drive to be successful in Formula One. I'm

(52:50):
just saying that he's a good team player and I
think that's something that every team should have someone every
team should have. So I think the the problems that
people are talking about between the driver lineup, I think
it's it's wrong and it shouldn't be spoken about it in
that way because not that long ago, when Oscar Prehistory

(53:10):
was a rookie, everyone was talking about how how great
this drive lineup would be. And I think we've sort
of flipped the switch way too quickly over over a
short period of time where McClaren has seen so much success,
Like I just don't I don't really understand where that's
coming from.

Speaker 4 (53:26):
I think it's maybe the pressure of winning and success
has just gotten to everyone, and I think it's just
become the talking point in Formula one.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
And I think that's wrong because it sort of makes
it puts a bad image on the drivers. It makes
Landon Norris seem sort of spoiled, not spoilt, but ungrateful.
For like the teammate that.

Speaker 1 (53:50):
Has I think he's I think spiled wrong. I think
he's had three quality teammates in his time at McLaren,
and I think he's bitched and he's moaned and he's complained,
and he's talked to the media and he's compared their
contracts and he is a bit of a brat. To

(54:15):
be honest with you, I'm sorry to violate your favorite driver,
but I think he is a bit ungrateful, and I
think he's Oscar's taken a year to get into it
and in a similar way to Maxim stapp and Norris
is seeing this driver he poses somewhat of a threat
to him, and he doesn't like it, and he's throwing
the toys out the pram. You know, I think this

(54:37):
is all shaping up if okay, let me just put
it like this. If McLaren were currently fighting for the championship,
Lando Norris would be in the media every other day, complaining, moaning, talking,
you know, talking shit about Zach Brown, talking shit about
Oscar Piastri, about the management about the car. I think
now that the stakes are lower, for sure, right, for sure,

(55:00):
he's you know, holding off a bit. I think Norris
has the capacity to explode.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
Okay, that's interesting. I mean, I can I'm not going
to disagree with you. I think I've seen moments in
the past where Landonus has been like that. But I
think I don't think it's affecting their results as much
as people say it would be. And I mean, I
don't know what's going to happen next, but I don't think,
especially after Hungary, anything like that will happen again. Hungry

(55:31):
was the moment, in my opinion, where Landinis properly showed
what you just stated that he was ungrateful and all
of this stuff about him because he didn't give the
place up. I think what's important to reflect on is
the fact that he did, regardless of how late he
did it.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
I think let's think about, you know, the Stappen in Brazil.
I think last year or two years ago with Cheko,
he was meant to give the position and could have
gone like that, and I know he didn't give it. Listen,
Norris has got to do it because he doesn't have
the leverage Max fu Stappins won three World Championships. He

(56:13):
has the power and the leverage at Red Bull to
not do anything that they do. He can choose, He
can pick and choose if he wants to be a
good teammate. He does not have a leg to stand on.
He has not won anything so far apart from one
Grand Prix at Miami. He's been pushing through, but he's
nowhere near mix of Staphin's level of dominance. If he

(56:34):
hadn't given that place back, I think Lando Norris would
be out of a seat by the end of his
contract because McLaren do not want. McLaren are possibly entering
their best era in perhaps the last decade, perhaps the
last decade and a half, and I don't think, I

(56:58):
do not think they're going to get it over a kid,
no matter how talented he is, throwing his story about
the prem and I think Norris needs to have a
serious evaluation before he, you know, just what prudes the
bear like that. Yes, he gave his position very well. Yeah,
thank you, misson very well.

Speaker 2 (57:18):
Put. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean it's sort of broadened
my perspectives there because I think as a Landas fan,
I've sort of been subconsciously defending what he does on
the track and on the media. And I think it's good.
It's good to have a sort of more honest and
true perspective. I think that's great that you've said. That

(57:42):
made me open my eyes a bit more. But I
have I have another question for you now, actually moving
moving towards the back of the pack, I think i'd
like to ask you about the situation with my good
friend Alexander Alan. I wish he was my friend, But
I like to ask you about alex album because I
think alex Album is arguably one of the most wasted

(58:06):
potentials on the grid, I think, and his album definitely
deserves the Mercedes seat for next year to be teammates
with George Russell. He's definitely at his time at Williams.
He's definitely proved so not only in Mercedes but every
other team that he he's he will be a race winner.

(58:27):
I think it's just the car and that he needs
and he needs to be in the right environment. If
you look at his career so far, right he's been,
he's been. He's been under so much pressure at such
an early point in his career, in his rookie season.
At the end of his rookie season, he was having
to be teammates with Maxi Stappen, even though it was

(58:51):
pre his first championship, it was still Maxis Stappen in
the RB fifteen or or sixth no the RB fifteen
from twenty nineteen. Yeah, and it was difficult for him
and it was difficult for anyone in that seat. Look
at Pierre Gasly, the reason Alex Album was there was

(59:11):
because Pierre Gasley was struggling, and I think I think
I saw him on a podcast and I mentioned this
before in the pod on f one. Isn't real that
about what Alex Alban has said Red Bull they designed
their car around MAXI seven, even though it's Adrian EWI right,

(59:32):
it's Max's Happens car, and anyone who drives that, no
matter how talented they are, it will be very difficult
for them to be as good as him because that
car is Yeah, it's fast, but it's fast only for him.
So I think the whole world has probably seen Alex
Album as as worse of a driver than he actually is.
I know he had his fair share of glory in

(59:56):
Red Bull, no not non Red Bull, in Williams, and
I think that's definitely enough to prove that he's a
worthy driver. And yes, we might be comparing him to
the Logan Sergeant, but I think he was teammates with
Nicholas and TP as well, and you can't really you
can't really use that as very sourceful information, but it

(01:00:18):
still goes to show you know, he's carrying the team.
I know they're only on four points, but it still
feels that they have some sort of success.

Speaker 1 (01:00:26):
But he got all four of them.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Yeah, he got all four of them. And even when
they don't score points, he's the one who finishes first,
you know. And he's probably the face of Williams. And
I think he deserves to go to Mercedes, and I
think what's stopping him. I think he does have some
affiliation with the Red Bull. I did remember reading up
on this that when he did start with Williams in

(01:00:49):
the first place, he did have to make an agreement
with the Red Bull or something that he's still part
of the driver academy. So that's why he's not going
to their mateam mhm.

Speaker 1 (01:01:00):
He's still got on his helm, hasn't he.

Speaker 2 (01:01:03):
Yeah, it does. And I think that's that's a bit
weird because Williams Mercedes is the name of the team
and their driver has a sort of h Nemesis as
a sponsor. Well, but that's that's not for me to
get into because I don't really know the details of
the rules there. That's within that's private within the team.

(01:01:23):
Maybe it's you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:26):
Do some digging.

Speaker 2 (01:01:28):
I do need to do something actually a little yeah,
this is I might need to do some digging. Actually, yeah, yeah,
I definitely think alex albon is. I definitely think alex
I wanted to waste in potential here. It's sad because
I really do think he is a great driver. He's
a great character as well. Uh, and it's about time

(01:01:52):
he does move up. I think he's not becoming old,
but he's sort of getting into the main part of
his career and he's sort he can't be young forever,
and I think it's now or never for him to
move up to a team like this. Otherwise, yeah, he
just won't ever make it if he doesn't move soon.
I think by when the new regulations come as Albo

(01:02:15):
should be in a top titeen. I definitely think that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
You know, I have some reservations about Alex alban I
know that he's performing and he's outperforming. As you said,
it's against Logan SiGe and it's against Nicholas's Tefe. We
need to see him against Carlos science that as a
killer pairing, but we need to see it happen, and
then we need to see how Alexander that our one reacts.

(01:02:41):
He's had his opportunity, has had his moment in the sun,
and perhaps we can say it's too early. Perhaps we
could say that he wasn't given the chances or the
number of chances that we believe that he deserved. But
look at someone like Pierre Ghastly. This man went from
red Bull failure to Alpha Tari Masterclass to Alpine mid

(01:03:05):
We've got Alex now former red Bull failure move to
Williams make some waves. But can he follow through on
that or is he already passed his peak? Has he
already gone past his potential? I think the question is
still in the air, But I don't want to make
a bold prediction about this, you know, without seeing in

(01:03:28):
reality that much product.

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
Yeah, that's It's interesting how you compared Ay Album to
chier Ghazi because one was the predecessor of the other.
But I think what you need to think about is,
I know you're looking at his performance this season comparing
him to Logan Sergeant, but you also do need to
compare him to the other drivers on the grid.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
I think if you look at the seven and the
Constructors Championship, we've got Alpine, Williams and Kick. I think
out of all of the drivers in the back marker squad,
Alex Album is probably the best driver out there, even
though they haven't scored the most points. It it. I

(01:04:19):
do feel that Alex albe has the most potential to
be successful at this moment in time because if you
look at well the high scoring team out the back
markers for as Ferrari twenty seven, but Nico Holkenberg and
Kevin Magison, they are sort of approaching an era where

(01:04:40):
they can't they can't be going to a top team.
I think that's because of age and also I don't
think they are of that caliber. But Alex Albon is
in a sort of prime position, his sort of golden
era to be going to a top team. I think
he sort of got messed up at an early part

(01:05:04):
of his career. It sort of messed him up, and
not mentally, but like in his career, in his reputation
that he had so much pressure on him at Red Bull.
He took a step back, took a year out and
went to Williams and he sort of found his He
found his groove, found his mojo, if you get what
I mean. And I think he's in the best possible position. Now,

(01:05:27):
do you remember Canada this year he had that that
was him who had that double overtake. Obviously it was
rain and it was you could say it was luck,
but not many people could pull off a move like
that and it could have been could have been a
crash or.

Speaker 1 (01:05:41):
Yellow car did the same. I believe Belgium last year,
I think Esbernok pulled off a double double. He had
two double overtakes. It might have been Munza. Do you
recall this last season double overtakes in one race. I
think it was Monza. S Mono CON's out of a

(01:06:03):
drive this season, you know it was Spar. I think
it was Spar okay, so Spar again. If you look
at the moments are brilliance, But can you follow through?
Can Alexander album prove that he is more than his
Red Bull stint? Can he prove that he is more

(01:06:24):
than a relatively backmarker Williams seat. So far, he hasn't
proved that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Hmm, that's I think that's a bit harsh. I think
look at on right, Yeah he has you're right, he
had his best share of glory, you know, a winning
Hungry Cup, podiums here and there, but consistency wise, there's nothing,
and he is consistently it seems to me that he's
sort of like a clumsy driver because he's just always

(01:06:53):
getting into incidents, even more of his teammates, especially like
his relationship with Piegazi this year, probably the worst driver
on the grid and it's probably one of the worst
driver relationships in teammate relationships in F one history. I mean,
I've never seen anything worse. It's it's pretty poor and

(01:07:15):
I'm disappointed because well, I think there was a lot
of hype in the all French team. You know, two
French drivers and the French team. It didn't really make
much sense to me because you can you can be
from different countries and get along just as well. But
I think there was just a lot of marketing around that.
When I think it was it was gas Lee who

(01:07:36):
joined helping it after. So when Gazi got signed, I
think there was just so much on the media going
around and it just didn't really make much sense to me.
And they proved, I would proved right when when and
Gazzy just started getting into collisions in races. I think
it was it was last year. Was it ghastly Australia.

Speaker 1 (01:08:02):
I believe in Australia that was after the red flag
came into contact. I think that was the first LAB incident.
I'm gonna I'm gonna call that as a first LAB incident.

Speaker 2 (01:08:11):
Yeah, there's just there's just so many of those, and
I think obviously some of them are avoidable.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
This guy just can't get along.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Yeah, Yeah, it's it's unfortunate because himself is a nice guy.
There's not I think. I mean, I don't really know
what they're truly like because of media, pr training and
things like that, but you can sort of tell who's
nice and not. And I think is a very nice
guy and he just he means well. He's just sometimes

(01:08:39):
the F one or all the time in F one,
you do have to be harsh, and I think he's not.
He's not worthy of the seat anymore. Yeah, I think
unless he wins every other race of the season, he can't.
There's not much to do to prove himself.

Speaker 1 (01:08:54):
And it's just before we go into our final break.
I'm going to ask you a question that I asked
you about three months ago, and at the time you
struggle to want to me out of Gasly and Okhan,
which driver is better.

Speaker 2 (01:09:15):
Pierre Gasly. I think Pierre Gazly is talented driver and
I think he has more potential than I think regardless
of age. I'm not sure who's older, but I think
Pierre Gasley will go further just because of how they're
doing now. I think they've been in the sport roughly
the same amount of time. Pierre Ghazzlely twenty sixteen or seventeen,

(01:09:35):
he debuted, similar with Okon, and I think they've had
their time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:43):
Okan started his career at Manner I think twenty sixteen.

Speaker 2 (01:09:47):
Yeah, man A twenty sixteen yeah, and then Force Force India.

Speaker 1 (01:09:51):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
But I'd like to say like they've been in the
sport long enough where they can't be making the mistakes
that they are, and I think Okon just makes more
mistakes and I think that's that's a significant factor when
looking at the two drivers. Although neither of them have
pulled off some outstanding performances, it's a matter of who
is sort of worse, not who is better. And obviously

(01:10:15):
it's not nice to see On like like but down
like that, but I think you just have to be
harsh when it comes to drivers that twenty drivers in
F one and how many people are there in the world,
You know, these are the top of the top, and
I think a lot of people would agree with me
by saying that Pia Ghastly is better. What do you think.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
I think I've got to give it to Pier Ghasly,
just off of just off of lifetime form. I think
looking at Pierre Gasly's victory in Munza in twenty twenty,
that could have been the pinnacle of his career and
he could never of succeeding the way he did like

(01:11:01):
that again, but he proceeded to defy people who made
such comments by absolutely taking it to the rest of
the field in twenty twenty one. I remember, I remember
when I used to run F one club at the
school that we once both went to. I had a

(01:11:23):
I had a best driver and worst driver decision that
I had to make each week, and it was Ghasly, Ghazly,
Ghazly Gasly, fourth, fourth, fourth, fourth. This guy finished fourth
in twenty twenty one. So many times, again and again
he was one of the most consistent drivers on the grid.
I think he finished top seven in points in an
Alpha Tari with Yuki Sonoda, a teammate who at the

(01:11:45):
time was one of the worst drivers on the grid.
Pierre Gasly's lifetime form has been exceptional Estebanokkins has been flaccid,
frankly one podium sorry, one victory, couple poms other that's
outside of that. Outside of that, Esteban Okhn has been riding,

(01:12:07):
in my opinion, off of consistency, but you know, never brilliant.
And that's what ghastly has shown that he is capable
of and what Ocon just has not shown that he
is capable of it. I don't think he's If I
can make a prediction about Okhan's trajectory, I think either

(01:12:30):
he snags a very lucky seat somewhere, like I don't know,
kind of the options are pretty much the options are
pretty much taken up. Now where are we saying maybe
like perhaps perhaps has perhaps the final hash seat. Maybe

(01:12:54):
I would be pretty shocked, but I just don't think
got it. Where do you think he would go? If anywhere?

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
M wait, hasn't he know who's been signed so far?
Olibam and oh sorry, quickly antil question. I don't think
he'll be in a steep the next week. But I
like that I had to quickly review the the current
signing twenty five.

Speaker 1 (01:13:23):
Okay, so that yes, of course, So what we've got
is we've got Neigo, Holtenberg to Alpha Tweri. Sorry, we've
got We've got Hamilton to Ferraris.

Speaker 2 (01:13:39):
We start team by team, let's team.

Speaker 1 (01:13:43):
Okay, so we go from Red Bull. It's Panels Claren
Leclaire and Hamilton asked him Martin. We've got Alonso and Stroll, Williams.
We've got Album in Science, Holtenberg is at Salba Kick
with one seat open, Russell in the Mercedes possibly Commie

(01:14:05):
Antonelli going over to that seat next season. Then we've
got Norris and Piastre at McLaren, Pierre gasliat Alpine with
one seat yet to be filled. And oh wait, occons
excuse me, I completely forgot that Okan signed for Has.

Speaker 2 (01:14:23):
Yeah, that's what I was going to say, did sign
for Hats? Sorry? Sorry, Sorry to all the listeners out there.
We have been wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:14:33):
We're losing.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
We made a mistake. We're losing our minds out here.

Speaker 1 (01:14:37):
That's one. That's the time. If ever there was a
time to go for a break, I think it's now.
We'll be right back, rounding off our review of the
twenty twenty four season so far with Ferrari and Has.
All right, we are back for the final segment, of

(01:15:01):
twenty twenty one summer recap. Sorry, twenty twenty one, Oh
my goodness me, it's been a long day everybody. Summer
recap Right, two teams left to cover. Let's start, shall
we with Team HALFS? Team Has? It's been a pretty

(01:15:21):
been a pretty similar story over it has. It's been
a pretty familiar story. We've had eighty one of Hass's
points this season taken by Nico Holgenberg. It's been an
absolute titan so far this year. Can Camag make any

(01:15:42):
impact or any inroads or is he just complete toast?

Speaker 2 (01:15:49):
Well, I mean came, he's a great driver, you know,
I think you're just stay had the burden of being
in a bad team for so long, you know, like
people call him a viking on his return after twenty
twenty one sitting out. I think it's great to have

(01:16:09):
him back. Well, I mean, he's been back for a
while now, but I think he's coming on up, if
not a plateau, a downward hill. Look at like what
you said that proportion of the points going to Nico
Holgenberg speaking of him, I would really, really really I'm
sure you would agree. I really would like to see

(01:16:32):
Nico Holgenberg get a podium before he retires. I hope
this year. I think we all yeah, I think he
needs it. Look, I mean, he's one of the most
resilient drivers to stay in F one for this long
and not have a podium. And it's not like he's
performed badly. He stayed in the sport because he's performed

(01:16:55):
well enough to stay there. And it's just a shame
that he's been Like Kevin Magnuson, he's been locked down
by being in a back market team. No offense to
the Hats by any means, it's just how it is.
I'd like to see I'd like to see Nico Holgenberg
in get a podium in a half as well. That

(01:17:17):
would be even better. Whereas he going next year, he's
going to sala I think that's a poor decision if
you if you continue, if every team sort of stays
the same how they're doing into next year, he's Salva
zero points. They're by far the worst team in all

(01:17:41):
in all means uh, And I think Niko Holgenberg moving
to kick Salabat is sort of like digging a hole
deeper into his career. He's sort of like running away
from that podium if you understand what I mean. Obviously
he's going to the Way team. What more can you say?

Speaker 1 (01:18:02):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:18:02):
And I do feel sorry for him even though he's
made this decision. He could have stayed with PASS, but
I think he's sort of got on board with the
whole the whole team, I guess the same time, well,
you know the potential that the nicer Holkeenberg could be
racing for Audi Absolutely, Yeah, as Mardi in the.

Speaker 1 (01:18:22):
Sport in twenty twenty six. So perhaps an ill advised
decision for now. But if Nico Holkemberg can hold his
own for the next few years, he could be heading
Let's hope he could be heading for it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:34):
Let's hope and pray to all all the viewers and
all the listeners. Let's prayer. Let's hope that this is
one of the best career decisions. Yeah, I think I.

Speaker 1 (01:18:44):
Think he deserves it, But will he get it?

Speaker 2 (01:18:47):
Probably not.

Speaker 1 (01:18:47):
Let's just be honest. I mean, I hate to be there.

Speaker 2 (01:18:50):
He does deserve it, doesn't he. I mean, yeah, you
just got to be realistic sometimes. Yeah, speaking of PASS
for next year, I think that's that's not looking good.
I think it's a recipe for disaster. I think what
would be even worse would be having Good to sign
a back at half with Ocon. I think that I

(01:19:13):
think that's it's still not as bad as twenty eighteen,
twenty nineteen with Grojon and Magnuson. But it's not that
it's not horrible, true, but I think it's a runner
unp to previous pass incidents or lineups. Right, Ben, I'm
very excited. I'm very excited to have Bemen in there.

(01:19:34):
I remember when what it was this year. It feels
like ages ago, right that he that he's just that
he was racing in Jedda and I remember he would
have Well he's only a year and a bit older
than me. That's crazy, and I think I'm really looking
forward to seeing him drive the next year. I'm really
glad that he got the got the seat in the end,

(01:19:56):
and I.

Speaker 1 (01:19:56):
Think seventeen days older than you're, yeah he is.

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
He is like Kim, only a few weeks older. In
a bit, two weeks in a bit, my bad.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
You can't do your mass and it's like different and
you could be h you could be vying for.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
Yeah. So I think, yeah, I'm glad that them and
and I think, yeah, Kim Anthony. It's about time we
see that name come up more in in F one,
you know, has already been talked about quite a lot,
and I think the reason people talking about him so
much isn't because he's too young. It's because he's he's

(01:20:35):
just got that talent and he can he can make it.
He's talk about the next Max stuff and really, and
I think it's interesting what the f I have done.
I think Mercedes were sort of not tampering, but they
were just trying to get their own way by changing
the rule that you don't have to be eighteen anymore
to get your super license. That is very tailored to

(01:20:58):
Kim's contract because what he's not eighteen. So I think
that's a very strong sign to the public and all
Left one fans out there wherever you are, that Kimmy
Antonelli is coming, and he's coming fast and strong.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
But very the championship He's seventh. Who are olive Kimi Antonelli?

Speaker 2 (01:21:24):
I mean sorry about that? In F two, yeah, that, yeah,
I don't. I don't really know what's going on in
the F two scene. I'm not an avid follower as
much as I should be. I'm sort of embarrassed to
say that. However, I do know after seeing or seeing
a few clips, they've had their their scraps, fair share

(01:21:46):
of fighting. I think that caliber of rating is shown
there instead of on the results on the on the
score sheets or the table, the scoring table. You know,
there might not be P one and P two, but
they are definitely showing on the track that they're worth
They're worthy of an F one seat. I think this

(01:22:09):
is very similar to twenty eighteen F two where we
saw Georgie rossall Landon Norris and Alborn fighting it out.
And I think obviously they scored. They finished P one,
two and three in the end, but I think even
if they didn't, they still would be where they are today.

Speaker 1 (01:22:28):
I don't think they're generational talents, though I think you're
generational talents. I don't know if necessarily Olie Behman, Kimmie
Antonelli and you know, Jack Doing, et cetera. I don't
know if these guys are generational, right we you know,
we don't. They're not Lewis Hamilton, you know, and you know,

(01:22:50):
to be fair right, you could have somebody with the
most experience in the world. Let's look Attes one F two.

Speaker 2 (01:22:55):
Yeah, exactly is he won and he's an F two champion, and.

Speaker 1 (01:22:59):
Where FE champion got and was touted as the next
best thing for basically for years and years and years
started out McClaren, transitioned to Mercedes and now look comes
in for half a year and completely drops the ball. Yeah,

(01:23:23):
and I think there's just got to be you know,
there's there's no way of knowing exactly how things are
going to work out, and sometimes you've just got to
go with your initiative, go with your instinct. At the
same time, there are you know, many many drivers on
that field, Zay Maloney for example, who's currently fourth in
the championship, who I think are do it equally is

(01:23:45):
a good job. It's only the pr boost has really
helped with early Bearman. I think only Beerman being thrown
into that seat performing on that one occasion as Nick
Devriese did, there's a great sign surely of certainly of
of of promise of execution, perhaps not. I think with

(01:24:05):
that weich probably move on to our final team that
we have Ferrari in the mix. They stayed in the mix,
is what I would say, as a very cautious member
of the scudarea of a very cautious member indeed, but
they've hit a bit of a rut at the moment

(01:24:27):
one podium in the last three races. My question for you,
Amish is will they pick off McLaren by the end
of the season in the Constructors or McLaren going to
continue to bridge that gap to Red Bull instead.

Speaker 2 (01:24:41):
Okay, here's the thing. I think. I'm disappointed in Horror's
recent performances. You know, I think it's great to see
them winning Monaco. I think that was the that's going
to be the best thing that happened to them this season.
Unfortunately to say so, because as much as it's great,
you know, we're not gonna We're not going to see

(01:25:02):
that again, I don't think. And that's the sad thing
because it sort of brought us that, especially forri fans,
even even other fans. It brought a sense of hope
to everyone that they were going to be back at it,
similar to twenty twenty two. That season, you know, winning

(01:25:23):
the first what two races, but two races in the
first four or five, I don't know, they won. They
won at the beginning, right, and that brought the folk
see a lot of hope, and I think this is
a similar situation where Color Science wins in Australia and

(01:25:43):
Shadow Clair wins in Monitor and their performances after that
just haven't been there. And I think I'm sure you
could agree that we need to see that back again.
But Fri, like the back marketing, they're just so inconsistent,
and I don't know, it's just something that you have

(01:26:06):
to accept. I guess the unpredictability, it's sort of what
makes it interesting and keeps you on your feet without
hope because you never know. And it seems like Ferrari
it's never going to give up on them because of
their history. Right if it was any other team, they'd
they have a short stint of success, but then they'd

(01:26:27):
fail to follow up on it. You sort of would
give up on them, I guess. I think in all honesty,
if that was, like if you're not a truly loyal fan,
I guess you could say that and you sort of
give up on them. Sort Of going on a rant here,
but I'm sad that Ferrari aren't following up on their successes.

(01:26:49):
I hope they do, and I hope they make some
upgrades whenever, as long as it's before the end of
the season. But to answer your question, A sorry I'm
rambling up. I don't think that Ferrari will catch up,
and I think they're definitely under threat from the people
behind the Mercedes. Look at what we just spoke about

(01:27:11):
about Mercedes, their their wins and their podiums. That's definitely
going to catch up. Even though they are a substantial
amount of points behind Ferrari, the rate that they are
going is catching up. I think the trajectory is pulling.
Ferrari's being pulled behind by Mercedes, and Mercedes sort of

(01:27:37):
snatched their momentum and use their own as well to
sort of launch them up there.

Speaker 1 (01:27:44):
That is Bob. I mean, Leclaire's been bloody consistent. I mean,
you know, third in the championship, ten points ahead of Pastre,
twenty two behind Norris. He's definitely not got a shot
at the title, one hundred points back from Max, but

(01:28:06):
I could see him closing the gap to Norris. I
just don't think it's possible. I think that the Ferraris
are currently in the position where they had a great
start to thee They are a pretty decent start to
the season. They're riding the wave of consistency, but I
don't know if they can execute in the way they
wanted to. They've already dropped behind McLaren in the in
the constructors, and I don't see them getting back on

(01:28:29):
the horse. To be honest with you, I think it's
just going to need some reevaluation at the end of
the season, going to need some changes perhaps in the car.
I don't I think that. I think the lineup next
year is quality. I just think they need to now
really start minimizing their mistakes as we move into a
new era.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
And perhaps they've.

Speaker 1 (01:28:54):
Got you know, they've come back from the darkest period
of time games in the history of Ferrari fandom in
twenty twenty and they've.

Speaker 2 (01:29:05):
Got arguably the two best drivers on the grid. If
you ignore Max the staff.

Speaker 1 (01:29:09):
And if you completely the massive gaping the hole the
mast Stappen Fils, then yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
They Yeah. On paper they look like domination. In the future,
they look like they will be winning everything. It's all
the matter of maybe it's the Bonto what did what
did he do to the team? What has he left
them in? But I think fred la He's got a

(01:29:39):
lot of a lot of pressure on his back because
he came in with when f was shambles, you know,
Mati Bonotto he left, and then big boy, Big Fred
he came. You know, I don't know he came.

Speaker 1 (01:29:59):
Happened Caesar esk he came, he saw he conquered. Let's hope. Okay,
last thing amas before we rand off here, give me
one prediction going into the give me give me your
predictions for the podium for the Dutch Grand.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Prix, the Dutch Grand Prix. Okay, this is what Yeah,
this is the best, the best part of the pod,
the predictions dutche crand Prix. I'm gonna go Max that
from P one, Landon r S P two and Lewis
Hamilton P three. Actually no, I forgot about Mercedes. Uh

(01:30:34):
it's either P three will either be Charles the Player
or Oscar Pastre. And then if I am going to
go past the podium, I'll say a Mercedes P four.

Speaker 1 (01:30:47):
Okay, what's your boat? Give me one bolt prediction.

Speaker 2 (01:30:52):
Bold prediction. O. I'm gonna go less mainstream and go
down to the back and say uh a logan sergeant
points finish. Actually, let's let's be let's be a bit
more realistic. I'm gonna say, I'm going to say a

(01:31:14):
kick points finish.

Speaker 1 (01:31:17):
Okay, fair enough, okay, fair enough, fair enough, m okay.
I think I'm going to go for I think Maxi
Stappen is not on a good streak at the moment.
I think he takes it in. I think he takes it.
I think Oscar will take it. Oscar Piastre is a

(01:31:39):
close second. And I'm gonna say Carlo Science gets back
on the podium.

Speaker 2 (01:31:50):
Fair enough. That's that's valid, I can I can see that.

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
I'm also going to go down the field a little
bit for my bold prediction, and I'm going to say
I think I think that Alpine is going to have
at least two points coming out of this, coming out
of this, this Dutch Grand Prix. They've performed decent at
the slower the slower end of the circuits. It's not

(01:32:18):
the slowest. It's a complex track. It's a weird track
to pin down.

Speaker 2 (01:32:22):
I think that are you saying a double points finish
or to actual.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
At least to so either p tens, sorry, at least
two I'm saying at least to what am I on?
Two p tens?

Speaker 2 (01:32:35):
That's that's not very bold. I think you need to
give up a bit more, a bit more there.

Speaker 1 (01:32:43):
Well, a bit more popping two points? I mean what
they've ten points?

Speaker 2 (01:32:48):
Eleven?

Speaker 1 (01:32:50):
Okay, fine, fine, you want me to be bold, how
about four points? I'll say I'll say that.

Speaker 2 (01:32:55):
Okay, that's fine. That's a soil, that's a mental rel Okay,
that's very very.

Speaker 1 (01:33:03):
A crazy prediction. Fine.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
There we have it, folks.

Speaker 1 (01:33:08):
There we have it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:09):
That predictions for prediction.

Speaker 1 (01:33:12):
Who prediction with that bold prediction? Whole New World this
week on New World, The Whole New World Formula one
that's gone.

Speaker 2 (01:33:22):
Never kay, Italy, thanks very much for listening to everyone.
The next episode.

Speaker 5 (01:33:28):
Cota Mexico South Paolo las Vegas Guitar and Abou Dabby
the absolutely saucy I'm ready for.

Speaker 1 (01:33:39):
It, You're ready for it, We're all ready for it.
F one isn't real.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
I'm ready for it.

Speaker 1 (01:33:43):
Let's go, let's go. Thank you for listening, Thank you,
Thank you very much. Never Loves Growing pri Here you come.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
Yeah,