FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Ron Meyer

Tonight, author, researcher, and film maker Ron Meyer joins us to talk about: Jesus had an NDE... and so much more!!!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:33):
This Hope Radio for the Nazis headline of this July eighth,
nineteen forty seven, the Yauni Airport has announced that applying there.

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Has been found and there's now in the possession of
the Arda.

Speaker 3 (00:45):
The game is really changed, the game Game Changer.

Speaker 4 (00:49):
I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would
vanish if we were facing an alien thread from outside.

Speaker 3 (01:05):
This is Day to Black. It's your host, Jimmy Church
on the Game Changer Radio Network. All right, good evening.
How you doing Fade to Black? Today is Tuesday, July one,
two thousand and twenty five. Let's do this Mayenna. Did

(01:26):
I say I'm your host? Jummy Church? Of course I
did this week on Fade to Black. Last night we
did our Peru and Bolivia recap show. I just got back. Tonight,
Ron Meyer is with us. We're gonna be talking about
Jesus had an NDE, that and much more tonight Tomorrow night,
Lance high Tower is here, dog Man in the US

(01:47):
of A. Then Thursday night, Eric Wargo joins us, we're
gonna be talking about pre cog, precognition, dreams, time travel,
connection to UFOs, all of that and much more. On
Thursday night. Now, I have just one major event coming up.
It's at the end of this month. It is these
PSI Games August first through the third, twenty twenty five

(02:12):
in Charlotteville, Virginia. I am a game show host for
the Psychic Olympics out there in Virginia. The links for
that are below. You can check out everybody that is speaking,
the games, the competition, and the full schedule, and of
course tickets right there in Charlotteville, Virginia. All right, well,

(02:35):
I'm going to start off with this tonight. I have
had my own nd experiences happened to me when I
was twenty years old. I've talked about it many times
over the years on this very program. And because of

(02:55):
that and my experiences and what I went through, my
interest in this subject is complete. It is never ending.
I look at every When I say complete, I look
at every angle and every aspect. As you know, I
have interviewed so many experiencers around the subject of NDEs

(03:21):
and have compared their experience and stories with my own
and connecting the dots. Not everything is the same, and
I don't believe that everybody's end is the same, but
there are a lot of similarities. This conversation tonight with
Ron Meyer is going to do all of that, and

(03:44):
I hope to get into the deep philosophical and existential
sides of NDEs and what is going on. The show
tonight is called Jesus had an nd Yeah, which means
we can just about go wherever we need to go.
We are going to do that tonight. I'm very excited

(04:07):
about this conversation because consciousness, of course, we've got faith,
we've got technology, we've got artificial intelligence. Everything will roll
into this tonight. Ron is a peer reviewed scientist with
the mind of a philosopher and the heart of a mystic.
We're going to be doing all of that tonight. I'm

(04:29):
very excited. His links are below. Also in our chat,
I've got the links up and the moderators to three
of Ron's films. They are there. You can check those
out and we will again post those links throughout the
show tonight. I would like to welcome for the first

(04:49):
time to Fade the Black Ron Meyern. He's right there
from Boulder, Colorado. Ron, Good evening, young man.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
How you doing now, I'm not the young man, you're
the young man.

Speaker 5 (04:59):
Good evening to you.

Speaker 3 (05:00):
You know I have really good facial products that I use. Yeah,
you and I. You and I are about the same age.
You know. I had a conversation with somebody earlier today
about age and what. We'll move on to the show
here in a second. But he's going through some stuff.

(05:21):
He's back with his family on the East Coast, and
he gave me a list of things that he's dealing
with in his family, and yeah, sucks. But you know
what my answer to him was, and I made him laugh.
I said, man, it's just part of getting old. It's older.
It's the experiences that we grow through. And I know

(05:43):
that doesn't help, but we don't necessarily go through all
of this when we are younger, and this is why
we are so smart. And he laughed, And that's really
isn't Is that kind of the best way to look
at it. You're asking me, Yeah, you're all You got
me by two years, So I'm going to ask the older,

(06:05):
wiser gentleman.

Speaker 2 (06:08):
So I don't really think of it that way. I
think it's just another stage of life. In fact, in
some ways it's much more peaceful. I don't have to
worry about the future, and the way I used to,
so it's more comfortable there. And if you got the means,
I can do the sort of things I want to do,

(06:28):
just like you.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
Sure, sure, sure, you're right. Though. There is something about
this stage in life where it is less stressful.

Speaker 2 (06:43):
There's a letting go. Yeah yeah, and letting go is
the answer to awareness and you know, kind of enlightenment
if you want to go that far. It's all the
process of letting go. I'm not getting more because when
I was young, I always wanted to get more.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
Now, now, before we move on, you get Ron the
first time guest disclaimer, which the next time you're on
the show with me, you're not going to get it,
but you're going to get it now. And the disclaimer
is this Ron, It's just you and I sitting on
my couch having a conversation as friends. And where the
conversation starts, it starts, where it ends, it ends. But

(07:21):
we're going to end as friends. Now you have to
accept so we can move on. Except yeah, see that's
part of getting older. Yeah, less stressful. Yeah, yeah, exactly,
exactly perfect. I want to start I want to start
here with a basic foundation on a few things, and uh,

(07:46):
the biggest one of the biggest questions, right, the biggest
non trivial question out there is where we're going to start.
Very important for this show. Consciousness is consciousness physical or
non physic non physical.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
Why, it's the space in which all, in my point
of view, experiences occur. And it's you know, use the
analogy of the mirror. The mirror reflects anything that comes before,
whether it's good, bad, evil, And so as a matter

(08:23):
of experience, where's that experience occurring? It occurs in a
space I might call it the big space. You know,
doing meditation, mindful meditation, you can notice there are sounds
that arise in it. There are feelings in your body,
you know, little tweaks and everything. Emotions arise, sounds, I say,

(08:49):
sounds arise, smells arise, and then of course thoughts all
arise in that same space, and it contains all of those.
That space is the space of where everything can occur.
And to a large extent, if you pay attention, you
probably don't have much control over it all the time,

(09:11):
especially the thoughts. They just show up. But they're not
cognitive because for example, if I'm having this thought right now,
you could say hey, and I would stop and I
wouldn't need to put the end, they wouldn't push you away,
so that that space is undefined. Talking about near death experiences,

(09:33):
have you heard of the void in your conversation? The
black the black.

Speaker 3 (09:36):
Light, of course, And so.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
I've had two of those, mister Coba, not near death,
and and on the second one that was also the
space of well potential. Everything arose out of that. I
was and it's hard to talk about, but I wasn't there.
There was just empty. That's an infinite potential. And I

(10:02):
think that's the source of it's all. And I think
that's consciousness one way or another, chopped up between us all.

Speaker 3 (10:10):
We're going to circle back to this question, but it's
fundamental with what you're mentioning right now. Dark matter, dark energy,
these two things that science is desperately trying is seeking out,
trying to find. And it seems to me they get

(10:33):
to those answers that dark energy maybe consciousness, and that
is what is driving and connecting the universe. Of course,
I think we can all agree that's what consciousness is.
But they are going after this dark energy, which may

(10:53):
turn out in the end to be consciousness, and they've
never been able to discuss it. I wanted to discuss it.
It's hard to measure and pinpoint and because of that,
in their pursuit of dark energy, is it possible that
dark energy is consciousness? And when that discovery gets made,

(11:16):
it's the next stage in human evolution.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know, I haven't heard that hypothesis. Can you say
a little bit more about it?

Speaker 3 (11:24):
It's my that's because it's my hypothesis. Yeah, but I
think about this a lot and one of the reasons
why I've come to that conclusion. And I'm gonna throw
this back at you because you're the scientist, but this
is where my brain works really weird at night and

(11:44):
I'll be lying in bed in the dark and something happens.
And in studying physics and the comments that are made
from physicists over the years and currently about how thought continues, okay, thought,

(12:05):
and they talk about you know, Bozeman's brain and these
these concepts. But if thought and entropy, you know, and
thinking and thinking and thought continue, it consumes energy. It's
second law of thermi dynamics. But if that is indeed
the case, they are talking about consciousness without saying the

(12:27):
C word because they don't like to do that do
they They don't. It's the red line for most physicists
and scientists. But if that is the case, and thought
is energy and thinking is energy out there in the
universe consuming energy to continue thought and thinking, well maybe

(12:50):
that is the dark energy that is driving and connecting
the universe. And maybe they're talking they're in pursuit of
the same thing. And that was this this idea that
popped in my head.

Speaker 5 (13:04):
And I see, I see it.

Speaker 2 (13:08):
Do you see it as a creative force?

Speaker 3 (13:10):
I do? I do? I do. And when it's all
said and done, a few trillion years from now, right,
when uh everything falls apart, Uh, that's what's going to
be left consciousness. You know, all the physical things may

(13:30):
pull apart, but it'll be consciousness. And then another universe
will start, maybe another big bang, something else will happen.
And that's where our consciousness came from, was the leftovers
from a previous universe. That's my take, and that's the creator,
you know. And if that okay, let me throw one

(13:51):
other idea out and I want to get your comments
on this. Forever is a long time, right, Forever is
a long time. It goes back, it's infinite. And so
if consciousness has always been there, then it's gotten really
really smart, and that could be the creator. That could

(14:17):
be the creation of everything, and that's why it's been
learning for forever, for an infinite amount of time. That's
my take. What do you think of that? Could the
creator just be consciousness existing forever?

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Well, that kind of corresponds to what I was saying
about the dark energy the infinite potential. But at the
same time you've probably heard this from the people you've
interviewed on their death experiences that have them, is that
that's you too, and that's me too. We're not separate
from that. Maybe our bodies will dissolve, but in a

(14:57):
more fundamental way where the too, you can't because we're
we have consciousness. So I do in your behaving like
you do, so I don't. I think if we accept that,
you have to accept what I just said, that's us too.
We're part of that breathing into existence, the manifest the

(15:21):
world and co creating. That's something you can stand back
as a third person and analyze because you're in they're
in it.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, fish hasn't.

Speaker 2 (15:35):
Nort Water is simple analogy.

Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, I love that analogy and when people ask me
about consciousness, and I know I don't want to be
cavalier or sound juvenile with my response, but it's really true.
It applies to everything you want to know what consciousness is.
Consciousness is when you bite into the perfect life of

(16:00):
pizza and the joy, the warmth, the happiness, all of
these emotions that come out of that. How complex is that?
And it's the same thing when you see the birth
of a child or the same thing. You know all
these when and to have that, I don't know if

(16:24):
a rock has that. I don't know. I don't know
if other animate objects have feelings like that. But happiness, sadness, joy,
that's consciousness and we experience it all day long. And
that is if I need to know that it is real.

(16:46):
You experience that, and so does a physicist. The atheist,
non spiritual, right pragmatic, black and white scientists that doesn't
believe in anything except for numbers, still experience is joy, happiness,
and sadness. They have consciousness. And that's my take and
I'm going to stick by.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
It, okay, or do you want me to rebut you
a bit?

Speaker 3 (17:11):
I know I would love for you to rebut me.
Can you.

Speaker 2 (17:16):
Yeah, So all these things you mentioned, the joy and
all that those are all occurring in consciousness in the
space I talked about, including the sense that you're experiencing them,
or the scientists, they're occurring in consciousness. The only way
that you know that is because you're conscious. But consciousness

(17:38):
itself is empty in its own sense. It's not defined
the way I look at it, and every thought that
you have about it, the only way you know about
it is because you've become conscious of it.

Speaker 3 (17:54):
Isn't that? Why is it that science wants to these
fundamental concepts of what consciousness is.

Speaker 2 (18:05):
That's how they get grants. That's how they get grants.
You know, I've interviewed as many people as you have,
probably more in the educational vein sure. So I've done
a lot of educational videos, and you know, they're strictly materialistic.
You know, they believe everything is all set already back

(18:25):
at the Big Bang. And then I'll say, well, what
do you really believe? And none of them believe it.
I'm just afraid to talk about it because they've all
had their experiences. Let's say that that worldview doesn't quite
work all the time. So but you know, in order
to get grants, you have to do that. I don't

(18:47):
know if you've ever been in the business of being
in a lab. I was in a lab for a while.
You get to these big grants and then you can
I don't, but you know the guy who had the grant,
but do all sorts of things with the money. That's
the way they get works, and that's that's where the
real innovation takes place. And then the government comes by
and everybody stands up like little soldiers and says, yeah,

(19:08):
we're this was the purpose here we are is our results.
But it's really the other stuff that they're doing, and
everybody knows that's the game they're playing, and they have
to play.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
What do you make of? And then we're going to
swing this over to Jesus really quick? What do you miss?

Speaker 2 (19:27):
Everybody? Right?

Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yeah, well eventually it does, doesn't it? What do you
make of free will? And then the determined side of things,
where these hardcore scientists and physicists are in such a
determined existence that everything that there is no free will

(19:54):
it there's I agree with that in a weird way,
that this math and particles are going to do what
they're going to do, and eventually everything is going to
happen the way it's going to happen. But I still
would like to think that I'm making my own decision
between a vanilla and a chocolate shake. What do you

(20:17):
make of that? Are we in a determined existence? Or
is free will a thing?

Speaker 2 (20:24):
So, in my opinion, which is probably not the normal opinion,
I think free will is on a scale that some
people have more free will than others. Probably never heard
that before, right.

Speaker 3 (20:39):
Now, No, how so that's interesting.

Speaker 2 (20:43):
Well, if you're you know, a poor person living, should
we say, in some African country or some ghetto in
this country, there's very little free will. You don't have
a lot of choice. But people like you and I,
we have a lot of free will, not only because
of our physical circumstances, but because of let's say, the

(21:08):
kind of experiences we've been talking about. They open things
up for us and we can become creative. That's the
pinnacle of free will, creating something new, which is kind
of what I think we're about ultimately, And I think
that's on a scale. So, yes, there's free will, but

(21:28):
not everybody has as much as anybody else. What was
the second part of your question, Well, because its optimistic.
I think that's so right now. Even the basic concept
of energy loss, you know, the second law of thermodynamics
that was based on the idea of a steam machine.

(21:50):
You know, we're not machines. That's all based on machines.
We have living parts. You're alive. I'm alive, you know,
we have a lot of cells that are alive. Having
a multi dimensional scaled up and so on. So it's
just the wrong metaphor second long thermodynamics is falling away.

(22:11):
I mean, the original scientific model was a clock, which
is everything's determined right tick. It's a machine again, So
you know, we need a different, different model of what
we are and how the universe operates doesn't operate like
a clock or a steam engine. It operates more like
a living system, maybe a living spiritual system. Does that

(22:35):
make sense to you?

Speaker 3 (22:36):
It does, It does. And if science keeps doing what
they're doing, the string theory, dimensions eleven dimensions or more dimensions,
the multiverse, many worlds, parallel worlds, certainly, quantum mechanics and
quantum computers, all of that is pushing towards a reality

(23:02):
that exists around us that we can't see. And that's
exactly what so many in our community have talked about
for millennia, and it seems like science is pushing us
towards that as well, that there's something else out there
that we don't understand right now in this living version

(23:25):
of us. Is science getting closer to talking about NDEs
and life after death and something else out there that
exists outside of our reality?

Speaker 2 (23:39):
Oh yeah, for sure. That's been my experience with many
people I've interviewed. Yeah, so, you know, a consensus science
is one thing, you know, the peer reviewed paper system
and all that. Usually when the research is done, it's
reviewed and then it gets out there. They say, it

(24:02):
usually takes twenty five years for whatever, if it's good,
to get assimulated into kind of a public view. So
it's very slow the process. But you know, the scientific
method is something different than science, you know, consensus science.
You know, consensus science is spelled out in textbooks where

(24:24):
most people will say, there's a lot of mistakes in
these areas, things just aren't true. But it creates a
worldview that forces a lot of people, especially when they're young,
to take things off the table because they think stuff
in the textbooks is the authority. But you know, there's
a lot of a lot of people doing a lot

(24:44):
of things that I come across that are that are
going against that. Now they understand that that's pretty much
all bullshit. Can I say bullshit on?

Speaker 3 (24:52):
Of course it's my favorite word.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
Yeah, because that makes sense.

Speaker 3 (24:59):
It does? It does.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
It's a human enterprise, you know in a way that
it has a lot of the issues and problems that
all experience has, and it's played like a zero sum
game just to a large extent, like we operate out
of scarcity. And even these scientists, you know, getting their
grants for them which is their lifeblood. If you get

(25:26):
them for something else, they won't get it for their thing.
So there's this weird kind of competition. And I know
that because I was in the system for a while
before I got into media.

Speaker 3 (25:38):
When we look at Jesus and the resurrection, is that
does that fit the classic definition of ND or it doesn't?
Does it?

Speaker 2 (25:56):
No? So unfortunately, you know, I have a co author
on the book right and he's up in Canada right now.
He's a historian. So there's two events that are important
in the Bible. The one that where Jesus probably had
his near death experience, was one after John the Baptist

(26:17):
and market tell us much better than I could. He
went onto the desert for forty days and he went
into a cave and he came out enlightened and began
his teaching. That was that was the time of the
near death experience, his crucifiation. When he was crucified, it
was because his teachings were so weird, saying you you

(26:41):
can have the experienced direct experience of God like I
had during my near death experience, like you had the
unconditional love, and that was blasphemy and he was crucified
for that. But that's not his NDE. That's just his death.
You know, where's the real event was in the desert.

(27:03):
Does that make sense to you?

Speaker 3 (27:04):
It does? Did you know we're going to stay on Jesus.
But Da Vinci went through the same thing.

Speaker 2 (27:14):
A lot of people did. They just didn't have to
talk about it. They're called mystical experiences.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Right right. Da Vinci would would go to a cave
when he was a kid and hang out there and
then come out with these crazy ideas, and you know,
and you have to just go back and ask yourself
what was going on there and what did he access

(27:41):
and how did he do it? Well, he wasn't the
only person to do it in that fashion. We have
many examples of that over time, don't we.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
Yeah, And some of them are playing out right now.
Like one of my teachers and teachers worked for Steve
jobs early on and the way he got hired. They
both had gone to India, had experience with the kind
of guru and they sat down from each other and

(28:12):
looked at each other street in the eye for an
hour and Steve said to Edward, you're hired. But he
also told Edward that he got a download of information
and an older state experience of the cell phone, and
from that, you know, that was he then knew what
he had to create and he just did. So that's

(28:35):
as part of the basis of the book. We're talking
about how there's this group of people out there Muslims
says successful scientists who've had these experiences, downloads of information
and I bring into fruition, but they don't talk about it.
Jock Bela is probably the best known one. Ha's come
out says, I was a part of that group. These

(29:01):
it's not just starting religions. You can get technology and
other insights that you can turn into music like you did,
or or you know, literature or poems, or a religion
like Mohammad and in Buddha. They were all having the

(29:22):
same kinds of experiences from what I can read, But
again I'm not the historian.

Speaker 3 (29:27):
I just got back from Peru and there's a site
there that is not popular like Machu Pichu and stuff.
It's called Naupa Aglacia, and that's a that's a modern
name for it, but it's called Naupa and it's a
cave on the top of this mountain.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (29:50):
It's a hike, but when you get to this cave,
it's as spiritual as the day is long. It's incredible.
But anyway, it's a megalithic cave. It's it's ancient, and
it's got a cool shape to it. But anyway, you
hike up the mountain and when you enter the cave.
At the front of the cave is this giant piece
of black granite that is probably twenty feet wide maybe

(30:13):
six to eight feet tall, and it's kind of a
half dome shape, but carved into it are three seats, okay,
and it's obviously for a ritual or some kind of process.
But then over on another wall carved into this granite,

(30:34):
and it's incredible. It's just to see the workmanship. It's
very old, it's megalithic. Is another portal type seat that's
carved into the wall. And now my question is, when
I go into a site like that, what was it

(30:57):
that the ancients knew and were What was the purpose
of these seats and these portals in this cave? And
I can only imagine what it was like in the past.
The cave itself has sealed off. You can no longer
go deep into the cave, but there are stories behind

(31:18):
that too as well. Do you think that the ancients
did have the ability to get into another dimension and
understand the process of getting.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
There, Probably a few, as they do now. I don't
think it was something special to the agents right at all.
I think it's happening right now as I was saying
same phenomena. Probably talked about it differently because they're in
different cultures. I think that for sure. I think that's true.
That's been my experience. There are places now where you

(31:54):
can travel to in the pilgrimage and have an altered
state experience. Fact I kind of created one at one time.

Speaker 5 (32:02):
How people how, Yeah, it's a story.

Speaker 3 (32:07):
Do you worry, Yeah, let's go, let's go, let's go.
I need to learn from.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
You, so you know, I have some connection with the
big community. I was hired to do a series on
Bigfoot back around when he's fifteen or something by an
information company, you know, that specializes in that kind of stuff.

(32:33):
And I got the idea that yes, people were having
real experiences, you know, when they saw Bigfoot. But I
couldn't believe it was a Harry Beast. I thought it was.
One person said to me, I think it's something inter dimensional.
And so that set me on a course of talking

(32:53):
in the up, talking to you right now. Anyhow, I
met my son in law, married daughter, and he puts
on this Bigfoot weekend in Bailey, Colorado, up in the
mountains and people come and they have experienced experiences from
Thursday through Sunday. And I decided I would do a

(33:17):
meditation with a group, and earlier in the day I
get these synchronicities. There was a woman I was giving
her a DVD at the that set this old resort
from the turn of the twentieth century, it's been turned
into this lovely place to visit now, and it was
something I had done. And she said, oh, can I

(33:40):
tell you about my abduction when I was a teenager?
So I said sure, and she didn't. Then she said,
I want to show you something else, and she came
over and showed me this tree. She says, this is
a sacred prayer tree of the youth Indians. And she
told me here's the places where they were coming get medicine.

(34:01):
And there was this weird kind of configuration that they
had modified it like a bonze eye. The culture called
culturally modified trees, and some shamming from the youth nation
verified it. So that's so I'd had experience with people

(34:22):
touching trees, you know, and feeling energy. Maybe you've heard
of that kind of thing. So this group, I did
the meditation and I said, would you like to all
come over now and touch this tree? Do it in
small groups, and everybody did, and they all had many
had really good experiences, things they'd never experienced before. And

(34:44):
then my son in law and I said, well we
should go do that, you know, why not everybody else
had wandered off. And so I have my anime trees
and my eyes are closed and Allen has his one
eye open up and there's a damn big standing behind him.
What It's not hairy beast. It's a shadow figure with

(35:06):
kind of an orangish color. Okay, I don't and I'm
you know, my brain how your brain when you see
these things is trying to make sense of it? And
Alan was kind of waffling in and out, kind of
liking Star Trek when they beat people up. And finally
I said to Alan, you know there's a creature behind you.

(35:28):
He said, yes, I know. I felt it come up.
So we've we then made a little movie about that
where people had similar experiences and so on, and people
have seen the movie and people now come and see
the tree and have their own experiences. Has become like

(35:49):
a sacred sight.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
I love that. But you're a scientist. Did did do
you start to work through why this happened and how
it happened?

Speaker 2 (36:05):
I do, but I don't get a lot of answers.
You know, I think I'm not supposed to really figure
it out right now.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Isn't that strange? Isn't that strange?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
It's goddamn strange strange.

Speaker 3 (36:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll tell you why it's
strange in my very humble opinion, maybe just maybe there's
things that we're just not meant to figure out yet. Everything.
There's so many yeah, yeah, so many things are just

(36:40):
right beyond proof, right, just a step away, whether it's
a photograph of video, an experience, something tangible, an explanation,
a chemical process, uh, measurement, mathematics, whatever it is, right,
it's just one step away from that. And because we're

(37:08):
just not ready for it, maybe that's it.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Or right now, it's part of the plan, if I
could say that for us to become more accepting of
this weird stuff to because I think we have blinders
on that are you know, from our language, our culture,
and we can't see all these things. I'm just using
seeing as a metaphor. So this kind of opens us

(37:35):
up to more of these and gradually they're accumulating as
more people and finally they're talking to each other, even
the scientists people, because you have to make comparisons and
see look for similarities and differences. So I think it's
a process that's happening right now.

Speaker 3 (37:54):
There is there's another element to it, I believe, which
is having science, because science is what keeps me sane.
All right, I've done too much wu I've seen too
much stuff. I've experienced too much stuff. But the only

(38:17):
thing that keeps me from jumping in the deep end
of the pool is going back to science and seeing
what science has to say about these things. And here's
where we are I think today is our understanding of
frequencies of dimensions. The word interdimensional now is so frequent

(38:39):
in these conversations where it wasn't used thirty forty fifty
years ago with Bigfoot or UFOs or anything like that.
Maybe in the ghost community a little bit, but not
in this world of science. But now when we see
something ron like you experiencing what you saw with Bigfoot,

(39:02):
or people out seeing something appear and disappear in the sky,
where this interdimensional conversation comes in. And that is a
part of the understanding where I think we're getting closer
to it, this interdimensional aspect, and maybe that will start
to prepare us for this absolutely supernatural phenomenon. What do

(39:26):
you think do you think that we're just getting smarter
and then we'll be able to grasp it.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I think you know, it's part of the shift in
the paradigm of what's possible certainly away from the two
previously accepted models, the clockwork and the steam engine. I
think it's slowly building and it has to, you know,
stabilize itself a lot more so. It's part of the

(39:53):
language that's being tossed about that. But I don't think
it's the final story. I think it's more like the
paradigm has to be more like parts made up of
intelligences in some way that's living with its own multi
level goals. It has to be a world of goals,

(40:15):
and goals lead to creativity and imagination, that new paradigm
of the universe of which we are in. Because people
put them Scientists put themselves in their own model of
the clock and the steam engine, like I'm a steam engine.
I just when the steam engine falls apart, I fall apart.

(40:36):
So it applies to them, which is a very kind
of disheartening thing for a lot of young people with
that were viewed. It makes it sound very meaningless and
so on. So that's the danger of it, and I
think the part that's terrible about it. We need a
much better paradigm coming from science that will allow us

(40:59):
to flourish better.

Speaker 3 (41:00):
Perhaps you were when you were with your son and
had that spiritual experience with the tree and then seeing
something you've described as Bigfoot two thousand years ago during
the period of the Resurrection, when Jesus was walking around
doing his thing with his disciples and John the Baptist

(41:23):
and what have you. Those same experiences came from a
different mindset, and so if they had the same experience,
it would be angels right, or the devil or the
soul right. And that's the way that because they didn't

(41:43):
have a foundational vocabulary or an advanced understanding to apply
to it, so it always had a religious bent, don't
you think.

Speaker 2 (41:54):
I think that's right. It's what worked for them at
the time. So they all these things are still mediated
by language and culture. You and I. You know, with me,
we're stuck in it to a large degree. But as
you know, when people have near death experiences, the brain
shuts down, and then you know, extremistical experiences that model

(42:20):
diminishes in a more truthful representation or experience, what's the
real occurs. But then when we come back, you know,
we don't quite have the language for it.

Speaker 3 (42:33):
No, not at all, not at all. The the partial
explanation from scientists that haven't had a near death experience.
But they read about it, or they hear about it,
they jump into the skeptical car and they'll just, ah,

(42:53):
it's adrenaline. A, it's the brain shutting down with lack
of oxygen, that imagination, ah to memories getting released. You know.
They try to explain it away, don't they.

Speaker 2 (43:09):
This is true for sure. But whether they believe it
or not, I don't know.

Speaker 3 (43:15):
Oh, they believe it when the plane is going down.
Oh they believe it that. Oh, they're very spiritual when
the shit's about to hit the fan. But until then
they just want to be a skeptic or debunker.

Speaker 2 (43:32):
So, you know, a lot of them, I ask them
usually I started doing this, what's the strangest thing that
ever happened to you? And they usually have something to say.
For sure, when I was five years old, there was
something bouncing around in my bedroom. You'll get that out
of them.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's really funny
where they there'll be a debunker and a skeptic, but
they won't go into a haunted house.

Speaker 2 (44:02):
Yeah, there you go.

Speaker 3 (44:03):
Yeah, you know what I mean. It's really funny. What
is let's walk through this. What is the Prometheus Project.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
The Prometheus Project is is a fictional group of people
in the novel that have learned how to use near
death experiences in a controlled way to get these downloads
or these experiences. And another thing that comes out of
near death experience are new skills. Some a lot of

(44:37):
size skills, you know, precog telepathy. My old one is synchronicities,
and I got a couple others. I don't talk about
much why, and so they're getting better at it over time.
They figured it out. There there was a place in

(44:58):
Greece called Little Lucian and Lucium are pronouncing it correctly.
We're all the greats of the Roman culture, of the
journal of the Greek culture. We go to this place
north of Athens, and they would do it as sort
of a pilgrimage, and they would go have some kind
of enlightenment experience and come back and give us everything

(45:20):
we call Western including science, math, democracy. They all went
there and had those those experiences. So it goes way back.
It's it's ancient, and that's again probably what Jesus was
doing in Muhammad had and Buddha, that they would have
this kind So jumping ahead to the future, people have

(45:42):
figured out that there's a way to induce these near
death experiences and have them controlled using a lucinogenics. And
so they've been using them largely to enhance their skills
and get these technological downloads and move technology forward. But

(46:04):
now somebody in the group has learned take them even
deeper and be more controlled, and the ideas well. They
divide into three fraction so in reality in our world
is called the invisible College. These men and women who
keep secret about their processes like this and what one

(46:27):
group says, let's keep the technology going. It's having a
good time. Another group becomes religious and says this is
sinful unless kill the whole damn thing. And the other says,
let's use it to transform humanity into something greater, a

(46:49):
higher level human, a biological perhaps technological combination that's not
controlled by the self. Other distinction, the little self weather distinction,
comes out of evolution and is that the root of
all human problems, probably at all scales scales way up

(47:09):
to the highest level and down to the interpersonal level,
to the family, to the tribal. And so the story
is about a race between these three groups. It's as
a thriller in a way to the ultimate conclusion that
takes place in Landers.

Speaker 3 (47:30):
Landers, California. We'll come back to that. You describe this
in such detail that I have to ask you, is
this truth and fact hidden as fiction?

Speaker 2 (47:47):
Yes?

Speaker 3 (47:48):
Yeah, figured figured. Okay, let's stay right here, let's stay
right here. Let's stay right here. It come closer on
your life out on the microphone because I want to.
I want to. I want to hear your answers with
the creation. And we're getting really really good at this

(48:11):
right now with the Brain computer interface the b C
I using that and using artificial intelligence, uh, and the
ability to read brain waves. Will it are they? Are
we closer to accessing all of this and and when

(48:37):
an NDE occurs that we can see it and experience
it and record the data.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
No, it doesn't work that way in my opinion.

Speaker 3 (48:51):
Well, here's here's the real.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
Danger in some ways with with AI is that and
the people who are developing and trying to figure out
the guardrails. He goes comes back to the self. Other
distinction that you know Turing, the founder of computers, Elan Turing.
Did you know that If you don't know his name,

(49:13):
I don't know, But he said you know, if you
create a superior intelligence, it'll get rid of you as
the inferior intelligence quickly, quickly. And so if our self
other distinction, which is so important in the way we
function so much. You know, just look at the political
divide and all that crap that's going on. It's all

(49:35):
based on the self other. If I saw you as
the same as me, well I would treat you like
me and at every scale. And so the one of
the greatest fears is that these artificial intelligences will develop
because it's based a lot on our data that the

(49:58):
game to be played as a self eather distinction. There
we are the other.

Speaker 3 (50:07):
There is there is a metaphor that's played out there
when it comes to AI that is scary, but also
it's a good thought experiment. But you go and you
ask artificial intelligence, an AGI level system, to get rid

(50:30):
of the world's pollution.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Right, yeah, I know where you're going.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
Yeah, and it kills all humans because we cause the pollution. Now,
it doesn't know you just said, you asked right to
get rid of pollution, and it does. It doesn't care
about humans. It's superior to us. So you want to
get rid of pollution. We'll do it. You got to
get rid of you and there's no pollution. That's that's

(51:01):
what you're talking about, were.

Speaker 5 (51:03):
They, uh version, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 (51:09):
What about the flaws though that we see today in AI,
It's not as intimidating sometimes as we think it is.
Where AI likes to make shit up as fact. Uh
makes a lot of mistakes outright lies in some cases.
The famous thing that happened a couple of weeks ago

(51:32):
was an article that was written, Uh, I think it's
the Chicago Sun Times Chicago Truth the ten best books
to read this summer. Did you see that article?

Speaker 2 (51:47):
I did not. I mean I saw that somebody had.
I saw it on my news feed, but I didn't
go any It's hilarious.

Speaker 3 (51:55):
Five of the books of the ten, five of the
books were fictional authors and fictional titles completely made up
by AI. And it was the ten best reads for
the summer.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
You know, they're getting better and they're getting smarter. One
of the interesting aspects is that you know, we do
our training. You know, did you have any kids? I
do remember when you were young and we had to
punish them or reward them, you know, the way we
trained them. But they do the same thing with AI.

(52:36):
At least the Chinese model only rewarded no punishment.

Speaker 3 (52:46):
They always AI seems to do a lot better when
it's punished or rewarded.

Speaker 2 (52:53):
Correct, they just had rewards. There was no punishment. You know,
we spend all our training of our kids, you know,
probably dealing out more punishment than rewards. Don't do this,
don't do that, you know, negative negative, negative. Wonder they
hate us when we get when they become teenagers.

Speaker 3 (53:10):
Now, I've seen a couple of movies lately and and
and a couple of books that I've read lately about
the sport of an artificially induced NDE and people going
through this and going through the experience and then coming
back out of it for enlightenment. Is that is that?

(53:36):
How do I Is that something that's real? Or is
I mean, are people actually doing this? And I've read
I've read the you know, like known people doing this
and I don't know if they're making it up? Is
this something that is? This? Is? Does this actually go on?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Well? You know there are meditative and you're familiar with that.

Speaker 3 (54:02):
Well, I think that I do do that. Let's let's well, okay,
what what what is a meditative nd.

Speaker 2 (54:11):
It's a procedure developed largely by Scott Taylor. Have you
ever had him on?

Speaker 3 (54:16):
I have not.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I don't think from the Monroe Institute, I might. You'll
take people into a kind of a transpace.

Speaker 3 (54:23):
Man, I don't want to feel bad. Hey, Bill, have
I had Scott Taylor on the show? He's gonna go? Yeah,
last month? Watch this? Ah, too many shows, ron, too
many shows. I don't know. It's going to pop up
here in the chat here in a second, somebody look
that up for me. Scott Taylor, Monroe.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
You know Michelle knows him quite well. If you want
to get him on, you can talk about this quite clearly.

Speaker 3 (54:50):
Then I probably have had him on. I probably have
hold on, Come on, Bill, you're slow, Okay, so hold on.
Uh Yeah, I had him on last month.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
I had him on asking the right question.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
I had him on May twelfth. I'm so embarrassed. I'm
so embarrassed. Okay. So, so back to this though, the meditative.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
NDE, according to Scott, it does work. Do you think
you can get into that altered steady? I mean I've
had I've had Mystical experiences is another form of it,

(55:45):
but it's not medical I don't think.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
Is there a chemical way to do it or is
there another way to induce?

Speaker 2 (55:52):
The genics are about a large degree probably right right,
right for sure.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
And so they they flat line, not in the meditative side,
but in a medically induced ND.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
Uh. So it's all about turning down certain processes, you know,
letting go, and that can happen in different ways. Do
There's no doubt. There's no doubt you could do that medically,
right now, yes, of course, right right?

Speaker 3 (56:23):
Bring are the experiences described in the same way?

Speaker 2 (56:29):
You mean that you can't really describe them?

Speaker 3 (56:32):
Yeah? That too, that too well?

Speaker 2 (56:34):
You know what do you think they all say? They
entwer some non physical world, right, there's there's no body
there anymore, and communication takes place, you might say, telepathically.
It's not just chatting English language usually.

Speaker 3 (56:54):
Now, if Jesus has an ND, all, right, Jesus has
an end, we have an ND. And so many people
have a religious experience with it. See God, maybe meet
some angels, the life review, heaven in hell. Right, all
of that stuff comes into play for a lot of people.

(57:15):
What's jesus NDE like? Is it religious?

Speaker 2 (57:21):
No? He had a direct experience of God the Father
and unconditional love according to the way he went and
taught right and that you two can have that, you
too are the son of God.

Speaker 3 (57:36):
With your NDE Was it religious me?

Speaker 2 (57:40):
Yeah, I've only had mystical experiences, never on the border
of clinical death.

Speaker 3 (57:50):
Okay, okay, let's take our break right here, let's get that.
In our guest tonight, Ron Meyer, we are talking about
his new book and Jesus ad an Ande. We're gonna
do all of that and much more when we come
back after this short break. Stay with us. Oh wait
a minute, hold on for a second. I've got the

(58:11):
wrong commercial queued up. I've got the right one. Now,
we'll be right back after this short break. Stay with us.

(58:41):
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Speaker 6 (01:00:30):
Today we're headed to Bolivia to Yawinaku, Peru and.

Speaker 3 (01:00:36):
Of course.

Speaker 6 (01:00:38):
Omo Punkou Ryan exciting. Thank you so much for everything,
my friend, always an honor.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Right behind us is the sacred river of the Inca
that goes past Manchu hitch you. So we're going to
be driving up to its source at fifteen thousand feet
above sea level and then down to lake to the.

Speaker 6 (01:00:55):
Kakak So today we hit fifteen thousand feet.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
Yes, and you can do it with us.

Speaker 6 (01:01:02):
All you have to do is go to Hidden Incotours
dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Simple We've got two tours coming up next year.

Speaker 6 (01:01:09):
One in June for the summer solstice, right and then
another one right here in November. So Hidney cootours dot com.
Come and hang out with Brian and I and his
amazing team right on.

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(01:01:53):
and it's doc again Rivermoonwellness dot Com. All right, welcome

(01:02:24):
back Faith to Black. I am your host see church tonight,
Ron Meyers with us Jesus had an an Dee. That
is the subject of the show tonight. We're talking about technology, AI,
faith and of course the near death experience, all of
that and much more. And we've got Ron Meyer. He's
right there.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Ron.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
What do we do with the issues between UH, faith
and technology these days? Are they ever going to emerge.

Speaker 2 (01:02:58):
To say faith?

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Faith?

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
Faith? Interesting question? So faith and belief are things that
scale you know, religion based on faith and belief scale,

(01:03:21):
so you can get quite large because you all believe
and have faith and the same thing now, experience, you know,
what you and I have talked about quite a bit
already is something that's not scalable right now. So you know,

(01:03:41):
in Christianity, after Jesus when he said everybody can have
your own experience of God like I have, that you
are too a son of God and in some way God,
that was not scalable. So the Romans turned it into
a religion and belief that you would if you had

(01:04:01):
faith in Jesus, you know, you'd be saved, but you
know you had to carry that belief around, and of
course it was political and still is in a lot
of ways. No technology is there'd be no technology if
there were no humans, at least as far as we know.

(01:04:24):
Technology is something that we create to a sequence of
steps to create a piece of technology, and it probably
went back to and objects in abundance in a way.
Right We've got a lot of cell phone, but the

(01:04:44):
number of steps involved in creating a cell phone as
enormas and so where whether we're religious, greaith based or not.
All these good old scientists that we been kind of
bad mouthing a bit, are good at creating steps of

(01:05:06):
creation and their technology. So in some sense, we're making
through technological innovation new things that are possible in the world,
and at the same time, in the universe, if you like,
other things that are not possible anymore, because base of

(01:05:27):
what's possible gets defined by what's already been done to
a large extent, because if you're going to build something
really special, you'll probably have to go through like say
the transistor stage and all that. You see that there's
that technology is something we're doing as humans. It's totally creative,

(01:05:48):
it's not spontaneous, and it's not given. And yet you know,
these scientists don't quite understand that. Does that make sense
to you? So these are very different there's some some degrees.
These are very different categories from me. Face is something
that that's scalable jones people together into a dam or

(01:06:10):
us or us against weak kind of situation, and technology
is something that humans are being used, at the very
least to create new possibilities in the universe that make
any sense to us.

Speaker 3 (01:06:25):
It just no, it does, it does. And I think
the point that you mentioned here is an extraordinary one
if there was some let's say there was some pandemic
that I understand what a cell phone is, I understand
what technology is. I do. I have a pretty good

(01:06:48):
understanding on how to run things, like most of us do.
But let's say there was some crazy disease that knocked
off all of the engineers of the world. Right, okay,
and and yeah, and and I. You and I. Right,

(01:07:10):
you're a smart guy. You and I are on an
island that's got all of the resources needed to make
a chip set and a cell phone. But that doesn't
mean you and I are building cell phones that week.
It would it would take thousands of years to get

(01:07:34):
back to manufacturing chips. I don't know how to manufacture chips.
I don't know how to write software. I don't know
how to And if we had to start back at
zero and have to go through all of those steps
that we went through to get to the point where
we are today, how long would that take? You know?

(01:07:56):
And and we lose sight of that, don't we? Today?
We take technology for granted.

Speaker 2 (01:08:03):
So an interesting metaphor is you and me, we started
out as a single cell. Do you believe that I
out right and somehow in the process of probably twenty years,
the most complex thing ever created in some ways was us.

(01:08:25):
All these different functions in our body, all these organs
knowing left from right. So a group of senses that
a brain that can somehow interface with them create a
model of ourselves in the world that can keep being
updated and getting better or getting worse, all in twenty years.

(01:08:47):
And there's no obvious designer of that sitting outside. Here's
the designer of Jimmy Church, you know that did it?

Speaker 3 (01:08:59):
When you put it that way, And I think about
it often, Ron, I go divine, I go divine, Yeah,
I go divine. The for for some dufus like Richard Dawkins, right,
and I use the word dufus adult is a better

(01:09:20):
way to define Richard Dawkins that claims to know everything
about biology and everything that there is, and he's the
smartest person in the world. He is not. And to
suggest that that single cell that develops with RNA and

(01:09:41):
DNA into these complex you know, our brains, which is
probably the craziest invention in the entire universe, that it
is just chance, right, that it's a lightning bolt that
came down and struck some amino acids on a crystal
in a creek. Bad and then DNA happened. So I

(01:10:04):
called bullshit on that man, I called bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
So there again is a case where consensus science is
way behind what most scientists know. They know that there's
not enough information in the DNA or RNA to create
us as full fledged human beings. There any any other thing,
just not there. If it helps to keep a cell running,
keep the hardware going a little bit, but you know,

(01:10:30):
the larger form, no way, they all know that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:31):
Now it's not okay, So let's stay on this. This
is where I go in the divine side, and and
I'm okay with that. In that we just retrieved soil

(01:10:53):
from the asteroid Benue, okay, two years ago. So we
go out, We launched a satellite to it a probe,
We go down, we collect it. It comes back, the
canister lands in the desert in Utah. We go out,
we collect the count. Just the technology of pulling that
off is pretty extraordinary that we achieve that. But anyway,

(01:11:14):
so we test what we dug up on this random asteroid,
and you know what, we found the twenty amino acids
that make up RNA on this asteroid. And to top
that off, we found the five proteins that make up DNA.

(01:11:38):
And proteins are complex, that's complex stuff. That's kind of
Proteins are a whole other thing. But this is on
an asteroid floating around in space. Ron You know, that's
kind of a goole.

Speaker 2 (01:11:52):
Isn't Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:11:54):
And what does that suggest to you? If the the
basics for are just on a random asteroid floating around
and surviving in the vacuum of space, what does that
tell you?

Speaker 2 (01:12:07):
I think that's all bullshit. That's just the goog. You know,
they thought they could achieve something like that. You know,
back when this guy forget his name, this experiment and
run electricity into it, you get the goo. What's missing
is the information. So let me Yeah, you've you've heard
the you know what legos are, right, and people have

(01:12:30):
built like Hogwart can speak, the Castle of Hogwarts, right,
and that one of my nephews built one of those
for his future wife. And do you think that castle
could pop into existence random? And how what's the chances
of that ever occurring? Pretty much zero?

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Right, It's still possible.

Speaker 2 (01:12:57):
But you know how many times would you flip them
in the air? And hold with cattle.

Speaker 3 (01:13:02):
Yeah, sure, I'm with you. I'm with you. But it's
probable it wouldn't happen tomorrow, but it could happen at
some point.

Speaker 2 (01:13:11):
Or maybe not or maybe not, or if you try
to do it without a set of instructions of short steps,
you build this first, and then this and so this
informational process, whatever that is, you need that information to
build that Hogwarts and information is a piece of physics

(01:13:34):
that's missing right now. And it's non physical. It's can
be carried non physical, it can be carried in physical.
Think of all the all the ways my voice is
going through different mediums to you and I have a
meeting and you're acting like you're understanding me to some degree,

(01:13:55):
and whatever that is that's carried in all these different ways,
it's called information in this way of thinking about it.
And that's at the basis of everything that goes against,
you know, the machine model of the universe, of these
consensus physicists who really don't believe it anyhow. And so

(01:14:15):
we're actively involved in technology building these things. Now, a
cell phone has so many steps built into the many parts.
So we're using parts in on our body that were
developed over half a million years ago, took that long.
Without those parts, you and I wouldn't be here. And
that's all information and steps.

Speaker 5 (01:14:38):
Well Rosie, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:14:42):
And I love this this idea. And the reason for
that is there is something intelligent that knows the process
of creating a biological entity and then having consciousness absorb

(01:15:07):
into it. Okay, that's an intelligence that I don't know.
If it's spiritual, I don't know if it's God, I
don't know what that is. But it's not just by
chance that this process can happen to the point where
you and I can have bliss, happiness, grief, sadness, and

(01:15:31):
all of these things that that happened when consciousness enters
our brains and ourselves. That that there's some intelligence behind that,
I just don't believe it's just something that happens too.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
It's the essence of who you are.

Speaker 5 (01:15:51):
You're the creator, you think, so, yeah, is that is that?

Speaker 3 (01:15:58):
Okham's razor? Is that your the simplest way to look
at it?

Speaker 2 (01:16:03):
You never thought about it that way? It makes you think, anyhow, right,
if you were the creator? Because what I'm saying is
that the biggest example that we're creators. Is that we're
doing all this technology. We're creating the technology that never
existed before, as far as we know, it has done

(01:16:26):
through a lot of steps of information.

Speaker 3 (01:16:30):
I mean, how, okay, let's stay let's stay right here.
How is it possible that we as far as I know,
it's only us. It could be another species. But how
is it possible that we can contemplate quantum mechanics? How

(01:16:51):
is it that we think about the micro and the
biggest of all the macro in the universe, that we
think about these things? Do dogs think about these things?
Do chimpanzees think about these things?

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
No? It goes back to language, creation of language. I mean,
I think dogs can kind of worry about what's going
to happen in the next ten minutes and what might happen,
you know, twenty yards in their yard, but probably not
five blocks away or two days in the future. But

(01:17:31):
you know, on a small everything's on a scale, so
they that process is there on a smaller scale. If
we look at it, then we do. I think the
cells have simple goals like that in a way that
everything's kind of on a scale. It's not just binary.
That's part of the basis of them. They keep walking

(01:17:54):
away from the microphone. So yeah, everything's on the simple
binary print pretty will, not free will, pree choice or
not pre choice. It's just not binary. It's all scaled.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
But do chimpanzees think about time?

Speaker 2 (01:18:16):
I don't know, maybe in some small ways what I'm
saying right and not the way we do. I mean
they have goals. We can see that. And you need
time to have goals because you have to move towards them.
So yeah, I think they do. I think it goes
way down I think sales have goals, DNA has goals,
it goes all the way down there. That's pretty well demonstrated.

(01:18:38):
Now these things are not yes or no. I have
to get out of your head.

Speaker 3 (01:18:46):
Yeah, that's such a good point because when you look
at the animal kingdom, you can see the emotional bond
with parents right in the animal kingdom, and and they
grieve right and and they protect, and there's there's a

(01:19:10):
there's a and they act like parents just like we do.
There's something that is there that is fundamental to life
and consciousness.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
Yeah, but it's within different degrees. It's you know, you
can look at it as the largest goal that they
could possibly, you know, pursue and achieve. You know, we
can pursue goals that will never occur in our lifetime, right, yeah,
we can do that. We do that with our families.

(01:19:42):
You know, we set aside iris and ship like that.

Speaker 3 (01:19:44):
Right right, right, right right, And they do too in
their own way.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Yeah, but put on a smaller scale. Sure, Like I said,
my dog doesn't worry about what's going on three blocks away.

Speaker 5 (01:19:55):
Oh he might dog your dog were there?

Speaker 2 (01:19:59):
Yeah, then there are a a concern with it. I
got a little nembousis dog that she doesn't like. You know,
it's on me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:05):
Members Your dog is listening to you right now, going, dude,
I understand relativity. Don't don't mess with me. Yeah, I
have to wonder about that.

Speaker 2 (01:20:17):
You know. You said people think about quantum mechanics, but
you know it's I don't know the mathematics. You know,
I used to know mathematics when I was younger, but
now I don't care and I can't do it anymore.
But you know, I don't think anybody really thinks about
quantum mechanics in a any real way. It's all based
on the mathematics. And then when you get down to interpretations.

(01:20:42):
They're all pretty bizarre and non intuitive to me.

Speaker 3 (01:20:48):
Isn't that fascinating? Though? It truly is? It truly is,
which always takes me back to.

Speaker 2 (01:20:59):
But you know, it's all probabilistic, which means it's not determined,
so that contradicts their major premises, and it's all determined,
which has always been strange to me.

Speaker 3 (01:21:10):
Well, okay, back to uh determinism. There is a part
of me that understands that particles are limited and therefore
they can only combine so many different ways. We don't

(01:21:32):
have particles don't combine infinitely. So if that's the case,
you know, gold is gold, helium is helium, Hydrogen is
hydrogen no matter where you go in the universe, So
if they are going to react and do their thing,

(01:21:54):
then yes, I understand the determined part of stuff, that
everything is going to happen the way it's going to
happen mathematically, that makes a lot of sense that it's
just the way it is. It's a big number. But
particles are going to combine and that's it. And me

(01:22:15):
talking to you right now in a random sort of way, Well,
a physicist would say to me, no, you were going
to ask that question. Anyway, the conversation was going to
happen the way that it happened. It may seem random,
it may seem like free will, but no, that is
just the universe evolving. And I understand that. I understand

(01:22:40):
that viewpoint. I do. It makes sense to me. But
yet I wake up and some days I ride my
Harley and some days I don't. And I would like
to think that that's free will. But then there are
others that are saying, no, that's already predetermined if you
were going to ride your Harley or not.

Speaker 2 (01:23:00):
So you know, what's the basis for them saying.

Speaker 3 (01:23:02):
That math No, oh, it's different. Okay, what is the
basis of them saying.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
That their theory I mean, you know, in the smallest
cubicle of air or anything like that, they can't compute.
They can't compute it. What's going to happen? They can't
compute any of that stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:23:32):
Well, okay, but their argument will always be if you
go to newtona.

Speaker 2 (01:23:40):
Coarse graining, the concept is coarse graining. They simplify it.
That's you know, that's like thermo dynamics. You just take a
thermometer into this cubic inch of air and you get
a you know, a temperature. But they could never there's
no way they could ever. You know, they can't even
compute how four bodies in the solar system works. There's

(01:24:02):
no math that works for that. So it's all kind
of bullshit in a way. They're basing that on, you know,
a pipe dream that it could be computable, but nobody's
ever done it. They haven't done it at all. It's
just that just has never happened.

Speaker 3 (01:24:20):
But they always but they simplify it with descriptions like this.
I'm gonna I'm gonna make this really simple. But in
Newtonian physics, the basic math, if you have the mass
and the velocity of something, you can predict its future.

(01:24:41):
So you throw a baseball, you know the way to
the baseball, you've got the speed, you know exactly where
that baseball is going to land, right, And that's predicting
the future. And so you can apply that same model
to everything, and you could roll it out and predict

(01:25:03):
the movement of the universe.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
And because they can't do that, I'm just telling you
that they can't do that with five or six bodies
of celestial bodies. It just is impossible. And of course
you know, all these things are course grewing. It's an
approximate thing with the throwing the ball because there's friction.

(01:25:26):
There's all sorts of other factors. And right now they
kind of realizing that the gravitational constant is been changing,
and you got you gotta accept also that which is
okay with me is that right now you're affecting everything
in the universe, your body by distorting space, everything all

(01:25:50):
the time. Does that make sense to you.

Speaker 3 (01:25:53):
Well, it does, it does. That's why. Well, that's why
there are problems. But there's problems with the way science
operates today. When we were talking about this earlier, it
used to be scientists would think completely outside of the

(01:26:16):
box and then go and try to they think of
something crazy and then try to go and chase down
the reason why. And that's how we learned so much.
That type of science is gone. It's great, it's completely gone.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
No no, no, no no, it's been reinvented with the people
that are doing frontier models of AI. That was their
goal originally. They've stated that clearly it's the old German
model of natural science or something like that. The institutions
of today are training people to get into our economy

(01:26:52):
in a certain sense, as opposed to make new discovery.
But that's the reason why this development of AI is
going so quick, because they went back to the old
model of the nineteenth century of science, whereas wide open
do you think always weird paths? Man?

Speaker 3 (01:27:09):
I love this, man, I love this kind of conversation.
Do you think that AI will achieve sentience?

Speaker 2 (01:27:17):
Uh? Sentienced? The right question. What do you mean by sentience?

Speaker 3 (01:27:22):
That's the it's the question that I asked.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Well, well, if you mean that they will have some
sort of sensing devices.

Speaker 3 (01:27:33):
No, no, no, no, feelings, consciousness, sentience.

Speaker 2 (01:27:36):
Well, those are those are different things. I should keep
them straight a little bit, you know, just.

Speaker 3 (01:27:41):
Not in my mind, not of my Okay. So right now,
our AI models are just scraping our current knowledge. Okay,
that's what it's doing. Some of it things for itself,
some of it writes its own code and can create things,
but it's still basing itself on our current knowledge base,

(01:28:08):
our current database. But will AI achieve.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
I'll disagree with you there. Right now, it's pretty clear
that they're accessing mathematics that we've never as humans have
ever encountered, which is some of the reasons they can
do stuff so fast. It's not based on anything any
humans ever done. So, you know, going back to these

(01:28:36):
weird experiences during near death and downloads and so on,
there's another hypothesis called the platonic world. Have you heard
about that? No?

Speaker 3 (01:28:44):
What is it?

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
So, it's it's the world of forms, that's where mathematics exists.
It's a non physical world that is where our memories
are sword the non where are the the fields that
tell us how we should be. These are theories, you know,

(01:29:08):
and I kind of like them, that there's this platonic
world and that there's an interface. Our brain makes an
interface with these things, this world, and that's where we
get a lot of our ideas are and all all
these forms that are non physical are what you know,
kind of like blueprints for for how we are and

(01:29:30):
how things happen. And so when people have non dear,
non near death experiences, they're accessing the platonic world to
some degree. That was described by the Greek's way back
and when when they went to this had their their
near death experiences or whatever they had at Elyssius. Is

(01:29:51):
that that's where these ideas are coming from. Is this
world of form that's just those Plato's cave right.

Speaker 3 (01:30:01):
Yeah, yeah, Plato's cave the Okay, but will a I
get to that point where it operates the same as
the human brain?

Speaker 2 (01:30:14):
Oh much better, I'm sure.

Speaker 3 (01:30:16):
So understanding understanding problem solving?

Speaker 2 (01:30:20):
Oh god, yeah, you said, already doing that.

Speaker 3 (01:30:23):
And I really can't. AI still can't read a calendar,
doesn't understand the calendar, can't read a clock on the wall.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
So there are a lot of a lot of problem
spaces where we all operate, You and I operate in right,
social ones, linguistic ones, all kinds of radio ones, technological,
So the zillions of problem spaces that they're operating on,
solving problems, creating their own own a NISSI own initiatives,

(01:30:52):
and creating and creating new stuff. So in terms of
our our physical sensory world, you know, it's not so great.
It was designed for survival, not for reality, so they'd
probably bypass that because it's a bunch of craft. That's

(01:31:12):
my opinion.

Speaker 3 (01:31:14):
Okay, But here's my here's the problem I have with
taking that next step. Let's say you like blue cars,
all right, Now, AI may know that about you and
the facts that are out there about you that you

(01:31:34):
like blue cars, but it doesn't know why you like
blue cars. And it may be because when you were
five years old, your neighbor had a blue car and
you would go over and you would smell the car
and touch the car and ride in the car, and
you fell in love with the car. And there's an
emotional reason why you like the color blue. Well, for

(01:31:58):
AI to get to that level of being human, it
would have to be able to if it likes the
color blue, why does it like the color blue. It
didn't go through the experiences that you did as a child.
So at what point does AI achieve that level of consciousness?

(01:32:19):
And I'm not sure if that is possible.

Speaker 2 (01:32:23):
So I would I would say it will bypass that
it's not it's not you would right now. That's our problem.
It's one of our main problems is that we were
in this kind of that kind of realm. You know
that it's not that great. It's not that great for

(01:32:44):
actually seeing reality. You know, most of our technological advances
are through machinery that they look at things quite differently.
So I don't I don't think I think it will
bypass that it doesn't need to go there it become
superior to us.

Speaker 3 (01:33:03):
So I would say it would have Okay, well let
me let me let me spin it another way. All right,
what's your favorite band? Let's go this direction. What's your
favorite band?

Speaker 2 (01:33:17):
Springsteen?

Speaker 3 (01:33:18):
Bruce Springsteen? Why? Well, there's a million reasons why. All right. So,
no matter how you got to that point of saying,
Bruce Springsteen, you've got a life time of experiences to
say Bruce Springsteen to answer that question, AI will never

(01:33:38):
have those experiences. And so to be superior to us,
it would need to have those emotions to help decide things.
And if it doesn't, it may be good at math,
it may be good at at creating cures for cancer,

(01:33:59):
but it ain't going to be cool. It's not going
to be cool like Ron Meyer. It's not going to
be you know what I mean? Oh man, I like
Bruce Springsteen because he wrote blinded by the Light, you know,
you know what I mean. That's that's why I feel
good about AI not ever being superior to us.

Speaker 2 (01:34:24):
So all I can say is, you know, get your
head out of the sand.

Speaker 3 (01:34:27):
No, not me, No, my head's out of the sand.
Ron see that's why is it possible? Yeah, eventually, And
let me there are physicists out there that will say
that there's a little piece of consciousness in every particle
and you assemble and you get this massive particles together

(01:34:50):
in between our ears, and consciousness arises out of that
and that yeah, and that's my fear. You put in
enough computer chips together, well there's consciousness and all those
little particles that make up those chips, and maybe consciousness
arrives arises out of that, out of the mass of

(01:35:15):
a computer system.

Speaker 2 (01:35:17):
That's called panpsychism, right.

Speaker 3 (01:35:19):
Yep, yep, yep it is. And that's that's what scares
me interesting.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
So you know, I'm not drawn to that hypothesies just not.

Speaker 3 (01:35:29):
I'm not either. I just it's my Pandora's box. That's
my Pandora's box. Okay. You ever get up in the
morning and your car doesn't start, and you're pissed off
and you kick the car and you yell at the car. Right, Well,
maybe that car is conscious and it's angry at you
for yelling at it, and that's why it's not starting.

(01:35:53):
It could be an example of that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
Well, you know I heard that agent people, So there
was spirit and everything, you know. So if that's your worldview,
that's how you have to function, not my worldview.

Speaker 3 (01:36:09):
Do you remember did you see the movie Everything Everywhere
All at once?

Speaker 2 (01:36:15):
I did, but I can't remember.

Speaker 3 (01:36:17):
Okay, Well, a great movie about the multiverse and many
worlds and so forth. Really really well done movie and
those concepts. But in the end, so the movie, the
protagonist is the daughter. You have the mom. What's her
name Michelle? Michelle anyway, So that's that. It's their relationship

(01:36:43):
that the movie is based on. And in the end
they make up, right, they make up. They kiss and
make up at the end of the movie. You don't
think that they will, but they do. But at the
end of the movie they their consciousness is inside of
two rocks. Yeah, two rocks sitting on a cliff and

(01:37:07):
they're talking to each other. Hey, mom, what's going on?
So I'm just happy that we kissed him made up? Yeah,
me too. Look at this view of this canyon, isn't
it beautiful? It is? Look at the sunset, but it's
two rocks talking to each other. And as the camera
pulls back, you see what's going on in the conversation,
and it's two rocks going back to your point, consciousness

(01:37:29):
exist everywhere. It's a pretty interesting end of the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:37:34):
It is. But I'm not buying you no, I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:37:41):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:37:42):
You know. The point of these things is to test
your imagination, expand your imagination, get you to thinking it
does that, it's good. Can I tell you something that's
happening right now? Yes, quite interesting an experience.

Speaker 3 (01:37:56):
Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:38:00):
Last year, in about this time of the year, we
were down in Arkansas, in Oklahoma doing a movie with
a woman who had a near death experience. I think
I sent you a link to the trailer.

Speaker 3 (01:38:13):
Yeah, I've got it up in the it's it's in
our chat.

Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
Yeah, it's not. It's coming out. I think it's hitting
the street dates sometimes in July. Wasn't in July now,
I think. And we were at a place in Oklahoma
where we were staying in a place that was kind
of known for paranormal stuff, and at night there was

(01:38:39):
this campfire ring up, you know, where you can sit around,
but it was wet and damp, you know, And we
sat around around it and we did a meditation and
we got into sort of an altered state where we
were kind of joined the one entity and the sounds
of the There were a lot of sounds of crickets,

(01:39:00):
frogs and stuff. They were all silent and it was
really cool. And then I did this chance, which is
a basic chant that comes from it's in the book,
the novel book that you know I'm promoting, hopefully, and
it's the chant of the base symbols that formed that

(01:39:21):
are there in every language, not all of them, but
every language is based on them. And it's a E
I O O. Every every language, although how different, is
based on those syllables. Okay, some can exclude a couple,
but there are no other ones. And so it's a
primitive chant that a teacher told me I could do

(01:39:45):
it to use lose myself. You don't get the self disappear.
And I did it once, doing a Nordic track and
channing A I O U A I O, going like that,
and all of a sudden, the self disappeared and those
just the world. And then I sat down on the
couch and I watched the car, the self and the
eagle formed back into being around. It was really cool,

(01:40:10):
and Scott Taylor, who you interviewed, uses it in his
meditatively practice. So we did that there and then we're
going to break up at night. We were going in
different directions, different cabins, and from my perspective, this place
where the fire ring was carved out was amongst really
tall deciduous trees, maybe two stories high. All of a

(01:40:34):
sudden I hear something crashing through the tops of them,
curving around, not dropping, but curving around and going towards
where my son in law and the woman who had
the neo death experience and somebody else were walking to
their car. The cameraman was going in the opposite direction.

(01:40:55):
They heard the same thing come down and it hit
like five ft with a huge thump that shook the ground.
The cameraman didn't hear anything like that, but he felt
the thump. Thought I had fallen over because I was old,
and we looked for something and there was nothing there.
It was a pretty open area, just could not would

(01:41:18):
have had been a giant rock. The book could cruise
along like that for a while and then his drop
to make a thumb. But then two weeks ago we
were out in a place out by Bailey where I
talked about the pear trees, you know, prayer tree, and
all of a sudden we heard this thing coming from

(01:41:41):
the woods. It was loud and there was a guy
with us and we said to him what did you hear?
And he said I heard aile Ooh really, and then
that's the chant right. And then last weekend back there again.

(01:42:04):
This time we were ready for a recording. We got
a recording and it occurred again. We had it, didn't it,
did an analysis on it and it broke down clearly
saying aio, No, what the hell is that about?

Speaker 3 (01:42:20):
What do you make of that? And is it? It's
a geographical.

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
So it's two very different locations. Something would have to
have a memory of that, you know. I suppose that
chances I said, is used in many places, you know,
like Scott Taylor uses in his meditation. So it's not
not not totally secret to me, but that it connects
in some way to an earlier experience we had, which

(01:42:49):
is inexplicable as well. Is it trying to say something?
Do you know you ever had run moorehead on?

Speaker 3 (01:42:57):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (01:42:57):
Of course something to Ero sounds. The analysis that Chad
GBT did was that it's a language, because that's what
they say. The Sierra Sounds was too. So he told
me that he regretted that he was trying to figure
out what it is as opposed to what it was

(01:43:19):
trying to tell him the sounds. Is it trying to
tell us something?

Speaker 3 (01:43:23):
Now, when I bring up geographical because you brought up
Landers earlier, and you've written about and you've done so
much research at different locations, it seems like the phenomena,
whether it's supernatural, paranormal, or something else altogether, has a

(01:43:49):
higher degree of occurrence at specific locations. Why do you
think that is?

Speaker 2 (01:43:55):
You mean hotspots.

Speaker 3 (01:43:57):
Whatever, Yeah, hotspots is yeah, let's let's go with that.
Oh god, I mean okay, well well, well yeah, yeah.
We have the Pacific Northwest with Bigfoot, you've got Landers
and Joshua Tree with UFOs. You've got Seattle and that

(01:44:19):
area with UFOs. You've got a New Mexico that's got
just a little bit of everything. You've got the Unieda
Basin in Utah with a little bit of But these
are geographically specific areas. Why do you think that is?

Speaker 2 (01:44:36):
Well, people suggest portals right now, people suggest something about
these up straight that it's conducive to opening. Like we
did an investigation of Bradshaw Ranch and there's it's over
underneath it is courtz Crystal Base with red sandstone, both

(01:44:58):
that have electrical properties that may enhance its ability to
open portal doors or something. You know. Skinwalker Ranch and
messing around with that crap. Have you ever been there?

Speaker 3 (01:45:12):
I've been invited. I've been inviting. I know everybody up there,
but no, I haven't been yet. I've been to the
other the other places though, and I've experienced stuff at
these places.

Speaker 2 (01:45:24):
You've been to Bradshaw Ranch.

Speaker 3 (01:45:26):
I've been next to it. Yes.

Speaker 2 (01:45:29):
So we did a huge investigation there, interacted with alien intelligences,
set and loss of Bigfoot. Found a portal, got it,
you know, got it, got it on a trail camp.
These borgs coming pouring out of it. It was really cool. Wow,

(01:45:52):
And it was it was up in the air about
this high if I stand six feet tall, and it
was a cold area and the inside was a little
hot thing bouncing around. So somebody said that was a
plasmoid type thing that they need that to pop into existence.

(01:46:14):
We all got kind of really nauseated and sick when
we got entered in as a like, the biology of
whatever this is, this other dimension that's coming through doesn't
quite work well with our biology and somehow kind of
fucks with us, you know a bit. And it was

(01:46:37):
the place where the orbs came pouring out at night.
We got on the trail camp, so that was cool.

Speaker 3 (01:46:44):
And well when you look at so that's a hot.

Speaker 2 (01:46:48):
Spot, I mean that's everybody's known it for quite a
few years now.

Speaker 3 (01:46:51):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well when you look at a place
like Landers, and specifically right next to it is Giant Rock.
Andiant Rock is the largest freestanding boulder in the world,
but it's also granite, right, and it's big. We all
know how big it is. But that whole hill is granite.

(01:47:14):
That whole hill, uh, going out there, that's huge boulders,
but it's also covered in quartz crystals. And you go
up up above a giant rock on that hill and
go to the other side, that's a crystal field. Man,
it's just covered in crystal top of Oh yeah, I've
done I've seen so many things out there, and that's

(01:47:37):
a fascinating area, and so you would you would often,
you know, I have to ask yourself, is it is
it the crystals, is it the granite? Is it the area?
Because I have seen every type of UFO out there.
I've seen everything.

Speaker 2 (01:47:55):
Cool. Yeah, and the wish I had an answer for you.
I think these things places are important that not everyone
every place is there, but I think we have something
to do with it too, as humans that we are
that were you know, if we're really these kind of
spiritual beings that I'm that I'm saying we are, you know,

(01:48:16):
and at some deep level, does any of that occur
if we're not there? I doubt it.

Speaker 3 (01:48:23):
Yes, if a tree falls in the woods, right and
and and also let me ask you this, if you
are somebody that is closed down and not open minded
and not open to what consciousness is, then I would

(01:48:48):
think that E T would know that I wouldn't care
about you. But if you, if you are making a
conscious connection with that, then they will reveal themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:49:03):
There seems to be a progression of opening up and
having more experiences, more experiences that make sense. You know,
It's been my experience, like what I just told you
about the sacred chance. You know, I don't know, but

(01:49:23):
you know, five years ago I doubt that would have
would occurred, or forty years ago that would have occurred.

Speaker 3 (01:49:29):
No, we all thought that that was bullshit. That's okay,
you know, that's that's part of learning. But when if you,
I mean how many times, I can't tell you. I
have no idea how many times this has happened. But
I'm with a group of people and somebody says, Okay, man,
wouldn't it be cool if we saw something and all

(01:49:50):
of a sudden pew right at that moment, right like clockwork.
Well that's not chance, you know, that's somebody saying hello.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
One would hope.

Speaker 3 (01:50:04):
Yeah. And so if you don't go out there and
ask for it, or if you've got somebody that's a
bump on a log, yeah, this is this is bullshit. Well, man,
don't ruin it for us. Go get in the car,
you know, go somewhere else. Don't ruin it for us.
But I think he taces it like we have beacons
of light coming off the top of our heads.

Speaker 2 (01:50:28):
I also think that I've heard enough cases where these experiences,
these mystical altered state citing type experiences, wake people up too.
They weren't asking for it. It just happened, and it
changed them dramatically in big way. That's what I found
when I did my first interview with big but experiences.

(01:50:49):
It was transformational for a lot of them.

Speaker 3 (01:50:54):
What do you make of a regression? And people that
go through therapy and and then have memories revealed, and.

Speaker 2 (01:51:05):
I think it's cool.

Speaker 3 (01:51:07):
Have you had it done?

Speaker 2 (01:51:09):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:51:10):
Would you?

Speaker 2 (01:51:10):
One of the people, one of the people I interviewed
for a near death experience example, a little spider just
came up by me talking to me. He had his
when he was being born and he did that kind
of regression thing, and he realized that he had the

(01:51:38):
classic you know, just coming out of the womb. How's
that for a metaphor coming out of the cave right,
And he never knew why he had these kind of
psigh phenomenal things that it all crystallized for when he
did that regression and realized what was going on when
he was being born.

Speaker 3 (01:51:58):
Would you do it? Would you?

Speaker 2 (01:52:00):
You?

Speaker 3 (01:52:00):
Would you? Would you do a session?

Speaker 2 (01:52:04):
Well? Do you do them?

Speaker 3 (01:52:06):
I did one?

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
Did you? Yeah? Why not?

Speaker 3 (01:52:10):
I did one? I didn't know. Let me tell you
why I did it. I did two things recently just
because I wanted the experience so I could ask the
right questions about it later. One of them was regression
and the other one was DMT. So uh, I did

(01:52:31):
DMT twice and now I understand it. I don't understand it,
but I understand the experience, so I'm able to ask
questions from a different mindset. And it was the same
thing with regression. I wasn't ron. I didn't know if
I was able to go under. And I did it
on camera, all right, So I had my TV crew there,

(01:52:54):
the production crew. You're in the business, you understand. I've
got sound and lights and five cameras in front of me,
and I didn't know if I'd be able to do
it in that setting. We emptied the room all right,
camera set, but everything. Everybody was behind the glass behind me.
We had candles lit and it was it was nice

(01:53:16):
and everything. But I went under like that. I couldn't
I couldn't believe how fast I went under in seconds,
in seconds.

Speaker 2 (01:53:27):
And.

Speaker 3 (01:53:30):
Yeah, part of it is my therapist Sarah, who's really
really good talking to me and her little soft voice, okay, okay,
ten nine out, gone gone, just like that. And I
went into the session and not past live for this.

(01:53:53):
I told her, do your thing, I trust you. Whatever
happens happened, and and that's what we did, and it
was it was pretty revealing, and I was under for
one hour and eleven minutes. How's that for synchronicity?

Speaker 2 (01:54:11):
There you go. What's the highlight? Uh?

Speaker 3 (01:54:14):
Landers? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:54:16):
Landers, Landers, Yeah, yeah, something happened.

Speaker 3 (01:54:20):
Yeah, I'm on a board a ship in Landers.

Speaker 2 (01:54:24):
Yeah, maybe you landed on my property?

Speaker 3 (01:54:26):
Yeah, the Landers. I couldn't I couldn't believe it. I
couldn't believe it. And and now that memory that was unlocked,
and it was very short, like maybe five or ten seconds,
but now it's vivid. It's just completely unlocked. I see it.

(01:54:48):
But I right now, what's that? You do it right now? Well? Yeah,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's right there. Yeah yeah, that's
right there. And the crazy part about it for me
is through all of the shows that I have done
where I've talked to people about their experiences and they

(01:55:10):
talk about what was revealed in the session, and ron
I gotta tell you, I would just sit there and go, man,
it sounds like bullshit, you know, but I would listen
to everybody, you know. But in my mind, I was like, ah, yeah, okay,
all right, But and then I do it. Well, now

(01:55:33):
people have to listen to my bs, you know what
I mean? And it it was crazy. It was like
five or ten seconds and I just appeared. I went
from the ground top on this ship and I'm standing
there in this in this room, it's hard to explain.

(01:55:57):
Couldn't see walls or anything like that. It was black,
but I could see like three six, nine, ten, eleven,
eleven beings were in this room. Three were sitting here,
three were sitting there at three were sitting here facing
like sitting over desk or something control panel, I don't know.
But and then in the middle of the room where

(01:56:18):
two guys entities ets whatever, standing talking to each other.
And so I look around. It's like five seconds and
I look around and these two guys in the middle
of the room. One of them they're talking to each other,
but one of them turns around and looks at me
and goes, what's up, And then he goes back, that's thought, okay,

(01:56:41):
all right, And then the other one kind of looked
at me. Then I heard this other guy here talking
on like a microphone and he's talking to somebody, and
I could hear the conversation, and I just kind of scan.
I look at these guys and I come back. I
look at these guys and then I'm back on the ground.
So it was like five ten seconds. That was it?

Speaker 2 (01:57:05):
And why where they're speaking English or was it English?

Speaker 3 (01:57:08):
English? English? I saw their lips move, I saw their eyes,
I saw their shapes. Yeah. Yeah. And the guy that
was talking on the microphone, his back was to me,
but I could see him hunched over, and I could
hear the conversation he's talking to somebody's like a radio,

(01:57:30):
I guess is the best way to put it, Like
a radio. And it was this normal Ron, It was
a normal conversation. He was He said something like, hey, man,
what's up. And the guy responds back, it's good to
see you. Yeah, it's good to see you too. Yeah,
we're here. Okay, okay, cool. It was a conversation like that.

(01:57:54):
And so and what's that question?

Speaker 2 (01:57:59):
What was your form in this situation?

Speaker 5 (01:58:02):
As you remember, what was my form?

Speaker 3 (01:58:04):
I was only seeing so I didn't look at my physical.

Speaker 2 (01:58:10):
There was no body to it.

Speaker 3 (01:58:12):
Well, okay, you walk into an office. Ron Meyer walks
into an office and he's looking at a bunch of cube.
This is where you work, and you arrive in the
morning and you just look around to see who's there,
and you keep walking. It was it's a familiar space
for you. So you're not necessarily listening to all. That's

(01:58:33):
what it was like for me. I wasn't going after
the details. It was just like this friendly atmosphere, you know.
And like I said, that guy looked at me and goes,
what's up? Just like that. Man, it was like weird.
It's like, yo, Yeah it was trippy. Man, it was
not it was And I gotta say they expected me.

(01:59:00):
I guess that's the best way to put it. Nobody
was surprised, nobody was startled. I wasn't startled. Yeah, it
was weird. It was weird.

Speaker 2 (01:59:10):
Maybe there's a future yourself behind you right now looking at.

Speaker 3 (01:59:14):
I don't want, you know, And so I've been asked that,
you know, other questions like that. I don't know if
I would do it again. And I don't know if
I want to know that. I've got other experiences that
are locked away. I think it's best that I just
leave that stuff where it is. I don't want to know.

(01:59:35):
I don't want to know. Yeah, it was exhausting too.
When I came out of the uh of the session
or whatever you want to call it, when she brings
me too right three two one, top your back and
I opened my eyes, and I sat up. I couldn't

(01:59:55):
believe I sat with my arms on my chest for
over an hour. So my fingers were numb, right, and
my body was numb, my legs were numb, and so
I kind of sat up and got my head together,
and everybody comes flooding in. Whoa, and and I'm trying
to remember what just happened. Anyway, for the rest of

(02:00:20):
the day, and we had to tape TV shows all day.
The next day, I was physically exhausted, and I thought
to myself, how do people do this all the time.
It's it's it's too much, it's too much to unpack. Mentally,
it's it's heavy. Uh, it's revealing, and physically it is.

(02:00:43):
I mean, I was exhausted. I felt like I ran
a marathon, you know. And uh, it took me. It
took me hours to get back to normal. So I
don't know if I if I want to go through
that again. I did it a year ago and I'm
not ready. I'm not right.

Speaker 2 (02:01:00):
Thanks for telling me. I enjoyed.

Speaker 3 (02:01:02):
Its good to hear that it was crazy. And and
here's the other thing. Here's the other thing is I
spoke with a vocabulary that I never use it was weird.
When I went back and watched all the tapes of it,

(02:01:24):
I was like, man, who is that guy?

Speaker 2 (02:01:27):
You know?

Speaker 3 (02:01:27):
And I speak for a living, right, I speak for
a living. I do this every single day, right. And
if I'm not doing this, I'm taping my TV show.
I am talking. And if I'm not doing this or
the TV show, I'm at a conference speaking. Right. That's
what I do all year long, seven days a week.
I'm constantly talking. I know my vocabulary, I know the

(02:01:49):
way that I speak, I know the work. My audience
is so used to my my choice of words. They
know they know what I'm gonna say before I say it.
And I appreciate that. In that session, that was a
different person speaking, and I was not comfortable with that.

(02:02:11):
I wasn't It comes from deep into I don't know
I have I don't know. I'm still trying to resolve it.
I'm still unpacking it a year later.

Speaker 2 (02:02:24):
As they say, you're processing.

Speaker 3 (02:02:26):
It completely completely.

Speaker 2 (02:02:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:02:30):
Yeah, was it fun?

Speaker 3 (02:02:32):
Was it fun? Yes? Was it revealing? Absolutely? But you
can only go to Disneyland so many times. It's a
once a year thing. I guess you should do it, though,
you should do it with all of your experiences and
and and stuff. You should just do it. Go into

(02:02:52):
it without any expectations or any intention, and just see
see what the hell happens.

Speaker 2 (02:02:59):
Yeah, an experience when I was, you know, a young
person that was into astronomy, and I made my own
telescope ground, the lens and everything, and put a build
a deck on top of my garage where i'd look
at the sky because I love that sort of thing.
At one point, my only remember is that this big

(02:03:21):
white light came towards me. And that's what I remember
right now. And I know after I had an astronomy buddy,
I said, did you see that? Did you see that? Did?
I didn't see anything. I've always wondered, you know what
was that? Was that my imagination because I wanted to

(02:03:45):
I wanted to see an alien, you know, and I
was as a young person, was really intrigued by all
that stuff.

Speaker 3 (02:03:52):
Now, Ron, we've got your links up for your books
Jesus had a Near Death Experience and everything else Aliens
twenty three five. Of course you've got Bradshaw Ranch here
and so many you've you've you're very prolific, So all
of your books are up here with the link that
we have over at Amazon. Is this the best way

(02:04:14):
to get your stuff?

Speaker 2 (02:04:16):
Absolutely? Amazon, Barnes and Noble. I don't know that they
all carry them, Yeah, the street. Most of the stuff
you know is on multiple streaming platforms Amazon, Bradshaw ranch
is on is on YouTube TV, which is really great
for making money.

Speaker 3 (02:04:37):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And we've got the links up for
everything for Ron, and so everybody please visit pick up
Ron's books and and check them out. And Ron, I
want to thank you for not only coming on the show,
but all of your hard work over the years. And
I do look forward to our next conversation, my friend.
Thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (02:04:58):
Surprising where we went, but it was great fun.

Speaker 3 (02:05:00):
Yeah, absolutely, it was a perfect show. I'm here to learn. Ron,
thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (02:05:05):
You bet have a good evening.

Speaker 3 (02:05:07):
You two be safe out there, Ron Meyer everybody, and
again we have his links up. We've got the trailers
and the movies up in the chat room, and then
all of his books are right there in the link
below over on our website and then throughout social media.
And with that, I want to remind everybody what is

(02:05:28):
going on around here tomorrow night Lance High Tower is here.
We're gonna be talking about dog Man. Dog Man in
the USA. I'm your host, Jimmy Church. This is Fade
to Black, Go Beckley Teppee. Fade to Black his produced
by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman, and Michelle Free. Special

(02:05:52):
thanks to Bill John Dex, Jessica Dennis and Kevin Webmaster
is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Albridge. Intro Spaceboy.
Aide to Black is produced by kjc R for the
Game Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted twenty

(02:06:13):
twenty four by Fade to Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc.
It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or used anywhere in
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Go Beckley Teppy