FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Katie Paige

Tonight, author and researcher Katie Paige joins us to talk about Snippy the Horse and other UFO High Strangeness!!!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's your host, Jimmy Church on the Game Changer Radio Network.
All right, good evening, how you doing? How you doing?
It's Fade to Black. Today is Monday, September fifteenth, two
thousand and twenty five. I'm your host, Jimmy Church. Let's

(00:20):
do this Mayana. Yeah, what a crazy weekend. And here
we are Monday, kicking off a brand new week here
on Fad to Black. Tonight, Katie Page is here Snippy
the Horse. Tomorrow night Tuesday, Reverend Peter pana Gore is
with us, and he is a death survivor, that's right,

(00:45):
and a reverend. So we're gonna go through all of
that Tomorrow night. Wednesday night, filmmaker Mark Christopher Lee is here.
He's got a new film out about Rendall shim It
is called The Rendall shim Ufo. We'll be talking about
that Wednesday night and then Thursday night. Get ready kids,
Thursday Night. That's right, it's your favorite night. It's an

(01:06):
ama ama j aja where you get to ask me anything. Yeah,
so much fun. I love doing that with all of you.
Before we get started tonight. Well let me get this
out of the way too as well. Twenty twenty six
is right around the corner. It's a couple of months away.
Next week, by the way, or next month is my birthday.

(01:29):
Just letting you know in case you're gonna go gift shopping. Yeah,
I don't know what you're gonna do with the gifts,
but you can go gift shopping and let me know
what you got me and then you can just use
it in your own kitchen. Coming up in twenty twenty
six the Conscious Life Expo. That is February twentyth through
the twenty third at the Lax Hilton right here in

(01:50):
Los Angeles, California. Right after that is the Contact Modalities
Expo May first through the third, twenty twenty six, and
Dela Movis Consonant Lake at the Delavan Lake Resort. Come
back from that for Contacting the Desert May twenty eight
through June first, twenty twenty six. Tickets are on sale
this Thanksgiving Day. And then right after that I head

(02:13):
south to Peru with Brian Forrester for the INCA Celebration
of the Sun the Winter Solstice, and that is June
twenty third through July first, twenty twenty six. And I
know what you're saying, Wait, wait, Winter that's in the
middle of summer. That's because it's the Southern Hemisphere. Come on, man,
you knew that. I come back from that, I head

(02:34):
over to the UK for the Monty Python Tour of
Scotland August first through the ninth, twenty twenty sixth I
come back from that. I turned straight around and head
back to Peru, and this time it is Peru and
Easter Island with Brian Forrester, and that's coming up in
November twenty twenty six. All of this are in the

(02:56):
links below over on our website and throughout social media.
And a busy year. It's always busy around here. And
so there you go. Now, I did just get back
in town from shooting a shot five five episodes of
Beyond Belief on Friday, and yeah, kind of sounds like

(03:20):
a lot, and I guess for some it is, but
it's really not. When you have amazing guests number one
and number two, a production team that supports you, and
Guy has got the best production team and so all
of that just relieves the pressure off of me, where

(03:43):
all I have to do is know my guests, which
I do, know the subjects you know, which I do.
It's what I do right, and all I have to
worry about is wardrobe in between sets. I don't even
have to do that. Man, they pick it out for me.
I just go in there, you know, and then walk
back out and do another amazing show. So that's what

(04:04):
I did this weekend. I did want to mention this though.
Last night I did something. I'm gonna ask Katie about
this when I bring her in. I did something I
haven't done since this film was in movie theaters. Okay,
I don't even know when it came out long time ago.

(04:26):
Last night I watched The Mummy with Brendan Fraser. I did,
I did, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. And with everything
that I know about Egypt now, the names and how
they did stuff and the way that it was presented,

(04:46):
I was like, well, historically it's a little wacky, but man,
it was great. It was great. It described forgot how good.
I hadn't seen it in so long that I thought
I knew the movie. I didn't know any of it.
It was like I watched it for the first time
and it was It was pretty great. The scene that

(05:09):
they had fighting the Mamelukes the Turks in the beginning
in nineteen thirty that happened, the battle that they did there,
and the way that it was portrayed that happened with
Napoleon in seventeen ninety eight. But I guess that is
the first off that is artistic license with the screenplay.

(05:31):
All right, I get that. And you can't just like
get all bunched up in the movie and start calling
just enjoy it for what it is, all right, all right,
it was pretty interesting. It's pretty good. All right, So
there you go watch The Mummy, go back and watch.
Maybe you have seen it lately. I haven't. I really

(05:51):
enjoyed it. Tonight, Katie Page is here. Tonight we're going
to be talking about one of my favorite cases that
doesn't get discussed enough, but we've got new research. So
tonight we're going to be talking about Snippy the Horse.
That's right, and now she's got new evidence. We're going
to be talking about that. The case goes all the

(06:12):
way back to nineteen sixty seven and it is one
of the earliest and most puzzling animal mutilation mysteries that
we have. So we're going to do that, and then
we're also going to talk about her current work up
at Rocky Mountain Ranch. So we're going to do all
of that and much more tonight with Katie Paige. And
I can't believe I'm saying this, but I would like

(06:34):
to welcome, for the first time to Fade to Black
Katie Page. Katie, We've known each other forever, what I mean,
what the hell I know she's got a fade of
black shirt back there. I mean, it was just one
of those things I do want to mention and welcome.

(06:54):
Katie's so great to have you here.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, this is gonna be great. And we waited too
long to do this. This is one of those things
where Katie and we'll talk about it in a second.
She does this post on social media and I'm I
was busy, I'm gearing up, I'm packing my bags, I'm
flying out it, I'm doing that. She does a post
and I'm just not on social media, Katie, I'm not.

(07:22):
But for some reason I was doing something. I was
there and your post popped up and I went, Okay,
I'm going to take care of this, and you know,
this is what friends do. And I did and everything
and then boom, you're here on Monday. What is interesting
about all of that is I didn't care what we

(07:45):
were going to talk about. I didn't no. I was like, man,
it's Katie, we can do whatever we want. And you
ended up bringing your A game and Snippy the horse,
so that is fantastic. Now I want to do this.
I'm gonna ask my moderators. Let's see Bill, John and Jessica. Katie. Okay, Katie,

(08:13):
I don't know if I should have you tell the
story or I'll do the short version, because I don't
want Katie to spend fifteen minutes on this is this.
Katie posted a warning shot last week which was I
think I've lost my YouTube channel. I don't know if
I can get it back. Does anybody have any advice?

(08:34):
And I read that and was like, well it's gone,
right was my prayer was like oh shit? And so
I reached out to Katie. And because Katie's next post
was you know, I've got a new YouTube channel up,
and everybody go and hit it and like and subscribe,
I said, Katie, come on fade to black and we'll

(08:58):
announce this on fade to black. So let's do this. Now.
What I want my moderators to do is the link
to the new YouTube channel on your website.

Speaker 2 (09:10):
It is.

Speaker 1 (09:11):
Okay, Bill John Jessica, head over to Katie's page grab
her new YouTube channel link.

Speaker 2 (09:20):
Actually it might. I don't know, I think it is,
but it is. It's just Rocky Mountain Ranch Research with
Katie page. If you just search that, the YouTube channel
will come up, because that's what it is.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
Okay, everybody got that Rocky Mountain Ranch, Rocky Mountain Ranch
Research with Katie Paige. Okay, type all of that in. Yeah,
you can do it. Get the link up and put
it up in the chat for everybody, and we'll also

(09:51):
put it in the description below. But Katie's got to
rebuilder her YouTube channel and that sucks.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Oh it's but you know what, Jimmy, it was perspective
because here I was just you know, I had two
under one email and a box popped up you're deleting
one with three subscribers one video, hit delete, and then
the main one was gone. And I was all mortified
and did that post on Facebook and x and social media,
and then very quickly, a good dear friend of mine
I found out was in the hospital that day. So

(10:20):
perspective that snapped me out of my pity party right away.
And I'm like, you know, it's a Dane YouTube channel.
I'll get it back. I just have to rebuild it.
And you know, everything happens for a reason. I think
some good things will come out of it. At least
I'll have it branded this time. And I've learned and
so learned the hard way. Sometimes you have to take
the hard knocks.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
Okay, thank you, thank you. Okay, So we got the
links up. We've got them up in the chat. Everybody
go and follow and subscribe and do everything that you
need to do to get get Katie straighten out and rebuilt.
I went through that. I don't know how many years ago.

(10:59):
It's been a minute, and we I can't remember the particulars.
That part doesn't matter. But our channel was either deleted
or taken down or taken down, I can't remember. That
part doesn't matter. But I have a company that manages

(11:20):
my YouTube channel, right, okay. So I reached out and
they've they've you know, managed my channel. I don't know,
twelve thirteen years long time. And so I reached out
to them attorney whatever, boom, and we got it back
within a day and that. But I wouldn't have known

(11:44):
how to do it. No there. They do everything except
have the button that says, okay, contact us. What do
you what are you tripping out on? Yeah? Yeah, what
are you tripping out on? Click here? And then for
still have them by the way, a trip on this.

(12:06):
This is about seven or eight years ago, maybe nine
years ago. I never checked my Gmail. Okay, I don't.
I've got a few Gmail accounts. I haven't opened up
Gmail in forever. But for some reason I clicked on
Gmail and there's an email there from YouTube. Hi, my

(12:29):
name is Bob, and I'm your account representative here at YouTube.
Let me know if there's anything I can do. I'm
just reaching out to say hello. I was like, this
is fake, right, And I replied back and uh, yeah yeah.

(12:51):
And I've got a youtuberep yeah yeah, yeah yeah. The
world took us on a tour of the YouTube camp us.
Yeah yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Lucked into that and he
explained it, No, there's too many channels. It's not everybody
gets this. We just look at certain criteria and we

(13:15):
look at that and then we pick and choose from there,
and and you got lucky. Been with me ever since?
Still there? Yeah? Pretty cool? Nice, pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (13:24):
I learned you need a branded channel. So for those
of you out there, make sure your channel if you
want it to stick around and you want to get
it back, make sure it's a branded channel. I learned
that lesson.

Speaker 1 (13:34):
I have no idea I have I have no idea.
I don't run my stuff, so I wouldn't what you're
saying right there. I have no idea none. Zero. I
would love to claim genius on this. No, no, not me,
not me. Let me, let me. Let me get started

(13:58):
here if I can with you. You've been a part of
this community now for a while, and you've done a
lot of stuff in the great state of Colorado too
as well for the community. But what's the short story
of how all of this happened.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
With Snippy or it's just getting in general? Yeah UFOs, Yeah, well,
in a nutshell the short version, Like so many people
out there, we have strange, unusual experiences. For me, the
high strangeness of it all. You know, we compartmentalize the paranormal,
the UFOs, the cryptids. So my mother dated a gentleman
that owned a very high strangest ranch in the mid seventies,

(14:40):
from seventy five to seventy eight, It's where Linda Moulton
Howe got her start out there as an investigative journalist
with the rash of mutilations and strange, unusual helicopters, you
name it, cryptids, hum sounds on and on and on.
And I was a little girl out there at the time,
and me and my sister and my mom experienced a
lot of strange things. And you know, after I raised

(15:04):
my family and got my degree, I started watching documentaries
and reading books and all that. And I was watching
a documentary heard about Mouf on the mutual ufone network,
and that was a good place to get my feet wet.
Started there doing cases and whatnot. And then a couple
of years in, I bought this book right here, hunt
for the Skinwalker by George Knapp and coom kill you Her.

(15:25):
And this was before the Skinwalker show. You know, they
didn't have their TV show on History Channel yet. And
I thought I read the back and I thought, wow,
this sounds a lot like what happened to me, you know,
in my childhood. And there's a chapter in here called
other hot Spots. And I started to read about a
ranch in Colorado, and I was like, holy beep, deep
deep that's a ranch of my childhood. I knew it was.

(15:47):
But what's interesting is APRO, which is the Aerial Phenomena
Research organization, they didn't know the actual location of the ranch.
It was dubbed the Clearview Ranch. And in this book
I learned that doctor Leo Sprinkle was PHI was one
of the investigators APRO investigators, along with John dr PhD
and Peter Van Marsdale. And I quickly wrote, you know,

(16:08):
doctor Leo Sprinkle's old school. So I wrote him a
letter saying, hey, I know the people, I know the
real location, and it's just been a rabbit hole ever since.

Speaker 1 (16:17):
That is crazy. The a list from APRO, right, yeah,
And I not to spend a whole lot of time
on this, but APRO, for those that are new, you know,
twenty seventeen and beyond right, for those that are new

(16:38):
to UFOs, they know about move On, But things like
NICAP and APRO and the other older organizations they've they've
been forgotten. An APRO was a big deal, a big
big deal, a professional. And well so's Nightcap too as well.

(17:04):
Both well well yeah, but and uh, the kufos and
move On back then were small, and that's that's what's
you know, that's that's the crazy part about it. What
you know, those who have survived and everything else and
where we are today. Yes, I get that, But back

(17:26):
then APRO and and NIGHTCAP and Nightcap might have been
a CIA organization. There. I said it. I said it.
I just said it out loud. I said it out loud. Well,
it's only because of their board of directors and every
you know, they brought in all of these intelligence officials

(17:48):
from the military and the Navy and everything else and
the CIA to help push disclosure through in Washington. But
when you look at the board of directors of NIGHTCAP,
who is very important, you back up and you go, Wow,
what was really going on there? APRO didn't have those issues,

(18:10):
not as much.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
But I mean, I think all of these big organizations,
and I hate to call out a particular, but I
think they all have an element of that. I know
certainly they're all being watched and monitored by the CIA
and other organizations to see what people are reporting. So
that makes sense to me.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
It goes on to this day. If the intelligence agencies
are not watching the UFO community and going to the
conferences and checking out, then they're not doing their job. Yes,
So you know I would be more freaked out if
they didn't care. Right, Oh really you don't care? Oh no,

(18:50):
but they do and they are paying attention for sure.
And now back to the ranch though, and then we'll
swing this over to snippy that area, the ranch, the
Four Corners area of course, Arizona and New Mexico and Colorado.
No stranger to high strangeness. Wow, that's a heck of

(19:13):
a sentence to weave together. But it's always been going
on there, hasn't it.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
Yeah, you know, that was part of the question I
always had. Now, this particular sixty acre ranch sat vacant
for ten years, and the big question for me, you know,
starting out way back, was how much of this was
black access government secret projects, because we'd know through all
the records and files through doctor Sprinkle and others, and
now that the aprofiles are finally recovered that there was

(19:41):
a military presence. And I cornered Richard Dody in Laughlin.
Actually actually you were there, That's where I got this
T shirt. But I wanted to know if he knew
about the ranch, you know, in the seventies, because I
think he came in like seventy seven, and I was
curious if they knew about the Elbert County Ranch, and
he said, they knew. We know that there was soldiers

(20:02):
there from Port Carson. We know norradnew about at the
Air Force Academy, So there was definitely a military presence.
So I wanted to know which came first, the military
presence or the phenomena. And from what I've uncovered going back,
it was known as the Mulligan Homestead and the Mulligans.
Dick Mulligan was born and raised on that property. Later
in his life he became the caretaker for Winter Park

(20:24):
Ski resort. And he was born in Ireland and then
moved very His family was born from Ireland. He was
born on the ranch, but he was known for having
bold exaggeration in the gift of gab And I'm thinking
to myself and talking to a lot of locals, you know,
with the Native American history and just goes way before
the seventies, the strange unusual things happening out there, and

(20:48):
so many of these other high strangers' locations. So for
sure the highest Strangers came before the military presence. So
I thought that was interesting to know as we look.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
At you know, and Linda's excellent work. You know, I
just spent another great weekend with Linda. She never stops
bringing the information. I got to tell you, She's just
she's phenomenal. But her awareness and interest into cattle and

(21:18):
animal mutilations certainly brought it forward. But she was in
a position at a TV station and what she was
doing to help elevate this through the media. But the
country back when all of this started to kick off,
there was a lot of high strangeness going on in
and around the country at that time, and cattle and

(21:41):
animal mutilations were just another part of the fascination that
the public had with this. But it truly went viral,
didn't it It did?

Speaker 2 (21:50):
It went viral was Snippy before viral was viral. Snippy
was the one that kicked it off September seventh. You know,
he goes missing. They find him September ninth, nineteen sixty seven.
But the San Luis Valley is still very much a hotspot,
and even pre Snippy, you know, they were animal deaths
and high strangers going on, a lot of reports from
sixty six. Snippy was just the one that kind of

(22:12):
catapulted it. I mean, you know, being able to work
with the King family, and how this all came about
really was this wonderful place right here. David Marler and
the National UFO Historical Record Center out there in Rio Rancho,
New Mexico, finally acquired the long lost APRO files and
they were missing for over thirty five years. And so
as soon as Dave, you know, I've been to Dave's

(22:34):
house before he moved it and everything, and so as
soon as I learned he had the aprofiles, I was like, oh,
my gosh, more stuff on the ranch. So I kind
of went there selfishly to dig more on the Rocky
Mountain ranch. And Dave walks over to the table and
plops down a stack of hundreds of photos never seen,
a stack of audio recordings, hours and hours of audio

(22:56):
that's never been heard, documents that have never been seen
in over thirty five five years. And I was on
the phone immediately with the King family. Carrie King, who
is now running the Snippy event, contacted me three years ago.
The question of the name came up a couple of
years ago, and then all of a sudden, as fate
would have it, Bam, Dave requires the APRO files and
its kind of history now and was so cool about

(23:18):
It's full circle for me in so many ways. But
you know, the connection with Linda how obviously is important
to me. But doctor Leo Sprinkle played a big role
in the Snippy case as well, so you know, and
he along at the Rocky Mountain rang. So it was
just kind of cool that we were able to do
this new book and all this new research for the
King family and share all the new photos and evidence

(23:39):
and things like that.

Speaker 1 (23:40):
So yeah, you know, David Marler deserves a metal. You know,
we've got to We've got to figure that out. Because
the APRO files, this the importance of them, cannot be dismissed.
But what had happened when when Apro ended up folding,
the founders had died like six months apart. But they

(24:05):
had by all accounts, this is off the top of
my head everybody, but they had around seventeen thousand case files.
The majority of those case files were never in the
public domain, were not part of Blue Book. These were
independent research files from APRO from people around the country.

(24:29):
And what went with that were film, audio, images, maps, drawings, descriptions,
just a ton of I mean file cabinet after file cabinet,
but one thing led to another change of hands, money, greed,
everything comes into play here, right. And then APRO files disappeared,

(24:52):
and we wondered here in the UFO community if they
would ever surface and if they would be properly archived. Well,
here along comes David Marler and we now have the
ap profiles back to right the ranch and also Snippy.

(25:12):
So I'm going to bring up this is Snippy for me.
Back when this case was taking off, the photographs of
Snippy's skull and face and everything that that were public
deals were high talk about, you know, shot on film,
were some of the craziest images this country has ever

(25:34):
seen and very hard to explain. But here's Snippy. What
are we looking at here?

Speaker 2 (25:40):
Right? What I'd like to say just off the top.
First of all, these are graphics, so there's sensitive images here.
But there was so much more to this Snippy case
where I thought it was really about just the first
you know, worldwide recognized animal mutilation. It is truly a
high strangeness case and there's so much more to this case,
and it tied directly to our mountain ranch that with

(26:01):
my head every day I was just my jaw was
on the floor. One thing about this image in particular
that I like to point out now, this was the
earliest picture we have a simpy was nine days after.
This was a little while later after he was more decomposed.
But his back left rear leg you can see, was
also void of flesh and skin, which was not really reported.

(26:22):
It's in a lot of the documents, but it wasn't
really well known throughout, you know, the newspapers and things
like that. So his his neck, his skull were avoid
of flesh and you know, skin, and same with his
But you can clearly see too that his back right
leg is broken. And in the a Profiles is a
huge map and the original calendar and so many cool things.

(26:45):
And in one of the map drawings they clearly made
it clear that you know, this was Snippy, a three
year old apple Loosa gelding colt, and you can see
where First of all, I would like to say, do
there were four horses pastured on the King ranch. There
was a black horse named Smokey, and we do have
a picture of Smoky, a brown horse named Sheba, a

(27:08):
dapple gray lady who is Snippy's mother, and then Snippy.
And what a lot of people don't know too, and
I was shocked to find out is Smoky the black
horse died the week before Snippy, and they thought that
Smokey had died from a rattle. There's Smoky right there.
And then that's Nellie Lewis holding Smokey the black horse,

(27:29):
and that's Agnes King. She was in her eighties. Another
cool thing in the audio. We have audio of Agnes
the day of Snippy's capture September seventh. She heard a
hum sound, got up. She didn't have her glasses on,
and the recordings unbelievable because it's her actual voice. She
saw a low flying silver craft that day before. They

(27:52):
suspect Snippy was, you know, captured that evening. But the
horse she has there is a horse named Sheba. And
if you notice Sheba's front legs, there's no color ra
on Sheba's legs or or Smoked. But Smokey died the
week before of a supposed rattlesnake bite to the back
hip because there was a little swelling. However, a horse
Smokey was fourteen hands high and twelve hundred pounds. A

(28:14):
rattlesnake would only take down a horse if it got
it on its muzzle or its throat and obstruct its breathing.
So his death still remains a mystery. And there was
another ranch right right next to the King Ranch, Ernest
Wellington's ranch, and they had so many animal deaths and
strange like calves going blind and strained hoof growth and

(28:36):
stuff like that. They named it the Dead Cow Ranch.

Speaker 1 (28:40):
The Dead Cow Ranch. Yeah, do you remember? And then
we'll move on, But do you remember fast, probably two
three years ago, the cattle mutilations in Texas? I do, Yeah,
wasn't that crazy? All in a straight line, right, and
listening to the sheriff and the ranchers out there going,

(29:05):
you know, see strange stuff all the time. This is
crazy town. And when I want to ask you about this,
because you spent so much time in Colorado and on
ranches and stuff, ranchers, cowboys, you know, it's just you know, ranchers,
ranch hands. They are out there experiencing nature at every level,

(29:29):
all right, So they see stuff all the time. Stuff
caught in fences, stuff that goes, stuff that has been
killed by a predator, whatever it may be, disease, right,
they see everything all the time. So when they come
back with yeah, it's pretty weird. Well, you know, you

(29:52):
know right, you need to we need to stop and
listen to what they have to say, like the ranchers
and and the police and the law enforcement with Texas
a few years ago. That was a real head scratcher
for me because they didn't understand it. Well, that's what
was going on. Not only was Snippy, but the cattle
mutilations that were happening in the area right and what.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
Was fascinating to me about Snippy. This was before all.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
You know.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
Now you talk to Linda, Chuck Sulkowski's done a lot
of work Christopher O'Brien, who he just recently lost. Unfortunately,
we were going to work with Chris on the Snippy
case and he passed away the week before we were
going to kind of hit this hard. So that was
a really unfortunate loss to the community. Linda has been
very gracious in this new information coming forward. We do

(30:39):
not know why Burrel in the late eighties with Linda
and Chris changed the story. There's a lot of theories
on maybe possibly why, but the name and sex confusion
kind of started really early on, and some of the
documents we learned that Snippy was actually a birthday gift
for Nelly, and he was actually born in Estes Park, Colorado,
where the Stanley Hotel is. And then I was bored

(31:00):
in Denver for a couple of years before he made
it to the valley. But Agnes King the her mother
that you saw the photograph of there, she would refer
to you got to remember the year nineteen sixty seven.
So Jackie, oh, Jackie Kennedy was all the rage, right,
everybody loved Jackie and the Kennedys. And she would compare
Snippy being a proud little cult and would compare him

(31:21):
to Jackie Kennedy. And so even early articles would confuse
the sex very early on.

Speaker 1 (31:28):
Why is this, Why is this important?

Speaker 2 (31:32):
Well, well, I think it's just yeah, this. You can
imagine my excitement when I got to see these first photographs.
These are the only known pictures of Snippy alive, and
this is Snippy as a cult with mother Lady. I
think it's important because of the name confusion and some
you know, we spent over six months. Tony Angiola wrote

(31:53):
the book and I, you know, right there alongside him,
and it was just our living room was a pile
of books and magazines and easels full of documents and recordings,
and we're just trying to look at all the evidence
we can and we just wanted to get it right
for the King family. And that's why the book is
titled A King Family Legacy. So if nothing else, I
think it was important to get it right for the

(32:14):
King family. We also got a call from a woman,
Ernest Wellington's daughter, Leona. She lives in Australia now, and
she quickly she wrote a review on Amazon and everything.
She's like, you guys got it right. I was there
and was really sad about that. Ernest Wellington along with
Nellie and we'll get into more of the evidence, but

(32:35):
there were you know, crushed Chico brushes around Snippy's carcass
and in one of these, Nellie finds us strange what
she called a tool, and Ernest was with her when
she found this tool and she pokes it with a
stick and some green ooze comes out of it and
her hands burned for an hour until she washed them
and everything. And Condon Committee took some of that and

(32:57):
tested that tool, which we have the results, Matt, and
it was some sort of strange seaweed but anyway, Ernest
Wellington died a week later and he was only fifty two.
So we asked his daughter do you think Ernest Wellington's
death had anything to do with him finding this green
tool or this green ooze and tool next to Snippy's,
and she thought, yes, it perhaps had something to do

(33:20):
with his death because he was not ill otherwise. Now
why Nelly continued on and it just affected Ernest, I
do not know, but it's super sad that he passes
away a week after finding that tool.

Speaker 1 (33:32):
So with Snippy, now Snippy male or female, Snippy is
a male, and we did have so his bones.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
If anybody's interested in seeing Snippy's bones are at the
UFO watchtower. Judy Musselin has them. But here we had
them the bones analyzed and as you can see, for
female horses they have a wider birth canal for the
cults or the mayors to come out, and Snippy is narrow.

(34:00):
So there's Snippies right there. So even his bone show
that yes he is indeed three year old colt. But
all over the place, all of the auto recordings, all
the maps, all the documents, all the photographs, and the
most important photograph is the photograph of Sheba and Lady
right after Snippy's death. So in the documents and in
the recordings they talked about how Sheba and Lady and

(34:23):
Snippy were all very friendly horses. You would come up
and they'd take sugar cubes out of your hand. Well,
after Snippy's mutilation, Lady and Sheba, which we have photographs of,
after Snippy's mutilation, became very skittish, very especially you know
those old box cameras, they try to take pictures and
they'd hear the click of the camera and just freak out.

(34:45):
So their temperaments changed after that mutilation. And one of
the cool things there was a map of the ground.
It had rained like three days before, you know, light rain,
so you could see tracks around Snippy. You can even
see bird tracks because the ground was so moist, and

(35:06):
so they could see the three sets of horse prints.
Remember Smokey died the week before. So you have Lady,
Sheba and Snippy and you could see their tracks running
in a zigzag pattern as if something was corralling them
or spooking them. Then you see Lady and Sheba's track
run back to the King Ranch house. You see Snippy's
hoof prints milling in a circle, and then it's this

(35:29):
is discrepancy. Some reports say two hundred and fifty feet away,
some say twenty five to thirty five feet away. Snippy
is no tracks whatsoever. He's lifted and dropped and you
could see that broken back right leg and he's dropped there.
So it's you know, very unusual. And there's way more
evidence around this case than I ever knew, and.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
Now as you looked into it, comparing everything today in
the notes for today and the research versus the original
press releases and comments about Snippy in nineteen sixty seven,
what were the injuries to Snippy?

Speaker 2 (36:10):
Right? I mean, there was so much more I didn't know,
like that back left leg that was also bear and
void of flesh, and that's not why recognized and the
broken leg his the spinal fluid. Doctor Outschuler, which Linda,
you know, really has a lot to say about what
doctor Autschuler found. But you know, no blood and in

(36:33):
fact that in some of the photos you could see
like a black tar substance. It was not blood, It
was a black tar. And in the audio recordings they
actually say, you know, no animals, what approaches they could
see coyote droppings around Snippy. Eventually they finally approached Snippy
and started you know, but the coyotes died a dysentery,

(36:55):
so they found dead coyotes after they ate on Snippy.
Radiation readings were high around Snippy's carcass, but when you
got close to Snippy they dropped. They became normal, where
that should be opposite. Another strange thing was when they
first saw Snippy, his skull was bright white, like it

(37:15):
had been laying in the sun for years. A week
later the skull turns pink, and then a week after
that it turns black. The brain was completely gone. They
found a white powder in the stomach, strange holes in
the ground, which actually they worked with the Lani Zamora
case and compared to took castings of these indentations in

(37:38):
the ground, so they weren't similar to the Secoro case.
But I think it's kind of cool that they, you know,
compared notes.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Yeah. Yeah, it's also not that far away either. What
about the mouth and the teeth.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Right, I mean the show and here so Dave Gosh,
it was but maybe three months ago. He's like, like, oh,
I found some more audio recordings. Because if you go
to the archives, and I recommend if anybody has time
and they're out in the Elbuquerque area, to go to
Dave's website make an appointment to visit the archives. You
could spend years in there. Actually. But he had come

(38:15):
across some more audio recordings because some of these aren't
marked properly, right, So he's going through and digitizing everything,
and he came across some new audio recordings and these
happened to be a couple of APRO investigators, Herb Roth
and I believe it was Don Richmond. And so what
was cool is on the audio recordings, as they're recording

(38:38):
the audio bit walking around the carcass why it's laying there,
they're taking pictures. So they would stay on the audio.
This is picture one and they describe it with the audio.
This is picture two and they describe it. And there's
like twenty six of these slides that have the audio
that go with it. It's just they was like, I
can't believe this. So, you know, back in the day,

(39:00):
it would make slide shows and that's what these were
intended to show. So they were very transparent with all that.
So in one of those slides they talk about the
three year old teeth, you know, and over and over again.
You know it's a he male building coult Snippy.

Speaker 1 (39:17):
So yeah, and one last thing not to you know,
stay on the morose side of this case, but it
is you know, it makes your skin crawl, you know
when you look at all of this. But it has
to be talked about because these are the facts of
the case. When we look at as humans, what we

(39:39):
understand about anatomy today in biology, one of the first
things that catches your attention with this case is the
lack of blood, and so you start there, and then
the other part is animals in the wild. As far
as I know, I could be wrong, Katie, I could

(40:00):
I could don't have scalpels right right right. And that's a.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Doctor Ausuler. He he had patents on like I always
say this word wrong, but it's like blood collaboration or
cut he collaboration, I get it anyway, But he had patents.
I mean, he was a medical doctor and so he
knows about these things. And even years later, in the

(40:29):
late eighties nineties, he was still baffled by the cauterization
on Snip Snippy's neck. I mean, there were no cut
marks into the bone because it went down, I mean
it was and even the vertebrae, where you think they'd
be like, whatever did this to Snippy? You think, I mean,
I hate to be gross here, but there'd be like
chunks of meat or something left the the it was clean,

(40:50):
and in the laser incision it was like a hard leather.
It wasn't malleable. And he's like, I couldn't replicate that now,
So it really baffled him, and he he's interesting. He
took his wife and three kids up there during the time.
In nineteen sixty seven, right after this happened. He was
reading the papers and got curious and hey, wife and kids,

(41:12):
we're going to go to the Saal Louise Valley for
a little family vacation. He goes to the Great Sand
Dunes actually and camps out and gets a little bit
of trouble. That's how he come.

Speaker 3 (41:22):
You know.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
The police approach him. You're not supposed to be here, sir,
and he's like, well, you know, I'm a doctor, and
they're like, what kind of goes a little blood and
they're like, hey, we have this horse we want you
to look at, right, But he didn't want his name
out in the public for a long time to come
out till years later with Linda Howe. But it's interesting
because why he was scouting out at the sanl Louise Valley.
He saw uap s in the sky, so he saw

(41:45):
unusual things himself, as did so many other people. And
we can get into that because they were so there
was even a box sighting an unusual box and orbs.
And of course Mount Blanco, which is a sacred mountain.
It's over fourteenth thousand feet and it's a beautiful mountain,
you know. So the u tribes were there, the Cheyenne, Comanche, Pawnee,

(42:08):
a lot of different tribes and this Mount Blanca is
so sacred they would not war there. And Snippy was found,
you know, at the base of Mount Blanca. And for
years they saw ships a lot like Mount Shasta, flying
in and out of Blanca. And I often wondered, you know,
could Mount Blanco hold secrets like Dulce Bass and some
of these other mysterious like Mount Shasta, they're in that area.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
Yeah, And not only was Snippy, but other cattle mutilations.
When Linda and other researchers showed up on the scenes,
started interviewing the ranchers and also law enforcement. There was
one thing that was consistent with all of this. On
the days preceding the event, there was a consistent train

(43:01):
of UFO reports and lights in the skies, and the
government and others would step in and say, ah, helicopters.
Well then okay, so what were helicopters doing there? Well, okay,
but they're misidentified. Well you're not getting the point. We
have mutilated cattle and stuff in the sky, and those

(43:22):
helicopters were probably government and so what were they doing there?
Were they there because of the UFOs or were they
involved with the mutilations themselves? And one last thing, these
are points that I'm making. I would love for you
to comment on all of them. When, like with Snippy,

(43:44):
many of these very large animals appeared to have been
dropped into their location with no footsteps or anything else around,
and predators footsteps too as well. I mean, like there
was nothing there, but they were apparently dropped. Now were
they dropped by UFOs or were they dropped by helicopters?

(44:06):
Both are intriguing. You know what, Katie, I'd rather have
it be aliens because any of it's government helicopters dropping
cattle like that. Somebody's got some serious splaining to do. Et. Well,
they're just doing stuff, right, I can tell you know
what I mean. I can deal with that. But the government,

(44:28):
you know, black helicopters mutilating cattle for whatever reason, and
horses and dropping them off in ranchers property. No, that's
that's a really really big deal, isn't it.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah. I mean, here we are, what fifty seven fifty
eight years later. Here's a great if you go to
my website and you reach out to me at Katiepage
dot net or Rockymountain Ranch Research dot org, I will
send you a PDF of this. But it's called the
Choppers and the Choppers, and it's a great little short
read document that they did a study all across the

(45:02):
Midwest on you know, these strange, blacked out helicopters. And
there were even newspaper articles that I uncovered from Rocky
Mountain Ranch that they were menacing these choppers were menacing
kids on ranches. And I asked Richard Doughty the same
time I cornered him, asking him if you knew of
the ranch, I'm like, why would these helicopter pilots be
messing with kids on ranches, and he said, a diversion,

(45:24):
a diversion from what what are they doing out there?
What kind of projects? So I do believe that a
percentage of some of these could have been our military,
but the vast majority or not, because here we are,
what five almost six decades later, with no answers, you know,
and I know there's a lot of theories running around
as to why are they joining the blood, why are

(45:44):
they taking the soft tissue of the eye, the ear,
the tongue, the rectum usually, you know, what is it
about that? And I talked to a gentleman years ago
who claimed to have spent time at S four and
he talked about the extra terrestrials maybe absorbing nutrients through
the skin, and that some of these animals, cows in

(46:05):
particular and elk even have high copper blood, high copper
levels in their blood. So are they using these soft
tissue organs for nutrient? I don't know, it's a theory,
but through all these decades, we don't have a lot
of evidence saying, you know, there's not a lot of footprints.
One of my most important interviews I did with a

(46:28):
witness out in Rayma Colorado. This was in the late seventies.
Her husband, they were miles off the county road. Her
husband was checking the couser calfs on horseback, comes across
a dead calf on the ground. It had four incisions
in a perfect square cut with the top of the
fur removed. He gets on his horse, goes back and
gets my witness, Sila. It took him twenty minutes to

(46:50):
get back, and in that time that calf had been cauterized,
organs removed, blood drained, no tracks around except for what
was left with the horse. Felt like they were watched
and what was cool? She had the photograph and she
had a photograph of what it looks like when a
coyote jumps up on a calf and kills a calf.
Vastly different, Oh, completely different.

Speaker 1 (47:15):
When somebody goes, you know, ants do that, and no
they don't. What answer you? What? What what do you mean?
We've all seen stuff go down in nature, all right,
Nature's got a way of getting stuff done. They do,
but it's not surgical precision stuff. And and that's it,

(47:38):
So don't tell me that answer. Just marching along in
a line and doing a laser cut along, Uh, an
animal's face and then going in and you know, extracting teeth,
you know, and and and and whatever else is going on.
I did, I did want to make this, uh a
quick comment. Uh now, it just got away from me.

(48:01):
It just got away from me. And it was good too, Katie.
It was solid. It was solid. No. Oh, my uncle Bill,
My uncle Bill. That's what it was about.

Speaker 2 (48:11):
Uncle Bill.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
We all do. Yeah, mine's pretty crazy anyway. My uncle
Bill straight up legit. He's been on Fade to Black.
By the way, his entire career was a military helicopter
pilot for the army and going all the way back
to the sixties in Vietnam. He's still alive. I still

(48:34):
talk to him a lot. He's a great dude anyway,
the last twenty thirty years of his life up until
just recently. He's just recently retired at like the age
of seventy. Um was a trainer, right, Okay, that's it.
He taught. He taught piloting for the Army down in

(48:55):
Alabama at a base down there. That being said, I
asked him Unfade to Black. I go, so, what's up
with the black helicopters? He goes, what about them. Are
they real? He goes, of course, I don't really. Are
they flying right now in the United States? He's like, yeah,

(49:16):
of course, he goes, But they're not black. I go,
what do you mean. He goes, well, they're black, but
they have tail numbers. But the tail numbers are in black.
They have to be identified, so all the markings on it,
whatever branch of the military or ever, that's painted there,
but it's painted in black on the black And if

(49:37):
you see a black helicopter, you walk up to it,
you can see the tail number, you can see all
the identification stuff. But when it's up flying, they don't
want you to know what it is. And that's why
all the identification numbers are in black. I said, So
they're real, He goes, I just told you they were real.
And it was just so funny how he was like,
why are you asking me such a dumb ass question?

(50:00):
You know, it was it was like that, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (50:05):
So some of these trappers back in the day, though
they're they're the bell choppers, they're not necessarily military. And
then you know, some of them are reported as being silent,
and so that's something I was like really curious about.
Do we have silent helicopters. We have quiet helicopters that
can be a little bit less loud, but you're still

(50:25):
going to hear the rotations. No, I mean, you don't
have an absolute silent helicopter.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
No, No, Katie, you're very you're very smart. That's it's
a very important point. Yeah, we can silence them somewhat,
bring down the volume the dB of the chopper rotations
right the blades, but they're not going to be silent,
you know. And that's it. So that's where you know,

(50:54):
the ET component comes in pretty solid here. I honestly,
it's an enigma. It is still a totally unsolved case.
And like like we brought up earlier, just when he
thought all of this stuff had gone away, it just
pops back up in Texas three years ago, and it

(51:16):
was like five different cases in a few days, right, and.

Speaker 2 (51:20):
Then I don't know if you heard, Jimmy, but this
year in southern Colorado in between Trinidad. Of course, you
know the Miller ranch Sally and Tom Miller that have
been featured on Beyond Skinwalker as well with their sixteen
mutilated cattle throughout the years. But in that area there
we had one hundred and eighty missing heads of calves
just vanish. It's still unsolved. One hundred and eighty gone.

(51:44):
And I and what what shocked me about this? So
I started going, what the heck? You know? And I
started researching on the internet. I didn't know cattle wrestling
or you know, people still steal a lot of cattle.
But one hundred and eighty that's a lot. How did
you get away with that?

Speaker 1 (51:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (51:59):
Heads of mostly calves just gone vanished?

Speaker 1 (52:02):
So wait, wait the bodies there headless?

Speaker 2 (52:06):
No, No, they're gone.

Speaker 1 (52:07):
They know the whole cab. Oh I thought you said
headless calves.

Speaker 2 (52:11):
I don't know if they were stolen.

Speaker 1 (52:12):
Oh, I got you, I got you, I got you.
Well you know what we did have here? And man,
I was just really freaking out for a second. But
you know what, we had a rash up and you
can look it up. You can look it up. I've
done shows, did a show with Linda on this maybe
ten twelve years ago in Santa Ana. Other cities too
as well, but here in southern California and Santa Ana,

(52:34):
we had a rash of cat mutilations.

Speaker 2 (52:38):
I've heard of this.

Speaker 1 (52:39):
Oh it was nuts, yeah, house, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
and the newspaper reports and the media reports and the locate.
It was out of control in the eighties. Yeah, this
is the eighties.

Speaker 2 (52:54):
And I know in the seventies they talked about like
satanic colts and things like that. I think we can say.
And you know, I flew to Florida early on way
back and interviewed Bill Waugh. He was one of the
under sheriffs there in Elbert County, along with George Arnell.
They're both featured in Linda How's movie A Strange Harvest.
So I went out and interviewed his son and his
widow because he had passed away about you know, the

(53:16):
box and the mutilations, and so in his in the
police station in Elbert County at the time, during all
of this, they were keeping map. They had a map,
and they were keeping track through the whole Midwest. So
there would be a mutilation like up in Montana, up
on Melmstrom and one in Elbert County almost at the
exact same time, and they would pin him in the maps.

(53:37):
You know, Texas, Oklahoma, Colorado was hit the hardest, but
just a crazy amount, and sometimes they were happening simultaneously
at the same time, and you said it, Jimmy, it
wasn't just cows, it was horse, sheep. I even found
articles of dog. You mentioned cats, and then talking to
Paul Sinclair in the UK, they had a rash of
kangaroo mutilations.

Speaker 1 (53:57):
That's right, that's that's right, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (54:00):
Sea creatures. I mean these are you know, I wonder
about elk and deer and wild animals as well.

Speaker 1 (54:05):
Yeah, at what point does the public get alarmed? You
would think that the cat mutilations would uh kick things up.
But when you put pins in the map, right, then
you start to get the visual. It's stronger than a
computer or other things. Right where you've got this analog
tactile thing and you you know, you put it and

(54:26):
you tie in the dates. That's when you're able to
look back and go, okay, now that's not a coincidence.
I'll give you an example. Are you ready? I'm gonna
I'm gonna tell you something right now. You didn't though,
all right, I'm ready. Rendellshim nineteen eighty right, twenty eighth,

(54:49):
twenty eighth, twenty.

Speaker 2 (54:52):
Ninth, there was a mutilation.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Wait wait, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm going to even
mess you up further than that. Okay, so we know
the dates of Rendallship all right on the exact same date.
One of the most famous cases in the United States
also happened with the same type of craft. What case
was that same date, same date? Nineteen eighty don't google it.

(55:19):
I will jump through this camera. Do not google it.

Speaker 2 (55:24):
I'm not I'm not going to google it. I can't.
Travis Walton was seventy five, seventy four. It's Carl Higgeden
nineteen eighty Was that that was?

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Come on, Yeah, I'm gonna blow your mind. I'm gonna
blow your mind.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
Carl the uh Carl, I can't think of his name
right now. The the pp B word where they get
taken from the boat in the the elephant. Nos, guy,
what is that the case? I'm having a moment.

Speaker 1 (55:56):
You ready, I'm gonna tell you. I'm gonna tell you. Yeah,
you ready.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
Cascagoula.

Speaker 1 (56:01):
Nope, Cash Landrum.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
Cash Landrum.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
That's right on this same date, same day.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
That's amazing.

Speaker 1 (56:13):
Vironmental triangle craft, you know, lands on the road helicopters
involved the military, United States Air Force, health injuries, everything else,
you know, think that was the one on the road
that was on the road in Texas.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
They didn't want it. They thought it was something the
government was experimenting with and they weren't gonna say it
was UFO. But if rendleshom happened on the same date,
and it makes you wonder that.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
What did I just tell you? I'm going to blow
your mind, right, I have the.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Same thing happened with November eleven, nineteen seventy five, Edmund
Fitzgerald goes down, Travis Walton is returned. After midnight, two
interceptors are scrambled over Elbert County in pursuit of a UFO,
and two F one O six delta darts are scrambled
out of Selfridge, Michigan after they're seen many UAPs on
radar over Falconbridge, Ontario, all on the same day. All

(57:01):
four events.

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yeah, you know, I love it. Yet, So back to
my point, right, I love it when these things happen
like that and you're able to tie these things in
to push it beyond coincidence. And it's the same thing
with the cattle and animal mutilations. It's fascinating with me.
So let's take our break right here. I guess tonight,

(57:24):
the one and only Katie Pages with us. I am
your host, Jimmy Church. We're talking about snippy and other stuff.
We're going to do UFOs all night with Katie Page. Katie,
you stay right there. I'm your host. Jimmy Church will
be right back after this short break. Stay with us.

(58:10):
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(58:51):
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Jimmy Church Guy TV. Fade to Black Here at Machu
Peach you with Brian Forrester and Hidden Inca Tours. Amazing

(01:00:02):
tour so far, Brian, but we're here to announce what
we're gonna do next year in twenty twenty six. What's
going on?

Speaker 3 (01:00:08):
Okay, November twenty twenty six, We're going to have our
major tour of Peru and Bolivia, either a pre or
post tour of Perakas and Nasca on the coast, and
then after that six days.

Speaker 1 (01:00:22):
In Easter Island bucket list Easter Island. Come join Brian
and Ian his amazing team here at Hidden Incotours four Peru,
Bolivia and Easter Island. Signing out, Say goodbye Brian, Bye
gang Yeah. Rivermoon Coffee, makers of the Fade to Black Blend,

(01:00:47):
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(01:01:34):
welcome back Fade to Black. I am your host, Jemmy
Church and I Katie Page is with us from the
great state of Colorado. I just got back from Colorado
this weekend. I love Colorado. Everything about Colorado is amazing
to me. I want to mention a couple of things.
At the top of the show, we mentioned that Katie
lost her original YouTube channel, so we've got the links

(01:01:58):
up for her new YouTube channel, and Bill John Jessica
put up the new links again in the chat for
me for Katie. I want everybody, all of you fador
nots and everybody that is listening, to go and follow, like,
and subscribe to Katie's new YouTube channel. It's got to

(01:02:19):
start from ground zero, and that sucks when that happens.
So let's keep this before we get back. I want
to bring out a few things about Snippy, but I've
got you here. On Monday, a week ago today, we
had another UFO hearing with Congress I know that you've

(01:02:43):
watched it. I know that you've got your comments. Overall
pretty amazing. I think it may have been the best
hearing so far for a lot of different reasons, and
of course a pretty amazing video accompanied all of the
test money. What's your takeaway of this last hearing? I

(01:03:05):
liked it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:05):
I thought it was excellent. I thought it was interesting
though the kind of the double standard I heard. And
I don't know if this is a common thing between
the Navy and the Air Force, but like was it
Chief Wiggins from the Navy. He didn't seem to be
like criticized and harassed as much as like mister Borland

(01:03:29):
from the United States Air Force. I thought his testimony
was like it upset me that, you know, he lost
his credentials and he was so ridiculed, and I found
that both sad and disturbing. And I thought, is there
a double standard between more openness in the United States Navy,
my grandfather's Navy, my father's Navy. I love the Navy,

(01:03:51):
and thank you all men and women out there for
whatever branch, for your service to this country. But you know,
is that a common thing? And I would love to
see that change. And I really felt that was a
lot of the undertone and focus was how to protect
these people and how to encourage men and women in
the military to come forward safely. So I thought that

(01:04:11):
was all very very good and much needed.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah, Wiggins, Wiggins just amazing the things that he had
to say. But he is he's currently in the Navy, right,
and everybody that's a whole other thing. He's an active
service member to get up there and to share this.
But you're right, a big difference between the Air Force

(01:04:36):
and the Navy with dealing with this. The Air Force
they don't give a crap about anybody but themselves. They're
not going to give up this information. They've been used
to it. They shut down blue Book. They've always been
in control of the narrative and that's it, and they're

(01:04:56):
not going to They just don't think that they can
be told what to do when it comes to this.
And a good case and point for that. Back in
two thousand and eighteen, it was revealed that the Pentagon
had a secure keyword there, right, a secure Pentagon chat

(01:05:20):
room for whistleblowers to go and branch members and also
agency members to talk about UAPs, right, And so they
were and they this was their safe space to go
and do that and to share information. You know. Who

(01:05:41):
shut that down? The Air Force. Yeah, the Air Force
comes in and they said out a memo, if you
are caught right, you know, and don't do it. And
that's that's the Air Force. You know. They just you're
right about that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:58):
It's a whole different Yeah, that Red Square case was
incredible to hear about the I mean, the testimony of
the white light turning into that large triangle and then
and then to have that he I think he described
it as a gold liquid kind of cloak or covering.
That just blew my mind. I found that fascinating. But

(01:06:18):
it's so funny. You know, I'm right I live. I'm
behind Pike Speak now, so I'm close to Norad and
you know, military central right here, especially the United States
Air Force Academy. And back in the day, they owned
a lot of the property kind of almost budding up
to the old Rocky Mountain Ranch. They owned some of
the property out there. Hence maybe some of these black

(01:06:38):
access projects going on out there. But was fascinating and
talking to some you know, cadets and stuff. They're still
to this day. If you you know, you have to
go through the Air Force Academy in Colorada Springs. They
still see cryptids that alongside you know, the Air Force
Academy there. It's kind of like a known thing still
in the academy that you might see a sasquat creature

(01:07:00):
glaring down at you from the academy.

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Right, that's just fascinating to me. You're right though, the
difference between the attitude, the different attitudes within the branches
and how we're dealing with it. But you know who
we haven't heard from. There is another branch of the
military that nobody knows about. It's top secret. It's called
the coast Guard.

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Oh yeah, that's where they're coming from, right.

Speaker 1 (01:07:28):
And nobody. It's so weird, how I wonder what it's like,
you know what? All right, I'm going to be a
dick for a second. So you get all the branches together, right,
they're all sitting around table, right, the Marines, the Army,
the Air Force, the Navy, Space Force. Right, is the

(01:07:52):
coast Guard allowed to sit at the table? They are?
They do? They have a little kiddy table off in
the background where the coast Guard has to sit or
is does the Coast Guard sit at the table with
the big boys, and I'm not talking bad about anything
what I am saying or the Coast Guard specifically. I
always thought the Coast Guard was one of the coolest branches.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
I was gonna say that the table's a fun table.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
I've always I've always felt that way. I've got a
lot of friends that were in the Coast Guard. But
we don't hear from the Coastguard. And you would think
that with the position that they're in. They are there,
their ships are covered with sensors, right, they're monitoring our
borders and defending this country, and they're looking in all

(01:08:41):
directions all the time. Uh, where's the Coast Guard in
all of this? Strangely silent?

Speaker 2 (01:08:48):
I would add, Yeah, that's interesting. That's a great, great point. Yeah.
I mean when the Navy talks about things they're seeing
near their subs and everything, the fast movers underwater, and
I believe that they're here already. They're terrestrial. They're coming
in and out of our waters. That footage was mind blowing, really,

(01:09:10):
and you know, I just with so much out there,
and I know it's hard we see so much now
on the internet. We don't know what's true what's not true,
what's cgi and all that. But still everything that's coming
out all this footage, people have just got to be
really curious as to what the heck's going on and

(01:09:30):
at the very least have more questions, you know. And
that's the important thing with like Snippy and these historical cases.
And I'm happy they at least touched on it a
little bit during the hearing. But now that we're all
able to talk and the way we communicate, that's my
big point with is people need to learn the history
of ethology and to we can make new connections, like

(01:09:52):
with the Snippy case. I know it's an old case
and people are like, why are you looking at this
for over fifty some years later, because my my mind's
been blown at how many similarities and connections to the
Rocky Mountain Ranch to Skinwalker Ranch, to Marley Woods, to
Ohio Pile, Pennsylvania, to you know Bradshaw on Sedona and

(01:10:13):
even you know over in the UK they're seeing boxes,
they're having similar things happen, and now we can communicate
about it, so it's not too late to go check
out these historical cases. And that's what I'm passionate about.

Speaker 1 (01:10:25):
Yeah, for sure, for sure, and we're we're here's another
crazy thing. Randall Shim is about to be fifty years old.
And I've over the years, I've always referenced Randall Shim
and Travis Walton these other as modern cases because when

(01:10:46):
we look at Roswell or nineteen fifty two, you know, Washington,
d C. And even Lonnie Zamora, all the witnesses, everybody's gone,
the original researchers or anybody that was at the lawn
for everybody's gone. Rendallsham was always a case where everybody's

(01:11:08):
still here. But we're pushing fifty years on this case. Now,
fifty years now, you know, And if you were twenty
twenty years old, if you were a kid involved with
that case, you're going to be seventy. If you were
twenty five, if you were thirty, you're going to be
eighty eighty five years old. With Randallshim, which is it
seems like it was yesterday. I graduated high school in

(01:11:30):
nineteen eighty one, right, So this is a modern case.
To me. I don't want it to go away. There's
just too much here for us. Yeah, yeah, just way
too much here. I'm wondering if we do. Because here's
the thing. Wiggins was amazing on one point for me.

(01:11:58):
For me, it was his livery, his matter of fact
in command discussion of what he saw not only with
his eyes, but with the sensor data that he had
he was a radar operator, and the communication that was
going on in that room at that time, and the

(01:12:21):
way that he just let it come out like that,
it was so compelling for me. We could do the
same thing with Rendellshim. You know, why not in the
next hearing. Let's bring the Rendal Shim guys up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:35):
Bring them all up, Bring them all up there, Yeah,
line them up. I'm for all that. You want to
hear something cool that happened. So just this last Saturday,
while you were visiting beautiful Boulder, Colorado. It's gorgeous. You know,
I agree, Boulder is beautiful. I Tony Angeola and I
spoke at Colora to mouf On about the Snippy case.
We presented on Snippy and in the audience was this cowboy,

(01:13:00):
black cowboy hat, cowboy boots, you know, a rancher just
was had a calling to come to Colorado. He was
from Oklahoma, but for the first time he's seventy two
years old. His name's Kendall. I won't say his last
name because I'm not sure if he wants me to
put his last name out there. But Kendall comes to
the meeting. He for some reason, you know, synchronicity or what,

(01:13:21):
he decides to look up color moof on saw I
was talking about. We were talking about this case. And
when he was fourteen years old, his uncle was growing
growing barley in the San Luis Valley for Cors Brewery
Company Company, the beer company Cores and he went out
there for two weeks and he said, did you see
the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind? That's what

(01:13:42):
I experienced. He believes he has a square implant in
his ankle. He this. You know, even the King ranch
at the time, they didn't have running water, they didn't
have electricity out there. It's a rough life out there.
Agnes King had twelve children and lost six of them,
you know, and it was a hard, hard life. Still
has a hard life out there in the valley. And

(01:14:03):
he experienced what he said that you know in Close
Encounters of the Third Kind, that bright light and the
little boy and all those electronic toys going off. He
said he lived that and had a missing time. A
very scary event happened to him in nineteen sixty seven,
right around the time of Snippy, just actually the end
of August, because he knew school, you know, when school

(01:14:23):
was coming back in at fourteen years old, and he
shared that for the first time ever in his life
this last Saturday. So to your point, yes, some of
these folks are getting up there in age, but even
you know, in Ilbert County, I was able to interview Carl,
who is a rancher. He's in his nineties and still
has a lot to say about what was going on.

(01:14:44):
So that's why it's more important than ever to grab
these witnesses. Why we can, you know, and get it documented.

Speaker 1 (01:14:51):
How's Tony?

Speaker 2 (01:14:53):
He's good business, you know, I've.

Speaker 1 (01:14:56):
You know, I've known Tony for a long time. And uh,
one of the things that I will say about Tony
is he is adamant about the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
No, you could say that again, that is his That is.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
He if it's going to offend people, or he doesn't care.
And he he is into the subject fully, you know,
fully into the subject. But man, he just I just
wouldn't want to piss him off if if he if

(01:15:37):
he if he he'd be the wrong, you wouldn't want
him investigating you, you.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Know, because it's true. Yeah, he's been involved in this
subject longer than I have. And you know, he did
a lot of work on the Socor case and we
know we just lost Ray Stanford and has just an
incredible amount of things that he wants to bring forward
him along with them lost but with a snippy case.
That's why I said, you know, it was like a

(01:16:03):
crime scene investigation for almost seven months, seven days a week,
every waking hour until one and two in the morning sometimes,
and it was just like wanted to get to the truth,
the truth, like which I've never seen anybody want to
figure that out so much. So you're absolutely right about that.

(01:16:24):
I was just like blown away, very much a truth seekert,
and this is a hard subject to get to the truth,
especially when.

Speaker 1 (01:16:31):
This, you know, and Ben Moss is the same way Ben, Yeah, Ben,
you know, and those two and that you know, they've
been working together forever and I just love them to death,
but that is all always been their focus. You know,
just take it where the facts you know are out

(01:16:53):
in front of you, and let's go there. They've done
some of the best research. There's stuff with rain oh Man,
you know so, and you're right about that. I just
wanted to ask about Tony and Tony Benn are just
absolutely incredible. What is it about Snippy that has there's

(01:17:15):
a lot of first there but also has remained so important.
What is it about Snippy?

Speaker 2 (01:17:23):
Well, for me personally, I don't know. Yeah, there's the
cover of the book Snippy the Horse, like we talked
about earlier. You know, it was such an honor to
kind of do this, all this research Tony and I
for the King family, to bring forward all the new evidence.
It's not new, I mean the lost evidence. I should
correct myself, the lost evidence that was gone through the

(01:17:47):
APRO for all those years, and to bring that forward
with such an honor to do. But for me, it
was the amount of evidence and all the things I
didn't know that really connects to Elbert County, to Trinidad,
to all these high locations, the outlier stories, missing time stories.
There was even an encounter, a box encounter that was

(01:18:09):
very very unusual, you know, health effects, people going blind,
Coli king animals going blind. Just so there was so
much more to this case, and for me that was
what was so surprising because when we first opened this up,
I was like, Oh, it's just you know, not that
it's I'm not dismissing that the first recognized animal mutilation

(01:18:31):
isn't important. It very much is, but I had no
idea the circles on the ground. For example, if you
watch Beyond Skinwalker and Rocky Mountain Ranch, you know, my
sister and I the whole story of the landing site
there where the dirt was dry, nothing grew and there
was heavy snow on the outside, and it was recorded
in the Aproo case from the Rocky Mountain Ranch that

(01:18:52):
that circle was seventy five feet in diameter. Now to
come to find out there was a seventy five foot
circle diameter circle around Snippy along with five fifteen feet circles. Also,
I'm like, seventy five foot diameter circle. That matches. And
even more, if you've watched George Knapp his new movie

(01:19:14):
or his new I think it was on Netflix series
Investigation Alien, and I think that first episode they're in
Oregon with the new mutilations happening in Oregon, and they're
talking to a five time rancher who actually sees a
craft come over and he shoots at it. I mean,
this is a stand up like guy. And he had

(01:19:34):
a seventy five foot diameter circle on the ground as well.
And then on UAP Studies podcast with Jason Gillmett and
I'm a co host on that show, and we had
doctor Joshua Pearson, PhD. He did his dissertation on UAPs
and he was presenting his findings and on the disc
shaped craft. One of his findings and these are from

(01:19:56):
cases all around the world, is a seventy five foot diameter.
So and you should have seen my face.

Speaker 1 (01:20:01):
I was like, well, what does that? What does that
mean that the craft was seventy five feet or there
is some type of propulsion system that is radiating the
ground at seventy five feet? Is there something else that
is causing this consistent seventy five feet seventy five foot

(01:20:22):
dead zone?

Speaker 2 (01:20:23):
Yeah, I don't know if it's landing in at seventy
five feet or like you said, if it's eminating. I mean,
because you hear sometimes like you know, you have a
beam of light that's coming down, but it's not your
typical light where it disperses. It almost feels so like
cut off. Now, is that just seventy five feet in diameter.
I'm not sure some of them are landed cases, some

(01:20:45):
of them might not be. It's really interesting. I mean,
that's something that fascinated me when I did the three
and a half year Love and Light book I did
on doctor Leo Sprinkle's research. I spent you know, three
years going through forty years of his documents from around
the world, reading people, letters and stuff that culminated in
that Letters of Love and Light book. But something I
found interesting was how the phenomenon kind of changed through

(01:21:07):
the decades. The seventies. I love the seventies for obvious
reasons because of the ranch in my childhood and stuff.
But it seems like there were more landings than more
entity sightings then, and it seems like things have kind
of shifted. It's not that we don't hear about it now,
but it just seemed a little different in the seventies
than what it is to.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
Yeah, you bring up Leo and for those that are
maybe well you watch Fade to Block enough if you've
heard the names. But Leonard Stringfield, Leo Sprinkle, those two
cats and others too as well others. But when you

(01:21:49):
go and jump into UFO history, and Katie just mentioned this,
you know learning you know UFO one on one and
jump back into those two guys, Go and read their stuff,
go and follow their history, jump back and you'll see
that with the both of them, it goes back to

(01:22:10):
the origins of everything and a life of absolutely trying
to get to the bottom of this and dealing with
Washington at the same time. We think that now it's
all new, this is all happening for no no, no,
no no no no, no, no, no no. This has

(01:22:30):
been going on for a while, this cat and mouse
game with the Pentagon and the Air Force and the
White House and agencies and everything. This has been done
over and over again. And those are two guys that
have been in the middle of it since the beginning.
So yeah, their work is just so good, and go

(01:22:53):
and check it out. But you mentioned locations, and I
think that that's important. But when we really look at this,
it's too easy to focus on the hotspots. It's too
easy to focus on Crestone. It's too easy to focus
you know what I mean, to go to these places

(01:23:14):
around New Mexico and Arizona. When you have places like
Joshua Tree, California and Landers, California, and other spots around
Texas for instance, where a lot of things are happening
all of the time. Now, when I ask you this
is it? Is it? Is it a geography thing? Is

(01:23:40):
it a component of what the earth is made of?
You know? Is it granite? Is it aquifers under the ground,
Is it the cattle specifically, or is there something else
going on lay lines? I don't know, but we seem
to have these hotspots and I can't figure out why.
What do you think is going on?

Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Yeah, that was one of my first things I looked at. Actually,
if you go to the United States electromagnetic maps and
I looked at all these hotspots, ninety percent of them.
There's a few outliers. Trey Hudson down south is one
of the outliers, but the vast majority ninety percent plus
ping the charts of being highly magnetic. So you have

(01:24:22):
this very light color pink being highly magnetic. So Skinwalker Ranch,
Rocky Mountain Ranch, Marley Woods, Sedona, for sure, they're all
highly magnetic areas, certain geological aspects. San Luis Valley, I mean,
the Great Sand Dunes, it's crystals, right, So you have
the crystals, you have limestone and all these great things

(01:24:42):
and granite, these big mountains. Obviously Mount Shasta has very
unique features there geologically. And then aquifers. I know, David
plates talks about aquifers, you know under the Carl Higden
case and one of the biggest ones fall right down
the midwest there. And actually at Rocky Mount and Ranch,
we have two aquifers, the Dawson and the Denver, and

(01:25:06):
they come together right there at the Ranch. One has
a higher water table than the other. You know, is
there caverns or or caves that run under the ground,
I don't know. Are cryptos coming in and out of this?
I don't know. But again but I found interesting in
interviewing Tom and Sally Miller from Trinidad. I was asking
them like, why do some ranchers seem to get hit

(01:25:29):
with mutilations and others do not? What is that about?
And they felt that the people are just as important too.
So you talk about high Manet magnetism, you know water, uh,
you know, the geology, but then the people too. Are
we part of the equation with what we manifest or

(01:25:50):
what we believe and what we expect to see? I
think we can't rule that out too. I've seen that
time and time again that the people make a difference,
and especially when you have certain people that get hit
with the hitchhiker phenomenon and others don't. What is that about?
Are we wired differently to interact with it? I'm not sure,
but I think it's all important.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
Yeah, what if what if we replace the cattle mutilations
with human mutilations? Now that would catch some attention, wouldn't it?
Or would it you know, I've thought about this a lot.
Or would that be ultra squashed?

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
It's ultra squashed. It's happened. I've seen some pretty horrific photographs.

Speaker 1 (01:26:36):
Yeah, I've been.

Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Brought to my attention. So, yes, it's happened. I wish
I could unsee some of the images I have seen,
But yeah, I think it's squashed more. I mean, it's terrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
The the idea and this is you know, I have
a dark mind, you know, I just do. I do.
I do. But when we really look at this and
we start to break it down and analyze what is
actually going on, is it something that matters? And I

(01:27:12):
say maybe not. Now, Jimmy, why would you say this? Well?
What do humans? Do you know what we do? We
send out universities the Smithsonian we do going into the
jungles of Africa and South America looking for what new species,

(01:27:37):
something new, something to learn? And what do we do
when we find something? We grab it, we bag it,
we tag it, and we take it back to a
laboratory in the United States for study. And what do
we do when we do something like that? We've just
broken up a family. Maybe we took the mom of

(01:27:58):
something and backed intown. Now mom doesn't go home to
her family that night and or the kids or whatever.
And then we bring it back and we do some
kind of biological thing and open it up. And what
is different from that than ET showing up and grabbing

(01:28:22):
animals here and dissecting. What's the difference? Why? Why? Why
are we freaking out on that? There's nothing to freak
out there. It's that ET may be doing this, and
it's confirmation of contact. That's the important point. Uh, you know,

(01:28:45):
I'm not shocked that ET would be doing this. I'm
a little more freaked out if they take one of
us and dissect us, that would that would be a
bad day. But why would we freak out on that
if he doesn't look at us as being anything special,
Like when we go to the jungle and grab whatever

(01:29:06):
we you don't feel like capturing and taking back in
and throwing in a lab. What's the difference. I don't
I don't see it. I don't see the difference.

Speaker 2 (01:29:18):
Have you seen that that meteorite that that strange thing
is growing out of. I don't know if it's real
or legit or not, but it's growing and moving and
it looks kind of like a scary sci fi movie.
And I'm like, holy moly, we better nip that in
the bud because I don't know. That's pretty creepy. Now again,
I don't know if it's real. I've just seen it

(01:29:38):
on the internet.

Speaker 1 (01:29:40):
It's probably real. It's probably real. Yeah, we're going to
find out soon enough of what's going on with that.
But so back to this, like Rocky Mountain or any
other area that we're talking about here, these are also
remote areas. Skin Walker's remote. Okay, these areas are remote areas.

(01:30:04):
We're not seeing this type of activity over, not necessarily,
but not over Los Angeles or New York or Chicago. Why, well,
you would want to do just that, you would want
to do any of this kind of research if it
is et or even the government that matter. But away

(01:30:25):
from witnesses, that makes sense, doesn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:30:29):
Yeah, it certainly does. And I mean part of my
research has really uncovered that there was Black Ax's project's
going on as well. I mean some of the documents
from Rocky Mountain Ranch. The one gentleman who was the
third partner in purchasing this property was from Air Defense
Command out of San Francisco, who is part of that
in the late sixties, comes out here in the seventies

(01:30:52):
and bias this property. There was a gentleman by the
name of Warren. His last name was redacted out. He
said he visits the ranch for first question is why
see even there in the first place? From Fort Carson,
and he said he felt something wrong, something took over
his mind, made him walk towards the woods would release him.
And this did this to him five times, these strange

(01:31:12):
unusual boxes that disembodied electrical voice. And I you know,
I'm not saying it's extraterrestrial in nature. It could have
been us. I learned about something called plasma ball technology
where they're using lasers to pipe out like and I
listened to it on the internet. If you just research
plasma ball technology lasers, it sounds very electronic, like what

(01:31:33):
I heard when I was a child, You know that
kind of you know, your friends will be instructed to
remain silent concerning us. Was that the government where And
also in the Apple report, this particular person that's supposed
to be Air Defense Command says that he is using
legal LSD. And so after contacting the Desert two years ago,

(01:31:55):
Tony and I interviewed a CIA widow and daughter. Their
family owned a lot of property over the Dulce base,
had a home in Crestone, Colorado, which by the way,
is crawling with Fedes, Oppenheimer and Tesla, and that's a
whole other rabbit hole to go down. But she said
that her dad in the CIA, they were experimenting with

(01:32:15):
these drugs called FM which stands for freaking magic. So
we know they were. You know, my half brother was
in the state hospital in Pueblo. We know they were
doing experiments on people in state hospitals. We know, and
so I always wondered what like were they doing like
this whole experiment with the town. And just recently this
program I was put in while at the ranch. I

(01:32:36):
still have my tapes right here. It's called the Twilight
Learners and that scary night on the ranch with that
disembodied electrical voice. I started getting really bad migrant headaches.
This gentleman, Thomas H. Bodinski, started the Biofeedback Institute in
the Denver Tech Center in Colorado, which I went to
for a year and a half. Come to find out,

(01:32:57):
Thomas H. Bedinski was a navigational engineer at Area fifty
one on the SR seventy one Blackbird and he worked
with the Menainger Foundation, than Monroe Institute, the Stargate Program,
and the Gateway Project, all of this. And there's an
old video online where they're working with a little boy
named Kevin around the same age I was then ten

(01:33:19):
eleven years old, and there's a video of him hooked
up with a biofeedback like I did, Hey Kevin, can
you make the rocket go? Can you make the rocket land?
Things like this, and I'm just like, holy crap, there's
so much more going on that people. I'm just you know,
that's why you've got to connect the dots here. What
was going on and what were they up to? You know?

(01:33:41):
MK ultra kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:33:43):
You know, I'm a military brat, and I lived on
and went to a Department of Defense schools and military bank.
I missed out on all that action I did, pulled
out actual I wasn't special enough. Oh I No, I

(01:34:03):
was on the special bus. But that's a whole nother story.
But no, I was never you know, I missed it.
I totally missed out on all that fus stuff. And
I poked around. One of the things that I did
always on Army bases and air Force base and Aavy bases,

(01:34:26):
was me and my friends would go and look for
secret shit. We'd look for bunkers. Man, we broke into
some men. I did side and never got arrested, got hassled,
got caught. But when your military kids, right, service member,
you know your kids, most of the military police that

(01:34:51):
are busting you or catching you are like three years
older than you. I know, I'm serious. If I'm fifteen
and I'm caught in a secret area, I'm getting caught
by some kid that's nineteen, right in the military beliefs,
and it's just like, man, just you know, we weren't
Russian agents, you know, you know what I mean. No,

(01:35:16):
but we I was constantly looking for stuff and found
a lot of it. It was a lot of fun,
you know, didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
Find I mean, that's something at a Rocky Mountain ranch too,
And I know Christopher O'Brien really looked at that with
these cattle mutilations as well, where like you know, nuclear
you know, fallout or missile silos and things like that.
In the Elbert County area, we had the Titan missile
silos that are supposedly inactive or not used anymore. However,

(01:35:44):
if you go and look at these are you know,
they keep the grounds pretty nice and the signs look
pretty new, and it looks like somebody's keeping an eye
on it for some reason. But yeah, I don't know
if that's part of the equation as well. So did
you ever find anything like that, like in the bunkers or.

Speaker 1 (01:36:01):
Oh, man, are you kidding? Tons of them? Tons of
them Our favorite thing to do, all right, I'm just
gonna say it right now. I don't care what anybody
thinks of me. All right, we would break into bunkers
and smoke weed.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
Oh oh, we'd.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
Have a cooler, you know. Look you've got a long
hallway right and flashlights We've got a cooler full of
beer and stuff. We're going down a long you know.
Door door, lock door, lock door, open door, go in office. Yeah, yeah, man.
And we did that constantly, constantly. It was so much fun.

(01:36:44):
It was great. We would go and get caught. Okay,
So on top of this big hollow hill it's called
Ancon Hill. You can look at it. It's a man
made hill. It's hollow, and it's giant full on south
Com Southern Command Defense Facility, gnarly look it up and

(01:37:10):
A and A and con. This is in Panama, on
Central America and Con Hill. And so so we would
go and hike up, hike up the hill, and I
would go past. We would an entrance and look down
this lit hallway. This isn't a side of a mountain, right,

(01:37:33):
and down at the end of the hallway is security
sitting at a desk. And you're looking at the length
of this hallway. You know, it's fifty yards one hundred
yards into this hill. What door is he sitting outside
of at the end of that hallway? Right? So, anyway,
all the way up the hill, the doors and entrances

(01:37:53):
like that, but at the top of the hill there's
a security gate with security in it. But on the
other side we would jump the fence and there was
a radio tower. Go and look it up an kN Hill,
go and look at and the radio tower on the
top of an Kin Hill is just giant. But we
would so the security gate was on the other side,

(01:38:15):
and we would sneak in and climb up this radio
tower to the top with our courses, five of us,
six of us, and we would sit up there and
drink beer and smoke weed and look at the Panama
Canal and everything around us unobstructive view until we got cut.

(01:38:36):
And I remember, so we're up there, we're goofing around
playing Black Sabbath too loud or something, and I'm looking,
I see the jeeps pull up. I go, dude, here
they come right and they come out and they're showing
the flashlights and they come right up to the bottom
of the tower and they're like, okay, come on, come
on down, come on down. And we did, we did,

(01:38:58):
and they let us go. But yeah, you know, we
were always in pursuit of that because your kids, your boys,
you're into the military, you're into the secret stuff. This
is a bunker hill, giant, and so yeah, we wanted
to go and check it out. And all of our parents, right,

(01:39:19):
all of our parents. I don't want to say any names,
but there were two of my friends that were part
of this small group. Both of their dads were a
military intelligence like colonels. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:39:32):
So I think the important part of that whole sounds crazy.
But what where do those doors go? And what's behind them?
I know, I know, always in dalins and hills. It
just makes me wonder how many tunnels.

Speaker 1 (01:39:49):
Are I have no idea what is going on underneath
your feet. Across the street from my house, I lived
on this base called Amador, which was a fake island,
look it up Fort Amador. And so in front of
my house was a giant golf course, all right, and

(01:40:10):
I'm out there with my friends and you know, during
the day, at night, whatever, but this is my front yard.
And so I was out there walking down and I
hit something with my foot and I backed up. And
in the middle of this golf course, it's a vent.
It's a tube with this cover on the top, and
I could hear something coming from it, and I'm backing

(01:40:32):
up and I'm looking around. I'm like, what does this
go to what is underneath this golf course? Right? And
I started to look, and there's a vent over there
one hundred yards away. There's another one over here. And
then on the side of the golf course was this
giant trench that was a quarter mile long. And I

(01:40:52):
walked down there and I looked and there were these concrete,
giant concrete entrances with cars one car, two car parked
outside of each one. And you go up and it's
a locked metal door and there's a car parked outside
of it underneath a golf course, and it's huge. It's

(01:41:18):
hundreds of yards in size.

Speaker 2 (01:41:21):
And it makes me think about, wow, that's crazy, because
I mean, well, but it makes me One of the
very first things reported at Rocky Mountain Ranch were these
strange bangs and hums underground. Sometimes the humes will get
so loud you couldn't talk over. But I was just
watching I can't remember a documentary on the San Luis
Valley or something just the other day, and they talked about,
you know, the great sand dunes, they actually makes a

(01:41:44):
harmonic calm given the right circumstances and winds, And I'm like,
could that answer some of the hums that people hear
isn't natural in nature, because this wind comes over the
dunes and it makes this harmonic sound like a hull.
And I'm like, I wonder if that's over the Palmer
Divide because a lot like the arts of Leta Mesa.

(01:42:05):
Of course, we have the Palmer Divide in Elbert County,
and I'm wondering if that could create a natural hum
or Taos, New Mexico. So that could answer for some
of it. But wow, under golf courses is an excellent
place to hide things. But then, as you're talking, I'm thinking, well,
with the technologies that we have now, I think it

(01:42:25):
would be much harder to hide these underground layers or
bases or tunnels because we could we could see the
heat changes now, you know, through drones and wlidar and
radar and you know all these different things. So I
would think maybe they'll start being discovered. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:42:43):
Okay, so check this out. I just pulled this up
off of the net. Are you ready check this out? People?
Just check this out. This is nuts. That's ford Amador. Okay,
now my house and and I'll show you. I'm gonna

(01:43:05):
I've never seen this image I just pulled this up right, Okay,
So anyway, my house was right here. There's the golf
course that I'm talking about. Okay, all right, this is
all fake. This is all man made. You can see
that right Okay. Now that's the trench I was talking about.

(01:43:29):
And there's the entrances right there. Wow, there's another one
right there. See that. You see that? Yeah, So to
my point, you see that. And so this is in
front of my house, and look right here these are
entrances right wow. So actually this photograph was taken before

(01:43:50):
my house was actually right here. These are the taller
apartment buildings. There was four three houses here, three houses
here in My was in the middle. But so if
you zoom in there's all of it. You can't really
see it. But this is where I was walking when
I kicked over you know, the airbns. So but now

(01:44:13):
when you look at this, there's that trench. That's an
entrance right there. That's a freaking entrance. All of this
is fake, that's all. And undergoud, I can't speak for
what's over here. This is called the parade ground. My
dad's rehearsal place was in here for the army band.

(01:44:34):
This is all military quarters. The general's house was right here.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
That's air Force or navy, Army, Army, Army.

Speaker 1 (01:44:44):
Army, this is army. And but yeah, so there it is.
And so that's what I'm talking about. And and and
all of this was hollow. All of this is artificial.
And this trench that was right here, my street came
down here and one day I was walking down in
this trench and that's what, like, what is this? What

(01:45:05):
is this? What is this? And there are literally cars
inside so you can't see it, but there this is
a trench. It's a two sided trench. You can't see
this other side has got a groove too, And then
there's a road that goes down below this. But that's
exactly what I'm talking about right there. And I was

(01:45:25):
just blown away by that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:27):
Blown underneath all that. What's underneath is that water all
the way around here.

Speaker 1 (01:45:33):
Yeah, so that off to the left here, this is
the Panama Canal. Okay, this is the Balboa Ya Club.
That's a pier and this is the Panama Canal. And
this is the Pacific Ocean down here. All of this
that you're looking at, this whole area, this was created
from the dirt and rocks that were dug from the

(01:45:53):
Panama Canal. So they brought everything up and they built
this whole artificial army base and it's called Fort Amador.

Speaker 2 (01:46:03):
Man, I want to go underneath that.

Speaker 1 (01:46:05):
Yeah, man, I'm telling you, I'm telling you. Look at that.
That's a hangar. That's a hangar. Yeah, it's a hanger.
But yeah, yeah, So that's where I lived. I lived
right here, and this is the trench. And I can't,
like I said, I can't speak for the rest of
the base. But all of this is artificial. It is

(01:46:25):
all completely man made. Yeah, that's where I lived.

Speaker 2 (01:46:31):
That's one spot around the world. Can you imagine what
is hidden? It's just amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:46:36):
Yeah, we went. I will do one more thing. Okay,
So I'm gonna pull this up here because this is
pretty incredible. And I'm gonna call this amed door to
Door two. When we talk about artificial bunkers, So this

(01:47:02):
is another at the end of the how do I
say this, At the end of the army base, At
the end of at the end of Fort Amador's a
thing called the causeway. And the causeway was again all

(01:47:24):
man made, and at the end I'll show it to
you here so you can check it out. And this
is an underground installation once again. So back here in
the background that's Ford Amador that I just showed you. Okay,
all right, okay, there's the golf course right here, and

(01:47:46):
the tide is up or the tide is down, so
you can't see the water back here. But anyway, that's
the golf course. And this is where my house was,
right like right in this area right here. Okay, but
now all of this, these are three man made islands.
This is man made. This is the beach that we
swam on as a kid, Amador Beach. But this is

(01:48:09):
what I'm going to show you, these three artificial islands.
Four are all military installations. So you can see it
here right and they're all hollow there. It looks it
looks natural, but it's not. It's made from rocks and stuff. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:48:29):
it's all hollow, the whole thing. So originally that's what
this was. This is all military stuff came out here
and came into these bases. So what we would do
as kids the causeway we would park here and then
down here. You can't see it from the side, but
there's a gate, but you could go down in the
low tide like it is here and walk on the

(01:48:51):
sand and walk around the gate genterally. We would go
into this island and there are people on the island,
especially on the back half. Security people. We saw them
come and go all the time. But we were kids,
so we weezed our way through man and get into
these bunkers and go back in there. And it was insane.
This island is hollow. This island is hollow. This island

(01:49:15):
here hollow. We would go up the stairs to the top.
There was four or five missile batteries that you can
see here. That's what these circles are on the top,
and a long concrete thing here. And the entrance to
all of this was on this side, right in here,
and they had like jail doors, iron bars blocking all

(01:49:39):
of these entrances. We bent them. We were kids, you know.
So we got a jack from high school metal shop
and cranked it in there and separated and we crawled
in and we were able to go and hang out
in all of these bunkers.

Speaker 2 (01:49:57):
You're probably hanging out with missiles. I mean you imagine
if you pushed the wrong button.

Speaker 1 (01:50:02):
I'll tell you how crazy it was. And some ship
you just can't make up. So we find this missile
launch system and it hadn't been used, but you could
see where the missile was and they and how it
came out of the ground right, and it was painted
white or gray, but all the mechanics are there, the
gears and everything, and you could see how the missile

(01:50:25):
sat right. But down there was a digital crank analogue
like a digital clock, and it was like, uh, let
me pull this down. Let me pull this down, everybody,
so I can do this correctly. Where is all of
my stuff? I don't see it here anymore? Where to go? Okay?

(01:50:48):
If I do this, does it go okay? Anyway? A
range finder in the concrete in this in this in
this missile silo, so facing and there were these windows
like this tall in this operational room whatever, and you
could look out and right straight across it said range

(01:51:09):
It was painted and then it was this long digital
you know counter thing that was there. And yeah, yeah,
as a kid seeing all of this, it was so
much fun. Yeah, yeah, it was great. And you just.

Speaker 2 (01:51:23):
Don't thinking kids can get in there somehow in whoops.

Speaker 1 (01:51:27):
But here's the thing. This stuff is all over this country.
That's all over the place. There are underground things everywhere.
You don't know what you're walking over. You don't. You
don't out here in the mountains in California, not to
dwell on this, but all along the mountains the Nike

(01:51:48):
missile systems. You can still hike up there. They're all
marked and you can go and look. And this is
in Los Angeles, in the San Gabriel Mountains. So we
had them all over the place. Yeah, and you go
up and check it out. You would drive past this normally.
You know, you don't know that that is an underground

(01:52:09):
bunker missile silo, uh, thing in your neighborhood. No, you don't.

Speaker 2 (01:52:14):
I often wonder about that with Mount Blanca. I wonder
about you know, the over Rocky Mountain rant with the
Palmer Divide. You drive, you're driving down I twenty five
down the highway and you're passing this thing and it
looks like like, what's in there?

Speaker 1 (01:52:28):
Yeah? Bill, Bill just put.

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
Security in it? What is in there?

Speaker 1 (01:52:34):
Uh? Bill, just put the bill? How do I copy this?
Ford Amador Missiles Army history content? How do how do
I copy this? That's great? Yeah, so Bill, Bill's just
pulled that up. This is Uh, when I talk about
this stuff, and I don't talk about it often because

(01:52:56):
this what I'm showing you, This is just an everyday
life for me growing up Katie, and you know, and
I'm glad that people can go out there and look
at this because it kind of backs up my bullshit
a little bit. But what about you. You mentioned I
don't want this to get away from us. We've only
got a few minutes left. I've spent way too much

(01:53:17):
talking about myself. What about you keep mentioning mentioning boxes? Yeah,
what are you referring to?

Speaker 2 (01:53:26):
It's interesting when I filmed for Beyond Skinwalker for all
three seasons. You know a lot of people don't know,
but they filmed for a week to get it down
to a forty four minute episode, and you know, they
have it all can So I brought them to where
I had a box encounter in the daytime. I saw
one of these strange, mysterious boxes. I didn't talk about
them for years and years and years because they're just

(01:53:47):
so crazy. Bill Wall, the under sheriff, saw one of
these boxes. A lot of the adults said they saw
the boxes, and I just kind of kept it on
the down low because I didn't know they were seen
anywhere else, but now we're hearing boxes left and right,
and even in the UK. Paul Sinclair had a box encounter.
Went to the archives and Dave Marler's like, hey, Katie,

(01:54:07):
I save the chalk giwing of these flying boxes. We
just heard the Red Square talked about, you know, at
the hearings. So what are these boxes? Trey Hudson had
a with a box. Now there what's interesting about the boxes.
They're different sizes, they're different shapes. I don't know if
some are hours, some are theirs. Carl Higden had a box,

(01:54:29):
another great case with some great evidence, a showcasing turned
inside out. You know, he was shooting at an elk.
It hit an invisible wall, it fell to the ground.
He meets also one he's floated these food pills. Are
they using the cattle mutilations to make food pills? I
don't know, but he there's a photograph in the archives
of a box impression that burned grass just like the

(01:54:51):
big seventy five foot circles of what is a cube?
He said he was transported in a cube along with
the elk. So it's interesting the box. I we had
an encounter with and when my sister came on for
season three, she remembered a box. So you know, she's
having a PTSD moment, having this memory of this crazy box,
and that's something she suppressed for a lot of years.

(01:55:13):
But I had a daytime box encounter. It was eighteen
inches long, maybe eight inches high. It was illuminated from
the inside. It made a strange like b sound or
a hum, like if you're standing under electrical wires. And
I just know my mom's boyfriend at the time, I
was with the youngest son and we're driving around the

(01:55:35):
Ponderosa pines behind the ranch house and he's like, it's
a box. It's a box. Getting the truck in the truck,
we jump in the back of the truck. I look
back and nothing was gone. In the APPAO report, it
states at the sasquatch because we had cryptids out there
as well. There were actually another strange thing about the
Snippy case. There were two prints, just two, and you

(01:55:56):
had to remember the ground was moist so you could
see all sorts of prints. There these two unusual prints
around Snippy's carcass just too they don't look like sasquatch.
They don't look like bear. We don't know what it is.
We don't know if it's a large cryptied bird because
there's crypted bird sightings. But anyway, but it says that
the sasquatch said that these boxes are lethal, and in

(01:56:18):
the Apple report it says it had the box dropped
a sasquatch to its knees and some of the adults
witness this. Now, I don't know if I believe that
or if it was one of the f m LSD trips.
I don't know. I have a skeptical side of me
as well, so I don't believe everything I see or read.
But that is reported, Well, this.

Speaker 1 (01:56:39):
Is, this is really really inter I haven't. I don't.
I don't think I've seen a box. I've seen a
lot of stuff. I'm just trying to think. No, I don't,
I don't, I don't. I don't know if I've seen
a box.

Speaker 2 (01:56:56):
Like underground when you were poking around, he didn't see
any weird boxes laying around.

Speaker 1 (01:57:00):
You know, when you hear cubes and boxes, you know,
and Trey, who is such a great investigator, but when
you look at some of the Navy reports off of
the East coast, you know, you know, something inside of
a sphere, inside of a cube, and we hear the
stuff all the time over and over again. But I haven't.

(01:57:22):
I haven't seen anything like that. When you saw it,
was it solid.

Speaker 2 (01:57:30):
It was solid. It was like a flat black to
my memory, that was illuminated from the inside. I saw
it for very brief in my memory though it was
off the ground. But I don't know if I'm just
remembering that wrong. Because the other reports, like the Bill
Waw the sheriff he sees this box by a tree.
He doesn't want to approach it by himself, so he

(01:57:53):
goes and gets a posse sheriff. They go to approach
the box and as they're approaching the box, he said,
it's as if the tree and the box went underground
or vanished. I had a woman come up to me
after a conference one time and she said, you know,
could the boxes be admitting a frequency or a hum?
Because in a lot of these ranters that I have

(01:58:14):
interviewed through the years, they say that the pastures where
the mutilations are being done, the cattle are huddled together
and they're calm, and in the adjoining pastures they're all
freaked out. And so are these boxes used to kind
of huddle them, to calm them. I don't know. It's
a theory that this woman had and I thought, huh,

(01:58:34):
that's interesting. Maybe because it did admit a sound, it
admitted a frequency, or is it something we're messing with?
Is it a black access project? I have no idea.

Speaker 1 (01:58:44):
It reminds me it's so natural to go here. But
two thousand and one of Space Odyssey, right, the black Monolith, Yeah, yeah,
it's too And whenever I bring that up, whatever I
bring up Arthur C. Clark, I should say, Arthur C. Clark, Yeah, creative, Yeah,

(01:59:06):
great sci fi? Yeah, Arthur C. Clark, new ship he
just didn't Yeah, yeah, that's yeah, right right right. It's
just crazy how Arthur C. Clark and you can even
go back to Childhood's End now and you go and

(01:59:27):
you read that it's a it's they call it a
but it's a short story. You go back and you
read that and all of that older stuff, including his
newer stuff with Gentry Lee and Rama. How he just
correctly called the future, I mean just amazing. Do you

(01:59:50):
know satellites he named he came up with that word.

Speaker 2 (01:59:56):
Yeah, it makes you question the nature of reality itself.

Speaker 1 (02:00:01):
How you know, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and you look
at the it just I'm wondering when we're going to
find a monolith on the Moon. I'm wondering when we're
going to find something like that on Earth where we're
gonna dig something up and it's going to send out
radio signals to Jupiter and then to Alpha Centaury. I

(02:00:22):
don't know, but these are the things that Arthur wrote about,
and it just seems to be coming. Uh, you know,
part of our reality every day that moves forward. And
I don't know why did he know stuff? I don't know,
is he's so creative that he just thought, Man, this

(02:00:42):
is how it's going to play out in the future.
And it is playing out that way. That's equally as cool.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
But I think they already found some weird obelisks in Utah,
some weird stuff in Utah, doesn't Yeah, in Elbert County
a few years back there, Ausy, Yeah, I know you're
a Harley rider. There was a couple of Harley writers
out there at the Castlewood Canyon and they were just
they pulled over their Harley's and took they were taking

(02:01:10):
pictures of the sunset. This is an actual case that
came across in Colorado, and in this is like this
weird boxy obelisk kind of cube coming from I don't know,
it's it's the weirdest thing I've ever seen in my life.
I have. I have no explanation for what they caught
or captured, but yeah, so and it kind of reminded

(02:01:32):
me of what they discovered in Utah. So I don't
know what that I know, I know.

Speaker 1 (02:01:36):
And then they disappeared a week later, and and the
but the monolith on Phobos on Mars, right, you know
it's Arthur C. Clark. Katie. Katie, you're the absolute very best,
and I look forward to uh to having you back
on the show anytime you want. You just just let

(02:01:57):
us know. We've got the links to your new YouTube
channel again, everybody, Katie lost her YouTube channel last week.
She's got a new one up. I want all of
you to go follow, like, and subscribe to Katie, follow
all of her great work and of course the new
book with Tony I Snippy all of that. We've got

(02:02:20):
your website below. Katie. Thank you so much. You're the
absolutely very best.

Speaker 2 (02:02:24):
Thank you, Thanks for thanks to everybody.

Speaker 1 (02:02:28):
Enjoy the rest of your night, Katie Paige, everybody, what
a great conversation. And tomorrow night, I'll tell you right
now what I've got going on Tomorrow night. I will
tell you in two seconds. Tomorrow night is Tomorrow night.
Is Reverend Peter Panegory All right, Tomorrow night. Peter died,

(02:02:49):
then he came back. He wrote a book or two,
and he's a reverend, he's a TV host. He's out there.
Tomorrow We're going to get the whole story. What did
he see, what happened, and what is there to share
with the rest of the world. All of that Tomorrow
night with Reverend Peter. Until then, I'm your host, Jimmy Church.

(02:03:13):
All I've got is go Beckley Tappy. Fade to Black
is produced by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman, and Michelle Free.
Special thanks to Bill John Dex, Jessica Dennis and Kevin
Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Albriche intro Spaceboy.

(02:03:40):
Aide to Black is produced by kJ c R for
the Game Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted
twenty twenty four by Fade to Black and the Game
Changer Network, Inc. It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or
used anywhere in the known universe without written permission from
Fade to Black or the Game Changer Network. I'm your host,

(02:04:01):
Jimmy Church, Go back, Lee, Tappy