FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Mark Christopher Lee

Tonight, researcher, author and director Mark Christopher Lee joins us to discuss his new film: The Rendlesham UFO: Britain's Roswell.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:27):
This Hope Radio for the NASSES headline of July eighth,
nineteen forty seven.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
The Audi Airport has an outstart applying this turpin found
and there's now in the possession of the ad air
with the game and really changed the game Gauge Changer.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would
vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside
this working.

Speaker 4 (00:59):
This is Day to Black.

Speaker 3 (01:01):
It's your host, Jimmy Church on the Game Changer Radio Network.

Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, well, well, good evening, Fade to Black. How you
doing today is Wednesday, September seventeenth, two thousand and twenty five.
Let's do this man. Yeah, I'm your host, Jimmy Church.

(01:28):
Before we get things started, a couple of things, so
just let me get into this. First off, ABC has
indefinitely canceled Jimmy Kimmel. Holy crap. Yeah, So you can

(01:48):
go and read the background on that, and you can
go and follow up. I've got zero comments to make
completely shocked, completely shocked. So ABC has canceled jim Kimball.
The word came out about this about an hour ago.
Kimmel was taping his show. Right he walked in and

(02:11):
said a show's canceled sent the audience home. Yeah, what
a way to find out. Okay, So anyway, there's that.
And the second thing is this our podcast network that
handles our stuff, Libson, that has been with us a

(02:35):
great relationship. By the way, we love Libson for I
don't know, twelve years, ten years, twelve years, a long time.
And the president of the company called me about a
month ago and said that they're making changes. I thought, oh,
what you know. I thought it was something else but
equally as drastic. So I just wanted to let everybody

(02:56):
know it's actually in motion now. They told me it
was going to be fully in placed by the end
of September. Here we are on September seventeenth. Okay, so
this is what's going on. They no longer are offering
their paid subscription service, which is what we were using

(03:19):
for years, and it was just two dollars a month.
I could put any price on it, but I wanted
to make it as cheap as possible so everybody could
enjoy the show commercial free. So we did it for
two dollars a month for ten years. Right, who does that? Well,
we do. And it was great, and we got an

(03:39):
app and you had commercial free Fade to Black and
it was great and it was a great relationship. But
they've stopped that. And so they told me that the
app was going to stop updating and then and you
wouldn't be able to update the app or get new shows,

(04:00):
and then the Apple would eventually just go away all together.
You can have it on your phone, but it's not
going to connect to anything. By the end of September,
and I've already got a bunch of emails that it's
not updating. Libson will be returning your two dollars or

(04:21):
stop charging you two dollars, and I think that is
starting now. You will get an email from Libsen explaining everything.
Fade to Black is still with Libsen. They are just
moving us over to their Libson Artist section and will

(04:44):
actively promote Fade to Black. We've got a great relationship
on Apple and the other services that they use out there. Okay,
we will edit out the commercials for from Fade to
Black and give them a clean upload. But they're going

(05:04):
to commercialize it. Okay, there's going to be commercials. I'm assuming.
I don't know how they do it or how they
are going to do it. We are on everything else
that's out there. We're on Spotify we do really well,
and we're on another, you know, twenty thirty different podcast
services out there. We have a company that handles that

(05:26):
for us, but that has always been independent of Libsen
because with Libsen we had our app and everything else. Okay,
So the other update is, if you want Fade to
Black commercial free, completely commercial free, just become a fade
or not. Become a member. Sign up. You can get
all the downloads that you want. And then we are

(05:50):
and have been, but now it's been pushed to the front.
We will have an app. We will have an app
that you will get and I'm hoping that that going
to be live in the next couple of weeks. And
that's it. The app was already pretty close to being
done anyway, but we had libs in and there wasn't
really an urgency to push that all right, So that's

(06:12):
the big announcement for now. I'll do or we will.
The team here will get stuff out on social media
making this announcement. But yeah, I just didn't think it
was going to happen so fast, but it is, and
everything will probably be done in the next couple of
weeks with Libsy in as far as the app goes

(06:35):
and the two dollars per month, two dollars per month.
All right, all right, all right? This week on Fade
to Black, so Monday night we had Katie Page here
with a Snippy the Horse. That was a very cool show.
Let's not we had to cancel. We had technical issues
with our guest. But tonight we have Mark Christopher Lee
live from the United Kingdom with us just outside of London.

(06:57):
By the way, He's got a new film that's coming out.
It is called The Rendell Shim UFO Britain's Roswell, and
we're going to be talking about Rendell Shim and the
UFOs this evening. Tomorrow Night is our once a month
amaja where you get to ask me anything. And we've

(07:18):
got so much stuff going on right now. I cannot
wait for Tomorrow night because I get to hang out
with all of you. I do have six events coming
up in twenty twenty six in addition to everything else
that I do. First up as the Conscious Life Expo.
This is February twenty through the twenty third, twenty twenty
six at the lax Shilton, the biggest conference in the World.

(07:39):
I've been hosting it now for ten or twelve years,
so that's February twenty through the twenty third. After that
it's the Contact Modalities Expo May first through the third,
twenty twenty six in Delavan, Wisconsin at Delavan Lake at
the Resort. After that Contact in the Desert May twenty
eight through June first, twenty twenty six. Tickets on sale

(08:00):
this Thanksgiving Day. Then I head south to Peru for
the Inca Celebration of the Sun the Winter Solstice. That
is June twenty third through July one, twenty twenty six.
After that, I come back, change my underwear out of
my suitcase and head over to the United Kingdom for
the Mani Python Tour of Scotland and that is August

(08:21):
first through the ninth. I'm gonna get Mark to come
hang out with us. It's going to be a lot
of fun. Come back from that, go back to Peru
and this time it's Peru and Easter Island and that
is November twenty twenty six. Kids, I got a busy
year next year, all right, So there you go. Tonight,
Mark Christopher Lee joins us. He's got a new film
coming out the rendellshim Ufo. We've got, by the way,

(08:45):
links to his website that's got everything that he is
doing right there. The links are in the description box below,
on social media and over on our website. All right,
because this new film, which is the full title The
reyneldschum Ufo The British Roswell, is now streaming on Apple TV.

(09:07):
He's a British filmmaker for sure. He's a UFO researcher,
researcher for sure, but he's also a musician with more
than three decades in the creative and paranormal fields. All right.
So his other stuff and everything that he's done is
over on his website. And I'm gonna do my best

(09:28):
tonight to keep as much of the music out of
the conversation as I can, but it's going to be difficult.
Welcome Mark, How you doing man?

Speaker 1 (09:37):
Yeah? Good, Thanks, Jimmy, Thanks for having me.

Speaker 2 (09:39):
Now, I thought you were on the show before, but
you haven't been on and that's it's okay. It's dude,
I'm old, but so, which means you get the first
time guest disclaimer. Yeah, so let's get that out of
the way. Mark, it's just you and I sitting on
my couch having a conversation as friends, and we're the

(09:59):
conversations and starts and starts where it ends and ends.
But we're gonna end as friends. Now you have to
accept so we can move on.

Speaker 1 (10:06):
Yeah. Yeah, that's so cool.

Speaker 2 (10:07):
Yeah, yeah, right out right. Hey, Uh, it's gonna be
a great conversation tonight. And I'm going to just open
with this. Uh, this audience knows when I am asked,
and I am asked every single day of the year.
So Church, it's your favorite case, man with your with

(10:28):
your favorite and I you know, I Randall shim that's
my favorite case. And and there's a lot of great
cases out there, but Randall shim Is is high, high,
high on my list. So we're going to spend a
lot of time jumping into this. But before we get there,

(10:48):
what is it about musicians and the paranormal? What is
it about musicians and UFOs? Why? Why? What? What? What's
going on on here?

Speaker 1 (11:02):
Yeah, it's a good question. I think it's just pushing
pushing limits, pushing boundaries. It's the rebellious side. You know.
People tell you, oh, there's no such thing as ghosts
or the paranormal or UFOs and think, well, you know
there is we need to find the truth. It's like
a quest, a journey, a kind of road trip. I

(11:22):
guess do you.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
Think it has? And I agree with you. Do you
think that there is also the possibility of because the
mind is open and you are used to getting into
the zone, that you open the door to the paranormal
as a musician or a poet or a writer, yeah,

(11:44):
you know, a pain or a sculptor.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Definitely, I've had my best creative ideas when I've been
in that zone kind of receiving whatever you want, some
messages from the universe, however you want to word it.
But being in that frame of mind where you are
open to receiving ideas, and I think it is it
definitely like that for me.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Anyway, do you remember Graham Bonnet. He was the singer
for Rainbow Right and Alcatraz and great singer, amazing singer.
Some of the greatest rock and roll hits of all
time came out came out of him. But anyway, so
he's a friend and he's he's been on Fade of
Black at least once, I'm thinking twice. But anyway, he goes, uh,

(12:29):
is what he said. He goes, so, Jimmy, I want
to talk music. He wants to talk to UFOs, right, Okay,
So he goes, Man, you know my biggest hit I
wrote when I was living in Malibu and I'm riding
my my bike, uh you know his uh uh pedal

(12:51):
pedal bicycle. He's riding his bicycle of p H and
he sees this UFO flying saucer, light up lights all
over it and come down over the ocean right in
front of them, and that inspired him to write this song.
And he's telling me this whole story, and he's like,

(13:12):
but I've never really told anybody about that. You know,
it's my own personal experience. But he always felt that
that was done just for him. And I'm wondering, is
it because he's open to it that consciousness plays such
a big part that they make that connection through consciousness

(13:32):
and then reveal themselves.

Speaker 1 (13:35):
Absolutely. I think that's the missing link of a lot
of UFO researchers are not getting, really, is that consciousness
is key to it. In my opinion, having been researching
it for thirty years. And also to add, I do
have a science degree from university, so I'm quite rational
as well. But all my investigations have led me to

(13:56):
this conclusion. As mad as it sounds, is a conscious
psychic element to the paranormal and to UFOs, and I
think they're both the same phenomena in my opinion.

Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. In the end, we wanted to be
We wanted to be so complex and so deep and
so heavy and so scientific and so ununderstandable, right, we
wanted to be all of that. And what if we
find out it's just some basic bullshit that connects everything together,

(14:30):
and it's just one thing and the next thing, you know,
everything's connected and all the doors open. That's what I
think It's going to be something very.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Simple, absolutely, And I think Carl Jung synchronicity, you know,
kind of opened the door to this. And you know,
over here at the moment, I won't talk about policies.
We've got Trump over okay, is with the king having
a good sign and all that. But King Charles was
heavily influenced by Lawrence van der Post, who was an

(15:00):
Afrikaans environmentalists, but also he was massively into Cole Young synchronicity.
So I'm just playing with these ideas that our king
is massively influenced by synchronicity about how things are all connected,
and a most passionate man about the environment and things
like that and spirituality. So maybe he will be the
one that will get as UFO disclosure.

Speaker 2 (15:22):
Yeah, didn't he can't. I don't do politics, but I'll
do the conspiracy and the monarchy all day long. All right, okay,
all right, a little disclosure there. But didn't he get
he got the full debriefing on Randallshim didn't he back

(15:45):
in the day, you know, on papers were passed around
and it was.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
It was the Queen did basically got the full debriefing
on on Rendersham, which we do look at in the
film a little bit, but basically it was it was
covered up. And we'll go in more into what I
think Rentalson was. I guess you know in the show,
because there was a cover up by the US and

(16:10):
the UK and at the time it was Margaret Thatcher
was Prime Minister. She was heavily involved and she was
the one that ordered it to be covered up along
with crop circle research also she covered that up as well.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
Man. But yeah, I love crop circles. I still can't
figure that out. I don't know if I want to
figure it out. I just enjoy it so much. But
you know, I have friends over there that each season,
you know, send me these these pictures and videos and
they're just phenomenal. Man. I would just love to go

(16:49):
out there for that. But anyway, I get the occasional
video of RAF helicopters flying over crop circles the next
day where they're out there looking at these new crop
circles right here they come. Yeah, I find that in
a right, they're just crop circles being hoaxed by people.
Why the interest from the RAF.

Speaker 1 (17:12):
Well, yeah, and the royal family. Going back to the
royals again. I've got in my last Sam The King
of UFOs, which is out you can watch. We've got
a story about how the Queen sent her own scientific
advisor out in the middle of the night to a
crop circle that's just been formed in Wiltshire and the

(17:32):
Japanese TV crew were there and this you know guy
pops out of a black limousine and it's the queen
scientific advisor. So she wanted to be briefed on, you know,
what was going on.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
Wake me up when you get when you get back
to can you get back to the Palace. I'm on
a full report. Yeah, wow, that's crazy. It's crazy for you.
I'm gonna I'm gonna throw softball. Let's just start here.
Why Randalsham? Why now? Why this film? Now?

Speaker 1 (18:07):
Basically because I made my last one on the King
of UFOs and during the process I met a police,
retired police detective in the UK called John Hanson, and
he runs this most fabulous place you have to go
to when you're over. It's a UFO archive in Stratford
upon Avon, Shakespeare's birthplace, and he's this no nonsense copper

(18:31):
detective and he's got thousands and thousands of documented UFO
sightings and he's got letters from the King, from Prince
you know, Prince Philip, the Queen, and some of them
are talking about Rndalsham. And he's actually written two books
with Colonel Charles Holt, and there is just so much

(18:53):
information that he's got on Rendalshan think, you know. And
I knew about it, but didn't know so much. There
was so much that I didn't know. And John educated
me and he came on board as executive producer and
we wanted to basically not tell the story a little
bit about what happened. But then the weird thing for

(19:13):
me is that people have been back since then and
had weird experiences seeing the UFOs orbs had things manifest.
So I wanted to take my team there and do
our own investigation and see if we could find anything anomalous.
And we did.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
Okay, well, let's circle back to that. That's okay, Okay,
I see I want to know. Let's let's let's hold
off on that. I would love your take on the
on your overview on what happened at Randallshim, give us

(19:49):
your take, your brief lesion.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
Okay, Well, you know, for anyone who doesn't know, it
was over Christmas weekend nineteen eighty that it was AF
Bentwaters and RF Woodbridge in Suffolk in England to US
air bases as part of NATO, and then basically US
soldiers saw lights in the forest. Renders from forest over

(20:14):
that weekend, wasn't sure what was going on, and various
things happened, and they sent out to investigate. Some of
the servicemen say the saw a craft land Colonel Holt
obviously famously recorded it on what he saw and on
his dictaphone he saw light, beams of light coming down,
the craft is shooting off weird, weird stuff. And yeah,

(20:41):
definitely something happened that weekend that can't be explained. And
it wasn't the lighthouse that some people have tried to
rule out. I've tried all you know what the skeptics
have told me. Oh yeah, it is the sas playing practice.
Various theories that tried to debunk it, but it can't
be debunked. Something definitely happened that week and and if

(21:02):
you want me to tell you what it is, I
can tell you what it is.

Speaker 2 (21:04):
Well, you know, yeah, let's let's let's let's I'm interested
in everybody's take on Rendallship because we have access to data,
we have information, Uh pretty much everybody's alive, all the
key players, we can talk to them all today and

(21:25):
so everything's there. But what we do as individuals is
we back up and develop our own ideas and theories
about what actually played out. So that's what I'm asking you,
what's your take on it? And yeah, and there's one
other thing that I made this revelation about a month

(21:50):
ago and it's now just now starting to soak in. Okay,
there was another ginormous, huge UFO incident the same night
as randallshim Do you know what that was the same

(22:12):
night involving the Air Force involving a strange shaped craft. Okay,
so what what event was that?

Speaker 1 (22:24):
And when I tell that the cash Landrum, yes, it
was yeah, cash.

Speaker 2 (22:30):
On this same night. Now that's when you got to
go with your scientific mind right and back up and
go okay, well that's not a coincidence.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
No, it's definitely not a coincidence. And that's something new
that I've just joined those thoughts myself, and it's like,
there's the cash Landrum and then you know, I don't
know how many ten years later, we have a similar
type diamond shaped craft. It's the famous Calvin photo, you know,
the one in Scotland's. I think they're all links. I
think it's possibly the same technology we're seeing. Yeah, yeah, coincidence,

(23:03):
you're absolutely.

Speaker 2 (23:04):
Right, Absolutely there is. It is absolutely nuts. And when
you think about it, you know it's the UK's the
United States. And then what are the similarities between the
cases strange shaped craft, right, the United States Air Force? Right? Health? Health?
You know, think about what happened to Burrows and his

(23:26):
health and look what happened with everybody in the cash
lantern cases burned. She had a sectomy, she had breast.

Speaker 1 (23:33):
That's horrible what happened. Absolutely, I really feel for those people.
And you know, they were getting nowhere where they were
getting compensation, and they.

Speaker 2 (23:40):
Sued and the government was like, well, you know, uh,
top secret, we can't even say if we were involved.
And so that was it. The lawsuits went nowhere. But
yet this family, families, there was two families involve just suffered,
you know, for years. But anyway, yeah, the same night. Okay,

(24:02):
so back over to the UK when your take as
everybody started to venture into the woods, what do you
think they were seeing? What were they chasing?

Speaker 1 (24:17):
I think, in my opinion, I think they were chasing something.
They were testing out that the US and the UK
military had developed some sort of emp craft. And that's
what I've been told by this a guy called Professor
Simon Holland. I don't know if you've heard of him,
of course, yeah, yeah, yeah, and this you know, he

(24:38):
first proposed this theory. Because you've got to think about
where it was, Rendalston. It was surrounded by Orford Ness.
They had a secret radar station which is already developing
radar technology. And then there was a place I can't
remember the name at the moment nearby as well, which
was a secret weapons testing for scill see in the UK,

(25:01):
So it was in the middle of there. It was
at the Cold War, you know, rendersrom had nuclear warheads.
So take the context of everything, I think they were
testing out something, something really really really toxic, which is
why the cash Landon thing. They won't getting any answers
there has been shut down. And I really think Colonel

(25:25):
Charles hallt was didn't know about this because he's been
very consistent and I think, you know, they never told
him what was going on, which is why he still
you know, doesn't know what happened. No one's told.

Speaker 2 (25:38):
Him, okay, high so why okay, So let's say that
that is the case, then why come back? Right because
we have night one, we had stuff that happened on
night two. Night three was the big their back, you know,

(26:00):
during the holiday party, and that's when Halt went out
there with his recorder and did all of the Why
come back if it was testing of something secret, because
then you're kind of hurting the cat out of the
bag and it's not so secret anymore.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, that's that's a good point, and I haven't really
answered that, to be perfully honest, that's a really good point.
I just think there's two. I mean, there is. There
is the situation where because they were developing cutting edge technology,
and you know, this goes back to the Manhattan Project

(26:36):
in my opinion, where they wanted to weaponize physics and
create weapons out of you know, really really super advanced science.
And this is part of this, I think, and possibly
they've created something that's open to portal. It's weird phenomena.
It sounds a bit out there, but all but that

(26:59):
that then explains all the other sightings that have happened since,
and all the weird paranormal phenomena that's been experienced by
people in the woods, including by John Hanson, this ex
no nonsense police detective who's been to Rendlesham after nineteen
eighty I think it was nineteen eighty nine him expelled.
He manifested orbs. This is before C five was even

(27:23):
a thing. Or psionics. They got together, I did some
meditation and orbs appeared in the woods. Wow. And then
you know, we experienced something unexplained which we manifested through
you know, using a consciousness.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
In the words, you did this in the wood.

Speaker 1 (27:44):
We did it, Yeah, at the same place where you know,
Charles Holtzell, So beams of light come down now.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
But there's there's another aspect to this though, and I'm
open to anything. It could be anything. But the other
parts about it, when we get to the other side
of Charles Halt's story that he talked about later but

(28:13):
not back in the day, was that this craft was
seen over the weapons storage area, beaming lights down into
the weapon storage area, which he didn't want to say
had nuclear weapons or not because that was against a
treaty whatever, and so there wasn't supposed to be nuclear

(28:36):
weapons there. But by just saying that, I think he's
implying that there was. That doesn't feel like the testing
of something. If you're doing it over the weapons storage area,
you're revealing yourself whatever your secret project is.

Speaker 1 (28:56):
Yeah, that's a good point. Unless they're using the UFO
story as a cover.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
Well, that's that's an easy thing to go to, isn't it.
You know, Yeah, it call the UFO and now everybody's crazy.

Speaker 1 (29:12):
Yeah, And you know, there was a lot of kind
of interrogations that went on afterwards, the people who were
their offices. Quite horrible stuff, I think. So they definitely
wanted to control the narrative, I guess.

Speaker 2 (29:30):
Well, and it's hard to control that. They're going to
try for sure, but it's hard to control when you
have witnesses law enforcement, local law enforcement, townspeople and the
military seeing things all over the area before, during, and

(29:53):
after the event and it really hasn't gone away. How
many other eyewitnesses have we had to rendals sides the
core group?

Speaker 1 (30:02):
Yeah, quite a lot. Yeah, I think Also you need
to point out that it wasn't just that weekend. There
were sightings in that part of England, in East Anglia
in nineteen eighty, quite a lot of sightings leading up
to that Christmas weekend. It wasn't just that weekend. There
was a similar craft scene in Lower Staffed in Great Yarmouth,

(30:29):
Feaver up the coast. So whatever it was there, it
wasn't just one test.

Speaker 2 (30:35):
Wasn't there also if it was testing, wasn't there radar
censor data too as well? Picking up stairs?

Speaker 1 (30:44):
It was, Yeah, it was, So that adds to it
as well. I think. Also we have to take the
whole kind of picture really, and I don't even remember
there was a UFO researcher, an author, and that sadly
passed away, Georgina Bruni, and she she spoke to Margaret

(31:05):
Thatcher informally it's a party about it, and she famously
told Georgina Brune that rendalstim you can't you know, you
can't tell the people and it wasn't it wasn't Aliens.
That was her famous quote.

Speaker 2 (31:21):
You can't tell people that it wasn't Aliens.

Speaker 1 (31:24):
No, you can't tell people and it wasn't Aliens.

Speaker 2 (31:27):
Oh right right, and it was yeah, right right, same thing,
same thing.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
So why why would she say that? She obviously if
it was something really top secret, you couldn't tell the people.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
Now do you think do you think that this was
you mentioned joint? But is it is it possible that
this was a United States secret access program and that
Britain didn't know about it? Is that possible?

Speaker 1 (32:00):
That is possible. Yeah, that would make sense if it
ties in with the cash landrum.

Speaker 2 (32:05):
Certainly that w tire of that.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
Yeah, I'm mean, I think we have to be honest
with this. These are just my opinions and theories. At
the end of the day, we don't know. But definitely
something happened that weekend, and something is still a mystery.
I think it's more erring on the side that it
was some sort of secret technology as opposed to an
extraterrestrial craft. But you know, I've got an open mind.

(32:29):
There's something weird happened, and weird experiences still happen in
this mystical forest. And you know, Suffi's got a lot
a long history of weirdness, from will of the wisps,
the lantern men, You've got the black dogs that have
been seen there, People are seen cryptids in the forests.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
You got berries, you got leprechauns, you got all kinds
of stuff. You got all kinds of stuff. But then
if we take a look at, uh, the Belgian triangle
UFO wave, which which bled over to the UK, and
which was not just in Belgium by the way, and

(33:10):
looking back at that in a historical perspective, could have
been UFOs? Yes, could it have been et sure, anything
as possible, but it could have also very is as
easily then us testing of craft and antique ravitic technology.

(33:30):
And that would you know that checks a lot of
the boxes, doesn't it.

Speaker 1 (33:36):
Yeah, I mean I've come to the conclusion. Having studied UFOs,
you know for thirty Yes, there's no one single answer
to all the science we see. It can be everything.
It can be a reverse engineer technology, it can be
our own technology that we've developed ourselves. It can even
be et technology. It could be intelligence from other dimensions,

(34:00):
paranormal style things. It's all of these things. There's no one, single,
one size fits all answer to the UFO phenomena. I
think that's what we need to recognize.

Speaker 2 (34:11):
And then you know, we have the one puzzling Well,
there's lots of puzzling parts about this. But John Burrows,
who's been on this program many many times, and I
consider him a friend, and for me to speak with
him about this case that I am so intrigued with

(34:33):
and getting his account, it was chilling every time he
told the story. And so when you think about this,
when he goes up to that the edge of the berm,
the edge of the grass, he's lying on his stomach,
Penniston is off to his right and he peeks right.

(34:55):
He looks over the hill and he's looking into this craft,
looking at a apt surrounded with this bright light. But
he's looking at it and it's crazy to hear this
from him. But that's when he says he looks over
at Penison, and Penisen gets up and walks down to it.

(35:16):
This is first hand accounts, and then Peniston this is
for me, the craziest part is Peniston talking about the
hieroglyphs on the outside of the craft. That doesn't unless
I don't know, what do you think about that part
of the case.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
I've always struggled with that part of the case. With
Jim Peniston's account of the higher grafts on the on
the craft and also him having this binary code download
which he says he wrote down and then translated, yes
later into some sort of weird message about high Brazil
and all this stuff. I find that really really hard

(35:56):
to believe. But who am I to say it didn't happen.
I don't know. I mean, what your thoughts on it.

Speaker 2 (36:03):
It's same. It's the That's why I brought it up.
I struggle with it, you know, I I truly do.
The point that is the craziest part about it is
Burrows saw him do this. Hm hmm, Okay. Now it's
not like Penicon is making not not the binary code

(36:26):
that he wrote on the bus, but you know, Burrows
wasn't there for that, but watching him walk down to
the craft, No, Burrows gives the account and and talks
about that happening. So what Penicon says he saw, he saw.
But but we have two witnesses to this encounter that

(36:46):
back each other's stories up, and that that's I just
struggle with it. I just struggle with it.

Speaker 1 (36:53):
Yeah. And then you know, like they both had health
effects from from from the interaction which obviously affected their
lives massively. Something happened to them, uh, something anomalous, So
you know, was it our technology or was it something else?
I don't think it was a Russian satellite, which has

(37:16):
also been thrown into the mix. I mean, what, what's
your favorite theory on what happened.

Speaker 2 (37:24):
I think it was a UFO. I think it was
a UFO. Think it was ET that came down some
My overall take, I like the way you turn this
around and and and gave gave me all the responsibility
for the intelligent answer. But but but I'll do the
best that I can with all of the debunking that

(37:49):
has been thrown at Rendallship and to have none of
it pan out. It was this, It was this. It
was a dude driving through the forest in a in
a g you know, it was it was the lighthouse.
It was, it was, it was a meteor, It was
a Russian satellite, it was. It was all made up.
They never saw anything whatever. It is nothing. Nothing panned out.

(38:12):
Anything that the authorities or the military or debunkers through
at Renaldship. It simply didn't pan out all right for me?
What is left? I think a craft came down and
to have two different groups of military UH Air Force
security people including Halt, a deputy based commander, to come

(38:36):
up on this object and to see it and to
describe it. It is what it is. It's not the
other stuff that everybody when you listen to Charles Holt
on his tape when he goes it looks like a
giant eye blinking with molten metal dripping on the ground. Right,

(39:00):
that's not a that's not a lighthouse. Right, that's not
a jeep being driven through the woods. That's not kids
pulling a prank. That's not a Russian satellite. That is fine,
it's not it's not a meat. It's not any of
those things, you know. It's it's simply not. I just

(39:21):
don't think educated. My take, UH, security personnel, uh that
are doing their job are going to make a series
of mistakes like this all the way down the line
to the point where this got written up. The incident
report was written and it went up the chain of command.

(39:44):
So yeah, if it was a bunch of kids with
a jeep in the woods, then it was a bunch
of kids with a jeep in the woods. You're not
going to turn that into something else. That's my take.
I think it was. I think it was.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
Et Okay, Well that's good. I want it to be
to so yes, yeah, yeah, I mean I think we
should have an open mind. Still, I don't say it
was definitely this or definitely that, but definitely something happened
and it wasn't like you say any of those things.
You can't debunk it. You can't. And the more I

(40:18):
look into it and make the film, finish the film,
do her investigation, and then I find out loads more stuff.
That's it, Prince. I spoke to you. I don't know
if you've spoken to her. Major Laurie Raefelt, No, what happened.
She's really interesting. She was stationed at Rendallsham in nineteen
eighty and then transferred away just before this sighting. But she,

(40:41):
you know, she's a very credible person, US retired major
and she, I mean, she was young at the time,
but she was stationed a strange country, first time away
from the US, and she said, there's a weirdness about
that place. And she claims to have interacted with an
alien gray at Rendelsham. This is like, you know, a

(41:02):
few months before this all kicked off, you know, and
I can't. She's very serious about this. She's gone on
record to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
And why was the alien gray there?

Speaker 1 (41:16):
It was? She found it quite kind of comforting in
some way. It was giving her kind of a kind
of message that everything would be okay. I mean, it's
usually what happens in these situations.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
Wait wait wait wait wait, okay, now let's back up.
I thought this was a captured alien. No no, no, no, okay,
so no, tell me what happened. What happened.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
It was a paranormal account. She was guarding some place
there at the East Gate, late at night on her own,
and this thing appeared behind her, and you know, it
was an alien gray and it was communicating telepathically with her.
Wasn't there for very long and then then went away.

(42:01):
And then she had another paranormal encounter at the same
place with a more of a kind of a ghost
type figure. And it's you know, it sounds incredible, but
you know, she's quite a serious person. She's gone on
record with this statement and this was you know, leading
up to you know, this is the months up to

(42:23):
the December sightings. Is that coincidence? I don't know. I mean,
she said there was a weird hearing us about the place,
a strangeness, and you know, she does qualify the saying
that she did have some kind of psychic paranormal experiences,
you know, back in the US, So maybe she was

(42:46):
tuning into something that was there, you know. Interesting though.

Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah, I haven't been to Randall shim It's one of
those things. I'm gonna see what I can do. I
want to take the walk through there, take the trail
right and go and check.

Speaker 1 (43:00):
It's massive though. It's massive. God, I realized it's a
lot of walking. It's great. It's a magical place and
you can feel the history and the significance of the place.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
Now, why uh, why would Margaret Thatcher say the things
that she said, and why would the UK and the
government take the Stanton and randallshim instead of embrace it.

(43:35):
Why why would they do that? Why would they take
why would they handle it that way the way that
they did.

Speaker 1 (43:44):
Well, shut it down and cover it up. Because we've
got someone in the film. We interview this guy called
Richard Lawrence from the Ethereas Society. You don't have you
heard of them, but he he was he was a
refer a researcher and he was one of the first
journalists to look at this story once it broke and

(44:08):
he phoned up r F Bentw was sorry r F.
Woodbridge at the time. I only spoke to someone on
the phone saying, you know, phind off about the the
UFO sighting, and so it was chatting to this clerk
about it and then basically she was shut down, say
it's classified a con'talct about it anymore, and she had
to hang up. So he's he's written a statement to

(44:32):
that effects and we interviewed him, so you know, it
was shut down. And then also I've spoken to it's
a crop circle researcher called Colin Andrews in the UK.
He's great, Yeah, but what you probably don't know about him.
He was shut down by the Thatcher government for investigating

(44:54):
crop circles. He was investigating them for Sir Nicholas Ridley,
who was the minister at the time, and he found
all sorts of anomalist phenomena that was happening, and some
of it, you know, he says, was related to possibly
what happened at Rndlsson. And he was shut down and

(45:15):
is told to remove stuff from his website. This one
of his books which is out of print, which it
wasn't allowed to print again. There's various stuff, there's a video.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
What was he what was he talking about that they
wanted to censor.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
I think basically he found evidence that there was some
sort of weird technology going on, either our technology was
creating his crop circles or it was extraterrestrial. And he
did a lot of research for the Thatcher government, doing
scientific tests, experiments, giving them the data. Then he would

(45:52):
never see it again and it was told not to
talk about it. And he's only told me recently about this.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
Ah did he say what it was? The connected crop circles?
Back to randalls him.

Speaker 1 (46:06):
He doesn't know, He doesn't know basic. He just assumes
it's the same technology involved. He doesn't know.

Speaker 2 (46:14):
Huh. That's fascinating.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
It's fascinating, and there's still a mystery to be uncovered
on a is there a link between you know, Rendlsham
Crop circles, cash Landrum and the Calvin Ufo incident of
the photograph? Because that's that's weird. That's weird as well.
I know. I know James Fox has interviewed the the

(46:40):
two guys from the hotel mm hm and they just disappeared.

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, I just I just spent the weekend with James.
I gotta tell you, no, I like this this past
weekend and I love hanging out with him. Or we're
really really close. And this is what he did to me.
So he we flew him out to tape my TV

(47:07):
show and he had just gotten back from the congressional hearings.
This goes back to the Calvine, by the way, So
he just got back from the congressional hearing. We're going
to take this TV show about the congressional hearing and
what he experienced there and what he found out and
who we talked to, which we did do okay, but

(47:29):
this is what he he goes, Amen, we can do
the UFO. Hearing I go, we are what are you
talking about? We're in production, he goes, because, man, I
want to talk about Calvine. We flew you out in
two and you know, to get here to do the show,

(47:50):
and now you want to talk, he goes, Man, And
I said, yeah, I'm with you on that though, that
that photograph is an enigma. I remember talking to Nick
Pope this is probably ten or twelve years ago, about
the photograph and he said, well, it just it just disappeared.
One day. I came in, you know, and it was gone,

(48:12):
and then we talked about it again again. And then
after like the third show we had done on that,
the next day it appeared the original and and was
it because of this show? Yeah, it wasn't because of me.
It was because people were talking about it, right, and

(48:35):
he's back on and then suddenly there it is and
we've got we've got the original, I remember, you know,
and we finally had high redst scans on it. And
that's something else that's been, you know, attempted to be
debunked so many times, not so short.

Speaker 1 (48:56):
So they're all they're also out there, aren't they not like, oh,
it's a reflection in a lake or.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
It's an island in a lake, and that's the reflection
on the water. I kind of squirt my eyes a
little bit and look at and go, okay, I can
I can see where somebody could talk you into that,
but that's not what it is. And there's a freaking harrier.

Speaker 1 (49:22):
Yeah, that's that's the things that But you know, is
this it looks very similar to the descriptions given about
cash Londrum diamond shapes a UFO that had a little
kind of exhausting coming out. So is it lengths? I wonder?
I mean, I guess with the Calvin the context with

(49:44):
what was the Gulf War at the time, so maybe
it was secret reconnaissance vehicle from the US going over
to the Gulf.

Speaker 2 (49:53):
Could be could be here. The thing is about Calvine
and h there are cases like that the government does
not want a picture taken, you know. And these two
kids are at the right place at the right time
with the camera and they get the shot. They get

(50:17):
the shot, and it's very rare that that happened because
most and you know this mark, most UFO sightings are
that fast. Yeah, you don't have the opportunity to take
out a camera or a cell phone, and by the
time you even think about it, that the sighting's over.

(50:37):
It's over with. I've had incredible sightings that I can't explain.
Never shot video or took a picture because the incident
was over, you know what I mean. It's it's done.
It's done.

Speaker 1 (50:51):
Absolutely yeah. Yeah, So to have that picture is amazing.
But yeah, I just wondered what happens to those two guys.
I do I do worry about that?

Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. They probably have had money
deposited in their accounts and they are over in the
Maldives and and living living a good life.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Well that'd be good. I can I can live with that.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
That that's that's that's the good. That's the positive side
of it. What about before we hit the brake here?
With everything that is happening today, we have this convenient
word whistleblower that is thrown around constantly. I think that

(51:44):
it's misused as well.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
It's definition, you know, the Webster version of it is
somebody that is disclosing criminal acts. Okay, that's a whistle blow.
Something criminal is going down. You're going to tell on
the corporation or the individuals doing said acts. And you

(52:08):
are a whistleblower? Is that is whistleblower correct? When we're
talking about UFOs? Is keeping UFOs an et contact secret?
Is that illegal? Is whistle blower the correct term to use?

Speaker 1 (52:29):
No, I don't think so. Maybe informant. Yeah, it's an
interesting point that you make. I guess I don't know.

Speaker 2 (52:39):
Well. With with with you and filmmaking, you've got people
coming forward are do you consider them whistleblowers?

Speaker 1 (52:48):
Yes, and they provide an information that they're not supposed to.
But there's a bigger truth at play which they want
the public to know about. I guess, and morally they
think it's the right thing to do, although technically they
could be breaking the Official Secrets Act.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
Yeah, so what what what is there? What is there? What?
What are they playing out in in disclosure? What? What
is their job title? What is their role?

Speaker 1 (53:24):
What the role is they h Yeah, they want to
get the truth out to the public because they don't
think what what the government doing is right. It sounds simplistic,
but that's that's what's happening to to the people that
have contacted me, and they want to go public for
that reason because they think that, you know, great injustice

(53:47):
is being done, and the fact that there is this
technology that they've witnessed and experienced that has been covered up.
And if it is et technology with anti gravity or
whatever you want to call it, why isn't that made public?

(54:08):
And if we have where best engineered, why aren't we
able to use that in the modern world?

Speaker 2 (54:14):
Well, specifically, are they from the military in the UK?
Are they working for private corporations? Give us an example
of who has approached you and what was it that
they wanted to reveal.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah, I mean, I've got a couple of RAF pilots
that have had encounters with triangle shaped craft in the
UK that were quite kind of dangerous. They you know,
they could have had an impact. So they're concerned from

(54:49):
a you know, defense security point of view, but it's
been hushed up when they can't get any answers and
tell them not to talk about it. Basically, that's that's
where where they are coming from.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Do they come with Do they have documents? Do they
have stuff to back up their testimony? They do? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Uh, like what there's no video, but there's this there
is documents from Yeah, yeah, I shouldn't talk.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
About you're not showing the documents. You haven't revealed the
names of the whistleblowers, so what have you seen?

Speaker 1 (55:27):
Well, it's basically it's there's them asking for for for
information from the from the r F to do what
to tell them what happens in their incident and to
disclose what happened.

Speaker 2 (55:47):
I'm not understanding.

Speaker 1 (55:50):
Yeah, I'm not making myself very clear, and yeah, can
we not talk.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
About see But here's the deal, Mark, you make great films,
I do great interviews. I will suck it out of anybody. Okay,
it is my job. So if somebody is coming to you,

(56:16):
When people come to me with claims, I go, okay,
what do you what do you have to back it up?
And and that's that's where I start with. And I'll
talk about whatever. I don't have issues with that. And
I've had very very very crazy conversations with some very
important people. I don't have problems talking about it. One

(56:39):
of the reasons that I don't have problems talking about
it is that's the problem with this community. Nobody. No,
I can't. Now, yes you can, Yes, you can talk
about it. So Mark, you can't. What is it when
you when you're looking at documents, you need to know

(57:00):
that the person that you're talking to is being honest.
So when you look at these documents, are these documents legit.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
As far as i'm awab? I've I've got a friend
who's who's in the services, who's checked them out and
checked out the badge numbers and everything, and they seem
legitimate as far as I can tell.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Okay, So these documents, again, you're being so evasive, but
that's not good enough. You're saying that these documents are
them probably some kind of electronic transmission asking for clarification
about an incident that they witnessed. Am I understanding you?

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Yeah, I've got some I've got some emails. That's that's
the evidence I've got.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
And what was the response from the government or was
it the RAF?

Speaker 1 (57:55):
There was I can I'll find the section. It was
a special section because Harry out that responded to them.

Speaker 2 (58:04):
Now we're getting somewhere, okay, and what was that response?

Speaker 1 (58:10):
But yeah, basically they can't talk about it because the
National security They quoted various acts, So yeah, it was
classified basically.

Speaker 2 (58:20):
See and if it was a nothing burger, that would
be the response, right, But yeah, No, what I'm saying is,
if it was nothing. Then they would respond back with man,
you're crazy.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Uh you know, yeah, no, it's and you know I've
put in my own freedom of information requests regarding the
same incident and other incidents and got the same response.

Speaker 2 (58:51):
And this is separate from Randallsham.

Speaker 1 (58:54):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Interesting whether it was this at a specific base.

Speaker 1 (59:01):
Yeah, it's uh In Heath, oh, Lincoln Heath. Really yeah,
I'm saying too much.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Yeah, now see now we're getting somewhere. But here's the
thing about that base, okay, and and the sightings around
there from from from farmers, from Whitney, that things have
been going on uh In and around there for a
very very long time, unexplainable things. And it's not not

(59:36):
that far from Rendallsham.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
It's not. Yeah, it's possibly all linked.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
Right, yeah you think it's. Of course it's linked. And
that's one of the most top secret bases in all
of the UK by the way.

Speaker 1 (59:51):
Yeah, but there's been a load of activity. You were
having your New Jersey drone situation and we had the
same here Blake and Heath and I had literally tens
of tons of people messaging me videos of what they
took a f lake and hef that was happening. I've
got all the videos, I've put freedom of information requests

(01:00:14):
in getting knocked backs again on the National security grounds
all the time. Yeah, I think definitely was happening there.
But also when I'm see I'm saying I love.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
Getting me, you're squirming and I love that. But but
but if you don't, if you don't talk right, then
then other people don't talk.

Speaker 1 (01:00:37):
You know what I mean, you know, without being too dramatic,
I'm just a bit I've been a bit selfish. I'm
a bit concerned for my own safety a little bit
because I know it sounds mad, but I know one
one of the people that I've been in contact with
who's been sending me stuff, they've been contacted by a

(01:00:58):
man in black, a special agent. I've got their business
card and i'll show you off the record. So it's
quite serious, you know.

Speaker 2 (01:01:09):
It's happening all the time. So this morning, I get
up early, all right, they get up early and coffee
and ride my Harley, you know, and get my head
clear as soon as the sun comes up. And so
I get up this morning getting ready and I'm checking
my local neighborhood watch app right, all of us neighbors

(01:01:34):
are on this little thing. It's pretty cool. But there
check this out. At three a m. I was sleeping
at three am. There's a message on the neighborhood watch app,
and you know what it was. I could pull it
up and read it, and there's a lot of things.
It says, is anybody watching this flying saucer right now? Right?

(01:02:02):
And I went three, A flying saucer? What are my
neighbors seeing? And then the next one was those are
crazy lights? And another neighbor had said that at like
three oh five, and I'm like, what are they doing up? What?
But I missed it. I missed it. I don't, I don't, right,

(01:02:26):
I totally flipped. I sat there, I'm drinking my espresso,
my little espresso cup, you know, and I'm reading this.
I'm like, what what? What? Scroll what?

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:02:39):
At three am? Is anybody looking at this flying saucer? Yeah?
Not lights in the sky, not drone, you know, not
no flying saucer. Man, I mean, it is Palmdale. It
probably was a flying saucer, but it was Lockheed. Uh

(01:03:00):
you know, but yeah right there, right there, all right,
let's take our break. Our guest tonight, Mark Christopher Lee,
is here. His new film is called The rendelshim Ufo
Brittain's Roswell more with Christopher when we come back. I
am your host, Jimmy Church. Stay with us right now.

Speaker 4 (01:03:18):
We've got a short break.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
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here at Machu Pichu with Brian Forrester and Hidden Ink

(01:05:41):
of Tours. Amazing tour so far, Brian, but we're here
to announce what we're gonna do next year in twenty
twenty six. What's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:05:49):
Okay, November twenty twenty six, We're going to have our
major tour of Peru and Bolivia, either a pre or
post tour of Perakas and Nasca on the Code and
then after that six days in.

Speaker 2 (01:06:03):
Easter Island bucket List, Easter Island. Come join Brian and
Ian his amazing team here at Hidney Gaturs four, Peru,
Bolivia and Easter Island. Signing out, say goodbye Brian, Bye
gang Yeah. Rivermoon Coffee, makers of the Fade to Black Blend,

(01:06:28):
truly the best coffee on planet Earth. Just visit Rivermoonwellness
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and it's doc again Rivermoonwellness dot Com. All right, welcome

(01:07:14):
back fad to Black. I'm Merro Simmy Church. Tonight, Mark
Christopher Lee joins us live from the UK, just outside
of London, by the way, and tonight we're talking about
Rendall Shim. He's got a new film out. It is
called The Rendel Shim UFO Brittain's Roswell and the links
for all of Mark's work are below and you can

(01:07:37):
check it out. He has been pretty active in the
paranormal and UFO community for a while now and is
also a musician, and you can check out everything over
on his website. And by the way, the King of
UFOs really enjoyed that documentary. Can you tilt your camera
down a little bit? Mark? There you go? Perfect? Yeah,

(01:07:59):
the King of UFOs. What about We just got off
of an incredible congressional hearing a week ago yesterday here
in the United States. New video was revealed. It's pretty compelling.
I still don't know what we're looking at with that.

(01:08:20):
I've done a lot of analysis of it. But what
about the UK? Is there an approach that you guys
are hoping for with the government. There is there a
disclosure movement with Parliament.

Speaker 1 (01:08:39):
We're trying to get it started. It's been quite difficult.
There was a few UFO researchers that asked me to help.
So we've started a UK UFI Disclosure Group and we
had an official launch a few months back which well

(01:09:00):
got a lot of interest, a lot of people came down,
which is really good. And on the back of that
we someone one of the Prime Minister's Sakias Starmer is
one of his friends, came to this to to the
to the group launch. Uh and I had a letter
drafted for for the Prime Minister which I handed over

(01:09:23):
and was hand delivered to the Prime Minister.

Speaker 2 (01:09:26):
And what did the letter say.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
I mean, officially, I haven't heard back. But this friend
of Sakias Starmer is actually you know, quite well known
h in the UFO circles in the UK, and he's
he's trying to arrange a meeting with someone from the
House of Lords from from the UK government. But this

(01:09:54):
hasn't happened yet and I keep chasing for it, so
I don't know whether it's going to be a dead end,
but we we had in trust from various various lawyers
over here that wants help, So well.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
How do you approach that with I mean, it's been
a long road here in the United States. People think
that you know, this is just you know, just no,
we have been pushing. If you go back historically, we've
now had three four congressional hearings in the last few years,

(01:10:31):
two or three years, but before that we hadn't had
anything since nineteen sixty six, okay, and before that when
you look at the work of like Donald Kehoe and
others throughout the fifties and sixties pushing for disclosure, not
only with with the Pentagon in the White House, but
directly going straight at the United States Air Force. For

(01:10:55):
a very very, very long time. This was a long
road over here, and it took a lot of pushing.
You guys are now like where we are. When I
was over in the UK last year, and it was
an amazing time there because I was hosting a UFO

(01:11:16):
conference in Manchester. But while I was in London and
Manchester speaking with the people that were attending the conference
and different fans and things, I asked them all the
same thing, is the UK government handling this issue correctly,
and you know what the one percent response was, we

(01:11:39):
don't have shit. We we have to depend on the
United States and what is going on over there. Our
government is not talking about it, and it's just like
this wall. Are you finding the same thing?

Speaker 1 (01:11:55):
Yeah, Yeah, there's still the woo woo factor over here
with UFOs, which you've kind I got rid of in
America to some extent, it's just a no go subject
and it's really really difficult. I mean even just a
few weeks ago, I was out going for a walk
around my local woods and I met an old friend
and he saw that I've been doing UFO stuff I

(01:12:17):
didn't know. And he used to work for the Metropolitan
Police in London, quite high up, and he had a
He told me he had a UFO sighting as a
you know, classic bobb Lazaar type craft. That's his words
to me. But he made the mistake of telling a
few people that his work and it was just ridiculed, absolutely,

(01:12:38):
just you know, taking the pat of big time. So
I mean, that's that's the attitude you've got. So you know,
and you know, they've got these couple of RAF pilots
that kind of want to go public. But there's no
safe platform for them to do that is it?

Speaker 2 (01:12:56):
Because and this isn't well it is the correct word
of the of conservative. Is it just not a republican democrat,
conservative liberal view, just a basic conservative view on how
government needs to operate. That that is why. Because here's

(01:13:20):
the thing, all right, and I want you to take
this the wrong way, take this completely the wrong way.
Parliament our vision of parliament British right. And see, you
guys are nuts, you guys go to blows. You guys
are this you guys are yelling ah booing. You know

(01:13:41):
what I mean? Where I thought that open discussions about
things that ruffled feathers was what Parliament was always about.
I would think that UFOs brought up in parliament is
exactly what Parliament needs so they could go ooh you
know and do their thing. Why why is the UFO

(01:14:05):
subjects you know? In because because my framing parliament correctly
when I say it like that.

Speaker 1 (01:14:13):
Oh yeah, absolutely, it's it's just two out there. It's
it's it's conservative. I guess it's our attitudes to life.
I guess if you're going to talk about UFO, is
you have to take the consideration that there might be
life elsewhere, and scientifically we kind of know that in

(01:14:35):
terms of finding these exoplanets and James Webb and all that, right, right, right, yeah, yeah,
So it should be coming into the mainstream a bit more,
but it's not so slow, so behind the times, we're
twenty years behind the US.

Speaker 2 (01:14:50):
I disagree. This is okay, this is where I'm going
to argue with I'm going to debate you on this.
This is why your case doesn't hold water in that. Dude,
You've got Stonehenge right out there in the Bury plans.
You want to talk crazy, explain that Parliament, get get

(01:15:12):
get down and explain to me that and and all
of the the esultic things that go back centuries millennia
with with the UK.

Speaker 1 (01:15:25):
Yeah, you are right, but the politicians won't touch it.
They won't talk about that.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
Sitting out to save Bury man.

Speaker 1 (01:15:35):
The one British public figure that talked about it was
David Ike on National TV A long time. Absolutely, Chris,
I'm not saying I believe what David ak says, but
I'm just taking that as an example.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Well, I'm not asking for reptilians and the shape shifting
Queen to come up in Parliament.

Speaker 1 (01:15:54):
But I mean, but Jimmy, this is the whole reason
why I made the King of u F film to
try and get that debate going, because I think, look,
we're not taking it seriously.

Speaker 6 (01:16:04):
But look, the royal family did this letters right right.
I've got letters from you know, the Queen and Prince
Philip saying we're going to add this UFO book to
our collection. They had a collection of books on UFOs
and crop circles.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
It doesn't make sense though for Parliament. Look, King Arthur
Merlin floating stones a berry stonehenge. That's okay. You and
Bose are off limits. It's doesn't make sense. Man, the
Lady of the Lake ex caliber, right, that's okay that

(01:16:43):
that that really happened.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
But Joseph arab Matheia coming to Glastonbury with the Holy
Grail exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:16:54):
Man, Roslin Chapel, you know all all you I mean, it's.

Speaker 1 (01:17:01):
I think the way the way to go maybe with
through Freemasons. There are quite a lot of Freemasons in
this country. Because he's just reminded me of Roslyn Chapel
being a big Mason thing. And they've got you know,
they're into esoteric knowledge, secret knowledge, so maybe that's the
way to go. And I've actually been contacted by some

(01:17:23):
some Masons in the UK about one of my last films,
nothing to do with UFOs, but maybe maybe that's the
way to go. And the other angle I had with
trying to get UFO disclosure going was talking to Robbie Williams.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, you know, because.

Speaker 1 (01:17:39):
You know, I know Jeremy Corbell and I'm trying to
get him too, you know, get Robbie on board and all.

Speaker 2 (01:17:47):
This Robbie is Robbie is closed. Man, he's such a
big celebrity. Yeah, and he's been pretty for being a celebrity,
has been pretty outspoken about the subject. And then I
also hung out with Oh man, I'm brain freezing right now. Uh,

(01:18:09):
what's the what's that? Man? What's that TV series? That
science fiction TV series in the UK? Not Doctor Who,
the other one. Uh about the spaceship and the crew?
Come on, it's the biggest series. It's the comedy. No,

(01:18:32):
it's a comedy yeah, Red Dwarf. Yeah yeah, So I
hung out with him for a weekend. Yeah. Oh man,
uh he iss. He's just so brilliant. He comes up
the back of me. I don't see him, and he

(01:18:52):
leans his head right between my shoulders and goes fade
to black and I turned around and it's you know,
and I got do because man, I am such a
huge fan. Can we talk? And I ended up I
interviewed him on stage in front of a very large crowd.

(01:19:13):
But it's people like that in the UK that I
think really support this, and not only Craig Charles, but
Robbie Williams is somebody that would really help us. And
maybe Parliament would you know, do they do hearings like
they do here? They don't do they?

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
No, that's nothing, there's not absolutely nothing that's happened.

Speaker 2 (01:19:35):
No, I mean does parliament how does testimony come from
witnesses about any issue? Do they do it?

Speaker 1 (01:19:42):
Having any inquiry into something? So, I mean, I've spoken
to Nick Pope about this because he's kind of unofficial spokesperson,
not spokespersons the wrong word, but advisor. He's an official
advisor and he, you know, he said to us, we
need to take the approach that go to Parliament and
say you know, this is off defense significance. There's no

(01:20:03):
point going there and saying, oh, this is about life
and other planets and how it's going to raises all
the higher levels of vibration, all the stuff you've got
to go for the hard This is of defense significance.
We need to take it seriously. So I think that's
the approach we're going to have to do, which is
why it's important to get these whistleblowers involved. And I
I just wanted to because I've just drawn the letter

(01:20:25):
up about the email and it's an Air Command Policy
Secretariat in high Wickham in Buckinghamshire. That's the place that's
closing all this down. I'm happy to go public with that.
And they're closing it down on Section twenty four of
the National Security in section twenty six Defense, Section twenty
seven International Relations, so which obviously got to do with

(01:20:48):
the US. I guess. So that's that's why we're not
getting anywhere. So I just wanted to share.

Speaker 2 (01:20:58):
That, well clarify what what that actually says.

Speaker 1 (01:21:03):
So I read it to you so basically because I
was putting in a request about this incident that happened
to these pilots, uhh, and they basically sent a response

(01:21:26):
back quite in various sections of the National Security, National
Defense Acts, and international but also if it was in
the public interest, they could release the information. But they're
saying it's not. It doesn't meet all the criteria for
the public exemption test.

Speaker 2 (01:21:45):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (01:21:46):
Ah, basically, so they're not we're not going to get
a response. And they said, oh, if you're not happy
with this, you can email this place, which is what
I did and nothing came back. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:21:59):
That's crazy. Well that's confirming. And Okay, So with these
RAF pilots, with the hearing that we had last week
where we had three four members of the military, but
one Wiggins is active. He's in the military. He's in
the Navy right now, and his testimony was not only

(01:22:24):
was it powerful, but you have to consider what he
is doing. He is in the military, sitting in front
of Congress swearing under oath, right, but he's he's got
to go back to work, right, He's gotta get he's
gotta and uh, that's why his his testimony is so powerful.

(01:22:46):
Which your RAF guys more pilot, who are the best
witnesses that we can bring forward? Yeah, are pilots in
the military, And doesn't that pave the way for future
aria of pilots to come forward?

Speaker 1 (01:23:04):
Possibly? Yeah, I mean that's why We've had some interest
from various lawyers that are happy to help, which is
probably the way it's going to go. Obviously, they're going
to help for free because they're interested in this subjects,
and so that's a possible route as well. I mean,
I'll keep you in touch of what happens.

Speaker 2 (01:23:25):
Yeah, you should, I have.

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
I mean, this is this is the first time I've
gone public with with this really, so I'm a bit
kind of a bit wary, but.

Speaker 2 (01:23:36):
No, don't don't be See that's the point though, that's
the point I have. I've got a few attorneys that
I'm in touch with, and they have told me that
when it comes to UFOs and stepping forward as a

(01:23:58):
whistleblower and that could pass city, that those whistle blowers
don't have any idea what to do, how to navigate
the system, how to approch they You can't pick up,
you can't sign on to the internet and go okay,
whistle blower, u AFO attorney you know how to And

(01:24:19):
then there's also the expense of doing that, and they
don't have any idea. So I've got a few attorneys
that are doing just this pro bono work and helping
these whistle blowers navigate the system and what to do,
what paperwork to follow, and how to stay protected and

(01:24:42):
moving forward. But this is now something that is being
discussed and it's never been that way before. You're doing
this now too as well, and it's tough.

Speaker 1 (01:24:57):
It is tough, yeah, and you know, especially got full
time jobs as well, and you're trying to navigate something
that's not been done before. But taking the lead from
the US, you know, and Nick Pope's been helpful, but
we need more people to come on board. And it's
very much just the grassroots thing at the moment. But then,
you know, I had this discussion with someone the other day.

(01:25:18):
Maybe that's how we're going to get disclosure anyways, through
social media, is through all the video has been leaked anyway,
and maybe we don't need governments to give us disclosure.

Speaker 2 (01:25:31):
Well what was interesting before I say what I'm going
to say, what about the British media and the BBC.
How are they dealing with this issue?

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
They're not. They just they don't cover it, you know,
which is obviously I've got the Rendition film out, so
they've covered it because a little bit because it it
was a major film festival, in London, which helps. We
gave it some credibility, but then it's also kind of

(01:26:08):
part of history in Suffolk. So the BBC Suffolk covered it.
There's a small article on the website, but you won't
get any mainstream news coverage for for UFO stuff at all.
It's really really difficult, which is why I do most
of my interviews in America, because you know, you take

(01:26:29):
it seriously, which you know we appreciate that. But getting
any mainstream press, I mean it's the tabloids do pick
it up, but only in a kind of joky way.

Speaker 2 (01:26:44):
I was interviewed by the BBC and the journalists that
did the interview. She was nice, she was cool. They
had a pretty big team, multiple cameras and and so
we sit down and she wanted I don't think they

(01:27:06):
aired it the interview, which and I'll tell you why
she wanted drama. She kept asking me the same question.
She asked it five times. That's what you do, hoping
to get a different answer. Right, I've been doing this
for years. I'm not stupid. But when I didn't give

(01:27:29):
them the sensational, over the top drama, I was just
speaking the truth and very matter of fact about where
we are in disclosure right now. But when I they
I could tell, I could tell. And it was a
half hour you know that that I said and talked

(01:27:51):
to them and I walked away and they were they
you know, we shook hands. Everything was fine, you know,
all of that. I think they got fade to black
T shirts. Yeah, and everything is fine. But I walked
away from that going that's not what they wanted, you know.
You know, they wanted little green men and and this
and alien bodies on ice and whatever it was that

(01:28:16):
they were trying to get out of me. But that's
I didn't give him, you know, I didn't give him drama. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:24):
They want the cliches and the just so they can
laugh at it, I guess.

Speaker 2 (01:28:29):
And play the X Files music.

Speaker 1 (01:28:31):
Yeah, yeah, that's that's what I've done so many BBC
local radio interviews. Now, whether I'll start with the X
File saying oh God, here we go, but actually I'm
I'm really lucky where I am in in in Hertfordshire,
BBC Hertfordshire. There's a really good journalists called Robert Roberto
Peroni and he's really into Rendalshoon. He's an amazing guy.

(01:28:55):
And we'll talk seriously about UFOs and he thinks we
should you be having this proper conversation in parliament. So
he's a good champion, so I definitely recommend him.

Speaker 2 (01:29:06):
Have the have the have the documentaries that have come
out lately, and you can throw yours in the mix
if you want. But are they approaching the subject in
an honest way? So many of the documentaries do go
full wo But but are are are the media companies

(01:29:29):
out there being responsible with the subject?

Speaker 1 (01:29:34):
I think mainly in the U. In the UK there's
no coverage at all, to be honest, I think the
what was the one that premiered at saff By Southwest,
the Age of Disclosure, which is not out yet. They
covered that because it was saft By Southwest, but not

(01:29:55):
not much. But no, we don't get any coverage. All
I see is what happens in the asked him. You
know you've got James Fox is excellent the program. I
think they covered that pretty well and you know, you
know my excellent PR company based in America. So yeah,

(01:30:18):
it's it's all happening your side. We need a revolution
in the UK.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
Come on, yeah, I know, I know, I know. Is
the public seeing what they need to see on this
subject that that is always I even though James Fox
is the exception to the rule because he's he's really
really good at what he does and James as a person,

(01:30:44):
I'm really close with them. James as a person who
he is comes through in his films. That dude is passionate,
you know, passionate, and it comes through in his films.
Other documentary filmmakers are doing it for clicks and fame,

(01:31:07):
They're not doing it for passion. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:31:11):
Absolutely, James is the one kind of true, genuine truth seeker,
I guess. But in euphology and I see this in America,
it seems a battle of egos and it's like everyone's
getting their little piece of territory and trying to be
the one that you know, gets disclosure, and it's I

(01:31:33):
don't know. I find it a bit disheartening really, And
I'll say something because I know various people I won't
mention names, so I say, well, this person said this,
and they don't trust them, And you say the same
thing to you don't trust him. I like to be
friends with everyone. It's like you have to pick a side,
you have to pick a team. I don't want to
do that, leave me alone. That's what I'm up against.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
I have I have spent so much time, way too
much time with people trying to convince me who to
talk to and who not to talk to, and just
on and I just roll my eyes and I have
I have literally said two if I if I gave

(01:32:17):
away names of who I've said these words to, people
would freak out that I would speak this way. But
my response is, I'm an adult and I'm allowed to
make my own mistakes. So I'm going to go out
there and do my thing. Do not tell me, and
do not try to you do your thing. I'm gonna

(01:32:40):
do mine. And if I get burned, I get burned.
But you've got to go out there and I I'll
give you an example. Check this out. I am filming
with James Fox or I'm location and we are outside

(01:33:01):
the gates of a top secret facility and behind the
fences you can see the guard gates. You can see
the guards watching us, armed two different guard posts, one
over here, one over here, and they're watching us and

(01:33:22):
James and I'm sitting there and I'm not gonna be
a part of this. Somebody's gonna get arrested. And so
I'm watching James in a black suv with his sound
guy in the backseat with a big boom and his
microphone and his camera guy in the front seat. James
is driving the suv circling around these gates with the

(01:33:45):
guardhouses in front of ginormous ten foot signs that say
no video right, you will be arrested by deputy. You know, warning, warning, warning,
There's signs all over the and he's driving and they're
watching him, like, look at this fool. I'm watching. And

(01:34:07):
I'm sitting there with his sister, Kelly, producer of the film,
of the program, of all this film. I'm sitting there
with Kelly on this curb in this parking lot, watching this,
and I lean over to Kelly. I swear to God,
this is what comes out of my mouth. Does he
have bail money? I'm not. I'm not bailing him out.

(01:34:30):
He's about to get arrested. And she goes, I don't
think we do have bail money. But the reason why
I'm bringing this up, that's who James Fox is. He
will just let it all hang out. He will. He's
this gorilla filmmaking thing that he does is for the community.

(01:34:54):
He puts his own self secondary. He's trying to get
to the answers, and he has been in weird situations
like that over and over again throughout the years, and
that is a real director, documentary filmmaker that approaches it
that way. He didn't give a crap. I was watching him, man,
I was like, man, this is gonna end bad. And

(01:35:18):
we did it like four times over those couple of
days in a really bad situation we had. We had,
we were we were outside of We're outside of Edwards
Air Force Base, okay, or right there at the south Gate,
and we're filming underneath signs, and we thought it was funny.

(01:35:43):
I didn't. I'm not in the film for this very
reason in these locations because I don't want people are
going to see this film. They know that I live here,
so I don't want to be the guy. So anyway,
but we're out there and across the street, across right
across the street underneath the tree is a frigging Air

(01:36:04):
Force security suv with the lights on it, watching us, right,
you know, right there, and I'm like, man, guys, you know,
James is like, man, let's dry, Let's just go straight
towards it. I'm like, man, I'm going to follow you
or you get behind it put some distance between us.

(01:36:26):
But he didn't care. We pulled out that man, he
just whipped right around and it was crazy. But he
doesn't give a crap, and that it comes across in
his documentaries.

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
Yeah, it does.

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
We need we need more of change. I know, I
just did a big, long pitch on James, but it's
it's that attitude. Your attitude towards this is what the
public needs to see. They need to see that side
of it. I think it's very important for the public
to see something very honest and something that they didn't

(01:37:01):
know what was going on, you know, and to learn something.

Speaker 1 (01:37:05):
Yeah, the weird we one weird thing, well, a couple
of weird things happened when we did the Rendition film
because we went to renders them obviously do our own experiment,
out of our own CE five. We didn't charge them
any money. We just went there, did some meditation and
then we manifested something we didn't we didn't expect to.

(01:37:27):
We kind of did, we wanted to. We had a
kind of opened minds. We went with the right attitude
and we kind of just sat down and meditated for
a bit. SATs still this is, you know. And basically
as soon as we did this meditation, pretty much straight away,
we heard a really weird electronic noise and it was

(01:37:49):
buzzing in the woods and it was bouncing around the woods.
And this kept going on and it was kind of
a repetitive pattern. It's like a do you remember the
doctor Who's seemed Delia Derbyshire's synthesizer thing. It was like that,
but in the middle of the woods, bouncing around and
there's no one there, and we couldn't find the source

(01:38:11):
of it. We went to into the woods, it was
getting dark. We saw orbs of light flash around and
it's all It's all in the film, and it's all
as it was. We didn't edit anything, We just kept it.
It was like, WHOA, something weird is going on. So
that that was really really weird, and then so we

(01:38:31):
filmed it and then we got home and then the
next morning I literally had an orber ufo over over
my house. My wife saw it, managed to get a
bit of it on on my phone and it's like
that was it was that a coincidence? Did the thing
whatever it was follow us back home.

Speaker 2 (01:38:48):
It was like whoa, yeah, yeah, I love yeah, see
I I love it. There is something about when I
hear from other researchers or whatever it did, okay, but
when I hear directly from somebody about their experience like

(01:39:10):
that right there, that I really appreciate. I mean, I
soak that stuff up. I when when when it was
going down? Was it the first time you've had an
experience like that.

Speaker 1 (01:39:27):
It was the first experience. I've had other experiences, but
this is this was definitely the weirdest. And it was
just the timing of it as well, because you know,
we had a plan, what we're going to do. Find
the spot where was the my suita bowl. You know,
sounds a bit hippous. We use dowsing rods to find
the spot, So we had we had dowsing rods and
then it's spinning around. Okay, we're going to do it here.

(01:39:48):
So we sat down, pincknic blanket down and did it.
As soon as we started, the noise started. It was instantaneous.
I guess the weird thing for us was that because
we took some some advice because this is we're using
C five basically close accounts of the fifth kind, which

(01:40:10):
it was always a bit skeptical about. I spoke to
really a lovely lady in America called Ray Dove. I
don't know if you've spoken to her before, but she's
got these protocols to We followed those and she told us,
you know, whatever you do, don't drink alcohol, which is
fine for me. I'm tee total now after my rock

(01:40:30):
and roll years. But my partner, partner and crying Guy Thompson,
my co presenter, he does. So he was drinking Guinness
all day and you know, it's great for the film
as a rock and roll road trip to Rendersham, a
few stops on the way end at Revention, he's still drinking.
So I think maybe him drinking alcohol brought out a
different aspects of whatever we manifested because there was a

(01:40:53):
slight threat to it, I guess uneasy feeling and we
were warned about that and that's what we had. And
so we had this strange electronic noise which we couldn't find.
We had the yours of light and then it's two darks.
We turned off the cameras, had to find our way
back to the car, which took flipping ages, you know,

(01:41:15):
an hour and a half walking back to the car
pup and then we had this really really weird howling
like a werewolf, you know, one of a better word,
and it just scared the crap out of the crew. Matt,
my co director, he was just really really shook up
by it. And it was just like, you know, there

(01:41:38):
were no wolves in England as far as we know.
It wasn't a dog, it was something else. It was like,
where did that come from? Was that coincidence? I don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:41:47):
Every time I've done the CE five protocol correctly with
the group, nothing right. Every time that I've done my
protocol mine, which is laughter because Strami sandwiches and and

(01:42:10):
Van Halen, right, I'm talking about that good sky light up.
I'm just you know, and and because it has worked
every time, then that's pretty much pretty much what we

(01:42:30):
do now only but I'll tell you why I think
that it works. We are cool, right, that's a cool atmosphere, laughter, fun, right, cracking,
some jokes. Uh, We're not being dicks, you know what

(01:42:53):
I mean. We're not going, man, nothing's gonna happen whatever, whatever.
We're not being that. We've got Manhalen happy music, right,
we've got good food and we've got a good attitude.
And I think that's a really, really, really good combination.
I'm not saying that the Kumbaya and the meditation with

(01:43:14):
the music and and you know, and somebody walking through
a meditation and breathing and eyes closed. Okay, that may
work for group, It's never worked for me. I don't
understand that. And I've really I've done so many CE
five you know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:33):
But I mean what first got me into was with
this ex police detective John Hanson, because he said he
went to renders them in the in the nineties and
did this. It wasn't called CE five then, it was
just hanging out with your mates, you know, and being
still and quiet, and you know, he says that basically

(01:43:57):
what happened to them they saw orbs of lights on
which they got photos off. But then also the weirdest
thing for me is like he said, stones just dropped
out of the sky. That's nuts, that's absolutely nuts. It's
called the ports is the technical term. But they just
came straight outside and he went to get them and
they were like hot, these rocks were hot. And I

(01:44:21):
did it happen?

Speaker 2 (01:44:22):
I did a CE five once we had about let's
say forty forty of us did the whole thing meditated,
got the we got the alien mood music going and
all of that. Okay, no, no ships were called in,
but you know what did happen? That was frigging insane

(01:44:43):
A bright, low, flaming meteor. Oh wow, right over the
top of low flames flames. Yeah, it was crazy, was big.
So I gotta tell I got I gotta tell you

(01:45:05):
when that happened. I don't know what kind of mothership
would have had to have come in to top that,
because that was pretty That was pretty cool. We all
of it just stood there and it lasted for quite
a while, like maybe ten to fifteen seconds, just flaming
low too. Man, you could just see was it was nuts.

(01:45:29):
So I don't know if we call that in, but
the timing was suspect. It was amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:45:36):
Yeah. I mean I've spoken to people who've been to
this guy called Philip Kinsella.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
Oh he's great, he's great, he's great.

Speaker 1 (01:45:45):
He's in the film and he went to Rendelsham and
did it wasn't col C five again. You know, this
is in two thousand, I think, did his little meditation
thing and you know, he saw a pyramid shaped UFO
here and he ran towards it and couldn't get there.

Speaker 2 (01:46:02):
And yeah, him and his brother Donald. Yeah great, they're great.
So cool. Now with with your role in all of this,
you've got your company and you've got you know, the
multi media aspect in approaching this. What are you working
on now? When? And obviously the film currently, but what's

(01:46:28):
in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
Yeah, a couple of things. I'm developing a TV series
which has been which we want to do, which is
like the UFO word trip around the UK, going to
you know, the crop Circle, stoneheng Javebury, doing the you know, Locknest,
things like that, Holy Grail, searching for that. Want to

(01:46:54):
do a film or an episode on that. And yeah,
just the developing that idea, really taking the rock and
roll road trip around at UK, exploring weird phenomena.

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
This is what I was going to say earlier. I
I was uh at at a friend's farm in uh
in London, outside of London. I told you about it earlier,
but but I'm out there and he said, he I go, so, dude,
you got any crop circles on your property? Goes man.

(01:47:30):
I got a couple of tombs. I said, what I
got burial mounds? I go on your property? Goes, yeah,
I've got I've got two. He goes, but out here
you can't buy a piece of land without something on
it like that. There's there's megalithic stuff. And I said, really,

(01:47:53):
because every yes, and he was, but he was, this
wasn't I'm laughing about it now, But he was just like, no, man,
you buy a piece of property and you're going to
have something on it. And I've got my two things here.
I've got two mounds that are ancient. I don't even
know how they are, but they've got rooms. And I

(01:48:13):
didn't go see him, but he said there's something like
that on every piece of property in the.

Speaker 1 (01:48:19):
UK pretty much. Yeah, it's all. I mean. I'm into
kind of lay lines and earth energies and I'm pretty
sure it's connected to crop circles. I know we mentioned
them before before people go off. I know a lot
a lot of crop circles are you know, human made,
and they're still fantastic. But you know, the weird thing

(01:48:41):
about the human made ones. People still have weird experiences
in the human made ones. And I spoke to you,
spoken to him Dr Simeon Simeon Heine.

Speaker 2 (01:48:51):
Oh, yeah, of course he's great.

Speaker 1 (01:48:53):
Yeah, he's great, and he's a crop circle researcher. But
he'll say that this, even in the man made ones,
is strange effects due to four texes and it's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:49:05):
Yeah, what do you make of all of this action
that we have right now with interstellar objects and these
massive things, and now we've got this new object that's
coming in strangely at the same time as we have
three I atlas. Yeah, what do you what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
I mean, I've spoken to Professor Ralphiel Lobe quite a
lot of the last month. I've known quite well, and
obviously he's the one that's proposing his Lobe scale of
not to turn where not. It's definitely a comment and
Tenant's spaceship let's prepare. So he's investigated it seriously with
the intention that you know, we should be alert to,

(01:49:50):
you know, the possibility that it could be a you know,
a scout or something coming through a moor came through
our solar system. This is the third one, now, isn't it.
Let's come through and then like the new one who
just mentioned the swan thing.

Speaker 2 (01:50:05):
Yeah, s two yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:50:08):
S two. And then someone said somewhere that you know,
Graham Hancock proposed that this is the one that came
twenty two thousand years ago that broke up into pieces,
and then one of the pieces started the younger, driest
in the nine hundred years ago. So there's all that
added to the mix. And you know a lot of

(01:50:30):
new edge people saying all these two together, this is
a beacon signal. It's going to change our vibrations and
all this you know, we need it changing.

Speaker 2 (01:50:41):
Yeah, for sure, man, for sure. Well. One of the
things I was talking about this last week about three
three I Atlas for the very reason that you just mentioned.
Damn it, we needed distraction. We need something to pull

(01:51:02):
us out of this crazy spot that the entire world
is stuck in. And it's not just any country or
any one thing. There's drama happening all over the place,
crazy stuff, and we need we need to get off

(01:51:24):
of that focus, out of the negativity, and into something else.
And three I at Lias and now S two is
giving us an opportunity to you know what I mean,
to think about something else.

Speaker 1 (01:51:39):
Yeah, absolutely, Because you know the world is so polarized
everywhere you know something that's going to bring people together
as the post, which is what we're saying everywhere, isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:51:52):
It Wouldn't it be great? Wouldn't it be great? A
three I at Lias turned out to be our official
I mean, that would just uh uh. It would make
things like the stupidity of Ukraine, the stupidity of Gaza,

(01:52:14):
the stupidity of killing people anybody, the stupidity of religions,
and not the stupidity of it, but the fact that
we we fight each other over the Yeah, you know,
borders and lines and mad all of that just becomes
so stupid and in you know, insignificant. There is no

(01:52:38):
significance to it anymore. If if suddenly we have an
artificial an et object coming through our start, that's that
would change everything.

Speaker 1 (01:52:52):
He would change everything and we change over view ourselves. Yeah,
definitely would. I mean, we'll probably find out on October
the third, when the high redsk image is taken apparently,
But you know, Harvey Life's still saying there's a forty
chance that it is official.

Speaker 2 (01:53:09):
Well, he Avi's a good dude, Okay, I know him
quite well. I'm not bragging. I just know how honest
he is. And I've sat with him, right, and when
he looks in your eyes right and says, I'm just

(01:53:32):
about the data, man, I comment on the data, Well,
that's that is so. So the data is telling Ave
some pretty crazy stuff, isn't it. The data is you know,
when you look at his book Extraterrestrial and what he

(01:53:52):
wrote about OM and all of the points that he
brought it all data driven. His conclusions are base on
the data. Right. Well, when we look at this now,
he says one in five hundred chance or whatever. I
think those uh, but anyway, that this is on our elliptic, man,

(01:54:16):
that's easy. Interstellar Interstellar space is pretty big. Do you
know what interstellar means? It came from out there? Right,
Space is a big and for for the size of everything,
for this object to come in pass us on our elliptic,

(01:54:40):
go around our son and come out the other side,
what are the odds of that? That's crazy? The universe
is too big. So yeah, I'm with AVI on this one.
There's a possibility that this was intentional.

Speaker 1 (01:54:56):
But you are right with Avi. He does data. He
doesn't do conspiracies.

Speaker 2 (01:54:59):
He's you know, I've tried, I've tried, I've tried. I
was sitting next to him one night and I said
something stupid. I said something really stupid came out of
my mouth, Like, so, so what do you think of
the Nordics or whatever? Man, something stupid came out of
my mouth. He goes, I swear to God. Man, He's

(01:55:19):
like mid bite into some lasagna or something, and he's like, Church,
I'm gonna stop you right there. No. No, I was like,
what about Travis Walton? Uh, I'm all about the data.
So it was I can't believe I said something, So

(01:55:40):
what about what about you know, what about Queen Elizabeth?
And But that's what I for him. In his position,
he has to walk a very fine line. But he
would I think he would really enjoy bringing something forward

(01:56:04):
about et and life in the universe, you know. And
he would really enjoy that moment. And he deserves it.
He deserves it.

Speaker 1 (01:56:13):
Yeah, definitely, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:56:16):
Yeah. Well, when you're at Harvard or any universe, can
you imagine, you know, Cambridge, Oxford, right, some crazy old
established school, and you're a tenured professor and you come
out in that conservative academic atmosphere going okay, man, so

(01:56:37):
my PhD student right is going to write a paper
on Atlantis and Aliens. You can't do it, you know
what I mean. We're not there yet. We're not there,
but Avi is getting very close to being in that position,
and he deserves it because he's taken a lot of

(01:56:58):
chances for this community.

Speaker 1 (01:57:00):
Oh yeah, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:57:02):
So where can everybody follow everything that you were doing?

Speaker 1 (01:57:06):
You can follow me on TikTok at the King of UFOs.
I'm on x as well, the King of UFOs. Best
place is to follow me up. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:57:17):
And nub film right.

Speaker 1 (01:57:20):
Yeah, nubfilm dot co dot UKs the website where we
can see what I'm up to. Thank you. I've got
a few books out on Amazon as well, one about Rendlesham,
The Rendlesham UFO the British was Well, which is all
the different theories about what it was, including our own.

Speaker 2 (01:57:38):
Yeah, and you've got trailers up on the website too.

Speaker 1 (01:57:42):
Yeah, this trailer is out there as well. And yeah,
more films coming up, quite prolific. So I watch that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:49):
Thank you so much, Mark, enjoy the rest of your day.
Thank you for staying up so early in the morning
out there in the United Kingdom, my friend. But we'll
do it again soon. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (01:58:01):
Thanks to me. I appreciate that.

Speaker 2 (01:58:03):
All the best jays by Mark Christopher Lee and it
is nubfilm dot co dot UK. We have the links
below very simple, over in our website and throughout social
media and everything that you need to follow Mark and
his work is right there all right, So there you go.

(01:58:23):
Tomorrow night, we're gonna wrap up this week here on
Fate to Black. Tomorrow night is our once a month
ama a ja where you get to ask me anything.
So great show tonight. Thank you Mark and to everybody else.
I'll see you tomorrow right here where you get to
ask me anything. Until then, all I've got is go

(01:58:44):
Beckley Tappy. Bete to Black is produced by Hilton J. Palm,
Renee Newman and Michelle Free. Special thanks to Bill John Dex,
Jessica Dennis and Kevin Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music
by Doug Albridge. Intro Spaceboy Aide to Black is produced

(01:59:10):
by kjc R for the Game Changer Network. This broadcast
is owned and copyrighted twenty twenty four by Fade to
Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc. It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied,
or used anywhere in the known universe without written permission
from Fade to Black or the Game Changer Network. I'm
your host, Jimmy Church Go, Beckley Teppe,