FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Rick Osman

Tonight, researcher and author Rick Osman joins us to discuss the lost, ancient history of America!!!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:29):
This Hope Radio for the Masses headline of US July eighth,
nineteen forty seven.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
The Audi Air Force has an outstart applying the Heart
be Found and there's now in the possession of the ARDA.
The game really changed, the game change.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would
vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside
this work.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
This is Day to Black.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
It's your host, Jimmy Church on the Game Changer Radio Network.
All right, good evening, how you doing, How you doing?
All right, it's fade to Black. Today is Monday, October thirteenth,
twenty twenty five. I'm your host, Stubby Church. Let's do this, man, Yeah, wow, Okay,

(01:27):
We're kicking off another brand new week here on pay
to Black. And if you've been following my social media,
I mean this week was an absolute whirlwind. It was
a blur. It was something going on every single day
somewhere in a state and another city, just constant, and

(01:50):
it never let up. And I flew back into town
on Saturday night. And again if you follow my social
media and certainly see everything that went down, I thought,
oh man, so much fun and so you know, the
energy and the adrenaline was just pumping. But anyway, so
I get back and Saturday night, I turned around Sunday morning.

(02:14):
My suitcases are still packed. I haven't even touched them.
Woke up Sunday morning, which was yesterday today's Monday. Woke
up Sunday morning, and then drove a road with twenty
five thirty friends from here in Palmdale on our Harley's
up to Kern River through the mountains. It was just

(02:37):
a beautiful day and that was six seven hour ride.
It was a six hour ride with an hour break
for lunch in the middle, and then we turned around
and came back. Half of us came back, and to
top off all of that, it just turned around and
do that. Yesterday was absolutely nuts. And I came back

(02:58):
last night and I said, Okay, you know what, I'm tired.
It's been amazing, but I've got a week of Fade
to Black in front of me. I need to get
some rest. So yeah, it was absolutely amazing. But we're
back and we have an amazing week. I want to
thank Michelle for setting all of this up. She's so

(03:21):
good and what a week we've got. Tonight, Rick Osmon
is with this and we are talking about the Lost
History of America this evening Tomorrow night. Lawrence Krause. That's right,
Professor Lawrence Krause joins us a big show tomorrow. Lawrence
is somebody that I have followed for years, one of

(03:42):
the pre eminent physicists in the world, one of the
big brains, and who has written one of the most
influential book in physics called A Universe from Nothing, which
I have read several times. And you know, and I
speak about him and Sean Carol and Brian Green so often.

(04:03):
And to have Lawrence Krause here tomorrow night on this show,
that's a very very very very very big deal. And
tomorrow night we're gonna be talking about three I Atlas
and physics in the universe and all of that stuff
with the one and only Professor Lawrence M. Krause Tomorrow night.
Then Wednesday night check us out. That's right, Rick Osman

(04:23):
Tonight Tomorrow night, Lawrence Krause. Wednesday Night. Lynn Buchanon, Holy crap,
Original gangst A remote viewer is with us. Lynn Buchanan
on Wednesday night and then Thursdays if we don't stop there. M.
D Selig joins us and he's a director, he's a writer.

(04:45):
He's a science fiction writer. A great series on Netflix,
by the way, and somebody that I have followed for
a very long time. And so Thursday Night MD, we're
gonna be talking about his creation of science fiction and
how he bases it on fact. That's right. He's got

(05:08):
a new book out called Hush. It's about the ET
and alien cover up and reveal and disclosure. And we're
going to be talking about all of that Thursday Night.
So huge week here on Fade to Black. I have
seven events coming up. I have got a very very
busy twenty twenty six in combination with not only Beyond

(05:31):
Belief and everything else and Fade to Black, we are
packing everything else in. I also may have an additional
research trip to Egypt that is going to get squeezed in.
Coming up first and just a couple of months is
the Conscious Life Expo February twenty through the twenty third
at the lax Hilton. Just head over to Conscious lifexpo

(05:51):
dot com. Then after that it's the Sedona Ascension Retreat,
and this is March twenty through the twenty second in Sedona, Arizona.
After that, the contact Modalities Expo right there in Wisconsin
in the Midwest, the Heartland May one through the third
and Delavan, Wisconsin at the Delavan Lake Resort. After that,

(06:12):
I come out here for Contacting the Desert May twenty
eight through June first, twenty twenty six. Tickets on sale
this Thanksgiving Day coming up very soon. And then I
head south to Peru for the Inca Celebration of the
Sun that is June twenty third through July one, twenty
twenty six. I come back from that and head over

(06:32):
to the UK for the Monty Python Tour of Scotland
August first through the ninth, and then I go back
to Peru and Easter Island and that is in November
of twenty twenty six. All of the links for everything
that I'm doing, come and hang out with me twenty
twenty six. Manh It's going to be so much fun.

(06:54):
And I was speaking with Gaya today, you know, going
over the shooting schedule and I'm doing next year, and
they were saying, they say that, man, Jimmy, live in
your best life. I said, yeah, man, yeah, yeah, you know,
this is what I want to do, not only get
out there and hang out with everybody, but go around

(07:15):
the world and see these things. And I might be
going to Egypt in twenty twenty six for some scuba
diving off of Alexandria to scuba dives some ancient sites
with the film crew, and that is being set up
right now. Okay, wow, yeah, just getting it done like
we are tonight with Rick Osmon. You know, and today

(07:39):
used to be a special day. I'm not even going
to mention it. It's a culture culture canceled day today.
But the history of Lost America and tonight Rick Osmon
is with us, and this is one of my favorite subjects.
And we're going to jump into all of this, not

(08:01):
only hidden history, but the indigenous cultures here. What do
they have? We have symbolism and fortresses and things. But
also we might jump into some King Arthur legends here
in North America. We've got the copper in the Upper
Peninsula of Michigan. We're going to be doing that, bronze

(08:23):
aged artifacts, all of that and much more tonight with Rick,
and I would before I jump into his past, which
is twenty five years in the defense in history and
doing that. But when I speak about that, that's about data, right,
That's about data looking at the evidence and using that

(08:44):
tech expertise to jump into the ancient past. It's something
I have a lot of respect for. So I would
like to welcome for the first time to Fade Black
rec Osmon. He's right there, Rick, good evening, young man.
How you doing?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Oh? I wish I were young, but I'm well, thank you.

Speaker 3 (09:00):
You know you know what your new nickname is?

Speaker 2 (09:03):
What's that?

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Off the grid?

Speaker 2 (09:05):
Rick? Gone by OZ for a fifty odd years. It'll
take it. Well.

Speaker 3 (09:13):
I got to find something that rhymes with OZ to
make that work, so we might have something by the
end of the show.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Rick.

Speaker 3 (09:19):
Before we get started, you get the first time guest disclaimer,
So let's get that out of the way first. Which
is this Rick, Rick, as you and I just sitting
on my couch having a conversation as friends, and where
the conversation starts, it starts where it ends, it ends.
But we're gonna end as friends. Now. You have to
accept so we can move on. I accept that, you know,

(09:42):
after the sound check that we had today, you and
I will always be friends. I mean, that was that was.

Speaker 2 (09:50):
That was a great Well we share a lot, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (09:53):
We share a lot, and it was that was a
pretty incredible. Everybody was about guitars. Just in case you're
won during no secret stuff here, it was about guitarists.
But Rick, I actually want to start here with one
of my favorite subjects, which is this. And I know
when I say favorite subjects, it's something that makes me angry.

(10:17):
It seems that our research and our knowledge is focused
on the rest of the world and we don't give
a crap about where we live. Why is it we
have so much to discover here and we just don't
spend time doing it in our own backyard. Why is

(10:41):
the United States of America when it comes to historical
research and archaeology a red headed stepchild.

Speaker 2 (10:48):
Well, I believe it is a nefarious conspiracy. But do
you want me to walk you through that one?

Speaker 3 (10:54):
Yeah, let's do that's the question.

Speaker 2 (10:58):
All right. Here's what I think happened. In fourteen fifty two,
a papal bull was issued that said, basically, I'm and
I'm paraphrasing heavily here. If you find a land that
is empty of Christians, you can claim that land, and
the people who are there who are not Christians you
can claim. The slaves, you can kill them, you can
do with them. Whatever you want, And by fourteen ninety

(11:19):
two there were a couple of Spaniards and others who
were taking advantage of that particular edict. And because the
United States, Canadian, Mexican, all the sovereigntry of all those
nations is dependent upon the ritual that Columbus performed when

(11:41):
he landed on sanat Domingo, because it claimed it in
the name of that edict. So when we go back
and we find out that not only was he not
the first, he wasn't the first Christian all this other stuff,
then the sovereignty question and is up in the air.

(12:02):
Is it real legal sovereignty? What can we do about it?
At this point that that's a whole different question. But
in order to maintain the sovereignty and protect it, we
have taken active measures to do so. When I say we,
it started as far as I can tell, with Thomas Jefferson,

(12:22):
and presidents and other officials since then have upheld that
battle and we are still fighting that battle.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
That is such a good point, because I'm not the
smartest guy in the room, Okay, but it now appears
there's enough evidence to suggest that many different cultures were
here long, long, long before Columbus and we're doing land

(12:54):
grabs and well, yes, hear me back, but let me
let me finish my thought though. If any of those
countries wanted to take us to court, they may have
they may have a legal leg to stand on, you know.
And I'm talking about Sweden and Denmark and Copenhagen and

(13:18):
Finland and anywhere it's China, how about Egypt?

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Right right, it's a possibility.

Speaker 3 (13:26):
It's a possibility, yes.

Speaker 2 (13:28):
Carthage, you know. Okay, they may not be under the
same name still, but those were some of the people
who got here, the Phoenicians for sure. Now now back
to who would have a legal claim. I think that
would be the Native Americans. But I might be.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Nobody, but you're not. These are all very very important
points to make and where we just you know, manifest
destiny and the belief system of you know, God said
this is ours, so go and do whatever you want,

(14:02):
you know, in the name of the Lord.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (14:06):
Yeah, it's absolutely crazy.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
And like I said, it is still in action. It
is still an active although you have to really look
for it with some of the clues that I've discovered,
but it's there and you can find it in a
whole lot of destroyed ancient monuments, which was the core
of my book back in twenty eleven.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
When we start to look at this hidden history, let's
look at it in a linear fashion. First, we all
love dates, right, so I give us the dates. What
are the days? So when we start to push this back,
what are the earliest dates outside of the indigenous peoples

(14:53):
that we're already here and that can even you know,
go back fourteen fifteen thousand years or longer five thirty
one from Russia by the way.

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Right, I mean well from Southeast Asia. Southeast yes, so
dates on that. We have twenty two twenty one to
twenty three thousand year old footprints in Texas at San Dia,
I'm sorry, in New Mexico at Sandia. We have a
site in Mexico that is was dated by Virginia Steen McIntyre,

(15:27):
a geologist, not an archaeologist, in excess of two hundred
thousand years, with tools and possibly bone fragments. We had
another site in Calico Hills, California, north of you, Okay,
way north of you. But Lewis Leaky, the famous Lewis Leaky,
identified skull fragments and tools that were in excess of

(15:50):
two hundred and twenty thousand years old. Was that the
earliest We don't know, but you can't even get a
palean tallist or an archaeologist or an historian to accept
any of those dates at this point in time.

Speaker 3 (16:05):
We just had the finding in San Diego the mammoth
bones with teeth marks and tool marks dating back again
very controversial, but yeah, one hundred and fifty years.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Yeah, and that typically that is beyond se fourteen dating.
They had to use other tests to get that. And
we're using thermoluminescence on pottery and various things from a
side in North Carolina. A guy by the name of
Vince Barrow Is is I'll say bulldogging that because he has

(16:45):
bulldogged it through a whole bunch of different academic and
museum types to get the data out. But it shows
African animals, African, Chinese and European people. It shows people
shake hands, sitting at a table, using coffee mudge, all
different kinds of things that don't fit for Native American stuff.

(17:09):
And of course all the academics proclaim them just declare
them as all fakes. But the thermal luminescence speaks differently.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
I went to a site on the just just east
of Laughlin, Nevada, just right across the state line there,
and it's a pretty it's it's in an area called
the grape Vine, the grape Vine Petroglyphs, and so I

(17:39):
hear about it and we go out there. Took about
twenty twenty five of my friends and we went out
for an evening and had a great time. Anyway, so
I go and I look at these petroglyphs, which obviously
have a very tremendous and deep origin story. And I

(18:02):
saw some freaky stuff, right, And there's over seven hundred
petroglyphs in this canyon on these walls and in a
cave that we found, and I'm looking. I'm like, and
I leaned back, and I'm like, huh. And they're all
going in one direction. By the way, you could see
that there's like the there there's movement to the petroglyphs.

(18:24):
All the animals and the humans are facing the same direction.
You know, it's weird, you know, there's movement. Mike, I
don't know, Mi Grace, whatever you want to call it.
But I could see the origin story so then I
jump back after seeing all of this and taking the pictures.
I mean, I saw DNA, you know, not natural stuff
like Okay, you would expect to see a goat, you know, carved,
you know what I mean, you expect to see certain things,

(18:46):
But DNA that shape, the double heat that's not found
in nature. Where are you going to come up with that?
Thousands of years ago? So that and and some other
stuff that looked pretty strange, and the astronaut and this
thing with this helmet on and and and it was.
It was crazy. So anyway, I come back Rick, and
I look it up. Nobody knows anything about those petroglyphs.

(19:13):
I looked up the university research that has gone into it,
very minimal. Nobody cares. The best that they could put
is that it's older than twenty five hundred years. But
they don't know who did it. The Mahabi Indians, right, okay,
they were like, not us, not us, and we've been
here since you know, so no, it's not us. We

(19:34):
don't know what this represents. So they don't know what
the dating is. They don't know who did it, and
there's no research and there's no nothing, and they're just
sitting out there, and it's the largest collection of petroglyphs
in North America. Doesn't that sound special to you? Doesn't
that sound worthy of? You know what I mean? And
it's just that that's that's our attitude about our own country.

(19:58):
We just don't look at it. The horrible part is.

Speaker 2 (20:02):
People go out and destroy them for no known nor
certainly not a good reason.

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Two or three times, specifically twice there was vandalism out there,
and those people were caught and imprisoned, all right, and
spend some time in jail.

Speaker 2 (20:18):
But they are bit but go ahead.

Speaker 3 (20:21):
They're open to the element. You know. There's no guards,
there's no fence around it.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
There's a place in Utah that has a I'll call
it a valley rather than a canyon because it's very long.
It's like eleven miles long, I think, and it has
petroglyphs and various things all along its length. And they're
now saying it could be in the thousands of petroglyphs
in this entire array, and some of them are twenty

(20:50):
five feet up the canyon wall. Somebody was very industrious
and brave. Probably now you mentioned you touched on how
long have they been here like the Mohaves. How long
have they been there? Well, I spent quite a bit
of time with my ho Chunk buddy a couple weeks

(21:12):
back in Wisconsin, and he continuously relates that their origin
tales are their oldest tales, their stories of not just beginnings,
but well after their beginning was still two ice ages ago.

(21:33):
So they claim to have been here in excess of
seventy thousand years, and they can use their stories and
go find physical places on the descriptions from their stories.
And the Shoshone from out in Wyoming North Dakota have
come back there and found some of their origin stories

(21:56):
places from their stories in Wisconsin with the help of
the ho Chunk and others. So these people, this spoken
lore carries meaning well beyond what we can as white
people who read stuff can even imagine how well it

(22:16):
can be preserved and how long it can be preserved
in that way, So tens of thousands of years.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
There was we went in in this cave. Now check
this out. You mentioned twenty five feet up right, and
I've got video I can, I can, and pictures, so
we'rent And the cave was really tall, real thin. I
don't know, maybe four feet wide, but went up maybe
thirty forty feet and it was probably fifty feet deep,

(22:48):
all right. And so we got in looking around. We're
in there at night, so it's dark. We got our
flashlights and stuff, and I shine my flashlight up and
about twenty five feet up the wall is this, I'm
gonna change cameras is a glyph. And the glyph is
about three feet wide maybe three feet tall, all right,

(23:13):
And this is what it is of. It's a human figure,
round head stick figure standing on water. He's got his
arms out and he's standing on water. You can see
the water underneath and then underneath the waters a line,
and he's standing on the water with his arms out

(23:35):
and in one hand he's got this cross an X
across like a plus sign. He's holding that up. In
the other hand he's holding like a sun or a moon,
a circle and he's standing there like this with a
plus sign and the circle, standing on water. And I'm
We're in the Mohave Desert, man, right right. I'm looking

(23:58):
at that and it's way up there and nobody knows
what it is or how it got there. And I'm
like that that is saying something you can't ignore.

Speaker 2 (24:10):
What that close was it to the DNA.

Speaker 3 (24:13):
The DNA was okay, marvelous.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Point.

Speaker 3 (24:17):
You are on pitch Rick outside of the cave entrance,
and I've got pictures. I might be able to dig
them up for this show. Wasn't prepared for this. The
DNA was outside of the cave entrance and there were
two rocks outside of the cave entrance, one rock on

(24:38):
one side of the entrance, one rock was on the
other and on the faces of the rock this one.
And I know this sounds crazy, but I can only
tell you what I saw and how I interpreted it.
Was the DNA, which was about three feet tall maybe
a foot wide, right, the double helix crazy, too beautiful,

(25:00):
and next to it looked to me like a cell
with mitochondria in it, and it was an oval with
it looked like biology class. That's exactly what it looked like.
That's what I was looking at. And I was like,
huh and and and I'm thinking, Rick, I'm thinking, when

(25:22):
I'm thinking, when I see this, that's DNA, that's a cell.
Somebody from behind me goes, it looks like mitochondria. I go, right,
I'm not crazy, am I right? Okay, so, and then
next to that was the the space dude, which was
a human figure with a torso. Wasn't a stick figure,

(25:43):
it was a torso and with with legs and his
arms out, and then he had a helmet on with
a visor and antenna coming out. And I'm looking at that,
I'm like, man, this is like a of breaking news alert.
That's what this. You know, they are preparing for us.

(26:04):
And then you go into the cave and you see
the it's like this crazy origin story, you know, and
it's like right.

Speaker 2 (26:10):
There, biological origin story.

Speaker 3 (26:13):
And nobody paying attention to it. That's the other thing.

Speaker 2 (26:17):
Yeah, well call Ancin Ailin's you'll be there tomorrow, you know.

Speaker 3 (26:22):
Yeah, it's crazy. It's called the grape Vine Petroglyphs greape
Vine and you could just pull up off of the freeway,
make a left hand turn, pull into the parking lot,
walk right up and it's right there. Yeah. Yeah, no
tickets needed. But yeah, the origin story seems very very obvious.

(26:43):
It's beautiful, it's it's intentional. Uh yeah, yeah, it's pretty cool.
It's pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Yeah, they have culture, and that is part of the
culture that some of them don't even understand, Like for instance,
in Maha, they don't claim it. I don't think any
tribe actually claims it, but they know it exists and
they've always known that it existed.

Speaker 3 (27:12):
Yeah, that was, like I said. When you go into
the university papers on this, there's only like two on
all of the Internet about this. They both say the
same thing. The Mohabi Indians say that when they got there,
the petroglyphs were already there. That they know. They don't
know anything about it, And we do know that the
Mahabi Indians arrived twenty two to twenty three hundred years ago,

(27:37):
and that's it. I live in the Mohave Desert out
here in southern California, and I love this part of
the country, and there's stuff like this everywhere. It's all
over the place. We have petroglyphs out and they call
it the Nasca Lines of California out near blythe right,
and those are absolutely incredible. And we didn't even know about.

Speaker 2 (27:59):
The giant human stick figures.

Speaker 3 (28:01):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, And we didn't know about those till
the nineteen fifties, you know. Yeah. China Lake, which is
just a few miles from me, it's right here, it's
right here. I live near Palmdale, so China Lake is
just north of me. I just drove through it actually yesterday.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Well you went right by the big man then, yeah,
actually right over part of him probably.

Speaker 3 (28:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. That again back to my point, there
are things out here. There is a cave that is
just not part of the archaeological record or any of
any concern. But you probably know the area. It's just

(28:46):
up near China Lake. In this mountain up there, there
is a man made cave that was carved and it
goes back. It looks like this. This is what people
do talk about. It looks like whoever dug it, it's
nobody knows how old it is. Was trying to go

(29:07):
through the mountain instead of around it, right, And so
they got They got about a quarter mile in and
it's almost big enough to drive. I think you can
drive a car into it. Some people have and have
driven to the back, but you have to back out.
You can't turn around. But it just ends like a
quarter mile into this mountain and it's just sitting there.

(29:28):
But it's a man mate. Nobody cares. It's like, h whatever,
and there it's.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Our academia and our scholars, let's call them scholars, have
operated under the dogma that Native Americans could never organize
anything big. They didn't use infrastructure, they didn't carve in rock,
they didn't use metal at all. They didn't have writing
or sophisticated language. They had seventeen hundred different languages on

(29:55):
the continent, supposedly, and I don't doubt that. But they
had at least one that everybody could understand, and it
was sign language. They could all talk by sign language.
And they did have writing systems, not just in Central
and South America, but they had them up here too.
And I've been working, as I said, with the ho

(30:16):
Chunk and a couple of other tribes to try to
i'll call it resurrect their writing systems, which basically died
after forced removal. The great thing about forest removal was
it forced the natives who were in Oklahoma or Kansas
to write to their relatives back home, if you will,

(30:39):
the ones that stayed behind, the ones that hid from
the army but still got mail. And we have found
just a few of those letters. So the character, some
of the character, most of the characters are known and
were still trying to they I'm not really part of that,
but I'm cheering them on. They are reconstructing their writing

(31:03):
system from a handful of one hundred and eighty year
old letters, so it's hard, but they're getting it done.
There a couple of them are seventy five or eighty
percent complete on having the full set. Now, it's not
an alphabet. They didn't use an alphabet the way Europeans

(31:23):
did or even North Africans. It was closer to the
Chinese method. It's still a syllabarry. The Cherokee have used
as syllaberry since at least eighteen nineteen. But you know,
suddenly they introduced a syllabarry and two years later they
had a massive printed newspaper in their own written language

(31:45):
that everybody could read within two years, Like, yeah, that
was brand new, Sure it was. They still used their
syllaberry eighty four characters in it. And part of my
study has been how did they send that signal? We
have almost no written evidence of it. Besides those letters.

(32:08):
We have a few characters here and there.

Speaker 3 (32:11):
What do you think happened?

Speaker 2 (32:14):
They didn't send letters, they didn't send written messages. They
sent it by a line of sight communication.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah, yeah, wow, that's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
So they had a kind of a tort system at night,
maybe a louver torch, so that they could flash their
light like we would with a telegraph using Morse code. Yeah,
but we're representing letters of an alphabet, and they had
to represent up to eighty four separate characters in the
I'll call it modern version of this signal if you

(32:50):
ever knew a signal. And in the navy, at some
point he used a phrase reading you five by five,
And that phrase has been around in one form or
another since ancient Rome. Because a guy to the name
of Polybius who was a slave slash hostage to Scipio
Africanus's house because Polybius's father was a petty king in Greece. Anyway,

(33:17):
Polybius is the only known first hand witness of the
fall of Carthage. So he recorded how Scipio, how he
taught Scipio how to use a five by five grid
to put their alphabet, whether Latin or Greek, and they
used both, and they would scramble it to code everything

(33:40):
but five by five. And for instance, I'm going to
use English word, but if you went two, three to
four as your message, it would say hi. It's just
two letters, but it's flashes of light. And the Native

(34:01):
Americans didn't have fancy brass or bronze mirrors like they
did in Rome and Carthage because Carthy's had their own system,
but they used Phoenetian punic. The natives, the Native Americans
had micah sheet. You know what micah is. You've seen
a sheet of micah. It's it's kind of a flexible mineral,

(34:22):
real shiny in sunlight, near perfect mirror in sunlight, as
a matter of fact. And you can use it as
a hand mirror today and still send signals. You know,
you know, either the five by five or Morse code.
You can use it that way. And there are examples
of using a real hand mirror that is a when
I say a real hand mireor I'm talking about a

(34:43):
pilot's first surface signal mirror that can send a signal
forty miles through clear air. The US Army in the
eighteen eighties up to the nineteen hundreds, when they were
chasing Geronimo, okay south of you a law, they were
using a heliograph, a system that had been developed in Britain.

(35:07):
They used a little different mirrors in the US. But
they could send signals from point to point to point
using Morse code. And they sent signals all along the
Mexican border for almost four hundred miles, a little over
four hundred miles of one direction, and they tested it
alongside telegraph and alongside telephone and whatever other runners. Of course,

(35:30):
of course four hundred miles is a long way for
a runner. But they would send the signal on all
three and then send it back, check for the error
count and the time elapsed, and by light came in
just short of the telegraph. And of course telephone lines
just didn't hold up. They couldn't successfully keep a telephone
line working. Some things never change.

Speaker 3 (35:54):
Right, right?

Speaker 2 (35:54):
Right?

Speaker 3 (35:55):
Do you remember the TV show The Thunderbirds, remember the Puppins?

Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (36:02):
Do you remember what they said in that show whenever
they communicated five by five?

Speaker 2 (36:07):
I don't by five by five? Yeah? Five?

Speaker 3 (36:11):
So what's the message? You know, captain? Five by five?
Five by five, five by five? Check? And when I
was a kid, I was like, five by five, there's
a message here? I wonder you know, you know, later
I figured it out, but yeah, yeah, it was It
was crazy how many kids learned about five by five

(36:31):
from the frigging Thunderbirds.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
But still had no idea what right, right, right, right?

Speaker 3 (36:35):
Five by five by.

Speaker 2 (36:37):
Five common but it wasn't commonly known. The navies couldn't
have used a five by five, not for eighty four
characters or eighty four plus. But if they did a
five by five by five a three D matrix, then
they could have all their characters and all the orientations,
which is how you change the sound of the syllable,

(37:00):
and you could have your numerics and maybe even some
punctuation or special characters. I don't I'm not there yet.
I don't. I don't think the reconstructors are either, But
it seems to be the only way that you could
make it work for that kind of facillabary encoding within
that well, I don't know. They had seventeen hundred different

(37:21):
spoken languages. I don't know how you did that. Yeah,
I know.

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Yeah, it's fascinating. And when we talk about when we
look at tribal lore, even folklore, right and mythology, and
we look at that, we have the spoken stuff that
has been handed down over generations, we have the written stuff.
There're stuff in stone and what have you. And certainly symbolism.

(37:46):
But what's some of your favorite research into this when
you look at the data, because there is a direct
connection I feel, to Freemasons, to the Vikings, and to
other contact you know from the east and the West.
That was definitely being made there and it shows up

(38:09):
in the symbology in their clothing right and certainly as
it has been handed down in North Central and South America.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
Certainly well, you can start looking at the cultural comparisons.
My favorite is the Algonquin tribes of eastern Canada, the
Maritime tribes and Mick Mack et cetera. And they are
although they don't speak the same language.

Speaker 3 (38:36):
Was that a gun shot? What the hell was that?

Speaker 2 (38:39):
No, actually that was a walnut falling on a tin,
But it sounds like a gunshot.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Many you are off the grid, Yeah, gunshots and you
just keep on going. Algonquin didn't even flinch.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
The Algonquin clothing, the drums, the tools, the way they
prepare food, the way they decorate their clothing and everything
else their their weapons or tools is so similar. And
also the melodies of their songs are very similar to

(39:15):
the Sami people of Lapland. And when you when you
look at a distance, They're not very far apart. They're
closer than let's say, Orlando is to Monogua, Nicaragua, which
by the way, is the same distance it is from

(39:35):
Orlando to Chicago. Sorry, I just had to throw their Yeah,
it was good, not flat maps, it was tasty.

Speaker 3 (39:48):
But the when we look at things like the Back
Creek stone right, which is fascinating, and other indigenous obs
which show Hebrew and mentioning of of things that were
happening in Jerusalem, you know, long, long, long time ago.

(40:14):
This stuff is showing up a lot in in cultures
where I'm not sure who was making the contact. If
that was Egypt, if that was you know, that was
Moses coming over here Jesus, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
Or the hit Nites or the Hebrews with the Phoenicians.

Speaker 3 (40:35):
I'm not sure if it was Columbus, right, I can't,
I can't. I can't again safely say that Columbus is
coming over with Jews on his boats that would come
in and start.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Scribing ancient inquisition.

Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah, yeah, right, I mean anything's possible, Anything is possible.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
There is a pretty strong indication, a little bit of
hard data pointing to that Columbus's step father in law
was of Jewish heritage in Portugal. So it's an interesting
conundrum as far as who did what first, who did

(41:23):
what last? Columbus went home and changed and deserved to.
But I don't want to call it Columbus Day. I
want to call it Explorer's Day. Then we can throw
in a Neil Armstrong or a whole bunch of others.
So you mentioned back Creek stone and anomalous written object,

(41:49):
so to speak. Have you ever heard of the Grave
Creek tablet? Yep, Okay, The Grave Creek tablet, a little
bit of thing about the size of a silver dollar,
had had what several scholars identified as Iberian punic. Several
others said it was something else. But my main point

(42:10):
on it was it had a map with a his
straight east west line between two coasts that resemble well
North America and Africa. But that's just my interpretation. And
of course that stone, the original has actually disappeared from history.
Nobody knows where it went. The copies are supposed to
be pretty good, but we can't see the original.

Speaker 3 (42:34):
No, but it definitely if you look at it, it
could be Africa, it could be Europe, and it could
be the East coast of the United States with a
route in between. That's what I see, you know, you
know what I mean. And that again disappeared from history.
And we hear this over and over again, don't.

Speaker 2 (42:55):
We, especially with giants bones.

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Well, nobody wants Nobody wants to upset the narrative, Nobody
wants to change the dogma, the bullshit that we have
been fed. Nobody wants that change because they're livelihoods and
their careers depend on it.

Speaker 2 (43:16):
Yeah, it's a good thing. My career doesn't depend on this,
drawing a pension from the United States government as long
as it holds out. But there are other written objects
or objects with writing and pictures that fascinate me. I've
studied them countless hours. I've been looking for the sources
where they came from, and won't find any more sources

(43:39):
for the Michigan tablets. I don't know if you're probably aware. Yes,
In fact, one of them was dug up just about
twenty one miles.

Speaker 3 (43:49):
From where you grew up in Waue.

Speaker 2 (43:54):
No, actually in Indiana, Oh, just north of Andersen.

Speaker 3 (44:00):
What.

Speaker 2 (44:01):
Yeah, one of them with canaan form looking writing. It
isn't canea form, but what, Yes, the Michigan tablets weren't
all in Michigan. If you were in Ohio, most were
in Michigan. If you were in Northern Indiana, there was
won by South Bend couple by Fort Wayne, But there

(44:25):
were supposedly as many as twelve and a half thousand
of them pulled out of mounds all over the region.
They today you probably couldn't put five hundred in a pile.

Speaker 3 (44:39):
Well, these are fascinating. I have seen him before, I've
seen some of them, but uh okay, here we go.

Speaker 2 (44:49):
Ah. No, that's not the only example of large numbered
carved objects that don't fit the dogma for the audience.
You can find mention of the Michigan tablets pretty much
all over the internet. And the other one you can
find is the Burrows Cave objects or specimens or whatever

(45:14):
you want to call them, because they have I've identified
at least five different written scripts, including Phoenician proto who
break Hittite, a weird form of Egyptian script not hieroglyphics,
and Latin all throughout this collection. And I know about

(45:37):
twenty seven hundred different objects supposedly came out of Burrows
Cave so far, and Russ says that there's at least
that many more in it.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
Look at this, Okay, I am going to everybody just
stay just stay put. I'm going to I'm going to
pull this up real quick. And this is pretty fascinating.
And I don't know if you've seen this particular slate,
but so everybody understands what Rick is referring to here,

(46:11):
this is that's pretty fascinating.

Speaker 2 (46:16):
Yes, it is. Now the interesting symbol there in the
middle line within the circle, the ih whatever it is,
is interpreted by several of people in my circle as
what they call the mystic symbol and doesn't that any
of the known languages. But the religious side of the

(46:40):
researchers think it means a father son and holy ghost.
I have a different take on it. I think it
is a trademark. I think this was a company effort,
not a religious effort. There might have been religions supporting
the company, you know, like like I am i Israeli

(47:02):
Military Industries. It's not a religious outfit, but it's certainly
related to a religious background. Now this particular area, Michigan,
and they were none of these had ever been found
in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Did I know of this.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Was found in Crawford, Michigan in nineteen oh nine.

Speaker 2 (47:27):
Dug from a mound.

Speaker 3 (47:29):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, And I am going to pop
this up. Check this out.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Er.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Hold on, everybody, I'm going to show you guys the
reverse of this. Oh I'm sorry, hold on for a second.
That's my bad. That's my uh, that's my commercial running.
Sorry about that.

Speaker 2 (47:53):
Everybody's got to make money somehod.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah yeah, yeah, as they say, okay, this is the
reverse of it. And this is even more interesting. Now
I see the canea form that you're referring to. It's
like so obvious, right, and this is the reverse.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
It isn't really, it isn't exactly canea form. It's close,
it's close, it's close.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
And if you look at the very very very top
of the slate, that's what I'm referring to, everybody, and yeah,
that's what Rick is talking about too as well. And
then if you look at the front, if we look
at this, look at the bottom there that's some kind
of cosmic that looks like a comet or something, some

(48:41):
kind of fireball, and that's definitely the sun or you know,
a planet of some kind on a trajectory with the comet,
and then what is off to the right is that
a constellation? Is that something else? Is that a calendar
timing thing?

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Although there's what's throwing me in because it isn't exactly Egyptian.

Speaker 3 (49:04):
It isn't It looks almost Spartan two.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
It has elements of two or three different culture. It
does it does, it does are not really identifiable.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
Now, well, the one on now, if we look at
this one here, let me pop this one back up.
The guy in the upper left that almost looks like
a cobra on the front of his head, which is.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
That's a very Egyptian looking yeah.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's bizarre man.

Speaker 2 (49:38):
And the mystic symbol shows up at least four times
on this on this reverse. Unless this is actually the obverse,
it's kind of hard to tell.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
This is the reverse. We're looking at the reverse side.
This is the reverse. This is the front.

Speaker 2 (49:52):
That's what it got labeled.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
But right.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
Right, this is the but we don't know who the
army is. There's two arms me's facing each other. One
of them has.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
Bows, the other one has spears, right.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
And the guy on the ground has been pierced with
a spear and has the cobra headdress.

Speaker 3 (50:10):
He he's got the cobra headdress. And the guys on
the left have the cobra headdress. Is the guy on
the guys on the right have mohawks?

Speaker 2 (50:19):
Yeah, that's crazy, like they were maybe mohawks, but some
Phoenicians wore that too. Now here's where it gets really interesting.
This symbol, this mystic symbol shows up in the Burroughs
cavestones as well, but this script does not other than

(50:42):
the mystic symbol.

Speaker 3 (50:44):
This is fascinating. I've heard of these, I've never looked
at them. I'm going to do the deep dive. Now,
there's definitely.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
I'm sorry I got you started on now this is great.
There for a long time.

Speaker 3 (50:54):
I just love this stuff. This is why I do this,
this journey, you know, and seeing stuff like this. Now
this is where Okay, so this is found in nineteen
oh nine. Let me tell you why I have trouble
with the mainstream university system and education and professional archaeology

(51:16):
and geology and all of that. An anthropology if you
go back to nineteen hundred, okay, nineteen hundred, who knew
about ancient script enough to hoax something. You didn't have

(51:38):
the Internet, man, you didn't have You couldn't go down
to the You couldn't go and look at Phoenician. We
don't even understand Phoenician today we bear You know how
many people read Smerian text on this planet right now? Right?
It doesn't oh maybe six It used to.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
Be arisingly surprisingly, Google trans like getting real good.

Speaker 3 (52:01):
Yeah, they're getting pretty good at it. I use it
all the time. But if we back up to nineteen hundred,
to the turn of the century, who could hoax this stuff?
I who write an ancient Hebrew in eighteen seventy the
back creak stone? Who? The answer is nobody?

Speaker 2 (52:23):
That is the right answer. But having said that, the
way they just declared the Michigan tablets was, oh, well,
here's a letter from the step daughter who incidentally hated
the man who no and he made all of them
in the shed out back, all twelve thousand of them.

Speaker 3 (52:47):
I remember reading this. Now I'm going to jump into
this tonight. This is fascinating. I remember that. Yeah, he
had it is oh man, no electricity, no dremmel, right
right right.

Speaker 2 (53:03):
And over one hundred and fifty year period that they
were discovered.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
In different states, in different locations.

Speaker 2 (53:11):
So yeah, the list of hoax excuses is it reads
like a rogues gallery. Very creative people, though, I'll admit that.
Now getting back to the Burrows cavestones and Google Translate,
there's one particular stone out of the entire collection that

(53:32):
I think is translated with near zero errors by GROC
and Google Translate. They came very close together, and we
call it the Scurvy Stone, and Brian Nettles is the
one who actually performed the translation. It is Phoenician. It's
not hit tight or proto a break and it is

(53:56):
and I'll paraphrase that I don't have it in front
of me. Uh, you've got it. Look at your mouth,
count your down, your time, your cognitive and health general
health is uh declined, You've got scurfy. And then and

(54:21):
of course it's red right to left and it's five
vertical lines of text and to the far left there's
a little drawing, uh straight line horizontal and then Spike's
coming into it. Five of them, which incidentally is used
in North Africa as a symbol for the sacred lotus,

(54:46):
which is high in vitamin C invitamin B important to sailors.
You're out to c for three or four months. They're
not selling it to the public back home. They're selling
it to the sailors at C. And because it's read
right to left, it made me think of Burma shave sign.

(55:09):
And I'll bet you a dollar it would rhyme if
we knew how to read it out loud.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
Now, what do you make of And I've looked. There's
a lot of stones that came out of the Boroughs
Cave and it's uh for it's b u is it
r r? Yeah, it's b u r r o w S.
It's not b u r o U g h s
or or whatever. It's b u r r Right. I'm
going off memory here, but I remember I remember was

(55:38):
the stone that had the lines coming off of it?
Uh didn't that have like a cross on it too?

Speaker 2 (55:47):
There were several of them. There were several of them
that appeared Christian in.

Speaker 3 (55:50):
The Christian it's a Christian, not an X but a
Christian a crucifix correct.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
And there were also standing walking scenes of a person
resembling Christ with holes in his hands and feet, scars
on his head. So there was some element of Christianity
or maybe it was part of the prophecy before Christ.

(56:17):
I don't know, but we have other cultural stuff that
appears to be like six hundred BC, very middle of
Venetian glory, if you will. Where I get the connection
between these two sets of tablets or objects is because
of one particular mapstone in the Borough's Cave collection shows

(56:41):
a very clear delineation of territories between the northern group
Michigan Tablet group and the southern group, the Burrough's Cave group.
And it was a trade maps. These people up here
got the trade with these Indians and that copper, and

(57:02):
these people down here got the trade with these Indians
and these muscles. Because you go find, yeah, that's one
of them.

Speaker 3 (57:12):
That that's Hayes Seuss on the cross right there.

Speaker 2 (57:17):
Sure looks like it. That's what that looks like to me,
right hand to god.

Speaker 3 (57:22):
Wow, man, Yeah, I remember this. There's a few stones
like this. This isn't the only one.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Oh no, there are twenty seven hundred rus objects.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
Yeah, yeah, there's a there's a bunch and a lot
of a lot of a lot of scripts, a lot.

Speaker 2 (57:38):
Of scripts at least five that I've found, right And
Scott Walter who had America on Earth once owned I
don't know, four hundred or so of the stones, and
he had in his possession one stone that was the
Rosetta stone that had all five scripts on it.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
I remember, I remember, I've talked to Scott about this
many many times, and it's just such a fascinating subject
to me, and which goes back and especially when I
look at this, when we look at the discovery and
the timing of it, and you go back to this
kind of period in history, what scholar is walking around

(58:20):
with the knowledge of these ancient scripts and would they hoax,
you know, and manufacture this? I don't see it. The
same thing with the Kensington roomstone too as well. That's
another fascinating That script is very deliberate. The dating and
what is on it is very deliberate, and I just

(58:40):
don't I just don't think I.

Speaker 2 (58:43):
Find it very plausible too. But here's what most people,
as far as I know, nobody besides myself has prompted
with it. It is a land claim saying survey. And
when it says we were out fishing one day, that
is one of the interpretations of that word. Another interpretation

(59:04):
is casting, which is I won't say it an archaic form,
but it's an old form of the word used by
surveyors to send a line. So they were out surveying
one day.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Yeah, that's where it does it. It's really dangerous. We
could be the United States of Scandinavia. You know, if
they really wanted to, they really wanted to push the issue,
I would say that they've got They've they've got a
pretty good challenge.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
The Goths were almost certainly according to and this is
used in Scott's research, Scott and Nielsen's research, they were
almost certainly Cistercian monks. The twenty two Norwegians were probably sailors, hunters,
protectors and basically ne're do well. But the Goths were

(59:56):
religious folk.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
Let's take our break right here. I don't want to
get too far past our break. Our guest I Rick
Osmond is with us, ODZ. I'm gonna come up with
the new nickname tonight. This is fade to Black. I'm
you know, it's Jimmy Church.

Speaker 2 (01:00:13):
Rick.

Speaker 3 (01:00:13):
You stay right there, We're going to take our break.
This is Fade to Black. Stay with us. We'll be
right back.

Speaker 4 (01:00:35):
Subscribe to our YouTube channel, get your alerts and access
to over two thousand videos. Click that subscribe button right now.
Go to Jimmy Church Radio dot com and get the
Fade to Black Official podcast two thousand episodes, all of
them commercial free for just two dollars a month. Watch

(01:01:16):
Into the Vortex on Guy at TV. It's fade to Black.
For the screen.

Speaker 3 (01:01:22):
Simple to do, go to Guy dot com, search Jimmy
Church or click on the link below. Follow Fade to
Black on Twitter at ja Church Radio. Get all of
the show updates every single day. It's now called X
but who cares? How you doing? Jimmy Church here special announcement.

(01:01:46):
Get your Fade the Black T shirts. That's right, Help
support the show, help support everything that we do over here.
We've got two T shirts. We've got two ways to
get them. Get your Fade the Black T Shirt day,
Go Backlee Tappy. Go to Jimmy Church Radio dot com
and become a fad or Not. Get a membership. That's right.

(01:02:10):
Everything is commercial free. You have access to downloads, and
you get to call yourself a fade or Not. Jimmy
Church Skuy TV. Fade to Black here at Machupichu with
Brian Forrester and Hidden Inca Tours amazing tour so far, Brian,
but we're here to announce what we're gonna do next

(01:02:31):
year in twenty twenty six. What's going on?

Speaker 5 (01:02:33):
Okay, November twenty twenty six, we're going to have our
major tour of Peru and Bolivia, either a pre or
post tour of Perakas and Nasca on the coast, and
then after that six days.

Speaker 3 (01:02:47):
In Easter Island bucket list, Easter Island. Come join Brian
and Iroan his amazing team here at Hidden Incoturs four Peru,
Bolivia and Easter Island. Signing out, say goodbye, Brian, Bye gang. Yeah.

(01:03:08):
Rivermoon Coffee, makers of the Fade to Black Blend, truly
the best coffee on planet Earth. Just visit Rivermoonwellness dot
Com or their Amazon story. If it's all simple to do,
you can check out the Fade to Black Blend, the
Game Changer Blend, or any of their Black Moon Wellness products.
It's the only coffee I drink. It is the best,

(01:03:29):
and it's doc again Rivermoonwellness dot Com. All right, welcome

(01:03:58):
back Fade to Black. I I'm your hostrem meatuur Tonight.
Rick Osmon is with us OZ and we're talking about
the lost history of the United States. This is a
fascinating conversation. And Rick check us out. This. This is
one of the starts of my journey of being pissed off.

(01:04:19):
I was in eighth grade and in Indiana, Indianapolis Belzer
Junior High School, right and took Indiana history required, took
Indiana history. And my teacher said these words to the class,
felt like he was speaking directly to me. We spent

(01:04:41):
a couple of weeks on mound building and the mound builders.
And he then announces to our class that this went
on nationwide and all across the state of Indiana, that
the ancient cultures, the mound builders, built mounds everywhere, but

(01:05:06):
they're all gone. And he says, the cornfields that we
have in Indiana are there because the surveyors came in,
mapped everything out and leveled the mounds. No discrimination, just

(01:05:26):
flattened everything, right, And I'm sitting here, how could they
do that? How can they just erase history? Now there
are mounds left, but there were tens of thousands of them.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Across perhaps hundreds of thousands, all gone, all gone.

Speaker 3 (01:05:47):
It's it's disgusting. And we you know, we talk about
the exciting research that goes on, you know, in Mexico
and South America and each of and all across the
UK and stuff where it's a different attitude. Here, we
just leveled it and erased it so we could grow stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:06:11):
It's just well, that was the only purpose though, the
real purpose was to erase their culture. That's also why
we put all their kids in government schools and kept
them from learning their own language or their own medicine,
as the case may be. There's another guy from Indiana.

(01:06:37):
His name's Fritz Zimmerman. I don't know if you've ever
talked to him, but you should try. He has documented
pretty much every mound that was and everything that came
out of the mounds that were. He's recently, when I
say recently, the last fifteen years, you've been concentrating on
giants and Nephelim giants and he has done great work.

(01:07:00):
But you know you're going to miss a few because
there's just not enough room in any book to catch everything.
I think his book on the giants in mounds was
like four hundred and eighty pages.

Speaker 3 (01:07:10):
Yeah, let me, Jessica, John have I had Fritz on
the show? That sounds if I've done too many shows, right,
I just I get it. Yeah, I forget. So I'm
going to refer back and they'll pop it up in
the chat. They'll check that out his name. Okay. So anyway,

(01:07:32):
so back to this.

Speaker 2 (01:07:33):
So, so there are mounds that are not destroyed, and
they're usually not destroyed because there are modern cemeteries on
them or in them. One example at Petersburg, Indian in
Pike County, along the east fork of the White River,

(01:07:53):
there was a mound in eighteen eighteen when the town
was new. The first resident death. They took him out
to the hill and went to bury him, and they
hit a coffin. And inside the coffin was a giant
eight feet four inches tall. Between his legs was a

(01:08:13):
raven haired woman. Between her legs was an infant. And
this is in the Pip County history, by the way,
not just in newspapers, although it was in the Western
Sun newspaper thatuld have been since the coffin was just
as interesting as the burial. The coffin was oak clad
inside and out with sheets of copper. Yeah. So yeah,

(01:08:39):
they were working with metal to it. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:08:41):
I had frits on, I had prints on the show
by the way.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Yeah, and so the idea that all the evidence of
giants is completely gone is probably not right. Just about
fifteen miles from where I'm sitting right now, in nineteen
twenty one, you know, just just one hundred and four
years ago, a giant was dug up near Bedford, Indiana.

(01:09:06):
It's but you don't hear about this stuff near enough.
The r brother they hit it pretty good, but they
ran out of steam too. So the burial mounds aren't
the only types of mounds that are of interest. I
spent probably a total of two or three months on

(01:09:30):
the ground in Wisconsin with effigy mounds, and they're not
just random pictures of animals and stuff. They have a meaning.
I don't know how to read it. Most of the
na the tribes who built them, their descendants don't know
how to read them. If the lodge guys do, they're

(01:09:53):
not passing the knowledge out. So I don't know what
to do about that. But here's what I can tell you.
They're trying to in Green Bay, Wisconsin. They're trying to
use a twenty four acre island out in Lake Michigan
that's like one hundred yards from the shore of Green
Bay has a causeway, and they want to recreate about

(01:10:17):
one hundred of the better effigy mounds of Wisconsin on
that island so that they can spread the word a
little bit. And I want to help them anyway I
can so again, and it's actually.

Speaker 3 (01:10:32):
All of this reminds me I only go not only
I love the evidence and I love the research that
you're doing, but my eyeballs, right, it's my memory, and
this I'm going to state that this is fact. All right,
It's not no, this is fact. Fourth grade, Chicago, Walkegan.

(01:10:55):
Our fourth grade class is going to the Field Museum
in Chicago. Great museum.

Speaker 2 (01:11:04):
That did you see the first when you were first
walk through the door? What did you first sink?

Speaker 3 (01:11:09):
Okay, well it gets better than that.

Speaker 2 (01:11:11):
Okay, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:12):
So we get the brochure for the Field Museum and
on the front of the brochure teach your hands it
out to the class and we got to have our
parents sign the form, you know, all that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:11:25):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
So, but I got the brochure and on the cover
of the brochure is a skeleton of a giant and
it says it on the brochure from the Field Museum.
And now I'm nine years old. I'm on a mission. Man,
I want to go see this giant skeleton. Right. So

(01:11:48):
we jump on the bus. We go to the Field
Museum and I and they had a picture. It was
like in the lobby right right, and it's and I
walk in, man and like, okay, where's the giant skeleton?
And I go up to somebody that what are you
talking about the giant skeleton that's on the brochure? There

(01:12:08):
was no giant skeleton here, And I'm like, what kind
of bullshit it? What you know? And I look back
at that and I think, so I went Rick, I
went on a search for giant skeletons at the Field
Museum and looking for the brochures. It doesn't exist, doesn't exist.

(01:12:28):
It's like, it's like what my memory like, like I'm
making this memory up, not making this memory up. It
was an event. It was an event. It was something
that I was looking. It is gone. I can't find
any reference to it anywhere on the internet.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
No, but I saw the same picture. It existed, or
at least the brochure existed.

Speaker 3 (01:12:55):
Will you remember it? Oh? Yeah, yeah, we're not crazy,
are we.

Speaker 2 (01:13:02):
No? I'm ten years older than you. And it wasn't
the brochure that they were using when I was at
the museum, but I did see a picture, and in fact,
I think maybe Fritz had a picture of it. Maybe
not in his book, but he had a picture of
the brochure. But yeah, there are all kinds of oddities

(01:13:24):
that we know happened and somehow got erased. One of
my favorite examples there used to be a twenty five
twenty eight foot tall statue sandstone bedrock carved in the
shape of a sitting dog, facing west. It was in Tennessee,

(01:13:46):
and railroad came through and toward all up toward down.
It was by all accounts it was an absolutely beautiful statue,
had been there forever. But they came throwing a tort
out for the rail bed. Now the rail bed twenty
feet from where the statue had been. And this is

(01:14:11):
where I go back into Yes, they did this stuff
on purpose. The guy who had at that particular time
when they through that railroad, his name was Major John
Wesley Powell, and he was a cookie cutter hero from
the Civil War, lost in army at Shiloh, traveled down

(01:14:33):
the Colorado River in a boat parogue by himself one
armed man down the Colorado River by himself, came back.
I'm a hero, and they said, where's the pictures? I
didn't take a photographer while you're going back. So he
went back, and as a result of that second trip,

(01:14:55):
he was appointed as the secretary maybe president of the
Illinois Geological Society, and he bootstrapped that into the second
director of the United States Geological Survey. And while he
was still in that position, he scripted the creation of

(01:15:19):
the Bureau of Ethnology for the Smithsonian Institution and wore
both hats. He directed both entities for a period of time,
so he not only knew where these features were, these
embarrassing damn things that Indians couldn't possibly have built, but
he could direct the railroads to put their path there.

(01:15:40):
And it happened at least six places I can identify.
He was deliberately destroying sites that were embarrassing to the dogma.

Speaker 3 (01:15:49):
Why I'm watching the chat here? Well, I'm not watching
the chat, but this is something that's repeating in the
chat right now. Why why deny the existence of giants?
I mean why specifically that? And just like I'm going
to layer this question just a little bit because just

(01:16:11):
like we don't pay enough attention to the indigenous cultures
here and their history. We don't do that, and we
want to dismiss whatever it is if it goes into
the fantastical. There's that part. There are references to giants
and giant skeletons in America all over the place, thousands

(01:16:34):
and thousands of references of this all over the place.
What's the big deal? Why deny that? I think it's fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
Well, they also deny aliens and fairy and leprechauns, all
the little people, which, by the way, the Native Americans
do not deny little people. They celebrate them, encourage them,
pay them, leave them out goodies so that they don't
destroy the place. The puck Wagenee or puck Wodgies if

(01:17:09):
you're in New England. There are different names for him
in other parts of the country, but Puckwageny is one
of the most common, and I find it most fascinating
because the last two syllables are the same as the
de gen Genie of the Middle East, and same descriptors,
same characteristics. They're little tricksters, they're dark skinned, they're dark

(01:17:35):
mood and they'll steal your children.

Speaker 3 (01:17:38):
Well, we have right here near me, we have Cataline
Island and we have the Channel Islands. So much research,
noted stuff, publications, newspapers covered covered the giants that were
recovered there, and the Smithsonian allegedly, well I believe it

(01:18:02):
probably you know, came in, took the evidence, threw it
overboard and dropped it into the ocean. And again it
makes me angry. But this isn't one isolated incident or
one story. You know, out here in the Channel Islands
and Catalina. It's everywhere across the United States. It's the same.

Speaker 2 (01:18:23):
It's everywhere across both continents. It's not just the United States.
Canada has a vendetta against proof of Norse incursion. They
can't do it now, I mean, Lonzo metals is done.
They can't erase Lonzo medals. But Patricia Sullivan went up

(01:18:45):
further up north and she found evidence that they were
using metals. She found wetstones where they've been sharpening stuff, hooks, knives, whatever.
And she was fired. And all the research was taken
by Park of Canada. They don't want to know, they
don't want that sovereignty question answered.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
The Copper in Lake Michigan that is such a fascinating
part of our history.

Speaker 2 (01:19:15):
Oh I can fill up this hour with that one.

Speaker 3 (01:19:17):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, well oh oh oh, and we'll do absolutely.
I'm fascinated with the story and or the blue dyes,
you know from the southern United States, purple dyes used
in the Mayan cultures, and and so how did that happen?
Nobody wants to talk about it, right.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
It's like everybody's they're still denying long distance trade.

Speaker 3 (01:19:42):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
But the copper and probably other commodities including purple dye
and various other things, various medicinal substances were traded I think,
over very long distances, including transatlantic, particularly with the copper.
Very recently October third, fourth fifth or second third fourth,

(01:20:09):
in the morning of the fifth, they had what they
call the Ancient Artifact Preservation Society Convention conference in Michigan
at a hoach I'm sorry, at a Potolotomy casino in Harris, Michigan.
And the focus of this year was the copper. Where

(01:20:30):
did it go? Because there have been a number of
scholars who totaled up the number of minds estimated the
number of tons of copper that disappeared from Michigan before
modern times, and the Michigan copper is unique. It is
not an ore. It comes out as native metal. It's pure,

(01:20:54):
it's ninety nine point seven five to ninety nine point
nine percent copper as a nut. You don't have to
refine it, you don't have to smell it, you don't
have to do any of that. Sorry, there is no
comparable source anywhere else in the world. So you have

(01:21:15):
all the archaeologists in the old world said, well, where
did we get all this copper? Because our copper sucks?
And all the archaeologists, all the scholars in Michigan in particular,
they're saying, where'd all this copper go? Over there? They're saying,
why did they add so much silver to the copper? Well,
look at this, it comes in with silver nuggets right

(01:21:37):
inside the copper nugget. How does that happen, Well, it
doesn't happen anywhere else.

Speaker 3 (01:21:43):
So, uh, Now, millions of tons of copper were mined.

Speaker 2 (01:21:49):
Yeah, and along the particularly along the keewan Off Peninsula
and a little bit to the west, southwest and on
Aisle Royal, which is an amazing feed all by itself
because you only get to work about four months out
of the year. You can't survive there over a winter period.
It just the National Park Service won't leave anybody out

(01:22:13):
there over a winter. So this copper, as pure as
it is, can't be duplicated by any other source on
the planet that we know of. Inside the planet perhaps,
but it must be way down. And my part of
contributing to the conference, even though I didn't attend, I

(01:22:34):
helped one of the speakers assemble his stuff, and I
drew the comparison that you know, OTSI, the Iceman's axe
was a sayed at ninety nine point seven two percent copper,
which isn't possible in the old world. Ooh, hard bang

(01:22:58):
right there. The other thing, the chief, I would have
to call it additive to that act, was not a contaminant.
It was deliberate and it was arsenic and arsenical. Bronze
existed long before ten bronze did Atsi's system. His tissues,

(01:23:20):
his hair was full of arsenic. It's a wonder it
didn't kill him, that's right. But an arrow killed it.
So he was shot in the back. By the way,
I think there might have been a woman involved. Just saying.

Speaker 3 (01:23:34):
Well done, well played, along with not only him Assi.
But the other stuff that is found underneath the ice
up there in the Alps indicates trade with the Far
East and the far West. Very crazy things were found

(01:23:57):
up there, and I'm talking about stones and jewelry and
gemstonees and silk silk that were traded into the area
and came from long distances, which it just doesn't make
any amber amber, that's right.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
So going back to the north for just a minute.
I never can pronounce the name correctly, but the ship
mound that they dug up and found a queen and
her maid. There's another walnut. That particular mound had silk

(01:24:36):
and silver that they've identified as Chinese in origin, and
we're talking eight hundred eighty. But there was no long
distance trade like that. Yeah, right, it's going to go there.
So the copper is a core story of how long
have we been crossing these oceans? And that's probably the

(01:24:58):
most important heart of the research is not only who,
but what, where, when, why, how how much, how long
or how often? You know, you've got fourth century Roman
glass beads found in fourth century Japanese graves, but there

(01:25:18):
was no long distance or fast trade.

Speaker 3 (01:25:21):
We found the central found the same thing in in
North America. You know when we look at uh uh
these different areas uh here in North America were beads
and artifacts from South America. And that's what None of

(01:25:42):
that was supposed to have happened in Central America too
as well, indicating a trade route uh coming up directly
into the United States.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
And it's there up the Mississippi. Yes, yeah, yeah, Poverty
Point and which we say that Poverty Point is probably
two thousand BC, but Watson Break and all the others
around it are three thousand and four thousand, maybe even
seven thousand years old seven thousand BC, so nine thousand

(01:26:16):
years old. But we can't really put our finger on
why they built those mounts. All the burials are intrusion,
et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I said, through in Louisiana,
through up above the skyline, you can send signals. It's
it's really very simple people.

Speaker 3 (01:26:35):
What do you make of I want to get into
King Arthur two as well, But what do you I
think one of the special spots here again just ignored
Chaco Canyon, and I bring.

Speaker 2 (01:26:51):
Up chacocann two gallons of water, Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:26:54):
Yeah, exactly. So we look at Chaco Canyon now obviously beautiful, Okay,
so you can sell the construction the time, the importance
of it. Okay, Yeah, that's theory.

Speaker 2 (01:27:11):
Apartment buildings made with logs from fifty miles away, fifty
miles away, perfectly straight line.

Speaker 3 (01:27:17):
And artifacts from Central and South America littered all over
the place, and the symbolism and the petroglyphs right, and
the hieroglyphs that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
Are the way, but it's not to me, it's.

Speaker 3 (01:27:30):
Not the most interesting part. It's the cosmology that is there.
And chack Ocanyon's main site, the one that we paid
attention to. There's two others that line ups, and it's
totally ignored. And then we look at it an indigenous
culture that came in and built us over hundreds, if

(01:27:51):
not thousands of years of a very important site with
trade routes and roots that we can follow that came
into it. So it is very important. But it lined
up east west, north, south north star cosmology, straight line,
perfectly straight lines, all of it ignored. Nobody wants to

(01:28:12):
talk about it. Where does this intelligence come from? When
we talk about ancient astronomy and how difficult it must
have been to build these sites without any high tech. Well,
it appears that there must have been some kind of
high tech and knowledge from somewhere right.

Speaker 2 (01:28:34):
Well, there was the knowledge of trigonometry, for sure, but
they didn't write anything down apparently. Well that's not true.
I've been to places, not out there so much. But
in particular, there's a place in eastern Kentucky, Manchester County

(01:28:54):
called Stable Rock because it was used as a stable
and there are you don't have to call it, classroom
instructions carved into the rock on top of it showing
the alignments showing how to do apparently, how to do
the calculations without any symbols of numerical values or anything

(01:29:16):
like that. But the alignments are true. That you can
find mounds, particularly in Kansas, you can find Isosceles triangles,
right triangles, et cetera, laid out as the corners of
perfect triangles with mounts. Pythagorean theorem in action right there.

Speaker 3 (01:29:39):
Same thing at Taco Canyon and the two additional sites.
They're fifteen miles away.

Speaker 2 (01:29:47):
Another interesting, since you'd mentioned the connection to South Central
and South America. If you look at the Yucatan remnants relics,
the the infrastructure they're on a ten by ten grid,
ten miles by ten miles grid. They're set up in squares.

(01:30:09):
It's a perfect distance to use line of site with mirrors, just.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
Saying yeah, I know, oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:30:18):
And they used they used everything for mirrors. They used micah,
they used pyrite, they used obsidian, polished flat. There's a mirror,
a flat obsidian polished mirror in the Tower of London. Uh.
That came from Montezuma. How it got to London, nobody knows,

(01:30:39):
but it was a scrying mirror quote unquote that he
used to know that they were on their way. So
they were using some kind of the line of site
communication with mirrors, the old mecha. They used polished pyrite,
which decays with oxygen. By the way, they had mech

(01:31:00):
new ones all the time overseas. They were using brass, bronze,
you name it, copper, and.

Speaker 3 (01:31:07):
That's a Can we talk about the O MAC for
a second. Sure, here's my again. I'm the male side
of my brain loves what we're looking at. The size, right,
the beauty, it's you know, how did they move there?

(01:31:27):
How did they make Okay, yes, absolutely all right, but
you look at that and that's not a culture from
around here. That's not a f that's not that's not
a face from around here.

Speaker 2 (01:31:42):
And and you hear most people say, oh, you look
sub Saharan African to me, but I don't agree. I look,
do you see I see Tonga, Oh Polynesian. Go look,
go look at the council members of the Tonga National

(01:32:03):
or I don't know what territorial council, and you'll see
that face. Samoa's pretty similar. Parts of Hawaii are similar,
but the Tonga man falls right in there.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
When you go to that. It's kind of obvious now
because it's talked about, but I've seen it with my
own eyes. And you go to Timanaku and you go
to the sunken temple there that they have and it's
in a square. But a lot of people have talked
about this site because of what it represents. And there's

(01:32:40):
about I don't know, one hundred different faces that are
carved and placed into this wall, right, but what you
are able to do and there is there's a couple
of et grays. Yeah, it looks definitely different. And you
want to see aliens and yeah, okay, I see an

(01:33:02):
alien face, but that's not what's most interesting to me,
Just like the omes when you walk around and you
look at each face next to each other, and there's
like three high maybe you know, and I don't know.
It's fifty feet not probably one hundred feet square, So
I don't know how many faces there are. There's a lot,

(01:33:23):
but they're all there. You see beerds, you see turbans,
you see baldheads, you see Chinese, you see Asian, you
see white, you see couckages, you see American. You see
everything that you can imagine. Big nose, small nose, big chin,
no chin, mustage.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
The only thing missing is faronic.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
Oh well maybe well some of them are pretty worn
and could be almost anything. Is there any direct Egyptian? Yes,
you want me to tell you the yes? Yeah, Lake
Titty Kaka. You go to Lake Titty Kaka and you

(01:34:05):
go to the floating islands there and you look at
the boats. Those are Egyptian and they're made from reads.
There's just absolutely no question about what you're looking. You
would think, you know when you first float in. I've
been there four times now, right, I'm going to be
there in a couple of months. You know, I'll go

(01:34:28):
twice a year. When you roll in on the boat
and you see the first read boat, and there's hundreds
of them, you know, but when you see the first one, well,
I could be I'm a Nile, you know, I could
be in Cairo right now and it's it's it's mind blowing.

(01:34:50):
So I see it direct. There's other stuff there, but
that is just obvious.

Speaker 2 (01:34:56):
When you go to Egypt and I think it's at Luxor,
but I'm not certain. I will have to research it.
There's someplace there's a mural showing denial and read boats
on it, and there's a canoe with a redskin person.

Speaker 3 (01:35:12):
Oh really in Luxer. Okay, I'll look for it. I'll
look for it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:16):
I'm not sure it's a Luxur, but there is one.
The late Fred Reidholme was over there and he saw it,
and he's he wrote the book Michigan Copper, the ud
told story. Just in case you want to get the
full story, he's got it. But do you know what
the Egyptian word for canoe is? What? Canoe?

Speaker 3 (01:35:38):
You know what the Egyptian word for cat is cat?

Speaker 2 (01:35:42):
Miaw mieah, of course it is.

Speaker 3 (01:35:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:46):
But you mentioned the types of boats and how they
reflect contact that's a pretty good place to start with
contacts with a boat. And you said you want to
talk about King Arthur, I do, so let's start with
Meriwether Lewis. Meriwether Lewis was ordered by Thomas Jefferson to

(01:36:08):
go down the Ohio from Pittsburgh, up the Mississippi to
the Saint to the Missouri and go west, go explore
what we just bought. Oh, by the way, you have
to stop in Saint Louis and actually sign the papers. Yeah,
Thomas Jefferson did not sign the papers for the Louisiana purchase.

(01:36:32):
Meriwether Lewis did, well. Skip all the in between. They
get to the Mandan village and they spend the winter there,
and the night before they take off to go to
the Pacific coast. Because they knew where they were going,
he wrote in his journals something to the effect of
these are beautiful people. They've been very hospitable, and tomorrow

(01:36:57):
my little fleet, our little fleet, takes all on this
wild journey that I first dreamed up ten years ago.
It's like, wait, what ten years ago? You just bought
this thing five months ago. And while he was in Pittsburgh,
he picked up a pre contracted folding iron gizmo that

(01:37:22):
turned into a coracle style boat when you put a
hide over it, like a buffalo hide. Coracle is a
boat that's common in Wales. Part of Jefferson's orders to
Lewis was, if you find anything that endangers the sovereignty
of the United States, you will send a coded message

(01:37:44):
back to me immediately.

Speaker 3 (01:37:46):
Is that right?

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
You can go read it for yourself. And so Lewis
took that with him to the Mandan village and they
had their coracles made and they used them. They were
the round boats of Wales. We could go on for
months just about Lewis and Clark, but back to the

(01:38:11):
whole Wales thing. The Mandan were rumored even then eighteen
o two, eighteen o three to have been the descendants
of Welsh colonists. There had been enough explorers go out
there and come back with tales of being able to
speak to them in Welsh and other tribes in Welsh,

(01:38:31):
and Jefferson was concerned about this. This is the whole
sovereignty question. Neither Clark, nor Lewis, nor any members of
the core discovery knew enough Wlsh actually tested. There was
one guy I knew a few words.

Speaker 3 (01:38:49):
Oh man, this is crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:38:54):
So the story the lore of Prince madd not King
Arthur so much at the time, Prince Matic of Wales
having been in North America with colonies, thousands of people,
dozens maybe hundreds of ships to bring all those people

(01:39:15):
with their livestock and all their tools, etc. Those stories
had existed long before Lewis went west. Remember that Jefferson
was our first scientific style archaeologist. He didn't just raid mountains,
he studied the ones on his property in Virginia, and

(01:39:40):
when he spent time in Paris as an ambassador, he
took in the sites at the Louver, which included a
mammoths skeleton from Big Bone Lick in Kentucky along the
Ohio River. He ordered Lewis to stop there and get
another skeleton if he could find one, which he did,

(01:40:02):
but when he loaded it on the boat, the boat
disappeared someplace on the Mississippi, of.

Speaker 3 (01:40:06):
Course it did.

Speaker 2 (01:40:07):
Yeah, So Prince Maddick was rumored to have come aboard
North America at some site in Mobile Bay, Mobile, Alabama,
in about eleven seventy eighty. And of course that's been
disparaged by every historian. Blah, blah blah, that's completeble, it's

(01:40:32):
not complete. Bull. The date is wrong. The date was
actually five seventy or five sixty eight, depending on which
set of documents that still exist in Wales that you
choose to believe. Alan Wilson and Baron Blackett and a
couple other folks have while they were alive, done decades

(01:40:54):
of research into this. Found all the remaining stones that
mentioned King Arthur, Prince Madock, et cetera, et cetera, and
there are multiple such stones. King Arthur the Second, King

(01:41:17):
Arthur the First was great granddaddy to King Arthur the Second.
So it gets really confusing about how King Arthur could
have lived almost two hundred years. Well, it wasn't one guy,
it was two guys. And Maddoc mad Doc may Doc
was half brother to Arthur the second and may Dock

(01:41:43):
was the admiral of the fleet for Wales, and he
was out at sea at a time when a huge
impactor hit the Atlantic Ocean and drove what was left
of his fleet completely west came ashore someplace near Mobile Bay.

Speaker 3 (01:42:01):
Really, okay, I'm okay with it. I'm okay with that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:08):
Took him and his men ten years to build enough
boats back together to get back to Wales, and when
they got there, the place was in shambles. The first
of all. The tsunami from the strike had wiped out
a lot. And you can still find the chevrons both
in Ireland and Great Britain I should say Britain, not

(01:42:29):
Great Britain. Then and there was famine et cetera. It
was the only time in history of Wales that they
had bought wheat from overseas, and that part is known
as history. So it was also the beginning of what
we call the Dark Ages. But it had nothing to

(01:42:51):
do with the loss of riding. It was actually dark.
The sky was embedded with all the particle particulates, et
cetera from this strike for years, maybe centuries.

Speaker 3 (01:43:02):
Yeah, there was a lot of famine, a lot of famine. Uh,
the the weather was completely tweaked. People were starving. Yeah, yeah, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep.
Here's the loss of but the loss of writing part,
it's significant and and and I I truly believe I

(01:43:26):
want your take on this. I truly believe that there
are attempts to cover up that era for a lot
of different reasons. But the facts are the facts. When
Rome fell and Rome pulled out, the Romans had the intelligence,
they had, the writing system they had, and once they
pulled out, the education system that was in play, and

(01:43:47):
the only things that were left there were people that
could write. But they were religious. They were the priests.
There were and they were documenting plenty of stuff. But
what was in their world? What was going on out
there there? We have that, you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (01:44:06):
They had no idea what was going on.

Speaker 3 (01:44:07):
They didn't have any idea. Were plenty of history that
was documented throughout the Dark Ages. To say that there
was no writing, that's bullshit.

Speaker 2 (01:44:16):
But well you also you also had the monumental writing
of the royalties because if they put a land grant
it was a stone.

Speaker 3 (01:44:23):
They found a way to write that, didn't they. Yes, yeah,
So to say that there was no writing anywhere, no,
that's not true. But the Dark Ages was also because
of the weather and what had gone on.

Speaker 2 (01:44:37):
By the early ninth century off of Norway or Denmark.
Saint Oloff later wrote from Rome back home that this
place is great. I can see the stars at night.
He was further south, he was out of the blast zone,

(01:45:00):
right right right, You had the chevrons from the tsunami
thirty six miles inland in the Carolinas. So we know
that that strike happened, and we have a really good
idea of when because of the fourteen dates in those chevrons.

(01:45:21):
Five thirty six by our calendar, but the Welsh used
a different calendar. They started their calendar at the time
of death of Christ, not the time of birth.

Speaker 3 (01:45:31):
There is and I know we're talking about North America,
but the evidence because you brought up boat at five
hundred AD, right, and here in North America, those the
design of those boats and what was being used traces

(01:45:55):
all the way back to the Phoenicians and the Egyptians,
and that knowledge of boat building is all over the place,
including Great Britain that you know and some of those
how do I say this? I want to say this
with respect to those of Great Britain and here in

(01:46:17):
the United States. The evidence is so obvious and it's
right there that it's too much for people to acknowledge.
We have the boats. The boats are there, we can
look at. They're identical to what the Egyptians were building
and what was going on in the Eastern Mediterranean. The

(01:46:38):
same so somebody was either coming here teaching right how
to build those boats, or they floated those boats in
and the boats survived. Either way, we have the historical
record there. But that is a huge, huge amount of denying, right.

Speaker 2 (01:46:56):
We also have a bunch of replicas that proved points.
You had the Kantiki voyage, you had all of those voyages.
But another guy, Philip Beale, contracted to build a perfect
replica of a Phoenician ship that was discovered in near
Marseille in the River, and he sailed that one from Tunis,

(01:47:23):
which is ancient carthage, all the way to the eastern
end of the mid all the way around Africa and
back and up around the British Isles, up to the
British Isles, i should say, and back to Tunis to Mauritania.
They refitted, and then they took off and sailed it
to Fort Lauderdale, Florida, proving that a craft built as

(01:47:49):
the original, with the original tools, the original materials, the
original craftsmanship couldn't make it across that ocean. He shelled
it greater than thirty thousand nautical miles before it got
swamped in a canal and a hurricane in Florida. That ship,
that replica is now on display in Montrose, Iowa. It

(01:48:11):
cut it into the little pieces, took it up there
and reassembled it so you can go see it. It's
about thirty one tons of cargo capacity. Now I'm going
to jump to a different kind of craft, and it's
a dugout canoe. There's one on display at Falling Waters
Casino in Michigan, Upper Michigan. Thirty nine and thirty nine

(01:48:37):
feet and four inches I think is its length five
feet in an inch, its beam fourteen and a half inches.
Its gunnal I did the math. It'll support over forty
one hundred pounds of cargo.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
Really.

Speaker 2 (01:48:54):
Yeah. This one is particularly weird though, because it has
two iron bars across the gunwale beams holding it together.
The wood dates to twelve hundred eight dep so.

Speaker 3 (01:49:05):
It's not carved out of one piece of wood. It's
a construction.

Speaker 2 (01:49:07):
It is.

Speaker 3 (01:49:08):
Oh, it's carved out of one piece of wood.

Speaker 2 (01:49:11):
Right, but they put the iron bars in it to
keep the gunwales.

Speaker 3 (01:49:14):
Man, what kind of tree is big enough to have
a forty one hundred pound displacement.

Speaker 2 (01:49:22):
That one? If I'm trying to do the recall on this,
But I think that one was cottonwood.

Speaker 3 (01:49:32):
Man, it's a big cottonwood tree.

Speaker 2 (01:49:34):
Yeah, five over five feet in diameter at midpoint. Now,
what do you make of not impossible?

Speaker 3 (01:49:41):
What do you make of the Ferraby boats?

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
I'm sorry?

Speaker 3 (01:49:45):
What the Fariby boats? The ferrybe Okay? The Feriby boats
were found in Faribe, Uk and dated to two thousand
BC from Egypt.

Speaker 2 (01:49:59):
Were they the the lap of the laced.

Speaker 3 (01:50:03):
Yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, built and identical construction to
what is found next to the Great Pyramid and yeah,
and drawings and stuff and so you look at it.
That's not coincidences.

Speaker 2 (01:50:19):
It's not. But I my prediction is I probably won't
live long enough to see it. But if they ever
get a really good means of examining the bottle of
the bottom of the channel, they'll find a lot of them.
Because dogger Land wasn't always underwater.

Speaker 3 (01:50:39):
No, that's right, that was a land bread.

Speaker 2 (01:50:42):
Right up until about nine thousand years ago. It was
above water. Yeahs As the sea rose, they started sailing
them further and further inland, and the same thing would
happen with those the cargo canoe. Now about forty one

(01:51:03):
hundred years BC, the water levels changed in North America
a lot, because you know, the so called Younger Drives
was over, you know, four thousand years before that, but
the water had not all drained off. So you had

(01:51:24):
this giant lake up there where Superior, Michigan you're on
r and you could at that time. I'm pretty sure
I can prove it. You could get in that large
canoe at say Aisle Royal with your cargo of copper,

(01:51:44):
and you could sail it through the river system, the
Wabash River System, the Ohio River System, the Mississippi River system,
and you could come out of Poverty Point without ever
doing a portage or getting out of your boat.

Speaker 3 (01:52:00):
You could probably make it to the Atlantic too.

Speaker 2 (01:52:04):
Yes, I'm sure you could. But the easy well no,
not at that time, not without going over the falls.
And Niagara is not a fallse you want to go
over in them?

Speaker 3 (01:52:15):
No, I'm sure you've been there. It's pretty pretty amazing
to see, pretty amazing to witness.

Speaker 2 (01:52:24):
But yeah, I thought, I just don't want to get
it that close to it.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Well, looking at and Randall Carlson is so good at
pointing this stuff out, and I love that guy who's
a dear friend of mine. But when you look at
and I go back to my Indian history class in
eighth grade. He was such a great teacher when he
had said to us, Now, just imagine him telling me

(01:52:49):
this in nineteen seventy six. Right, he goes, all, right,
above our heads was a mile of ice. Right, you're
just a kid, right, you can't even fink, you know,
and you're like, look like, what's he saying?

Speaker 2 (01:53:08):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:53:09):
And it went all the way across, and the ice
came down, and that's why everything's flat. We don't have
any mountains because the ice came down and leveled everything. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
And I'm just picturing it, and I'm just so glad
and so thankful for that class and what he was teaching.
This is very controversial stuff, but he made this part
of the curriculum. But then he explained to us, well,

(01:53:32):
then it melted, and it melted really fast, and the
flood waters came down. This is before. This is thirty years,
forty years before, fifty years before Randall Carlson. And what's
that other guy, Graham Peacock. Yeah, Graham Hancock. Uh, Cram's
a front of mine. I'm just poking fun. Everybody, save

(01:53:53):
your email. Don't write Graham. Jimmy Church just called you
peacock last night. Uh, he will send that email to me.
But way before. Yeah, he's a great guy. Before. I
just got a tut from Santha the other day too
as well. It made me feel pretty good, is that
before all of this there. It's not like Randall's done

(01:54:17):
great work. Graham's done great work. There are many that
have focused on this, but they weren't the first. There
were conversations going on about this for a very long time,
and I had my eighth grade teacher to talk about
the younger dryas and the and the ice age and
the ending of the ice age and the flooding and

(01:54:37):
things like the mound builders and stuff that this. These
conversations were going on in academic circles, but it was
all suppressed and nobody would push it out. But I'm
just so thankful for that. I look back and with
such warmth that it just opened my eyes up to

(01:54:57):
this h revelation that we've been lied to. You know
that this.

Speaker 2 (01:55:04):
Is consistently yeah. Uh you know, let's see, we used
to have this dogma that mankind had only been on
the continent since eleven thousand BC, and about every year
we push it back another three or four thousand years.

(01:55:26):
You got, uh, the guy in South Carolina that's at
what fifty one thousand years and he's finding artifacts. They
told him to stop at eleven.

Speaker 3 (01:55:38):
All all of the archaeologists were told, dude, you go
down four feet at.

Speaker 2 (01:55:46):
The end, you get down to that black stuff, and you.

Speaker 3 (01:55:48):
Do you stop all funding, stop nothing. If everybody needs
to listen to me and listen to Rick, this was
the everybody was told the same thing. The findings that
we were discovering throughout Florida and Louisiana and wag Over Bog,

(01:56:10):
Oh my god, fascinating.

Speaker 2 (01:56:12):
And then.

Speaker 3 (01:56:14):
Everybody pack up your shit out.

Speaker 2 (01:56:17):
Yeah is this true?

Speaker 3 (01:56:20):
This is not made up.

Speaker 2 (01:56:22):
Just for anybody who doesn't know what wind Over Bog
had seven thousand year old bodies that still had brains
in the brain cases.

Speaker 3 (01:56:27):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (01:56:28):
And the fourteen proved the age and the DNA proved it.
Oh wait, they're Scottish, but the burials were sweetish, so
I don't know how.

Speaker 3 (01:56:42):
Yes, they were the same thing. The same thing happened
with the omes. I mean, they were in denial about no,
you know what a new culture being discovered. Now, that's impossible.
There's nothing here. There was nothing to see the spheares
in Costa Rica and Honduras and uh on. What we're

(01:57:03):
finding out about the Mayans today, the not only the connections.
The Mayans went to Chaco Canyon, you know, and nobody
wants to talk about that. In Georgia and Georgia, Alabama.

Speaker 2 (01:57:17):
And here, for instance, you find mays being cultivated in
North America by seven hundred AD. It's like what suddenly
all over they're raising maize, but they're not grinding it
down with the same tools they do in Maya country.
They don't have the long flat matat they were using,

(01:57:40):
you know, your traditional grinder mortar.

Speaker 3 (01:57:45):
Yeah I love that, Yeah, I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:57:47):
But there are examples of the matat that show up
in Kentucky and one over in Missouri and one in Ohio.
They were here the cane. They showed us how they
did it. I should say, they showed the natives how
they did it right right right that our show too.

Speaker 3 (01:58:09):
I want to invite you back. I'll let Michelle know.
There's too many things that we've left on the table.
And what a great conversation tonight. I want to leave
with this though. It just popped in my head. All right,
where did the potato come from?

Speaker 2 (01:58:28):
Great question? Are you aware of the site in northern
Indiana called Potato Creek?

Speaker 3 (01:58:36):
I've heard of it.

Speaker 2 (01:58:38):
Yes, it's not our traditional potato, but it is a
North American almost certainly a North American native root product.
But it shows up in ancient Rome as an exact

(01:59:00):
So did chili, peppers, maize, and a few other things.

Speaker 3 (01:59:03):
At tomatoes and tomatoes, Yeah, it's Italian. No, it's not,
you know, and you know Peru being as ancient as
it is going back, you know, hundreds of thousands of years.
This is not some modern thing. The same thing with

(01:59:24):
the potato there too is what was Well, they did
two thousand different versions of potatoes at different.

Speaker 2 (01:59:34):
Altitudes and almost that many beans.

Speaker 3 (01:59:37):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the corn that came from there too,
is absolutely incredible, and it started showing up. How does
it show up in North America, you know, fifty thousand
years ago? How does it show up in Indiana and
you can trace its roots back? How did it show
up in ancient Rome? How did tomatoes show up? This

(01:59:59):
part of the question amazes me, and I would say, man,
they had ancient trade routes that went back forever. How long?
Well forever.

Speaker 2 (02:00:13):
We'll talk about elephants.

Speaker 3 (02:00:14):
Yeah, but that too as well. Hey, did you know
we're off the air right now, so I didn't get
a chance to say good night, but I'll do it
in a second. Did you know, I'll think of the
island specifically, But mammoths were still alive on islands in

(02:00:35):
Canada five thousand years ago, And yeah, isn't that nuts?
Did you see the video of the mammoths? Yeah, that's it,
that's it, that's it. Yeah crazy. Did you see the
video of the two baby mammoths that they.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
The ones that they what they dug up?

Speaker 3 (02:00:58):
No cloning, the cloned them.

Speaker 2 (02:01:00):
Oh yeah, they were going to Colossus.

Speaker 3 (02:01:04):
Yeah, they're alive. They're about the two babies. I'm going
to say they're probably three feet tall. But here's the
crazy part. The trunk that they have, right, it's short, short, Yeah,
it's trippy, furry.

Speaker 2 (02:01:21):
Well there are no bones to tell us how long
it was in the old one.

Speaker 1 (02:01:24):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:01:25):
I guess that's true too, the frozen examples.

Speaker 3 (02:01:28):
Yeah, yeah, so I watched the video of that over
the weekend. I was like, wow, wow, fascinating.

Speaker 2 (02:01:34):
Rick, Where Wolves are a year old?

Speaker 3 (02:01:36):
Where can everybody chase down your current work?

Speaker 2 (02:01:40):
Okay? I sent your links. We have eight episodes that
are currently available to view for free or download on
YouTube and on what's the other bit not bitstream bit Shoot,
that's it, So they're out there. We got the first
eight episodes we have in us up in the can
for like one hundred and fifty different episodes. I don't

(02:02:02):
know how we'll all get it all done ever, but
we're going to try. Basically everything we talked about tonight
is at least mentioned in those eight episodes, so it
comes out to about seven hours of total edutainment.

Speaker 3 (02:02:19):
Yeah. So we've got the links not only below but
over on our website and throughout social media. Rick, fascinating
conversation tonight. I learned so much. Just thank you for
everything that you do. And we'll do a part two
here as soon as we can. All right, So I'll
have Michelle straighten that out with you, and I look
forward to not only continuing this but our next conversation.

(02:02:43):
Thank you so much, Dido. I'll talk to you live
from Indiana, Rick Osmon, Thank you so much. Rick, have
a good night.

Speaker 2 (02:02:52):
We'll see you soon.

Speaker 3 (02:02:53):
Perfect night on the show. Great way to start off
the week here on Fade to Black. I am your host,
Jimmy Church. I want to remind everybody Tomorrow night we
have Professor Lawrence M. Krause here and we will be
talking about three I Atlas, physics and the Cosmos. We'll
be doing all of that Tomorrow night with Lawrence Krause.

(02:03:13):
I'm hero Jimmy Church. For now. You know what I've
got and that's go back, Lee Teppy Baide to Black
is produced by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman, and Michelle Free.
Special thanks to Bill John Dex, Jessica Dennis and Kevin
Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Albridge intro Spaceboy.

(02:03:42):
Aide to Black is produced by kjc R for the
Game Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted twenty
twenty four by Fade to Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc.
It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or used anywhere in
the known universe without written permission for Made the Black
or the Game Changer Network. I'm your host, Jimmy Church.

(02:04:04):
Go back, Lee, Tappy m