FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Isaac Arthur

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
This hope radio for the masses headlined the Bust July
Weight nineteen forty seven. The YadA Airport person outstart applying.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
This has been found and there's now in the possession
of the YadA with.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
The game is really changed, the game Game Changer. I
occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would vanish
if we were facing an alien thread from outside this work.
This is Day to Black host Jimmy Church on the

(01:02):
Game Changer Radio Network.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
All Right, good evening, Fade to Black. How you doing today?
Is Wednesday, October twenty ninth, twenty twenty five. I am
your host, Jimmy Church. All Right, I feel like I'm shouting.
I'm excited. It's a very important day. Let's do this
Mayana all right, So tonight on the show, it's a

(01:32):
three I Atlas evening. And I say that because this
is October twenty ninth. The anticipation is building. Three I Atlas,
the third known interstellar object to enter our solar system
is about to pop out from behind the Sun. And

(01:53):
how that is happening and everything else and what it
is it's all about to be revealed. There is a
lot of eyes focused on this right now a lot
of very smart people. But the rest of the world
is watching too. We have astronomers, we have sensors, we

(02:14):
have equipment, physicists. Everybody is looking at this object. And
the question is, of course, is it a comment? Is
it natural? Or is it not natural? Is it et?
Is it a UFO. I am going to start off

(02:36):
this evening by just saying this. I believe it's ET.
I do with everything that and I'll show you what
I have collected, But with everything that I have read
and everything else, and the lack of details coming from
sources such as NASA and ESA and even the James Web,

(02:57):
the lack of information is just as daunting to me
about this. So we do have two comments right now.
We have Swan and we have Lemon right out the
same time. And those are comments. You can see them.
You can go outside right now and look up and

(03:19):
see them. And those look like comments. Three I at
lists does not. So let me lay out the show tonight.
All right. I want to take your questions and I
want to make this interactive with everybody, so you know
what to do. Post your questions in the chat in

(03:39):
all caps. I'm scrolling through. Okay, put it in all caps.
If you comment in all caps, then you're gonna throw
me off. Don't please, don't throw me off. Later on
in the show, in about fifteen or twenty minutes, we're
gonna have physicist Isaac Arthur joining us. Of course, he

(04:06):
not only hosts one of the most brilliant shows on
all of the Internet, Futurism with Future Science Futurism with
Isaac Arthur, but he knows what he's talking about, and
he also puts his knowledge of science into the creation

(04:27):
of some pretty incredible science fiction too as well. And
he's a consultant on a lot of that stuff. So
he's brilliant. He comes to us out of Ohio. He's
been on this show many, many, many times. And I
will say this about Isaac. When I first stumbled upon Isaac,
when he had just started his YouTube channel and putting

(04:47):
together these concepts of not only the Drake equation and
the Fermi paradox, but contact and how it would happen,
and what an advanced extraterrestrial species would be doing and
where they would be in technology. His work and his
focus on this is unparalleled. He is absolutely amazing. But

(05:08):
I stumbled upon him and his channel had just started,
but I'm watching his information. I went this, this is
my guy. This is the open mind and science that
we need with these subjects, you know, time travel and
faster than light and ships and interstellar craft. Just incredible.

(05:31):
So I reached out to Isaac and in the very
very beginning, and we've just we're fans of each other's work,
and he's been on here many times. There was a
recent interview that Isaac had done and somebody sent me
the comment and I had called Isaac right after that

(05:53):
and said, dude. He goes, yeah, man, yeah, I said it,
but he said in this interview, he said, well, I
forget what the question was, but you know the media
and what's out there, and what do you look at?
He goes, man, Jimmy Church fade to black. Not only
do I like his stuff, but I really enjoy going

(06:14):
on his show, so and that meant a lot to me.
So anyway, Isaac Arthur is going to be here in
about twenty minutes, and in the meantime post your questions
in the chat. I have the chat live up here,
and we're going to go through some of the data
that I have collected and what we can expect over

(06:34):
the next twelve hours or so, I will show you
where three I at Lis is currently. Okay, So with
that I do I do believe it's et all right
now some of the questions that are out there, Mitchell

(06:56):
Okaku did say specifically, if this thing does anything, if
it changes speed, if it changes direction immediately, it is
not natural. That is et and that is under intelligent control.
So that's what everybody is looking at and also capturing

(07:17):
more images. The images that we currently have from behind
the Sun are from Mars and the Mars orbiter because
that's on the other side of the Sun, and three
I Atlas pasted Mars while going behind the Sun, and
that's why we were able to grab those. I've got
those images too as well. Now, a couple of comments

(07:40):
that I have to make out of the gate. I
want everybody to understand a few things. Three iat lists
was discovered and first seen around July first, as it
popped up from behind Jupiter. Okay, we now know that,
but what you probably don't know is where does the

(08:00):
name three I Atlas come from? Now? This is this
is very interesting to me, and I bring this up
because of a couple of reasons. But three I is
the third interstellar object. Okay, we have oh mouha Moa

(08:21):
and two I Borisovs. So oh Moama is one I
oh Mohama, two I Borisov and now three I Atlas.
Now where does the atlas come from? This is very interesting.
So for all of you listening that probably don't know this,
you're gonna hear it here for the first time. You're

(08:42):
gonna go what. It was discovered by the asteroid terrestrial
Impact Last Alert system. Let me say that again, the
Atlas Terrestrial Impact Last alert systems discovered it. The asteroid

(09:04):
Terrestrial Impact Last Alert system. That's where the name three
I Atlas comes from. There has been some comments lately,
and I've always found this really interesting that our impact
alert system has been activated and we now need to

(09:24):
be aware of this because of three I at Lias.
And yeah, that is that is true. That is true.
And now you know where three I at Lists the
name comes from. It's a very fascinating aspect to this
entire thing, that this was from an alert system for
impacts on planet Earth. Now, another thing that I do

(09:48):
want to say, which I find very interesting, is the
movie Don't Look Up and if you haven't seen it,
I talk about it a lot. It's an amazing movie,
fantastic movie, well written, very f very serious, crazy ending
for sure. But the images and some of the stuff
that I'm about to show you tonight are directly related

(10:14):
to don't look Up, and to think that don't Look
Up was made a couple of years ago, and then
we are going through this exact situation right now. It's fascinating,
absolutely fascinating how science fiction like that can dictate the future.

(10:34):
But that's where we are at, and how that comment
and don't look up was detected and everything else it
falls right into play with what we are going through
this evening on October twenty ninth. So let's do a
couple of things really quick now that I've got that set.
I do want to say to everybody, if you want

(10:57):
to get involved with the show tonight, you can ask
questions directly to myself or Isaac Arthur when he comes
on about three I at lists put your comments in
the chat in all caps so then I can go
over here and highlight because just like any other show,

(11:18):
when I do this live, the comments is always very
very very busy, and there's a lot of people here,
and the ability to post is there, but I can't
scroll through thousands of posts in the comments. So the
only way for me to catch up to everything. And

(11:40):
I do want to get your questions in. Put it
in all caps so I can see them, and I'm
reading through them now. I'm just highlighting them. A lot
of questions already. Okay, so all right, are we set?
Are we ready to go? Let's let's actually start with this.

(12:04):
This is the first day that the comment was seen.
Comment object. I just said, comment object. And this is
on July first, and this is as it popped up
behind Jupiter. Now also, oh, I do want to say this.

(12:26):
Let me I'm gonna pull this down. This is how
important this show is. Yep, yep, fresh fade to black
coffee being poured in the studio and I was so
backed up before the show was being made and I

(12:47):
had to rush into the studio, sit down and start
the show tonight. So now I've got my coffee. Yep.
Nothing like a French press. Back to this. Okay, So
this is July first, and I just mentioned don't look up.
This is straight out don't look up. It is just
absolutely crazy. But there it is. And even here in

(13:12):
this image, we have to remember in this this is actual,
This is a gift. This is a footage. Two hundred
and fifty thousand miles per hour, all right, so it
is ripping. It's two hundred fifty thousand miles per hour.

(13:33):
And a couple of comments that I want to make
on that number, two hundred fifty thousand miles per hour,
and they're saying that it's possibly six to seven billion
years old, older than our star system, older than half
of the age of the universe. Right, that it's seven
billion years old. And we're always talking about propulsion systems
for spacecraft to go through space and achieve these speeds

(13:58):
and how do we do that and so forth. Well,
here is an object that is seven billion years old
that is still traveling at two hundred and fifty thousand
miles per hour. The comments from science, there's the vacuum

(14:20):
of space. Boom, you'll never slow down, there's no friction.
And once you achieve the velocity that you know, I
guess you just turn your engines off and you hit
that speed. You know, talking about fuel and how to well,
here we have you know that we would have to

(14:41):
do this and do this one. Here is an object
that's traveling at two hundred and fifty thousand miles per
hour for the last six billion years. I'm confused with that.
I'm just confused with the thought. So two hundred and
fifty thousand miles per hour, what is what is doing this?

(15:01):
We as we navigate through space, we use planets, which
comes back to three I Atlas for gravitational assists, to
speed up, to slow down, to change directions, right sling
shot off of these planets. Has this object been doing that? Well,

(15:22):
if it's natural, no, it would have done that by accident.
That's why science is saying. Emichio Kaku brings up this
very important point that this object is zipping past our
sun right now as I speak to you, and if
it does change direction and speed up or slow down, right,

(15:46):
then that's what something intelligent would do. So all eyes
are focused on this right now. It's two hundred and
fifty thousand miles per hour. What if the opposite happens, right?
What if it slows down? What if it hits the brakes?
What if it stops here? It could that would be fascinating.

(16:07):
What if it speeds up and changes direction just like
oh muhamoua did Alvi Lobe has stressed that and wrote
a book about oh Muhamua and it being extraterrestrial. That
is the name of his book, et And it did
change directions, and it did speed up, and that wasn't

(16:30):
enough to convince the scientific community out there, the astronomers,
the astroom, theoretical physicist that this was an extraterrestrial, non
natural object. I think that the book leads out a
pretty strong case for that. But suddenly with three I atlas,
that is the focus. So we're going to be looking

(16:54):
at that. And I've been checking the news and checking
for updates all the way to the start of the
show tonight and haven't gotten any updates. And again the silence,
all right, I just.

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Yeah, yeah, all right.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
Now let's go to this next image, and the green
line here is this is a brilliant animation. By the way,
the green line is three I atlas, and you can
see it as it passes our sun. Now you can
see where Earth is. Now see as Earth is passing

(17:36):
behind the sun, here comes three eye atlas. Now Earth
is behind the sun. This is where we are right now,
right there, Okay, And so it was behind the Sun
when we were on the other side of the Sun.
So that's where we are right now, and that is
the plan trajectory as it exits our solar system. This

(18:00):
is brilliant, isn't it. Just watch us see Mars. There's
Mars poop and that's when all of those images were
brought in from the Mars orbiter. Okay, so you can
see where Earth is. This is very important. Now let's
watch this next fly by here as the animation circulates. Okay,

(18:20):
Mars is the red ring and you can see it
right there. Mars crosses in front of its path, by
the way, and man, that was close, right, and you
can see where Earth is. And we're gonna have over
the next month or so, we're gonna have some brilliant
images and data come in because Earth will beg on

(18:43):
the other side of the Sun, the same side of
the Sun as Atlas is. But wow, that was really
close to Mars, wasn't it. And there you go. Now
you can see where Earth is and where Atlas is,
and these types of day sets that I just showed
you right now hasn't been out enough into the media

(19:06):
and into social media for the rest of the world
to see so we can fully understand what we are
about to encounter, what we are about to experience. It's
very strange to me because when I look at this
and I look at this animation, I'm fascinated with it,
and it's exactly the information that where is it, what's
going on? Why is it on the other why do

(19:27):
we have to wait for it? Well, that right there
clearly illustrates what is going on and what is to
be expected over the next thirty days. It's very very
very very important. Well, I just showed it to you
if you haven't seen this for the first time, so
let's take one more look at this. The red ring

(19:49):
is Mars. You can see Mars coming across the path
of three I Atlas right here. That's when all of
those great images were captured. You can see where Earth
is on the back side of the sun, and then
three Eye Atlas pops out. Earth is gonna pop out,
and we're gonna be facing each other here very very soon,
very very exciting times right now, very exciting times. All right,

(20:13):
let's uh, let's before I bring in Isaac, let's let's
go to some questions here. First, one up, what is
your number one reason it's e t the number one reason.
There is nothing to me, to my eyeballs, that illustrates.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
A comet.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
It's way outside of everything. Of course, the speed is
something that I'm very impressed with. All the other sub
data sets in it. It's illuminated, it's self illuminated. That's interesting.
It's illuminated from the front, that's interesting. The tail facing

(21:01):
the wrong direction, that is also interesting. Some of the
rough data coming out that it's entirely of nickel, lack
of iron. The CO two oxygen mix is bizarre. I've
got a chart for that that I'm going to bring
up here in a minute so you can understand some
more about that. But there is nothing to me that

(21:23):
says comment. And that's it. There is. There is nothing
definitive that has been presented to science or from science.
Isaac Arthur is here, Hello Isaac. I'll bring Isaac in
in a second. There's nothing that if it's a comment.
Now here's the brilliant thing about Isaac. I don't know

(21:44):
what Isaac's opinion is. I don't Maybe he thinks it's
a comment, maybe he doesn't. Isaac and I have had
some pretty spirited discussions over the years if we have
been visited or from ET. Even though that's what he
writes about. He's got the best presentation, he's got the

(22:07):
best videos and applies to science about ET visitation. But
he's like, Nah, that hasn't happened yet. And I don't
know if I've convinced Isaac over the years that the
possibility is here and I have seen strange stuff. But
what does he think about three I Atlas? I just

(22:31):
I feel that it's ET. Okay, hold on, let's see
what this is. This is the info surrounding this event
is like static. How do we sort the truth out
from the garbage? That's exactly the most difficult thing here.
When anything is silent, all right, When it's like that,

(22:52):
people are going to fill in the blanks. They're going
to fill in their own blanks. There are a lot
of celebrities are sports stars or or you know, these
people that we know, these personalities, and when they don't talk,
when they live a private life, then we turn around
and fill in the blanks. Oh, this person is up

(23:15):
about this. This We fill in the blanks, and that's
what happens, and so then we have a false image
built up on somebody or something because we don't have
the information about it, and we fill in the blanks
and we develop our own dogma, right, we feel our
own thing. And that's that's what's happening around three i

(23:36):
AT lists.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
All right.

Speaker 1 (23:37):
There's been some pretty fascinating images that have been posted.
There's been a lot of theories about three i AT
lists that have been posted, and how much of it
is fact. Well, we're not getting unless you have a
satellite of your own with a telescope on it and
imaging and spectrometers and everything else to collect your own data.

(24:02):
The data that you're getting are from people that don't
have that information either, all right, And it's okay to
make stuff up or theorize or think about this because
I have, I've developed I think it's et I do.
Is it an interstellar probe? Is it scientific equipment? Is

(24:24):
there something alive on it?

Speaker 2 (24:26):
Is there?

Speaker 1 (24:27):
Is it control by AI? Are there AI androids? I
don't know. I don't know any of those things. But
I just don't think it's natural. That's my take, all right, Isaac,
are you ready? Give me the nod? Are you ready?
Are you ready? Isaac Arthur is here? Everybody, Isaac, say hello?

Speaker 2 (24:44):
To the world going to be big on Jimmy.

Speaker 1 (24:47):
Hello, buddy, you're the absolute, very best man, and thank
you for taking the time tonight, and I'm gonna do
a quick adjustment. We didn't do a sound check or
anything with Isaac tonight. I just told him to roll
in and be ready. And I think I've got you
dialed in good enough for now. Isaac. How are you?

Speaker 2 (25:08):
I'm doing great? How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (25:09):
I'm fantastic. It's October twenty ninth. We've been waiting for
this day, and have you have you? I haven't checked.
I should have gone, and I want to throw myself
under the bus. Have you done any presentations on three?

Speaker 2 (25:25):
I Atlas just the one they evoke his news while
I was on a vacation, So I ended up writing
a script while I was on vacation. And then I
at least it's, oh, we mid September. So it was
one of those ones where I feel like I'm more
for more one because I don't eave you news as
much hobbies Witch like March, because there's gonna be new

(25:46):
data coming into at least then, and it's really important.
But we gave an initial treatment, looked some of the
options for it.

Speaker 1 (25:52):
Okay, so let me ask you out of the gate,
just out of the gate, where are you leaning on this?
Natural or unnatural? There's no gray area. Don't give me
to Isaac Arthur, don't dance.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's not a comet.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
But see, I just told you, I just told you,
don't go. I just said, don't do that.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
My wife hasn't choked that. I answered. Everything is. It depends,
And we don't have enough data to say that it
isn't anything just yet. But we can't say it's not
a comet because comments all things go through own solar
system over and over at bait. They just certainly kind
of profile to them because they're getting warmed up in
thought and warmed up in thought and basically getting freeze
dried over the course of miniuni rotations. So they don't

(26:36):
look the same as this is doing. And that's kind
of the biggest difference there is we don't have a
lot of examples of interstellar spaceships, we have a lot
of examples of interstellar rogue objects, and we don't have
a lot of examples of comments that might travel for
a solar system. So try to say what this is
typical of is kind of tricky this point. We don't
have maximum data yet, we do finally have pure helium

(26:58):
coming up or just pass and uh, you know it's
it's one of those ones where you can say it's
an alien ship, but then you say, is it is
it a probe? Is the Collie ship is an invasion
for us? Is it a big hey look at us
so you can spot us? Or is it just kind
of passing through like Obama from Rondi Rama and each
of us looks different.

Speaker 1 (27:19):
Right right? I keep bringing up Rendezvous with Rama.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
Uh.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
The the parallels between that, that series of books and
what we're going through right now extraordinary. Also the Arthur
see Clark has had a crystal ball, he had a
he had a real way of doing this. But then
like the movie Don't look up again, there's a lot
of crazy parallels. And that was made three years ago,

(27:45):
and and here we are dealing with this now. Okay,
So let me ask you a couple of specific questions. Uh,
you don't think it's a common all right for.

Speaker 2 (27:54):
Some this point either? So okay, because it's kind of
a classification if it's comments on in system.

Speaker 1 (28:01):
I was wondering when EANs were going to jump to
our side of the fence. Yeah, yeah, I knew it
was coming. I know it was coming. Do you remember, uh,
maybe five years ago or so, you were on the
show and one night you and I had a brilliant
back and forth about UFOs and if we've been visited here,

(28:22):
and uh, kind of a classic show. It was pretty interesting.
You did not bend and and I like that when you,
I often say you're never going to reason somebody out
of their belief system or what they have learned. You're
just not going to do that.

Speaker 2 (28:40):
And I could not nationalize what we bought.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Right right right but now. And I had Lawrence Krauss
on the show last week or the week before, and
you know, there's lots of life out there, but we've
never been visited anybody that says that they've seen something
lying And well.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
I feel like it's a long, long perspective. Either the
life isn't out the anywhere near us, or of course
it's visiting us. People visit Kansas. Well, and if it's you,
it visits. If it's that's my tosume it's not anywhere nearby.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
And see, you have an open mind about this where
you allow yourself to consider the possibilities and the probabilities
of this. So much of the scientific community, at least
publicly facing, is not. And but you're also dated driven.

(29:41):
I say you, they're educated. I don't have the PhD.
You know, I don't have that.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
I would say a lot of scientists tend to assume
there are aliens that they tend to be in the
same camp Lawrence is in there where they just tend
to assume that it doesn't talk to us for some reason.
I that's a perfectly legitimate perspective to take, But I
think that it kind of comes down to if you're
working out of these you come from a certain perspective
on what does the US look like, and you kind

(30:06):
of rationalize how the various pits and pieces fit to
make your viewpoint. I grew up on Star Trek, so
I was kind of start off the assumption that there
was aliens all over the place, And I said, well,
why don't they have a Starbucks here? And even they're visiting,
they're not visiting a very let's come down, shake hands
the un kind of way. And so you got to say,
based on the available data, what does this tell us?

(30:26):
And the answer is nothing. It doesn't actually tell us
none of the positions on the free paradox or aliens
are locked in. There's not enough data to be able
to say one way or another. But from a logical perspective,
it's kind of like with this with the what we'll
call it a conifer now, but with Atlas, right, if
it's passing through here and it's a probe, it's a
horrible probe because they said, well, it's going to pass

(30:48):
by the mall, it's going to pass by v it's
going to pass by Jupiter. It's not passing within ten
million miles of any of those. And you want to
pass by things like that.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
But now now you're contradicting your own stuff by saying that, Okay, well,
I'm going to tell you how you're doing it.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Please you.

Speaker 1 (31:10):
Constantly, and you do this in such a brilliant way
that an advanced civilization would be beyond our comprehension, would
beyond our ability to understand or to know. And the
way that you have presented that so and it's always

(31:30):
captured my attention, and I think that really needs to
be said more so by that by your own statements
and the way that you presented stuff over the years.
Why should we expect their data collection and ability to
do stuff a way that we would understand. Maybe they

(31:50):
have the ability to study everything as they pass by it,
no matter what the distance is. But they've got other
star systems to go and visit. They need to do
this as quick as possible.

Speaker 2 (32:03):
And so there is You're absolutely right that we can't
assume we could know how to go to behave. But
if the own of USh, you get the other star systems,
at least one of those plants they should go by
to speed up out, they free speed bump off.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
It, and what did they do and what did they
What if that happens though, what if it pups the
brakes after a perihelion It.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
Absolutely pumps the brakes, Yeah, then then it's alien ship
for sure. There might be some scenarios where it wouldn't be.
But uh and again you know it's like, well, okay,
what's the options at that point? It's not an alien ship,
it's a spacecraft for the future that we do a
tie portal, same different, small perspective, the right if it
pumps the brakes in a very obvious way, Intelligent objects

(32:43):
built by artificial objects look arificial unless you're trying to
make them not look artificial and it's entirely visible, to say, well,
let's make this thing look like a comet or an
asteroid or where it is so people don't know what
it looks like. But then why beca it's so big
for a probe. That's a huge probe.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
Again, you're contradicting yourself. Don't be a walking hipocritical paradox.
You can't do that, because that's exactly that's exactly the
things that we need to consider here. You know, we
can't put it in.

Speaker 2 (33:18):
Though we had to say, if it's gonna be X
and y, we get some new piece of data, what
would that tend to tell us, and if it pumps
the brakes, Yeah, it's artificial unless there's something really obvious,
like half the things splowed down because you know, we
hit some other asteroid. And then yes, you said, well, okay,
that was a collision that probably wasn't their plan method
of breaking. But yeah, it could could be an alien

(33:38):
ship in the sense of it's a probe. It's cautioub
I don't disagree that's possible, but I think we have
to say just from a raising perspective, we can all
turn it on to be completely bomb. You have to
say based on what we know. You know, I don't
know what aliens look like, but I think I know
what their hammers look like, or what their screwdrivers look like.
They probably look like ours. They probably function the same way,
do they for sure? No, But if we don't, at

(34:00):
least put a few things down to say, well, because
it's not even all we get the best data, we
get the right answer. We want to think about these
topics since we have to pursue in a reasonably logical way.
We know we're going to be vited about some things,
but we're gonna be vite about something too, and more importantly,
at least he keeps occupied. We don't want to go
on this.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
That's not such a good that's such a good point.
So let me ask you this. The speed of this
object is clocking in a pretty blistering from our perspective,
two hundred and fifty thousand miles per hour, six billion
years old. All right. If even that is arbitrary, that's again,

(34:40):
it's everything's just a guess here. But two hundred and
fifty thousand miles per hour without a propulsion system. How
does it maintain that speed over six billion years?

Speaker 2 (34:53):
Well, that that postion only the problem. It's not really
as fast. That sounds like that is still only about
one thousandth of speed of luck it it is.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
But but the question is this question is a simple
one because I'm a simple mind. Okay, why do we
need fuel on an interstellar ship? If all we have
to do is kick start it to two hundred and
fifty thousand miles per hour, then we don't need fuel
after that. Are we going to cruise on that interstellar
ship for the next six billion years at two hundred

(35:23):
and fifty thousand miles per hour? Or does it slow down?

Speaker 2 (35:27):
If it slows down, it needs more fuel. So in
space buy and lulge. And there are a few exceptions.
You only use speed when you're trying. You only use
fuel up when you're trying to speed up, slow down,
or engage in a maneuver. And if you're doing that
as fast as I think as moving, it should be
wanting to move towards cheaper right now, or towards one
of the other densal plants to do a speed boost on.

(35:48):
And that's all about how close you can get to it.
But if they've had I mean, I don't know where
the adjustment's coming from on that one, But six million
years at that speed gets you anywhere outside the galaxy,
and honestly it could get you. It wouldn't get you
outside the galaxy unfortuit except beneath the escape velocity of
the galaxy. But unless you've gotten to anywhere in Syle galaxy,
including the matchlinic clouds, I think so it's if it's

(36:10):
been around that long, but more likely to just be
a fragment of some leftover broken plan or things like that.
Isn't drifting that long. I don't know they would have
to have been drifting that long even is that?

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Or though.

Speaker 2 (36:22):
Trying to actually determine where it's from, it's gonna be
a long calculatory process of being very accurate vectors and
trying to back calculate what was where they could have
passed by, but where would originate from? Is not necessarily
the last dollar system pass.

Speaker 1 (36:35):
Yeah, that's that's true. That's true. That's true. And so
if we look at it like that is trajectory and
we backtrack, Apparently it originated in Sagittarius, where the Wow signal,
which you know about that's in your homestate right where
the WOW signal originated from. Now, is that another coincidence

(37:00):
that we put on top of this or is there
something more of substance.

Speaker 2 (37:05):
In this case? It could be because if Mary serves
it was, it was several degrees off from the actual
WOW signal angle, which again we don't know what it's
going to originate from. So a signal movie at light
speed is not going to come from the same angle
as a ship that left from there, for instance. But
nine percent, if I remember writing, and don't quote me
on that was it's probably a bit big for that.

(37:25):
But more importantly, Samas Starius is where the center of
the galaxy is at. That's the direction to go to
the center, and there's a lot of stuff there. There's
also a lot of stuff that moves out very quickly
from there because that's scill o star collapses and ejection
events where you have even whole black holes get ejected
at I want to see about double the speed that's
movie adds like the top line, but we do get
things to get knocked out of the galaxy at very

(37:47):
high speed, and you won't find anything inside the galaxy
that's not moving on a glad to grim trajectory going
less than five hundred kilometers per second, which I can't
givete that to miles with prior I had. Let's say
that be about point two pes of light speed, little
point two of light speed, so hay faster when this
thing's going, well, maybe half again, but in that same kind,

(38:10):
it's very quick if that's miles per second mile. But
don't quote me any of those figures because I don't
have a calculating.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
You know what it's coming from you, So it's it's good,
it's good. We're not going to question that. Let me
pull this up. This is a chart of all of
the makeup of CO two to oxygen mixture in every
known comment that we have measured.

Speaker 2 (38:39):
Okay, and we have to see two to the water
wattle composition right.

Speaker 1 (38:43):
Right right now, long period comments or the circles, the
Jupiter family comments or the squares main belt comments are
the triangles that you see there. Now check out where
three I at list sits it is a complete anomaly.
Does it match up with any comment that we have

(39:05):
ever measured?

Speaker 2 (39:06):
Well, it's got two sixteen R two up there, which
I have to mean I'm not familiar with.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
But no, that's and that's that's the only other comment.
And that's also an anomaly that fell outside of this
CO two oxygen ratio.

Speaker 2 (39:21):
So and again a non export on asteroids. I don't
put in comments. Ont we put that up front here?
Someone like come on, they say that's completely wrong, but
as example of how you can nonominlyate that off of
something natural, specifically natural if this is not a combat
because it came into another solar system, comets have gotten
baked over and over again, so a lot of things
will have come off them already. They have aside, there's
already been baked out. They won't emit the same ratios

(39:44):
of certain elements because water and carbon dioxide do not
supplement the same temperatures. Uh so one that's gonna baked
more will have a lower ratio one of those. The other.
First something they've just been drifting through space where water
is probably the most common molecule that isn't only in
the universe, waters all over the place. So we're going
to have a very high amount of those. Although I'm

(40:06):
not sure how to read that, Charlot. If I was
squinting to see it, I am afraid, but it would
look like it has a lot more carbon dioxide to
water ratio, and that would be my first guest would
be that's because it's never been baked much before. So
the CO two, which comes off more readily, is now
coming out for the first time. But that's one of
those questions where are great assault on that We don't

(40:28):
know enough. We need to have a probe out to
it or something like that, but it would be very
hard to actually get approach to it right now based
on how fast it's going and the time period we have.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yeah, we have we have two probes that are en route,
one going to I think it's Sense of the Latest
and the other one is going to another moon two
and that will fall into the path and they only
need to be they only have two weeks to do
it to adjust the course, but they can actually get

(40:58):
pretty close, you know, reason closed. But we do have
this one opportunity, UH with these two probes, and I
think that the mission UH directors on both of those
are absolutely considering a course alteration. You know, one is
going to Saturn, one's going to Jupiter. Two different courses,

(41:21):
two different missions. They happen to be in the same
spot at the same time, going into opposite directions, right,
but they're right there and they can alter the course
just enough to get in uh to the tail section
of three I atlas. So we'll see if that actually happens. Now,
let me let me pull this up. This is uh.

(41:45):
I've got some pretty cool images here. Now, this is
This is from your favorite This is from the James
web Space telescope. And this was taken on August sixth Okay,
and again it just the issues that I have with this,
which everybody else does too. This is self illuminated and

(42:09):
doesn't have a tail. That's the crazy What do you
make of this self illumination? Part of what everybody else
has seen and detected that it's illuminated from the front,
by the way, and from the center when it popped
out behind Jupiter. It wasn't reflecting sunlight at that point.

(42:29):
The only reason why we saw it is because it
was lit up on its own.

Speaker 2 (42:33):
What do you make of that? That could be the
angle of the tail, I would say for self illumination.
If we assuming its reflecting sunlight, it's the source of that.
Then trying to figure out, well, what's the composition off,
the tail, off, the halo off the actual object itself,
and that's way and get more data. If we actually
seeing it's making its own light, then that's an artificial object, period.

(42:55):
And so I'm assuming we're going to get reasonally decent
proof that that is is not actually creating its own light.
But if it is, then again that would be another
one of those ones where we say, well, obviously there
could always be another natural explanation we missed, But if
it was creating its own light, it was into the
highly probable to be artificial category, And so that would

(43:16):
be another of those falsephiable examples. At that point, if
it's just a matter of well, we are you've seen
this kind of dust tail, this type of halo off
of the object, because it's not actually a comet, it's
a by this communicant thought out for the first time,
then that's one of those things where we let a
lot too, but we still don't know what.

Speaker 1 (43:35):
Do you let me let me pull this down? This
is a great question, and I think that a lot
of people are saying this right now. I think it
could be a messenger angel. What do you think about that?
And in the year's past and the reason why this
is an interesting question for you, Isaac in the year's past.

(43:58):
That's exactly the message, right, ancient civilization see something like this,
they're gonna jump to that. And if it turns out
to be artificial and it's et and they just do
a drive by, is that a message just saying hey,
we're here, it could be.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
I mean, I obviously I can't comment on theologically if
it is an angel, not I it's angel. It is
either making yourself known or not. That's supernatural at that point,
so we can't study with physics. If it's aliens just
going by to say, do you see us? I feel
like that's possible, But isn't there an easier way to
do that? Couldn't they just you know, as an example,
it Commets Tale makes an amazingly good projector tale to

(44:39):
you might put a screen on. They could be putting
up a gigantic message of like here's a circle with
a radial image in it, or here's a bunch of
squaos and triangles. And I don't care how skeptical you are.
If you see a gigantic picture of triangles, squaos and
circles in the Comets Tale, you are assuming that that
thing is artificial or you're mad, So that would be

(45:00):
obvious proof at that point in time was artificial. If
they're trying to give us an intentional hey here where
you know this is us, I don't think it's a
very good one because it leaves way too much ambiguity. Plus,
we could only see it right now, we would have
missed this thing. I well, I don't we know that,
we'd have missed it completely. We certainly not have seen

(45:20):
anything particularly novelist about it until relatively recently, or at
least we want a going to confirm that last decade
or two to really be able to spot and say, hey,
that's and we see anomalies in the past too, but
we just tend to assume, oh, that's normal. We keep
finding orbits of astronomy where decades after you know it
was cataloged, someone says, you know that anomally just kind
of wrote off as noise turns out to disconnect some

(45:42):
phenomena we've now found is out there. So I don't
think it's a very good way to have signaled to
us that this was artificial or hello not when there's
so many other options available to them. And again they
they also don't see me bringing correctly to try to
you know, maneuver around in the Solar System to slow
down or anything like that. So I'd have to ask
what's their motive, what's the objective?

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Well, okay, okay, for sure, but one of I'm going
to bring up a point that you have made many
many times, and you do it so well that if
an advanced civilization out there, you know, crosses that singularity
of expansion and and then suddenly you can go from

(46:26):
visiting a nearby planet to taking over that star system
to taking over the galaxy in a very very very
short period of time, you just flip flop right and
take and that we haven't seen any evidence of that
in our Milky Way. That theoretically, our Milky Way should
have been taken over by an advance civilization by now

(46:47):
and we and there was here, yes, yeah, right right right,
So but based on that shouldn't why would we be
surprised about space debris or probes a von Neuman situation
and then finally one entered our star system. Why would

(47:08):
that surprise anybody? The possibility of that kind of life
out there. Eventually, randomly, something's going to come by could
this be it? And why would that be such a
surprising thing to happen?

Speaker 2 (47:22):
It wouldn't mean of itself, It just doesn't really hit
the characteristics. Like if I was to be told this
is definitely artificial, what is it, I'd say, Well, it's
left over some you know, zetocidal war from thousands of
years ago, because it would look better as a wrecked
piece of material as it were floating around through a
star sism and you'd have that, you'd have left over
things from previous civilizations. Some would float out of the

(47:43):
galaxy at they move fast enough, Some get bound to
a star, and some would just float through the galaxy.
I think I did an episode called ghostar Models on
that idea. But you know, it is the idea that
this is a very large object to get for a probe,
and if it is them out the initial expansion wave
of a colony ship, really weird coincidence funds to encounter
it just now when we can see it as opposed

(48:06):
to you know, a century from now, where we could
have gone actually you know, touched it, looked at it,
seen it up close. And if we keep getting these
things popping up and then this is an important thing
to remember. It's not really going away, it's chasing out
of you know whatever, killing meos per second. That is
something we can potentially catch up and we know what
its angles can be used. It's kind of visible. We
can get hands on this thing eventually. Same for a muamua,

(48:30):
any of these interstellar comments that come through or interstellar objects.
I don't really call them comments because they really or
not be able to get them. You know, if they
are natural objects or dear likso floating, we can send
a ship to them eventually, maybe a couple hundred years,
maybe one hundred years, maybe fifty, who knows. They can
go catch up to it. It can't run away for

(48:50):
everyone in space if it's a natural object. So we'll
be able to get a definitely answer on this one day.
It might be after you and I are both est,
but you know we will be able to follow this thing.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
What what about? And this is something else that you
you write about and have done presentations on what if
this thing drops something off? And we haven't we haven't
got really good images yet. Right, this is the very
large telescope, that's the VLT man. That's the best the

(49:26):
v l T could do.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
And I gotta that's nice.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
I gotta, I gotta tell you that we don't know anything.

Speaker 2 (49:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
That's that's the v l T. That is the that
is called uh uh what The image from the b
l T is called detailed image of three I atlas. Okay,
so we don't know the shape of this thing. We
don't we don't you know? Is there anything of that?

(49:55):
There's nothing here. There's nothing here. Isn't that crazy?

Speaker 2 (49:59):
It is? It's amazing, It's I would say it kind
of like archaeology. It's often impressive how much you can
detect from very little when you really get your stuff together.
And then way you'll find out later on. Although you
always need to keep us some humility on that too,
because sometimes when you have able to go off of
your say, well, then by logic it must be X.
And the big difference between philosophy and science is that

(50:21):
logic without evidence, that data can sometimes take you down
some bad pass. They can do that in science too,
it just tends to do a little bit less yet
real data. As an example, let's say that was a
big carrier. It's secure your probe ship and it's full
of probes and material to make more probes with as
it goes by. It's gonna it's not going by the
individual planets because it's gonna give them each other one probe,

(50:43):
and it's probosed the same size probes are there, you know,
meet our cross maybe a ton mm hmm.

Speaker 1 (50:47):
You ain't see that, not yet, not yet.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
We won't. We won't unless it goes into orbit of us,
which probably we get one too, but you know, if
it wants to drop them off so they can do
nice angles them off at a decent speed with some
fjord to slow down and make a rendezvous. And the
way we'll know about that is maybe one of our
probes will pick up around Jupi in another decade, so
we would never see probes coming after that. Well no,

(51:11):
I say, we never in a century might have an
system to be able to pick something that up. But
by now now the thing could be setting off all
sorts of waves of prose of its own for the
Solar system, and we never see it right now because
that's what we see. But you might pick something that
was bigger upcoming off. And this was the same case
for Mua Mua, which is much stronger if it had
popped up something that was using say a mag sale

(51:33):
that was going to push out with and that spreads
out and it starts, you know, getting glossed over by
the tail or just reflecting light. Then we might see
a tiny little dot on that image near it and say, well,
what it has that and said, I don't know. It's
be a fragment of a piece of that broke off,
or it could be an ejected ship, and then we
have some ways we could tell afterwards. But you know,
it's a very tiny window to be able to speak

(51:55):
about these things with the confidence, which again is I'd
really love to have the maximum data we can get
out this thing before we draw conclusions one way or another,
because it's a cool anopoly one way or another. Yeah,
artificial interstellar and I want to make sure that we
get the right conclusion of it because it could be
awesome whatever it is. And yeah, it could end up
being some giant alien museum and that would be awesome

(52:16):
to trail too. So, like I said, don't think of
this thing as leaving the Solar system there to be
seen again. And most we'll get to chase it down
a couple of centuries.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Now, let's say it's artificial. Well I believe that it is.
Let's say you say it's artificial, Okay, all right? Could
we or should we expect a message communication of some kind?
Would they have been studying us long enough to know

(52:46):
that we went through a TV carrier signal phase and
we went through a radio phase, and well we still
kind of have radio you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Is there conscious that the Yeah, because because they'd have
been coming into it, they they have encountered our signals.
They're moving slow enough by the way that they would
only have like there's not that much of time shortage
on them because we were in light speed. Yeah, they'd
gotten the radio signals, they would have been pretty far out,
but not being to detect them because again they would
have been I'm trying to remember the exact speed. Other

(53:17):
thing is, but they might have been a tenth of
a light year out where we, you know, win Malcone
started messing around, maybe twice that and that's not that far.
It's lots of aus, right, but that's still that's ten
times the furthest planet we got away from us, and
so they would have hurt all that radios they are
coming in and if they're conscious and they have power

(53:37):
supply to actually run detectors and things like that. It
had a lot of time to Lauren, especially because on
the front end of signals they are not very compressed.
You know, we learned to do good digital confession later on.
Digital confreession is like an IOEU note for you know, pattern,
So the more confression you had, the more you look
like random noise. Our early signals don't look like random noise.

(53:58):
Would have been very easy for them to figure out
a lot of stuff from that, and they'd certainly been
to detect where we were at and that our planet
was a source and all that stuff fairly quickly. So
if they want to send us a message, I'm not
quite sure why wait so long unless they were just
energy starved, because if they run on something like solo
they got say a few fission reactors and there or
something like that, they might be really short on power.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
But what about you know, when you drive by a
friend's house and you honk your horn, and you know
you're not necessarily throwing out a whole lot of data there,
but you're saying hello.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
You know, you'll let them know, hey, we're here. If
you want to talk to us. That that's we'd love
to hear from you. But I don't feel like they've
honked the horn. They haven't stepped on the brake, they
haven't honked on the horn that they really want to
talk to us. The thing is they know what our
technological level is right now that that's easy for them
to determine by having listened to a Signals last century
because we talked about it and you know it's on

(54:53):
the on the radio. So they've listened to all these
programs and they've got anything else the other than probably
they'd have tons of their own archives, you know, keep
track of I don't know what you do on a
ten thousand year space journey, but you could go through
an awful lot of classic films. Then it's by attend
as certain means you want to listen to whatever the
local feet is. As you're passed nostoism, aren't we.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
Okay? Now this is where I'm going to jump into
the head of Isaac Arthur. This is why I love
you so much and I do love you. Is we
are assuming that this thing has been doing two hundred
and fifty thousand miles per hour for six billion years
or whatever. A billionaires a million whatever that that's it.
But what if that's not the case.

Speaker 2 (55:33):
What if it just.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Exited, It came out of warp drive, It was traveling
at ninety nine percent of the speed of light. It
just pumped the brakes outside of our solar system and
a cruise by here two hundred fifty thousand miles per hour,
and it's about to jump into another piece of their
alien technology and maybe faster than light, and they're going

(55:55):
to go somewhere else. How do we know that that's
not the case.

Speaker 2 (55:59):
Let's see some the later books in the uh in
the rama series that he went with Lee Gentry.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
But okay, so it comes to Lee Gentry books weren't
as good as the first.

Speaker 2 (56:09):
No, no, but there's some fun stuff in them.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
Gently, I love him, you know, they brought him a
very smart guy. They brought in Gentry, is my opinion,
because Arthur couldn't write dialogue. Arthur couldn't have two people
having a normal conversation.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
So Gentry comes inc fi great.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
Yeah, right right. I thought Gentry just killed it. But
I enjoyed his stuff. And he's a brilliant much yeah,
very brilliant guy. Okay, So anyway, what was I just saying, oh,
is it possible that we're seeing it exit out of uh,
you know, some kind of warp uh situation and it's
slowing down and and we wouldn't know what to look for.

Speaker 2 (56:56):
If that's the case, that's the problem is we're not
seeing it come out of warp at all because we
didn't see it do it unfortunately, right, I would, I would.
I wouldnt sell my soul, but I'd certainly put a
balkaget see an actually amount of warp if it had
that ability. I would love to just even be able
to see the loose bits of light that were coming
around on the edge of that, because you could learn
so much or how they did it. Then. But if
we're assuming a fast night drive or even a sublight drive,

(57:19):
that doesn't violey causality, which is its own issue. But
just let you go really closest speed of light like
we see in Enros game series for instance by Austin
Scott Powered there they go just on the speed of
light and they could just crank that out and stop that.
Nothing in physics explicitly bans that. But usually when you
know to purage that much energy that fast, it has

(57:40):
to go in a couple of different ways, and the
usual is energy and light. So usually if you're selling
out an object that was well, let's see the small side.
This thing is three kilometers in diameter, so probably something
like twenty gigatons minimum mass. Slow that down with the
speed of light twenty catons ten thirteen seventeen ten to

(58:07):
thirty jewels of energy. If that was being released over
the course of even an hour, it would be as
brd as the sun was, although again that's Napkin math.
It might be that even ten hours for that, but
very bright. We'd have seen that if it was being
done quickly.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
But okay, so hypothetically speaking, would wouldn't et had the
technology not to do that, so you're not making yourself
visible to everybody else.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Sure, then is a neutrino flux if they had that technology,
which also be awesome, and if you do as do trinos,
we might have picked that up right, or we might
be able to look back and say, hey, look, that
was what that anomaly was, because we can detect neutrino's,
but we can think what out of a good jillion
of them, we can find that extra But you could
see something at that or maybe they don't do it
that way. Maybe they dump it grivitically. That's the nicest

(58:59):
way to share change speed without showing up. That's what
the Earth and the moon the sun do each other
all the time. You don't see a big light flash
every time the moon goes around the Earth because it's
to me it crivitically as supposed to photonically with light
and I actually not show if photonically is abroad. But whatever,
they could have that technology, yeah, but we don't have

(59:21):
the evidence that they do. That's the problem.

Speaker 1 (59:25):
When we find out, I know, I know, I know,
I know when we find out. Uh, and one day
we will, right, we'll be able to sit down and
talk to et and talk about these things. Uh, people
like you are just going to go Damn, I didn't
think of that. Well, of course you didn't. Oh yeah, absolutely,
you know, right right, Well, yeah, it seems so simple.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Now. Oh my wife was saying, I need to get
business cards. I finally did. I try to figure out
what the predominantly but professional seer. I'm right, fifty percent
of the time, I thought, well, I can't do that, because,
to be honest, that's probably called the.

Speaker 1 (59:59):
High that is the high side. That is the high
side for sure.

Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
That's the thinking about science. You're going to be wrong
a lot, and you know you take it with good
grace and you mustn't personalize it. And do you see
that with low folks and science as they that's my theory.
I don't want anyone to take it a poet and
but you know that's you're going to be wrong. That's
just the nature of it. Okay, I'm going to survive
long enough to be finding out all these things will

(01:00:24):
be like, hey, in episode two thirty five, you said
X and that was so wrong. I was like, yeah,
that's gonna happen.

Speaker 1 (01:00:31):
Let's look at this question from Terrence, and I think
everybody This illustrates a lot of people right now or
how they are thinking. Does anyone really think NASA and
the government don't know exactly what this is? So that
is a great point. And if they did know, would

(01:00:53):
they tell.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Us they were broadcasting signals? Trust the imagery the guinea
is completely consistent with what the actual equipment would produce,
So it's not they have a higher resolution version of
this thing that they're not showing us. Plus do you
know that to be true?

Speaker 1 (01:01:10):
Isaac, I'm not busting your chops, but let me do
you believe that to be true? Do you think that
that the imaging that they have revealed to us is
the best that there is.

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
For that telescope? Yeah, just because we have all that
other data for it. Plus we know it's actual optical
profile that's not secret that we it's maxed out. It's immense,
it's expensive, and that's how you're getting out of that now.
Could that would be a very sophisticated lie at that
point because it can't be done. Of course they could
be gasline, yes, and god knows what it's the government,

(01:01:44):
so let's not pretend I can even trusted that by far.
But at the same time, NASA leaks like a sieve.

Speaker 1 (01:01:51):
But they don't have employees left to leak.

Speaker 2 (01:01:54):
Well at the moment. Yeah, And I've never believed personally
that NASA would be that good keeping these things secret.
I could believe it from the Air Force. I could
believe it from the Army, although you know I was
Army of all the time. We leave, like I said too,
and then you have to all the other countries too
on that one. So if we're getting an actual signal
from it in the radio, I feel like, because you
could pick that up as an amateur astronomer too, I

(01:02:16):
feel like we know about that as the image itself,
I don't. I don't see that they'd be put up
with the expensive telescopes that had a lower resolution they
actually really had hiding that because these are not for
any good for spine on you know, China or rush
ning like that. These are good for taking looks at planets,
and that's all they're good for. And I don't see
a lot of motivation to screw with that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
I think there's could come up on the imaging side,
I agree with you, And the reason why is there's
too many amateur astronomers right now that are really really
good at at at imaging and detecting this stuff. So
they're not going to be able to you know, fake
their way or fudge their way through that picking up

(01:03:01):
an alien signal from them and lying about it and
not telling us the truth. I think that's a possibility for.

Speaker 2 (01:03:06):
Sure, Definitely a possibility. But if it was intentionally broadcasts
we heard by Earth right, if it's aliens who are
trying to chat with our government specifically, then they could
be using at you know, a type beam laser ray
that went to one specific dish that we don't.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
Know of that exactly exactly, and what what did that
happen last year? Okay, we're going to be there October
twenty ninth, all right, and just just get ready and
not tell you know that anything is possible, right, Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
I would say this if I was. I mean again,
if I was, the government was always goind a hall
of things I respecting about. But I feel like if
I was trying to prepare around that, I might have
had the web telescope array go down for a maintenance
or something. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:03:50):
Yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. Let
me let me pull this image up now again. This
is it was first detected on July first. This is
July twenty second, and July thirtieth, August twelfth, and August
twenty first. Okay, you can let me actually hold on.
I will clean this up right now, everybody, just relax.

(01:04:13):
Let's go with this. Is that clean it up a
little bit better? Okay, So July nineteenth, the twenty second,
the twenty fourth, the thirtieth, August twelfth, and August twenty first, again,
serious lack of tail and the brightest part of this

(01:04:34):
comment or I say comment object is from the front
and now this was taken from hold on, I'll tell
you exactly what imaging system was used. Just stay with
me on this. I've got too many large computer monitors

(01:04:58):
in front of me. Okay, this image is this one?

Speaker 2 (01:05:03):
This is.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
Oh I don't have I don't have the imaging system
in my notes with this particular image, sets of images.
I should say, obviously it's the same sensor system that
is doing the reading. But you can see three point
nine aus three point eight, right, you see that three

(01:05:30):
point six, three point one and finally two point nine,
But no tail. That's that's the thing. It just it
just looks like an object hauling balls.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Sure, it shouldn't have much of tail until it gets
to at least three AU from the sun. I don't
happen to know, by the way, if that's saying that's
the distance from the sun or not need that key unfortunately,
But if we're assuming, I don't know what the doubta
there is either it's so we've got R three point
six and delta two point eight au. I'm sorry, I
just don't know if they're actually trying to say distance wise,

(01:06:07):
but until something gets to about three AU out from
the sun, it's not gonna have too much tail. Now,
the flip side, that is, you could have a front
facing tail on these things. It's not an object moving
through an atmosphere, you know it. He'd be boiling off
on one side the sun very easily plushing you a
lot of optical illusions. But trying to look at the

(01:06:29):
thing too, So I can't say conclosely on that. But
then I'm just not expert enough on that AA astronomy
to be able to have a opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
So this next image, this is uh, this is from
the marsh Mars observer as it passes Mars.

Speaker 2 (01:06:52):
I think you just did as close as approached in it.

Speaker 1 (01:06:54):
Yepy, those paths crossed too. That was that was what
was that was close to an impact?

Speaker 2 (01:07:04):
I think it was still for Mars. I want to say,
it didn't get any closer than like thirty million miles.
I don't look that down.

Speaker 1 (01:07:09):
Okay, well here, but again the reason why I'm pulling
this up, and this is a high res image from
the Mars orbiter. No tail, no tail, there's there's nothing here.
And now let me get your comments on this. Okay,
So here we go. The red ring is Mars and

(01:07:33):
it's orbit and you see Atlas approaching. Now this is
the beginning of the loop. Now see where Mars is
coming around. I watch this. Yeah, it's pretty close and
you can see how Earth. Now, So for the next
thirty days or so, Earth and Atlas are going to
be on the same side of the Sun, and data

(01:07:54):
collection is going to be frantic. There's going to be
a lot of stuff collected. But yeah, as it crosses
Mars right here, now ten million miles or whatever that is.
That's one thing. But with the size of the universe,
that's really really close, isn't.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
Really well, just passing through the soulstem is really really close.

Speaker 1 (01:08:17):
And what are the odds of that that? That's what
the reason why I brought this image up. The universe
is ginormous, and what are they I mean, it seems
oddly specific to do a drive by through our star system.

(01:08:39):
The way that this is going down, that seems intelligent
to me.

Speaker 2 (01:08:45):
Well, there's there's two issues on that. For it to
be a natural object going through here kind of speaks
to either it being highly improble. It tells us how
how much these objects actually are in deep space, which
is very useful in itself, because at some point we
might want to be willing the deep space outposts between
star systems, and we not still what the kind of
count of such objects were. You can tell that by

(01:09:06):
how they passed through this area. Because the little three
au bubble that we all looking at right there, you'll
compare that to three start your light years star. You're
looking at a quadrullion four difference in volumes, but you
could have a quadrillion such objects. Space is huge, and
it's lost off in it. For an artificial object, you

(01:09:26):
would never, well nonsheroud say never, very rarely would you
pass from even to the other side of the galaxy
between two star systems, actually pass this close to another
star just by coincidence, right, It can happen. It may
be on a whole Galax squad trip with once or twice.
But of the thousands of stars you passed along the
way closely right where you're within less a light year
of them, very rarely would you be this close right

(01:09:50):
less than a light day, much less than a light
day light hour. However, an actual spaceship maybe this gust
speeds that would pass by almost all them that was
on the way, because it can use each one of
those pick up a little bit more speed. It's just
one of those you can do that trick, right, you
just have a solo sale. You're in forward, no fuel
just to sold those sale, right, but you're picking up

(01:10:12):
some sunlight you vaporizely or comma till off and whatever
icy body you turn into a spaceship. You can pick
up speed on each one of those ones where you're
going past that star, in which case, yeah, you got
a very good reason go through. The issue then is
why not get a little bit closer and here they
might just not want to lose that much their actual
fuel propellant or shielding. The closer you get to the sun,

(01:10:34):
the more you're going to evaporate off. And unless you're
gena is controlled burned behind you, which it isn't, you're
not gaining that fuel boost that you'd want to be getting.
So if it's close to the sun, it's you know,
as it passing by as a probe, is it trying
to gain some speed. It doesn't seem like it's trying
to gain speed. So that's not the way to pass through.
But that's normally why you would go through a star

(01:10:56):
system this close. Either you want to drop off some probes.
You own all the ones, right, I mean, this thing
is big enough that you wouldn't really expect it to
be a probe in of itself, but to be a
big carrier that had ten million probes that based on
the size difference there, it could just be dropping a
few office of passes by, and which cause there's no
reason to any closer it does right now, it's chosen

(01:11:16):
to get close enough that it can get solo power
from those probes and let them drop off. It's getting
closer just spelts off a lot of its frosty material.
But I could then argue it's still closer that it
really needs to be. Could they got a way of
going by almost twice the distance and then lose very
little of its uh fuel radiation shielding to the sun
evacuating it off. But that's one of those things where

(01:11:40):
gets iffy. You know that you can make the case
that it was getting close enough to drop off probes
and that's it. But that's the only thing I can
think of that woually makes sense.

Speaker 1 (01:11:48):
Extraordinary is that though that is just like, that's the
biggest event in human history. Now you're gonna be yeah, yeah, right,
or for sure you're gonna be running for governor of
Ohio soon and and I'm excited about that. But with
with me saying something like that, it's pretty cavalier, but

(01:12:12):
he will be governor of Ohio someday. What do you
make of the interest of Congress and the Senate and
these UFO hearings and the and the expert witnesses, especially
this last hearing that we just had where we had
for one active member right in the Navy, but three

(01:12:35):
members of the four members of the military, one still
active active duty to get up and testify about about
UFOs and UAPs in front of Congress with some pretty
amazing stories to tell.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
It's a breath of fresh air. When we were growing up,
nobody in the sciences on the military want to be
caught dead saying I think I saw an alien because
it was like a career or in our right and
it was I am so glad to see the government.
And again I take this from the extreme skeptic perspective.
I don't think these are aliens in all likelihood, but

(01:13:10):
I hated that you're aware you are automatically considered to
be some kind of lunatic because you were looking at
this topic that never made sense scientifically or ethically, and
it should always been takeing a lot more seriously than
it was. I'm glad to see that is again. You
know that they are starting to do then they did
that if a little bit in the fifties too, I suppose.

(01:13:30):
But yes, we should treat this stuff seriously and give
it serious contemplation. It doesn't necessarily mean it's what's actually occurring,
but it shouldn't be something where you got to go,
you know, hide that you've ever seen one. If you
think you've seen a UFO, you should be able to
say I think I saw that, the same way you
report a bayar in your backyard, because that's how you
should treat any anomoly, a free sense of being able

(01:13:52):
to report it without people pointing a finger at you.
Because anomalies are weird and rare, that's why they are anopolies,
and if people are afraid to report them when they
see them, we never get to actually figure out what
they are, whatever they turn out to be. And we
had this mindset, and I really am very upset of
academia and general about that of treating any of these
things as you know, nonsense. Well, at the same time,

(01:14:16):
in physics we're freely talking about alien scenarios in the
Sunni's eighties all the time, generally on the more skeptical side.
But I might say most physicists are a lot more
favorable towards alien life in this s galaxy than I am.
I tend to see there's no other intelligences in the galaxy.
Most people I know in the scientists think that there is,
and yet at the same time they thought that it
will still be so harshly skeptical towards people who thought

(01:14:37):
they might have encountered it. And I always go back
to that same thing, that there's aliens in this galaxy
to make spaceships practically the contractory installar systems, I think
it would be absurd to suggest they wouldn't visit that.
That's why I tend to conclude they don't exist.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
See my Drake equation. Bore this for you tonight, the
Drake equation. See this is why. And I don't want
to at all kick a dead horse on this, but
the Drake equation. When Frank Drake developed this and wrote

(01:15:13):
it out and did some initial calculations with all of
his other buddies. Right, and look at it. The number
that they came up with, and you remember, it's ten thousand.
There's ten thousand planets with advanced alien et extraterrestrial life
on it. That was the first number in the nineteen sixties, right.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
I don't remember the exact calculation, but yeah, they've definitely
got a wide range way.

Speaker 1 (01:15:40):
That was back then. So they spit out the original
number was ten thousand planets with advanced life on it. So,
but that was before they knew. Now, even if you
let this equation fly and you don't change it, you
just plug in the data. Right, Well, now what do
we know about the Milky Way? What we know is

(01:16:03):
there's at least a trillion planets. A trillion. Frank Drake
wasn't when he came up with ten thousand planets. There
wasn't a trillion plugged into this equation at that time,
or stars and the way that we have calculated now
and we still don't even know how many stars are

(01:16:24):
in the Milky Way we had.

Speaker 2 (01:16:26):
I mean, I think when I was a kid, they
were saying that we guess maybe one percent of stars
would have a earthlike ish planet, you know, in habitazone
size and all that. And that was already telling us
one hundred billion or ten billion in that case. But
you know, it was already a huge nump. I don't
think it's ever been less than a million that they
would have calculated by that. But the other thing is

(01:16:46):
we don't have any idea what the other terms are
value that. For all, we know, one out of a
billion plants might get liken on in the first place
and they all become intelligent, or almost every planet has
like analogy on it but almost never develops a brain.
We just don't know we know how many plasts all
these days when we say it's not a trillion, they're
probably going to be. I mean, if Marlost can have

(01:17:08):
had life, then if you have to wind that zone field,
what about places like like Titan or we have methane
based life, or like Europa if those places that life
doesn't things stop you from having life on a planet
like Pluto, so you or even on comments there's some
chi energy flux on them. You could have trillions of

(01:17:30):
bodies in this galaxy, maybe even the hundreds of trillions
where life could realistically have popped up.

Speaker 1 (01:17:37):
And then doesn't brain right right, Well, the asteroid Benu
for me, just says, yeah, that is the case. Just
just from that from uh, you know, one little scoop
of dirt right off of that asteroid had the twenty
amino acids that make a DNA or RNA, and the

(01:18:00):
five protein proteins are complex. People don't understand how complex
proteins are. We can't replicate proteins.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
I mean it's amo acids are not that hard themselves.
It's stated o, what make up the proteins.

Speaker 1 (01:18:13):
But yeah, proteins are complex, comm complex.

Speaker 2 (01:18:18):
A molecule and it's the equid of like a little
lego house of lot of molecule. And you compare that
to a protein or DNA. It's like looking a skyscraper.
That's right, that's right, a skyscaper.

Speaker 1 (01:18:28):
And so we find the five proteins that make up
DNA in one little scoop of right that that you know,
we crash land that in Utah. Remember that it was great,
that was a huge event. But that one random asteroid,
random scoop of dirt off that asteroid that we bring

(01:18:49):
back to this planet and everything that you need to
kick start life was found in that one little scoop.

Speaker 2 (01:18:54):
We've seen evidence of amino acid clouds that would outmask
this whole planet for your quasars and other nebulae, and
that is not you know that evening. There is a
possible way that you might have life that just doesn't
happen to work off DNA, and maybe you know it
doesn't happen to use amino acids, and maybe it uses
any number of other protein options that don't even rely

(01:19:16):
on them, and so we don't know, right, But that's
why by default I tend to assume life is not
all that exceptionally rare, but that intelligent life is the
problem though, is that intelligent life they can build spaceships,
shouldn't stay rare, because they should build spaceships and go
to other places. So you have to start asking, well,
either they don't exist, or they have other interesting places

(01:19:38):
they go, or they just don't like to go. And
it could be something like, well, the galaxy is a
fun place. But once we discovered how big portals to
another universe, we realize that universe was way richer than
this one. So why don't I go settle a desert
that I had to spend centuries traveling to get the
newest part of that, I can step through onto a
multiverse copy of my planet where humans that have developed

(01:19:59):
as otherwise I. And that just takes one quick walk
through the stargates that were.

Speaker 1 (01:20:03):
Yeah, but you wouldn't have Las Vegas. You wouldn't have
Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (01:20:07):
Oh you could find a version that had Las Vegas
that would be populated.

Speaker 1 (01:20:09):
That's there are that. That's one thing. Uh, and especially
with the skeptics that discussed this stuff. Why Earth, I mean,
what's so interesting about you know what? We have looked
at and are actively seeking out exoplanets. All right, we

(01:20:31):
haven't found a beautiful blue gem yet like us. This
is as far as planets go that we have discovered.
It's pretty kick ass.

Speaker 2 (01:20:42):
We have yet to find You'll see the new hype
up this of that article about you know, well we
found this exoplant. That's another Earth like thing. We have
yet to find an exoplanet that is as habitable as
Venus or Mars. When they say this was this, we
found this exoplanet. It's something twice as massive as Earth
or at best usually bigger. So but that's the limitation
of the telescope. Those things are probably pretty common. It's

(01:21:04):
easier to spot big stuff and hot bright stuff, which
means closer to the sun. We will we will find out,
we'll get better telescopes, and you know that is one
of those things. We just have to keep building more
of them, which will get easier as a bigger presence
in space. But we we always have to figure out
and we will get answers to these things too. That
is the you know they that they use the X

(01:21:25):
files example. The truth is out there. It is out there.
I'm skeptical about what those answers will be in terms
of ilien life nearbias, but that agent.

Speaker 1 (01:21:34):
Does it change? How how how radically does it change
if three i at lists for you? How radically does
it change if three i at lists turns out to
be artificial?

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Usually? Uh, at that point in time, I get incredibly
paranoid about what happens to intelligent life because is it
alive or just artificial? If it's alive, I can be
a little bit happier use them, assuming that it's a
very slow probe that's going to comby at some point
and say hey, if you feel like building up portal

(01:22:05):
to this other cool universe, Come come give us a visit. Uh.
If it's dead, then that means that no one has
managed to produce a functioning spaceship and a thirteen billion
year old galaxy that is still alive.

Speaker 1 (01:22:21):
It could be a it could be AI androids.

Speaker 2 (01:22:27):
Yeah, and it could be And that that's the same
kind of question of what the AI up to. You
have all that's left over is a bunch of stupid
AI and again not very smart ones. A new civilization
because you have something like you know, a lieutenant command
of data out there. He's not going to just sit
around for a buildings. He's gonna build a civilization or something.
If he doesn't want to build more robots, he'll go
clone up some humans to make any civilization from it.

(01:22:48):
Says it's a very it's not a not a universe
i'd be particularly happy to see. But again, the thing
is if you find out things artificial, there could be
so many other reasons to explain it. The problem is
that most the ones that come to my mind do
not fulfill me with cheer.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
So if it's if it's not ours, if it's not
us from the future, holy shit, that's yeah, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:23:14):
Us from the future. Holy shit, yeah right.

Speaker 1 (01:23:16):
Right, right right. Uh, let's get to some questions from
the audience really quick. This is from David Toddy, says,
what is the six kilometer long spray forward toward the
sun doing? Everybody's asking that same question, what's up with that?

Speaker 2 (01:23:33):
So, assuming it is actually going that direction, it's not
an optical illusion, because it could be that too. We
who do have some that have actually jetted out, some
in vigual comments that have jetted out towards the Sun
by default. If you just think of this as a
simple example, if you're following towards the Sun and the
stuff of vapily off your surface, it is going to
go that way. That's if it were artificial, a sign

(01:23:55):
of things trying to slow down relative to the Sun,
which means trying to kill speed. That it's still not
the right angle though, because you're not actually trying to
point your flame at the Sun to slow down. You
bind be pointing of kind of more angled a way
to kill your speed. But what would it be doing
if it was actually like an artificial beam going towards
the Sun. Why would we beaming particles at the sunn't.

(01:24:17):
I don't know why you would do. That doesn't mean
there was a reason. I just can't think of one.

Speaker 1 (01:24:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, our ability to understand even for you
mass assets planning to study three I atlas. Of course
we have Hubble, web Test, swift sphere X. We know
about perseverance, the Mars reconnaissance and curiosity, but it's also
the Europa Clipper that I was talking about earlier. Lucy

(01:24:43):
and Psyche. Those are the two probes that are en
route right now to Jupiter and Saturn.

Speaker 2 (01:24:48):
Yeah, I think it isn't Psyched to send astom. But
either way, Yeah, everything we've got that we can potentially
turn toward it we are going to or have already
because it again it it's artificial or not. It's amazingly
you know, this is improbable as an event or if
it turns out what if this isn't improbable because again
we had a Mua Moor and boris off much smaller

(01:25:11):
both of them. But if this actually turns out to
be a very normal thing for us. We saw these
things crafting the source system disclosed all the time. That
means there was a lot junk. Yeah, and that's a
very positive sign in some ways, but that would be
a little bit odds with our current estimates for background material.

(01:25:31):
Not for them, things would actually have to cover dark
matter as regular matter, but that would still be a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:25:36):
And don't get me started on that. Do not get
me started. But and also the Parker Solar Probe punch
and the E s A NASA soho and juice as well,
thank you for that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
UH had something too, but I can't remember what it
is the moment.

Speaker 1 (01:25:55):
Okay, now this has been put forward by Avi Lob Jimmy,
would you consider there is a black swan event? That's
a tough one.

Speaker 2 (01:26:06):
Uh?

Speaker 1 (01:26:06):
And and where are you on this? When Avi wrote,
you know, the paper and spoke about this a couple
of weeks ago, uh, that we better get ready for this?
What do you what do you think of the black
swan possibility?

Speaker 2 (01:26:20):
So a black swan is by nature of something that's
really obvious in hindsight but wasn't in advance. I think
what people eating for them was what would what et
M Banks called an o CP or out of context problem,
And that's bigger where you like, Hey, what are those
strange metal ships pulled up together outside island? I don't
seen before. I don't know that aliens would sap all

(01:26:42):
that black swine us right now, because you do like
to pull the population half. People believe in aliens, I mean,
busy see.

Speaker 1 (01:26:50):
And that's where you guys, the intelligentsia, You guys, you guys,
you brilliant thinkers, you guys are all going to treat
this like a black swan. All of you are going
to go kind of happen everybody.

Speaker 2 (01:27:07):
There are a lot of folks like, well, I'm with
the National Space side, of course, and and I'm often
a lot of folks come and say, well, Isaac, I
loved your episode on X, but don't you think aliens
have visited? Or don't you the X. They all have
different views on it, and it matches up pretty well
with the rest of humanity on that. I think it's
it's really will we be shocked by?

Speaker 1 (01:27:26):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:27:26):
I think it's if you if you kind of know
what the universe seems to look like, and you really
invest that model, and then something comes by and says, Nope,
you're wrong. If that doesn't like mess up your day
at least a little bit, then you're much much wiser
and more mentally agile person than I am. I'm if
people land on the front line that well and get

(01:27:48):
out and it's like Aliens is like we saw your video,
is it thought somebody should let you know you're so wrong.
I was like, oh, I have your dorkous breakdout of it.

Speaker 1 (01:27:56):
Well, you're a scientist, you know that's how it plays out.

Speaker 2 (01:27:59):
But even though I could recover from that, and I
think I could, but it would take a little at
the time.

Speaker 1 (01:28:04):
You got to have the skin to do what you do. Man,
you just do. This is a great question here is
from jose If three I Atlas is not a comment,
then could it be a giant meteor or asteroid? Okay, yeah, okay,
Before you answer that, you I want you to think

(01:28:25):
of this twofold because you mentioned this earlier. We've all
seen the science fiction movies of a battle out in
deep space and you know, and you always wonder, well,
what happened to that debris? You know, where does it go? Well,
if that's the case, and I know that it is,

(01:28:49):
it's got to be going on out there somewhere in
the universe or in this in this galaxy of ours,
that eventually we would see some some space debris left
over from an ancient war. Why would that be a surprise?
And again an asteroid or a meteor too as well
as a possibility if it's not an active space pro

(01:29:12):
but it's space debris, which what you know an asteroid
is it's broken off of something. What do you what
do you make of that? If it's not a com
it's not a comet, So could it be a media
or an asteroid And.

Speaker 2 (01:29:25):
It says of a common being way, something that's gone
or being our sudden close enough to get burned up appeatedly.
It's not that it could be an asteroid. It could
actually be an asteroid. The issue is that it moves
too fast be anything that was in our system, unless
maybe there was a larger planet out there that it
just happened to get a really really close approach to.

(01:29:47):
But basically it's too fast to be needed to this system.
But it could be an asteroid from any of the
other places. And could it be on a hyperbolic getary
for one of those, Probably not a belt object, but
there's a lot of stuff that could cause explosion that fast.
You could be anywhere near nova. You could have been
cracked off a planet everyone's always suggested to be a
fragment of something that hit a white dwarf, and uh,

(01:30:08):
that's an option. It was speed up as it approaches
us and any objects it gets to a sources of
speed up. So this was not the speed it was
moving through you know, stellar space. Add so these suns
and while we add like thirty kill yours per second
speed to the thing where it's at. But that's rough.

(01:30:28):
It could be a fragment of a proto planet that
hit something. It could even be a proto planet left
over shard. But it could just be a mundane asteroid
that has dried thudostar space for a long time and
picked up stuff. I mean, it's caught out there. There's
a lot of gas that could have been attracted to it.
It has no groudy of its own to speak of,
so it wouldn't be much. But it's got a cross section.

(01:30:49):
We're picking stuff up.

Speaker 1 (01:30:50):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:30:51):
A space ship like a bigger words solar seal or
floating through space or a hollow ship that basically is
very large compared to its mass could pick up all
sorts of ice as well. It's in deep space, in
which case it's gonna look very much like a frozen
ice ball. But the fragments themselves are going to fall
into three categories. The ones that weren't moving fast enough

(01:31:14):
to leave a solar system wherever the battle took place,
if you would, the ones that were on the outskirts
of solar systems, they didn't even much repounding at all.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
And then the ones that were moving so fast that
they'd leave the galaxy. So you have some fragments that
were moving throughout the galaxy but never got stuck to
the system. I think I actually ran the numbers on this.
I want to say it's all ghost on models episode,
but it might have been another one a lot of
episodes these days, like a deep space fortress, you're gonna
do it, something like that, and then a big ice

(01:31:43):
bod begin with, and it's at the edge of your
solar system. So even one random explosion, it's going to.

Speaker 1 (01:31:48):
Be fast to make an escape pod from the death Star.

Speaker 2 (01:31:53):
It could be well, yeah, a good escape pot. I
have a big sale on it. Poppy too. It's easy
to make things seen in the push it with the
leaser means on the slow down. And again, if it's
not a comet, it could be an asteroid. Yeah, I
guess that is more accurate too, because asteroid means starlike
horrible name for those things. Uh So, it might be

(01:32:14):
the first real asteroid we've gotten to see in that context,
somebody actually is from the stars. But it's the velocity
deserves its own name, you know, whatever it is, it
probably deserves to have its own category.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
Jimmy and Isaac, why is nobody asking Space Force what
close up images they're getting? A three I Atlas? I
can guarantee you now remember three eye Atlas. It was
discovered from our impact system. That's what atlas stands for.
How crazy is that?

Speaker 2 (01:32:45):
You know?

Speaker 1 (01:32:46):
Uh so, I would assume remember in the movie don't
look up the Planetary Defense Force. I think that's what
it was called. It it's a real you know, it's
a real place that everything must have been activated when
this was first detected. Wouldn't Space Force be interested in
this object?

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
Probably? It's hard to say because Space Force is still
very new. So I know they have a lot of protocols.
I actually got the work on whether I think. Thanks.
So it is busy helping them wargames, some ideas together
how they should operate. But brilliant minds geeks. Of course
they're geeks, so they've seen sci fi too. The other
what's this strange anomaly that's approached your star system that

(01:33:28):
everyone's looking at right now and doesn't appear to be normal?
Should we look at it? Of course the answer is yes,
they're going to. I just don't know that Space Force
actually has very deep space you know assets right now.
I think they're still mostly focused on well set up
to be honest, they're still getting themselves up to snuff,
but they're mostly interested in low orth orbit medium worth

(01:33:48):
orbit objects. That's what they are focused would be on.
So is somebody looking at I'm sure, but you know,
I don't know that it's gotten too deep. But then
they can also have some tile team that's busy trying
to wargame. What if it's full of alien of eaters?

Speaker 1 (01:34:02):
Right right, right, right right? Uh check this out from Danny.
Stargate Universe predicted this. They did. You know what I'm
gonna say that can I say you know more about
science fiction than I do?

Speaker 2 (01:34:15):
And I know a lot, right, I love the Stargate.

Speaker 1 (01:34:19):
Stargate Universe was one of the best TV series ever made.
It was it was seasons and and it ended before
the big finale.

Speaker 2 (01:34:29):
I think the film was that so many sci fi
shows they need three or four seasons to really get going.
I love Stargate, I love Stargate Atlantis, especially Start Atlantis
these days, and I love the universe. I wish that
got in some more seasons the franchise, But it was
also trying to be a little bit too much like
Battlestar Galaska at the time. I think maybe that kind
of like it lacked some of the kill over from

(01:34:51):
the Lantis.

Speaker 1 (01:34:53):
Well that's true, that's true. But what I really enjoyed
the overarching sorry is is that the the storyline was
they were chasing down the final signal from something right,
a message, and they were going to that and then

(01:35:13):
visiting stuff along the way and having the Andy. By
the way, the ship that they were on had a
Mayan pyramid on the back.

Speaker 2 (01:35:23):
I thought that that was the defranchise always. You're drawn
very heavily on a lot of the Uh Egyptian ones too,
write beautiful and again I'm pretty skeptical about the stuff,
but I love being my sci fi, so it makes
good stories and Stargate is I wish they'd bring that
back but then maybe not to because I haven't always
been through the new stuff from Star Wars or Star

(01:35:43):
Trek and Stargate could get a reboot and I might
decide I don't like it. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:35:49):
Uh the new uh uh the new Star Trek which
which just ended was so good too as.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
Well, I need I think was I haven't watched what's
the new stuff yet?

Speaker 1 (01:36:02):
Strange new worlds? Yeah, so good? Okay, Jimmy. And trying
to obtain aster data? Where do you go for info? Uh?
Where do you go for your info?

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
Hmm? For actual row data on astronomical things. I usually
don't because I tend to let get the distractions to
people's papers. But if you're looking for a good one,
the database that well, it's like exoplant data. You can
actually go to the big exoplanet catalog that they got online.
I whish, I'm afraid. I do not know if top ahead,
but you can google it. What about or asteroid stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:36:36):
What about E s A. They've got a pretty good data.

Speaker 2 (01:36:39):
Yeah them an assay open with the data. But a
lot of times, like for asteroids, there is a growing database,
and I know there's one that's actually online where they
we try to keep track that they got a lot
of amateurs that report stuff in and I'm trying to remember.

Speaker 1 (01:36:55):
Oh are you talking about Uh, I have it right here,
hold on, I'll help you out. You ready, yep? Uh
the Minor Planet Center of the International Astronomical Union.

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
Yeah, that sounds right. So all called minor planets and uh,
you know, which is a much more accurate term than
asteroid too. So we have a lot of terms. And
well it happens in science is you you finding it
as new and weird, and so you have to give
its name and you don't fully understand it yet, and
then it turns out to be hope, Well, gas giant

(01:37:32):
is a hople name for Jupiter and Saturn.

Speaker 1 (01:37:36):
Uh. You know, we sure are finding a lot of those,
and and I and I always but I always think, man,
this seems are there just that many more of them? No,
there's not. It's just that they're they're big.

Speaker 2 (01:37:52):
Most we talked about we've got like ten thousand extra
plants for it was these days and say it is
a huge numbl Yes, but almost every single one of
those is either a a huge gas giant begger than
juveior b something within spein distance of its star or
see both, and it's mostly both because of the easiest
one to see. It's like going out in the woods

(01:38:12):
with a peerblocular because she's just about a redwood tree
than a you know, a little dandelions.

Speaker 1 (01:38:19):
Though, well, especially if you're looking at mass causing a wobble,
that's the first thing. Or if you're looking at a transit,
and is that transit a year long or is it
transit we're finding out that the.

Speaker 2 (01:38:34):
One one of its years anyway, it would be one
one of their years. It will transit every one of
its Some.

Speaker 1 (01:38:39):
Of these transits are one of our yeah, one of
our days, yeah exactly. And so when you have a
gas giant close, it's hot, so we're seeing that, but
it's also spinning, it's it's transit is ten days or
whatever two at that point, and you're going to see
that dip in light very easily with a gas giant.

(01:39:00):
So we're we're I think that they're just easier for
us to find.

Speaker 2 (01:39:05):
Having Earth assume we assume that you have for an
object that's ten one tenth is wide, you expect see
about ten times more of them based on monoplanet data.
So this actually issued with the Atlas is because it's
so much bigger and looked a lot bigger too than
ones like a Muamora or we would expect it to

(01:39:27):
see a lot more of those smaller ones, like you
should see like a hundred of these smaller ones for
every one of the Atlas sized objects. And that's a
legitimate nominally bring up, except the prom being that you
are again way more likely to spot those. So I
tend to guess that things like a Mua Mura or
Borisov are ridiculously common and we just missed most of them,

(01:39:49):
and time would tell on that one. But because you know,
we would expect there to be so many more of
them for every asteroid like series that's a thousand kilometers cost,
you have like a million one kilometer across asteroids in
the belt.

Speaker 1 (01:40:04):
So Jose just said, are there any pictures or film
taken from Mars probes already available? Yes, here's one right
here there you go, that's from the Mars of reconnaissance. Yeah,
that's that's that's pretty incredible when you think about it,
and you know, traveling at that speech.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
Comment through, that's pretty incredible. I mean, it's amazing just
seeing how much better detection. Body goes up these days
and you can get all I don't know that they
put up every last image they get in and.

Speaker 1 (01:40:40):
Of course they don't, of course they just Isaac puts
your sensible hat back on.

Speaker 2 (01:40:47):
But there's a bunch that all available one way or
another from NASA if you just go like each one
of those robos has sown fan page or they got
that's the data.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
Right right, right right? What did it surprise you if
NASA was holding back you know that they had something
pre uh not definitive, but something that throws up question marks.

Speaker 2 (01:41:09):
Well not really because they'd like to hold stuff for
some time anyway, just you know, get quarantined so they
can actually get papers out on it, right, And there's
there's a timeline of that. Usually you know it's coming
up because there's a lot of whispers about, hey, we
just got this. But obviously they're not really trying to
keep that secret. They just want to, you know, quarantine
the data if they have the chance to write the
paper on it first. But the idea that if they

(01:41:34):
have this information would be keeping it secret. It just
depends on why why what you know, if someone said
you will keep the secret or we're going to blow
up all your telescopes, uh, so you can't spot us.
Then they probably would say yes to that. If they
said we'll blow up your planet if you don't, then
they probably said yes that. I don't know what hypothetical
aliens would have or our government would have said to

(01:41:55):
response them to say, let's keep this secret. I just
tend to assume that it would be very non fununctual,
because we are not that good at keeping secrets. At
least nassist. Oh, at least they're very good at keeping
secrets for me.

Speaker 1 (01:42:05):
At that point, Okay, I can't. I can't go too
deep into what I'm about to say, but you'll understand
what I'm about to say and why I can't expand
on it. Everybody, everybody that I have met in this

(01:42:28):
city of Palmdale whose parents worked at Skunk Works, Okay,
which is everybody that's everybody here works there, right or
NASA or North of Grumman or Air Force Plan forty two.
It's all the same group of buildings, you know, down
the street. None of them knew what their parents did,

(01:42:57):
every single one. I asked them all the same question. Oh, okay,
so born and raised here. Yeah, Okay, what did dad do?
I worked at skunk works? Okay, what do you do?

Speaker 2 (01:43:07):
Don't know?

Speaker 1 (01:43:09):
Don't know, I don't know?

Speaker 2 (01:43:10):
Who know? For years? Who do not know that I
do a TV idea idea that I you YouTube. But
I mean one thing, if you're in a science so
injurying thing, how many people really know what their parents
do anyway?

Speaker 1 (01:43:24):
Okay sored Okay, I can sort of buy that. But
you also have a general interest, you know, you know,
if your dad works stuff too, if he's the general
sales manager at a car dealership, he's not going to
keep that secret. You're gonna know exactly what he's doing
or whatever. But I'm just saying secrets can be kept,

(01:43:49):
even from your children.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
And especially when like in a lot of cases, they
don't really want to know that they ought to, Like,
I don't think they'd be a shine of their work there.

Speaker 1 (01:43:57):
People they're not ashamed. They just they've signed agree.

Speaker 2 (01:44:02):
Boring the NDAs. It's you know, if you if you
put this out there, we're with you in jail for
a very long time. Like, well, what do you do?
I'm an aospace engineer? Okay, I clocked out there? Yeah,
I can't tell you what is because it's top secret,
and you would understand it, and to be honest, you
would really care because all I've been to you for
the last ten years is manufacturing a slightly better aerofoil.

Speaker 1 (01:44:25):
What may be true for sure, but there's another part
component to consider with this. Somebody like me comes along
and ask them these questions, right, and you can't have
an answer for somebody like me. What if I was adversarial?
What if I was you know, a Russian spy or

(01:44:46):
that you know and you find you you know, you
meet somebody at a pizza place, at Krispy Kream Donuts,
and you know, you just become friends and you find out, Well,
that's how.

Speaker 2 (01:44:59):
You do it.

Speaker 1 (01:45:00):
Oh your dad did what works?

Speaker 2 (01:45:03):
Right?

Speaker 1 (01:45:04):
Well, no, if your children doesn't have that information, then
it can't be sharp.

Speaker 2 (01:45:09):
I'll tell you well, saving me tell like young, we
were station of a c I was stationed. It was
HEAs in Germany. We still it was Postcord War. There's
always that worry that you might have spies asking questions.
Say look out for the kind of questions that say,
got a nice young goal comes up to you. It's
just like, what's the entry code to get into the billions,
more like, oh, hey you are you're in one of
those what do you call them again with a bunch

(01:45:29):
of soldiers up a battalion? Oh yeah, I'm in two
three F A. That's how battalion. Oh yeah, I think
I met your commander.

Speaker 3 (01:45:36):
Is it that?

Speaker 2 (01:45:36):
What's his name? No, it's X. It's very easy to
pump people for information if they have it, so the
best that he is not to give to them.

Speaker 1 (01:45:44):
Are you speaking from experience.

Speaker 2 (01:45:46):
I've never been Well, I've been pumped performation at some point,
but no, I was. I intentionally avoided any military service
that required me to have top secret clans I want to.
I used to work with the Air Force when I
was a civilian back in college, and I just don't
like the extra hoops to have to jump through to
be involved in things like that that much. And I

(01:46:06):
would say that most of the stuff that is ultra
secret anyway is incredibly boring and not not for the
other interesting anyway. It's well, what frequency wavelength is the
IR on a you know, stealth bomber when it's at
cruising speed? And say, that's not information that you want
to have in your head. Anyway, and uh, you know
what's that's not all that exciting either, But I think

(01:46:28):
gets keeping information secret. That variety is made easiest by
the fact that most folks who are in it would
desperately love to talk about their field, but they're always
going to be suspicion to why you and suddenly interested
who's not one of their peers from their own organization,
like you're not gonna be in a hotel and some
goals and say, oh wow, I find that so fascinating.

(01:46:48):
Tell me more about what was it the if red
wavelength of his stealth bomber with that cruisy Tell me
well about that one. Wait a minute, that's suspicious.

Speaker 1 (01:46:58):
Now what you know? I love talking numbers and odds.
How okay, here's here's this is one of the points
that AVI makes, and you made this point earlier. Once
we collect data like this is the third interstellar object that,

(01:47:19):
believe it or not, that number three, we can suddenly
build numbers off of that crazy just just that number three, right, Okay,
So you know what is the frequency of this how
much of you know, you can calculate the number we
have now calculated how many particles there are in the universe, right,
I mean, these are things you can calculate, you can

(01:47:39):
eventually get to these numbers. But when it comes to
something like this, and there's a frequency of something arriving here,
what can what can be pulled out of the fact
that this also it's the third object, but it's on

(01:48:04):
our elliptic, and it's and it and and it's trajectory
to the Sun and its closeness. Now, what kind of
numbers can I mean, how common?

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
That's a great one though, for because because one if
I was going to send on the end is that
if I was just passing through a star system, then
I want to gain speed. I have no reason want
to come out on the ecliptic, but if I want
to observe things, that helps. However, they also has to
keep a bit of a sign. Note it's in like
five degrees the ecliptic something like that, which is making
like a one twenty chance of being that's not too improbable,
but we were we more likely to spot it. So

(01:48:39):
for my part, I tend to assume that there's probably
one hundred of these that passed by in the last
ten years. We see, and these are the three we
locked out and spotted that got close enough, big enough,
and we are looking into that area. Now, we weren't
going to miss Atlas, it's quite right. But the other ones,
we could have missed them easily, especially they were not
on the elliptic. So you do have a bit of
an observer by a stated says that we're more likely

(01:49:01):
to see the ones on the ecliptic play, but it's
still it's improbable.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
Yeah, yeah, I I had this sighting. Uh Okay, I'm
going to go back to this question. I'm gonna mark
this because I'm going to ask you this question for
a second time. And by the way, thank you for this, Isaac.
You're the absolute very best is Uh Now I forgot

(01:49:26):
what I was gonna ask. It was so important, it
was so important. Why did it just get past me? Okay,
I'm not going to waste time on that. So Isaac
said it's not a comment, then what does he think
it is?

Speaker 2 (01:49:40):
I know interstellar asteroid would be my top guest, but
I don't know what it is that we need more.
I mean, it's not a comic, because a comment's a
specific thing.

Speaker 1 (01:49:54):
What do you want it to be?

Speaker 2 (01:49:56):
What would I love with to be a dialect alien ship. Awesome,
but you know, again that would have a lot of
potential downsides in terms that would kind of indicate a
very dark galaxy out there for for intelligent life. But yeah,
of course it should be awesome for that. I think
it's going to be. I think it's going to turn

(01:50:17):
out to be a random piece of debris from some
collision of a put A planet or dwarf planet and
some of the Sol System, and maybe in a few
centuries we had to run down which one it was.

Speaker 1 (01:50:29):
There's a uh. There was a bunch of comments that came,
I don't know where people are getting this data from.
And you know, once you start a rumor, it builds
in a dog man becomes truth. But that there were
some comments going around that it was hollow. Did you
read any of that? And and where would you get

(01:50:52):
that kind of Yeah, where would you get that kind
of data from? Is my point.

Speaker 2 (01:50:56):
The only way you could tell in something like that
would be it was heating up too quickly, I suppose.
So let's say the surface was changing temperture and you
could tell by the infrared coming off you could see
the surface, and it was changing temperature too quickly for
an object of that mass being heated by the Sun
at that distance, then you could maybe start saying that

(01:51:18):
it had a hollow core, but not an object that
big I think anyway, just because it would be so
insulated in terms of thickness, something like a moore. You
might be a tough was hollow because it would be
heat up too quickly as it got close to the Sun.
But that would be like the easiest way of telling that.
Or if it was spinning some some spin will let
you tell if it was, you know, more condensed to

(01:51:40):
the outside than evenly distributed, But that would be a
stretch easy to tell if you got close to it, though,
but not not from I don't know how you'd be
able to tell from the data we have on that one.

Speaker 1 (01:51:52):
Will it be easy for the world because of science
fiction and films and books and comments, comments and everything else,
conspiracy theory, everything else that we have developed in the
last fifty years about interstellar space and et and contact.

(01:52:14):
Would would the world freak you know what I mean?
Or you think so? You think the world would freak out?

Speaker 2 (01:52:24):
I yes, because knowing about the idea and watching like aliens,
aliens probably would not be like the the green slave
girl from Marye and we' see install trek. It's more
likely be some three tenant called monster that you would
not want to be anywhere in the same room with.
They're not going to look like us, they're not going
to act like us. They have certain overlapping logic things

(01:52:47):
like that, but they're going to be weird and they're
going to be I said, I can't really see what
the scenario would be for intelligent civilizations in this galaxy
not expanding if they could, so the answer that if
they're there, there's gonna be an answer. Obviously, it's not
probably some frequent incidence that's gonna be disturbing. I think

(01:53:08):
that if you actually get to meet aliens, it's gonna
freak you out. And you can be ready for you
can see all the sci fi in the world, but
still it's not gonna be like, oh hey, now this
is normal, this is good. I'd be worried if it
didn't freak us out, although I'll put the caveat that
that if I was an alien civilization trying to reach

(01:53:28):
out to us, I'd have done my homework in advance.
And if I'm not rampidly hostile or cruel. I am
going to try to to pre sort things to not
shock them too much. So like if youve got agents
on the ground, you start to say, well, look like
the Vulcans. Well let's put them into sci fi so
they're familiar. But I don't know that'd be like I

(01:53:51):
would try if I was encountering another alien race to
pre sort things so that they would not be too
horrifially shocked. We actually said hello. But then I tend
to feel like the best most ethical way I deal
with that too is just come in and say hello,
Because spying on civilizations for multiple decades, especially when you're
actually there in person, that's going to start raising some

(01:54:13):
serious trust issues going there forward in the future.

Speaker 1 (01:54:17):
And and and here's what's interesting about that. I tend
to agree. But here's what's interesting. Your work in this
field about expanding thought and possibilities of every angle that

(01:54:37):
you can think of. Right, you have covered just every possibility,
which by the way, is endless, and it breaks off
into fragments. You can do what you are doing right. Right,
you are never ever going to.

Speaker 2 (01:54:51):
Run out of this, like two or three of them
the entire time. And I always keep finding other things
to discuss on it.

Speaker 1 (01:54:56):
Each one, watch, yeah, each one, another, one hundred questions. Look,
you did the Fermi Paradox, and you did ended up
doing like one hundred and fifty episodes on that, right.

Speaker 2 (01:55:06):
It's got to be at least fifty or sixty core.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's it's ins and so. But
here's here's what's crazy about that. You know, you have
built a huge audience, huge you know, and a great
fan base. Nobody has freaked out. You have presented some
pretty far out possibilities with this. Nobody's freaked out, nobody's

(01:55:31):
jumped off bridges. You know, people appreciate, But people appreciate
and are interested in this subject, Isaac. It's a really
big deal.

Speaker 2 (01:55:42):
And do you try to present the way like we
used to have a series I called the Existential Crisis Series.
I stopped doing episodes that specifically because I like to
try to give people a slightly nicer off ramp on episode,
same material, but a little bit less of a Oh no,
this is terrifying.

Speaker 1 (01:55:59):
Even even I had to back off on that. I did,
I did, I did, But.

Speaker 2 (01:56:05):
It does come to yeah, and all people freaked out
about No, I don't think so, and I think we'll
be less freaked out and more able to handle it.
But it was still that to be shocked. You know,
you think about advance to do your homework as best
you can. Ye're still but I mean that it was
good going to be like ope, this was just not
our at all. It's like we're gonna have to the moon.
Nobody even thought about the idea that might be super
sharp or dust on it. That's the one the hugest

(01:56:26):
factors not going back there. We don't have machinery that's
really well tested to survive that right now. So Yolo
hasn't to go back up there. We've made it back
all six times, but that was unexpected. But every time
we you know, do these explanations, we find something that
we you know, we just didn't expect that's not obviously
all that big of a deep of a thing. It's like, oh,

(01:56:47):
that was really obvious in hindsight. Lack swan right. A
lot of science is that. But it's just well, you know,
the when I say reality is so much stranger than fiction,
there are so many things where I would never have
believed it if it wasn't already like pure reviewed. That's
not how that would work. And so I assumed there's
a lot of stuff out there that I just take
for granted right now is true, it's gonna try to

(01:57:08):
be completely wrong.

Speaker 1 (01:57:09):
Oh yeah, well that's called the entire world of physics.
Uh uh he laughs because he knows I'm speaking the truth.
What would happen, Isaac? What would happen if an object
out size were to crash into the Sun at two
hundred and fifty thousand miles per hour?

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
Oh? I see, well, when I say earlier, it was
probably like twenty gear tons, and so I had like
ten to thirty duos of energy in it, something on
those line, plus a MIAs world mattitude there crashing in
the Sun.

Speaker 1 (01:57:38):
Would it be just a bit?

Speaker 2 (01:57:40):
Yeah, it happens, right, things that big. I don't know
if we've done to any observations. But what was that
one that ran in Jupiter years back?

Speaker 1 (01:57:48):
They had like eight you remember that?

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
Yeah, Yeah, it happens the Sun too. Now. In the
Sun's case, things tend to break up and fragment and
boil off when it actually hit.

Speaker 1 (01:57:59):
Yeah, I saw as I saw an asteroid or Metea
or whatever hit the Moon a couple of weeks ago,
and I watched the film of that. That was pretty
That was pretty cool.

Speaker 2 (01:58:10):
When you look at the size of the astro that
that crater on the south I can crater on the
south wall. That thing is huge and we've probably been
hit by things because of that too, But you know,
we don't have the record of that the way the
Moon does. The Moon looks like a very beat up
boxer's face and it shows its history, and it's an
abusive history. The Sun has been hit by far more

(01:58:30):
objects like that, and it's probably been hit by dwarf planets.

Speaker 1 (01:58:34):
All right, So would the Sun just swallow it up.

Speaker 2 (01:58:39):
Slowly slow? And people might think for something that big
now in the twenty kilometer range or things of the
maximum size that put non Atlas, and it's probably smaller
than that, it's going to swallow it up pretty easily
because heward fragment absorb and you might get a bit
of a spin up flair or something like that, but
probably not. The Sun is really thin there. It's like

(01:59:00):
thinner than thin air. On that photosphere that we look at.
The red giants, you can actually have plants existing inside
them for protracted periods of times because they are pot
but they are so thin it's like an oven. It
would take a long time to boil them off. You
would actually slow a spaceship down by going through a
red giant just to slow down. That way, it wouldn't
burn you out. But if it were like a larger

(01:59:24):
like a vesta and metallic asteroid, that would be much worse.
But I still don't think it would probably causing damage
to us. The kinetic energy involved would be less. The
Sun spits out in an hour and probably divide over
multiple days, So would it be noticeable, yes, But that's
sad thing that we don't have a lot of data
on things hitting the Sun. No, we don't have complection

(01:59:47):
on that.

Speaker 1 (01:59:49):
You never know about things, But could it pierce through
when you understand the way the Sun operates, and most
people don't, they just take it for granted and what
it is. But what's going on right now with its
hydrogen core and its helium shell and how that how
that works, and it's it's weird.

Speaker 2 (02:00:10):
It is.

Speaker 1 (02:00:12):
Entropy isn't playing out there. It'll play out in five
billion years, but right now it's pretty damn stable, right.

Speaker 2 (02:00:21):
You know what I mean? It's yeah, it produces energy,
and it excreets at the same rates, and it does
that by expanding, and it's thin, it's thin, it's thin.

Speaker 1 (02:00:30):
So but so if something went into it, is it
possible to have an exit door for a large coronal
mass ejection or something else to exit, you know, like
poking a hole in a balloon.

Speaker 2 (02:00:48):
You could, You could pass through the sun. Yeah, at
least the out of bits. We don't go try to
go through the core. But and again, if there's a
dense stuff fast of object, it might be able to
get through reasonably intact, especially through the thinner parts the top.
I don't think you'd be very likely to see even
there was a sunworts jectory actually get out of it though,
that was natural. And the reason why is one of

(02:01:09):
the things about commts is said that they differ is
they get baked over and over again, in and out right.
They lose material. They also are temporary. No common is
a permanent body. They are long lasting on a human timeline.
But every time they pass by the Sun they not
only getting perturbed a little bitbout the gravity of the Sun,
the other plants they pass by, which are all in

(02:01:30):
different places each time it comes through. They also getting
matter burned off them like a rocket flame, and that
adjustice jectory, so every time it has a different jectory
coming through, so they're never on a stable or of it,
and eventually they you know, they burn out. They probably
run in the Sun occasionally they and of course they
get to the Sun the way can be you know, perturbed,
so they don't really last forever. Nothing does, of course.

(02:01:54):
But I'd be really curious if we get better data
wutle to I actually see how would most of these
bodies work, because most of the poppies start off as
some interstellar deeper object, not the cheap about ones of course,
that just gets pictured by something else passing through it,
maybe like at this, and they just end up. We
had what was it Shortz's star that maybe passed within
as little as a tend of a light year of

(02:02:15):
us some tens of thousands of years ago, not that long,
and we probably had much closer. You know, you're going
to get comments from events like that. That's really cool,
but it is said. I just think weally don't have
much data on things seeing the Sun, at least I'm
not I'm familiar with that. Would be curious to.

Speaker 1 (02:02:32):
Get more data on Isaac, thank you so much for
this very important show. I think this is uh, We've
reached this point, this crossroads where we are able to
have these conversations about things like interstellar objects and what
they mean to us in humanity. And it's a really
big deal and we will see how this plays out.

(02:02:54):
But just thank you so much. I do want to
remind you, oh, I just put up or we just
put up in the chat your channel of course, Science
and Futurism with Isaac Arthur. When I first reached out
to you and you had like ten thousand subscribers, remember that,

(02:03:14):
Remember those? You remember those? Now you're now you're approaching
a million, and you've got all of this stuff that's
up there. And but we've been friends for a very
very long time, and I'm very proud of your success
and and just just thank you for everything that you do.
It's just you have an amazing body of work that's

(02:03:36):
up and everybody, do go check out Science and Futurism
with Isaac Arthur. It's one of the one of the
coolest rabbit holes that you can go down and and
just spend your time there and and jump into his
head because it's an amazing journey, and thank you for that, Isaac,
and keep doing what you're doing. We will. We're going
to do a show here again with Isaac now, not

(02:04:00):
only as this starts to play out with three I Atlas,
but Isaac and I have got a lot of catching
up to do and lots of things to talk about,
so we're gonna get that going very soon in the
next couple of weeks. And there you go, Isaac, Thank
you so much. How often do you do You still
do what? Once a week?

Speaker 2 (02:04:18):
I should do what? Two a week of late, but
once a week always on Thursday mornings. Then extra episodes
as time permits. So we got one tomorrow on for me.

Speaker 4 (02:04:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:04:30):
We haven't done one of those shows in a while too. Yeah. Yeah.
See that's that's it. That's why I love you, man, Isaac.
Thank you so much. Thank you for taking the time,
and we'll see you back here in a couple of weeks.
Thank you so much, man, Isaac Arthur. Everybody again. Science
and Futurism with Isaac Arthur on YouTube. Seriously, the reason
why the Internet is here is his YouTube channel. Go

(02:04:52):
and check it out. We've got the links up and
in the description below and of course over in our website.
Thank you so much, Isaac. Guys behaving be well. Tomorrow
night is our annual Halloween show with the one and
only Jim Harold. We've been doing this for many years.
Tomorrow Night, the Great Jim Harold joins Fade to Black.

(02:05:14):
So until Tomorrow night, Happy Halloween, Happy three I at List.
Dodgers lost tonight, by the way, they're behind three to two.
I'll see everybody tomorrow night. But for now, all I've
got is go Beckley Teppe. Bade to Black is produced
by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman, and Michelle Free.

Speaker 4 (02:05:35):
Special thanks to Bill John Dex, Jessica Dennis and Kevin
Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Albridge. Intro Spaceboy.

Speaker 1 (02:05:49):
Aide to Black is produced by kJ c R for
the Game Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted
in twenty twenty four by Fade to Black and the
Game Network, Inc. It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or
used anywhere in the known universe without.

Speaker 4 (02:06:06):
Written permission from Faye to Black or the Game Changer Network.
I'm your host, Jimmy Church, Go Beckley, Tappy

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