FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Grant Cameron

Tonight, author and researcher Grant Cameron joins us to discuss 3I/ATLAS... what is it? What does it mean for humanity??? Will our government tell us the truth about it??? All that and more...

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:28):
This Hope Radio for the Masses headline of US July eighth,
nineteen forty seven. The Yami Airport has an outstart applying
this turt has found and there's now in the possession
of the Yad air at the game and really changed
the game Gage.

Speaker 2 (00:44):
I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would
vanish if we were facing.

Speaker 3 (00:52):
An alien threat from outside this work. This is Day
to Black. It's your host Jimmy Church on the Game
Changer Radio Network. All right, welcome, how you doing fade
to Black? Yeah, yeah, yeah, Today's Tuesday, November fourth, twenty

(01:17):
twenty five. Let's do this. Man who Grant Cameron on
the show. Gotta get ready. I gotta be in playing
shape this week. I'm fade to black. Last night R.
L Pool was here. Tonight Grant Cameron joins US three
I Atlas Tomorrow night, Danny Gohler joins US DMT the

(01:38):
Code of Reality. You may have seen Danny's videos out there.
Have talked about it a lot on the show, where
he uses a laser to see the matrix codes. Yeah,
it's absolutely insane. We've been doing that Tomorrow night and
then Thursday night. We've got a schedule change Thursday night

(02:03):
A M A A j A our guest uh uh
had to uh reschedule, So uh, we're just going to
do an A M A A j A, which we
do once a month anyway, And I was just posting
in the chat I'd love to talk to Grant about
this actually, about what what songs? What music is E

(02:29):
T listening to on the ship when they cruise by Earth?
And I'm imagining something like, you know, uh, forward thinking
for the time, like the Cars I said Randy Newman
his song Cars Echo when the Bunny Man. You know

(02:50):
something uh maybe even almost depeche Mode. I don't know,
there's something, you know what I mean, something forward thinking.
You know that euro synth pop thing that was going
down in Germany and in the UK in the in

(03:10):
the early eighties. That was such a magical, magical time.
So anyway, all the way through the nineties. But and
in doing that, how do I say this, I'm not
sure how to look at it. Because if it is

(03:32):
some interdimensional blip through space and time that takes just
a second, then you don't have enough time to hit
play on your on your audio devices, right. But if
they're cruising through space. Now once they get here and
they're orbiting the planet or flying, you know, and cruising

(03:52):
through yeah, you have time to listen. So what would
they listen to? You know, what would they listen to?
Would they be eating like a slice of pizza and
listening to but maybe unchained by Van Halen that would
be pretty good too as well. So there you go.
Great week on the show. Tonight, Grant Cameron is here.

(04:12):
We're going to be talking about three I Atlas and
Grant not only a good friend but one of my
favorite guests, and I just love learning, and that's what
happens every time he is on the show. He has
been researching and doing this for ever. Nineteen seventy five
he kicked things off as a researcher, and of course

(04:35):
he became a researcher of the Year many times over
at different conferences around the world. He's not only an
expert on UFOs, but the government side of things and
the presidential side of things, and the pulse of what
governments around the world, the United States and Canada and
others are doing with the UFO subject. He is the

(04:56):
author of Charlie Redstar and that all I've got for
Grant because I just want to get him in. I
could sit, Grant, I could sit I could do an
intro for you for like thirty minutes. You know, one day,
one day I should do that. Just keep you sitting there.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
And just make me famous.

Speaker 3 (05:16):
Right, Oh man, I remember before we get things started,
because this is a great time for our community and
you're such a big part of it and your work
over the years. But I remember you. I can't remember
exactly how this went down, but you were at a

(05:38):
conference somewhere and you were sitting on a panel and
my name comes up from you and you said, so,
you know, you said what you said. I saw the
video for it later. But my phone rings and it's
you guys calling me from the conference asking me about
what I said on the show. Oh it was? Was

(06:02):
that Tom DeLong? Was that how that went down?

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yeah? Its faintly I can remember that.

Speaker 3 (06:09):
I barely remember it too, and yeah yeah, and uh
and I just really appreciate you, man, And that was
a really funny moment. I'm like, what, You're at a conference, yeah, man,
so I'm on speaker phone, but uh, yeah, I just
really appreciate you, man, And what a great time. I

(06:30):
do want to what's that?

Speaker 2 (06:32):
It's my red laser. Oh I tried it. I couldn't.
I couldn't get it to work.

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Oh I have Okay, during the break you charge that,
I'll go get mine. I have the same I have
the same one. But you know what those are good for? Flies?
You can you can you can ignite a fly in
like a half a second. It's pretty fun.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
I'm making it or making crazy cats that.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
That too, that too. They can get pretty hot. So
but yeah, what a great you If you go back
to the events of Charlie Redstar, and I'm going to
say it out loud, that was fifty years ago. You
know that's years ago. It's pretty nuts. Fifty We were

(07:26):
just talking about that a little bit ago. Be careful
what you wish for right is did you ever see
a time coming in the future like it is right
now when it comes to the subject of UFOs, And
of course I'm referring to the media and governments and
the public response where the ridicule and that veil seems

(07:51):
to have been lifted or is being lifted. It's not
gone yet, but and have everything out front like it is,
because that's what you've been fighting for but it seems
like something is happening. Did you ever see this coming?

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Not a chance.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
And I actually wrote an article in two thousand and
nine called the sixty four Reasons why the Government has
decided not to tell you the truth, and they included
stuff like Stephen Gerers bringing up the stock market will meltdown,
people are going to jump off bridges. And then twenty
seventeen came along. And what I always try to remind
Nicole calls the twenty seventeen ers, this huge group of
people researchers that have come in since twenty seventeen, is

(08:30):
you got to realize that the world is not the
way it was in nineteen seventy five. In nineteen seventy five,
it was very simple. There was there was basically UFOs.
Everybody thought they were extraterrestrial. There was it was all
nuts and bolts. There was no crop circles. There was
cadmulations that sort of started, and there was the ground traces,

(08:51):
which haven't happened for twenty five years. And I keep
trying to remind people that the phenomena is reflective, so
it changes as we change. So youse go eight ninety six,
they were flying around in wooden ships with propellers, and
then they went to the foo fighters and the green fireballs,
and then to the damski crafts, then to betting Barney
Hill with windows. There's a better craft scene with windows
for years. And then the triangles came and there was

(09:13):
no grays before sixty one. There's no reptilians before nineteen eighty,
and seventy five was a big year. Travis Walton was
actually abducted the same year. Later on in the year
after me. Linda Howe got involved the same year, so
did Bud Hopkins get involved that year. The whole thing
in Switzerland with Billy Meyers started in seventy five, so
seventy five was a transition period, but it was very,

(09:34):
very simple. It was just they come, they land. The
odd times they see little guys running around with little rods.
They were in silver suits and stuff. None of that
happens anymore, like light language happens now. There was no
light language. It's it's like a totally different world. That's
why I try to impress upon people is to remember
that everybody always thinks that well, what happens now happened then,
absolutely not the case.

Speaker 1 (09:56):
In no way.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
Or you can even talk to people today and talk
to them about angel here and they'll go, what are
you talking about? And that was big in the fifties,
sixty seventies, and that's where I have always said that
the phenomens reflect if it's almost like it changes as
we change, and it reflects what we believe.

Speaker 1 (10:13):
So you know, they were coming. We used to think.

Speaker 2 (10:15):
I even looked it up today, the idea that we
used to think that Mars was inhabited, and the Lowell
Observatory was actually built for that exact reason to study Mars,
because Lowell believed that Mars was inhabited and that it
was it was dried out, but that there's the canals

(10:36):
and all that kind of stuff. And then you see,
you know, as we progress, the phenomena changes, and then
it goes to like zeta reticulate after bidding Barney Hill,
and then suddenly the interdimensional has come. In the nineteen sixties,
now suddenly everything's interdimensional, and people just got to realize
it is not the same word, not even close to
the same world as was in seventy five, and they

(10:58):
were still talking about disclosure. There was a statement in
seventy four, seventy five, there was all going to be disclosed.
It was all coming out, and the Governor's gonna make
this big release and and Jimmy Carter got involved, and
when he came in a few years later, and this
this statement that Jimmy Carter was gonna was gonna drop it,
and it was in US World Knows, US News and
row report that there was gonna be a big announcement,

(11:21):
and that's that hasn't really changed. It's it's like every
year there's another deal that somebody's going to release, that
they're about to drop the hammer. But no, absolutely different
world altogether. And and even in seventy five, I had
no interest in UFOs, and I've said this numerous times.

Speaker 1 (11:36):
I had none.

Speaker 2 (11:37):
I was interested in sort of weird stuff. And you know,
I was at university. Didn't know what he was doing
at university, and how do you make money out of
this nonsense that that I'm being taught? So I didn't
have any interest in UFOs. So to me, it was
like more like a miracle. When I saw it, I
went wow.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
I actually saw a miracle.

Speaker 2 (11:53):
I was like, WHOA, because I never thought for a
million years, all these people were going out to this
town and seeing this, I thought, well, you know, there's
not going to nothing's gonna happen when I get out there,
and sure enough, you know, it happened.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
So to me, it was the awe of the whole.

Speaker 2 (12:05):
Thing, and that that drove me to try to figure
out who knows what's going on? That somebody has to know.
And now I'm sort of in the position where I'm
sort of a Jim Semivan guy, where I think Jim
semi Van's got the bet he says, I'll bet you
a year's salary. They haven't got a clue what's going on.
They got bodies and crafts, but beyond that, they really
don't know what's what's what's happening. So I'm sort of

(12:27):
moved into that camp now that that to me, that's
maybe the reason for the big reason for the cover
up is there's so many unanswered questions that they really
can't really give you an answer, and they don't want
to put the president in that position to be looked
like a dummy.

Speaker 3 (12:41):
I can I'm picturing you. In nineteen seventy five in university,
a young hip dude disc goes right around the corner.
You're doing your partying and stuff, and then Charlie Redstar
comes along and snaps you out of that reality and
into another one, and you forced into growing up really quick, right,

(13:02):
because that is a paradigm shift, isn't it. Yeah?

Speaker 2 (13:05):
You have you have that with all sorts of witnesses
where they can tell you exactly what day it was,
you know where the thing was, exactly what was going on,
and yet you can't remember what you had for dinner
last night. It's it's one of these mystical experiences that
just sort of turned you around and and you start
to believe in this whole idea that like for me,
the incident that that turned the whole thing around for
me was a film that was taken by a local

(13:27):
TV station. Everybody's out there trying to film, and they
caught this thing jumping from the ground to five thousand
feet in three frames of film, so one eighth of
a second they jump from the ground to five thousand
feet in the air. And when they put that film
on then it was like wow.

Speaker 3 (13:38):
You know.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
Then we went out there and but I I never
intended to see anything, and I was just so overwhelmed
by what i'd seen, and the fact that the rumor
was half the town had seen it. I thought, Oh,
just gonna sell a million books. It's like I'm going
to be famous here. I'm just going to go talk
to these people. And I went around and everybody was hiding.
Nobody wanted to talk about it. And then it took

(14:01):
me forty years to publish the book. And then when
I finally got it published, they said to me, oh,
you need a release from everybody that's in the book.
I said, are you kidding me? They wouldn't talk in
nineteen seventy five. They're all dead now, And so I
had to change all the names in the book of
the people because they didn't want to talk about it.
Then they didn't want to talk about now. Even they
had a fiftieth anniversary thing there and which is sort

(14:21):
of a little small party, and there was nobody in
the room who had actually seen anything in nineteen seventy five.
It was all sort of new people that all the
main witnesses were long dead and gone. So to me,
it's always been this amazing story. I was keep calling
it the super Bowl that I felt so honored because
that's what happened.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
They took that film. I wasn't going to go.

Speaker 2 (14:40):
We were going to go because everybody was seeing it.
And then my friends said okay, we'll go, and we
didn't go. We didn't go for three months. Then they
got this film and the guy as it was, it
was on the ground. He wasn't even a camera when
he was a film editor, because the producer had said,
you guys want to do that crazy UFO got nonsense.
You can go it on your own time. You know
you're not paying them or time. And they went out

(15:01):
there and so this guy got this film jumping off
the ground. And then I'm thinking, like years later, I'm going, hey,
that didn't happen by accident, because he was he had
the he had it in the viewfinder and it was
on the ground and it was sort of glowing up
and going back down, glowing up. And he said, the
next time it glows up, because it almost got it
the night before. He said, next time it glows up,
I'm going to shoot so it gets something on film.
And it was almost like the UFO.

Speaker 1 (15:20):
Said you ready.

Speaker 2 (15:21):
They ready to push the brigger and as he pushed,
the trigger of the thing jumped in there and I'm
going a couple years later ago that was an accident.
And then I started getting this idea that they actually
needed me out the same as you hear Linda House
story how she got involved or how Bud Hopkins got involved.
It was the same bizarre stories where they got dragged
down the rabbit hole with you know, Linda's brother phoning
her from Malsterman saying Linda, there's there's there's nukes, So

(15:44):
there's UFOs over the nukes, and then Bud Hopkins where
the guy tells them all there was these these aliens
and they were in the park. This thing landed in
the park and these ten aliens came out with bags
and little shovels and they got a scoop of dirt
and they went back into the UFO craft. I mean,
that's a total nonsense story. And and he went and
found the holes in the in the park, and you went, oh,
and suddenly he was down the rabbit hole. And they
have this ability to do these weird things to drag

(16:07):
you down where you can't get out if you tried.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
That is so interesting. And the color changes too, which
is what I'm going to dovetail off of that and
into three. I Atlas, But for a lot of different reasons.
One three Eye Atlas has captured the world's attention. This one,
you know what I mean. It wasn't something that we

(16:31):
were trying to get elevated and get people talking about it.
It happened on its own. So that tells me that
the world is paying attention to this subject. But the
other part is there was a press release today that
it changed colors three times when it was when three

(16:52):
I Atlas. What do you make of that? When three
I Atlas was first seen, when it came out from
behind Jupiter, it was red, Okay, then it turned to green.
Now it comes out from behind the Sun and it
is blue. What do you make of that?

Speaker 2 (17:10):
Well, I still think it's gonna it's not gonna be extraterrestrial.
Jimmy Blanchett had a good idea that I sort of went, oh,
that makes sense. Where he's basically saying the same thing
that happened to me is maybe they sent this thing
on purpose, That somebody flies this thing through on purpose
to get us to wonder. And and because that's what

(17:30):
happens is when everything's paranormal, that's when you get on
curiosity and until you've got on curiosity, you have no
scientific investigation. So they do these weird things to get
people's attention. So the changing of the color and stuff
like that, it may mean, yeah, sure, it may be
some sort of thing, but it doesn't make any sense
some of it, like I mean, like Abby Low. And

(17:51):
that's the part I really don't like is the UFO community.
We've always had the Rudney Dangerfield thing where you know,
as soon as somebody very famous talks about UFOs, we
sort of go along with it. And Abby's pushing this
thing and that's his field. But he's not really a
UFO guy. He's a he's an astronomer guy with with
you know, comments and meteorites and stuff like that, and

(18:11):
he needs money. So I looked it up and sure enough,
he's he's trying to fundraise off this thing. And I
worked with academics for forty years. I was on campus
for forty years, and I knew the thing where you've
got to you've got to have some sort of thing
to get grants. You can't just go on, You've got
to try to raise money. And so to me, it's
it's the disadvantage of this whole thing is that we

(18:32):
are sort of treating it like it's something very bizarre,
and it is very bizarre, even in terms of the
the the the uh, the temperature and stuff like that,
where we jump on it when it's really not a
total UFO story. And the thing would be what happens
if if it is a UFO. I mean, it's good,
the closest is going to get to one hundred and

(18:53):
sixty seven millions miles away, and so it's not going
to land, even though I was talking about the trojan
horse thing, and it's so you're you're you're getting this fear,
you're getting this interest where a very famous person talks
about UFOs and suddenly everyone jumps on the bandwagon and
everybody wants to get to get in on it. And
then I'm get very disappointed when I hear like a

(19:15):
guy like James Leacaski talks about the fact that I
guess he was giving a briefing to Congress. He was
in twenty eleven. He's in the Congressional facility. He says,
and and and read is there. Senator Reid is there,
and he says, we've got this craft and we managed
to get inside it and everybody goes, yeah, okay, and
everybody just goes on next story, and it's like, how

(19:36):
this guy's this guy's been inside the craft and he's
he's the guy that ran the asset program, high level guy,
and those kind of stories. It's kind of disappointing. They
just sort of get ignored or people don't even realize
that he said this kind of stuff. Like they asked
him like, well, what about the inside of the craft.
What's like on the inside of the craft, And he said,
if you knew the answer to that question, you'd realize
the whole rest of the book is totally primitive, and

(19:57):
you this this kind of thing. Where so the Atlas
thing is a big story in terms of whether it's
extraterrestra or whether it's not extraterrestrial, it's still going to
be very interesting because they're they're getting all this stuff
about the types of metals that are that are being
you know, in the exhaust that they can learn from
other solar systems, how those solar systems, because they believe

(20:19):
this one is is from a solar system that's way
older than us, and this based upon the speed and
all this kind of stuff that they look at so,
I mean, it's it's an extremely interesting story, but there's
really nothing you can do with it. When you when
you get Lakatski, there's something you can do with that story.
I mean, you get this guy, you put him in
front of Congress, and you find out what's really going
on when you've got a guy being inside the craft

(20:39):
compared to what could possibly be a craft one hundred
and sixty.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
Seven million miles away.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
And you even go back to the whole thing where
people get sort of wrapped up with the Heaven's Gate
if you remember that that was the whole comet thing
where the UFO was hiding behind the comet and all
this kind of stuff where to me, so it doesn't
really matter.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
And why didn't they?

Speaker 2 (20:58):
I mean, if it's Trojan Horror, so it's going to
land on the White House lawn and little aliens are
gonna go, why didn't it stop on the way in?
I mean, why is it doing this thing go around
the sun and going back out the other side.

Speaker 3 (21:07):
Well, if it was Grant, Grant, Grant, you're okay, let
me let me respond to that, even though you're the
guest by asking that question, and that's an important question.
But we are trying to doing our best try. If
it is extraterrestrial, and I believe that it is, I

(21:28):
don't think it's a natural object. That's that's my take.
But we are basing what it is doing on our knowledge, yes, right,
so that that means nothing if it is.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
So, as so as you pokemon doing the same thing,
like if it's yeah, what are we gonna do about it? Jimmy,
what are we gonna do? It's a hundred and sixty
seven million miles away. We're not gonna do a damn thing.
We're just gonna watch it fly away and everybody's gonna
speculate and what.

Speaker 3 (21:57):
But grant, here's the thing. You've been researching this for
fifty years right now. Three I Atlas is such a
phenomenon that it is turned into clickbait and is that
a bad thing? No, there is a huge amount of
interest in us. And the one basic question that we

(22:22):
have had since we started walking upright is are we alone?
You know? And so, yeah, I understand the attention it's
behavior what it is doing at a time when we
have two other comments at the same time here with
lemon and what's the other one called lemon? And I

(22:45):
can't remember the name of the other a Swan, So
we have two comments here and this object it's very,
very strange. So yeah, it's got the world's attention and
people want to know and get this answered. Don't they
deserve it? Well?

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Sure, I mean, but but how are you going to
resolve it? If you can't resolve Lakatski being inside a
UFO and briefing the Senate, I mean, what are you
going to do this craft that's out there, and it
will die the story will sort of die off because
this is the third one. This's the three Eyes, the
third interplanetary interstell craft. Yeah, interstellar, Yeah, the third one.

(23:21):
So this is not new and they say, now with
the new telescopes, we're going to be seeing these things
all the time. This is this is just almost like
the balloon thing with the where we slowed down the
capture on the radar and suddenly we see all these
Chinese balloons flying around. And so we're getting the capability
where these things are going to be common knowledge. And
to me, it's just how do you resolve it?

Speaker 1 (23:43):
What do you do with it? I mean, it's it's interesting.
And that's what Walker said to us.

Speaker 2 (23:47):
We had the Walker who was the chairman of the
board of the Institute for Defense Analysis, top military thing tank.
He said, admit it, you are just curious. Admit it,
And that is true. Ninety nine percent of the people
are just are just curious. So it does raise the
consciousness and that maybe what it's about, whether it's a
them do you know going out for joy ride or
their lost reports as Jimmy Blachett is hinting, because Jimmy

(24:10):
Blaschett talks about this December nineteenth event, So you know,
if it if it is a thing where they they
do it just to get our attention and make everybody wonder.
That's the same thing as a crop circle. Nobody's ever
resolved crop circles, but everybody says, I don't know if
it's real.

Speaker 1 (24:25):
It's not real.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
But ha, heck, do you do one of those things?
Everybody's just they're in that awe curiosity. Or how do
you mutilate a cow? I remember telling the Linda how
I said, Linda, do you know why they take every
last drop of blood out of the couch?

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Is know why?

Speaker 2 (24:35):
I said, Because so they didn't. You wouldn't you wouldn't
be investigating it. It's got to be weird, the weird
things people get attention for. And it was it was
the drones a couple months ago, then it was the Skywatcher.
Now it's this, and and it'll fade out and another
one will come in and everybody jumps. And one of
the part the other problems we have with that is
it's so easy for disinformation that they know they can
throw anything into the UFO community and people are going

(24:57):
to jump all over it and repost it and stuff
like that, and we have to take some care in
what we investigate. But my main problem with with ATLAS
is what are you going to do with it? I mean,
they're they're doing the analysis of the stuff coming off it,
with the spectrograms and spectrographs and.

Speaker 1 (25:14):
All this kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Yes, but there's not much we can do with it
in terms of the compared to the fact that we've
got crafts and people are talking about the crafts and
where the crafts are and uh, you know stories like
uh uh Sarfatti says, w'ere and I think that may
be the same as this, uh, this whole idea where
the we got inside it because Sarfatti tells the story

(25:38):
of a navy buddy of his, and he said, he's
ninety nine per cent sure this guy is actually for real.
He told him the real story friend of his, and
he said, the craft is not only alive, it will
it will not let you into the craft until you
until it decides you can come inside the craft if
your mindset is right to let you in. And then
I thought, hey, that's what La Caatski was meaning. They
we finally got in it. We got inside the crafts
is twenty eleven, and if it's a craft from forty seven,

(26:00):
they finally got inside the craft. And you start wondering,
and La Caski's coming up with another book. So that's
the kind of stuff that really interests me because you
can actually go somewhere with you. You can take in
put them in front of Congress and get them to
testify that we've got all this kind of stuff. And
it's interesting. Whether it's the drones or the skywatcher stuff
or whatever it is, it's interesting. But that's what Walker said.

(26:20):
People are just curious. They just want a story. And
it's like the attention span on the internet now is
eight seconds. It's click, click, click, we're going story story, stary, story, story,
and next story, next story, and every jumps on one
story after another, and then it fades away and the
next story comes up. With this twenty four to seven
news cycle that we're in now.

Speaker 3 (26:38):
That makes a huge amount of sense to me, and
I have no problems with that, bringing the awareness that
maybe it's just a drive by so we can start
to evolve as a species, right. And one of those
things is are we alone in the universe? Right? And
so they drive by, they hit their high beams, which

(27:00):
apparently they're doing right, and just kind of hank their
horn and continue on their way. But then suddenly that
question is answered, and maybe we can take the next
steps to evolve on this planet and not be self
absorbed into ourselves and realize that there's a whole galactic
neighborhood out there which our community is always known, but

(27:22):
I'm talking about the other eight and a half billion
people on this planet.

Speaker 2 (27:26):
But to me, like when I saw my first two UFOs,
I knew, and I've never tried to prove UFOs. I
always say to people, don't try to prove UFOs because
the skeptics are never going to accept anything you say,
the only thing that's going to solve it is if
you go down to the river, Jimmy and stand there
long enough, all these skeptics bodies will float by if
science advances one funeral out of time.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
And that's what we're trying to do.

Speaker 2 (27:48):
And I said to the telepathy people when I first
interviewed Ki Dickens before she was famous, I said, please
don't go down the road trying to prove this kidneys
kids are telepalthing. Please don't do that because it's never
going to happen. They're gonna have one thing after another
and you're gonna spend eighty years and you're still gonna
be trying to prove to people. Let's move on. Yeah,
these kids can do this, Now, what's the potential? Can

(28:08):
they really speak languages foreign languages and stuff like that?
And so the the Atlases is extremely interesting story, but
again it's a curiosity story that it raises consciousness, and
I think that's what the phenomenon is doing. My thing
is that, then again that's built on present knowledge that
they have these big shoe spacecrafts and they come and

(28:29):
they take them ten years to get here or whatever.
When all the material I've seen in the last ten years.
All indicates Tim Taylor hinted to me, Ron Pandolfhi hints this,
and Semivan hints this. This idea that they're not flying
here from another star system. They pop in and they
pop out. They can they can appear. And I wrote
the book UFO Skypilots, where have thirty six people who

(28:51):
claim they've flown the craft, and they all say the
same thing. You can go from here to there instantaneously.
So the idea you're going to have, you know, some
sort of rock and even again, you go back to
the reflection that we go back to nineteen fifty seven
and people won't even know this story. And you see
how these stories die out. Singer, who was the astronomical
guy for President Eisenhower, believed that Phoebos was hollow and

(29:13):
that it was inhabited and he's seriously believed. This is
the advisor to the president of the United States. And
yet how many people know that story that just faded
out and went away, And nobody really believes Phobos is,
you know, inhabited anymore. And we just sort of jumped
from one story to another.

Speaker 3 (29:29):
We never went we never you know, that's I'm glad
you brought that up. That Singer's story, and it's a
very interesting thing. But it's the other side of the
Phobos story that is bizarre. One. There is obviously something
on Phobos, right that monol it, there's something there. It's

(29:52):
been photographed enough, buzz Aldrin, you know, wearing his Phobos
T shirts. Then Russia sending the probes out, and then
and the craft comes in and interrupts their thing, and
that so Singer was fifty seven. The Phobos story continued

(30:12):
independently of what Singer had said earlier about nobody's been
back to Phobos. I find that real? Or have we?
And we just don't know. But but Phobos is an anomaly.
You would think that we would, we'd be there.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
It's going in the wrong direction, it's rotating in the
wrong direction, and it's the same sort of thing as
the that That's where you start to go into this
trickster thing. Is this is this random It's just just something,
some random thing that's happening, or is some intelligence playing
these games to raise consciousness so they're not going to
land on the White House lawn and give us a
left brain lecture and tell us how to live our lives.
They want to do these weird things to drag you

(30:50):
down these rabbit holes, and everybody's trying to figure out,
like the medals, like what do you You come a
thousand light years and you drop the little pieces of
metal about the size of your fingernail, and it's like,
what are you doing. It's like, come on, this is
the this is being done on purpose. You don't come
that far. And then little pieces start falling off the
flying saucer. In fact, that was the first cry. The
first story before Kenneth Arnold was the Morey Island thing,
where you know in this story. Now we've heard numerous

(31:12):
times where the craft is there, looks like it's in
trouble and suddenly explodes and there's metal raining down on
everybody and stuff like that. And the more I look
at these stories, the more I go where Tim Taylor says.

Speaker 1 (31:21):
This is gifted, this is all.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
This is all orchestrated, like a lot of this stuff
that's that's happening in order to get us to realize
we're not the only ones in the universe, and there's
more than the material world. It's a very very bizarre world.
And in fifty years, I got my main lesson whatever
this phenomena is. It just gets weirder and more complex
and more complex. And that's what happens. The farther you
go out into the galaxy, the bigger it gets. It

(31:45):
was like one hundred thousand, there was one hundred one
hundred billion galaxies, and then twenty sixteen suddenly they changed says,
oh no, there's two trillion. They didn't even apologize. There
are quite twenty times they just change it, you know,
and now they say, now I heard the other day
three trillion, and keeps going. Or if you go down, down,
down into the you know, the quantum stuff, it gets
really weird. And then you get now we have this

(32:07):
idea that there's not even solid electrons or nucleus, it's
all waves inside wave fields and stuff like that. And
that's what Jim Semiban said, that that the fifty three
percent of people in the United States are reading at
a Grade six level. And he said, and then you
get this whole thing about quantum physics, and there may
not be any out there out there. It all maybe
just feelds and waves and stuff like that. There's no

(32:28):
physical universe. And he said and you're gonna drop this
stuff on these people can't read. Come on, this is crazy,
and that's that's where's the thing.

Speaker 3 (32:35):
Here's the thing with that. It reminds me. Do you
remember in the seventies there was a trend people do
not send me email? All right. There was a trend
in the seventies where parents were throwing their babies into
pools to learn to swim on their own. Oh yeah,
you remember that. Maybe that's what ET's doing with us, right,

(32:57):
doing a drive by, but letting us mature and grow
up on our own. And maybe you know what I mean,
You just need that carrot out there. You don't need
the stick to hit somebody over the head, which is
what sometimes you just need to dangle the carrot.

Speaker 2 (33:16):
Yeah, And it's working because you you have more and
more people interested in this bizarre stuff and more and
more scientists coming on board, and the consciousness rises. Because
when I wrote this article called the sixty four Reasons,
I actually thought that was going to happen, you know,
the stock marker melt down. And then what happened in
twenty seventeen, whether it was the intelligence that was raising
the consciousness or where there was the government leaking stuff.
But in twenty seventeen, I mean, did the stock market

(33:38):
melt down? No, did anybody jump up a bridge? No,
everybody's going I knew it. I know there's UFOs. And
now you could even say they're talking about this catastrophic disclosure.
What could be catastrophic? I mean you say that we
have bodies and crafts aready's going to go? Yeah, we
knew that right now.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Where they're from.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
It's like people know that we're building this thing up
and we don't realize that the thing is moving along
that we are. The consciousness is rising. It's almost like
that thing in Hollywood. As long as they spell your
name right. So as long as we're talking, you and
I talk, and more people are talking. Because the prime
example of that you see things change is you take
the United States of America in twenty fifteen. You take

(34:13):
the United States of America in twenty twenty five, and
whether you're on one side of this debate or the
other side of the bait we think it's good or bad,
you tell me the United States of America is the
same as it was in twenty fifteen.

Speaker 1 (34:23):
It's not even close, completely different country.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
And all that was was people talking raising consciousness, the
different types of consciousness, and the whole United States change
is no longer the United States of America.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
It's like a like a whatever, you know, and you.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
See that that change, and that's this idea that we're
creating reality that this idea about. You know, take a
positive attitude and stuff like that. That you create positively,
you're going to get a better world. And if everybody's
negative and fighting like a football team and nobody wants
to run the play and nobody wants to listen to
the coach, I mean, you're not going to win.

Speaker 1 (34:53):
You got to all play together.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
And I think is what they're trying to do is
they're trying to get us so curious to wonder what's this?
What this thing flying through the sky, what are the drones,
what are the the you know the sky? You have
this skywatcher stuff, all that kind of stuff, like the
skywatcher stuff. It was nine different types of objects, all
different objects. It's like, oh, let's show him this now.
And then the latest one was this. I laughed, Was

(35:16):
there a.

Speaker 1 (35:16):
Triangle or no? The square, the red square in the sky?
I said, you watch me.

Speaker 2 (35:20):
All sorts of people were reporting red squares in the
sky now, and that's what they're doing. They just try
this one. Now, let's move it to ear the fireballs
and then the Foo fighters and the Dampski crafts and
the crafts all change.

Speaker 1 (35:31):
And that's the other thing, Lakatski said.

Speaker 2 (35:32):
And there's two hundred and fifty thousand sightings, so Lakatski said,
and he said it was very strange. It was like
driving down a freeware down a street and every car
was different. And I heard him say that, I went wow,
and I realized that the people who'd flown the craft,
everybody touched the craft. The craft was alive. Everybody touched
the craft, but nobody touched the same thing. Chris Botzo
put his hand on a beehive, some people used the joystick,

(35:55):
some people put their hand on a panel, some people
put their hand on the wall. And I thought, what's
the chances the thirty six people all touch something different?
And it's this sort of idea that to me, it's
this game thing, this trickster thing where they're trying to
teach us. And that's the way you teach people through
curiosity and not through fear, because fear you go in
you say we're here to bring your freedom of democracy

(36:15):
Jesus and McDonald's, and five minutes later they're pointing guns
and telling you get the heck out of our country.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Who do you think you are?

Speaker 2 (36:21):
And that's what I think they're doing, and that even
Gary Nolan will talk about that. He says, I'm not
interested in the ninety five percent that falls within the
Bell curve. I'm interested in the five percent to fall
outside the Bell curve. That's what in the Bell prices
are And that's what we got to do is look
at that paranormal phenomena wherever it's coming from, whoever's causing it,
that there is a scientific advantages to be looking at.

(36:43):
Why does this not fit? Why are these UFOs popping in,
popping out?

Speaker 3 (36:46):
You know?

Speaker 1 (36:47):
Why is this atlas lighting up?

Speaker 2 (36:49):
And that sort of stuff that gets the curiosity going,
and it gets people talking. And the more people talk,
it doesn't matter where they're saying bad things, good things,
as long as they're talking, which is happening with the Atlas,
the consciousness will rise and more people are talking about it.
And because you know what, you've probably had the same thing.
You talk about weird stuff and you go to our
cocktail party and someone comes up and asks you about UFOs,
And then five minutes later you're talking to UFOs and

(37:10):
you see everybody in the room has moved to the
other side of the room. And now you have this
situation where people come to me. And how many people
came to me and said, hey, you're in the UFOs. Yeah,
what's those new Jersey drones? And everybody had heard about
the news Jersey drones. They didn't know what it was,
but it came to me and asked me about thee
and they would never have talked to me about UFOs.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
But that's the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
It's this curiosity element that gets people going, and until
there's there's a problem to be solved or awe on,
curiosity that's what gets people going. And Einstein said that
they all said that where you know, Max Plank was
told don't go into physics in eighteen seventy four, don't
go into physics. You know, when the develop price for
quantum physics, don't go into physics. We've discovered everything. There's

(37:50):
nothing to do, and you know, we've got this attitude
we've got it all figured out. But when you're in
the world that you and I are in And when
the more you look at it, you realize what they
told me at least three times in my twenty seven
high dose psilocybin sessions, they said, you think you know
what's going on, you haven't got a clue. So told
me directly, you have not got a clue what's going on.

(38:11):
And that's what I think is going to be very
very complex. Whatever this is, the world gets grander, more magnificent,
more strange, more complex. And that's it's almost like the
idea of the god.

Speaker 1 (38:21):
Of the gaps.

Speaker 2 (38:22):
Well, the gaps is getting a lot bigger all the time,
every time you look. And all science is doing is
all science is doing is describing. They can tell you
they're explaining things. They aren't explaining anything. They're describing. It's
like Moses goes down to the Red Sea with his staff.
He taps, taps the water, the water opens up, the
wind comes up, and people walk through, and then he
taps his stick, you know, and you say that nice story,
you know, fantastic story. Now do the trick and ever

(38:44):
he's describing that this happens, this happens, the cell bills,
the divide and this happens.

Speaker 1 (38:48):
This happens.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
They're not explaining how it happens. They're just describing how
it happens, how somebody else, whether it's God, some force,
or something, is putting this stuff together. Science is not
explaining anything, it's just describing.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
That's well, all you have to do.

Speaker 3 (39:01):
Yeah, all you have to do is see something. You
don't have to know how it operates, but you just
need the idea put in your head and then you
can go and figure it out later. I mean, so
many great inventions. The airplane. You know, you watch birds
and the next thing you know, I was at you
just brought up something really funny. I was at a

(39:21):
Halloween party last week, private affair with this chef. It
was amazing, and I'm sitting at a table with strangers. Well,
I've got a couple of friends with me that I
went to the party with, but I've got like five
or six people with me that I've never met before.
And somebody at the table said, okay, so what do

(39:43):
you do and what do you do? What do you
point at me? And I said, I'm a radio and
TV host, Oh do you what do you do? I
don't want to say this, but I will I cover
UFOs and conspiracies? And the lady sitting a cross for me,
who I've never met, looks dead at me. Grant goes

(40:04):
just like this, so what do you think about the
United Space Federation? Are we ever going to be a
part of it? And I went, holy, holy crap? Now
and I so where did she get this star trek?
All right? But her interest in this subject? Is it possible?

(40:30):
Is it this? Are we in communication with? And she
had a million questions in a row. She never she
doesn't know who I am and what it's for me.
It's a really good barometer because this is a random person, right,
somebody I've never met. This is a pretty good measurement
of how people are starting to take this pretty serious.

(40:52):
I was, I was very happy and dude, her questions.
She was faster than Grant Cameron. All right.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Imagine even even the idea of consciousness, people say we're
not really getting anywhere. People get all upset. I say, you,
you got to realize we're making great headways. You can
go to China, you can go to Africa, you can
go anywhere in the world, and say, Skinwalker Ranch.

Speaker 1 (41:12):
Yeah know what that is? Every fifty one I know
what that is, near death experience. I know what that is.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
They may not agree with it, but they know what
it is. And that you were fifty years ago, you
would not have known what that kind of stuff is.
And now that's the thing is the consciousness is there
and the new generation doesn't even question it. Yeah, oh
sure there's aliens and stuff like that, and they will
pick up on this. That's what Max Plank said. Your you,
you advance not by connising your opponent.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
He's wrong.

Speaker 2 (41:34):
You advance when your opponent dies. The new generation is
not offended with the idea.

Speaker 3 (41:39):
Well, and how how did this happen? Is it?

Speaker 1 (41:47):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (41:49):
Is it the media? Is it television? Is it TV shows?
And is it ancient aliens? Is it the Marvel Disney
products that are coming? You know? It is that? That
is it their general ration in general where they're fundamental
change in the DNA where they just think a little
bit different. What is it about that My daughter's thirty

(42:11):
years old and I hang out with her friends, and well,
when she allows me to hang out with her friends,
I should say, but wow, this group, I mean, they
are all they know, all the names, they know. Grant Cameron,
you know what I mean, and they they their interests

(42:32):
and their knowledge is pretty dang solid. And I have
the feeling that was going on way before twenty and seventeen.
Twenty seventeen was a good you know, good catalyst, good
progenitor for a lot of these people with interest. But
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (42:49):
The big thing I think is is television and now
the Internet. So television, you know, I've written a lot
of articles about the early days where they were influencing
well this to do UFO documentary and and Emmenager with
his being given this holm in their first base film
and all this kind of stuff. That what happens is
that like if you approach a skeptic face to face,

(43:11):
they'll they'll just tell you, you know, take five steps
back and leave me alone. But if you put on TV,
then he goes, ah, this is stupid. Heard about the
stupid alien show. I'm gonna watch this thing. This is stupid,
and you watch it. He doesn't realized getting programmed. And
now you remember back Chase Brand in twenty twelve, Chase
Brandon came out, whatever happened that job, whatever happened to
Chase Brand. Yeah, somebody said, that's not even his real name.

(43:32):
That's why I heard latest latest story. He was so
through another UFO dot book in twenty fourteen, and he
never did it. He just disappeared and nobody knows where
he is. But that was his job, he said, that
was my job. So you know, if you heard Jimmy
Church is doing a documentary or a movie and you're
going to talk about the CIA. Hey, Jimmy error, I've
been to the CI. You're doing that UFO doc. Marn Hey,

(43:53):
you would like to go to the CI. We'd like
to go for a tour. And they take them around
and they walk beside you and they lead you. So
that's the old idea. And instead of jim Simmy Van said,
we don't kill anybody anymore. If we if we want
you dead, you would have been dead ten years ago,
as we told Chris Bletzel. And so the idea is
you get you get on the side of the people.
And I'm sure the intelligence agencies are all over it
the Internet and TV. That's the influence. How they they

(44:16):
want to get ahead of the story. It's not they
want to try to block it. They're trying to get
ahead of control the story because they know eventually it's
going to come out.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
They want to be in front.

Speaker 2 (44:23):
They don't want to be caught, you know, with you know,
some disclosure thing where they can't control it. So I'm
sure they're busy, very carefully orchestrating what happens in Hollywood
and on the internet.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
Chase Brandon had amazing hair, remember that. Remember that?

Speaker 1 (44:39):
Yeah, he had a good voice too. He had a very.

Speaker 3 (44:44):
He was He was like an AI generated talking head
for the c I A you know, you know what
I mean. He was perfect. He was good looking, smart, intelligent.

Speaker 2 (44:57):
And the book he wrote, that book, the Chris Phos Conundrum,
and he said he had been reviewed I think eight
times by the CIA. And then he said, if you
want a good read, read the book. If you want
to learn something, read between the lines.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
Yeah, well didn't, okay. So Chase Brandon, allegedly, let's just
go with allegedly was a CIA employee, did various things
over the years. But he came on to the UFO
scene from the CIA and was doing a lot of stuff.

(45:31):
He was doing the news, he'd do this he do
and writing books. Well, so Chase Brandon, this is for
the audience that may have missed this and he's a
good rabbit hole to jump down if you can find
some of this stuff out there. But so he's on
the verge of releasing a book, and his publisher was

(45:52):
saying that the CIA kept editing the book, eliminating chapters,
eliminating pages, this, and the book is delayed and delayed
and delayed. And who knows if any of that was true?
I don't know, But how do we know what is
missing from the book when it was finally published. But

(46:13):
that was a that was a crazy, crazy period for youuthology,
wasn't it the Chase Brandon era.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah, And he basically described this fact that that this
is what we're doing, This is this is how, this
is how it's done. You know, if you want, if
you saved the world your spy and you save the
world from nuclear disaster, you want to write your book. Okay, fine,
you know you change the names, you change the dates,
and sure you can write your thing.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
You write it in fiction. You fictionalize the whole thing.
And but you got to do that.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
If you're an intelligence agency, you've got to stay on
top of the thing. And they've done this when people,
you know, they sort of think that they can take
whistleblowers and use their stuff or whatever. And I say,
you got to realize, these guys have been doing this
since World War Two. These guys know exactly what they're doing.
You'd better be careful with with what you're doing because
these guys know exactly how to walk around anybody and
get you to do what they want you to do.

(47:00):
It's it's a pretty major organization to try to take on.
They know exactly how to you know, psychology, and how
how to manipulate with magicians. They study the magicians, how
to do sleight of hand, to trick people and stuff
like that.

Speaker 1 (47:13):
It's all about.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
Controlling people to get your message out and and you know,
kill the message from Russia and China and stuff like that.
But well, yeah, Jase Breman was one of many.

Speaker 3 (47:24):
But we have an opportunity right now to do just that.
So let me let's speculate for a second. All right,
let's assume that all of the data collected on three
i AT lists proves that it's not natural. Okay, all

(47:49):
of the data, every type of sensor, telescope imaging, different
types of imaging, right spectra analysis, is that it is
not natural. It's an artificial object and it just whizzed
by our planet. All right, that's that's it. We have

(48:09):
determined it's not natural. Do they reveal that? And if
they do, how do they reveal it? How do they
say it?

Speaker 2 (48:23):
No, they're they're never going to make that announcement. I mean,
you may get low level guys. They'll send low level
guys have to tell you that. But the high level story, uh,
you know.

Speaker 3 (48:33):
Does it say anything. NASSA doesn't anything. S A doesn't
say anything.

Speaker 2 (48:37):
But they may not even be in the loop. They
may they may not be in the loop. I mean,
you know, in terms of making like I remember when
I was at university, you could not make a statement
if you're not in public affairs.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
You could not talk to the newspaper.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
You couldn't say I'm at the universe, I'm at the
University of Mata Totoba and this is what we're doing
or whatever. I mean that you'd be fired on the spot.
So it's the the idea that you know, they have
all these these these people whose job it is to
spin the story and to put stories out and put
five stories out at the same time and stuff like that.
And if somebody does come forward a high level official.
What you basically do is just put a second person

(49:09):
in there, tells the same story with different people and
misses it up the same as they did with me
with Linda Howe with the home in their first base.
I said, Bob Amager told me was May nineteen seventy one,
and Linda said, oh no, no. Richard Doty said it
was nineteen sixty four, and it's like, no, it's Eving one.
And then suddenly Linda and I are sort of arguing
about what data it is, and then the intelligence agencies
are just laughing. They know exactly how to move a

(49:31):
story and how to control a story that unless the
you know, you get some president or somebody coming. But
this stuff is so highly classified and they've covered it
up since nineteen forty seven. And I believe it's a a.
I believe Trump's running the show. And everybody said Trump's
Trump's the guy that's going to disclose and the whole thing.
If Semivan's right, it's a p It's a presidential emergency

(49:51):
action document where the president just announces we're going to
do this, and only these people get in on the program,
and Congress does never right to know and all this
kind of stuff and there's been twenty of them and
none has ever been declassified, and it's all continuity of
government stuff.

Speaker 3 (50:03):
And but okay, so let me let me just play
Devil's advocate here. If it is uh an interstellar craft,
a piece of a craft, it's something not natural or
a pro under intelligent control, whatever it is, but it
it splits what is the secrecy applied to that? Isn't

(50:31):
it our right, our fundamental right as earthlings to know
if that's et or not, I mean yours? Why keep
that a secret? What's what's the national security interest in that?

Speaker 2 (50:44):
Well, because you're in the you live in the United
States of America, where you got a trillion dollar events budget,
and they're running the show, and they are not going
to give up. We said, worker said this, you're just curious.
Admit your admit you're curious. That's all you You're just curious.
You have no reason to know. Why should we change
the rules and regulations to satisfy your curiosity. That's what
he told us. And that's the whole deal is they

(51:05):
don't care. I mean, they don't care. If you want
to know, we're running the show here. We got bags
full of money, and we're going to run this program.
Even if they're not getting anywhere with the program, they're
still going to keep control of the program.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Because it's all about power.

Speaker 2 (51:18):
It's about how many people are working under you, how
much money is you and your budget and stuff like that,
and if you got control, you're not going to Like
when the Air Force came along the Navy, the story
was always that the Navy ran the program, that they
were the actual guy was in the Air Force. And
the idea behind that was that nineteen forty six, when
it started, there was no US Air Force, so the
Navy had all the research funds. So the Air Force

(51:39):
comes along and says, oh, the UFOs, that's ours all
that stuff, and I go get lost. It's our money.
You're not taking the money from us. And they stole
the A tip money. How they stole the money, Remember
how they grabbed the money and ran off of it.
And because they didn't identify the program close enough. And
that's what's about. It's all this fighting for money that
inside the government. It's it's it's power and the people

(52:02):
who have it have have it at this such an
extreme level. Down below you may not have anybody with
any sort of clearance to actually, you know, when you
get the head of the intelligence for a joint cheese
of staff and they tell they hang up and say
leave this, leave leave this alone, and hang up the
phone on the guy. And then you go and tell
the guy you you talk and you're gonna lose a
star and you're not going to get the Defense Intelligence

(52:23):
Agency job, and stuff like that. And they can make
anybody afraid. Take a look at what's happening in Congress now,
everybody's afraid. Nobody's doing anything. It's very easy to if
you've got the power to get get your way and
manipulate people who just want a job and they want
to they want to stay above water and they don't
want to make any waves and stuff like that.

Speaker 3 (52:42):
Where well, wouldn't wouldn't God, I love having conversations with
you so much fun is is? Wouldn't it benefit those
money grubbing, power hungry military industrial complex want to be peoples?

(53:02):
Would it benefit them to say that it is extraterrestrial
because then you have the support of the country and
the world to go and do all those things. If
NASA would benefit from this, the ESA would benefit from this,
The Artemis program and every the military. It just seems

(53:25):
fast awkwards. Although I agree with you why they would
keep it.

Speaker 2 (53:30):
But if you make that announcement, then Artemis and the
the guys that are doing the programs for Like there
was a question why a you're building still tanks, you know,
like the old idea, you know, try to stop them
from building the Abrams tank tanks. But no, thanks, we
don't want anymore. And it kept building because you get
this thing going, and every Congressman and senator has got

(53:50):
his hand in the pot. And you're not going to
shut down the factory of ten thousand people in your district.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
Somebody else can shut their.

Speaker 3 (53:55):
Does That's right, that's right.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
And it's so it's this sort of this battle of power,
and and the people that control it will say, Jimmy,
Jimmy doesn't need to know what's he going to help.

Speaker 1 (54:09):
They'll try to.

Speaker 2 (54:09):
If they find out you've got something, they'll come and
give you a national security order and and take over
your program or your your invention or whatever it is.

Speaker 1 (54:17):
Uh, they'll do that kind of stuff. But in terms of.

Speaker 2 (54:20):
Uh advancing the whole thing, they think they can they
can do it.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
And even if they can't.

Speaker 2 (54:25):
Their their budget is still there and they're not gonna
shut their budget down too for the curiosity of the
American people. And uh that that's a major problem. That's
what they told Bush. That's what supposedly Bush tolds Carter.
Curiosity on part of the president is not sufficient need
to know. And that's what Walker told us the same thing.
This thing about curiosity is that and and if if
it's true, like you're saying extra trust or why they

(54:46):
because I would say the reason they're not saying it's
extra trustal And you can see they'll make all sorts
of statements. Barack Obama says, yeah, we got the videos.
Yeah it's real, but we don't know what's going on
where they're from. And I think that they have great
resis servation. Jim Simmivan says, no, he doesn't believe it.
Jack said Jack uh beal A says he doesn't believe it.
And this is his idea. It may not be extraterrestrial.

(55:08):
So you're not going to go out on a limb
and say ex extra treustrial because you're going to face
a million and one questions. Unless you're absolutely sure what's
going on, You're not going to make a statement. So
to keep using these weasel words and say, there's no
evidence that that's extra trustrial. Okay, is there any evidence
that it's non human, that it's not us because they've
got the crafts, the bodies, all this kind of stuff.

(55:29):
And the Semivan says, because you got crafts and bodies
doesn't mean you know where it's coming from, and that
would come.

Speaker 3 (55:36):
To the true. That's true. But here's the here's the
here's for me. One of the most important points. NASA
astronomers universities went out of their way early on to
say that three I atlas was a comment. It's a comment.

(55:57):
It's a comment. It's a comment. Well, it's anything but
a comment. If I can take with everything that it
has shown us, it's not a comment. We have two
comments in the sky right now. You can walk outside
and look and see what a comment looks like. And
and so, but hear me out, hear me, hear me out,

(56:18):
hear me out. Now the information that is coming forward
is now everything but a comment. Right they're talking about this.
It could be this, it could be this, it could
be so common. They put all their money on the
table just thinking that creating that dogma is enough to
take the interest and the curiosity off of this object.

(56:40):
People aren't talking about Swan or Lemon. We have two
comments in the sky. I go out every night after
the show, olik there, you know, and it's it's amazing
to see, right, But nobody's talking about Lemon or Swan.
They're talking about three I Atlas. And I can tell
you this, it ain't a comment. I don't know what
it is, but it's not a comment.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (57:03):
But but if you're if you're a high level uh
AS scientist at NASA, spent your whole career, you're going
to step out and say, oh, I think it's extraterrestrial.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
You're gone.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
You're It's like the old thing where where hell put
Off was asked. You know, do you do you think
you could name the twelve people that are running the program? Yeah? Yes,
as a story goes, yeah, I could probably guess pretty good.
And why didn't you do it? Well, because you'd go
to New York Times publish an article. I'd have to
deny it and then everybody would stop talking to me.
And that would the same thing would happen if you

(57:34):
were at a high level scientist in the government and
you come out and said this, this is an extraterrestrial
I mean, every stops talking to you. You know, you're
not going to get a budget anymore. You've got to
you got to go in front of committees to get budgets.
They're going to go, aren't you the crazy guy with
the comment you know what the you think that thing
was an extraterrestrial? And it's this this thing that always
works against this is this the the attitude. And that's

(57:55):
why I say, when when this thing finally gets disclosed,
because there's always just saying the really people are going
to jump off bridges. I say, no, no, this is
going to be very spiritual this thing. The rygious people
aren't going to jump off the bridge. It's going to
be the people who spent sixty thousand dollars a year
to go to m I T or He's going to
go are you kidding me? I spent sixty thousand dollars
a year to go to MIT and you're telling me
it's all garbage, all that stuff they were teaching me.

Speaker 1 (58:17):
Those are the guys.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
The scientists are going to be the guy's fighting over
the CINAI pills. Because their worldview is going to be shattered,
this idea that it's just a material.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
World and you know, we're alone in the universe and
stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
That's the guys that hope, you know, hopefully for them,
they die before it gets disclosed, because it's it's if
you get your whole career and you spend your whole
career teaching something and suddenly it gets blown out of
the sky. I mean, you feel like, you know, you
ruin your life, you wasted your life. So it's it's
that stepping out is very dangerous and and and Abby

(58:49):
Lope can do it because he's he's a famous guy,
but you're not going to get many other guys, uh
that are that are going to do it. It's like
the idea where they say you're gonna go into UFOs
and they always say get tenure them getting to UFO.

Speaker 3 (58:59):
Yeah, that's true. That's true. That's true. But here's the
other part about that. It's a numbers game. And it's
like this, the skeptics and debunkers, the agnostic scientists and
astrophysicists and astronomers out there that want to stay in
their lane, they their numbers are just in the thousands.

(59:26):
There's eight and a half billion people on this planet.
That that's that's where the influence comes from. That's that
that those those out there that are narrow minded, they're
in the thousands, not in that There isn't one hundred
thousand astronomers on this planet. Here's a couple thousand astronomers.

(59:47):
You know how many astrophysicists professional are on this planet
right now, it's in the thousands.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
It's a very very small phenomena. That's why the phenomena
is going ground up. They're showing people on the street
and people are talking about it. The more people talk
about it, the more it gets known. So now all
these subjects, you know, Area fifty one, all this kind
of stuff, it's known all around the world. And that's
what they're doing, is they're raising consciousness to get us
to that point. And they don't have to convince the
top people they're going to die out. And the new

(01:00:17):
generation is I mean, how many young kids would say
there are new UFOs. I mean it used to be
like zero zero, yeah, before you could actually step out
now and that's what Alessando said. You can now talk
about UFOs in the in the in the halls of
the Pentagon. It's sort of changed the whole attitude. And
again that's in part to Jimmy Semiban, who knew that

(01:00:37):
this had to happen. And he had a background just
like Brandon. There's pictures of him with the Voice of
America woman that ran Voice of America stuff like that.
He was an English background. And you know, he said,
he went to all those three letter agencies. He said,
you guys can't get it out. We're going to get
it out. We're not going to release classify material, but
we're going to drop this thing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
And they all said, yeah, okay, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
As long as I have to do it, you go
ahead it and and then he's I believe he was
the guy behind the New York Times article because the
day Loui Alzando resigned in the morning, in the afternoon,
Lesty Kane was there, Loui Alissando was there, Jim Semivan
was there, how put Off was there, and that's when
they had the meeting with Loui Alzando. And it was
to me it was all sort of planned beforehand, and
so Jim Semivan pushed that thing. And he complains because

(01:01:20):
he you know, he had this experience and and so
what the phenomena is doing is they give you an
experience where you can't back out of it. So Jim
Semivan has the experience with the beings in his room,
he doesn't really want to talk about it. He's all
upset they violated my human rights. And then you wonder like, well,
you see, I did you ask permission every time you
stole something from another country or whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
And you look at it and you see the.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
Phenomena scared the living daylights out of him, and he
thinks it's a bad experience. I say, it's one of
the top ten UFO cases of all time.

Speaker 3 (01:01:46):
Him and his wife.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Yeah, and and and the thing is he's taught one
of the top ten cases in the world of my
fifty years. And the reason it is is because if
he had not had the experience with the beings in
his room that violated his human rights, would not had
to go. Because Jim Semivan went around and told the
three letter agencies, we're dropping this thing. We're going to disclose,
and that's when it all started to take place. So
that's what the phenomena is doing, is motivating certain people

(01:02:09):
and you talk, you have your show. I have my
show and all this sort of stuff, and it's just growing, growing, growing,
and the consciousness is rising. People don't realize. And seventy five,
none of this was being discussed. It was just simple
extraterrestrials flying sauces, landing on the ground and stuff like that.
And now it's a big thing where everybody in the
world seems to stut it and they may not talk
about it, but the consciousness is there where people know

(01:02:32):
what we're talking about.

Speaker 3 (01:02:32):
Now, thank you so Much's stay right there, stay right there,
we're going to take our break. Grant, We'll be right back.
This is Fade to Black. I am your host, Jimmy Church.
Stay with us. We'll be right back after this short break.

(01:03:16):
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(01:04:30):
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Here at machupch you with Brian Forster and Hidden Ink
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twenty six. What's going on?

Speaker 4 (01:06:59):
Okay, November twenty six, We're going to have our major
tour of Peru and Bolivia, either a pre or post
tour of Parakas and Nasca on the coast, and then
after that six days.

Speaker 3 (01:07:12):
In Easter Island bucket list Easter Island. Come join Brian
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(01:08:24):
back fad to Black. I am your host, Jimmy Schirch. Tonight,
Grant Cameron is with us talking about three Eye Atlas.
And there's one thing that nobody is talking about. Three
Eye Atlas is going to be tracked, and it is visible,
It is self illuminated, and we're going to be watching

(01:08:44):
it for a long time. What if it changes course
on its own, no star, no planet Jupiter around it? Right?
What if what if it just takes a turn out
there and heads off to another direction? What I mean,
what if something crazy like that goes down? We're going

(01:09:07):
to be watching. The thing is, if it does do that,
would we be told there's a lot of amateur astronomers
with telescopes in their backyards and they're going to be
watching this to the best of their abilities and imaging it.
And what if a bunch of amateur astronomers catch something strange.

(01:09:31):
It's one thing to get information from the James Webb
Space Telescope or NASER, the ESA or different universities. There's
all kinds of terrestrial telescopes around the world, and depending
on them for information is one thing. But an amateur
astronomer or thousands of them catching something and witnessing it,

(01:09:57):
then we have that too. We the support of the
civilian world, don't we grant everybody is watching this object?

Speaker 1 (01:10:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:10:07):
Yeah, it would, it would be uh pretty interesting. It's
got to come from the bottom, though, if it comes
from the top. You know what happened to the face
on Mars I made that disappear?

Speaker 3 (01:10:16):
Yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure. It's such a great time,
it is. This is totally exciting. I'm I'm I'm going
on the et side though. I think it's I don't
think that the object is natural. I just I go
with my gut on this. All of the clickbait information

(01:10:38):
that is out there right now. Uh, and I know
that you see the same things that I do. It's
dispensing probes, you know, it's it's doing it. All of this,
it's communicating, it's it's it's beaming signals. All of this
is clickbait.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
It could intelligence or counter intelligence.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
What do you make of that, the amount of clickbait
and information that's that's that's making its way into the public.

Speaker 2 (01:11:09):
Yeah, it's either you know, intelligence making it sound so
stupid that it backs people away from the story, or
somebody's got nothing better to do, or it's like the
let's see if we can get away with this story,
if we can get some clicks on it, if we
these crazy people believe this stuff, let's uh, let's hype
it up and really, you know, make it And some
of the stuff I actually got taken by one video
camera to was it had done do with UFOs. But

(01:11:31):
I was really surprised when I found out this was
a fake video.

Speaker 1 (01:11:34):
I was like, whoa.

Speaker 2 (01:11:34):
It's like, it's just incredible what you can do now
where the people are. Let's see how much we can
get away with it, Greg make a better video than you.
I can get more clicks on my story than you.
And and it's that's it's a dangerous time in terms
of the everybody's got a New York Times in front
of them, they can they can put on whatever they want.
And it's how do you know what to believe what

(01:11:56):
not to believe?

Speaker 3 (01:11:57):
Well, you brought up hovy Lobe earlier. And what impresses
me about AVI is he is data driven. He doesn't
comment on anything that isn't supported by data. You're not
going to get comments from him about reptilians or the

(01:12:17):
grays or you know what I mean, that's not going
to come from AVI. But if it's supported by data,
and he has a way of applying data to his research,
that's what he does. It's way beyond my scope of things.
But he is data driven. He's not sensational with this stuff.

(01:12:40):
When you read his book Extraterrestrial, a point after point
after point based on data is how he came to
his conclusions about oh mumu. And he's doing the same
thing right now with three I Atlas, purely data driven.
That has to bother the establishment somewhat.

Speaker 1 (01:13:00):
You think, well SETI people would say the same thing.
They're data driven.

Speaker 2 (01:13:04):
It's like, you know, it's it's it's my only objection
about the whole thing is it's really not a u
a ufol thing that we can really analyze when we've
got stories like Lakatski story, and you know some of
the stuff that you know, David Grush is putting out
where that just sort of slips under the radar. And uh,
it's it's for whatever reason, I'm just looking for the answer.

(01:13:26):
I mean, I'm getting old. I don't have too many
more years and uh and I think I sort of
know what's going on, but in terms of uh, you know,
I'd like to see something being resolved in terms of
the government issue.

Speaker 3 (01:13:39):
Well, when we look at different statements and Lakatski, you know,
I have his book is and his his stuff that
he says pretty right, and and David Grush and others, Uh,
there're certainly not the first, but they uh, they lack.

(01:14:01):
Here's the only issue that I have with those kinds
of statements, and I can even put this on somebody
like Bob Lazar, is that you can make these statements,
but you don't have the other part to back up
that statement. Where it take us to the hangar Lakatski,
where you went out on board this ship, what's the address?

(01:14:24):
And was the same thing with David Grush. Well, I'll
do it in a skiff. I have the list of
give us those addresses. I mean, it's it's now just
to put up or shut up situation. Give us the names,
give us the companies. Where was the location, and let's
go and look at this what we can do with
three I at lists. It's right there, we can see it.

(01:14:49):
And that's the component that is missing with all of
the other you know, whistle.

Speaker 2 (01:14:54):
Ball, although they all stated it's a process. Even Chris
Mussol told me before the whole thing blew up when
Hillary lost the election. They had a program, seven year
program to disclose UFOs, and because Hillary lost the election,
they had to re revamp the program. And then they
came out and you saw the Schumer amendment. What was
the Schumer amendment? We were basically had two Republican votes

(01:15:16):
that blocked it. The two guys on the Armed Services
and Intelligence in the House, they blocked it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:23):
Otherwise we had disclosure today.

Speaker 2 (01:15:25):
It was all going to be released in six years,
there was going to be subpoena power, all this kind
of stuff, we would have disclosure. We got pretty close
in terms of actually getting there. So Lakatski actually made
another statement. He said, my job, I don't know about
Colem Callahery said, but my job is taking highly class
by material and moving it down to lower classifications. And
Bobby Rainman said the same thing in the taped interview,

(01:15:47):
if you remember the taped interview many many years ago,
he said, there's a program to unravel this thing, but
the way they're going to do it is not drop
at all. At one thing. They're gradually putting the story
in and climbizing people to the fact that this is real.
This isn't moving and moving, and it's going to be
a very slow process because it's the old story. I mean,

(01:16:07):
you got the you know, half the people can't read
this sort of thing, and then you you're gonna, you know,
drop this stuff and it's gonna be very complex. It's
not going to be extraterrestrials and crafts.

Speaker 3 (01:16:17):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
When I talked to Tim Taylor, he indicated to me
it was it was like a portal type thing where
they're popping in popping out. Uh and uh, Pendolphi says
the same thing. He said, people have always wondered what
it's like to go into the next world. There's been
a breakthrough. The next time John Sillisen goes to desert,
a number of us here will go into the next
world and come back again. And this is all into

(01:16:39):
this thing that it's it's not as simple as people
think it is. It's going to be more mind esoteric
popping in popping out with like Mission Rama talks about
with the zendras of the portals and stuff like that.
And uh, so they have to unravel it. I can
agree with them that you've got to unravel it very
very slowly in terms of, uh, getting people to a

(01:17:00):
climatized even Walker said, he said, because people said, you
got a year, an old man, you got to tell
us what's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:17:05):
He said, what's the problem. He said, it's been forty years.

Speaker 2 (01:17:08):
We haven't blown up the world yet.

Speaker 3 (01:17:12):
Yeah, it's so funny when you think about that. And uh,
there's another there's another approach to this, and this is
humans as a species. We get smarter every day. Our
ability to understand more increases every single day. Right, And

(01:17:32):
if you think about the way that just the average Joe,
the average Joette, Right, the average person understands science today.
The the mindset just one hundred years ago, even fifteen
years ago was completely different than what we can understand today.

(01:17:56):
Time travel, the multiverse, entanglement, you know, and Marvel and
other things have a lot to do with that because
they're heavy science spaceed. But you have Star Trek and
Star Wars and all of this stuff. So we have
a different way of looking at it today. But you
know what, so does et So if we go back

(01:18:19):
just as recent as before World War two, grant. We
didn't have radar, that is new technology. So before World
War two, ET, any advanced race that was visiting this
planet could come and go as they pleased. We didn't

(01:18:40):
see them coming. We didn't have satellites, we didn't have
deep space, we didn't have any of that right and
so ET had to adapt. Once radar came in, satellites
came deep field, deep sensing abilities to track things in spa.

(01:19:00):
Once that was there, ET couldn't do that with us anymore.
And that's why the interdimensional component makes so much sense
that they would have to approach this planet in a
different way if they want to be a little bit
clandestine or you know, not get shot out of the
sky too as well. And I think that the planet

(01:19:22):
understands that the interdimensional component to this is a real one.
And I don't think it's because of anything else than
where we are as as humans and where we are
in our advancement of technology. Before World War Two, it

(01:19:43):
was freedom of the skies, you know, And that's the
way that I look at it.

Speaker 2 (01:19:49):
And yet in another way, I always have this thing
about sightings, where you know, why does it why do
UFOs make triangles and fly through the sky and it's like,
you know, it's like there's hell look at this, or
even you see you did this story now with the
interview that was just released with Jesse Marcel Juniors Senior
where he says a month before they crash at Roswold,

(01:20:10):
he saw five UFOs flying in formation towards the base
a month before, and this whole idea. So when I
when people say, uh, you know, they saw UFO whatever,
I always say, what was it doing?

Speaker 1 (01:20:21):
Wasn't doing anything? It was just there. Do you think
it saw you? I think, so, do you think it
saw you? You knew it saw you? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:20:27):
And it's this whole idea that they're they're they're showing
up and they're just motivating people down the rabbit hole
and not really doing anything. Because that's the thing that
made me the second sighting I had that it came
towards me, So it came directly at me, made a
right it made a left hand turn, and then it
sort of went back and went into the northeast. And
I'm thinking, like years later, I'm thinking, why did they
not just go from the west into the northeast. Why

(01:20:48):
did it have to come at me? Directly at me
and go because they wanted me. They wanted me to
go what the heck is going on? And it was
like this display where you see the studying that got
Bud Hopkins involved. He's driving in with his friends from Britain.
He's on the on the coast and this UFO just
appears over the car and just sitting there plain daylight's
not doing anything. It's just singing about the car and

(01:21:09):
he's looking at this thing. And that's what in sixty
three or whatever it was, that's what started him down
the rabbit hole. And you hear all these stories. Jack
but Ley started with the with the UFO over the
over the over the church and he was just sitting there,
wasn't doing anything. And it was this idea where they
they you can't figure it out, and they know how
to motivate people to sort of get them going. And
you'll hear this all the time where people can remember

(01:21:30):
every detail of it and then you ask them.

Speaker 1 (01:21:32):
What was it doing and what wasn't doing anything? It
was never doing anything.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
And that's what amazed me was that, you know, we
used to make a joke because we lived was right
on the American border and back then, American beer was very,
very weak.

Speaker 1 (01:21:42):
So we had this with this joke.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
They said, they're making a beer run, They're coming from
the station, they're going back to them.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
That I remember that. Well, if you look historically speaking, uh,
you know, today we have three i at Lias and
the headlines and everything else. If we go back historically
and you go back to June, June, and July of
nineteen forty seven, go and I would ask everybody listening

(01:22:12):
to this go back and look at the historical record
and look at what was reported around the United States
and newspapers at that time. The fleet, the Kenneth Arnold
fleet that was seen up at Rainier. There were two
or three sightings that week around the country of fleets
of objects. This is before the Roswell Daily Record and

(01:22:34):
flying saws. No, this was happening around the country. The
Kenneth Arnold thing was not an isolated situation. Roswell was
not an isolated situation. He had the roads photographs that
were taken in Phoenix right that same week, and those
are incredible. Those are some of the best UFO photographs

(01:22:56):
ever taken. And that was all in that same period.
It's very strange to me, when you look at things historically,
how things were happening on the same days. Did you
know Okay, Rendall Shim happened Christmas week of nineteen eighty right, Okay,

(01:23:19):
we know about those three nights, don't we. Right? Do
you know what else? What other famous UFO incident happened
on the same night as Rendall Shim, same year, the
same night. Yep, Cash, Yeah, how crazy would you get
involving injuries, involving the Air force, right, a triangular strange craft,

(01:23:46):
all of that on the same night. Now, at what
point do you go that's coincidence? You know, to the debunkers.

Speaker 1 (01:23:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
And then and then you see with the with the
cash lantern thing with the twenty three helicopters, and you
start to wonder because you hear Chris Betso had the
helicopter over his house the same night the event happened.
And people start showing me these helicopters, they reporting black
helicopters falling around and stuff, and they all had UFOs
in them, they had orbs in them, And I say,
we're gonna have a helicopter, black helicopter without an ORB.

(01:24:16):
And then you start wondering, is it actually a helicopter
or is it them like twenty three? So have they
make these displays twenty three make it look like there's
helicopters make this big thing or in like in Rendall
from Force, why do you have to come back three
nights in a row and why do you have to
shoot the beam down to the nuclear weapons storage area
with the nuclear weapons are and stuff like that. And
to me, it's always this display thing where they want

(01:24:38):
to just grand and you know, almost like when you
get Skinwalker Ranch, you know, and you got to sell
this history channel, so you got this this phenomena three
thousand feet up or whatever, and then you say, what
you're gonna do, Let's shot a rocket at it because
that's big for the TV. I should rock on some
of this thing. And I think the phenomenon is doing
the same thing. It's why it was called the theory
of Wow. It's like or the Jesus Circus just had

(01:25:00):
and done miracles, walked down water fed five thousand people,
raised lazars from the dead.

Speaker 1 (01:25:04):
You never heard of the guy. And I think that's
a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
A lot of what the phenomena is doing is doing
this weird, weird thing and the weirder it is the
more people pay attention, and gradually people start to realize, hey,
something's going on here and they start questioning the government,
and then the stuff starts to unravel. And I think
that's where a lot of this stuff is coming from.
And George Hans Hanson, don't if you're George Hanson or
George he wrote the Trickster Book and remember right right right, yeah,

(01:25:30):
And that's that. That was his whole phenomena was that
a lot of this stuff it has this trickster element
to it where they sabotage their own witnesses and they
do these weird things where you know, they got the
men in black, which again Lakatski said, we have confirmed
that there are men in black and they said men
in black like the government.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
No, no real men in black.

Speaker 2 (01:25:49):
And and you if people have had these experiences, you
know where they come in there they're doing a pole
or something and you know there's something wrong way, the
woman's got the wig on sideways.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
And stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:57):
And that's the whole thing is why did why does
the but I'm gonna have to do the men in
black thing? And what Lukaski says, you've got to think
are they are they scaring you off? Or are they
dragging you in?

Speaker 3 (01:26:07):
And that's so, did I ever tell you?

Speaker 2 (01:26:11):
Tell me again? I remember you you had. As I
was telling the story, I remember you.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
Did I ever tell you my men in black story?

Speaker 2 (01:26:17):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:26:18):
You did? I want to hear it again.

Speaker 2 (01:26:19):
As I was telling the story, I remember, Oh, Jimmy
had a man in black story?

Speaker 1 (01:26:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:26:23):
And and uh uh. Before this, I used to live
in a in in the valley, in a gated community. Okay,
all right, So in the gated community, there's a phenomenon
that goes down. Your door bell never rings, Okay, nobody

(01:26:44):
knocks on your front door. No nobody. That's it. So
if somebody comes to the gate, you get notified and
you let them in. But nobody's coming up to your
house unless it's your neighbor. Right. But so I'm sitting
on my back patio drinking coffee in the morning, my
freaking doorbell rings. I didn't even know it worked, Grant,

(01:27:08):
I did all that. I love. It's like, is that
the doorbell? So I get up and I said, this
is weird. And I opened the door and it's a
lady in a suit and she had like identification, maybe
a badge on her hip or something, and an iPad.
And she's in this suit and she goes, Jimmy Church,

(01:27:33):
I go, who's asking. She goes, I'm from the census.
I go the Census. Yes, what do you do? I said, uh,
And I slammed the door right on her face. And

(01:27:53):
I go back and uh. We said some of the things.
But anyway, the next day, I'm sitting out on my patio,
doorbell rings again. It's like, you've got to be kidding me.
And I get up open the door and it's her
with three dudes, and she's standing in front. And the
three guys in the back of her are all football

(01:28:15):
player guys, like like big, and I'll never forget. The
guy on this side to her right had red hair
and he looked like he was alignment for the Nebraska Cornhuskers. Right,
He's a big big They were all big, and and
she's standing there and she goes, listen, mister Church, my

(01:28:37):
boss really needs your information. I said to your bo
and that. I look over their shoulders and I see
across the street two Crown Vics parked behind each other,
and then we, you know, talk for a minute. And
I'm looking. I said, this doesn't feel fun. There's something

(01:29:02):
going on here, right, it's not the census or whatever.
And uh and again I shut the door on their
faces and I and I walk away. What I should
have done is taking pictures and shot video and gone
out and photographed the cars and stuff. I should have
done that. They never came back, by the way, and

(01:29:25):
if they were the census, they didn't go to my neighbors, right,
you know. And I talked to a few of my name,
three of them, and when on each side and went
across the street. I asked them all the same thing. No, no,
what are you talking about? I said. They said they
were from the census. But yeah, yeah, I'm going men
in black on that one.

Speaker 2 (01:29:46):
I'm going Have you heard the story Tom Delong's author,
what's his name? The one of his authors? These men
in Black story? Have heard that one?

Speaker 1 (01:29:53):
That's the weirdest I've ever heard.

Speaker 3 (01:29:56):
Are you the guy he Peter Lavenda.

Speaker 1 (01:29:58):
Venda if you heard his men in Black story? Where
he where the guy?

Speaker 2 (01:30:02):
He's he sees this convertible black uh not convertible black
Cadillac sitting out in front of the guy's got a
big telephoto lens. He's pointing it at the house and
he goes, what the heck, I'm gonna go find out
what's going on here. And he goes marching out there
to confront this guy, and the guy takes off, and
so he goes running back to get in his car
and he's going to chase this guy. And then he says,
as he's as he's backing out, this station wagon, old

(01:30:23):
station wagon with the wooden panel stuff comes and he
pulls in behind him and blocks him, and these two women.

Speaker 1 (01:30:28):
Get out and they said, do you know where this is?

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
And they named some It turns out to be a
company that he knew about, and they said you know
what it is and he says no, and they said, oh.

Speaker 1 (01:30:36):
Sorry, and they pull out and he did.

Speaker 2 (01:30:38):
But it was the he figured it was they were
blocking him from chasing this other guy. It was like
it was all planned to block him, and it was
just the weirdest thing where he and then he's he's
in Singapore. He says, he's in Singapore. Years later and
he says, all of a sudden, someone taps him on
his shoulder and it was one of these women that
was in the car. He says, hi, I remember me,
and she goes running off and he tries to chase
her and she gets lost in the crowd. And that's

(01:31:00):
this weird trickster element where somebody should maybe do a
book on men in black is they're the weirdest things
where people know there's no way this is real. Something's
weird going on here, and it's just it's just so weird,
but but it does get you. You dragged down the
rabbit hole and you see people who have the like
the the first one, the Maury Island thing, those guys
had men in black the morning after, so it couldn't

(01:31:22):
be that they were, you know, claiming the government was
doing it. That was the first major sighting, and these
guys had men in black, and you see it all
over the place, you know, with major witnesses where you
you have a sighting and then suddenly you start having
all these weird paranormal stuff and men in black and
and it all sort of fits together.

Speaker 3 (01:31:36):
Helicopters and you know who was involved in all of
that all the way to the Kennedy assassination. Oh yeah, yeah,
Fred Fred Christman, who was also it got all wrapped
up with Peter Lavenda. Yeah, that's that's that's just kind
of weird.

Speaker 1 (01:31:57):
Yeah, Peter tell the.

Speaker 3 (01:31:58):
Whole story, because Peter grew up in New York and
what was going on there and it was the FBI,
it is this is that it was secret organizations and
everything else going on next door to his house and
and friggin you do you do the breadcrumbs backwards on
that and it's friggin Fred Chrisman, who somehow that guy

(01:32:23):
was involved in like every conspiracy in the United States,
every crazy thing. Fred Christman was at the center of.
Going back to friggin' Maury Island, isn't that nuts?

Speaker 2 (01:32:36):
Yeah, that's almost like that thing when I got when
I did the psilocybin thing where they told me you
haven't got a clue what's going on. The more I
look at it, the more I agree without it, Like
it's just it's so complex and so weird, And it's
almost like who I came in saying that need that
statement where if it isn't weird enough, it's not real.
That's that's your determination. If it's I it's not weird,
it's probably they're making it up. But if it's really weird,

(01:32:58):
like I had the thing with the people on the craft,
where you know, the first woman told me I thought
she was insane. Then these other people started telling me
it didn't make any sense that you let some seventy
year old lady fly the flying saucer type thing. And
you see this over and over again, this pattern of
this bizarre element where you'd never believe it in a
million years, and yet it seems to be motivating people

(01:33:21):
and moving them down to realizing the world is just
not not what you think it is. It's way more complex,
way more paranormal. And you and I are on the
sort of the leading edge of this this field where
it's happening to us, and we sort of feel honored
that we actually got to play the game in terms
of seeing this kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:33:40):
Well, you certainly have played the game. And today Dick
Cheney died, right. I forget how old he was. He's
like one hundred and thirty six or something, no.

Speaker 1 (01:33:51):
Eighty four, as a younger than I thought he was four,
that's all he was.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
So Dick Cheney died today. But you whatever people's haveians
about Dick Cheney are that it's beside the point. But
in nineteen eighty one you got a chance to interview
him and talk to him about the subject of UFOs.
Can you tell me about that?

Speaker 1 (01:34:10):
Okay, it was it was April two thousand and one.

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
Oh, I thought it was. What did I say, eighty
one eighty one?

Speaker 1 (01:34:17):
Yeah, I was chure.

Speaker 2 (01:34:18):
Right after Bush gets elected in he comes into office
in January of eighty one. This happens in April of
eighty one. So basically it's a long atero. I just
tell a little bit of the story. But Bush had
There's a guy named Charles Huffer who used to he
was a big Republican guy, and he lived in Fayetteville, Arkansas,
And every time the Bushes would go back before election

(01:34:40):
to go back to Texas to vote, it was stopping
Fayetteville and encounter him, and he would always ask them,
are you going to release UFOs? So he gets Bush
the one time George w he said, you're going to
release the UFO stuff?

Speaker 3 (01:34:53):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
Yeah, And he goes into it and van he's he's
speaking at an event. He comes walking back out again
and Huffer is still standing there with his tape recorder
and uh, Cheney is right with him, and he says,
uh uh.

Speaker 1 (01:35:03):
He miss you. Know, are you gonna you're gonna do it? Seeah,
I promise you, I do it. I do it.

Speaker 2 (01:35:07):
This guy knows everything. He's he's his former defense secretary.
He he knows I'm gonna It's the first thing he's
gonna do, and against the White House. So of course
he comes into the White House February or January, end
of January, and uh, of course nothing happens. And uh
so we're all, you know, wondering what's what's going on?
And uh, Laura Johnstone, I don't know if you know

(01:35:28):
that story. She starts out of forty two day hunger strike.
She says to Bush, you're going to release this. These
people deserve the truth, and I'm going to do this.
And then the UFO community attacks her like she's the plague.
And I asked her when I came to California, said Laura, Laura,
why did you quit the uh, the the uh the
hunger strike after forty two days? She said, they all

(01:35:48):
harassed me. They couldn't care less, So why should I
die for them?

Speaker 1 (01:35:51):
That's what she said.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
She's sitting on I think Fineman Center to find Feinstein's
front door. And this went on for forty two days.
So this story started to pick up some steam. And
then I heard that Dick Cheney was going to be
on the Diana Reem National public radio show in Washington,
d C.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
And I knew how to get on the show.

Speaker 2 (01:36:11):
So I took off from from work and I went
racing home and I got on the phone, and I
was the first question up. And of course he was
former chiefs of Staff for Ford, Secretary of Defense for
Bush Senior, and now he's the Vice president. And he
was actually in the White House when when this conversation
took place.

Speaker 1 (01:36:28):
So he's he's he's there.

Speaker 2 (01:36:31):
And my question, and I say to all people, when
when you get somebody who's a high level official, you
don't want to ask him you believe in UFOs or
have you seen a UFO that that's that's no interest.
What you want to ask him is, at any point
in your career did someone walk in your room and
tell you what's going on?

Speaker 1 (01:36:46):
Did they ever give you the briefing? So that's what
I said to him.

Speaker 2 (01:36:49):
I said, mister Cheney, in all your jobs in government,
have you ever been briefed on the subject of UFOs?
If so, when was it and what were you told?
And then they cut me off the line. They cut
me off. I didn't hear his reply till all these
emails started coming in saying do you hear what he said?
It's like what he said was if I had been
briefed on that subject, it would probably be classified and
I wouldn't be talking about it.

Speaker 1 (01:37:09):
And she asked him, are you running the White House?
Or is Bush running the White House?

Speaker 3 (01:37:12):
No?

Speaker 2 (01:37:12):
No, Bush is running the White House. And then she says,
have there been any UFO meetings since you got to
the White House? And he said, now, there's been no
UFO meetings since I got to the White House. So
that was sort of my fifteen seconds of fame in
terms of talking to Cheney. And now the rumors are
all around. David Gresh has identified him as being one

(01:37:33):
of the He thinks he's the top guy, but he
may not be. There was Kissinger was one, Bobby Raymond
was one, and we always believe that Dick Cheney was
one of the guys. That's why I asked him the question,
did you ever get briefed on this thing? And what
did they tell you? So he confirmed that it was
He didn't say there are no UFOs. He said, if
I had been briefed on that subject be classified, I
wouldn't be talking about it, which is the bottom line

(01:37:54):
to the whole thing that they believe it's classified and
we got to keep it from the Russians, and we're
working on technology and bigger weapons and all this kind
of stuff, and uh, he's going to play by the
play by the rules.

Speaker 3 (01:38:05):
Here's here's the thing about uh, not only Cheney, but
Bush Senior and and people like him, because there are
uh people that get elected into office, but they've been
you know, their career was Washington. And when you look

(01:38:27):
at Bush Senior before he was vice president and everything
that he had done. He ran through the intelligence community
forever and ran the c I.

Speaker 2 (01:38:37):
A one year But but.

Speaker 3 (01:38:41):
But my point, but my point being he he was
a career a person where the opposite when if you're
just coming into the game like a Jimmy Carter going
from governor uh to the White House or even Barack
Obama or others right where they go Yeah, yeah, Reagan

(01:39:05):
governor to president. The people around you in the intelligence
community have been in the game for decades and they
have access to information The Oval office does not. You
can request it, you have security briefings, but is this
kind of stuff going to be in there? So then

(01:39:26):
you have to back up and go, well, would somebody
like a Rumsfeld or a Chainey or a Bush senior
be sitting on this information and outside of elected officials?
And if you look at the frustration of Congress and

(01:39:47):
the Senate, those are elected officials trying to get at
the intelligence community and the military industrial complex trying to
get at this information and they can't. It's a different
you know what I mean. But but Bush sr Is
now president who has access to all of the secrets

(01:40:10):
for so long? You know, don't you find that very interesting?
I mean I do.

Speaker 2 (01:40:15):
Yeah, we've learned a bit since about Bush. For example,
Charles Huffer got him on tape the one time. He said,
are you going to release? And he said, yeah, yeah,
I'm going to release. He said, come on, you're a
CI you know what's going on. And then Bush says,
and it's a really bad tape, but you can still
sort of pick it up. He says, yeah, I know
some Yeah, I know a lot. And Eric Davis is

(01:40:39):
now confirmed that he talked to Bush about the holloman
I First Base film and the NIBS was busy trying
to track that thing down because they had inside story
that this this is actually for real. They actually had
the film, and so he asked, there was all these
counter stories to the Holloman thing.

Speaker 1 (01:40:55):
It was an A twelve flaming out. It was it
was lenses.

Speaker 2 (01:40:58):
The didn't want to show the lens to the Russians
that they're using the film, and it was what they
had also see bizarre explanations of what the counter explanations
is what this was. So Eric Davis for me one
time and he said, you got Jimmy Carter's phoneber. He said, nah,
I'm a Canadian. I would have to Jimmy Carnter's vhemer.
I said, what do you want Jimmy Carter's wheimer for?
He sai, I want to ask him about the Holimer

(01:41:19):
Rei first based film, because there was a rumor that
he had been showing a fifteen minute color film which
matches the haulam At Air Firce Base story. And then
his UH one of the secret Service guys claimed that
he was in the briefing and that it was about UFOs.
But anyway, so he's he he's trying to get a
hold of Carter, but he had already contacted Ford and

(01:41:39):
Bush because there were former members of this former intelligence
agency thing, and so Carter wasn't uh and Eric Davis was,
so he knew the phone numbers and they would talk
to him, and he asked him. He asked Bush about
the Hallam a re first based film, and he said,
was it an a twelve flaming out?

Speaker 3 (01:41:56):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:41:56):
Was it this?

Speaker 2 (01:41:57):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:41:57):
Was it a psychological operation?

Speaker 3 (01:41:59):
No?

Speaker 1 (01:41:59):
Was a draining film? Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:42:00):
And he goes to the whole list. And then Bush
said it was real and there was massive security, and
so that that was the one story that was told
about the Bush that sort of backs up that that
at least Ford and he were getting briefings. Ford said
to Eric Davis apparently he said, yeah, I was brief No. No, Ford,

(01:42:22):
Bush said, I didn't see it as president in my
presidential briefing, but I did see it as caa director,
whereas Ford said he saw it in his briefing when
he was president. He saw this film and he said so.
Eric Davis asked him, well, women's the briefing, and he said,
I'm never going to tell you.

Speaker 1 (01:42:38):
Don't even go there.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
So some of the stuff is starting to surface now
in terms of what they knew. You know that they
did know some stuff. And then of course there's the
big story Richard Dolan and others. They started in that
book Exempt from Disclosure about them wanting to brief for
Bush in ninety one.

Speaker 1 (01:42:58):
They were going to drop the bomb.

Speaker 2 (01:42:59):
Ninety one, They're going to uh, they're gonna do it,
and it was a national security advisor whatever. Suddenly they
went to him and he said, you mean this is
for real. Nobody showed me nothing. He was furious. He's
yelling and screaming that they told me this was all nonsense.
And they were gonna go to Kenny Bunkpoort and they
were gonna they were gonna do the briefing and they
were gonna they were going to drop it, and then
it got called off and for for whatever reason. But uh,

(01:43:21):
a lot of this presidential stuff is starting to uh
sort of leak out in terms of who was told,
who wasn't told, and and what they were told.

Speaker 3 (01:43:29):
And uh, well, this is why I think that we're
at a point of history right now with three i
at lists that is different than everything else. The Holloman film,
which is the Holy Grail. It's the arc of the Covenant, right,
it's just like you know it. It supposedly is out there.

(01:43:50):
I believe that it is, but it has evaded everything
so close to you know, there's pieces of it in
Emmenegger's film, and there's this is it at Emmenegger's house?
Did he ever have possession of it? Was? Was it?
His producers? All of these things, but it has never surfaced.
But with three I Atlas, we have all of the

(01:44:16):
amateur astronomers out there and the telescopes and everything else
to track this. It's a different situation where we may
be able to actually see these.

Speaker 2 (01:44:25):
Well, let me give you another story that backs up
this fact that we've got a bunch of stuff that's
going on and nobody's even paying attention to it. I
made public the fact that I was talking to Bob
Ammeneger one time and I said, Bob, you told me
you got all this stuff. Yeah, we got from everybody
in the NASA defans everbody was giving us stuff. You
could ask whoever we want, We could talk to wherever
we want. There's no cover up. And he was going
on this sort of stuff, and then I said, well

(01:44:46):
you had this. They told you to take the Hohlement
film back and he said, yeah, I told you. I
told you that story. And I said, yeah, okay, but
what about the rest of the stuff. Did you have
to give all the rest of the stuff back? And
he goes, eah, no, the one. And I said, this
is the film at Vandenberg where the UFO shoots down
the missile, where it zaps the missile at three different

(01:45:07):
points and then the thing tumbles into the sea. And
I said, you still got that film? He said, yeah,
we never had. I don't think we had it back.
I think Alan Sandler still got it. And I said,
Alan Sandler's got it and he said I think so.
And so I told Angela join her and then she
told James Fox, and James Fox was working with him,

(01:45:29):
and he wanted twenty five thousand dollars for the film.
And then Fox gathered the money up, and then he
said he talked to his lawyer, and his lawyer said,
you've got lots of money. You don't need twenty five
thousand bucks. This will ruin your life. Just forget about it.
So then Fox went to him and he told Congress
about it and that this film that Sandler has it

(01:45:49):
in a vault in Oregon and he went to Sandler
and he said, you know that that film you got
is still classified.

Speaker 1 (01:45:57):
You could get arrested for this.

Speaker 2 (01:45:58):
And now there's negotiat going on now for this film
to be brought out into into the Congress. So this
is a story that's been going on for a number
of years and this kind of stuff. We've got this
stuff right on the edge of our fingertips, and nobody's
really paying any attention. Nobody pays you know, they're they're
sort of sidetracked by all sorts of other stuff. But
this is a big thing if Fox can get this

(01:46:19):
Congress to force this thing because it is classified material
and Sandler's in possession of this, and this is this
famous film that everybody's heard about where the UFO shoots
down the missile I.

Speaker 3 (01:46:31):
That's another compelling thing that you know, what what will
eventually be revealed? Uh, you would think that stuff would
would be leaked eventually, like the Holloman Air Force Base film.
And Robert emmenegg Er, Bob, he's one. There's a few,

(01:46:53):
just a handful of people that I never got a
chance to interview, and he was one of them. And
I don't know if it was you. It may have
been you that put me in touch with him many
years ago. And then he passed away right after that,
and I was like this close. I was just so
interested in I didn't want like deathbed confession isn't the

(01:47:19):
right way to put it. But I think that once
you get to a certain point in your life, grant
you just don't give a shit anymore. It's not about retirement,
it's not about fun, it's not about this, not about that,
you know, and you just want to just, you know,
open up and speak. And that's what I wanted out

(01:47:41):
of him.

Speaker 2 (01:47:42):
And well, you still got Sandler still alive. I think
you can go to him and talk about the film.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
I think I had him on the show five five
years ago.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
Is that right.

Speaker 2 (01:47:51):
I've never heard him. I've never heard him be in.
Bob was always the pr guy, Bob says Sandler. His
wife said about Sandler, she says, this guy was done
as a bag of hammers, but you could give him
a stick and a piece of gum and he'd come
back at night by the pile of money. And so
he Bob says, I was the guy who did all
the work and Sandler was the brains. He'd bring in

(01:48:12):
the intelligence people and the CIA people, FBI people and
stuff like that, and Bob would be doing all the work.

Speaker 3 (01:48:18):
Well, I had one of the producers on the show,
and I think it was Sandler, and I remember he
had sent me. Here's the crazy part about that. He
said that not only had he seen the film and
watched it many times, but he describes the aliens and

(01:48:41):
what they look like, and how they came down and
how they approach. One of them had a something in
his hand. I can't remember exactly everything.

Speaker 4 (01:48:50):
But.

Speaker 3 (01:48:52):
I just don't feel like he was making it up.
Didn't feel that way to me. Now, maybe he's told
the story so many times and it's made up that
it becomes truth. Okay, all right, I'm I'm not an idiot.
That kind of stuff can happen. But it was just

(01:49:13):
the way that he spoke about it, you know. And
he's also I'm trying to think the way that I
felt about it. He was just an intelligent movie producer,
you know, he just had his wits about him. He
didn't sound crazy. And I talked to him. It was

(01:49:34):
like a three hour interview.

Speaker 2 (01:49:37):
Wow. Yeah, it's an interesting especially to hear the stories
like behind the scenes with Bob when I when when
I talked about the film coming out, and then he
mentions the fact that Annie Spielberg, like I said, you know, Bob,
if it wasn't for the landing spot and if it
wasn't for the time of day, you're the home interfer

(01:49:57):
space is exactly like Close Encrs The Third Kind.

Speaker 1 (01:49:59):
That's when he said, what I didn't tell you? Said, no,
you didn't tell me.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
Why didn't tell you any Spielberg worked for me? That
Spielberg wanted to copy of the film. And I said, no,
you didn't tell me that. He said, yes, she worked on,
she worked on and Stephen wanted to copy the film
in nineteen seventy five. This Close Encounters came out in
seventy seven. And then he said to me, and this
is really bizarre story. He said, after Close Encounters the
Third Kind came out, Spielberg's mother came to Bob s

(01:50:24):
Emmenegger and said, you know, I've seen your version of
the landing, and I've seen Stephen's version of the landing
and a Lake Stephens version better.

Speaker 3 (01:50:30):
And you know, here's the other crazy part. Holloman is
not down the street, but it's in the zip code
of Roswell, and most people don't understand that. And here's okay,
let me ask you about this. We have Holloman, we

(01:50:51):
have Edward's Air Force Base, different contact experiences with the military,
just like Mars attacks or close encounters of the third kind, right,
like these things have gone down throughout history where these
are part of the military establishment and not. This isn't

(01:51:16):
Betty and Barney Hill, right, This is military bases with
military professionals and elect in some cases elected officials, you know,
in the case with Eisenhower. These are big seminal events,
aren't they. But they involve the military, they're not. They're
not Travis Walton or Pasca Ghula or Betty and Barney Hill.

(01:51:39):
This is a different situation altogether.

Speaker 2 (01:51:42):
Yeah, Well, I think they play harassment the of the
of the government. They're they're just playing games. Like I'm
still trying to find this map. There's actually a map
made nineteen forty nine USF first map where they showed
were all the UFOs and all the military and nuclear
power plutonium stuff was and where the UFO sightings were.

Speaker 1 (01:52:04):
This is nineteen forty nine.

Speaker 2 (01:52:05):
They knew this this this connection before where they're coming
in and they're they're sort of playing this game and
uh and again raising consciousness. But like you get with
the the SkyWatch, I mean, they have twenty one things
in formation, so why do you need twenty one UFOs
to come in? And they come in at certain times

(01:52:25):
of the day and you hear this sort of stuff
where the then the number of UFOs that were supposedly
in the Nimtz there was piles of them, and or
the other one where there's a one hundred that they're
all over the place, and it's almost like the phenomena
is upping the anti First it was one or two crafts.
Then it's more and more and more, and they're the
sightings get more and more dramatic. There was the sightings
that you see today. There's no way this stuff was

(01:52:47):
happening in seventy five. There's no way there's like this
the Nimat story or any of these stories. In seventy five,
it was just very simple UFO things. Some saw UFO.
It may have landed, there may have been an alien,
and the aliens were completely different. They're walking around they
you know, some of them had bubble helmets on from
the fifties, you know, almost like the like they take
it rid out of the cartoons. One had a t

(01:53:08):
uh uh a sure a sweater on. They asked for
a pail of water. There's all these bizarre sightings before
and as soon as you get the space age, then
suddenly all the aliens sort of change. And uh, the
aliens have changed dramatically from from the early days to
what they are now. Now there's not even really any
being seen. It's it's now it's orbs. So you can

(01:53:30):
see that. Uh, the phenomena has a lot of control
over over what you're seen. But I do think they're
they're harassing the military. They're they're doing this kind of
stuff where uh they want the military to chase them.
And and again maybe because that's an American thing, that
that America. If if you get an F eighteen pilot
who chases the UF oh that's big. I mean that's
almost like Avid Lobe doing doing uh, the the Atlas

(01:53:54):
thing where people will listen to that. So they know
if if you get these cases with the military, they're
going to report it. It's going to make big news,
and that's what they want. They it's they whold Hollywood thing.
You spell your name right. They just want people to
talk about it. They want more and more people.

Speaker 1 (01:54:07):
To talk about it.

Speaker 2 (01:54:08):
And you'll see this with with experiencers like Sherry Wilde.
Sherry did they did you know? They forced her to
write the book? Nancy Tremaine, They told her to write
the book. I ask all these people when they write
a book, did they tell you to write the book? Yes,
they told me to write the book. And it's the
old or they say, you've got to talk about this,
like Chris Bletsoe, you've got to talk about this. You
made disagreement to talk. You're supposed to talk about this,

(01:54:28):
and this the lady comes to him twice and he's
he's forced to go out and talk. And that's what
I think they're doing. They they're not They don't want
the story exactly right or give you all the information.

Speaker 1 (01:54:39):
They just want people to talk about this.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
And as we go along, we realize that the complexity
of this phenomena and the fact that the world is
not the way you think it is.

Speaker 1 (01:54:46):
Say, think that's the bottom line.

Speaker 3 (01:54:48):
Yeah, for sure, right out here in my backyard and
for for all of you researchers out there feel free
to to look this stuff up. It's it's documented and
it's out. There's so many books and document releases. Edwards
Air Force Bace which used to be Moroc Army Airfield.

(01:55:10):
Then it became Moroq Air Force Base when the Air
Force was created, and then a couple of years after
that it was renamed Edwards. But in the nineteen forties,
during World War Two, nineteen forty two, nineteen forty three,
forty four and forty five, there were separate sightings out
at Meroc by the Air Force and the Army. It

(01:55:33):
was an army airfield originally where the reports were written.
Now this is you have to remember, this is before
Kenneth Arnold. This is before flying saucers were called flying
saucers or anything else. They were going out. This one
pilot in one of the cases, he lands his plane
and he's walking across the tarmac and he sees something

(01:55:57):
in the sky and he looks and it's a metal
disc above Moroc and everybody crowds around and they're looking.
They're like, what the heck, and and then it moves
and this is in the report. Now they didn't even
know how to deal with it. Back then they said
it flew away against the wind. In other words, these

(01:56:18):
are pilots, right, this is ground crews, they know. You know,
it's an air force base, and it moved against the wind.
A couple hours later it came back. Now there are four,
but there's more than this. But there are four official
reports from force different years at Moroc of metallic objects

(01:56:42):
above that base. Now you have to ask yourself, what's
the significance of the base? Okay, what's that? Why? Well,
it's military one, but two maybe there's an ancient connection there.
I don't know, something that goes back ears. But this
was way before or the alien wave went across the

(01:57:03):
United States, which was after World War II nineteen forty
seven and forward, you know, going into nineteen fifty two
and what have you. But this has been going on
for a while, and when you have professional observers the
military taking note of this phenomenon in the sky, I
think that's just as important as any other Eyewinness account,

(01:57:25):
don't you.

Speaker 2 (01:57:26):
Oh yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, I mean that's it's important stuff.
We're almost out of time. I got to tell you
what the aliens are listening to?

Speaker 1 (01:57:33):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:57:34):
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So what do you
what do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:57:37):
So I got the phone call from Chris Bletsol This
is twenty fourteen. Yeah, and he says, I got a
message from the Guardians for you. I said, oh really.
He said yeah. He said they want you to know
the messages and the music. And I said, well, Chris,
you're probably talking to the wrong guy here, I mean,
you know, ready to talk guy. I don't play music.
I don't listen to music nothing. And he said, well,
the song songs you listen to his Cashmere by Led Zeppelin,

(01:58:00):
and I go, whatever, Christ And then he said, oh,
and the other song you sho listen to is After
the gold Rush by Neil Young. So all your listeners
can go and get the lyrics from those songs and
take a look and see if that doesn't fit into UFOs.
And and because of Neil Young, that's the synchronicity, how
they drag you into it. The synchronicity was I lived
in Winnipeg, Mental Canada, the coldest major city in the world,

(01:58:20):
and it was famous for nothing. Even Canadians don't want
to visit there. And Neil Young grew up there. And
it was because I said, Neil Young is invaulted in
this thing, Neil Young, And that's why I chased it. Now,
I finished my second book on music, so the messages
in the music, that's what the guardians Chris told me,
and Cashmere, and I was shocked when I saw the lyrics,
all those those songs of you take a look and

(01:58:42):
you go wow.

Speaker 3 (01:58:43):
It's like, well, when I listened to After the gold Rush, now,
I can't. I don't think of anything but aliens, you know,
I just I can't. The other day, I was driving
back from San Diego and I played I know, okay, everybody, look,

(01:59:04):
I've got a lot of guitars behind me. But I
listened to the Carpenter's Greatest Hits the album right, it's
just phenomenally great album. But that frigging song about et
and contact, right, and go and listen to if Anything
is relevant today and now talk about you know, they

(01:59:27):
were so famous at that point, right, the Carpenters, they
were so famous. What are they doing a song about
ET in contact? You know, it's it's crazy. And listen
to the words. It's such a powerful song and it's
it's how do I say this? It's the vocabulary that

(01:59:50):
we use today in the UFO community. But yet they
were able to her and Richard put that into uh
put that into lyrics. Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Who wrote
that song? Do you remember I'm gonna look it up
right now. Carpenter's et song. Okay, calling out occupants of

(02:00:15):
the interplanetary craft. Okay, let's see wow okay, uh uh.

Speaker 1 (02:00:27):
Hmm.

Speaker 3 (02:00:28):
I was looking for something simple. Uh no, I'm not no,
I'm not gonna We're at the end, We're at the
end of this. But I listened to the lyrics driving
on the freeway coming back, and it was I knew
the song so well, but it really hit me different
this time around, listening to the words and how it

(02:00:50):
was written. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:51):
I've got a lot of songs in my first book
where I I go back and I look at song
facts and where to get this song from, and you
go and look and they had an experience or something
happened like that. It's it's amazing how many and how
many musicians believe the rextraterrestrials. Don John Denver, for one,
believed he was from the constellation Lyra.

Speaker 3 (02:01:10):
I remember one of the first times I got a
chance to hang out with you in person. Was here
in Los Angeles and you were here. I can't remember
you were speaking at.

Speaker 2 (02:01:22):
No no, no, no, no, no no no.

Speaker 1 (02:01:25):
It was the Oh yeah, it was the events, the
two events there.

Speaker 3 (02:01:28):
Yeah, you were it was like at a park. You
were at an event center somewhere and anyway that that
doesn't matter, so uh, we're there, and it was it
was cool you're speaking. And that's when you announced the
book about music, and you brought up all these facts,
you know, you know, different songs, and I was thinking,

(02:01:48):
it was like Grant, Grant doesn't look like a music guy.
But this is my point, you're the perfect person to
go into it objectively. Yeah, but I have.

Speaker 2 (02:02:01):
To read the book every once in a while or
I forget all the names and the songs and stuff,
and it's like it's sort to become a blur.

Speaker 1 (02:02:07):
But it's it's actually interesting.

Speaker 2 (02:02:09):
It's like at one time I thought they had every
major musician I abducted. I thought that had them all.
I actually was convinced when I started to put them together.
It's amazing how many musicians I've got UFO experiences.

Speaker 1 (02:02:20):
It's unbelievable.

Speaker 3 (02:02:20):
Yeah, and John Lennon, you just go on and on
and on. I don't know how many album covers have
flying saucers on it. There's a song by and We're
off the network by the way, so we can rap
at any point. There's a song by Frank Zappa. It's

(02:02:41):
called Inca Roads, Okay about Peru, and it's all about
there is there's a verse in the song about the
craft coming down and landing on a hill and then
they say flying saucer later, but and the beings coming

(02:03:03):
out and interacting with the Inca And it's called Inger Rhoads.
And I'm a kid, grant, I'm a kid in the seventies, right,
smoking weed and listening to Frank Zappa with my headphones on, right,
and I'm listening to Inger Roads, and I'm like, what's
Frank singing about? What's going on here? And he does
it so well. But it was just one of those

(02:03:26):
things where if you really look closely at musicians, a
lot of them have contact experiences. A lot.

Speaker 2 (02:03:34):
Yeah, Frank Zappa. There's a video you can look up
Frank Zappa UFO video. He talks about his UFO experience.

Speaker 3 (02:03:40):
Oh really, I didn't know that? Is that true?

Speaker 1 (02:03:42):
I think so?

Speaker 2 (02:03:43):
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I will talk about UFOs or
he talks about his experience and his kid. His kid
played with Chris Peters who was Barbara Streis and step
son who's a full blown experiencer. They played in the
same band, Zappa's kid in him.

Speaker 3 (02:03:58):
Well, and he named his daughter Unit. So what's not
the love, right Grant? Thank you so much, my friend.
You are the attitude Again. Sometime you're the absolute very best.
Go enjoy the rest of your evening. Thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (02:04:10):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (02:04:11):
Talk to Grant, Cameron, everybody, the absolute very best. We
have Grant's links below three. I Atlas is a big, big,
big deal right now. I've stated it very publicly. I'm
going to state it again. I think it's it's it's
et it's extraterrestrial. It is not natural. It doesn't exhibit

(02:04:32):
anything to me natural. That's that's where I am. This
is going to continue to be in the news and
hopefully we will get the truth. I am your host,
Jimmy Church. What am I doing tomorrow night?

Speaker 4 (02:04:48):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (02:04:49):
Jeez, do I actually have to do this? I am
oh tomorrow night. Danny Gohler is here, that's right, DMT
and the Code of Reality tomorrow night with the one
and only Danny Goler. It's a big show, so I'll
see everybody tomorrow night. But for now, all I've got
is go Beckley Tappy. Fade to Black is produced by

(02:05:14):
Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman and Michelle Free. Special thanks
to Bill John Dex, Jessica Dennis and Kevin Webmaster is
Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Albridge. Intro Spaceboy. Aide
to Black is produced by kJ c R for the

(02:05:35):
Game Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted twenty
twenty four by Fade to Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc.
It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or used anywhere in
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Go Beckley Tappy.