FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Danny Goler

Tonight, researcher Danny Goler joins us to discuss his laser experiments with DMT that revealed 'The Code'... check out his video on YouTube: 'The Discovery'.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:28):
This hope radio for the Nassis headline of US.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
July eighth, nineteen forty seven.

Speaker 3 (00:33):
The Yadi Air Force has an outstart applying this help
be found and there's now in the possession.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
Of the YadA.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
The game is really changed, the game change.

Speaker 3 (00:44):
I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would
vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside
this work.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
This is Day to Black.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
It's your host, Jimmy Church on the Game Changer Radio Network.
All right, well, well, well, good evening. How you doing
Fade to Black? Today is Wednesday, November fifth, twenty twenty five.
Let's do this, Mayona, I mean Jimmy Church. This week

(01:22):
on Fade to Black an amazing week. Monday Night, our
el Pool was here last night. Grant Cameron, one of
the great researchers, talking about three I Atlas tonight, very excited.
Danny Gohler is with us talking about the Code of Reality,
DMT and some other stuff. Get ready, buckle up, kids,
And then tomorrow night it's our once a month ama

(01:46):
aja where you get to ask me anything. Yeah? Remember
when I used to do that after every sip of coffee,
Remember that I don't do that anymore. Maybe maybe I

(02:07):
need to get back to it. I think so. I
think in a weird way, I met I was before
I bring Danny in. I was talking with a friend
of mine earlier today about the old days of radio,
the old days of radio before video and all of that.

(02:29):
And here I am, I'm going into these you know,
big radio stations, and you know, and the staff and
the audiences and the FCC regulations. But there was something about,
no matter how large the audience is, you are reduced
to in a studio situation, and it's so wonderful. It's

(02:54):
you pair of headphones, microphone, your guest, and that's it.
And you have this icelation thing and you can do
whatever you know, and it's the theater of the mind. Hey,
you introduce video into it like this, and now I've
got to wear a clean shirt. You know, I have
to brush my teeth, you know, I got to do

(03:15):
stuff like it and make sure my hair is right
and I'm shaved and and all of it. It's like this, say,
and it's a distraction. I do. I truly miss the
old days, Like when I used to go Ah, just
to let you know, I took a zip of coffee. Tonight,
Danny Goehler is with us. We're talking about DMT tonight,

(03:37):
the Code of Reality. If you haven't seen his videos,
we have the links up for everything below and you
can go and do that and see his YouTube channel,
which is incredible, and of course his website. Those links
are below. Oh Man, the Laser DMT Experiment Discovery and

(04:00):
I was told about this video. I had spoken to
a few of Danny and I's mutual friends about Danny
and his work and that I needed to go and
check this stuff out. And I did, and it is
a life changing situation. It's a paradigm shift. Go and

(04:20):
watch these videos. Tonight we're going to be talking about
all of this and of course what was revealed, but
what it means to us in humanity and the actual
fabric of reality, because these boundaries with DMT get if
they don't get blurred, they certainly get removed. And I've

(04:45):
spoken about it a lot on this show, and I'm
very excited to have Danny here. We're going to be
doing some stuff together here in the future, and I'm
very excited about that. And again, I just want everybody
to go and visit his YouTube channel. I know that
the moderators have got the links up for that and

(05:05):
check out the Code of Reality. All right, And with that,
I'm gonna make this quick and say welcome, Danny.

Speaker 1 (05:12):
How you doing man, I'm doing amazing. Thank you so
much for having me. Jimmy.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Yeah, this is gonna be great. It's gonna be great.
And while you're coming in hot No, you're fine, don't
don't change anything. Let me just check something out here. Okay,
all right, we're fine now, Danny, before we get started,
huge fan fanboy here, and I'm going to remain objective tonight. Okay,
So I'm gonna play it, play it down the middle

(05:38):
of the best, to the best of my abilities. But
before we get started, you get the first time guest disclaimer. Okay, now,
all right. It goes like this, Danny, is just you
and I sitting on my couch having a conversation as friends.
And where the conversation starts, it starts, where it ends,
it ends. But we're gonna end as friends. We're already friends.

(05:58):
But you know what I'm saying at and you have
to accept so we can move on.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (06:05):
Except yeah, it was simple, that was easy. That was easy.
I'm going to start here. Okay, As you know, I've
I we have a lot of mutual friends and they've
all been guessed on this show. And we've talked about
this subject a lot. But my conclusion, and I want

(06:27):
your take on this. My conclusion is DMT is not
a drug. It's a key and there is a big
difference to that. And I have I've done everything right,
I've done everything. I've done it. Look at the guitars
behind me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've been down those roads

(06:51):
and and d m T is not that. And uh,
after after my first experience, when I got home, I uh,
I shouted out, I live alone, right, so you can
do this kind of stuff. I went, I went to

(07:12):
another world and I'm yelling right, And that's that's the
way that I look at it. It wasn't imagination. It
wasn't you know, brought on by a catalyst of something
else and then altering it. No, I truly believe I
was in another place period as real as this one,

(07:37):
and it was a key to the elevator to go
and do that. That's my take. Am I am I close?
Am I in the zone and saying something like that.

Speaker 1 (07:47):
Yeah, I mean, obviously were in full agreement. In fact,
one of the biggest allures that pulled me right away
into trying to find out what DMT was was an
old Joe Rogan rand before he had the pot. It
was like two thousand and seven, I think or six.
It was some radio show actually in Ohio, and he was,

(08:08):
you know, going off about it, and there was a
line in there that immediately I was already into psychedelics
since I was a little kid. You know, I was
a wild kid, so you know, that wasn't new to me.
But he said basically what you said, only he was
yelling and it was a windeliner. He said, it's not
a drug. So he said, it's not like you feel

(08:30):
like you're in another dimension. You are in another dimension.
And somehow I knew exactly what he means by that statement.
I said, wait a second, he wouldn't be saying it
that way unless that's actually what's kind of happening. So
then I immediately, you know, my ears kind of perked
up and I was like, what is he talking about?
And then I started listening to Terrence McKenna, and then

(08:51):
that's actually what got me interested in DMT originally. So, yeah,
you're not wrong. And as you know, as our mutual
friend Andrew gallum or h and actually in a second book,
Reality Switch Technologies, he conveys from a US scientific perspective
that actually, even from a US scientific perspective, forget about
what I'm saying. Uh, DMT is very hard to explain,

(09:15):
basically because of what you just said, because it does
not follow the same kind of even when you look
at the brain, it doesn't follow the same trajectory of
what you would expect to see in a hallucination.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, the brain has never seen this other reality before,
so it's got to compute and put it all back together.
You go outside into your front yard. Your brain doesn't
need to compute shit. It knows what grass is, and
knows what treat, knows what the street is. You know,
you don't. But with DMT, this is a completely brand
new world, atmosphere, thing reality, and your brain is now

(09:52):
learning it. That's that's that's the way that I feel.
And it's so bizarre to say these things and to
have people understand because it's it's truly, it's another world.
It's another thing that you've never experienced before.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Yeah, well that's exactly right. That that particular point is
exactly what he makes, which is that if you do
gentler psychedelics as column, which are not that gentle but
definitely gentler, and DMT like mushrooms or acid or whatever,
it's more kind of slight departures of your environment. The
tapestry might change a little. It kind of the drug

(10:29):
borrows from the environment, right, It makes colors be more
or whatever, things more glisten more. But with DMT, it's,
as Andrews says, it's a complete reality switch. So from
a perspective of a neuroscientist, those are brain model. Those
are world models. Your brain always guesses and like you said,
you go outside grass, it's all normal. It's like, okay,

(10:49):
the brain kind of guesses what's going to happen next,
and that's what it projects outwards, projects outwards. It's not
collecting information like a camera. So it's very hard to
explain how all of a sudden it has this completely
new set of environments and colors and dimensions. And by
the way, to anybody who's never done it before, it's

(11:11):
not like a comphony of nonsense. It's not just like
like craziness. No, it's super coherent on its own right,
just way more multifaceted, with so many more you know,
ways of things flowing into one another.

Speaker 2 (11:26):
But it's not nonsense, right, and it's not terrifying. That's
the I think there's a lot when and you're right
about and we're gonna move. We have a lot to
talk about tonight. But I do want to say this.
I listened to all of Rogan stuff too, including uh,
that interview from Ohio that you're referring to, and that

(11:48):
forced me into a lot of reading and artwork and
things and people's experiences and how they were so consistent.
That was the fascinating thing to me. But it also
scared me. I was a little nervous. I was like, ah, ooh,
I don't right. It was like, that's too intense. And

(12:09):
then when I had the experience, well that's plural now,
it was the most unterrifying comfortable thing ever. It was amazing.
It was It was just it's like going to a
foreign country that you've never been to before and you're
experiencing everything for the first time. You're smiling, you walk,

(12:30):
It was like that. It was it was the opposite
of fear. It was it was very welcoming and That
was amazing to me because I built up so much
anxiety about it and it turned out to be just wonderful.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
Well just just one thing to say, just like you.
For me, it's always a joy ride. But I think
we do have to introduce the caveat that it can
it can be terrifying for people, especially people who can't
go that easily, which by the way, nowadays it's almost
like a like a pejorative, but no, like it's okay,
like not everybody knows that to just let go right,

(13:07):
and people have different tolerance for novelty. I've noticed so
like for some people a little bit outside of the
bounds of what they wanted to consider to be true,
it feels really uncomfortable. It's something that Terrence McKenna used
to say a lot, which is that people always in
this mode of push, push, you know, find it, find it,

(13:29):
but people rarely stop and ask themselves what they would
do if they would. So it's like they never consider
what would happen if they actually find it in the
you know, in every community, whatever it is, your shiny object.
There's a version of that. And actually actually think it's
a very profound realization and there's worth thinking about. When
I did a few podcasts have to do with UFOs

(13:51):
and things like this, and in this realm, the shiny
object is the disclosure. Let's say, right, but like it,
find place yourself in your own shoes the day after.
It's an interesting thought experiment because because the build up
to it is amazing, right, everybody, you're like, oh my god,
oh my god, oh my god, oh my god. Okay,

(14:13):
let's say that happens or soon there you go. Imagine
the day after, what what do you.

Speaker 2 (14:19):
Do with it?

Speaker 1 (14:19):
Like? What do you.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Go to work?

Speaker 1 (14:21):
Do you And that's a really interesting thing to think about.
And I think with d MT that that distance collapses
for you. It's it's there, it's you're facing it. It's
for real and you go. So for some people that
just want to put that yeah you're right, not for everybody.

Speaker 2 (14:38):
Yeah, it's a non trivial point. That is, it's a
very powerful point to make. You're you're so right about
that the day after disclosure, you know, put yourself in
those shoes. What what how you know? And we all
want it, right, we all think about it, we all
talk about it. I don't know what that day after

(14:58):
is going to be like I truly don't, and we're
so close to maybe having these answers, including other realities
in parallel dimensions and parallel worlds, that these things science
says are real and one of the things that now

(15:22):
that's science, that's not you and I. In our community, right,
we tend to grasp these things. But now science is
pushing this on us. I would think that a really
good theoretical physicist would benefit from d MT. As a
matter of fact, you know what I say, You know

(15:42):
what I say. To get your PhD? You must I'm serious.
Wouldn't that just change the way that they look at everything?

Speaker 1 (15:53):
I already have the slogan is, if you want to
study the sky, you got to get high.

Speaker 2 (16:02):
So amazing now, so let's let's jump into what you've
called the discovery. And it truly was. When I was
told about the video and I went and watched it,
I got it. I gotta say it caused a lot
of anxiety with me. I mean, because you are, just

(16:25):
like you said, you're putting yourself into imagine putting yourself
in the shoes of exposing yourself to seeing something that
is not part of our normy world, right, And you
are exposed to that for the first time that I
don't know how you got to that point, but let's

(16:45):
talk about that. What led to the discovery.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
It's a long story. It stretched the full story maybe
stretches over ten years, maybe the from the moment I
started interacting with the thought of how to get to
some answers, maybe seven years. But it's a long story.
That's why the movie that's going to come out at
the end of the year is kind of following that trajectory.
The shortest version of that is that I've had, after

(17:16):
already many years of experience with DMD, all of a sudden.
So imagine if I've been, you know, been doing DMT
regularly for like five not every day, but like I
would do it here and there, and I would love
it for like over maybe a few years, five six,
seven years maybe, and all of a sudden, the other
sets of experiences started happening to me and to anybody

(17:37):
who'd never done it before. It's going to be on
the verge of impossible to communicate, how can it even be?
More of whatever that is, But for anybody who did
try it, so imagine the wild the experience that you
tend to have now imagine that all of a sudden
arranging itself in a perfectly very dialed into your pace

(18:00):
kind of execution where it's no longer like you sucked
into hyperspace, but literally they would come to my room
like augmented reality, like imagine, you know, just just literally
like you're seeing like Apple vision pro like that. And
at that point, and I started seeing beings not kind

(18:21):
of like in this ethereal realm or just feeling present
or seeing through my third eye, no, like straight up
like you like tangibility everything. At that point I just
no longer could. I could no longer entertain the idea
that this was just in my head now, given I
had the thoughts that maybe it's not in my head before,

(18:44):
but this was just beyond a shadow of without it.
There's no way my mind is just fabricating this. So
then I started asking the question seriously, okay, is there
a way to discern this? Because I was not satisfied
with the kinds of answers that I saw online. People
either are too a theory about it for me, or
they have some ancient, beautiful story which I have no

(19:05):
qualms or issues with, Like you know, the shamanic stories.
That's beautiful, but to me, that's one frame of perception.
I don't know if that's actually what's going on. That's
the story they're telling themselves, right, So maybe to some
degrees they're correct about these relationships. Maybe, but maybe it's
more than that and it's locked in this story. So

(19:25):
I was not happy with these ideas. Well, people, you're
right though, Yeah, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (19:30):
People struggle with new knowledge and trying to verbalize it
and turn it into words. You know. People struggle with
that because this is brand new to them, so they
do it the best ways that they can. I read
the same things that you did and came to the
same conclusions. But all after everything that I read, Danny

(19:55):
had nothing to do with my experience, you know.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
What I mean exactly. I would even go as far
as look, and I don't want to ruffle any feathers,
like I don't want to take anything away from anybody
who believes something strongly. But I'll tell you right away,
like when I heard these ideas. After I've done it
obviously quite a few times, when people start saying, maybe
it's involved in helping you dreaming, I'm like, what, it

(20:20):
doesn't look at all the same, like it has nothing
to do with it, and people kept on repeating it. It
was like it just doesn't make any sense to me.
So then just something wasn't quite right right, So I said, Okay,
I'm going to go and try and figure out if
there's any way we can determine whether it is mind
made so to speak, or existing on its own side

(20:40):
even when you're not looking, I e.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
Real.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
So then I started thinking about it, and that's the
lengthy process, which is actually kind of boring because it
was just like years and years of thinking about all
kinds of things, and you know, trying and nothing worked,
and reading some papers, trying to understand from a physics perspective,
what can work, what cannot work. The details of the
the actual thought process. We're actually quite technical at some point,

(21:04):
so that they have to do with They had to
do with the coherence and how exactly how it works.
I had to go into like the versus what the
pop culture tells you. I had to go to like
the details of it, like actually how it works or
how we understand it to work, like how the quantum
computers work, how they utilize coherence, how they stabilize coherence,
how they break the coherence like all of that stuff

(21:24):
is very technical, and because the simple idea for people
at home who have no interest in getting into the
weeds of physics, the simple idea is that in the
many worlds interpretation, you have this idea that whatever the
wave function is is an expression of the totality of
all possible histories. Okay, and then in some models, like

(21:48):
the Copenhagen interpretation, is like, the wave function collapses and
then there's one reality that actually is and then the
rest of it just stays this potential.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
Well, let me explain. That's a great point. That's a
great point. And so what Danny's referring to and I
sound like I'm a physicist, but when you have a
particle that's acting like a wave, or you have a wave,
right and you uh locate a specific point in that wave,
everything around the wave goes away and now you're only

(22:20):
at the location of that point, and that's the collapse.
So the wave, when you're at the point the wave
is no longer a wave. The wave turns into a
point of that wave, and that's the collapse of Yeah, yeah,
is that is that? Yeah? I'm trying to explain it
in my own Yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
If we really want to explain it, we have to
go through the mathematics. So right, but but but no,
you you you nailed it. That's that's the best like
simplest explanation you can give to somebody who has no
interest in getting into the real technicalities. The only difference
between the Copenhagen interpretation and the already an interpretation of
many worlds interpretation is that in the many worlds interpretation,

(23:05):
you don't think of the wave function collapsing into one
particle that you observe, but all the instances of the
wave in other words, all the particles that's made out
of they all exist. It's just that when you make
the measurement, you that particle decoheres. I know, it's a
confusing term because decoheres from what, Well, it decoheres from

(23:28):
the wave function and it becomes part of your worldline.
So now it decoheres from the wave function and it
becomes just you, part of your history. But the other
ones also exist, so they all collapsed, so to speak,
in that instance, but to different histories, and they all
execute it once. Now this sounds wild, even though it's fun,
you know, fun way to think about it. But here's

(23:51):
the kicker, and this is something coming from one of
the fathers of quantum computers, David Deutsch, who's the father
of the field of the Deutsch equations which made quantum
computers possible. So he definitely knows a thing or two
according to him, And it is true that some people
would contend with this, some other physicists, but according to him,

(24:12):
you can't possibly postulate any other world in which quantum
computers work, and we do know they work unless the
many world's interpretation is correct. So with literally the simple
way of saying it, with the way quantum's computer work is,
they utilize the lateral fact that computation is being run

(24:32):
through all the realities at once, and then we basically
use fancy equations to becket reverse engineer, what is the
probability of us being this or that part of the
wave function? But for all in terms of purposes, some
leading physicists would would absolutely insist that many worlds in
fact are real. Okay, And that's actually what was on

(24:54):
the on the kind of in my thoughts when I
was trying to figure it out, and I didn't think
of it in terms of simulation theory. I just thought, well,
whatever the DMT space is, it's some kind of an
orthogonal or adjacent or some kind of a dimension, but
it must be some parallel world of some sort or
something like that. But I figured, okay, but how do

(25:14):
we send a signal? Like how do they come here?
How can I see them? And they can't? And then
I can't see them? But can they see me when
I can't see it? Like? I was thinking about all
these possibilities, and then I was like, okay, but we
know that we can send at least one bit of
information in that instance of the coherence, So there's like
the second detect you can send a signal of some

(25:34):
sort between the dimensions. And that's what I was thinking about.
And that part it's a little clunky, I'll be honest,
because it's not. You can't justify this as a methodology.
But when I started thinking along these lines, hints just
started appearing for me, like hints galore, like just like

(25:55):
in regular life. And it was quite It wasn't like
small things. It was like random numbers that I would
pay attention to. And then it matches some kind of
a physics paper that would take me into some conclusion
and again, you know, go and present this as a
proof to any physicists, right, they're gonna laugh you out
of the room. This is schizophrenic behavior, which it is,
by the way. But then I figured, you know what,

(26:17):
I'm just not gonna I'm just gonna play this game.
Let's play a game. I'm gonna play this game. I'm
not gonna tell anyone, and if something comes out of it, awesome,
I'll share that. And until that moment comes, I'm just
gonna play that game. So I played the game. I
played the game for years, and let me tell you,
usually it's a goose chase. And almost every single time
it's a goose chase. So, to be quite honest, after

(26:41):
years and years of this and when everything that happened,
you'll see it in the film, how it actually actually
arrived at that But when I thought of the idea
of the laser, or to be more accurate, arrived at
that conclusion together with my now wife, she was a
key of some sort, and then we I tried it.
When I saw the laser, I didn't people ask me always,

(27:03):
how did you feel when you saw it for the
first time? You know, I don't know. I still don't know.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
It's did you? Did you? I'm going to I'm not
going to play the audio, but let me let me
pop this up here for everybody as I ask you
this next question.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
Over one hundred people, and I kept asking myself, how
are all of us?

Speaker 2 (27:25):
Let me mute this. You can't hear and I can. Okay,
so this is the laser that Danny's talking about here, so.

Speaker 1 (27:31):
Uh uh yeah, those are the characters.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah, okay, So so anyway, what did what? Was it
instant the first time through?

Speaker 1 (27:40):
Did you see yes? Yes, yeah. For some people it
takes some time. Now we know there's a good percentage
of people that take them some time to see it.
But it's a one way street. You will see it
if you keep trying. I saw it from across the
room immediately. It was a little blurry in the beginning.
I think it has something to do with the amount
of information that your brain has to deal with that
is completely new, and it is an enormous field of

(28:03):
these things. It's like infinitely into the z axis. It's
kind of hard to discern at the beginning what's happening,
But when your brain fully resolves it, it kind of
snaps into place, and you see this like super clear
HD field of these characters doing something, and they're constructed
in such a way that they make some kind of
a hyper object, which which is everywhere. You can project

(28:25):
it on your skin, you can project it on anything
and any material, and it just seems to be made.
Actually it makes these literally like bucky balls, like like
kind of like a field of soccer balls, and that
the dis code is arranging itself around, and that it's
arranged in these column they're kind of moving around, and
they also switch in one spot like the old airports,

(28:47):
you know, like that like the characters switch or an
old suitcase or whatever. So that's kind of how there's
a few degrees of freedom and to anybody. And by
the way, I completely understand this pushback that I get
from scientists and non scientists alike, from skeptics. It's like, hey, man,
you're like, you're telling us everything, so of course we're
going to be influenced. We're going to see it. I

(29:08):
get it. But trust me, there's no don't worry. The
one thing to consider is that if you think it's priming,
so you should be able to unprime or reprime to
something else. But the truth is that no matter what
you do after itat resolves to that, you can't shake
that off no matter what. Imagine whatever you want, Bring

(29:30):
what is it? What's his name? Oz Perlman, the expert,
manipulate your brain? Whomever you want. Bring the biggest worlds
expert in priming and have them primed giraffes into your
head or owls or anything else, you know what? Even
language that is different looking enough, so if you're going
to say like sans creator things that kind of we
don't know, so it's kind of hard to discern which

(29:53):
one is what? Then maybe but ask them to like
code a different language into your brain. It looks different enough.
Can't do it? Always that impossible And that's why it's
not really And by the way, there's so much specificity
in there that I wouldn't worry too much. In fact,
one of the things that we're trying to do now
is to see we basically started a nonprofit called Code

(30:15):
of Reality and we do what we call cognitive physics.

Speaker 2 (30:21):
Now.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
I'm aware that it's pretty loaded to make up your
own terms, but we just couldn't find any better kind
of like field description because it's not quite just pure physics.
I guess the way we define it is that the
difference between cognitive physics and physics is that in cognitive
physics we no longer take the observer out of the
equation we're saying, even though we know it creates a

(30:43):
lot of problems in terms of what mathematicians called a
handle call a handle, which is like, what is it? Like,
how am I putting this into the equation? What are
you talking about? Right? But okay, but for all intentsive purposes,
we're gonna take into account of fact that somebody is
seeing it, and how does that fit into the equation

(31:04):
of what's going on. We're gonna we're gonna do our
best to not remove this from the picture. And this
is what science was in the business for a long time. Which,
by the way, it's fine, I have no qualms with
that whatsoever. It was necessary to build a beautiful world
we now have and allows us to do what we're
doing right now, no doubt. But it's time that we
can no longer sweep the observer under the rug. It's

(31:25):
just it's not gonna squash itself, like, we have to
actually address this and that's what That's what we're trying
to do. So what we're doing under cognitive physics, we're
trying to see is there anything we can do at
all physically, mentally, spiritually, however, we're open to anything. Is
there anything we can do to influence the code in
a way that we will all agree?

Speaker 2 (31:46):
Well? Because that okay, so check this out. You brought
up Copenhagen, Neil's boor whatever. Right, you brought all this up, right,
I think you even mentioned Everett. Right, Okay, so you
know the world of physics apparently so do why But
here's the thing. If there is one problem that anybody

(32:08):
in physics will tell you is the problem, it's observation
and measurement, Right, that's the two. So could this fill
in those gaps for the for those two huge issues
in physics? Could could this be you know, something that
that's been the holy grail? Right? Could it be the answer?

Speaker 1 (32:33):
I think there's a good chance that it would help
travel some distance between the seeming insurmountable distance of the
hard problem of consciousness, like what what is it? What
is this relationship between the what what we are when
we observe and the thing that we observe because all
answers so far from all directions, they're not very satisfactory.

(32:56):
They're not satisfactory from physics because they're like, well, the
observer is little informational wiggle on top of a very
large system that doesn't care. I don't know that got
in my book. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think
you've done enough substance with my friend.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
Right, right? But isn't isn't that key though? Where here
we have the educated uh physicists scientists of the world.
That it's not just physicists, right, it's it's it's it's
all of formal education when you get into the scientists.
But is this they want to convince us of simple

(33:38):
things like the slit experiment, right, and wave collapse, even entanglement.
Right that just observing matter, you can change its state.
But I don't believe in ghosts. Right, It's just like
wait a minute, Wait a minute. As as as a scientist,
you're telling me that I can obser deserve something and

(34:02):
change its state, but you don't believe in spirituality or
other things. It's it's like, wait a minute, you can't
have it both ways or can you?

Speaker 1 (34:15):
So the way that I see it is. It's a
it's a battle of frames, and it need not be.
So what I mean by that is that the other
side of this equation is equally unsatisfactory. For example, people
tend more in spiritual communities, which I see myself belonging
more to. Let's say, they say things like you create
your own reality. It's all just a manifestation of your mind.

(34:38):
M walk through a wall. So and then there's all
kinds like when they're faced with this, to them, what
seems not to be a conundrum for some reason, they're like, oh,
well no, I mean you know, it's all in agreement.
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, we will agreed. It's a wall.
It's like do you know that though, Like you don't

(34:58):
know that? Like why is the wall a wall? And
why is my imagination so much more malleable? That answer
needs to be answered, right, So no matter where you look,
there seems to be That's what I mean by battle
of frames. People have a frame, so they have kind
of like a way they see the world, and they
try to make everything comport to that, like they belong
to that, like that that has to be the way

(35:20):
things are under that banner. If you are not open
to these observations, and you don't do any work on
yourself like most mainstream scientists like spiritually, yeah, you're not
going to be open to feelings of actual energy and
things like that. You're not gonna feel it because you're
not open to that. But equally, I think, uh, wrongly,

(35:41):
people kind of negate the very obvious. No you can't fly,
No you can't walk through a wall. And there seems
to be a reason for this. So even if you believe,
which like myself, that even if the like an idealistic perspective, right,
which is the universe is just mind. It's all an
enormous mind, which I believe if that's the case. So
I'm very much with Donald Hoffman and Bernardo Castrup on

(36:04):
these things. But you still, if you are interested in
answering the real questions, you still have to grapple with
the fact that, even though it's all mine, for some reason,
some regions of this mind collapse into some kind of
behaviors that are regular enough to call them the laws
of physics. That's okay, Like it's not mutually exclusive. So

(36:26):
then we now we're cooking right now, we were okay, Now,
how do we describe it altogether without competing, no need
for battle of the frames. If you spiritually minded, Yes,
you're right. There's a lot more to this world and
what we can do as conscious beings than what scientists
would like to admit. You're right. However, you're not right

(36:46):
by throwing away kind of like the baby with the bathwater,
because science brought about enormous advances because they understood something
about what the world is doing that we wouldn't be
able to do if we were just you know, guess
all day.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
I mean, man, I love this conversation, but here's the
point that you're making. Science. You are not going to
consciously get rid of an infection in your tooth without
antibiotics or you're going to die. You're not going to

(37:24):
think your way out of that. Science has brought us that,
But that doesn't mean that science understands consciousness or the
power of it and what it can do for you.
Is consciousness the answer to everything, a lot of it,
but it's not going to replace penicillin or antibiotics.

Speaker 1 (37:45):
Makes sense, Well, maybe everything you said I fully agree
with it. You summarize it perfectly the way that I
resolved this issue or at least to my mind, was
somewhat with resolution. We say, okay, instead of thinking about
in terms of competition or who's right, how about we
actually reframe what we're really doing. And I think that

(38:09):
what we have to do is to basically take science
and expand into what it expanded into what it really
is or what it should be. So for me, capital
as science is simply the enterprise of human understanding, or
if you want to go wider, the enterprise of understanding

(38:29):
full stop. And then what are the modalities you're using
to do that? That's up for grabs. So far, this
science was defined only as this very tiny sliver that
measures the world according to this modality of testing, observation,
measurement with external devices. And that's good, we should do that,

(38:53):
but we might want to reframe and just think about, Okay,
what are we really in the business of. In science,
we try to understand the world. Great, what do you
do to understand the world? You look at it closely,
whatever it is that you're trying to study. You find regularities,
You find ways to communicate the regularities and write them
in more and more formal ways so they don't have

(39:14):
to be repeated in all kinds of different ways, and
then you communicate it to others and you watch if
they can replicate it as well. Right, sounds pretty scientific. Well,
guess what you just describe meditation. If you're talking about
the inner world, that is the science of the inner world.
You observe really closely at what happens to inner world
when you under certain conditions, and you repeat these, and

(39:38):
then you communicate them and people practice them and they
can achieve the same results. Here you go. Meditation is
the science of the inner experience. It is, no, it's
I don't mean it metaphorically. It is now currently that's
the best tools we have. Maybe with more advance we
start merging them. Maybe with more advanced tools like neurallink,
you can have meditators who are really good at this

(40:00):
inner science now finding new domains of understanding because they
have these extra tools that we use from material science.
We basically want to bring a situation where they're left
in the right hemisphere of humanity, start talking to each
other instead of constantly thinking that it's some kind of
a headbutting competition of who's right about that.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
It's such a fascinating it's a conundrum too, and The
conundrum is science will always fight consciousness, right, they have
the line in the sand drawn, right. They don't want
to they don't want to discuss the C word, but
they know it exists, right, And getting into deterministic or

(40:39):
you know, no free will and all of that, everything
is math and particles are going to do what they're
going to do. You've got to get out of that
and expand out past it. And that is a difficult
thing for scientists. They may think these things and maybe
even believe them, but they're not going to talk about them.

(40:59):
And there's certainly in public right or in a classroom.
It is a tough, tough, uphill battle, isn't it. It is?

Speaker 1 (41:11):
But but I do think I'm a little bit more optimistic.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh I am to give everybody d m T. Everybody
get your peak. Let me let's let's let's let me
say something so we can circle back. My first d
MT experience. I just interviewed Andrew Gallimore and it was
like on a Monday, and I was like, Okay, well,

(41:36):
you know what, now's the time, all right, So I
make the phone call and I do and I go
and that I did it that Friday, right, and I'm
not going to sit here and talk about what I
saw or what I did or this and that. No, no, no,
we've all heard those stories. But this was the intention

(41:57):
that I set, you know what. The intention was, just
show me what I need to talk about to the public.
And I set that intention all week long. That was
my intention. That was it. I didn't have any daddy issues.
I didn't need to quit Heroin you know, or whatever.
You know, none of that, none of that, none of
that self help stuff. Just show me what I need

(42:22):
the world that you want the world to know. You
just show me and I'll convey it through media and after. Okay,
So the first thing that happened, and that's all I'm
gonna say, is my eyes were open, right, and this
sign pops out of the wall and it's an arrow

(42:45):
curving down and it says enter here. Right. It's like
five seconds right, five seconds right, and it pops out
enter here, and I went, okay, all right. And then
in front of me on the wall, this door, this
whole thing and the enter here, and I just closed

(43:07):
my eyes and there was a voice behind me that said, okay,
let's go. And I didn't turn around and look now,
fast forward. I'm driving home. Half hour later. Man, I'm
driving home, and I'm thinking about the whole thing. That
wasn't a hallucination, you know, and I'm resolving it in

(43:32):
my head. Right, wait a minute, Okay, it was amazing,
but that shit was real. It wasn't a hallucination. That's
the incredible thing. And so that's why I think a
scientist could, you know, be exposed to this and just go,
you know what, man, there is something else going on. Okay,

(43:56):
I've blocked this off. There is a reason to go
forward with this. And that's why I think it's so
dynamic and so important.

Speaker 1 (44:05):
And I think it's exactly the situation that, you know, eventually,
when there's enough on the table, which I believe there
is at this point, at that point, if scientists are
not open enough to revise some of their methodology to
include what our direct observation can bring about. It is

(44:28):
very similar to the Catholic Church refusing to look through
the Microsoft through the telescope.

Speaker 2 (44:33):
It is a galileo, Yeah, it is.

Speaker 1 (44:35):
It is absolutely it's the same situation, basically, and it
is the insistence that the way we know is the
only way to know, and that that's and it's funny
how people end up on the other side of the
coin when they don't pay close attention quickly too.

Speaker 2 (44:52):
The universe has a way of slapping people like that,
you know, fairly quickly. The Okay, so that reality that
I'm talking about, and when I say reality, I've stressed
this with everybody. It's just as real as me holding
this crystal in my hand. Okay, it's like that. It
is absolutely that period. There isn't another This isn't pink

(45:15):
elephants running around with unicorns, you know, and some Disney
cartoon who knew. No, it is a reality. But when
you looked into the laser and you saw the code,
how how real was it? And how quickly did you
accept it?

Speaker 1 (45:36):
No, it was immediately apparent, Like it's immediately apparent that
it's like, oh, oh my god, what like it? Because
it's not even just like you would everything you just said,
only it's actually a lot more mundane in that it
just kind of it's like, what do you would imagine
like some kind of an infinite digital clock to look like,

(45:57):
but it's super stable, doesn't have this This is the
point that Chase used me that I never actually I
would never think about making this point, but I guess
he's a neuroscientist, so it came to him. He said
that with hallucinations, then there's an unfolding, there's a there's
an arc because the digestion of the substance in your
in your system, but the code you just smoke a

(46:21):
little bit and just kind of comes into view. You
smoke more, it becomes clear, and then it just dissipates.
Its just there. It's it's almost like you put three
D glasses and you took them off. You put three
D glasses and you took them off, and you just
see it and it it kind of hovers in there
in some kind of a subspace. So it's not quite

(46:42):
true to say that it's in the wall. It's where
the wall is, but the space it's in it's almost
like a little disjointed from what the wall is. The
only way I can describe it without sounding annoying with
these like circular descriptions. You know how if you open
between if in a mood moving train, if you open
one of the carts and you see the other cart

(47:04):
moving right like that in relationship to you, kind of
jumping around like this, So imagine that only if there
will be a cart within a cart, So like there's
a cart, another cart moving inside the wall. But the
whole structure is super coherent in its own right. It
the closest thing it is, which is some woman that
came to see it. She said this, it looks like

(47:25):
you're looking through a microscope into a whole new universe
he didn't know existed. It's there. You're just looking at
it through this crack of light, basically, and that's how
it appears. It's just super stable, highly highly specific, and
it's it doesn't have this vagueness. It's it's like super sharp.
People report to me all the time. The most common

(47:45):
message I get, the most common email I get. I
see the code without the laser. Well, I see the
code without the substance, even and true, some people can
see these codes, I now know. But what's interesting is
that there's different codes, there's different layers of these codes.

Speaker 2 (48:00):
What we're seeing.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
The laser stands out in that it's way more specific
than all the other codes that people see, and it's
not malleable. You can't change it. Usually, people that are
spiritually more advanced, they can kind of influence these codes
that they see they can change the content or behavior
things like this. I had people who not people who

(48:23):
just say they are, but like people who have track
records that they're kind of known to have, like a
really good standing record of being powerful spiritual practitioners came
with a lot of confidence. They said, Oh, I got you,
let me show you. And then they're like, I'm going
to influence it and pop kiss. Like they came out perplexed.

(48:43):
They're like what, Like they were so confused. They're like,
I don't understand. It's like, yeah, it seems to be
coding for physical reality. Like so it's not a trivial
question about physical reality, Like this is a it's going
to be super obscure, but I want to say it
anyway because I'm people to try this. We The biggest

(49:05):
question mark in the mind of everything that exists everywhere,
I think is the why it's dude? Why like what? Seriously? Like,
you know, it might hit you only if you get
a little stone or whatever, but some people are pretty
introspective when it finds you and like it hits you right,
and you go like dude, wait, but it's crazy. Why

(49:26):
why why anything? Why me? Like it kind of hits you, right,
But it's that question is always revolving around the me
question somehow the central thing is the thing that maybe
doesn't bother you, but that's the thing that you're asking
the question about. Next time you do this, flip it around,
go to the ground. So and better if it has

(49:47):
some kind of a texture that you can kind of
feel the difference. It can be like a table or
or a rog of some sort, or maybe even a
hard floor. Just kind of put your fist to the
floor and just kind of like tap it gently and
really be with that moment of the of the touching
it instead of just assuming, oh, no, I know it's
all mine. Just wipe that clean, touch it and go

(50:10):
what is this? What is that that? I'm like, what
is this? Touch?

Speaker 2 (50:17):
What is this?

Speaker 1 (50:18):
Even if you want to say it's all in the mind, look,
but there's something about that. The rigidity of matter is
really interesting. It's not just it's not just a whatever
question That very that profundity is encapsulated for me. I'm
sure you're familiar with Michael Levine, the biologist is now
kind of revolutionizing biology and because of the nature of

(50:40):
his work, and if you guys are not familiar, highly
wacome when you look him up, is amazing and because
of the nature of his work, seems to be touching
on these more slightly metaphysical concepts, even though he's very
you know, regular scientist who works in a lab and
does things. So they ask him one in an interview,
do you consider yourself more of an idealist? In other words,

(51:00):
do you believe that mind is fundamental? Or do you
consider yourself more of a physicalist? And he gave a
very interesting answer. He said, you know, I actually think
of more of a physicalist, with the caveat that I'm
not so sure we know what physical is right that,
you know what I mean? Yes, that really struck me.

(51:22):
I was like, okay, I think that's that's Try this next.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
Thing, do you think? Okay? So observing the code and
again I don't want to sound basic here, but I
think this is on everybody's mind code. And I've talked
about this a lot only because I have a twisted,
dark mind and I'm thinking about these things. The code

(51:48):
exists around us in infinite all the time. Right now,
it's surrounding you, it's surrounding me. Anybody listening to this
show it's it's here, and and it's always been here, right,
it's right everything. Yeah, yeah, it's always been here. After

(52:09):
I watched your I wanted to say this really quick.
I'm gonna make you laugh. After I watched your video videos.
This was a while ago, but just by chance, the
friggin' matrix is on. And now I wasn't thinking about you, right,
I just wasn't. I thought, man, I haven't seen that

(52:31):
in a while. Okay, all right, okay, let's let's go
ahead and do this. So I'm watching the intro the
you know, the beginning with the and I went, oh,
that's the code. Oh crap, and it just all came
back to me. So I thought, is that prophetic? And
then Wakowski's right and right, yes, but you understand what

(52:55):
I'm saying it. You know, I had the both of
you back to back and it was pretty intern. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:00):
So so, first of all, simulation works in mysterious ways. Secondly,
I think my answer to that would be, Okay, maybe
maybe I'm exaggerating with the I don't think so. I
think it's not quite that, but it is something like that.
So I think what it is is that artists are
very dialed in, and sometimes they have some feeling that

(53:24):
they don't even know that it's coming through them because
they think it's either just like they just oh, it
just came to me, Like because famously the Watchovsky brothers
sorry now sisters, one of them went, I don't know,
so yeah, yeah, so no, I'm not making fun. I
truly don't know, because I think.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
I don't know. Dude. I died down. I dive down
that rabbit hole when I first found out the news,
and I never got a straight answer from any anything
on their status. It's weird.

Speaker 1 (53:55):
That's how they are they there you go, uh the
famously they use a sushi menu and they reverse the
symbols and that's the symbols you see in the thing.
But what I think is going on is that, first
of all, the simulation does definitely kind of throw you
the throws you these like winks once in a while
to kind of help you get to like the next understanding,

(54:17):
and I think this was one of them. It just
they maybe thought that they did it for some other reason,
but I think it was more like the simulation was
just coming through. And to be quite honest, it doesn't
quite look like Japanese. What was It's more kind of
like a hybrid between Japanese, Hebrew and maybe Sanskrit. But
it's none of those things. It's need none of them.

(54:37):
It's just that it's it's we managed to isolate a
few symbols that everybody reports, but the rest of it
is kind of hard because there's so many of them.
They're moving really fast and enough for you, there's enough
coherence there for you to clock it with your attention
when it's moving and you see it's a thing, But

(54:57):
when you try and like focus on it, it's it's
really hard, Like it's really hard to like we managed
to do it. We actually we have a new website
we built called veil break dot Ai where people can
go and share their reports anonymously and it create their
own kind of repository of it, almost like a repot literally,
and and they can see other people's reports, and soon

(55:20):
people will be able to also upload their images and
on this court we have a bunch of people reporting these,
but it's not quite Japanese. Another one that I actually
think that another instance like this where it kind of
came through art. I actually think the Douglas Adams was
actually quite onto something, and he would never think that

(55:42):
because he was a sworn atheist and he was a
very scientifically minded person. He would completely shun me and
everything that I'm doing. And I love him. I like
it was my favorite series of books, The hit Trackers
Get through the Galaxy. And he only got one thing wrong.
He is in the book the Sorry spoiler alert if

(56:03):
you never read it, but in the book, the Earth
is the computer that calculates the ultimate question. But the
only thing you got wrong is the scale. It's the multiverse,
but it is doing that. The multiverse is calculating the
ultimate question. That's basically what all the simulations are for.
So I think that very often it comes through the

(56:25):
artists in ways that they themselves just don't expect.

Speaker 2 (56:29):
You. You said one thing, I want to jump back
before we get to the break about it's it's a
little bit distant right through and and one of uh,
it's been a while since I've seen it, but one
of your uh, one of the people in in in

(56:52):
one of the videos said it's in the wall. It's
not on the wall. And that's what you were explaining
with the trains, right, not.

Speaker 1 (57:01):
On the surface. Ye, right, it's not on the surface.
It's almost like that itch that you can't scratch in
the knee. You don't know where it is. You're trying
to find it, and you're like, ah, where is it,
like inside somewhere.

Speaker 2 (57:13):
I know what you're talking about, But could that be?
Could that be the layers of dimensions? In other words,
are you seeing through one dimension and another one and
getting to maybe a third dimension back and that's where
you know what I mean, it's still a little veiled.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
It's funny that you ask that because one of my
recent I'm constantly working on the theoretical framework, and one
of my recent most recent ideas is that what we're
looking at is a fourth fourth dimensional object spinning and
every time it spins into our third dimension, the wall

(57:54):
that it exhibits its three dimensional surface. Every time it
spins in our direction, that's where we see the light reflecting,
And that's actually what we're seeing. That's why it's so confusing,
because it moves out into some fourth dimension that we
can't quite understand. And this is what we can maybe
approach just more in detail after the break. But I
managed to a few times to do something with the

(58:18):
observation in such a way that it rotated and then
I could see everything in three D at once, which
usually can only happen if you're looking from some kind
of a fourth direction. So it's almost like I the
software in my brain can do the four D rotation,
but maybe not the the the hardware would definitely not

(58:43):
be but the even the what would be the firmware
of the brain. So like the architecture of the way
you perceive the three dimensional space can't do it because
it's designed for three D, but the software can. You
can teach yourself how to rotate in four D. Actually
now I don't know enough about it yet to say
with enough confidence, but I managed to do it a

(59:04):
few times. If we can replicate this in on the individuals,
then I'll definitely be reporting on this well.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Brian Green, well another physicist too as well. But Brian
Green talks about this a lot. And one of the
things when he gets into string theory and I can
talk to you about this, I think you understand the
basics of this is that and you can jump in
if I start sounding stupid. But one of the things

(59:30):
that Brian Green says, he goes, look, when we're talking
about eleven dimensions. It's not that, although it can be
large spaces in between dimensions, but I'm talking about plank
scale distances in between the dimensions and the thicknesses of

(59:52):
those dimensions. It's accessing. If you are inside that dimension,
it looks normal. But to us trying to measure it
and trying to make sense of it, we're talking about
very very small things. And with what you are describing
to me here is very similar to what Brian Green

(01:00:13):
and his math is telling him. It's very similar, isn't it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
I know, not quite so these these postulated dimensions, in
specifically what you're talking about, he's talking about m theory,
where the postulation. The postulation is eleven dimensions, and then
the eleventh dimension is this infinitely long, infinitely small, curled
up dimension. And quite a few of them are super
small dimensions.

Speaker 2 (01:00:40):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
But yeah, but not all of them have to be
super small. It's just that the reason they postulate that,
the reason we can't experience them is because they curled
up into these tiny spaces. Now there's another This is
one way of seeing it, right, if you look at
just classical physics or just the equations I Signian physics,

(01:01:02):
then the bulk or space time itself is four dimensional,
like when you go through wormholes, you know, theoretical wormholes,
you go, you're moving through this fourth dimension. Now, again,
it depends on the exact frame you're looking at, because
some physicists insist that no, no, no, no, it's a
it's a it's a natural So like the four dimensionality

(01:01:26):
of it is kind of like a natural arising property
of its of its topology. It's not quite the same
as an actual fourth dimension. There's all kinds of dances
they do around it. I'm just telling you what makes
sense to me in terms of everything I've absorbed so
far and the theoretical framework we're working with, which is
the holographic principle, and what we think is happening. The

(01:01:47):
beautiful thing about this is that what I'm saying right
now is testable. It's like, if I'm wrong, certain things
can't possibly be true. So if we do these things
and they fail, then I'm wrong. Like it's just not
for dimensional. A lot of rotating, and that's the kinds
of things that we're trying to do in code of reality.

Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Basically, Man, that's fascinating. Let's take our break, right here.
Danny Gohler's with us tonight. Is somebody. Oh Danny, somebody
posted in the chat at the beginning of the show
and you'll never escape this. By the way, is this
the laser guy? Oh yeah, yeah, you're the laser guy. Man,
you're the laser guy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
You know. They they don't they don't do mistakes. The
reason I think they're part of the way that they're
revealing everything in this way is because they understand meaning
better than you can even well any of us can comprehend.
This is the most memorable message ever DMT lasers, DMT lasers.

(01:02:43):
I was like, this is genius. This is genius. They
thought of everything.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
Yeah, let's let's do T shirts next. Danny, stay right there.
We're gonna take our break our you knows, Jimmy Church,
this is Fade to Black. Stay with us. We'll be
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(01:03:33):
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(01:04:19):
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Okay, November twenty twenty six, We're going to have our
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(01:08:39):
I am your host sum Church and I Danny Kohlers
with us. We're talking about d MT, the Code of Reality.
We've got Danny's links in the description below, on our
website and throughout social media. And uh, Danny, you're going
to be at the Conscious Life Expo with me this year.
What are you going to be talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:08:59):
I'm going to be talking about cognitive physics and the
horizon of the new Horizon of knowledge as we call it.
And it's going to be basically the whole spiel I
just gave you in a few words, but with more
actual logical stuffs along the way, and what led to
what and how we view the future of science and

(01:09:19):
spirituality and how they actually connect. How do we actually
bring this about?

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
Yeah, we need to evolve, right, We've got to continue
evolution and the only the next step, Danny, I say
this all the time. This is great, This is great stuff. Right,
you and I doing what we're doing right? Now great stuff.
I love the quantum world, I love science, I love all.
But we've taken things pretty damn far. We haven't figured

(01:09:49):
out consciousness. And that is if we are going to
achieve our place in the universe, we've got to just
tap out and go and figure out what's going on.
And I commend you for not only pushing this forward,
but it seems that we have amnesia. I love traveling

(01:10:13):
the world and I love to One of my favorite
things to do is to smell the ancient megalithic sites.
There's an odor that you get, you know, when you
step into these things. But you look, and I swear, Danny,
all I see is a d MT world. When I
go to these ancient sites. It's like, man, they were

(01:10:35):
locked in, especially Peru, right, you get you're like, uh,
what did they know? And why did we forget it?
I'm not far off the mark, am I.

Speaker 1 (01:10:48):
Well, I mean that it was the whole rolling people's
heads off staircases.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
But you know, well, there's there's always an outlier. There's
always an outlier. What are you gonna do? Yeah, you
know it's kind of funny. Yeah, you go to Cheats
and Itza, right, and you look up and you're like, man,
that's amazing, and then you're thinking, how many bodies rolled
down those steps, you know, the pile of bodies at

(01:11:13):
the bottom of that after four days, Right, Yeah, of
doing with that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:18):
But no, I think I think you're right. Yeah, I
think I think ancient civilizations definitely. Well, I mean, first
of all, they had a lot more attention on their hands.
There was not that many people to pay things to
pay attention to. And yeah, they were a lot more
dialed into the immediate experience, of course, and just like
everything else, the less attention you pay it it atrophies.
So I think that some portion of humanity continued with

(01:11:42):
the practices of paying attention to our inner world and
understood quite a bit about it, and the other half
decided we're going to explore the outer world. And this
is exactly what we're after.

Speaker 2 (01:11:54):
Now.

Speaker 1 (01:11:54):
We believe that the laser is one of the first things.
There will be others, and maybe there were exist and
that are connecting them. But we also have to play
the role of the bridge. We have to understand that
and then connect it inside of us. It's almost like
imagine these cables arriving both ends of these things, but
they connect inside so when even when they enter their

(01:12:17):
our heads, we actively still have to make the connection
ourselves and then it opens. It actually opens both of
these channels together in a way that we could never
do before. This is why I keep saying, it's not
a battle, it's not a competition, it's how do you
make them fit? And you don't do that by pretending
to know things you don't know, and you don't. I'm

(01:12:38):
saying this to both sides, and you don't do that
by vilifying and chastising the other side for just doing
what they believe is the correct and the best way.
And I think that's where the majority of the work
is going to be around that, which is just how
do you reframe it from competition to collaboration and then

(01:13:00):
I think most things will simply fall into place. There's
a I think that evolutionarily, it did make sense for
a little while to play the competition game. It's a
good strategy to make things happen people. It's an energy source, right,
It animates you like, we got to be there first,
and maybe for certain kinds of things that we've built,

(01:13:22):
that was required, and that's fine. But what I believe
is happening is so when you know, when we moved
from like simpler needs, like before the agricultural revolution, were
really started like taking shape the more modern world, mostly
because of the arising of surplus. The second you have surplus,
you have this like intuition that you want to protect it,

(01:13:44):
and then all the stuff kind of you know, move
cascades from there. But before that, the need was a
lot simpler, and because of that, there was no need
so much for these sophisticated like you would outcompete the thing,
the game you're hunting, but not like there would be disputes,
but it wouldn't be on this like these Mechiavelian levels.

(01:14:06):
I think that only arose when we started kind of
like creating this you know mind, kind of very strong
sense of mind, and of course it exists in all primates,
but we took it to a whole lot of level
in terms of scale. And I think what's happening now,
just like we compare ourselves with the people of the past,
let's compare ourselves to the people of the future. Now.

(01:14:26):
I think that what's happening is that from purely a
pragmatic perspective, the reason that it we have to shift
to a more collaborative model, that is the energy of
the fuel, that that energy fuel that we want to
make us want to do things. Then competition is because

(01:14:46):
the scales, both space and temporal scales are gonna be
so much faster that all the competition base models will
simply not hold because they're too myopic, they're too short
lived to be able to to see the vision in full.
If you now, a lot of people at this point
kind of like, you know, don't even like the examples

(01:15:06):
of the card chef scale just because it's like, oh,
you're still with that old thing. I'm just using it
as an example, even if we just want to use
something as simple as kind of the idea of the
card chef scale, right in terms of how much energy
and structure level we can control in the universe. So
level one controls the planet, Level two controls the sun,
Level three controls the galaxy, and so and so on, and
so okay, if you're going to build a dice in sphere,

(01:15:30):
right and again, I just I have this experience. Now
I say one thing and people are like, well that's
not possible, just forget it.

Speaker 2 (01:15:36):
It's just I'm going with it. I'm going with it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:39):
No, just to anybody who's like immediately like ripping their heads.

Speaker 2 (01:15:42):
Up, it's just you and I.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
It's just an example. Yeah, right, So if you want
to build something an enormous structure around the sun, let's
say you can't go about this in terms of competition,
because that's a plan you have to devise for a
thousand years. You have to think. You can't think about
the next four or fiscal years, like it's just a
work like you get well, if they do this, there's

(01:16:05):
just too much uncertainty and these kind of time scales,
so you will never be able to compete there. The
only way you can do this is if you can
create a trust society that allows for this collaborative fuel.
So why do we compete? Competition fuels energy. It's like
it drives you right to do things. Well, you can

(01:16:27):
take drive. You can discern meaning from other things, like
for example, collaboration, but it needs to be in such
a way that everybody values it because what we we
derive meaning out of is connection, and in the competition model,
the connection comes from people's praiser. So the connection you
feel is like, well you did something good, you arrived

(01:16:48):
there first, you get praised, and everybody wants to be
in that position. So for them, that's the drive. For you,
it's the drive because I feel good because people praising me.
But if we all start valuing this collaborative model and
all of a sudden, meaning is going to start coming
through just the interaction itself, Like we get to sit
in a room and think about this really fun thing

(01:17:09):
puzzle to solve, and we're just going to have a blast.
That's really energizing if and only if the rest of
society values it too, because otherwise, if everybody are competing
and you just trying to collaborate, yes, in some cases
you might win in small scales, but ultimately you will
be kind of you know, people will bulldozer over you.

(01:17:31):
So we have to just kind of arrive at this conclusion.
Convincing people is not gonna work, and no amount of
incentives or forcing will ever do that. The only way
to do this is to make people understand why we
have to do that, to make that vision clear for them.
So I like to think about it, just like people

(01:17:52):
like Elon building physical vehicles to do certain things on
mass on scale, we need to start building conceptual vehicles
to help ourselves see that vision of where we want
to go and how we want to look when we go.
It would et step into it.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
Would et speed that up. Not not et but the
knowledge of us not being alone in the universe, right,
and that coming in on a world scale where you
have eight and a half billion people suddenly understanding that
we are not alone in the universe. Now we have
to start thinking like earthlings and stop competing. We got

(01:18:31):
to get out of the primitive mindset and move on
as earthlings, not countries divided by borders and religions and
politics and economy and everything else. Now get rid of
all of that and start thinking like earthlings. Wouldn't et
that that reveal, wouldn't that wouldn't that create a global consciousness?

Speaker 1 (01:18:54):
It would have to do with the exact specifics of
how they reveal themselves and for what reasons.

Speaker 2 (01:18:58):
I'm not even suggesting a big reveal, but three I
Atlas cruising by, right, it doesn't have to stop by.
But if it is proven to be not natural, that
it's a at relic, that's all we need, right?

Speaker 1 (01:19:15):
Yeah? But no, absolutely, Well, I'm not so sure that
it's all you need because You're still going to have
people that would if they're under the impression that the
old model should work, they will still find ways to
just capitalize on this and not care about anybody else.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
The field of grass Tyson is still going to be
Neil de grass Tyson, right. But but yeah, but I'm
waiting for that moment too now. And here's the other
thing you brought up, a really good point. Agriculture allowed
the ability to start using your mind because you weren't

(01:19:50):
thinking about survival before agriculture. Dude, you just had to
live through the night, right, you had to survive, man,
be you didn't want to get eaten. These were real,
These were that was your daily thought. How do I
make it through the day, sleep through the night so
I can get up tomorrow and go and dig for
food somewhere. Right, But agriculture allowed that to stop. And

(01:20:16):
now suddenly competition is in play everything else, and you
can use your brain for other things besides survival. You know,
before agriculture, if you're using your brain, you know, you're
out on the savannah going wow black holes. Right. Well,
then all of a sudden you get eaten. Right, you

(01:20:37):
can't be Archimedes, you know, thinking about these things. You've
got to keep your family alive and procreate and do
all of those things. But agriculture allowed us to move on.
You're absolutely right and start using our brains now. I
wanted to ask you, God, I'm sorry I was so
long winded with that. But I think about these things

(01:20:59):
a lot. The code itself, where does it originate, what's
its progenitor, where does it come from?

Speaker 1 (01:21:10):
I don't know if the the so maybe just surely
get into like what my strongest impression of what's going
on so far, since I started doing the whole like
you know, talking about the laser and all that stuff,
a few things happen. One of them is that I
started having this very direct communication with them before I

(01:21:34):
also had like a whole year years before I discovered
the laser, in which they basically would come to my
room every night and would like have a conversation that
would basically be on DMT pretty much the whole day.
I would do everything on it, go to the store,
go to the gym, like I lived on it, because
it just I wanted to explore out the domains of
the world while I'm on the in the state. And

(01:21:54):
but then after I started doing the laser conversation, the
communication stabilized in a very coherent manner, like it became
like a phone call, and they changed something about my brain.
I know because I literally sat there one time and
I felt like something was like on the side of

(01:22:15):
my head and just going. I could feel it. And
then my experience of the molecule changed entirely, so like
I can still have what you would call the psychedelic explosion,
but I kind of get the I get to see
what allows this to happen, Like I see the machinery
behind it. I see the whole kind of like behind
the scenes. And in addition to that, I was also

(01:22:39):
given this thing that is kind of like a I
call it the console. I don't know what else to
call it. It's literally a computer console. It looks like
a Tony Stark augmented reality menu set. And it has
a body also, so just like a laptop, you have
the body of the laptop and then you have menus inside, right,
you have whatever the content is, So it has the

(01:23:01):
body part too. In the video that I made of
my channel on Dengo Thoughts, there's a video called the Well.
The thumbnail says the console. Just look for that thumbnail
I think a new visual something. You'll find it easily,
just scroll through it. And I work with the three
D artists to kind of reconstruct some of this so
people can actually see what it kind of looks like.

(01:23:23):
And every time I smoke the MT and or ingested
in any form, the console appears, it opens up, it
boots up. There's this flower looking thing that opens up.
It's as opaque as this mic, like that's how opeak
it is. And then it opens up and the menus
come up and they kind of look just like this,
something like a supercomputer from the future. I will disappoint you.

(01:23:45):
I don't quite know what it's for yet, even though
I've had it for years. It's very exhausting to interact
with it. My intuition is that it's there to train
facets of my attention that I did not know I have,
because there are certain things I can do with the
menus only when I focus on it in a very
particular way, like I have to focus on it and
not blink, not with my eyes, not with my attention,

(01:24:05):
and kind of focus on what you would call the
crown chuckra but just this area of the head, and
then I literally one of the menu would dislodge and
become available. It's come to me, and it's as real
to me as like what you described to me, So
like you know, just like super real. It's there, it's
just I'm looking at it. In fact, when we did
the extended stage just now, I did an intravenous five
hour DMT experience in Colorado, and the guy who was

(01:24:28):
doing my brain scans, he said, I do see a
difference when you're looking at that thing, whatever that is,
Like I see a difference in the brain scan. So now,
why am I telling you all this? Because all intensive purposes,
a lot of it. I'm not guessing there's certain things
that were conveyed to me directly. However, the reason that

(01:24:50):
I bring it up only once in a while is
because I don't know how much I would listen to
me if I wouldn't be me, you know what I mean, Like,
oh I do not because of who I am. Well,
if somebody tells me something, even if I love them
person who's really close to me and I trust them
and everything, there's so much room for confabulation, for them

(01:25:11):
being confused. But there's just too much room for.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
Error here and imagination and imagination.

Speaker 1 (01:25:18):
And imagination exactly. So I don't know how truthful a
reporter someone is, right And because of that, I'm in
full awareness of this, and I do not expect anyone
to take what I'm saying right now as gospel or
something that just like you should believe.

Speaker 2 (01:25:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
But if you ask me, Danny, how do you know
and what do you know? Here's what I so far
know this way because it was shown to me directly.
First of all, they're not gonna tell us what the
code is. That's for us to figure out. It's a breadcrumb.
It's there to it's designed to for us to understand something.

(01:25:53):
The second would crack something. With that we'll be able
to make some real headway. It's not clear to me
that whomever simulates, oh, and that this is a simulated
just no questions. This is a simulated environment. Now what
is simulated is the environment, not your agency. You're not

(01:26:14):
a puppet, and not outcomes. So for all intents and purposes,
just look what you would think would be the case
in a physical universe.

Speaker 2 (01:26:21):
Or free will is still in play, and your and
your consciousness, your soul is all in play.

Speaker 1 (01:26:28):
Your perception of it, right, no actual free will, but
like your perception of it? Sure, so then no actual
free will.

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
Okay, that's another show. Well we'll circle back to that show.

Speaker 1 (01:26:37):
Yeah yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:26:39):
Let me let me ask you this really quick. You
just by saying that, right, the no free will thing
and and this entire conversation. Do you have a degree
in physics? Do you have families uh members with a
degree in physics? Where where does this knowledge base come from?

Speaker 1 (01:26:59):
My grandfather was a physicist. I started studying to become
a physicist, and then I just made other choices in life.
But I always kept on teaching myself. So I do
understand some of the mathematics. I do not understand mathematics
on a PhD level, but I can read a paper,
I can understand what's going on. I can have a
conversation with a physicist, like like, there's a lot of

(01:27:21):
intuitions that I do carry in that field, and I
like to read. I read a lot. So there's all
this philosophy stuff, and you know, it's like it's something
that was always very natural to me to consume. So
I've built a pretty robust world view.

Speaker 2 (01:27:34):
I can see that I just wanted to make that point.
I do the same thing. All I do is read science.
When it comes to this, I absorb everything that I'm
in the middle of a quantum course right now, right
and although the math is beyond me as long as

(01:27:55):
long as well, you know, when I when I took
physics the first time, I swear and you're gonna laugh.
One weekend, I was like, I got this velocity mass. Okay,
all right, okay, yes, this is easy. Anybody can do this.
I got to week two, I was like, I'm out.

(01:28:18):
I can't do this, can't I can't. It seems so
simple in the beginning. I was like, oh, I got it.
No I didn't. No, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
It's really funny. It is really funny how confident people
sometimes are just because they repeated something they heard in
a you know, in some pop pop science show, and
they think that's what's a physicists.

Speaker 2 (01:28:41):
Just as the physicist is translating and interpolating the numbers
and the equations correctly because that's what we depend on,
they they are putting it into our two D reality. Right,
it's just numbers, but they you know's a language. You

(01:29:01):
need a really good translator. And as long as I
have that, I'm pretty comfortable. I can absorb it. I
certainly love it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:10):
And one thing I do want to say, because I
there's I think there's a level of respect that is
missing from people. Sometimes it is fair to say that
theoretical physicists are probably the smartest people that ever ever
lived that walk the face of the earth like they're
just their ability to cognize is on a level that

(01:29:35):
it would be very hard to comprehend for people that
it's even possible. Is it's not an exaggeration to say that, No.

Speaker 2 (01:29:41):
It's not an exaggeration, but they're missing one component spirituality
and some of it.

Speaker 1 (01:29:48):
And by the way, it's just say I'm interrupting you.
Today on Third Eye Drops, there was a conversation with
Alex Gomez, who's a physicist who had this awakening moment
because he experienced it directly, and he says in history,
I highly recommit everybody. Watch this conversation. He's great, by
the way, and even in the trailer I saw that
Michael posted basically he's saying, this is saying, you know,

(01:30:10):
I had this experience.

Speaker 2 (01:30:11):
Full like.

Speaker 1 (01:30:14):
Right right right, And then he came back and he
said and I asked mama and Papa or however whatever
words he used, but he said, I asked physics and neuroscience.
What do you have to say about this? And he said,
I realized not much, but I know it's real, So
you're not wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:30:32):
Now, No, Sean Carroll said, I want to move on
from this because physicists with the agnostic, you know, nonspiritual,
non consciousness world that they live in, they kind of
need to be there for the work that they do.
And I you know, as you get older as a physicist,
where you have more freedom, they start to talk about

(01:30:52):
these things a bit more open. But but here's the deal.
Sean Carroll last year, and it really me off, Danny.
I'm telling you, I was sorry because Sean Carroll's really good.
He's really good, you know, and he's he's a good communicator.
But he's doing an ama. He does it once a
month on his uh whatever that his podcast is called.

(01:31:17):
And one of the questions comes up, and it always does, so, man,
what is consciousness right? And this is Sean Carroll's answer.
I don't even need to paraphrase, that's what he says.
He goes, I'm gonna imitate Sean Carroll, you can lie.
I don't have time to think about something that doesn't exist.

(01:31:42):
I don't have the time to think about those things.
I'm like, dude, what a cop out.

Speaker 1 (01:31:51):
Just let me tell you that's a really good Sean
Carroll impression.

Speaker 2 (01:31:55):
I love that guy. I love that guy, and I
didn't want that to turn me off. What I have
to do is resolve in my own mind that is
just where he is at. Because in a weird way,
he's not wrong. He can't measure it, he can't throw
it in a lab in the in the traditional sense,
you know, for him, for him, Yeah, and you know,

(01:32:17):
but yet he can talk about how much he likes pizza,
but he doesn't want to talk about consciousness and the ability.

Speaker 1 (01:32:24):
He actually doesn't think it's real. Yeah, yeah, sure, and
and and but this is the thing. The first thing
to say is, look, we all have our moments. I
do a daily live and if I'm too tired and
somebody comes to me with something that I just find
just like beyond stupid. I mean, even if I could
have extended the you know, the olive brench and just

(01:32:46):
like kind of bring him into a more welcoming conversation
I'm just I'm out of gas. I'm just gonna call
it stupid and move on, you know, I mean, if
that's my conviction, So I get it. We all have
these moments. But yeah, you're not wrong that there's there's physics.
What they don't understand is that they would actually benefit
tremendously from not marrying themselves to such a strong position

(01:33:09):
about something they know nothing about. You know, take one time.

Speaker 2 (01:33:13):
Only only one two hits off off off the vape right,
two hits off everything. It's a brand new day for them,
that's all. And what they don't understand. And somebody popped
us up in uh, I don't want this to be
a big, long how to do d MT thing. That's
not what we're talking about here. But somebody popped up

(01:33:37):
in in the chat about a half hour ago, an
honest question that everybody has. Okay, but what about the
after effects? How long does it last? And if a
physicist really understood that it's that fast on, that fast off,

(01:33:59):
and you are as clear as you ever were in
any day of your life, there is not there is
no you know what I mean, there's no hangover, there's nothing.
It's just if they understood that. I think that they
would absolutely be more open to it. Just just five
minutes in and out, five minutes, Just give me five

(01:34:20):
minutes of your time.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
It's a famous Tennis McKenna riff where it goes like
to all the people that always say, oh you and
you drug people while they're sipping on their whiskeys, and
goes like, oh you think it's all nonsense, my cheerful friend,
would you care to spare five minutes of.

Speaker 2 (01:34:38):
Your five five minutes? Five minutes? I mean crazy. I
I've done it twice, only twice. Once was nine minutes, okay.
Second time was thirty minutes okay. And the second time

(01:34:58):
that I did it, I was like, okay, this time,
I'm not playing around. I wasn't playing around the first time,
but I just wanted to, you know, and I did.
It was thirty minutes and I did six hits. Six.
I don't even know how I got that thing up to,
you know, I don't even know. I don't know. No, no, no, no.

(01:35:19):
I will say this if there's something fun to say
on hit number six. Right, I'm holding it out. Let
me change cameras here, Okay, I'm holding it out. I'm
looking at my arm and it goes just like this.
And my intention was just show me what I need

(01:35:41):
to you know, same intention. And then my arm turns
to diamonds all the way up to my fingertips and
I'm looking at it. Why that's that's amazing, you know,
And it wasn't. I didn't giggle like no, I was like, wow, okay,

(01:36:02):
it's interesting, all right, Wow, okay, it was fantastical. The second.
The second again that my intention and this is what
was interesting. Let me ask you about this. Intention was
the same, show me what show me what you want
to see. And I asked my guide. I don't know

(01:36:23):
how many minutes into this, maybe ten to fifteen minutes,
but I asked my guy. I said, okay, can I
meet somebody else? And she said she's walking on and
she goes, not yet. And I was a little disappointed,
you know, I was, you know, but we were. She
took me on a boat on a river tour, going

(01:36:47):
down this river and we're looking at the cities off
in the distance and we're having a conversation. I'm holding
onto the railing and I'm just looking both ways as
we're cruising down this river. For like twenty minutes just
observing everything. Now, what's important? And this is what I
want to ask you, what's important to me? In all

(01:37:08):
of this? There was nothing sensational. There wasn't any mechanical
UFO elves right or whatever, you know, No dynamic jag
war you know, god like, none of that. No, No,
it was another world and observing it and watching it

(01:37:32):
roll by. I was absolutely as a tourist, because that's
what you are, right, I'm a tourist impressed with this
other world and how it's put together and how it
is and how it looked. And that's how I came
out like a tourist, Like I got my passport stamped right,

(01:37:55):
and I came off of that going why that was beautiful?
That was amazing. Nothing sensational, nothing crazy, no lightning out
of this, none of that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:06):
You have very stabilized experiences. It's not always like this.

Speaker 2 (01:38:10):
And do you think that's because of the intention and expectations.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:38:16):
I don't know. I can tell you something very interesting though,
the diamond thing. After we're done, I'll try and find
it tonight. If I can, i'll find it tomorrow. I'll
send it to you, Okay, the only other instance of
a person who I know for a fact that has
seen the console. And I only know this because he

(01:38:37):
emailed me the day before I released the video by
the console. If he would email me after I could have,
I could not know because I already spoke about it.
But he had no way of knowing any of this,
and he sent me, and I have a timestamp on
the email.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
Thing.

Speaker 1 (01:38:52):
God right, They gave me all this information about what
he's seeing, and he described exactly what I'm saying with
the console, so I know at this there's one more
person was seeing it. I had other people tell me,
but I don't have a way to know if they
but he described it to me. And when one of
the things that appears in the console is this suit
that kind of looks like an Iron Man suit, like
it just hovers there and I could never make it work.

(01:39:13):
I don't know what to do with it. It's just
always there, and every time I try to approach it,
it just kind of recedes from me in the same distance.
And I was like, hmm, And I tried everything. I
tried to like focus and do all kinds of things
and like with my mind, and nothing, he said, he
managed to make the suit do something. One time. I said, really,
what do you do? He said, I was in front

(01:39:34):
of the mirror and the suit engulfed me and I
became fully made out of diamond.

Speaker 2 (01:39:39):
Oh did bullshit?

Speaker 1 (01:39:41):
I'll I'll send you an email. Wow.

Speaker 2 (01:39:44):
Wow, you know that. Okay, let's have another wow moment.
There was another thing that happened to me, very similar
to what you're saying, which is in front of me,
and it rose out of the sidewalk that I was
walking on on this doorway and it comes out of
the ground and it's like stone with a stone lentil

(01:40:08):
across the top, right, kind of looked like the pie
pie right, and it looked like pie. But it rises
out of the ground and there's a dark doorway in
the middle of it. My guide goes, Okay, I'm telling
them things that I've never said before, right, so this
is all first time stuff for everybody. I've never I
keep this stuff private. But I'm out of the closet now, right. Anyway,

(01:40:32):
my guide says, go through the door. I said, okay,
And I'm walking and the door comes up and then
stops and then recedes as I'm walking towards it. And
I couldn't. I couldn't get to it, and I was dude,
I was almost running, and it was just just staying

(01:40:54):
in front of me, staying in front of me, staying
in front of me. And then it went into the
ground and was gone.

Speaker 1 (01:41:00):
Yeah, they want us to do something else, and I
don't know what that is yet. There's something else with
our attention. That's what I think the code is part
of there to do, which is to train us to
do this, to look at information differently. It's there, I think,
to train us to look differently so we can see

(01:41:20):
something and interact with these objects that are more more
than three dimensional. Oh and that actually brings me back
to the to the point of what I was trying
to say, is that about the code. So under the
banner of everything they showed me, it's not clear to
me yet whether they wrote the code or are they
Are they just the management company, right? And yeah, and

(01:41:43):
they're basically catering to the error correction of the thing.
But that there's an architect like there's a there's a hire.
That's not clear to me yet.

Speaker 2 (01:41:51):
It could it be. I was gonna say, use your imagination,
but you don't have any problem with that?

Speaker 1 (01:41:58):
Could it be actually do I have?

Speaker 2 (01:42:01):
I have?

Speaker 1 (01:42:02):
I am I'm somewhere on the what is it called
the the thing that you can't imagine objects thing, So like, uh,
I forget what it's called, right, So I have I
have a form of this. There's there's gradation, so it's
not it's not all or nothing. I'm somewhere. There's actually
I do it problem. But I mean, could it be

(01:42:24):
something as crazy as you know? Because I love video games,
well specifically, I used to play a lot of video games.
Now I'm just into racing simulators and I have the
whole cockpit set up in motion simulation and all of that.

Speaker 2 (01:42:40):
I love that. But it's so immersive, you know you
brought up the oculus or whatever earlier. It's so immersive,
and I love that and being able to connect to
everybody on this planet and and and and and it's
crazy how fun it is, but how realistic it's it's
starting to become, but another civilization off this planet. I

(01:43:06):
often think, is there some twelve year old alien kid
in his bedroom right with his mom pounding on the
front door, you know, come down and eat dinner. Hold on, mom,
I've got Danny Gohlder talking to Jimmy Church right now,
you know what I mean. And that's the they they're
playing a friggin video game, you know, of the universe,

(01:43:29):
and that's where we are. And you mentioned simulation earlier,
and I just I just wonder, yeah, ah, could it
be something like that? No, you don't think so. No, See,

(01:43:49):
you do have an imagination problem. You do have an
imagination problem.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
I do.

Speaker 2 (01:43:53):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:55):
The problem with my imagination is that they overrode it
by telling me what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:44:01):
Well, so the back to the code. Back to the code.
The source of the code originates somewhere. Here's my question.
Is it as old as the universe? Is the code?

Speaker 1 (01:44:18):
It's older?

Speaker 4 (01:44:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:44:19):
I think it permeates all of the simulations, so not
just our universe, but all of them. Yeah, and and
and there's like systems upon systems, as you can imagine,
it's like simulations all the way up. And then there
is this unifying thing. But from my observation, it is
not the thing we call God higher self for God,

(01:44:43):
or our unified field like no, no, no, no, it's way
way beyond that. It's like what we like, what we
would call our unified self. The the you know, the
higher self and all that stuff. That's our local group.
There are others, So ironically, even though we're all one,
there are other ones. So actually still the cases that

(01:45:06):
there is still plural and it's only from that interaction
is that we can actually meet the other ones. Is
when we fully unify, at least in its potential to
execute for a certain period of time, then we can
actually our collective face so to speak, can face the
other personally. We can't, we will not comprehend. So when

(01:45:30):
we will unify, and this is where it's all building to,
we will be able to interact with the others if
you want to talk about the disclosure. So beyond that point,
it's all kind of like a preparation for this like
revelation that we're not alone. But it will be happening
when we're already fully unified into this unified conscious and
whatever we are and the inner will the outer will

(01:45:53):
mimic the inner. So like as opposed to what a
lot of people believe, which is like you know, technology
is like here to end us. No, no, no, This is
the expression of the divine, like the Internet is the
expression of the unification made flesh. Like made real right,
and then it's so it goes and it's just now
it's a matter of integration. How do we integrate into

(01:46:13):
the system. And there's always this fear, like, wait, but
what if I go and it's a trap. Well, that's
what faith is like. You either enter with a full
heart or you don't enter. It's just how it goes.
And there's all these like what you would think are
outdated religious motifs that all of a sudden spring back

(01:46:33):
into action and you go, oh, oh, that's what it
was about particular software, so you can face what the
real thing is, the way will execute right. And ultimately
what I saw is that well, depending how you want
to go, so like the full function from what the

(01:46:54):
biggest picture I've ever seen me personally. It doesn't mean
that it's necessarily I think that that's what how things are,
but that's what was shown to me, that the unified
all there. You go, well, you have to cut that one.

Speaker 2 (01:47:12):
I guess, well, played, where did that come from? Was that? You?

Speaker 1 (01:47:17):
I think it's the OS, but there's no coincidence.

Speaker 2 (01:47:19):
It's not. It didn't come from me.

Speaker 1 (01:47:25):
No, No, it's the OS of the system. But it's
usually I've never seen the down finger, so yeah, I guess,
well we'll live it at that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:37):
Okay. So if that's the case, then and I don't
want to sound cavalier like I'm cracking jokes. Sure Big
Bang didn't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:47:51):
No, it didn't happen. Yeah. No, everything that the science
knows is not wrong. It's just that it's incomplete. There's
when we're saying the simulation. It's not of Earth, it's
behind the laws of physicals.

Speaker 2 (01:48:01):
It's okay, so stay with me, put your imagination hat
back on. Okay, Yeah, there you go. What I'm suggesting
here is that the creator who wrote the code whenever
that was, but it was obviously before the Big Bang.

(01:48:25):
It's infinitely old.

Speaker 1 (01:48:27):
Wait, the Big Bang was not the beginning of everything.

Speaker 2 (01:48:29):
I'm not talking about. I'm talking about way before you know,
the origins of this and the creation of all that
there is in Whether it's a simulation or real that point,
that part doesn't matter, by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:48:44):
Just joy, Just to cut you off a little bit there.
The simulation does not mean fake. The environment is simulating something,
but it's not mimicking anything. It's not like it's simulating
a function. Thereafter, but not. It's not like Europe fake.

(01:49:05):
As long as there are conscious awareness of any kind,
that's real, that's right, Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:49:09):
Yeah, yeah yeah. So this has to have existed forever.
What I am saying, what I'm suggesting here is the
origins at thirteen point eight billion years ago was not
the origins of everything, And that wasn't the beginning of time.

Speaker 1 (01:49:28):
That's what I'm saying, maybe of our time, but not
of the the existential you know, unified whatever. Yeah, No,
that's definitely not the beginning of that. In fact, that
is the question, it seems.

Speaker 2 (01:49:42):
Yeah, that is the question. That's the one. I mean
to go it whatever that is, and I don't even
have a word for it. But we all learn, we
go to school. We wait, you know, we're born, we learned,
we you know, we we well, what what ever this
is has been learning for a long time, right, I

(01:50:05):
mean you know what I mean, really smart, right, And
so to question or think about what this could possibly be,
it's from an intelligence that we have a long ways
to go to catch up to that.

Speaker 1 (01:50:22):
Yeah, we will never catch up to it. But there's
hints of the relevant truths that are uniformly true for
everything forever.

Speaker 2 (01:50:31):
Such as.

Speaker 1 (01:50:34):
The universal law that the Buddha talked about, like the
karmik the karmic cycle. Right, that's just true no matter what,
because that's the structure of existence. So like when you
behave a certain way, it has certain it's not even implications,
it's now you are that you did that, so now
you are that. Therefore you now proceed to that because

(01:50:58):
that's what you are, and because you showed that by
doing that, And that is an unmovable, unshakable it's just
how it is. And that would be one example of
things just how the way they are.

Speaker 2 (01:51:11):
What's more important that law or math?

Speaker 1 (01:51:16):
Oh, definitely that law, Yeah, because that that law implies
no math or no math? You do you want to
occupy most of your existence in infinite suffering or in
infinite bliss. It's you know, it's that simple.

Speaker 2 (01:51:32):
What is that is that? I want to use the
word paradox? Is that a conundrum that science does have
that maybe too much is put into math and and
the other side of it isn't considered.

Speaker 1 (01:51:47):
Math is a language to to the best of our knowledge,
the best language to describe our the relationships of our
physical world. And also some pretty wild logic cold truths
which eventually will have to be able to execute somewhere.
So yeah, it's the best language to describe that they're not.

(01:52:07):
There's two different domains, so like the truths about your
experience there are different they would require different kind of
tools to encapsulate them. In fact, have you ever and
this is to be super clear, this is not to
put you on the spot. I'm just asking to have
a reference. Have you ever meditated proper like any like?

(01:52:29):
Have you ever done a retreat or anything like this?

Speaker 2 (01:52:31):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:52:32):
Okay, So when you do more than just like sitting,
you know, with an app at home, and you actually
go to like either of a postmay retreat, that chen.

Speaker 2 (01:52:40):
Whatever breathing exercises, yes, there you go. Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:52:44):
So when you start getting into these like higher meditative states,
it becomes clear to you that it's actually not hyperbole
to say that certain truths cannot be encapsulated with linguistically
or with words. It's almost like, whatever is true of
this understanding you just had, the second you try and

(01:53:05):
chip at it with words, by definition remove it from
what it is. So then the second you start saying
something about it, it just dissipates like you can't say it,
so that's true. So my intuition is that there are
levels of truths, and there's modalities to interact with these truths,

(01:53:26):
and mathematics is just one modality of describing something that
is true about a particular environment we happen to find
ourselves in. But there are other environments that do not
succumb to this kind of linguistic representation. They just what
they are, and the only way to interact with them
is by direct expression with them, so like they would

(01:53:48):
have a relationship with you, which is what a lot
of people are experiencing when they go into these higher spaces,
these kind of truths. They just are what they are directly, which,
by the way, this is one of the confuss that
I would fully agree with you on the scientific from
the scientific perspective, when scientists becoming convinced that the only
thing that is worth considering as real are the things

(01:54:12):
that we can say something about in a round, like
say something about so from the side from a third
person versus actually just have a direct experience of them.
That kind of stuff. This is what the sentiment of
Chun Carol was expressing. But that's actually completely backwards. Like
most things in existence do not care if you can

(01:54:34):
describe them. They just are what they are, and the
only way to know what they are is to directly
face them and fully absorb them, enter the now together
where you kind of truly immersed in the truth of
what that is or who that is. And you know,
we do this on small scales here. This is why
when you do mushrooms of something, you go outside and

(01:54:56):
you look at the tree, you're so mansimamized by the
tree because you see it actually for the first time.
You go, oh, oh, oh, it's not it's not descriptive.
You're not saying tree. You fully absorb what it is.
Most things in existence. I like that, so I would
say that it's not competition between mathematics and this other law.

(01:55:17):
You definitely want to align yourself with some form of
an ethical framework in such a way that you don't
have to check yourself so like you actually it emanates
from your somatic understanding versus just your logical understanding.

Speaker 2 (01:55:31):
It's the only way, it's the only way you can grow,
not only as a species but as an individual. When
when you look at each example where things took radical
turns in civilization, always involved like three things maybe four

(01:55:53):
at the same time working together. You had religion, math, engineering,
you know what I mean, all working together at the
same time, not in competition. You look look at ancient Egypt, right,
look at ancient sumer Look at Central and South America,

(01:56:14):
or the indigenous cultures in North America where they were
all and you take that all the way up to
freaking Newton, you know, who had a firm grasp on religion, hermeticism, right, physics, math,
and to say today, well, there's still parts of Newtonian

(01:56:35):
physics that you know we base everything on today. Well,
of course, but how did he get to that point?
He had freedom of thought in all areas without any
any barrier, you know what I mean, no roadblocks, you know,
no bumpers to keep you you know what he didn't

(01:56:56):
have when we're going there are no roads and and
and today that's exactly what we lack. If you go
to the spiritual side, you're lacking the other side. They
nobody wants to blend, nobody wants to work together.

Speaker 1 (01:57:10):
Yeah, it's competition still because it's like, right, come on, man, like,
haven't we learned.

Speaker 2 (01:57:19):
One last question before? Uh uh? And I like to
ask this of most of my guests. Et shows up
and Danny Gohler's got one question? What is it? Oh man,
you only get one man, only one? I know.

Speaker 1 (01:57:41):
I think I think I would like to know the
extent to which they know the why?

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
You know what mine is? Give me something to think about.
Mine is. This audience has heard this a thousand times,
but they're going to hear it again. My question to
Et is, how did you survive? How did you survive?
How did you get past it? You know, how did
you get past it to where you actually survived yourselves?

(01:58:13):
How did you do it? I think that's the advice
that we really need. But that's what I would ask,
not propulsion systems or you know, what's the secret of
the universe? What's the key? What does forty two mean?
You know, I'm not going to do that. No, how
did you guys survive? That would be my question.

Speaker 1 (01:58:33):
Yeah, well, that's you know, my question is always like,
that's my question. But I actually think that I do
see a glimmer of an answer to the question you have,
and it is just that unification. It's the unification of
the understanding that you truly are not separate from everything

(01:58:53):
that's going on. But how do you embody that? That's
really the and the reason that I said that a
little more before we jump off, maybe just leave on
this positive note. The reason that I said I'm more
optimistic is not necessarily because of psychedelics. I'm just seeing
hints of this in the world now. I'm seeing both,

(01:59:13):
even in the place where it's the most pronounced, this
battling right between the political left and right. Even there,
I'm already seeing some voices that are a lot more mature,
and they truly are representing a different flavor of a
conversation that includes the perspective of the other. And that's

(01:59:34):
the thing that actually gives me hope.

Speaker 2 (01:59:35):
Yeah, the beautiful thing about being us is that we're
all different. That's it. That's it. That's the best part
of it. You know, I say this all the time,
and I want to thank you. Great And we're going
to be hanging out everybody, Conscious Life expat coming up
this February. Danny's not only going to be there, but
if you want to meet him, come and hang out,

(01:59:57):
and I'm going to be there and I might even
introduce Danny. Okay, so we'll yeah, we'll see if we
can get that into the schedule. But the uh, I'm joking,
that was a bad joke. Let me see, let me,
let me see if I can squeeze that in. I
can't wait. It's gonna be amazing. Is that the the

(02:00:17):
thing that makes me most happy? And it's not pizza,
it's not my Harley, it's not these guitars. You know
what makes me most happy hanging out with somebody that
I can have a conversation with that I've never had before.
And you only get that from somebody that's different. That's it,

(02:00:38):
you know. If you want to hang out with people
that are just like you, you don't grow, you don't learn.
I want to be around somebody that, you know what,
we can push back. I love it tonight when you
said no, Jimmy, no, no, not exactly. Well okay, so
tell me you know, And that's that's what I enjoyed. Danny,
Thank you so much, great conversation. We've got your links below.

(02:01:01):
Where's the best way to reach out to you and
check out what you're doing.

Speaker 1 (02:01:06):
My YouTube channel Dango Thoughts, d A n g O
Thoughts and my instagram Danny Gohler and the rest. You'll
find there.

Speaker 2 (02:01:15):
Okay, very good. Thank you so much, sir. Enjoy the
rest of your night. I'll see you in a couple
of months and I'll look forward to our next conversation.
Thank you so much, Danny.

Speaker 1 (02:01:23):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (02:01:24):
Great work, the absolute best. We do have Danny's links below.
Thank you so much, Danny, and again on our website
and throughout social media. Great conversation. Perfect night for me
on the show. They're all pretty perfect, aren't they? And
thank you so much, Danny. And with that, what was
I going to say? Oh, tomorrow night on the show,

(02:01:45):
ama Aja, where you get to come in here and
ask me anything. It's always a fun night. We do
that once a month. We're doing that tomorrow night. So
I'll see everybody tomorrow. But until then, all I've got
is go backlea tappy. Fade to Black is produced by
Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman, and Michelle Free. Special thanks

(02:02:09):
to Bill John Dex, Jessica Dennis, and Kevin Webmaster is
Drew the Geek. Music by Doug Albridge. Intro Spaceboy Ada
Black is produced by kJ c R for the Game
Changer Network. This broadcast is owned and copyrighted twenty twenty

(02:02:31):
four by Fade to Black and the Game Changer Network, Inc.
It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied, or used anywhere in
the known universe without written permission from Fade to Black
or the Game Changer Network. I'm your host, Jimmy Church
Go Beckley, Teppy