FADE to BLACK host: Jimmy Church guest: Julia Mossbridge

Tonight, neuroscientist Julia Mossbridge joins us to discuss us, our brain, consciousness, and what it means to be human... with a full dose of Woo and Disclosure thrown in for good measure... an amazing conversation with one of the great minds of our generation!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:27):
This Hope Radio for the Masses. Headline of this July eighth,
nineteen forty seven, the Yaudi Air Force has an outstart.

Speaker 2 (00:34):
Applying the hearty found and there's now in the possession
of the adair.

Speaker 1 (00:39):
With the game and really changed the game Game Changer.

Speaker 3 (00:43):
I occasionally think how quickly our difference is worldwide would
vanish if we were facing an alien threat from outside
this work.

Speaker 2 (00:59):
This is to Black. It's your host, Jimmy Church on
the Game Changer Radio Network. All right, good evening, how
you doing? How you doing Fade to Black? You knew that,
that's why you are here? Kidding my mic citiated? Yeah,
I mean Jimmy Church. Today is November nineteenth, two November twentieth,

(01:25):
twenty twenty five. I have Julia Mosbridge on the show tonight.
I have a very smart person that I hold dearly.
But I just messed up today's date. That's setting the
tone for the show. Oh my goodness, here we go.
All right, all right, all right, let's move on. I'll
blame it on the rain. I'll blame it on the rain.

(01:45):
It's still raining here this week on Fade to Black
Monday Night, Professor Callum Cooper was here an amazing show
about his research into ghosts and hauntings and survival. Tuesday night,
Nicola Farmer was here. We talked about her work with
the Icy Academy. Last night Massadi was here. Man it's
Big Brain Week the nd revealed last night, and tonight

(02:07):
it's Julia Mossbridge and she's got a new book out,
The Disclosure Process. I find this extremely compelling. It's going
to be a lot of fun. My next event coming
up is the Conscious Life Expo. It is this February
twentieth through the twenty third, twenty twenty six. I have
been hosting this event at the lax Hilton for the

(02:27):
past twelve years. I think this is year number thirteen
if my math is correct, and the links for that
are below. Come and hang out with us at the
lax Hilton and have some fun, meet some people. Yeah,
twenty five thousand friends. Yeah, all right, all right. So
Julia Mossbridge is here with us tonight, and I am

(02:51):
going to cut the intro short. And there's a reason
for that, because I could sit and read her CV
and her accomplishments and everything else and take up ten
minutes on the show. I'm not going to do that tonight.
But she's amongst other things, Okay, all right. She's a
cognitive neuroscientist and she is the Human Potential Research lead

(03:18):
for the Telepathy tapes. A Senior Distinguished Fellow in Human
Potential at the Center for a Future of AI, Mind
and Society at Florida Atlantic University, member of the Loomis
Innovation Council at this Stimpson Center, Affiliate professor in the
Department of Biophysics and Physics at the University of San Diego,
founder of the Moss Bridge Institute, and co founder of

(03:39):
the five oh one CE nonprofit TILT, the Institute for
Love and Time. Her PhD in Communication Sciences and Disorders
is from Northwestern University. Her MA in neuroscience. Man, I'm
out of breath. I tried to do it in one
breath is from the UC of San Francisco and was
awarded her BA in Neuroscience with the highest honors from

(04:00):
Oberlin College. I did it. I pulled it off, and
it was just two breaths. I would like to welcome
back to Fade to Black, the one and the only
Julia mos Breth. I tried to do it in one breath.

Speaker 1 (04:10):
I ridiculous.

Speaker 2 (04:11):
I couldn't do it. I tried to do it in
one breath.

Speaker 1 (04:14):
It's too much, but thank you. And I think if
we did the same thing for you and listen to
all your accomplishments, it would look like all those guitars
in your background.

Speaker 2 (04:22):
Yeah, yeah, Do you ever do that? Do you sit
back and go wow, I did all of that.

Speaker 1 (04:32):
Every once in a while, it's usually after I like,
if after I write a book and get a published,
or get a paper published, or just make it have
some accomplishment, I'll go, oh, there's that feeling of like
I did that, and then it lasts for like twenty seconds.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
Right, and I was like, okay, next thing, right, right,
because it just it's weird. You get stuck in the moment,
you're in life's journey, you're getting stuff done, and sometimes
you don't have the pay or maybe even the concern
to look at your accomplishments. But you you go and
you're looking to co man that wow, wow, that yeah, Okay.

(05:11):
I do that all the time, and I'd rather forget
about what I've accomplished and what I've done than be
concerned about not doing enough.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
Well. It's also just much more fun. I mean, whatever
you've done is what you've already done.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
Yes, yes, yes, that's exactly. Let me ask you here's
a question, hopefully that you've never been asked before, which
is this. I've got a lot of friends that when
they do accomplish things and they've achieved the stuffing that
to to motivate them with a statement or a question

(05:54):
or something a story, it's got to be really big
because they've seen so much that they don't it doesn't
get their juices flowing. It's it's a really bizarre thing.
And I often think about that. What what does it
take for people to get motivated and excited? What do

(06:17):
you how do you move into a conversation where you
get challenged? Do you hang out with other intellectuals and
academics or you know, what do you do to stay motivated?

Speaker 1 (06:32):
Oh that's interesting and I haven't ever been asked that before.
So you win.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
But you know, I thought that question was would be
good enough to get you motivated.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
It is, but it's going to get be motivated to
think and I have to talk, so a little tricky,
but so my my experience is that I don't get uh,
I don't get motivated by This is interesting because I
like other people. I like hanging out with other people,

(07:09):
and I like hanging out with smart people. I also
like hanging out with people who are smart in other
ways than like book learning. Sure, in fact, maybe I
like that more because academics kind of drive me nuts.
So I don't think that's part of my motivation system.
I have this internal motivation that's really strong, and so
that doesn't go away. So it's like I wake up

(07:31):
in the morning and I and I will have like, oh,
now I have to do this because it comes into
my head that I'm going to have to I don't know,
make an application that helps people heal their childhood trauma
or whatever it is. Oh now I have to study photons.
And so it's almost like I have my marching orders
and those are very motivating, right, but I don't I

(07:54):
guess I don't. I don't get bored, so I don't
so I don't know how to answer the question because
I don't have a.

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Time when I get so I was successful. See that's that.
It's it's something that because I do so many interviews,
right thousands, right thousands, and if there's one thing that
I have learned over the years is that there is

(08:25):
a certain that the old, the old, you know, the
ten thousand hour rule. Right, So the way that I
am today with my interview style or my conversation compared
to where I was, say fifteen years ago, is it
can't be any more polarized or opposite. And the thing

(08:48):
that I may have sort of mastered after ten thousand
hours is understanding what motivates somebody and how to get
to a point where they are challenged with something they
haven't been asked before. You know, it used to bother me.

(09:09):
I mean, it didn't used to bother me when I
would get a list of questions for somebody and they
were prepared for that. I thought that that's what the
audience wanted.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
Was horrible, It's horrible. I hate that it's like hand
and the person's already thought of their answer, and then
what have you learned? You've learned? It doesn't even sound good.
It doesn'eel like the way people's voices sound when they're
essentially saying something.

Speaker 2 (09:33):
You can tell, you can't tell, you can tell, and
so it's almost like they're reading what and it's it's
so practiced and so rehearsed. And so expected that the
spontan eighty, the improvisation part is completely removed. I would
rather sit on the edge of my seat. That's why

(09:54):
I don't do a recorded show. Ye, Whenever, when I
record the show, Julia, it sounds like I'm an MPR host,
you know, because yeah, because my my, my adrenaline is
the opposite. It's yeah, my my, this is what I

(10:15):
sound like when I record a show. So, Julia, you
wrote a new disclosure book.

Speaker 1 (10:22):
Wait did I did I write that? Right?

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Yeah? Yeah, it's I can't. I can't go there, I can't.

Speaker 1 (10:32):
You know. One of the things I love about radio.
I've always loved about radio is it's really about the
authenticity of people. It's really about how people really are
in the moment on live radio, which is how all
radio used to be, right right right. And I used
to come home from school and listen to these two

(10:55):
guys in Chicago, Steve Doll and Gary Meyer, big Chicago DJ.
But they were talk DJs, like every once in a while,
grudgingly play a song, you know, but really they're talking.
And what they talk about whatever came out of their mouths.
They would talk about their lives or like, oh, it
bothers me, Steve when you do that, or I'm pissed
off at you, or I'm passed off at myself. Right

(11:15):
my wife is annoying, or now I'm having a great
day and I feel guilty or whatever it is that
they were experiencing, and it was just like listening to
people be people.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
That's it. That's the magic. That's what you and I
are doing right now. That's all I want now. Okay,
so let's let's talk a little neuroscience in a weird way.
This is how I'm going to how I'm going to
steer this into this right what I have done is
something that the rest of the world is reticent to do.

(11:47):
Right now, what I have done for the last twelve years,
I've done it for fifteen, but for the last twelve
is three to four hours a night. I'm not on
my cell phone, not on the internet. I'm having a
conversation with a real person, a real conversation. And I
have said, can you put your phone down for three

(12:10):
hours a day and just talk to somebody? And it's
and I'm wondering, I'm wondering if we are starting to
alter our DNA with this kind of lifestyle with our
brain development. Am I concerning myself with something that is

(12:31):
not a big deal? Or am I flying over the target?

Speaker 1 (12:37):
I think you're flying over the target. I think for
sure we're we're changing our brains, there's no doubt about that.
I mean, we know that our attention spans have really
dropped in a drastic way. We know that our capacity
to be present with other people has really changed, Like

(12:58):
people have lost the capacity you go in an elevator
and every once got their phone in front of their face.
The our capacity to sort of be awkward and not
know people and not rely on the crutch of the phone.
So all of these things are true. So that means
we're changing our brains. Are we changing our DNA as

(13:19):
a result of changing our brains, Well, potentially, you know,
there's there's reverse print script ases right that potentially could
pull something off like that epigenetically. But we might be
changing our DNA not so much by our behavior, although
that's probably happening. That could be not probably that could
be happening.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
Walk through walk through an airport. Walk through an airport,
which I do once a week, Right, I'm in an
airport every week. Walk through the airport. I've noted this before,
but now it's people have developed the ability to walk
without looking.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Yes, actually really, and I don't think it could be
like an exceptional human performance characteristic, Like like we use
our peripheral vision because our focal area is just the phone,
and so now we're really developing our peripheral vision. Maybe
that's great for situational awareness, but at the same time,
it's a change. You know, everything, Every tool we build
changes changes us, from fire to sticks, to wheels to typewriters,

(14:27):
and so this is also changing us, not a tool itself,
like besides the behavior, besides the what it does for
our brain because of our our using it as a
crutch and getting addicted to it and things like that.
This object, this phone object, is also emitting electromagnetic frequencies
and receiving them and admitting them and receiving them and

(14:49):
admitting them and receiving them. And we sort of all
say that should be fine, but we don't really know
if it's fine. And I wonder that that's changing our
DNA more than anything, just the simply if I never
look at the phone, but it's near me and it's.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
On right, right, right, right, right, you and I won't
be around. But let's say two hundred years from now,
our reincarnate itselves are observing things. But two hundred years
from now, I would if I were a betting man,
I would say that history is going to point towards

(15:33):
our period from nineteen ninety five until twenty twenty five.
And that's not very long as one of the big
turning points in history. It's so much happened in those
thirty years. So much of course it's the rise of
the Internet, but it's the rest of technology around it

(15:58):
that all happened at the same time, and these defining
moments of who we are changed to as well. And
I really feel that it's that important, and we've gotten
too far ahead of our skis. Instead of slowing down
and looking at what some of the implications are, we

(16:19):
just don't give a crap and we just we move
forward without thinking about it. And but that that's my
take again. Am I lying over the target? Am I
thinking about this?

Speaker 1 (16:30):
And yeah, you and I we have similar I think
we in certain ways we have similar minds, and so
we might agree on this. I there's like I can
think almost any way about this. I sort of feel like,
I could argue extremes of both both perspectives on this.

(16:50):
So on one perspective, I would say, look, greed has
become an addiction, and greed has has made us into
people who sort of are willing to say, we don't
care what we're doing to our kids, we don't care
what we're doing to ourselves. It's really important for the
economy to thrive, and therefore we're going to build things
that you know, people don't need to maybe actively hurt people,

(17:14):
but you know they're going to make this lots of
money and our economy is going to roar on and
that and we don't know how to do anything other
than that. We're just going to roar on and we're
not going to look at what we're doing, and that's
a real problem, and an addiction as a business model
is a real problem. So on the one hand, I
could argue that pretty easily, vehemently, And on the other hand,

(17:36):
I could argue, there's a reason why. It's sort of
like a it's a universal plan sort of thinking, there's
a reason why we had to make all this development
so fast, And yes, you know we are getting on
ahead of our skis, but you know, what's interesting is
people are talking about it. Now. People are you know,
just like when we were growing up, we're like Generation X,

(17:58):
right when we were growing up in schools, you would
always be told, you know, oh, smoking's bad for you,
Like that was just incredible amount of education about how
you shouldn't smoke. Well, now kids are told in that
same way you know social media, like hey, get off
your phone, go play with your friends. There's there's awareness
that's being promulgated, and that's a good sign. There's also

(18:23):
awareness in the corporate world and in the financial world
that it's not sustainable to have a business model where
your customers end up, you know, dying or having an
AI convince them that it's a good idea to kill
themselves because then, you know, actually run out of customers
and so so things maybe have to go so fast

(18:45):
so that we can get to where we start to
be able to solve a lot of the problems that
are in the world socially or in terms of peace
and war and famine and things like this, and medical problems.
But that as we start to slow down or put
the brakes a little bit on the progress, as we're
starting to see with AI and other things. Maybe we're

(19:07):
starting to also recognize, Wow, you know, this is what
it takes to realize the value of humanity. This is
what it takes to recognize the value of a human being.
And so I could argue both sides.

Speaker 2 (19:20):
These is a materialist view, which I would say pervades
over intellectuals in those circles and the PhDs and the
physicists and everything else. So and I'm using that as
just a broad term too as well materialists. But is

(19:40):
is that okay? Or you know, fine? Or should those
materialists start to consider consciousness and human beings and have
that come into play with our evolution and have it
have the same way eat as a materialistic, deterministic worldview.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
You know?

Speaker 2 (20:09):
And I know you think about this a lot. I
know you do.

Speaker 1 (20:11):
I do. I mean I sort of feel like should
they Like your question is should they consider consciousness? Well,
I mean does that even? Does the answer to that
question even matter? Like? Should they? Sure? I mean everyone
should consider like we should all be considering the only
thing that we know, which is conscious experience, Like why
would we not consider the literal only thing that we know?

(20:34):
I mean, like it's kind of insane to sort of
think that we're going to get around that somehow when
it's all anyone has as their tool of investigation. But
will they or or or or maybe it's useful that
they don't. Maybe it's useful to point out the ridiculousness
of when you're going from when you're in a revolution,

(20:56):
and I think we are in that period that you
put it out nineteen ninety five, this is a revolution,
and we're smacking the revolution. Like when you're in a revolution,
it's really hard to have momentum to change without someone
who's like really a stick in the butt that says no, no,
this is the way it is, and this is the dog.
But there's nothing to rebellience, And so I sort of

(21:19):
think maybe they should stick to their guns so that
the rest of us can be like, oh, that doesn't
fit the data, it doesn't fit when we experience, and
it doesn't make any like actual philosophical sense. So but
I sort of think what happens next, Like I've never

(21:40):
been that interested in history. I'm always a futurist pointing person, right,
So then I'm like, well, what happens next? What happens
when when that does happen? Let's assume that they should,
and eventually they will.

Speaker 2 (21:50):
I tell you what should happen. We should all be able.
We should all be able to point and laugh. That's
what we should be able. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (21:59):
God that I get that instinct of like, oh my God,
I told you so, like how but like you know,
I've been there. When I was in college, I was
a nerds science majors, computer science minor. I didn't believe
in God. I was raised in a Unitarian universalist tradition,

(22:21):
which is basically like an intellectuals church where you go
around and talk about how God probably doesn't use this.
It's just it's very human. It's a it's a human
humanistic tradition, vaguely Christians.

Speaker 2 (22:32):
And this was in Chicago and.

Speaker 1 (22:35):
North Origanitary Church in the in the North.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
That's a pretty famous place. That's where I'm from.

Speaker 1 (22:42):
Oh wait, you're from.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
I was born in Waukegan, but I lived in Yeah,
I was born in Great Lakes Naval Station.

Speaker 1 (22:49):
But so I grew up in Libertyville.

Speaker 2 (22:53):
And how okay, now here's the thing. Here's the thing.
To everybody listening right now, nobody's ever heard of Libertyville.
Libertyville I went to Mondoline High School. Okay, now I
could hit Libertyville High School from my high school with
a corn cop. We're talking about two of the tiniest

(23:17):
towns in America. But you and I are who has
ever said Mondoline to you in a conversation? No? Literally,
But when you said that church, I was like, I
was like what, wow, Wow, that's crazy. Okay, So let's
move on from that, because we I could, I could talk.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
About We're going to get back to that though, will
about my book because I talk about this weird, weird
program that was probably government run that was in Libertyville
at my public school. So yeah, I knew it.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
I knew it. I knew it. It was the Stepford Wives,
I knew it.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
All Lakes Naval Training Base, which was like the big
you know it still is still is facility around there. Yeah, yeah,
where your parents there.

Speaker 2 (24:05):
My dad was in the army, so just south of there,
right next to it was an Army base called Fort Sheridan.
So we lived at Fort Sheridan, but we didn't have
a hospital, so Great Lakes being the big, you know,
the big facility there. So all of the Army brats
were born at Great Lakes and it was one of them.

(24:27):
Yeah yeah, yeah, crazy, h yeah. I know.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
I have a friend who lives in one of the
condos that Fort Sheridan was turned into.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
It's so it's so it's different, but the same going
through there, which I have done, and it's I just
love growing up there. I just did a cop I
don't want to get so we got to get back.
It's too easy to get sucked into the Midwest. But
I just did. You brought up Libertyville and and something

(24:55):
that may have gone on strange there. I just did
a conference in Delavan, Wisconsin, which is right, yeah, yeah,
right there, right that was.

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Like the playground of the middle class Liberty.

Speaker 2 (25:04):
It's still it's still, it's beautiful. So I was just
there a few months ago and I told everybody the
story about how I got on my path into this career,
and I said, it's because it happened in Waukegan, and
the whole place erupted. They were like, what you know,

(25:26):
I can't stress it enough. How important, Uh that area
was for me. The Libertyville, Mondoline, you know, Waukegan, Uh,
the Blue Mounds, Wisconsin, the border, Chicagoion Giant. I can't
believe it just said Zion. Of course that place right,

(25:47):
Zion was completely bizarre, remember, yeah, of course it is,
of course. So we'll we'll circle back to all of this.
This is a very important part about me growing up
and apparently you too as well. But I wanted to
ask you this. This is what I wanted to ask
you next. So when we look at the development of

(26:09):
the brain and trying to understand it, which I I
don't think we're any closer to understanding it now than
two thousand years ago. By the way, the brain is
too beautiful and too complex.

Speaker 1 (26:23):
And we have some more ideas, I mean about how
electromagnetic fields and about how the chemistry or the biochemistry
of the brain supports excuse me, supports the neural tube development,
the neural tube becomes the brain in the years, supports
the neural tube development or doesn't support it, you know.

(26:44):
So we have some more ideas. But it's really beautifully complex. Yeah.
When I was a kid, I used to read books
about neural development, and I was just in love with
it because it was this incredible mystery. And it still is.

Speaker 2 (26:57):
It still is. It's incredible, It's unbelievable and so whenever
I get to this part of the thought process, I
have to stop and go. Science cannot be right. Consciousness
can't be chemicals, it can't. It cannot develop there. It

(27:22):
can't be some physio, some biological, some process where it
ignites from particles combining. I don't I'm not comfortable with that.
I think there's something way much more that we don't understand.
So is it local for you or is it non local?

Speaker 1 (27:45):
Oh so, first of all, when you say science can't
be right, let's be clear. You can do science and
not be a materialist. Science and materialism are not the
same thing. And what you're talking about is materialism, like
the idea that a brain, the material of the brain
sort of makes consciousness. That's that's the materialist idea about
how the brain and the mind are connected.

Speaker 2 (28:07):
Correct.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
But you can do science and not being a materialist.
For instance, I'm a scientist, not a materialist. And so,
in fact, I wrote a book with the months of
every it's called Transcendent Mind, Rethinking the Science of Consciousness,
and it's from the American Psychological Association, and it's essentially,
I think one of the first textbooks for the post
materialist era that speaks to the neuroscience and the psychology,

(28:32):
but speaks to it without the assumption that the brain
is sitting around making the mind. And so I agree
completely with you that it can't be the case that
the chemistry is creating the mind, because the mind, it's
of a different class. It's a physical world follows this

(28:54):
set of rules, and it's the set of rules that
we're taught about how things work and cause out and
all these things. The mental world is the world of information,
it's the world of ideas, it's the world of experience.
None of that stuff is physical obviously. I mean, how
much does the thought think about the color pink? Now,
how much did that thought weigh? What was the spin

(29:17):
on the particles related to the thought of pink? Point
to where the thought of pink is?

Speaker 2 (29:23):
Well, that's why, that's why AI, it's got long ways
to go. That that very point that you're making right
there is something that AI will never have ever ever.

Speaker 1 (29:35):
Well do we know? Do we know that? Jimmy? I
mean I feel people say that verily, vehemently, but like
we don't know how to measure conscious experience in humans.
We don't know how to say I have a quality equality.
It is thishilosophical idea of like, it's just a fancy
name for I'm having an experience. Okay. The experience is

(29:56):
a qualitya it's like the quality of what it's like
to have that experience. Okay. So people say, oh, well,
I will never have that. So what's the hidden theory
behind conscious experience that makes you say AI.

Speaker 2 (30:09):
Will never have Let me answer that, and I'll make
a brief Okay, let me answer that. Let's go back
to Libertyville. Okay, why do I like red corvettes? Well, now, Ai, AI,
could you know, check me out and give that answer

(30:31):
from past statements or a database scrub. Okay, but the
real answer to that would AI. Why does AI like
a red Corvette? Well, it's an impossibility when you say never,
I'm saying never because I like a red Corvette because

(30:52):
while in Libertyville, my neighbor had a red Corvette when
I was five, and I would walk out on a
summer day and smell the fresh cut grass and walk
over to his car and rub my hand over it
and get a feeling inside from this this amazing machine.

(31:13):
And it was it was my environment. It was my
the tactile part of it. It was the emotional move,
the adrenaline rush, and a thousand or a million other
things that attracted me to that that influenced my life.
AI will never have that experience ever.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
We'll see, but I don't. But then you talk to
the people. So I used to be, you know, involved
in this group of people's around the people around the
world who were this is before GPT happened. They were
AI experts who were thinking about or you know, some
kind of experts whatever who were thinking about trying to
understand whether there ever be consciousness and machines. And the

(31:56):
federal government was really interested in this, and so they
sponsored a I think it was Darba who sponsored an
event at Sri I you know place, and we would
all get together for like weekends and talk about this.
And one of the things someone brought up that I
thought was really good was Okay, So maybe AI on

(32:17):
its own is never going to have this experience because
of exactly what you just said. Like, for instance, I
like Red Corvette's because of the song. But that's a
memory of an experience I have and I have, you know,
growing up in the eighties listening to this song and
making out like yeah, that's a great song. So so,
but I never made out with anybody. But if you
embody AI, you put AI in a robot that then

(32:40):
gets to grow up and have experiences and has a
reward structure like we do, and has things that they
learned to like and not like, depending on the people
that they associate with them, et cetera, and the experiences
they have. Then would you.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
Say that I'm gonna say I'm gonna stick to my guns. YEA,
early tonight you said, Jimmy, I gotta I gotta stay
up tonight. I'm eating chocolate right.

Speaker 1 (33:08):
A.

Speaker 2 (33:08):
I will never experience the joy of chocolate. Why do
you like chocolate? Man? I can't put that into words. Well,
you know what, neither will Ai. You know that's that's
my thing.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
It's the joy. So that's the thing is And you're
talking about them. Yeah, so I'm just playing Devil's advocate.

Speaker 2 (33:30):
You're doing good too, You're doing good and I'm not.
I'm not a pH D. I'm I'm easy for I'm
I'm an easy target. But that's that's why I feel
some of the fears that people have over a I
that should be there so we don't get ahead of
our skis, right. I just don't think ai is is

(33:54):
is going to ever have that, and that's our edge
as humans. See.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
But what I think you're really saying, in other words,
that I think that people, at least the way I
understand it is you're saying, I think people get confused
about this, because what really ends up happening is what
you're arguing for is the soul. You're saying that humans
have something like a soul. And even if computationally our

(34:23):
brains are working like an ai is computing and you know,
we created aim to mimic the way the human brain works, right,
We created adem mimic how the human brain processes, at
least unconsciously so, and how the human brain learns. And
so if the mimic of that is not the same

(34:44):
as that, it means that there's something missing, and there's
something missing. I think you'd call a soul, right, and
I think I would too. And I think there's a
way to think about the First of all, I think
the human soul is real. I think that there's a
way to think about it scientifically and investigate it scientifically
and understand it like what happens after people die with

(35:05):
it etc. All those things I think are approachable scientifically,
you know, in time, I think we ought to be
doing that research. I mean, I think it's extremely important
for our culture to get it that there is the
soul and that they're creusious, and that we don't get
to go and waste them. So I think that is

(35:26):
very important. We are not there yet in mainstream science. Luckily,
I don't have to hang out with mainstream scientists.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Well, okay, so let's go back to the materialist point
of view. If they're part of the argument is true,
and that is, every particle has got a little tiny
bit of consciousness already in it. We don't know how
much you throw enough of this together, boom you've got consciousness.

(35:57):
So if that's the case, well, there's a lot of
particles in a server farm. There's a lot of particles, right,
There's a lot of particles that right, right, So could
if you take the materialist view on this, could consciousness
just arise in a computer, not from programming, but from

(36:18):
the mass of particles put together to construct such a system.

Speaker 1 (36:24):
That's consciousness can come from the physical world. And so
this is the thing is if you believe the consciousness
comes from the physical world. Then you then you can
hypothesize kind of like when people said, you know, if
you have enough chemicals sitting around, eventually they're going to
twist together and make DNA, and then you're going to
start developing life. Maybe that's true. Is that life going
to have what we call a soul? We don't understand

(36:47):
the rules of souls. You know, we don't understand If
you believe in God, then we don't understand. The way
to phrase it is, we don't understand how God decidence
where the souls go, or how they operate. We don't
know those rules. If you don't believe in God. You
could just say, if there's something called a soul that's
like an information pattern that links to a human being

(37:07):
through their life and that exists after they die, which
is sort of the definition of a soul, we don't
understand the rules of that either, So like, regardless of
how you think about it, we don't know what the
rules are. So maybe it could be created from I
just would say, like there's a one percent chance that
could be created from anything material. But I just don't
think there's any good story you can write that holds

(37:29):
scientific water or philosophical water where something like this, speaking
of holding water, this glass of water, where something like this,
this glass of water could make something that is in
a completely different category, which is human experience, which is

(37:50):
a soul, which is the mind. These things are in
a different category. This is physical. They are not. So
when you ask the question about it, is the mind
local or non local? That was a long way this conversation,
for like fifteen minutes of saying it has to be
non local because there is nowhere for what the mind is.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
That's right. I couldn't agree. You must you must be
the coolest mom like ever. I can't imagine sitting around
at the breakfast table with you.

Speaker 1 (38:20):
But more maybe my son is listening.

Speaker 2 (38:24):
He's like, Nah, she's not, she's not. Wasn't that fun?
Wasn't that fun? Jimmy? But how do you how do
you reason a materialist into changing a position on consciousness?
Is it? Is it even possible?

Speaker 1 (38:44):
It's happened? And I think actually the celebrity tapes has
done a really good job of a few scientists who
I know who are who are pretty staune materialists are
sort of starting to say, no, wait a minute, I
think there's a couple of ways to do it. One
is from data, and that's the way we sort of

(39:04):
wish that scientists would operate, like they have enough data
and then they go, oh, maybe I'm wrong. That's really rare.
Usually people get entrenched in their own views just like everyone.
Scientists are the same, and they'll be like, well, I've
been stuying this for thirty years. I'm pretty sure this
is how it works. So you know, I'm not really
going to look at those data over there because they

(39:26):
tend to make me cringe because they don't agree with
my major worldview. So data is the ideal, you know,
but it doesn't always work. What usually works is a
personal experience where that scientist either personally has an experience
that they cannot explain using the materialist worldview. Example, near

(39:49):
deathics like Emman Alexander near death experience. You know, now
all of a sudden, he's like, oh, I you know,
you used to think it worked this way, but now
I had this whole other experience. You know, I myself
didn't believe in God until college when a friend of
mine just said to me, who I really respected? And

(40:09):
I think this is part of it. It's relationships with
people who think differently. A friend of mine who I
really respected was a religion major and I was walking
with her and I'm like, it's interesting. You're studying religion
and super fascinating, you know. Do you believe in God?
And she's like, yeah, of course. And I was like,
wait what, I thought you were just studying this stuff
and she said, well, don't you think it's kind of

(40:31):
arrogant not to believe in God? And it had never
occurred to me that that was arrogant. And I really
didn't like arrogance and science. I saw that it created
dogma and created this kind of resistance to seeing the
actual data. And I thought, well, maybe I'm doing that here,
Maybe I'm being arrogant. What what if I imagined what
it might be like to believe in God? Or what

(40:52):
am I trying to pray? You know? And then I did?
And then I was like, all right, well this is real.
There's something here, right. And so that was a relationship,
like it was a connected relationship with a very good friend.
I trusted her. I thought her intellect was very skilled.
I thought she was a good person, and so I

(41:14):
listened to her. And so I think that's part of it,
and then I think the other. So there's personal experience,
there's relationships, and then there's things like stories like what
I love about to luck of these tapes is what
a good storyteller. Kai Diggins is, right, And so she's
doing for the world of consciousness research for people who
are post materialists or believe that there's something something to

(41:37):
post materialism. She's done for that world what no one's
been able to do before in a matter of a year. Yeah,
I know, which is to make people go, holy crap.
There's things we don't understand for sure. There are people
who have these gifts for sure, or maybe like ninety
percent sure, right, and we gotta we gotta think again.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
And the world is interested in this subject last week,
and I think that's one of the most important points
is that we are evolving as a species to the
point where we are considering, we are pondering these possibilities
on a mass scale. Yesterday Apple released their numbers and

(42:24):
their top ten list. Right, Joe Rogan was unseated from
number one. Okay, all right, okay, that's big news. I
guess you know what The biggest news was the number
one most listened to episode of any podcast in the
world was the telepathy tapes? Holy shit? Right? I mean

(42:51):
that's like what now? That shows me, Julia that this
is well, we're now mainstream.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
Yeah, this is the revolution. This is It feels like
when you're like at the end of a revolution and
you go into the next thing.

Speaker 2 (43:07):
Was it better? Was it better when we weren't number one? Right?

Speaker 3 (43:11):
No?

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Well so. But the thing is with revolutions, you can
get attached when you're part of the leading edge of
a revolution. Right in science or anything else, you can
get attached to being in the minority and being right
and knowing that you're right and feeling like, we'll wait
to all these other people catch up and then and
then they could almost get addicted to being right, Like

(43:33):
and how awesome is it to be like the secret
people who are in the know and all this.

Speaker 2 (43:38):
To be able to point and laugh. There's a yeah,
there's a good feeling.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
There's a natural human thing, right, right, But in reality,
pointing and laughing doesn't give you a good feeling, like
if you actually do it, it's a fantasy, but if
you actually do it, it doesn't actually make you feel good.
It's not it's not gratified what's really gratifying is to say, Okay,
I get it. I was enjoying being in the now,

(44:04):
but now what am I going to do now that
people are catching on? How am I going to make
the world a better place? And that's where the revolution
opens into ooh change, actual change.

Speaker 2 (44:17):
It's it's a disclosure the same surely I'm I'm I'm
pretty confident in this position that if E T is
here and I believe that they are, but if ET
is indeed here, then that means they are at a

(44:38):
level that we don't understand yet. It's it's really that
it's not that complex, but they would surely have figured
out consciousness.

Speaker 1 (44:52):
I sort of exactly. I sort of feel like dug like,
did you see a rival that movie?

Speaker 2 (44:56):
I watched it. I watched it two days ago. I
watched at least once a month.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Okay, so I've seen it thirteen times. Also amazing, right
and so good. One of the one of the moves
in there. Yeah, one of the ideas in there is
you know, they're really not great at like subtraction and addition.
These aliens that they interact really not great at subtraction
and addition, but they can do calculus like nothing, you know,
or they can do differential equations like nothing. So that

(45:25):
reminds me of the consciousness thing, is why would we
just because we haven't figured out consciousness, which is sort
of the first thing that you would figure out if
you could figure out anything. Just because we haven't figured
out then we assume that ET is like they're also
like trying to hook together bolts and wheels and machines,

(45:46):
you know. But there's all this evidence that, of course,
I mean evidence if you take it seriously, if you
take the abduction stuff seriously and stuff. A friend of
mine who is very interested in that mentioned to me
what NGOs Swan said about that, which is, look, every
single interaction with ETS that people report, they report telepathy.

(46:06):
I mean, like that's just a fact that that's what
they report they reported when there's an interaction, when there's
some kind of contact with ETS, they come back and say, yeah,
so I just kind ofnew what they were saying, and
I was talking and they weren't talking. That's telepathy. So
that's not only suggests that we all have the capacity
for telepathy, but that they have the capacity to turn

(46:27):
then online capacity inside of us.

Speaker 2 (46:32):
That's our next stage of evolution. We talked about this, right,
cell phones, all right, Yeah, technology and that evolution of
us can only go so far. Things only go so fast.
This thing. I'm thankful for the quantum physics world so

(46:52):
I can use Google Maps, right, I'm totally totally thankful
for that. The next stage isn't going to be some
technological revolution. The next phase of our revolution has to
be consciousness. There isn't a big enough step there technology wise,
but understanding consciousness. Wait, it's your show, Julia. I'm just no,

(47:21):
it's your show.

Speaker 1 (47:22):
I just I realized that I agree with you. That
is where we're going in that like consciousness technology, the
technology that can be created from consciousness, that is made
of consciousness is going to be very different and very
based on intention and attention and awareness and all these
things that we can we have learned to destroy with
our phones, but that we can learn to hone. And

(47:43):
I wanted to go back to something you said that
people say a lot in this world of UFO ET
people who think that stuff is interesting, and I'm one
of those people who's just I think it's interesting and
I don't understand it. They say that ets are here
and We have the Age of Disclosure movie coming out tomorrow,
and the whole premise is like, you know, UFOs are real,

(48:03):
ets are here and they're among us. I don't know
if that's the whole premise, but that's a piece of it.
What would people say ET's are among us? Like, help
me understand what you mean by that, because I think
this is related to the consciousness thing.

Speaker 2 (48:19):
But do you mean that like.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
Humanoid type aliens who sort of look like us but
maybe have different colored skin or whatever, like blueskin or
I don't know, grays or whatever, that they're like hanging
out but they're sort of like hiding in closets. Or
do you mean that they're among us because they're in
a different dimensions sort of with us, but we can't
usually see them. Or do you mean they're among us

(48:43):
that they're like underwater or do you meaning among us
that they're like the.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
The body snatchers could be so like they are consciousness
and then they're taking human bed they look Yes, yes,
they look like us.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
So that's what you mean, is like like itousness is
or et entities are among us and they sort of
live in human bodies. Me.

Speaker 2 (49:05):
I didn't say that, but I would say that anything
is possible. I live in that camp. Anything is possible
and everything eventually will happen to quote to quote Leonard Suskin. Right,
it's not my original idea. But when I say et

(49:27):
is here, I've seen and had my own experiences with this,
and that's it. I'd rather depend on my own eyes
not understanding. It's not like I fully understand and can
identify the phenomenon. I can't. I just know it's not us.
But where it is beyond that, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
Are you Do you talk about this a lot? Or
are you willing to? Because I'm not familiar with your
story or your experience around this. Are you willing to
describe it or do you think describe it?

Speaker 2 (49:57):
Sure, and we can certainly do it off of the
air too as well. I'll give you one brief because
I tell the story a lot, I don't want to
bore everybody to tears, but I'll give you one of
the most amazing things that ever happened to me. And
I've probably had one hundred, if not a thousand sidings.

(50:18):
All right, all right, So I'm up in Washington State
and I'm having a fade to black Jimmy Church conference
up there, and I've got maybe two three hundred people
with me. And while the conference is going on behind me,
I'm outside taking a break with like thirty people. I'm
sitting at a picnic table, middle of the day, three o'clock,

(50:40):
cloudless sky, beautiful, beautiful day, and I'm looking at birds
through a pair of binoculars that are on a tripod.
I'm looking at birds and it's wonderful. In the background
is Mount Adams. It's fourteen miles away and it's a
dormant volcano. You know, it's there. I can see the peak,
but I'm looking at birds, and at that moment in

(51:04):
the binoculars I can see let me change the camera.
I can see the peak of the mountain like this.
At that moment, from behind the mountain. It didn't come
in and go across, but here's from behind the mountain,
pops out this ginormous four hundred foot tall, five hundred

(51:28):
foot tall beer can. And that's what it looked like.
And it was moving across the sky like this.

Speaker 1 (51:37):
It didn't actually have like a Miller light on it.

Speaker 2 (51:39):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it was black and it kind
of had a silver top and a silver bottom. But
it was like bigger than the Empire State building. It
was like insane. It was insane, and I'm looking at
it and I jump up my hair right everything. I
lose my mind. I can't. My brain is not understand.

Speaker 1 (52:00):
Are you scared or are you just like a shot?

Speaker 2 (52:02):
I jumped up. I've got a recording of it. I
got a video of It's it's pretty hilarious. I use
a lot of foul language. I sounded like a sailor
because I don't know, so I'm jumping video video. Okay,
So the point is this lasted about ten seconds and
when I came back and I'm looking at that, and
I really look at it. I look at it from

(52:24):
top to bottom. It's perfectly in focused the sun, and
it was it was insane, and it was spinning. So
I come back out. I look at it. It's a
little black dot. But in the binoculars, I can see
the whole thing. With the naked eye, you can see
it spinning because of the sun reflecting on it, and
you could see it out there, but in THEOC right, Okay,

(52:45):
So anyway, I come back to the binoculars and my
friend next to me Steve Morillo, who you know, Steve
goes it phased out?

Speaker 1 (52:55):
What?

Speaker 2 (52:55):
And I thought, Juliet, I thought we were going to
see it for a couple of hours. It was moving
so slow in the blue sky that we were just
going to, you know, have this moment. And I come
back out, it's gone.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
It just disappeared gone.

Speaker 2 (53:09):
I didn't see it disappeared. I only saw it appear, right.
I didn't see. But everybody else that was watching it said,
it just phased out.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
That was Did anyone get any video of the object?

Speaker 2 (53:23):
It only lasted ten seconds? They got video of me
saying video video video? Did anybody get that some you know,
I use a lot of foul language.

Speaker 4 (53:33):
I was.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
I lost my mind. I couldn't believe it. Now when
you have that kind of I can't. I can't say
what it was.

Speaker 1 (53:42):
What did you feel during Did it feel like it
was communicating with you in any way or did you
just did you feel like it was sentience or did
you feel like it was a container of any sort,
or a thought, or a physical object or a multi
dimensional object. I mean, I'm just sort of curious what
your intuition was about it.

Speaker 2 (54:01):
I pede on myself Okay, for really and what and
you're in that moment. You're a neuroscientist, So let me
explain something very clearly. My brain didn't know what to do,
got it. It just didn't know what it was looking at.

Speaker 1 (54:24):
It could not take this and put it on any
of its hooks of what this is.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
As a neuroscientist, you know how we build our environment,
and our brain doesn't waste power on familiar things, right,
it's already tapped in and that's it, right, Well, when
it sees when your brain for the first time as
an adult sees something that it hasn't seen before, that's it.

(54:49):
It's confusion. It's godlike, is it?

Speaker 1 (54:52):
You know? It's it's like it's like open this awe stage.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
I could not I'm telling you. For somebody that understands airplanes, rockets,
I'm a guy, right, so I'm into those things. I'm
into cars, I'm into motorcycles, I'm into gasoline, I'm into
things that these fah right, right, right. I didn't know

(55:18):
what I was looking at.

Speaker 1 (55:20):
And this thing was moving slowly, slowly.

Speaker 2 (55:23):
Slowly, Yeah, it was. It was spinning like this. It
had something on the side that was silver. I never
saw what it was. But but as it was, it
was like a Miller lite logo, I think. But anyway,
as it was spinning, you could see whatever that was
come around once and the spin was like this maybe

(55:45):
about that fast, and it was fourteen miles away, but
it's moving across not very fast. The trippy thing is
when you look at the size of this, you're looking
at Mount Adams. You know it's fourteen miles away. Mount
Adams dominates your field of view no matter where you are.

(56:06):
It's always wherever you are, there's Mount Atoms, right, because
it's so big, and this was like as big as
the mountain kind of it was like crazy. It was huge,
and it was in the sky and it was floating
and it was still so did.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
You see the base of it too? Eventually did it
come up high enough for you to see the base? Seconds?

Speaker 2 (56:31):
Ten seconds, ten seconds, ten seconds. It was extraordinary.

Speaker 1 (56:35):
So and do you have an idea that it could
be a projection? So it was okay, But do you
think it was a physical object? It was.

Speaker 2 (56:48):
Here are the non negotiable terms of the site of it.

Speaker 1 (56:53):
It was.

Speaker 2 (56:54):
It was physical, it was solid, it was crisp, it
was clear, was moving there was motion and that that
that's it there there? Could it have been okay, now
here is here is where I have evolved in my

(57:16):
thought processes with this. Yes, it was all of those things.
It was real, But could it have been an overlap
of dimensions? Could it have been something that was real
somewhere else that just for that instant where it phased

(57:38):
in and phased out here that it was in our
frequency range?

Speaker 1 (57:42):
Yeah, right there, but we couldn't see it.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Right right right, total possibility. Uh, I'm okay with that.
I think that explains ghosts and and and a lot
of things when it comes to ET and what we're
seeing in the skies, you know, going back to overlap
back in the telepathy tapes. I find it satisfying that

(58:12):
the telepathy tapes is now being researched and looked at
and things from people outside that normally wouldn't have these conversations.
And we're doing the same thing right now with ET
and disclosure on what's going on where it was always
this taboo thing that was in the closet that nobody
talked about to mainstream media, congress. The conversations that we're

(58:36):
having right now of three I Atlas where I think
the world is ready for disclosure. I don't know how
they're going to deal with it, but they're certainly not reticent.
I think that they're okay with it.

Speaker 1 (58:50):
Who's okay with that? The planet closing?

Speaker 2 (58:53):
I think the planet the eight and a half billion
people here are like, because we understand the size of
the universe now that we didn't, you know, even thirty years.

Speaker 1 (59:03):
Ago, if we can talk about I mean so, I
mean there. I do think there's been a bit of
a materialist bias in the whole ufology world and the
whole et alien world of like, what's interesting is they
make really fast race cars. You know that we don't

(59:24):
understand how they go so vess like they're amazing corvettes,
and it's just like, that's actually not if I were
if I were an alien race and I understood humans,
I'd be like, let's make really fast cars. I'm put
them in the sky and they'll take one hundred years
to try to figure that out. Because I don't think
that's what is going on. But in fact, it feels
to me like that's sort of like where the cats
with the laser pointers and what else is happening you

(59:49):
know that we're not seeing when we're being distracted by this.
I mean, not that it's not interesting. Obviously, that's real.
I'm not saying it's not real. I'm saying the more
profound thing is this consciousness piece. The more profound thing
is like I can make you have an experience if
I'm an alien, right, I can make you have an experience,

(01:00:09):
that's what it seems like. I can make you not
be afraid. I can make you be afraid. I can
turn off your people report they're incapacitated completely and they
can't move. I can turn off your ability to move.
I can turn it back on again. I can turn
off your nuclear weapons. I can turn it back on again.
I don't seem to be using electromonetic fields to do this.
I mean this kind of capacity, like you were saying,

(01:00:35):
feeds right into what's really revolutionary and what disclosure really
to me means, which is the disclosure of the deep,
dark truth, which is that we don't understand it and
we can't control it.

Speaker 2 (01:00:50):
Well, we want okay, right, be careful what you wish for, right,
the oldest thing, right, So we all want to know
if we're a loan in the universe or not? Right? Okay,
how many movies does Hollywood have to make each year
on this subject? Obviously, we have an appetite for it,
and we want to know do we really really really right?

(01:01:19):
That's the crazy part. I think that we want it?
Are we ready for it?

Speaker 1 (01:01:25):
That's the well But the other part of it is
also do we really just already know? So that's that's
actually why I wrote my book, is because I think
I want to make some one of someone who read
my book said, look, my book is called have a
Nice Disclosure. The reason it's called to have a nice
disclosure is because I think we can actually have a

(01:01:45):
nice disclosure. But we have to switch things around. We
have to stop this idea of like there are people
who know and we're just really hoping that they reveal
the truth and they have all the power and we're
just like, ah, maybe they'll say the right things if
we asked them to do it legally or whatever, And
it's like, actually, turn that around. We each have the

(01:02:06):
truth inside of us. We each actually know something, We
each know a piece of the truth.

Speaker 2 (01:02:11):
Well is that is that? Is that good enough? And
we're going to find out. We're going to find out
after that, you're not supposed to say yes, it's not
good enough a teaser. Our guest tonight, the one and
only Julia moss Bridge, is with us. Julia, you stay
right there. This is Fade to Black. We're going to
take a quick break. We'll be right back. Stay with us.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
MHM.

Speaker 2 (01:03:03):
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(01:03:27):
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just visit Consciouslifeexpo dot com. I will be hosting and

(01:03:52):
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(01:04:14):
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This is a great conference right in the heart of
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(01:04:38):
be hosting and presenting once again at Contact in the
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and everything else that you need is at Contactinthedsert dot com.

(01:05:01):
Want to change your life, want that paradigm shift, Then
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Celebration of the Sun June twenty third through July one,
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(01:06:34):
at Machu Pichu with Brian Forrester and Hidden Inc. Of Tours.
Amazing tour so far, Brian, But we're here to announce
what we're gonna do next year in twenty twenty six.
What's going on?

Speaker 4 (01:06:46):
Okay, November twenty twenty six, We're going to have our
major tour of Peru and Bolivia, either a pre or
post tour of Perakas and Nasca on the coast, and
then after that six days in.

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
Easter Island bucket list Easter Island. Come join Brian and
Ian his amazing team here at Hidney Gaturs for Peru,
Bolivia and Easter Island. Signing out, say goodbye Brian, Bye gang.

Speaker 1 (01:07:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:07:21):
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and it's doc again Rivermoonwellness dot Com. All right, welcome back.

(01:08:11):
I just walked outside in the rain. Yeah, wonderful, wonderful.
Our guest tonight, the one and only Julia Mosbridge, is
joining us. We're talking about disclosure, and you know it's Julia,
so we're gonna talk about the brain as well. It's
where I get my education on Edge mcationkin That's what

(01:08:32):
I do is I absorb and if I absorb, You're
gonna absorb right along with me. A great conversation, Julia, I, okay,
I want to We're gonna get back to disclosure in
just a second. But we were talking about Libertyville, Mondoline,

(01:08:55):
Zion Jakegan earlier. Yea, this is one of the moments
where my path was defined for me. And I didn't
find out until I was an adult. But I was
in fourth grade in Waukegan. I'm eight years old, summer day,
and I'm walking across the street from our apartment to
our school, which was Clearview Elementary, and I'm walking to

(01:09:16):
go play with my friends, and something catches my eye
in the sky. I'm eight, I'm a kid, and I
look up and it's the Hindenburg. Not the Goodyear Blimp.
Not no, the Hindenburg, the rigid and it's low. Does
it have like the rims the whole shot right? So,

(01:09:40):
and I'm looking at it and I could see people
in the windows, and it's moving across the school yard.
So I chase it. I run underneath it until it
goes over the trees and is gone. All right, that's it.
That's the event. As an adult, I'm now doing what
I do today, and this was a couple of years ago.

(01:10:03):
I'm researching some stuff and I'm clicking through and the
thought popped him, Hey that thing you saw the Hindenburg
in nineteen seventy or whenever it was seventy one, and
I wonder what that was. So I go and I look,

(01:10:25):
it must be an easy thing to research. It's Chicago.
I know the date, right, and I know what I saw?
What was it?

Speaker 1 (01:10:33):
All right?

Speaker 2 (01:10:34):
Let's see was it the US Navy?

Speaker 1 (01:10:36):
Was it this?

Speaker 2 (01:10:38):
Okay? And then you know what I found out changed
my life. There were no airships in the world since
nineteen thirty eight zero. So I'm sitting here as an
adult going, okay, WTF moment? What did I see?

Speaker 1 (01:10:59):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
And it really messed with me a lot. Time loop
time thing, time warp, uh, metaverse? What what could it
have been? And that happened in friggin' walk hegan? Right,

(01:11:21):
I you know, and that's why I do what I do.
It's it's it's absolutely nuts when you go through those
experiences and then as an adult you try to I
wonder how many people have had experiences like that as
a kid, and it gets put in a box, put
on the shelf and forgotten about I forgot about it. Yeah,

(01:11:44):
you know.

Speaker 1 (01:11:45):
Actually it's really hard to for the brain too, like
you were referring to earlier, when the brain sees something,
when you see something, let's separate the brain in the mind.
When you have the experience of seeing something that you
can't quite hang on the hook, not like quite like
you really don't know what the heck is going on, right,

(01:12:06):
it's a WTF WTF time is a thousand and it's
really actually people have a hard time remembering it, myself included, right,
because if it doesn't hang on a hook, it doesn't
have a place to go in memory almost. And you
also kind of don't want to remember it because there's
fears related to it, like did I hallucinate that? Am

(01:12:29):
I crazy? You know, especially as an adult when you
find out you know, of course the hit a bird
wasn't around right in the early seventies, so so you must.
I wonder how you hold that now, Like I wonder
that the brain likes to be predictive. The brain is.

(01:12:50):
There's a friend of mine who wrote a wonderful book
called Your Brain is a Time Machine, And it's all
about how all your brain cares about is trying to
predict the next thing correctly so you can operate in
the world. And that's a really important skill. But I
sort of believe that your brain is a time machine
in a different way as well. In that I mean,
I don't just sort of believe. I know that from

(01:13:13):
my own research that your brain activity, your body activity,
or physiology predicts future events that you know, sort of
should be unpredictable according to the forward movement, the assumed
forward movement of time, and so I kind of I
really relate to that show Stranger Things. You know, here

(01:13:37):
are these kids who are growing up, you know, in
the eighties in an area where there's this government stuff
going on. We're they're seeing and experiencing weird things. I
just glombed on. I mean, a lot of people glommed
onto that show, but it very much feels like that
area there was some weird stuff happening, and I don't

(01:13:57):
know if it was playing with our minds, Like maybe
you were the only one who saw that because your
mind was sensitive to some kind of thing that was happening.
Maybe it was a natural thing that wasn't produced by
some you know, Dark State secret project. Right maybe maybe right,
Maybe there's like gases that rise from the ground that

(01:14:17):
make people hallucinate. Maybe there's the Hindenburg or something like
it that traveled in time, because everything can travel in
time in ways that we don't understand that are really
obvious to us in the future but we don't get now.
But regardless, it's the uh, it's these childhood experiences we
have that I mean, it's remarkable how much they said

(01:14:40):
our course and how and I'm no different. And I
think many people who are listening, if you look back
at a childhood experience, there's one or two that I
think you could say, oh, yeah, right, well, I obviously
had to do what I'm doing now because of this.
It's it's it's powerful. And I kind of wonder if
that itself is a timelife that just happens naturally, like

(01:15:03):
our future selves, our adult selves somehow create the experience
to draw us forward into where we need to be.

Speaker 2 (01:15:14):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Maybe that's a romantic notion, or maybe it's just.

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
I love the romantic notion part of it. We clearly
don't know everything. When when when I when I listened
to a physicist today, go, man, I'm repeating like a
broken record. When it comes to physicists, it blindly it's
all the known laws of physics. Dude that or do that?

Speaker 1 (01:15:42):
Right?

Speaker 2 (01:15:43):
Uh, we don't know everything.

Speaker 1 (01:15:45):
How how all the known laws of physics. It's like, fine,
obviously we don't know all the laws of physics exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
On the other side of the universe, they they have
the same laws of physics that we have here. Yeah,
maybe just maybe they figured other stuff out or.

Speaker 1 (01:16:06):
At different times they have the same laws of physics. No, right,
maybe they change over time, or maybe there's opposing laws
of physics that depend on what to mention you're in,
or maybe the the laws of physics only apply to
the physical world and what you're dealing with is non physical.
I mean like it's like there's a thousand reasons why
the laws of physics is just a crappy argument for anything.

(01:16:27):
It feels like people get into it. I mean, my
followers a theoretical physicists I personally experienced. I talk with
other people whose parents have been theoretical physicists. I deal
with physicists a lot. It feels like in the world
of physics and this is not everyone in physics. But
there's a lot of this. There's a feeling like you
got into physics because you desperately wanted to make simple

(01:16:49):
what is complicated, and it is naturally a complex system
that we don't understand, and you wanted to understand something.
It's almost like you wanted to control something. And so
you said, I will understand this, and I will make
these laws, and I will explain to myself and feel
more safe because I understand these laws. And that was

(01:17:10):
the certainly my father's relationship to physics. On one side,
and on the other side, there's this beautiful and still
is this piece. He's still alive and he still has
this beautiful relationship with the mystery, and the mystery is
what pulls you forward. And when you were talking about
earlier about motivating you, yes, there's this mystery and how

(01:17:33):
that relationship feels really pure and mystical obviously and spiritual.
Whereas this other piece about control and you know, I'm
going to break it down and make it so simple
that it's almost useless, but at least I can control
this small system feels almost like pathetic.

Speaker 2 (01:17:52):
Well that's a really good point because when technology started
to take over good utenberg press, right, you can like
go back that far the wheel when things started to
take over, then the considerations of the mind and consciousness.
You know, it's just slowly tipped the other way right

(01:18:15):
to where now we're consumed by technology today and we're there,
that's fine. But now this consideration of who we are
and consciousness and these other ideas are coming back into play,
and that I find that extremely interesting and hopeful for

(01:18:35):
the future.

Speaker 1 (01:18:37):
Yeah, me too, And I think and that's the piece
that's the golden thread, and that actually goes back to
this experience as children of what is the golden thread
that pulls you forward through your life? And it's never
for anyone, I guess maybe by definition because it inspires you,
but it's never oh I wanted to shake my finger

(01:18:58):
and tell someone that we're wrong, wanted to control something.
It's always this like feeling like you had with the Carvette.
There was a feeling inside you like this is a
fantastic machine that hum amazed made and I'm amazed, you know.
It's this feeling of awe. It's this feeling of what
is happening? This is something to me that's the golden

(01:19:21):
thread for anyone who follows, you know, what's in their
heart to do? And I don't mean as a job
like who cares about what you do for your job?
But what's in your heart to do in your life,
you know, and your soul and your connections with people
and with the world. That's or with your creativity. That's
that's the golden thread, and that's that's the stuff you mentioned.

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
You mentioned stranger Things, and you mentioned liberty bill Is
I I'm on the edge of my seat and what
what did it? I feel like there's a big reveal here?

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
What? What?

Speaker 2 (01:20:00):
What's going on? Julia?

Speaker 1 (01:20:04):
I don't know if it's a big reveal or small reveal,
but I was ambivalent about revealing it at all. So
I started writing this book Have a Nice Disclosure, and
I'm writing about how I'm trying to help people see
in themselves their own disclosure, what can they learn from
their own wisdom, and also reveal some things about, you know,

(01:20:25):
how time works, or at least how I think time works,
and the technologies that are I guess we will call
deep technologies that people say, are you know, back extrapolated
from UFOs, but maybe who knows how that all works?
But that just seemed to be very new and interesting
and consciousness based. And top of that list is unconditional love,
which is the recognition that there's some kind of a

(01:20:47):
physical force that I like to call universal love, and
when you get in touch with it, when you're in
a state where you're in touch with it, which isn't always,
but like when you can be in that state where
you're in touch with this force, it's like going out
into the sun, in that you're not in charge of
the sun. It comes up and it goes down, but
you can go out into it and you can feel

(01:21:08):
what it feels like to be in the sun. And
when you feel what it feels like to be in
touch with universal love, it feels like unconditional love. And
so I've been studying unconditional love and when it does
for people. That this is going to get to the
liberty of whole thing, but there's a relationship. I've been
studying what it does for people and how it changes people.

(01:21:31):
And one of the things is that I've learned from
two studies is that people are able to predict future events,
in other words, be psychic or be pre cognitive about
what's going to happen in the future based on a
random number generate or so basically a rigorous study of
precognition scientific study, they're more statistically significantly more accurate about

(01:21:52):
that future event in two studies that I've tested it.
When they are experiencing higher feelings or more feelings of
unconditional love, it's like unconditional love or being in touch
with this universal love opens them up to a time
their time portals opened up. What do you do about it?

Speaker 2 (01:22:13):
Do you hand them a puppy during the study.

Speaker 1 (01:22:16):
No, it's not a manipulation. It's a measurement study. So
it's just I give them. I have a scholarly definition
of unconditional love that I've validated, and then I say,
read this paragraph. This is what I'm saying. Unconditional love is.
To what extent do you feel this for yourself, for others,
for strangers, for animals, for you know, the device on
which you're taking this.

Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Is there a stronger unconditional love than looking into the
eyes of a puppy?

Speaker 1 (01:22:41):
If there is, I'm hard pressed right right the same page. Yeah. No.
When I when I first started learning remote viewing, one
of the images that I was remote being was of
a dog and I didn't know that it was precognitive
remote beeing so to be revealed in the future what

(01:23:02):
I was drawing. And so when I started drawing this being,
I had the sense of this being and I had
four legs, and it was like the feeling of the
energy of this being was like, this being came to
the planet to help human beings understand unconditional love. I
don't know what this being is, but I want one.
This is amazing. And then of course the pictures is
of a dog, and I was just like.

Speaker 2 (01:23:22):
Yes, wow, hello, it was so cool.

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
Yeah, but this unconditional love piece going through that just
writing about it, even though I studied, I started a
nonprofit that works with unconditional love and technology. But even
writing about it did something to my brain where now
at the end of the book, I think I'm at
the end of the book, and I realized it's not

(01:23:47):
the end. I have to talk about this thing that
happened to me in seventh grade at Buttterfield School in Libertyville, Illinois.
And so I'm like, oh God, okay, I have to
give a personal disclosure, and I have to do it
coming from a place of unconditional love for myself, but
also for the people who created this environment that happened

(01:24:11):
to me. And so here's the deal, and I write
about this in more detail of the book, but the
basic situation is that there's this There was this Gifted
and talented program. You might have heard of Gate Gifted
and Talented Education, which is a program like Jordan Joe's
Eck talks about this, he's called Merciful Martin. I think

(01:24:32):
on X he talks about his time in the aughts
in this program. So that gay program happened in the
nineties and in the aughts, and I think probably elements
of it are still happening now. It's Gifted and talented
programs are amazing, They're wonderful. What Jordan and I are
both talking about is a subset of these programs where

(01:24:53):
students are sort of tagged and monitored not just during
the program but outside of school and then for the
rest of their lives. It scenes so at least that's
been my experience. And so I was one of the
students that was tagged and monitored. I've had my AQ
test and many, many, many times in that program. But
also that's okay, that's kind of flattering, like ooh, who

(01:25:16):
think you're special? You know, I kind of knew that
already because they had pulled me out and said, you know,
if you want to stay in from recess and do
computer coding, you're allowed. And I was like, yeah, I
get a special privilege. So so that part of it
felt good, like here's this place where I can just
go at my own pace and learn, and I was

(01:25:37):
academically gifted, and that was all wonderful. The weird stuff
was being pulled out once a week for these quote
unquote hearing tests where they would put these headphones on us,
and they weren't hearing tests. I ended up studying psycho acoustics,
so I know what a hearing test is. They were

(01:25:58):
not hearing tests. They were playing us these sounds largely
through I think our left ears that were these high
pitched like like a fax machine or calling AOL. And
they would ask us questions, but they weren't questions like
do you hear that? They knew we heard it. It
was well about threshold, it wasn't too high, like this

(01:26:20):
was not a hearing test. They were asking like how
do you feel? What does to make you think? They
were playing with our minds. Somehow it reminds me a
little of what Monroe's that you did, although I don't
know if it was any relationship to that. So that
was one weird thing. Another weird thing was every once
in a while there was this pink, viscous drink that

(01:26:42):
they would have us that was called They would say
it was florid, and my memory is that I would
spit it out. But I don't know if that memory
is real or not, because it sort of feels intellectual,
like now I know, like, don't you wouldn't drink fluoride, right,

(01:27:05):
So I don't know about that. Another thing that they
did was they would we would take these field trips
and then I can't remember what happened on the field trip,
and then we would come back. The other loss of
memory thing that is really clear because I remember everything
around it is once a week I was a perfect student, like,

(01:27:26):
you know, just a model student. And I even won
an award for good citizenship in eighth grade and stuff
like that. I was voted like most likely to succeed
in eighth grade. There's ridiculous stuff. So perfect student. But
once a week I was pulled out of class and
I was supposed to talk to my counselor, and I
remember dreading. The only part of the school that I

(01:27:46):
really remember, well, this is like nineteen eighty one. Is
that part the path to the by counselor's office. So
I see the lockers on my right, here's the principal's office.
There's another room here that's probably like some admin room
or where they had copiers, and then there was the
door to my counselor's office. I would turn left, and

(01:28:06):
then I would turn to the first room on the right,
like I remember all of that as I'm walking down there.
Remember walking down there, I'm just in dread. I get
into the office with my counselor. Sometimes there's one person
there her, sometimes there's her and I think her husband,
but a man. That's it. That's all I remember until
I leave the office. I opened the door, I noticed

(01:28:29):
the decorations on the door that block anyone from seeing
through the window. And then I walk back and I'm
in that same sort of state of like a dread.
I don't know what happened in that office every week,
but I do know that I would like to know,
maybe or maybe I wouldn't like to know, but I

(01:28:50):
do know that they were screening all of us for
psychic abilities. So that was going on, but that was
more like a playtime thing, like here sent our cards,
let's play the Center cards. And so I realized some
of these things we're inappropriate. When you know, my parents
got divorced. I met my mom's new to be spouse,

(01:29:15):
who's a woman, and I'm sitting with her and she's
learning getting to know me, and we go out to
lunch and I'm like, oh, let's play the let's play
the Zen our card game. And she's like, what does
en our card? And I'm like, oh, you know, like
the symbols and we pretend we're psychic and we try
to figure it out and she's like, I don't know
what you're talking about, and that's really weird, but okay,
we'll play the game because you know, I'm getting to

(01:29:35):
know you. So I start to notice that and then
it just goes away, and it all comes back to
me through various different times in my life when I
do something or answer some classified ad to go. Like
once I was living in Palouelta in college. I took

(01:29:56):
some time off and I thought I wanted to go
live near my ex boyfriend in Stanford, which was a
bizarre thing to do, but I did for six months
and I needed a job, and either in the paper
or my dad gave me a reference to someone at
Lockheed Martin in Powalatto. They say, oh, they need someone
to do word processing, and you understand technology, and like

(01:30:17):
back then, like someone who ndersold technology should do word processing, right,
And so so I went and they hired me on
the spot. And the only thing I remember from that
day because I quit that same day after the end
of the day. The only thing I remember is the
interview and then the end of the day when I'm
typing a letter and I'm sobbing and shaking and I resign,

(01:30:48):
and the weirdest thing is like, I'm thinking, I'm resigning.
I don't know what happened today with my time, but
I can't work here. And the guy says, oh, we
think you'd be a great asset keep barden. What does
he fucking know? I'm sorry, what does he know? Like
he has he has met me that morning for half
an hour ostensibly, and he's all like, oh, you should stay,

(01:31:13):
and I'm like, what, Like this is so weird? And
I left and I never know what happened during that
missing time. So I have a really good almost photographic
memory for an auditory memory for many things. But those
are some.

Speaker 2 (01:31:27):
Times when I, as a neuroscientist, how do you process that?

Speaker 1 (01:31:32):
Well, this is kind of like what you were saying
about how this thing that you don't understand. So at
first I processed it like I just don't understand what
happened there. So I'm just maybe it kind of didn't happen.
It's nonsensical, right, it.

Speaker 2 (01:31:51):
Did happen's cat or something?

Speaker 1 (01:31:54):
Yeah, like maybe it wasn't there. Maybe it was a dream,
right right, right, I don't know you here some of
these stories. But then when things like that would continue
to happen. And then when when I applied for a
job with the federal government and they asked for all
of my transcripts, I'm very much a good at two shoes,
so I'm like, I guess I'll have to go back
to kindergarten. So I wrote, you know, Butterfield School, and

(01:32:15):
I said, hey, can you give me by transcripts from
first grade to eighth grade? And they sent them to me.
And when I saw that the comments where they put
the information from there program the day of the program.
I was in what was called SORE, soa r which
was a predecessor to Gate and TAG. When I saw
that all the comments where they would write about the

(01:32:35):
SORE program were redacted, which is and they were redacted
by hand, like so for instance, one way to redact
is electronically where you just put a big square, but
this was like a like you could see the cutout
of the cardboard that they put on the copy or
put on the microphone. So it's like that's a lot
of work you were in SORE. Yeah, so SORE. People

(01:33:01):
don't talk about SORE as much as they do about Gate,
but I'm pretty convinced that SORE was a predecessor to Gate.
It was like a pilot program, and I did a
little research into it. So SORE comes from ac in
South Carolina, which is near Augusta, Georgia. It's also near
where there's a bunch of cyber stuff now and there
was a military presence before. But also it's very near

(01:33:23):
the Savannah River nuclear facility that made a sort of
famously processed I believe for Plutonian in World War Two.
It was like I think it used to be DuPont
or became DuPont. Oh, I think it used to be
DuPont and became Savannah River. Okay, So interestingly, the woman
who created ach and in the late seventies. The earliest

(01:33:49):
reference I could find was nineteen seventy eight. She her
husband worked at Savannah River Nuclear Facility. Okay, so much,
you know, that's who cares. And I'll just tell you
a little more from my research. She created the program.
The name SORE originally was the acronym that I just

(01:34:11):
find incredibly creepy students on active research.

Speaker 2 (01:34:16):
Literally, so this is stranger, right, Yeah, what do.

Speaker 1 (01:34:22):
You mean students on active research? What? And so it's
to sound like we are researching these students. So I'm like, Okay,
So I called my mom. My. Mom's super smart, you know,
got a full ride scholarship to University of Chicago, just
freaking smart. Grew up in a family of eight kids
with it it itinerate, alcoholic father, all sorts of abuse

(01:34:46):
in the family, and first person to go to college,
totally broke family, didn't have dinner half of the time.
She's extremely thoughtful about, you know, sort of what she
notices and observe it. So I call I'm like hey,
what do you think about the sword program? And I
was in as a kid, and she goes, without any
prompting other than what do you think about the sword program?

(01:35:08):
She goes, oh yeah, she goes, yeah, they were studying you.
And I'm like, okay, who's they And she goes, I
don't know, Cia, I don't know. They didn't ask us.
She said, you told us you were in the program.
You told us what was going on. And we were like,
that's weird, Cay, can I share something with you?

Speaker 2 (01:35:30):
And this thought just popped in my head. Fringing Liberty
Bill walkegan 'sion Waukegan. Anybody look at it on a map.
You can see we're just talking about, you know, very
small townshead or next to each other, that touch each other. Okay,
all right. I from the period that I was in

(01:35:52):
Waukegan at the apartment across from Clearview Elementary School about
a year year and a half, I do not remember
ever sleeping in my bed, Okay, I don't have. As
soon as I moved from Waukegan to Indianapolis, another military

(01:36:16):
base by the way. From that point on, I remember
everything in my life, but that period in Waukegan. I
don't remember going to bed. I don't remember what bed
I slept in. I don't remember getting up, waking up,
getting dressed, going to school. I don't remember any not

(01:36:37):
even once.

Speaker 1 (01:36:39):
How old were you when you left Wakegan nine? So
when you saw the hiddenburg thing, they were eight yep,
and that's when you were not sleeping in your bed
or you don't remember that yep. Yeah, I mean, I
gotta tell you that. There's just everyone in my store
class had some relationships to the federal government. Everyone in
my Sore class had some sort of mystical experience. Everyone,

(01:37:07):
maybe not everyone, many of us had seen UFOs or
had weird like like I had ball lightning in my
house and our house has been struck by lightning in
the corner of my room and stuff like that. There.
I think my mom was right. They were studying us,
and I dug deeper and I did a Foyer request

(01:37:29):
about it, and I was like, I had this situation
like maybe it's the Air Force, because like Sore, you
know flight, I don't know maybe, And I dug deeper
and so I submitted a Foyer request. This is just
last year twenty twenty four, November ish, and a few

(01:37:53):
days after I submitted my Floyer request, I get this call.
I had for a job in the federal government in
February of twenty twenty four. No word, I get this call. Hey,
you remember how you applied for that job. We're actually
interested in you. Oh, super interesting. Okay, great, Oh that
sounds like a great job. Okay, cool, okay cool. So anyway,

(01:38:14):
we'll see you know, this is the first interview, and
then I'll let you know in a couple of days
if you passed to the next interview. Okay, great. So
then a few days pass I get an email from FOYA.
So since when is FOYA this responsive? I get an
email from FOYA that says, you know, do you really
want to assentionn im paraphrasing, do you really want to

(01:38:35):
go through with this request because you would have to
really know what exact department of the Air Force administered
this program called SORE that you're talking about, and so
you know, maybe you want to drop it. And I
was like, maybe they're saying I should drop it. Maybe
maybe they don't want me having any outstanding FOYA requests.

(01:38:58):
You know, if I were to work for the federal
govern maybe I don't know if that's a thing or not,
but maybe that's a thing. So I'll just say yes
and see what happened. So I send the email yes.
Three minutes later, I get a phone call, Hey, you
passed the first interview. You're ready to go to the next.
So I know that this is the timing because I
wrote it all down in my journal. I'm very diligent
with my notes, and I was like that, that's very interesting. Anyway,

(01:39:24):
I did end up getting the job, and I did
go through a bunch of things that reminded me a
lot of US or kind of surveillance and testing. But
of course, because dog came, the offer was resen so
that didn't happen. But I ended up with a security clearance.
And so what I learned when you have a security
clearance is that you can talk about anything that if

(01:39:49):
you don't know what's classified, it as your own personal experience,
even if it is classified, and you can talk about it.
And so I was told by someone and a friend
who has a clearance, she said, just in case you
ever do end up working the federal government or using
your clearance, you should tell everyone now what you know,
because it's your experience, because if it is classified, you

(01:40:09):
won't be able to say anything once you're read into
the program. If that happens, and I said I'm going
to write a book, I'm putting it into my book.

Speaker 2 (01:40:22):
The rabbit Hole conspiracy stuff around the SORE program and
Gate that is that is crazy town. And I don't
dismiss like any of it. I can't here.

Speaker 1 (01:40:41):
Let me.

Speaker 2 (01:40:42):
Let me just mention this conspiracy theories. I would say
I'm a conspiracist. I'm okay with that because I enjoy
the idea of the conspiracy.

Speaker 1 (01:40:56):
I do lot. What do you enjoy about what if?

Speaker 2 (01:41:02):
What if? But what you don't want? This is where psychosis,
deep troubling trauma comes into play. Is your knee deep
into something like that, and then you find out that
it's true, that's what you don't That's where you know
what I mean. And when it comes to things like well,

(01:41:23):
if you look at like Project Northwoods, look at mk Ultra,
I mean, Northwoods is one of the most disturbing things ever.
But it's true and it really happened, which was talk No.
Northwoods was the Joint Chief of Staff formulating a plan

(01:41:47):
against Cuba where we would shoot down a commercial plane
with people on it and blame it on Cuba so
we could turn around and start a war. And that
was signed off by the Joint Chiefs and it went
to Johnson. This is right after Kennedy and what did
you know from them public documentary? They it's all out there.

Speaker 1 (01:42:10):
Just do it.

Speaker 2 (01:42:12):
Now. When you hear about Project Northwoods, what do you say, Well, Okay,
great conspiracy, good idea for a movie. They did. It's
not true. That can't be real. And then you find
out it is. And that's where you don't want to go,
oh crap, So I guess all conspiracies are real.

Speaker 1 (01:42:29):
Yeah, that's the thing. And also you don't want to
go you know, everything the CIA does is bad, or
everything that ye FBI does is bad, or anything that
anyone does is bad. It's like there were reasons. So
what I'm convinced about with this is where unconditional love
comes in. What I'm convinced about with the sore program
and the follow up surveillance that happens, and everything is

(01:42:52):
very disturbing, including like me getting a radi Asian burnout
of nowhere in my early I mean my early fifties.
It's it's disturbing. It bothers me. It bothers me that
someone felt like my life didn't matter and my parents

(01:43:14):
didn't deserve to be told what was going on. And
it also is the golden thread. I mean, so this
is the thing where it's sort of like the universe
is like, Okay, so I have these weird hearing tests
that are going hear. I become someone who's interested in
psycho acoustics. I become someone who's interested in cognitive neuroscience.

(01:43:38):
I learned about how to do experiments that are ethical
with people who have extraordinary capacities, like psychic capacities. I
start working with telepathy tapes and do work with people
who are non speakers who have autism and try to
understand how they're amazing minds work. That's you know, it's

(01:43:59):
like the sea just planted, and of course I was
going to do what I'm doing right now. And so
do I want to say, oh I wish that never happened. Well, no,
because now I get to move forward and try to
do it better and more ethically. If by it I
mean trying to understand the human mind, which I think

(01:44:21):
is what they were trying to do. To do it
better and more ethically than it was done, which wasn't
at all.

Speaker 2 (01:44:28):
Do you ever wonder what they did with the data
from the SORE program and how it was possibly applied
and utilized.

Speaker 1 (01:44:41):
All the time. Yeah, you know, I found out later
when I was encouraged to do a twenty three and
me study. When I did this cognitive it was like
an eighteen month cognitive longitudinal study where they were going
to give me cognitive tests and they look at my
DNA they try to figure out DNA condition DA. They

(01:45:02):
asked me what I eat, They asked me all these
medical questions, and so I thought, I was fascinated. I'm like,
I want to do this. I want to do this,
you know, and when I did it, and I want
to find out what kind of tasks they're using, because
of course I create tasks for people to do, and
you have to be cleverer about your tasks, and they
were very clever about their tasks. And all of the

(01:45:22):
tasks that they were trying to ask they were asking
me to do and that I did could be used
to measure regular sort of personality and cognitive capacities and things,
but they could also be used to measure psychic abilities,
so they would be very excellent dual use tasks to
measure both. And I noticed that and I was like,
oh cool, maybe they're measuring psychicabilities too. Of course it
wasn't in the concette form, so it's again you know,

(01:45:44):
right right, if that's true, it's still unethical. But you know,
I was like, all right, well, I think I maybe
see through this. But one of the medical questions they
asked me was when you were in your twenties, where
you're diagnosed with a gang they insist on your ankle,
and I happened to know that you can't in the answers, Yes,
when I was in college, I was diagnosed with a

(01:46:05):
gangly in system my eagle. Now I happened to know
that you can't get that information from someone's DNA. So
what were they wanting me to know that they had
my college medical records? Were they wanting me to know that? Like, yes,
this is more surveillance.

Speaker 2 (01:46:21):
That's pretty scary, that's pretty say, it was scary.

Speaker 1 (01:46:24):
And then it happened again like a couple of weeks later,
when they asked, have you have you recently been diagnosed
with a torn rotator cuff and this time, I hadn't
been diagnosed because I had a rotator cuff in both shoulders.
I don't know why I woke up with them, and
then I knew that that's what was going on. I thought,

(01:46:45):
what's the point of going to the doctor. I can
just let it heal itself. So I didn't go to
the doctors. I was never diagnosed. So I said no
because I wasn't diagnosed. But I got freaked out because
they knew, like clearly they knew something that wasn't in
my medical records. I mean, how.

Speaker 2 (01:47:05):
I don't know if I want to know that answer.

Speaker 1 (01:47:08):
I don't know if I want to know that answer either.
And at the same time, I always come back to this,
which is like the solidity of my sanity is what
is true is people are always doing the best they can,
even if the best they can is horrible, even if
the best they can is evil. They have no other

(01:47:30):
way to operate because if they did, they would do better,
you know what I mean? Yes, And so it's just
like they were studying us. They had some kind of
probably national security reason why they needed to study us.
They were probably studying you. They're probably setting all of
us out there in Liberty Villain and what you went

(01:47:51):
the line. It was a weird it was a weird place.
It had had an interesting creative people in it. I
don't know if it was in the water or what,
but you know, like, for instance, Tom Morello came from
libertyvill The guy who did Regigez the Machine probably related
to your friends Steve Morrell.

Speaker 2 (01:48:09):
Yes, but that makes a lot of sense. That makes
a lot of sense. Okay, in the time that we
have left, I would ask you this question anyway, but
I'm just looking at the time that we have left
because it requires a big answer. But staying on this subject,
I asked my guests last night if they had seen

(01:48:33):
the movie Defending Your Life.

Speaker 1 (01:48:35):
Yeah. I love that.

Speaker 2 (01:48:37):
It's amazing, right, And one of my favorite scenes in
the movie is something that has been repeated so much.
I don't know if it's dogma or not, but we
hear it so much, and it's this rip Torn says,
you know, I use fifty one percent of my brain, right,

(01:48:58):
guess how much you use? I don't know more and
he goes, ha ha, you use between three and five
percent of your brain. Now let's stop right there. It's
a great point in that movie, and I think that
we all stop it, but we have been told this
our entire lives, right. So my question is to the neuroscientist,

(01:49:23):
is why did nature give us all of this to use?
That is there is? The obvious answer is we used
to use it and we don't now will we have
the ability to access it? Or do we indeed use
all of our brain but we don't know it? What's

(01:49:45):
the answer.

Speaker 1 (01:49:47):
We definitely use all of our brain? How how we
use our brain? As the key you're using all of
your brain cells are alive because they're being used. If
they weren't being used, they would die, right. So we
have cells in our brain called glial cells that go
around and it kind of clean up and if there's
a sell it it isn't being connected to other cells,

(01:50:08):
it's not being activated. It starts to addri fee and
this thing goes all right, you're a goner. And that's
a natural part of the learning process is you trim
things that aren't being used and you keep things that
are being used, which is why they say use it,
lose it when it comes to mental activity. So we
are using all of our brains. Flower, we using all

(01:50:32):
of our brains is the difference. So the whole thing
that people say about you're only using teen percent of
their brain. You could sort of make an argument that
that's true. If you say that you're only using tempercent
of your brain. Well, you know, but what does that
even mean. We don't understand the neural code, so that
I think that's an old way of thinking about the
brain and the mind. And then it assumes that the

(01:50:53):
job of the brain is to be really active so
that you could process more or get more inform when
in fact the more.

Speaker 2 (01:51:04):
Natural way to think about things.

Speaker 1 (01:51:07):
You think that more activity is more information, better processing,
but when in fact there what I'm learning from non
speakers in the way that their brains work, their minds
and their minds work, is that they are released from
some of the processing that suppresses most people's capacities. A

(01:51:30):
lot of brain processing, I think, and there's plenty of
interesting recent evidence to suggest this has to do with
suppressing psychic abilities and connections. Just think how hard it
is to live in a world when you're justice connected
to your friends' thoughts as you are to the person

(01:51:51):
you don't even know that lives in Ontario but just
shows up because you know, I don't know, there's some
kind of resonance or something that's how that's how these
non speakers are experiencing things, and so that is really noisy.
That is really hard, and so a lot of the
job of the brain instead, I think, is to say, okay,

(01:52:14):
not that like we're going to stay in the body,
We're gonna like have We're going to just listen to
what people say, and that's going to be the way
they we learn what they think, instead of bonding them
with them telepathically, even though we can do that because
we have to focus on survival.

Speaker 2 (01:52:29):
You took the words right out of my mouth, right,
That's exactly right. Survival is ultimately the brain's job. Right now,
if you try to get off of that, the brain's
gonna say not so fast, not so fast.

Speaker 1 (01:52:46):
And now we're starting to live in a world where
we can survive in a different way and some of
those things can be released. And so I'm not saying
it's easy to be a nonspeaker or like that's a
more of a place or anything. I'm just saying it
reveals something that's going on in all of us, which
is the suppression. And they just don't have that suppression.

Speaker 2 (01:53:07):
This is the spiritual side of the conversation right here.
And and what I mean by that is when does
a molecule communicate to another molecule and have developed these
ideas who whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa. You

(01:53:30):
know what I mean? A mitochondria suddenly is going You
know what, let's contemplate the size of the universe as
well as electrons. Let's talk about that. Where does that come?
It has to be something else that is completely not tangible.
It's got to be something greater. That is it?

Speaker 1 (01:53:55):
God?

Speaker 2 (01:53:55):
Is it spiritual? I don't know, but it's not. It's
not an eighth grade biology class where these things are
poured into beakers. That's that's not where it comes from.
It's got to be something deeper.

Speaker 1 (01:54:10):
Well, it'll and like literally has to be something deeper.
Like again, we know, we know what is the only
thing that we know for sure is real and that's
our experience. That's back to Descartes. We know that that's it.
Everything else comes from that. I assume this chair is
here because I'm rocking in it. I can hit it,

(01:54:30):
it makes a sound, I can feel it. It's hard.
You know, I'm sitting on it. It's holding me up.
So I go, Okay, I think there's something called a
share there in the physical world. But that's all extrapolation
based on my experience. The one thing that I have
that's immediate is my experience, and so really it has
to become first experience, which is non physical by definition.

(01:54:53):
It's non physical, like you can't point to it has
none of the physical traits of anything that has to
come first.

Speaker 2 (01:55:04):
Peak.

Speaker 1 (01:55:08):
Yeah, cart had some really interesting dreams that let him
along to try to sort of invent the scientific method
and think about the difference between material non material things.
I think that anyone and everyone, and this is just
I'm devoted to this idea. There is no genius comes

(01:55:28):
through everyone right there at that moment, genius came through
to Kart, and maybe some people genius comes through more
because they're less filtered out. But you know, we all
have it in us, and that's that's the real gift
of being aware of the connection and the love of

(01:55:51):
the connection with the university. But there it is.

Speaker 2 (01:55:54):
Yeah, I know, here's my here's my struggle. Yeah, here's
my struggle.

Speaker 1 (01:56:00):
Goal.

Speaker 2 (01:56:00):
You go back Aristotle Socrates to court. Yeah, John d Right,
we can look at these Isaac Newton is a really
good example. We look back at these profound philosophers and
scientists that had severe daddy issues that they were working out.

(01:56:23):
But that's another that's another story, but right right, right right,
And so these profound crazy and where did it get us?
We are what we are fighting on social media about bullshit?
It's like we devolved. It's like, how do you how

(01:56:46):
do you go from the antique thee mechanism, you know,
how do you go from that in two thousand years
to this cesspool of thought today where I don't I
struggle with well.

Speaker 1 (01:57:03):
But we wrote but the stuff that lasts is the
stuff that's super special and genius. Right, So it's not
like everyone was walking around talking about philosophy and like
anti caatheric stuff, right, there's also people like barfing and
yah yeah, stupid stuff and and and unethical stuff and

(01:57:23):
all that. So like there's that, but also also the
first step in a revolution is a regression. Right, Oh,
there's a technology revolution. Okay, now, how are we going
to mess this up? You know, it's like human nature
gets unleashed on whatever whatever comes, and so we all
of our worst natures come out, and then we sort

(01:57:44):
of look at what we're doing. It takes like a decade.
It takes people to grow up and look at their
kids and say, wait, I don't want my kids to
have this experience. And then we go, okay, let's try
to fix that. Then we'll do something else that is stupid,
and then we'll try to fix that. So it's two
steps forward one stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:57:58):
I know, sometimes I just design to the thought of
maybe humans just enjoy farting on themselves. Maybe that's that's
just it.

Speaker 1 (01:58:06):
Have you seen this sort of enjoyable?

Speaker 2 (01:58:08):
I mean, right right, have you seen there's a you
probably haven't seen it, but there's a great Russian movie
called It's Hard to Be a God, all right, And
I'm just going to encapsulate this. In like thirty seconds.
We discover a planet it's got life on it, and

(01:58:29):
we send out it's Russian, it's subtitleds Black and White.
It's amazing, and we send out a ship with our
best scientists because we find that this planet is in
the dark ages, literally like our dark ages that we
went through, castles, things, no electricity kind of thing, right,

(01:58:51):
So we're going to send out a team of scientists
and teachers and give them a jump start. All right, Okay,
so we land and they don't want it, of course
not they don't. They're they're literally throwing poop at each
other and laughing about it. And they enjoyed being stupid.

(01:59:17):
They didn't want to progress, and hence the title of
the movie, It's hard to be a god because the
leader of this ship of intellectuals from Earth is trying
his best. Man, just trying his best Trust me, you'll
enjoy that, right, And they wanted nothing to do with it,

(01:59:38):
and that was the struggle. And so I look at
watch the movie. You'll love it. It's great.

Speaker 1 (01:59:43):
It sounds like idiocracy a little bit, but I sort
of it reminds.

Speaker 2 (01:59:46):
Me of idiocrasies. A documentary, by the way, the might.

Speaker 1 (01:59:53):
Be of Three Eye Outlis like, I wonder about three
Eye outlasts I commet, and I wonder if you know
sort of what people's fantasies are about it and what
the reality is and do we actually want back to
your earlier question, do we actually want contact or do
we just want to fantasize about what we would do?
And I think that's that's all coming to before. As

(02:00:16):
we sort of face these mysterious questions, it's, oh, do
we have time for me to tell you what a
non speaker recently?

Speaker 3 (02:00:23):
You do?

Speaker 2 (02:00:24):
You do whatever you want? So you know what I
want you to come back? I want to do an
entire show on time in the Oh yeah, okay, all right,
so let's pencil that in. Okay, go ahead.

Speaker 1 (02:00:39):
Oh, recently, I was just playing around with in a
non rigorous study sort of playground with a non speaker,
So I just asked, well, I wasn't there. I asked
if the teacher could just form the intention without saying
the words, because this works pretty well with speakers who

(02:01:00):
are telepathic or who seemed to be a telepathic She
formed the attention that the non speaker would connect with
me telepathically even though the non speaker never met me,
because this also a thing that works, and sort of
describe what I was thinking about. So she did that.

(02:01:21):
She formed the attention. Then she just asked the non
speaker when he came for his class, you know, hey,
do you want to check in about anything? And he
started talking about me and what I was thinking about,
and he described the owl that I was watching a
video about a woman describing an owl flying over. He
talked about the owl, he talked about three eye at

(02:01:42):
us the commet, and I had in the last twenty
four hours been super for some reason before that, not
at all, but super obsessed with three eye Atlas. This
was just yesterday, and so he pointed that out. He said,
you know about the three eye at lists And she
didn't know. And the teacher didn't know what three eye
at liss was. So she looked it up and said, wait,

(02:02:02):
is this comment? So she said, well, what is what
do you what do you? What do you know about
three ilists? And here's what he says. It's a sentient comment,
which gave me chills because it's not what some people
are saying. It's just a comment. It's just unusual, and
other people are saying it's a craft. But it never
occurred to me that it was a sentient comment. So

(02:02:27):
I just thought that was really fascinating.

Speaker 2 (02:02:29):
Man, I'm going to be in bed in the dark tonight. Comment.

Speaker 1 (02:02:34):
Yeah, what what does that even mean? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:02:37):
Right, that's amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:02:41):
I don't know what to say about that. Thought that
was a fascinating idea.

Speaker 2 (02:02:46):
Thank you so much. Another great conversation, the absolute best.
I do want to do a show on Time in
the Brain and I would love that. We'll have Michelle
set that up. But where can everybody follow your work?

Speaker 1 (02:02:58):
I actually recently finally decided to have a website. It's
called Juliamostridge dot com. It's also called the Inspiracy dot
Love because I couldn't stand for it also to have
that cool name. It's like conspiracy, except inspired inside inspiracy.
But that's the best, the best way to follow it.
All my links are there. My new book is there,
so Juliamosbridge dot com or The Inspiracy dot Love. And

(02:03:22):
the other place to go to my nonprofit is Love
and Time dot org.

Speaker 2 (02:03:28):
There you go. Thank you so much, Julia, behavi and
be well, and I look forward to our next conversation. Seriously,
I'm here to learn and to continue my journey and
you're a big part of that. Just thank you so much,
and thank you for your contributions not only to our
community but to the rest of the world. It's very important.

Speaker 1 (02:03:45):
Thank you so much, and thanks for talking with me
about liberty goal.

Speaker 2 (02:03:50):
Hey, it'll never happen on any other show. I promise
you that, Julia. Thank you so much, enjoy your evening,
take care, good night. The absolute best, Julia my s
Bridge everybody. The links are below for Julia, and do
check out the new book and ol of our very
very important work. And with that, at this stage, you

(02:04:11):
know what I'm about to say. Today is my Friday,
it is your Thursday. So I'm going to go off
and enjoy the rain and enjoy the rest of the weekend.
I do want to mention everybody really quick earlier today
I normally do three shows on Thursday. I got a
call from my dentist this morning that the new stuff

(02:04:33):
had arrived and they needed to do an install of
certain parts. And I tried to put that off and
try to delay. They wanted to get it done. Nothing
could be booked out for the next week or two.
I didn't have a choice, so I had to cancel
everything today to go and get the installation of a
new oil filter and some other stuff. So anyway, that's

(02:04:55):
what happened earlier today, And just in case you were concerned,
I will see everybody right back here on Monday. Enjoy
your weekend. But for now, thank you, Julia. But for
now all I've got is go Beckley Teppye. Fade to
Black is produced by Hilton J. Palm, Renee Newman and

(02:05:17):
Michelle Free. Special thanks to Bill John Dex, Jessica Dennis
and Kevin Webmaster is Drew the Geek. Music by Doug
Albridge intro Spaceboy. Aide to Black is produced by kjc
R for the Game Changer Network. This broadcast is owned

(02:05:39):
and copyrighted twenty twenty four by Fade to Black and
the Game Changer Network, Inc. It cannot be rebroadcast, downloaded, copied,
or used anywhere in the known universe without written permission
from Fade to Black or the Game Changer Network. I'm
your host, Jimmy Church, Go Beckley, Tappy